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Piracy Outstripping Legal Video Sales?
b.burl writes to tell us a recently released report by the NDP Group supports the horror stories being fed to us by studio execs, but not quite in the way those execs would have you believe. The study shows a continued rise in video piracy compared to legal video sales. The largest target continues to be adult oriented content and TV shows, with only an estimated 5 percent being mainstream movie content. From the article: "[A]mong U.S. households with members who regularly use the Internet, 8 percent (six million households) downloaded at least one digital video file (10MB or larger) from a P2P service for free in the third quarter of 2006. Nearly 60 percent of video files downloaded from P2P sites were adult-film content, while 20 percent was TV show content and 5 percent was mainstream movie content."
Why you think the net was born?
Porn! Porn! Porn!
#1 cause of computer literacy among 18-24 males.
And this is a crying shame.
I download television show content myself. What I can get on iTunes, I get on iTunes and pay $2 per show, or buy a whole season at a time. What I can't, I seek elsewhere, including P2P networks. I don't download movies at all, because I can simply get them on DVD.
The fact is that I'm not going to pay $50 a month for cable or satellite for something that's, frankly, not worth that much to me. Television and movie studios can either get compensation for their stuff by making it available to me in a manner I want (iTunes/timely release of DVDs), or they can get bupkiss when I download it for free, an option that I'd really rather avoid, to be honest.
If, god forbid, the industry succeeds somehow in making television shows impossible to download, then I simply won't watch their stuff at all. Most of it has that little value to me.
It's all so stupid. I can't believe there's an industry out there that is so desperate to stop the pirates that they're willing to forego billions of dollars, yet here we are, living it.
If someone gave you the choice of making $1 billion for making a television show, but the show is pirated to an extent such that over half the people who watch it don't pay you, or making $500 million for making a television show with little or no piracy of it at all with a much, much smaller audience, which would you prefer?
Yeah, me too. Stupid, huh?
As for porn, I don't care. I've only seen a few porn movies myself, and I don't find them exciting. I honestly think that porn is one of those things that everyone thinks they're supposed to be really into, so they watch it and act like it's a big deal; but realistically, once you've seen one, you've pretty much seen them all. People get naked and do it, ho hum. Check out this other one where... Um... People get naked and do it, ho hum. But you know, whatever. I guess if there's anything I don't understand about that is why people still buy DVDs or the naughty channels on cable when they can pretty much get anything they want over the Internet.
So it's like 60% of porn p2p downloads?
:-D
Those porn actors should not complain about loss of sales, they get busy each and every day for hours! Who are they to complain!
Dependency hell? =>
No kidding...
especially since it costs $8.50 to see some movie in the theater that is either going to be either crappy or a bad remake of some other movie...
and it costs nearly $5.00 to rent a movie now.
GO PIRACY!
10MB is still well within the range of the size of videos porn sites flood the net with as teasers to get people to go pay for the full-length stuff on their websites. Just because it's being downloaded for free via P2P doesn't mean it's piracy or illegal, it may be precisely what the publishers of the content wanted.
The Internet is for porn! (What NDP wrote!)
The Internet is for porn! (I shake my Wiimote!)
Wii up all night honking our horn
To porn, porn, porn!
I don't generally see porn movies on the p2p sites.
There are a few which have general keywords coming up in the search clouds, but on the whole its tv shows and general movies which are big (and on some its languages, like "French").
Take a look at one such cloud which does include adult keywords, but they are dwarfed by big budget tv.
liqbase
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxkF6EKk8LY
Porn Porn Porn
From the Article:
> "[A]mong U.S. households with members who regularly use the Internet,
> 8 percent (six million households) downloaded at least one digital
> video file (10MB or larger) from a P2P service for free in the third
> quarter of 2006.
Bullshit.
Done.
That only 4.8% of internet users downloaded 10 MB of internet porn? I feel like thats a conservative estimate... well...*cough*, I wouldnt know
Nearly 60 percent of video files downloaded from P2P sites were adult-film content, while 20 percent was TV show content and 5 percent was mainstream movie content.
Only 60 percent? The fact that the amount of porn being downloaded is nowhere near the 90% mark surely spells doom for the mainstream tv & movie industry.
Push Button, Receive Bacon
Generally, movies are more easily available for purchase than TV shows, which might explain a lot about these findings. It would have been very nice if NPD could subdivide their categories into content which is available online or on DVD, and that which is not. Then we could see the extent to which legal distribution channels cut piracy.
Blockbuster doesn't carry pr0n, neither does Wal-Mart. Besides, your neighbors are at Wal-Mart.
I think TV series are in the position that VHS movies were 15 years ago. Back then, movies cost 80$ US, and nobody bought them. When the price came down to the 20$ range, they started to sell. I think many people feel the same about TV series. At 80$ a season, they're not going to sell. I mean, after all it's just a TV show. If the prices came down to the 30$ range, I bet more people would buy them because they're major fans, or to watch the two episodes they missed.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
The fact is that I'm not going to pay $50 a month for cable or satellite for something that's, frankly, not worth that much to me.
I agree, and this is why Free-to-Air satellite, and the dismal excuse for basic cable that Comcast gives me are okay options. I record those things of interest with my MythTV Knoppix distro. While there aren't that many science fiction shows, I am quite satisfied to watch whatever comes across the airwaves, like ST:TNG, and the weekly episode of Farscape. I can't justify spending an additional $40-$80 per month for expanded cable -- I just don't watch that much TV, and I generally don't care to have the latest and greatest shows.
That being said, there are a few movies that I haven't seen yet, which I record and watch at my leisure. We do have a Netflix account, which satisfies any other desire to watch anything else. Besides, I spend my days in front of a monitor, I'm not so interested in sitting in front of a TV when I get home.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
when ever i'm cleaning spyware, there usually is a limewire/bearshare/kazaa icon on the desktop (along with the ie icon, always!); and in their documents/temp folders a half-dozen or so porn clips of the same content type/category (and usually of the same format, for some reason); usually just one film, and a hundred or two incomplete/bogus song downloads. nowdays i'm seeing an itunes folder on those machines on a regular basis as well -- but i don't take the time to see if those songs were bought or not, maybe i should, and then i could publish my own report!
i disable sigs
Pirate that I am, I evilly downloaded the first three episodes of Heroes because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. The videos I downloaded had had ALL THE COMMERCIALS REMOVED! No revenue for you, NBC!
Of course, as a result, my wife and I sit down and watch Heroes on NBC every week, including commercials (we don't watch enough TV to need a TiVo). If we hadn't been able to illegally download those videos, we'd likely not be watching the show OR the commercials.
So I ask: Did it benefit or hurt NBC that I illegally downloaded and watched the first three episodes of Heroes?
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
The MPAA is constantly whining, wasting millions of dollars, and annoying all of us over 5 percent? I made the mistake of buying a DVD recently and had to sit through that annoying anti piracy clip. You know... "You wouldn't steal a car would you? You wouldn't steal a purse..." Yeah, because stealing a car, and copying a DVD are even remotely the same. Its frustrating and insulting that every time I watch my PURCHASED DVD, this stupid thing will come up. I don't like being accused of stealing, before watching my movies. Ironically, if I'd have just pirated the movie, I wouldn't be seeing that clip, as well as other annoying previews. Maybe they should concentrate on making good movies to win over new customers, instead of insulting remaining customers.
v. to outdo; surpass; excel.
I don't think this word means what you think it means. To outstrip legal downloads, piracy would have had to been behind first, which is a preposterous claim.
You can tell it's geeks and nerds doing the downloading.
I admit I rent old movies and copy them. I would voluntarily pay a royalty on the media. I have unusual tastes and could not find these movies in the bargain bin at WalMart. I have never Torrented a new release. I have never hosted MP3's with a P2P application. I am a weak pirate. Yar.
for P0rn?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I downloaded an episode of Battlestar Galactica off a p2p network to see what all the fuss was about. Now I watch the show every week, have bought the miniseries and first season for myself and others, bought several episodes on iTunes, and have rented season 2 and 2.5. I've spent a lot of money on BSG, all because I pirated an episode.
The thing about pirating video is that you are probably going to want to see it on a larger screen with a nice sound system. Most people don't have that kind of gear hooked up to a computer, they don't want to sit at a desk and listen to tinny sound. They also don't want to go through the trouble of hooking a computer up to a home theater or figure out how to get a video file to play in their DVD player. So they are like me, they might download a few things to see if they like them, then if they do they go out and buy it.
Why is downloading TV shows illegal? They are broadcast for free on the tv anyway, and I just fast forward at 5X through the commercials on my DVR, so I don't see them anyway. Why are they pissy about tv shows being bad to download, oh no! someone might actually watch their show! I agree about porn being up there, its because its expensive and not at common rental places or stores
Oligarch #1: There seems to be a trend towards downloading content...
Oligarch #2: Really, wow, what should we do about that? Leverage the new technology to our advantage?
Oligarch #1: Naaa, lets bury our head in the sand and pretend its not happening! That way we dont have to do any actual work and can continue to skim traditional channels for the bulk of the cash!
Oligarch #2: Cool, and lets sue the internet!
Oligarch #1: Yeah, that will work! Kinda like our "fart vs thunder" collegues in the RIAA!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
...and it is incredibly addicting. Xbox live media download has serious flaws (lack of content, lack of chapters, etc.) but it is incredibly easy to use. I've already spent $60 on there due to just being bored and having instant (well, within 5 minutes) gratification. I've since toned down my purchases, but that $60 is more than I've spent all year on DVDs and CDs.
I believe once content providers use and improve on this model pay pay to download content will approach or surpass illegal downloads.
Seeing what the answer to that question will explain why piracy is doing better than legitimate sales.
As soon as they put the videos online for sale and download without DRM and a standardized format (Divx or Xvid), I think you will see a dramatic change.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Stolen? As in, somebody got onto the studio lot, entered the writer's office/cubicle and physically removed a sheet of paper/diskette/stone tablet with the only copy of the ideas (which the writers had already forgotten, having cast their one script spell per day)?
Perhaps I take that word "stolen" too literally, but doesn't stealing typically involve depriving someone of their property? AFAIK, the studios haven't physically lost anything - perhaps TFA's orientation/bias shows through? To me, this article looks like the *AA trying to reaffirm their argument that downloading media content is theft.
The *AA has been saying all along that their losing hundreds of millions of dollars to piracy. When asked where they get those numbers, they produce figures which boggle the imagination (thousands of dollars lost for each MP3 I download? Hmmm...).
I almost sense the *AA trying to salvage their claims of being greatly harmed by internet piracy. Almost as though to say "Well, we exaggerated our claims in the past, but now everything we said before is coming true! See?! Soon, piracy will double or treble, and then what we've been saying all along will really be the truth!"
Incidentally, googling on NPD gives me the impression that they've gamed Google. The Wikipedia article on NPD was last updated within the month. I just don't see a lot of credibility for TFA, or for the NVD.
Most Slashdotters are immune to this argument by now. But for the newcomers - welcome, and let the trolling commence!!!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
This is bad news for the distro companies in adult enterainment, but a winfall for the porn stars and even the production companies.
Moral of the story, being there live is always something worth paying for, Otherwise, it should be free unless someone builds a tap into the brain.
The metric is asinine to the nth degree. Who buys 10 minutes of video at a store? Basically, they are talking about people watching YouTube videos and calling them "illegal" because they might be clips of SNL or the latest South Park.
A real metric would be measuring how many people downloaded FULL PROGRAMS and BURNED THEM TO DISCS for permanent storage.
They might as well claim everybody who uses NetFlix and BlockBuster is a pirate, too, since they rent movies, as well.
5% of the 8% of only the percentage of households that are regular interenet users downloaded a movie content file over 10mb with no distinction made as to whether it was a trailer or not? And that's before we consider it's just as likely one kid in the house and everyone else living there never sees it.
Sweet Jesus, how will the U.S. movie industry survive if almost a quarter of one whole percent of Americans refuse to buy in to their revenue model?
That adds up. I mean, think about it. It's a mighty... hmm, still under a million dollars on the biggest movies of all time and the cost of a box of popcorn from the profits of the latest Owen Wilson movie.
I download the occasional tv show, when I happen to be busy when the show I like is broadcast or I fail to tivo it. IMHO if the Execs would look at the big picture they would find that it probably increases revenue rather than lessens it. Take 24 for instance, its a show where you pretty much have to see every episode, if I miss one I download it. The alternative is to wait until the season is over and buy the box set, which I do anyway. When I miss a show or several episodes and cant find a torrent, I generally just stop watching until the box set is available so they loose my eyeballs the rest of the season. Usually somewhere in between the missed show and the dvd release I tend to loose interest and forget about it, so they loose even the dvd revenue. This is what happend with me and Lost, I watched all of the first season, missed almost a month of season two and the only torrents I could find were unbearably slow so I just stopped watching. I had every intention of getting it on DVD but found another show I liked that was on at the same time so I still havent bothered.
I dont have an IPod and dont care for itunes, but if I could buy a download at a reasonable price that was at a resolution viewable on my tv I would have no problem doing so. A few networks have at least figured out part of that, my son for example watches Ben10 on cartoon networks website for free regularly. Since its free he doesnt mind watching it on the computer, they flash banner ads so they get their ad revenue and everyone is happy.
For some reason the networks have a hard time accepting that times have changed the days of the whole family sitting down at 8pm to watch Ed Sullivan are long over, people are busier and have more diversions and distractions. Giving the viewing audience flexability is the future, the old ways will die, it might take a while and will be fought tooth and nail but its no less inevitable.
8 percent (six million households) downloaded at least one digital video file (10MB or larger) from a P2P service for free in the third quarter of 2006.
Free? Nonsense! I have to pay my ISP every month!
Nyuk nyuk nyuk!
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
So the $0 of piracy is outstripping (hah) legal sales? I guess n * 0 > 0 for large values of n...
Wow, people using the Internet to download TV episodes they missed, i.e., timeshifting, which is allowed by the Fair Use clause? and YET while users have been doing this for several years now, DVDs still sell? What's next, they'll discover that people will borrow books and videos from libraries *gasp* for FREE, while still buying their own copies of the videos and books from borders or amazon or another store? OH NOES!
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Ya know, I'm pretty skeptical of all these reports that show how downloading this and that has eaten away at video sales, CD sales, etc. Given the exact same set of data, executives on both sides of the argument could support whatever claim they were making...that downloads are helping sales, that downloads lead to future in-store sales, that downloads are hurting sales, etc. Taken a step further, there are infinite numbers of ways to collect this data, once again giving a bias to whichever argument you want to support. Let's not forget about that fine Forrester researcher who showed how iTMS sales were down over 60% based on his research of credit card sales only.
Execs need to face the fact we're in a new era now. They should be working on ways to support the sales of their movies/shows by providing means for the fans to watch them in every possible medium. Why do people download shows? Because a) they can't find the DVDs of shows they want yet, b) it's too damn expensive to buy a DVD especially if they want to simply check out the show before making the decision...and of course the obvious "I want it now and don't want to pay for it" reason. Still, given the choice, I'm sure millions of people would gladly pay for a legal, uncorrupted, virus free episode of their show if it was actually available to them. The studios are so intent in STOPPING illegal downloads that they don't bother looking at why people are doing it in the first place...all when they could be providing yet another revenue stream for their business simply by providing a new way to get to their content.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Uhhh, I don't know what planet you're living on, but here on Earth, porn is VERY popular, if anything, MORE people are fans of it than care to admit. The whole beauty of Internet porn is the SHEER variety of it all. Seen one, seen 'em all? I could say the same thing about Chinese people, but that would be just ignorant, wouldn't it? If you're not into porn, and it's "all the same to you", that's fine and dandy. I can't fathom why people like professional football so much. Seen one game, seen em all, right?
Most TV shows are broadcast to a particular region at whatever time and day, then the networks like to arbitrarily rearrange schedules, preempt, etc. It's no wonder that DVRs and downloading are so popular. The moral issue gets hazier to me too--is downloading a TV show really any worse than taping/DVRing it? Am I "stealing" from the advertisers that paid to put in commercials that I fast-forward or don't even see in certain cases? What about watching the show live, ads and all, but not purchasing anything from the advertisers? I'd be perfectly happy paying $2/episode on iTunes and ditching cable--I'd probably save quite a bit of money. I imagine the forthcoming iTV will streamline this and let me order such shows & movies just like on-demand services from the cable company.
I hope the industry gets the hint--customers are already doing this in large numbers, there's already a market. Rather than take the usual response of "We must stop them all AT ONCE!!" monetize it. Put every darn show you produce on iTunes the second it's first broadcast.
How many would carry various fetish videos, and how many people want to be seen renting or buying such videos?
Compare that number with the people that actually do watch such videos.
A) I'd suspect that people would find most fetishes are fairly common
B) People still wouldn't want to be seen renting it.
Downloading TV episodes you "missed" is not timeshifting as was ruled fair use under Betamax.
Receiving it through the regular broadcast means and recording it yourself is timeshifting. Getting a copy from someone else who recorded it, edited it from the format it was broadcast (say, by removing commercials) and made it available to you is something completely different.
compared to legal video sales. The largest target continues to be adult oriented content and TV shows,
Pirated TV shows, eh? Anyone surprised? It's the content provider's fault, and its their problem. No sympathy here. The reason it's pirated so much is that there's no viable alternative. VERY few shows, except a few tokens available on iTunes (The Office, etc), can't be bought legally until the season finishes and the DVD comes out. If it comes out. Months later.
So let's say the DVDs come out. Most shows are $40 a season!! The few episodes available for download cost a whopping $1.99. So however I buy it, chances are, I'm looking at $2 per episode, for something I'm probably only going to watch once. What a ripoff! I mean, I really like Lost, but once you find out what happens in the end, there really isn't much value in rewatching it (IMO). Therefore, it's not quite comparable in value to me purchasing one of my favorite movies on DVD that I'll likely watch over and over again. Sure I could rent it, but that's kind of a pain in the ass. And that doesn't even address technical issues.
I buy my favorite music online, I can buy it in a format that doesn't suck. With mp3, it Plays for Sure (tm) on my iPod, or God forbid off-brand mp3 player. Let's say I decide to buck up for a DVD of one of my favorite TV Shows. Now I have to deal with DVD player region crap. Can I just put it on my PSP/iPod Video, etc? Apparently not. That seems to be illegal under the DMCA. Well, maybe if I pay extra money for it at the time of purchase. Sounds like a crappy deal to me.
So let's recap. I'm a (relatively) honest consumer looking to watch my favorite show because I missed it on TV. It's overpriced, I have to wait as long as months to get it, it's overpriced, I'm probably only going to watch it once, it's overpriced, it comes in a crappy format, and I can't copy it (legally), and I can't put it on my mobile device. Piracy to the rescue! Any questions?
Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
"Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
I downloaded all the seasons of Futurama and Stargate, but you know what else I did/am doing? That's right, I'm buying the expensive box sets. Timeshifting is legal, fair use, etc. plus I PAY for the programming (Cable premium channels) so whether I set my VCR, TV app, or download it, what the hell is the difference? It all comes down to timeshifting. They should kiss my feet because I am buying the box sets after legally timeshifting every season of those shows.
OH NOES, THESE PEOPLE MIGHT DECIDE TO BUY THE DVDS!!! ZOMG PIRACY!
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Everyone knows the internet is for porn.
Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
How the hell does anyone compress a movie down to 10MB? A free trailer can be 10MB and downloading a free trailer isn't piracy, it is advertisement. Stupid idiots.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
The leap that the media industry makes is that these "downloads" are DISPLACING sales (zero evidence of this). I think that's bogus. For several years now I have neither bought nor downloaded audio music. If I stopped being able to find movies on torrents tomorrow, I guarantee you I would not go and buy the DVDs. I might go and rent them from my local small store for $2, but I sure as hell won't buy them.
My best guess is, the industry is facing decreasing sales as a result of declining quality and excessive prices that are way out of line with what the market is willing to pay. So they are suffering declining sales, while downloads are of course increasing. They would like to blame the lack of sales on the downloads, but it's not a 100% transition from one to the other.
According to the CCC, of the searches done for videos on P2P sites... * 63 percent of searches were for pornography * 10 percent of searches were for child pornography * 27 percent of searches were for copyrighted material It's a haven for illegal material of all kinds. Is P2P really worth it? There is no means for regulation of any kind, and a huge majority of the material is illegally downloaded. I think the torrent idea probably has less potential for abuse, and is more useful because corporations (like Novell) can provide links to their free software for no charge. Searching for Suse Linux in a non-torrent P2P application is not only likely to be more difficult to find, but also more likely to be a virus of some sort. The prices of music are ridiculously inflated, but people still deserve compensation for their work.
HRESULT WinAPIGetSystemProcessThreadMetricsMenu...
LibraryVolumeModuleHandlePtrEx(PHSPTMMLVM PHndl);
Oh, you wouldn't believe the free* content I've downloaded and watched in the past month. Good grief there's probably enough to put me behind bars for years.
The amazing thing is that it's just so easy, and I even got a free* box to do it on! There's this website..I think it's okay to link it here that will give you the box that downloads literally tens of thousands of shows every month. It will store them so you can watch them over and over again. They'll even come to your house and set it up for you - in multiple rooms! They use wireless broadband (broadcast, whatever) to send you the files continuously, and you just tell it what you want to record. Unfuckingbelievable, I tell you, and it's all FREE*. Just $48 a month for all the normal free* stuff. Heck for a few bucks more a month you can get soft porn for free*, too (something called skinamax or some such).
Now, they also have some pay services - you can see the "newest" movies for $3-$5, and there's other porn for fee as well, but all the free* stuff. Wow. I hope the authorities don't find these guys out or I'm in big trouble.
*Free, as defined here, just as free goo-tube videos on Verizon phones, or as in monthly audio services. A bit of a stretch of the use of the word, but I'm certainly not paying per program or view as the industry would prefer.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Just in case anyone didn't know. It's a pretty funny musical.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Just watch them online. :) OK, it has advertisements but it's free beside that.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I'm pretty sure it's against company policy. They're run by Mormons or something.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Report is from NPD Group, well who are their clients ... EMI Music (a large RIAA member).
This is not an unbiased research firm, they are a marketing company and will serve the interests of their clients.
Probably just another arm of the RIAA/MPAA. I don't see how it would possibly serve this for-profit company's interests to say anything other than downloading is theft
So the MPAA is going crazy to restrict my ability to use my legally purchased content because (up to!) 8% of folks have downloaded a movie? 92+% of us are being impacted, through tax money spent on legal fees, disproportionately large lobbying/focus of congress and other agencies, political capital expended lobbying other countries for copyright/license restrictions, through draconian laws restricting our rights to fair use, because of that small of a base?
Come on.
I don't like the idea that folks are benefiting by being dishonest, when I'm shelling out bucks for stuff. That's one thing. But the idea that the MPAA et al (and companies like Apple, who are opportunistic benefactors) are going batshit to prevent me from watching video that I bought on iTunes on my D-link media center, or my DVDs on my iPod, etc because of a small fraction of folks just drives me nuts.
I understand that their bottom line is hit. No, I don't know where I'd draw the line (if it was 20% would I still be angry? 50%?). But they could have been expending all that effort driving new sales and profit by providing additional value, not by attempting to force us into their shaky business model...
Back in 1996, something similar to this conversation actually happened. This was when the Internet was really starting to take off, and the Media Moguls were really worried that free downloads would jeoparize their historic business model and wanted to preserve it at all costs.
I was working at Interval Research at the time (a Paul Allen funded attempt to clone Xerox Parc, which failed due to various bits of stupidity). The manager of our group (we were working on a precuror to the Palm Pilot) managed to get himself invited down to L.A. for a meeting of the heads of the biggest studios there.
According to our manager, the discussion went on and on about what could they do to stop the future piracy on the Internet. Out of this eventually came the DMCA law and other actions which are now well known.
At one point in the discussion, our manager piped up by asking "How about trying to figure a way of making money off of the Internet, instead of trying to stop it?". Utter silence followed for a while; then they went back to their original discussion. As we know, to this day they still haven't gotten their heads around that idea yet.
So yes, your comments are funny. But they are not far off from what actually took place.
Sales! I buy DVDs when they make it into the $5.49 bin at WalMart or the $7.50-9.99 bin anywhere else.* Bring'em home, rip'em**, copy'em to my server***, then put'em into a closet.**** I'm not big into extras or anything, and copying the VIDEO_TS folders would take up too much room anyway, so I'm happy to have one file per movie.
:-) I imagine it would also work with NetFlix discs.
:-) Rsync + cron = the poor-man's RAID.
I've also recently discovered that this method also works with DVDs from the library.
* There's no such thing as "I've got to have that video the day it comes out" for me. If I really wanted to see it, I saw it in the theater. I can wait a couple months for the price to drop. Plus, things like LOTR, etc.--you *know* they're gonna come out with 5 more versions and/or 2- or 3-disc sets. Wait and get the one you want.
** I rip them with HandBrake on Mac OS X to ~1500kbps, deinterlaced, 2-pass H264 MP4s.
*** Best Buy just had a great sale: 500 GB SATA Western Digitals for $149.99 out-the-door--no rebate required. My G5 now has 2.
**** thus the original DVD--the source material--becomes a 'backup.' (Front-up?)
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I agree. My problem with iTunes is that $2 per show (regardless of time) is just too damn much. That comes out to $40 per season for a 20 episode season. Well, on Amazon the DVDs run $20-30. On NetFlix they are a sunk cost. Why buy on iTunes?
... could you hurry up with DVDs of all the seasons of Amazing Race and more Hill Street Blues and St. Elsewhere? Come on man, that you can make a sale of off.
Now I was bored once and decided to try iTunes-Videos out, but I couldn't find anything I wanted to watch. And the more I searched the more the $2 per episode bugged me. A 1 hour show, $2. A 30 minute show $2. If I think $2 is too much for an hour show, why would I spend $2 on half that? They really need to make the price per hour, versus per episode.
I want to know how much revenue the TV stations get in advertising per hour, per viewer. I looked it up once and (while it wasn't easily available) I believe it was about $0.25 per hour per viewer. Why am I being charged 8 times that?
Look if you want me to buy something transient (iTunes) it should cost significantly less than if I buy it in a substantially permanent form (DVDs). Also if you want me to buy something with out extra features (e.g. closed captioning, commentary, etc., and once again I am looking at you iTunes) it needs to be cheaper than something with those features (DVDs). But it isn't, it is more expensive. So, I am not buying.
Plus, I don't have cable (once again, fails the price to reward test) and even disconnected my OTA attena in the last reorganization of my house. So, no chance of even watching anything that is broadcast.
I only watch about 6 shows (Stargate: SG/Atlan, BSG, AU's Next Top Model, Amazing Race) when they air. Those shows aren't even on at the same time (year-wise, not week/time-wise). I can't even get AU's NTM in the US. So, I'll keep downloading them. Really if I was forced to, I would wait for the SciFi shows to come on DVD (like I do for the HBO shows [Wire, Deadwood, Rome]).
And if you are in the TV industry
Sure I download the so called p0rn movies too and I also pay 29 to 39 dollars US to a pay site to get gigs of content... If the good p0rn movies (which are 90% of the ones being downloaded) would come down to the price of regular movies, I do not think that we would have a problem...
Also think about this.. p2p sites... how easy is it for minors to get the content as well... this might be another huge avenue.
It's not completely different... it's still a grey area that really hasn't been tested in court in terms of is it fair use or not?
But what is illegal about that transaction is the person offering it for download... they are not authorized to do so, and thus the person offering it is committing a blatantly illegal act. The person downloading the show is in the grey area that I suspect they could get out of if pressed hard enough.
If you exclude the specialist sites for TV (eg B**V)
and the specialist sites for porn (eg Ch****t)
and just look at the general sites
the most popular torrents are TV shows, then the porn.
Eg on
TB TV shows: 197, Porn:97
WM TV Shows: 408, Porn:154
The figure quoted 60% porn, 20% TV shows,
are just not credible.
It seems like an attempt to lay the groundwork
for some "thinkofthechildren" legislation.
Considering that I already pay Comcast loads of money for cable TV (because if you don't, they charge you just as much more in the cable modem bill). It is none of their business what I watch the shows on, whether it is on my TV or on my computer. Likewise, I see no difference between "downloading" a show to the TV screen and downloading it to my hard drive. Sure, there are no commercials on the P2P versions, but if I was going to watch it on the TV, I would have taped it first to skip over commercials anyway.
OK, if you are married and using porn behind your spouse's back, you'd be a fool to use a traceable form of payment.
Which is easier and has less chance of getting busted by the spousal unit?
Drive to the XXX bookstore and hope nobody sees you, and pay cash?
Figure out a way to buy E-Gold without the wife finding out, then use it?
Mail a money order to the online XXX store then buy things using your prepaid account?
No-pay using the internet tubes?
Bonus if you do the 2nd using a no-fingerprints setup line a Linux boot CD.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Piracy is when a person boards your ship, rapes your women (and men to be fair?), and steals
your crates of blank DVD's.
P2P allows information to be shared in an efficient way.
Though, with a near infinite copyright monopoly length,
all information tends to be owned by a corporation.
In this world, sharing modern information is mostly illegal.
I wonder if I will live to see the New Enightenment. Note that the first enlightenment came about when the Stationers Publishing monopoly was finally extinquished in Europe.
I've purchased and rented a few DVD's of TV shows, to find the soundtracks completely altered. The producers didn't already have the copyright permissions to include the songs in the non-broadcast format, and they didn't want to pay to acquire the rights.
The shows' impacts were significantly altered by this. In once case, songs had originally been well chosen to reflect the moods of scenes as well tying in current pop culture in a very relevant fashion. The DVD alternative soundtrack did neither -- just random mood, nobody songs that they picked up for a pittance. In another case, music was simply omitted and the show ended up with large tracts of acoustically empty scenery.
And, of course, in neither case was this alteration clearly identified up front.
Companies that do such things to their customers get little respect from me. I would suspect this is another reason people will sometimes download shows instead of purchasing the mangled, rip-off "official" product.
Just goes to show that the MPAA is being all the p0rn as well. Why else are they squealing?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
you forgot one:
Use your wife's porn account.
actually, n^0=1 for any value of n so, in fact, you are correct.
I have often wondered why folks just don't leave the commercials. It would seem that anytime a commercial is viewed whether through a downloaded version or on the air, it benefits the advertiser and station. Obviously folks could just skip ahead, but they can do that with Tivo.
I remember a debate about separating content and production from distribution. It seems that if producers (of music or video) were free to distribute their stuff through whatever vehicle they preferred, it might go a long way to improving download able versions.
Back in the (RIP) Buffy era, we citizens of Euroland had to wait over 6 months to see new episodes on our expensive premium digital satellite channels. So what did everyone do... tricky one this... download them.
It's not all bad though. By the time the DVD's came out, 6 months after they were shown on EuroTV, again 6 months after we all downloaded them, we'd forgotten all those little details. Result? Straight down to the shops to buy the DVD's.
everyone seems to overlook one interesting angle: do people eschew pr0n purchases because of the shame factor? pirated pr0n is anonymous, while paying for pr0n, be it a DVD purchase or a web site subscription, leaves an indelible mark on your credit card bill.
if "pr0n pirates" had access to perfectly anonymized credit, would they be less apt to pirate?
kieran hervold
Run the bastards into the ground. They brought this on themselves when they declared war on their customers.
Though i doubt its true, and i bet it is really just more 'spin' ( lies for you that are a slow ) to gain sympathy from the lawmakers for the next round.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
and how much of the TV show content was fansubbed anime that hasn't been brought overseas yet?
I live in South Korea. It is impossible for me to watch Lost or BSG without downloading it. I *might* use iTunes if the format was decent quality. If I use BT I can usually choose whether I want a kick ass quality file at 600 meg for a 1 hour show or fair quality at 300 or so megs. I usually end up about a day behind the shows airing in N America. Thank-you for BT or we'd be stuck watching two year old series or the 24 hour Startcraft channel (yes, it's real).
The pornagrapher should blame themselves as much as the pirates. First off, they peddle sleaze and do that rather sleazily. Who wouldn't feel squemish giving a porn site his credit card information. But, going beyond that, who is really wants to pay someone else to live out his sexual fantasy? Most of the porn I see on the net is just straight sex catering to some fetish. They get some tramp, had sex, and post it on the internet. No script!! But, it is just some idiot getting his jollies off and then asking you to pay for it. Then, there is absolutely no innovation in that industry. Porn is porn regardless of the site that produces it. Whatever they can produce for money, I can find for free on the internet either by p2p, bittorrent, or just free samples. In the end, they are selling sex so they should have no qualms about being fucked!!!
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
from the uk i download plenty of us shows,
in fact they're my main viewing,
why?
because they dont show them here, and the 50% they do they're 6 months behind.
if i could download them legally i would quite happily, but i cant.
dexter for one springs to mind, what a great show.
It is pretty much only in the US download for personal use is not only illegal, but punished with draconian law. In (much of) the rest of the world it is legal.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
What you can buy them now?
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
For me it's a matter of convience. I can fire up a p2p app and do a quick search and download the movies. My isp currently is offering 9.99/mo. for unlimited movie download, but it's for windows only and I run linux. If I was assured that there is no drm in them and they won't expire and they are of a better quality ie,.. HD-full screen and they make it availablle for my operating system and it's directely downloaded from their servers, then will I be glad to pay 9.99/mo. But until then, what choice do I have?
I think it was only a matter of time until this was officially stated. It isnt very suprising at all, and actually pretty logical if you stop to think about why this is so.
Non-technical reasons:
Downloading content, espectially movies is downright easy. At this point, with the popular and mainstream bit torrent programs, getting most pirated content takes little more than a single-click. Then just sit back and wait a short while. There are so many GOOD and FREE piracy search engines out there that you can pretty much find recently released pirated material nearly as fast as you could find it on Amazon. Legally, pirates are breaking the law and the penatlies can be extremely severe.... but the is virtually no risk! My friends pirates ridiculous amounts of material on an almost daily basis (almost only movies and TV shows). None of them has ever gotten caught, or even fears getting caught.
Technical reasons:
The bussiness model is almost perfect. Bit torrent in particular enables the ENTIRE burden and cost of distribution to be shifted to the end-users. Most end-users don't really care or understand that they are actually powering the piracy network with their own purchased bandwidth. And why should they? They've paid the ISP for the traffic. Mass disctribution via a central server on the other hand is just so damn expensive that DVD downloads can't yet be offered for less than you can purchase a DVD for.. not that it matters as anything is more expensive than free.
Pirated content is DRM-free. Enough said.
Pirated content is generally higher quality. I'm referrring to DVD rips or HDTV show rips. Since the pirates are not paying for the distribution costs, they have no problem using high-quality compression. Movie download service right now don't offer anything comparable in quality for a low price.
Pirated content is highly accessable. The torrent search engines run on ad revenue, and basically just index the contents of various torrent trackers.
This turned into a rant, so I am ending it here. Eventually (soon) somebody will come up with a solution that that will address all these issues and manage to design a VIABLE CHEAP, POSSIBLY FREE legal alternative to piracy that *works*. It will happen, always does. It won't eliminate piracy (which has always existed in some form), but the creators will probably become billionaires in a short time. Just my prediction.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
Okay... so this is the problem with bullshitting yourself.
;)
If you are going to do something illegal, you need to keep it clear in your head that what you are doing is illegal so you don't get stupid.
If you download by p2p, that means you upload. Uploading is infringement and that means you can be hit for multi thousand dollar fines/settlements.
I'm not saying what you are doing isn't morally okay. I'm not saying I haven't p2p'd things that I watched on TV. Or p2p'd things that I watched on TV, own the DVDs. Etc. I'm not saying I have either.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
The MPAA has done everything possible in order to NOT get any of my dollars. Nearly every film out is some formulaic droll foisted on a demographic that I am generally not a part of. Nor are any of my friends or family! So not only do they not generally OFFER things for which I can throw hard earned money away, the things they do offer that hold some interest are generally of such low quality acting (Keanu Reeves can NOT act), awful script (The last major blockbuster movie with decent dialog I can't even remember), and then they are charging way too much for it. I know a DVD costs like twenty five cents to make, including the box it comes in. I'm not spending $17.99 on some movie with no plot, no acting, no dialog, and no continuity, even on the rare occasion it IS about something I'm even remotely interested in, which is INCREDIBLY uncommon.
/ sr=8-1/qid=1167268342/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-4951360- 3451255?ie=UTF8&s=dvd. It's got a great script, plot, dialog, and acting.
I'm also definitely not going to a theater to watch it once, get way over charged for soda and popcorn, and probably sit by somebody who doesn't turn off their phone, smells bad, is partying loudly with a six pack of beer (which I myself have done at some of these movies, in an attempt to improve their observed quality), or is making out with another teenager in ways that are not only illegal to be watching, but so badly done as to be more embarrassing than erotic.
I generally enjoy documentaries and WELL MADE films. They are almost NEVER available at the theater, and are also extraordinarily rare at Blockbuster, Hollywood, or any of the other cookie cutter corporate rental chains that do not offer any services for individuals like me whatsoever.
If movie makers want to make money again, they are going to have to start making decent movies. It's unbelievable to me that crappy sequels like X-men 3 make as much money as they do, but when the alternative is crappy sequels to "Bridget Jones' Diary", I can't actually say I'm even mildly surprised.
This entire rant can also be copied nearly verbatim for the RIAA and why I don't purchase many albums from corporate labels anymore, either. Just substitute the words movie and album, and swap theater with concert venue, most of which are also shitty corporate owned parks that also over charge for shitty unhealthy beverages.
If you want to see a GREAT movie you've never even heard of, check out http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00000IQC5
This is a shameless plug, but if you want a great album check out http://cdbaby.com/cd/leperkhanz/.
Otherwise, trolling http://www.mininova.org/ and http://btjunkie.org/ are going to yield better music and movie offerings than any local corporate theater or rental house.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
We've watched Big Brother on CBS, Identity on NBC -- both with no commercials. We've also watched / caught up on Lost & Grey's Anatomy on ABC -- with commercials. Sounds like these stations are doing an end around on iTunes.
I come here for the love
Seriously, what kind of floor is 10 MB? That's like "stealing" a grape in a supermarket.
The network goes crazy, you deprioritize bulk traffic. Spammers suffer, but I don't give a flying about their "needs" in an emergency.
Flashy flyers that don't deliver are a civil offence under consumer protection laws in many countries (such as the UK) and can be a criminal offence under some circumstances. I see no reason to pity the bloodsuckling leeches.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
when they say that these households have at least one digital video file 10MB or larger, they aren't telling you what that is.
that could be a viral video they got off youtube or the like
it could be a porn clip off a website.
they aren't telling you the truth.
from a p2p service for free, then it's most likely a viral video or a porn clip.
I've never seen a 10MB movie or tv episode.
60% was porn clips. but they lying liars say "adult-film content" implying they pirated porn movies. this is the lie.
that means 15% was viral videos and the like.
they didn't tell you how much was music videos.
so what they're saying is, 4.8% of households used p2p services to download porn video clips.
of those, how many were from websites that offer video clip downloads? and how many were actual (uhh when do you get a chance to say this) professionally produced adult films?
only 300 thousand households had downloaded mainstream movie content.
that's what the liars are concerned with.
look how many companies offer digital downloads of mainstream movie content? 4 at best? this is the damn lie.
that's fucking why.
offer up the non-crippled content at reasonable prices. iTunes is doing it.
one last question, how does NPD know what these 6 million households have on their computers?
are they just going on what's shared on p2p?
bottom line is, the MPAA paid for a study to show that porn is popular.
They're using their grammar skills there.
It's already been posted on this thread. It's the most annoying song ever invented, even pushing out the stuff Britney fucking Spears created. I can deal with the average Slashdot meme but that song needs to be beaten into the ground and killed. Avenue Q is fairly funny in general but that song needs to be thrown into the fucking Memory Hole. Forgotten, and never remembered again.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
That's already been posted twice on this very thread. If you weren't an AC you'd go on my Foe List. Because that video is moronic. Why do you think the net was born? MILITARY AND ACADEMIC COMMUNICATION, NOT PORN, YOU FUCKING IDIOT!
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
I fecking loathe those anti piracy things. mute, read a magazine and wait till the pointless animated menus stop blinking at me.
But why is this acceptable on DVD? Why not put this on CDs? everytime you put a cd single in, listen to a 90 second anti piracy advert?
you think thats mad, but a lot of the music single dvds i own have a no-skippable ident at the front...
I thought the fool was the guy who actually pays real money for pr0n?
So it's a win win for everyone.
Not necessarily. I disable uploads when I d/l stuff that's not safe to share. I'm a shameless leech. There is no honor amongst thieves :)
Method of processing duck feet
I was wondering if any legal history scholars happen to be slashdot regulars who could explain the parallels (or lack thereof) between Alcohol Prohibition and the current efforts to restrict digital content. It seems that there should be some relationship there, though I have nowhere near the education to analyze it myself. Thanks.
WARNING: Smoking this sig may cause lowered IQ, insanity or short term memory loss. It is also really bad for your monit
Exactly. I run linux and play my movies over ethernet on a modded xbox using xbox media center. No where in that chain will the DRM checks play fair.
I suspect, you'd still pay a lot of legal costs trying to prove that particular subtle technical point.
I can't think you do it for long on any particular tracker since they would ban your ip.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Huge numbers of people download TV shows because they can't see them any other way. Maybe the cable company locally doesn't carry them. Maybe there is no cable company at all. Maybe the local broadcaster buys the rights and then sits on the show for a year or several (like TVNZ did with ST:TNG), happy that the competition didn't get it first. Bugger the viewers. Maybe the local broadcaster can't be arsed showing ALL the episodes (say 8 instead of 24) or all of any given episode (46 mins instead of 50 - butchering the storyline). Maybe the downloaded ones are in stereo sound while the local broadcast is in mono. Maybe you live in a rural area and the free-to-air broadcast has nasty bursts of static making it almost unlistenable....while your broadband connection is ready and waiting. Maybe you hate wasting time on ads and those downloaded shows are 10-15 minutes shorter without them. Maybe all of the above. Welcome to my world. Watching TV shows downloaded removes ALL of the above hassles....and I have suffered every single one of them at one time or another and most of them at any given time.
Only boring people are ever bored.
the reason porn is so popular is because of the computer, and because the computer alot us are still virgins thus we turn to porn.. it's one big life cycle.. hard to break.. but it "feels.. so..damn good!!"
It has less to do with strangleholds on viewpoints and more with this simple fact.
The RIAA/MPAA/etc. have always, ALWAYS wanted to be paid every time their movie, song, book, video, tv show, or what have you has been performed. Whether it's performed by Britney Spears, James Brown or a bunch of girl scouts... if you mimic a skit you saw on tv, if you watch a clip on youtube, if you play an episode in itunes or sing a song by the campfire, they want to be paid for that performance of their song, of that movie, of that video.
That is what the broadcast flag is all about, that is why they vigorously opposed VCRs and cassettes in the past, why they were so concerned about the distribution of music sheets 100 years ago, and are now trying to push us all away from a model where you, the consumer "own" content in some physical format where you can play it 1000# a day every single day and they won't see one more cent as a result of your action. They want to push us into a world where you own no content- they do. And any & every time you want to see it, they get paid for it. You never own it, they do.
What the Digital Media Marketplace needs is the proper method of distribution to enable residual royalties for content creators and to protect copyrights. I have found a company, The 9thx.com that has emerged with these solutions. The The 9thXchange marketplace is the newest way to bring together buyers and sellers of digital content. The service dramatically reduces content piracy by offering the seller lifetime royalties -- even on exchanges between consumers. Moreover, the service accommodates all technology platforms, file types and creators. I read about The 9thxchange in Crains Detroit recently.
...5 percent was mainstream movie content.
:(
Awww.. No wonder the movie companies are so upset... People not only won't buy their prodcuts, no one wants to steal them either.
I always wonder how they gather they statistics, and to which extend we can trust the claims made.
Personnaly, I gather statistics on emule network, and porn films are not present on top50 most downloaded files.
TV shows sometimes appear, last month for example, in france, prison break was incredibly present in the top 50 with more than 15 episodes, but the most downloaded files, not surprisingly, seems to be the most marketized films...
If you want to check yourself : http://www.emule-top50.com/
Russ Crupnick, vice president and senior industry analyst for The NPD Group (said), "Even though right now the majority of downloaded video content is adult-film content, the amount of intellectual property stolen from mainstream movie studios, networks, and record labels will continue to rise, unless strong and sustained action is taken to prevent piracy."
The implication of Mr. Crupnick's statement is that downloading adult-film content doesn't matter, even if that too is stealing intellectual property. Surely it's unfair to have one rule for movies and another for adult movies? So surely this report should lead the MPAA to come out swinging for Ben Dover and his friends?
maybe he's not talking about bittorrent?
I read this on a post a while ago (could find the source, but don't feel like it right now) that Ep 4 of Season 3 "Exodus", quite possibly the best ep of the series, was the lowest rated ep of the series at that point.
As good as the show is, it's not doing good ratings wise (or awards wise, but that's another topic), and a change to Sunday night is very welcome. Friday night has not been a good night for TV for some time now.
at least the one I went to as a kid did. I haven't been to one in about 10-15 years, though...
IIRC, this is why there are no more radio stations.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I would never have heard of BSG if it hadn't been for being able to get episodes via the net.
Now, If every episode had a embedded, machine readable, verifiable, donation instructions then I would have donated up to 5 USD pr. episode.
The only thing "they" need to do is to realize that piracy can't be stopped, but that it can be used as a very cheap and fast distribution channel.
-- To dream a dream is grand, but to live it is divine. -- Leto ][