TiVoToGo for Mac Announced

An anonymous reader writes "After much anticipation, some backpedaling, a bite of hope, and a delayed release date, TiVoToGo Mac Edition is here. While there have been some unofficial hacks, those solutions have not been ideal for everyone. With support for transferring shows and burning to DVD/iPod, TiVoToGo is bundled as a part of Roxio's Toast Titanium software that will be announced tomorrow at Macworld."

Comments

Too bad, almost sounded useful

[Anonymous Coward]

Bundled as part of Toast? Well, so much for that idea then. A CD burning application that costs $100 and breaks with every security and system update that apple puts out? No thank you, I'll stick with the "unofficial hacks" (which work just fine).

Re:Too bad, almost sounded useful

[slughead]

Bundled as part of Toast? Well, so much for that idea then. A CD burning application that costs $100 and breaks with every security and system update that apple puts out? No thank you, I'll stick with the "unofficial hacks" (which work just fine).

I don't understand, I haven't updated toast 7.0 since it came out and haven't upgraded to 7.1--or whatever it's at now (I'm doing 10.4.8 on a Mac Pro now).

Toast has always been the 'end-all' of burning software since I started using it nearly a decade ago.

These days it can take in raw video, including mpeg2, and burn a DVD with no other software. It'll auto-compress video (and video_ts) to fit DVDs.

Combined with ElGato's software, burning TV shows from Miglia or EyeTV devices can be done without recompression. I used to do this three or 4 times a week, putting 2 hours on each disc.

It even started doing dual layer way before Apple even offered the option.

I've never had compatibility issues, even though I rarely upgrade. In fact, I've never had a single issue with Toast, and I use it for all sorts of crazy stuff.

Re:Too bad, almost sounded useful

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's wonderful...

too damn bad that TiVo nixed TiVoToGo for the Series 3 HD TiVo.

Re:Too bad, almost sounded useful

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I can't recall ever having any kind of problem with Toast, and I've been using it for years and years, so I question how much experience you've had with it based on your comment.

I'm still on 7.0 (even though it keeps bugging me to upgrade to 7.1) and I've had 0 problems as well. Its been nothing but a stable, solid performer, that always seems ahead of the curve.

Never has one apple update interefed with my usage of toast... or if it has, it was so minor, or fixed so quickly that I can't recall the problem.

Re:Too bad, almost sounded useful

[lakeland]

I used to use toast too, but have stopped since the number of things it can do best has shrunk to virtually zero.

As a serious backup program it doesn't work. It doesn't handle backing up open files and I don't even think it has an option to span disks.
Backing up the odd file from your home directory is far easier in the Finder than launching a seperate program.
Music and Photo backups are meaningless now with the builtin apps doing them better.
That leaves movie backup. It does a passable job there, but so do dozens of other apps. Last time I used something called ffmpegX, not as pretty as Toast but did a better job. Besides, how often do you need to backup movies for a DVD player? I can burn DIVX or MOV straight to disk for playing in my 'DVD' player and if I was doing anything serious I would be using iMovie rather than a direct burn.

A few years ago Toast was essential. Now I can go months without using it and wouldn't bother installing it on a new machine despite a site licence.

Re:Too bad, almost sounded useful

[jimmyharris]

It doesn't handle backing up open files and I don't even think it has an option to span disks.

Toast may be crappy in other ways, but it certainly does have the option to span disks. That's the main reason why I use it.

Of course it it...

[moracity]

I just spent all weekend getting two-way video working between my new iMac and Tivo.

... a bite of hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't know biting could induce hope ...

Re:... a bite of hope...

[WhyDoYouWantToKnow]

You're just not masochistic enough.

cool beans

[jrwr00]

This is cool, The Tivo is a great thing, now i can take my mac book, and watch my shows....

Re:cool beans

[jrwr00]

Cant wait till tivo does this for linux, that way i can really take my mac book, with Debain linux and have (about 5 hours) of fun!

back PEDALING, not peddling

[Anonymous Coward]

back PEDALING, not peddling.

Re:back PEDALING, not peddling

[slughead]

back PEDALING, not peddling.

Nonsense. They meant that they went back in time to sell Tivos to people in the past.

"Back Peddling"

Unfortunately... There's DRM

[8127972]

According to Engadget.com:

"Take heed, the software does indeed embed a non-visible watermark of your Media Access key into converted video -- same as the PC kiddo."

Click below for the full details:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/roxio-deliverst ivotogo-for-mac-yes-roxio/

Re:Unfortunately... There's DRM

[christurkel]

Unless I am mistaken, Toast in version 7 put in some DRM stuff.

Re:Unfortunately... There's DRM

[Ed Avis]

I don't think that is particularly evil. Unless it's removing some of your digital rights, I don't think you can justify calling it DRM. There is enough real DRM out there without muddying the water. As far as I can tell, you can still exercise your rights to fair dealing, time-shifting and so on even if there is an invisible watermark in the video.

Re:Unfortunately... There's DRM

[alanQuatermain]

I'd have to say that I agree, this doesn't sound 'bad' to me, although I'll admit I haven't read the full details. But a watermark is the perfect 'DRM', I'd say. No actual restrictions on what you can do, but if the authorities find pirate DVDs sold from a market stall at $2 apiece, or liberally distributed online, they are able to track down the originator through the watermark. Meanwhile, other people who aren't making copies to sell for profit or otherwise distribute (i.e. are only interested in exercising their fair-use rights) aren't impeded in any way, but can still make as many copies as they want, in whichever media they so choose.

To attempt an analogy, I'd have no problems with my copied media including a watermark identifying me as the source, in exactly the same way that I have no problem with having license plates traceable to me on my car. I'm not intending to do anything illegal with either, so I'm happy to attach my identity to it.

-Q

Re:Unfortunately... There's DRM

[pyite]

I agree. However, watermarks can be pretty useless. Most are vulnerable to collusion. Assume for the moment that iTunes downloads didn't have copy protection DRM, just watermarks. Now how about five of us get together and download the same file on iTunes. Then, we get together and "average our files." Often times this will destroy the watermark but leave the original media intact. There is definitely research to create collusion resistant fingerprinting (see Anti-Collusion Fingerprinting for Multimedia by W. Trappe, M. Wu, Z. Wang, and K. J. R. Liu, for instance). In the end though, just like regular DRM, it's a losing battle and there are always ways around it.

Re:Unfortunately... There's DRM

[fangorious]

But what about when some enterprising group figures out the scheme to generate the keys that are used for watermarks, and you get sued for distributing content you never even recorded or time-shifted? I think the only way would be for the DVR unit itself to track every operation relating to the time-shifting software (channel changes, when a timeslot changes what content is now playing, recording, deleting, etc). That data would have to be signed (by your DVR's TPM private key?) and encrypted (by the service provider's public key? then you can't read it to verify it), and either stored in a nonvolatile memory unit or sent to the service provider for archival. I don't really want my DVR keeping track of me like that, much less the company offering the content subscription.

Re:Unfortunately... There's DRM

[dangitman]

Now how about five of us get together and download the same file on iTunes. Then, we get together and "average our files."

Sounds great for the vendor. They get to sell five copies of the song, instead of just one.

Placeshifting

[petabyte]

Hmm, so it sounds cool for Mac users to be able to place/timeshift their Tivo. I've been trying to get VLC to stream out video from my Hauppage card so I can send TV to my girlfriend's machine across the apartment over 802.11g. While a slingbox could probably do what I want, it doesn't have linux support.

Does anyone know of hardware that will allow the cable tv to be streamed to a laptop or TV where I can't run coax? She just wants to be able to watch TV in bed.

Re:Placeshifting

[jrwr00]

I well, if it has s-video out, or something of that short, there are boxes out there that can do this, they require a s-video connection for each "Channel" tho,

Re:Placeshifting

[Nutmegan]

You can do that with Beyond TV Link. There are other ways, but Link is pretty easy. http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtvlink/

Re:Placeshifting

[LMacG]

Maybe you could stop geeking out and find other ways to distract her in bed? (Insert appropriate smiley thing here).

Re:Placeshifting

[ben there...]

SageTV has linux clients and servers. It also has Placeshifter for streaming across the web.

Re:Placeshifting

[Anonymous Coward]

Quicktime braodcaster works just fine - e.g. with AlchemyTVR

Re:Placeshifting

[businessnerd]

MythTV can do it, but it's probably more of a commitment than other solutions. If you set up a MythTV backend system to record tv, you can set up MythTV frontend clients on other machines (like your gf's laptop). Don't worry, the clients do not have to be dedicated. The client will connect to the backend machine and either stream live tv straight from one of the capture cards, or stream a previously recorded show. I have MythTV running in my living room right now, but it is both a frontend and backend all in one. I have yet to connect a separate client to it, but I do have plans to do so in the future.

Re:Placeshifting

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a girlfriend? I call that wishful thinking.

I saw this coming.

[kyouteki]

This timing, of course, is not coincidental. The open-source hack tivodecode has made .tivo file decoding possible on non-Windows platforms. Tons of people are using tools like the TivoDecode Manager to replace the functionality not available from TiVo officially...until now.

Re:I saw this coming.

[roye]

The program works great, but they prominently display a notice saying that it is an unofficial workaround until an official version is released. From the site:

DO NOT SHARE COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL. This is intended for your own private use to play TiVo files on your Mac until such time that there is an official way of doing so.

However, the forums state that development will continue for now because of the price!

Re:I saw this coming.

[kyouteki]

That's what strikes me. Competent programs doing the same thing the Windows version does, for the same price...and then they release it bundled only with an expensive, broken piece of software. tivodecode development won't stop because of this, because it's ridiculous.

Re:I saw this coming.

[roye]

Thanks for the work!

Dissappointing

[Hawthorne01]

Clearly, this is an attempt by Roxio to stay relevant on the Mac. But there's no word yet of iTunes integration for full-size videos. Therefore, I have doubts (which hopefully will be settled tomorrow) about how this will work with 'iTV".

Re:Dissappointing

[MBCook]

OK, I've gotta ask, why would I care if it worked with iTV? My TiVo is already attached to my TV. What point would there be in moving the file from the TiVo to the Mac to the iTV?

DRM

[sckeener]

Talk about timing....I was about to start trying my Mac because my pc is cutting it. I worked off and on all weekend to get my .tivo files to work through my mediaplayer.

I do not care how, but I need to get rid of that DRM. I've tried graphedit and xumxer (msp?), but I'm still not getting sound when I play them through my mediaplayer. Admittedly supposedly graphedit is supposed to prompt for the media access key and I am not getting that prompt. The graphedit created video file is playing fine on my pc.

help.

Re:DRM

[mark0]

Install the TiVo Desktop and DirectShow Dump.

Re:DRM

[sckeener]

that works...but that project appears to be abandoned.

Re:DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

that works...but that project appears to be abandoned.

So? Some projects reach a logical conclusion. There isn't much that it needs to do and it does it.

Likely to work with a Series 1?

[mccalli]

The UK only ever got Series 1 hardware - is this likely to work with a series 1 device?

Incidentally, for some more of those infamous hacks might I recommend TivoTool for the Mac and my own cross-platform TivoPodcast for handling podcasts of digital radio.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Likely to work with a Series 1?

[Anonymous Coward]

Series 1 TiVos didn't encrypt stored video. But they also didn't support transferring video either (no USB or Ethernet ports). What part of the new software's functionality are you asking about?

Not available without Toast?

[masonbrown]

It looks like there's no transfer-to-Mac capabilities without purchasing Toast:

"Roxio is the exclusive official provider of TiVoToGo(TM) for the Mac--and Toast 8 Titanium is the way to get it and enjoy your favorite shows on the Mac, on DVD, and on-the-go."

http://www.tivo.com/mactivotogo/

Re:Not available without Toast?

[TobyRush]

Why, I ought to just yank my TiVo out and toss it in the... *sob* Oh, who am I kidding? They have me right where they want me!

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. Mac users wait, and then wait, and then wait some more, and then finally TiVo announces it... for $100? The thing which has been a free download for Windows users for... ever? I'm miffed, but also genuinely curious why they would so obviously spit in the face of their customers like this. Is the Mac port somehow dependent on Toast's technology? Do they figure that Mac users must all be rich and spendy, and thus won't care about forking over $100? Are they just desperate for cash?

We're supposed to hear more about the "iTV" and Leopard tomorrow. Maybe there will be a TiVo-related announcement made there that will make me feel a little less affronted, but after waiting this long for TiVo to show even a little Mac love, I'm not holding my breath...

Re:Not available without Toast?

[Generic Guy]

It looks like there's no transfer-to-Mac capabilities without purchasing Toast

Except of course connecting your web browser via https to your tivo's IP address, typing in your MAK, and downloading the .tivo files you want. Like has always been the case. You don't think all PC owning Tivo users have actually been buying that crappy MyDVD thing all this time?!

This new version of Toast is merely the Mac equivalent of tivo-enabled Sonic MyDVD for PeeCees. Actually, Toast is way better than MyDVD so this can only be an improvement.

Re:Not available without Toast?

[dangitman]

Just wait until they start bundling Toast 8 with hardware. You'll be able to get an external DVD recorder with Lightscribe and a copy of Toast 8 for around $100. Sell the drive if you don't need it.

Anyway, who buys a new copy of Toast? Doesn't every Mac user already have a copy, and can qualify for upgrade pricing?

Not Exactly

[shirizaki]

More like meta data. DRM would hinder actual play of video files on players, btu it will encode it for iPod and PSP use, so calling it DRM isn't correct.


If anything, this is the proper way I'd like to see content distributed with protection.

"We'll give you free reign, but we're marking it."

Re:Not Exactly

[timeOday]

Nice spin. Yes it is DRM. It could be worse, but since it intentionally prevents some uses of the video, it is certainly DRM.

Re:Not Exactly

[Aadain2001]

I haven't RTFA, so correct me if my assumptions are wrong, but wouldn't the restrictions be on making perfect digital copies that you could distribute freely over the internet?

While DRM is like a four letter word on here, there are good kinds of DRM and bad kinds of DRM. Good DRM will be simple to use and won't get the in way of basic use: watching on your computer, burning to DVD, watching on iPod/PSP, etc. At the same time, good DRM would prevent people from making unlimited copies that could be spread on the internet. Basically, good DRM assumes that 99% of its users are good people and gets out of their way, while making life difficult for the 1% who want to distribute the content and/or make profit from it.

On the other side of the coin, bad DRM assumes everyone is a potential thief and makes using the content difficult for everyone (MS comes to mind here). Limiting playback to expensive equipment and/or software that does not let you make any copies, even for backup purposes, giving full control to the media produces instead of the users, etc.

Bad DRM should be avoided like the plague, but don't avoid all DRM. Labeling good DRM just as evil as the bad DRM is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Re:Not Exactly

[Niten]

No, it's not DRM. It's a watermark. It does not and cannot prevent you from doing anything at all with the video; all it does is provide the content owners with a means of identifying copyright violators, should the video show up in a torrent somewhere.

I agree with shirizaki - this is the proper way for media to be distributed online. This watermark will never be an issue for you until after you've already, publicly violated someone else's copyright.

Re:Not Exactly

[novus ordo]

The restrictions would be that everything you ever convert will be directly traceable to you. Would this be bad? Depends on what you're converting and how bad someone wants to find you. Of course real pirates would have a bogus key anyway. Maybe even yours.

Re:Not Exactly

[powerlord]

No, it's not DRM. It's a watermark. ... I agree with shirizaki - this is the proper way for media to be distributed online. This watermark will never be an issue for you until after you've already, publicly violated someone else's copyright.

I agree also, and wish I had mod points to add an '+1 insightful'.

We've heard lots of complaints on SlashDot about DRM, and I'll agree that DRM is bad.

This ISN'T DRM though. You could transfer the file or convert it for the iPod (I'm assuming the Mac version will support this feature, as the Windows version does), and TiVo2Go will tag the file with your Media Access Key (unique to each TiVo account). Use the file as much as you want in any way you want. They aren't preventing you from doing anything with it. Share the file on-line? Guess what? You're violating Copyright. They can use the MAK to trace it back to you (assuming some tool doesn't come out to strip the MAK out of the file), but there is nothing that smacks of DRM in this.

You may not agree with Copyright, but thats a different argument.

Re:Not Exactly

[timeOday]

If that's true then I stand corrected. They're going to release Hollywood movies with no protection but a watermark? I'll believe it when I see it. If I could download movies for a few bucks and play them in mplayer, I would do it.

Re:Not Exactly

[xjerky]

"assuming some tool doesn't come out to strip the MAK out of the file"

C'mon, you KNOW somebody's going to do that, if they hadn't already.

Funny, at first I read your comment as calling the first person to do it a 'tool'.....

Re:Not Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

"... Good DRM will be simple to use and won't get the in way of basic use..."
"... bad DRM assumes everyone is a potential thief and makes using the content difficult for everyone..."

Do tell, where can one find this mythical "good" DRM?

Re:Not Exactly

[powerlord]

and if someone does come out with a tool like that, then they do. Its still not DRM, its just Copyright with all that implies.

Book sellers selling Stripped paper-backs is illegal also, and yet some still do it.

Re:Not Exactly

[xjerky]

My point being, a tool to strip watermarks will likely cause content owners to go back to DRM.

Re:Not Exactly

[Aadain2001]

Apple's iTunes DRM. I can burn as many copies of songs to CDs as I like with nothing getting in the way. I can use my iPod on 5 different computers with no issues. I can plug my iPod into a home or car stereo system and play the music with no issues.

About the only annoying features of their DRM is trying to play the songs under Linux. But even then, someone has already found a work around that isn't that difficult. Overall, I hold Apple's DRM up as a good example of DRM. People can use their songs easily while providing protection from simple sharing for the content producers.

So what.

[Laith]

At home I'm mostly a Mac guy. By bundling the new software only with a pay product when the Windows version is free is just insulting and bad business.

I just want to be able to copy some of our programs to a computer to watch. So I can watch my Sci-Fi when my wife or daughter are watching one of their programs, or so my daughter can watch one of her shows when the TV is otherwise busy.

We have no dvd burner in the computer and no desire to save these shows after viewing. Just want to have another screen to view them on.

Re:So what.

[King_TJ]

Agreed... but then there's another way of looking at it. If you're a Tivo user, you're probably already shelling out $15 or so a month just to keep your unit usable.

I used to have a Tivo, back when units could still be purchased with a "lifetime subscription". But that unit broke down, and I decided to build a MythTV box instead. Now I pay nothing in monthly subscription fees, and have a much more flexible, customizable system too. (Can't run old arcade games via MAME emulation on a Tivo, nor can you pull down RSS newsfeeds, or use video teleconferencing features with an attached webcam, or.....)

So in my estimation, those buying a new Tivo today are just doing so for the convenience (plug it in and go, vs. rolling one's own PC with MythTV software). Its current success proves the business model works, even though people are paying more for less functionality than they'd get by going the MythTV route. So why wouldn't they pay another one-time $99 or so for a copy of Roxio with TivoToGo in it?

Re:So what.

[Generic Guy]

y bundling the new software only with a pay product when the Windows version is free is just insulting...

I'm sure all this new Toast does is handle the https download requests from the Tivo unit internally. You have always been able to do the same manually by pointing a web browser (via https) at your Tivo's IP address, typing in your MAK code, and then downloading the .tivo videofiles. Actually playing them back on anything has been problematic, even on the PeeCee platform.

The "official" way to download and burn .tivo files on the PC has always "officially" been to use the expensive and crappy Sonic MyDVD. I would hope that Toast on a Mac would be a huge improvement, even at the same price.

As has been pointed out, the open source tivodecode will convert the video file to something more useful.

Re:So what.

[Anonymous Coward]

. . . MAME emulation . . .

You emulate an emulator? How nonsensical.

Re:So what.

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Tivo has really pissed me off lately. They over price the new S3, its rife with problems. Does not yet support MRV, or Tivo2Go. Their customer service is horrible. Wait on hold for hours to get tossed around like a rag doll before you get anyone on the phone to help you.

I was a very dedicated Tivo customer until my S3. They have lost me as a customer.

Regarding Toast... There is always Usenet. I'm sure toast will show up there soon and it will be free for the taking.
  And frankly... I will not waste a second thinking or dwelling on guilt over piracy. Tivo and Roxio simply SUCK as companies.

And...

[sootman]

...still no love for DirecTiVos. And, I guess, never. From http://www.tivo.com/4.9.4.1-1.asp
"The TiVoToGo feature is not currently available on Series3. This feature will not be available [emphasis mine] on the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo or the original TiVo boxes (TiVo Series1)."

All I want to do is download shows. I've got two hackable TiVos (and even a supported USB/network adapter) but I've never been able to get it to work, and with two jobs, a newborn, and no "spare" PCs anymore, it's difficult for me to try--my last attempt was over a year ago. Are there any reputable services/people that can hack my TiVo for me? I'm not trying to get around TiVo's fees, I just want to have it make shows available for download, and maybe a web-based frontend for recording/deleting shows and the ability to make its daily call over the network would be nice, too. Any suggestions?

Re:And...

[wandazulu]

I have a similar DirectTV-based Tivo and from what I gathered from googling around, the usb ports are disconnected inside the box itself.

The Tivo software is also at least a full point release behind the Series2, which my folks have and what my DirectTV Tivo claims to be. That's the killer, I believe...my folks Tivo have all the neat features like TivoToGo, etc., which I believe requires version 7 or somesuch, while the DirectTV ones are, from what I understand, permanently at 6-something.

Basically, DirectTV made a deal with Tivo but then Rupert Murdoch bought them and got them to switch to a different, in-house developed DVR which doesn't use Tivo's software. I doubt you can even get the Tivo versions anymore.

The only benefit we've got with the DirectTV version is being able to record two shows at once, or record and watch, but I understand the Tivo-branded series 3 solves that problem too. It's too bad, I would love to be able to get the updates via a usb-to-ethernet instead of having a phone cord that stretches across the living room, but with DirectTV it just ain't gonna happen. *Sigh*

Re:And...

[Anonymous Coward]

> It's too bad, I would love to be able to get the updates via a usb-to-ethernet instead of having a phone cord that stretches across the living room, but with DirectTV it just ain't gonna happen. *Sigh*

You don't need the phone connection for updates. All it is used for is pay-per-view accounting. Everything else comes down off the satellites. If you don't use pay-per-view, you don't need the phone connection for your DirecTivo.

Re:And...

[GeorgeS069]

If you have certain model DirecTV TiVo unints they can be easily(for me at least)hacked.
Start looking here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay. php?f=8
Look for posts regarding the Zipper.
This hack will enable the USB ports and add a bunch of features such as 30second skip,TiVoToGo,a web server,shell,telnet and so on
You will need to purchase 1 or 2 ISO files but,the total for them was like $25

The R-10 model CAN NOT BE HACKED without a hardware modification....period! don't believe the hype...it's junk...get a cheapo
used unit with no drive from http://www.weaknees.com/ and use your current drive in the R-10 or upgarde.
I have 2 units with the Zipper on it and 350gig drives in each and it is heaven!
Good Luck

$100 vs free

[diamondsw]

And note that while Windows users get it for free, Mac users only get it as part of a $100 application; one that you hardly need with all of the built-in CD and DVD burning services.

Re:$100 vs free

[Anonymous Coward]

Not exactly. Yes, the software is free on the PC, but won't actually play video without you having already acquired an MPEG-2 codec for the machine, can't burn to DVD without you acquiring DVD burning software from a third party, and won't convert to some of the formats this supports without an additional fee (~$30) to cover the costs of the codec licensing for those formats.

Since the Mac OS X software as packaged has a vastly different things feature set than the Windows version, as packaged, it's not an apples-to-apples pricing comparison,

Re:$100 vs free

[diamondsw]

What you omit is that MPEG-2 codecs on the PC can be had for free, and Apple already includes DVD burning at the OS level. If you need an MPEG-2 codec on the Mac (since you can't get at the one built into DVD Player), Apple supplies one for $30.

There. Release the software for free on the Mac and it really would be comparable.

Re:$100 vs free

[phorest]

Cutting edge of computing design & Function: ~$2400.00

Cost of anuual upgrades: $129.00

Cost of TiVo for Mac: $100.00

Cost of wanting proprietary hardware and operating system: $Expensive$

Re:$100 vs free

[Anonymous Coward]

They can't legally be had "for free" on the PC because of patent licensing issues -- someone is supposed to pay for the codec IP. This also includes the DVD burning component, which the PC version does not do.

Many (most) PCs with DVD player software bundle the codecs, but that's not really free; and the MPEG-2 codecs Apple provides have been shown not to be compatible with .tivo files tat have simply been decrypted by tivodecode.

Re:$100 vs free

[wardk]

I paid $99 for this service before it was free, but never got to truly use it because I have a mac.

now I would have to pay again? ...when pigs fly

Re:$100 vs free

[lubricated]

You do need it if you want to copy audio cd's.

Re:$100 vs free

[MojoStan]

Yes, the software is free on the PC, but won't actually play video without you having already acquired an MPEG-2 codec for the machine,

If the PC was bought with a DVD drive preinstalled, or the PC's DVD drive was bought at retail, then the MPEG-2 codec was bundled for free. The only people I can think of who need to "aquire" a codec are people that build their own PCs with OEM DVD drives.

can't burn to DVD without you acquiring DVD burning software from a third party,

The same thing I wrote above apples to DVD burners. PCs with DVD burners and retail burners are bundled with burning software for free.

and won't convert to some of the formats this supports without an additional fee (~$30) to cover the costs of the codec licensing for those formats.

Only if you don't know where to download the free alternatives. Even if you don't, isn't this better than paying $100?

Since the Mac OS X software as packaged has a vastly different things feature set than the Windows version, as packaged, it's not an apples-to-apples pricing comparison

Of course it's not, but Windows users don't need that extra stuff that you say they need, and neither do Mac users. Unless TiVo un-bundles TiVoToGo for Mac in the future, they can go frick themselves.

Re:$100 vs free

[dangitman]

PCs with DVD burners and retail burners are bundled with burning software for free.

No, it's not free. You pay less for a burner that doesn't come with software. Same with the Mac. But when you buy a burner with software included for the Mac, you get a copy of Toast - which is far better than the Windows software included with burners. And how many of those burners come with Linux burning software? After all, you said "PC," not "Windows Box."

Roxio Discount

[frenchs]

I'm pretty sure I'm in line with everyone else in that I don't really want to buy a $100 dollar piece of burning software just so I can download and view my tv shows on my mac.

But for those that are into that. If you go to Roxio's site to an invalid URL (Like this one), you can get a 10% off coupon for their online store.

It's still TiVo - I won't go there

[TheWoozle]

Unless TiVo change their policies about gathering information on what I watch, forcing downloads of advertising and other content that I don't want, etc., I don't want a TiVo.

I think I'll wait and see what Jobs & Co. have cooked up in the new "iTV" device. Anybody heard anything from the Macworld keynote yet?

Re:It's still TiVo - I won't go there

[Anonymous Coward]

Keynote isn't until tomorrow.

Re:It's still TiVo - I won't go there

[Have Blue]

The keynote is tomorrow at 9AM PST.

Re:It's still TiVo - I won't go there

[MachineShedFred]

Wait... that matters?

Re:It's still TiVo - I won't go there

[amigabill]

I got my Tivo for use until I get MythTV working. Due to the unacceptable unstability if Kubuntu, my loss of interest in Gentoo (due to failed installs and one update that made the thing unbootable after it did work), and failed attempts to get a couple other distros working properly, I'm starting to suspect bad hardware. One of my friends had decided that the moment I get this thing working will mark the end of the universe. So until then I'd like to enjoy the few shows I like even though I'm likely not home or remembering to stare at the TV at the time. I'll order a new motherboard & CPU next paycheck to try again.

But for the moment I'm safe from Tivo conspiracies. The Linksys USB200M network adaptor broke. It didn't quit working, it broke. The stupid and very delicate plastic tab that retains the ethernet cable connector against the wire contacts on the adaptor is very fiddly to get everything connected, and it breaks right off quite easily too. Due to that, I'm lacking network connectivity and it can't phone home to tell mommy what I've been doing until I get a new one. (Already ordered, just waiting for shipment) Of course that also means it has no guide data and is not recording anything, but luckily we're still in mid-season break for anything I care about.

Re:It's still TiVo - I won't go there

[rthille]

So, is that a yes or a no? :-)

Re:It's still TiVo - I won't go there

[Anonymous Coward]

With their pathetic 2% market share, I don't think anything Apple does actually matters.

Windows = free, mac = $80

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the fact that the rumors point to apple releasing their own tivo like product this just doesn't make sense ....

In other news...another badly ported, late app...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this news? It's been on Windows for nearly forever. Yet another app ported late and badly to the Mac.

Tell me again why the Mac is a better platform is the apps lag by years?

How about DirecTV TiVo ??

[jdray]

We've got a DirecTV TiVo unit (oldie but goodie). I've never investigated interfacing it with my computer, but we're starting to realize that 35 hours of storage just isn't enough for long-term storage and still catch everything we want to watch, so it's time to figure something out. We hate the remote on the new DirecTV PVR, so don't want to switch. Any idea if there's a way to pull things off of it to my iMac without a whole lot of extra equipment like FireWire TV tuners and the like?

Re:How about DirecTV TiVo ??

[lonechicken]

We're still hanging onto our HD DirecTivo until all the kinks get worked out with the Mpeg-4 HD DVR blah blah blah unit that D* has or will release. (I haven't kept up with that news). As far as remotes go, I tell friends this all the time. The one tech device more important than anything else in your life except for a computer or cell phone is a great universal remote. One that can learn, has a good combination of LCD and hard buttons, well laid out, and does macros. We have two from Home Theater Master (now under a different brand name) for our two main TVs. Don't care and haven't cared in the last 5 years how good or bad is a remote control that comes with any device. Just enter the code or teach the main remote the necessary functions, and throw that other remote into a drawer.

Re:How about DirecTV TiVo ??

[dafz1]

DirecTv's version of the TiVO OS(version depends on hardware)doesn't include an FTP server, like the "real" TiVO OS does(vs. 7). Secondly, DirecTv also disables the network port in software. So, there's no easy way to get content off.

That's for official support. There are hacks available that allow you to enable the network port(if you have one, otherwise you need to buy a USB ethernet adapter), start a telnet/ftp server, so you can transfer things off via command line. AFAIK, it won't support Tivo2Go. Also, you'll need a tool to crack the encryption(which are available) to be able to view the media file.

All that said, I have used a Firewire capture device, and iMovie, to transfer content off of my DirecTv TiVO. There are a number of decent devices available for under $200(which is probably what you'll spend for the hacks...not including your time spent). I used a Canopus ADVC55, or you can use the Elgato Eye250. I got pretty good results, though it's not "original" content quality.

Re:How about DirecTV TiVo ??

[jdray]

Eh. That's what I was afraid of. I'll just rely on ISOHunt to find torrents for the stuff I want to keep. thx JD

Re:How about DirecTV TiVo ??

[Warlock7]

You can keep waiting. DirecTV dropped TiVo and is now using their own half-assed DVR service.

Re:How about DirecTV TiVo ??

[kennybain]

FYI folks, there is a pretty easy hack out there that lets Mac users (and Windows) extract shows from their TiVo, and UPLOADING them as well! Here's what I have - in a nutshell, and how I do it:

My hardware:
DirecTiVo Series 2. The original 40Gig HD was removed and upgraded to a 160Gig drive about 2 years ago.
Powerbook G4 867MHz
Linksys USB100M

Most of the instructions to follow to upgrade HD are in these two threads:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.ph p?t=265929
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.ph p?t=250680

Software for Mac:
http://www.tivotool.com/

Most of the setup is automated, you just have to answer a couple of questions that pop up when you run the setup scripts. I enabled vserver and chose to have it load at bootup. I downloaded TivoTool and it provides a Mac interface to vserver. TivoTool basically does everything on the Mac that TiVoToGo does on Windows. The main difference - you have to hack your TiVo to run it (not that complicated).

As others have stated, I also feel that this is a slap in the face to Mac owners. I can't understand TiVo's mentality on this. It is absurd to think that there is nothing wrong with charging us for something that is freely provided to Windows users. With this mentality, there is no wonder that the hacker community has developed free tools for the TiVo that are actually better than the $69 Roxio program.

TivoTool is awesome. With it, you can rip movies from DVD (encode with mpeg4) and upload them to TiVo, as TivoTool has a "TivoServer" program built in!

Long term storage

[Cadre]

OK, I've gotta ask, why would I care if it worked with iTV? My TiVo is already attached to my TV. What point would there be in moving the file from the TiVo to the Mac to the iTV?

Long term storage. I DVRed all of the Expedition Everest episodes on Discovery. In a couple months I'll probably want to watch them again, but I sure don't want them just sitting on my DVR in the meantime taking up space.

Re:Long term storage

[Hawthorne01]

Or watching it on other TV's in the home. I like the idea of one central media server versus having TV shows, movies and music scattered on various devices around the home.

Titanium

[Nom du Keyboard]

Titanium huh? What is it that makes this metal more valuable Silver, Gold, and Platinum editions of various products? For sure Aluminum was once as costly as gold, and now we make "Tin Cans" out of it.

Re:Titanium

[HTH NE1]

Titanium huh? What is it that makes this metal more valuable Silver, Gold, and Platinum editions of various products?

It is more suitable for bio-implantation and has the virtually unique property of osseointegration.

working with iTV would harm TiVo renevues

[Anonymous Coward]

this won't work with iTV or iTunes. It provides a specialized player for the .tivo format rather than a Quicktime codec that could be used by iTunes, Front Row and iTV.

And TiVo's got darn good reasons for wanting it that way -- if that worked seamlessly then you could use this plus an iTV to watch shows in other rooms without having to pay for additional TiVo monthly/yearly subscriptions or buy secondary TiVo units (i.e. bypass TiVo's Multi-Room Viewing feature). Or to phrase it another way, if this offered good integration with iTunes/iTV it would be like re-offering Lifetime service for MRV and TiVo has made it quite clear they don't want to sell Lifetime service anymore.

The best you'll be able to do with this (for iTunes, Front Row and iTV integration) is add some applescript to have it convert the videos for iPod use and then drop them into iTunes.

Re:working with iTV would harm TiVo renevues

[Hawthorne01]

The best you'll be able to do with this (for iTunes, Front Row and iTV integration) is add some applescript to have it convert the videos for iPod use and then drop them into iTunes.

And it iPod resolution, too. Crappity crapcrapcrap.

And thus, my dream of TiVo ends. Looks like it's an El Gato for me.

Apple's MPEG-2 codec doesn't work

[Anonymous Coward]

What you need is an MPEG-2 codec that's capable of playing video/audio synced the way MPEG-2 on a DVD is synced and Apple's Tuicktime MPEG-2 codec can't do that.

If this bundle had included (sadly it doesn't) an MPEG-2 Quicktime codec capable of playing video/audio synced the way MPEG-2 on a DVD is synced it would definately be worth the $100 price. In fact quite a few non-TiVo-owning Mac users would fork over $100 for that MPEG-2 Quicktime codec.

Roxio is the opposite of apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Worst user interfaces ever. what was apple thinking?

Re:Roxio is the opposite of apple

[dangitman]

Uhhh, what does Apple have to do with it? Roxio and TiVo are independent of Apple.

Generations / DRM isn't about copying

[bill_mcgonigle]

Then, we get together and "average our files." Often times this will destroy the watermark but leave the original media intact.

Yes, but to do so you incur a generation loss.

I'm with you though, watermarks are a great alternative to DRM from a user's perspective and from the purported-need perspective. Then you realize that DRM isn't about controlling how many copies of a work you can make, but controlling where and when you can play your media and suddenly the watermark isn't effective DRM anymore.

eyeTV

[MrMarket]

Why would you use Tivo for this? If you want to digitally record TV and transfer video to other devices, why wouldn't you ditch the Tivo and get a mac mini and eyeTV?

Re:eyeTV

[buttugly]

Note that there is no eyeTV that supports CableCard. Tivo (at least gen 3) does.

No TivoToGo for Series 3

[Anonymous Coward]

TivoToGo (both PC and Mac) will not work for Series 3. The Tivo Series 3 will accept Tivo Media Center sharing of photos and music from the PC to the Tivo. But TivoToGo, TivoGoBack (videos from PC to Tivo) and Multi-Room Viewing (tivo to tivo) are all disabled on the Series 3.

The current Tivo scape-goat is that CableCard made them disable all the features. However, the CableCard license has nothing restricting TivoGoBack or when MRV is from Series 2 to Series 3. Also, the CableCard license/specification allows for some programs to be transfered if the CableCard permission bits for the program specify it. Currently, the Series 3 ignores these permission bits and disables all transfers from the Series 3.

"Tivo To Go" is aptly named

[eargang]

With my increasing frustration with TiVo's performance (recording shows I've already seen), not even an attempt at trying to do something about cut off shows, zero innovation in their series 2 product and apparently not that much more in series 3... "TiVo To Go" will be the headline of my next blog post. At this point, why continue paying $12.95 if I can get only slightly more inferior products for about half that from the cable company?

Yeah, right.

[Blakey Rat]

This has been on Wired's vaporware list for like 3 years now. I'll believe it when I see it installed on a computer and working.

Stick with TivoDecode/TivoDecode Manager

[mergy]

I am VERY happy with TivoDecode and TivoDecode Manager. The work David Benesch has been doing is awesome. It is VERY easy for a newbie to deal with. It also proves that if Tivo really gave a damn about Mac users, they could have put a very small amount of resources on it and come up with something. They really don't care and the efforts of people developing tivodecode and TivoDecode Manager for Tivo users is really awesome.

http://thebenesch.com/tdm/

Tivo is has been going down the same road other device companies have gone down where they support multiple platforms equally and later they create platform feature parity so the under-supported platform (Mac in most cases) is so bad that no one uses it and they have a reason to cancel it because of lack of interest. Here it seems rather than cancel, Roxio can use it as a lifeline to push their own product. Tivo is no longer about creating cool stuff for it's users, it really is more about bundling what hold it has left on its base with other companies (through ads recently and now this).

Tivodecode is slick and easy to deal with. Get tivo a good network connection since 30 minutes of show is right around 600 megs of data to transfer down. The great thing about the 'Manager' is the decode on the fly.

Amazon Bigger Discount

[Anonymous Coward]

It's currently $79.99 at Amazon. Free shipping and most likely no sales tax too. Why you would pay more to the overcharging manufacturer is beyond me. Stuff is always* cheaper at Amazon.



* For values of always approaching damn near most of the time, but not quite always.

Now I just need MythTV for Windows!

[toganet]

Or at least a working frontend.

Then again, if I'm going to complain about the MythTV project, I'll start with MythMusic. Whoever designed the user interface to that plugin should be drawn and quartered. I am honestly planning to use it as a case study in how NOT to design an interface.

WARNING! TiVo transfers are BROKEN

[AWhistler]

Some time after Thanksgiving (4th Thursday in November for us Yanks) I discovered that several of my transfers from my TiVO to my TiVOToGo PC fails after 1-5 Megabytes downloaded. Nothing works. The problem is in the TiVO software, not TiVOToGo. Therefore, the problem exists in the Macintosh version also. If you try using the TiVO web interface, the problem exists. The problem has lasted for over 6 weeks now, and TiVO seems to pretend that the problem is trivial or doesn't exist.

So if you Mac folks download this, be warned that you may have transfer problems, and that it is not necessarily a bug in the new Mac software.

Re:In other news...another badly ported, late app.

[repetty]

>> Tell me again why the Mac is a better platform is the apps lag by years?

The main virtue of the Mac platform is that it pisses guys like you off.

It's a privacy violation

[Rix]

Rebroadcasting is specifically allowed in some jurisdictions (such as Canada).

No, you're not violating copyright

[Rix]

"Copyright", by the way, is not capitalized unless it is at the beginning of a sentence.

US copyright law does not apply outside of its borders. It is perfectly legal in my jurisdiction to record and rebroadcast (in any form I choose) any transmission.

Re:$100 vs free - thanks tivo! (sarcasm)

[Anonymous Coward]

TiVo can fuck themselves with a cactus if they think i'm going to pay $100 for something that windows users got for free OVER A FUCKING YEAR AGO.

Incompetent asshats. You bet your sweet ass that the very second iTV becomes available my TiVo unit will have a new home in the bottom of my condo's dumpster.

I don't get it

[DragonHawk]

"Unless TiVo change their policies about gathering information on what I watch"

Um, you can call customer service and opt-out of the anonymous tracking of viewing habits. I believe you have been able to since day one.

"forcing downloads of advertising and other content that I don't want"

Most of the advertising content is delivered via recordings of broadcast TV, not download. So far, anyway. The advertising content mainly consists of nicely isolated screens. I'll admit to being a little perplexed as to why it bothers you. It doesn't impact DVR performance in any way that I can determine, and unless you seek it out, you generally don't see it.

People who object to TiVo because they have to pay $12/month or whatever, that I can understand. But your objections seem kind of specious.

Re:$100 vs free (and no rebate for new users)

[tohasu]

I purchased Toast 8 yesterday for $99 and found, on reading the fine pint on the rebate form (downloaded and printed after my purchase), that I am NOT eligilbe for the $30 rebate since I did not previously own the software. The Roxio site does an excellent job of concealing this requirement. Kudos to the little weasel who created it. Do you see anything here about the rebate being connected to previous product ownership? http://partner.roxio.com/affiliates/tivotoast/defa ult.aspx I didn't. Nothing on the order page either. Deceptive practice at best.