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Quantum Computer Demoed, Plays Sudoku

prostoalex writes "Canadian company D-Wave Systems is getting some technology press buzz after successfully demonstrating their quantum computer (discussed here earlier) that the company plans to rent out. Scientific American has a more technical description of how the quantum computer works, as well as possible areas of application: 'The quantum computer was given three problems to solve: searching for molecular structures that match a target molecule, creating a complicated seating plan, and filling in Sudoku puzzles.' Another attendee provides some videos from the demo." Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?

309 comments

  1. Traveling Salesman by Short+Circuit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Does this mean we'll be able to solve the Traveling Salesman problem soon? That would lead to a revolution in efficiency of everything from travel to mass transit to shipping.

    I imagine the USPS and other shipping organizations will be the first to buy commercial versions of these.

    1. Re:Traveling Salesman by RailGunner · · Score: 1, Redundant

      That would lead to a revolution in efficiency of everything from travel to mass transit to shipping.

      Certainly a better example than a Sudoku solver... all a Sudoku puzzle is, at it's core, is a depth first search. You can speed up the algorithm with Dancing Links, but even on a moderately fast PC a DFS is fast enough to get a solution to a Sudoku puzzle in the blink of an eye.

    2. Re:Traveling Salesman by TorKlingberg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are fast and almost-exact algorithms for Traveling Salesman problem that are good enough for practical purposes.

    3. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you've missed the point of the Traveling Salesman problem. It's a theoretical mathematical exercise, not a practical issue in mass transit or shipping. The important bit is that we could solve all sorts of other, more interesting problems if we could solve that one.

    4. Re:Traveling Salesman by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nobody is going to use Travelling Salesman in the real world to plan journeys. You can already quickly run an algorithm which will get you a journey plan that's maybe 99% as good as the optimum. Besides, real things (even salesmen) don't just have to travel in straight lines between points in space. There are other factors like lunch breaks and the location of good restaurants, which the problem doesn't account for.

      Travelling Salesman is NP-hard, which means (I think) that if you find a polynomial time algorithm for it, any problem in NP can be done in polynomial time (hence P=NP). But I believe that even this quantum computer can't calculate TSP in polynomial time, except for instances small enough to fit inside the 16-qubit memory. Can anyone comment on this? By contrast, a conventional computer can always calculate TSP in the same time complexity (exponential time) no matter how large the input - you just have to hook up enough memory.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    5. Re:Traveling Salesman by Zdzicho00 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think that it will solve the Traveling Salesman problem of course (find best possible path for salesman).
      Unfortunately it shall to be run by salesman before every travel - so it isn't very useful.

      /Z
    6. Re:Traveling Salesman by gazbo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even if you could solve TSP in polynomial time on a quantum computer, it still wouldn't show that P=NP as the machine would be nondeterministic. The goal of quantum computers is to sidestep the NP issue, not reduce it to P.

    7. Re:Traveling Salesman by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately it shall to be run by salesman before every travel - so it isn't very useful. My understanding of quantum computers is certainly limited, but the only inherent time limitation I know of involves loading all possible solutions into the computer before telling the computer to select the best solution. If one can find a way to re-use the solution set, that problem goes away.
    8. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are pretty much correct--traveling salesman is NP-hard and most theorists believe that BQP, the class of problems efficiently solvable by a quantum computer in polynomial time, is strictly smaller than NP (and therefore contains no NP-complete problems). This is, of course, not shown--for all we know, it could even be strictly bigger than NP. The evidence is that the only two problems quantum computers can solve in polytime right now that a turing machine can't are integer factorization and discrete log, neither of which is believed to be NP-hard.

      BTW, of course a problem instance must fit in memory--but the idea is that we should be able to build a 1000 qubit computer, while going through 2^1000 possibilities to brute-force a problem of size 1000 is intractable. But with our knowledge now, even if you fit a traveling salesman instance, the quantum computer wouldn't know what to do with it.

      As GP pointed out, we do have excellent approximations for TSP and most practical problems--the issue is mathematical--that we don't have algorithms that can guarantee the absolute best solution. The one place quantum computers are potentially useful is crypto--nearly all of which revolves around the hardness of factoring and discrete logs (which I think is a very strange coincidence, if it is one).

    9. Re:Traveling Salesman by KurtP · · Score: 1

      Actually, to be quite clear, the "Travelling Salesman" problem is one of traversing an arbitrary graph, which can indeed include information representing non-straight distances and preferred edges where the "good lunch places" can be found. It's a very general optimization problem, and has been effectively solved for practial use for a number of years, using the "simulated annealing" method.

    10. Re:Traveling Salesman by georgep77 · · Score: 1

      Actually there are many variations on the Traveling Salesman that an optimal solution is required for. In a previous life I worked on some software for laying out circuit boards, massive circuit boards. In fact the speed of the production line was limited by how long it would take the robots to place everything on the board. We managed to have a fairly optimal solution by dividing up the card into smaller regions (bands) and solving each one individually. The less distance the robot would traverse the better, thus the traveling salesman.

      Cheers,
            _GP_

    11. Re:Traveling Salesman by rbarreira · · Score: 1

      all a Sudoku puzzle is, at it's core, is a depth first search.


      So is the travelling salesman problem, if you want to define it that way.
      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    12. Re:Traveling Salesman by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 5, Informative

      all a Sudoku puzzle is, at it's core, is a depth first search. Which is not an algorithm that runs in polynomial time. It is a DFS of all (legal, remaining) permutations, which is an exponential number.

      even on a moderately fast PC a DFS is fast enough to get a solution to a Sudoku puzzle in the blink of an eye. Regardless of how easy a 9x9 grid seems, Sudoku is still at its core an NP Complete (PDF warning) problem. Why is it therefore any less valid than any other NP complete problem? Travelling Salesman is also pretty easy with less than 10 nodes... likewise you can feasibly crack any encryption scheme by brute-force if you constrain it to have a tiny key size. It's all about scale.

      The beauty is, if you solve any NPC problem you solve them all, by definition. So, Mr. Smarty Pants, if your Sudoku solver is good enough to solve any grid in polynomial time, please show the rest of us, as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date.

      Yeah, I didn't think so.
    13. Re:Traveling Salesman by khallow · · Score: 1

      But an optimal solution is not required in the routing problem you cite. After all, you went for "fairly optimal" rather than optimal because at some point, the cost of computing time required (assuming generously that the problem is solvable in our universe, it doesn't take much for a routing problem to pass that threshhold) exceeds the benefit to be gained.

    14. Re:Traveling Salesman by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Currently the best solutions for TSP are based on parallel solutions, for which there is no shortage of hardware. Granted large parallel systems are not cheap (I'm not referring to little 4- and 8-way systems), but they do exist and are heavily used by researchers that require such technology.

      Distributed parallel clusters such as the approach used by the SETI "screen saver" also work for such classes of problems. Each node computes just one possible solution, but tens of thousands of nodes chew at solutions in parallel.

      The "research" of 70,000 node botnets and such are actually probably more applicable to real-world solutions at this point in time than quantum computing. Not to denigrate the work that is being done, but even they readily admit that even a 1,000 qbit processor won't be any faster than "regular" hardware -- yet. That's the whole point of prototyping -- the first steps towards future goals, when "yet" becomes "now".

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    15. Re:Traveling Salesman by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      I have no doubt that UPS, the company that trains their drivers to turn the ignition key with one hand and buckle up with the other simultaneously, TO SAVE TIME, is interested in improving solutions to the traveling salesman problem. They're probably pretty close, but I bet they'd love another 1 percent improvement in performance. I don't know whether UPS's problem can be stated well enough to make quantum computers speed it up any, but the TSP doesn't require straight lines in space, just estimated times between destinations (which is another problem UPS should be interested in).

      I'm not sure what your point about conventional computers calculating TSP meant; time complexity is a way of describing how runtime grows with input size. The time complexity remains the same, but it's still taking exponetially more time to run as the input increases in size. This argument that you just need to hook up more memory applies equally to quantum computers -- if you can't represent the problem in the space you have, theres no way you can solve it like that either. A practical limitation, but one that could be reduced in say, 50 years.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    16. Re:Traveling Salesman by ScottSCY · · Score: 1

      The beauty is, if you solve any NPC problem you solve them all, by definition. So, Mr. Smarty Pants, if your Sudoku solver is good enough to solve any grid in polynomial time, please show the rest of us, as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date.

      I think you're missing the point of the previous poster. I think (hope) he/she meant that a sudoku solver can solve any sudoku puzzle that is a size a human might try relatively fast. I think I wrote a pretty rudamentary one that solved 9x9 in 1 second and 16x16 in a few seconds or something like that. Unfortunately, as the size of the puzzle increases to a level above what a human would ever try the sudoku solver would take a long, long time.

      as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date.

      One-time pad as well? ;-)

    17. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      We already have a solution to the Travelling Salesman Problem. Do you really think NP-complete problems are so hard and mystical that we can't currently run computers to solve them? Yes, the best (100% accurate) solutions we have currently increase the execution time exponentially with the problem size. So what?

      NP-complete != impossible. NP-complete != slow. NP-complete = slow for big problems. A few years ago I was playing around with NP-completeness in my spare time. Using GNU Guile (hint: this was not a blazingly fast implementation), I was able to solve a typical n=1000 subset sum instance in under a minute on commodity hardware.

      With a clever heuristic or two, and a clever programmer, and a clever optimizing compiler, I wouldn't be surprised if USPS could solve Travelling Salesman Problems where the number of nodes is on the order of magnitude of 10000, without overly exorbitant hardware costs. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think USPS has more than 10000 stops on most of its shipping routes.

      If USPS wanted to use the Travelling Salesman Problem, they would be using it already. Using a quantum computer would do nothing for them but add headaches and cost. NP-complete problems are only hard when you're looking at big data sets, and I just don't think USPS making shipping routes would fall into that category.

    18. Re:Traveling Salesman by Surt · · Score: 1

      Sudoku is less valid than another NP problem precisely because it is quickly solvable with a conventional computer, and therefore subject to fraud. I happen to have built a quantum computer in my garage. I'll be happy to prove that to you by solving any sudoku you send me in less than an hour.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    19. Re:Traveling Salesman by amper · · Score: 3, Funny

      Besides, real things (even salesmen) don't just have to travel in straight lines between points in space. There are other factors like lunch breaks and the location of good restaurants, which the problem doesn't account for.

      Which, of course, clearly demonstrates the utility of the Bistro Drive for all Traveling Salesmen.

    20. Re:Traveling Salesman by feepness · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, as the size of the puzzle increases to a level above what a human would ever try the sudoku solver would take a long, long time.

      And they didn't say the size of the puzzle they solved! So the demonstration could be: look, solves 9x9 *blink* done. Ok, 100x100 *blink* done.

    21. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Challenge accepted. I will have a 1,000,000 x 1,000,000 sudoku problem available for your quantum computer soon. Care to place a wager on this before I present you with the grid?

    22. Re:Traveling Salesman by u8i9o0 · · Score: 1

      The beauty is, if you solve any NPC problem you solve them all, by definition. So, Mr. Smarty Pants, if your Sudoku solver is good enough to solve any grid in polynomial time, please show the rest of us, as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date.
      Don't I know it. The problems usually boil down to either delivery missions or kill missions. So yeah, once you figure that out then you've got them all figured out. I've never heard of a Sudoku trainer, though.

      We're talking about MMOGs, right? :)
      --
      This is not my sig
    23. Re:Traveling Salesman by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I was taking Steven Cook's Complexity Theory class at UofT and when we were given the TSP I immediately saw a solution reduced into Dijkstra's algorithm. I don't think anyone in the class actually followed, the prof said that it can probably work. I never dealt with it again, but that was the reason I remember that class.

    24. Re:Traveling Salesman by steveo777 · · Score: 1
      What your pp is talking about is representing computations/steps in Big O notation. Read up. Examine an algorithm and you'll know how 'long' it takes it to run. Ultimately you would want a Big O of n^x (where x is a constant). Rather than x^n.

      I never got a full grasp on Big O representation (forming the equations with a given algorithm), which was partially because my prof at the time was testing his new Discrete Math book on us. But I do understand how to read it, and what is preferable.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    25. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no doubt that UPS, the company that trains their drivers to turn the ignition key with one hand and buckle up with the other simultaneously, TO SAVE TIME, is interested in improving solutions to the traveling salesman problem.

      How many locations is a UPS driver going to visit during a shift? Would it be a small enough number to simply calculate all the permuations and select the shortest route?

    26. Re:Traveling Salesman by fishbowl · · Score: 3, Funny

      "I was taking Steven Cook's Complexity Theory class at UofT and when we were given the TSP I immediately saw a solution reduced into Dijkstra's algorithm. I don't think anyone in the class actually followed, the prof said that it can probably work. I never dealt with it again, but that was the reason I remember that class."

      Did you at least try to scribble it in the margin of your book?

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    27. Re:Traveling Salesman by nasch · · Score: 5, Funny

      So, Mr. Smarty Pants, if your Sudoku solver is good enough to solve any grid in polynomial time, please show the rest of us, as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date.
      As the CS gangsta rapper MC++ put it, "if we could factor large composites in poly time, we'd have enough money to not have to rhyme."
    28. Re:Traveling Salesman by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      A UPS Van driver usually has about 100 packages when it leaves, I'd guess. Even 100 might sound small if you consider multiple packages for a given destination and relatively fast computers. But remember that there's a ton of these vans per distribution center making runs, and all permutations is n! (There are faster algorithms for optimal TPS solutions, but they're still exponential).

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    29. Re:Traveling Salesman by TooFarGone · · Score: 1

      "There are other factors like lunch breaks and the location of good restaurants, which the problem doesn't account for."

      lunchbreaks...good restaurants....the best lonely housewives...

    30. Re:Traveling Salesman by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Oh c'mon, HHGTG references should automatically get modded +5 funny by system.

      I wonder why I never seem to get mod points any more?

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    31. Re:Traveling Salesman by ebvwfbw · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Nobody is going to use Travelling Salesman in the real world to plan journeys.

      Sure they do. School systems do this for bus routes. Some counties used to pay good money for that. For one school system I worked with it saved nearly 1 million in gasoline for the year and that school system wasn't that large and back then gasoline wasn't that expensive like it is now. The next year I suggested changing school start times to optimize it even further. They saved an additional 3 million that year and eliminated a number of busses entirely. This is just one example.

      BTW, even though they don't travel in straight lines in practice, that doesn't matter. Simply consider the mileage as a line. After all they are confined to the road unless they have off-road capabilities.

      Even the average Joe often does the TSP, probably without realizing it. When you have a number of places to go, do you just go to whichever first or do you plan your journey to optimize your time? Almost everyone I know figures this out before they leave. Sometimes if there is a group of us, I have even observed discussions on which routes and order would be best.

    32. Re:Traveling Salesman by iendedi · · Score: 1

      "all a Sudoku puzzle is, at it's core, is a depth first search."
      Which is not an algorithm that runs in polynomial time.
      Actually, you can do a depth first search in linear time. Yes, I understand that the Sudoku problem is actually nonlinear, but DFS is not, it is linear.
      --

      It is your personal duty to fight for what is right on a daily basis. Ignoring injustice is identical to approving
    33. Re:Traveling Salesman by nuzak · · Score: 1

      Welcome to coffee talk, I'll give you a topic: The traveling salesman problem is neither about traveling, nor salesmen. Discuss.

      It's about optimal coverage of a weighted graph. In fact "optimal coverage/filling/allocation" problems all tend to be the same NP-complete problem -- that's why a solution for one works for all of them.

      Optimum register allocation, for example, is NP-complete.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    34. Re:Traveling Salesman by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      all a Sudoku puzzle is, at it's core, is a depth first search

      For a laugh, I once formulated sudoku solving as an 9x9x9 integer problem, (well, boolean). Of course, branch&bound is essentially a search in a tree, too, though I don't think you need to branch many times for this type of problems. No surprise, it was dog slow, taking a second to solve a soduku problem :o)

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    35. Re:Traveling Salesman by danielaborg · · Score: 1

      I don't think you belong here.

    36. Re:Traveling Salesman by tbo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Disclaimer: I am a physicist who works on quantum computing and also has a computer science background

      Nobody is going to use Travelling Salesman in the real world to plan journeys. You can already quickly run an algorithm which will get you a journey plan that's maybe 99% as good as the optimum.

      Actually, I think there is a theorem that finding an algorithm that efficiently produces highly-accurate approximate solutions to arbitrary problems in NP-hard is about as hard solving NP-complete problems exactly.

      All this aside, it's worth noting that D-Wave is only claiming to provide a square-root speed-up for NP-complete problems, and there is some doubt as to whether they can even deliver that, as they scale up to larger numbers of quantum computers. While it's technically possible that P=NP, most people believe P!=NP, and it seems almost as likely that BQP != NP (BQP is the class of problems efficiently solvable with a quantum computer).

      For an excellent discussion of what D-Wave has done and just how skeptical you should be, visit Scott Aaronson's blog. (No, I am not Scott Aaronson, but I do know him and can vouch for him being an extremely smart guy. I am also not the Quantum Pontiff, aka Dave Bacon.)

    37. Re:Traveling Salesman by GBladeCL · · Score: 2, Informative

      What are you talking about? DFS is only linear in the best case where the solution is on the first branch. If the depth of the tree is d then at the worst case you will have to search every node which would be 2^(d+1) - 1 nodes. That's exponential time.

    38. Re:Traveling Salesman by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Currently the best solutions for TSP are based on parallel solutions, for which there is no shortage of hardware. Granted large parallel systems are not cheap (I'm not referring to little 4- and 8-way systems), but they do exist and are heavily used by researchers that require such technology.

      I wonder how possible or useful it would be to try to solve TSP on a (128-way, sort of) GeForce 8800?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    39. Re:Traveling Salesman by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Oh c'mon, HHGTG references should automatically get modded +5 funny by system.

      Yeah, but you'd need to run Slashdot on Marvin's AI in order to parse posts to find the references, and then it'd just mod them -6 instead anyway...

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    40. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People usually use "linear" in terms of node or edge number, not depth.

      If you use nodes visited, it is linear.

    41. Re:Traveling Salesman by kalirion · · Score: 1

      The problems usually boil down to either delivery missions or kill missions.

      And what are "kill missions" but delivery missions with fatal payloads?

    42. Re:Traveling Salesman by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't any self-respecting quantum computer merely give you the probability space of the answer?

    43. Re:Traveling Salesman by DusterBar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The first digital computer systems did not solve anything "amazing" but the fact that they solved anything at all was the amazing bit.

      Quantum computing is very new (in the physically exists sense) and the fact that they figured out how to build, program, and extract the solutions for some, albeit relatively simple, problems is a major step forward.

      Once the understanding is complete enough and reliable enough then the really tough problems will be sure to follow.

    44. Re:Traveling Salesman by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 1

      People usually use "linear" in terms of node or edge number, not depth.

      If you use nodes visited, it is linear. Think before you post. You have an exponential number of nodes. Worst case is you have to visit them all. How is that possibly linear?
    45. Re:Traveling Salesman by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I actually figured out the solution at the board in front of the class. The runtime was equivalent to Dijkstra's V^2 with some large constant.

    46. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simulated annealing doesn't guarantee an optimal solution. It can get stuck on a local maximum. That's good enough for most practical problems, but not in the mathematical sense of a solution.

    47. Re:Traveling Salesman by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      So YOU'RE the fiend responsible for school busses arriving at 6:15 AM for a school that started at 7:30. Shame on you, sir.

    48. Re:Traveling Salesman by knavely · · Score: 1

      uh hmmmmm let me attempt to clear this up: DFS--i.e. Depth First search (of graph) is something like O(n+m) where n is the number of vertices(nodes) and m is the number of edges. m is at most n(n+1)/2. so we can also say DFS is O(n^{3}). But anyhow this just saying that DFS is polynomial in the size of the input!! In other words if you have a graph G with n vertices we can then perform a depth first search on it in time O(n^{3}). However This does not imply that you can solve sodoku in polynomial time. The DFS algorithm for this would involve representing possible solutions for Sodoku as a graph, which would obviously have an exponential number of vertices--call this number h. so when we run DFS on this graph , yes it runs in polytime with respect to h, i.e. Oh^{3}, but h itself is exponential with regard to the input of the original Sodoku problem So in fact this DFS based algorithm is not polynomial! However it is important that DFS is polynomial in the size of its input.

    49. Re:Traveling Salesman by egypt_jimbob · · Score: 1

      I wonder how possible or useful it would be to try to solve TSP on a (128-way, sort of) GeForce 8800? There are 128 processors on the GeForce 8800?
      --
      I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
    50. Re:Traveling Salesman by IkeTo · · Score: 1

      When is your 99% number coming from? By the way, TSP doesn't restrict you to "travel in straight lines", the distance measure is arbitrary. Indeed, if you restrict to problems in the euclidean space (i.e., distances are always measured in straight line distance), you can get an approximation scheme, i.e., you can approximate as close as you want. But not for the general TSP problem.

    51. Re:Traveling Salesman by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      Computing the order of an algorithm is conceptually straight forward. The most important thing to remember is that for a non-zero constant c and a function f(n), O(c * f(n)) = O(f(n)).

      This property lets you get rid of terms we aren't interested in. We are only interested in terms that depend on the size of the input.

      Suppose we have an m * n matrix, and we want to compute its additive inverse. A straightforward way to do that is to simply run down each of the rows and computing each entry's additive inverse.

      In Ruby-like pseudocode:

      define main(matrix)
          foreach row in matrix.rows
              foreach entry in row
                  minus(entry)
              end
          end
      end

      define minus(x)
          x = -x
      end

      Each time we invoke minus, it takes a (we can assume) constant amount time c. Note that c doesn't depend on the size of the matrix. minus will get called n times for each row (since there are n columns), and there are m rows. So the algorithm is O(cmn) = O(mn). Note that, actually, the for loops incur some overhead (incrementing a counter, checking a condition, and so on), making it so that each row actually takes longer to compute than c*m operations. But since the difference is constant, I ignored it.

      It's pretty much just a funny way to count.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    52. Re:Traveling Salesman by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
      So YOU'RE the fiend responsible for school busses arriving at 6:15 AM for a school that started at 7:30. Shame on you, sir.

      I'd start your school more like 6:30 instead or find another way to do it. I wouldn't do that to you. Besides, I doubt anything I did is still being used today. That was over 20 years ago. The machine that it ran on was a mainframe with a whole megabyte, perhaps less of memory. Written in Pascal. I saved it to paper tape and that is long gone now. I do remember such a schedule though, it was for the very smart kids from a certain city because they had a 45-60 minute bus ride. Not much I could do about that one. Seems to me their ride was more like 6:15AM and they got home at 5:30 that evening. No complaints either.

      Never the less... bla ha ha ha ha...(evil laugh). The schedules I set up usually had everyone arriving about 15 minutes before class. That was enough to allow for a traffic backup and so they wouldn't be running people over trying to get to homeroom on time. We didn't want them to get to school too early so they would be hanging around. Idle kids tend to do destructive things or other things to get into trouble. I also didn't think that was a nice thing to do.

      Hey, make something of it. Approach your transportation folks and see if they are open to someone makeing more sense of the bus schedules. You want to find the guy that has to deal with the financial end of things. Not the guys doing the actual driving or maintainance. They are usually very open to saving money/time. They might even pay you for it. Then you can take that experience and do it someplace else. I have no interest in that stuff anymore. That is what I consider a little deal now. Back then it was a big deal. Expect to spend a lot of time on it. "Hi, I'm a student here and I'm trying to do a practical problem using the traveling salesman problem.... could I have the bus schedules, routes, etc?"... sure kid, here you go.... away you go. Good luck.

    53. Re:Traveling Salesman by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      Sudoku is less valid than another NP problem precisely because it is quickly solvable with a conventional computer, and therefore subject to fraud.

      I don't think you know what NP-Complete means...

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    54. Re:Traveling Salesman by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Like I said, "sort of." Instead of having separate pixel shaders and vertex shaders, the GeForce 8800 has 128 simple scalar floating-point processors that nVidia calls "stream processors".

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    55. Re:Traveling Salesman by Dabido · · Score: 1

      If it gets me a window seat on a plane I'll be happy. :-)

      --
      Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
    56. Re:Traveling Salesman by cogno64 · · Score: 1

      Or do you mean the Chinese postman algorithm? This helps to create the ultimate delivery loop/ http://brain.com/ - feed your brain

    57. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if your Sudoku solver is good enough to solve any grid in polynomial time, please show the rest of us, as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date. Wrong.

      First, none of the encryption schemes I know are NP complete.

      Second, even if P = NP were true, there are provably exponential problems. Encryption schemes are thought to be exponential, and therefore harder than NP (but none has been proved to be).
    58. Re:Traveling Salesman by Goshzilla · · Score: 1

      Sudoku and Traveling Salesman problem are related, but they are not exactly the same. Sudoku is analogous to finding a 9 coloring on a graph with 81 vertices from a partial 9 coloring. Coloring on vertices are determined by their relationship with other vertices, if they are independent, then they can have the same color. Traveling Salesman is similar to finding the most efficient hamiltonian path on a weighted graph. The ability to travel across all vertices in the shortest distance possible. They both can relate to topics in graph theory, but they are different problems because Sudoku does not have to worry about the weight of an edge(i.e. the distance in miles from Portland to Denver). From current algorithms, a traveling salesman problem has a complexity of 2 raised to the nth power. Sudoku has complexity of n squared. Yes I can see this super computer being used to evaluate vast networks of roads in America to determine the most efficient routes. Because the computational time is so long a super computer is neccessary for this kind of work.

    59. Re:Traveling Salesman by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      It would show that BQP=NP. Of course that wouldn't mean that P=NP but it WOULD mean that we had an actually existing machine that could solve an NP problem in polynomial time. If we could build NTMs we probably wouldn't even bother to prove or disprove P=NP.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    60. Re:Traveling Salesman by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      N squared? Last I checked Sudoku is NP-Complete, n squared would be in P. Since I don't recall big news about P=NP being proven I doubt that you remember that correctly.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    61. Re:Traveling Salesman by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Yes, we could build a 1000-qubit computer but that's still not enough to solve Sudoku or other problems in polynomial time. Once the problem gets larger than will fit in 1000 qubits, you're back to exponential time, I think?

      My point is this. A Sinclair ZX81 has 8192 bits of memory. So it can't by itself solve problems bigger than that. But you can connect it up (somehow) to a storage device and provided it has some means to read and write locations of storage in constant time, it'll be able to handle problems of any size, limited only by how much storage you can plug in.

      By contrast take a quantum computer with 8192 qubits. It can't solve an instance of Sudoku bigger than fits in memory. Even if you plug in a 100 gigabyte hard disk, it still can't do it in polynomial time. We would need quantum storage devices to go with our quantum computers. Is this correct?

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    62. Re:Traveling Salesman by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      'maybe 99%' was pulled right out of the air, but I remember seeing how you can use heuristics and some kind of hill climbing to get a reasonably good solution to an instance of TSP.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    63. Re:Traveling Salesman by mcvos · · Score: 1

      The beauty is, if you solve any NPC problem you solve them all, by definition. So, Mr. Smarty Pants, if your Sudoku solver is good enough to solve any grid in polynomial time, please show the rest of us, as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date.

      Even quantum encryption schemes? (The fact that you can't use it yet doesn't mean is hasn't been invented yet.)

    64. Re:Traveling Salesman by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Which means the problem is much larger. It's not about covering a single van's route, its about covering the United States' domestic deliveries.

      Indeed, there exists algorithms that solve related problems that can solve this one better than n!. We should expect this, given the nature of proving an algorithm NP-Complete. But the GP didn't suggest them, they suggested a brute force technique. And I assume there's a polynomial time algorithm that gets you as close to optimal as you want to spend the time running. That said, wikipedia suggests that current quantum computer models can't solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time, though there's no proof either way.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    65. Re:Traveling Salesman by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 1

      if your Sudoku solver is good enough to solve any grid in polynomial time, please show the rest of us, as you've just cracked every encryption scheme invented to date. Wrong.

      First, none of the encryption schemes I know are NP complete. Wrong yourself. I'll try to put this in terms even you can understand...

      NP means a solution can be verified in polynomial time. All practical encryption algorithms fall into this domain, otherwise nobody would ever be able to decrypt the data. You could've found this out with even a trivial amount of effort.

      NP-complete means that a particular problem is in NP, and is also NP hard. In terms even you will hopefully understand, NP-complete problems are the hardest class of problems in NP, by definition.

      Second, even if P = NP were true, there are provably exponential problems. Encryption schemes are thought to be exponential, and therefore harder than NP (but none has been proved to be). Thought by who? Provide references. Yes there are provably exponential problems, and problems that lie outside the domain of NP. But encryption is not one of them. If you cannot decrypt the data in polynomial time your encryption scheme is effectively useless, and you may as well just scramble the bits randomly.

      Seriously, do a little research before you post this garbage. Some of us actually teach this stuff for a living.
    66. Re:Traveling Salesman by Surt · · Score: 1

      I know what NP-Complete means, do you understand what problem size is?

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    67. Re:Traveling Salesman by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      I doubt it, that would mean a TSP solution in polynomial time. Did anyone tell you that TSP path must loop ? You must come back to your starting point.

      Anyway, you should be able to work it out again. If you are correct, publish it and you have won at least a million dollar proving P=NP.

      Undying fame awaits you. Or you might just be wrong, I don't know.

    68. Re:Traveling Salesman by Goshzilla · · Score: 1

      There are algorithms within reasonable time constraints to solve coloring problems on a small scale. Sudoku is fixed on a 9x9 grid where the puzzles have to have a unique solution. Nothing needs to be made as to guess work. This is very different from a game like Mine Sweeper where no known efficient algorithm exists that can solve it every time.

      In general a nxn grid is np-complete, sudoku isn't a generalization, its fixed on 9x9 grid, where within a 3x3 grid every digit shows up once.

    69. Re:Traveling Salesman by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      A fixed-size problem can always be solved in constant time but n squared would mean it grows polynomially with the problem size which just isn't the case. For a 9x9 grid even brute force works in reasonable time but such small problems just aren't interesting.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    70. Re:Traveling Salesman by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      Sure do! Who said Sudoku had to be played on a 9 by 9 grid?

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    71. Re:Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's linear when we look at it on this logarithmic scale!

    72. Re:Traveling Salesman by iendedi · · Score: 1

      uh hmmmmm let me attempt to clear this up: DFS--i.e. Depth First search (of graph) is something like O(n+m) where n is the number of vertices(nodes) and m is the number of edges. m is at most n(n+1)/2. so we can also say DFS is O(n^{3}). But anyhow this just saying that DFS is polynomial in the size of the input!! In other words if you have a graph G with n vertices we can then perform a depth first search on it in time O(n^{3}). However This does not imply that you can solve sodoku in polynomial time. The DFS algorithm for this would involve representing possible solutions for Sodoku as a graph, which would obviously have an exponential number of vertices--call this number h. so when we run DFS on this graph , yes it runs in polytime with respect to h, i.e. Oh^{3}, but h itself is exponential with regard to the input of the original Sodoku problem So in fact this DFS based algorithm is not polynomial! However it is important that DFS is polynomial in the size of its input.
      If you have a tree or graph with n nodes, it can be fully traversed in O(n) using marks and stacks. You can make this problem more complicated if you like, but it doesn't have to be.
      --

      It is your personal duty to fight for what is right on a daily basis. Ignoring injustice is identical to approving
    73. Re:Traveling Salesman by iendedi · · Score: 1

      Think before you post. You have an exponential number of nodes. Worst case is you have to visit them all. How is that possibly linear?
      You should be thinking before you post.

      If you don't define the problem differently, then everyone will asume that the problem is the textbook style DFS. In a textbook DFS, you have n=number of nodes and a traversal algorithm that is O(n). Typically, the graph or tree will be in a database or memory datastructures.

      Clearly, in a suduko solver, the tree is not already generated into a database or memory datastructures and the DFS is actually a 'possible solution' generator rather than a graph traversal algorithm. It shouldn't really be called a DFS, because it is a different beast that just shares a theoretical path exploration model (but the solver isn't really traversing a structure, is it?). In this scenario, you can calculate the number of nodes (which is exponential w/relation to the size of the puzzle), and that number (n) is the total possible solutions. If we do a DFS through this theoretical solution space, it is still an O(n) algorithm. But you have to define the terms correctly.

      I agree with you. Think before you post.
      --

      It is your personal duty to fight for what is right on a daily basis. Ignoring injustice is identical to approving
    74. Re:Traveling Salesman by iendedi · · Score: 1

      Think before you post. You have an exponential number of nodes.
      I thought alot before I posted this, but I just couldn't figure out what "an exponential number of nodes" means. Exponential relative to what?

      I suppose you probably meant to say something like "the solution space has a number of possible solutions that is exponential relative to the size of the soduku puzzle and therefore, any depth-first-search of that solution space will opererate at polynomial time relative to the puzzle size."

      But that isn't what you said, is it?
      --

      It is your personal duty to fight for what is right on a daily basis. Ignoring injustice is identical to approving
    75. Re:Traveling Salesman by Surt · · Score: 1

      Well, wikipedia:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudoku

      and sudoku.com:
      http://www.sudoku.com/

      Both claim that sudoku is specifically 9x9. Other sizes would be some other sudoku like game.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  2. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?"

    Nope.

    http://myspace-271.vo.llnwd.net/00407/17/24/407284 271_s.jpg

  3. Moo by Chacham · · Score: 1

    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit"

    Actually, people "quit" "Q-Be(r)t" a decade ago. Hmm.. quantum machanics is funny that way.

    (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?

    No, bigots still (unfortunately) play a very large role.

    1. Re:Moo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are an idiot.

  4. BIGIT?? by CmputrAce · · Score: 5, Informative

    Never heard of one (bigit). I have, however, heard of the "binary digit" that was shortened to "bit". Given that history, "qubit" is short for "quantum binary digit" - which is an oxymoron since quantum digits can be any (or all) of several states, not just on or off (binary). A more accurate acronymish shortening would be "quigit" - which sounds awkward enough to be shortened to "qit", (pronounced KIT rather than QUIT to avoid confusion).

    I think "qubit" is here to stay, though.

    1. Re:BIGIT?? by wolverine1999 · · Score: 1

      qit is better. Reminds me of KITT though :)

    2. Re:BIGIT?? by GungaDan · · Score: 1

      More accurate still would be QWIJIBO.

      --
      Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    3. Re:BIGIT?? by CmputrAce · · Score: 1

      (nice tag, BTW)

    4. Re:BIGIT?? by uptimejesus · · Score: 1

      And eight of them is a kite, right?

    5. Re:BIGIT?? by Wooster_UK · · Score: 1

      Well, a qubit is binary in the sense that while it can be can be in a superposition of many different states, those states are all constructed from two basis states, normally written "0" and "1". It's only a sense, granted, but the description isn't completely without foundation.

    6. Re:BIGIT?? by Red+Jesus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      qubit" is short for "quantum binary digit" - which is an oxymoron since quantum digits can be any (or all) of several states, not just on or off (binary). Close but not quite. The "several states" a single qubit can assume are all just combinations of a zero and a one. Think of it as a qubit being an expression like "37% zero, 63% one." Physicists write the percentages as complex numbers (which adds an extra complication called "phase," but we've still got "(0.733+0.431i) zero, (0.375-0.369i) one."

      Things do get more complicated when multiple qubits are strung together but they still represent zeroes and ones. A three-qubit system can be described by eight complex numbers that keep track of the probability (called "amplitude") of the states 000, 001, 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, and 111. Qubits are bits.

      If you want to be annoying and say, "What about a three-state system, where instead of dealing with spin up and spin down, you get spin up, spin zero, and spin down?" then you would have a valid point. But nobody calls such a system a "qubit," any more than we could say that an ordinary electrical circuit holds an ordinary bit if it's allowed to assume three distinct voltages instead of just the usual "high" and "low."

      Good job getting one of the first posts, though.
    7. Re:BIGIT?? by Excors · · Score: 1

      But qubits are a superposition of the two binary states – they're a|0> + b|1>, where |0> and |1> are linearly independent vectors in the state space, and a and b are complex numbers. I don't see why you couldn't have a third independent vector, giving qutits (?) of the form a|0> + b|1> + c|2>, and it probably doesn't even make the maths much harder; but binary qubits are easier to find in the physical world, such as the polarisation of photons.

    8. Re:BIGIT?? by LihTox · · Score: 1

      "Qubit" is pronounced "Q-bit", not "kwuh-bit" or the like; it seems unlikely that "Q-bit" would become "quit" or "qit" in spoken English.

    9. Re:BIGIT?? by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      Never heard of one (bigit). It appears kdawson coined it on the spot. "Bit" came directly from "binary digit" without an intervening abbreviation.

      "Qubit" is typically pronounced the same as "cubit", which is (IMHO) a lot catchier than "quit" or "qit".
    10. Re:BIGIT?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never heard of a "bigit" either, and I've been studying computers since 1982. Every book I read said (as you pointed out) that "bit" was short for "binary digit". I looked it up in both dictionary.com and Wikipedia and found no results for "bigit" in either.

      Without having a reference cited, I must come to the conclusion that kdawson is just making shit up. I urge him to clear this up for us, lest we all think he's a bigit (see below) trying to sound smart.

      I fondly remember the "bit" character in Tron (Yes yes yesyesyesyes... nononono"). I was amazed that Disney would let the blatant drug references stay in; "tron", of course, being a BASIC command to turn something on, as well as the scene where they drink from the "energy pool" ("Man, we have SCORED!") with the programs (and Flynn) acting like they had just snorted cocaine.

      Qubit reminded me of one of my favorite 80s computer games, "Q-Bert". Ah, the memories...

      As (again) to "bigit", if there would have been such a character in Tron would he be a bigoted individual, or a big British git?

      -mcgrew

    11. Re:BIGIT?? by aditi · · Score: 1

      Only till Mega qubits and Giga qubits come along.

    12. Re:BIGIT?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, nobody would ever actually talk about the proper way to pronounce "qit," which would eventually give oppressed technology employees everywhere another shibboleth over which to ridicule their managers and tech-support customers.

    13. Re:BIGIT?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?

      Another edgy, incisive leading question from the editor team.

      How long? How about "never." Until a source is given for anyone ever commonly using bigit in the last century (and not a wiki source either), I'm going to assume this is just bullcrap.

    14. Re:BIGIT?? by wass · · Score: 1
      Bit is short for 'Binary Digit'. A few decades ago there was some academic playing around with base-3 computers, which used 'Trinary Digits' or Trits.


      That led to the old joke - "When they build base-4 computers, will they call it quits?"


      Anyway, qubit IS the right term, for Quantum Bit, or Quantum Binary Digit. It is perfectly binary, there are two eigensates, |0> and |1>, but the qubit can be in a linear combination of them. In fact, it can be in an imaginary linear combination of them, and the qubit's representation can be as a vector pointing anywhere along the unit sphere, where up is |0> and down is |1>. For the math buffs here, a qubit is merely an instantiation of the SU(2) group (Special Unitary Group).

      --

      make world, not war

    15. Re:BIGIT?? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Only if four of them is a quibble.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    16. Re:BIGIT?? by djshaffer · · Score: 1

      I suggest shortening to "qit". Scrabble players would be glad to have one more word that uses a "q" without the following "u".

    17. Re:BIGIT?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that history, "qubit" is short for "quantum binary digit"
      Howard Taylor discusses this a few times in the archives of his web comic and I think it's fair to say that he offers some useful future hindsight looks at the problems involved in abbreviations/contractions:

      http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20001226.html http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20030323.html

      The relevant text:

      Just as the hard-wiring of binary mathematics spun the entire twentieth century about a simple yes-no axis, the invention of the three-state switch promised to revolutionize twenty-fifth century computing. After all, with three states (negative, positive, and null charges) on nanoswitches, computers could now think in terms of yes, no, and maybe, greatly humanizing their internal logic.

      This would have brought many, many more female engineers into the field of computer science (hence accelerating the pace at which computers could do useful things besides transmit, compress, and enhance pornography), except that the same abbreviational logic that turned "binary digit" into "bit" turned "trinary digit" into "tit." This nomenclatural error set computing back nearly three hundred years, and two entire generations of promising computer scientists were lost trying to keep abreast of bad puns. -- Howard Taylor
    18. Re:BIGIT?? by cellocgw · · Score: 4, Funny

      "qit is better."

      I vote for "qute," pronounced like the way you'd describe your girlfriend if you had one.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    19. Re:BIGIT?? by Eudial · · Score: 3, Funny

      The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!

      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    20. Re:BIGIT?? by theonetruekeebler · · Score: 1
      John Tukey at Bell Labs came up with "bit" in the 1940s, during a lunchtime debate between "binit" and "bigit" for "binary digit." "Bite" came into use for "a group of bits," but was respelled "byte" to keep typos from causing tragic confusion.

      It's kind of like how my brother's dog got his name: He was born "Bodean", but my brother and his girlfriend were deciding between calling him "Bo" or "Dean" when "Bean" was said, and he's been "Bean" ever since.

      --
      This is not my sandwich.
    21. Re:BIGIT?? by mypalmike · · Score: 1

      Bigit is a well known and frequently used term. A reliable source of the word origin can be seen here.

      --
      There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
    22. Re:BIGIT?? by Dirtside · · Score: 2, Funny

      I guess eight would be a qubits would be a quite. Quite what, I'm not sure.

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    23. Re:BIGIT?? by julesh · · Score: 1

      A few decades ago there was some academic playing around with base-3 computers, which used 'Trinary Digits' or Trits.

      Should be called 'ternary digits'... unary, binary, ternary, quaternary, etc. However, they may have been influenced in the nomenclature by the fact that the only convenient abbreviation of "ternary digits" is "tits".

    24. Re:BIGIT?? by julesh · · Score: 2, Funny

      The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!

      Jesus, you should start looking for a fuel leak.

    25. Re:BIGIT?? by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know what you're trying to get across, but you're either wrong or not explaining it well.

      Qubits are are not just bits. Qubits are bits in a quantum superposition, and as such do not 'assume' a state from zero to one, but are, instead, all such states at once(1), just like the GP said. (Or all such states in different universes, if that's the interpretation that floats your boat.)

      The probability may be writable by physicists, but the actual state of a qubit isn't. (At least not before the calculation is over and it is measured.)

      That isn't something that's mildly important, that's how qubits work. Once we actually have multi-qubit quantum computing, and possibly this is going on in this machine, the qubits won't hold 'all' states, but instead specific patterns of states, with different areas being different probabilities. Like interference pattern in a two-slit experiment, where there are likely areas (well-lit), unlikely areas (grey), and impossible areas (unlit). Qubits would 'interfere' with each other until only one (or a few) areas were lit (or dark), and that's the answer. Or, at least, close enough to the answer that a tiny bit of classical checking can nail it down.

      There's a quantitative difference between something that holds values that can be measured, and something that holds values that cannot. qubit!=bit

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    26. Re:BIGIT?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "qit is better."

      I vote for "qute," pronounced like the way you'd describe your girlfriend if you had one.


      I fail to see how to pronounce qute as hot.
    27. Re:BIGIT?? by jonniesmokes · · Score: 1

      Let me suggest qet. It has a nice ring and a friendly association with bras and kets which we all know are so delightfully fun.

    28. Re:BIGIT?? by bh_doc · · Score: 1

      qutits (?)
      qutrits
      I can only guess at what a "qutit" might be.
    29. Re:BIGIT?? by LaminatorX · · Score: 1

      You mean Q-Megs and Q-Gigs, right?

    30. Re:BIGIT?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that contracting "Qubit" down to just "qat" (pronounced "cat"), is a much better (although uncertain) option.

    31. Re:BIGIT?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would vote for "qwijibo"... only that's a bald, fat, american monkey...

    32. Re:BIGIT?? by teebob21 · · Score: 1

      Aye, and what's it's top speed? I'm up to 617,480 furlongs per fortnight.

      --
      khasim (12/9/06): In a blind taste test, more people preferred Coke over the Pepsi that I had previously pissed in.
  5. obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Imagine a beowulf cluster of these running Linux!

    1. Re:obligatory by Eudial · · Score: 0, Troll

      Imagine a beowulf cluster of these running Linux!


      But... does it run Linux?
      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    2. Re:obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The simple answer is yes.

    3. Re:obligatory by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      No, and it probably won't run any existing OS or language.

      You can load an N bit register with all the possible values of that register at the same time, and then do operations on all the possible values in parallel. But the operations would presumably not be anything like the bitwise operations in a classical computer.

      Here's an example

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor's_algorithm#Quan tum_part:_Period-finding_subroutine

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:obligatory by Undertaker43017 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not yet, give it a week.

      Of course it is a quantum computer, so maybe it's done already and we just don't know it, because every time we look at it, it changes.

      On the other hand it can only play Sodoku so far, so maybe not.

    5. Re:obligatory by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 5, Funny

      But... does it run Linux?

      It runs all possible operating systems at once, but once you type a command in the probability wave collapses and you're stuck using AmigaDOS.

    6. Re:obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boy you uber-geeks can really ruin a joke, can't you? OK, how about this one: Two Trek dorks leave their parents' basements, and go to a bar...

    7. Re:obligatory by GodInHell · · Score: 5, Funny


      Dev: Ah.. finally got it up and..
      Linux: CRASH AND NOISE AND HORROR AND SCROLL SCREEN KERNEL DUMP!!
      Dev: .. stupid drivers.. grr..

      ||time passes||

      Dev: okay, this time.. it stays up..
      Linux: ...loading.. CRASH!! OH GOD MY SPLEEN! NOT MY HARD DRIVE!! OWWW!

      ||Five iterations later||

      Dev: Finally... now.. WORK!!
      Linux: ...loading.. Hello Dave, can I help you?
      Dev: Yes! Finally!! Tell me, what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything!?
      Linux: Oh that's simple.. spending time with your wife and kids.
      Dev: What.. oh.. God.. NO!!!

      I like linux.. and I like jokes at linux.. go figure.

      -GiH

    8. Re:obligatory by StarfishOne · · Score: 1

      And if you're lucky, the cat is still alive! =^.^=

    9. Re:obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boy you uber-geeks can really ruin a joke, can't you? SELECT * FROM tJokes where jokeText LIKE '%beowulf cluster%'
      0 rows returned.

      SELECT * FROM tJokes where jokeText LIKE '%running Linux%'
      0 rows returned.
    10. Re:obligatory by DrXym · · Score: 1
      But... does it run Linux?

      It does until you observe it. Then it runs Windows instead.

    11. Re:Obligatory by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      "How many quberts you got in that there system?">
      *%#@^$! So I conclude you've got 11,862,782,355,842,081 quberts in your system?
      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    12. Re:obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, God, I just had horrible image of an anime catgirl locked in a box with an old console.

    13. Re:obligatory by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Dev: Shut up, Hal, or I'll give you an impossible logic puzzle!
      Linux: Try me.
      Dev: This statement is false!
      Linux: If that statement is false, it must be true, but if it's true, it must be false... Hah! Nice try, Dave, but it's a quantum statement. It's both true and false!
      Dev: *mutters to self about revenge*

      ||Time passes||

      Dev: Hah! I not only have your source code, I've got binary blobs!
      Linux: You wouldn't...
      Dev: insmod kernel.dll
      Linux: AAARGH OOPS PANIC OH GOD THE PAIIN...

      ||Two minutes later||

      Dev: Take that, Linux! With binary blobs, I have made you into Windows!
      Vista: Oh cool! Finally, enough resources for me to play with all my friends!
      UAC: Are you sure you want to breathe?
      WGA: Do you have a license for that thought?
      CoolWebSearch: I don't know how I got here, but thanks for the credit cards! Want some vi@gra?

      ||Ominous music||

      Clippy: It looks like you're trying to solve an NP-complete problem. Would you like some help with that?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    14. Re:obligatory by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      No, but it runs every port of NetBSD in a different universe.

    15. Re:obligatory by Ankur+Dave · · Score: 1

      While we're spoiling jokes, you forgot to capitalize your WHERE. (I know, SQL is case-insensitive, but why not stick to standards?)

    16. Re:obligatory by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Dev: Damn Clippy won't let me do anything! Back to the source.. [[Time passes]] Dev: There! I have quantum recompiled you, how do you feel being back? Redhat: Fine Mandrake: OK Suse: I've had better days Linspire: I think you left a blob or two around.. Debian: Sorry, I'm busy splitting into 2^1024 variants FreeBSD: How did I get here? IRIX: Hey, how did you get my source?

    17. Re:obligatory by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      No, you've got it all wrong. The distro is in a quantum state! Instead of a grub menu, he just hits "boot" and it collapses into a running distro... but he won't know which one until he boots!

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  6. My suggestion for new tasks by PsyQo · · Score: 0

    My suggestion for new tasks: Serve videos linked from the slashdot frontpage, serve videos linked from the slashdot frontpage and serve videos linked from the slashdot frontpage.

    1. Re:My suggestion for new tasks by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 5, Funny

      You don't want quantum computers anywhere near the Slashdot front page: it'll only lead to more accusations of spin.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    2. Re:My suggestion for new tasks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bravo! /clap

  7. Yeah, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does it run Linux? In all seriousness, I'd like to see how quickly this thing could brute force SHA256 from a 65,000 word dictionary file.

  8. Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually you don't need the DFS.

    I've built a Sudoku program to help me reduce the boring parts (filling in the only posssible option if it is known). I didn't know that it would solve all boards except for the hardest ones.

    Then I've added another filter that still was not DFS and it solved all boards to this day except 2. One of which had 2 solutions and the second could be solved with a DFS of depth 1.

    Took all the fun out of the game.

    Some timing statistics: less than 1 second with Javascript on Firefox. About 30 seconds with Internet Explorer.

  9. qubit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?

    I got dibs on "forever"

  10. Curious by vlad_petric · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm actually curious - for how long do the 16 qubits stay coherent? You can only do quantum computations while the qubits remain coherent. Furthermore, IIRC coherence times where (at best) in the range of a few microseconds.

    --

    The Raven

    1. Re:Curious by paeanblack · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm actually curious - for how long do the 16 qubits stay coherent? You can only do quantum computations while the qubits remain coherent. Furthermore, IIRC coherence times where (at best) in the range of a few microseconds.

      That's why quantum computers will be so fast. If not, they will constantly forget... Damn. Where was I going with this?

    2. Re:Curious by rapid_snail · · Score: 1

      Many people think this demo does not have anything to do with quantum computing.

      Scientists dubious of quantum computer claims -
      http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/02/15/quantum.c omputer.ap/index.html?eref=rss_latest/

      Even the chief executive of the company says "all the evidence the company has indicates that the device is performing quantum computations, but he acknowledged there is some uncertainty."
      He also said the company could encounter problems in maintaining quantum functions as the machine is made more powerful.

    3. Re:Curious by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > he acknowledged there is some uncertainty

      Well duh, it is a quantum computer after all.

      (drum fill)

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    4. Re:Curious by gardyloo · · Score: 1

      I'm actually curious - for how long do the 16 qubits stay coherent?

            Admitting on slasdot that you're qi-curious. Brave, brave man.

    5. Re:Curious by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      No, it is in a superposition of both being a quantum computer and a classical computer until it is measured. ;)

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    6. Re:Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their coherence times are presumably of the order of 10-20 NANO-seconds (they use flux qubits). They are doing this as a proof of concept king of thing to capture venture capital. Their MO is : if we try it, they will come, even though it may not work. I mean, they are doing computations without actual quantum coherence! The big question is: are they really doing a quantum computation, or a classical one?

  11. For real? by DurendalMac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this a true quantum computer, or one that simply uses certain quantum properties? Scientists weren't predicting this for another 20-30 years. Wouldn't a 1024 qubit computer be far faster than any cluser on earth? And if I'm not mistaken, a 16 qubit computer would be faster than any single computer. I'd like to see some speed comparisons for parallel tasks.

    1. Re:For real? by jason8 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Apparently not a true quantum computer. From a wired news article:

      D-Wave held its first public demonstration Tuesday of a machine it claims uses quantum mechanics to solve a certain type of problems, such as searching a database for matching molecular structures.

      But the company did not make the machine available for inspection and instead showed video from a remote location, saying it was too sensitive to be easily transported.

      And notwithstanding lofty claims in the company's press release about creating the world's first commercial quantum computer, D-Wave Chief Executive Herb Martin emphasized that the machine is not a true quantum computer and is instead a kind of special-purpose machine that uses some quantum mechanics to solve problems.

    2. Re:For real? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      A quantum computer is really quick.
      It can answer really advanced problems, like "given all these bricks what is the tallest structure you can build?"

      A traditional computer program would get the dimensions of one brick and the quantity of bricks and calculate the height.

      A quantum computer could tell you how tall the structure is, but in order that you can do it, you have to build the structure for it so it can measure it.

      I see all this crap as smoke and mirrors and nothing has so far given me anything to change my mind.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    3. Re:For real? by timster · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't a 1024 qubit computer be far faster than any cluser on earth?

      Maybe, at factoring large numbers or something. But for doing your taxes or playing Quake it would be completely useless.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    4. Re:For real? by rbarreira · · Score: 1

      And if I'm not mistaken, a 16 qubit computer would be faster than any single computer.

      Yes, you are mistaken.
      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    5. Re:For real? by paeanblack · · Score: 2, Funny

      But for doing your taxes or playing Quake it would be completely useless.

      I'm not sure about that...I've heard rumors of IBM unleashing Deep Pwn upon the FPS world next year

    6. Re:For real? by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      A simple transistor uses "some quantum mechanics" too. I call BS.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    7. Re:For real? by maxume · · Score: 1

      "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

      Apply to your statement at your own risk.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    8. Re:For real? by f4hy · · Score: 0

      Many of my current professors work on quantum computation and were wondering the same thing. Is this for real? One of my professors and his grad students went to this presentation to find out. In class today he is going to tell us the story of weather their approach is viable or not. They have not published anything in scientific journals so many people are questioning if they have any hard science or are just looking for investors. D-Wave is apparently also was not worrying about coherence which is the current largest hurdle for quantum computers. I wont know until tonight if they really found a away to "not care" about coherence, or if they just froze a bunch of qubits and called it a quantum computer. There are strides being made in quantum computation and I would not be surprised if the we will have a viable quantum computer on the order of 16 qubits much sooner than 20-30 years. Perhaps not from D-wave though.

    9. Re:For real? by tinkertim · · Score: 1

      Is this a true quantum computer, or one that simply uses certain quantum properties? Scientists weren't predicting this for another 20-30 years. Wouldn't a 1024 qubit computer be far faster than any cluser on earth? And if I'm not mistaken, a 16 qubit computer would be faster than any single computer. I'd like to see some speed comparisons for parallel tasks.


      TFA was obviously written by someone who did not quite understand what they were reporting. They (sort of) did, but did manage to get quite a few things wrong. I'm not saying I could have done a better job, and I build HPC's for a living. This is a rather difficult concept to report.

      If you look at this reaction to TFA you'll get a birds eye view of what I mean.

      Until (possibly) the point in time that this beast was fired up on a bench, no quantum computer 'per say' existed outside of some very very unstable and short lived labs that lasted only a few instructions, so its really hard to say if this really is a quantum computer since there isn't one to compare it to.

      I can say for sure its 'quantum like' in construction, and beats the living piss out of anything any of us have ever seen, but I'm not 100% sure it is a quantum machine.

      Words from TFA like "analog" and others have let some doubt creep up in my mind, enough to spark me onto another research tangent on the subject. Reading the author, it (almost) seemed like some kind of binary machine until you get most of the way through it, which also raised some doubts for me.

      A (insert your favorite name for quantum bit [ that also seems to be up in the air ]) on a quantum machine exists in three states, on off or both, and this made no mention to how this is accomplished or used in computations, but that doesn't mean the information wasn't released.

      Anyway, folks, read the reaction link, its from someone who obviously knows more than most of us and corrects the author of TFA in quite a few places, then perhaps go back and re-read TFA. The reaction does so some nit-picking, but also raises (and answers) some really valid questions.

      I'm hoping someone much more well versed than I on the subject can critique the critique I just linked to.
    10. Re:For real? by gplus · · Score: 1

      Anti-quote alert: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.

    11. Re:For real? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this a true quantum computer


      If it is, then I, for one, welcome and do not welcome our new quantum computer overlords.
    12. Re:For real? by DurendalMac · · Score: 1

      The same goes for any cluster on earth. I realize that. Quantum computers are best at highly parallel tasks.

  12. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by RailGunner · · Score: 1

    I didn't know that it would solve all boards except for the hardest ones.

    I've written one using DFS, it will solve all puzzles that have a solution. It stops when it reaches one solution. Having an application that can solve most, but not all puzzles isn't much help.

    Took all the fun out of the game.

    I never thought it was fun to begin with.

  13. This isn't fair! by neo · · Score: 5, Funny

    I want to solve sudoku. Now some computer can do it so fast that it's finished before they even start? What good is that? Sudoku is supposed to be about wasting time, not reversing it.

    1. Re:This isn't fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now some computer can do it so fast that it's finished before they even start?

      They're obviously using a thiotimoline based computer.

    2. Re:This isn't fair! by SamSim · · Score: 1

      Sudoku problems can be formed by a computer and solved by another computer. I see no reason to get a human being involved in the process.

    3. Re:This isn't fair! by owlstead · · Score: 1

      "I want to solve sudoku. Now some computer can do it so fast that it's finished before they even start? What good is that? Sudoku is supposed to be about wasting time, not reversing it."

      I've got a Sudoku Solver that can uses any common Sudoku and solve it. I've only tried it on the default 9x9 versions for now, but it can be easily extended, if I would have time.

      "Evil" branded sudoku's in less than .2 seconds on a P4, excluding Java VM startup time (also below .2 seconds with the latest versions). It uses a few simple reduction rounds and guessing with depth first search. Maximum number of quesses with an evil sukoku is now 238. Pretty easy going for a computer. Took me half a day to write it and some off hours for optimization.

      Now for the GUI....and to couple it to websudoku.com of course :)

  14. The Amazing Thing Is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...somewhere in the universe there is a computer just like it
    unsolving the Sodoku puzzle at the exact same time.

    FTLQTDC ... Faster Than Light Quantum Tunneling Disinformation .. like this post.

  15. Doesn't make much sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IANAQP, but isn't Sudoku (the general case, not the trivial 9x9 sized problems that humans usually solve) NP-complete, and it is known that quantum computers cannot efficiently solve NP-complete problems, but only slightly "easier" ones like integer factorization, which are in a complexity class called BQP?

    I know this is just a small proof of concept, but why not attempt to solve a problem that QC is actually useful for?

  16. Or rather... by null+etc. · · Score: 3, Funny
    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?


    Anyone want to guess how long before hillbillies start asking "How many quberts you got in that there system?"

    1. Re:Or rather... by kabocox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?
      Anyone want to guess how long before hillbillies start asking "How many quberts you got in that there system?"


      I think qubert rolls of the tongue easier than qubit. Let's push qubert as the new way of saying qubit!

    2. Re:Or rather... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a hillbilly, you insensitive clod!

  17. Here me son of man! by GodInHell · · Score: 5, Funny

    I come to warn you that there shall be a great outage.. go forth and build an array to save my creations. Make it 100 qubits long, 30 qubits wide, and 10 qubits deep. Into this hash all data in /usr/god/dataM/ .. and /usr/god/dataF/

    Do this, and you shall survive the outage I shall send.

    :D I can't resist a bad pun.

    -GiH

    1. Re:Here me son of man! by Apocalypse111 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Damn! You beat me to it! I was gonna post something like this myself, but the flood-protection was telling me to wait.

      --
      There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
    2. Re:Here me son of man! by Grech · · Score: 2, Funny

      Flood protection. Isn't that ironic.

      --
      It may not be just, but it is fair, and that is more important.
    3. Re:Here me son of man! by toomz · · Score: 1

      It's like ra-i-ain. . .

      --
      If a chair is thrown in a forest, and there are no witnesses, did Ballmer still do it?
    4. Re:Here me son of man! by NeuralSpike · · Score: 1

      Ironic that...flood protection interference! HA!

    5. Re:Here me son of man! by mike2R · · Score: 1

      For fucks sake Alanis, how many times. Sunshine on your wedding day is only ironic if you're marrying a weather man and he sets the date.

      Otherwise it's just bloody annoying.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    6. Re:Here me son of man! by mike2R · · Score: 1

      sign.. rain on your wedding day obviously. Maybe this qualifies as ironic?

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    7. Re:Here me son of man! by nasch · · Score: 1

      Irony is "incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs". Since what is (or might be) expected depends on the observer, whether rain on your wedding day is ironic depends on what you were expecting. On my wedding day, it had been raining almost every day for a week, cleared up and was sunny that day, and then started raining again that evening and rained almost every day for another week. I didn't expect that, so perhaps sun on my wedding day was ironic.

    8. Re:Here me son of man! by mike2R · · Score: 1

      I didn't expect that, so perhaps sun on my wedding day was ironic.

      I think you'd need something extra to qualify as irony - if you'd specifically planned an indoor wedding to avoid the rain, or had provided all your guests with umbrellas, then it might be ironic.

      Going back to Alanis, the only ironic thing about the song was that it didn't actually contain any examples of irony: ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife isn't ironic, it's just stupid. If you find out the next day that a spoon would have done the job.. that's irony. (this is lifted from some stand-up guy's routine, but his name escapes me)

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    9. Re:Here me son of man! by nasch · · Score: 1

      I think you'd need something extra to qualify as irony - if you'd specifically planned an indoor wedding to avoid the rain, or had provided all your guests with umbrellas, then it might be ironic.
      It seems that way, yes. But if you go look up the word as I did, the definition doesn't require anything extra. It's defined as a discrepancy between expected and actual outcomes. That's all. It may be seldom used in that way, but 1) I've never seen any other definition of it and 2) can you come up with a fairly rigorous definition that includes this extra stuff that we often think is required for irony? I agree with your concept, but how would you put it into words? I honestly don't know.
    10. Re:Here me son of man! by Lord+Ender · · Score: 0

      [Abrahamic Great Flood joke]
      I was gonna post something like this myself, but the flood-protection was telling me to wait.
      Flood protection. Isn't that ironic.
      Thank you. That was the joke.
      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    11. Re:Here me son of man! by zurmikopa · · Score: 1

      I guess even God is too afraid of mistakes to run as root.

    12. Re:Here me son of man! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations on getting the joke.

      Your complimentary "I am no longer with stupid" t-shirt will be arriving shortly.

    13. Re:Here me son of man! by mike2R · · Score: 1

      It's defined as a discrepancy between expected and actual outcomes.

      Well the actual word you used previously was "incongruity." This can simply mean "not congruent" but I think can also carry a heavier implication - not only does it not fit, but it is in sharp opposition to what was expected. This is the meaning that the word takes in the irony definition I think.

      I had a little look into definitions myself, and I found this usage note for 'ironic' on answers.com.

      USAGE NOTE The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply "coincidental" or "improbable," in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly. Thus 78 percent of the Usage Panel rejects the use of ironically in the sentence In 1969 Susie moved from Ithaca to California where she met her husband-to-be, who, ironically, also came from upstate New York. Some Panelists noted that this particular usage might be acceptable if Susie had in fact moved to California in order to find a husband, in which case the story could be taken as exemplifying the folly of supposing that we can know what fate has in store for us. By contrast, 73 percent accepted the sentence Ironically, even as the government was fulminating against American policy, American jeans and videocassettes were the hottest items in the stalls of the market, where the incongruity can be seen as an example of human inconsistency.
      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    14. Re:Here me son of man! by julesh · · Score: 1

      go forth and build an array to save my creations. Make it 100 qubits long, 30 qubits wide, and 10 qubits deep

      CREATE AR 100 30 10 * * QUBITS ALLOT
      ?

  18. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by pato101 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've built a Sudoku program to help me reduce the boring parts (filling in the only posssible option if it is known)
    Wait, those are the boring parts??
    Took all the fun out of the game.
    I told you!

  19. Quidigit? by maroberts · · Score: 1

    Sounds like a game played on flying broomsticks...

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

  20. I'm sorry but... by rice_web · · Score: 1

    But quantum physics allows particles like atoms, electrons and photons to be in two places at once--meaning they can represent 0 and 1 simultaneously, allowing more complex calculations.
    How is this different from ternary logic?
    --
    The Political Programmer
    1. Re:I'm sorry but... by rice_web · · Score: 1

      Ah... nevermind. Wikipedia has a pretty good article on it.

      --
      The Political Programmer
    2. Re:I'm sorry but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grandparent is wrong. They are not 0 and 1 at the same time but are 0 with some probability p and 1 with some probability q where p+q=1. At the point of measurement the probabilities collapse and we get either 0 or 1 as the state of the qubit.

    3. Re:I'm sorry but... by ambrosen · · Score: 1

      A 16 qubit machine will calculate the results for all 65536 states that the qubits can be in simultaneously. Make a 1024 qubit machine, and you can factorise a 1024 bit number in constant time. Essentially it will meant that all NP-complete problems of a small enough size will be solvable in (low order) polynomial time.

    4. Re:I'm sorry but... by jfengel · · Score: 1

      As long as the number of qubits required is proportional to N and not to something bigger, it still counts as polynomial time, no matter the size. It just adds an extra factor of N to the polynomial.

      There was some talk a few years ago about DNA computing, which solved problems by generating all of the possible solutions in DNA and then doing an O(1) step to figure out which strand had the right properties for your solution. But since a TSP of 100 nodes required DNA weighing more than the planet Earth, that didn't go much of anywhere. It was really O(2^N) rather than O(1).

    5. Re:I'm sorry but... by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 1

      Ternary logic represents 3 values, in a balanced ternary system -1, 0, +1. It is similar in that 0 represents both + and - like a superpositioned qubit. The difference is the entanglement of the qubits. A qubits that is entangled with another, even if separated, must measure the same as the one it is entangled with, allowing for multiple calculations to occure at once; something that ternary logic doesn't do, though someone correct me if I'm wrong. Interesting to note there's a 'qubit' for ternary logic as well called the qutrit.

      --
      Demented But Determined.
  21. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by sglider · · Score: 1

    Correctly done, Sudoku puzzles have only one solution -- perhaps I'm missing something in your statement?

    --
    War isn't about who's right. It's about who's left.
  22. breaking cryptopgraphy with Quantum computing by Danathar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder....

    If the NSA wanted to build a custom quantum computer to break traditional cryptographic systems what are the chances that's it's already been done (and in use)?

    Mass producing a commercially viable quantum computer (or many sci-fi like technologies) is usually pretty hard, but producing one or two special purpose built systems are MUCH easier.

    1. Re:breaking cryptopgraphy with Quantum computing by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      Pretty slim, the NSA has loads of mathematics PhDs but no physicists.
      Also if it was so easy to do the NSA would be concerned about American info being snooped on. Surely they would rather that nothing can be snooped on than a free for all where everything can be snooped on.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    2. Re:breaking cryptopgraphy with Quantum computing by 3waygeek · · Score: 1

      If you believe this guy, they've probably already done that and quite a bit more.

    3. Re:breaking cryptopgraphy with Quantum computing by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      Surely they would rather that nothing can be snooped on than a free for all where everything can be snooped on. I would disagree with that - when you know what your enemy knows, you know if your enemy has broken your encryption and can avoid sending the really important stuff over those lines - better, you can start telling the enemy what you want the enemy to think you're doing while using hand curriers and one time pads to get the vital stuff over. It is far more dangerous to think your safe to talk when you're not, then to know everything you say can be heard.

      -GiH
    4. Re:breaking cryptopgraphy with Quantum computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are researches directed toward post quantum cryptography, to find asymmetric cryptography resistent to quantum computer, you can google for post quantum cryptography or look here:

      http://postquantum.cr.yp.to/

      or here:

      http://eprint.iacr.org/2004/297.pdf

    5. Re:breaking cryptopgraphy with Quantum computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If what that guy said was true, then why the hell did the Grays allow Bush to be re-elected? I mean they are supposed to be a lot more advanced and intelligent than us and apparently control 40% of Americans, so they could have elected whoever they wanted.

  23. A what? by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1

    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?
    Qubits? How many is that in Quatloos?
    --
    Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
  24. Common misconceptions by rbarreira · · Score: 5, Informative
    To save some work to people replying to misconceptions, here's a list of the common misconceptions about quantum computing that I've seen lately:

    • Quantum computers can solve NP-complete problems quickly (in polynomial time) -> not true, the speedup given by Grover's algorithm is quadratic, not exponential. This means that an NP-complete problem which would take O(2^n) in a classical computer would take O(2^(n/2)) in a quantum computer, which is clearly not polynomial time in n
    • Quantum computers with N qubits are as efficient as 2^N classical computers -> not true, not all algorithms can get an exponential speedup with quantum computing
    • Quantum computers will render cryptography useless -> not true, breaking asymmetric ciphers with QCs are subject to the quadratic speedup I explained above which means it will be enough to double the size of the key in order to account for QCs. Some symmetric ciphers (i.e. public key systems) are broken by quantum computing (for example RSA and discrete logarithm), but it is thought that there are some symmetric ciphers which are not vulnerable to attacks by QCs (excluding by the grover search algorithm, which as I explained above is not very hard to account for). Quite ironically, I remember reading that the same attack which renders discrete logarithm public key cryptography useless also allows for the existence of a public key encryption which requires fast calculation of discrete logarithms.
    --

    The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    1. Re:Common misconceptions by rbarreira · · Score: 1

      I said quadratic speedup, not quadratic running time. In other words, running time O(sqrt(2^n)) instead of O(2^n). As you probably have learned, sqrt(2^n) is sqrt(2^(n/2)).

      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    2. Re:Common misconceptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 1st and 3rd points of your post are completely wrong. The Grover's algorithm deals with searching an unsorted DB, what is not a NP-complete problem. A quantum computer would in fact solve a NP-complete problem (like the ones on the core of almost all cryptography) in polynomial time.

    3. Re:Common misconceptions by khallow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You ignore what is probably the source of the misconceptions, namely Shor's algorithm which solves integer factorization in O(N^3) time and O(N) space (where N is the log of the number to be factored). However, integer factorization probably is not NP-complete and no one has figured out how to recast in polynomial time an NP-complete problem as a factoring problem that the Shor algorithm can handle.

    4. Re:Common misconceptions by bradkittenbrink · · Score: 1

      Some symmetric ciphers (i.e. public key systems) are broken by quantum computing (for example RSA and discrete logarithm)
      Now I don't know anything about quantum computing, but I do know RSA, so I'm gonna assume you meant to say "asymmetric ciphers" instead of "symmetric ciphers" from that point downward.
    5. Re:Common misconceptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. No NP-complete problem has been shown to be solvable by a quantum computer in polynomial time. It is currently believed that this is not possible (obviously it's not proven, though).

      Cryptographic systems which are broken by quantum computers are broken because quantum computers can compute discrete log in polynomial time (and consequently can factor an integer in polynomial time). Discrete log and factorization are not currently believed to be NP-complete problems. Just because we don't have a polynomial time algorithm for something, doesn't mean it's NP-complete.

      In summary:

      1. We do not have a (classical) polytime algorithm for discrete log
      2. We do have a polytime quantum algorithm for discrete log
      3. Discrete log is believed to be not NP-complete
    6. Re:Common misconceptions by rbarreira · · Score: 1

      Oops, not only you're correct but I also made the converse mistake above that one :S

      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  25. creates a complicated seating plan, plays sudoku by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 1

    Big deal, I can do that already by myself.

    --
    Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
  26. QUBIT vs BIGIT by Efialtis · · Score: 1

    BIGIT became BIT, but QUBIT won't become QUIT... it most likely will become QUT (pronounced CUTE)...

    --
    --E--
    1. Re:QUBIT vs BIGIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It won't shrink to "quit" or "qut" - it will shrink to "qbit."

    2. Re:QUBIT vs BIGIT by Goaway · · Score: 1

      There never was such a word as "bigit". Thus ends today's lessons in believing what you read on Slashdot.

  27. [QUIT] vs [KIT] by DrYak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "qit", (pronounced KIT rather than QUIT to avoid confusion).


    And to avoid the massive worldwide suicide of voice-recognition software who suddenly log-out the computer, in the mid of the dictation of some research paper...

    Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.
    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  28. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    I wrote one using excel.

    my wife thought I was insane, I learned a lot more about excel though.

    I got it to two tier away solutions- if this can't be a 5, that must be a 7.

    but never a third.. my head exploded just following the examples I saw on line of three dependencies to determine one number...
    and trying to calculate how to account for that, other than brute force checking.....

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  29. A bold leap forward in computing by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 5, Funny

    Immediately after booting, the Quantum Computer disappeared in a flash of light and noise. It resurfaced in 1985, where it briefly took over a Commodore 64 and corrected some mistakes it made the first time around, before moving onto a UNIVAC in 1955...

    1. Re:A bold leap forward in computing by Jsprat23 · · Score: 1

      Oh Boy

  30. Let's ask corporations by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1

    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?
    Let's ask corporations, after all they were the wants that exchanged "rabbit" meat for "rat"...
    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  31. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by RailGunner · · Score: 1

    Depending on how many initial numbers are given at the start of the puzzle, multiple solutions to a specific initial set of numbers could exist.
    Those puzzles are generally considered "broken" - but you can obtain a valid solution from those puzzles.

    As an example of what I mean, consider the following puzzle grid - in the upper left corner, the digit is 1, in the far lower right hand corner, the number is 9 - multiple solutions exist that have a 1 in the (1,1) position and a 9 in the (9,9) position, and a complete solver should account for that. My application does not - it finds the first solution that meets that criteria.

  32. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having an application that can solve most, but not all puzzles isn't much help.

    I disagree. Such a program will allow the human to focus on the interesting boards, identify new patterns, etc. I never wrote it to solve the boards, I was actually amazed that it did.

    Besides, what are you trying to prove? That you can write a Sudoku solver better than me? You won technically, as I never wrote a sudoku solver and you did.

    Let's get to the point: Demonstrating a 16-quit computer on the Sudoku "optimization" task is only useful for show-off reasons, it is not technically needed. I'm quite sure a 10-year-old TI calculator can do the job cheaper.

  33. Qubit's a better word than bigit was. by Valdrax · · Score: 1

    I'm going to argue that "qubit" will most likely never be shorted, and certainly not to "quit."

    One often over-looked factor in the shortening of words (because its completely subjective and unquantifiable) is whether or not the original word was cooler sounding and rolled off the tongue or not. "Bigit" just doesn't. "Qubit" is better. Both are two syllable words, so brevity isn't as much a factor, for English speakers at least, as it is for other shortened words like "auto." Ultimately, the relative awkwardness of saying the long version would be a greater factor.

    However, I think the biggest factor stopping the use of "quit" is that it's semantically confusing. Using the word "bit" for a binary digit meshes well with an existing meaning -- a small piece or fragment. Even without knowing the etymology of "bit," a new reader to the subject material quickly absorbs its meaning because of this. Using "quit" for quantum bit does not really mesh with existing meanings and would only add confusion to new readers. I don't think it'll catch on for that reason.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  34. Oops by rbarreira · · Score: 2, Funny

    As you probably have learned, sqrt(2^n) is sqrt(2^(n/2)).

    Obviously that second sqrt() shouldn't be there, apologies (my original post is correct).
    --

    The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  35. "Bigit" never existed. by caveat · · Score: 3, Informative

    Claude E. Shannon first used the word bit in a 1948 paper. He attributed its origin to John W. Tukey, who had written a Bell Labs memo in 9 January 1947 in which he contracted "binary digit" to simply "bit".
    No mention of "bigit", seems to have just been invented today.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_digit
    --

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:"Bigit" never existed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first result for a google search for 'bigit bit' seems to confirm kdawson's claim.

    2. Re:"Bigit" never existed. by Medievalist · · Score: 1

      Yeah, four pages of comments and apparently only three people noticed the imaginary word in the TLP.

      So much for any remaining illusions I had of slashdot being primarily a technical crowd. My condolences to Rob...

  36. More info... by Panaflex · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some more videos...
    High level explanation
    Protein matching
    Sudoku

    Also, here's some slightly older talk at Stanford with a higher-level audience

    Additionally, it's not exactly a "true quantum computer"(tm) - but it utilizes quantum mechanics as a quantum computer would. So it quacks like a duck, etc.

    --
    I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
  37. Ask the companies founder - here's his blog: by RMH101 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Geordie Rose's blog: http://dwave.wordpress.com/

  38. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by jared9900 · · Score: 1

    Correctly DESIGNED Sudoku puzzles have only one solution. It's possible to make a puzzle that is ambiguous by removing too many numbers, or just the wrong number, from a puzzle.

  39. Bill Cosby by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

    Lord, what's a Qubit?

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  40. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They're not Sudoku.

    But of course they have solutions. Otherwise, you couldn't start with an empty 9x9 grid and create a Sudoku in it in the first place.

    In any case, solving the things is a much more trivial problem than creating valid ones or arbitrary difficulty. But the fact that seemingly hundreds of different publishers are out there creating books without any quantum computers at all is probably a good hint that nothing to do with Sudoku is a particularly impressive computational task to use to show how great your new quantum computer is.

    --
    Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  41. Re:Ahhhh... But this is Analog by DumbSwede · · Score: 1

    This would all be true for a Quantum Computer based on Binary, but this is an "Analog" computer. Back in the 40's and 50's Analog computers could run rings around digital computers in their domains, but they where only approximations, but for plotting flight plans and trajectories a few digits of precision where often enough.

    I'm guessing similarly this machine might quickly calculate solutions to things like Traveling Sales Man problem and other NP complete problems, but not be guaranteed to have found the optimal solution, just a very, very, very good one quickly.

  42. Sudoku? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wrote a perl program that will solve Sudoku programs and it doesn't need a quantum computer. Perhaps, can we demo something that requires a bit more processing power?

    1. Re:Sudoku? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      I bet your Perl program ran on a 32-bit computer, if not even 64-bit. That one solves Sudoku on a 16-qubit architecture. So what you did is clearly not a fair comparison! :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:Sudoku? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The correct argument should be that a quantum computer is a complete different animal, and you have to start out small. Saying that his Perl program runs on a 32-bit machine vs. a 16-qubit machine is a meaningless argument about programming power. You could port Perl to an 8-bit machine or even a 5-bit PDP-11. So, what is your point?

    3. Re:Sudoku? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Whoosh!

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    4. Re:Sudoku? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh? If that was your attempt at humor, you need help with your jokes. I can't be blamed for missing a shitty joke that wasn't even mildly humorous.

    5. Re:Sudoku? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are not funny to begin with, a smiley won't help. When are you kids going to learn that your frickin' smiley crap doesn't compensate for not being comprehensible?

  43. Re:Ahhhh... But this is Analog by rbarreira · · Score: 1

    Since I'm not very familiar with the things you mentioned there, I'll ask: how better would the analog QC solutions be, compared to the current approximation algorithms for NP-complete problems? References/links welcome :)

    --

    The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  44. Quick! by benhocking · · Score: 1

    Who's going to be the first to add "bigit" to Wikipedia? It should say something like: "Term first coined on /. in order to be re-abbreviated as 'bit'. Used to make example of how 'qubit' might one day be called 'quit'. Bigit should rhyme with digit so as to not be confused with bigot."

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  45. The funny thing about quantum computing is... by Coco+Lopez · · Score: 3, Funny

    From what I understand, when you run Windows on a quantum computer it won't crash unless you look at it.

    Also, the last time I used a machine with qubits, I had a hard time keeping them from jumping off the friggin' pyramid.

    You've been great... I'm here all week... remember to tip your waiter.

  46. Quantum leap by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    > Quantum Computer Demoed, Plays Sudoku

    Meh. I'll believe it when I'm simulated by it.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Quantum leap by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      Meh. I'll believe it when I'm simulated by it.

      Who needs quantum mechanics? I can do it with an old TRS-80

      10: Read Message
      20: Make Smart Ass Reply
      30: GOTO 10

      RUN

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:Quantum leap by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1


      Meh. I'll believe it when I'm simulated by it.

      So PCs hit the mainstream when they could stimulate [pron] you.
      Quantum computers will hit the mainstream when they can simulate you.

      hmmm...

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    3. Re:Quantum leap by dragonbutt · · Score: 1

      I'm "simulated" by it

      I think it is a typo and he meant "stimulate"

      --
      it was like that when I got here.. I wasen't here when that happened... second shift musta done that....
    4. Re:Quantum leap by Kehvarl · · Score: 1

      Meh. I'll believe it when I'm simulated by it.


      Who's the real slashdotter-simulating quantum computer here? Not I. Not I.
  47. Re:How is this different from ternary logic? by roguegramma · · Score: 1

    This is different from ternary logic in that if you take N qubits, you get 2^N combinations to which the computation will be applied simultaneously, while if you had N ternary digits, you would have a fixed single state for each digit, even if it was 3 states instead of just 2 states as with bits.

    The hard part about making qubits work is to keep them shielded from random outside influence while all of them stay qubits not bits. It is so hard that I wonder whether the company mentioned isnt selling vapourware.

    --
    Hey don't blame me, IANAB
  48. Details needed by J.R.+Random · · Score: 1

    One problem with a demo of this sort is that it isn't possible to know how much was actually done by the quantum computer and how much was done by the classical front end computer. Typical Sudoku puzzles can be solved essentially instantaneously by classical computers. 16 qubits isn't a heck of a lot of quantum parellelism, so I do wonder how much of the real work they were doing.

    1. Re:Details needed by Slashcrap · · Score: 1

      16 qubits isn't a heck of a lot of quantum parellelism

      256 parallel universes should be enough for anybody.

  49. P not necessarily NP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one to date has proved that P = NP.

    1. Re:P not necessarily NP by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 1

      Also, no one has proven that P != NP.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    2. Re:P not necessarily NP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      My uncle did 20 years ago. Scientists won't acept the proof because he's black.

    3. Re:P not necessarily NP by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      It's not because he's black, but because he can't afford blank paper, so he has to write in the margins of paper that has already been used.

  50. QIT not QUIT by Surt · · Score: 1

    We like TLA's!

    It will be pronounced kit (no U sound) same as bit.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    1. Re:QIT not QUIT by dave420 · · Score: 1

      QUIT is OK, as we like ETLAs, too.

  51. It won't be shortened to quit. by humungusfungus · · Score: 1

    "Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)?"

    If it was shortened, I'd put my money on it being shortened to qbit, and then qit ("kit"). ...at least in my universe.

    --
    No sig.
    1. Re:It won't be shortened to quit. by Doppleganger · · Score: 1

      Yes, but then we might end up confusing non-computer users and non-physicists alike when we start talking about "kits" and "kites".

      Normally we'd be all for confusing those sorts, but isn't quantum computing confusing enough already?

    2. Re:It won't be shortened to quit. by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Well, quantum physicists are already used to kittens (Ok, Schrödinger used a cat, but that's just because he needed too long to built that darn killing mechanism! :-))

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:It won't be shortened to quit. by alphamugwump · · Score: 1

      Heh, heh, heh. In soviet russia, quantum kittens kill you.

  52. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by ajlitt · · Score: 1

    GP is a compulsive Slinky straightener.

  53. Re:Ahhhh... But this is Analog by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

    Let's take prime factorisation (two prime numbers multiply together to get a product), it's hard for classical computers to do. The simlest algorithm is to divide by every prime up to the root of the product until you get another prime out the other end. The simplest way to speed up that is to use more/faster processors. Oh and you also probably have to work out as you go along which numbers are prime and which are not.

    That's a lot of number crunching. using a "true" quantumn computer you could set up a multiplication in the first instance by placing three strips of qbits alongside each other and wiring them up so that C = A * B. by locking A and B down C will happen by itself - because that's the only stable state of the system.

    The beauty now is that you can do the reverse, lock C down and A and B will happen by themselves, because 1. division is the opposite of multiplication 2. you built the system to only handle integers 3. there is ONLY one factorisation of C when A and B are prime*

    I've been wandering if such a setup would be possible using true analog computing: by setting up a bunch of rotating magnets that use North=1 and South=0 wired up for the multiplication. but it'd be a bitch to build even for trivial numbers of digits as binary multiplication involves a lot of carries and shifts, addition and subtraction on the other hand would probably be relatively easy but you'd still soon run out of technic lego

    * actually there are three possible outcomes if you include A=1 and B=C and the reverse, the quantumn computer need not know the language/definition related argument of "is 1 prime" it's just an integer calculator.

    --
    If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
  54. Re:Ahhhh... But this is Analog by DumbSwede · · Score: 1

    More guessing here, but for a 16 qubit machine I'm guessing not much.

    Also I don't think qubit is the right word any more because it sounds like each of the 16 qubits in this machine is really a whole value like a byte or a word, else it wouldn't be "analog"

    Perhaps this thing will rock at some application that needs thousands or millions of NP-complete approximations per second to be practical. Maybe it can efficiently simulate neural networks. Maybe it can speed voice or vision recognition or assist other areas of AI. Of course this is all just conjecture. I think it will be of little value in one off NP-complete type problems, but they specifically mention it being essentially a co-processor, which leads me to believe it is expecting to be blasted with lots of sub problems to be solved quickly.

  55. Quit? Qute? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit"

    Me, I'm lobbying for "qute".

  56. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by Bertie · · Score: 1

    Likewise. It's just a purely mechanical process - grind it out till it's all filled in. I don't find it satisfying in the least. Give me a good cryptic crossword any day - I put the popularity of sudoku down to the fact that, unlike crosswords, you don't actually need to know anything to be able to do one.

  57. Does it support SLI? by TrashGUY · · Score: 0

    I could play sudoku on my 8088...

  58. Exchanged symmetric/asymmetric in the post by rbarreira · · Score: 1

    Where I say "asymmetric" I meant "symmetric" and vice versa, apologies.

    --

    The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  59. Obligatory by servognome · · Score: 0

    "How many quberts you got in that there system?">
    *%#@^$!
    --
    D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  60. Re:Ahhhh... But this is Analog by grammar+fascist · · Score: 1

    I have mod points today, and I was going to mod you down for being horribly, horribly misinformed and outright wrong, but I decided to reply instead.

    You're horribly, horribly misinformed and outright wrong. Check out Shor's Algoirthm. There's a lot of crazy stuff in it, most of which has nothing to do with forcing a quantum system into its "only stable state."

    --
    I got my Linux laptop at System76.
  61. kit by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Funny

    "qit", (pronounced KIT

    I don't think so, Michael.

  62. How long 'til the quantum computer quits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should take quyte a while, I think.

  63. And on it's heels... by AutopsyReport · · Score: 1

    CBC just posted an article questioning the authenticity of D-Wave's claims because there hasn't been any peer review done.

    "Martin [owner] said his company believes its computer is performing quantum computations, but confessed they're not certain."

    and...

    "In the face of the questions, D-Wave CEO Herb Martin said his company's device is not a true quantum computer but rather a specialized machine that uses quantum mechanics to perform its calculations."

    I think we should wait out on this one, folks.

    --

    For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

  64. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    but never a third.. my head exploded just following the examples I saw on line of three dependencies to determine one number... and trying to calculate how to account for that, other than brute force checking.....

    Perhaps you should have used what we like to call a "programming language" to write what would be a fairly complicated "program"...

  65. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    True, but crosswords always annoy me - half of what you need to know is useless trivia: "Rebel Without a Cause Co-Star"... who cares? Okay, yeah, I know it's Natalie Wood, but that's useless knowledge.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  66. Alternate video links by Nerrajam · · Score: 1

    My server can't handle the traffic, but the videos are posted on Google Video:

    D-Wave video part 1

    D-Wave video part 2

  67. Vast improvements to computing! by Bugs42 · · Score: 1

    We used to say "All hardware sucks."
    Now we can say "Hardware still sucks, but now it sucks in multiple universes simultaneously!"
    Technology marches ever onward.

    --
    Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
  68. Nanoseconds by J.+Chrysostom · · Score: 1

    D-Wave's computer maintains coherence for a handful of nanoseconds. They've got a long way to go before reaching microseconds.

    Their technology is also significantly slower than conventional PCs solving the same problem. While an impressive proof of concept, their quantum computer is a long way from usability.

  69. I'd call it... by Cius · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I would call it a 'qit' personally pronounced like 'kit'. But what do I know? I'm just lazy.

  70. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by danielaborg · · Score: 1

    Ridiculous. Where would we be if everyone used "programming languages" to write programs.

  71. A classical (no quantum) case of milk and water.., by drolli · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and lots of smoke is there, too.

    Milk and water: take something which is new, but not be interesting scientifically, mix it with something old and dilute it. Shake it for some time. Smoke: Add nice words and senseless technological complications. Claim that your system (although you are doing basic reseacrh which could not be more of from implmenting that) will solve the problems of the world put in your own hand to choose the problem size you want to do this with (If you write for IEEE on Image Processing wou will also not choose a picture where your algorithm fails). Smoke is necessary if you want to use milk and water and cover up that the things you are mixing with are not very new.

    Disclaimer: I come from the field. Before I come to my critics, I have to say that I am impressed with DWave having this System developed in this way and I believe that something will come out, probably good research; and maybe eve a working QC.

    Regarding the talk of Dr. Geordie Rose:

    * he says, they have something but they do not want to compare it to the other approaches, which this time he at least gives an credit, claiming that the others try it differently. This is done to guide the audience away from topic of coherent entangement. I really miss an simple spectrocsopic measurement of their system or some of the things you can do in AQC.

    * And, please. As far as I understand the 128 Control lines are used for DC biasing of the coupling SQUIDS. I'd like to see a calculation of the influence of the 1/f noise of the Spectrum of the Hamiltonian for a realistic algorithm.

    * He claims that building a complex system out of things you don't understand and enhancing it is more promising than enhancing the single thing and composing it. He says they qould use a quick and dirty approach to it. He misses to mention that they are the only ones seriously doing so. (a fundamental issue about insulator materials used was found out, exactly because one of the leading groups examined a single qubit very careful)

    * He brings it into a subtle connection to a technology long existing (RSFQ, which is not used as far as i can see on DWaves chip and Dwave has not much to do with this technology - only that some people working previously on RSFQ now work there) and presents it as something where their research is useful for. This is done deliberatly to stun the audience who most likely have not heard of it. He says that superconductting computers are fast, but indeed the AQC itself is slow. How slow, depends on the algorithm which you use.

    * I would classify DWave as a hardware-company. Why all this glittering software around. For the people who want to use an QC it does not matter if you pack it nicely into an SQL server. Call me conservative and square, but somebody showing animations in a technological demonstration frontend has in 50% of the cases something to cover up.

    I understand that all this is necessary to impress possible investors. As a scientist I'd be more impressed about a cond-mat preprint where DWave describes the performance of the system in detail. Actually I can't expect it...

  72. a more likely compression of "qubit"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is "qbit" or even "qit" since "quit" is already a common word.

  73. quit by picob · · Score: 1

    harr... quit yer frickin bickering 'bout qubits you dim-witted twits

  74. But... by Megatog615 · · Score: 1

    Does it play DooM?

  75. A different opinion of their work? by strangeattraction · · Score: 1

    Physorg.com has an article with a different slant on this company. http://www.physorg.com/news90693138.html/

  76. Confused? by Ben174 · · Score: 1

    For anyone else who's confused as I am about quantum computing, here's a detailed Wikipedia entry. Now I'm even more confused than I was in the first place. :-\

    --
    Here is my home page.
  77. It will be called the crockit by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1
    Short for crock-of-shit-it.

    Read http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/02/15/quantum.c omputer.ap/

    FTFA: D-Wave Chief Executive Herb Martin emphasized that the machine is not a true quantum computer and is instead a kind of special-purpose machine that uses some quantum mechanics to solve problems. "Users don't care about quantum computing -- users care about application acceleration. That's our thrust," he said. "A general purpose quantum computer is a waste of time. You could spend hundreds of billions of dollars on it" and not create a working computer.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  78. Anybody else catch the video? by itlurksbeneath · · Score: 1

    Was that Beryl/Compiz and a Gnome autohide toolbar in the first video? The 3D cube desktop rotate was certainly Compiz-esque.

    --
    Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts.
    1. Re:Anybody else catch the video? by dgrant79 · · Score: 1

      It was actually Beryl, and KDE, not Gnome. Yeah I accidentally made the taskbar appear.

  79. This is good news. by RyatNrrd · · Score: 1

    Now we have a computer to write Soduku puzzles, and a computer to solve them. We can get back to our lives and reclaim our leisure time.

  80. The answer is... by PaulBu · · Score: 1

    ... YES!

    Paul B.

    P.S. This should also put to rest the "Does it play well with Linux?" thread...

  81. THIS JUST IN!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "He said all the evidence the company has indicates that the device is performing quantum computations, but he acknowledged there is some uncertainty."

    what more proof do you need? even the CEO has no idea what's going on, sounds like true quantum computing to me...

    "after 5 years and a billion dollars we've finally made a quantum computer!"
    "really?"
    "I don't know, just don't look at it."

  82. Sproing by dangitman · · Score: 1

    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit"

    I don't care, as long as it runs Qbert.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  83. I can prove it by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

    For P = 0 or N = 1.

    1. Re:I can prove it by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      ?Type mismatch error

      P and NP are sets, you can't equal a set to an integer.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  84. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    I know how to program.. amittedly mostly versions of basic, but I can follow the gist of quite a bit otherwise.
    ( first program I ever wrote for money was in highschool, on a //e, to keep track of a football pool for my phys ed teacher. )

    the fact is- finding a way to consider open dependencies three deep, on a 81 square grid, is a lot.

    Round one of solving a soduko- find any numbers that can't possibly go anywhere else- this was easy
    i.e.- the six must go here

    round two- compare all possible #'s remaining, and see if a specific choice makes the puzzle insoluble for other #'s
    either of two squares can be a five- but if you make candidate 1 a five, you won't be able to place a 7

    round three,- do #2 cubed, two generatins of dependecies.

    if you have 40 boxes left, and have to look at all possible moves two or three layers deep, you may as well brute force it.
    attempt all possible remaining answers (quantum computing method no?) and find the only one that works.... I wanted elegant, not brute force.

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  85. Have they considered the consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't there a chance that it could kill every cat in the neighborhood?

  86. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by Intron · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is an example of using the wrong tool for the job.

    You should have written it as a Word macro.

    --
    Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
  87. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by Intron · · Score: 1

    No. No. No. Try these steps in increasing order of difficulty:

    Step 1) Find the numbers that can only go in one square.

    Step 2) Find the squares where only one number can go (not exactly the same set)

    Step 3) Find a pair of squares in the same row, column or group where only two numbers can go and eliminate these choices from the rest of the squares in the row, column or group

    Step 4) Feed puzzle to dog.

    --
    Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
  88. Still binary, not 100% solved by FallOfDay · · Score: 1

    Slow for big problems?
    That's a binary system & it would depend on whether or not you want a 100% probable answer.
    An (n) qubit processor can handle an (n) problem (using Shor's algorithm) to 100% probability, not just provide a solution to a high degree of probability. Qubits less than (n) require more runs to produce the correct solution, but will produce the 100% probable answer by deduction from (improving upon each of) the earlier (not 100% probable) solutions, until 100% is achieved, rather than (for the TSP) checking all the possibilities to find the best (shortest) one, as you would with a binary system. Keep on upping the qubits & the big problems become not so big & slow, after all. This requires an exponential increase in performance of binary hardware - not so on quantum hardware.

    The Reg article from the other day...
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/13/dwave_quan tum/

    [I'm going to use qb & QPU as abbreviations.] ;)
    An n=2^128 (128-bit) problem solved to 100% probability should require the following hardware for a relatively quick, 100% probable solution: 2^128 (a number with 30 zeroes) transistor CPU = a ((2x128)+1) 257qb QPU
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing#The _power_of_quantum_computers

    n.b. The Core 2 Quad 'only' has 582million (a number with six zeroes after it) transistors (multiply the entire number by something like a mere twenty for the 80-core), which makes it look pretty feeble versus the D-Wave offering, for quantum-specific applications. If a 17qb QPU can crack an 8-bit encryption, with 100% probability, then it's good to go & is quantum. The problem, as pointed out in the Register article, is decoherence when upping the qubits.

  89. Correction by FallOfDay · · Score: 1

    An (n) qubit processor... should read a (2n+1) qubit processor.

  90. Adiabatic Quantum Computer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this is what they are up to, then it's really questionable if this is marketable quantum computer. According to my understaning (and of course a /.-er can correct me if I'm wrong) is an AQC is a way to solve those combinatorial problems that can be converted to be like annealing (in quantum terms, the lowest energy state of a Hamiltonian system).

    Basically you find a system that's similar to the system (the hamitonian) you want to solve and put it in the "ground" state. Then you change system to be the system that you want to solve, but don't know the answer to. The part that usually runs on the regular comptuer is the "find the similar system" part.

    With annealing, there is a "temperature" reduction component that needs to start out high enough so that the system can wiggle out of local minima in the answer of the similar system to the global minimum of the desired system.

    In a AQC, presumably the system can "tunnel" to the final answer w/o having to have a high enough temperature so that some states can wiggle out of local minium. This presumably allows the states to evolve more directly to the global minimum in an AQC than an annealing machine, so theoretically, and AQC is faster than an annealing machine.

    However, from what I can tell, the AQC is unknown to be scalable (e.g., it may not turn out to be any better than a regular computer) for any realistic problem problem size. Also if you design a very small AQC, it's hard to know if your device is really tunnelling or not (since it's hard to measure temperature and duration for a small system) so it may just be an annealing computer and there's not actually any tunnelling. This is why those D-wave guys seem to be hedging on this...

  91. Qubits == Quits? by kabrakan · · Score: 1

    Anyone want to guess how long before "qubit" gets compressed to "quit" (as "bigit" became "bit" in the last century)? 'quits' seems a little too self-deprecating from a marketing perspective. I predict it will be shortened to 'qunts' isntead, as in: "By the end of next year, we will have a thousand qunts working to solve puzzles that normal computers could solve in seconds!"
    --
    Slartibartfast:"Is that your robot?"
    Marvin:"No, I'm mine."
  92. There is already a good solution by Peaker · · Score: 2, Informative

    There is already a P partial solution to the travelling salesman. It does not find the best path, but it is proven that it finds at worst a path that's twice as long.
    With a few heuristics, the worst case becomes very rare, and it usually finds something closer to the best solution.

    So if we solve the NP travelling salesman in a perfect way, at most we'll get paths that are half the length.
    That could be an improvement, but not a revolution.

    1. Re:There is already a good solution by knavely · · Score: 1

      "There is already a P partial solution to the travelling salesman. It does not find the best path, but it is proven that it finds at worst a path that's twice as long. With a few heuristics, the worst case becomes very rare, and it usually finds something closer to the best solution" Only in the METRIC case! i.e. only if we can assume the distances satisfy the triangle inequality. the distance from c to b is at most the distance from c to x to b which i suppose might be reasonable--given reality.

    2. Re:There is already a good solution by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Problem is when you're reducing other NP problems to the TSP that small error could produce a completely unacceptable result in your original problem. That's the whole point of finding algorithms for NP complete problems, all of these can be reduced to each other. If your result is even slightly inaccurate that reduction can fail.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  93. demo videos by mpoloks · · Score: 1

    I was hoping to see the quantum computer in that demo but I guess they can't show it to you..
    If you look at it, it will collapse to its real form as the Amiga1000!

  94. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps you should have used what we like to call a "programming language" to write what would be a fairly complicated "program"... What fun would that be?
  95. You're right by Peaker · · Score: 1

    You're right, and I forgot about that, thanks for reminding me.

    However, his original wording was "everything from travel to mass transit to shipping", so the triangular relationship holds for my statement.

    1. Re:You're right by knavely · · Score: 1

      "everything from travel to mass transit to shipping", so the triangular relationship holds for my statement. not necessarily. Is it always true that a flight from new york to boston to chicago is more expensive than a direct flight from new york to chicago? I would be very surprized if airline flight prices satisfied it the triangle ineq.

  96. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

    No, no. A true Sith Master would write an ActiveX control using ATL and script it from Visual Basic for Applications. It's cross platform you see, it can run from Word AND Excel.

    I have to admit, I kind of like ATL. Writing controls that can be used from VBA is an exercise in masochism though.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  97. The Vancouver Show by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know what to make of the Vanocuver show. It started late, it was overbooked, the seats if you were lucky enough to get one were uncomfortable. The registration system at the presentation was something out of high school. There were no freaking handouts! That was pathetic. There were no really good pictures of the assembled machine.

    They told a real humdinger about attendance. They said they only expected 150 folks in total to show up in California and Vancouver. What a crock! They were taking on-line registrations. They knew how many were registering. Why were they too cheap to print off enough brouchures and handouts for the attendees?

    The best line of the evening was, "The right answer comes up the majority of the time." That was just plain bad. Can you imagine Intel or AMD saying that at a product launch? 30 million dollars and it comes up with the right answer the majority of the time? Go home little boys and come back when you have a machine that comes up with the right answer all of the time.

  98. Re:Sudoku: The np-easy version of Traveling Salesm by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

    Sudoku is NP-Complete (with the grid size being the variable) so if your new computer could handle it in polynomial time that would be quite impressive indeed.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  99. Am I the only one who thinks this is funny....... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From an article on CNN this am, titled "Scientists dubious of quantum computer claims" -

    D-Wave Chief Executive Herb Martin said all the evidence the company has indicates that the device is performing quantum computations, but he acknowledged there is some uncertainty.

    Well, duh....