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Virtual Reality Creates False Memories

moon_monkey writes "There's an interesting post on NewScientistTech's blog about virtual reality inducing false memories during a recent experiment (pdf). Ann Schlosser at the University of Washington tested students' ability to learn how to use a real digital camera by operating a virtual one. Although those students who used the virtual camera found it easier to remember how the camera worked, they also experienced more 'false memories'. As the post points out, could this be a serious problem for VR going forward?"

42 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. So... by otacon · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I didn't really lose my virginity? it was just VR? Damn

    --
    In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
    1. Re:So... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2, Funny

      So I didn't really lose my virginity? it was just VR? Damn Damn! And I have quite the opposite problem! Drank some 10 glasses of beer the evening when it happened, and have (almost) no memory of the act...
    2. Re:So... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh you did, but it wasn't with Heidi Klum. It was with something less attractive. I've seen the YouTube, and all I can say that you're a sick puppy. :P

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    3. Re:So... by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is all baloney. Although ever since I got back from my Mars vacation I've felt a little strange, but my wife tells me it should pass soon.

    4. Re:So... by Gilmoure · · Score: 3, Funny

      So...I'm not married to a 5'11" 38F-28-36 librarian/belly-dancer/Unix sys-admin with long dark hair and glasses who digs Conan movies?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  2. Simple by black6host · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just design it the way they think it should work. Problem solved.

  3. I'm confused by Chineseyes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Regardless of whether this happened in reality or a virtual reality it still happend so how are the memories false? Or is this just a matter of distinguishing between real and virtual worlds if so then that makes perfect sense because dreams imo are our own virtual reality and I've had some dreams that I couldn't distinguish between reality when I woke up.

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    1. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      so how are the memories false?

      The memories are false because things did not really happen as the test subjects remembered.

      If you have the time and/or inclination, read up on the research of Dr. Elizabeth Loftus. She (and others) have demonstrated that it is trivial to create false memories in people. More importantly, once a false memory has been created, it is otherwise indistinguishable from a real one. That means a person cannot rid themselves of a false memory any more than they can rid themselves of a real memory. The implications of this are significant.

    2. Re:I'm confused by kalirion · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think the article means that the people working with VR cameras remembered doing more things in VR than they actually did.

    3. Re:I'm confused by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Informative

      But that's not a new problem. It's long been known that eyewitness testimony is highly unreliable, owing to the brains ability to "fill in" details of events with extra information. The classic example is of course the intro Psych course where an unknown assailant kills someone before the whole class, then runs from the room. Ask everyone in the room to describe the assailant and what occurred and you're liable to get as many different stories as there are people. The brain has a way of smoothing over memories and adding in extra bits of information it correlates with experiences to help aid in recall, but this of course leads to degradation of the memory's "truth." THis result should really not come as much of a shock.

      --
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    4. Re:I'm confused by WeeLad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This reminds me of an article that showed up sometime ago (for which I'm too lazy to search). Subjects who had went to Disney World as a child were asked to remember if they met a series of characters while there. The questioners mixed in a non-Disney character, like Bugs Bunny, and a significant number of people claimed to remember meeting the rascally rabbit.

      --
      Seriously, Don't take anything I say seriously.
    5. Re:I'm confused by FingerDemon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think that was a Scientific American article on hypnosis and I thought it only happened when the subjects were hypnotized or in a state of deep concentration. Being in that state caused the memories to be recorded in the brain in an indistinguishable way from the way real memories are stored. It made me wonder about that whole day-care satan worship scandal a few years back.

      --

      "Contrarily the lookaside buffer might not be the panacea... "
    6. Re:I'm confused by cloricus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I read TFA and I was thinking this really isn't an issue as it is nothing new. I've heard of the lady you talk of and her research from a shrink friend of mine at uni. I have serious memory issues so this friend and I have spend a lot of time talking over the topic and she often quotes studies where unknowing parties see an event (first hand in front of them) and then when asked about it later (as little as a minute) they are asked to reconstruct the event as accurately as possible. The results in almost all of the instances she has referenced is that very few (and I believe we are talking about a percentage i.e. non existent) people remember what really happened; The rest simply see what they want to see. (Note seeing what they want to see appears, in my opinion, to be based on personal, cultural, and spur of the moment bias.)

      Now as I don't have a reliable memory I have to have a system of storing information in the real world and I often see issues of parity between the real world information that I know to be correct (why would I lie to myself?) and memories which can't possibly exist. Maybe VR will make more people aware of these memory short falls that they've never noticed before (or blamed on alcohol!) though I can't see it causing any more problems than that.

      --
      I ate your fish.
    7. Re:I'm confused by somersault · · Score: 4, Funny

      The classic example is of course the intro Psych course where an unknown assailant kills someone before the whole class, then runs from the room.

      Wow.. higher education sounds a lot more practical based over in the USA! Do you tend to use vagrants as the 'someone', or just international scholarship students who get promised that the money will go to their families?
      --
      which is totally what she said
    8. Re:I'm confused by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ever hear of "Publish or Perish"?

    9. Re:I'm confused by AI0867 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In another test, people were given some time to study a picture, it was a crossroads with stop signs. When asked what the colour of the traffic light was, 50% of the people said red, 25% said yellow and 25% said green. All insisted the traffic light was really there.

      In another study, someone showed it was ridiculously easy to alter test subject's childhood memories to include things that could never have happened.

      Human memory is a read-write filesystem, and recalling a memory overwrites it, recalling it with suggestions offered by the outside world can easily alter them.

      --
      Disclaimer: If this post doesn't make any sense, it's because I'm really, REALLY tired...

    10. Re:I'm confused by Saib0t · · Score: 3, Informative
      If you have the time and/or inclination, read up on the research of Dr. Elizabeth Loftus. She (and others) have demonstrated that it is trivial to create false memories in people. More importantly, once a false memory has been created, it is otherwise indistinguishable from a real one. That means a person cannot rid themselves of a false memory any more than they can rid themselves of a real memory. The implications of this are significant.
      Loftus, M.K. Johnson, Marsh, Landau, Hicks, McRae. These guys have worked quite some on false memories. But parent is right, E. Loftus and M.K. Johnson are really interesting to read on these topic. I wouldn't go as far as saying that creating false memories in people is trivial, but some experiments reach upwards of 20% of success in creating false memories in normal people. Problem is, though, that these experiment create extremely simple false memories. It is quite possible, though, to make the difference between a real and false memory. False memories tend to exhibit much less phenomenological characteristics. For instance you can remember very well the sound of a sentence, but not the emotional state you were in when you heard it or in whose company you were at the time or what you thought of the sentence at that time. There has been some work done recently on what these differences. (see Brédart, Defeldre on the topic).
      --

      One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
  4. EGA memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I often confuse my sex life with Leisure Suit Larry's

  5. Duh by ari_j · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's the whole point of virtual reality: be realistic enough to be indistinguishable from reality. The fact that it results in more false memories already is just evidence that we're finally catching up with the goals set for virtual reality decades ago.

    1. Re:Duh by DragonWriter · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except this isn't about remembering things that actually happened in VR as "real", its about remembering things that didn't happen at all simply because they were suggested in questioning.

  6. Quaid, get your ass to MARS! by puto · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, this has appeared in sci fi books for years, and of course did they forget flight simulators, driving simulators, and the umpteen simulators that simulate reality to learn a task? Those have been creating Virtual memories that translate into skills.

    Did these guys miss the Matrix?

    Even in the movie Total Recall this was beaten to death. And in Do Androids Dream of Elctric Sheep.

    So nothing really new here to see, an idea that is more than 30 years old?

    Anyway, Arnold beat these researchers to it.

    Puto

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
    1. Re:Quaid, get your ass to MARS! by ZeroExistenZ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is a slight gap between "reality" and "entertainment".

      --
      I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
  7. "False memories"? by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Before anyone thinks this might be an indication that memories can be "implanted", I think this may be jumping to conclusions just a tad.

    The blog post and the preprint make reference to the notion that people who experienced a "virtual" digital camera were more capable with the real thing...but also "remembered" things about it that weren't true, based on questions asked.

    I fail to see how this is "inducing" false memories. Could this possibly be a function of the fact that the simulation isn't 100% accurate, and that "false" "memories" about the item (determined by the number of specific or leading questions that are incorrectly answered) would be reduced as the simulation gets more and more close to, well, reality?

    Besides, I think we could do a study and prove that plenty of people have "false memories" with regard to the actual capabilities of real devices...

    1. Re:"False memories"? by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, I don't actually know what the questions were, because the paper is very poorly written, but I can imagine it was something like:

              Did you find the viewfinder easy to use? Yes. No. N/A.

      The person doing the survey may answer yes or no, ignoring the N/A option, even though there was no viewfinder on the virtual camera. Aha! They must have a false memory of the camera because they expected to see a viewfinder! Wow, how interesting. Or, ya know, they just didn't notice the N/A option because all of the previous questions were straight Yes/No answers.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:"False memories"? by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or, more likely, they didn't immediately know what was meant by a "viewfinder" and assumed that "the viewfinder" referred to whatever was "finding a view" (i.e., the screen, the hole they looked through to take the picture, etc.). So they could have just force-fitted the term "viewfinder" to whatever they used that was closest in function to "finding a view".

      Cause people assume, you know, surveys aren't trying to test them with trick questions.

  8. Today, a young man.... by Pojut · · Score: 5, Funny

    Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration... that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather.

    1. Re:Today, a young man.... by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh, you know what he's doing now? He's going for the righteous indignation dollar. That's a big dollar. Lot of people are feeling that indignation, we've done research. Huge market. He's doing a good thing.

  9. Gut reaction by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 4, Interesting
    My gut reaction is to respond to this with a solid NO. If we experience something "virtually" we're still experiencing it. It is a fundamentally different experience from actually operating the camera. Yes, much of the knowledge gained from actually using the device is directly applicable when you are actually holding it, but there is something to be said for the physical hands-on experience.

    Or, perhaps the simplest answer...your students are dumb, they couldn't remember all of the instructions 100% accurately and screwed them up. Upon questioning their stupidity they responded "the computer...it...it gave me false memories! TETSUOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Something like that.

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  10. Just like real memories... by aliendisaster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not a psychologist but, if I remember correctly from my psych classes, memories is a lie. The things we remember now are not the actual events from the past. What we remember is basically pieces of the truth that has gaps filled in by our mind. I don't really see the difference from this and normal memory.

    --
    Freedom is a state of mind. A mind is a state of being. Stay the fuck out of my mind and my being. - Corporate Avenger
  11. Doubtful by tttonyyy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    As the post points out, could this be a serious problem for VR going forward?"
    It might only be a problem when applied to subtle differences between VR and real life, like changing the functionality of camera between VR/RL slightly.

    On significant things, like jumping off a ledge and flying; well - we might be able to distinguish between RL and VR in those circumstances.

    In bad-analogy-land, if I was to swap a few keys on your keyboard you might find it confusing for a bit, but if I were to paint it green, you'd probably notice (unless it was already green of course).

    Of course, where you draw the line between subtle and significant is a whole other argument. But I think the human brain does that already to some extent; remembering important things and discarding irrelevant things.

    Serious problem? Doubtful.
    --
    biopowered.co.uk - catalytically cracking triglycerides for home automotive use since 2008. Just say no to big oil!
  12. This will help VR for advertisement by paulpach · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As the post points out, could this be a serious problem for VR going forward?
    Quite the opposite. This means that you can make an audience believe the camera is more than it really is without actually lying. This is like striking gold for advertisers. If this proves to be true, it is an incentive for advertisers to invest into VR technology.
  13. Dupe! by muellerr1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Or, wait, maybe it's not. I guess can't rightly recall now.

  14. I expect there is no one phenomenon of memory by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Memory" is a completely inadequate word to cover all the things we use it for, as if our minds were cameras that recorded our experiences on tape. There are sense memories; emotional memories; recognition memories; navigation memories; skill memories; procedure memories; narrative memories; association memories, and probably dozens more. Memory is not just recall, it has a substantial element of re-creation and imagination.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  15. Not a comparison of Reality and Virtual Reality by secretasiandan · · Score: 2, Interesting
    only between memories from different VR experiences.

    In fact, the study leads me to believe that experiences in reality will produce almost as many false memories as the 'object interactive' VR expereinces

    "Indeed, scholars argue that although learning via physical experience with a product is vivid, it can create an illusory sense of competence (Hoch and Deighton 1989)"

    Here, the 'object interactive' VR experiences create more vivid memories than the 'picture site'.

    "Likewise, Bartlett (1932) argued that reconstructive memory is more likely to occur with rich than simplified materials because in the former case, individuals are more likely to "fill in" the missing pieces of their memories"

    What's more vivid than real experiences? Arguably, because people are less familiar with the VR environment, they might be more prone to produce memories so that their minds can make sense of what occurred.

    In the end, I believe false memories occur because people have models (conciously or subconciously) of how the world works in their heads. When the experience is richer, the model must be more complex. When the model is more complex, there are more things to not understand/remember. When there are more things to no understand/remember, there are more things to make up to make sense of it all

    --
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  16. Re:I Believe There is a Name for That Condition: by cyclomedia · · Score: 4, Funny

    Surely "Deja VR" ...

    i'll get my coat

    --
    If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
  17. No worries by wumpus188 · · Score: 2, Funny

    It is usually just a glitch in the matrix.

  18. Nothing to do with VR by NereusRen · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Let's get something straight: This was NOT a test of VR versus reality. One group interacted with a camera in VR, and the other group read about it with some pictures. (I don't have a problem with the study, but rather with bloggers who misinterpret it.)

    As the post points out, could this be a serious problem for VR going forward?
    No. It is going to create a problem for the concept of memories, which have always been volatile and unreliable, but for some reason are perceived as accurate fact-recall centers in our brain. Something has to force people to adjust how they think of "memories," and this suggests it might be VR.

    Research into "flash-bulb" memories (e.g. "I can remember exactly where I was when I heard about the Challenger") has shown that people's confidence in their memory for small details is barely correlated with the amount of detail they actually recall correctly. Elizabeth Loftus's research into eyewitness accounts and false memories have already shown that it is possible to plant even completely false memories with a reasonable success rate, much less small differences in an otherwise real memory like whether a street sign in a video was a stop or a yield, or what specific features a digital camera has.

    from the blog: "It wasn't tested, but I assume real experiences don't generate false memories to the same degree."

    Actually, I would assume the opposite: allowing people to play with a real camera briefly would have the same effect.
  19. Re: Scifi Books, History, Truth, VR, and Fantasy by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    History (dull) is the recitation of factoids that (generally) no one can dispute. However, the factoids have no meaning, and therefore little truth alone.

    History (narrative) draws conclusions from the factoids, and creates historical principles. Subject to the caveat that these are only as good as the person drawing the conclusions, these historical principles have much truth, but become open to interpretation.

    Contemporary fiction deliberately masks most/all factoids to sculpt a specific scenario necessary to demonstrate an overall truth the writer has noticed.

    Scifi creates a subset of specific scenarios by adding new technology and social conventions to create a wider range of scenarios to use as backdrops. The best Scifi demonstrates truths which are not possible in any other genre.

    Fantasy is generally an anti-technology subset cross between fictional history and mythology. It too attempts to create additional backdrop scenarios.

    VR creates specific events in an alternate space that may only exist for a single specific user. If an external documentation method were used, they might be as 'factual' as any other event, but there may not be any other person able to verify these events.

    We'd need a new word to describe the results of what was termed elsewhere 'faulty data processing'.

    --
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  20. In other words - "I know what I know" by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2, Funny
    That means a person cannot rid themselves of a false memory any more than they can rid themselves of a real memory.

    In a similar vein, people have beliefs that are just as "false". And there you have the basis for most of humanities problems.

    Homo Sapiens brains just don't work right, depending on my definition of right, and you cannot disabuse me of that notion.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:In other words - "I know what I know" by sandmaninator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If your goal is truth, I would agree that humans brains are generally not so good at finding it. But for stuff like survival and reproduction, the brain has served humanity well. It is interesting to see the adapatations that the human brain has to make to fit in to a world where objective truth seems almost possible. At least the science users among us seem to be the most successfull right now.

  21. i heard.... by specific · · Score: 2, Funny

    When Chuck Norris kills you in VR, you die in real life, & you remember being killed by him in your next life.

    --
    If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
  22. Money for nothin'... by MS-06FZ · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's all fine and good, but now my retarded gardener has developed some kind of strange telekinetic powers - he's going all Dark Phoenix on us!

    --
    ---GEC
    I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand