Slashdot Mirror
PayPal Launches Virtual Debit Card
IpSo_ writes "You can now use PayPal via a Virtual Debit Card when making online purchases anywhere MasterCard is accepted. Basically it generates a virtual card number each time you make a transaction online so you don't have to use your personal debit or credit card number. Will people be more comfortable making online purchases with this, or will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?"
Citibank says, "Been there, done that."
there's the stanadlone App, or the web-based version - the numbers are one-time use, and can be used anywhere - on or off the net.
why is the rest of the world not keeping up?
And thus it's been added to Bank of America credit cards
2.) Online Buying Clarity: You'll be able to view all charges you make on the internet individually and not have it mixed in with your regular credit card bill.
1.) Privacy: You can use a Credit Card online with it it showing up on your Credit Card Bill. It will be BIG in the online porn world.
-Todd
Put down the sig, and step away from the computer.
Doesn't every other major credit card bank do this already? I know my AMEX, Discover and Citibank cards already let you go online and generate a one-time-use number. It's handy not only for security purposes, but in case I don't have my wallet with me and need to buy something online. I just have to log into the website and can immediately get a usable number for the purchase.
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my disk????
It stopped doing it because it flopped.
The editors really don't look at this stuff, do they?
The link goes to the contents of a pop-up window displaying a FAQ that's intended for the BETA USERS of this service.
"Launched" isn't the word that should be used for the current state.
Smile did/do it.
Deleted
Just call your CC company and ask for a set of disposable CC #s. They're single use for online purchases.
Any time someone claims "the security is very real", the bogometer enters the red.
> I missed the demo when I downloaded the PayPal Virtual Debit Card. How can I see it again?
"Downloaded"? You mean this is an application? Bogometer pegged. Spyware sensor into the red.
> How do I use PayPal Virtual Debit Card?
>
> When you are ready to make a purchase on a website that accepts MasterCard, a notifier appears asking if you'd like to pay with PayPal Virtual Debit Card. You can click on the notifier to use PayPal Virtual Debit Card, and you can also always access PayPal Virtual Debit Card from the icons located on your browser's toolbar and system task tray.
Ah, it's not just a separate application, it's an (IE-only, presumably) Browser Helper Object and/or background service. Not only is the bogometer needle is bent, but the spyware sensor is on fire, and I'm reaching for my wallet, where my small fistful of weathered Federal Reserve Notes is looking mighty comfortable right about now.
Even by PayPal's standards, this is looking like a galactic-central-black-hole-through-buckytubes pile of suck.
why is the rest of the world not keeping up?
Because I have very little use for one of these? My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges and I'm not worried in the least if someone uses it two states away for gas. If Chase makes me call them when I'm going outside of my "home area" so they don't shut me off, then I'm not concerned if someone steals the card number after I make a purchase online at Newegg.
If someone uses the card locally, big deal. I call Chase and tell them that the card was stolen and the charge wasn't mine. Not many questions asked.
For *most* people, they just aren't paranoid enough to use a one time number for their purchases.
This is not new, they have done it for a long time. Granted this is four+ years ago, they might have pulled it then just now reinstated it. Who knows, I don't like Pay-Pal enough to care.
will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?
It'll flop because paypal is the worst 'bank' to have to deal with. They have poor customer service, the fees are outrageous, phishing is out of control, and the Bank of America already has something like this.
Ever get accused of not delivering something on E-Bay? It works out pretty well because paypal will just automatically steal the money out of your account, or send debt collection on your ass if you don't have the balance.
This all happens before they even talk to you. This is why I use neither E-bay nor paypal.
Latewire
How about asking, "Will it finally force PayPal to follow US Federal Law regarding financial institutions, or will it continue to act as with capricious disregard for facts and evidence when there's a payment dispute?"
[
If not, why are they being subservient to the RIAA?
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
As others have pointed out, many companies have been offering this for a while.
That list includes PayPal: back before eBay bought PayPal (at least four years ago), PayPal had a directory of shops. They had a feature where, if you added a credit card to your account, it'd let you browse the web with a frame at the top of the window (IIRC) with a virtual Visa/MasterCard number which you could use to buy things.
They took it away for a time, but apparently now it's back. The only difference I can see between the old Virtual Debit Card and the new one is the random account number generator.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Fry: "Do you take Visa?"
Clerk: "Visa hasn't existed for five hundred years."
Fry: "American Express?"
Clerk: "Six hundred years."
Fry: "Discover Card?"
Clerk: "Hmm... sorry, we don't take Discover."
i don't understand the point of these systems. on a related note, does anyone understand BillMeLater? doesn't it just sound like a credit card on top of a credit card and another way to lose your money if someone ID-thefts you?
what's wrong with the bank's debit card (if you want it) and a credit card of your choice?
From their QA about the virtual debit card:
Need I say more?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
for people outside the US this will be a good thing (TM). here in europe, credit cards aren't so popular as in the US and shop's who only offer payement by credit card (nytimes.com comes to my mind) are just not usable for me (not haveing a CC) so, when paypal finally launches their product, i can stop doing these buys with my mother's CC.
SEO Test: TIGI und SEBASTIAN - Online Shop - V
What happens if you are a victim of a fraudulent purchase and you need to do a chargeback? Is it even possible? I assume it's harder to do because the money has already been paid in full from your own personal account and not from the card issuer's account.
Really strange for Paypal to offer their own virtual card number and call it a feature, when they themselves don't support the use of virtual credit card numbers themselves.
Make "too many" credit card changes to your Paypal account and you'll see it locked. You become a special member when each future credit card has to be approved before use. By the way, they also charge for this feature. Sure they chargeback the fee when you make a purchase, but why do this to begin with ?
I am sure I've used this several years ago, it would make a frame in the top of the browser with the temporary number, and then you could browse any site you wanted to shop underneath and use it there.
I seem to also remember there being issues with lots of places not taking these cards due to extreme fraud.
-Cliff
Here's how PayPal responded (after 3 business days) to my question about one of my transactions. It took me three (3) tries to get a real answer out of them, which was basically: "You'll have to contact the seller".
I will never use PayPal for anything other than cheap crap (less than $100) I buy occasionally on ebay.
Dear A.C.,
Due to an increase in seasonal email volumes, we may not have been able to
answer your email.
If your inquiry has not been resolved or you have further questions
regarding your PayPal account please call 1-402-938-3531.
Thank you for choosing PayPal!
If only because of their "customer service". I also got the impression they are not in control of their own system. Like the time I had to change something on my account, and I filled in the form, and wanted to click the Submit button -- there was no submit button.
This is like PAM-OTP, which I like very much. One-Time-Passwords would be an awesome way to manage credit card purchases; like say, you need to be certified to handle a credit card, but you can withdraw X dollars max no matter who you are via a OTP. If this was implemented I could tell, say, Mastercard, "Generate 15 passwords for me: 5 $5, 5 $50, and 5 $100," and then use those to OTP out purchases. If I use a $100 password to buy a $75 item, $75 is charged and that password is invalid; if I try to use it to buy a $110 item, $100 is charged and I owe $10 to the seller.
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If this works here in Germany I'll be mighty happy. I do not have a credit card, since a debit card works better here.
There are some things I might occasionally need a credit card for (mostly Pearson exams). My Dad won't let me uses his so a one-time card would be just the thing.
-- Put crudely, the world is an extremely large problem instance. (Russel/Norvig Artificial Intelligence)
Paypal is not a bank.
Paypal is not a savings and loan.
Paypal is not a retail store.
Paypal is not an insurance company.
Paypal is not a manufacturing company
Paypal is not an exchange of any kind.
Paypal is not a foundation committed to a cause.
What argument could then persuade me to trust them with money that is most certainly NOT virtual?
I'm not someone with a cross to bear. Paypal has never screwed me over, and the idea of paypal is very appealing. However, the practices of Paypal have been and are egregious for very little benefit to the average consumer. Even as a small business owner, the appeal of Paypal as it currently operates is scant.
Just mod me as flamebait, I guess. In the immortal words of Tom Hanks in Big, I don't get it!
.nosig
Paypal has had that feature working with any browser, without installing any BHOs (or whatever the IE only software is they require now), and without having to be invited to the beta. Just go to https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/shop/v debit/
This feature has been around for years and years.
I could've sworn Pay Pal did this sort of thing years ago. I certainly remember using it long before I got the Pay Pal card or could use my normal bank cards for debit.
That's what popped into my ming reading your post.
Still, you're correct. Paypal is about the last corporation I would trust with my money. I have an account which I use for ebay purposes, and it's liked to a small, lightly used checking account separate from my "real" account. I never pay with instant transfer, always using a CC as an intermediary.
As for OTU numbers - I loved them when I had them. Amex canned their program years ago. Visa/MC don't have a system wide program, and my card of choice - Chase - doesn't offer it. I have a discover card for the business, but that's pretty much only because I hate carrying cash at Sams, and I value my money too much to play Debit-roulette with my bank account (if someone scams my CC#, I want it to be somebody else's money they take, not mine).
I'd use OTU numbers exclusively online if I could - the extra "inconvenience" is trivial, imho. Hell, I'd use OTU numbers for physical transactions if I could.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
what about online gambling, if this one-time CC number works like real ones does that mean i should be able to gamble with my money *from* paypal ?
Shame on PayPal for making this look like they have enabled PIN debit transactions over the Net. PayPal worded this VERY intentionally to make people in the transaction processing world pay attention; by calling it a virtual debit card the implication is PIN debit transactions.
This is just a copy cat of Citibanks long-standing program of temporary numbers.... and that systems works well.
YAWN.
I was thinking when I saw this that there would be a card directly from ones paypal account to the real world through mastercard's access channels. Now THAT would be sweet, at least for me.
Back in the day, before any banks had gotten clueful, we used First Virtual. Each transaction required an email confirmation, which was nice for security, but probably too big a pain in the posterior. It didn't last very long.
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. (Isaac Asimov)
Only supports IE. It has no Firefox support, ATM
There's a huge difference between a credit card and a debit card. A debit card transaction affects the balance of your bank (or paypal) account. If there's a fraudulent charge, that money is gone while it's investigated. Eventually you'll get it back, but what if the fraud causes your rent or mortgage check to bounce?
This happened to me once, it unleashed a cascade of bounced check fees. I got it all straightened out eventually, but I would much rather had taken 5 minutes to get a one time card number instead of the several hours it took to fix the mess that was made of my accounts.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
There's a huge difference between a credit card and a debit card. A debit card transaction affects the balance of your bank (or paypal) account.
You should *never* use a debit card *anywhere*. Why you might ask? "But they are so popular! Everyone is doing it!"
Just wait until a drunken bartender, rushed register clerk, or malicious waitress adds an extra digit to your transaction and you're suddenly bouncing checks or being charged fees for your overdraft protection.
why is the rest of the world not keeping up? Because I have very little use for one of these? My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges and I'm not worried in the least if someone uses it two states away for gas. If Chase makes me call them when I'm going outside of my "home area" so they don't shut me off, then I'm not concerned if someone steals the card number after I make a purchase online at Newegg. If someone uses the card locally, big deal. I call Chase and tell them that the card was stolen and the charge wasn't mine. Not many questions asked. For *most* people, they just aren't paranoid enough to use a one time number for their purchases.
I wouldn't leave home wihout it (through B of A) When I pay for something online with a virtual CC, I can turn it off at any time. So when it comes time to cancel a service that's been billing me for a while, I first turn off the credit card number, then cancel the service.
They can go pound salt if they want any "early termination fees", or plan on charging me for another six months due to "billing problems"
You can't do that with a real CC number.
Your points are right on, and that scares me as someone who uses one every day. What I like about my debit card is that all my transactions appear immediately online. Seriously, I can refresh the page immediately after making an online transaction and it's there. Also, I don't have to worry about paying the bill.
Does anyone know of a credit card with smart and fast online access and excellent fraud protection? Automatic bill pay would be nice too, but then it might be similar to a debit card.
What I like about my debit card is that all my transactions appear immediately online.
Except for gas purchases made at the pump -- $1 anyone? But yes, that is a convenient thing about them but even if they appear there as "pending" it could have already hit your account and overdrawn it even if it hasn't hit the actual account (we have experienced that and now have overdraft protection to stop that from happening again for the reasons I listed above).
As someone who loves debit for the same reason of being able to see the results immediately...I was extremely pissed when rentacoder tried authorizing a $200 payment 4 times instead of once and my rent check bounced, among other $1-2 transactions causing in excess $200 in overdraft charges.
Oh yeah. I believe my debit card is maxed at $400 a day. I know I was turned down when I tried to buy an Xbox 360 on it. So, as long as I check my balance often, I shouldn't be bouncing rent checks. How about yours?
I don't expect this to last very long. You used to be able to buy "Internet" cards at local convenience stores that operated like a gift card (or phone card), you put a specific amount of money on it and used it online like a credit card. It was a great idea and gave excellent peace of mind to people who wanted to buy stuff online.
To make a long story short, the major credit card companies ran these "upstarts" out of business.
Maybe in today's world of online identity theft and fraud, these cards can make a return. But I think that the established credit card empire will crush this attempt at competition as swiftly as they did the first time.
Yeah, I can see myself signing up to give Paypal access to my credit cards or bank accounts just for the privilege of keeping my credit card number away from untrustworthy, unscrupulous merchants who are out to steal my mon....
Wait a minute. Oh-ho-ho! Nice try, Paypal! You almost got me there. Whew!
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Daily max for my debit card is $3000.
That /must/ be a bank thing. My debit transactions can still take a day to show online. I'll see the total amount I have available drop, but it may be 24 hours before I see where the transaction was made.
I imagine there are some banks out there which can do the same for a credit card.
I've stopped using it though after a rather unpleasant incident where the online vendor (ETS) did not perform the transaction immediately, but instead waited for 2 working days to debit the amount. The one time card is not meant to last for that period of time (quite obviously, otherwise there would be little safety). The transaction was denied and I was charged an additional 20$. The nice folks at ETS refused to allow another GRE registration till I paid up the extra fee.
I'll stick to the normal credit card , particularly when the purchases are valuable.
this little venture will take off like a Saturn V rocket with a barrage of strapon scramjets.
I personally support any paradigm that warrants an analogy with 'strapons'.
$30 Off All Plans: Use code TRIPLESAWBUCK
I had this happen with my old Mortgage company. Double charged my debit card on the first month after a refinance.
I called them and they said it would be a 1-3 month investigation and they'd return the money. I said screw that, called my bank and had the money back in my account in less than an hour. Explained to the teller on the phone what happened she saw the two identical charages and reversed one. I never heard anything back from that. That was about 3 years ago and I got out of that mortgage company.
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
In fairness, the throw-away credit card number part should be fairly decent as far as online shopping goes.
I used to have an actual credit card that had this feature (MBNA bank if anyone is interested, highly recomended.)
They had it where you could use the app on the webpage, or download what appeared to be a flash standalone app that did the same thing.
It would generate a credit card #, exp date (of your choosing, min 1 month in advance rounded to the end of that month) and the 3 digit code. You could also set a limit on that card.
Once it was charged to by someone, the number was locked to that vendor, and only they could make future charges to it.
You can also go in and shut it off at any time prior to the expiration.
The idea is, in the automated way a charge is made to the card, and even if it is stored, stolen, or sniffed along the way, anyone ELSE trying to use that number after the automated charge would get denied.
Also the store itself would get denied if it tried to charge over the limit, or past the expiration or when you disabled the number.
It was a feature I used quite alot.
The only downside here is the fact its PayPal and not a real bank. So kudos for them adding a good feature, but booo for them still being paypal and all the downsides that entails.
haha, parent said 'strapon'
Not the point. Sure, you're protected from fraud, but then if fraud is discovered they have to close the account which is a pain in the ass if you have recurring payments or pending payments. One-shot numbers prevent the hassle of having to essential switch to a whole new account.
I agree: better not to leave credit card numbers around, checking your bills becomes easier and you save lots of time and hassles. Using virtual cards is longer, but it's well spent for increased safety.
I always boot from live cd before doing any banking online btw.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
> Just wait until a drunken bartender, rushed register clerk, or malicious waitress adds an extra
> digit to your transaction and you're suddenly bouncing checks or being charged fees for your
> overdraft protection.
In the UK you have to sign the receipt, or enter your pin on a display with the amount clearly showing.
My bank has had this kind of service (called e-card) for a few years already. I can access it directly via the browser (java, works well in all OSes) or as a standalone client (windows only). It allows me to create "e-cards" for one-off charges, as well as for subscription fees. It's quite excellent; very useful and -able.
This is definitely not new. I have been using a PayPal virtual debit card to pay for my server costs for about 3 years. Recently it seems they took it off-line (so I went out and got a real debit card from them) possibly to create hype for something they have always offered...
Just a question, if I use one of these, do I merely incur virtual debts? If so, this is great, as I don't play any online games, so the virtual bill collector will never be able to find me!
Firefly-san, you may be right...
This "electronic credit card" has been existing in France for many years : my bank provided me with this service a few years ago : you log on on the web or you install a app on your desktop, and when you want to pay you ask for a new number.
You can event limit the amount paid for, and also pay with the same number a number of time (for monthly payments for instance).
Why on earth the US (and Canada, and a few others) are so retarded when it comes to banking ?
That's right folks... Paypal. The people who brought you trustworthy and hassle-free online banking, now want to install something on your computer. Nothing could possibl-ii go wrong.
Oh my. That's the first thing that's ever gone wrong. Hm, how about that?
(end hackneys Simpsons reference)
I'd love to yell and scream about this more, but unfortunately (and unfathomably), Paypal has wide market acceptance. Sure, BidPay is making inroads, but the sad point is that Paypal has become commonplace... so this will take off, and another round of unwitting saps will be rudely reminded that Paypal isn't really a bank, and they can do whatever the fudge they want.
Why hasn't there been a class-action suit yet?
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
It took me three (3) tries to get a real answer out of them, which was basically: "You'll have to contact the seller".
I don't email large companies specifically because of shit like that. In the unlikely event that you do get an answer, there's a good chance you won't get much further than where you started. One phone call later, issue resolved. Plus Paypal has a big call center 15 minutes from where I live so there's a somewhat decent chance I'm not going to get some doofus in Bangalore.
Debit card + overdraft protection at bank = problem solved without need for one-time number generator.
"But this one goes to 11!"
What are you? A freaking idiot who has never used a debit card?
Guess what: You have to enter a PIN to authorize the purchase if you use it as a DEBIT card. If you use it as a CREDIT card, you still have to authorize it by signing.
If you are moronic enough to drunkenly sign your credit slip or enter your PIN, you deserve to flush your money down the drain.
Which one were you using? The citibank one (at least the flash-based version I use because I'm not running windows) allows you to specify the expiration date, and I think it defaults to the end of the month.
You don't have overdraft protection on your checking account? Get with the times. If I overdraw my checking it just pulls $100 from my visa. No problems. I buy everything with my check card. No bounced checks. No fees.
nothing
In my example above, a disgruntled waitress who didn't appreciate your tip could add a larger sum to your actual tip value than you intended.
In the US, if your charges are under $25 you don't have to sign the receipt (it's becoming more and more common as people are not carrying cash and fast food is allowing charging). They could have made a mistake, not paid attention to it being $205 and you could go over.
Ad nauseum.
Well, here in Canada, the process of using a Debit card involves the mandatory use of an Interac-certified P.O.S. device, which prompts for you to confirm the total before you move onto choosing the account to draw from, etc. --In some cases, I've even seen the things programmed to prompt you for a tip amount, which you could then specify yourself directly.
If they steal your Paypal password, then what difference does it make. Obtaining a password via a keylogger/trojan is one of the most common types of credit card fraud. Seems to be a lot of a hassle with not much benefit, plus you can't use it at real stores.
HRESULT WinAPIGetSystemProcessThreadMetricsMenu...
LibraryVolumeModuleHandlePtrEx(PHSPTMMLVM PHndl);
I want something I can buy in a shop for cash, load up with a pre-paid amount and use online, throwing away when I'm done with it.
This may be what you want. Look for their non-personalized cards and never reload them as you have to give personal info to do so. I heard about this on a privacy-oriented site, but I've never tried them myself, so I don't know how hard it is to avoid giving personal info.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
So eBay refuses to accept payments from Google Payments because they own PayPal. How long will their "it's not proven to be secure" argument hold up before they are slammed with a lawsuit. I'm no lawyer but it sounds an awful lot like the stuff Microsoft got in trouble for in the past, except worse. At least with Windows you *could* download and install a third-party browser. With eBay they are choking off a specific form of payment, and you know it's because it would clearly damage PayPal.
nothing
My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges
Yeah, but this is paypal we're talking about...
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
You don't have overdraft protection on your checking account? Get with the times. If I overdraw my checking it just pulls $100 from my visa. No problems. I buy everything with my check card. No bounced checks. No fees.
My bank has a "loan" system for overdraft protection (and yes I do have it) but you are charged some minimal interest if it goes over.
True the interest can be a factor. That's my motivation for trying to keep on track with my checking. It is a bad idea to use the over draft protection on a regular basis.
nothing
My max is a little more than the cash I have in the bank. Which varies from $5-9k across the month.
Posted anonymously; some things I keep private.
I use this technology every time I must use a credit
card number online. The Swedish bank Swedbank offer
this and it works perfectly. Never fails. You set a
limit of funds and you have 1 month until it expires
and you can remove the card whenever you want to.
I've used PayPal Virtual Debit Card numbers since like 2002, it's been an option for YEARS.
My credit card company, Citibank, also offers the same thing.
How is this new? Or interesting?
If spending 3 hours in fucking queue is your idea of an effective use of time, sure, calling paypal is a great idea.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
If waiting three business days for an automated response is more desirable to you, then go for it.
My credit card and money would more secure if I left it sitting on a Moscow park bench...
It certainly can be a big deal if you don't notice the fraudulent charge quickly, if Chase decides to investigate extensively, if you have to file police reports, dealing with card reissuance when you're travelling, if the episode makes its way onto your credit history, if the criminals continue to steal your identity in other ways, etc. Plus, the costs of credit card fraud end up being passed back to consumers as a group anyway. So you might not want to be quite so blasé about it.
But honestly, my main reason for using these systems is that I don't trust the vendor. Not 3rd party fraud. For example, many online media sites put in the fine print that they will retain your credit card number and try to charge you their then-current rates every year unless you remember in time to jump through all their AOL-style cancellation hoops. This isn't just porn sites -- the Wall Street Journal Online, Morningstar.Com, and various other sites try to do this to me. So I just make a temporary number for $120 or whatever the annual charge is. Then the "auto renewal" will fail in a year and they will have to actually ask me whether I wish to renew at their then-current prices.
I've been using MBNA's system, but I'm not so happy with them for other reasons. I'd be interested in hearing what other banks offer this feature in a convenient manner with a standard web-based UI. I'm certainly not going to run IE to use PayPal's system!
Also, it is probably true that I'm more paranoid than your average user.
-Fyodor
Insecure.Org
Amen to that. I also live in Canada and was going to post the exact same you did. Whenever a debit purchase is done, the amount shows up on the terminal. Not once have I ever seen an incorrect amount entered maliciously by anyone selling me anything, not even at a bar! It does help that they usually enter the amount right in front of you.
he one time card is not meant to last for that period of time (quite obviously, otherwise there would be little safety) you're a fucking moron. At a minimum, the Citibank cards are good for one month, or you can specify them to be good for up to 12 months if you want to use them for recurring charges. As for safety, once the virtual card has been used with a vendor, -only- that vendor can use that number. Again, in sum, you're a fucking moron.
Talk to your bank - USBank protects debit cards to the same standard that VISA does for credit cards (which, since USBank debit cards usually double as VISA-network cards, works out well). In fact, a lot of banks these days are stepping up to the plate and saying that they will not hold you accountable for fraudulent charges.
Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep in a shared include somewhere.
At Portugal there is MBnet - www.mbnet.pt, that creates a virtual credit card that has a short validity and maximum of money when create the Virtual CC. This works here for years.. it's a good service and all banks here use the same service.
Music is the sedative for mind...
Usually if you explain what happened to the bank, they will waive the fees. Ninety percent of the time they will waive them just by you explaining. Worst case, you'll have to do a lot of arguing, but it's still very likely you'll succeed. It depends on your bank, however my fiancee is a banker, and every bank she's worked at has instructed the reps to simply reverse the fees if there's even a hint of justification.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
The difference is, PayPal is not a bank, and goes to GREAT lengths to avoid being under any of the banking laws that protect you and me from companies, well... like PayPal.
They do a great deal of business catering to criminals, er customers that cannot get a credit card or a merchant account. Considering the criteria for both are trivial, that's saying a lot.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
and since paypal is involved, like with a strapon, someone is getting F&#ked in the ass
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
They've always had it. They just made the link too difficult to find.
The real news is that they are beta'ing a new version with the random number generator for the CV2 code that many websites ask for. This way even if they have your CC number and your old CV2 card the transaction won't go through since it changes after a purchase. Preventing duplicate purchases or thieves using your number.
Hmmm... Pie...
I shopped with a Paypal Virtual card a few times a few years ago. Then it kind of disappeared fromi the Paypal site without any notice.
I'm not sure what's different now.
Yup, I was using PayPal virtual credit card numbers well over 2 years ago. Has something changed about the feature?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
It used to work in any browser. The change they've made is to make it so it only works in IE on Windows. Major downgrade.
Not that I can find any kind of feedback address...
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I'd mod you off-topic, if I weren't laughing so hard.
Hearing WaMu gives me shivvers. I know its off-topic but a word of advice -- WaMu, in my experience, is an absolutely wreckless company. They purchased my local bank in their buy-out binge. During the post merger integration, they converted my beneficiaries into account joint owners. The statement didnt reval this, but the beneficiaries all got tax notices for the interest. Worst, my brother lost his financial aid for having "too high a balance." Despite showing the records to WaMu, they refused to fix the issue or even write an explanatory letter on his behalf. We know someone who lost her social security benefits because her son (and thus her according to WaMu's filings) also had "too much" in the bank. Same bank's takeover. To add insult to injury, WaMu also took over our mortgage company and lost the escrow account after the final payment. They kept saying "if you have an issue with a Fleet Mortgage account, call fleet." Dumb f*cks -- they purchased Fleet, I cant call fleet. It took 1.5yrs and a letter to the OCC to get the escrow payment. Luckily we had the liquidity to float that amount...or we'd fall behind on prop taxes! In any case, dont take my word for it, look at Attorney General filings and BBB. I closed my WaMu accounts. I give the same advice to all my friends.
All the gas stations i go to have $50 pending instead of $1.
:|
One station ( i forget what company) has both
I follow the SDK and GDN principles.. Spelling Dont Kount, Grammer Dont Neither
paypal had this service several years ago then droped it apperantly just to bring it back
1. It doesn't support proxy. When failing to connect to their server it doesn't show adequate error message
2. It creates a foolish toolbar in the IE which occasionally blinks without any need for that, it can't be turned off.
3. It kills IE without asking when installation is running. Bizarre !
Somebody doesn't know much about proper UI. Shame on your Paypal, you can do better than that.
Uninstall.
That's funny. Here in Portugal we have a service like that running for more than 4 years now, and you only need a Portuguese debit card (Multibanco). This service has 2 major differences :
1. It generates VISA virtual cards (including the 3 digit security code) with a given limit amount. I think VISA if by far the most used online payment card.
2. The entity that runs the service is a central company that happens to run the visa network in Portugal so much more reliable than paypal.
I've been using this service for 2 major reasons:
1. No need to ask the bank for a credit card.
2. Security, the virtual card is only valid for a short period of time and you say the maximum amount you want it to authorize.
I am an avid ebayer - and lets face it, without Paypal, you're not going to get very far trading on ebay. So I use Paypal out of necessity (yeah, I know i'm sad) and yes, I feel sick just thinking about it!
Putting ridiculous fees, poor customer service, and numerous loop holes aside - I just don't trust them! From my experience, you are never actually 'covered' as they keep telling us, and when you do get bitten by a scammer - you may as well just bang your head against a brick wall instead of trying to get your money back from them!
I for one, would never CHOOSE to use them. They are another one of these big corporations who just don't care about the little people, but expect everyone to log on and happily give over all their credit card details.... and then charge them for the privilege.
http://www.paypalsucks.com/ anyone?
Without ebay, Paypal would come tumbling down in seconds. No wonder ebay are making excuses to block google payments and alike!
morehawes
In Portugal we've had for the last six years a similar system. And most people here make ALL their payments over 10 using a debit card, since all banks use a common system.
The thing is, if there's a fraudulent charge on your credit card, you just don't pay for it while it's being disputed, and you aren't out any actual money. With a fraudulent charge on your debit card, YOUR money from your checking account is gone until you dispute the charge and get the bank to put it back. So while in the end you still get your money back, what happens in the meantime can be a major PITA - like the comment about "bouncing checks" in the GP.
I'm working for a company called ViA, and they have a different solution for this problem. They have an idea where they encrypt a transaction string in different layers so only the people that needs the information gets access to it. So if you use your card at some site they won't get your credit card number since they don't need it. That part of the transaction will be encrypted. They also have solutions to other problems that has been brought up here on slashdot like the problem with VISA shutting down all transactions to AllofMp3.com. Since it's a new company the website might not be all what you would like it to be, but things are changing fast so if anyone is interested in the idea you can visit http://www.via.ae/via.ae and check it out.
Wins award for best simile of 2006!
If you sign a contract that obligates you to pay a fee for early termination, and you terminate early, then you still owe that fee whether your credit card approves or declines the transaction. So, for instance, if you sign up for a 2 year mobile phone plan (seems like they are the most notorious for these early termination fees) with a $175.00 early termination fee, and you terminate after 1 year, you owe the company $175.
If the company cannot collect via the credit card that you provided, they are certainly within their rights to collect that fee via the legal system. You will be in the unenviable position of trying to explain to a small claims court judge why you are willfully violating a crystal-clear term of a contract that you agreed to. At they very least, the company will turn your account over to a collection agency.
In fact, even in the "billing problems" situation, the company will probably still turn you over to collections since according to their (buggy) computer, you owe them money. It's gonna be a hassle for you either way.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I wonder if this will be a work around for that.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
But the landlord is still going to charge a bounced check fee and late payment fee and insist on certified funds in the future (so you get to pay for a money order or cashier's check)
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Have you pulled your credit recently? Are you sure there isn't a problem on your report?
:)
I'd suggest that you look at your credit report and have a look-see. (that site is the official place to get your free report... based on the federal law that says they have to give you a free report every 12 months... in other words, you won't have to pay for it or get spyware or anything).
If there are any negative entries, get 'em cleared up if they're false. If they're true, then you get to wait 7 years and they fall off automatically.
Assuming no serious negatives, I'd suggest you get a bank account with a debit card. That will normally show up on your credit report and start establishing your credit. At the very least, it will get you a free Visa card.
Good luck!
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Finally, a prepaid-ish card you can use as a credit card. Having my credit destroyed by a divorce, I was looking for a prepaid credit card; unfortunately, the only options seemed to be offshore banks, and upon a bit of research, they all turned out to clearly be ripoffs (taking your $100 deposit and leaving you in the lurch). (Being without a credit card was liberating in some ways, always living within your means; but for online purchases, restauraunts, etc., a credit card can be very handy.)
I love the idea of putting money on a debit card, that can be used as a credit card. Hopefully this paypal offering will offer Mastercard-like (and not paypal-like) handling of problems and concerns, and also be available in Canada.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Not bad, I've seen some of these before. The idea is to create a virtual version of the Encrypting PIN Pad (EPP) that most (well, should be all soon) ATMs use. The PIN pad runs as a Java applet on the client computer, and sends only an encrypted PIN block to the processor. The processor forwards this encrypted PIN block upstream to a financial institution as a normal ATM would. However, this solution is not as good as a real EPP for a couple of reasons
Despite the problems, however, I'd like to see more development in this area.
mandelbr0t
"Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
Well, It's not a virtual Pin Pad. You have a real https://www.via.ae/index.php?id=shop/Key Pad that generates a secure string that's enctrypted in several layers so only people that needs the information has access to it. This has not been done before since they have a patent for it.
So I actually need to buy a PIN pad for home use now?!
Seriously, we're talking about a solution for a home user. While there are obvious benefits to EPP-based security, I hardly think it's worth the expense for online shopping when the free solutions compromise very little in the way of security. By the way, is the pad Visa/PLUS certified? What about gateway services: who supports your pad? The link you provided didn't work.
mandelbr0t
"Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
Right, I didn't say everything would be honky dory, I was just pointing out a way to lessen his pain, especially when he got rocked with $200 in fees.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
You get the Pad for free of course.