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"Series of Tubes" Metaphor Implemented

meisteg writes to tell us about Tubes: a beta application that uses a tube metaphor to enable users to share files over the Internet. The Windows-only app is free and the company hopes to make money on an enhanced version targeted at businesses. See this video for some details of how Tubes works. From the article: "[Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens] endured ridicule last year for his assertion that the Internet is 'a series of tubes.' But one Web startup hopes to bring that metaphor to life with a new service that makes it easy for people to share videos, songs, pictures and other big files."

266 comments

  1. well by User+956 · · Score: 5, Funny

    writes to tell us about Tubes: a beta application that uses a tube metaphor to enable users to share files over the Internet.

    Good. Because we all know that it's not a big truck.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:well by russ1337 · · Score: 1, Informative
      It may not be a truck, but it looks like they'll be shipping plenty of things to you.... let's just hope you know you're signing up for them...

      From their privacy page:

      Log Files

      Other Use of Information

      Adesso may share aggregated demographic information with its partners and advertisers.
      This aggregated information is not linked to any personal information that can identify any individual person. Adesso may use an outside shipping company to ship orders and uses a credit card processing company to bill users for goods and services. These companies have access to user information in order to perform their functions, but these companies are not authorized to use personal information for any other purposes.

      Adesso may partner with other parties to provide specific goods and services. When you sign up for such goods or services, Adesso will share names or other contact information that is necessary for the third party to provide these goods and services. Adesso does not authorize third party providers to use personally identifiable information except for the purpose related to these good or services.
    2. Re:well by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

      Wish it was. A truck full of movies would arrive in a lot less time than it takes to bit torrent a truck load...

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    3. Re:well by phritz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sooo ... you would prefer that they not tell Fedex your address when shipping something to you? Seriously, that's the most standard privacy clause you can find.

    4. Re:well by juanescalante · · Score: 1

      gotta love the slashdot moderation system

    5. Re:well by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Yeah but with all those bold-faced phrases and implied wrong-doing, it's fun to read!

    6. Re:well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good. Because we all know that it's not a big truck.

      My FTP client disagrees: http://panic.com/transmit/

  2. Already done with anything P2P-based by MukiMuki · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Doesn't Bittorrent do this already?

    1. Re:Already done with anything P2P-based by Skreems · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This could actually be useful... it's sort of combining BitTorrent and RSS. You subscribe to a content channel, and as people with publishing permissions add content, it updates on your local system. Also tracks changes to existing documents, so it could be good for collaboration, although any serious use would likely want a version control system that supports conflict merges. For the average non-techie, though, this could be pretty handy.

      It's a shame they're aiming for such a tech-illiterate user base, though... their site doesn't seem to mention whether they do BitTorrent-style bandwidth sharing to distribute content.

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    2. Re:Already done with anything P2P-based by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Funny
      Doesn't Bittorrent do this already?

      Yes, but it uses a series of waves. many small waves from other users combine to become a tsunami of information washing over you.

      This is an entirely different type of software. It uses a series of tubes coming from other users. The more tubes you have pointing to you, the more internets you can get at once!

    3. Re:Already done with anything P2P-based by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
      their site doesn't seem to mention whether they do BitTorrent-style bandwidth sharing to distribute content.
      I was wondering the same thing.

      From watching the beginning of their presentation, it seems like the owner of the tube has to upload to everyone, one at a time.

      Again, according to their presentation, when a member of the tube updates the share, the owner propogates this update out, one person at a time.

      If they really used such an inefficient system, well... maybe someone will implement the same idea, but with a trackerless bittorrent backend.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Already done with anything P2P-based by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      This could actually be useful... it's sort of combining BitTorrent and RSS.

      If you want to do that, why don't you just combine BitTorrent and RSS, then?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:Already done with anything P2P-based by Skreems · · Score: 1

      certainly a fair question. I could see it being handy to have it work out automagically as in the Tubes thing... not saying it's something I'm actually planning to use, though...

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    6. Re:Already done with anything P2P-based by dbIII · · Score: 1
      The more tubes you have pointing to you, the more internets you can get at once!

      Point that tube somewhere else - you're splashing my shoes.

    7. Re:Already done with anything P2P-based by m4gic · · Score: 1

      What you're looking for is Alliance. Similar idea as Tubes but a good implementation. A cross-platform, open source, decentralized f2f network with file swarming capability. http://sourceforge.net/projects/alliancep2p

  3. "The Windows-only app" by The+Real+Toad+King · · Score: 1

    So much for advertising a new application on /. when more than half the userbase can't use it.

    1. Re:"The Windows-only app" by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On the contrary, there is significant overlap between PC users and Slashdot's core audience of unimaginative squares and dweebs.

    2. Re:"The Windows-only app" by alshithead · · Score: 1

      Do you think that more than half of Slashdot users don't have a Windows box in addition to their main OS?

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    3. Re:"The Windows-only app" by Helios1182 · · Score: 1

      For more than half Windows is their main OS.

    4. Re:"The Windows-only app" by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      Speaking for myself, I've never owned a PC in my life, Windows or otherwise.

    5. Re:"The Windows-only app" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THANK YOU!

    6. Re:"The Windows-only app" by alshithead · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Speaking for myself, I've never owned a PC in my life, Windows or otherwise."

      Holy shit! You must be posting using your psychic abilities. I alway knew mutants were out there. Are you one of the X-Men? :)

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    7. Re:"The Windows-only app" by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      It's true, we Mac users are a special bunch. And yes, some even say it's genetic.

    8. Re:"The Windows-only app" by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Holy shit! You must be posting using your psychic abilities.

      That's an interesting euphemism for "Mom's computer."

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    9. Re:"The Windows-only app" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if by "Mom's computer" you mean "Gay Lover's powerbook."

    10. Re:"The Windows-only app" by maxume · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So is it a computing fruit or something like that? I can't believe you are actually being smug about vocabulary. Macs look just like PCs, act just like PCs, and dancing out on a limb here, I believe that they are in fact personal computers. That they are now Wintel compatible makes the argument even more miserable for you.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    11. Re:"The Windows-only app" by benplaut · · Score: 1

      Sure, but do you really think that they're going to use the least secure box on their network (assumed) for p2p?

    12. Re:"The Windows-only app" by alshithead · · Score: 1

      Ouch! I wasn't going there... Actually, Mom's computer is probably part of the problem!

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    13. Re:"The Windows-only app" by itlurksbeneath · · Score: 1

      Yep. And I'd imagine more than half of the Linux users know how to install and use Wine, too.

      --
      Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts.
    14. Re:"The Windows-only app" by fyoder · · Score: 1

      Windows is an app. It runs on desktop # 8 on my computer, as I've designated that desktop for vmware. It's handy for some things like checking web pages in IE.

      --
      Loose lips lose spit.
    15. Re:"The Windows-only app" by x1n933k · · Score: 1
      Correction: Mac's are not Windows compatible but they can attempt to run WinXP (only on the new Intel chips) and die shortly thereafter. Mac's don't look like most PCs either, they don't act like PCs (No bios, requires a technician who is specifically trained on Macs to service them) and he didn't mention they weren't PCs.

      I think the separation between Mac and PC you are ranting about has a history beyond /.

      He said they only appeal to Windows market: there are Linux boxes (especially with non-profit groups who recycle older PCs and give them to families who can afford all the bells and whistles of a new machine. A few other outsiders and people using Mac OS who have G5 G4 laptops and PCs surfing the net too.

      Is this company going to suffer greatly because of it? Maybe not. But it would have made more sense to talk about then what you mentioned. Maybe this neat little flash will help:

      http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

      Cheers!

      [J]

    16. Re:"The Windows-only app" by alshithead · · Score: 1

      Too cool! I've followed your posts for a long time (really, you have posted comments I can appreciate). So, what are 1 thru 7? Passwords and user ID's would be appreciated. :) :) :)

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    17. Re:"The Windows-only app" by Babillon · · Score: 1

      Horribly offtopic but just got a giggle out of this...

      they don't act like PCs (No bios, requires a technician who is specifically trained on Macs to service them)

      Tell that to Earthlink, where they maintain a group of Mac specialists (read: Tier2 Windows techs) for correcting connectivity problems with no scope of support.

    18. Re:"The Windows-only app" by maxume · · Score: 1

      Addressing 'weren't PCs':

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=217060&cid=176 23068

      As far as your condescending attitude(no really, it is), I have had a few drinks so I am (a little)reluctant to say this, but what the hell, fuck off.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    19. Re:"The Windows-only app" by x1n933k · · Score: 1
      Oh I see. Here's another useful video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9-z29BNnOo

      Please, get help.

      [J]

    20. Re:"The Windows-only app" by maxume · · Score: 1

      If you don't feel that your post was again condescending, please reconsider. If it was on purpose, good luck with that.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  4. Tube == VPN by jobst · · Score: 1

    doesnt VPN do this already?

    --
    to code or not to code, that is the question.
    1. Re:Tube == VPN by Pooua · · Score: 2, Informative

      VPN does not perform automatic synchronization. Tubes is supposed to do so.

      --
      Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
    2. Re:Tube == VPN by kmkz · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, VPN == Pipe. There's a big difference, you know

    3. Re:Tube == VPN by roboconnell · · Score: 1

      amazing how unix almost always has had a solution for such a long time: I think these tubes have "rsync" written all over them....

  5. I have started an OS project for this by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Funny

    Initially it will be a series of pringle tubes duct taped together and connected to users computers thru which they can share files.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:I have started an OS project for this by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Back in the 60s our local post office had a pneumatic tube inter-office mail, stick the capsule in and poof, it gets pushed to the destination.

      For the youngsters amongst us, this was featured on Lost recently.

      I have the impression from movies that at least in some large cities this was used to send packets and letters from one building to another in business districts in the 40s and 50s.

    2. Re:I have started an OS project for this by talljustin · · Score: 1

      sounds like a ghetto vacuum tube system.

    3. Re:I have started an OS project for this by comradeeroid · · Score: 1

      Pneumatic Tubes rock, tube-mail kicks e-mail by the sheer power of steampunk over cyberpunk.
      A system with Pringles Tubes like the parent suggests migth be troublesome, especially when overweight smoking geeks try to forward your package by puffing in their end of the tube.

      --
      If you see a rock violating the law of gravity, then the law is wrong, not the rock!
    4. Re:I have started an OS project for this by gungh0 · · Score: 0

      Can I have all the pringles ?

      --
      No, really !
  6. No thanks by solevita · · Score: 2, Funny
    No more emailing or uploading large files. Shared content is pushed to you automatically without you taking any action and everything shared is always available on everyone's computers, even when there isn't an Internet connection.

    I don't care who I've invited to do what, I really don't want my friends to be able to put stuff on my PC as they feel fit. Anyone that has ever shared a printer in a University house will know the feeling - it doesn't take long until a hundred pages of "you're gay" wake you up in the middle of the night.
    1. Re:No thanks by mastershake_phd · · Score: 1

      it doesn't take long until a hundred pages of "you're gay" wake you up in the middle of the night.

      Speaking from experience?

    2. Re:No thanks by alexandreracine · · Score: 0

      They can be in read only, read the article :)

      --
      No sig for now.
    3. Re:No thanks by Falladir · · Score: 1

      With full knowledge of the potential for abuse, I've had "auto-accept" enabled in my IM client for several years. It's a huge time-saver. With auto-accept: falladir: send me that song you were talking about friend: ok --popup: accept file transfer?-- --click yes-- --wait for download-- Without: same thing but with two of the steps gone. What if I leave the computer? What if I tab into starcraft? I'm sorry that your printer got abused. Sure, this tubes thing is not a big improvement on existing technology, but it's going to be more convenient than aim transfers, ftps, and shared network folders.

  7. well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OK so let's hear your explaination. And NO geekspeak.

    1. Re:well-Planespeak. by monoqlith · · Score: 1

      I find it easier to make people understand using slightly simplified explanations which use esoteric terms, instead of trying to "bring it down to their level." People don't like to be coddled like that. If you start saying, "The internet is like a series of tubes, not like a dumptruck." you run the risk of people feeling like you're being a condescending prick. "I'm not 12." That's what sounded so off about the Stevens explanation to most people who had even a passing familiarity with the Internet.

        People are good at picking out the definitions of words from context. We had to learn English without knowing any other language, didn't we? What makes us so frightened of "hard-sounding" words? We have a native facility for that, so it doesn't hurt to use terms in your lay explanations.

    2. Re:well-Planespeak. by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      Did you also explain that her Dell laptop could, in fact, be a server if she so chose?

    3. Re:well-Planespeak. by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      the problem is if you are trying to make laws about something you have to have more then a laymans understanding of it in order to make the right decisions. making laws and regulations about something which you have little to no understanding about is a recipe for disaster.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    4. Re:well-Planespeak. by dangitman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      After trying to explain how it was different than her Dell laptop, I finally sent her a picture off google images of a big server rack and she finally got it.

      But what did she "get" by looking at the picture? Did she actually understand the server conceptually? Or did it further add to mystery, just with an added mental picture of racks of intimidating equipment?

      After all, her Dell laptop could easily perform as a server. And a rack-mount machine can easily function as a workstation. The type of enclosure does not determine the function.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    5. Re:well-Planespeak. by B3ryllium · · Score: 5, Funny

      There are two kinds of servers, Dump Truck Servers and Wheelbarrow Servers. Her laptop could be a wheelbarrow server (or two or three), but not a Dump Truck Server ...

    6. Re:well-Planespeak. by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      I generally use mail as a metaphor for packets, but I suppose it works as a metaphor for the whole process.

      A message is addressed and sent to somebody, who opens it up and reads it, then reacts to whatever it says--possibly by writing their own letter and sending it to the original person. The difference being, of course, that the messages are sent over a wire at extremely fast speeds rather than put into a post office box. You could probably extend the analogy to include "mail sorting machines" along the way for routers/switches, but it might be more than they need (or want) to know.

      Since I'm sure people understand the mail system at least at a high level, they should understand the metaphor. If they want to know in more detail than that, chances are you should abandon metaphors entirely and just explain the process for real.

    7. Re:well-Planespeak. by Amani576 · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure he understands that...
      But, explaining something like a server (which can be complicated as it is) to someone who pretty much only knows how to say, play music, games, browse the internet and cut her computer on and off... something like a picture of a big rack mounted server may be a very good image metaphor for the average person who doesn't want or care too much about how a computer works, they just want it to work... that a server is complicated... but it's what makes the internet the internet...
      GR

      --
      "Paranoia is the flaw and gift of man. Heed its advice, but do not live by its will."
    8. Re:well-Planespeak. by aussie_a · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There are special computers that have pages, like from a book. Those special computers have something that lets you go to them, like each telephone has a unique number, but it more resembles words. Like woolworths.com is the "phone number" for the special computer with Woolworths pages on it. You type in the "phone number" into a special program, and it sends the "phone number" over the telephone line and like a telephone number, it knows where to go. It goes to the right computer, gets the page and sends it back to your computer over the telephone line. Your special program then displays the information. You can click on certain words and that will get other pages from the woolworths.com computer.

      Much less misleading then "the internet is a series of tubes" and easy to understand.

    9. Re:well-Planespeak. by christurkel · · Score: 1

      Tell them internet is a giant cup of soda, you the kind you get a mini marts and such. Broadband is one of those jumbo straws and dial up is one of the coffee stiirer dealies.

      --

      CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
    10. Re:well-Planespeak. by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here goes nothing. Stevens got it ass backwards. The internet IS more like a truck... or really a bunch of them. It's not like a tube. A tube is a continuous flow. A roadway is a bunch of independent bits of flow all moving in different directions, much like the internet.

      The internet is a lot like an information superhighway... or more accurately, a highly interconnected network of roads and bridges that span the globe. Some roads are toll roads where people can pay to get somewhere faster just like you pay for a faster connection to the internet. There's nothing wrong with that. Some roads have fast speed limits, some have slower speed limits, and that all factors into how fast the truck gets to its destination. The internet works the same way. Those trucks are called packets, and the roads are called many names---pipes, trunk lines, and so on---but you can easily think of them as being like roadways.

      One big difference is that in the internet, you can pay money to your home state for the right to drive in the HOV lane or on other fast roads. People who want to get there faster can do so. Every state cooperates to allow drivers from other states to use those fast lanes because they know that those drivers are bringing things that people from their states have ordered. In effect, those trucks are driving at the request of the local residents. This generally works well; it's a lot like a nationwide, flat-rate version of FasTrak.

      However, some companies don't like the status quo. The non-neutral net that they propose can best be compared to Arkansas deciding that they are going to turn some of their faster roads into "special" toll roads. On those roads, they will charge $1 for trucks from Arkansas, but charge $100 for an identical truck from California. Why? Because California provides more trucks. If the truck from California doesn't pay that increased fee, they have take the slower, non-toll road. The people who ultimately are harmed, though, are the local residents who must ultimately bear the cost, either through paying those trucking companies more so that they can pay their state more or through having to wait longer to get their packages.

      Network neutrality laws are designed to make sure that the Arkansas states on the internet can't play those sorts of games. Ultimately, without network neutrality, the consumer loses.

      How's that?

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    11. Re:well-Planespeak. by 49152 · · Score: 1

      Which perfectly explains the sorry state our world is in...

    12. Re:well-Planespeak. by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      ...making laws and regulations about something which you have little to no understanding about is a recipe for disaster.

      Or huge profits for you and your accomplices. Some of these laws come about for different reasons than you think. Most are simply there to generate revenue. One method is to make lots of rules and then build huge bureaucracies, which you can then fill up with your friends and relatives, around them. Some laws make absolutely no sense to us, but when you look at the results, specifically how the money flows, you think, ah, so that's what's for. In the case of the internet, most of the regulations are designed to protect the publishing industry, but they provide the appearance of trying to eliminate an imaginary boogey man. I have to admit, it's pretty slick. The Americans are the absolute best at this, due to that pesky constitution they have to deal with. Masters of disguises, they are. A more efficient propaganda machine you will never see.

      --
      What?
    13. Re:well-Planespeak. by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      A message is addressed and sent to somebody, who opens it up and reads it, then reacts to whatever it says--possibly by writing their own letter and sending it to the original person. The difference being, of course, that the messages are sent over a wire at extremely fast speeds rather than put into a post office box. You could probably extend the analogy to include "mail sorting machines" along the way for routers/switches, but it might be more than they need (or want) to know.

      One problem with that metaphor is that email - the thing most people want explained - functions rather differently than snail mail, from the point of view of the user. Their mail comes from whoever the hell sent it to their ISP ("post office"). What happens then? Well, the mailman doesn't deliver it, at least until I call the lazy bastard and tell him to come give me my mail (POP) or read me my mail and save it for me (IMAP).

    14. Re:well-Planespeak. by draxbear · · Score: 1

      I liked it! Shame I don't have mod points for ya sorry.

      --
      --- I've completed diagnosis of your problem and can classify it as a YOYO...You're On Your Own
    15. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much less misleading then "the internet is a series of tubes" and easy to understand.

      Except that, while you've described the servers and client systems, you've said basically nothing about the network that connects them. Your concept of a telephone number just knowing where to go is somewhat misleading, and you've otherwise made the means of transporting "pages" a blackbox... which is what the tubes metaphor was, in it's own precious way, trying to explain.

    16. Re:well-Planespeak. by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Explaining the difference between a client and a server is easy: the client is the thing that "asks" for stuff, and the server is the thing that fulfills the requests. It's not as if we geeks picked these words out of thin air, you know -- they were picked for their conceptual similarity to stuff in the real world. In other words, a computer "server" and a restaurant "server" (i.e., a waiter) do the same thing: ask for a glass of water, the server gets you a glass of water; ask for a web page, the server sends you a web page. How much more bleedingly obvious could it be?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    17. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Gasp*

      You mean you don't think the average person will understand the clear and formal definition of "A network of networks" ? ?

      Shocking, truly.

    18. Re:well-Planespeak. by sshore · · Score: 1
      There are special computers that have pages, like from a book. Those special computers have something that lets you go to them, like each telephone has a unique number, but it more resembles words.


      That's how far I got into your explanation before my eyes glazed over.

      "Tubes" was a perfectly good metaphor for the layman - you put data in one end, some magic happens, and it goes to the right place. This metaphor also implies the limited capacity of the connection, unlike your description. The senator was referring to this limited capacity, not giving a tutorial on how the internet works.
    19. Re:well-Planespeak. by BakaHoushi · · Score: 1

      Definitely the best analogy I've ever seen to explain the Interwebs. And you even one up Mr. "Bridge to Nowhere" by essentially reversing HIS analogy. Bravo.

    20. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I prefer a restraunt industry metaphor since everyone eats and has most likely been to a restraunt once. You are the clientel of the restraunt (the internet) and you ask your server (i.e. google.com) for food (data), you then wait all night and ask to speak to the manager (ISP's tech support) give up in fustration and go home (logoff).

    21. Re:well-Planespeak. by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Having (for the first time) just read the "series of tubes" quote on Wikipedia, it doesn't seem so bad to me. The only glaring error is having been "sent an internet" (rather than e-mail) but this could just be a slip of the tongue - I take it this was off-the-cuff, not a scripted speach.

      "Pipes" would have been a better word than "tubes" (stuff flows along pipes, but not necessarily along tubes) and I feel roads would be a better metaphor, but "tubes" isn't a bad one.

      I confess I don't understand what incorrect interpretation of the internet he was trying to dispell with "not a big truck". That stuff arrives a bit at a time, rather than in one indivisible lump?

      Perhaps there is other evidence beyond this showing that the senator is technologically clueless?

      --
      Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    22. Re:well-Planespeak. by BakaHoushi · · Score: 1

      Maybe the server could talk like a waiter, too?
      "Good evening, clients. I'm ISO-9000, and I'll be your server for this evening. If you need any web pages tonight, just ask, and here is your menu of exotic pornography we have as specials tonight, oh, and here are some GameFAQs.com forum accounts for the kids."

    23. Re:well-Planespeak. by swv3752 · · Score: 1

      Email is like a PO Box. You can either go get your mail (Pop3) or hire a document archival company to store and send you a copy(imap).

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    24. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like AOL.

    25. Re:well-Planespeak. by FLEB · · Score: 1

      I agree that he did hit on a correct idea with "series of tubes", but in context with the rest of his speech, it's clear that the proper explanation was due more to coincidence than any sort of insight into the workings of the Internet. This rather-true statement was sandwiched on one side by "The Internet is not a truck, you can't just dump things on it." and on the other by "My staff tried to send me an Internet, and the enormous amounts of material clogged the tubes, making it so I got it [how ever-- I don't recall] late" (obviously paraphrased).

      It is clear that he is master of neither POP, IMAP, nor analogies, and that he knows far too little to actually be speaking out on the subject. Oddly enough, though, like you mentioned, the statement coming closest to the actual truth (the Internet, and computer constructs in general, being filled with conceptual "pipes" and "sockets") was the one that became the defining phrase.

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    26. Re:well-Planespeak. by kruhft · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think he meant 'tubes' like the old fashioned air driven tube messaging systems like they used to have in offices and factories (and I think I saw one in Costco a while back for the cashiers to transfer cash to the back of the store). This makes the most sense to me, since the system was essentially email-like, and would be the closest thing that someone with limited technical knowledge talking to an older crowd could analogize to.

    27. Re:well-Planespeak. by Bodrius · · Score: 2, Informative

      I believe you need to listen to the speech to understand the full effect.

      There is one main thing that made this a particularly awful speech:

      Mr. Stevens was trying to 'educate' his fellow Senators, assuming the condescending tone of a self-appointed 'expert' in the subject.

      He was not trying to explain it in the sense of 'this is sort of how I understand it, as a simile', but more like 'you kids don't understand this interweb thing, and I do, so I'm going to extemporate here until you get it'.
      This makes silly gaffes like 'my staff sent an internet through the tubes', and his wild guess as to his delay 'receiving his Internets', positively painful to hear.

      Also, whether by tone of voice, timing, or phraseology, his metaphorical description didn't just seem that metaphorical. It sounded like he took it almost literally, at least to my ears... and I suspect a lot of people have had enough experience with some computer-illiterate person (cd trays as cup-holders, wireless devices never plugged in, etc) that the picture just completes itself.

      I doubt Mr. Stevens believes the interwebs are made of tubes, but I got the impression he was shortly briefed on the subject by his staff, and he took a metaphor he didn't completely understand and ran away with it.
      Considering his role in the Senate and in this particular issue, that is very worrying...

      In essence, like Dan Quayle's issues with the word 'potato', this is a particularly bad delivery that became a problem because it symbolizes the character so well.

      Another good comparison may be Al Gore's "I invented the Internet"... everyone knows he didn't really claim that. But the phrase was indelibly attached to him because it was so easy to picture him saying that, even if it was not true. It was a concise symbol of some parodiable elements of his character.

      --
      Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
    28. Re:well-Planespeak. by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      Except the trucks are very small, and only carry a very small load. If you want to send something larger there is a simulation of a tube that attaches to both ends of the route, where you can push a larger load into the tube, it's broken up into pieces small enough to fit on a stream of small trucks, which are sent on their way, reassembled at the other end of the tube where you can pull it out again.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    29. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Toll roads don't generally let you travel more quickly. Usually toll roads are the only way to get from point A to point B, and then since the state has this nice toll road there, they see no reason to build other roads from A to B. And since they get those nice tolls anyway, they don't even feel the need to keep the toll road in particularly good condition, it's not like the drivers have any other route to take.

      Or maybe I'm just bitter from living in Pennsylvania.

    30. Re:well-Planespeak. by Xichekolas · · Score: 1

      Some roads are toll roads where people can pay to get somewhere faster just like you pay for a faster connection to the internet. There's nothing wrong with that. Some roads have fast speed limits, some have slower speed limits, and that all factors into how fast the truck gets to its destination. The internet works the same way. Those trucks are called packets...

      A slight refinement to your analogy. Paying for a faster connection doesn't increase the speed of the truck (assuming a truck is a packet like you say). The truck (packet) still moves at the speed of light/electrons (slowed by relaying latency of course). A better way to put it is to say that the main highways have billions of lanes, and you can pay for wider on-ramps. Pay more money and your on-ramp has twice as many lanes. Your 'fast speed limit roads' are really roads with more lanes than your 'slow speed limit roads'.

      At least that is my interpretation.

      --

      Self-referential Sigs are cool on /. these days...

      54

    31. Re:well-Planespeak. by rolandog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This was actually recreated in a Daily Show episode by Jon Stewart and John Hodgman.

    32. Re:well-Planespeak. by PacoTaco · · Score: 1

      The type of enclosure does not determine the function.

      Well, actually...

    33. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You speak as if they are no longer widely used, no one here been to a drive-in bank lately?

    34. Re:well-Planespeak. by kruhft · · Score: 1

      Nope, but I'm kinda old fashioned...

    35. Re:well-Planespeak. by bertybassett · · Score: 0

      No, no, he meant 'Pubes'....in so far as the internet is a big tangled mess that you have to really work your fingers/tongue/other-soft-parts into in order to get anywhere. And occasionally, just when you think you've got what you're after, it comes off in your hands. Or worse, just when you are expecting an IPsex tunnel, you find instead that you're grasping a male connector with a huge dongle that wont fit your plug hole....
       
      Its all basically a nightmare

      --
      Wibble-Wobble, Wibble-Wobble, jelly on a plate
    36. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's more like trying to pack a tractor trailer full of very massive amounts of garbage, only to find out that the truck won't fit through the road. you've got to unload the truck and transfer all of the cargo to a dozen smaller trucks, and when the stuff arrives at the destination, you've got to put it all back on another tractor trailer waiting on the other end before you can get it out. it helps if you label what went where before the disassembly, as well. packet loss is a truck that doesn't get past the weighing staiton, and denial of service attacks are trucks that ignore weighing stations completely.

    37. Re:well-Planespeak. by kayditty · · Score: 1

      why are metaphors needed? people _aren't_ stupid. I just tell them straight up. I explained all but the entire DNS system to my dad in about five minutes once, and I'm confident I'd gotten the point across concisely. I find it particularly easy to explain any foreign terminology that I introduce, but maybe I'm more deft with language. I think the bigger problem is whether people are willing to listen; I'm not sure my dad was.

      there could be a slight issue of general education*, however. in america, not many people are, and, for the ones who are, it doesn't seem to make any difference as far as their ability to reason goes, not to mention that they don't even seem particularly bright in the things they've studied, more often than not.

      the bright young kids who happen to be more open minded and willing to learn (pretentious as they may be sometimes), in my opinion, are able to grasp new concepts much easier than those brought up in the public schooling system to not have a care (atleast about anything except their looks and the latest britney spears album).

      * I don't mean education so much as I mean there is an issue with people being "educated" to not want to learn, so I do not contradict my earlier statement of people not being stupid, which, I believe, does not necessarily equate to ignorance, anyway.

    38. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capitalism at it's finest, destroying the market for profit.

    39. Re:well-Planespeak. by Eivind · · Score: 1, Informative
      Some of them do:

      $ telnet someserver smtp
      220-someserver ESMTP Exim, welcome.
      HELO eivind
      250 someserver Hello eivind, nice to meet you !
      MAIL FROM eivindorama@gmail.com
      250 OK
      RCPT TO someguy@somewhere
      250 Accepted. Will do my best to deliver your message.
      DATA
      354 Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself
      Subject: Message for you

      Hi somguy, how's it going ?
      .
      200 Message accepted for delivery.
      QUIT

      Most people don't imagine that email-servers go around exchanging courtesies with oneanother while delivering mail, but infact many of them do. Some of them even have a sense of humour. (postfix used to, for example, on wrong commands say something along the lines of "Proper forging of email requires learning SMTP")

    40. Re:well-Planespeak. by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that. I think that this time, I finally *got* it - after months of knowing that this net neutrality thing was important (everyone was talking about it), but having no clue whether the law should be passed or not.

    41. Re:well-Planespeak. by Falladir · · Score: 1

      "How would one explain how the internet works to someone with no clue at all?" I was setting my mom up with gaim, FireFox and Thunderbird, and I ran into this kind of challenge. She has only ever used AOL for e-mail and browsing. I told her that the program she had been using, the one provided by AOL, was like a "little man." "Your computer is like a city-state," I told her, "and you are the ruler. The internet is everything outside your city state." By describing each application as a "little man" or, if that broke down, a team of little men, I was very successful in conveying the workings of the internet to her. "Some of the little men on your computer never leave your kingdom. There are simple ones, like Calc and Notepad, and more complicated ones, like Word and Excel. Basic media playering software also never leaves your kingdom to communicate with the internet. Your browser is a little man that runs around (or makes phone calls, whatever) to little men in other cities, called (in geekspeak) "servers." You tell your browser to get the content of a webpage, which has an address, (http://www....) and he runs to that address, obtains the content, and runs back to display it for you. He's also able to bring back other kinds of packages than webpages. This is how you download files. Your chat client is anothel little man. His job is to communicate with other little men who have similar purposes (mentioning the central AOL server is optional). You can take this analogy pretty far: "when you want to find out if I'm online, mom, you start your chat client (yes, that's gaim) and the first thing he does is to run around to the city-states of all the people on your contact list, finding out who is online and who is not. In the process, he informs any of your online contacts that you can now be reached through him. If you want to send a message to someone that he says is online, you call him before you [at this point, alt+tab or click on the gaim icon in the tray], dictate the message, and tell him to go deliver it."

    42. Re:well-Planespeak. by MrGond · · Score: 1

      PLANEspeak? wouldn't it be PLAINspeak? ah..maybe you mean talking about flaps, ailerons wings etc! :-)

      --
      AT
      ok
      ATDT1324356
      no sig
    43. Re:well-Planespeak. by StarkRG · · Score: 1

      Had my grandmother's bank in upstate New York not had a drive through option I wouldn't have known what you were talking about. I think that one's gone now too, they've been replaced by drive through ATMs.

    44. Re:well-Planespeak. by tzanger · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Nice description. It reminded me of an old description I shamelessly copied from somewhere long ago and forgot the source. If anyone knows, I'd love to give proper attribution:

      "Think of the Internet as a highway."

      There it is again. Some clueless fool talking about the "Information Superhighway." They don't know anything about the 'net. It's nothing like a superhighway. What a rotten metaphor.

      Suppose the metaphor ran the other way. Suppose highways were like the 'net.

      A highway hundreds of lanes wide, most with pitfalls for potholes. Privately operated bridges and overpasses. No highway patrol, save for a couple of rent-a-cops on bicycles with broken whistles. Five hundred member vigilante posses with nuclear weapons. A minimum of 237 on-ramps at every intersection.

      No Signs. Want to get to Ensenada? Holler out the window at a passing truck and ask for directions. Ad hoc traffic laws. Some lanes would vote to make use by a single-occupant vehicle a capitol offense on Monday through Friday between 7:00am and 9:00pm. Other lanes would just shoot you without a trial for talking on a car phone.

      America Online would be a giant diesel-smoking bus filled with hundreds of Ebola victims on board throwing dead wombats and rotten cabbage at the other cars, most of which have been assembled from kits. Some are built around 2.5 horsepower lawnmower engines with a top speed of 9 miles per hour. Others burn nitroglycerine and idle at 120. No license plates. World War II bomber nose art instead. Terrifying paintings of huge teeth or vampire eagles. Bumper mounted machine guns. Flip somebody the finger and get a white phosphorus grenade up your tailpipe. Flatbed trucks cruise around with anti-aircraft missile batteries to shoot down the traffic helicopter. Little kids on tricycles with squirtguns filled with hydrochloric acid switch lanes without warning.

      Welcome to the Internet.

    45. Re:well-Planespeak. by smoker2 · · Score: 1
      I mentioned the word "server" to my sister the other week, and she had to ask what it was. After trying to explain how it was different than her Dell laptop, I finally sent her a picture off google images of a big server rack and she finally got it.
      So you have given her entirely the wrong information, and you wonder why the general public don't understand what it's all about.

      A server is a piece of software, which provides a service to other pieces of software, whether they are on the same machine or a remote machine. Hence in Linux we have the X server, which provides the GUI to the local machine. It can also be used to provide a GUI to a remote machine. It does not have to be based in a 42U rack !

      The pictures you sent to your sister are only pictures of machines that are designed to be more reliable at providing a service to many other remote machines, and also are dedicated to providing that service. If one day she gets hacked and you discover that somebody has installed an FTP server on her machine, how are you going to explain that ? She will most likely think that a server is only a massive pile of boxes somewhere else, never that her lowly little machine is just as capable of acting in that capacity.

    46. Re:well-Planespeak. by somersault · · Score: 1

      I was thinking that the speed limit thing is a bit off, because I think of the speed of the net more in terms of latency than bandwidth. Bandwidth is maybe more like getting more lanes for your trucks to drive in, while the speed limit is always the same (depending on what medium your signal is travelling through), and journey times are dictated by distance and congestion on the roads!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    47. Re:well-Planespeak. by xappax · · Score: 1

      A better way to put it is to say that the main highways have billions of lanes, and you can pay for wider on-ramps.

      I think there's an important point that this analogy misrepresents: Net neutrality isn't about the infrastructure itself, it's about the arbitrary control of that infrastructure. In a non-neutral net, if you pay for "premium" access the ISP doesn't run more fiber out to your house to increase your bandwidth. The bandwidth is already there, you're just granted permission to use it, or granted the right to clobber other people's packets to get yours sent sooner.

      You're essentially paying to have the highway patrol pull over cars that are in your lane, so that you can go at top speed at all times. Drivers who haven't paid off the highway patrol will still get where they're going, but it'll be a lot slower since they're forced to yield at all times to those who can pay. The non-premium drivers can have perfectly good roads and perfectly fast cars, but as long as there's an authority who can arbitrarily grant and revoke the right to go fast in exchange for bribes, they'll be going as slow as that authority wants.

    48. Re:well-Planespeak. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      Good point. How would one explain how the internet works to someone with no clue at all?

      I would describe it in terms of sending physical packages around the planet. That gives you concrete examples of routing (including least-cost routing and routing tables), of peer-to-peer and server-client relationships, of the concept of there being multiple layers, the concept of encapsulated packets, and probably lots of other things I haven't considered yet. Nothing maps 100% to the actual behavior of the internet but the internet, but the postal model is probably the next-closest.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    49. Re:well-Planespeak. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Has your mother got severe learning difficulties, or do you just enjoy patronising her?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    50. Re:well-Planespeak. by Falladir · · Score: 1

      Has your mother got severe learning difficulties, or do you just enjoy patronising her?

      Dude...you don't understand the difficulties people face in learning to use their computers. Sure, young people "just get it" to a certain extent, but not everyone has the intuition that we've grown up with.

      If I'd said "This is thunderbird. It is another program for receiving and sending e-mail," she'd have balked. She's used to one thing, and, unfortunately, it's the client she got when she had aol (she's on roadrunner now, but still uses an aol address and software). Switching from software that you're used to to software that you're unfamiliar with is a at worst an annoyance, to the slashdot crowd, and at best, a pleasure. For regular people the barrier of switching is really significant. Switching is so hard that even though aol has terrible ui and still bombards her with advertisements, she will be less efficient and happy with thunderbird and firefox for quite some time.

      Explaining *why* she was switching really helped her initiative. The "little man" provided by aol is not as good as the new ones. That kind of metaphor is appealing. It's not patronizing because she knows it's just a metaphor. Do you think it's really a bad one?

    51. Re:well-Planespeak. by SheeEttin · · Score: 1

      Heh, I remember one server I was telnetting into to see if it was working said "sayonara" when you quit.

    52. Re:well-Planespeak. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know the "different speed limits" bit isn't all that great. That said, there are speed differences. The speed of electrical propagation in copper is constant at about 2/3rds the speed of light. In fiber, it's constant at about 50%. Thus, there is a small difference in speed, depending on the medium. Nowhere near the speed difference on roads, of course. There's also a potentially large difference in packet routing speed between a high-end BGP router on the backbone and some low-end desktop PC running as a small business firewall. I guess that most closely compares with poorly timed traffic lights. :-)

      With the bandwidth thing, I did say that you would get the HOV lane, so that's pretty much what I was getting at. A toll road is faster because it is a shorter path from point A to point B, while existing roads can get you there, but you have to go through point C. Thus, it's at least a semi-reasonable analog of routing traffic through slower hops to reduce throughput. It's about as close as I could get to prioritization in a highway system. Not perfect, but....

      Maybe I should have said that the state would let trucks from California pile up at the weigh station and would only let a few California trucks enter the state at a time. I'm not sure how many people notice that trucks have to stop at weigh stations when they enter a state, though, so it might have been a slightly more precise analogy at the expense of being slightly less accessible to the general public. Not sure how much it matters either way.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    53. Re:well-Planespeak. by SnapShot · · Score: 1

      And sometimes a piece of ice gets stuck in your straw. This is like a denial of service attack.

      --
      Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
    54. Re:well-Planespeak. by AJWM · · Score: 1
      ask for a web page, the server sends you a web page. How much more bleedingly obvious could it be?

      Exactly. Ask for graphics to be drawn on the screen, the (X11) server draws them on the screen. I don't know why people have problems with the concept of the X server running on the application client computer.

      ;-)

      --
      -- Alastair
    55. Re:well-Planespeak. by knewter · · Score: 1

      Capitalists cannot destroy the market. The market is primarily consumer desires. If AT&T turns their product into something undesirable, they will lose customers to someone offering something better. I hate hate hate the idea of a tiered internet, but I fear federal intervention far more. Specifically, I hate the idea of a tiered internet because the only reason I buy access to the interwebs is to get to my various services. If they charge google more for access, they hurt me as a consumer. But more importantly, they double charge for a service. I think that the net should be neutral, but I think we should maintain this via consumer demand. Letting idiots in Congress that have no grokkable concept of the internet start dictating how that happens, either way, is begging for disaster.

      I think Congress should hire a bunch of geeks to call bullshit when people start talking about things they don't understand, and I think they should pay them to publicly ask the talking heads questions until said heads' ignorance dominates the conversation. But whatev.

      --
      -knewter
    56. Re:well-Planespeak. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Parodiable?

      Would the ostentatious use of pseudo-words be considered pulling a Quayle, or a Gore?

    57. Re:well-Planespeak. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of HAL-9000, not ISO. ISO-9000 is some kind of standardized business process or something.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    58. Re:well-Planespeak. by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      a the cool thing is you can then describe different email clients just like different "little men"

      Outlook/Outlook Express : two brothers one the Older brother that drank his way through harvard and thinks He Knows More Than You Do and his little brother who is currently in High School (and is just smart enough to miss doing the "Short Bus shuffle:")

      Thunderbird/SeaMonkey Mail : two twins that live in different houses (okay one is living in an condo with a couple friends but..) they laugh at the O/Oe pair and try to do a better job

      Pine/Mutt: two old geezers that get the job done but they don't quite speak english (or is it that they can't hear as well)

      others??

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    59. Re:well-Planespeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You almost always have other options than the toll roads. For example, look at http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en& q=&z=10&ll=40.994411,-80.374603&spn=0.536919,0.752 563&om=1

      60 is the toll road and 18 is the non-toll road. Either will get you from Beaver Falls to West Middlesex. This is an easy one, as there is a single route available. Other toll road bypasses are more complicated (involving multiple roads) but still possible.

      I think that you are discounting non-highways as routes. It's true that 18 is not a highway (at least not for most of its length), but it will get you there.

    60. Re:well-Planespeak. by BakaHoushi · · Score: 1

      Well, I'll admit I'm not very knowledgeable in business or computer terms, so I just took a reoccurring joke from Dilbert (something being ISO-9000 certified... I'd assumed that name was too silly to be real, though it seems I was wrong).

    61. Re:well-Planespeak. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Nope, Dilbert is funny because it's true!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    62. Re:well-Planespeak. by bandmassa · · Score: 1

      But isn't the "Tubes" analogy like those old pneumatic communication pipes? (The ones where you'd roll a document into a cylinder and pop it into a pipe and air pressure would blow the cylinder upstairs to accounting, or another pipe would take the cyclinder to marketing.)

      Seems to me, the cylinders are like data packets and the pipes are like T1s, T3s, DSLs, Trunks and Dial-ups.

      So tubes or trucks, all analogies work to some degree but breakdown on close scrutiny.

      If tubes helps non-geeks understand this mess we call the internet in a way that means they make fewer cockups, let them think of it as tubes. If they prefer trucks, let them think of it as trucks. They both wrong but neither is.

      --
      "I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
  8. Windoze Only by Fyre2012 · · Score: 1

    Hm, that's funny... these tubes seem to run windows
    System Requirements: Microsoft Windows XP running Service Pack 2 + Microsoft .NET Framework

    Oh snap! Not compatible with my Internets Tubes, such a shame.

    --
    This is not the greatest .sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
    1. Re:Windoze Only by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Oh snap! Not compatible with my Internets Tubes, such a shame.

      I'm wondering where this stupid "internets" word came from which is even cropping up in serious discussions - was it on some US chat show or something?

    2. Re:Windoze Only by arpy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Coined by Bush - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internets_(colloquial ism) BUSH: ...We can have filters on Internets where public money is spent. There ought to be filters in public libraries and filters in public schools so if kids get on the Internet, there is not going to be pornography or violence coming in. and BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the, uh, Internets, that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all-volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets.

    3. Re:Windoze Only by arpy · · Score: 1
      Cripes sorry for the lack of paragraph breaks!

      Coined by Bush - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internets_(colloquial ism)

      BUSH: ...We can have filters on Internets where public money is spent. There ought to be filters in public libraries and filters in public schools so if kids get on the Internet, there is not going to be pornography or violence coming in.

      and:
      BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks. I hear there's rumors on the, uh, Internets, that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all-volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets.

    4. Re:Windoze Only by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny
      Cripes sorry for the lack of paragraph breaks!

      That's OK. It takes quite a bit more than mere paragraph formatting to make sense out of anything GWB says.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Windoze Only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even though nobody ever used the term "internets" when referring to the Internet, he was defended for that use of terminology. Now it's common enough, clearly he wins at the internets.

    6. Re:Windoze Only by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Hanging off every word no matter how stupid - how did you guys get a Republican King?

  9. Share files on the Internet, right? by Giloo · · Score: 1, Funny

    So, where do I get the torrent? Oh wait..

  10. Pure marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is just a marketing strategy to try and build hype for their product. Explain to me how you implement the concept of "internet as a series of tubes"?. It's not a metaphor for anything - it's a running joke of how Ted Stephens is in the pockets of lobbyists and is trying to "educate" people on the importance of abolishing net neutrality.

  11. Stupid old Senators by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

    Damn him for not saying that the Internets is a series of hot horny women who want to share their charms with virgin geeks everywhere. What the hell do I need with tubes?

    --
    Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    1. Re:Stupid old Senators by k_187 · · Score: 1

      Well, a properly sized tube and a tube of astroglide can approximate the hot horny women...

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    2. Re:Stupid old Senators by Dissman · · Score: 1

      But that'd be stating the obvious... we netzians call it pr0n!

    3. Re:Stupid old Senators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You see, women are like a series of tubes...

  12. What's wrong with tubes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I know people like to make fun of the Senator, but what really is so wrong with thinking of the internet as tubes. Are the wires and fiber which can only transmit so much data at a time that different from tubes that can only move so much material? People talk about needing a "fatter pipe" without bringing on ridicule, and a pipe is nothing but a tube.

    Or is it just that the rest of the Senator's speach that was ignorant, and people just latch onto tubes as a one word reminder.

    1. Re:What's wrong with tubes? by kfg · · Score: 1

      Or is it just that the rest of the Senator's speach that was ignorant, and people just latch onto tubes as a one word reminder.

      The dude more or less said that it took him two days to get an email because the tubes were full.

      KFG

    2. Re:What's wrong with tubes? by dangitman · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it didn't take two days to get an email, it took two days to get "an internet." I'm downloading the internet right now, and it's been taking a lot longer than two days. That guy must have some hella tubes for it to only take two days.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    3. Re:What's wrong with tubes? by tyler.willard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Tubes as a metaphor wouldn't be problematic in and of itself. However, after saying "it's a series of tubes" he elaborated by saying "it's not a truck". Whilst babbling in this manner he said his staff sent him "an internet" and it took 2 days to get to him because the tubes were full. He basically has no understanding of the subject and butchered what could have been an ok metaphor.

    4. Re:What's wrong with tubes? by Punto · · Score: 1
      I think it's more like a series of trucks connected by a bunch of tubes. Sometimes it's all about sending stuff through the tube (IRC), sometimes it's about dumping stuff on a truck (google has some big ones), most of the time it's a convination of both.

      I think we laugh at the guy because of the bizarre situation: a senator had an idea about how the internet worked (that he pulled out of his ass) and when he discovered he was wrong, he just went out to enlighten the rest of the world about it, like he just made a big discovery for all humanity.

      --

      --
      Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!

    5. Re:What's wrong with tubes? by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      what really is so wrong with thinking of the internet as tubes.


      What is wrong is that it leaves out the most important thing; the thing that makes the whole shebang work.

      The Internet is not a series of tubes; it is a series of agreed upon ways of delivering information.

      Tubes are passive and what goes down them uniformly follows the path of least resistance. The Internet when it delivers information is dynamic; it is continually making decisions about the best way to get data from its source to its destination. Those decisions are strictly fair: the network makes its best effort for every packet of data within the limits of the service the user asked for when he placed that packet on the network.

      Describing the Internet as a series of tubes is self serving. Whey shouldn't companies control what flows over their "tubes"? But if you describe the Internet as a kind of agreement or compact for information interchange, things look different. Sure, it's your tubes, but you built those tubes because your customers are paying you to access the wealth of value created by a fair an impartial market for information.

      What the vendors want to do is pull a bait and switch on their customers.

      The customers are looking for Internet access, which is a commodity. You can only make high profits selling a commodity by dint of exceptional efficiency, foresight, and maybe a litle luck. The vendors would prefer to sell a proprietary information network, where it's easier to make money once you've locked the customer in.

      The problem is that nobody wants a proprietary network (like the old AOL). Such a network would have only a fraction of the value of an Internet. A "non-neutral" Internet (which is in my opinion an oxymoron) allows them to bootstrap their proprietary offerings by freeloading off the Internet. They'll give customers unfettered access to Internet services for which they have no replacement offering. As soon as they have a replacement offering, they will place their thumbs on the routing scale to give their inferior products a leg up.

      Net neutrality is good for the information market in the way that common markets are good for trade. Non-netural networks are like trading systems with high tariffs: they protect inefficient producers.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:What's wrong with tubes? by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      It should be possible to prioritise some types of traffic, eg VOIP. However it should not be up to the ISP to decide which companies get preferred traffic. It should be up to the consumer.

      Anyway, if your network can't handle all the traffic that people are trying to pump across it, prioritisation is not the best answer. Instead you should be looking at improving the bandwidth of your backbone and any peering arrangements. Or perhaps limit your customers to the bandwidth you actually have.

      Thankfully in Australia, ISP's can't get away with this kind of crap. Every broadband plan is either pay per GB (which is now only common for business use and still includes some kind of monthly minimum) or they throttle your connection, without cutting you off completely, after you have downloaded your monthly allowance. All of which is clearly stated in any contracts that you agree to. Thankfully even Telstra seems to have dropped "unlimited" from the name of their plans.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
  13. Commercial Plug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a commercial plain and simple.

  14. You got tubes... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    But what about the little people running inside the tubes to deliver messages?

  15. The burning question by jspoon · · Score: 3, Funny

    How long does it take to send an internet over it? Sometimes it takes days to receive them on the current implementation.

  16. Just Marketing spin. by XorNand · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are a zillion apps out there that accomplish the same thing. This is just one company riding a meme for publicity sakes. God how I hate marketers...

    --
    Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    1. Re:Just Marketing spin. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am the marketer at TubesNow.com and my name is Steve. And no, we didn't name it Tubes because of the Senator from Alaska although we do get a chuckle out of it here in Boston. We named it Tubes because of the metaphor we borrowed: the pneumatic tube used at many bank drive ins to transfer documents & cash. You know that cool thing at the bank the teller uses to send you money with a whoosh? Tubes is the digital version of that - letting you share with many people at once. Just like that bank tube, Tubes is secure, bi-directional, personal (you see and wave at the teller behind glass while she counts out your money), private, nearly instantaneous and fun. I remember getting lollipops in the tube when my Dad would drive to the bank (way before ATMs) and I practically begged him to use the bank tube because I was trying to figure out how it worked. We could have called it Star Trek (but we didn't, that would really be bad marketing) since some people think of it as part Replicator and part Transporter. We think it is cool and I hope you try it. It is beta software and we're hoping the slashdot crowd helps us make it better.

      And to the other person worried about getting his computer filled with stuff that other people send you, be aware that we implemented a feature called "On Demand" that lets you see what people are sending you before you accept. Or you can accept it all, delete your local copy, and request a local copy any time you want, on any computer.

      Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to post them on our forum!

    2. Re:Just Marketing spin. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      interestingly I had a dream about this two nights ago (using a browser based OS though) not knowing anything about what you guys were doing. This happens allot, and i'm mentioning it here because, as they say, enough is enough. One day i'm going to have an original thought for myself instead of tapping into the public consciousness and be a bagillionaire. Maybe I'll write a spam filter for those with ESP.

      anyway, i get the concept. good work.

    3. Re:Just Marketing spin. by Zen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't get it. The techie link does not explain in the least bit how it actually works. Does the data transfer happen directly between the users? Does it go through a server first where everything has the potential of being logged? In the case of multiple recipients is it unicast or multicast? What level of security have you done (I assume that the file transfers are encrypted). The email looked like a custom app to me, not any old email client, does that go through a centralized server before it is sent out as 'real' smtp email? What ports do you use for transfer, and does it work through a NAT?

      All right - going through their website quickly before I hit submit I got most of my answers. It's TCP 80 and 443, it appears to use a centralized server (thereby having a 2GB limit, and logging all access), and does not work through NAT yet.

      But this information should definitely have been available in the techies video. There was no technical information in that video at all.

    4. Re:Just Marketing spin. by Attaturk · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I am the marketer at TubesNow.com and my name is Steve.
      Hi Steve. We here at /. have no problem with innovations and new technologies. We love the stuff. We're not good with "marketers" though. You were innocent/ignorant/brave enough to come here so I'll try to be kind even though I know some of us would probaly like to eat your brain with a spoon.

      So if you have some "news for nerds" or "stuff that matters", by all means share it with us. We'll want to know all the gory technical details that the mainstream press gets turned off by. If we think it rocks, you'll hear no end of it. We'll be bragging to everyone about how we know about this cool new thing that's really clever and is going to be huge. I should imagine that scenario to be a marketer's wet dream.

      However on a more cautionary note, if you should ever try to use or misuse us, or this site, purely as a marketing tool, we'll tear your product to pieces. It'll be mocked by us mercilessly and swiftly forgotten. The overall marketing effort would be starkly hindered by the historic mauling that we gave it in its infancy. That sounds a lot like a marketer's worst nightmare.

      So please, tell your marketer friends our message. Bring us genuine, interesting news and we'll do your job for you better than you could have ever hoped. Bring us tired, overhyped, nothing new to see here slashvertisements and we'll get mad. Then we'll get even. Then we'll go back to being odd.

      If you think there's something truly new or special about your product, double-check with some really hardcore geek friends. If they say things like "so it's just a file sharing app?" or "and?" then it's probably best not to bring the hype to our door. IMHO you should only bring it here if they say things like: "Holy crap - why didn't I think of that?" or "Damn that's smart. I thought I knew what I was talking about but your guys must really know their shit!" or even "You're shitting me! When did that happen?"

      Good luck with selling the software.
    5. Re:Just Marketing spin. by zizzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...we'll tear your product to pieces. It'll be mocked by us mercilessly and swiftly forgotten. The overall marketing effort would be starkly hindered by the historic mauling that we gave it in its infancy.

      Yeah, just like the thrashing we gave the iPod. You suck, Apple!
    6. Re:Just Marketing spin. by Propaganda13 · · Score: 1

      You don't need an original idea to become a "bagillionaire", you just need to actually implement your idea. Hell, a lot of times you don't even need to improve on an idea, just make your version more popular than someone else's.

    7. Re:Just Marketing spin. by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

      I am the marketer at TubesNow.com and my name is Steve.

      Hello, Steve. I wanna give you a tip in the marketing of Tubes: don't market it for serious use (i.e. in companies, for business files), because you have a giant flaw in the entire concept: versioning conflict without central "resolution" authority.

      In versioning systems, when two people update a file at once, a central authority (the versioning system server responsible for the entire repository) messages back the clients so they can properly resolve the conflicts *before* they are submitted. The operations are guaranteed to be properly sequenced and atomic.

      In your system, which is based on P2P, it's possible to submit changes from two clients and they content is sent through various "tubes" before two conflicting changes "meet" somewhere along the "tubes".

      This is a maintenance nightmare. But of course, it may be good for a couple of friends to share few small files that don't change a lot.

      Good luck with your project.

    8. Re:Just Marketing spin. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would moderate this as +1, Arrogant.

    9. Re:Just Marketing spin. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to be fair to Steve.
      It was not him who posted it here. Now it is here, I guess its ok that they participate in the discussion, right?
      So unless you know that this Tube company was actually behind the original post, lets not blame them for misusing ./

    10. Re:Just Marketing spin. by sharkey · · Score: 1

      We named it Tubes because of the metaphor we borrowed: the pneumatic tube used at many bank drive ins to transfer documents & cash.

      So which files are "coins" and will cause the electronic bottle to get stuck halfway under the Internet? And does it make those pathetic groaning sounds when it happens?

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    11. Re:Just Marketing spin. by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not your first manifesto.

  17. "The Windows-only app"-Fire,aim,foot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So much for advertising a new application on /. when more than half the userbase can't use it."

    The Windows world grieves for your loss.

  18. Great! An easier way... by SupplyMission · · Score: 1

    ...to send some tube steak to my (female) friends (with benefits) when I'm not there in person!

    1. Re:Great! An easier way... by William_Lee · · Score: 1, Funny

      ...to send some tube steak to my (female) friends (with benefits) when I'm not there in person!

      Hmmmm... A poster on slashdot with access to a friend with benefits...Somehow I doubt it, unless the benefits you're referring to are access to a Segway and a D&D partner...

    2. Re:Great! An easier way... by SupplyMission · · Score: 1

      What can I say... once the girls witness the girth of my tube, they can't stop downloading my content.

    3. Re:Great! An easier way... by nacturation · · Score: 1

      ...to send some tube steak to my (female) friends (with benefits) when I'm not there in person!
       
      Hmmmm... A poster on slashdot with access to a friend with benefits...Somehow I doubt it, unless the benefits you're referring to are access to a Segway and a D&D partner... I hear the friend is a bit of a dumptruck.
      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  19. Would this even be news without Ted Stevens? by HerrEkberg · · Score: 1

    This company makes a metaphor about tubes, and suddenly it is news as if Ted Stevens' assertion might perhaps have been correct all along. But a user interface metaphor including tubes doesn't mean the internet is a series of them.

    In fact, I have an application where I drop files onto a duck (Cyberduck widget for Mac OS X), with the result that they are transferred to someplace else, but still the internet is not a series of ducks (I hope).

    1. Re:Would this even be news without Ted Stevens? by spiderbitendeath · · Score: 1

      It is if you use the avian protocol.

      http://paultan.org/archives/2004/11/29/rfc1149-cpi p/

      --
      Sometimes when I'm working on projects things disappear, I suspect gremlins.
    2. Re:Would this even be news without Ted Stevens? by theodicey · · Score: 1

      "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's ducks all the way down!"

    3. Re:Would this even be news without Ted Stevens? by bguzz · · Score: 1

      You misheard. Ducts, dude. A series of ducts.

    4. Re:Would this even be news without Ted Stevens? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      but still the internet is not a series of ducks (I hope).

      Spot on - they are not all in series since some things go in parallel. Obviously all those ducks are held together with tape.

    5. Re:Would this even be news without Ted Stevens? by JoeDuncan · · Score: 1

      Uhm, what the hell did I just do to my pet duck Quacker then??? Please?

  20. Interesting Product by Pooua · · Score: 1

    It looks like an interesting product. The most useful feature for me would be the ability to synchronize files easily between all my devices. I do have to wonder what would happen if malicious programs were shared through a tube? Sally wants to share a file that has a virus, so it instantly updates all the computers attached to the Tube. I suppose virus scanning software would work, but that wasn't covered in the demonstration.

    --
    Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
  21. So what's so new about this by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 1

    All decentralized version control systems do this kind of stuff already.

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  22. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  23. DropChute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't this what DropChute did like years ago?

    http://www.hilgraeve.com/dropchute/pro/index.html

  24. iFolder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  25. Marketing vs Privacy by mfh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Many slashdotters so far have commented on the brutal marketspaek going on in this presentation, but this concept has one thing going for it that torrent networks so far haven't touched on very well... the use of a private share network that is collaborative.

    I think Tubes looks like it will catch on. If sites like Facebook and Technorati implement some hooks into it, there is no telling where this could go.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Marketing vs Privacy by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I think Tubes looks like it will catch on. If sites like Facebook and Technorati implement some hooks into it, there is no telling where this could go.

      To Alaska, perhaps? But then there probably wouldn't be anything at the other end.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  26. Big Truck by The+Amazing+Fish+Boy · · Score: 1

    As Mac users know, The Big Truck file-sharing application has been around for years!

    1. Re:Big Truck by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Personally, I prefer a Ferrari filled with 60GB iPods for my bandwidth needs.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  27. who invented the tubes? by BigMike · · Score: 1

    Someday Sen Stevens will brag about inventing the tubes, and we'll still make fun ...

  28. Grouper much? by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    It looks like a total rip off of Grouper but that's okay cuz if it works the way they say it does, it kicks Grouper's ass several times over in features and functionality. btw I hope it has a little animation of the file being put into one of those containers and the bank and sucked up a tube cuz that's totally cool :-)

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
  29. It doesn't send Internets by techmuse · · Score: 1

    The slides showed Tubes sending Word files, spreadsheets, and other data through the tubes. But Senator Ted Stevens clearly described the capability to send entire Internets through the Tubes. If this can't send Internets, it is clearly not a complete Tube implementation.

  30. Yay! A metaphor! by Etherwalk · · Score: 2, Funny

    A metaphor that enables users to share files! I always thought we needed similes for that. How foolish of me.

  31. Security Issues? by TheSexican · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't it be pretty easy to, say, program some sort of virus/worm that uses tubes to replicate itself and then decimate a whole network of tube-linked computers? I feel that I might wait a while before jumping into these tubes feet first, lest an alligator be at the other end.

    --
    Hey, guys. Big gulps, huh? Cool. All right! Well, see ya later.
    1. Re:Security Issues? by tyler.willard · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily, it depends how the product is implemented. That said, email, IRC, and IM are all common malware vectors.

    2. Re:Security Issues? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say to wait a while before jumping into these tubes, as if your normal behavior would be to just dive right into any random tube you see...

  32. I am TubeSteak... by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    ...and i can confirm his access to female friends with benefits.

    Normally, he calls me up, we work out a schedule and I drive over to provide benefits for his lady friends. Honestly though, the commute is a real killer.

    Having a series of tubes would make everything vastly more convenient.

    /For the record, I've never played D&D
    //Or ridden a Segway

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:I am TubeSteak... by SupplyMission · · Score: 1

      Good sir,

      Your ruse is believable until we realize that you, too, have a Slashdot account! You are a clever imposter.

  33. The Real Tubes Metaphor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I am the marketer at TubesNow.com and my name is Steve. And no, we didn't name it Tubes because of the Senator from Alaska although we do get a chuckle out of it here in Boston. We named it Tubes because of the metaphor we borrowed: the pneumatic tube used at many bank drive ins to transfer documents & cash. You know that cool thing at the bank the teller uses to send you money with a whoosh? Tubes is the digital version of that - letting you share with many people at once. Just like that bank tube, Tubes is secure, bi-directional, personal (you see and wave at the teller behind glass while she counts out your money), private, nearly instantaneous and fun. I remember getting lollipops in the tube when my Dad would drive to the bank (way before ATMs) and I practically begged him to use the bank tube because I was trying to figure out how it worked. We could have called it Star Trek (but we didn't, that would really be bad marketing) since some people think of it as part Replicator and part Transporter. We think it is cool and I hope you try it. It is beta software and we're hoping the slashdot crowd helps us make it better.

    And to the other person worried about getting his computer filled with stuff that other people send you, be aware that we implemented a feature called "On Demand" that lets you see what people are sending you before you accept. Or you can accept it all, delete your local copy, and request a local copy any time you want, on any computer.

    Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to post them on our forum!

    1. Re:The Real Tubes Metaphor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So where is the Linux client ?????

      You can't come onto Slashdot and treat the tech savvy users here like the drones at the local Wal-Mart.

      Would it kill you to hire a decent *nix developer to port it ?

    2. Re:The Real Tubes Metaphor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - Windows only
      - Closed Source
      --> Thanks, but no thanks

    3. Re:The Real Tubes Metaphor by Mogster · · Score: 1

      Yeah those pneumatic tubes were cool and it's what I thought of when I took a gander at your site. Always thought they'd be cool to ride in if they could make one big enough. And they'd deliver Ted Stevens internet faster than than his dump truck filled tubes too ;-)
      Looking forward to having trying Tubes out

      --
      ACK NAK RST
    4. Re:The Real Tubes Metaphor by Qubit · · Score: 1

      Hi,

      Looking at the presentation of the "Tubes" software on your site, it looks like you have something like a distributed version control software. This sounds pretty cool.

      Do you have documentation available for the protocols you're using? I'd be interested in seeing a FOSS client for linux -- do you have plans for such a thing?

      --

      coding is life /* the rest is */
    5. Re:The Real Tubes Metaphor by luder · · Score: 1
      Always thought they'd be cool to ride in if they could make one big enough.

      Actually, they already made a couple of those, mostly in 19th century. I found this excerpt to be very interesting:

      "In 1867 at the American Institute exhibition in New York, Alfred Ely Beach demonstrated a 32.6 m long, 1.8 m diameter pipe that was capable of moving 12 passengers plus conductor. In 1869, the Beach Pneumatic Transit Company of New York constructed in secret a 95 m long, 2.7 m diameter pneumatic subway line under Broadway. The line only operated for a few months, closing after Beach was unsuccessful in getting permission to extend it. (Though widely believed to have been demolished to make way for the current subway system, some think the system may still exist buried beneath the city.

      It is probably just a myth that the system may still exist, but if that possibility is real I wonder what else was forgotten down there. Is it time for archaeologists to investigate our own recent past :-)?

    6. Re:The Real Tubes Metaphor by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      since im not going to do a signup (and hoping that you are monitoring this)

      1 Linux client/ some sort of API Docs to make one ---- heck if you do a good enough job you might see some fixes for the Windows Client
      2you do realize that even the folks that are above 20% to the right of RMS won't touch/support/may KOS something that is a file sharing tool that is not somewhat open source (open protocol open API open anything)
      3 Your Mailing List/Client List should be treated like Mafia Income (suggestion have a set of flags in the profile default to off for "partners access")
      4 have a set of tubes set for Linux Distros /FLOSS programs

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  34. Linux Equivalent by camperdave · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, the Linux equivalent to tubes would be, what?... pipes?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Linux Equivalent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it seems more like Usenet.

    2. Re:Linux Equivalent by killingrats · · Score: 1

      A. A truck hauling a load of Apples...
      Q. what is iTubes

      --
      Patience is not learned , it is practiced.
    3. Re:Linux Equivalent by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Patience is not learned , it is practiced.

      Nice sig. Is it a quote from somewhere?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:Linux Equivalent by thinkliberty · · Score: 1

      Nope. Ktubes and gTubes.

    5. Re:Linux Equivalent by melikamp · · Score: 1

      That would be Konduits.

    6. Re:Linux Equivalent by grappler · · Score: 1

      The chicken and the egg came at the same time... along with the toast and orange juice. kinky...
      --
      Vidi, Vici, Veni
  35. Or WASTE by devilsbrigade · · Score: 1

    It also seems a lot like a program WASTE we used to use here at my job to download music from each other without being detected running a P2P network. It was basically described as a "series or hidden TUNNELS in the network". It was interesting because you had to have approval to join the network, and only people who had your private key could connect directly to you, so the network was usually limited to a few trusted people.

  36. This is for staggeringly ignorant teens... by jimhill · · Score: 1

    ...at least, that's what I'm guessing from the "hipcool" language used in their fora (a/k/a "forums"). Nearly every topic is seeded by an "rlunetta" who writes as though she were a 13-yo MySpaceFlickrFrapprButchrBakrCandlestickMakr type. Either Adesso has hired a prepubescent to serve as their public face or they're slickly targeting this at the demographic that has conflated a computer with a keyboard-loaded tellybision.

    --
    Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
    1. Re:This is for staggeringly ignorant teens... by JoeDuncan · · Score: 1
  37. Get the scientists working on the tube technology by dr_wheel · · Score: 1

    ... immediately.

    -Tenacious D, "City Hall"

  38. [Just say] No thanks [to kiddie porn] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I don't care who I've invited to do what, I really don't want my friends to be able to put stuff on my PC as they feel fit."

    Then you're going to hate Tor.

    1. Re:[Just say] No thanks [to kiddie porn] by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Then you're going to hate Tor.

      Only if you run an exit node. Now Freenet on the other hand...

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  39. The relavent quote: by wile_e_wonka · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is why he gets mocked:

    "There's one company now you can sign up and you can get a movie delivered to your house daily by delivery service. Okay. And currently it comes to your house, it gets put in the mail box when you get home and you change your order but you pay for that, right.

    "But this service is now going to go through the internet* and what you do is you just go to a place on the internet and you order your movie and guess what you can order ten of them delivered to you and the delivery charge is free.

    "Ten of them streaming across that internet and what happens to your own personal internet?

    "I just the other day got, an internet was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday and I just got it yesterday. Why?

    "Because it got tangled up with all these things going on the internet commercially. ...

    "They want to deliver vast amounts of information over the internet. And again, the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck.

    " It's a series of tubes.

    "And if you don't understand those tubes can be filled and if they are filled, when you put your message in, it gets in line and its going to be delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of material.

    "Now we have a separate Department of Defense internet now, did you know that?

    "Do you know why?

    "Because they have to have theirs delivered immediately. They can't afford getting delayed by other people."

    This quote (more fully found here; there is also a link to the audio recording on that page) doesn't actually get at what the Senator was talking about--how corporations clog the "tubes," causing them to be unavailable to the average consumer for sending "internets," and therefore telephone companies should be allowed to charge fees to content providers to discourage clogging the "tubes."

    Here is a tracking of the Senator's delayed "internet."

    Also see, of course, the relevant Wikipedia entry.

    [and this is why we should probably hand decisionmaking authority with regard to this type of regulation to an expert body, rather than leaving it to congresspeople who don't even know the proper use of the word "email."]

    1. Re:The relavent quote: by emurphy42 · · Score: 1

      And here is some pure comedy gold.

      "...there's apparently an enormous amount of material... clogging Ted Stevens' tubes. Perhaps a little fiber... optic cable might be the answer."

  40. The Tubes were a GREAT band! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They sure made fun songs to listen to. "White Punks on Dope", "Talk to you later" and "She's a beauty". What's not to like about a band that would go on stage in suits & ties and have a lead singer named Fee Waybill?? :)

    1. Re:The Tubes were a GREAT band! by Bassman59 · · Score: 1

      They sure made fun songs to listen to. "White Punks on Dope", "Talk to you later" and "She's a beauty". What's not to like about a band that would go on stage in suits & ties and have a lead singer named Fee Waybill?? :)

      "We're white punks on dope, and our moms and dads live in Hollywood. Hang ourselves when we get enough rope!"

      And don't forget the hit, "What Do You Want From Life?"
  41. and the current release.... by Mogster · · Score: 1

    is broked.

    I took a gander at the site and thought it would be interesting to play around with.
    d/l and install. Watch a couple of the demo vids to see how it works.
    Try to create a Tube - the vid and docs say type in a name and press create...

    no go..
    The advanced window appears asking me to 'Select an account' and this is required.
    However this is a drop down box with no accounts pre-loaded and no apparent way to create them..
    Can't even click the ellipsis button to select another folder to share

    Pity cause it appears to be a good concept

    --
    ACK NAK RST
    1. Re:and the current release.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you log in with email address and the password you used when you downloaded? Sounds like you are not connected to the server. I just tried to create a new tube and it worked fine.

    2. Re:and the current release.... by Mogster · · Score: 1

      Yep and it was connected to the server given that it sync'd the What's New and Help tubes

      It may very well be a bug related to my machine. I've logged it with them and will wait for a response

      --
      ACK NAK RST
  42. What's wrong with tubes? sheltered childhood? by Gary+W.+Longsine · · Score: 1

    It's a lousy metaphor and it isn't helpful. We have enough metaphors for the internet already. Clearly all the good ones were already taken, and now they are scraping the bottom of the barrel, trying to find one that will be easily googlable.

    I got a tube for ya, right here.

    What's next? Hand-job metaphors? "The internet is really like a big Circle Jerk(s)

    --
    If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
  43. How about a series of tunnels? by iminplaya · · Score: 1

    Aren't I kinda, sorta, doing the same thing with Filezilla and a vpn? It's seems more private, and I feel a bit more secure actually connecting directly to the other end instead of another middleman that will just roll over for "National Security Letters" and the sort. I don't find this thing to be really new and impressive. After seeing the site, it looks like just another gimmick for pre-teens who only be giving up all their info for the marketers.

    FTS: "The only files that other will see are the files that you have chosen to share within a tube within the group of users you have invited. At no time do others actually read files from your system directly."

    Uh huh, until the Pentagon wants to see. I suppose as long as you assume that you will have no privacy with this thing, then there sould be no problem.

    --
    What?
  44. Plain Speak Analogy for Phone Number=IP by The+Monster · · Score: 1
    woolworths.com is the "phone number" for the special computer with Woolworths pages on it.
    No, 195.188.18.40 is like the "phone number", and DNS is like dialing 411 or looking up "Woolworths" in a phone directory. I use this all the time to explain what IP addressing is all about. People understand the hierarchical nature of phone numbers, being organized into Area Codes and exchanges, much like networks and subnets. I even wrote up a tutorial using this metaphor: Demystifying IP Addressing, which opens thusly:
    John Jones and Mary Smith both work for the same company. John's telephone number is 555-5123, and Mary's is 555- 5678, but when John wants to call Mary, or Mary wants to call John, they don't dial all those digits - just the last three. In fact, when they need to call someone outside the company, they actually have to dial '9', and then the rest of the phone number, sometimes including 1 and an area code (let's not even go into what they do when they talk to customers in Europe or South America!). Meanwhile, at another company, only the first three digits have to match, and the employees dial the last four.

    If you can understand how that works, then you can understand IP addressing....

    And so far, I've been right about that.
    --

    [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

    1. Re:Plain Speak Analogy for Phone Number=IP by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Right. But when you're explaining the entire concept of the internet, rather then domains, seems better to be slightly less detailed for the sake of understanding.

    2. Re:Plain Speak Analogy for Phone Number=IP by The+Monster · · Score: 1
      The biggest reason I make the distinction is because I do tech support, and when I'm trying to diagnose why a VPN connection isn't working, it's good to know if the underlying internet connection is.

      You'd be surprised how many people think "My Internet's down" because their DNS servers aren't accessible. Because of the idiotic assumption of certain OSes that if you aren't doing DHCP, you must also manually configure DNS, I've seen this happen when the ISP changes DNS servers.

      --

      [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
      SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

  45. I can tell you one thing about it... by SlashChick · · Score: 1

    It's not made for people who understand what "decentralized version control systems" are. :)

  46. Of course, they've already done that in Japan... by midnightJackal · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I went to the Miraikan in Tokyo this summer, and one of the coolest nerd things that they had was a physical model of the internet. My geek guy and I passed schmoopy "heart" messages back and forth across a series of connected conveyor belts using black and white colored balls, symbolizing 0s and 1s. The setup had an information display that, as far as my bad Japanese could read, said it was a graduate student project from a nearby University. It was incredibly cool. From the English part of their website we have the folowing:

    A Hands-On Model of the Internet Balls roll, and the workings of the Internet are revealed. Data coming and going over the Internet, whether text or images, is represented by a series of 0s and 1s. The series is divided into small chunks called "packets." An array of 0s and 1s called an "IP address," which represents the destination of the data is included in the header of each packet. The Internet exchanges data by delivering these packets from network to network. We have provided white and black balls to represent the 0s and 1s in the packets. In the exhibit, you can create your own packet of white and black balls and release your packet onto the Internet.

    You can get to it by clicking on the Exhibit 3 part of the 3rd floor on their flash-y map.

    We, of course, made plenty of "tubes" jokes, but the funniest had to be when one of the balls accidentally popped off the conveyor belt, and the message was dropped as it entered the receiving terminal as being badly formed. Great, because their model showed what happens when you literally drop a packet. *grin*
  47. I never understood why he got so much flack anyway by HexRei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I mean, it's a good metaphor. Regardless of the medium (electrical or optical) the internet really kind of IS a series of tubes of varying capacity, interconnecting a bunch of nodes.

  48. Sounds like iFolder by baptiste · · Score: 1

    Sounds a lot like Novell's iFolder which is a really neat application. Sync files from a central store to multiple computers using a thin client, or access then via a web browser. You can have any number of folders and control who can access what in each folder. Well except iFolder will run on all platforms (mono), not just Windows. And it's free.

  49. well-Poolspeak. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Needs a little work. Here's a tip. Expand your metaphor pool and your examples will not sound so stilted. Now try to overlay P2P or VOIP onto your "road" example, and you'll see why picking a good base metaphor is so important.

    1. Re:well-Poolspeak. by Garridan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      P2P: trade / craft shows. Individuals from all around the world flood an area to swap goods. They bring goods, and share with others. The person running the show doesn't need to own anything themselves -- they rely on the users to bring the content.

      VOIP: Couriers in faster (non-truck) vehicles can transport small payloads with relative ease.

      This is fun! What's next?

    2. Re:well-Poolspeak. by The+Lawnmower · · Score: 1

      Huh? The analogy is for the lower layers. Packets are trucks driving across a network of roads. The analogy is the same no matter what protocol the packets carry.

  50. Few of us know the meaning but who cares by dbIII · · Score: 1
    rather than leaving it to congresspeople who don't even know the proper use of the word "email."

    We can't be so smug - Email is the name of a decades old company that makes household electronics - the proper use is supposed to be "e-mail" even though few bother to use it. What is supposed to happen is elected officials get advised by experts instead of a baracading themselves in with a few personal freinds and the guys that pay the biggest bribes.

  51. Series of... by SQLz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens and the rest of the Senate are a series of giant assholes.

    1. Re:Series of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Here is a good one for some of those bosses out there!!!!!

      When the Lord made man, all the parts of the body argued over who would be boss.

      The brain explained that since he controlled all parts of the body, he should be boss.

      The legs argued that since they took the man whereever he wanted to go, they should be boss.

      The stomach countered with the explanation that since he digested all of the food, he should be boss.

      The eyes said that without them, man would be helpless, so they should be boss.

      Then the asshole applied for the job.

      The other parts of the body laughed that hard that the asshole became mad and closed up.

      After a few days the brain went foggy, the legs went wobbly, the stomach got ill, the eyes crossed and were unable to see.

      They all conceded and made the asshole boss.

      This proves that you don't have to be a brain to be boss......

      Just an asshole


      *Heard this story in slightly different versions many times over the years. This copy stolen from this link.

      Asshole is a term that could be used to describe many of the major backbone controllers in the US. What happens if one of them, say ATT, try to prove themselves boss? The internet was designed to be self-correcting and reroute packets, but would it do it well enough with the more limited then planned backbone providers? What would we be able to do besides scream at the FCC asking them to give ATT an enema? If they threaten to do so can the rest of the internet laugh and say sure, go ahead, we would love for you to give us all your customers? If we built a heavily tolerant web ( sorry i forget the term I've seen for such a wide coverage, self-repairing etc backbone and I am not a technophile ), which asshole could we trust to run it? Surely not the government though it would likely require government funding to start with. What happens if the entire or nearly the entire backbone in the US ends up with ATT or just ATT and Verizon? Whose pipes do the cable companies use? Do they use their own? Or could it be possible only Google will be left soon?

      Near as I can tell the telcos have been getting increasing permission to deny access to whomever they please. ATT's agreement not to discrminate on transfer rates on their network they signed on for to gain the recent merger has an expiration date. Can that agreement expiring be translated as permission to do so after that date?

      **Pardon me if this isn't well worded or are not very knowledgeable questions. I hope you at least enjoy the posting up top. If what I am asking about really is a problem like I am afraid it could be with my limited knowledge of the subject, please write the Assholes in D.C. about it too, especially if you could be portrayed as a real expert in the area.
  52. As a tech coordinator working in a school... by Pollux · · Score: 1

    I think Tubes looks like it will catch on. If sites like Facebook and Technorati implement some hooks into it, there is no telling where this could go.

    I'm already worrying about how I'll need to block its data traffic.

    This is exactly what kids will love. Kids love to share parts of their life with their friends. They share photos. They share messages. They share stories. Poems. Videos. Every kid socially needs to define themself, and the internet has become a great way to do it.

    Why has myspace (& its clones, which I'll just wrap together in the name "myspace") become so popular? Kids love to share who they are online. After watching the presentation, this tool lets them do that more than ever. They can define tubes that connect them with their friends, their cliques, their relatives...whole social circles can now be defined in this program. Myspace only organizes "friends," but it doesn't organize "networks of friends" like Tubes appears to do.

    While I don't think this app will replace myspace, I can see it being a part of the page...almost like subscribing to an RSS feed. Why bother posting links to hundreds of files on a website (personal, commercial, or otherwise), when you can just "tube" that page? (I'm not trying to be the first to verbify the name of the program, i.e. "google", but if Tubes catches on...I can say I was the first to lay claim to its usage!) You could pull up a sidebar in your web window, select that tube, and automatically have access to all the data they share.

    There is one drawback, however...everything gets downloaded to your hard drive. And with up to 2GB of storage per tube...well, let's just say that 300GB hard drives might just not hold the needs of your typical social 14-year-old teenage girl anymore.

  53. My preferred metaphor by MoxFulder · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The internet is a lot like an information superhighway...

    No, the Internet is NOT like a superhighway :-) From Usenet, 1994-ish:


            "Think of the Internet as a highway."

            There it is again. Some clueless fool talking about the "Information Superhighway." They don't know didley about the net. It's nothing like a superhighway. That's a rotten metaphor.

            Suppose the metaphor ran in the other direction. Suppose the highways were like the net. . .

            A highway hundreds of lanes wide. Most with pitfalls for potholes. Privately operated bridges and overpasses. No highway patrol. A couple of rent-a-cops on bicycles with broken whistles. 500 member vigilante posses with nuclear weapons. A minimum of 237 on ramps at every intersection. No signs. Wanna get to Ensenada? Holler out the window at a passing truck to ask directions. Ad hoc traffic laws. Some lanes would vote to make use by a single-occupant-vehicle a capital offense on Monday through Friday between 7:00 and 9:00. Other lanes would just shoot you without a trial for talking on a car phone.

            AOL would be a giant diesel-smoking bus with hundreds of ebola victims on board throwing dead wombats and rotten cabbage at the other cars, most of which have been assembled at home from kits. Some are built around 2.5 horsepower lawnmower engines with a top speed of nine miles an hour. Others burn nitrogylcerin and idle at 120.

            No license plates. World War II bomber nose art instead. Terrifying paintings of huge teeth or vampire eagles. Bumper mounted machine guns. Flip somebody the finger on this highway and get a white phosphorus grenade up your tailpipe. Flatbed trucks cruise around with anti-aircraft missile batteries to shoot down the traffic helicopter. Little kids on tricycles with squirtguns filled with hydrochloric acid switch lanes without warning.

            NO OFFRAMPS. None.
            Now that's the way to run an Interstate Highway system.
            (author unknown)
    1. Re:My preferred metaphor by Yfel · · Score: 1

      I know it's very unlikely, but stylistically that piece very strongly reminds me of Warren Ellis. Interesting that it's of unknown origin.

    2. Re:My preferred metaphor by Kjella · · Score: 2, Informative

      Look, the point of an analogy is that it's supposed to be related in some aspect - if they had to be similar in every aspect, nothing would be analogous to anything but itself.

      As for the basic flow, there's basicly two kinds of tubes - those that move liquid through pressure (hydraulic), and those that move liquid through decent (drains, sewer pipes). Pressure doesn't make sense - I don't send packets and then have to sent more packets to push the first ones. Neither does the other one, that'd imply some sort of directional net. Also, the liquid is just one big flow.

      A highway tend to give people many more of the right ideas - lane sizes, packetization with small and big vechicles, one packet moving independently of the other and so on. Tubes... not really. Maybe to show off some other aspect, but I don't see it.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:My preferred metaphor by niktemadur · · Score: 1
      Couldn't resist to place an entry from the Bullwer-Lytton "literature" contest:

      As the fading light of a dying day filtered through the window blinds, Roger stood over his victim with a smoking .45, surprised at the serenity that filled him after pumping six slugs into the bloodless tyrant that mocked him day after day, and then he shuffled out of the office with one last look back at the shattered computer terminal lying there like a silicon armadillo left to rot on the information superhighway.
      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    4. Re:My preferred metaphor by kerrbear · · Score: 1

      As for the basic flow, there's basicly two kinds of tubes - those that move liquid through pressure (hydraulic), and those that move liquid through decent (drains, sewer pipes). Pressure doesn't make sense - I don't send packets and then have to sent more packets to push the first ones

      Hmm, I was thinking the tube analogy was of the inter-office mail tubes of old (or at the drive thru bank window) that would send messages in enclosed packages by forced air to other offices. Not saying it wasn't water tubes, it's just I had a different picture in my head.

    5. Re:My preferred metaphor by russellh · · Score: 1
      A highway tend to give people many more of the right ideas - lane sizes, packetization with small and big vechicles, one packet moving independently of the other and so on.
      Yes. The highway analogy is better when considered from the scope and benefits of the project rather than information flow, though. The federal highways system united all the disparate road systems across the country, brought national standards like signs, lanes, markings, naming, maps, and of course, federal funding. It allowed you to drive around the country much more efficiently and enabled the trucking system of interstate commerce we have today. This is why it's so easy for geeks to criticize/misunderstand politicians and business people - the geek is thinking literal functional implementation details, the politician is thinking benefits and funding.
      --
      must... stay... awake...
    6. Re:My preferred metaphor by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      Holy CRAP

      I can't believe I've never read that before. After reading the bit about AOL being a big, smoking bus full of ebola victims... I started laughing so hard I'm still crying.

      Thanks for sharing!

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    7. Re:My preferred metaphor by Brickwall · · Score: 1
      Here's another point in favour of the highway analogy. Both it and the Internet were nurtured by the US Defence Department. Not many people know that the official name of the Interstate system is "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defence Highways". Ike, who had endured a marathon crossing of the US in 1919, and observed first hand the German autobahns, championed the Interstate system to ensure there was a quick and easy way to transport troops and equipment. DARPA championed the internet to ensure that its many scientists had a quick and easy way to exchange data and ideas.

      Of course, once both networks got into the hands of consumers, they morphed into completely different things. But that's just another similarity.

      --
      What was once true, is no longer so
    8. Re:My preferred metaphor by MoxFulder · · Score: 1

      Priceless!! I had never heard of this contest before, but for those interested it is a contest to write the "worst possible opening sentence of a novel": http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/

  54. Looks similar to "Enjoy My Media" by ZedNaught · · Score: 1

    A private files sharing app that I set up for my folks in NY that have Windows boxes. My parents love it for photo and video sharing with the in-laws. http://www.enjoymymedia.com/

  55. sounds like your tubes are tied... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ....but that stop your "friends" from sending you those important "files"....or trying to get some for themselves.

  56. Re:well-Planespeak. -what do you want from life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well, have you thought about a babys hand holding an apple metaphor?

  57. Collaboration vs Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Many slashdotters so far have commented on the brutal marketspaek going on in this presentation, but this concept has one thing going for it that torrent networks so far haven't touched on very well... the use of a private share network that is collaborative."

    Note those two phrases. You'll be seeing more of them in the future. ;-)

    BTW Yay to the two digit GUID.

  58. Tube Congestion by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

    We all know that porn and spam block tubes, causing the internets to be congested and slow down.

    Will this new service allow for online gambling to "flush out the tubes", since poker chips are round?

    --
    -David
  59. Re:I never understood why he got so much flack any by LodCrappo · · Score: 1
    Would you say that Fedex uses a series of tubes to deliver packages to your door?

    While on one level an analogy like tubes might make a certain kind of sense, for me at least it immediately brings to mind some kind of silly Rube Goldberg contraption with emails being put into bank teller container things and shot off across the internet in a burst of air. Plus he didn't say the internet works LIKE a series a tubes, he said IT IS a series of tubes. And thats just.... funny.

    --
    -Lod
  60. The problem is metaphors not tubes by Eskarel · · Score: 2, Interesting
    As far as it goes, and under very specific provisions, the tubes abstraction is not actually all that bad. Nor is the highway one, or any other abstraction.

    The problem is that while an abstraction can be a great way to explain a technical concept to someone non-technical, it isn't a complete understanding of the concept, and when non-technical people try to make decisions based on that metaphor they are often wrong.

    The internet is, in some ways, like, a series of tubes, but it is not actually a series of tubes, and when you make decisions about the internet as if it were a series of tubes instead of what it actually is, most of the time you'll get it wrong. Most of our elected officials don't have a technical background so we have a bunch of people trying to make decisions based, at best, on abstractions, or on the advice of experts(who are usually bought and paid for by someone).

    Probably the best solution to all of this is to start funding independent pools of experts on technical and scientific fields and then taking their advice, but those sorts of people don't tend to tell the politicians what they're being paid to want to hear, so that'll never happen.

    1. Re:The problem is metaphors not tubes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The internet is a series of improperly closed tags...

    2. Re:The problem is metaphors not tubes by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      I know, I know, but Slashdot doesn't allow you to edit your posts, and I was a bit tired.

  61. Well, in London... by Franklin+Brauner · · Score: 1

    ...they have the Tube. And it pretty much satisfies both arguments.

  62. I don't see the big deal by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... my ferrets have had internets for years! They love 'em! I even got them a router, that connects one of the 25' innernets to two of the 12' internets. The other three 25' innernets are simple PPP, however, and the routes are a tangled mess. I'm hoping to upgrade to a six port router in a few weeks, because as hard as the weasels try, the internets are DEFINITELY half duplex. They're not Cat5, either... he can stuff his head in, but that's all that'll fit without fragmentation.

    The thing that sucks the most is when one of the internets get a hole chewed into it. The damned packets end up misrouted, on the floor, and you have to twist the innernet so that the hole is facing up to make it stop. Having a kitten who repeatedly cannonballs the array doesn't help much, either, because he uses the holes in the web to intercept the traffic.

    In Ferret Internets, PACKETS SNIFF YOU!

    --

    help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  63. The Internet is like.. (obligatory StarTrek quote) by mnemotronic · · Score: 1
    Star Trek misquote:

    The Internet is a little bird tweeting in the meadow.
    The Internet is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad.
    Are your circuits registering correctly? Your root name servers are green!
    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  64. RFC* by textstring · · Score: 1

    No one really expects him to read white papers do they?

  65. To be implemented PHYSICALLY.. by Myself · · Score: 1

    Of course, there are plans afoot to actually transmit data over fluid-filled hoses, cardboard tubes, and whatever else can be cooked up by then. See my sig for the details.

  66. Is Steve gonna squirt me through this tube? by gondwannabe · · Score: 1

    Actually, it looks pretty cool and useful. Only problem - it won't install (click Run, whirl whirl hourglass, nothin); virus shield off, try again, rinse repeat. Nothin. Guess I won't be squirtin' anyone through my huge tube.

    --
    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people!
  67. What's New ? by shashark · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Remind me what's new here - We've been seeing this in Grouper (http://www.grouper.com), iMeem (http://www.imeem.com) and Krawler (http://www.krawlerx.com - shameless plug, it uses RSS and bit-torrent for file transfers as well). Same old Media sharing. Same old Social Networking. Same old File Transfer.

    Two things -
    (1) That p2p Networks are fringe activities, and 99% of the web users will use youtube.com to share videos is a fact these p2p networks have to realise.
    (2) There can not be a viable business model for p2p based file-sharing networks which doesn't rely on some sort of Adware or (minor) spyware. Since the volumes can never justify the ad-spend by advertisers, the advertisers will increasingly push for personal information of the users - which, considering the technologies involved, is not very hard to get from the back door.

    I salute the PR team of this company on having managed to get their crap of a product on slashdot.

    1. Re:What's New ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That 99% value is right - imeem.com has a few thousand users of the client application but it has over a million website users - people don't want to download an application to use something.

  68. To his credit... by fishbowl · · Score: 1

    I don't care much for Sen. Stevens' politics, and less for his party, but... The phrase "Bridge to Nowhere" was repeated so many times that people accepted it at face value. But the problem is, the bridge in question was to connect a town to an airport. Granted, it's a small town, and, a small general aviation airport. But, how reasonable is it for someone to sit in a restaurant eating a Pacific Salmon that was flown in that morning from a fishing village, and call that place "nowhere", especially when what they really mean is that the people affected are "nobody." It's not right to do that. Smaller towns and even just small neighborhoods have had bigger construction projects, and people don't go on for years about how *those* places are "nowhwere" or try to make arguments about how the people who live there are somehow not deserving of roads or bridges. But otherwise reasonable people did this against Alaska, just because they wanted to follow a trend of criticizing Sen. Stevens.

    As for the internet being "tubes", if he'd said "pipes" it would have gone over much better. Even network engineers who know better call it "pipes." Since I'm strictly application layer, I'm satisfied with "streams."

    Geez, if I was a senator after being an IT geek for a few decades, would you guys make fun of me for talking about how we need a "fat pipe" for the capitol offices?

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  69. I thought it was a flock of birds by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I thought the Internet was a flock of birds, with or without quality of service enhancements.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  70. Tube worms anyone? by onouno · · Score: 1

    I don't see anything that would prohibit someone from creating a ring of accounts with a huge file going round and round that brings the server down to it's knees. Let's assume they use file signatures to prohibit this. Since the files end up on a windows directory, what's to stop a script kiddie in scripting something that would add a character to the end of the file and change the name and send it on to the ring. How would they protect against that?

  71. OK, where is the .... by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1

    ... large intestine, small intestine analogy ?

    That one gets me every time

    fnord

  72. YouTube...? by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

    From the presentation:

    "Setup YouTube, drop any of the digital content you own in YouTube ... and Tubes will setup a shared network between all the users in YouTube ... you now will have a pipeline for all content in YouTube ..."

    I *know* he says "your tube" every single time, but this is how it comes out of his mouth.. marketing hurts my brain :(

  73. Re:I never understood why he got so much flack any by quantaman · · Score: 1

    I mean, it's a good metaphor. Regardless of the medium (electrical or optical) the internet really kind of IS a series of tubes of varying capacity, interconnecting a bunch of nodes. Well there are two reasons, first there are metaphors already around that do a better job of explaining how the internet works (such as a series of roadways), there's no real need to invent a new metaphor when the point he was trying to make could have been made more accurately using a very popular existing methaphor. That being said tubes isn't a particularly bad metaphor.

    But what was a much bigger cause for ridicule (at least to me) was the rest of the speech which showed he didn't have the slightest clue how the internet works,

    "I just the other day got... an Internet was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday, I got it yesterday. Why? Because it got tangled up with all these things going on the Internet commercially"

    I know people can occationally jumble terms but even my parents wouldn't confuse the terms "Internet" and "email". Not to mention the lateness of the email would of had nothing to do with time it took to travel over the internet (unless the email was several gigs large!).

    The reason he got so much flack was because he headed the committee that controlled the Internet and knew less about the Internet than the average clueless person. The reason so much was made of tubes is because that's how the media works, "tubes" was the easiest way to refer to the incident, and even if it wasn't the most ridiculous part it's easy to make sound ridiculous in a sound byte.
    --
    I stole this Sig
  74. Too many unanswered questions... by cheros · · Score: 1

    As I don't know how it precisely works I'd be reluctant to put it on my machines, however useful it looks (usability is a big key in getting an app accepted). Worse, it's only for one narrow OS (WinXP SP2), and it install .Net code. Not very good credentials for security, so I think I'll give this one a miss..

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  75. Free? by Godji · · Score: 1

    Free? Free as in what? Not that I care, I won't run Windows.

  76. tubes, pipes, netcat by AndyST · · Score: 1

    I once had the idea to do just this - using the tube/pipe metaphor to help non-tech users to share files. Wanted to do it more screen-visual, though: two computers next to each other would have NES Mario kind of green tubes to drag and drop files through that would just pop up on the other side. Including sound effects ;-) I dumped the project because tar -czv files... | netcat -v target port and netcat -lv port | tar -xzv is cooler by order of magnitude.

  77. Hamachi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Interesting, this is like Hamachi on crack.

  78. Marketing Genius! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is marketing genius.

    All you do is tell Windows customers they need to have their pc on a network edge. Then, magically, anyone can share their data immediately.

    Hell, you don't need extra software for that! You need a tonne of software to STOP Windows doing that!

  79. Almost there.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But still an abomination of privacy. Because it requires an account somewhere, there is always the possibility of some network geek being able to monitor and snoop on your shit, or worse, hand over the console to some government agency closely linked to the mafiaa..

  80. How do you explain internet to others ...? by OldHawk777 · · Score: 1

    The internet is a path between two or many points for sharing (email, pictures, video, movies, radio ...) data/information.

    The internet path carries the shared info that is packaged or contained in wrappers called circuits, packets, cells, channels ....

    The internet network is sort of like airlines, telephones, highways/roads ... railroads. We all know where our local airport, train station, garage, home/cell phone ... is located and that everything is connected some by concrete/asphalt, others steel rails, and still others by air (planes fly from city to city).

    The internet allows you to send (or even virtually travel) by sharing a request for data with many, few, or one person/server and then receiving data from the person/server which has the requested information available.

    Telecommunications technology, just like paths, roads, rails, trails, and planes, cars, trains, phones ... provides the internet path for data to get from you at home or work to anyone/anyplace in the world. The connection to an internet path/access (phone, cable, airwaves/wireless ...) is sort of like traveling from LA to DC or NYC to NOLA on roads in a car, but then hopping on a ship or plane to London, then a train to Paris, ....

    It ain't magic ... it is just internet technology the virtual asphalt and rails that gets us (our data at least) too there from here.

    --
    Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
  81. Also, it means in IPR terms by OldHawk777 · · Score: 1

    Maybe they deserve a copyright for the software application on obvious communications network concepts, but it ain't patentable (I hope).

    --
    Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
  82. Colour by matt+me · · Score: 1

    This is the age old problem of explaining colour to a man born blind. Of course, he'd listen to you. Worse is the arrogant seeing man who demands you don't use the words radiation or wavelength.

    The three colours we perceive arise from how our brain interprets the information from three different sets of light-sensitive cone cells in the retina that respond to different ranges of electromagnetic radiation.

    In the dark ages, few people knew *anything*, and it was fucking magic. If you understand something , you are its master. If you use something without understanding, you are a slave to it.

  83. Logging by oftencloudy · · Score: 1

    They are working for the senator, all of the tubes pass directly in front of his desk for viewing of the contents. Then he logs where its going to and who to contact, the RIAA or the MPAA.

    --
    But whatever the object, you must keep him praying to it. To the thing he has made, not to the person that has made him.
  84. Also wrong by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    To better put it in layman's terms the Internet is like a phone network. When you want to reach someone, you dial their number, if you do not know the number use the yellowpages or 411 (in Canada Ontario at least,) they will probably give you the contact information. When you call someone, you have to identify yourself and the other side identifies itself or tells you that whoever you are looking for is unreachable (so there is a protocol handshake.) The only difference is that with the Internet it is possible to send data both ways at the same time, while on the phone you have to wait before the other party finishes talking before you say something, otherwise nobody will understand anything.

  85. shows promise, fails to deliver for now by technopinion · · Score: 1

    Having tried and given up on half a dozen other so-called private file-sharing applications for various reasons, I thought this one might show promise where the others have failed, except for a couple of major (but fixable) issues.

    1) It stores copies of your shared files on your C drive (even ones that you are sharing from your local system), and even though they have a spot in the UI to set where those get stored, it wouldn't let me change it from the default. I don't have space on my C drive to have copies there of all the files I want to share with friends.

    2) I lost my password today. Yeah, I used a password generator program, and forgot to make my own copy of the password. Stipd me. But I managed to find a "lost password" link in the forum on their web site, put in my email address, and it told me that it had reset my password, and I'd get an email shortly. That was 5 hours ago, still no email, and I can't use the application because my old password (which it had stored) is no longer valid.

  86. Its already been done.... by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

    You can see this metaphor explored in the movie Brazil, made in 1985....
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/

    --
    Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

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  87. Is "privacy" the only difference by ianmac47 · · Score: 1

    How is this different from Peer to Peer file sharing like old school Napster or Kazaa? Is it simply that the only "peers" you would share with would be people you actually know?

    Other than pornography, which clearly will infiltrate this sharing system in .0001 seconds, won't the popularity of "The Tubes" be sharing music, movies, and television that is otherwise copyrighted, leading to an eventual shutting down of the network?