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Gates Foundation To Spend All Its Assets

El Lobo writes "The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has said it will spend all its assets within 50 years of both of them dying. The foundation focuses on improving health and economic development globally, and improving education and increasing access to technology. It also focuses on fighting diseases such as HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria. The Seattle-based foundation plans to increase spending to about $3.5 billion a year beginning in 2009 and continuing through the next decade, up from about $1.75 billion this year." The Wall Street Journal (excerpted at the link above) called the foundation's decision "a decisive move in a continuing debate in philanthropy about whether such groups should live on forever."

319 comments

  1. The funds may live forever by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many endowed research programs will this money go to?

    Yes, the foundation will cease, but a good chunk of the funds will remain as permanent endowments for the various causes that the Gates support. The most important difference will be management: Each will be managed by people close to the individual projects.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:The funds may live forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "How many endowed research programs will this money go to?"

      Prick up your ears, boy, start by searching for "well endowed" on AltaVista or Google! You'll come to huge surprises!

    2. Re:The funds may live forever by tak+amalak · · Score: 1

      Someone please mod the parent +1 Hilarious.

      --
      Don't lead me into temptation... I can find it myself.
  2. Stupid by BoomerSooner · · Score: 0, Troll

    Why not setup a trust that just spends the interest on the earnings. That way they can give for generations?

    Bizarre. Where do i get my check?

    1. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Maybe they want to help the most people the can right now rather than making them wait a few decades?

    2. Re:Stupid by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Why not setup a trust that just spends the interest on the earnings.

      Or fund projects that might be profitable as well as beneficial in the long term, but that no other corporation wants to fund because the profits might only show a century later.

      -b.

    3. Re:Stupid by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Something tell me that the guys who run multibillion dollar foundation might've thought of that. My guess is that the principle could do more good in the hands of organizations (especially, IMO, OLPC ;) than sitting in a bank. That is: even more good that the interest the bank pays on it.

      --
      My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    4. Re:Stupid by maxume · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They tend to invest in doing things that will persist for generations; educating one person can change the lives of all of their descendants and so forth, and by spending it near their lives, they make sure that the spending is relevant to what they care about and that no leaches come in and live off the trust.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:Stupid by daeg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not the goal, though, of the foundation. The goal is to invest, but not invest in traditional stock markets. They are investing in human lives and the betterment of mankind as a whole, which is a much stronger investment, where the returns do keep on giving for generations even after the actual money runs dry.

      Also, as the foundation proves that it is working, more and more high-power donations will probably pour in, albeit not as large as Gates'. The plan is based on their current funding level and their expected contributions from the Gates family.

    6. Re:Stupid by BoomerSooner · · Score: 1

      If the goal is to help people wouldn't it make sense to help them in perpetuity instead of just for the next 50 years?

      People will probably need more help going forward, not less. It doesn't concern me. Just my thoughts on the subject.

    7. Re:Stupid by Surt · · Score: 1

      People will probably need more help going forward, not less.

      Unless of course, they fix things permanently, now. Then people can need no help going forward. So instead of requiring people to live in mildly improved misery forever, they can do away with the misery altogether.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    8. Re:Stupid by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If the goal is to help people wouldn't it make sense to help them in perpetuity instead of just for the next 50 years?

      If they invest money toward finding cures for diseases, they are helping people in perpetuity.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    9. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you're missing the point. They're not just giving the money away. The foundation is investing in results. By committing to ultimately spend all funds, a sense of urgency is created--you can't just say "we'll get to that later." You have to achieve results before that money is spent.

    10. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They tend to invest in doing things that will persist for generations

      Like Creationist education?

      (Also: why does this get modded down to Troll or Flamebait almost instantly, whenever I post it? Is it unreasonable to question where some of the Gates/Buffett largesse is going, considering how much Gates rambles on about the importance of science education to future US competitiveness?)

    11. Re:Stupid by BoomerSooner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lol, that's likely. Call me up when there is no need for contributions to charities.

    12. Re:Stupid by maxume · · Score: 1

      Because a few tens of thousands of dollars misdirected slightly(by the think center even) is a strange thing to worry about in the face of tens(err, hundreds) of millions of dollars well spent. If the grants to the Discovery Foundation did any damage in 2006, the other activities of the Gates foundation made up for it by sometime around 12:05 on January the 1st.

      Thanks for the pointer by the way, I used to have an open mind about Manjoo, now I know he is a worthless hack.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    13. Re:Stupid by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter - if you take a fair chunk of money and invest it at a good rate of return, compounded annually, it will eventually be worth nothing. Don't believe me? So how much is a Spanish (the origin of the Dollar sign) worth today? Not to mention Lira, Drachma and a whole zoo of now defunct currencies.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    14. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because a few tens of thousands of dollars misdirected slightly(by the think center even) is a strange thing to worry about in the face of tens(err, hundreds) of millions of dollars well spent

      RTFA. The Gates Foundation gave ten million dollars to the Discovery Center.

    15. Re:Stupid by BoomerSooner · · Score: 1

      That's assuming there are no new diseases. How likely is that?

    16. Re:Stupid by LindseyJ · · Score: 1
      Is it unreasonable to question where some of the Gates/Buffett largesse is going, considering how much Gates rambles on about the importance of science education to future US competitiveness?

      Yes. Almost as unreasonable as preferring one theory about the beginning of time over another.
    17. Re:Stupid by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 1

      To be spent on transportation analysis projects, not creationist research.

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    18. Re:Stupid by Steppman2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Quite frankly, it's his money...and since he's decided to give it to charity he should be able to decide what charities to give it to. Technically speaking he could just burn it all to keep his house warm, or buy millions of hookers. Even if he had spent a billion dollars on Christian education that still isn't anywhere near what he gives to everything else. I think respect should be given where it's due, as much as I don't like Microsoft, Bill Gates is giving a lot of money that he earned willingly to help those less fortunate. Thanks Bill, keep it up.

    19. Re:Stupid by DenDude · · Score: 1

      Like Creationist education? From TF(Salon)A

      The Gates Foundation responds that it hasn't abandoned science to back intelligent design. Greg Shaw, Pacific Northwest director, explains that the grant to Discovery underwrites the institute's "Cascadia Project," which strictly focuses on transportation in the Northwest. So it looks like the funding is not going to "Creationist Education", but to a project to improve transportation in the Northwest, although it's the same group.
      --
      A Haiku: my language choices/assembler pascal lisp c/old school programmer
    20. Re:Stupid by LindseyJ · · Score: 1

      That is never going to happen, ever. There are always going to be underprivileged, 'miserable' people. Our entire social structure is built upon that basic assumption, so that the rest of us can live our lives in a better state than they while standing on their shoulders, and those above us can do the same.

      Don't like it? You can always try and start your own society where that basic principal doesn't hold true, though history is against those sorts of societies lasting terribly long (or being terribly effective). Failing that, you could kill yourself, or go live by yourself on a desert island someplace. That's the only other way you won't have to deal with it.

    21. Re:Stupid by maxume · · Score: 1

      I *read* the article(emphasis implies 'comprehension'). Most of that money was spent on other projects. Specifically, the Cascadia project. That they gave money to a center that does some good things and some bad things doesn't bother me all that much, especially since they gave money to a good thing.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    22. Re:Stupid by desNotes · · Score: 1

      You make an excellent point! If I had millions and billions to invest in non-profit causes, investing in one project while another is so against my core beliefs would be a non-starter for me. Questions like how much of the money is going for 'administration' supporting all projects? How much to the board members who support ID/Creationism receive?

      This is not a free speech issue, they can speak of their beliefs all the want but it doesn't take away my right to disagree.

      --
      "Saying that Linux is inferior to Windows because more people use Windows is like saying that all restaurants are inferi
    23. Re:Stupid by sholden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes because the work done in the fight against, say smallpox, is of no use to you at all since there are other diseases. I guess we should just introduce the virus back into the wild since all those other diseases mean there's no benefit to the current generation from the work to eradicate it.

    24. Re:Stupid by eck011219 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think foundations go stale after a while, and perhaps that's why they're doing this. If you allow a foundation to exist perpetually, it has to spend a certain about of effort worrying about how to best invest its money to keep going. Why not set an end date (or, to use one of the more annoying recently made-up terms, allow it to "sunset") and just let it burn bright and hot for a prescribed period of time? Say what you will about Microsoft, but Bill Gates has some truly fantastic ideas about money. The quote about his kids (something along the lines of, "I will leave them enough that they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing"), some of the things he's doing with the foundation itself (including this now), and so on, lead me to believe that he's really giving this a lot of thought himself (instead of attaching his name for tax purposes to a foundation that is then run by professional Foundation People).

      Could also be that he feels like his legacy should last only a prescribed period of time -- why hold future generations to your ideals? It could be that he trusts future generations to figure out money and what's important for themselves. Or not -- just an errant thought.

      I have long been a defender of Bill Gates on his philanthropy -- most of my friends (the Linux geeks in particular, but everyone) seem to think he's not giving enough of his fortune. But if you give it all now, it won't be there later to give more. Could be that ten years from now, the most pressing need in the world will be to rebuild the educational system in the Middle East (after the U.S. bombs the bananas out of the Muslim nations). Or maybe AIDS research will need just a billion dollars more. Or Parkinson's. Or something as bad as AIDS that we don't know about yet. Or whatever. But if he had gone ahead and spent all of it on Africa, he couldn't be effective later.

      This, when coupled with the 50-year idea, may well create a nice middle-ground response where they can give generously now but will still have enough scratch to give to something they can't anticipate right now. And if you can budget for how long your finite foundation will last, maybe you can give more every year until it burns out instead of constantly worrying about reinvesting. Wouldn't it be great if a foundation had more people employed to spend money on need than to raise it?

      The man's foundation is giving 1.75 BILLION dollars a year (an amount larger than the GDP of a lot of countries, if my almanac is accurate). They've committed to double that in the next three years. I see no reason to nitpick about how he does it. AIDS treatment, education, community development, and a lot of it in Africa, where more people are forgotten every day than are born around the rest of the world. If someone wants to get more aggressive and pony up more money for African nations than Bill Gates, go for it -- none of the other few people who can seem to be doing it, though.*

      And on that note, good for Warren Buffett -- attaching his fortune to another of equal size increases its power exponentially.

      * What's Wal-Mart giving? I don't know -- I'm actually asking. But I bet it's less than $3.5 billion.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    25. Re:Stupid by rhakka · · Score: 1

      Way to take it literally.

      The point is, with a concentrated effort GREAT gains can be made. With a diffuse effort, small, longer term gains could be made.

      Think of money as energy. Low-level energy isn't all that useful. Concentrated bursts of energy are much more useful.

      I'm not saying this plan is right or wrong, but there is definitely a debate to be had. I never questioned the wisdom of perpetual interest being the best route before, but I can see the point here; it's about more than money. You can reap dividends in human terms, by focusing on something and stomping on it hard now.

      To illustrate the point, what if Bill took his money and split it among a very large number of poor people? If he invested, and divided up the interest, it would be nearly a nearly useless gesture. But the raw cash could give bigger checks that could actually be of use to the poor people, who could use that money to "leg up" out of poverty. Again, just to illustrate the point, not that he should actually go out and do that.

    26. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, he couldn't just burn it to keep his house warm. That's a felony.

    27. Re:Stupid by Simon80 · · Score: 1

      Excepting the 50000 a year going to the salary of the guy who runs the entire think tank, including the ID crap.. It's only 50000 compared to hundreds of millions, but it angers me nonetheless, in the same way that people spending a measly hundred bucks or two on Windows drives me nuts.

    28. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The goal is to invest, but not invest in traditional stock markets. They are investing in human lives and the betterment of mankind as a whole, which is a much stronger investment

      Huh? Investing in traditional stock markets is for the betterment of mankind as a whole as well. All trade makes both parties better off. Business, in general, had done more for mankind than charity ever will. What Gates is doing is making the poorest part of mankind better off. Nothing wrong with that at all, but let's not pretend that charity is somehow better for mankind than regular business.

    29. Re:Stupid by lilfields · · Score: 1

      I figure that's why Warren Buffet jumped on board, it seems that the Charity will be ran like a holdings company, which IMO is better than simply giving away assets to often irresponsible recipients. I love the idea of a more free market approach to charity, if you want to call it "free market".

    30. Re:Stupid by quizzicus · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that spending money now can create more money in the future. If you cure AIDS, you don't need to pay for medication anymore. If you build a highway, that's a permanent enhancement to an economy. And then, the economic benefit of universal good will (being optimistic) cannot be overestimated.

    31. Re:Stupid by GigG · · Score: 1

      (Also: why does this get modded down to Troll or Flamebait almost instantly, whenever I post it? Is it unreasonable to question where some of the Gates/Buffett largesse is going, considering how much Gates rambles on about the importance of science education to future US competitiveness?)

      It might help if you pointed to original source material instead of some damn blog.

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    32. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition, full-blown nanotechnology will arrive within 20 years.

      So, even if they both died today, there would be 30 years in which money wouldn't matter before they would have to spend it all.

      So, this is Bill and Melinda voting with their wallets that nanotechnology will arrive; and, that it might take 2.5 generations instead of the one that most of us have extrapolated from our current growth curve.

      Politics (wars) may affect our reaching that point, so padding it by a bit is a good idea for them to stay as relevant as possible, until the date that entertainment and relationships are life's determining factors.

      Actually, an even better idea would be to spend half the organization's resources, today, on "the path to nanotech" as that will help the maximum amount of people.

    33. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True enough for the developed world. Giving the working class poor of America money will, in fact, do very little good that the government and business can't do themselves. Some charity here and there helps with the perpetual homeless, but that's about it.

      Businesses, however, currently have very little incentive to invest in most African nations. Unlike the Asian nations where vast foreign investments take place, most African countries also present a large language barrier, as well as a lack of basic utilities and infrastructure. Hopefully with some educational and economic backing, the nations will become more stable and more lucrative to businesses that can easily create a large number of jobs (much like the transformation that India and China have undergone in the last 50 years).

    34. Re:Stupid by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      Because some ethic things to do have no way to return profits, because with 3.5 Billions one time, you may have enough funds to give away medicine to erradicate entirely a disease NOW with a good degree of certitude while trying to create a virtuous cycle or a very long term project is something we just don't manage to do.

      Maybe Bill doesn't want to give an economy theory or model a chance, maybe he just want results that he knows will happen by just spending huge amounts of cash. So far, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has had good results.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    35. Re:Stupid by jpop32 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention Lira, Drachma and a whole zoo of now defunct currencies.

      Not such a good examples, I'd say. 1Euro gets you exactly 340.750 Greek Drachma. Or 1936.27 Italian Lira. And the rate will not change that soon. Or ever.

      Look it up: http://www.euro.ecb.int/en/section/conversion.html

    36. Re:Stupid by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      Only if convicted, and its Bill gates we're discussing here, so that isn't likely.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    37. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ad hominem much?

    38. Re:Stupid by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      After a while, foundations diverge from the principles of their founders, the Ford Foundation being a prime example. Limiting the life of the foundation seems like the most effective way of preventing this from happening.

      --
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    39. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No... defacing or destroying currency is not illegal. FRAUDULENTLY defacing currency, however, is a felony. Drawing two zeros on a one dollar bill and trying to pass it off as a one hundred dollar bill is a felony. Melting down coins because the metal they are made of is worth more than the coin is valued at is just fine. Burning money to keep warm would not be a felony.

  3. Increase access to technology? by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 0, Troll

    Does this mean that they will help the OLPC project out with some funding now rather than making fun of it?

    --
    Beep beep.
    1. Re:Increase access to technology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're mixing Gates' business interests with his philanthropy interests and questioning him when they conflict?

    2. Re:Increase access to technology? by WED+Fan · · Score: 1

      No, the Gates foundation is about feeding (millions of) men for a day, not teaching them to fish.

      Yeah, those schools, health centers, and teaching materials have nothing to do with teaching the poor of Africa.

      --
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
  4. Seems like a waste by Jekler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it would be a better move to establish organizational policies that dictate an amount or percentage that must be donated over certain time periods, instead of effectively forcing the end of a charitable foundation.

    Building such a large foundation is no small task, it just seems like a waste to dissolve all the work that went into it just because the founders aren't alive. I think it would be smarter to establish a policy that prevents it from hoarding assets and forces continued charitable work. Sort of like a charity/monetary GPL.

    1. Re:Seems like a waste by jadavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Building such a large foundation is no small task, it just seems like a waste to dissolve all the work that went into it just because the founders aren't alive.

      But foundations have a tendency to lose their way quickly after the benefactors die. There are no reality checks when it comes to a foundation, there is no feedback cycle that keeps them healthy.

      Look at the Nobel Prize. It's more of a political organization than anything else.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    2. Re:Seems like a waste by Jekler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree that foundations have a tendency to have their original intentions become distorted. I just think there should be some way to preserve it without complete dissolution being the best course of action.

      A side note: Not sure how I ended up getting modded troll, that seemed odd.

    3. Re:Seems like a waste by jadavis · · Score: 5, Informative

      I just think there should be some way to preserve it without complete dissolution being the best course of action.

      "Should" is not a useful word in the real world, unfortunately. A foundation is insulated from all external pressures. This can be good in some cases, but it ultimately leads to uselessness of the foundation.

      Everything is a tradeoff. When a foundation spends a dollar, that means the foundation is liquidating $1 worth of capital and labor in the marketplace. If they spend enough money, people lose their jobs, factories shut down, and new businesses are unable to find the resources (capital and labor) to start up.

      Of course, that dollar is hopefully spent wisely. If it is spent wisely, the benefits will outweigh the aforementioned costs. With someone like Bill Gates in charge, I'm sure those dollars are spent wisely. After he dies, who will make sure the dollars continue to be spent wisely? There is no feedback cycle to correct the course when they start making bad choices. Businesses do have a feedback cycle: their resources are taken away from them when they become inefficient.

      Donating to charity, although it makes you feel good, can actually be bad for society unless you make SURE your resources are used more wisely than where they were before.

      The best economic thing a normal person can do for society is to produce as much as possible, and consume as little as possible. It's simple, but rarely said. However, here in the US (like most countries), we tax production and not consumption (or very little, anyway). There are a million ways to make consumption taxes progressive, just like income taxes, but without the problems associated with taxing production.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    4. Re:Seems like a waste by claes · · Score: 1
      Look at the Nobel Prize. It's more of a political organization than anything else.


      Please explain your reasoning.

    5. Re:Seems like a waste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One great example: Borges..especially some of the Nobel prizes (such as literature) are mostly given to people with certain political affiliations..

    6. Re:Seems like a waste by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 1
      Businesses do have a feedback cycle: their resources are taken away from them when they become inefficient.
      That's just not true. Food is wasted at fast-food restaurants while people starve outside. If they gave the food to the people, no one would be worse off and one person would be a little happier. So the status quo is inefficient, but no force corrects it. Businesses make profits, but the logic of competition should see the profits decrease to zero as they all undercut one another. Used-car salesmen sell cars for more they you would pay for them if you knew all about their defects. But all these things happen, because the real world is not the happy ideal world of the proof of capitalism's efficiency. And people become satisfied. The proof only works if people are never satisfied. As for producing rather then consuming, it's rather hard to justify useless work as being efficient. Oh, and shouldn't we welcome high unemployment rates as proof that we all have time to spare and still make all the goods we need?
      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    7. Re:Seems like a waste by ppanon · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah, I know what you mean. You never see prizes awarded to authors like Newt Gingrich or Bill O'Reilly in spite of their great empathy and insight into the human condition. Oh, wait...

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    8. Re:Seems like a waste by Sapphon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      There are a million ways to make consumption taxes progressive, just like income taxes, but without the problems associated with taxing production.


      Really? My taxation professor would be very interested to know about them, I'm sure. Could you provide some sources (preferably academic)?

      How, for example, could one overcome the problem that, as the income/consumption ratio is not constant (i.e. the more people earn, the lower the proportion of their earnings they spend on consumption - an empircally proven statement), broadly taxing consumption is necessarily regressive?

      High-income earners don't have a consumption basket so vastly different from low-income earners that it is possible to target them on the consumption side to any significant degree; while one can certainly tax luxury goods, the very nature of those goods means their demand elasticity is high enough that the tax burden falls not on the consumer, but the producer.

      Aside from your last paragraph, I agree with your post. Donating to a wasteful charity can be worse than spending the same money locally, or putting it aside for the capital market to use. However, most large charities have recognised this and publish breakdowns of their spending (both by project goal and administrative expenses), so it's relatively easy to make an informed choice.
      --
      Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
    9. Re:Seems like a waste by jadavis · · Score: 3, Informative

      Food is wasted at fast-food restaurants while people starve outside.

      Of course businesses aren't 100% efficient. You could pick 1000 other examples. However, the point is that there IS negative feedback that limits how inefficient the business can be. If they sold one meal for every 1000 they threw away, that business would be liquidated by the shareholders and the shareholders would replace it with another more efficient business. That's called negative feedback, and it keeps businesses on the track of efficiency.

      the real world is not the happy ideal world of the proof of capitalism's efficiency

      The point of capitalism is not that it's perfectly efficient, but it allows correction when things become inefficient. Governments, schools, and foundations have much less in the way of feedback, and what feedback does happen is MUCH slower and MUCH less direct. If the government needs to move in a new direction, it takes YEARS to get new representatives, new bills, and new votes. By that time the correction is long overdue, and everyone's way off course. Also, by that time, the issue has been combined with so many other issues that a voter cannot logically separate the issues or determine causation as easily.

      If a business gets a little off-course, people get fired, capital is liquidated, and people are laid off. Those resources are then free for use by another company. This can happen to even a large business in a quarter year, and a smaller business in a few days.

      Also, under capitalism, generally the people with the most direct knowledge of a matter and the most interested parties are the ones making the decisions. That information is very valuable, and the processing of that information can't be done by a small group effectively. Capitalism works because the entire population is processing information around them constantly. A small fraction of the population simply can't collect and calculate the information quickly enough to be more efficient than capitalism. That's why socialism fails, and will continue to fail until they solve that problem.

      As for producing rather then consuming, it's rather hard to justify useless work as being efficient.

      Useless work is not production. Production is creating something that is demanded (by yourself or someone else).

      Oh, and shouldn't we welcome high unemployment rates as proof that we all have time to spare and still make all the goods we need?

      Nice try. You're using two different definitions of "unemployment". The economic definition is "people looking for work". If they are looking for work, that probably means that they are consuming without producing. That is undesirable because, as I said, we want people to produce more than they consume. In capitalism, there is negative feedback for not working, in specific, if you don't work you are eventually prevented from consuming.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    10. Re:Seems like a waste by jadavis · · Score: 1

      Could you provide some sources

      You're thinking of things in terms of "Item X is taxed at rate Y". I am saying that maybe a cheap car isn't taxed at all, but an expensive one is. The first 500 sq ft. might not be taxed at all, but the next 500 might be. Someone who lives very cheaply and for some reason buys a plasma screen might not pay a dime in taxes. Someone with a 500 sq ft apartment in Manhattan might pay taxes, while someone with a 1000 sq ft apartment in Kansas might not.

      This is my perspective: There are differences in consumption depending on how much money you have. Let's say you have no taxes on someone who is consuming less than $x, which might be based on someone living in about 500 sq ft. in a median-sized town somewhere, and eating basic food staples and taking the bus to work. If your income is high, you will consume more than that because you can, and you can't take your money with you when you die anyway. So, have progressive taxes going up from there. Want a 750 sq ft place closer to work, and a car? Pay a small amount in taxes. Want a penthouse apartment in Manhattan, a BMW, and steak every night? Pay a lot in taxes. Anything over $x you consume that year is taxed. Anything over 2*$x is taxed more heavily (for example). Progressive.

      It's no more complicated than our current income tax, that's for sure. And this way it discourages debt, encourages savings, encourages production, discourages consumption.

      most large charities have recognised this and publish breakdowns of their spending

      Right. And I applaud charities who spend their money wisely. I'm just trying to show that the money you give to a charity doesn't really come from YOU, it comes from your bank account, which had the money invested in labor and capital elsewhere.

      Now, I should have said, if you forego consumption and give to a charity instead, that is all good for society, and should be recognized as such.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    11. Re:Seems like a waste by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 1

      This isn't entirely true. It's entirely possible to produce things that are negative. Consumption in some cases has no appreciably negative consequences of any kind, and can have enormous positive consequences (assuming we're talking about capitalism here).

      Suppose I dedicate my time to producing large amounts of weaponized anthrax, and buying as few consumer goods as possible. My labour serves no purpose and no economic activity is created by me (other than whatever results from me selling weaponized anthrax to the homeless-insane). That would make me pretty much the worst person on Earth. Conversely, suppose you are on disability and spend whatever small amount of disposable income you have on, say, iPods. In that case, you're using up very few resources, and although you produce nothing, you're also not really costing anything other than the waste and complaining that results from redistributing wealth. If we give this hypothetical you even the most meagre, lazy, menial job, at which you hypothetically do very little work, you're now ahead of the curve. You're being mildly productive, creating wealth directly by your labour and indirectly by stimulating commerce for Apple (this hypothetical you is clumsy and breaks iPods quickly, and thus keeps Apple nicely busy). Hypothetical you, the lazy iPod-consuming guy, is way better than our hypothetical me, the ever-toiling breeder of anthrax who lives on pennies a day and buries his wealth in the backyard.

      Blah blah blah. Anyway, I totally agree with you about the charities thing though. Best that a charity like the Gates Foundation do its thing and then pass away, making room for the ultra-philanthropists of the future. Otherwise it runs the risk of becoming nothing more than a financial sink-hole. There are enough pseudo-charity-money-pits out there already. I haven't decided about consumption-taxation yet ... I think I'd need to actually study some macroeconomics before really forming a kick-ass, shouting-match-worthy, super elitist opinion on the subject. And really, if you can't be super elitist about something, what's the point?

    12. Re:Seems like a waste by Detritus · · Score: 1

      IIRC, U.S. law generally frowns upon "perpetual trusts". Charitable trusts are expected to eventually give all their money away, not hang around for the indefinite future.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    13. Re:Seems like a waste by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Building such a large foundation is no small task, it just seems like a waste to dissolve all the work that went into it just because the founders aren't alive.

      But foundations have a tendency to lose their way quickly after the benefactors die. There are no reality checks when it comes to a foundation, there is no feedback cycle that keeps them healthy.

      Indeed - the Ford Foundation has also come under scrutiny for its donation patterns.
       
      The town I live in suffers greatly because nearly a third of it's downtown real estate is owned by a charitable trust - but the trustees seem to have no ambition beyond getting enough money to pay the property taxes (and their own salaries) each year - plus a minimal amount of income for their nominal purpose. Redevelopment plan after redevelopment plan founders because the trust owns properties in key locations - and they simply aren't interested in playing. (On average, buildings owned by the trust have now stood empty for 15 years.)
    14. Re:Seems like a waste by rcamera · · Score: 1

      Food is wasted at fast-food restaurants while people starve outside

      that's where organizations like city harvest come into play.

      --
      Wave upon wave of demented avengers March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
    15. Re:Seems like a waste by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

      I wish there was a way to mod a post both Funny and Insightful. "... the ever-toiling breeder of anthrax who lives on pennies a day and buries his wealth in the backyard." I am still laughing at this phrase

      --
      Your ad could be here!
    16. Re:Seems like a waste by jadavis · · Score: 1

      Suppose I dedicate my time to producing large amounts of weaponized anthrax, and buying as few consumer goods as possible.

      Hahah. I think that's an example of "the exception proves the rule". Generally, productivity means you do something useful or create a useful product.

      stimulating commerce for Apple

      This is an example of visible benefits and invisible costs. The benefits are obvious: people get more jobs making iPods, and the newly-employed iPod makers buy other stuff. The cost is what other, more useful things may have been created and purchased if you didn't buy the iPods. For instance, maybe someone would use the flash memory for other products that are needed more urgently than your iPod collection. There is no free lunch, and you consuming those iPods has a negative overall effect on the rest of society.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    17. Re:Seems like a waste by vondo · · Score: 1

      This is exactly right. There is a Hershey foundation which exists to educate impoverished children in one school or some such. The charter of the foundation is such that this is the only thing they are supposed to do. They now have a lot of children in that school and so much money that the school can't possibly spend it all. But the foundation can't do something reasonable with the money because of the charter.

      If the Gates foundation charter is to combat disease in the developing world (let's say) it may be that in 80 years there may be nothing left to do. That'd be nice, wouldn't it? Why not let those who will make fortunes 80 years from now decide how to spend that money and get the maximum "short" term impact out of Bill and Warren's money?

    18. Re:Seems like a waste by king-manic · · Score: 1

      Your proposal simply forces those without the resources to have smaller houses and cheaper cars. You are now errecting a monetary wall, that is arbitrarily set. If you gradiuate the extra tarrifs enough you might get around that but it's become a worse nightmare then the current scheme. The money to fund public projects and services needs to come from somewhere. Income tax is about as fair as you can get it.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    19. Re:Seems like a waste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...instead of effectively forcing the end of a charitable foundation.

      Hey, it's all just about ROI. They are just trying to get the maximum use of their money, invested into the foundation - generating a positive image for themselves. This positive image wouldn't be much of use for them after they die, after all.

    20. Re:Seems like a waste by jadavis · · Score: 1

      Your proposal simply forces those without the resources to have smaller houses and cheaper cars.

      And how is that different from income tax?

      You are now errecting a monetary wall, that is arbitrarily set.

      Doesn't have to be.

      a worse nightmare then the current scheme.

      How so? You can get money from any source, and you only have to track what you actually spend. For most people, this would just be credit card statements and ATM withdrawls, and a monthly rent check (or mortgage). Add 'em up and pay the taxes. A lot of this could be automated.

      Income tax is about as fair as you can get it.

      The reason that this is more fair is because people can't get around it when they're living life large. There are many people who pay very low taxes and consume huge amounts of resources. This is because truly rich people usually already have all the money they need, and therefore pay little or no taxes.

      You may not make money where you live, but you almost certainly consume resources where you live. That makes it harder to avoid taxes by making money one place, having a legal residence another, and actually living in a high-tax area.

      If you think about it, income tax makes no sense at all. It's essentially saying that once you have money in the bank you're free and clear of taxation. So, you have no incentive to keep money there for investment, retirement, etc.

      Also, what sense does it make as a society to take money out of one person's bank account through income tax versus some other account? Bank accounts represent the savings of the entire society until the owner of the account chooses to use that money to consume. Until they do that it's not even really "their" money, so society is just stealing from it's own savings by "taxing the rich". Taking their money may restrict their ability to consume and may not, but that's too indirect and pointless.

      People think about money in entirely the wrong way. You don't "own" it, money is a marker that you can use to reallocate resources. You don't own any part of it until you decide to reallocate resources to yourself (i.e. consume). It doesn't matter whether rich people can "afford" to pay taxes or not, it matters how the resources that money represents are reallocated.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    21. Re:Seems like a waste by Cirvam · · Score: 1

      The Hershey foundation runs the Milton Hershey school and owns something like 30% or so of the Hershey Company along with various entertainment properties. While they do have a lot of money, they also are expanding the school and the cost of schooling does go up as time goes on. So they could do something else with the money, but then their primary goal would probably suffer, more so since it was organized in 1915 and the organizational papers have been changed for the foundation several times to expand their mission. However since their mission is education of impoverished children, they seem content to use their money to grow in this aspect since I don't think anyone has solved all the issues in just the education field.

    22. Re:Seems like a waste by h2_plus_O · · Score: 1
      There are a million ways to make consumption taxes progressive, just like income taxes, but without the problems associated with taxing production.
      Really? My taxation professor would be very interested to know about them, I'm sure.
      A flat-rate consumption tax can be made progressive by the same means a flat-rate income tax can be made progressive; by establishing a prebate or standard deductible. This un-taxes the first [n] amount of the taxed activity. If we did away with our income taxes and replaced them with a flat-rate consumption tax but un-taxed basic subsistence-level consumption by sending everyone a check each month for [n] amount of taxable shopping, the result would be that in order to pay a positive amount of taxes, you'd need to consume above [n] level and your effective rate would become progressively higher the more you consume.
      High-income earners don't have a consumption basket so vastly different from low-income earners that it is possible to target them on the consumption side to any significant degree
      Nor is there a compelling need to. Consumption taxation targets consumption, not income. ...and given that a good portion of tax code is devoted to mitigating the harm of taxing productive behavior and savings (really, the US tax code's 50,000+ lines of code could be interpreted as an expression of an ongoing disagreement about just what taxable income really should be), there's something to be said for getting away from it altogether. Progressiveness is nice, but not when it costs everyone more than it should.
      --
      If there's one thing I won't stand for, it's intolerance.
    23. Re:Seems like a waste by Jahz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Chances are that 25 years after the Gates die, the foundation will decide that it doesnt want to die and start to fund raise from the rich and powerful moguls of the world. They've already taken a 40 (i think it was 40) billion dollar endowment from a stock billionaire. Who says other ridiculously wealthy people won't also donate unthinkable quantities of money in the future?

      --
      There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
    24. Re:Seems like a waste by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      What are you wittering on about? Bill O'Reilly and Newt Gingrich haven't won the Nobel prize.

    25. Re:Seems like a waste by arcade · · Score: 2, Informative

      I used to agree with you, until I read an excellent article in The Economist which changed my perspective. If you take a look at:

      http://www.economist.com/printedition/index.cfm?d= 20060701

      It's the leader article. Unfortunately it's subscription only, but I think it's fair use to snip the last paragraph, which Bill seems to have taken to heart, and repost it here:

      "The second danger lies in the vanity of philanthropists. They often like the notion that their foundations will live on after them, carrying their name down from generation unto generation. But, after the founder has died, foundations tend to become sclerotic and directionless--the fiefs of administrators who have lost sight of the original aims. So if you aim to be a truly philanthropic philanthropist, spend your money fast: do as much good as you can when you're alive, and let posterity go hang."

      I think we can conclude that Bill reads the Economist. :p

      --
      "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
    26. Re:Seems like a waste by Sapphon · · Score: 1

      Mmmm, I think I see where you're coming from. Instead of saying "the first $x of an income are tax free, amounts beyond that attract tax", you say "the first $x of a good are tax free, amounts beyond that attract tax" - where $x is set so that basic G&S attract minimal tax.

      I'm confused by your plasma screen example, though. I assume you want to place the tax on the goods themselves, because tracking 'consumption' as an aggregate for a household is unfeasible (households don't have any motive to do it - less recorded consumption, less tax - , and the Gov't can't keep track of every time I buy a litre of milk), but in that case I can't see a plasma screen falling into "Basic Goods & Services".

      Furthermore, because even the richest people have largely overlapping consumption habits with the masses as far as basic G&S are concerned (their bread, butter and milk doesn't cost 3x as much, for example), and the tax base for 'expensive' consumption is therefore quite narrow, the tax rate required to finance.. well, anything, would have to incredibly high.

      To draw an example from the income side, simply because I know the figures: it's possible to have a tax system where the first $20-30'000 a person earns - enough for a comfortable lifestyle - is tax free, with tax on amounts above that financing the Gov't. The necessary tax rate, however, was something in the order of 60-70% on amounts above $20/30'000. That's a tough sell.

      Your system may elegant, it may be desireable, it may even be practical. But if it's not politically attractive, it's dust.

      --
      Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
    27. Re:Seems like a waste by vondo · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the details. But isn't there some controversy that have expanded the mission? There are lawsuits over this, right? Wasn't the intended mission of the founder *only* to run the school? Clearly there are enough problems in education to suck up almost any amount of money. But one either has to make the mission so broad that the later board can change it to be almost anything or risk developments or the amount of money making the mission of the foundation not match very well with the situation on the ground.

    28. Re:Seems like a waste by Sapphon · · Score: 1

      Agreed - there's a very simple theoretical way of doing it. However, it's phenomenally impractical.
      See my reply to the other guy.

      --
      Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
    29. Re:Seems like a waste by h2_plus_O · · Score: 1
      there's a very simple theoretical way of doing it. However, it's phenomenally impractical.
      It's only as impractical as you make it-and based on your comments, it sounds like you're assuming that the only way to pay taxes is by counting on people to track and report their taxable activity honestly and settle up the bill at the end of the year, as is now done with income. This, I agree, would be phenomenally impractical- if, by phenomenally impractical, you mean 'precisely how we already do it'.
      A switch to a flat-rate, progressive retail consumption tax (with a standard prebate/rebate/deductible to make it progressive and un-tax necessity-level consumption) would simplify things a lot, be very good for business, and actually make enforcement easier- in the US, instead of 140M+ household returns, there would be ~19M retail points of sale. Auditing sales is vastly simpler than auditing income. Retail sales taxes are already calculated by software, are anonymous, transaction-based, and don't require the kind of invasive nonsense we tolerate today.
      --
      If there's one thing I won't stand for, it's intolerance.
  5. Redistributing the wealth by i_should_be_working · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One thing I really like about the philanthropic gestures from the Bill and Melinda foundation is that their fortune is new money and it all came from selling software to the middle class or above. It's literally taking (willingly) from the rich and giving to the poor.

    1. Re:Redistributing the wealth by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's literally taking (willingly) from the rich and giving to the poor.

      No, it's not. Exactly not.

      He's not taking the cash equivalent of the price of a vaccine and all of the costs of getting that vaccine to a child in Africa, and then just handing that money to that poor person. He's changing the circumstances on the ground so that those people can become middle class folks who will participate in an economy like the one that his existing customers enjoy. That's WAY better than "giving" it to them.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Sinbios · · Score: 0, Troll

      You make it sound like some evil scheme to... help them become his "victims" or something. By keeping them from dying from various diseases! Gee.

      --
      Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
    3. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's literally taking (willingly) from the rich and giving to the poor.

      Willingly is way off. He had a monopoly position in operating systems that made it literally impossible to buy computer equipment without giving Microsoft money.

      Maybe I wanted to spend my money on a different, worthwhile cause?

      Maybe I feel the Gates foundation is completely incompetent, and I'd like to spend that money on the same cause in a more effective way?

      Doing some good with the money you stole from people doesn't make up for the stealing.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:Redistributing the wealth by troll+-1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most it came from an illegal monopoly

    5. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their move to the middle class is then followed by them paying through the nose to use their new computers...

    6. Re:Redistributing the wealth by AArmadillo · · Score: 0

      I don't know. Robin Hood was usually considered to be a heroic character.

    7. Re:Redistributing the wealth by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      Well, I never said he's giving cold hard cash to poor kids in other countries did I? And I appreciate your point, but geez, it's just a saying and it's still applies. No matter what manipulations the wealth goes through, the fact is he's still giving it away.

    8. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure that's because in the Robin Hood stories, the rich are evil miscreants who work hard to ensure the poor suffer.

      I personally tend not to think of myself that way, and do my best not to act that way.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    9. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 0

      No, I didn't have a literal choice. There was no computer manufacturer who would sell my computer equipment I needed to do business that would sell me computer equipment without a microsoft license.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    10. Re:Redistributing the wealth by LaughingCoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Speaking of redistributing wealth ... tell that to the government as well.

      The government has a monopoly position that makes it literally impossible to earn, invest or buy *anything* without giving the government money.

      Maybe I wanted to spend my money on a different, worthwhile cause?

      Maybe I feel the government is completely incompetent and I'd like to spend that money on the same cause in a more effective way?

      Doing some good with the money you stole from people doesn't make up for the stealing.

      --
      The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    11. Re:Redistributing the wealth by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      Willingly is way off. He had a monopoly position in operating systems that made it literally impossible to buy computer equipment without giving Microsoft money.

      Did someone force you to buy a computer? No, you willingly departed with your money in exchange for a computer. Despite the way we behave around here computers are still, in fact, not a necessity of life.

    12. Re:Redistributing the wealth by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No matter what manipulations the wealth goes through, the fact is he's still giving it away.

      But that's exactly my point: he's not. In every sense that matters, he's investing it. Which is a far, far better thing than giving it away. He has a vested interest in a thriving market economy peopled by healthy, educated, productive (not dead or dying of hideous diseases) folks, and he's spending the money towards that end. As we've seen over and over again, simply giving it away not only doesn't really help, it usually makes matters worse.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    13. Re:Redistributing the wealth by whoever57 · · Score: 1
      Did someone force you to buy a computer? No, you willingly departed with your money in exchange for a computer. Despite the way we behave around here computers are still, in fact, not a necessity of life.
      For many (or perhpas now, most) businesses, computers are necessary for life.

      Besides which, your argument is ridiculous: just because something is not absolutely necessary to live does not mean that it is not a monopoly that people effectively have to buy. For example: gasolene is not a necessity of life, yet how many people in the US could get buy without buying it? Let's go a bit further: are clothes a necessity of life? Probably not in summer for large parts of the USA.
      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    14. Re:Redistributing the wealth by A.K.A_Magnet · · Score: 1

      If Gates had just profited from the wealthy (ie Western and Japanese) people it would be OK. But he also sold his overpriced low-quality OS to poor people and thus exploited the Third World. Robin Hood wouldn't have done so. If Bill Gates had used Windows and all his bad-quality software to take money from us rich people and then give back to fight AIDS and help the Third World, I may say "why not"? I'm a Free Software fanatic but that would have redeemed Gates' soul. The problem is, Gates continues to sell features-stripped Windows versions to Indian people, etc. Now it shouldn't ever be forgotten that Bill Gates created his empire this way (and that he broke the law numerous times and has no ethics).

    15. Re:Redistributing the wealth by NineNine · · Score: 1, Insightful

      He had a monopoly position in operating systems that made it literally impossible to buy computer equipment without giving Microsoft money.

      You're slandering one of the greatest philanthropists of our generation with an outright lie.

      Fuck you.

    16. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The middle class never wins. :-(

    17. Re:Redistributing the wealth by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing that it's wasn't a monopoly. Just that it's not stealing. No one forcefully separated you from your money. End of conversation.

    18. Re:Redistributing the wealth by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      Ok, I agree. Although I doubt he'll live to see the day when those aids orphans are buying Windows products.

    19. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      Bullcrap. I would have done it for you. I wouldn't have even charged an outrageous amount. I'd have picked up some commonly available parts - cases, power supplies, motherboards, chips, and assembled them for you. A modest markup to show some profit for myself would have been all I required. And I would have sold you the bare machine if you so desired, with no Microsoft software at all. I'd have even installed the Linux distribution of your choice.

      Why didn't you give me a call?

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    20. Re:Redistributing the wealth by t-twisted · · Score: 1

      Despite the way we behave around here computers are still, in fact, not a necessity of life.

      Neither is your car.

      Or electricity. Man existed without it before, we just didn't live in such large numbers in less-than-temperate climates.

      Or money.. because I'm sure your bank carefully places the money (cash, right?) that you deposit into your own little safety deposit box with a key, and you can only withdraw from that same box. Must be a very big bank.

      T.

    21. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But copyright and patent laws are stealing, stealing my computational liberty. And Gates has profitted immensely from that legally-permitted theft (in fact if you look at 1976-1983 history you can see he was involved in making software something definitively copyrightABLE, before I was even born - prior to that it wasn't at all clear software would be copyrightable. The biggest thieves are the ones who write the laws).

      Just because it was legal doesn't make it right. Yes, he's been legally handed a monopoly on a gilt-edged plate. Well, screw him. The 19th century robber barons turned all philanthropic in their old age. I plan to outlive Gates just so that he doesn't get to rewrite his diabolical history unchallenged.

    22. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Rix · · Score: 0

      You're perfectly free to do so at any point. There's the door, don't let it hit your ass on the way out.

    23. Re:Redistributing the wealth by afedaken · · Score: 1

      Ummm... Exactly what sort of self respecting geek isn't willing or capable of either rolling his own machine, or locating a local OEM willing to sell one sans MS software?

      I mean, sure, the "MS-Tax" argument holds some water for the average big-box store consumer, but for a slashdotter?!?

      --
      If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
    24. Re:Redistributing the wealth by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      If I give away 80% of my (modest) wealth, does that make me as 'great' a philanthropist?

    25. Re:Redistributing the wealth by NineNine · · Score: 1

      I would say so, yes.

    26. Re:Redistributing the wealth by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
      It's literally taking (willingly) from the rich and giving to the poor.

      While I like that the Gates' are giving away large sums of moeny to those less fortunate, we need to keep in mind that the money came from stock price appreciation caused by Microsoft's illegal business practices.

      The money was not willingly given by the rich, it was stolen via monopoly-based software pricing.

    27. Re:Redistributing the wealth by jrsjrsjrs · · Score: 1

      I applaud Bill Gates' move. The Foundation will do it's good and then burnout, instead of wasting money on a perpetuity of lawyers, foundation reports and calls for proposals. Regarding the government taking a cut -- civilization has a price: taxes. Would you prefer blissful anarchy? It's our societal (and governmental) stability which makes accumulation of wealth possible at all.

    28. Re:Redistributing the wealth by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      He had a monopoly position in operating systems that made it literally impossible to buy computer equipment without giving Microsoft money.

      Not hardly. You can still buy a Sun server or workstation. You can still buy an Apple workstation (or server, kinda).

      You can buy scads of different IBM servers.

      All of the above can be completely Microsoft free.

      Now, if you want to maintain that *you* couldn't buy computer equipment, because all you understand is MS-DOS derivatives....

    29. Re:Redistributing the wealth by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      So, running an illegal monopoly is OK, but getting money by other illegal methods is not? That's a distinction without a difference. Where do you draw the line? Is fraud OK, or do weapons have to be involved for you to condemn it?

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    30. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm. It's absurdly easy to buy computer parts without giving Microsoft money. Just because your definition of a computer part is a fully assembled computer from Dell doesn't mean that all peoples are. In any case, how does a monopoly position in OS's equate to giving them money on a purchase? This happens because Microsoft gives rebates to these companies in exchange for using Microsoft.

    31. Re:Redistributing the wealth by ninjamonkey · · Score: 1

      But that's exactly my point: he's not. In every sense that matters, he's investing it.


      Worst-case scenario: Gates is vaccinating destitute children so that they can grow to become the cheap workforce the West needs.

      Best-case scenario: out of a genuine concern for human life, Gates is vaccinating destitute children so that they can grow and live happy, productive lives.

      Even in the worst possible case that I can come up with, what he's doing will improve the lives of human beings.

      Honestly, I think you're projecting a lot of Microsoft monopoly hate unnecessarily here.

    32. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, I think you're projecting a lot of Microsoft monopoly hate unnecessarily here. I think that you are misreading your parent. That post says that Gates is trying to help people by actively investing money. That way the people get the benefit of both Gates' wealth and judgment. Your parent is *praising* Gates for doing more than just giving people money, claiming that "investing" is better than giving.

      I think that you are the one doing the projecting. You are interpreting praise as criticism. Criticism would look more like:

      One could argue that Gates making these choices for people is paternalistic, etc. That's a reasonable argument, but after all, it is Gates' money. If the poor people wanted to be rich, they could have just been born to rich parents who happened to know the CEO of IBM. Then they too could have engaged in illegal business practices to make millions (or even billions) of dollars.

      See the difference?
    33. Re:Redistributing the wealth by jrobinson5 · · Score: 0

      Maybe because he didn't want to buy a computer from some random, unknown slashdot poster who goes by "Profane MothaFucka"?

    34. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

      Most windows installs in third world countries are pirated anyway, and Third world countries sales are a rather tiny number in Microsoft's books. I am from a third world country, I was born poor, and let me tell you that while nowadays my programs are mostly for Unix systems or java based, I wouldn't be a middle-class guy today if it weren't for Microsoft.
      Compared to the alternatives, IBM PCs with MS-DOS were arguably the first systems affordable and useful enough for small business. Because of that, I had the chance to have access to a computer when I was a teenager working in a small electronics shop and because of that I had the chance of becoming a programmer that I would not have otherwise.
      I was poor enough to starve, but my mother could not pay me an expensive education, I had to learn english with books in a public library(so grammar nazis, take it easy with me!), and I would never be able to enter a college and become a computer professional (there are public universities in Brasil, but they are on the big cities, and I was from a small town that had only private colleges, that I could never afford to enter). MS-DOS PCs, on the other side, were the paradise for the self-taught man as they were popular and there was a lot of books about it that you could buy cheaply or borrow.
      As a matter of fact, I paid my higher education while making small programs and fixing PCs. I doubt I would have this chance in a world of VAXen or UNIX microcomputers that were way too expensive for small business. So, while Microsoft has done a lot of damage for his competitors, it's not true that they hadn't done some good also. Actually, I would say that Bill Gates gave me a profession, although it was Linus that made it fun ;-)

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    35. Re:Redistributing the wealth by ChrisMaple · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Doing some good with the money you stole from people doesn't make up for the stealing."

      With regard to government, since to have civilization we must have some government, the proper principle is that the damage that can be prevented by using the stolen money must be worse than the damage that is stealing the money. Murder is worse than theft, and murder can be discouraged in a cost-effective manner by paying police with tax money. Dropping a gum wrapper on the sidewalk is not worse than theft, and paying a policeman to agressively patrol against minor littering is not cost-effective.

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    36. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Digz · · Score: 1

      You can.. That's why charitable donations are tax deductible..

      --
      SYS 64738
    37. Re:Redistributing the wealth by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Willingly is way off. He had a monopoly position in operating systems that made it literally impossible to buy computer equipment without giving Microsoft money.

      False. There has never been any point in time when it has been impossible to buy computers without Windows.

    38. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      As morally/ethically noble and worthy, yes. As historically/politically/effectively great, no. I see "greatness" as a matter of quantity more than quality, really: I like the little brook that runs near my house a lot more than I like the Mississippi, but I would call the Mississippi, and not that little brook, a "great" river.

    39. Re:Redistributing the wealth by mabinogi · · Score: 1

      There is nothing illegal about having a monopoly.
      Microsoft are not an illegal monopoly.

      They were ruled as being a monopoly, which was important for the anti trust case, because if they weren't ruled as being a monopoly then there was no case to answer under anti trust laws.

      They were convicted for the actions they took in maintaining and extending that monopoly.

      Too many people on slashdot seem to have confused the finding of facts in that case where the judge found that Microsoft was in fact a monopoly for the purposes of the case, and the outcome where they were convicted for anti-trust violations. The violation wasn't that they were a monopoly.

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    40. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've got another account. Maybe he would rather buy a computer from that guy?

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    41. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Redistributing of wealth" is a misnomer in the first place. Wealth is either created, given, or taken. "Redistribution" is putting lipstick on a pig, trying to make it respectable, when it's really just taking someone else's wealth with the justification that you know better how to spend their money than they do. In this case, it's being given, in consideration for something in return. He's buying something for his money. Redistribution has nothing to do with it. At all. That already happened when he paid his taxes.

    42. Re:Redistributing the wealth by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      As a matter of fact, I paid my higher education while making small programs and fixing PCs. I doubt I would have this chance in a world of VAXen or UNIX microcomputers that were way too expensive for small business. So, while Microsoft has done a lot of damage for his competitors, it's not true that they hadn't done some good also.

      Without Bill Gates, there would have been just as many PCs and work for you. They wouldn't have been running MSDOS and Windows, maybe something similar like CP/M , GEM; or possibly Apple would have gone more mainstream. In any case, thank Intel, IBM, AMD and Motorola, not Microsoft, for your job.

      It's not that MS software is completly crap, but that it has smothered any competition.

    43. Re:Redistributing the wealth by elgatozorbas · · Score: 1

      Willingly is way off. He had a monopoly position in operating systems that made it literally impossible to buy computer equipment without giving Microsoft money. Maybe I wanted to spend my money on a different, worthwhile cause?

      If I understand well you complain about the charitable cause a businessman donated his private money to??? What you got for your money was Windows or whatever product you bought. That's where the deal ends. Besides, he never forced you to buy his products.

      If you want to give (the rest of) your money to other charitable causes, go ahead, but don't come whining here.

    44. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

      Maybe. maybe not. maybe other companies would enter in symbiotic relationship with IBM and the PC clone market would not florish as it did. Maybe the excess competition would mean that there would be a lot of different operating systems and the market would never have scale.
      What made computers feasible for the masses of small business out there was the clone market and the fact that there was a single platform. I am not telling that this is the ideal for today, but in the beggining of the PC market it helped a lot. Things simply went faster, if you were a compiler writer, you'd need to write your compiler only for MS-DOS. If you were a small business owner, it was easy to find employees that knew how to operate the operating system you were using, because pratically everyone that was able to use a computer, was able to use a DOS based computer. It helped make the PC a good value proposition for small business. Of course Microsoft was able to have a premium because of their monopolistic position, and when they became too abusive, Linux had it's chance. Now I work as Chief Software Architect for a major brazilian retail chain, and I am in the middle of a project to convert all POS in our stores (more than 100 stores, with an average of 15 POS per store) to Linux. It proves that Microsoft monopoly is not that damaging.
      Microsoft does good things indeed, C# 3.0 is a great language, and I am liking more the evolution of C# than I like the way Java evolves. They have some good work with the Software Factories projects and so on.
      Franly, it's time we recognize that Microsoft deserves some respect.

      --
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    45. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      murder can be discouraged in a cost-effective manner by paying police with tax money.

      Can it really? Not as far as I have seen in my inquiries into the subject. And besides, if it were true, I'm sure they would be just as happy to take non-stolen money to do the same job. We can't abolish taxation immediately, I understand. But the idea that it is not only necessary but morally good is an incredibly destructive idea. We need to have the declared aim of moving towards a voluntary and just society, not one that says "sure I'm stealing from you, but that's better than killing you, right?"

    46. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      Actually, he did force me to buy his products by leveraging his monopoly position to make contracts such that if a vendor of x86 hardware wanted to sell any windows boxes, they had to sell all windows boxes. So for me to purchase an x86 box, there was no way to avoid paying him for windows, though I didn't need it or want it.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    47. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With regard to government, since to have civilization we must have some government,...

      Did you know that more than half of money "taken" by government is spent on military? I'd rather those ZILLIONS be spent on better-ment of humanity and betterment of american lives, than on WARFARE.

    48. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      There were many years where buying >100 x86 boxes without a MS operating system was impossible. There was no vendor who wasn't stuck in a MS contract who could satisfy such an order.
      Note that I was committed to x86, but didn't need the MS.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    49. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about purchasing as a business, in a context where you don't want to roll your own manufacturing capability, and need 100 new x86 boxes tomorrow.

      Do you want to hire all those assemblers? No, it doesn't make sense for your business.

      No self respecting businessman is that dumb.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    50. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      You're slandering one of the greatest philanthropists of our generation with an outright lie.

      It's not slandering when it's truth:
      http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/

      Apple made operating systems for non-x86 hardware.

      Today I would gladly accept that this is no longer true. That doesn't change that it was true.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    51. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      Others have already corrected you, but I'll just chime in: I willingly parted with my money to buy a computer. But not an MS operating system. I had no choice about that part.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    52. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      It's actually not false, but I should have been more specific. I needed x86 boxes, and I needed them in numbers that meant only a small number of companies ('the major vendors') could meet my needs, and every one of them had contracts with MS that prohibited selling boxes sans MS OS licenses.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    53. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      Were you advertising in any of the major magazines? Were you capable of delivering, in a timely manner, more than a hundred boxes in a week's time frame, and guaranteeing maintenance on those kinds of numbers over years? There are only a small number of companies who could do that, and they all had highly restricted contracts with MS.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    54. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      I had a little ad in the back of Hustler, which is a major magazine. It said "Blow Jobs and White Boxes".

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    55. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      :-)
      Now that was a great answer.
      And touche, I read that magazine. For the articles of course.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    56. Re:Redistributing the wealth by naasking · · Score: 1

      With regard to government, since to have civilization we must have some government,

      Unfounded assumption. See "The Machinery of Freedom" by David Friedman for a possible societal structure that requires no centralized government.

      Sandro

    57. Re:Redistributing the wealth by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      You were running IBM's PC-DOS? OS/2? What else would 'tie' you to x86?

    58. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to note that the rich "evil miscreants" in the Robin Hood story (at least as I know it) are Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham. These are not men who produced something of value and participated in a voluntary, mutually beneficial exchange with another, the very basis of capitalism, but corrupt officials of government who used forceful taxation to exploit their people.

      Of course, this is all tangential to your point, but a great number of people who associate individual wealth with exploitation and champion the redistribution of wealth will reference the Robin Hood story, even if it is entirely inappropriate for such an argument.

    59. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No self respecting businessman is dumb enough to find himself in the situation where he must have 100 new x86 boxes on one day's notice, either.

      I owned my own business through most of the 90's, and I never had a problem getting an adequate supply of Intel boxes without paying the 'Microsoft Tax'. You just have to be willing to take the time to research your suppliers. There is a certain amount of risk in not going with what everyone else is using, but in my company's case, that gamble paid off.

    60. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Duds · · Score: 1

      Willingly is way off. He had a monopoly position in operating systems that made it literally impossible to buy computer equipment without giving Microsoft money

      This simply isn't true and has never been true.

    61. Re:Redistributing the wealth by Surt · · Score: 1

      I clarified what I meant in other followups. If you wanted to buy from a reliable vendor, and needed to buy more than ~100 x86 boxes/week, there was no vendor you could choose who did not require you to buy an MS license with every box.

      And for smaller purchasers, it was at least very difficult to buy a box without an MS license, and you couldn't buy a box from any of the top 20 vendors.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  6. I actually agree with that decision... by jejones · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The vast majority of funds and foundations that have long survived their founders have gone in ideological directions that would outrage said founders; if Gates has set a time limit on his foundation, I certainly can't argue with it.

    1. Re:I actually agree with that decision... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      The vast majority of funds and foundations that have long survived their founders have gone in ideological directions that would outrage said founders

      Exactly. And the Gates foundation will be no different. If anyone believes in 50 years or whenever the the Gates foundation, with of the order of $100 billion dollars, will just quietly dissolve, they're insane. Those in charge of it will find a way to perpetuate it, probably just changing the name and shuffling people around.

  7. Charities should go away after a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I applaud this decision. I think that businesses and charities should all have a life span. Too often they become bloated with bureaucracy and weighted down with useless traditions. They think only of prolonging their own existence, above all other things.

    I am gaining respect for Mr. Gates with his handling of this charity. For a decade I outspent him in charity giving as a percentage of my income and worth. It is great to see him come around and finally give back to the world what the world was so gracious to give to him.

    1. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Jekler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mr. Gates has proven Machiavelli correct. As time marches forward, critics of Microsoft and Bill Gates are changing their tune; what Mr. Gates ultimately does with his wealth is more important than where it came from or how he got started building the wealth. Anti-trust violations, corporate bullying, it's acceptable so long as you later form a charity.

    2. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Somehow bundling IE with Windows doesn't seem as morally objectionable as employing child slaves to make shoes or something like that. Most people wouldn't find MS's offenses objectionable at all, that's a small minority here on Slashdot. Do you think breaking one law is the same as breaking any law? I see Bill Gates as a middle class college dropout who worked his ass off and is now going to help a lot of people. What can you say for yourself? What can I say for myself?

    3. Re:Charities should go away after a while by metlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anti-trust violations, corporate bullying, it's acceptable so long as you later form a charity.

      It is the degree of committing something wrong.

      You see, if I commit a traffic violation and if I save a man's life, does it really matter?

      Now Microsoft's business practices aren't particularly wonderful, but if at the end of the day, if it could help save millions of lives and help improve the quality of life for people across the world, then I honestly don't give a damn.

      Secondly, Bill Gates != Microsoft -- the latter is a corporation, and all corporations always have one motto - improve share holder value by working on the bottomline. Microsoft is no exception, and if a part of that profit is being used to help the *really* needy, then so be it.

      The way I see it is that all the whining about business practices is for the rich (i.e. a society that has enough money to afford computers and expensive software) and Bill using this money to help the poor. Of course, since _you_ are the rich being ripped off, you don't quite see it that way.

      Bill is a geek who was shrewd enough to hack the system to make money out of it, and he is giving it to the poor. More power to him.

      I'd rather have someone like him than someone like, say, Larry Ellison or Sam Walton.

      I mean, look at Larry Ellison's charity track record -- there is nothing stopping Bill from doing the exact same thing. But instead, he is using it for not just *some* good, but a lot of good.

    4. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Jekler · · Score: 1

      Somehow employing child slaves doesn't seem as morally objectionable as raping babies or something like that. There are even people who wouldn't find raping babies objectionable at all, even though that's a small minority. Do you think breaking one law is the same as breaking any law? I see the baby raper as a middle class college dropout, but at least he gives money to charity. What can you say for yourself? What can I say for myself?

    5. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can say that you feel that the difference between bundling software in a monopolistic fashion and employing child slaves is no greater than the difference between employing child slaves and raping babies.

      *nods*

    6. Re:Charities should go away after a while by metlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow, what a troll.

      Well, is speeding over the speed limit comparable to killing a man?

      Sure, you break the law in both cases but the conditions and consequences are different.

      Bill is breaking the traffic rules but saving people's lives -- while he's definitely breaking the law, I'd rather have him break the speed limit and help save people's lives than not.

      Get some perspective, people. Perspective.

      Life is bigger than software, and I cannot believe that folks are comparing antitrust violations and business practices with raping and killnig babies. Sheesh.

    7. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Jekler · · Score: 1

      The point is, there's always "something worse". You can't say that someone's actions aren't reprehensible just because you can think of something more reprehensible. It has nothing to do with the relative comparison.

    8. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Jekler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No speeding is not comparable to killing a man. But actions don't become better just because there's something worse.

      If someone steals $10,000 from you, and you find out some time later he's started his own business, living quite well in a Florida condo, and he's running an animal shelter, do you tell him what a great guy he is?

    9. Re:Charities should go away after a while by metlin · · Score: 1

      If I have used his services in anyway, then I have no right to complain. The folks that complain have used Microsoft's services in some way. Expensive? Yes. Forced, even? Perhaps (although this is a fine line).

      The guy hasn't stolen money for you - you paid that money because you wanted something in return (i.e. an Operating System, an Office application or whatever). Oh, he might have been sly and cunning in making you use that software, but you always had the choice to walk away. Is it unethical? Most definitely.

      But comparable to murder and rape? Hell, no.

      Secondly, Microsoft is a corporation with the bottom line as its objective and Bill is but a part of the corporation. The actions of the corporation do not equal the actions of Bill, and vice versa.

      I'd rather have a hundred Microsofts with a Bill at the helm helping the poor than a hundred Larry Ellisons.

    10. Re:Charities should go away after a while by t-twisted · · Score: 0

      You see, if I commit a traffic violation and if I save a man's life, does it really matter?

      If the traffic violation was a DUI which resulted in vehicular manslaughter then yes, it does matter.

      It's refreshing to see such earnest defense of Gates, but your line of reasoning is baffling.

      You seem to want to say that yes, he did break the law but no one was really hurt by it and now look at all the good he's doing. You think there were no damages to others? People who borrowed, begged, mortgaged their homes for start-up costs for some technology they had developed or business they were beginning, only to have MS squash them with almost limitless resources or buy them out at a fraction of what their technology was worth... you think their lives went on as usual? You think there is no cost to this? Using just one example, you think MS bundling IE with their OS didn't put someone, many people, out of a job? Since we can't put a an actual price in damages for what MS has cost the nation, I wouldn't dare try to dismiss it as unsubstantial.

      If you want to say hey, he's redeeming himself and acting like a stand-up citizen so let's give him credit for that, go right ahead, I'll even throw in an "Amen!". But don't belittle everything that has come before with a pat "the end justifies the means". It's insulting to those whose lives were never the same after being affected by MS when it was being run by Gates.

    11. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      For a decade I outspent him in charity giving as a percentage of my income and worth. It is great to see him come around and finally give back to the world what the world was so gracious to give to him.


      Just remember, however, that Microsoft has had a long relationship with the United Way since practically Microsofts' inception (due to Bill Gates' mom being on its board of directors), and the company has anually given to that charity for almost three decades.
    12. Re:Charities should go away after a while by goldenpanda · · Score: 1

      It has a lot to do with the relative comparison. Since we, and you, live with much worse things in the world, "anti-competitive software practices" perhaps doesn't deserve all the moral outrage you give to it. Morality is absolutely relative. If you view moral enforcement as a limited resource in society, we are obliged to distribute it proportional to its need. By giving disproportionate mindshare to "software monopolists are bad", we'd be ignoring murder, starvation, slavery and rape, and that would be wrong.

    13. Re:Charities should go away after a while by nsupathy · · Score: 1

      Thats true. Imagine Ellison in place of Gates. Not even 1 cent would have gone for charity without force of course.

      --
      #include std_disclaimer.h
    14. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather have a hundred Microsofts with a Bill at the helm helping the poor than a hundred Larry Ellisons.

      But... then you wouldn't be able to call Microsoft a monopoly.

    15. Re:Charities should go away after a while by Jekler · · Score: 1

      "...Bill Gates != Microsoft..."

      Bill Gates was the head of the company. The company acted at his direction. For all intents and purposes, he is the same as the company. You can't say "The car ran the guy over, the driver didn't."

      You're right, nothing stops Bill Gates from acting like Larry Ellison, but morality is not a profit margin. You don't just tally up the good and bad and see if someone comes out in the black. If I walk around punching people, when someone wants me to be accountable I can't just break out a calculator and say "Look, according to my balance sheet I've only punched 39 people, but I donated food to 57 people so I'm good to go. Thanks for checking in with me though."

  8. Planned obsolescence is a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many of these charities (governments, etc.) become all about servicing the bureaucracy and preserving the status quo than doing whatever the original charter was as they become older.

  9. Let's see... by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bill is evil for having that much money!
    Money is evil for existing!
    He was evil for hording it!
    He's evil for spending it, no matter he spends it on!
    He's evil if he doesn't spend it fast enough!
    He's evil unless he spends it exactly on the things that the most people here who say he's evil can agree that he should spend it on! And even then, he's still evil!
    Children with AIDS shouldn't want to live longer if it means saying they don't care about Windows 98's browser implementation issues!

    Really, why do articles like this even make it here? Bill and Melissa's charitable foundation - which puts all others to shame - is nothing more than a blank canvas on which to paint your already-existing opinion of the man. We might as well put up an article about what brand of corn chips he prefers, since it would result in exactly the same conversation.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Let's see... by volsung · · Score: 1

      Brilliant.... I've been trying to figure out how to phrase this general idea, and you nailed it.

    2. Re:Let's see... by ksalter · · Score: 1

      I agree also, though you must admit that at least the "bill as borg" image was not used on the front page.

    3. Re:Let's see... by undeaf · · Score: 0, Troll
      Really, why do articles like this even make it here?
      Considering how rabidly defensive your post is, and that it was modded up right away, when the summary says nothing critical about the gates foundation or about this move, and if you're absolutely sure that it has to be against microsoft in one way or another, well then, it must be there to show how bad a persecution complex you microsoft fanboys have.
    4. Re:Let's see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As trite as the word "fanboy" has become, thank you sir for at least not spelling it "fanboi."

    5. Re:Let's see... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Considering how rabidly defensive your post is

      Er, no. In fact, if I actually went to any trouble to scrape up the Kill Bill comments that usually come up when discussing him or his wealth or how he's giving it away, the actual quotes would be far more rabid than my hypothetical ones. The rabid reaction, which I'm looking to shame (for once!) into just chilling out, comes like clockwork from his critics here. Everyone here knows it, and anyone choosing from a thousand daily contributions here to post that particular articles knows it and knows that the flamefest is good for page views and advertising revenue. You know it, too.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    6. Re:Let's see... by volsung · · Score: 1

      Oh, upon rereading, I realized that I was agreeing with something more general than most people are seeing. I don't have much of an opinion about Bill Gates, perhaps due to oversaturation generated by reading several-too-many Slashdot threads on the guy. I was more applauding someone putting words to my suspicion as to why threads on topics like these usually degenerate into pointlessness.

      Let me generalize the original poster's statement: Facts and events are just a blank canvas upon which we paint our pre-existing opinions. Once you grasp the basics of the subject being discussed, most comments you read will teach you more about the person posting them than the topic itself.

      Once stated that way, it seems painfully obvious. Nevertheless, I often forget it while idly sifting through posts, looking for something interesting, and getting annoyed with ridiculous comments that twist an innocuous statement into "proof" of some talking point. I should just accept it as a natural and normal product of our psychology. :)

      (I leave it as an exercise to the reader to recursively apply the principle to this post as well.)
    7. Re:Let's see... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      (I leave it as an exercise to the reader to recursively apply the principle to this post as well.)

      Ah hah! A challenge! But first, let me talk about the idealogy that leads you to your comment...

      But seriously, you're right, and thanks for getting my larger point. It's especially true when in comes to more polarizing topics like Bill.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    8. Re:Let's see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did this stupid generalization got modded insightful? Look at the comments. Lots of people have changed their view of Bill Gates exactly becouse of his charity work. People who would otherwise despise him. Some didn't. Well that's the way it works here. Or anywhere else.

    9. Re:Let's see... by LordEd · · Score: 1

      He eats corn chips? Evil!!!!!

    10. Re:Let's see... by peterpi · · Score: 1

      I agree. I read as far as this comment, and I know I don't have to read further.

    11. Re:Let's see... by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I've seen plenty of reasonable comments discussing the pros and cons of a charitable foundation with a built-in expire time (an interesting and newsworth idea). In fact, yours was the first comment I ran across that was modded up and was a one-sided, emotional attack. If anybody is projecting, it's you.

  10. Fair play by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Informative

    For all the crap he gets here, its never been about the money with Bill. He lives in relative modesty for his income and has always maintained that his kids would only inherit a small portion of his wealth with the bulk to be used for charitable causes.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:Fair play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no doubt that he's doing a good thing with his philanthropy, and it certainly is a lot more than most wealthy people do.

      However, when you have that much money, does a few billion really make any difference? He could give away 99% of his assets and still have more than what most people have. Sure, he's doing a good thing, but he's not doing so much that he actually needs to make sacrifices to do it. He has the luxury of being able to give that much away without consequence to himself. (A "small portion" of his wealth is still in the millions.)

    2. Re:Fair play by mephistophyles · · Score: 1

      I agree that it's never really been about the money with him, and kudos to him for that, but to say he lives in relative modesty (my beef is with the word relative) is going a tad far. He has put a large portion of his assets into his fund, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have any for himself, and who could blame him, it's HIS money afterall. However, happening upon an edition of MTV's cribs with Mr. Gates' home on it, I doubt that could be called modest compared to most people's homes. Just type in 'Bill Gates home' in google and you'll see what I mean. All this has nothing to do with how he spends his money, I personally believe he should invest more in something more along the lines of sustainable energy like nuclear fusion as opposed to HIV/AIDS, because this way he funds an advancement of science, which benefits mankind in the long run. But hey, that's me and I have no say in where the money goes, so what does it really matter, just wanted to point out that Mr. Gates lives pretty luxuriously, as well he may, he did earn the money (one way or other).

    3. Re:Fair play by DarkSarin · · Score: 1

      I think the point is that he could live much more extravagantly than he does. He could have built a house the size of the Biltmore Estate, and done some really crazy stuff, but he didn't. Yes, his house is expensive and more than most of use will ever come close to--but that doesn't mean it's even in the running for the nicest house on the planet.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    4. Re:Fair play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      " to say he lives in relative modesty (my beef is with the word relative) is going a tad far."

      Bill Gates
      _____

      Approximate net worth: $46 billion
      Cost of home: $97 million

      His home is about 1/470th of his net worth.

      Jennifer Lopez
      _____

      Approximate net worth: $255 million
      Cost of her Miami home, now sold: $11 to $14 million, depending on who you listen to. Let's take $11 million to make her look less ridiculous.

      Her home was 1/23rd of her net worth.

      This is why people say Gates lives modestly relative to his worth. If he'd spent like J. Lo, his home would have cost 2 billion. I don't know what you'd build with that. A marble pyramid?

    5. Re:Fair play by pherthyl · · Score: 1

      You say he gets a lot of flak, but I don't really see it. Most of the (not modded into oblivion) comments I see praise him as being a shrewd businessman. Microsoft gets a lot of flak, but that is completely different. He's not even in charge there anymore.

      As for relative modesty and relative generosity, Warren Buffet still has him beat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffet

    6. Re:Fair play by value_added · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For all the crap he gets here, its never been about the money with Bill. He lives in relative modesty for his income and has always maintained that his kids would only inherit a small portion of his wealth with the bulk to be used for charitable causes.

      Sigh. More crap.

      Why would you assume it has to be about money? Most all of the old time mob dons lived in modest circumstances. Come to think of it, many of the newer ones do as well. Child abusers generally love kids, and they also like living in nice neighbourhoods. John Wayne Gacy enjoyed his meals, rapists can enjoy sex, and there's many a loving father and mother out there that regularly beat their kids.

      As for Bill, I don't consider it a stretch for anyone to conclude that for him, it's always been about control. The money is secondary, but serves validate his position. And what's in his will for the kids is of little bearing. Personally, I think it's A Good Thing that he contributes to worthy causes and engages in philanthropy (what the hell else is he going to do with all the cash and the free time he now has on his hands), but it's fair game to offer criticism with respect to his past and present actions. Put another way, I still think he should go fuck himself.

      So now that we're clear that something not being about money can still be A Bad Thing, I'm left wondering about the financial aspects of the decision. The "puts a lot of money back into circulation that otherwise would just be sitting there earning income" summary sounds a bit simplistic, given that lots of foundations started by other monopolists are around and kicking, contributing to the general benefit of society. If they all spent their money at once, who's left to fund anything?

    7. Re:Fair play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Me
      _____

      Approximate net worth: $100 Thousand
      Cost of home: $200 Thousand

      My home is about double of my net worth.

      Horrible comparison. The less money you earn the greater percentage of income that goes towards your primary residence.

    8. Re:Fair play by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      You're only talking about the house we know about, he does have a $2bn Home as well; It's a secret lair under a volcano, or maybe his own Island...

      Well, I'd build at least on of those things if I had $46bn ;)

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    9. Re:Fair play by t-twisted · · Score: 1

      My approx net worth: $500,000
      Cost of my home: $380,000

      My home is 75% of my net worth! That's right! I spend it all on the house! I've got a gold front door with a 4-story foyer and I breed real gnomes, none of that statue crap, who do nothing but stand out in the garden!

      I can't furnish it.. and my refrigerator is bare.. but I got DA BLING! I spend more of my income on housing than even Bill Gates, that's how FAT my life is!

      Can't get any more ridiculous than me!

      T.

    10. Re:Fair play by mephistophyles · · Score: 1

      I see your point, and I agree, but I was just trying to point out that when someone says 'relatively modest', it could be interpreted as he lives in a two bedroom apartment somewhere, and that that doesn't exactly come close to reality. I was just trying to clarify the comment. But Biltmore Estate is pretty neat, it has some nifty features, such as personal climate control depending on where you are in the house.

    11. Re:Fair play by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

      >You say he gets a lot of flak, but I don't really see it. Most of the (not modded into oblivion) comments I see praise him as being a shrewd businessman.

      In what bizzaro, reverse universe do you read slashdot?

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    12. Re:Fair play by inKubus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, as the president and CEO, he could have a few minutes alone with the gold software precompile and put whatever he wanted into it, and no one there could stop him.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    13. Re:Fair play by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      Having read Hard Drive, one of his more popular autobiographies (which I didn't detect any bias in whatsoever), I got the impression that Bill Gates' parents, and his girlfriend at the time whose name I forget, pushed him to start spending his money charitably. I'll see if I can locate the passage..

      I can't, maybe someone else knows where it is. Even if it's true this doesn't mean Gates isn't a very generous person of course (ruthless and generous perhaps).

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    14. Re:Fair play by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Bill. He lives in relative modesty for his income and has always maintained that his kids would only inherit a small portion of his wealth with the bulk to be used for charitable causes.

      Bill Gates home is worth in excess of $125 million. Modest by Saudi Royal standards, perhaps. As for what he leaves his children, that's just talk and yu can believe it if you want. At a minimum they'll still be richer than 99.999% of humanity.

    15. Re:Fair play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Jeez, when is anything relating to Bill Gates ever going to be good enough on the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is /.?

      However, when you have that much money, does a few billion really make any difference?
      What's going to make a difference is not how much money he has, but how much he gives away. AIDS research will benefit just as much from $5bn whether it comes from someone who is worth $10bn or $50bn.

      Sure, he's doing a good thing, but he's not doing so much that he actually needs to make sacrifices to do it.
      Yes, Mr. Einstein, it's called giving to charity for a reason. You also won't ever give away so much money to charity that you'll have to skip lunch for the next 5 years. Get some perspective and respect the man for all he has done. Other so-called icons like Steve Jobs, or Linus Torvalds, who /.-ers line up to give oral sex to, have been conspicuous by their lack of involvement in charity and humanitarian causes.
    16. Re:Fair play by DarkSarin · · Score: 1

      Fair enough.

      I also suppose that while I'm living in the area (roughly--I'm in SC), I should visit the Biltmore Estate.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    17. Re:Fair play by pherthyl · · Score: 1

      Find me a modded up (4 or 5) post that bashes Bill Gates then.

    18. Re:Fair play by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1
      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  11. Bill Gates Assassinated By African Assassin by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Funny
    Suspect says: we want our money now! (Dateline Redmond, WA January 2007)

    -b.

  12. Why. by OrangeStar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This move makes perfect sense. Many people will argue that they should save and spread the money out, spending the interest. But this idea is going to spend the money on infastructure, research, food, whatever. The interest will be the results of the action. It doesn't make sense to save for the future when there are problems to be solved today.

    --
    This .sig was pirated on BitTorrent, costing the MPAA millions of dollars.
    1. Re:Why. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can only agree with this. Nicely said.

  13. lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His kids must be pissed off.

  14. What I think Bill Should Do by ThomasFlip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is build renewable energy infrastructure. With 50+ billion, you could put a huge dent on fossil fuel burning, help curb global warming, and even make some money. Yeah I think aids and the rest is bad, but there won't be any aids to treat around equitorial regions if nobody is living there anymore! 50+ billion builds a lot of solar/nuclear/wind/tidal power.

    --
    If the dollar is an "I owe you nothing", then the Euro is a "Who owes you nothing." - Doug Casey
    1. Re:What I think Bill Should Do by Sinbios · · Score: 1, Troll

      Yes, he should improve the lives of people already relative well off by spending millions on issues only rich people worry about, while people in third world countries die of common diseases that can be cured with $0.2's worth of medicine.

      --
      Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
    2. Re:What I think Bill Should Do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. The effects of climate change are likely to fall disproportionately on the third world

      2. Providing energy (via renewables) to the third world would enable them to better their lives in a number of ways

      Ideally dealing with AIDS, Malaria AND climate change would be the best all-round solution.

    3. Re:What I think Bill Should Do by Boreras · · Score: 1

      By helping investing greener energy, the bad energy will get cheaper, resulting in cheaper energy for those third-world countries, but that isn't the point. It's about when those third world countries finally get richer, by increasing health, and those who have AIDS will be capable of buying medicine on their own, there is a good solution for long-term energy, and not a world that doesn't have enough energy to provide all, which will result in the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. It will help those people long-term, but yeah, it will also help us, or we will all be running Sun extra-cheap-on-energy computers! That's what I think at least.

    4. Re:What I think Bill Should Do by maxume · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Cheap energy costs about $1000/KW (yeah, yeah, $1/W, but the quotes are all in KW) to install, so $50 billion translates into about 50 GW of power, a huge number no doubt. To put it in perspective, the most recent estimate a bit of googling spits out for yearly, worldwide energy consumption is 338 exajoules, which about 11000 Gigawatt-Years. That's a really huge number.

      Given that $50 billion represents about 2 days worth of economic activity in the US alone, it isn't real important what they do with this particular $50 billion, especially in relation to a task as monumental as providing energy for a global civilization.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:What I think Bill Should Do by sakusha · · Score: 4, Informative
      Is build renewable energy infrastructure.

      Funny you should mention that. He's doing just the opposite. Gates just bought 10% of PNM Resources, a gas and electric utility in Arizona. They don't do renewable energy.

      Gates also owns major portions of Home Depot, Canadian National Railway Co, Republic Services (a garbage hauling company), several TV networks, Four Seasons Hotels, Berkshire Hathaway, and several Big Pharmaceutical companies. This is not the profile of an enlightened investor. These are the investments any Robber Baron would make to diversify his holdings.

      Keep your eye on Cascade Investments LLC, that's Gates' personal holding company. He's still building his personal fortune, leveraging his monopoly into more areas.
    6. Re:What I think Bill Should Do by maeka · · Score: 1
      With 50+ billion, you could put a huge dent on fossil fuel burning

      A ~7% tax on imported oil would raise equal amounts of money every year in the United States while having the added benefit of reducing consumption today.
    7. Re:What I think Bill Should Do by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If green issues were his thing, he could have doe something pretty big about CO2 a long time ago for virtually no cost. He could have made the energy saving sleep options in Windows either default or even mandatory. Think of all those tons of CO2 produced by PCs around the world being on but unused for 2/3rds of the day plus weekends.

  15. Good, but why buy Newspapers Today? by twitter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's great to see them want to spend ALL of their money on charity and that they will liquidate their assets to do so. A cynical person might say that any large pile of money will attract people more interested in themselves than the charity's mission. Making the organization spend them money will insure the money goes to the immediate purpose.

    Given such intents, it's strange to see the foundation money spent buying independent newspapers. The Contra Costa Times and the San Jose Mercury News don't seem to have much to do with AIDS.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Good, but why buy Newspapers Today? by spectecjr · · Score: 1

      Given such intents, it's strange to see the foundation money spent buying independent newspapers. The Contra Costa Times and the San Jose Mercury News don't seem to have much to do with AIDS.

      Although I have no idea why they're doing it, if I had a foundation, I might buy a few independent newspapers so that we at least have a couple of independent companies left to provide the news. They're all getting bought up by Tribune media, Rupert Murdoch and Knight-Ridder.

      --
      Coming soon - pyrogyra
    2. Re:Good, but why buy Newspapers Today? by twitter · · Score: 1

      if I had a foundation, I might buy a few independent newspapers so that we at least have a couple of independent companies left to provide the news.

      If you buy them, they are no longer independent.

      If you were Bill Gates, you would already own a lot of media outlets.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    3. Re:Good, but why buy Newspapers Today? by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1
      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    4. Re:Good, but why buy Newspapers Today? by Too+Many+Secrets · · Score: 0

      Which ones does he own? The MSDN newsletter doesn't count.

    5. Re:Good, but why buy Newspapers Today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NBC.

    6. Re:Good, but why buy Newspapers Today? by Too+Many+Secrets · · Score: 0

      If you're referring to the National Broadcasting Corporation, then no. GE owns 80%, Vivendi owns 20%.

  16. Save 100 lives today, or one a year for 100 years? by MDMurphy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you could save 100 lives today, wouldn't that be better than saving 1 a year for 100 years? While it's not sure that spending all the money now gets you 100x the benefit, holding back money for the sake of keeping the foundation going isn't necessarily increasing the benefit.

    A lot depends on what your target charities are. If you're funding protection for farmers who have bad seasons, then spending it all now isn't going to prevent future bad seasons and will only provide a temporary relief. If your target is a cure or immunization for AIDS then achieving that goal as quickly as possible with the funds available would warrant not holding back.

    Putting the benefit you hope to achieve first, above the life of the foundation, seems to be more true to the goals of a foundation.

  17. give it back to registered customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    after all, it's their money.
    So, give it back Mr. Gates.

    Actually, I don't think he should give it back, because the Gates foundation can probably do more good with it.
    However, I thought I'd throw that line in there, as it is exactly the same line the Republicans used against Bill Clinton when he turned the deficit into a surplus ("give it back Mr. President" were the exact words of one GOP idiot congresswoman who conveniently forgot that the President didn't have the power to do that, while her own GOP controlled congress did).

  18. Idiotic Foundations by Baldrson · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Any rich guy who leaves his money in a foundation rather than in escrow for a set of objective prize awards, such as the X-Prize, has no recognition of the failed history of foundations.

    Hell, the folks at the Ford Foundation are proud of the fact that they call Henry Ford "the grave spinner".

    Indeed, the Gates Foundation is probably already failing to get the results they should because their failure to use objective criteria for prize awards creates a systemic malincentive: rewarding proposal writing rather than getting real results.

    1. Re:Idiotic Foundations by Helios1182 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if this is a troll or not. His foundation does get results, and requires them in order to continue receiving funds. Gates is a shrewd businessman, he isn't wasting his wealth. If people want the money the have to prove they can use it effectively.

    2. Re:Idiotic Foundations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, the folks at the Ford Foundation are proud of the fact that they call Henry Ford "the grave spinner".

      I'm glad they're not spending the money on death camps for the Jews. After all, that sounds like the sort of thing ol' Hank would have wanted.

  19. Re:Save 100 lives today, or one a year for 100 yea by Sinbios · · Score: 0, Troll

    Well, when you have THAT much money, it generates a lot of interest. Like the Nobel. So a better analogy would be saving 100 people today, or 10 people a year forever.

    --
    Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
  20. Phew! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    what [Rich People] ultimately [do] with [their] wealth is more important than where it came from or how [they] got started building the wealth.


    So my inherited family fortune originally built on slavery and then bootlegging is finally respectable now! Thank a god!

    Oh wait, it's always been respectable, hasn't it.

    That's the thing about wealth in America: nobody cares how you got it just so long as you got it.
    1. Re:Phew! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but you are poor. And a liar.

    2. Re:Phew! by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      So my inherited family fortune originally built on slavery and then bootlegging is finally respectable now! Thank a god!

      Oh wait, it's always been respectable, hasn't it. Sounds like an average member of the British aristocracy, except until recently they also got an inherited seat in the legislature (The house of Lords). They no longer get an automatic peerage, but they still have their wealth

      That's the thing about wealth in America: nobody cares how you got it just so long as you got it. As I explained above, it's not just that way in the over there States, it's the same all over the world, from here in the UK, to corrupt officials in third world governments.
      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
  21. Re:Never forget. by bheer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, because we all know Bill's money is stained with ill-gotten gains from drugs, gun-running or carcinogenic products. Not. Sometimes you *can* carry a metaphor too far, but all I see it stained by is the egos of several Silicon Valley types who couldn't compete with hard-edged marketing. Frankly, I think the Silicon Valley types will survive the humiliation.

  22. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  23. R.I.C.O. Gates' Ill-gotten Gains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    R.I.C.O. He stole the money from us. Don't forget it!

  24. What, Gates is suddenly ethical? Don't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out Microsoft's wrongdoing: http://malfy.org/

  25. Watch my left hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... while my right hand takes your wallet.

  26. responsible spending? by amigabill · · Score: 1

    Can that amount of money be spent responsibly in that amount of time? I hope it all gets used for research and the good stuff, not fluffed on new carpeting for the lab offices because there isn't enough useful equipment or scientists to spend it on...

    1. Re:responsible spending? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can that amount of money be spent responsibly in that amount of time?

      Give it to my wife ;-)

    2. Re:responsible spending? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said "Responsible" ;)

  27. I've got a vote for you now... by Thaidog · · Score: 1

    That must have hurt.

    --

    ||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.

  28. Mwaha by teknokracy · · Score: 4, Funny

    So wait.... we have to kill Bill and Melinda to speed up the process??

  29. Repent! Repent! by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    and sin no more!

    Bad new for you Bill, there is no heaven.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  30. Now that "Profit! isn't the final frontier anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Found hueg billion-dollar company
    2. Get massive profit
    3. ????
    4. Philantropy!

  31. Yes, you did have a choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Literally.

  32. Wrong by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    Most of their money came from governments. Government departments spend fantastic amounts of money on software - hundreds of millions per year, per state. Now guess where that money comes from.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  33. Re:Save 100 lives today, or one a year for 100 yea by DrKyle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They aren't out to save people, they're out to save humanity. If they can do it sooner, rather than later, isn't that better for everybody?

  34. Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let's have some more illegal monopolies then! It's good for the world!

  35. Wise Move:Foundations Often Violate Founder Intent by Nova+Express · · Score: 3, Insightful
    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

  36. Debate? by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

    Debate? What debate? You mean to tell me that there are people out there debating whether or not philanthropy is a good thing?

    The mind boggles...

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  37. And those Google guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People keeps complaints about Bill Gates this and that, but I dont see those
    Google founders guys contribute to world health or any charitable foundations.

    Too me the Googles founders guys are real stinker

    1. Re:And those Google guys by MLease · · Score: 1

      How do you know they're not contributing anonymously? Some people believe that doing so is more noble than trumpeting their benevolence to the world.

      -Mike

      --
      I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
    2. Re:And those Google guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no way to give away $1.75 billion a year anonymously, the surge of funds shows up all over the place.

    3. Re:And those Google guys by MLease · · Score: 1

      Where? Tax returns? The IRS won't disclose them. The funds appear, but there are many anonymous donors who give money to many charitable institutions, and it would take some serious effort to track down the sources. Who would do that, and what would be the point of doing so? -Mike

      --
      I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
    4. Re:And those Google guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You bet the Googles founders will call the newspapers and inform of a press release that they contribute billions to some worthy charity. But so far, not a single dime. Read the local San Jose Mercury News, and you don't see Google founders contribute a dime to any charity event.

      Like I say, Google founders are real STINKO

  38. Let's hear your alternative. by jpellino · · Score: 1

    OK, I'll call.
    To paraphrase David Kearns, no more prizes for rants, prizes only for solutions.
    How would you solve the problem you perceive?
    No time machines involved.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
    1. Re:Let's hear your alternative. by Surt · · Score: 1

      MS and Bill Gates could offer all the money they still have based on the exploitation of their OS monopoly back to the consumers they hurt. Problem solved.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  39. Amazing generosity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SO thats 1.75billion of Windows and office licences per year? Wow! How generous they are!

    And I guess that means vista and office will be given away in 2009 instead of xp/o2k3... what a shame. If only we could be using xp forever...

  40. What a fantastic and sensationalist headline. by Zorque · · Score: 1

    Of course they're going to spend all their money eventually, because eventually (after their deaths, like the story says), Bill will stop being able to make big bucks for the charity. Unless they slow down their spending, of course, but from the sound of the article they have no intention of doing that. And why would they? "We have less money, so let's give less away." That hardly sounds like something a charity would say.

    Next on /.: "World is going to end!"
    Yeah, eventually.

    1. Re:What a fantastic and sensationalist headline. by Valar · · Score: 1

      You shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about. How charitable foundations/trusts typically work is that they take a huge wad of cash and invest it. This investment makes a rate of return (essentially interest). The foundation then spends the interest. This allows foundations to exist essentially in perpetuity (witness Ford and Rockefeller). The disadvantage is that since the revenue generated by the investment is much smaller than the amount of the generating assets, the foundation can't spend as much as if it just straightforwardly spent all of its assets. This is Bill's strategy-- he wants to make a big impact sooner rather than later, at the cost of not being able to do a little bit each year forever.

  41. Never going to happen by dangitman · · Score: 1

    The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has said it will spend all its assets within 50 years of both of them dying.

    Bill Gates is a cyborg, and he will assimilate Melinda. How can you kill that which has no life? This is just a clever ruse to make people think he is a mortal human.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  42. Technological Investment by SonicSpike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Personally, if it were me, I would invest my wealth in technology. Technology and innovation usually pays back to society an order of magnitude, or more, over time. Look at the money invested by the likes of Edison and Westinghouse and Bell over the turn of the last century. Also look at the return dollar for dollar spent on things like the Apollo program.

    The only humanitarian type of place I would spend my money however might be on meritorious/aptitude scholarships. I don't believe on giving anyone anything without some sort of effort/meet-me-part-way on their end, as that tends to enable poor choices and unproductive behavior. It's the old fish vs teach to fish quip.

    --
    Libertas in infinitum
  43. ATTENTION ADMINS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Would you please prevent the person who modded the parent Troll from getting mod points again? There are some other earnest posts in this story's discussion which were also unfairly modded Troll or Flamebait, and I suspect it was the same person.

  44. Continuing Debate.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish there was a continuing pulic debate over whether corporations should live forever.
    Why not put a 50 year lifetime on companies, then when their time is up you could...hmm..actaully that's kinda tricky, what would you do with the assets of the company? Allow it to live but evenly redistribute the shares between all the citizens of the nation the company is from? Change the company into a non-profit organisation? I dont know. Im glad i decided to post this anonymously.

  45. Yeah, Right by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 0, Troll

    More proof that Gates is using this Foundation as a stock laundering scheme and influence peddling. After he croaks he couldn't care less if it continues on. I'm just surprised he isn't using the money to find a way to live forever (a laudable goal for anyone else) - apparently he doesn't have the imagination.

    This is merely another PR move.

    Move along. Nothing to see here.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    1. Re:Yeah, Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mods may call this a troll, but it's more true than you think. Why do you think a lot of corporations and wealthy people give to charities? So they can dump their wealth into a tax dodge or otherwise beneficial situation so they will not be punished for their wealth.

      It's all about the rich getting richer, or at least staying at about the same level of richness. While he may be partially sincere about it, if you truly think Bill Gates does this 100% out of kindness... sorry.

      Since I'm responding to a modded troll post, I'll protect my karma.

  46. Why not invest where research costs LESS?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really think that the Gates Foundation ought to consider investing
    in research, etc. in places where costs are less & result efficiency
    might well be significantly better [than in USA}, ie, if they aren't
    already doing so...

    Some of the work might be done more cost-effectively where costs are
    low (eg, due to lower wage-rates), and - having met some pretty ded-
    icated grad-students from non-US lands - I wouldn't be surprised if
    many of them would be excellent choices for researchers - in their
    own countries - ie, if Foundation funding could be used to build ex-
    cellent, purpose-built lab's & pay their salaries, etc.

    Australia may also have some good minds about the place, to be put
    to work on Foundation research problems, ie, right here, in Oz.

    If the purpose is to get some results that will make AIDS a thing of
    the past, ie, rather than just spending all of the Foundation's $'s,
    let's see it put Globalization to the test here & see what happens.

    After all, a large portion of the $'s came from non-US sales of MS's
    products & services...

    What'cha think?

    PS On the other hand, there may be limits to the above idea...

    I once attended a University of South Australia (Mawson Lakes)
    "Open Day" during which senior-year engineering students - most
    from overseas (and - of that portion - most, apparently, Asian).

    After the persentations & our tours & Q&A's of students' project
    work, there was a session - for the students - promoting graduate
    study at Uni SA. I stayed around for the promo presentation to
    the (mostly Asian) students...

    I was SHOCKED to hear Uni SA "recruiters" suggest that - even if
    these fine students didn't have creative research ideas of their
    own - they were still welcome to sign-up for graduate programs,
    as the Australian professors had plenty of ideas & projects for
    the students to work on during their graduate study periods...

    Correct me - if it seems wrong - but I, for one, found that kind
    of talk insulting to the students and to Uni SA; it smelled like
    "come be cheap labor" for Aussie research projects.

    I don't recall hearing anything like that in N Amer as I was on
    the look-out for a suitable grad school to apply my talents at,
    & I doubt if these Asian students were terribly impressed by the
    implication that they might not "have research-worthy ideas" of
    their own to investigate...

  47. Something we don't know here? by geobeck · · Score: 1

    Hmm... the summary says that the foundation will spend all of its money within 50 years of Bill and Melinda dying. The headline says the foundation will spend all of its money within 50 years.

    Does someone know something that Bill and Melinda don't?

    --
    Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    1. Re:Something we don't know here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Hmm... the summary says that the foundation will spend all of its money within 50 years of Bill and Melinda dying. The headline says the foundation will spend all of its money within 50 years.

      Does someone know something that Bill and Melinda don't?


      It's unlikely that they'll live for 100 more years; therefore, 50 years from now is most likely within 50 years of their deaths. ;-)

      H2H
    2. Re:Something we don't know here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck are you talking about?

    3. Re:Something we don't know here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What the [censored] are you talking about?


      The true definition of "within" is as follows: X is within Y of Z if abs (X - Y) = Z. I'm pointing out that abs(2006 + 50 - gates.year_of_death) = 50, regardless of whether gates.year_of_death is 2006 or 2106. The only way the inequality could be false is if gates lives past 2107. Therefore, if the foundation decides to to spend all its money by 2056, then it will still meet the "within 50 years" of the Gates' deaths.
    4. Re:Something we don't know here? by winomonkey · · Score: 1

      Actually, FTFA, the money will be spent within 50 years of the death of the last trustee. Even if Bill and Melinda die tomorrow, the third trustee (who happens to be in his mid-seventies) will have to die before the clock starts ticking on the Gates' Foundation's Self-Destruct mechanism. However, given the delays in shipping Vista, we might manage to milk a couple hundred of years from the foundation before it explodes.

  48. Money vs Wealth. by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Well, Spanish dollars go for $150+ on eBay. Not bad for a coin that used to be just a dollar. Ancient Drachma are also worth many times what they were in the past. However, that is irrelevant. When money is invested, it isn't stored as coinage anymore. It is stored as precious metals, real estate, and other assets. When these are cashed out, they are cashed out in the currency of the day.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  49. Damn by alexjohnc3 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I was hoping Bill Gates would spend a lot of his money in research for increasing longevity. I guess he's planning on dying at an average age then...

  50. So even that out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subtract $500,000 from the cost of J. Lo's and Bill Gates' houses. The resulting price will reflect how much they are spending on luxury, above and beyond the ordinary housing requirements for a north american family.

    Oh, wait. That doesn't change anything.

    1. Re:So even that out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Subtract $500,000 from the cost of Warren Buffett's house in Omaha ($500,000). The resulting price will reflect how humble Buffett lives compared to his means.

      wow.

  51. Stealing? by Poromenos1 · · Score: 1

    Doing some good with the money you stole from people doesn't make up for the stealing.

    Last time I checked, MS hadn't taken from me any money that I didn't want to give them.

    --
    Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
    1. Re:Stealing? by Surt · · Score: 1

      That's great for you. It's not true for a lot of people.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  52. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Translation: The Gates' kids are idiots.

  53. Pro-competition? by benhocking · · Score: 1

    I know it might be crazy considering the word "Gates" here, but perhaps he's thinking that with an organization doling out > $1 billion a year, other would-be philanthropists might actually be less inclined to start new foundations? Perhaps there's an understanding that part of the reason behind some people's philanthropy is the need to be the "biggest" donor.

    On one hand, having this foundation in perpetuity might create a very high bar that would only push such "competition" even higher. On the other hand, it might be seen as such an impossibly high bar that it ends up stifling "competition".

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  54. Won't happen by acordes · · Score: 1

    I don't think this will happen. Running a large foundation like this can be a very lucrative business. Whoever is running it after the Gateses die has a very large monetary incentive to never let the money run dry. Why give away all the money when you know it will force you to find another job?

    1. Re:Won't happen by Copid · · Score: 1

      I think that in this case, the answer to that is because it would be against the law to do otherwise. I'm pretty certain that the foundation will have it built into the charter, and I'm also pretty sure that the charter will offer no way of changing that provision without an executive order from Bill himself.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
  55. The future is great but... by SuperStretchy · · Score: 1

    People seem to be forgetting that the Gates Foundation has already given away over $13B- which does not include the personal contributions he's made.

    His business practice might have been shady at some points (as per the anti-Microsoft viewpoint of most /. readers it seems), but he, despite physical appearance, is not the character Gary Winston from "Antitrust".

  56. fuck you - we're in it for the tax break by danske+url · · Score: 1

    i haven't read all the comments, but i'm betting/ hoping that a good portion of them say "we're in it for the tax write off - and nothing more" in short regardless of the cause, we lent you the money, if you didn't get a result fuck you! you're not entitled to the tax break for as long as we are and no more. cheers bill, whatever problems you caused, we're really grateful you chipped in with your help.

  57. Re:Wise Move:Foundations Often Violate Founder Int by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

    Using the word "liberal" like a dirty word, and ranting about "foundation-running elites" and Air America makes you sound a bit crazy and detracts from an otherwise valid point.

    You might want to seek counseling about that anger problem you have.

  58. Cynical view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cynic in me thinks yb helping children with AIDS (1) MS wants more people in the world to make a bigger market for their monopoly and (2) MS wants more people that are healthy and educated, so they can get a cheaper labor force.

    I would have been MUCH less cynical if they had started their charitable activities when they were a young company. This is always a peril when you wait too long to be charitable.

    Also, they are called Robber Barons for no reason.

    -srr

  59. if only this would set a trend.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Companies are too preoppupied with gaining shares, sueing others, and keeping their business intact. if we 'ALL' donated atleast 15 dollars toward charity instead of thinking of ourselfs with buying useless material such video games, box of condoms, candy, whatever, it's all about being charitable and caring, not how much money, materialist shit you have..

    and if you think you got it bad.. look at people who literrally live in their own shit.christmas is coming donate/give back something!

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/18/secret.santa.ap/i ndex.html

  60. Funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't recall seeing any stairways to Heaven on eBay.

    I'd rather Bill apologized for being a greedy scumbag, gave back the money to all the people he stole it from, and promise never to do it again. Until then, he's no better than a punk who shoots a pregnant mother while carjacking.

  61. Bill who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought it was called the Stephen & Melinda Gates Foundation.

  62. Umm, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The one and only thing I have against the man is what is company has done and is doing. I do NOT blame him merely for being rich or anything like that. Granted, I'm also not impressed by the size of the donations because they do not represent any large sacrifice, but I do acknowledge that he's doing better in terms of being charitable than many rich people are.

    But being rich isn't evil, although too often the way people become rich is.

  63. Corporate Buddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Id like to see the list of who they are giving money to .. I bet it somehow goes to his corporate buddies .. Like the pharmaceutical complex..

  64. Robin Hood by mpcooke3 · · Score: 1

    Yes, I find the whole thing quite interesting.

    Let's say I burgle one house, sell the stuff and use the money to save 3 dieing african children.
    How many houses would i have to burgle to become a saint?

  65. Bill Gates != Microsoft by slapys · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is important here to draw a distinction between the behavior of Bill Gates and the Microsoft corporation. For all intents and purposes, the two are severed. Steve Ballmer is the figurehead of Microsoft now; he has elected to take responsibility for the direction of the corporation, and we should hold him to that responsibility. At this point, Bill Gates is just a wealthy man, and a wealthy man giving a percentage of his money to charitable causes is not unprecedented.

    My point is that I do not believe that Mr. Gates' contribution absolves Microsoft of its unethical business practices, at least since Gates passed executive control of the company to Steve Ballmer. I applaud Bill Gates' contribution, let me make myself clear. It does not, however, give the company an indefinite license to stifle innovation in the software market. While giving to humanitarian causes is a noble gesture, software is important, and will become remain so in the near future.

    For example, consider the field of bioinformatics - the application of the computing sciences and biology to solve complex problems in medicine and related fields. It is possible that innovation in software could produce a cure for AIDS, or cancer, or anything else, just as much as a charitable foundation can. In fact, some of Gates' money could be going to fund research in some of these areas. If the Microsoft corporation continues to vigorously fight to maintain its monopoly and forestall non-Microsoft innovation, then Bill Gates and Microsoft are indeed fighting for opposite causes.

  66. The X Prize is a foundation by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

    >Any rich guy who leaves his money in a foundation rather than in escrow for a set of objective prize awards, such as the X-Prize,

    The X Prize is a foundation.
    http://www.xprizecup.com/go.php?sub=go_xprize_foun dation

    >has no recognition of the failed history of foundations.

    PBS, as one example, is heavily funded by foundations. No "prizes" here. Do you consider PBS part of a long history of failure?

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    1. Re:The X Prize is a foundation by Baldrson · · Score: 1

      Yes, PBS is a case in point. PBS is properly called Propaganda Broadcasting Service.

  67. Re:noooooooooo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the above post, s/=/<=/g.

    note to self: never reply to trolls. :(

  68. Everybody is missing the point by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

    I think that Bill's desire is to avoid Gates foundation turning into a bureauchratic entity that spends more energy on its continuity than on its proposed goals. Bill has seen what almost unlimited money and power can do, for good, and for bad, and don't want to make his foundation a monster to haunt the future. Look at Ford Foundation and Rockfeller Foundation: they mostly fund projects that have more to do with the political views of the administrators than with their original goals. Surelly, if Henry Ford was able to see some of the projects funded by Ford Foundation today, I am pretty sure he would get very, very upset. Not that those projects are wrong or not, but they surely aren't aligned with the original founder goals.

    --
    Your ad could be here!
  69. Gary Kildall. by trudyscousin · · Score: 1

    I'm really certain he'd agree with that. If he were still alive, that is.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
    1. Re:Gary Kildall. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't possibly blame Bill Gates for what happened to Kildall. You can only blame Kildall for that. (He didn't exactly die in poverty, either.)

  70. The Gatesfather III by paniq · · Score: 1

    Keep going Bill, and the Gates family will be legitimate one day!

    --
    Do not trust this signature.
  71. Gates is a smart man by Susceptor · · Score: 1

    he understand the nature of bureaucracy better then anyone. he knows that if his foundation continues to exist indefinitely, it will only stagnate and become just another institution. Putting a time limit on when the money can be spent will allow for a sense of urgency that such organizations need, and it will likely give people who need that help the most bang for their buck since a lot more money can be used to do bigger projects.

    --
    Fool me once...shame on you, fool me twice...won't be fooled again (our president)
  72. Curious? by Theiving+GNerd · · Score: 1

    He is giving to charities and such, does this not merit tax deductions later on in the process at which time he will get back XX% of his money?

  73. Re:Wise Move:Foundations Often Violate Founder Int by daigu · · Score: 1

    Beautiful. You cite Capital Research to back you up. It's an organization "whose stated mission is to do 'opposition research' exposing the funding sources behind consumer, health and environmental groups." I too need to read more Capital Research because of those terrible liberal causes like watching out for consumers and addressing public health issues - like poisons in the environment - are way out of hand. Thank you for bringing this very important research to our attention, my good sir!

    I also like your sense of fair play and objectivity in selecting Michelle Malkin. I much prefer her 2005 perspective rather than this article from 2006 from the liberal spin machine. While we are talking about her ground-breaking research, we should also point out her other important ideas such as her book documenting the important need to bring back Japanese-style internment camps for Arab Americans - which is also coincidentaly based on the cutting-edge research of another person doing important work exposing the myth of the so-called "holocaust".

    I can only applaud the efforts of the Slashdot moderators to make sure that your comments get pushed right to the top. No one should be compelled to go through another day without an awareness of these two fascinating, unbiased sources of good information. As a good conservative, I am finally starting to feel like Slashdot is like a second home.

  74. Bullshit by Baldrson · · Score: 1

    Read the Gates Foundation page on what they're doing about sub Sahara African malaria and then read Plague Time by Paul Ewald describing precisely why none of the approaches used by the Gates Foundation can be really effective against a sexually reproducing, horizontally transmitted pathogen like malaria -- and describing the approach that actually works -- which of course the Gates Foundation can't pursue because none of the grant writers are serious about really stopping the scourge of malaria.

  75. It is convenient you left off Pacific Ethanol by everphilski · · Score: 1
    1. Re:It is convenient you left off Pacific Ethanol by sakusha · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hadn't heard of that one, but I checked it out and PE is literally a drop in the bucket, compared to Gates massive holdings in conventional energy from gas, coal, and nuclear. The PE investment is $84 million, nobody quite knows the full extent of his other energy deals but I read estimates of over $750 million just in this year alone.

    2. Re:It is convenient you left off Pacific Ethanol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Semantic troll: No, it isn't "literally" a drop in the bucket. Only a drop in a bucket is "literally" a drop in the bucket. Gates' holdings in PE might be "essentially" a drop in the bucket or "basically" a drop in the bucket or "just" a drop in the bucket or perhaps merely "a drop in the bucket." But if the sentence doesn't actually involve drops and buckets then it shouldn't be taken "literally".

    3. Re:It is convenient you left off Pacific Ethanol by sakusha · · Score: 1

      Mr. Troll:

      Ethanol is a liquid. $84Million of ethanol is a literal drop in the bucket of Gates' massive holdings of oil and LNG (liquified natural gas).

    4. Re:It is convenient you left off Pacific Ethanol by everphilski · · Score: 1

      Their total equity funding is $184M. That would make Gates a major player...

      http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061127/nym218.html?.v= 49

  76. $3.5B a year? I wish they'd spend $200M on fusion by XNormal · · Score: 1

    That's $200M one time sum, not even $200M a year.

    If what Robert Bussard says is right, that's the investment required for a conclusive proof of concept of his electrostatic confinement fusion reactor. After that there won't be any shortage of commercial investment.

    Imagine a reactor converting boron-11 and hydrogen directly to electricity with no radioactive waste. Too good to be true, you say? What if there's a 10% chance be is right? 1%? Even in this case the investment would have an average social ROI far exceeding most of what the Gates foundation is doing.

    --
    Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
  77. The United way has some serious issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Questions Arise on Accounting at United Way
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/791618/post s

    How much of your donation actually goes to cover salaries and expenses and how much actually goes to help individuals? Nobody actually knows. The fact that they are covering up the numbers with "clever" accounting techniques seems to me to indicate a massive amount of fraud going on.

    Please, just donate directly to local charities, the best bet is to actually contact local community support and directly donate to the ones that can best help the most people.

  78. I'd have thought the 50 years by goldcd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    would be to ensure the foundation doesn't carry on forever, supporting professional trustees and dribbling the interest out bit by bit.
    There are many problems this money can solve now, as Gates seems to realize. Also, if you are embarking on a campaign to erradicate certain diseases, you only need to do it once. In face it's not that you only need to do it once, it's if you did try to do it a bit by bit, you'd never succeed.

  79. Gate Foundation by davro · · Score: 0

    Building such a large foundation is no small task, and it just seems like double standards from Bill.

    Philanthropy is the act of donating money, goods, time, or effort to support a charitable cause, usually over an extended period of time and in regard to a defined objective. In a more fundamental sense, philanthropy may encompass any altruistic activity which is intended to promote good or improve human quality of life. Someone who is well known for practicing philanthropy may sometimes be called a philanthropist.

    Bill is not well known for practicing philanthropy so therefore he is not a philanthropist!

    0) Philanthropy is not always viewed as a universal good. Philanthropy on philosophical grounds, the idea of the weak sponging.
    1) Governments are often supportive of philanthropic efforts. those who donate money to a charity are given a tax break.
    2) Social activists frequently criticize philanthrophic contributions by corporations whom activists consider "suspect". Bill you are most suspect...

  80. Re:Wise Move:Foundations Often Violate Founder Int by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    It's probably not even a valid point, given that he's referring to right wing propagandist sites to make it. This guy is your typical Bill O'Reilly watcher and Rush Limbaugh listener.

  81. Wow. by bottlerocket · · Score: 1

    That has got to be the most cynical post I've ever seen on Slashdot.

    --
    where the comment ends and sig begins
    1. Re:Wow. by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      That has got to be the most cynical post I've ever seen on Slashdot.

      Nope! I'm calling it like I see it. I'm in favor of what he's doing. Who could argue with spending a foundation's money in a way that encourages the underpinnings of a healthy populace and economy? Don't treat the symptoms, treat the problems. The third world has had its symptoms treated for decades, with essentially no improvement. The Gates Foundation is working on the underlying problems. I happily support them. Now, if that's cynical, we have to have a discussion about semantics.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  82. Wait.. rubbish by Sapphon · · Score: 1

    Sorry, just read your post again: you ARE implying that aggreagte consumption (i.e. what a household spends in a year) be taxed.

    That's just totally impractical. How are you going to track that? Businesses have an incentive to report their employees pay, b/c that's an expense for them. Households aren't going to tell you how much they spend, because by understating the amount they get taxed less. Shops can't report it, unless you require ID for every - EVERY - purchase. You can forget about trackable electronic payments: cash will be king, again, for the same reasons that, if you want avoid income nowadays, you do everything with cash.

    Pie in the sky idea mate, sorry.

    --
    Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
    1. Re:Wait.. rubbish by h2_plus_O · · Score: 1
      That's just totally impractical. How are you going to track that? Businesses have an incentive to report their employees pay, b/c that's an expense for them. Households aren't going to tell you how much they spend, because by understating the amount they get taxed less. Shops can't report it, unless you require ID for every - EVERY - purchase. You can forget about trackable electronic payments: cash will be king, again, for the same reasons that, if you want avoid income nowadays, you do everything with cash.
      You're making it more complicated and impractical than it needs to be. It's not as if the only way to do taxes is the way income taxes are done- by tallying up and tracking everything you do and paying later. You don't have to track consumption and pay the bill later, you would pay consumption tax at the point of sale and that (along with a standard rebate) could be your whole relationship to a taxing authority. There's no need to track income if it's not taxable, and there's no need for your employer to track expenses if they're not used to deduct from their income. ...and there's no need for the state to track you personally, to know about your income, or really anything you do if that's not the basis for tax revenue. The only thing that makes *that* necessary is the desire to tax the same behavior differently in different people, based on what they earn or own. THAT is what makes a tax system invasive, complicated, and totally impractical. Not that that has stopped us. Note that in the US, the cost to comply with the tax code is estimated to be near 29% of the revenue it generates.
      --
      If there's one thing I won't stand for, it's intolerance.
    2. Re:Wait.. rubbish by Sapphon · · Score: 1
      You don't have to track consumption and pay the bill later, you would pay consumption tax at the point of sale and that (along with a standard rebate) could be your whole relationship to a taxing authority.


      Interesting... so, like of paying income tax throughout the year and then claiming back expenses to get a tax return, you would pay consumption tax on everything througout the year, but then - rather than proving your consumption level - you are simply given a rebate equal to what has been decided is the level of income that is tax free.

      Problems: unless all items of consumption are taxed at the same rate, the rebate will favour households that consume lower-taxed goods (get same rebate, but have paid less tax).
      What about households that consume less than this rebate amount? That's essentially untargeted welfare, isn't it?
      And business? Do they still get to claim employee pay as an expense? Factor inputs are, after all, that which a company is 'consuming'?
      I think the model needs to be complex, to be fair/just/equitable.

      I reckon there's probably just as many problems with the 'consumption tax' model as there are with the 'income tax' model - the international aspects, my god! Everyone'll be earning in the US and consuming in Canada - and the effort required to implement it would be better spent fixing the model we (a global 'we') have.

      --
      Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
    3. Re:Wait.. rubbish by h2_plus_O · · Score: 1
      You're still trying to make it more complex than necessary.
      rather than proving your consumption level - you are simply given a rebate equal to what has been decided is the level of income that is tax free
      substitute 'consumption' where you said 'income' and you've got it. Peg the rebate level to, say... poverty-level consumption, or poverty-level-index plus $10, or whatever the right tax-free consumption threshold you see fit.
      unless all items of consumption are taxed at the same rate, the rebate will favour households that consume lower-taxed goods (get same rebate, but have paid less tax).
      2 points:
      1) I'd strongly discourage tiering of tax rates, purely for reasons of simplicity. A single flat rate on retail goods would work. Leaving used goods and b-2-b transactions un-taxed would promote efficiency and favor the used goods market, as well as avoid the impossibility of enforcing the tax when you or I try to sell our used video cards.
      2) How is that a problem? No, this is the point- by taxing behavior, rather than particulars about what one earns, we reward value-based judgment, which is good for the economy.
      What about households that consume less than this rebate amount? That's essentially untargeted welfare, isn't it?
      Not untargeted at all- it simply targets behavior, rather than some other factor (for example, income or belt size). This creates the potential for anonymous taxation, and vastly reducing complexity. Consumption correlates much more closely to ability to pay (wealth) than does income, and does not require extensive record-keeping.
      If someone making $500k/yr wants to live at the poverty line and avoid consumption taxes, they'll put their money in the bank or in the market where it'll be used to grow the economy, spurring further economic activity- and in doing so they'll free up not only their own capital, but also the resources they would have consumed. Any way you look at it, it's a win-win if the tax system favors capital formation, savings, and investment over consumption.
      And business? Do they still get to claim employee pay as an expense? Factor inputs are, after all, that which a company is 'consuming'?
      If you tax business, you just create a cascading tax, which is bad for business and raises no 'new' revenue. In a sense, business doesn't pay taxes, it passes the charge along to 3 possible places:
      1) To revenue, in the form of higher prices or lower profits,
      2) to labor, in the form of lower pay for employees, foregone training or fewer employees, and/or
      3) to capital, in the form of foregone investment in infrastructure, equipment, inventory, etc.
      It's estimated that between 22 and 29% of the price of anything you purchase that was made in the U.S. is what it cost your whole supply chain to comply with and pay their taxes. You already pay corporate income tax, it's just cascaded in to the prices of goods you buy.
      For this reason, a single-tiered tax at the end point of retail sales makes sense. Let the tax be expressed as tax, not as a rolled-in-to-the-unit-cost inflation in price.
      I reckon there's probably just as many problems with the 'consumption tax' model as there are with the 'income tax' model - the international aspects, my god! Everyone'll be earning in the US and consuming in Canada - and the effort required to implement it would be better spent fixing the model we (a global 'we') have
      There will undoubtedly be problems to solve, but none of the ones you've presented are nearly as bad or as numerous as the ones we have today. Consume in Canada? Fine. ...but if you bring your Canadian-bought car back to the US you'll pay the consumption tax in the form of an excise. Just like you do today already. I think you're drastically underestimating how bad our current tax system is.
      Consumption taxation is efficient, handled by software built in to cash registers, transparent, easy to understand, far less intrusive than income taxation, and is easy to audit with 4th grade math. Infrastructure for it is already in place.
      --
      If there's one thing I won't stand for, it's intolerance.
  83. Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The epitome of rich guilty white liberal people doing what they do best-- saying their prayers out loud.

  84. GPL, LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking of the GPL, how much money has Lunis Torvalds given to charity?

  85. Party! Party! Party! by Ethelred+Unraed · · Score: 1

    I predict the money will be spent on one mother of a blowout.

    Then all of Bill's misdeeds will be forgiven many times over. :-)

    Cheers,

    Ethelred

    --
    Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
  86. bill gates bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My neices and nephews attend university in southern california. None has seen anything but Microsoft machines, even in their programming classes. I think it says a lot about the monopoly issues. MS/Gates has flooded all the university programs with money, OS, machines--even a lot of their books are from MS press and very MS centric. I am not so sure univeristies should teach things this way.

  87. Waste by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 1

    Well, if I and my homeless-insane clientele consider the aforementioned anthrax to be useful, wouldn't that make me productive? Anthrax is definitely useful for rendering large amounts of land uninhabitable for centuries at a time. I could also spend my time producing pet rocks, or something equally inane. The point is more that productivity is in the eye of the beholder. I would call alternative underground artists productive -- there are definitely lots of people who wouldn't. I would also call producing SUVs counterproductive, since any labour spent producing an SUV could have been better spent producing two conventional automobiles that cost less and are superior in every meaningful way.

  88. OK... by jpellino · · Score: 1

    1. How do you decide who was "hurt"?

    2. How do you find them?

    3. What do you do about the dead ones?

    4. How much will all of the above cost?

    5. What do you tell the people who will now die of common diseases who would have been saved by that money?

    Nothing's as simple as it seems.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
    1. Re:OK... by Surt · · Score: 1

      1. How do you decide who was "hurt"?
      Anyone who bought a computer with an MS OS in a given timeframe.

      2. How do you find them?
      You allow them to come forward to reclaim their money.

      3. What do you do about the dead ones?
      The utterly common legal process: it goes to their descendants if any.

      4. How much will all of the above cost?
      How much does allowing crime and graft to go unremedied cost?

      5. What do you tell the people who will now die of common diseases who would have been saved by that money?
      What do you tell the people who will die of starvation because that money got spent on diseases instead of food distribution work?

      Nothing's as simple as it seems.
      Indeed. Think about it.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    2. Re:OK... by jpellino · · Score: 1

      1. How do you decide who was "hurt"?
      Anyone who bought a computer with an MS OS in a given timeframe.

      How much do they deserve?
      How much more did MS make than they should have?
      Would you include recompence for lost revenues to other OS producers?

      2. How do you find them?
      You allow them to come forward to reclaim their money.

      Based on the rebate or class action settlement model, that's a 50% solution at best.

      3. What do you do about the dead ones?
      The utterly common legal process: it goes to their descendants if any.

      Again, enormous holes in that process. Look at all the unclaimed money in state coffers that people already had control of.

      4. How much will all of the above cost?
      How much does allowing crime and graft to go unremedied cost?

      You didn't answer.

      5. What do you tell the people who will now die of common diseases who would have been saved by that money?
      What do you tell the people who will die of starvation because that money got spent on diseases instead of food distribution work?

      Again, no answer.

      But given that implied choice, you're saving 1 of 2 groups of lives if you pick either medicine or food.
      You're suggesting rebates for MS users vs. saving any of those lives.

      --
      "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  89. It's very smart to plan to zero out the foundation by JoeBackward · · Score: 1

    It's very smart to plan to zero out the foundation in a fixed amount of time.

    Big perpetual foundations attract lots of greedy types. After the demise of the people who established the foundation, it becomes easier for it to lose its way and start focusing on self-perpetuation.

    This announcement by the Gates foundation (which by the way includes the Buffett fortune) shows real unselfishness.

  90. Ends justify the means. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    How wonderful that is.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  91. We knew that, thanks. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    It has always being about power. And we do know what too much power can do to people....

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.