Indian Rocket Blasts into Space

Quacking Duck writes "Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) successfully launched it's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV-C7) rocket from the Srikharikota launch-pad. The rocket carried 4 satellites into space, 2 Indian and one each from Argentina and Indonesia. Interestingly, one of ISRO's payloads, Space Capsule Recovery Experiment (SRE-1), expected to return to Earth 13 days after launch, will be the first test of its re-entry mechanism. This is a step towards ISRO's ambitious goal of designing and building a cheap reusable launch vehicle. ISRO is also planning a manned mission to the moon, Chandrayan-1, which is expected to use a modified PSLV rocket which was used for this launch. This successful launch comes close on the heels of the failed July 2006 GSLV lauch which had ended in an expensive fireworks display over the Bay of Bengal. Another GSLV launch is planned for later this year."

Comments

Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

Much like the American tests this will prove nicely to Pakistan/China that India can (well at some point in the future) drop a nuke wherever they please on the planet, thus joining the big boy club. Oh and it also proves they can return a space capsule safely.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[somersault]

Do you only think of other countries as threats or something? What have India, China or Pakistan ever done to you apart from invent awesome food and provide cheap labour due to their developing economies?

Though I do think they'll be dropping nukes faster than anyone can say Srikharikota. Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue!

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

It is Sriharikota.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[somersault]

That's easier to say, someone should correct the summary.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[freakxx]

well, let me tell you some facts why India or china haven't done anything substantial if u r comparing with USA. India or China were under the colonies until around 60 years ago and during those time, they were not able to produce even a nail by their own because they were not allowed to. After that, freedom came (thanks to Mahatma Gandhi for his excellent non-violent leadership against the Britons and also thanks to Japanese and Germans for initiating the WW2), these countries started everything of their own from very scratch and after a course of 60 years, India and China both are doing exceptionally well and will continue to do to in future as well. Look at China, they sent their guy to space without any help from outside (and USA has regretted of their decision not to include China in their International Space Station project). Very soon, China will be standing in front of USA in every aspect, including space technology. Time has come that few people like you should wake up. Similar to China, India is also doing too good. Indians have proved themselves that they have capabilities. They are launching their satellites by their own rockets with exceptional success rate. The failure of GSLV (to put the satellites in Geo-Synchronous orbit, 36000Km away from the Earth) six months ago also didn't go in vain. They learned many things from that failure and have pin-pointed what went wrong and you will see a successful GSLV launch by mid of this year. You talked about nukes....the devices what India detonated in 1998 (includes two thermo-nuclear devices) was developed completely by their own (after the 1st nuke test in 1974, India was put under sanctions forbidding any help on nuclear issue). India is also planning to launch their first unmanned moon mission until 2005 and manned mission until 2020. Again, I would like to remind that this is only after 60 years of independence. Can you remember what USA were doing after their 60 years?!! They were searching gold in California and killing each-other on the issue of racism and slavery. India and China are in much better position. As far as dropping nukes are concerned, India has already a policy of not-first-nuclear-attack. Also, history says who used first nuclear bomb....it's USA killing thousands of innocent people in Japan. You should be ashamed of suggesting others on nuclear things. Others are not going to be as arrogant and barbarous as USA were. One free suggestion at last....think a bit before speaking anything!!

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

Correction: India is also planning to launch their first unmanned moon mission until 2005 and manned mission until 2020.

India is also planning to launch their first unmanned moon mission until "2008" and manned mission until 2020.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[somersault]

Actually I didn't first suggest nukes, I was replying to someone else. I also am not racist, I don't think that Indians or Chinese people are dumb, in fact all (well.. most :p ) humans have capacity for intelligence, and India and China really have people who are motivated, and also just plain a LOT of people, which helps to boost their productivity.

Note that India and China wouldn't have had rockets at the same time America was just growing, even if they had been free. That's entirely to do with how much knowledge and technology humanity as a whole has developed. Especially since the advent of the internet, anyone can build a nuclear reactor or send a rocket into space if they really wanted to (well, obviously only if they have access to the required resources and funding as well as the information on how to build a rocket, etc). In a day when kids are building nuclear reactors in their back yard, I'm not too surprised to hear that India and China are sending rockets into space! Not to say that it isn't quite an achievement in-and-of itself, even if it means diddly-squat to me. Congratulations India :)

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[The Cydonian]

s'ri' hari ko't'a, to properly transliterate the extended vowel sounds. Literaly translates to fort ("koot'a") of sri' hari (either a local ruler called Sri Hari, or, more likely, a reference to Lord Vishnu).

Think of it as an Indian version of Fort Lauderdale or something. :-)

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[tomalpha]

Space exploration is often cited as providing a country a tangible goal. Something to aim for, boost national pride, focus industry, provide technological spinoffs (whether product - Teflon etc.) or industrial capacity, and provide a sneaky way of subsidy through government contract. You can well imagine that India, looking to the US (and even some extent the USSR's program) would want in on that.

Of course, this leaves out the fact that any country that wants to launch satellites into orbit - whether for commercial, military or espionage reasons is at the mercy of the few nations with launch capability, both in terms of cost and possible political veto.

I, for one, can well understand why any nation might want a space program. (See the recent muttering about the UK's fairly timid approach to this.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[doomy]

I thought koota ment dog, for a sec there I was all excited at the possibility that Lassy was going to space.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[freakxx]

Especially since the advent of the internet, anyone can build a nuclear reactor or send a rocket into space if they really wanted to (well, obviously only if they have access to the required resources and funding as well as the information on how to build a rocket, etc). In a day when kids are building nuclear reactors in their back yard, I'm not too surprised to hear that India and China are sending rockets into space!

well, if u r talking about firecrackers and those stupid Gilbert U-238 toys, u r correct....but not otherwise, otherwise Osama Bin Laden would have used some nuke rather than air-planes to strike the twin-tower. It is same as you know every thing how to make, say, a petrol engine from book....but when u start putting things together to achieve a real engine, u need to have a lot of expertise and book-knowledge simply doesn't help beyond an extent. Same thing with weapon grade uranium...even a kid knows that U235 can be obtained after processing U238 in centrifuges but how many countries are able to get U235....I would say, very few!

Don't forget to use capital letters when congratulating India next time on the occasion of successful launch of GSLV scheduled after 6-7 months ;)

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

It's spelled "you are", you illiterate slob!

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure we'll (British) think of reasons why we shouldn't do it and cut the budget when it's 70% complete, muttering, "Oh well, mustn't grumble. Time for a nice cuppa tea."

We had a space programme once before. And a supersonic airliner. And a nuclear power industry. And a car industry. And a computer industry...

What do we have now? Merchant Bankers, shopping centres, bureacrats and PHBs.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[somersault]

The thing with using aeroplanes to bomb the twin towers was actually pretty clever - no expensive/difficult to obtain weaponry needed, and it's not like the army are going to blow up a passenger airline, but they are going to take down any missiles heading towards the country.

If someone really wanted to, they could cause amazing amounts of damage by blowing up their car or something like that. If you're a fanatic that doesn't value your own life then you can do a lot more damage than someone that's trying to do something but still keep their life at the end of it..

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

You might want to correct your own grammar before telling other people to use capital letters! "u" instead of "you" and "r" instead of "are" just proves that you are not one to correct anyone's grammar! By the way, you also need capital letters at the start of a sentence.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[William_Lee]

I find it interesting that this parent gets modded insightful...when there is little of actual substance in it...

these countries started everything of their own from very scratch and after a course of 60 years, India and China both are doing exceptionally well and will continue to do to in future as well.

Um, no...while they may be doing exceptionally well, they did not develop everything from scratch. Technology does not exist in a vacuum. India in particular has the British to thank for much of their infrastructure despite all of the horrible negatives of their colonization. Both of them built on an existing knowledge base to develop themselves, just like every other country does. In the case of the Chinese at least, they also routinely stole tons of classified information from the US.

Can you remember what USA were doing after their 60 years?!! They were searching gold in California and killing each-other on the issue of racism and slavery. India and China are in much better position.
This is the most ignorant statement of the post, and the main reason it should be modded down. Are you kidding with this specious argument? In case you forgot, the US was founded in 1776, when none of this technology had been invented yet (a great deal of which would be invented in the West btw). Luckily, India still has no problems with race...cough...caste system...cough...
Also, history says who used first nuclear bomb....it's USA killing thousands of innocent people in Japan. You should be ashamed of suggesting others on nuclear things.

I don't know if using a nuke was the right decision, but the fire bombing campaigns in WWII did much more damage than both nukes combined. As far as barbarism went, you may want to look into what the Japanese were doing to the Koreans and Chinese (and American POWs) during WW II. In any case, it is unfortunate that WWII had to happen, but the US had little choice to become engaged in it. They did what they thought was necessary at the time, just like every other combatant.
Others are not going to be as arrogant and barbarous as USA were.
You haven't studied human nature lately, have you?

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[SpooForBrains]

I'm sorry, I have to take issue with some of this. Firstly, India did not start everything from scratch after the British left. Anyone who has attempted to negotiate the beaurocracy (for example negotiating the release of a container from customs or getting a telephone line installed) can see the shadows of the British establishment that were left behind. The entire Indian system of Government is a very close mirror of the British system - the dual house system for starters.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mean to belittle the accomplishments of the Indian people since Independence, far from it, but to impy that they threw everything away and started again from scratch is just nonsense, and devalues the efforts of all the political leaders who worked so hard to make sure a country so large and chaotic CAN be effectively governed.

And as for "Others are not going to be as arrogant and barbarous as USA were" are you intending to gloss over the recent period of BJP-dominated politics which was, in my opinion, one of the darkest moments of Indian political history and saw aggression against Pakistan increase SIGNIFICANTLY? Fortunately, unlike the USA, the voting public in your country realised their mistake and voted them the hell out. By the way, that very creative piece of political manouvering by Congress/Sonia Gandhi and associates was quite a joy to watch.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[freakxx]

u understood wrong my dear....I didn't say to use capital letters to point out his grammatical mistake....i said that as a joke and that is having a meaning as follows:

In small letters: congratulations => simply congratulations

however, if I use capital letters, it becomes: CONGRATULATIONS => congratulations with better spirit and more intensity!!

phew!! :-)

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[ozbird]

Again, I would like to remind that this is only after 60 years of independence.

What's independence got to do with anything? Claiming that two periods of time 170 years apart are equivalent is disingenuous at best.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, I just have to reply to this... the temptation is just WAY to strong here.....

First off... China bought space tech from Russia... they didn't come up with it on their own.

Second... 60 years after our independence was still in the 19th century. NO ONE had space tech at that point.

Third.... yes we dropped an atom bomb on Japan.. two in fact. Now, how many innocent people did they kill during the war? You should probably read a bit on what they (Japanese) did in China during that time.

Fourth.... The reason China was so far behind was beacuse of the communist revolution. When you kill teachers and free thinkers, you tend to lose your edge in the world market place.

Fifth... China was never a colony.

It appears that you are not American, and that you have a lot of national pride. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it is quite commendable. However, before you make an arrogant statement such as "think a bit before speaking", you really should have your facts straight.

If India wants to develop a space program rather than see to the needs of it's people (ummm starvation, disease, over population, etc....), more power to them. And yes, both India and China have invented some awesome food, no argument there.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[The_Wilschon]

Oh a policy! I feel so much better now! Haha and to think I was ever worried.

On a less sarcastic note, the USA at the end of WWII thought pretty hard and carefully about things, and came to the eventual conclusion that ending the war quickly by dropping little boy and fat man would actually result in fewer deaths and less problems in the future for both nations. So you would rather that we had just kept island hopping, probably for another couple of years, killed hundreds of thousands more Japanese and American soldiers, and sent both nations into much greater economic distress (war debts) than they would already be in anyway? I for one would rather have used the bombs.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[SpooForBrains]

I'd rather a few more hundred thousand Japanese (and indeed American) soldiers than a few hundred thousand civillians. If you're fighting a war, your primary target should be the military, no matter what the opponent's tactics.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Atheose]

You're missing the point; the parent was trying to say that if anyone could build a nuclear bomb in their back yard--like the original poster claimed--then it would have happened by now, and probably many times over.

Sure, the 9/11 attacks were "cost effective", but the ~2000 killed in 9/11 would pale in comparison to the ~8,000,000 (population of NYC) killed in a nuclear blast. Between a few felled buildings and all of Manhattan Island being turned into a flat sheet of class, which do you think would cause overwhelmingly more physical and psychological damage?

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[The Cydonian]

The mods seem to think yours was an attempt at levity, but I'll give you a serious response.

kuttaa in Hindi certainly means 'dog'. That's 'ku' as in "Kumar" as in "Kumar's at No 42", that rather popular British sitcom with British-Indian characters. The 't' here is a soft 'th', as in 'thalidomine'. Additionally, it is actually a conjunct-consonant; meaning, two 'th's combine together to form an extended 'thth' sound. Finally, the vowel at the end is a long 'a', and is pronounced as in 'fake', thus forming the word, 'kuttaa'.

The word kooTa, on the other hand, comes from a completely different language altogether. It is from Telugu, the predominant tongue in the region around the launch site. To a native South/South East Asian speaker, 'kuttaa' and 'kooTa' are quite distinct, not just for the first vowel-sound ('u' versus an elongated 'oo'), but also for the second consonant ('th' versus a hard 'T', as in 'Tango') and for the second vowel-sound (an elongated 'aa' versus a shorter 'a').

Greetings from your friendly vyákaraNa nazi. :-)

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[asliarun]

"Firstly, India did not start everything from scratch after the British left. Anyone who has attempted to negotiate the beaurocracy (for example negotiating the release of a container from customs or getting a telephone line installed) can see the shadows of the British establishment that were left behind."

Yes, but bureaucracy is not exactly progress, is it? The real and meaningful progress that India has made has been in the last 10 odd years, after the economy was opened up and a lot of government controlled industries were privatized. Since then, India's economy has been growing by 8-10%. Before this, India was placidly chugging along at a 3-4% growth rate (and they called it the Hindu growth rate) which was taking the country nowhere. The only reason why China is way ahead of India today is that they had the foresight to liberalize and open up their economy a few decades before India has done.

"are you intending to gloss over the recent period of BJP-dominated politics which was, in my opinion, one of the darkest moments of Indian political history and saw aggression against Pakistan increase SIGNIFICANTLY?"

You're correct in the fact that the Gujrat riots were a blot on the country and more so on the party. However, "aggression against Pakistan" should be reworded "firm against Pakistan". Pakistan sends and funds hardcore terrorists, and their intelligence wing, the dreaded ISI (along with their armed forces) completely work hand in hand with the Al Qaeda. They train thousands of terrorists along the border areas and these terrorists camps are well documented and imaged. Most of these terrorists land up in India, and these terrorists kill more people in India every year than the 9/11 attacks.

Unfortunately, the leadership in India has been too weak to take a firm stand on this issue and the USA turns a blind eye on this issue, as these terrorists do not kill americans (yet) and because they need Pakistan to gain access to neighbouring Afghanistan. Note that these terrorists almost fomented an India-Pakistan war a few years ago and when the Indian army retaliated, the terrorists captured or killed were roughly 50% Pakistani soldiers and 50% terrorists.

Oh, by the way, what I've said is not a biased point of view, and can very easily be verified on the internet, if you dig around for facts and impartial writings on the India-Pakistan situation.

So, the BJP was not exactly aggressive against Pakistan but was simply being firm. In fact, BJP went out of its way to mend relationships with Pakistan and introduced bus services between the two countries. Some of the good things about the BJP are their firm leadership, liberal and capitalistic economic policies, and good external affairs. The only reason why they lost the previous election was because their campaign (so-called India Shining campaign) did not connect with the poor Indian at all. Their campaign ended up alienating the poor farmer and poor labourer, who are the ones that actually vote in India, and instead focused on the middle and rich class who like to crib more and rarely vote. Their election loss had no other reason. So many people die in India every year that the average Indian stopped giving a shit about the Gujrat riots after a year or so, even though a few thousands died. Heck, more farmers commit suicide every year because of chronic indebtedness and because of hunger. And see, religion (and casteism and what not) IS the opiate of the masses, especially when the masses are chronically hungry and stare at despair every night.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

And US stole the rocket technology or more like grabbed it from Germany after WWII.

In the history of mankind, no other country in the world has shown the penchant for single handedly pursuing destruction/displacement of life such as the US.

We just have to go talk to the native americans, the africans, the japanese, the koreans, the afghanis, the iranis, the iraqi's, the kurds, the latin-americans .. and in some cases even the poor white americans, which we fondly like to call "white trash".

In the last 50 years after WWII, there have been more people killed (albiet gradually) than WWII itself.

It is easy to think, "Oh! but they were fighting among themselves killing themselves ..", the unspoken and the untold story is of the invisible middleman or otherwise known as lets fuck the world pro-actively american foreign policy.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[somersault]

The difference being that nuclear materials are strictly controlled, but it's still possible to cause a lot of damage with no specialist tools, if you have the will.

I hope nobody would be stupid enough to build a nuclear bomb, I haven't looked into what would be required for it, but even building a tiny nuclear reactor is enough to irradiate people for quite some distance. The effects of that can end up being just as bad as if a bomb had gone off.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[snottgoblin]

"are you intending to gloss over the recent period of BJP-dominated politics which was, in my opinion, one of the darkest moments of Indian political history and saw aggression against Pakistan increase SIGNIFICANTLY" Trust me there have been darker moments under past Congress governments.

Politics aside from a governance point of view the BJP led government was one of the better governments India has had... As mentioned in another post .. they pursued unprecedented peace negotiations with Pakistan but responded in kind when Pakistan launched an attack on Kashmir through terrorist proxies.

Their handling of foreign policy was bold and extremely efficient. They initiated the Golden quadrilateral project that involved creating a massive road system connecting all of India - A much needed infrastructural boost and the project's development is now in a mess under the congress government. The Indian economy did very well under them.

The only blot on the BJP government was the Gujurat riots and it is something that would have likely happened no matter which government was in power. But neverthless that is something they should take responsibility for. But as another post has mentioned they lost the elections because the poor voted against them for lack of any visible improvement to their lives even though the rest of India was flourishing.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish India-Pakistan develop a relationship like US-Canada.. so we could make fun of their accent! Or something else, like Mush's mustache. Very Charlie-Chaplinesque, no? Or maybe his grammar (and that of the entire pak cricket team).

As far as the launch is concerned.. good we succeeded.. especially after our space programme head likes to make loud announcements of sending missions to the moon. Let's first learn to unlock all the grain locked up in the FDI(?)'s godowns and distribute it to the (lastmile) villager.

And yeah, someone google up pictures of Jap barbarism in WWII and you'll be shocked.

I dno't mean to sound all-knowing here, but having been in the US for a few months (I go back to india in two weeks) - I can't help but think that most anti-other-country tirades are only in the minds of the politicial leaders (due to vested interests) and the media (simply for news sakes). Just like us in India, most americans would like to live their life with a reasonable amount of opportunity and finances.. what the world needs right now is moderate leaders that are willing to forge partnerships in peace , rather than send troops to faraway countries, or call someone a devil or scoff at UN resolutions.

We should just smok-um the peace pipe!

(p.s. and imprison nancy grace. that woman spew venom!)

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[jma05]

The Kota in Sriharikota is Telugu for "Fort". You are confusing it for Kutta, which is Hindi for dog.
Telugu is the language spoken in the state of Andhra Pradesh where Sriharikota is located. It is one of the 2 main IT/outsourcing states (along with Karnataka) of India.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Retric]

Hmm, one would hope but... http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see how the parent is trolling. It sounded kinda funny and I do recall dog being like "Kuttey" or "Kutta" (almost like koota). Sounds similar for non-indian.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

in punjabi koota means dog and thats an indian language and yea i thought that ment dog too lol

http://www.punjabonline.com/servlet/library.langua ge?Action=Vocab&Param=3

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say "bomb, he said "reactor".
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 061119/NEWS03/611190639

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

How about "u" stop using "txt talk" and sounding like an asshat and speak proper English. Twat.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Chris Burke]

Pakistan sends and funds hardcore terrorists, and their intelligence wing, the dreaded ISI (along with their armed forces) completely work hand in hand with the Al Qaeda. They train thousands of terrorists along the border areas and these terrorists camps are well documented and imaged. Most of these terrorists land up in India, and these terrorists kill more people in India every year than the 9/11 attacks.

Unfortunately, the leadership in India has been too weak to take a firm stand on this issue and the USA turns a blind eye on this issue, as these terrorists do not kill americans (yet) and because they need Pakistan to gain access to neighbouring Afghanistan.

I'm not an expert on India-Pakistani relations or their respective histories, but I do know enough that I laughed my freaking ass off when the U.S. asked our "important partner in the War on Terror" to go into the Pushtun-controlled region of Pakistan and bring back high ranking al Qaeda members. As if they could, and as if they'd want to if they could! I mean, I expected that we'd turn a blind eye to what Uzbekistan (or any other dictatorship) was doing as long as we needed them, but this was some hilarious combination of ignorance and wishful thinking. Unsurprisingly, the small group of soldiers they sent in a token gesture came back empty handed.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

and is pronounced as in 'fake'

Are you sure you don't mean like the long 'a' sound in 'far'?

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[The Cydonian]

You're right. 'Fake is a fake, a pretender; 'far' is not too far from the original sound. :-)

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh. I feel quite pleased with myself for spotting that now... I can only speak a dozen words of Hindi you see :)
(I can read a lot of devanagri characters though, so I'm familiar with the sounds involved. Although I can't for the life of me pronounce most of them accurately! heh)

The 'a' in 'fake' sounds more like another vowel sound to me (maybe if you clip off the end slightly as you say it), which I can best approximate here by writing 'e`'.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM

[tehcyder]

In a day when kids are building nuclear reactors in their back yard

Now that's what I call a dangerous neighbourhood!

HELLO PLEASE

[Anonymous Coward]

I would very much be loving a curry thank you punjabba punjabba

Space Race 2.0?

[Virtual_Raider]

I wonder if this would spur the USA and Russia to speed up their space programs. I'm not sure about Russia anymore but at least the US has stated that they want to go back to the moon and put some dude up in Mars sometime on this half of the century if memory serves.

Re:Space Race 2.0?

[ananthap]

Hi, this is Anantha frpm India. No space race here. Just a small launch catering to the needs of the ISRO trying to go commercial. Maybe offer to launch satellites for other countries etc. I remember earlier launches were for communication satellites etc. Now re-entry=re-use=cost-saving. About CHANDRAYAN-1, it will remain a pipe dream of the pols beacause unlike a satellite launch, there is no way it will be commercially viable. (Race with star wars!?!). End

Re:Space Race 2.0?

[SpooForBrains]

They're (the USA) going to have to stop waging wars first. I don't imagine there's enough money available for both.

Re:Space Race 2.0?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another way to raise the finance would be to commercialise the space race by showing the selection, training and missions in a 24 hour reality TV/webcast format with massive advertising. Imagine an astronaut's suit covered in logos like a racing driver's suit or the Indian rocket with a Coke strips painted on it. There's a book called Moon Blog which takes this as a starting point: www.camelittle.com

Re:Space Race 2.0?

[Bloke down the pub]

Hi, this is Anantha frpm India.

No, there's nothing else you can help me with today, but if you could just give me the balance of my current account - like I originally asked 20 minutes ago - that would be totally fine and dandy. Oh, that fake geordie accent isn't fooling anyone.

Re:Space Race 2.0?

[mangu]

Just think of the moon mission that $375 billion could buy...

Re:Space Race 2.0?

[Sri Ramkrishna]

I'd like to nominate George W. Bush! He'd make an excellent dude in Mars. Besides I suspect he's from Mars anyways. It'll almost be like coming home.

sri

Four satellites with one "stone"?

[msobkow]

Not bad. Not bad at all! *g*

IT IS vs ITS

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are about to write IT'S, ask yourself "IS IT 'IT IS'" ?
If it's not IT IS, then it's ITS.

Think: HIS HERS ITS.
not HI'S HER'S IT'S.

Otherwise you look like an idiot.

Indian Rocket Blasts into Space

[Killjoy_NL]

Just 1 Indian?
That would make one hell of a fartjoke :D

Re:Indian Rocket Blasts into Space

[Killjoy_NL]

Crap, I misread the title, sorry :/

About time

[BillGatesLoveChild]

> Indian Rocket Blasts into Space

Yes. About time. The existing telemarking satellites are choked. Ah excuse me I have an incoming call...

Re:About time

[khakipuce]

Why is everyone having a dig at the Indians over telemarketing and Call Centres? The Indians are only providing the service that is paid for by Western companies, in other words we only have ourselves to blame.

People were patronising and cynical about Japanese attempts to industrialise and develop technologies in the 1950's and 60's, say no more ...

Re:About time

[BillGatesLoveChild]

I heard India is going to replace its national flag. It will have a motif of two crossed handsets.

> People were patronising and cynical about Japanese attempts to industrialise
> and develop technologies in the 1950's and 60's, say no more ...
True, but Pikachyu never called me during dinner.

We can tell if there is an anti-Indian trend when (1) Tom Clancy writes an Indian-bashing novel where Jack Ryan is driven insane by telemarketing calls, even on his CIA hotline, called "Debt of Phone Company" (2) Michael Cricton (name deliberately misspelt) writes (and I use the term loosely) an Indian-bashing novel called "Pappadam Rising" about the trials and dramas in an Indian callcenter. Much like his very wonky "Rising Sun" novel his research for this will probably consist of no more than a Madras Curry for lunch.

Re:About time

[LordNimon]

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

Re:About time

[BillGatesLoveChild]

It's a fine line between Trolls and Humour. But I thought it was a funny troll :-)

Re:About time

[posterlogo]

(-1, racist)
(-1, arrogant)

Re:About time

[BillGatesLoveChild]

Disliking Telemarketers doesn't make one racist.

Re:About time

[BillGatesLoveChild]

or Michael Crichton for that matter.

Re:About time

[tehcyder]

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

Yeah, because the only fun parties are those with racist twats present.

idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Flying pig]

Apart from the fact that life is too short to argue over this one, consider that it arises from an inconsistency in English.
HIS book (not HES book)
HER book (you have it wrong - it is NOT "hers book")
ITS book
MY book
John's book
See the pattern? His, her and my are inflected, not formed by adding an S onto he,she and me respectively.

To form a possessive by addition, we add apostrophe s

So what do we do with "it"? "its" is not at first an inflected form. It appears to be formed by adding an S onto "it", and by the usual rules would therefore be "it's". Applying the same rule backwards to the other forms would give hes,shes and mes books respectively.

This is an example of a case where the uneducated thinks one thing, the partly educated thinks another (because they were taught a half-understood rule at school) whereas the highly educated professional (like my English teacher, a first in English from Cambridge) with a deeper understanding of grammar, points out that the rule in use is arbitrary and you could do things either way.

Grammar Nazis. Sheesh.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Anonymous Coward]

The sad part is why the &*() are the Nammar Nazis here in the first place. This is a tech site. They should run on over to a republican (and even some democrat's) site, and join the other Nazis.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Konster]

Swing your dick at any false normalities of education versus results and all we get from your post is that:

1) You wasted your education studying linguistic semantics; if you went to Ivy, chances are you wasted a lot more than mere time on you part, and that money could have gone to real academic endeavors like...science.

2) You are an asshole and have no valid contribution to science other than yammering about sentence structure and grammar; things scientists don't give a fuck about because any reasonable human being can pull an idea out of a hat and see the idea for what it is, gram crackers and spelking aside and felch fests that assholes like you tend to dwell on spppellleing and irreleyvant shit, it's the idea, and not the delivery.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Petrushka]

whereas the highly educated professional (like my English teacher, a first in English from Cambridge) with a deeper understanding of grammar, points out that the rule in use is arbitrary and you could do things either way.

Well, be fair, it's not arbitrary -- it's for very specific historical reasons, to wit, that many nouns in English used to form their genitive by adding on an extra syllable '-es', but as time went on it was easier to skip out the 'e' ("syncopation"), so that the apostrophe is quite regularly acting to indicate that part of the word has indeed been abbreviated, as apostrophes always do in English; while on the other hand 'it', as a pronoun, was always irregular and had 'its' (not 'ites') as its genitive.

But this is all hideously off-topic (and wouldn't be worth commenting on if not for the extraordinary self-centredness and narrow-mindedness of the sibling responses to your post that have gone up so far). To get back on-topic, India's Space Research Organisation officially rocks.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[TommyMc]

2) You are an asshole and have no valid contribution to science other than yammering about sentence structure and grammar; things scientists don't give a fuck about because any reasonable human being can pull an idea out of a hat and see the idea for what it is, gram crackers and spelking aside and felch fests that assholes like you tend to dwell on spppellleing and irreleyvant shit, it's the idea, and not the delivery.

That's the most agressive agreement with someone i've ever seen.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[clickclickdrone]

>It's the idea, not the delivery
But if the delivery isn't clear because the author can't construct a meaningful sentence, the idea is kind of lost.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Anonymous Coward]

Invoking Godwin's Law on your first response?

No stamina to give it a full run?

You aren't sorry, so why make the claim?

Besides, using his, hers, etc. has nothing to do with contractions. Why include the naff? "It's" is a contraction. Period. That means "its" must be the correct for possession. Everything else, specificallyyou said may be true on the surface, but not germane as the issue is an apostrophe, not involving other pronouns. It's an exception. People can't remember a simple exception in this particular piece of the written language but have no problem with exceptions in coding syntax?

That's twisted.

I will admit it's probably worse than the Greengrocer's apostrophe. ;)

Besides, it was in the posted text. The submittor may be uninformed, but the editorial board should know better by now. If all they do is press a button to post it and don't actually look at it first (or changed it to make it wrong), then approval is a dunsel action and should be removed.

If the load of wading through too many articles overwhelms them and they can't handle it, then why not campaign and nominate yourself? After all, someone in possession of sophisticated skill and knowledge can easily make it right.

(Your over analysis might slow you down.)

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Anonymous Coward]

But if the delivery isn't clear because the author can't construct a meaningful sentence, the idea is kind of lost.

You have a not with idea to speak. So don't.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Guuge]

Whether it's okay to be pedantic about grammar or not, your analysis is flawed. There is no justification in English for forming possessive pronouns with an apostrophe. You are arguing to make "it" the lone exception to this rule by extrapolating a pattern from a different class of words. While tempting and perhaps even natural, it does not stand up to a basic examination of the underlying pronoun grammar.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[edittard]

Apart from the fact that life is too short to argue over this one, consider that it arises from an inconsistency in English.

So what? It is how it is, and if you use it wrongly you're wrong. If you ever get round to learning any other languages you'll learn that they're not exactly as regular as C++ either.

I'll reinforce the point someone else made: even if it's excusable for the submitter to make the error, an editor should have caught & corrected it - it's what they're there for.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Anonymous Coward]

that money could have gone to real academic endeavors like...science.

Ah, you mean the stuff you wanted to study but couldn't, because you're too stupid and couldn't even graduate from High School?

You are an asshole and have no valid contribution to science

While your contribution is sweeping floors and cleaning toilets at the local tech college?

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[The Evil Couch]

2) You are an asshole and have no valid contribution to science other than yammering about sentence structure and grammar; things scientists don't give a fuck about because any reasonable human being can pull an idea out of a hat and see the idea for what it is, gram crackers and spelking aside and felch fests that assholes like you tend to dwell on spppellleing and irreleyvant shit, it's the idea, and not the delivery.

Uh, no. Spelling matters in science. If you don't believe me, go ahead and freely interchange nitrates and nitrites and see how well that turns out.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an example of a case where the uneducated thinks one thing, the partly educated thinks another (because they were taught a half-understood rule at school) whereas the highly educated professional (like my English teacher, a first in English from Cambridge) with a deeper understanding of grammar, points out that the rule in use is arbitrary and you could do things either way.

Many grammar and spelling rules are completely arbitrary or inconsistently applied. That doesn't mean one should feel free to ignore such rules, though.

Re:idiot pedants (somewhat OT, sorry)

[neimon]

Yes, and of course compilers don't care about syntax; there's all that flexibility and no arbitrary rule at all.

It's all about what you care about. Care about things? You get code syntax right. Care about people, and making yourself understood? You spend a half a freakin' hour figuring out the difference between "its" and "it's".

Now shut the fuck up about elitist this and "wah wah wah I can't learn the parts of speech." Go back to thumbing "ru hawt?" on your fucking cellphone.

WRONG!

[YA_Python_dev]

Chandrayan-1 (the correct spelling is Chandrayaan-1) isn't a manned mission.

Re:WRONG!

[junglee_iitk]

And it is "Sriharikota" and not "Srikharikota"!

More info for interested:
Sri ~ Mr.
hari ~ Hindu God
kota ~ some name (I don't know :) )

Re:WRONG!

[slack_prad]

[i]kota[/i] is Telugu for 'fort'. Telugu is spoken in the state of Andhra Pradesh.

Re:WRONG!

[junglee_iitk]

Telugu is spoken in the state of Andhra Pradesh.

Oh, I know that :)

Re:WRONG!

[ultimad]

Decomposed too much, eh? Srihari ~ Hindu God Kota ~ Castle

Re:Re-entry capsule != ICBM

[corpsmoderne]

The purpose of a re-entry capsule (for maned flight) is slightly different from a ICBM re-entry vehicle. The capsule is supposed to land at speed ~= 0 The ICBM re-entry vehicle impacts Earth or is detonated at a speed of Mach 10 or 15 . It's definitely not the same thing.

no less then 4 stages for leo?

[nietsch]

with 9 launches the rocket has quite proven itself, but why would they design a rocket with 4 stages? Or does that figure include the strap-on boosters? I would expect with material weight going down, it would be more economical to design a rocket with less stages, as 3 stages instead of 4 means 25% less points of failure. Or is life expectancy of their motors so low they need 4 sets to get into orbit reliably?

Re:no less then 4 stages for leo?

[imsabbel]

Generally, more stages== more efficient.
If you can manage to keep them reliable, and keep the additional mass because of the seperate engines/ect small.

Re:no less then 4 stages for leo?

[AtomicBomb]

I guess it is related to the thrust-to-weight ratio of their engine. Increasing from 3 to 4 stages improves efficiency a bit but certainly reduces the reliablity. But, if you don't have enough thrust, you leave with little choice. The other option is to strap a bunch of boosters or use heck lot of engines (You can find some very impressive photo on the web for one of the Soviet Union era rocket... It looks like a fire cracker to me)....

Re:no less then 4 stages for leo?

[khallow]

Staging doesn't really have that much to do with efficiency. As the grandparent points out, a stage is a point of failure, which is the ultimate inefficiency. For example, with enough stages, you could launch something into space using just compressed air. But it would take a lot of stages (perhaps several dozen, each stage an exponential factor larger than the one before it).

Instead, the issue seems to be that the rocket launches satellites into a high inclination orbit (an orbit which is always in the Sun much like the International Space Station) which takes considerable energy to reach and that it uses low ISP engines to do so (aside from one stage which uses hydrazine/nitrogen tetraoxide. My guess is that the rocket has a very high dry mass (no propellant) too.

Re:no less then 4 stages for leo?

[MrFlibbs]

The International Space Station is not "always in the Sun". With an inclination of 51.63 degrees, the ISS enters the Earth's shadow on every orbit. Perhaps you were thinking of a sun-synchronous orbit? It's possible for such an orbit to be continuously in sunlight if the orbital parameters are chosen for this purpose. The ISS orbit is nothing like this.

The parent's claim that more stages is more efficient is correct. A single stage rocket has to carry the entire mass of the booster all the way to orbit. Stages allow you to leave some of this mass behind by ditching the depleted stages as you go. Less mass reaches orbit and hence less energy is expended. More stages means more efficient.

Adding more stages does add more complexity and can potentially decrease the reliability. However, the energy and cost savings are well worth it. Without staging, you'd need a much larger booster.

Re:no less then 4 stages for leo?

[khallow]

Yes, I was think sun-synchronous orbit. The Indian launch vehicle was designed to launch satellites into that particular orbit according to Wikipedia, the gold standard for reliability on the internet.

The parent's claim that more stages is more efficient is correct. A single stage rocket has to carry the entire mass of the booster all the way to orbit. Stages allow you to leave some of this mass behind by ditching the depleted stages as you go. Less mass reaches orbit and hence less energy is expended. More stages means more efficient.

Eh, for one person's somewhat skewed definition of "efficient". For a crucial example, you can't run a highly reusable launch vehicle that way, for example, since some of the stages would reenter Earth's atmosphere. I think you dismiss too lightly the additional points of failure that staging provides. Each additional stage is another engine that might fail (or worse) when its turn comes. Finally, an inefficient propulsion system requires more staging. If you look at the most efficient rocket engines out there, they generally use fewer stages (see Delta IV and Atlas V).

Slashdot editors!

[Anonymous Coward]

How hard is it to come up with a non-sensationalist non-deceptive title?

Blast as in London bomb blast or Blast as in blast furnace?

Re:Slashdot editors!

[Farmer Tim]

Blast as in London bomb blast or Blast as in blast furnace?

Blast as in "blast off", something Buck Rogers was doing in rockets back in the 1930's.

Sensationalism and deception, or an AC's ignorance...?

Re:Slashdot editors!

[smoker2]

I tell you what, you stand under the launch pad and then decide whether a rocket blasts off or lifts off.

Ah crap!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just the first step towards putting Indian call-center personnel on the moon.

You know what this means

[HangingChad]

We can outsource NASA!

My impression is they've become arrogant and bloated over the years. A little low-cost competition shouldn't hurt them too bad.

Re:You know what this means

[Bhavesh]

Probably one day ISRO will need to outsource to NASA! haha

Re:You know what this means

[savorymedia]

Yeah...but do you think our astronauts can deal with freeze-dried curry? /me ducks and runs ;)

Re:You know what this means

[soft_guy]

Couldn't we just close NA$A?

Blasts into space?? yet again?

[red crab]

The heading is a bit puerile. I thought that yet one after Indian spacecraft crashed after takeoff.

Indians in Space?

[Ten24]

Talk about a whole new meaning to the term Outsourcing!

to be noted...

[TheCybernator]

the PSLV is quite different from GSLV. If am not wrong, the PSLV is powered by Cryogenic Engine developed ingeniously after Russia declined the technology transfer.

Re:to be noted...

[Anonymous Coward]

the PSLV is powered by Cryogenic Engine developed ingeniously after Russia declined the technology transfer

Well, it would be, wouldn't it? It's not as if rocket science is easy, is it?

Re:to be noted...

[metalcup]

not true actually..the PSLV is powered by a NOX/solid fuel combination ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Satellite_Launc h_Vehicle) while the GSLV is powered by the cryogenic engine.

Even more OT

[Flying pig]

Your sig!

Yes. My father was in at least one of the battles of Cable Street (there were several). An amazing number of Londoners of that generation go a bit misty eyed over their days throwing bricks at Fasicsts. We seem to have lost the art of political protest in this country.

Re: Even more OT

[TommyMc]

Yeah, I can't claim to have any tie to the event(s) bar enjoying reading about it and, as a Londoner, taking some pride in the spirit of multi-culturalism within it.

Surprisingly, one of the nicest dedications I've seen to it was in a Terry Pratchett book (one of the ones with the Ankh-Morpork "Watch" (police)) in which he, very eloquently, describes a similar event which happens in Ankh-Morpork (an allegory for London), and then about the understated, inclusive approach to patriotism inherent within such an event, which seems to have so much more dignity than the ridiculous flag-waving of the middle-classes every time a sports event rolls round in modern Britain.

Anyway, it's worth a read, if you're interested (can't remember which one it is of the top of my head, but the whole Diskworld series is pretty fun as a sort of not-too-taxing "comfort" read, and the blurb will tell you which specific one i'm talking about..), but I'm even further off-topic now. To paraphrase JD Salinger, things tend to get a lot more interesting when you get off-topic though.

Mods, do your worst..

Editors too old, or are you too young?

[Overzeetop]

Back in my day, "blast off" was what they said right after "1" in the countdown. I suppose all you knee biters who only know the politically correct versions think that "lift off" sounds soo much more genteel.

Get the hell of my lawn.

Indian Prowess

[calvinandhobbes]

This just goes to prove the technical prowess Indians and India has. Of course there will be a backlash from the usual suspects about how India can afford to send rockets and blah! Atomic Energy, Space, Computer Software, Pharmaceuticals, Textiles, BioTech are just some of the fields in which Indians dare i say are amongst the Top 5. Sooner than later, the world will have to live with the fact the Indians and Chinese are going command respect and will no longer be looked down upon.

Re:Indian Prowess

[eagl]

The thing is, the people who matter already respect India. The aviation and space industry has looked at India as an up-and-coming power for quite a while now. Yea they're not quite at the truly "graduate level" stuff yet like the US and Russia, but they're working hard at developing their own capabilities and that's what matters.

Plus they're not sitting on their butts whining about how nobody respects them or threatening to kill everyone who doesn't go to their church. That helps a lot.

Re:Indian Prowess

[bertramwooster]

I won't disagree with most of what you said. But India is like most religiously diverse countries and you do have sections of the populace who can and are easily tempted to kill another section. I wish it weren't true, but it is. Though, in comparison to the US, India is much, much more diverse.

Re:Indian Prowess

[aalobode]

The thing is, the people who matter already respect India. The aviation and space industry has looked at India as an up-and-coming power for quite a while now. Yea they're not quite at the truly "graduate level" stuff yet like the US and Russia, but they're working hard at developing their own capabilities and that's what matters.

Nice point. Just to add a couple of items to your statement: a large number of NASA employees are Indians, several of whom are in tech. leadership positions. Check out the attached link to get an idea of what the Indians are capable of. Actually, nearly 40% of US Physicians, 30% of MS employees, and approximately a third of all NASA employees are Indians. And there are plenty more where they came from. It's painful to read comments (by others on /.) about curry and outsourcing whenever you discuss tech. advances by Indians. Indians have developed an advanced Jet trainer for a fraction of the cost it would incur in this country. They are not to be confused with Gunga Din. Now here's the link: http://littleindia.com/february2004/HereThere.htm

Where the money is...

[Savage-Rabbit]

I'm not sure about Russia anymore but at least the US has stated that they want to go back to the moon and put some dude up in Mars sometime on this half of the century if memory serves. Russia is and will remain competitive where it really counts (at the moment at least) which is the business of getting big loads into orbit as cheaply and reliably as possible. That's where the money is at the moment. Just because Russia can't afford to indulge in high profile prestige projects doesn't mean they aren't advancing their space program. Doing well with cargo rockets may not be glamorous but it is valuable work. The Mir space station for example was less glamorous than the American Moon missions but the research work done on Mir concerning for example the effects that spending long periods of time in weightlessness has on the human body was no less valuable. In the long term Russia will probably benefit more from pouring the majority of it's resources into it's commercial cargo-rocket operations than India, China and the USA will benefit from diverting their space program resources into sending more manned missions to the moon or being the first to have one of their citizens leave a footprint on the surface of Mars.

A great example for the world

[eagl]

This is such a great example of what is going RIGHT with the world.

Political decisions led the US to cut off certain space tech transfers to India, and instead of whining about it and complaining that the US was keeping them down, India developed their own space program, filling in the gaps of their technological capabilities as required. They worked hard and made it happen without relying on handouts or whining about how tough their life was.

Now the political realities have changed, but instead of India once again relying on US, UK, or Russian technology, they can compete and relate with the other space powers on a much more equal basis. They have their own capability, they don't owe anyone for it, and they have their national pride instead of being a nation of victims whining about how the US isn't giving them enough candy.

WTG India, the aerospace technology success story of the century. Way to be a winner, not a whiner. As an American sick and tired of every little country bitching about how the US doesn't give them enough money/respect/tech/whatever, I wish more countries would do this, even though it would result in the US ultimately having less influence in the world.

Re:A great example for the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, except that the space program of India was quite closely connected to the development of nuclear-tipped ICBMs, a slightly less noble endeavour.

Re:A great example for the world

[SpooForBrains]

"I wish more countries would do this, even though it would result in the US ultimately having less influence in the world"

"even though"? I think the less influence the US has over the world the better off we'll all be. That goes for the UK, by the way, IMO.

Re:A great example for the world

[wall0159]

As an American sick and tired of every little country bitching about how the US doesn't give them enough money/respect/tech/whatever

Care to give some examples of countries whining about unjust treatment?

Re:A great example for the world

[vihung]

Not quite.

As I understand it, ISRO was formed in the 60s to develop space technology for weather monitoring and communications.

Also, as I understand it, India had publicly avowed to only use atomic and nuclear technology for scientific and power generation purposes until the BJP Government in the late 1990s (there are, however, rumours that research into nuclear weapons and delivery systems has been going on since the 80s).

English doesn't have grammar, really

[Flying pig]

What I learned in linguistics, long ago, was that English is not a formally designed language with a formal grammar. It's a bastard child of Latin, Gothic, and a few others in there. It doesn't actually have a "pronoun grammar", it has a mix of systems from different languages, in varying stages of decay.

This was the poinjt I was trying to mention in what I wrongly thought was an attempt at humour.

Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle = ICBM

[Anonymous Coward]

Watch out for these guys.

Another Former British Colony

[aquatone282]

. . . enters the space age.

Say what you will about empire, but the Brits have left a lasting legacy of freedom and progress for mankind.

Now if they could only learn how to make a decent cup of coffee.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Anonymous Coward]

Well yes, thank God for British Imperialism!

Incidentally, what other "former British colony" has achieved anywhere near the success that India has? Pakistan - nope. Nigeria - nope. Kenya - nope. Malaysia - nope. Notwithstanding 100% white and British dominated colonies like Canada, the US, and Australia, no other nation has come close.

India's success has little to do with Britain, and more to do with blood, sweat and hard-work (as a previous poster mentioned).

Sadly, Britian remains a second-tier power and falling farther back each decade, and left (much like the Roman, Greeks and Egyptians) looking backwards at their infamous history rather than their future.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Marcus Green]

Yes the UK struggles along with the worlds 6th largest GDP, it's hell here in the second tier.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly it is fun in the second-tier:

"British emigration reaches a high"

More British people emigrated in 2003 than at any other time since the 1979s, according to official figures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3982217.stm.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[aquatone282]

ncidentally, what other "former British colony" has achieved anywhere near the success that India has? Pakistan - nope. Nigeria - nope. Kenya - nope. Malaysia - nope. Notwithstanding 100% white and British dominated colonies like Canada, the US, and Australia, no other nation has come close.

Yet I think we can agree the Raj left behind the framework of ideas and institutions that allowed India to use its blood, sweat, and hard-work to transform itself into a peaceful democracy.

Britain's imperial legacy has done more to move the world forward in the past 400 hundred years than anything else. The fact the British Empire is no more does not diminish this fact.

Here's to Britannia - she can't make a decent cup of coffee but she gave us the free modern western world.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[revolutionary404]

Nothing against Britannia, but I am not happy with the modern world and I am sure many would concur with me on this.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[aquatone282]

Nothing against Britannia, but I am not happy with the modern world and I am sure many would concur with me on this.

Good - you shouldn't be. There's always room for improvement. What are you doing to improve Mankind's lot?

The world of today is a much better place to live than the world of 400, 100, or even 10 years ago. I don't know how old you are, but in my 44 years I've seen a considerable amount of progress in all areas of human endeavor. It's the optimists who moved us forward, and it's the optimists that will keep us moving forward.

Are you an optimist? I am.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Duryo]

An optimist also is realistic about the past and its failure. So while Britain did indeed leave a legacy that has made the modern world and its prosperity possible, it also entrenched power, disenfranchised entire populations, and also left behind the an equal number of institutions that pose such enormous challenges to the world now (unequal trade relationship between North/South, Israel and Palestine to name a few). Britain and its imperialist past should not be remembered with fondness and should definitely not be the model for the new world order. It should be based on fairness and equality at its core -- neither of which were at the core of Britannia.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Earlier empires had a distinction as opposed to the british empire; they went after countries with roughly equivalent military technology. The british on the other hand being the only major island nation in Europe, had access to all of the jolly high tech weaponary of Europe, and a fleet to go out and deliver the sharp end of that technology to spear wielding cultures throughout the world. When it came to a toe to toe battle against an equivalent enemy, the Germans or Japanese, the british got their arses roundly handed to them. It took the overwhelming force of the USA and Russia to defeat Germany and Japan.

Sooo, gatling guns versus spear slingers. Thats something to be proud of. And its worth noting that the "empire" (snigger) collapsed as soon as the aforementioned spear slingers figured out which was the business end of the aforementioned gatling guns.

Oh and as for moving the world forward, its amazing how far ahead these other cultures move without incompetent british overseers bungling up the works, India being a case in point, Ireland another. Quite a lot of Africa and indeed the current shambles in Iraq can be laid squarely at the feet of the brits too.

And hey, I love what you've done with your food.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[aquatone282]

I have a Scots mother, lived in England for six years, and was married to a girl from Finglas for nine years.

The only place I tasted worse food than England was Ireland.

But I guess that's why you invented Guiness - to wash the horrible taste of boiled cabbage and potatos from your mouths.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[supermank17]

Heh, you have a pretty distorted view of history. There are so many things wrong with your post I don't know where to start. First off, your mention of the Japanese and Germans beating up on Britain. I can only assume you're referring to World War 2, and it might be noted that the British Empire was no longer in existence at that point. To say that the British got the "arses roundly handed to them" when they faced an equivalent enemy is foolish. Read up on the events prior to world war 2, and you might realize this. Trafalgar might be a good starting point. They went toe to toe with the French and Spanish for an awful long time. (And the French were no pushovers either... They were THE land power for a long time). You also might want to do some checking up on the statement about the British being the only nation with high tech of Europe and a fleet to go with. Reference the Spanish, or the French, or any of the other various nations that colonized the Americas. Your statement that previous empires went after countries with equivalent tech levels is also foolish; many of the empires came about precisely because the country had superior technology. If not that, they often had superior population or resources. If you think it was a fair fight with the Romans vs. the Gauls, you don't know much at all. In short, you're an idiot. I would suggest you inform yourself a little bit before going off next time. A good place to start is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_empire or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empire.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

I have a Scots mother, lived in England for six years, and was married to a girl from Finglas for nine years.

Who cares?

The only place I tasted worse food than England was Ireland.

Who cares?

But I guess that's why you invented Guiness - to wash the horrible taste of boiled cabbage and potatos from your mouths.

Is there a point to any of this at all, or are you just going to rattle on about your culinary experiences after apparently marrying the worst cook in Ireland?

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Heh, you have a pretty distorted view of history.

Somewhat less so than yours.

To say that the British got the "arses roundly handed to them" when they faced an equivalent enemy is foolish.

Oh okay, so the fact that the greatest military achievement of the british in WW2 was to successfully evacuate their army would be a falsehood?

They went toe to toe with the French and Spanish for an awful long time. (And the French were no pushovers either... They were THE land power for a long time).

Which is why britain conquered France and all of France now enjoys a good spotted dick with their rum, sodomy and the lash... splendid.

Reference the Spanish, or the French, or any of the other various nations that colonized the Americas.

I didn't say any of them were free from blame, either.

Your statement that previous empires went after countries with equivalent tech levels is also foolish; many of the empires came about precisely because the country had superior technology.

Ah here you are confusing superior methodologies and tactics with superior technology. Lets face it, any inbred bucktooth with a gatling gun can mow down a few hundred african spearmen, and often did. If you can't tell the difference between two men with swords, and one man with a machinegun and another man with a spear, theres not much I can say to you.

In short, you're an idiot.

Snigger.

Edmund: Well, you see, George, I did like it, back in the old days when the prerequisite of a British campaign was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns -- even spears made us think twice. he kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass.

George: Now, come off it, sir -- what about M'boto Gorge, for heaven's sake?

Edmund: Yes, that was a bit of a nasty one -- ten thousand D'watushi warriors armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and guava halves. After the battle, instead of taking prisoners, we simply made a huge fruit salad. No, when I joined up, I never imagined anything as awful as this war. I'd had fifteen years of military experience, perfecting the art of ordering a pink gin and saying "Do you do it doggy-doggy?" in Swahili, and then suddenly four-and-a-half million heavily armed Germans hove into view. That was a shock, I can tell you.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[pryonic]

All I can say to you after reading this and your replies to the other poster is that you seem to be a horribly bitter person. Lighten up a bit, you might start enjoying life more.

Oh and yes, I am English. I'm not proud of an accident of birth, and we have done a lot of terrible things in the past, as well as a lot of good. As you're Irish I could blame you for the death and destruction the IRA caused, except of course I know that it isn't your fault. Just as the terrible things done in Britain's name 200 years ago isn't the fault of modern Britons.

Grow up and chill out you old bitter nut.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah fact that british cut off indian artisans hands, prevented it from trading with any other country other than east india company of britain,plundering treasures of the mughals and 200 other indian kingdoms forcing them to pay the english blood money for not invading their kingdoms,not giving a shit about ppl thus killing millions of Indians during the great bengal famine(it was a british made famine), reducing Indian economy one of the largest and richest of 17 th century and one which controlled 28 percent of world trade to utter shambles(british owe Indian 3 trillion pounds!)causing ethnic and religious strife b/w hindus and muslims by their vicious divide and rule policy,practising most disgusting and extreme forms of racism towards indians.british called India their golden bird and looted and destroyed it.British would have even lost the second world war if not for the million indian soldiers who fought for saving its ass from the germans(indians send troops to britain cos the british promised india independence in exachange for the help).Who can forget the famous british dictum on Indians tht they should not produce salt(which mahatma gandhi opposed by the famous danadi or salt march).British just remember when you arrived in india you wre just greedy,hungry,uncivilized pauper traders who were so awed by its wealth and opulence of its cities that they turned barbarians and attacked and looted it.Now look at you British you are just an American poodle.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[revolutionary404]

How do you know the World was better 400 years ago? You are looking at the world through somebody else's perception. Even going by that perception, apart from advances in Science, tell me one thing that is better now than before. There is a saying, "an optimist sees color, a pessimist sees black & white, but a wise person sees nothing". I am not wise, nor optimist or pessimist, I am stating the facts.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[rsborg]

Yes the UK struggles along with the worlds 6th largest GDP, it's hell here in the second tier.

. Yeah, it sucks being behind California, eh?

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Oh and yes, I am English. I'm not proud of an accident of birth, and we have done a lot of terrible things in the past, as well as a lot of good.

You should be proud, the british have brought a fair bit of good to the world. However the british empire wasn't one of those things. My original post was not to shoot down the british generally, just the muppet reminiscing over "the good old days", and rule brittania. Personally, I don't find the slaughter of the mostly defenceless to be anything to celebrate unless you happen to have a swastika tattooed on your neck.

As you're Irish I could blame you for the death and destruction the IRA caused, except of course I know that it isn't your fault.

Ah yes, but no one voted for the IRA, house of lords notwithstanding. Also comparing a group of homegrown partisans with the mass export of high-tech butchery isn't exactly a good parallel. It wasn't the inherent superiority of the british way, or the stiff upper lip or any of that nonsense; it was the equivalent of interstellar aliens nuking some ewoks. Any semi-competent army in Europe at the time would have beaten the tar out of them.

Just as the terrible things done in Britain's name 200 years ago isn't the fault of modern Britons.

Well if they would stop proudly trumpeting about them, perhaps I will stop knocking them down.

Grow up and chill out you old bitter nut.

Right back atcha, limey. ;-p Seriously though, no harm to you or yours, I just object for the reasons I outlined above.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[The Cydonian]

Earlier empires had a distinction as opposed to the british empire; they went after countries with roughly equivalent military technology.

India, China, Middle East had free and prosperous trade for five thousand years before the Portuguese showed up in gunships and blockaded India's west coast.

The real story isn't just about weaponry, although you're right, it certainly played a huge part. The real story here is about the western powers using military power to move economic objectives, and that's something that Asia is still coming to terms with.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

India, China, Middle East had free and prosperous trade for five thousand years before the Portuguese showed up in gunships and blockaded India's west coast.

Wonderful to hear about how all of these major landmasses had free and prosperous trade for many years before the advent of the Sumerians, never mind the Egyptians.

The real story here is about the western powers using military power to move economic objectives, and that's something that Asia is still coming to terms with.

May I introduce you to Smedley Butler...

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Actually, my apologies, some rancid shitbird appear to have edited that entry. Long may they rot. Here is a fuller account...

Re:Another Former British Colony

[supermank17]

As I noted before, performance in World War II is hardly an indication of past performance. The British Empire was in existence long before WWII, and by the time WWII came about, the empire was effectively crumbling. The empire had its beginnings in the 15th and 16th centuries, nearly 5 centuries before World War II began. Also, to say that the evacuation was their biggest success is ignorant; they (and the commonwealth) were significant participants in all theaters. Also, the British did in fact at several points conquer significant portions of France. Read up on the Hundred Years War if you wish some background. You don't seem to realize that recent performance has no bearing on past performance. Finally, if you believe that it was just superior methodologies and tactics that paved the way for previous empires, because they were still "two men with swords", you are sorely mistaken. There is a world of difference between a bronze sword and an iron sword. And there is an incredible difference between a naked barbarian with a club or axe, and a fully armored soldier with tower shield, iron sword, and a vast array of siege technology behind him.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

The empire had its beginnings in the 15th and 16th centuries, nearly 5 centuries before World War II began.

Take a look at these maps, detailing the expansion of the british "empire" over time. Note the immense expansion in and after the 1850s. Gatling guns and howitzers can have that effect. Really what that shows is that the "empire" lasted a grand total of about 70 years. Geniuses.

Also, to say that the evacuation was their biggest success is ignorant; they (and the commonwealth) were significant participants in all theaters.

Yes, featuring such victories as "the Americans supplied us with war materiel", "we're getting bombed by the luftwaffe again", and my all time favourite "We can sit on our island cowering for as long as we need". Legend.

There is a world of difference between a bronze sword and an iron sword. And there is an incredible difference between a naked barbarian with a club or axe, and a fully armored soldier with tower shield, iron sword, and a vast array of siege technology behind him.

The bronze age was finished for hundreds of years before the foundation of the Roman Empire. If you're talking about Egypt, that was still bronze weapons versus bronze weapons. And still you persist with this delusion that the technology used by the Romans and the Gauls were substantially different. Learn the difference between technology and training, technique and organisation.

Or since you appear to be of the less intelligent persuasion, let me spell it out for you. Can you tell the difference between a 25mm cannon firing 8 rounds a second with a muzzle velocity of 500m/s, and a spear hurled by a tribesman?

You have been owned, you muppet. As was your ludicrous little "empire".

Re:Another Former British Colony

[supermank17]

~sigh~ I suppose I started the name calling, so I can hardly complain when you continue it :-).
First of all, world war 2. Yes, they got supplies from the US, and depended on them. They're an island nation, and hence don't have a whole lot of resources. That's a large part of why they founded the colonies. Even so, they did a fair amount before the US got involved. They did a pretty decent job down in North Africa. They outfought the Germans in the Battle of Britain. They still had a large naval presence which did a lot in the Mediterranean (unfortunately for them, they were late to the navy-air game, and hence took heavy losses against the Japanese). Later, they also provided large portions of the troops for Operation Torch, the allied invasion of Sicily, the invasion of Italy, and finally, the Normandy invasion. As for the bronze vs. iron, I was mostly referring to the Assyrians. They developed iron working very early on, and used it to build their empire. I think part of the problem is that you seem to be largely referring to the late british empire, where they concentrated heavily on asia/africa, whereas I was mostly referring to the earlier british empire, built around the americas and the colonies there. Your assertion that the British only fought those that had lower tech, whereas most other empires took on people with similar tech is where my main argument lies. Yes, they had superior technology to the people they conquered in the later years of the empire, often overwhelmingly so. That was not always the case. They did fight many of the other european nations, and especially in the water, were pretty successful. They won the Seven Years War (or as we would call it, the French and Indian war) and kicked the French out of the Americas.
Finally, I'm still uncertain why you seem to think the Gauls and Romans were at technological parity. Yes, the Romans had superior organization and tactics. But I seem to remember that they also had quite good siege technology, and superior armor to the Gauls. They certainly had better infrastructure, and the technology that allowed that was part of why they were so powerful. As to your comment about the gatling gun, yes, its obvious that gatling guns are superior to spears (I assume here that you're talking about the Anglo-Zulu war). I never disagreed. What I do disagree with, was that it was always that way. The British Empire has taken on more than just the Zulus.

Re:Another Former British Colony

[The Cydonian]

I included Egyptians and Sumerians when I said "Middle East". :-) The trade routes across the Arabian Sea are really old; I'm talking 2000-3000 BCE here.

Reason for 4 stages

[amightywind]

The US built LTV Scout used for stages, all solid motors. If you use lower Isp engines you tend to need more stages to loft the same payload.

Cue ...

[Anonymous Coward]

.. "OMG wouldn't this money be better spent on feeding the hungry billions" comments.

Sheesh.

Why this is a big deal?

[Creidiki]

This is news for the same reason Sputnik launch was news.
If you are able to reach orbit, you are able to reach ballistic trajectory. India is now a nuclear power, capable of hitting any target on earth.

Come on people!

[Timberwolf0122]

Why does everyone assume that every nation on Earth wants to start a nuclear war?

Maybe we should all sitdown and watch Wargames + When the Wind Blows and then ask ourselfs if anyone would want to use nuclear weapons in anger.
I for one would like to see India and China working alongside ESA and NASA establish future for humanity in orbit, on the moon and mars.

Re:Come on people!

[BigGerman]

Every nation on earth does not WANT to start nuclear war. Every nation on earth wants to be ABLE to start nuclear war. Nuclear deterrence is one of the very few basic things that are proven to work in the international relationships. If Saddam actually had operational nukes he would still be in power. That is why Iran wants them so badly and NK exploded the first thing they could. Just basic logic. Sometimes in the future we will actually cooperate, but for now, just respect your neighbour with a big stick.

Re:Come on people!

[Mark_MF-WN]

I'm not so sure about that. Every decade that goes by without a major war-related die-off, a society becomes more hateful and aggressive. Americans haven't had a good slaughter since world war 2, and even that one was pretty skimpy. The entire Vietnam war killed fewer people than car accidents in the continental US do in a single year. And look at them now. By contrast, look at the incredible reluctance to get involved in WW2 -- WW1 took all the fight out of the US. And look at how long it took after the civil war before Americans regained their taste for conquest.

The longer a nation goes without having to see the results of war up-close, the less they fear and oppose war. Conservatives start to fill peoples' heads with ideas about the glory of war and the honour of the soldier. Soon, people are comfortable with the idea of going to war again, and need very little to convince them that a war would be a wonderful idea. And so war recurs, again and again.

oblig

[Anonymous Coward]

10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...Thank you, come again.

Speaking of Indian Food

[Anonymous Coward]

Indian serial killer suspect admits sex with dead bodies

Jan 11 2:16 AM US/Eastern

A suspect in the gruesome murders of 17 people, mostly children, near the Indian capital has told investigators he had sex with the dead bodies and ate their organs, a report has said.

The Times of India said Surender Koli admitted to carrying out the crimes alone and that his employer, businessman Moninder Singh Pandher who has also been arrested and charged, was unaware of the killing spree.

The grisly revelations emerged after the two accused were subjected to "narco-analysis" -- including truth drugs, polygraph tests and brain mapping -- at a national forensic laboratory.

Results of the tests are not admissable as evidence in court, but are designed to help police with their investigation.

The two were arrested on December 29 from New Delhi's affluent Noida suburb after an overwhelming stench led to the discovery of carefully chopped-up body parts in a drain next to Pandher's home.

But Pandher was apparently unaware that his servant used sweets and chocolates to lure the victims to the house, before killing them and raping their bodies, the Times of India said.

Koli, who previously worked as a cook in a hotel, narrated how and when he killed his 17 victims with precision. He also remembered the names of 15 victims, the newspaper said, quoting unnamed investigators involved in the tests.

"Sahab (master) did not know," Koli was quoted as telling investigators, adding the murders were committed when Pandher was away.

Asked what he had done with the missing torsos of the victims, Koli disclosed that he ate some of the organs and cut up others and flushed them down the toilet. The dismembered parts were disposed of separately.

Koli said his first victim was a four-year-old girl. He admitted to trying eating the child's liver, but said he vomited immediately.

His co-accused, meanwhile, emerged from the tests as a womaniser who used Koli as a pimp to find him prostitutes.

Pandher's family says reports of the results of the narco-analysis test were a relief.

"I had always thought Surendra (Koli, the servant) was behind all this. My father used to be out of town for long periods on business," Pandher's 23-year-old son, Karan, told the newspaper.

Yes, but...

[inviolet]

...what color curry does it burn for fuel? Red I presume? I just had red curry chicken yesterday, and wow is that stuff hot.

Re:Yes, but...

[alienfluid]

Dude, Thailand and India are two different countries!

Oh no!

[MoronBob]

I guess this puts them one up on the Cowboys.

Space To India:

[blake3737]

Thank you come again!

Mod parent down

[missing000]

Racial stereotypes hurt everyone. Grow up.

Re:Mod parent down

[Anonymous Coward]

Grow a sense of humor asshole.

Now space smells like shit.

[RonaldReagan]

Where can I go for solace now?

Re:Now space smells like shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd have to agree with the parent. I had a couple of Indian families live on my apartment floor once. I'd come home to a stench that was unbearable. I'm not sure what they were cooking, but it smelled like they where burning a hairy turd.

Re:Re-entry capsule = ICBM - old joke

[middlemen]

There was this Indian joke:
Q. What do you call one Pakistani on the moon ?
A. Problem
Q. What do you call two Pakistanis on the moon ?
A. Problem
Q. What do you call all Pakistanis on the moon ?
A. Problem solved

That's not competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Any faults of NASA aside, they're not in the launch business, so the Indians aren't competing with them. Lockheed, Boeing, Orbital Sciences, and SpaceX (maybe, hopefully) are American payload launchers. The first two are already beat out on price for most launches by European, Russian, and Japanese rockets. Their biggest customers are probably NASA and DoD. Orbital Sciences does small payloads. SpaceX is poised to shake up the market by cutting launch costs in half or better, assuming they are successful. These guys are the ones competing against the Indians.

NASA's business is research and human spaceflight, and they're not designed to compete with anyone in that regards. It would be hard to since the information and technology they gain aren't easily marketable. That's why it's a government funded endeavor in the first place.

In fact, NASA is generally cooperative with other space agencies when there is no concern over technology being used for ill. They coordinate quite significantly with the ESA, for example, evening loaning out scientists and engineers from time to time. Cooperation with Russia has blossomed since the end of the cold war, held back as much by budget limitations as the still lingering wariness. India, on the other hand, as a young nuclear power occasionally at odds with our associates in Pakistan, is probably not high on the list of countries we're anxious to give space and rocket related technology to.

Novel Propellants

[Anonymous Coward]

"Powered almost entirely by curry and hot spices, spectators were left coughing, wheezing, and gorging on rice after the smoke plume drifted overhead."

Re:Novel Propellants

[Anonymous Coward]

6 pints of Toofan.

Russia

[Mark_MF-WN]

I've gotten the impression that Russia is focusing more on a commercial space program. The ESA is probably the biggest competitor to NASA right now, in terms of how likely they are to do something big and impressive. Not that NASA can't trump them, but it would require the American government to reduce the extent to which it engages in cronyism, earmarking, and all of the other things that make accomplishing anything of merit next-to-impossible. The ESA is comparitively lean and efficient and has so many nations' scientific and technical resources to draw upon that it can provide serious competition to the vastly better-funded NASA. But if the US Congress were to give NASA a free hand to manage themselves reasonably and to budget sanely, well ... the other space programs would probably be lining up just for a chance to participate in NASA's ventures.

Haven't they been doing this for years?

[vihung]

Haven't the Indians been launching satellites for years? Wasn't that why ISRO was formed in the 60s - for communications and weather sensing satellites as opposed to manned missions and weapons?

This particular form of rocket may be new, but everyone in the comments seems to think that the fact they they have a space program and that they have launched a satellite is new. Sourely that has been going on for years

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Handouts

[Mark_MF-WN]

Uh... handouts? No. Most countries are complaining about, you know, little things ... like the US firing rockets into their sovereign territory, the US violating trade deals that the US originally pushed for (spoiled bitches can't handle it when another country embraces capitalism and bests the US at it), the US describing their democratically elected leaders as despots while allowing massive amounts of electoral fraud in American elections, the use of the CIA to assassinate democratically elected leaders and replace reasons. Those nations are all supported by the US for purely selfish reasons. The handful that remain are supported because there is basically NOTHING the people there can do to better themselves right now. Americans just aren't sufficiently sociopathic to consistently refrain from aiding people that are in dire peril. A positive attitude and an independent spirit wont make droughts go away or reverse the effects of earthquakes. No amount of Ayn Randian thinking will protect you from malaria or the dozens of other parasites that keep people in equatorial zones too sick to accomplish anything of merit.

The main requirement to do a manned moon mission

[Anonymous Coward]

is to have a robust film industry, which India has.

Re:indigenously

[sanman2]

heh, I think he meant to say 'indigenously' (ie. locally) after the Russians backed out of their supply contract.

More! More!

[sanman2]

My understanding is that India was specifically looking for cryogenic technology, not unlike what the Space Shuttle uses, and that's no good for ICBM's since it takes a very long time to fuel up, and the fuel is hard to work with. Even though it has a better chance of getting you to the Moon, LOX/LH2 is overkill for what an ICBM needs anyway.

I think it's good to see a variety of nations and companies trying to get into space, because more players on the field increases the chance of scoring goals. It's a tragedy and a crime against scientific progress that nobody's gone back to the Moon in over 30 years, much less beyond it.

launch capability effective usage

[mjolnir_]

So this means my curry and vindaloo will arrive faster?

Man, hate to see how much I'll have to tip *that* guy.

unmanned

[Anonymous Coward]

India is planning an UNMANNED rocket to the moon, I am surprised this hasn't been corrected yet.

India FTW !

[tom_75]

Indians walking on the Moon ? Holy cow !