The Zune Cometh

Well, except for those hiding under a mountain of used iPod batteries, it's fairly well known that the Zune iPod-wannabe killer is coming out Monday/Tuesday. There's a piece in the NYTimes about counting on the wireless part of the Zune to take down the iPod as well as some interviews with people involved in the creation. But OTOH, RoughlyDrafted (which has had a series of pieces about the Zune) points out some issues with the DRM systems, and forecasts a number of issues — and also calls out what they called a "Digg Fraud Campaign". But soon — the market decides.

Comments

The War of the News & Products

[eldavojohn]

... and also calls out what they called a "Digg Fraud Campaign".

I also heard from somewhere that they're flanking that with something called a "Slashvertisement."

You know what's funny? It's easy to say bad things about a large company because they have marketing departments & businessmen running them. Oftentimes, marketing and business involve areas of questionable ethics & integrity--or the sheer will to sell your product at any cost since that's your paycheck. Is a "Digg fraud Campaign" really that surprising?

Microsoft is doing horrible things here ... fraud on Digg, tsk tsk! But every time I try to watch TV, I have two men standing in front of me--one a suave young man and the other an older idiot who's often being upstaged or somehow better than the younger man. The young man is Apple of course. What the hell that has to do with my computing needs, I'll never know. Do I call that a "National TV Fraud Campaign?" No, I call that marketing and advertising--some of the worst forms of human behavior (both the stimulus and the response disgust me).

You know what is also funny? It's easy to say good things about a large company because they have a lot of resources and can accomplish a lot for the consumer. Stand back, I'm about to say something that will ensure this post hits rock bottom on the karma: Microsoft has done good things for computing. And you know what? So has Apple. I've used products of both of them to varying levels of success in my past--and that in and of itself is something.

Now consider the fact that both Microsoft & Apple are very large companies. This Zune/iPod crap is always going to happen and they love that it's in the public's eye.

Re:The War of the News & Products

[TomHandy]

There's a pretty big flaw in this comparison though. The TV ads you talked about do not have their origins hidden, etc. They are clearly television ads, it is clearly identified who paid for the ad (Apple), and anyone who sees it can clearly tell it is a standard paid for ad.

Now, stuff like this digg thing, is pretty different. Setting up anonymous blogs, etc. to give the impression that the story is independent and not coming from the company paying for it and doing the marketing is something different. Same thing with slashvertisements.

Not necessarily saying anything is better or worse, but I think there's a pretty big distinction to be made between things that are clearly identified as advertisements, and things that are not clearly identified as advertisements in order to give the impression that they are something else.

Re:The War of the News & Products

[aitikin]

You know what is also funny? It's easy to say good things about a large company because they have a lot of resources and can accomplish a lot for the consumer. Stand back, I'm about to say something that will ensure this post hits rock bottom on the karma: Microsoft has done good things for computing. And you know what? So has Apple. I've used products of both of them to varying levels of success in my past--and that in and of itself is something.

This goes back to simple capitalistic theory, with competition being good for the consumer. Two major corporations in control of the vast majority of the market, fighting to make the better product.

This is an unusual viewpoint here on slashdot, but honestly, so long as they stick to bettering each other through competition rather than belittling each other, I'm all for it. When one company decides to launch whole hearted smear campaigns rather than improve their product, or, even worse, decides it's more cost effective to buy out the competition, that's where I get worried, and in honesty, most major corporations have done one, if not both.

Re:The War of the News & Products

[Hijacked Public]

Advertising is, and pretty much always has been, about making a person feel some particular way rather than explaining the particulars of a product.

Emotions sell things because at the end of the day none of us actually need any of this shit, so keeping cold hard logic at bay is necessary for selling the vast majority of things. I do some product photography and I've sat through hundreds of sessions with ad people picking out which photos to use in a campaign and there is always a lot of talk about how this one particular shot 'makes me feel'. I hear more of that in ad sessions than at art gallery openings.

"Choosy mothers choose Jif" doesn't even explain what product the Jif Corporation is trying to sell, and isn't backed up by any evidence, but voice it over a shot of some kid kicking a ball to his dog in his perfect little backyard and it sells because it implies that if you don't serve your child Jif Corporation products his little body will rot away and he won't be able to kick balls to dogs in your backyard. Or at least that was how it made me feel.

Re:The War of the News & Products

[UnknowingFool]

Remember the Switch campaign from Apple? Apple got real people to get on TV to tell why they switched to Macs. The campaign worked because it was from genuine people. Microsoft tried to do the exact same thing but it backfired terribly when someone noticed that the picture of the first Microsoft "switcher" was a stock photo. Was there a real person that switched? There may have been but the method of how MS did it was so underhanded that it immediated discredited their whole campaign.

Re:The War of the News & Products

[tkrotchko]

You're saying Apple is horrible for having funny commercials? Or am I misunderstanding your position here?

I mean, you don't need to be upset. Microsoft is good at spreadsheets, Apple has admitted that. Why can't Microsoft say something nice Apple?

Re:The War of the News & Products

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

This goes back to simple capitalistic theory, with competition being good for the consumer. Two major corporations in control of the vast majority of the market, fighting to make the better product. This is an unusual viewpoint here on slashdot, but honestly, so long as they stick to bettering each other through competition rather than belittling each other, I'm all for it.

That would be nice, but I wouldn't count on it. Microsoft does not believe in playing fair. They have already tied their player to the Windows OS monopoly via a proprietary format and the WMP software. So while two companies competing for the market is great, don't count on it to last. Once MS manages a "good enough" player it will take the market regardless of whether or not it is innovative or even as good as the iPod. Apple's dominance may hold them off for a while, but not forever. And with the fall of the iPod, digital music and DRM will be dominated by Microsoft for the foreseeable future.

When one company decides to launch whole hearted smear campaigns rather than improve their product, or, even worse, decides it's more cost effective to buy out the competition, that's where I get worried, and in honesty, most major corporations have done one, if not both.

Neither of these bother me so long as the advertising is not factually incorrect, but portrayed as such. The free market and our society can and does deal with misleading ads and buyouts. What it can't deal with is antitrust abuse when the justice department looks the other way.

Re:The War of the News & Products

[Golias]

Alright, since theres nothing about those ads that are misleading, please explain to me: - Why they mention that PC's get viruses and Mac's don't (ever)

Because PC's do, and Macs don't.

I've been running an entire network of unsecured Macs 24/7 connected to my DSL connection for years with no anti-virus software. Not one infection.

On the other hand, in a one-year span, I had a RedHat Linux box and a Windows game machine that were pwned once each.

Why they claim Mac's are "just better" at doing graphics work

Ask somebody in the graphic printing business. I don't really know everything about it, but the professionals swear by Macs.

Why they claim that your average PC lock up every few seconds and needs rebooting

An amusing exaggeration. It wouldn't have gotten so many laughs if it wasn't rather close to the experience many people had with Windows.

If you honestly believe any of these things then you are behind your reality distortion field.

Call it what you like, but working virus-free on computers that don't get in the way of my creative work and run more reliably than Windows is a nice "field" to be standing in. You should try it sometime.

Re:The War of the News & Products

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Well, while the idea of the ipod going the way of netscape scares me, I really hope that the X-Box has taught us that Microsoft is not as sucessful at the "embrace, extend, extinguish" game as it once was.

It usually takes Microsoft about three versions to go from half-assed to usable and take the market. The monopoly abuse with the Xbox and Windows is also a bit weaker than other markets they have tried to take over and their competitors larger and smarter. MS's plan is to make ActiveX all there is and make it easy to build a game with tools they provide that runs on Windows and the Xbox with no fuss. Ideally, they'd also like it to run on other consoles as well, but they may not be able to manage that. This means they get more games from independent developers and they've already bought a pile of them in order to "set the standard" for the industry.

I'm not sure this could be described as MS being worse at embracing markets, rather they are about the same as ever, but are tackling larger targets and are still early in the process.

batteries

[geoffspear]

Well, except for those hiding under a mountain of used iPod batteries

I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on a Zune, with its new infinitely-rechargable battery technology. It uses a nickel-adamantium alloy, right?

Re:batteries

[rlp]

Zune, with its new infinitely-rechargable battery technology. It uses a nickel-adamantium alloy, right?

That's absolutely correct. They're manufactured by Sony.

Not a big intro

[sbraab]

I noticed while looking through the newspaper adds this weekend that there isn't much of a marketing hype around Zune. It was buried in all the adds and the biggest selling point I found was that you could put your own picture on on the background. It was also interesting to see that the Microsoft name was no where to be found. I was really expecting to see front pages ads, WIRELESS in big letters and Microsofts weight behind it all. It was also interesting to note that the accessory packs advertised with it were $80-$100, I guess they are trying to beat apple at the sucker game. All in all I didn't see anything to win over the mass market.

Re:Not a big intro

[RAMMS EIN]

``It was also interesting to see that the Microsoft name was no where to be found.''

Perhaps they figured that saying it's from Microsoft is not a way to promote your product to their target audience.

Re:Not a big intro

[Archibald Buttle]

Microsoft also did not push themselves with the original XBox launch. There was no Microsoft branding to be found there - their logo isn't on the console. They are trying to create a new brand with Zune, not making use of their existing brand, much as they did with the XBox.

Maybe they feel it unwise to make use of the Microsoft brand for these products.

Re:Not a big intro

[roseblood]

"Zune(tm) from Microsoft, the people who brought you EDLIN."

No brainer there.

Re:Not a big intro

[santos_douglas]

Ran across a Zune endcap display at a local Target. Backlight was set to immediately turn off making it impossible to use until I switched it to stay on permanently. After playing with it a while, found the UI acceptable if a bit unintuitive. Like others have noted, I was shocked at the bulk of the thing. No prices listed, I guess because it wasn't actually available for sale yet, which also seemed a bit odd. The feature list, which presumably is meant to entice buyers, read more like a Top 10 Lift of reasons not to buy. A 30 GB portable hard drive that you can't use as a portable hard drive...WTF?! I've never seen such a disaster waiting to happen.

Re:Not a big intro

[Man Eating Duck]

'I am serious, and don't call me Shirley!'

Sorry :)

Re:Not a big intro

[santos_douglas]

That's a fair point, its not really a "must have" feature on a music player. My thinking on it though, is that everything about the player involves decisions MS actively made to exclude or restrict features, where one would think they would want to give the consumer as many features and content as possible. Ultimately it is a portable hard drive, that also happens to have the ability to play music and videos. The act of taking away its ability to store any file you want is a conscious act of exclusion to the detriment of the consumer. It doesn't cost anything to allow open storage, if anything it costs more to exclude the function. For every feature it has, there's a little footnote about how that feature is restricted. Its got wifi, thats great, they trumped the iPod, how innovative of MS...but wait, it doesn't actually do anything any consumer would actually want wifi for.

Related News

[Apocalypse111]

In related news, if you Google the phrase "wiki zune" you get the following results. Look at the second listed item.

Re:Related News

[entrylevel]

Pretty neat how Data fictionally spent about 50 years trying to develop a sense of humor without success, yet in the real world, Google has developed a highly evolved sense of humor almost entirely by accident in less time than a human learns about fart jokes.

Re:Related News

[NatasRevol]

Hey, my 5 yr old thinks fart jokes are very funny.

Intentional or error?

[gnasher719]

The submitter calls the Zune an "iPod wannabe-killer".

That would make it something that kills iPod wannabe's, like Creative or Rio or Sandisk players. I wonder whether that is what the submitter meant, or did he mean "wannabe iPod" or "wannabe iPod-killer"? And I wonder what Microsoft's goal is?

Re:Intentional or error?

[peragrin]

considering that the Zune is incompatible with other playsforsure devices including the ipod killers of old(creative, real, napster, etc) The zune is the Ipod wannabe killer.

because when it comes right down to it, all those other services will die becaue they partnered with MSFT, and then MSFT stabbed them all in the back.

or maybe it was a chair in the board room.

Re:Intentional or error?

[Conanymous Award]

"The submitter calls the Zune an "iPod wannabe-killer".

That would make it something that kills iPod wannabe's, like Creative or Rio or Sandisk players."

Maybe it's just my pidgin English, but I'd see "iPod-wannabe killer" as something that kills iPod wannabes. Those hyphens...

But what about the battery?

[Channard]

There's no still reason on whether or not the battery is removable. My number one reason for buying an MP3 player other than an iPod was that the iPod's battery can't easily be removed - in fact, the Nano's is even soldered in, so levering it out isn't an option.

Re:But what about the battery?

[sunderland56]

You're confusing removable with user removable. The iPod's battery is certainly removable; Apple stores will swap in a new battery for a fixed price.

There are several advantages of a soldered-in battery. The iPod can be made smaller (no need for a battery holder) and lighter. The case can be better sealed. And there is no chance that a bump to the iPod will interrupt playback by interrupting battery voltage - important to those that wear the iPod while exercising.

Basically, a better user experience for three years, with slightly higher battery replacement cost at the end.

Re:But what about the battery?

[bri2000]

And yet none of those reasons have ever been seen as a serious enough design challenge to prevent the rechargable, custom batteries in cell phones, digital cameras and other brands of personal stereo being user replacable.

Re:But what about the battery?

[planetmn]

How long do they last while functioning? Talk time is usually a few hours.

Talk about not comparing apples to apples. A cellular phone, while talking uses a radio to transmit and receive signals, the iPod does no such thing.

If you believe the non-user removable battery was done for any other reason than:
1) design - no seams in the plastic
2) cost - we want the money for either a new iPod after three years, or at least pay us to replace the battery
you are being naive.

Designs are about compromise.

Yes, but the compromise may not be for the best "design" it may be for the benefit of the company.

-dave

Re:But what about the battery?

[Grishnakh]

This is silly. iPod batteries are replaceable. Here's a that sells batteries from the highly-rated Newer Technology. The high-capacity replacement for the iPod Photo is only $30. They aren't soldered in, either; they have a simple connector on them. All you have to do is open the case using the supplied plastic tool and follow the included instructions.

For something that only needs to be done every couple years or so, this really isn't a big deal.

About the 'Digg fraud' campaign...

[Assmasher]

...the entire article is supposition and not even logically thought out supposition.

See the paragraph below:

"For example, Murphey has been working to create rumors of an imminently available new "video iPod," apparently in an effort to try to get iPod buyers to hold off on their purchases and perhaps consider the Zune."

That doesn't make any sense at all. If Murphey is trying to get people more interested in Zune and wanting to buy a Zune, why would he suggest that a new iPod is coming out. This would actually make people considering a Zune potentially abort that purchase waiting for Apple to produce an iPod with WiFi or something similar.

Much of the accusation in that 'article' is logically weak like this one and actually supplies nothing but pure speculation.

That crap aside, nobody is going to kill the iPod, it's a behemoth now.

Re:About the 'Digg fraud' campaign...

[bunions]

Like IBM.

OOooo, I hate that

[ackthpt]

Dislocating my jaw when I yawn like that.

RoughlyDrafted and Digg

[SewersOfRivendell]

RoughlyDrafted [...] also calls out what they called a "Digg Fraud Campaign"

Pot, meet kettle.

Re:obligatory post ...

[Anonymous Coward]

...that only computes for three days.

I'm reminded of some famous last words....

[B11]

Clunkier than an ipod. Crippled wifi. Lame.

Re:obligatory post ...

[hcdejong]

That's right, because in Soviet Russia, cliché posts mod YOU!

I've noticed that this round of MS products...

[bealzabobs_youruncle]

has been very heavily promoted via astro-turfing. Every BETA and RC release of Vista was followed within an hour or so with 2-4 articles explaining why it was great and apologizing for it's lack of features. Some were from legit news outlets, others fan sites and blogs, but the quantity and timing felt forced to me. I see the same thing with Zune; I keep seeing articles telling me it's an iPod killer but then explaining why it's deficiencies are not only acceptable, but a benefit to me as a consumer??

I think this will work with the OS as poeple don't really try to understand how their PC works, but I question this dethroning the simplicity and popularity of the iPod and iTMS combo.

I will also point out the obvious that MS has seeded quite a few landscapers here on Slashdot lately, but I'm sure one will come along soon and prove my point...

Kill the iPod?

[mmzplanet]

Microsoft is not even challenging the most popular of the iPod lineup. Seeing that the iPod nano is the most popular of the iPod lineup (even without video).... how exactly is the Zune an iPod killer? The Zune is not a killer to anything until MS has a device to challenge the tiny iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle. One device is not going to "kill" iPod, or even hurt it.

XOBX HUEG

[CharAznable]

Checked one out yesterday, the 60's Soviet looking shit-brown one. The screen is gorgeous but the unit itself is OMG XOBX HUEG. What's with Microsoft and huge hardware? It is too big and bulky to be carried in my pocket.

Re:XOBX HUEG

[trudyscousin]

"What's with Microsoft and huge hardware?"

They're obviously compensating for something.

amazing!

[Kenshin]

simply rotate the device 90 degrees to watch video.

HOLY SHIT! I never thought of that!

Can you please teach me how to rotate it 90 degrees? Do you think it will also work for all those photos I have, that are on a 90 degree angle for some reason, too? They look so silly on the wall with everything sideways like that...

Buying one

[IflyRC]

I'm an early adopter and usually purchase many products like this that come out. I'm really looking forward to it.

Re:Buying one

[IflyRC]

Funny? I'm serious.

Re:Buying one

[IflyRC]

Gah!

Etu Brute?

Comparisons and caveats

[UnknowingFool]

The problem with the Zune is unfortunately that it will be compared to the iPod. On it's own the Zune seems to be a decent enough MP3 player. To differentiate from the iPod, MS has put in some interesting features. To me though, these features all have caveats. For example, MS is marketing that the Zune has wireless. Technically true but it's not wireless like you'd expect in a laptop. Really, it's limited wireless sharing with another Zune. It plays video but you can't really buy any from Zune marketplace right now. It's got a bigger screen but has the same resolution as an iPod so your pictures are larger because the pixels are larger. It's got the same capacity as the 30GB iPod but you can't use it as a portable harddrive. And so on. I'm not buying it because there are no killer features that I really want. I feel sorry for those who don't research these things and end up with a player that doesn't do what they thought it would do.

Top Ten Things to do with an unwanted ZUNE

[djupedal]

Once the public gets wind of another iPod killer missing the mark, those brave 'early adopters' that sprang for a Zune will be looking to find a use for the darn things, since no one will want to take it off their hands. In that spirit, here is a list of the Top Ten things to do with an unwanted Zune...

10. Use it to tell peoples' fortunes down at the pier on weekends. Put it on random play and see what mysticism is invoked when their dead Uncle Bob speaks to them from the other side.
9. Doorstop...
8. Paperweight...
7. Water-saver (brick) for the downstairs toilet.
6. Donate it to the local SPCA as a chew toy and claim a nice tax credit.
5. Run it over with the lawnmower, making sure to video tape the staged incident and go for the big prize on AFHVs' - if you can get it to play something by Jim Morrison during the slaughter, all the better.
4. Grind it up into powder and tiny shavings, mix it with your daily bowl of All Bran and notify Guinness WRs' that you just ate your Zune!
3. Set it to play an endless loop of a load ticking clock. Put it into a plain brown grocery bag, leave it on the steps of your local courthouse and call in a fake bomb scare. Another candidate for AFHVs' :)
2. Scuff the back side, claim you can see Jesus in the markings, build a makeshift loft in the backyard and call the Enquirer.
1. Soak it in lighter fluid and gun powder, set it up at the local firing range and charge $5 bucks a bullet to let your friends see who can turn it into a low-budget, low-orbit msICBM.

Re:Question

[Constantine XVI]

Try this:
Reset your iPod (either action+menu, or play+menu, depends on model)
While resetting, hold action+back, and throw it in disk mode.
Use your favorite disk management tool (Computer Management in Windows, Disk Utility on OSX, and you probably know if you're on Linux), and blast off all partitions on your iPod, then put a new FAT32 partition on it.
Use the iPod utility (or iTunes, if you have iTunes7) to restore the iPod software
If that doesn't work, you're probably screwed.

Zune Specs and what I don't understand

[green pizza]

I overheard an employee talking to some customers about the wonders of the Zune. It's much sleeker, looks better, is thinner, and has a bigger screen... you know, all of the important things.

I keep hearing about how Zune is slimmer, smaller, and has a better screen. But when I look at the specs, the 30 GB iPod seems to be actually a tad smaller and lighter than the Zune. The screen resolution is the same, so Zune just has larger pixels.

Zune:
2.48" W x 4.17" H x 0.65" D. Weight:, 6 oz. Resolution: 240x320

30 GB iPod:
Height: 4.1 inches
Width: 2.4 inches
Depth: 0.43 inch
Weight: 4.8 ounces
Display: 2.5-inch QVGA 320 by 240 pixel resolution

Also, I have heard that the Zune's "wheel" is not a wheel at all. The reviews suggest that the Zune has a regular 4-button "D-pad" menu button arrangement hidden behind that round black wheel-looking thing.

Who is correct here? Have I been reading iPod fanboy BS?

Zune pictures already online

[nieske]

A guy who went to Best Buy and wanted to order a Zune, actually took it home right away and posted his pictures online. He did get an unexplained system error though.

Second two articles not up to par

[Falladir]

The first article is legitimate news but the second two aren't even close. Who goes to the trouble of making that many images just to slam a new product? Slashdot shouldn't be giving press to scrubs like these.

Heh... Zune?

[eno2001]

Coming Zune from Microsoft? In soviet Russia Zune comes on YOU!? Which is better, Zune or sex with a mare? I've got a hot Zune down my pants with pictures of Natalie Portman, naked and petrified? I kid, I kid...

I think that you'll find the market breakdown between Zune and the iPod will fall along the same lines that you see in the PC vs. Mac world. The people who want the "stylish and beautiful" device will still buy iPods. The people who want the utilitarian device with more features than sense, will buy the Zune. The wireless functionality of the Zune is a perfect example. To paraphrase Jobs, who WANT that sort of thing when you can just swap your [insert music player here] with a friend for a few minutes to listen to the songs on each other's players to see if you want to buy the tracks? (Funny how 80s Walkman technology, the 1/8" headphone plug, is perfectly compatible with nearly every music player out there. Don't expect that to last much longer... it keeps the goons from making more money through artifical restrictions.) The ridiculous filesharing that deletes itself thanks to DRM is just another component bound to cause more negative user experiences than positive ones. But, the fact is that Zune will likely break even or tank. I don't see it becoming the defacto standard as iPod has. Hell, I own a Rio Karma (they RULE BTW...) and I can attest to the fact that EVERY digital music player or service you want is made for the iPod. The FM transmitter I bought along with it's cigarette lighter adapter has a funny extra plug on it that is specifically for the iPod and totally useless on my Karma. Again... the problem of not using or establishing any kind of REAL drafted standard.

IF there were an actual standard, then the Zune and the iPod would be able to actually compete on their merits rather than artifically limiting each other. I'd say a reasonable standard would look like this:

1. A standard interface for purchasing/downloading music within the player itself rather than through a PC. This would happen via WiFi or a NIC or even a cell phone data link
2. Standard bluetooth for sending the audio data to a bluetooth headphone, or in-dash blue tooth enabled car stereos. This would eliminate the interference that you experience on the road while other people blast Howard Stern with their Sirius sets
3. A standard hardware interface for a dock that all players would utilize regardless of shape or size
4. Standard power jacks that are multipurpose for car, house or even USB power
5. A standard underlying base OS that could have extras layered on top of it to extend functionality and support for additional features in software and extended hardware features as well
6. Interaction with other bluetooth devices so that you could also use them as data drives, or even personal answering machines for cell phones (screw voice mail...)

Just a few ideas which I'm sure the "elite" here will rip apart. My point is that Zune is not going to be able to easily usurp the lead that Apple has at the moment. The only way they will is if Apple rests on their laurels and doesn't provide the next "high".

Re:You're new here? Ain't ya?

[2nd Post!]

Are you sure you're right? The iPod, 5gb, was released in October of 2001. I do believe your Archos FM Recorder was released in October of 2002, nearly a year later. Apple wasn't the first, but it was a pioneer in several things that the Archos did not pick up on until later:
Size (smaller is better)
Hi speed serial interface(USB2 or Firewire)
Simple user interface (5 buttons instead of Archos' 10)

Your Archos is actually a year younger than the oldest iPod, at my estimation.

The iPod did something that Archos has copied with it's Gmini line... there is no way of avoiding that comparison.

...and it has shitty marketing!

[dr.badass]

If you look at the first run of commercials-- which you will undoubtedly be seeing every time you turn on the TV--you've got to wonder just what the hell Microsoft is thinking.

These ads show people out in public, at parties and concerts, with friends; there's talking, laughing, dancing; a DJ or a band playing music. And somehow you're supposed to make the connection that these are the perfect places to put on your headphones and listen to your own music.

"Wow, I'm glad I paid $20 for a ticket to this concert with all of these people! Now I'm going to listen to my $250 Zune by myself! Welcome to the Social."

No, it makes sense.

[Mr. Underbridge]

That doesn't make any sense at all. If Murphey is trying to get people more interested in Zune and wanting to buy a Zune, why would he suggest that a new iPod is coming out. This would actually make people considering a Zune potentially abort that purchase waiting for Apple to produce an iPod with WiFi or something similar.

Actually, it does make some sense. Imagine you're a weak-minded consumer and you're going to buy an iPod tomorrow, and I'm selling Zunes. Now, if you buy that iPod tomorrow, there's no way you buy a Zune. Of course, I'm going to tell you about this Zune thing, but one day of my evangelism probably won't win you over. Unless I do something drastic, you buy that new iPod tomorrow.

So I bust out the big gun. I start an unfounded rumor that Apple is coming out with a Video iPod next month. You think, there's no way I'm buying a new iPod if there's a new one out next month. See, I just got you to postpone your iPod purchase! This gives me time to convince you that the Zune is great. It gives me time to get the Zune in people's hands, and allows you to *see* the Zune. If my marketing blitz worked, then it'll give you time to maybe think that this old Zune thing isn't so bad after all. The only problem is that you're still pining for that video iPod, and won't touch my Zune.

Next month, you're still holding out for that new Video iPod. By now, even though you're a weak-minded consumer, you've figured out that video iPod was just a rumor. Problem is, you still need a new music player. In the meantime, I've been telling every day you how great the Zune is.

If I've done my job, I've made you more likely to buy a Zune now that you've had a chance to see it and its marketing in action than you were before. With one little rumor, I got you not to buy an iPod at least until I've had a chance to demo my product. There was no chance you bought a Zune before, AND I would have lost you as a consumer for probably 2 years. Now, I at least get a crack at you.

The key here is that there isn't actually a video ipod coming soon, and the slick marketeer I am, I know that. ;)

No Zune For Me

[Grail]

Sure it's got wireless, but it's a huge brick.

My Christmas money is going on a iPod Nano PRODUCT (RED) 8GB model. My 3G iPod is still going strong - sure, battery is stuffed so playtime is now about 2 hours instead of 6, but at least the 40GB iPod still works as a 40GB Firewire/USB hard drive, while the Zune is a huge brick sitting on my desk wasting space while I play my music in iTunes.

The iPod Nano can fit in my shirt pocket, or it can squeeze in behind my mobile phone in the mobile phone pocket on my backpack. The Zune, being a huge brick, would have to take up space in my backpack. Along with my 3G iPod which is still functional after all these years (no battery replacement yet).

So: 3 year old iPod is still doing: calendar, contacts, music, and functions as an external hard drive. Zune would be doing: brick impressions.

Oh... I'm a Mac user by the way, so how am I supposed to load music onto the Zune for when I feel like lugging a huge brick around with me? I don't need to plug myself into a huge brick to compensate for lack of endowment. I'll buy the slim and fashionably coloured iPod Nano PRODUCT (RED) and have Apple send $10 off to help people in Africa survive against AIDS.