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Dealing w/ Relocation Package Bait and Switch?
An anonymous reader asks: "I got a R&D job offer with a large company in Philadelphia area last week. It includes a relocation package that they told me was standard for my position. After I accepted the offer and made plans to terminate my current job, the recruiter handed me off to their relocation department, where I was told that my relocation package is significantly less than what I was promised. The relocation manager tells me that whenever there is conflict between their relocation policy and the offer, their internal relocation policy supersedes. Is this type of switch-and-bait common practice in corporate America? If you have gone through this nightmare before, any advice on how to respond to it?"
what anyone else would do, and post the name of the company on Slashdot.
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I think you're screwed.
http://packetnexus.com
I would seriously consider not taking the job if they don't try to fix it quickly. If they're going to screw you over before you've even started, imagine what they'll do once you're there.
FWIW, I took a job cross country about a year and a half ago that included a relocation package. They handled it very professionally, and followed through with everything that they had promised. So far, it's been a good company to work for.
I've never run into a problem like that. However, if I were in a situation like that and had already quit my previous position, I would probably
1) take the job
2) start job-hunting immediately
3) see if this was an anomaly or business-as-usual for a company without a moral compass.
If it's business-as-usual I'd jump ship as soon as I got another job.
If it's an anomaly I'd work from within to make sure this never happened to anyone else.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Go ask a lawyer.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Why would you trust a company that makes these opening moves? My take on it is that use as a selection method and what they most need is sheeple that do not squeal too hard when they get done in the *rse. By screwing them even before they take the job they are weeding out theones that would. But be shure to tell the recruiter that this is why you are declining his offer. If it was an honest mistake he should be able to get it fixed, otherwise he will just don't care.
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
Before you peg yourself as someone who's unreasonable to work with --
Contact the person who originally told you about the relocation package, and tell them that the 'Relocation Manager' isn't offering the same thing. Ask them to deal with the issue, or make a counter offer and tell them what you're willing to take in exchange for the lower package (eg, higher pay, alternative benefits).
I've gotten the bait & switch on jobs before (my second day on the job, job responsibilities changed dramatically)-- my suggestion is deal with it as soon as possible, but don't become adversarial with the HR department -- have the person who hired you deal with them.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
There's that, but an earlier step that's also missing in almost all of these questions is -- did you ask anyone before flying off the handle and coming here? In this case, did you go back to the recruiter and ask him what's going on and whether he can untangle it?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Burn the building down.
Call the VP or Human Resources and tell him what happened. Chances are he'll be furious that this is happening and straighten out the recruiter or whomever gave you the wrong information. He'll probably also be able to arrange an exception to give you what you expected, or at least a compromise. No large company would do this as a matter of policy. No one wants employees who feel cheated; they don't work hard and might steal from the company.
Even if you have it in writing, this first taste of the job is already quite sour. If you do have it in writing, do you really want to work for this company?
If you don't have it in writing, talk to the person that extended you the original offer. Depending on what they do, you may or may not decide to take it/stay. Make sure whatever you agree to is in writing. Basically, any company that did something like this would be way in the hole and would have to work to keep any reasonable person.
If you haven't quit your old job, or you gave notice but haven't left and they're really sorry to see you go, indicate you might be interested in staying. This would involve playing the "what can you do for me" game. You certainly don't want to be honest about why you're reconsidering. Say something to your boss along the lines of "I would have liked to have seen project X to completion. It is going to be great!" or something like that. Perhaps they can sweeten your current job and you can both save face and your sanity by "accepting" the offer.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
First, you describe it as a 'nightmare'. Is this a deal-breaker, or not, for you?
If it's not, and you'd honestly take the job even without the better relocation package, then your goal is just to try to negotiate, right?
If it IS a DEFINITE deal-breaker, call them up and tell them that, bluntly but softly: "I'm sorry, but that's what I was promised. I don't want to cause any trouble, but for me right now this is definitely a deal-breaker. Please talk to whoever you need to talk to," get info on how long it will take them to make a decision and arrange to call back, and then call back.
If it's not a definite deal-breaker but you want to negotiate, the procedure is the same, but use softer wording.
"Bob, you told me that there was [blah] to help me get there and get going, and they're telling me [blahrg]. I'm just really concerned, and I wanted to let you know where I'm at with this. I'm really excited about coming on board with you guys, and I'm really looking forward to it, but my situation right now is that without an adequate relocation package like the one you described, it just might not make sense for either of us."
Also, mention to them that there are two ways that this is bad -- first, that the financial hit you'd take from the lower relocation package is enough to make taking the position a lot less attractive. But second, that taking that hit -- a substantial financial penalty -- is enough of a negative for you that it just might not make sense to start off what you *had* hoped would be a long and mutually rewarding career by being asked to take a big financial penalty.
You didn't quit your job yet, right? You haven't yet taken a dump on your supervisor's desk, right? So you can survive. If your prospective new bosses react to these kinds of reasonable concerns unreasonably, you're better off where you are, so expressing your concerns can only help you.
That while many posting here think the company is screwing this person, maybe the fault really lies in the hiring manager. Quite often the hiring manager may make promises or say things they don't have a clue about.
In any of these questions there are not enough facts to really figure out what happened. Yes, while this person accepting the new job may get screwed don't jump to the conclusion that the company is backstabbing and that the new employee should quit. This just might be some dumb manager who doesn't have a clue--or maybe a smart manager who didn't get the email on what the standard relocation package is now. There is way too much missing information.
Legally, there may or may not be a contract. You can have a verbal contract which is binding, however, the hard part is proving the existence and details of the contract. Also, the newly hired employee might have a claim for induced reliance--the company induced him to quit his or her old job (maybe, because we really don't know when things happened) and because of that promise of relocation money he is out of a job. There is a potential claim here, but there is so much more that is needed before the new employee heads off to court.
Like someone pointed out he should go back to the hiring manager and find out if they can do anything. But the real lesson is that you don't quit your old job before you have all the details of the new job worked out first.
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Take the job, learn all of their internal systems and processes, steal them blind. Bonus points if you can frame the guy who hired you.
If you get caught, insist on a management position. You'll likely get it.
Run, don't walk, out the door.
This kind of bullshit is endemic to a company, if you have to deal with it here, you'll have to deal with it once you get there and start working. This is how you end up stuck in a job you hate, and stuck in the city they moved you to.
From a contract point of view, his claim is utterly false. It dosen't matter if it's not in writing, since you relied on the promise, it was reasonably foreseeable that you would do so, and this has harmed you - but that means suing your employer. That never ends well.
Seriously, don't work for these people.
-GiH
I will tell you a related story. I was a consultant on an open-ended contract for 2.5 years. The company re-organized and I was given less than two weeks to either take a 30% pay cut or leave. I immediately started looking for other work, but stuck around for a couple of months while I found a new position. The one thing I did do was to calmly, rationally let everyone that was in a similar position know what had happened. After I left, they gave a whole group of consultants (about 20 people) the same ultimatum. Since they were prepared for the new offer from my story, all of them resigned, simultaneously. The company back-pedaled on the ultimatum and allowed those consultants to stay on under their current terms. It was still detrimental to the company, however, because 10 of the 20 left anyway.
Several of those 20 people thanked me for sharing my troubles because they were better prepared. The details of your experience may help someone else not make the same mistake later. It may even make the business involved change their practices.
Still, with a plan, you only get the best you can imagine. I'd always hoped for something better than that. -CP
Uh, did everyone forget Hanlon's Razor?
Make a polite phone call to the person who made the original offer and tell them what happened. Maybe they can straighten things out. If they can't fix it, or they don't admit they promised it, you have learned something useful about a possible future employer with no risk to yourself or reputation.
-Jeff
That you quit. Right now. They may promise you more money, more women, more booze, anything to make you accept the offer while look for someone else that is "less trouble". Trust me, you don't want to work for them. If they screw you around before you even start, then they will be even worse when you actually turn up. You will probably be miserable there anyway. If you are still unsure what to do, go out for a beer with you new co-workers. After a few drinks, you will be in a much better position to gauge the mood of the workforce. Something tells me it won't be positive.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Step 1. Call your new boss and tell him: 1. The company is refusing to honor the terms of the offer, and 2. If the company does not honor the terms of the offer, your acceptance is rescinded. Wait 48 hours and find out if he has good news for you.
Step 2. Call the HR Director, tell him you're hopping mad and you expect him to honor the relocation terms specified in the job offer. Wait 24 hours and spend the time tracking down the phone number of the relevant office at the state corporation commission for the state in which you were to have worked. Call and get the name of an actual case worker there. If the HR Director does not have good news, advise him that you have spoken with so-and-so at the state corporation commission and intend to file a fraud complaint.
Step 3. Beg your current boss to keep you on for a while. You'll still have to find a new job pronto but at least you'll keep the paychecks coming for a while.
Step 4. Call your would-be boss again. Advise him that you rescind your acceptance of the offer due to fraud on the part of the HR department.
Step 5. Spend $200 with a lawyer to see if you are entitled to any damages as a result of the company's fraud.
Step 6. Post a hate-page on the web, but stick to the straight facts so they can't sue you for libel. Step 6 is optional but it feels so good.
Note that if they refuse to honor the terms of the offer they made you, the job is lost. I know you don't want to give up on it but do yourself a favor: walk away. If they'll screw you this blatently at the front end, they'll screw you far worse down the line when you're already moved.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
In Delaware at least, a verbal contract is binding. Legally, the company must honor it.
The problem is that you have to prove the contract was made, and without a written copy that can be difficult.
About five years ago I actually got a relocation package that was BETTER than offered.
I accepted a promotion with the company I had been with for two years, but in a different city. They offered full moving expenses, days off and travel expenses to look for a place to live, etc.
Turns out that my wife and I decided to split at that time. Since she got the majority of the household goods (which was totally okay with me), the company agreed to move her to a town that was actually 100 miles further away than my destination, AND reimbursed me for a self-move rental truck for my stuff.
While the split (and subsequent divorce) were tough, my company's compassionate attitude made an unpleasant experience much less stressful.
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
Listen, if they're screwing you before your first day of work, they're going to continue screwing you once they get you into the job.
Unemployment does suck, but relocating to a new city with no support system (family, friends, etc.) and into a job where they are doing this kind of thing the first day sucks more. You think you're going to have any kind of job security there?
-j
If the company does react that way, then he is better off not working for them.
I know I may come across casual and naive, but years of experience working in and with companies has told me that if they are screwing you at day 0, then every day from that point forward will be misery. In a way, your cynicism is well placed - something is wrong here. But to roll over and present your genitalia without stating something just screws you in the long run. Better to have a clear contract upfront and know where the lines are, instead of having some bureaucrat use their discretion.
The thing is, there are people and places that are fully above-board. Even in corporate America. Even corporations. The problem is when people use their psychological contracts instead of real contracts. Business is business,and you should never expect more than a written contract asserts. If all you have is someone's word, you don't have anything. If their word is truly good, they won't have a problem writing it down.
I'm surprised you're even bothering to ask advice about this situation--it seems like a no-brainer to me.
Moving across the country to accept a new job involves significant risk. You are taking a leap into the unknown. You might decide that you really hate your new location, or that you can't find a place to live at a price you can afford. You might find that the job is not to your liking, that your boss is an abusive jerk, or any of a long list of other possible negatives. Plus there is the possibility of financial loss, and the certainty of high stress involved in making any geographical move. If you have a family, the risks and stress become much greater.
The only factor to counterbalance all these negatives is your faith in your new employer: you are trusting them to deliver on the promises they made to you with respect to your job duties and working conditions--and with helping to compensate you for the financial cost of moving, as was promised to you.
The key word here is trust. Sometimes, you just have to go with your gut instincts, and trust people. But trusting people whose actions show a lack of good faith is a dumb thing to do; it's like asking to be abused.
It may be that the headhunter knowingly made false promises to you so that he could get his commission. But the headhunter represents the employer, not you--he is their agent. Depending on exactly what happened, the employer may very well have a moral obligation to keep the headhunter's promise to you--but even that isn't the heart of the issue. The bottom line is this: if these people really wanted to hire you, then they would go out of their way to make you happy, to make you feel good about taking this job. They haven't done that, have they?
As for legalities, like "get it in writing, stupid", they're irrelevant in a situation like this. A deal is a deal, whether it's written on paper or spoken. If the other party breaks the deal before you've made any real investment in it, walk away. It really doesn't matter if the law is on your side or not. The law won't buy back wasted time, suffering or broken marriages. This is not a legal matter, it's a matter of common sense.
I hope you don't feel any moral obligation to take this job. You have been released from any such obligation by their show of bad faith. Write a letter to the employer's HR department telling them politely that you are refusing their job offer and why; be sure to cc it to the CEO and the headhunter.
I hope you haven't already given notice to your present employer. If you have, do anything you must to get them to let you stay. Chances are that you are a valuable employee, and they will be glad you're not leaving.
Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
It was an IT services company. Except I was already at the job site when they pulled their magic now you see it, now you don't act. But it was my mistake because they told me they would "help" with relocation. Turned out their definition of help and mine were quite different. That was the same job the customer described the "intent" of making the job permanent. In this case the road to a hellish job in a hell hole of a town was paved with helpful good intentions.
The others telling you this is a big, red flag are absolutely correct. If it starts out bad, there's nowhere to go but down, especially if this is a company renting you to another company. You will have endless niggling disagreements because they're squeezing you on one side and the customer on the other. The customer will always be expecting you to pay the tab, and in disagreements with your employer the policy will always be on their side. Besides, it's a cheap chisel and if you roll over on this they're going to keep chipping away at your hide.
Go back to your current employer, tell them you changed your mind and wanted to give them first chance before putting them through the expense of finding someone new and yourself through the expense of finding another job.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
This is such an easy solution
1) Talk to your recruiter and find out what is happening. This could just be left hand doing something that right hand does not know about. If you don't get this resolved how you want it to be resolved, don't take the job. There is plenty of work out there for people who want to work and have skills. Recruiters and HR in general hate it when this happens. When Amazon.com moved me and the moving company screwed up and I asked my HR rep what to do. They made me sit down and tell them everything about the move so they could contact the moving company and get it resolved. To quote them, "If they screw up your move, we're not happy because you are not happy and we also paid them."
2) Do not act on or believe anything that anyone is saying until you have the written contract to sign. Read it, understand it, don't quit your job until you have signed this and sent it back and the recruiter says they have it. Make it clear that you will not take the job until you get the paper work. Make a copy of everything for your records.
3) If they still screw you over, then you don't have to stay there. You may just work one year and then find another job. The company will lose in the long run because they will not be able to hold top talent. Your life does not begin nor end with a job. Trust me, this will hurt the company in the long run much more than it hurts you.
4) Move on with your life no matter what happens. If you get screwed over, then just suck it up and move on. Don't be bitter and don't hold a grudge (Although, you might suggest to others in the industry not to work there). Just move on with your life and enjoy it.
Linux O Muerte!
Yes, it does reflect badly on them. In fact, it's a huge warning sign. If this company treats prospective employees this way, imagine how crappy it will be to work there.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
... especially if you were wise enough to insist on the relo package details in the written job offer. Remember, if it's not in writing, it's not yours.
Your hiring manager is your champion. They are the one that justified your extravagant salary to the higher-ups. They are the one that made HR find you. They are the one that wants you and not those other scrubs that applied and even interviewed. They know the ins and outs of their company and can get the right wheels greased in seconds. Just give them a call and tell them there is a snag on their end that you would appreciate some help with.
Be reasonable, but firm and insist that they correct this and stick to the agreement or you are going to be in a very awkward position. While already quitting your current job may make it feel like you've lost leverage, you are still in a strong position because you haven't started working with the new company yet--they don't want to lose you! Especially over something they already said you could have.
As a regular hiring manager, I've seen my share of great candidates get lost because of HR's mistakes. One of my peers lost a great candidate because HR stood too firm on the salary offer, when he called the candidate to find out what happened he discovered that they guy only needed $2K more to say yes!! For some reason, HR failed to discover this and had too much ego to make the deal happen, sending this hiring manager back into the process over $2K.
Call your new boss, he'll sort it out. If he doesn't, walk--you didn't want to move anyway.
These opinions guaranteed or your money back.
after getting sued for defamation".
It's only defamation if it's a lie. And the plaintiff has to prove the person is knowingly telling a lie, which isn't easy otherwise all those weekly rags that publish dirt on celebrities would be out of business.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I tried that and it didn't work. My new boss was a dick who was on my case all the live long day. (when he wasn't downloading pr0n or surfing slashdot)
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Promissary Estoppel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel
Don't put up with that crap. When you get that vascillating prick on the phone and he spews superseding reprioritization of denatured pre-hire compensation, you can say, "Well, that is very interesting to know. Will you please communicate to the hiring manager that I can no longer accept the position because you, Mr. HR Monkey, saw fit to breach good faith and contradict the offer that the manager made and reduced the relocation package that I was relying upon in making the decision to sell my home and relocate to your state? Yes, please do go ahead and explain that to him. I'll let him know to expect your call. Good day."
Then you hang up, and shit gets fixed.
Pah, another amateur lawyer. Legally, firing somebody is not that simple. Yeah, technically you can fire folks for any number of reasons. In the real business world, firing people is not something you do if you can avoid it. For one thing, it's is expensive, because you need to document that you did everything correctly. If you don't document a termination carefully, you could end up getting in legal trouble for what someone claims you did, and have no proof that you acted correctly.
(I'm actually speaking from personal experience, and no, I'm not going to share the details.)
The fact is, this dude's problem is not "bait and switch". That's when somebody knowingly makes a substitution. No sane manager is going to start a new hire out by screwing him: it's formula for disaster. What obviously happened was the manager making promises that the HR department doesn't feel bound to honor. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing — not an uncommon thing in large organizations.
Confrontation is a lose-lose here. If the potential employee goes in thinking, "They're out to screw me!" it's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy: either he'll walk away from a job he disrupted his life to take, or he'll start a new job totally pissed off at the people he works for (not a formula for professional success!). For their part, the company has invested a lot of effort into hiring this guy, and made business plans on the assumption he was going to start work. They have a vested interest in making him happy, even if they show the usual bureaucratic stupidity in fulfilling their own interests.
So forget about who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. The dude needs to express his disappointment, respectfully but firmly, to both the HR bureaucrats and the manager that made him the negated offer. Everybody here has motivation to work out a comprimise; nobody should waste time being self-righteous.