Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Internet2 Turns 10 and Upgrades

Posted by Zonk on from the something-new-gets-old dept.

An anonymous reader writes "As an update to a previous story, Internet2 is celebrating its 10th anniversary in Chicago this week at it's fall conference. In addition, they're announcing the initial stages of their second significant network upgrade of their backbone network. Engineers are providing daily blog updates on the network install process as the old network is transitioned to the new. In addition to changing to a Level3-managed and Internet2-provisioned DWDM transport system for backbone capacity, I2 is implementing a new connection-oriented backbone network based on the Ciena CoreDirector platform in concert with the routed IP network."

84 comments

  1. I'll pass... by Rastignac · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm waiting for Internet3 before upgrading. ;)

    --
    -- Rastignac was here.
    1. Re:I'll pass... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's going to be a fairly expensive upgrade.

    2. Re:I'll pass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Yay for the Internets!

    3. Re:I'll pass... by SirKron · · Score: 1

      No, just Internet2 SP1.

    4. Re:I'll pass... by Bright+Apollo · · Score: 1

      ... I might take a shot on the Ubuntu Internet. I hear it's real purty and revs often.

      -BA

  2. Internet 2 Already by Silas+Palmer-Cannon · · Score: 2, Funny

    And I wasn't even done with the first one!

    1. Re:Internet 2 Already by hockpatooie · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't worry. You can use both the internets. The President has been.

    2. Re:Internet 2 Already by TooFarGone · · Score: 1

      I wonder if the end boss is hard? =p

    3. Re:Internet 2 Already by TA_TA_BOX · · Score: 1

      These damn whipper snappers and their Internet2. Back in my day we didn't have the internet, we had to bang rocks together to communicate.

  3. browser by arifirefox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What I would be interested is: what capabilities a browser should have to fully take advantage of Internet2. You've got the bandwith, what about the client end?

    --
    Firefox Power http://firefoxpower.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:browser by grommit · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not much. I'm at an I2 site and when I do big downloads from other I2 sites, they're noticably faster than from places like Redhat, Novell, etc. Sure, there's some technology in I2 that allows for more reliably low latency connections but you'd be hard pressed to find a web based application that would need that tech that I1 doesn't already serve (provided you're willing to spend the money for your last mile connection of course).

    2. Re:browser by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2

      It's just a fast global network that is currently exclusive to research institutions.

    3. Re:browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What I would be interested is: what capabilities a browser should have to fully take advantage of Internet2. You've got the bandwith, what about the client end?

      It has to be one that you can launch and that allows you to type in URL's, or click on links. Oh, it already does that, well then, you're all set.

      To be a little less snarky, in order for your organization to take advantage of I2, you have to have a router that connects to it, that's all. I work at a major research university in Silicon Valley, and we have both a regular, commercial internet connection, and a couple I2 connections. Whether or not I use I2 depends on our border router routing tables and how they understand what is the best way of getting to a particular off-campus site. Everything's the same to me, and I2 isn't necessarily faster for everything, it just usually is. Usually, the only way to know if I'm using I2 vs. commercial internet (except for the obvious stuff, like connecting to MIT or UCLA, etc.) is to do a traceroute. We (I'm in the networking group) get a lot of requests for "connecting my department to Internet 2" and I do my best not to ask "what's it worth?" because, of course, everyone's connected to I2 by virtue of being connected to the campus network.

    4. Re:browser by arifirefox · · Score: 1

      fully take advantage...I would think implies different network code, perhaps codecs. Why settle for mp3's and flash video when you could have streaming dvd quality video and audio?

      --
      Firefox Power http://firefoxpower.blogspot.com/
    5. Re:browser by Sal+Zeta · · Score: 1

      ..Or Better the opportunity to deploy tor/freenet servers with no noticeable effects on the connection.

      <rant>

      I always wonder why these people, or whoever else for them, aren't trying to deploy something more resistant to "external attacks"...I mean, actually seems that the entire internet is being offered to the highest bidder: Verisign and the control of the .com domain, the chinese "great firewall" and general contents censorship ,the entire "net neutrality" question, the Media Conglomerates trying to shut down every "not-approved" distribution channels, the debacle about the autority over ICANN...

      Is there any project about a fully decentralized, anonymous network over such technologies? Or we should just surrender, and accept in the future a fast ,monitored, television-like Internet2? I couldn't care less about it if I will download "The Big Brother 2012" in real time at HD but won't be able to publish a blog against the political ideas of my government.

      </rant>
      PS:No, English is not my native language, so if you are so offended by my spelling/grammatical errors, please ignore my post.
  4. Internet 2: by rehtonAesoohC · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not to be confused with Web 2.0.

    1. Re:Internet 2: by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Not to be confused with Web 2.0.

      That's easy, it just Web 2.0 that I am confused about.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    2. Re:Internet 2: by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      I'm with Midnight Thunder. Internet2 is easy. There's no good definition as to what makes Web 2.0 and not. The version number doesn't apply either because different parts are available before others.

  5. Tube by jlebrech · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    You need much bigger tubes to run internet2. Ask Al Gore.

    1. Re:Tube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      This "Al Gore invented the internet" sh*t really needs to stop.

      If you read your history, Al was directly responsible for a very large funding push that made the internet useful to clowns like yourself. I apologize to you who think I'm merely being a troll, but if Gore hadn't got the funding, then "net neutrality" wouldn't even be a concept. You'd be paying a serious toll for crappy service from the likes of the "baby" Bells. Give the man the credit he's due.

      It was Senator Stevens ("bridge to nowhere, Alaska") who explained the internet as a collection of pneumatic tubes (he probably remembers shopping in old department stores, which is about when his dementia set in).

      SO, if you're going to insult our glorious leaders, at least get it right and pick the correct one.

    2. Re:Tube by davef139 · · Score: 1

      I do agree with you on that Gore did make that final push while he was VP which makes him the "inventor" although I belive something similar would have passed and the net would have just been created a few years later

    3. Re:Tube by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      Sorry everyone making fun of Al Gore on this is 100% Correct. Al got elected VP in 1994. He got this push though after thet. I remember using the Internet to do research back in 1991, 1992, 1993 and a lot of people used it before then. So we using the Internet before he created it. Dam those time traveling rooms back in college. I need to use them now.

    4. Re:Tube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is an American Scientist magazine from 1980 or 1983 (bad memory; I will look it up if our library has the magazine) stating that Congressman Gore had appropriated money to research civilian uses of DarpaNet.

    5. Re:Tube by itsNothing · · Score: 1
      I guess we gotta beat this one to death... Let me quote from an earlier posting which quotes from IEEE Spectrum magazine (Nov 2004) which we know to be a firey political bunch


      The record shows that Mr. Gore did a lot more for your internet connection than you're giving him credit for. Mr. Gore didn't invent networks or protocols or browsers. He gave you commercial-free bandwidth.

      The most recent IEEE Spectrum (Nov. 2004) has an article about their success in predicting technology over the past 40 years (it's their 40th anniversary issue). The 1989 entry (pg. 79) is The Internet. The text:
      Sometimes all you have to do is unlock the barn door--the hourse will amble out, and the cart will follow. When it came to the horse that would turn into the Internet, Bob Lucky wasn't worried about where it would go--he just wanted to be sure he was along for the ride.

      In September 1989, two years before any commercial activity on the Internet and four years before the graphical Web, the plucky Lucky, then a Bell Labs research director and still Spectrum's in-house sage, wrote: "A bill pending before the United States Congress, sponsored by Senator Albert Gore Jr. (D-Tenn), would authorize the construction of a nationwide gigabit network to connect educational and research institutes. The issue that keeps being raised is: what would a user do with a gigabit data link?"

      Lucky's answer was simple. "We are not very good at prediciting uses until the actual service becomes available. I am not worried; we will think of something when it happens."

      At that time, 56K was sufficient for research; those home users who existed were getting by with 300 to 1440 Baud. (Even today, many users still survive on dial-up.) Of course, someone would have gotten the idea to fund a high speed network for commercial use. However, it almost certainly wouldn't look like the one that got funded for educational and research use, though. Necessarily so, it would have been immediately organized to generate an ROI for the investors who paid for it. Who knows? Maybe SPAM would have been called: COMMERCIAL CONTENT?

      Gore's contribution wasn't technical, but if you've been paying attention you'll know that the technical problems are almost always the easiest to solve. The Internet as we know it today wouldn't exist without high bandwidth, inexpensive data pipes, and Mr. Gore generated the cash to have those built. I think he deserves a little credit for the significance of the contribution he made.

      I think that '91 comes after '89, even in base 16. So that "internet" you were using and researching while in college stills owes credit to Senator Gore (or so says the IEEE). So come on, give thanks to those damn liberal tree huggers. Come on, you can do it.
    6. Re:Tube by geekoid · · Score: 1

      http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

      never said inventor.
      "...Took the intiative in creating the Internet.."

      In context this is 100% true.

      Would someother politician done it at a later date? maybe. OTOH maybe they would of opened for commercial use ONLY. who know. One thing is certian, the politician who did the work that Al Gore did wouold have said the same thing.

      This misquote highlights how ignorant the slashdot crowd can be about politics.. Really, if people are as smart as they think they are they would have looked up the context.

      Was the statement self serving? of course! Almost everything every politician is self serving, it's the job.

      Sorry, but so many people on slashdot said they wouldn't vote for him because of a quote he didn't even say.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:Tube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, I was on the internet in the early 1980's, and I had websites up in 1991,
      and wrote a interactive web course on cell biology in 1994.

      So yes it was laughable that Al Gore took credit since we had the internet since
      DARPA created it. And it was used by Universities and companies commonly since
      at least in the 1970's. Many of us had BBS's, Ftp sites, Gopher sites, even before
      NCSA produced the first HTTP based web server and before NCSA Mosaic's browser.

      Gore did not apparently have a clue about the internet or its history or the uses
      before he even was in any political office.

    8. Re:Tube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Sorry everyone making fun of Al Gore on this is 100% Correct. Al got elected VP in 1994.

      Sorry, but the first factually verifiable statement you made is 100% incorrect. Clinton/Gore won the 1992 election.

      But don't let that stop you from inanely repeating long-debunked propaganda, retard.

    9. Re:Tube by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Why are people so stupid? Gore never claimed he "invented" the internet, merely that he help with legislation regarding it. And WTF does a BBS have to do with DARPA/AARPA/Internet anyways? Do you want a cookie? You apparently do not have a clue about the history of the internet - but don't let that stop you from repeating false information at every opportunity you get. This is after all, Slashdot.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
  6. Internet 2 is 10 already? by VitrosChemistryAnaly · · Score: 3, Funny

    Alright, that means only 8 more years until I can get some of her nude photos!

    --
    "It's a tarp!" -- Dyslexic Admiral Ackbar
    1. Re:Internet 2 is 10 already? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Not really. Because Technology grows so much faster, we measure it much like we measure dogs in dog years. In reality, Internet 2 is almost 35 already and well past her prime. If you wait 8 more years, Internet2 will be a mature woman of nearly 65, and not that pretty to look at.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  7. 10 Years old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    Imagine ... Internet 2 is but a couple of years younger than its older sibling. But, whereas its sibling has left home and become productive, Internet2 has somehow managed to never get out of college.

    Sounds like my brother. Lots of potential, but can't leave the nest.

    1. Re:10 Years old by stiggle · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only 27 years difference. 'Internet1' is 37 years old now.

    2. Re:10 Years old by 4D6963 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Internet 2 is but a couple of years younger than its older sibling

      Oh god, when will people (even on Slashdot!) realize that Internet != the Web? It's just plain aweful to see apparently computer-savvy people like you making the confusion. Oh well, not quite as bad as my sister who calls "Google" both Firefox and the Web.

      The Internet is a network, the Web is a service that happens to use this network.

      .

      --
      You just got troll'd!
  8. This is great by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Now, we don't have to worry about the tubes getting clogged. Because there is a backup now. 2 means two tubes, right?

  9. Internet2 Primer Needed by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So can anyone fill me in on what Internet2 actually does? The WP entry on the topic suggests that there is no network known as Internet2 per se, but one called Abilene, which I assume is what the Slashdot articles are mostly talking about. The Internet2 about page is mostly buzzword-laden fluff ("Internet2 members leverage our high-performance network infrastructure and extensive worldwide partnerships to support and enhance their educational and research missions").

    What does the Internet2 consortium actually do? And what can users actually do with the networks they've built? Do they work transparently, just providing higher-speed IP data service between certain institutions that are in the network, for their normal Internet traffic? Or do they use new protcols/applications completely?

    From a user's perspective, what does Internet2 (or Abilene) "look" like?

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      It lets college students quickly transfer MP3 files to other Abilene network members.

      I presume there might be other uses too. Like videos, I guess.

    2. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's a bigger series of tubes.

    3. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      This is the successor to Abilene.

      http://www.internet2.edu/network/

      or, more specifically:

      http://www.internet2.edu/network/library/Networksl ides2_files/frame.htm

    4. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by thomasdn · · Score: 1

      What does the Internet2 consortium actually do? From http://www.internet2.edu/about/:

      What We Do:
      Internet2 members leverage our high-performance network infrastructure and extensive worldwide partnerships to support and enhance their educational and research missions. Beyond just providing network capacity, Internet2 actively engages our community in the development of important new technology including middleware, security, network research and performance measurement capabilities which are critical to the progress of the Internet.
      --
      thomasdamgaard.dk.
    5. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by JumboMessiah · · Score: 4, Informative

      I2 from a connectivity standpoint really isn't anything different from I1. It's still an IP routed network and all your normal IP routed toys (www, ftp, home brew app) still work as advertised. The term Abilene is actually the name of the I2 backbone network. It was spawned as a second generation IP network (and yes it can route IPV6 natively) to connect research institutions. Allowing them to utilize the network for research and high speed data transfers. What kind of research? Well anything really, hear about those doctors doing remote robotic surgery? That data probably was traversing the Abilene backbone. Grid computing in acedemia? Probably connected via Abilene .

      Just like the I1 backbone, Abilene, being a backbone network, peers and eventually splits off to regional controlled networks. The one I am familiar with is OARNet (Ohio Acedemic Research Network). OARNet provides high speed connectivity to Ohio campuses and peers with the Abilene I2 backbone in Indianapolis (from OARNet's POP in Cleveland).

      From an I2 connected campus (meaning you have access to the Abilene backbone at somepoint), there really isn't anything special to connect over the Abilene core. The network gurus had the IPV4 routing setup in such a way that if you connected to an IP address that was available via Abilene, the data would go that path. Otherwise, it would route out over the standard I1 connection. Most of the time when I would have to download some big ISO images, I would specifically look for an Abilene (I2) connected peer. Downloads over 10MBit weren't uncommon (mostly limited by the load on at the server on the other end). Pretty cool really. I'm sure others around are using it for more important stuff other than downloading ISOs :).

    6. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

      It's a series of bigger tubes.

    7. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by protohiro1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow...that is a lot of words that totally don't say anything.

      --
      Sig removed because it was obnoxious
    8. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by minus_273 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "From a user's perspective, what does Internet2 (or Abilene) "look" like?

      As a person who's been on internet2 for 6-7 years now (and currently posting from a machine on Internet2) we get great stuff like I2hub to share huge files really fast and fantastic speeds( practically no lag) on online games with other I2 users on a private server on I2.

      After that, day to day browsing is the same since the sites are almost always hosted on the slow internet.

      --
      The war with islam is a war on the beast
      The war on terror is a war for peace
    9. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EVL went into networking because of the limitations of teleimmersion over the standard internet. Now the lab works on allot of high res real time scientific data over multitile visualization clusters. Here is a link to the 100Mpixel display http://www.evl.uic.edu/core.php?mod=4&type=1&indi= 273. I have seen demonstrations with the 2005 hurricane tracking and some microscope data. Along with some apps using what looks like high rez google maps which I was under the impression where to be used in emergency response type of things.

    10. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by bockelboy · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Internet2 is the research network that universities use for high-bandwidth needs. Universities formed a consortium so there would be a fancy organization that NSF would fund network connections and that they could leverage their size to get cheaper bandwidth.

      Buying a 10Gbps line from I2 that travels over Level3's network is about 10x cheaper than buying that bandwidth through L3 directly. Of course, it can be damned expensive to buy up the fiber from your university to one of the I2 hubs. Further, I2 doesn't like you to connect directly to their hubs - they prefer to connect through a "regional network". So, the Great Plains region, for example, set up a regional network called the GPN, and then the GPN buys the connection to Abilene (the name of the current I2 network).

      There's some money available for research into networking technologies such as the connection-oriented software mentioned above, but most of the traffic is simple IPV4 (and some IPV6).

      So, for some people, the I2 means that they can turn over 200 TB of disk cache every 2 weeks or so (which are the requirements for some sites associated with the Large Hadron Collider, like us). For others, it means that they can stream classes in HDTV across the United States.

      For another good chunk of users, it means that they can trade movies/songs at gigabit speeds, if the p2p application can support that. Most can't. It still takes a bit of networking black-magic to get line-speed for gigabit ports, but not nearly as much as it used to.

    11. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by boyko.at.netqos · · Score: 1

      Jokes aside, I wonder if they're prioritizing traffic using some sort of WAN performance solution. And is the traffic on that HD video UDP or TCP? If it's UDP, I'll bet you it's taking up the whole pipe and nothing else is traveling on the network at that time.

      --
      I used to work for NetQoS. I no longer do, but want to keep the excellent karma attached to this account.
    12. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      What's funnier is that I actually quoted it in my original question, with a link to the same page. You'll find it in my original (GGP) post located just after the phrase "buzzword-laden fluff."

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    13. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by cllajoie · · Score: 1

      Most people think of Internet2 as Abilene, the lower latency, higher bandwidth network that connects universities and some of our partners. In addition to that Internet2 funds a number of research and software development projects in partnership with the universities. Some of these research projects are focused on the network (TCP/IP stacks, network management, end-to-end diagnostics, etc.), other projects focus on "middleware" software (identity management, federated identity system, privilege management, etc.).

      So, if I had to describe Internet2 I would say that is was a collection of universities and vendor partners that are trying to create a good environment for researchers to work together starting from the network layer up.

    14. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Asima+Wasiri · · Score: 1

      Abilene: Prettiest network that I've ever seen. People there don't treat you mean on Abilene. My Abilene.

    15. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its just as the name implies; its a second internet; except that this one will be controlled and DRM'd to hell, so no more piracy. Apparently.

    16. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The war with islam is a war on the beast
      The war on terror is a war for peace

      I could swear your sig used to say the eminently more true:

      The war with islam is a war for the beast
      The war on terror is a war on peace

    17. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by earthbound+kid · · Score: 1

      No, the Internet 2 is actually a truck.

    18. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      No, they don't have any fancy Quality of Service software, they've just got plenty of bandwidth in their core network. You don't need Quality of Service if the network is practically empty all the time; there's no congestion.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    19. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by boyko.at.netqos · · Score: 1

      But - and trying not to be snarky - if the network is practically empty all the time, what's the point of the network?

      --
      I used to work for NetQoS. I no longer do, but want to keep the excellent karma attached to this account.
    20. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by rvw14 · · Score: 1

      Hey, I leveraged the synergy of the internet2 and had seamless collaboration with my paradigm.

    21. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      The point is that it isn't empty, and the other point is that bandwidth is dirt cheap.

      Actually QOS schemes ultimately rely on having plenty of bandwidth. As soon as you run out, all QOS does for you is degrade your service slightly more 'gracefully', but the network becomes rapidly less neutral.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    22. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      From a user's perspective, what does Internet2 (or Abilene) "look" like?

      Assume the institution you're at has both an I1 and I2 PoP and you want to communicate with another institution that has both an I1 and I2 PoP. You're on an I1 segment and your collaborator is on an I2 segment, and the network geniuses at each end have conspired to route traffic in opposite directions but disallowed asymmetric routing. Well then it pretty much looks like a black hole--you can throw stuff in, but it don't come out. Hey, don't laugh. This actually happened.
    23. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by boyko.at.netqos · · Score: 1

      Isn't that the point of QoS? To prioritize traffic so that it becomes used more effectively before you are required to upgrade your bandwidth?

      Don't get me wrong - I realize that, on the Internet, traffic needs to be neutral. But on a business or academic network, some traffic - the business or academically critical traffic - is simply more important than other traffic.

      I would say that bandwidth is cheap if you're talking about connecting to the 'net, but if you're talking about a private network, bandwidth upgrades are major, expensive hassles in both manpower and raw cost.

      --
      I used to work for NetQoS. I no longer do, but want to keep the excellent karma attached to this account.
    24. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      Well, the network I'm on right now has QOS. So far as I can tell they mainly use it to degrade P2P traffic during peak times. They still need to deliver the contention ratio that we buy though, so I don't think it saves them that much money.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    25. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by boyko.at.netqos · · Score: 1

      I don't know if you've got full QoS; degrading P2P traffic can usually be done straight in the Cisco router. QoS tends to have a couple more applications; for example, when you have UDP and TCP on the same network at the same time (which is what prompted my original comment.) UDP is designed to expand it's use of bandwidth to the amount available, and dropped packets are just dropped. This is why UDP is usually used for VoIP or videoconferencing; if you're using a VoIP app, having the dropped packet half-a-second late means nothing to you, and you want to have the best quality available, so UDP is the natural choice. TCP views completeness as more important; dropped packets tell the TCP protocol that it needs to slow down to ensure message accuracy.

      So, riddle me this. What happens when you have TCP and UDP running on the same line? UDP takes up all the bandwidth NOT in use by TCP. TCP, seeing that the bandwidth is saturated (and dropping packets) throttles down. UDP, seeing that there's suddenly more room for UDP, throttles up. In response, TCP throttles down. In response UDP throttles up.

      From what I know about Internet2, it's a TCP/IP based network, which means either they're using TCP/IP for the video presentation (inefficient), OR there's nothing else on that pipe(Internet2 is underutilized), OR they're using a QoS solution.

      --
      I used to work for NetQoS. I no longer do, but want to keep the excellent karma attached to this account.
    26. Re:Internet2 Primer Needed by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      UDP is designed to expand it's use of bandwidth to the amount available, and dropped packets are just dropped.

      No, dude, get a clue. It's designed to do no such thing. A moronically written application sitting on top of UDP might try to pull crap like that, and there's nothing in UDP to stop it, but equally there's nothing in UDP to encourage it either. And if your Isp finds you running an application like that, with no sensible congestion strategy you'd be history and rightly so.

      So, riddle me this. What happens when you have TCP and UDP running on the same line? UDP takes up all the bandwidth NOT in use by TCP. TCP, seeing that the bandwidth is saturated (and dropping packets) throttles down. UDP, seeing that there's suddenly more room for UDP, throttles up. In response, TCP throttles down. In response UDP throttles up.

      Most QOS apps are roughly constant bitrate. So the UDP throttles up until it gets enough bandwidth, and then holds it at that, and yeah TCP gets out of the way enough until it gets what it needs. This is not bad- this is what you want to happen right? You want P2P and web stuff to not hold up VOIP traffic. And if UDP is unable to get enough bandwidth it kills the connection; which is also what you want to happen. In other words UDP is a way of getting QOS on a conventional IP network; which is why it is used. This is not bad or evil unless they take unreasonable amounts of traffic (on average); but that's why ISPs traffic shape, so that on average their customers don't abuse their connections. It all works reasonably well provided the customers don't exceed their contention ratio on average.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  10. Internet2 Turns 10 by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Funny

    Over One Billion Files shared.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  11. I bet.... by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

    I bet Microsoft didn't even send Internet2 a cake....Those bastards....

    --
    "But this one goes to 11!"
  12. The best thing about Internet2 by dave420 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Porn2.

  13. how is it better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i couldn't understand what internet2 really is... is it just something that runs on (maybe) better cables and uses qos or what?

    in this case wouldn't it be something like netsukuku better?
    no need of dns, download from multiple gateways, no source-trace possible ecc...

  14. Woo Hooo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More bandwidth for Verizon, Comcast, etc. to traffic shape into oblivion! So, you like the newsgroups, eh? Let's see how much you like it at 20kbps!

  15. The INTERNETS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Ah-ha! Now I see what President Bush meant by the term 'internets'! He was referring to the regular internet, and internet2!

  16. Anyone at UIC Familiar With This? by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

    IIRC, the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) has a connection to this network. Does anyone from UIC have any information about what's going on with it? I attended classes in the college of Engineering (EECS) from '94 till '98, but I can't recall anyone ever mentioning it.

    I would assume labs like the Electronic Visualization Lab would have had a connection to this network, but perhaps only the medical campus is using it?

  17. About time the internet by geekoid · · Score: 1

    caught up with Web2.0!

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  18. 1988 sponsored NHPCA which is why you could use it by geekoid · · Score: 1

    I suggest you read:
    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

    "...and he sponsored the 1988 National High-Performance Computer Act (which established a national computing plan and helped link universities and libraries via a shared network) and cosponsored the Information Infrastructure and Technology Act of 1992 (which opened the Internet to commercial traffic). "

    You look like an idiot(which you probably aren't) when you bandy around some misquoted and ignorant statements.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  19. Another great reference by geekoid · · Score: 1

    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  20. That clears some things up. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    The network gurus had the IPV4 routing setup in such a way that if you connected to an IP address that was available via Abilene, the data would go that path.

    Interesting.

    I guess, in my mind, if a network is using the same address space as the public Internet, than it basically "is" the Internet; it's just a high-speed portion of it. When I heard people talking about Internet2/Abilene as if it were a separate network, I assumed it used a totally separate addressing scheme or at least separate address space.

    I'm not trying to diminish what the folks involved in this project have done, but it sounds like the distinction between "the Internet" and "Internet2" are somewhat arbitrary. (Not that you couldn't say the same thing about any other network using regular IANA IP addresses, and in fact I would.)

    Handling and setting up the routing for such a system must have been interesting, though. (It's always seemed like a black art to me, but isn't that the sort of thing that BGP and modern routers are supposed to help handle automatically? A router which wasn't able to choose between two paths, one vastly faster than the other, wouldn't be much good.)

    Anything that brings more bandwidth out to more places and people is an inherently good thing, in my book. (Well, unless they're using unpatched Windows boxes, in which case it's probably very bad.)

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:That clears some things up. by gid13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think it would be better viewed as "another Internet". Unless I misunderstand it, the Internet and Internet2 aren't connected at high levels, they only get connected in some sense because of "customers" like the one mentioned above that have a network that will route some of its traffic to Internet2 and some of it to the Internet. Think of it like having cable TV from two different companies, and having a switch that controls which one you're watching at any given time. The two cable companies aren't really connected per se, it's just your machine that can access either stream. Since internet is two-way, I assume someone with connections to both could of course run some kind of server to provide Internet2 access to the Internet or vice versa, but that's not like the two of them being networked together at many points, it's just some dude purchasing access to both and saying "hey, I'm going to connect these".

  21. Some tips for a long-time Internet researcher by Rescate · · Score: 1

    You might try using the Internet to do some research now... I hear it is a lot easier now that this World Wide Web thing is built on top of it.

    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

    You know, there's a rumor going around that "Al" got elected as VP in 1992, not 1994, and was inaugurated as VP on January 20, 1993. If only there were a way to verify this... Maybe in the distant future we'll be able to look up these things from the comfort of our living room.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=al+gore+inaugurated

    This isn't really relevant anyway, since (unbeknownst to you and your Internet research powers) he had served for many years in the Congress previous to his election as VP. It was in the Congress that he started pushing for Internet funding. He continued to be a champion of the Internet while VP. Please read about this in another new and exciting research source on the Internet, Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore#Gore_bill

    Now that the Internet is here, you should try using it sometime.

    I am now going to flagellate myself for wasting some precious minutes of my life writing this post, and for wasting more time writing this sentence telling you this.

  22. Is this compatible... by sgant · · Score: 1

    Is Internet2 compatible with Web 2.0?

    Do I need Internet2 to hook up to Web 2.0?

    Do I have to call my ISP to hook up to Web 2.0?

    (yes, these are actual questions I've been asked...though not through the fault of the person asking, more with the boneheads that label these things).

    --

    "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
  23. INteresting who's involved by riverbag · · Score: 0, Redundant

    check out the corporate involvement on this Package. http://members.internet2.edu/liaison_list_pub.cfm? member=CM&contact=all&sortby=company&format=web PUTS on tinfoil hat

    1. Re:INteresting who's involved by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 1

      Yeah, now we know where C-SPAN's Black Ops budget has been going...

      --
      Just junk food for thought...
  24. The Birth Place of Web 2.0 by djKing · · Score: 1

    no not really.

    --
    Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
  25. Internet2 is irrelevant by cybpunks3 · · Score: 1

    Ten years and still irrelevant to regular internet users. Nice work, guys.

    1. Re:Internet2 is irrelevant by gordyf · · Score: 1

      It wasn't meant to be relevant to regular internet users. It's a high speed data network connecting major universities and research organizations.

      Making it relevant to regular internet users would defeat the purpose of having a dedicated research network.

  26. Internet2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi all.
    I'm a student/IT guy here at IU, and Internet2 is a high-speed (mostly optical, with Abilene(the backbone) generally running 2.4gbit [OC-192]) network. The network is managed by IU at its Indianapolis campus in the IU Global NOC. For more information: http://abilene.internet2.edu/

    It is a network apart from the Internet that is for educational institutions (colleges).
    Additionally, it connects to other remote educational networks (CERN, KREONET2, RETINA) via border links (Pacific Wave, MANLAN, StarLight,etc...)http://abilene.internet2.edu/peer networks/international.html
    But yes, that means high-speed pirating for the collegiate masses! (I'm at IU's Bloomington campus, and I usually get about 4mbit up/down to and from the I2's Internet POP.)

    And as mentioned by another poster above, you don't need anything new to access it, you just have to be at a member college. In fact, my dorm ethernet is actually the pre-standardized wiring scheme, and it runs quite well despite having to use some really weird ethernet cabling (makes a CCNA like myself scratch his head and wonder what they were thinking).

    At any rate, I highly recommend the site if you are at all into advanced networking, it's full of things to oogle over (OC links, T3s, and the like.)

    Regards,
    -Hoosier Geek

  27. A great news story about internet... by Myself · · Score: 1

    Just came across this:

    http://qwantz.livejournal.com/67153.html

    Of course, I could post the YouTube link directly, but it's more fun to see what other Qwantz readers are saying about it. ;) It's a CBC news story from the pre-www days, spends a lot of time talking about usenet as if it's the entire internet.

    Some hilarious lines in there, including "the deep desire to be rooted". That one's exactly three minutes in. Enjoy!

  28. For your enoyment.... by Driving+Vertigo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Introducing Internet 2!

    Now, with BIGGER tubes, on a BIGGER truck!

    --
    To a noob, root is like a gay bar...and he's wearing assless chaps
  29. Internet Who? by leek · · Score: 1

    The one that screws you?