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NTP Sues Palm, Alleging Patent Violation
mikesd81 writes "The Seattle Time reports that NTP is now going after Palm for patent infringement on technology used in their devices. The suit asks the court to bar Palm from continuing to infringe on NTP's patents and seeks monetary damages for the alleged past infringements. At issues are eleven patents, dating from 1995 to 2001, according to the lawsuit. Five of the patents were part of NTP's lawsuit against RIM. The Palm complaint also centers on products, services and systems that integrate e-mail systems with wireless communications, including the Treo, Palm VII, Palm i700 and Tungsten products." You may recall NTP from the just-finished Blackberry case. Good to know they're staying busy.
.... you have to make money somehow. Seems NTP's choice is to extort money using the court system.
Just as I thought... NTP is an evilcompany (tm) that wants to hurt me personally.
Although I have two palms (and two hands, two arms, etc), I don't like the fact that the Network Time Protocol has suddenly gone through the Intarweb tubes to the lawyers and is taking legal action against parts of my body.
What's next? HTTP suing my big toe? Telnet suing my liver? When will it all end?!? Ohh the humanity...
TDz.
When you pay a blackmailer to leave you alone, even if they do, you've paid them to stay alive long enough to bother someone else.
And when the cops won't stop them, they're unstoppable.
--
make install -not war
What products does NTP make? I was thinking of performing a boycott of what seems to be an overly-litigious company, but can't find any targets.
The even ones? How many is that?
I would never have guessed this of them... Let's face it. NTP is a patent troll. They produce nothing, they have no assets (well except for the money they extort). Why would anybody be suprised about this? Until these bogus patents run their course they will continue to extort more money. The question you have to ask of yourself is this... If you were in the same position and could get lots of money the same way... wouldn't you be doing the same thing? They are not breaking any laws.
Dear NTP:
Please eat excrement and die.
"The Palm complaint also centers on products, services and systems that integrate e-mail systems with wireless communications, including the Treo, Palm VII, Palm i700 and Tungsten products." How is that even possible? Owning a patent for email-via-wireless? Unless I'm mistaken, that's been done since the beginning of wireless.
Not So Random
Regulation is good.
Global warming is a cube.
The Treo 700w doesn't even use any palm applications to receive mail wirelessly. It uses Microsoft's OS and mail servers in order to push email out.... I love how NTP isn't going after Microsoft...must be being used as a front company for them.
-merlyn
I would wish everyone that worked for this company would burn in hell. Well, here is hoping for a painful death for all of them anyhow.
What pisses me off is that Palm isn't that big of a company nor is it the healthiest. If they weren't lucky enough to get Handspring, which gave them a big heads up on the upcoming smartphone market, they might have been crushed by now by the declining PDA market and Microsoft. NTP is just grabbing at every straw it can for money. Why don't they try sueing MS for doing email over wireless? Probably because MS has enough money to slap them back with a legal team worth more than RIM's settlement itself.
The NTP lawsuit claims that certain Palm products infringe seven NTP patents. All seven of the patents asserted are being re-examined by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) and have been rejected by the re-examiners as invalid. Palm also noted that the NTP patents disclose a pager-based email service that has nothing in common with the mobile-computing devices invented by Palm. Palm has been in occasional contact with NTP concerning a license to these patents. When Palm last communicated with NTP many months ago, however, each of the patents already was the subject of re-examination proceedings by the PTO. Palm is disappointed that, after many months of silence and repeated rejections of NTP's claims by the PTO, NTP has chosen to sue on patents of doubtful validity. Palm respects legitimate intellectual property rights, but will defend itself vigorously against the attempted misuse of the patent and judicial systems to extract monetary value for rights to patents that may ultimately have no value at all.
Yes, it did work the first time and I don't see how anyone could be surprised by this. According to the article, NTP contacted 3Com (Palm's parent company) the same time they contacted RIM. Basically, NTP "annexed the Sudetenland" and RIM appeased them, thus setting a precedent. We all know how well appeasement works to deter aggression now, don't we?
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
Well, another example that the world is reaching new extremes, and US is (usually) the first place for any extreme to occur. SO now it's perfectly normal to make money doing nothing, more: using the system that should provide the protection to the inventors to further encourage the development of new stuff.
Sometimes I really believe that self-destruction (or more often, self-mutilation) is something that people cannot live without.
I dont think they can as microsoft's webservers and e-mail applications are from the "old wired web" NTP is talking about the new, hip, totally different wireless internet. That is a great point though because if that got out everyone would be like "hey, wait.. its the same damn thing with an invisible cord! Fuck NTP!!"
Damn cats.
I hope the judge doesn't give them the time of day!
NTP just thought the time seemed right.
A marriage is always made up of two people who are prepared to swear that only the other one snores.
I was reading an editorial in a trade magazine at work a few months ago on the RIM patent case with NTP and where things would go now that RIM had settled. The article suggested that NTP's next target would be Palm and then went on to explain their rationale and that NTP had stirred the pot perhaps a bit too much as many of their patents were up for re-examination.
I hope for once that NTP gets their ass handed to them when they have no patents left to assert in court, but that's wishful thinking. The Slashdot legal delusion field has me hoping that Palm can counter sue for tortious interference or whatever the legal term is.
If memory serves correctly, NTP sued RIM because of the technology they used to push email violated one of their patents. Palm--to my knowledge--doesn't have technology to push email to their devices. That's where companies like http://www.good.com/, and (at the time) http://www.jpmobile.com/ came in. (3rd party addons to add push email to palm devices)
It seems NTP should go after Good--and now Microsoft (For their Exchange/AS Push) if anyone, but not palm.
Then again, what I do know, IANAL.
So typically editors, edit submissions to some degree and make sure some basic guidelines are followed. One of those is making sure acronyms are defined the first time they are used, especially if it is a really common acronym like Network Time Protocol, but you're using it to mean something else. For more information please read the Chicago Manual of Style.
make those ambulance chasing personal injury lawyers look good. They do not manufacture, implement, design, or even simply "dream up" anything to do with technology. They simply acquire patents (which are bogus in my humble opinion) and sue based on someone else's hard work.
If Dante were still around, he would have a special place in hell for these bastards.
Repant. Thy end is sheer.
Dear NTP,
Palm is a company dedicated to innovation and a fair marketplace, and as such would like to offer a conditional out of court settlement in this matter.
The conditions of the offer are as follows:
1. NTP issues a public statement withdrawing it's claims of patent infringement against Palm.
2. Agree that this settlement will indemnify Palm, it's directors and any third-parties licensing our technology against future claims.
3. This agreement by bound by the laws of the State of California.
4. This agreement remains strictly confidential. Any breach of the secrecy of this agreement will result in litigation by jury trial in the above-noted jurisdiction.
5. Payment of past licensing fees to NTP will be in full and must be requisitioned from our affiliate bank in the "Triangle of Death" of the democratic country of Iraq.
6. Funds will only be relinquished to a member of your Board of Directors or Senior Management Team.
7. Our bankers are heavily armed, but we assure you this is for YOUR protection.
I hope you find this agreement to your satisfaction and this matter can be put to rest.
Sincerely,
Palm
A US Patent Troll attempting to sue a US company in US courts - Not A Chance. These priviledges are reserved for the "benefit" of non-US entities to enhance the wealth of American corporations in a "fair" market system.
If you don't manufacture anything... ... then you should be barred from making patent-based lawsuits.
The whole basis of the social contract of patents is to protect your enterprise during manufacturing. If you are not using the patent to manufacture anything, then you are just a parasite working against the very concept of patents and against the community.
But then, everyone knows that lawyers are just parasites anyway. I recommend DDT.
I can't believe that the Network time Protocol would sue anyone.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
As per usual, the US patent system is doing a great job of stifling even the most minor innovation.
Email over a non-copper transport. Wow. What an intelligent patent. Using wireless IP networks as they were designed.
My contempt and disgust for what passes for "justice" south of the border knows no bounds. Justice is dead -- long live the court leeches!
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
No surprises here. As long as there's no penalty for using the patent and legal system as an ATM, companies like NTP will continue to do so. Even as their patents are being found to be invalid, they continue to sue. Oh well, I guess allegedly evil companies and allegedly evil lawyers have to keep busy.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
I see the solution to the US patent roulette as simple: Don't establish a US office. Force all customers to contract with a head office in a nation that has SANE laws that aren't sold to the highest bidder. Force them to deal with fair courts, and cut them off if they don't abide by agreements.
If necessary, establish offices in a jurisdiction like Germany where innovation and privacy trump companies that have no products.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
*** News Flash *** News Flash *** News Flash ***
SCO acquired by NTP.
That should keep the courts busy for the next millenium.
Actually, Gulf War 1 is a more accurate analogy than Gulf War 2. However, please note that in both wars Iraq's army was annihilated in weeks.
The current situation is the result of long held animosities in Iraq, interference by Iraq's neighbors, and a lack of planning and good judgement on the part of the soon to be former Secretary of Defense. Winning a war is one thing; nation building is quite another.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
It's not "it's", its proper spelling is "its".
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld
Basically, they're like the old Danish Vikings. To quote Kipling "That if once you have paid him the Danegeld, You never get rid of the Dane." Once people started paying them off, they'd leave for a while, then come back. Historians have found more Anglo-Saxon pence of this period in Denmark than in England.
This is just the modern day version, and they're not the only company doing it. We've just traded in swords and shields for lawyers with pens.
Personally, I think we'd be a lot better off if we just gave the lawyers and litigants swords.
You may recall NTP from the just-finished Blackberry case. Good to know they're staying busy.
You mean, as in filing baseless lawsuits over patents that have been rejected by the USPTO? You're glad that blatant extortion is going on? It seems to me like fertile grounds for a countersuit on extortion grounds if nothing else
i am a soviet space shuttle
Too bad it's illegal to kill extortionists.
RIM is a Canadian company, and that didn't work for them.
Even if your offices are out of the US, US courts still have the jurisdiction to shut down your operations in the US.
:(){
It's the new American Way!
1) Patent something
2) Sit on it until someone does something similar
3) Sue!
4) Profit!
Now we know what goes in place of "???"
Yes, this is a repeat! That's actually one of the worst parts -- that this stuff keeps on happening!
Well, there's always the "letter to your congressman" angle, and the "letter to the editor" angle, and the "give money to help Palm hire better lawyers" angle, and the "march in front of NTP's headquarters with a placard" angle, and the "get a job reviewing patents" angle. If you put your mind to it, I'm sure you could come up with some actions to address the situation.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Since a judge threw out most of NTPs claims against RIM, NTP does not have much to stand on this time around. I think that NTP needs to be put back in its place. How? Heres a hint: RIM and Palm partnership, simultaneous countersuits, and hilarity!
Actually, Gulf War 1 is a more accurate analogy than Gulf War 2.
How so? because the first one is inconclusive and doesn't show the no-appeasement argument wrong?
However, please note that in both wars Iraq's army was annihilated in weeks.
Which was never in doubt, but it does not win you a war. Vietnam already clearly showed this, you can win almost every conventional battle, and yet lose the war.
The current situation is the result of long held animosities in Iraq, interference by Iraq's neighbors, and a lack of planning and good judgement on the part of the soon to be former Secretary of Defense. Winning a war is one thing; nation building is quite another.
Not having thought about what to do after overthrowing Saddam is a big part of this, and that that would go wrong was clear from the start. You are not very likely to gain control over a country that uses its substantial (in size, not in actual fighting power) army for internal control with the kind of small invasion force the USA came up with. Try with at least 800k men and a decent plan.
A decent plan will at the very least provide for:
- dealing with the enemy army so they don't turn into a decentralized fighting force.
- provide security to the population
- provide basic needs (food, water, shelter) to the population
- organize the local population into managable groups not linked to specific political, etnic or religious background
People blame Rumsfeld for this, and since he was in charge of the operation, that seems correct, but honestly, everyone in the current administration who supported this and overlooked that there simply was no workable plan for the adtermatch is equally guilty of neglect here.
...what grounds do they have for suing? I'm absolutely baffled. I mean, I know the US patent system is more geborken than the Swedish Chef himself, but how can NTP sue if the patents they're basing the case on have already been invalidated? Are things really that screwed up?
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."