'Over 30' Section For Games Stores?

A New York law introduced by Representative Keith Wright seeks just that, a section for gaming stores that keeps 'violent games' under lock and key, and is accessible only to people over 30. The law is one of two poorly-thought pieces of legislation being considered by New York state's legal system. From the 1up article: "The history of the courts striking down such legislation goes just about as far back as politicians who attempt to bolster their own image by capitalizing on the public fear and hysteria over the bogeyman of video gaming. It's interesting to note that recently, courts have begun penalizing entities who purposely waste their time with attempts at passing frivolous and unconstitutional anti-videogame legislation. You'd think might deter motions like [these] somewhat, wouldn't you?" Update: 01/19 04:10 GMT by Z : As ahecht points out in the comments 1up has things wrong here. There is only one bill, and it restricts violent games from being sold to those under 18 only. Line 5 of the bill's text is the section in question.

Comments

I would understand 21, but 30?

[The Real Toad King]

"Yes, you're allowed to get drunk off your ass and purchase hardcore porno flicks, but you can't buy these video games."

Re:I would understand 21, but 30?

[XxtraLarGe]

Or: "You can be sent overseas and kill people, but you can't play Quake 4!"

Re:I would understand 21, but 30?

[Purity Of Essence]

It's not 30, it's 18. The law is to prevent access to violent games by minors and would require clerks to check the ID of anyone who looks under 30, just like a lot of liquor stores do.

Re:I would understand 21, but 30?

[ahecht]

I have read the two bills. The first, the supposed "under 30" bill, is located at:
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A00547&sh=t

This bill reads:

3. Sale or rental of any video game that contains any contents listed in subdivision one of this section, shall be made only to an individual who demonstrates, through (a) a valid driver's license or non-driver`s identification and issued by the commissioner of motor vehicles, the federal government, any united states territory, commonwealth or possession, the District of Columbia, a state government within the United States or a provincial government of the dominion of Canada; or (b) a valid passport issued by the united states government or any other country; or (c) an identification card issued by the united states,indicating that the individual is at least eighteen years of age. Such identification need not be required of any individual who reasonably appears to be at least thirty years of age, provided, however, that such appearance shall not constitute a defense in any proceeding involving sale or rental of any video game, to an individual under eighteen years of age.

The second bill is located at: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02024&sh=t This bill, surprisingly, also reads:

3. Sale or rental of any video game that contains any contents listed in subdivision one of this section, shall be made only to an individual who demonstrates, through (a) a valid driver's license or non-driver`s identification and issued by the commissioner of motor vehicles, the federal government, any united states territory, commonwealth or possession, the District of Columbia, a state government within the United States or a provincial government of the dominion of Canada; or (b) a valid passport issued by the united states government or any other country; or (c) an identification card issued by the united states,indicating that the individual is at least eighteen years of age. Such identification need not be required of any individual who reasonably appears to be at least thirty years of age, provided, however, that such appearance shall not constitute a defense in any proceeding involving sale or rental of any video game, to an individual under eighteen years of age.

In fact, there aren't two separate bills putting video games under "concentrated fire", it's the same bill, but one was the prefiling of the bill on the 3rd, and the second is the actual filing on the 11th.

This is just sloppy reporting.

Re:I would understand 21, but 30?

[Atomic6]

We're talking about virtual violence, which has nothing to do with hurting people. The two are very different and while real violence is a very bad thing, virtual violence is not. People should only be concerned about whether the player is mature enough to understand the difference between real and virtual violence, which many people associate with understanding sex.

Re:I would understand 21, but 30?

[iminplaya]

I think they should make 'em wait until they're 65. And only sell them by perscription, covered by medicare of course.

Re:I would understand 21, but 30?

[bbill78]

Sorry ahect, but these are two separate bills. Note the two differing sponsors, the fact that one of the is scheduled to become law 120 days after being passed, and only one spells the word remainder wrong. They may seem identical, but oftentimes in Albany there are dozens of bills that are even more similar than this.

honestly

[PunkOfLinux]

People mature differently. I know a couple teenagers that are more mature than my 32-year old cousin. Leave it up to parents and oneself to make this decision.

Featuring the new EA Title

[darth_MALL]

GTHOML2007 (Get The Hell Off My Lawn)

Re:Featuring the new EA Title

[IdahoEv]

This would be a hysterical MMORPG. You can either play a leathery old grandpa sitting on his porch swing with a shotgun or a 13-year-old street punk with staples in his ears and a spraypaint can.

Punks gain EXP for tagging houses and retirement centers.

Gramps characters get EXP for filling punks' asses with high velocity rock salt.

I like! Who wants to join the development team?

Re:Featuring the new EA Title

[kd5ujz]

I was thinking more along the lines of, Mortgage 2.0, or SUVTurismo.

There should be a punishment

[gurps_npc]

As in, if a law is passed and rejected by the courts, all the people that voted for it should be forced to watch a one hour video on the constition of the United States, before they are allowed to vote for any other law.

Re:There should be a punishment

[Merusdraconis]

I fear a one vote per person system ala Ancient Greece. Haven't you seen American Idol? Imagine that system applied to something important!

Re:There should be a punishment

[Dagowolf]

The bigger issue here hasn't really been addressed by anyone in the general media or the gaming specific media. The issue is that most of the people in office haven't played many of the modern video games they are demonizing and seeking to legislate. Should laws like this (the correctly cited version that is) pass? I don't see why not, there is no added burden beyond having to look at someone's ID. Besides, the kids will just get their parents to buy the games for them, therefore circumventing the law.

The larger issue of uneducated (or undereducated) lawmakers is where the gaming public needs to focus its energy. The industry is often viewed by the lawmakers and the non-gaming public as attempting to push their agenda of violence for all. The education needs to come from the gaming public. There are books out there that discuss the real impact of gaming on people, and the impact is not as bad as lawmakers and the non-gaming public believes.

In Steven Johnson's book Everything Bad is Good For You he discussed how we as gamers spend so much time "not having fun" while playing a game, how we learn skills beyond that which we would subject ourselves to in the real world. An example Mr. Johnson uses is his nephew who learned the basic premise of industrial economics while playing SimCity. No seven year old would sit through an urban planning or economics class to learn that reduced tax rates spur growth, but that same child happily learns this while playing a game. Granted SimCity isn't going to be regulated as violent anytime soon, but Mr. Johnson doesn't stop with SimCity. He touches on the value of games like Half-Life in building the players ability to track objectives. As the player progresses they develop a sort of running task list of objectives. While a game like PacMan might have a relatively short objective list, a game like Zelda or Half-Life has a large and complex matrix of objectives, some of them might even appear on the surface to conflict with each other.

If Mr. Johnson's book doesn't fully address the world of gaming (which it doesn't as it also looks at TV), James Paul Gee's book What Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy addresses the impact of gaming do a much deeper level. Mr. Gee's book addresses the development of semiotic domains, learning and identity, situated meaning, telling and doing, cultural models, and the social mind through the lens of a converted gamer. Using games such as Pikman, Deus Ex, Tomb Raider, and EverQuest (to name a few) Mr. Gee investigated how playing games helps develop a person's ability to read, understand, and interact both in the virtual world and in the real world.

I mention these two books because they are what is missing from the debate on regulating the gaming industry. Lawmakers look past the good and seek out the bad because it is in their political interest to do this. We as gamers need to make sure that our elected leaders understand that gaming is not a "waste of time," but is a "fun" way for the gamer to learn skills and concepts that can help them in the "real world." Instead of voicing our displeasure concerning these proposed laws only on Slashdot we as gamers need to interact with our elected leaders and make sure they understand that it is not just young boys that play games anymore, but that more and more middle aged men and women are playing games like Quake or Gears of War.

Remember...

[Lord_Slepnir]

It's ok to actively recruit 18 year olds and send them to real violence in Iraq, but it's not ok for a 29 year old to play fake violence.

Also, why 30? Why not 21? 18? It's one thing if the government regulates what can be sold to minors without their parent's permission, but what exactly gives them the right to arbitrarily block adults from something?

Damn hypocrites. Keith Wright, feel free to exercise your right to bite me.

Re:Remember...

[PFI_Optix]

I'm 28, have two kids and a mortgage, and apparently some of our elected officials think that I lack the maturity to purchase my own games. I guess I'll have to find other ways to get my games.

Yo ho, yo ho...

Re:Remember...

[voice_of_all_reason]

The de facto right that was granted when we decided to let them stamp 18 and 21 as the line for adulthood. Would you not agree that prohibition for 19-20 year olds is also arbitrarily blocking adults from something?

Small, dirty room behind the beaded curtain

[Anonymous Coward]

Featuring adult-themed games like:

Prostate Kong
Ligament Hunter
Early Bird Buffet 2142
Need For Slow: Cataract

I will admt that 30 is too old.

[DigitalReverend]

18 is the age of becoming a legal adult, 18 should be the age for everything, games, drinking, voting. An 18 year old can pay taxes, get married, die in war, but can't play a video game or drink? Puhleeese.

Re:I will admt that 30 is too old.

[TheJerg]

It's not the government's responsbility to tell parents what is and isn't acceptable for their kids. All it does is enable parents to take an even smaller role in determining what is and isn't right for their children.

"Over 30"? Uhh, no.

[Anonymous Coward]

Far be it from me to criticize a kneejerk headline on Slashdot (on Slashdot? You jest!), but the bill in question would require stores to CARD people to ensure that they are over EIGHTEEN if they LOOK under the age of 30. If you're between the age of 18 and 29 inclusive, you can still buy the game, just expect to be carded when you do so. This headline has about the same accuracy as a headline that says "You must be over 45 to buy beer."

Re:It's actually not a bad idea

[bunions]

> Parents refuse to take responsibility for what their kids do because it's inconvenient.

When my kid is 28, my responsibility for his behavior is pretty much zero.

I could sort of not mind a law like this too much, but the age can't be 30.

30- America's Army

[RichMan]

So does this senator want to personally pay for all the then wasted resources the army has put into its whizz bang recruitment game:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Army

Or are they going to have to modify the game so nobody gets killed?

The reason for 30

[HappySqurriel]

I suspect the main reason they choose 30 is to ban violent videogames without actually banning violent videogames ...

Even though there are lots of gamers over 30, and the average age of gamers is quite high, the quantity of games played by a gamer decreases with age; as a guess I would say you probably buy/rent twice as many games at 15 as you do at 25, and you buy/rent twice as many games at 25 as you do at 35. If you could successfully prevent 66% of game sales from occuring in the age of the $20 Million game you will successfully prevent any company from attempting to make one of these games (because you simply can not be profitable).

Re:The reason for 30

[Baldrake]

...the quantity of games played by a gamer decreases with age

But aren't the over-30's more likely to pay for said games?

According to the ESA, parents of children under 18 are present 89% of the time when games are purchased or rented. Presumably most of these parents have dinged 30.

But this law is silly for all sorts of other reasons.

This is KIND of an important point, might mod up?

[spun]

Half the fricken' comments in this story wouldn't have been posted if people had happened to notice this point: You have to be over 18, not 30. They will only card you if you look under 30. Very inaccurate summary and headline.

All right!

[Megane]

Now I can look for those Sega Genesis games in one convienent place!

I was expecting the "over 30" section to have the intelligent games, not the violent ones. Sheesh, what a let-down.

And get off of my yard, you punk kids!

it won't pass

[6ame633k]

Hooking their little red wagon to the ridiculous and ARBITRARY "30 years of age" rating will kill this piece legislation for sure. It makes me think it's a ploy for attention, and not a serious bill.

Re:"Over 30"? Uhh, no.

[Brianech]

FTFA:

That's a pretty all-encompassing list -- especially the first and last entries. Rep. Wright's law also mandates the creation of an "Adults Only" section in your local game store, where any game containing the above is kept under lock and key, accessible only to people over 30.

Now if you read into the links in the article you find

Rep. Wright's bill also calls for the equivalent of an "adults only" section for such games. Retailers would be required to check I.D. for buyers who appear to be 30 or under. The bill has been referred to the Assembly's Committee on Consumer Affairs and Protection.
So its not that the summary of the article is incorrect, the writers of the article can't even cite their sources correctly... You can't just read an article these days, you have to read their sources...

Bill actually only bans sales to minors (under 18)

[The Cheez-Czar]

The bill only bans those sales to rate M game to those under 18, and requires if someone looks under 30, that they show proper id to prove they are over 18
1UP misread the article when they summarized it from the original article

From the text of bill:

S 391-Q. SALE OF CERTAIN VIDEO GAMES TO MINORS PROHIBITED. 1. NO PERSON, PARTNERSHIP OR CORPORATION SHALL SELL OR RENT OR OFFER TO SELL OR RENT TO ANY PERSON UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHTEEN YEARS ANY VIDEO GAME THAT HAS A MATURE OR VIOLENT RATING.... SALE OR RENTAL OF ANY VIDEO GAME ... [as described] TO AN INDIVIDUAL WHO DEMONSTRATES, THROUGH [some sort of ID ]... AT LEAST EIGHTEEN YEARS OF AGE. SUCH IDENTIFICATION NEED NOT BE REQUIRED OF ANY INDIVIDUAL WHO REASONABLY APPEARS TO BE AT LEAST THIRTY YEARS OF AGE,...

Mod parent up, +1 insightful.

[Lane.exe]

If what we're worrying about is kiddos getting their hands on a violent game where they take up a gun and kill people, then we should be doubly worried about signing them up for the real thing.

/In life, there's no reset button or checkpoints.

Re:Mod parent up, +1 insightful.

[WobindWonderdog]

In life, there's no reset button or checkpoints. But I can't wait for the expansion pack!

Re:Mod parent up, +1 insightful.

[iminplaya]

Yeah, there's a reset button. You just gotta hit it really hard. Oh, wait, maybe that was the "off" button.

Incorrect article

[TravisW]

According to this link cited in the article, it's not that "violent" games would only be "accessible" to customers over 30, it's that retailers would be required "to check I.D. for buyers" who wanted to browse that section and "who appear to be 30 or under." It's more like the policy of checking IDs when serving alcohol than the nonsense the article and summary suggest.

Incidentally, if they were accurate, it would (comically) mean that someone could run for and win a seat in the House of Representatives and sponsor laws re video game violence before they could browse the proposed section at game stores.

It's apparently too much to expect that when a story is submitted by an editor, he check the primary sources linked in the cited article to support what's obviously an improbable assertion (and in this case, a flatly incorrect one).

Look at the bright side..

[mad_psych0]

At least the violent online games wouldn't be full of 12-year-old griefers =)

The headline tricked me

[snookums]

I thought some game store was introducing an "over 30" section so that grumpy old men like me could go buy our copies of Brain Age and refurb wood-grain Atari 2600s without having to deal with all those pesky kids. I clicked to find the location this trigenarian utopia but alas it was not to be.

Oh, now I'll need a fake

[geekoid]

ID to buy Ultra Porn. -Professor Hubert Farnsworth

I think you guys are missing the big picture

[ArcherB]

If "violent" games can be purchased by anyone of any age, then these do-gooder politicians have an excuse to ban them completely. However, limit these games to 18+ only, and you can make the argument of, "I'm an adult and only adults can purchase these games. Stay the Hell out of my business."

(assuming that the law is 18+, not 30+ as the summary says.)

"Over 30" department with no childlish stuff!

[porttikivi]

I would love the "Over thirty department", if it would have games, that handle relevant modern day psychological and social problems and challenges. That have novel, deep insights into relationships with friends, bosses, parents, spouses, children. I would love games that handle realistic social and political problems in a non-trivial, perhaps thought-provoking ways. Games aware of academic philosohical tradition and debating the limits of our knowledge and the true nature of the world around us without worn-out clichés of pop culture. Games rooted in modern academic understanding of psychology, economics and science.

I would love a single game that is worth playing even if you need to choose between a) working more hours with good extra money, b) spending more time with your beloved kids/spouse, c) exercising/sports d) any other entertainment or e) playing games.

I would love just one game that is not a glorified, graphically decorated 3-D board game/puzzle/Pac-Man with almost non-existent emotional impact, except "I found the secret way/key/lever" or "I was fast/clever enough to manouver my opponent".

Mod parent down: Bullshit.

[Snover]

21 is not the age at which the brain has completed developing. Even if it were, there is no compelling medical reason to prevent the consumption of alcohol for people under the age of 21. Originally, when the law limiting the consumption of alcoholic beverages to people 21 or older was enacted, the voting age was also 21. States tried to reduce the drinking age during the 70s and 80s, but since the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1984, a state not enforcing the minimum drinking age of 21 would be subjected to a ten percent decrease in its annual federal highway apportionment. Overview of Underage Drinking Policy in the United States.

Huh?

[davmoo]

You mean to tell me that some 18 year old guy or girl can sign up in the military to be sent off to fight and die in a war for Darth Bush, but they can't buy a game? I can believe there is a law proposing that, because only a legislator could come up with something that fucking stupid.

TAG ARTICLE falsesummary

[Millenniumman]

Wow, this summary is probably the worst I have ever seen. Blatantly untrue.

Please, tag this article 'falsearticle' .