Slashdot Mirror


MPAA Violates Another Software License

Patrick Robib, a blogger who wrote his own blogging engine called Forest Blog recently noticed that none other than the MPAA was using his work, and had completely violated his linkware license by removing all links back to the Forest Blog site, not crediting him in any way. The MPAA blog was using the Forest Blog software, but had completely stripped off his name, and links back to his site. He only found about it accidentally when he happened to visit the MPAA site.

297 comments

  1. Maybe they should be investigated som more by viking80 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am quite sure MPAA would fail in many similar regards if someone would take the effort to investigate.

    --
    don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    1. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by daknapp · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wouldn't it be nice to send the friendly folks from the BSA to do a complete software audit of the MPAA?

      Maybe an auditing circle-jerk could be set up: the BSA investigates the MPAA, who investigates the RIAA, who invesigates the BSA, etc. ad nauseum, and they could just leave the rest of us alone.

    2. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by eskayp · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Maybe an auditing circle-jerk could be set up:..."

      Their circle is already a bunch of jerks.

      --
      I didn't desert Windows; Windows deserted me: BSOD
    3. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Mistlefoot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While I hope this is true - it would look good on the MPAA

      1) The screencaps show very little detail
      2) "Dan Glickman Forum" from the screencaps turn up nothing in Google.
      3) The line provided http://www.mpaa.org/blog_default.asp doesn't exist, isn't found in google OR the wayback machine and the home page back in September 06 looks very much like it does today - I don't find any obvious links to this.

      If the MPAA accuses me of stealing files they had better produce some evidence and I damn well expect (not that they desterve it) that evidence has to be provided on this.

      Of course my Google skills might not be up to snuff - but come on community, find the evidence while it still exists - if it did at all.

    4. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by chawly · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sure you're wrong - they are such nice fellahs, I'm sure they'd never, ever do any such thing. Unless of course they thought they were above the law, being the MPAA and all

      --
      How many beans make five, anyhow ? ... Charles Walmsley
    5. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Hognoxious · · Score: 1, Funny

      ad nauseum
      Did you read that in a museam?
      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Peet42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The third screenshot is of an article that was published by Glickman in "Variety":

      http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117931921.html?c ategoryid=9&cs=1

      Now, it's possible that he was lazy and just dumped an article he was paid for straight into his BLOG, but it's equally likely the screenshot was faked using data that was already out there. :-/

    7. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by heroofhyr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a strange question: why is the article he supposedly took a screenshot from dated September 29th, 2006, but the calendar for the archive of posts is February 2007? I thought perhaps the calendar in this software might display the current month regardless of which post you're reading, but if you look at this link to the author of the programme's own site, here, you'll see that the calendar does indeed change with the post you're reading. Which means the article on the MPAA blog is supposedly from over 3 months ago but the calendar is showing this month. Either the screencap is faked, the web admin who set up the software doesn't know what the fuck he's doing, or the software needs work. There's also no mention of the blog ever being there in Google or the Internet Archive despite the former surely having a copy and the latter already having an index of tens of thousands of pages from the MPAA site, and not a single one of them matching a search for this blog. Maybe the guy just wants to do some viral marketing, maybe he supports the MPAA philosophically and wants a bunch of overhyped, gullible nerds to get upset so he can make them look foolish later. Or maybe it is legitimate and he just happens to have stumbled upon the site, the link just happens to be taken down, and all mention of it from the face of the Internet has disappeared forever. That seems really likely.

      --
      brandelf: invalid ELF type 'KEEBLER'
    8. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by tscholz · · Score: 1

      You might try not the use the events page as proof (http://www.hostforest.co.uk//Events/default.asp?Y ear=2006&Month=12&Day=04), since that does change the calender. But the events calender is not what was shown in the screenshot!

    9. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Chiaro+Meratilo · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you see his latest post, here, you'd see the MPAA's response.

    10. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      In a serious sence, that were my thoughts exactally. The the *AA's audited.

      Execpt i really doubt you could get the BSA to audit such a high profile friend. And even if they did do you honestly think you could trust the results? "after extensive research we found one accidental copy of winzip and have asked them to pay the 20 bucks to comply with requirements. And since it was an accident we have decided not to levy any fines in this case"

      On a related topic, has anyone ever suffered thru a BSA audit? Assuming you let them on the property and give thm the 'keys' how do they go about their business? Mechincally how do they go about this 'audit'? I am just curious, i have no impending harassment ( and no violations either )

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    11. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Patrick+Robin · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm the creator of Forets Blog and, obviously, the author of this article so its only right that I respond to your queries.

      1) The screenshots show as much detail as possible, I can/could only view the output of my system and not the source.
      2/3) I came across the blog through my website referals when they accessed the RSS feed from my site. The site was live and online but I'm unsure whether it was ever linked to or if it was spidered by google, but it was on a live web server that was accessable by any member of the public. It has been removed from their web server since the article was written after some dialogue between myself and the MPAA.

      I have been in communication with Paul Egge and Richard Kroon (Director of Application Development) at the MPAA and have copies of all of the emails that were sent.

    12. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Patrick+Robin · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think you are getting slightly confused, the calendar isn't there to access archive posts but to view events that the blog owner has entered in to the system and the calendar operates independantly of which ever page is being browsed. When you are viewing the events for a given date, such as you have linked to, the calendar will change to show that month. If you are just browsing the site it will show the current month/year by default. If you look at my update on the site (http://www.patrickrobin.co.uk/default.asp?Display =5) you will see why the MPAA blog is no longer visible.

    13. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Robber+Baron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're going to hear this a lot, and I wish to add my voice to the growing chorus:

      Sue the motherfuckers! Get a lawyer and sue the shit out of them! Give them a taste of their own medicine. They NEED to be on the receiving end of their own bullshit.
      Their guilt is manifest by the fact that they've removed the work in question from their website. If it wasn't a problem, they wouldn't have felt the need to do so.

      --

      You're using her as bait, Master!

    14. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by jyavenard · · Score: 1

      The article posted was dated September, 29th 2006. That doesn't mean the screen capture was done at that time.

    15. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by hahiss · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've never been audited (since I'm just a faculty member and I don't use proprietary software), so I cannot vouch for its accuracy, but here's a description from an attorney that works in the field:

      http://blawg.bsadefense.com/2006/12/bsa_timeline.h tml

      Personally, I'd be tempted to farm out the communication with the BSA to the chaps who write the responses for the Pirate Bay. . . .

      --
      "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
    16. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the accept a ( legit ) 'self-audit', which is good as id not want people running around invading our secuirty.

      Not that i expect an audit, and im 100% legal at the office, but you never know what might be asked of you tomrrow.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    17. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Doc+Hoss · · Score: 0

      Hey Tom, you remember the other day you asked me what the definition of irony was? Well...

    18. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone already told you to sue them.

      Of course, the direct harm inflicted on them from such a law suit would be negligable since (no offense) the software in question is just not that valuable.

      What *would* be valuable is getting them convicted of copyright infringement, because that would mean anybody could make the claim that "MPAA are software pirates" and it wouldn't be slander.

      For that reason they would likely be very interested in settling such a suit without admitting guilt, which means there may be a lot of money to be had from them. Or you could get the conviction if you felt like doing real harm to them would be worth not getting a lot of money.

    19. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sue the motherfuckers!

      While I totally agree, I would have kept the cat in the bag at least long enough for the MPAA to make the blog public and somewhat more mature.

    20. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by ne0n · · Score: 1

      Even worse: it looks like hostforest.co.uk itself doesn't even exist. Could this be some sort of sick slashdot conspiracy?

      --
      $ :(){ :|:& };:
    21. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, how much did you sell out for?

    22. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
      The MPAA's response:

      Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'

      [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][DBNETLIB]SQL Server does not exist or access denied.

      /Includes/inc-dataconnection.asp, line 2

      In other words, no comment.
    23. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I clicked on the link, and this is what I got:

      Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'

      [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][DBNETLIB]SQL Server does not exist or access denied.

      /Includes/inc-dataconnection.asp, line 22


      Woah! That MPAA sure doesn't mess around.

    24. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Nick+Driver · · Score: 1

      Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'

      [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][DBNETLIB]SQL Server does not exist or access denied.

      /Includes/inc-dataconnection.asp, line 22


      - - -
      So the MPAA must've called the BSA and had his SQL Server license revoked?

    25. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by newsblaze · · Score: 1

      Your site is down. Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005' [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][DBNETLIB]SQL Server does not exist or access denied. /Includes/inc-dataconnection.asp, line 22

      --
      Daily News http://newsblaze.com
    26. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by X.mpls · · Score: 1

      That would be called 'checks and balances' my good sir.

    27. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by delinear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I doubt the people in charge of their websites are the same asses in charge of the group's corporate strategies. Suing in this case would not help anything.

      The people who download the music aren't always the same people they sue...

    28. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by jenxdigital · · Score: 1

      Sadly, I'm all for this, and I'm usually against litigation unless necessary. For a company who appears to get a great deal out of suing people who can't afford it, I'd say that this one would be a fair fight. You created the software that they used. They stripped your information from it, in essence, to make it look like one of their programmers coded it. Too bad for them that you caught it! (and, yeah, it still counts if it was an intern that "didn't know better".

      --
      I'm true neutral. I go both ways.
    29. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by intheshelter · · Score: 1
      Has anyone else noticed that their home page is almost entirely devoted to piracy, stopping piracy, theives, how theives hurt their business, etc? Is it just me or are they almost pathologically obsessed with this issue? It's almost a bunker mentality.

      And, just to weigh in on this, I say sue 'em! I have frivolous lawsuits too, but I don't think this qualifies. Despite the fact that they'd get off scott free, this is actually a lawsuit that needs to be filed.

    30. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      drop the leadership at the mpaa and tell them what you think of their theft:

      bdavis@mpaa.org; jvalenti@mpaa.org; dglickman@mpaa.org

    31. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by mpe · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be nice to send the friendly folks from the BSA to do a complete software audit of the MPAA?

      Maybe even the Business Software Alliance sponsored by Birmingham Small Arms. Possibly before applying a DMCA takedown notice to the MPAA's (entire) website.

  2. Well, not anymore... by rwven · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apparently they're hiding now. I get a "Page cannot be found" on the MPAA blog...

    1. Re:Well, not anymore... by frup · · Score: 2

      I really do hope they get in trouble for this. If not legal ramifications, at least a loss of credibility... and not just amongst slashdotters ;)

    2. Re:Well, not anymore... by anagama · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Don't worry, after they pay for the Forest Blog software, they'll ... um ... they won't be able to buy a corporate lunch. Not bankruptcy I suppose, but something.

      Note, at present exchange rate, the permision to remove the links is $97.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:Well, not anymore... by quadra23 · · Score: 1

      Apparently they're hiding now. I get a "Page cannot be found" on the MPAA blog...

      You sure it wasn't just slashdotted? That's happened before...on many an occasion ;-)

    4. Re:Well, not anymore... by MaverickUW · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good thing you know how to use the currency converter.

      I mean, come on. 150 pounds is not $97. 97 pounds is $150.

      Besides, he could go after full penalties now, which is significantly more than 150 pounds. Sure, it's nothing to the MPAA, but still, it doesn't look good that they do so much to enforce IP then they lose in court for similar violations

    5. Re:Well, not anymore... by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh if that's how the RIAA (and I imagine MPAA) worked getting sued them would be a hardship rather then simply ridiculous. No, the MPAA has to pay 100 million dollars for every page they have that lacks the link (so if they've made 10 blog posts, that's at least 10 pages).

    6. Re:Well, not anymore... by zCyl · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't worry, after they pay for the Forest Blog software, they'll ... um ... they won't be able to buy a corporate lunch. Not bankruptcy I suppose, but something.

      Note, at present exchange rate, the permision to remove the links is $97.

      No no no. It has nothing to do with the cost of the albu^H^H^H^Hsoftware. You see, since they didn't pay initially, they should have had a link. And if they had placed a link, then there would have been more users of Forest Blog, and thus they are liable for each user who did not use Forest Blog because they were missing the link. Therefore their liability should be $97 times everyone who has visited mpaa.org, and thus was a lost customer, plus punitive damages of $150,000 per page that should have had a link.
    7. Re:Well, not anymore... by David+Horn · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, £97 is about $190 thanks to your tumbling economy... ;-)

      --
      PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
    8. Re:Well, not anymore... by anagama · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, we're both wrong. Somehow, I red the 25 pounds as 50. Since they're only running 1 commercial blog, the price is 25 pounds. http://www.hostforest.co.uk/Purchase/default.asp

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    9. Re:Well, not anymore... by anagama · · Score: 1

      and I can't type tonight

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    10. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what? That 404 page being a complete IIS/Windows/Microsoft advertisement in name of "help" is really insightful for me and some others.

      I mean the fact that RIAA/MPAA somehow loves using Microsoft software.

      RIAA hides their OS for some reason but it can be easily found in IIS 404 page like http://www.riaa.com/test.html

      A true open or documented independent codec (e.g. h264) based web market which everyone can sell their art without those leeches are bad for Microsoft too, where would be "Sorry, Windows needed to purchase our music/movie" messages? Where would be Microsoft?

      BTW congratulations to MPAA for porting IIS/6.0 to Linux! http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http:/ /www.mpaa.org

    11. Re:Well, not anymore... by vindimy · · Score: 0

      on many an occasion

      did you mean, "on many an time"?
    12. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, he meant "on many an occasion" or "many a time". What you said was nonsensical.

    13. Re:Well, not anymore... by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 4, Funny

      $193. Talk about speedy ...

      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    14. Re:Well, not anymore... by h2g2bob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How reliable is the source? No pages link to the blog, and the blog isn't listed on Google.

      I smell something, and for one it isn't MAFIAA. Free advertising for ForrestBlog anyone!?

    15. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As much as I'd love to see the MPAA get nailed for this, they won't. They don't play by the same rules one of us would be forced to play by if we were nailed for something. They will be liable for nothing.

      Corporate criminals are clever enough to distance themselves from all crimes they oversee. They're going to release a statement about how this page was handled by some lowly contractor, who takes all fault, they removed it as soon as it was found, and walk away clean.

    16. Re:Well, not anymore... by asc99c · · Score: 1

      Oh come on that's ridiculous. Clearly many of those lost users would also have told their friends about the software - I'd suggest tripling the damages from your conservative estimate.

    17. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick: stop posting before you make yourself look stupid!

    18. Re:Well, not anymore... by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "You see, since they didn't pay initially..."

      You don't understand. Like many pirates^H^H^H^H^H file sharers, they're simply trying it out to see if they like it BEFORE they pay for it.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    19. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yours is based on a fiat currency. It falls everyonce in awhile.

      It'll fall soon enough.

    20. Re:Well, not anymore... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Besides, he could go after full penalties now, which is significantly more than 150 pounds.

      If he does so in the US, then he may have difficulties doing so, since he'll have procedural hurdles to go through. It could be too late already, depending on the facts involved.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    21. Re:Well, not anymore... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      No no no. It has nothing to do with the cost of the albu^H^H^H^Hsoftware. You see, since they didn't pay initially, they should have had a link. And if they had placed a link, then there would have been more users of Forest Blog, and thus they are liable for each user who did not use Forest Blog because they were missing the link. Therefore their liability should be $97 times everyone who has visited mpaa.org, and thus was a lost customer, plus punitive damages of $150,000 per page that should have had a link.

      No no no. It has nothing to do with your made-up crap. If you want to argue that he was actually damaged by the failure to provide the link, then they are only liable for each user who did not use the software because of the missing link, and who otherwise would have used the software. Unless this is spectacularly popular software, not all users who see the link are going to use the software. So you determine which, if any, of the users, who went to the site would have used the software had the link been there. This will be some percentage of the users, perhaps a low percentage. You don't get to assume that every single one is a lost customer. That isn't how it works. Additionally, it's not every user that went to the entire domain, it's only the ones that went to the pages where they'd've seen the link.

      So really, we're not looking at all mpaa.org users. We're looking at a rather tiny fraction of them, since those would be the only ones for which there'd be actual damages. Not made-up damages. You don't get made-up damages in court.

      As for punitive damages, they don't exist in this case. And your $150,000 figure, if not totally pulled out of your ass, is probably based on statutory damages, which cannot be claimed together with actual damages (you have to pick one), and which I suspect are unavailable here, but perhaps they are, it depends. If the guy is at all serious, he needs to talk to a US copyright lawyer right now, lest his window close for getting decent damages. Assuming it hasn't closed already.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    22. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ---------------> Joke
      O
      /|\ --------->You
      / \

    23. Re:Well, not anymore... by mstahl · · Score: 1

      *whoooosh!!!*

    24. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is this modded funny? If he sues with the help of a competent lawyer, he'll be making those claims in his suit in all seriousness.

    25. Re:Well, not anymore... by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 1

      If the MPAA makes similar assumptions when suing people I don't think they can reasonably object to him using these assumptions.

      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    26. Re:Well, not anymore... by mpe · · Score: 1

      If the MPAA makes similar assumptions when suing people I don't think they can reasonably object to him using these assumptions.

      The MPAA probably wouldn't understand the irony. A judge might though...

    27. Re:Well, not anymore... by mpe · · Score: 1

      Besides, he could go after full penalties now, which is significantly more than 150 pounds. Sure, it's nothing to the MPAA, but still, it doesn't look good that they do so much to enforce IP then they lose in court for similar violations

      If he sued for GPB150 he'd probably get a default judgement against them. Anything up to GBP 5,000 would be handled via the "Small Claims Procedure". Which means even if they can sucessfully defend against a claim they have no chance of getting any money they spend on lawyers back.

  3. Not the first time by Ydna · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not the first time the MPAA has been caught pirating the copyrighted works of others. They got caught making and distributing copies of This Film Is Not Yet Rated without permission (and after they claimed they did not make any copies).

    --

    "The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once." -me

    1. Re:Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh you mean the whole article title that they've violated someone's IP *again* wasn't just an exaggeration?

    2. Re:Not the first time by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This crowd has been violating other peoples' "IP" since they moved out west. This little fact seems to go right over a certain moderator's head. It should be no surprise that the law doesn't apply to everybody.

      --
      What?
    3. Re:Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't know why your post is modded as "informative," because you haven't provided any information about the incident to which you are referring. Maybe if I post that the MPAA were caught red-handed drowning kittens and leaving the toilet seat up I can be modded "informative" too?

    4. Re:Not the first time by iminplaya · · Score: 0

      Overrated

      Of course it's overated. I know that. You're just proving it, Mister Freak. Otherwise such corporate and government hypocrisy would actually be an election issue, and we would vote for politicians who wouldn't tolerate it.

      --
      What?
    5. Re:Not the first time by great+throwdini · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know why your post is modded as "informative," because you haven't provided any information about the incident to which you are referring.

      Should you happen to rent or buy This Film Is Not Yet Rated the "incident" discussed in-thread is detailed during the audio commentary (by the film's director and producer) and again within a deleted scene (the phone call from an MPAA lawyer that informed the director of unauthorized copying was filmed, though the MPAA's half of the conversation was not directly recorded).

      In a nutshell, the director had submitted the film to the MPAA for ratings review and was told that no one other than the raters would view the tape provided. He was also told that no copies would be made of the supplied materials. It came to pass that members of the MPAA admitted to not only screening the film for several non-raters but also to making at least one complete (and unauthorized) copy of the supplied tape.

      Wikipedia covers this same ground though that summary is about as lacking as mine in terms of substantive references.

    6. Re:Not the first time by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 0, Troll

      Who cares, right? You guys argue that copyright is dead and that copyright infringement is perfectly all right. So how is it wrong for the MPAA to "violate a software license?" According to you guys, pirating is okay.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    7. Re:Not the first time by Martin+G.+1984 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suspect you are trolling, but I'll reply anyway. This is about the MPAA showing their own hypocrisy in regard to copright. If anything, this whole incident would be proof that copyright is dying in the digital world.

    8. Re:Not the first time by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      Maybe if I post that the MPAA were caught red-handed drowning kittens and leaving the toilet seat up I can be modded "informative" too?

      Well, of course they left the toilet seat up! Why bother drowning the kittens if you don't get to watch them spiraling to their dooms?

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    9. Re:Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I suspect you are trolling, but I'll reply anyway.

      Gofuckyourself.

    10. Re:Not the first time by Syberghost · · Score: 1

      Maybe if I post that the MPAA were caught red-handed drowning kittens and leaving the toilet seat up I can be modded "informative" too?

      How can you equate "leaving the toilet seat up" with "drowning kittens"? My god, man, only a MONSTER would leave the toilet seat up!

  4. How hard is it to check the license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    At least *I* make sure that "grep GPL /dev/dvd" gets a match before I copy a DVD.

    1. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thats not the issue really. The issue is that strict copyright law is basically unenforcable. This isn't 10 rich guys and 30 lawers going, "Muwhahaha", this is some web team figuring that they're no different from the thousands of other coders like us that break the occasional license unbeknownst to our bosses.

      If anything, this is like the futility to pointing out that MPAA or RIAA heads' family members pirate content. At the end of the day, what are people against the copyright lobby fighting for? Some say downright incorrect prosecution, which obviously happens, but underneath it all, its the result of a lack leniancy and less strict laws. The only reason that breaking a "Linkware" license is news is because of it highlites that copyright laws are, in the end, only selectively enforced, not because of some organizational hypocricy. The hypocricy basically is unintentional, and to me, thats really what the problem is. Its not some blatent flogging, its just the old adage of the impractibility of ensuring that those around you practise what you preach. Getting onto that soapbox and being adamant about how you live your life is in no way an argument against an organzation that is hypocritical for the very reason that it is not one single person but a large organization of people. Its like some company saying that j-walking in all cases, always, everytime, hurts their bottom line; it'd take you less than 10 minutes if you had full access to everyone at a company to spot apparent hypocricy, but that wouldn't be the time to point out, "Hey, *I* don't j-walk." Its not revelent, because at some point, the eagerness of enforcement is more relevant than the actual law.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    2. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The issue is that strict copyright law is basically unenforcable. This isn't 10 rich guys and 30 lawers going, "Muwhahaha", this is some web team figuring that they're no different from the thousands of other coders like us that break the occasional license unbeknownst to our bosses.
      It's not that strict copyright law is unenforceable, it's the fact that the culture overwhelmingly looks at copyright as a minor violation.
    3. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Selanit · · Score: 1

      It's actually really bizarre that they didn't pay even after the software's author emailed them to say "Hey, no fair, pay up." I mean, the MPAA represents an industry making billions of dollars a year ... and they couldn't be bothered to cough up a measly 25 quid? The British pound may be one of the strongest currencies in the world, but twenty five of them ain't gonna break the MPAA's bank. I guarantee, the cost of this public relations snafu is gonna be way more than that.

    4. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by SirSlud · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Chicken, meet egg.

      I was ready to flame but have ultimately decided that its the same thing. Culture sees it as a minor violation because the current legal definition of copyright is unenforcable. Its a minor problem precisely because going after every violater leads to two conclusions: its rights granted by current copyright law are too strong, and most people know somebody that should be locked up for violating it.

      Its pretty much the same thing. My original post was more about saying that if, as an individual, you don't violate it, you might as well suggest that it'd be okay if wearing green coloured shirts were illegal because you don't own any green shirts. The fact is that peopel violate copyright law all the time, and if we had some magical transporter that put all these folks into jail right this minute, society would cease to function.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    5. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      I guarantee, the cost of this public relations snafu is gonna be way more than that.

      I hate to burst your bubble, but email me in 6 months with the "I told you so" if you're right. This is the cost of doing business, and whatever flak they take from this will pale in comparison to financially ruining people who didn't even violate the law in the first place months ago. And those actions are taken under the "cost of doing business" reasoning to begin with. This is a really nit-picky kind of story if you're trying to make a case against the absurdity of copyright law and how the RIAA and the MPAA are running amok.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    6. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by nixkuroi · · Score: 1

      ...this is some web team figuring that they're no different from the thousands of other coders like us...

      Nah, they're not like us...we still have jobs. :)

    7. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by edwardpickman · · Score: 1

      Copyrights are unenforceable because most aren't obeying the law. If the speed limit is 55 and everyone goes 65 then the speed limit is unenforceable. People forget the copyright system largely worked up until home computers and the internet. It was the ease with which people could circumvent the law that changed things not the law itself.

    8. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not that strict copyright law is unenforceable, it's the fact that the culture overwhelmingly looks at copyright as a minor violation.

      In the age of digital copies, strict copyright law is unenforceable.

      Regular theft leaves evidence behind - the stolen item is gone - you know you have been robbed. Stealing a copy of something leaves behind no evidence. If you do not know it has been stolen, you can not even begin to start looking for the thief.

      Someone is likely to pipe in that there is evidence of theft - the stolen item/copy itself. Before that someone starts piping, ask yourself just how many crimes are investigated because the cops found a guy with stolen items versus how many are investigated because something went missing? I am going to SWAG and say at least 1:10,000 maybe even 1:100,000, which is about as good an example of unenforceable as you are going to get. Of course those 1 out of 10 thousand cases have about a 100% success rate, but that's only because the crimes are already solved by the time they are discovered.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    9. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by CryBaby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This isn't 10 rich guys and 30 lawers going, "Muwhahaha", this is some web team figuring that they're no different from the thousands of other coders like us that break the occasional license unbeknownst to our bosses.

      Astounding -- you knowingly expose your employer to legal liability by violating software licenses *and* you're a programmer? Did the whole "Free Software" thing that comes up on Slashdot every once in a while just sail right over your head or what?

      You are in a much smaller minority than you apparently think. Between the habitually law-abiding, the regular folk who value their paychecks, and those of us who actively advocate Free Software, no programmer I know would use any software in their company's products or services without researching the license, much less intentionally violate a license.

    10. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by kevinbr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "....Stealing a copy of something leaves behind no evidence...."

      Over and over.....copying is not stealing. It is copying. There is a difference. The powers that be LOVE when people call copying stealing. If I steal an object - you no longer have the object. If I copy an object, you still have the object. Copyright is a givernment granted monopoly so what I am doing in copying is ignoring your monopoly. What I actually do with that copy then defne the damage that potentially could occur to your income from that copy.

      I grew up copying my friends albums on tapes. We all bought stuff, but no one bleated then about stealing. We called it sharing.

      How many people out there are buying NOYTHING and only aquiring music via copying. Very few I would imagine.

    11. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 0, Troll

      If I steal an object - you no longer have the object.

      There's nothing in the definition that declares that the owner no longer has the object. Stealing is simply when you take something that doesn't belong to you. You can take copyrighted materials.

      Piracy IS theft.

      How many people out there are buying NOYTHING and only aquiring music via copying. Very few I would imagine.


      Well, that settles it! kevinbr of Slashdot imagines very few. That justifies piracy and making sure artists don't get paid today.
      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    12. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Impeachment: It's not just for blow jobs

      No, it's for lying to grand juries under sworn oath.

    13. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by RKThoadan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And yet I have gotten a speeding ticket for going 65 in a 55 before, and the RIAA / MPAA is getting tons of money from those they are threatening with lawsuits. Sure, they can't get everybody, but that doesn't mean it's unenforceable, it just means it's less likely that it will be enforced for any given transgression. In fact, it is quite easy for them to enforce them when they choose to.

    14. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Funny

      "....Stealing a copy of something leaves behind no evidence...."
      If I copy an object, you still have the object.

      You've restated what I wrote almost verbatim, thank you for your contribution.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    15. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by svunt · · Score: 1

      I make no claim to knowledge of the actual numbers, but I've never met an IT pro who'd never broken a license, or used some dodgy software at work at SOME point.

    16. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by damienl451 · · Score: 1

      It's *also* unenforceable. How many people do you think download things off the Internet? I'd say tens of millions, and that's only in the US. If all those people had to be prosecuted or sued, we'd probably have to build several new courthouses and hire a legion of judges just to handle those cases. That would be impossible. Therefore, the **AA decide to go after only a few offenders, to show the world that they mean business and that you shouldn't feel protected by the "anonymity" of the Internet.

    17. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by muellerr1 · · Score: 1

      Culture sees it as a minor violation regardless of its legal status. If not, how do you explain how culture sees marijuana usage as a minor violation yet the legal penalties are extremely stiff? Making statements about something as vague as 'culture' is pretty meaningless without a better definition of what you mean by 'culture'. Do you mean the laws that supposedly govern what that culture should be like, or do you mean what actual people generally think? Both are a part of culture yet what people generally think and what the laws tell them to think are not always the same thing.

    18. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by westlake · · Score: 1
      it's the fact that the culture overwhelmingly looks at copyright as a minor violation.

      "The" culture or "Our Geek Culture?" There can be a difference, and, in a population of 300 million, a differece that matters.

    19. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      It's not that strict copyright law is unenforceable, it's the fact that the culture overwhelmingly looks at copyright as a minor violation.


      Which is why the best thing that we could do would be to make it so. Copyright should follow societal norms, not try to alter them. It's not important enough a subject to have the government dictate norms to us over. It's more like Prohibition than Desegregation.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    20. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      No, not really.

      Stealing a copy would deprive the owner of the copy of that copy. Making a copy is quite different, and would deprive the owner of the original copy of nothing. The earlier poster was not saying substantially the same thing as you were.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    21. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Wizard+Drongo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hate to respond to that, but..
      Me.

      I don't have much money. I'm poor. I'm also a student with a fair amount (probably around $30,000 USD) in student loans i'll be paying back for a fair while.

      I don't waste my money on something that I'll probably only listen to a few times. I occasionally buy dvd's, usually out of the bargain bucket in Tescos, since my taste in film is for good films, not the mass-market drivel pumped out nowadays.

      I don't buy music. Waste of money. In the past I have downloaded a fair amount. If, due to legalities or actualities I was no longer able to do so, I'd go without. I can live without others thoughts on the world; I have my own thoughts, impressions and music to fill the void if I have to. I have on a few occasions download music from iTunes, usually something that particularly moved me or inspired me. I didn't mind paying for this, given the price was minimal (about what I think reasonable to cover their overheads and bandwidth) and it didn't waste any more resources. CD's cost a huge amount in resources, oil for the plastics, various other chemicals for the binder etc, energy to create and process these raw materials etc., distribution and packaging costs. All for a hunk of data I can copy from a server safe in the knowledge that apart from the energy needed for the transfer, I've not contributed to the rape of the planet, since the server was already there, and even if it wasn't, one server can serve billions of songs in it's life.

      I judge that as being morally and ethically superior to buying CD's in a shop and supporting these nazis in their quest for more money.

      --
      The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
    22. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by mstahl · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's nothing in the definition that declares that the owner no longer has the object.

      Yes, there is. The very definition of theft requires there to be intent to deny someone of their property. From the Oxford American Dictionary:

      Steal take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it
    23. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Funny

      This isn't 10 rich guys and 30 lawers going, "Muwhahaha"

      You've never been to a Movie Studio board meeting have you.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    24. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) writes:

      Regular theft leaves evidence behind - the stolen item is gone - you know you have been robbed. Stealing a copy of something leaves behind no evidence. If you do not know it has been stolen, you can not even begin to start looking for the thief.

        kevinbr (689680)

      Over and over.....copying is not stealing. It is copying. There is a difference. The powers that be LOVE when people call copying stealing. If I steal an object - you no longer have the object. If I copy an object, you still have the object. Copyright is a givernment granted monopoly so what I am doing in copying is ignoring your monopoly.

      The powers that be call it stealing because under the law - that is what it is. This usage goes back decades, and in some cases nearly half a millenia. Grow the fuck up and drop the sophmoric word games to pretend that you aren't breaking the law.
       

      I grew up copying my friends albums on tapes. We all bought stuff, but no one bleated then about stealing. We called it sharing.

      It doesn't matter what you call it - not one bit.
       

      Someone is likely to pipe in that there is evidence of theft - the stolen item/copy itself. Before that someone starts piping, ask yourself just how many crimes are investigated because the cops found a guy with stolen items versus how many are investigated because something went missing? I am going to SWAG and say at least 1:10,000 maybe even 1:100,000, which is about as good an example of unenforceable as you are going to get.

      The ratio doesn't matter at all. The fact that you can be prosecuted for having someone elses goods inexplicably in your possesion matters, the fact that the law exists, and can be enforced matters.
       

      Of course those 1 out of 10 thousand cases have about a 100% success rate, but that's only because the crimes are already solved by the time they are discovered.

      Actually - they aren't 'solved by discovery'. The cops/prosection have to prove that the goods in question were stolen. Again, you confuse sophmoric word games with how the law works.
    25. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Danse · · Score: 1

      Making statements about something as vague as 'culture' is pretty meaningless without a better definition of what you mean by 'culture'.

      I think he's distinguishing between law and culture here. This makes sense, as we've seen many many instances throughout history where the law ends up being out of step with the current culture. Sometimes it's due to the law being out of date, and sometimes its due to certain powerful interests passing laws that conflict with the current culture. In this case, it's both really.
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    26. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by vic-traill · · Score: 1

      ....Stealing a copy of something leaves behind no evidence...."

      Over and over.....copying is not stealing. It is copying. There is a difference.

      You know, I've seen this statement a number of times, and I like it. My problem is that I don't think it is strictly the case.

      I go to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) when in doubt. (Those of you who doubt that the OED is the definitive reference for the English language, check out the footnote below 1).

      The first definition (sense d) in the citation for Steal, verb, is in conflict with the assertion above. I've removed the quotations and tried to retain the time-line of references so that we could see this is no johnny-come-lately definition, but the formatting got kooky too quick, so let it suffice to say that the first reference is in 1275.

      steal, v.1

      I. To take dishonestly or secretly.

      [ ... ]

      d. In wider sense: To take or appropriate dishonestly (anything belonging to another, whether material or immaterial).

      Comments/questions/tomatoes?

      1 If you don't care for the OED, give Simon Winchester's 'The Meaning of Everything' a read. It's a testament to the hubris of the Victorian Englishman, made all the more amazing by the fact that they pulled it off, albeit a little later than the originally estimated ten years (turned out to be 71 years). And I was boggled as to how dissertations were completed using typewriters when I had the good fortune to discover LaTeX whilest undertaking my grad thesis - these guys (and gals, check out the contribution of the Thompson sisters) did it with lined paper and pigeonholes! It really is an accomplished jewel of literature, and interestingly enough, only recently has its model been reused - look at how the democracy of Wikipedia maps onto the process of creating the OED. I was reading recently about Citizendium, and it occurred to me the Wikipedia is evolving in the direction of the original OED model ...

      http://www.amazon.com/Meaning-Everything-Oxford-En glish-Dictionary/dp/0198607024 (Apologies for the ad-laden link ... mea culpa).
      --
      [17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
    27. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      The powers that be call it stealing because under the law - that is what it is.
      Absolutely false, go look up USC Title 17 none of the words 'theft,' 'steal' or any of their variations are mentioned even once in the body of statutes - the best you get is the sensationalist title of one statute that is mentioned in a footnote. So, under the law that is clearly not what it is.

      The ratio doesn't matter at all. The fact that you can be prosecuted for having someone elses goods inexplicably in your possesion matters, the fact that the law exists, and can be enforced matters.
      Hey pipe-boy - stop trying to play word games and get it right - being UNENFORCEABLE has nothing to do with whether a law is on the books and everything to do with the practicality of enforcement. You've confused sophomoric word games with how the real world works.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    28. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by multisync · · Score: 1

      I grew up copying my friends albums on tapes. We all bought stuff, but no one bleated then about stealing. We called it sharing.


      I think you are remembering things through rose-coloured glasses. The record companies howled about that kind of thing. In Canada, they successfully lobbied the governement to impose a blank media tax on cassette tapes, much like the blank media tax on CDs today.
      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    29. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by servognome · · Score: 1

      Over and over.....copying is not stealing. It is copying. There is a difference. The powers that be LOVE when people call copying stealing. If I steal an object - you no longer have the object. If I copy an object, you still have the object. Copyright is a givernment granted monopoly so what I am doing in copying is ignoring your monopoly. What I actually do with that copy then defne the damage that potentially could occur to your income from that copy.
      So call it music counterfeiting instead, still doesn't make it right. The nature of information requires special laws to handle it. Look at all the laws set up to prevent me from accessing (let alone copying) your personal information; Shouldn't the law only punish me if I use the information to commit fraud (don't call it identity theft)? Does anybody argue that because information wants to be free ensuring privacy is impossible and we should give up?
      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    30. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      Piracy IS theft.

      Well, that settles it! OCG of Slashdot say piracy IS theft. The capitalisation of "is" proves it.

      Thanks OCG!

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    31. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by malfunct · · Score: 1

      This is completely unscientific in nature and I don't have links to the articles to prove what I read but there was some interview of middle to early high school students and some very high percentage of those interviewed did not buy cds and instead they "got music from the internet". Given that only 22 iTunes songs downloaded per iPod sold you probably won't wonder what those children meant by "got music from the internet".

      --

      "You can now flame me, I am full of love,"

    32. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by delinear · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't make it right, but it does make a difference. By using the terminology of a more serious, criminal offence 'they' are trying to engineer a more negative opinion of copying in the mind of the public who, generally, don't really care about copyright. Not only that, they are trying to make a civil offence sound like it's actually a criminal offence, to engineer a false concern as to the possible consequences of violation.

      If copyright is, in and of itself, an offence worthy of public abhoration, then why fudge the definition to make it sound more serious? Just state the facts as they exist and let the public decide how they feel about it.

    33. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by delinear · · Score: 1

      I'd say "the" culture. In fact, from what I've seen people in the "geek culture" tend to be more aware of copyright and the issues surrounding it (though that doesn't necessarily make them less liable to breach copyright). To the average guy or girl on the street, having a friend give you a copy of their CD or borrowing a copied movie just isn't an issue at all. Maybe on some level they know it's wrong, but I've seen little evidence that people care.

    34. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's the fact that the culture overwhelmingly looks at copyright as a minor violation. In the scheme of this life, my friend, it is a minor violation.
    35. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I grew up copying my friends albums on tapes. We all bought stuff, but no one bleated then about stealing. We called it sharing.

      No, you didn't.

      The term "sharing" as applied to copyright infringement came out of computer networking terminology. Originally shared network resources (such as hard drives) were referred to as "Shares". When P2P software, originally in the form of bots on IRC, came about, they borrowed and twisted that terminology a little to refer to the content of the drive (in addition to the drive itself) as "shared files". This usage has stuck since.

      Copyright infringement never has had any resemblance to "sharing", sharing a {record|tape|CD} in the past meant two or more groups alternating ownership of the media, during which time the other parties wouldn't have it physically in their hards. What you're referring to would have been referred to as "copying" by the people who did it. They never called it sharing. It wasn't sharing, it didn't resemble sharing, and that term came about via a different route.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    36. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      It's called sharing the cost.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  5. Maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    the author should extort the RIAA for $10,000 per byte that was pirated.

    1. Re:Maybe... by log0 · · Score: 1

      Or, better yet, extort the MPAA.

      Then again, the RIAA never bothers to check if they've got the right victim so why should anyone else?

  6. It looks like a replay by iminplaya · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It looks like a replay of the times when Hollywood was flaunting the Edison patents. Anything new here?

    --
    What?
    1. Re:It looks like a replay by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      All fixed, Thanks...

      Now, everybody sing along...

      This response
      Was not like the other
      Where the "Flamebait" mod
      Truly belongs
      If I'd noticed
      The transposition
      I would not be
      Singing this song

      --
      What?
  7. Who's laughing now! by DimGeo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who's the pirate now, MAFIAA?

    1. Re:Who's laughing now! by tepples · · Score: 1

      MAFIAA makes no sense. It's "Music And Film Industry Association of America". Where do you get the spelling "MaPhiAA"?
  8. Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you hold the MPAA to the law on this, then it is a tacit acknowledgement that I.P. is a valid thing. You can't have it both ways, Slashdot.

    1. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by DA-MAN · · Score: 1

      If you hold the MPAA to the law on this, then it is a tacit acknowledgement that I.P. is a valid thing. You can't have it both ways, Slashdot.

      Some call this fighting fire with fire. It's the way the industry works. For example, Linux would be in some serious IP hell from Microsoft if IBM and others didn't have it's army of lawyers ready for a Battle Royale.

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    2. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about whether or not anyone supports or opposes copyright law. The MPAA has claimed in public that copyright infringement is immoral and unethical. Their motivation for doing this is obvious: If they inform the public that some action is illegal, while the public thinks there's nothing wrong with the action morally and ethically, then they risk having the law changed to reflect the public's opinion. Convincing people that they have the moral/ethical high ground ensures that they can continue to benefit from the current legal system, or even lobby successfully for stricter measures in their favour.

      Remember their ad campaign:

      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A HANDBAG
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A TELEVISION
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A DVD
      DOWNLOADING PIRATED FILMS IS STEALING

      The message that they are obviously trying to advance is that copyright infringement is stealing, and therefore is immoral, unethical, and illegal. However, their blatant disregard for the exclusive legal rights of others under copyright law demonstrates the hypocrisy of this claim to the moral and ethical high ground. It shows that even the people behind the MPAA are not themselves convinced that the issue is as simple as "copyright infringement is stealing". How, then, do they expect the rest of the public to be convinced?

    3. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      They wrote the rules.

      It's childish, but at least tit-for-tat retribution points out the hypocrisy.

    4. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      If you hold the MPAA to the law on this, then it is a tacit acknowledgement that I.P. is a valid thing. You can't have it both ways, Slashdot.

      Stop being ridiculous. Slashdot is not one person. Slashdot is a diverse group of users and is entitled to hold a diversity of opinions.

      The MPAA, on the other hand, is a single legal entity. It is the MPAA who cannot have it both ways. Yet somehow you seem to think that what's okay for the MPAA is not okay for Slashdot. For you to hold Slashdot to a stricter standard than the MPAA is, quite simply, mind boggling.

    5. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for taking the time to share your favorite movie "Dan Glickman Goes to Jail for Blogging Software Snafu" with us. We appreciate your interest in the Motion Picture Association and the motion picture industry. Your views are important to us.

      Being a Kansan formerly represented by Glickman, and having met him, they only have a big name in a high place. From Washington to the MPAA, all things seem equal.

    6. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by foobsr · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is not one person. Slashdot is a diverse group of users ...
      ...
      ... you seem to think that what's okay for the MPAA is not okay for Slashdot. For you to hold Slashdot to a stricter standard than the MPAA is, quite simply, mind boggling.

      What a mind-boggling waterfall of logic.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    7. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A HANDBAG
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A TELEVISION
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A DVD
      DOWNLOADING PIRATED FILMS IS STEALING
      I have one for them:

      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A HANDBAG
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A TELEVISION
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL ELECTRICITY
      UNSKIPPABLE CONTENT IS STEALING
      All electricity meters are sealed against theft of electricity (by tapping the mains before the meter).

      They are happy to run a 30 second unskippable advertisement at the beginning of a DVD which I have purchased expounding the illegality of stealing. Being unskippable they have STOLEN not only my time, but also the electricity required to run my DVD player and screen (and sound system). 30 seconds may not seem much, but when every time that disk is inserted causes 30 seconds of my time and electricity to be STOLEN (I definitely no longer have them) it soon adds up; not to mention that I'm not the only one who has purchased that disk and so the amount of STOLEN electricity soon adds up and makes them rather un-green, unenvironmentally friendly, not to mention the amount of STOLEN man-hours.

      And then there's all the unskippable copyright messages in various languages, most of which I can't read also STEALINGmy electricity (and time) - in this case a minute or two, or more. Again unenvironmentally friendly (especally when all the copies taken into account).
    8. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Wrong.

      It's called "poetic justice." It's the MPAA who can't have it both ways. If you expect others to toe the letter of the law and if you do your best to throw the book at anyone who, knowingly or not, was somehow involved in breaking an IP law, then you had better be very, very careful that you do not break IP law yourself.

      If you do, then you acknowledge that either IP law is so convoluted and out of touch with reality that it is in need of a rewrite (what I suspect most of the /. community argues) or that you think you are above the law (in which case you are in desperate need of a reality check to cut you back down to size).

      I'm probably a little unusual on /. in that I'm not inherently opposed to the concept of intellectual property--within reason. I believe that the author of an artistic work--movies, music, an actual software product--has the right to set the terms of use, and that if I wish to acquire such an artistic work, then I must abide by those terms. But I do agree that the MPAA is out of control, and I love the irony that they got caught with their knickers around their ankles this time. It will be very telling to see how they respond to this accusation. If they did violate the author's licensing then the honorable thing to do is to voluntarily provide the same compensation to the author that they demand from their victi^H^H^H^H^Htarge^H^H^H^H^H...bah...people who violate the MPAA's terms.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    9. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last line could be "Eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is stealing," and the argument would have as much validity. Don't the twits writing this junk know about falacious methods of argument? (And the lameness filter which prevents quoting CAPS above in plaintext sucks, Slashdot Overlords).

  9. Patrick Robib? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's Patrick Robin.

    1. Re:Patrick Robib? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Robib is the disciple of Mua'Dib, the savior of Dune.
      Or maybe he works at a foreign tech support center.

  10. Middleman? by noidentity · · Score: 1

    What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of the code available, without any references to the original author? How in general can one tell whether one is getting the original code with intact copyright notices?

    1. Re:Middleman? by devilspgd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of Epic Movie available, without any references to the original author? How in general can one tell whether one is getting the original movie with intact copyright notices?

      --
      Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
    2. Re:Middleman? by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of the code available, without any references to the original author? How in general can one tell whether one is getting the original code with intact copyright notices?

      That's what I think whenever I download free music from the Internet: "Must just be a cover band releasing their work for free." I've never seen or heard any copyright notices on Free Internet Music, after all...

    3. Re:Middleman? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of Epic Movie available, without any references to the original author?

      It'd still be awful, but we wouldn't know who to blame.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    4. Re:Middleman? by devilspgd · · Score: 1

      Do you think that would stop the MPAA from considering everyone involved to be guilty?

      --
      Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
    5. Re:Middleman? by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of Epic Movie available, without any references to the original author? How in general can one tell whether one is getting the original movie with intact copyright notices?

      I'm quite worried about that you know. To protect ourselves from this kind of inadvertant violat^Wthef^Wgang-rape-of-nuns, what we really need is some kind of mechanism which stops you removing copyright notices. Well, I suppose that probably ammounts to stopping you editing the thing at all. Some kind of system for managing rights in general, in fact. Digital rights. We could call it Digital Rights Management. It's for your own good you know.

      - MAFIAA shill #71426

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    6. Re:Middleman? by dosboot · · Score: 1

      In copyright law if the defendant can show that it was reasonable for him to assume that he was not infriging then he only has to pay 'actual damages', which would be the cost of however many copies of the work were made.

  11. well yeah.... by Grinin · · Score: 1

    Its ok for the MPAA to steal whatever they want, duh!

    Its not ok for you to download crap that you wouldn't have paid to see in the first place.

  12. Civil (not criminal) by cdn-programmer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In spite of the fact there is criminal legislation in place for copyright infringment, I expect the prosecutors will look the other way and declare it to be civil. This will just be another example of the double standard.

    As a civil issue ( the only other legal avenue ), you can only hope to obtain justice through the courts. It will cost $1000's to get a judgment, perhaps $100,000's. There is no justice. All we have is persecution it would seem with the powerful pretty much doing whatever they like with impunity.

    While its not fair, the question any prosecutor is going to ask is if spending the taxpayers money on this is a good idea. Of course, spending the taxpayers money prosecuting a person charged with a traffic incident is always considered a good idea because its cheap (usually) and meant to keep the sheep in line and paying the fines.

    Am I a cynic?

    1. Re:Civil (not criminal) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a criminal offense and must be prosecuted as such.

    2. Re:Civil (not criminal) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's not. Up yours.

    3. Re:Civil (not criminal) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This will just be another example of the double standard... There is no justice. All we have is persecution it would seem with the powerful pretty much doing whatever they like with impunity. Sad, but true.

      Am I a cynic? Does it make a difference?
    4. Re:Civil (not criminal) by Josef+Meixner · · Score: 1

      I am not so sure about that, though. The author seems to be from Great Brittain, so he probably could sue before a British Court. The website is accessible in GB and so the MPAA is violating the British copyright.

      But honestly I think we shouldn't step down to the low standard of the MPAA. I think firing off the email and making it public is probably the right way. Afterall the MPAA relies on its public image and if more and more details surface about them not being a honest party it might inflict much bigger harm to them in the long run. In contrast to all the public traded companies the MPAA represents we don't have to fullfill a 3 month plan to make money and so we can wait.

      I think we should give the MPAA enough rope to hang itself. The RIAA already looks rather tangled up in wires they spanned themselves.

    5. Re:Civil (not criminal) by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      In spite of the fact there is criminal legislation in place for copyright infringment,

      It's not clear that copyright violation is occurring - because it is not clear that a linkware 'license' is a valid one under the law.
    6. Re:Civil (not criminal) by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      If the linkware license isn't valid, then the MPAA didn't have ANY license to use the software, so they were violating copyright BEFORE they removed the links.

    7. Re:Civil (not criminal) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People, the basic concept of copyright is very simple... why do so many persist in getting it wrong?

      An author or copyright holder may put whatever conditions he/she pleases on distribution; it is, after all, the point of the thing. Should you not want to accede to said conditions, your relief is to not make copies of the work.

      Should something about a license be so egregious that a court would find it unenforceable, it would revert to standard copyright law, which makes it illegal to distribute the work for anybody but the copyright holder.

      Let's just make that real clear for y'all, shall we? If a license were to be found invalid (highly unlikely, I don't know why so many believe it's liable to happen) the work covered would be illegal to copy/distribute for everybody but the copyright holder. Period.

      It doesn't become public domain, and it doesn't become open season for anybody and everybody to use and distribute as they see fit. Can we please put that particular adolescent fantasy to bed now?

    8. Re:Civil (not criminal) by mpe · · Score: 1

      It's not clear that copyright violation is occurring - because it is not clear that a linkware 'license' is a valid one under the law.

      If the 'license' is invalid then it's absolutly the case that copyright infringement did take place. Since the default situation is that you need the permission of the copyright holder to make a copy.
      But these people went much further than simply copying they also apparently removed copyright notices and identification of the author from the code. Which makes this look like intentional software piracy.

    9. Re:Civil (not criminal) by mpe · · Score: 1

      An author or copyright holder may put whatever conditions he/she pleases on distribution; it is, after all, the point of the thing. Should you not want to accede to said conditions, your relief is to not make copies of the work.

      Or to negotiate directly with the copyright holder. The point of attaching a distribution licence to a work is that it is generally both to the advantage of third parties and the copyright holder.

      Let's just make that real clear for y'all, shall we? If a license were to be found invalid (highly unlikely, I don't know why so many believe it's liable to happen) the work covered would be illegal to copy/distribute for everybody but the copyright holder. Period.

      It would also depend of the original licence terms, a court case may amend something like "... if A or B ..." to "... if B ...". Especially if the original text states something to the effect of "If any part of this is found to be against the law of the land, then the rest still stands."

      It doesn't become public domain, and it doesn't become open season for anybody and everybody to use and distribute as they see fit. Can we please put that particular adolescent fantasy to bed now?

      IIRC this is also SCO's belief. Though it probably would be quite just for a court to say "all of your stuff is in the public domain, now" to anyone who even tried to use this as a defence for copyright infringement.

  13. Contact MPAA about piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here, I suggest contact MPAA about the whole piracy issue and point them to the offending party; themselves.

    http://www.mpaa.org/ReportPiracy.asp
    Please feel free to let them know about their own transgressions.

    1. Re:Contact MPAA about piracy by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      It's always fun to flood the MPAA with information about vicious acts of piracy.

      I made sure to point out that not only did they infringe Forest Blog's copyright on every page view, they also stole advertising revenue from Forest Blog that would have been generated by the links that were removed from the MPAA's blog, causing at least as much financial harm as "stealing" copies of DVDs. I think the author probably has a reasonably strong civil claim to get that money back, which would hopefully pull in plenty of statutory damages for each act of infringement too.

    2. Re:Contact MPAA about piracy by asylumx · · Score: 1

      That's a good idea -- why don't you taunt them so they'll come after you next?

    3. Re:Contact MPAA about piracy by mpe · · Score: 1

      Here, I suggest contact MPAA about the whole piracy issue and point them to the offending party; themselves.

      Remember also to mention "This film is not yet rated" and any other examples you can find.
      It's also interesting that one of their catagories is "PARALLEL IMPORTS". They also greatly abuse the term "theft". About the only time the word is actually used correctly is "THEATRICAL PRINT THEFT". Wonder what they mean by "SIGNAL THEFT"...

  14. Fair use? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps the MPAA considered it "Fair Use"--after all, they were modifying the pages for their own personal use...

  15. Here's the MPAA response: by All_One_Mind · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the next blog post on the authors site:

    Well, I must say I'm surprised;to after getting no response to my previous emails to the MPAA about their use of Forest Blog at the tail end of last year I got a result within five hours this time, unless they were just replying to the original email?

    Anyway, thanks to Paul Egge and Richard Kroon the situation has now been resolved and they've removed Forest Blog from their web server.

    1. Re:Here's the MPAA response: by devilspgd · · Score: 2, Informative
      From the blog's update...

      Here's a section of the email I received from Richard who I think is the Director of Application Development ast the MPAA:

      The material has been removed from our Web server.

              * No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
              * The blog was never assigned a domain name.
              * The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
              * The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
              * The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
              * Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.


      Okay, great -- So the question is, how did Patrick become aware of it? If it wasn't linked, assigned a domain name, advertised to the public, and only for testing, why was *anyone* aware of it?
      --
      Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
    2. Re:Here's the MPAA response: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you feel like reading the article...
      >> Way back in October last year whilst going through the website referals list for another of my sites I stumbled across

      He got it from his server logs.
      I'd guess someone working on it viewed it prior to removing all the link backs.

    3. Re:Here's the MPAA response: by Mistlefoot · · Score: 1

      Read my post above.

      It's not in Google or the Wayback machine nor does google find the information post on screen caps - ie the title of the blog.

      This at least does make sense. It does not exonerate the RIAA. But it does seem to make sense.

    4. Re:Here's the MPAA response: by scsirob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If that is really their reponse, go ahead and substitute the word "Blog" with "Song", and throw it back at them. Maybe a very dim light will start to glow in their puny little minds.

      Simply the fact that they went through the trouble of removing all the links and pictures tells me that this was a blatant attempt to scr*w the author out of his 25 Pounds. No-one goes through the trouble of doing this *ON A PUBLIC PRODUCTION WEBSERVER* just for testing.

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    5. Re:Here's the MPAA response: by devilspgd · · Score: 1

      MPAA, not RIAA (Yes, I'm being pedantic)

      However, regardless, if a single person other then the individual who modified it managed to view it, a copyright violation occurred.

      --
      Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
    6. Re:Here's the MPAA response: by rizole · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I have deleted the downloaded Britney off my hard drive.
      • I didn't upload it.
      • I didn't tell anyone on my blog
      • I didn't tell anyone in anyway
      • Britney was only ever on my hard drive as a proof of concept
      • Britney was only for testing purposes
      • Should I have decided to listen to it, I would have paid the ten pounds for the pysical media and would have authorized me to listen to it without DRM...no wait...
    7. Re:Here's the MPAA response: by mpe · · Score: 1

      If that is really their reponse, go ahead and substitute the word "Blog" with "Song", and throw it back at them.

      Maybe "Movie" or "TV Show" :)

      Maybe a very dim light will start to glow in their puny little minds.

      Assuming they came fitted with irony circuits. And these didn't burn out when they started producing better fiction about "pirates" than the entertainment which is ment to be their primary product...

      Simply the fact that they went through the trouble of removing all the links and pictures tells me that this was a blatant attempt to scr*w the author out of his 25 Pounds. No-one goes through the trouble of doing this *ON A PUBLIC PRODUCTION WEBSERVER* just for testing.

      More to the point no-one does this by "accident". These are the delibrate actions of someone who knows that they are enguaging "piracy". Interestingly most of the people the MPAA are making a fuss about tend to leave things such as credits and title sequences in. I.E. they don't try to pass off their warez as their own work!

  16. You don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you want the MPAA to hang for this, you must also call for all the movie downloading pirates to hang as well. To not do so would be hypocritical, and having selective morality. It's called "practicing what you preach".

    1. Re:You don't get it. by Jehosephat2k · · Score: 1

      But that is what is being promoted from the legal-eagles anyway. F 'em.

    2. Re:You don't get it. by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see neither hung. However while the MPAA continues to try to sue people, then I'll support them getting hung.

    3. Re:You don't get it. by DA-MAN · · Score: 1

      If you want the MPAA to hang for this, you must also call for all the movie downloading pirates to hang as well. To not do so would be hypocritical, and having selective morality. It's called "practicing what you preach".

      I've never advocated that movie pirates get away with it, nor am I a movie pirate. I have an TiVo Series 3 (~$800 + Lifetime Transfer), pay for over 120 on cable per month and have a massive DVD collection. All I'm saying is that if they are stealing other peoples IP while going around suing downloaders the they need to practice what they preach.

      Are they not the ones running around suing????

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    4. Re:You don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wrong. Pointing out the MPAA/RIAA/MAFIAA is not living up to the version of rules it sues grandmothers over does not require me to believe in the rules the MPAA/RIAA/MAFIAA sues grandmothers over. The MPAA/RIAA/MAFIAA is the one doing the preaching. Pointing out the MPAA/RIAA/MAFIAA is engaging in selective morality does not mean I have to believe anything the MPAA/RIAA/MAFIAA does is moral. Nice try.

    5. Re:You don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, are you the MPAA webmaster?

    6. Re:You don't get it. by greenbird · · Score: 1

      I think you need a better understanding of the word hypocritical. Wanting to hang everyone for copyright violations but doing it yourself and thinking you shouldn't be punished is hypocritical. Wanting to hold someone to there own standards when they violate copyrights isn't hypocritical. It's justice.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    7. Re:You don't get it. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      No, we want the MPAA to hang because we see that they abuse the legal system and use mafia-like tactics to extort money out of people who are caught violating copyright. How it happens is not so important, but to be able to hang them for a violating copyright themselves does have a bit of irony to it.

  17. Re:Done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Already been done. I will contact the BSA in the morning as they most likely have all sorts of unlicensed software from BSA members laying around.

  18. traditionalist thinking by drDugan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've concluded that the traditionalist forces and thinkers (read: MPAA, "follow the rules without question simply because they are the rules and everyone follows them") are evolved in such a way as to be unable to adapt once the traditions have been set. Such people simply need to die off more quickly now that the world is changing more quickly thus significantly reducing overall conflict. Rather horrifying, but an unavoidable conclusion.

    1. Re:traditionalist thinking by beyondkaoru · · Score: 1

      personally i think that we should instead give everyone eternal life, so that they live long enough to have their stupid decisions bite them in the rump. if that happens, i think that we'd suddenly have a much wiser and flexible society. the longer someone lives, the greater the chance that they'll experience something to make them change their mind. in order to have a society with eternal life, it is i think most important for people to learn to learn from their mistakes, and that that's not just for kids.
      there are, um, technological barriers to that currently, but it could change someday.

      --
      the privacy of one's mind is important.
      you do have something to hide.
    2. Re:traditionalist thinking by drDugan · · Score: 1
  19. Apply MPAA logic by mattr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One respondent to TFA suggested using the MPAA's own logic against them in court. Another suggested suing them in small claims court which is apparently much easier.

    I submit that a software author is the same as a music CD author on an artistic level, perhaps more so since he does not have all the studio people to massage his work into something palatable.

    If this artist is left on his own, he could make some cash in small claims court, or at least his 150 pound license fee if he is not the litigous sort perhaps.

    However I think this is also a very good opportunity for a big guns lawyers supplied perhaps by the EFF to find the paper where the MPAA writes down its killer legal strategies, and tear it up into tiny pieces, much as IBM is doing to SCO.

    Equate software to music. Equate running softare or viewing a webpage as a "performance" in the legal sense. Use MPAA rules. Since the license costs about $100, calculate based on a 300% markup over a $35 average MPAA cd price. The sum will be punitive damages for theft, plus the 300% of what the MPAA sues for a song, plus the price of a "performance" multiplied by the number of visits to any of the blog's pages, based on the evidence of the MPAA's server logs which is must produce in court. Although this sounds over the top, it is simply using the same non-common-sensical strategy the MPAA is using in court, and I think a judge and jury might just see justice in that, or at least a reason not to throw the case out.

    I think this ought to net a nice award for the author.

    When you think about it, SCO has lasted this long because it is like a pathogen that bends the organism that is the legal system to its intent, far beyond the realm of common sense: If they don't show the infringing code it is common sense that they ought not be able to argue beyond that. The MPAA also also exhibits pathogenic qualities; it sues its own customers for such outrageous sums that it is not only beyond common sense, you have to wonder if their worth is based more on legal games than actually what their members sell. Unless we take advantage of such amazing incidents as this one and use their own weapons against them, it will just continue. We now have a chance to stir up some talk about whether the MPAA is also over the top, and what to do about it.

    1. Re:Apply MPAA logic by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Another suggested suing them in small claims court which is apparently much easier.

      It might be, if it were even possible. You can't sue anyone for copyright infringement in small claims court. There is exclusive federal jurisdiction for copyright suits, which means you'd have to go to federal district court.

      Equate software to music. Equate running softare or viewing a webpage as a "performance" in the legal sense.

      First, why? What possible advantage would that get you? Second, that is not likely to work. Merely running software could only infringe the reproduction and perhaps derivative rights, but there's an exception under 117 which may well be applicable here. Viewing a webpage is pretty much reproduction only. Having a globally-accessible webpage could be considered a performance or display (depending on precisely what it consisted of) but the present caselaw leans toward distribution instead. But it could be a moot point anyway; this author didn't write the web pages at issue, he wrote the program used to write the web pages. Portions of the page are based on his work, but probably not enough, given the whittling-away effects that a decent lawyer could achieve by using things like merger and scenes a faire, to matter much.

      Since the license costs about $100, calculate based on a 300% markup over a $35 average MPAA cd price. The sum will be punitive damages for theft, plus the 300% of what the MPAA sues for a song, plus the price of a "performance" multiplied by the number of visits to any of the blog's pages, based on the evidence of the MPAA's server logs which is must produce in court. Although this sounds over the top, it is simply using the same non-common-sensical strategy the MPAA is using in court, and I think a judge and jury might just see justice in that, or at least a reason not to throw the case out.

      No, it sounds utterly moronic.

      There are two ways to compute damages for copyright infringement suits. First, you can get actual damages and profits. This means you get money in the amount you were actually damaged (in this case a paltry sum, since the software was available so cheaply) and also in the amount of net profit realized by the defendant that is attributable to the infringment (Gross profits, and profits that are attributable to other sources don't qualify). Since this is MPAA's blog, there are likely to be no awardable profits. Maybe $1 as a token sum.

      The other way is statutory damages, which range from $750 to $30,000 per work infringed, and can go down to $200 or up to $150,000, depending on certain factors. But you have to have registered your work within a certain time limit in order to be eligible for this, and although I don't know either way, I'd be willing to bet that this work wasn't registered within the time limits. That means these damages would not be available.

      RIAA does bother to register their works, however, which is why they routinely ask for the maximum amount of statutory damages ($150,000 per work infringed) which can add up if you infringe on a lot of works.

      The crap you're talking about is just that; made up crap without a basis in reality. You don't get to arbitrarily name figures and multiply them by whatever. And there isn't even any such thing as punative damages in copyright, so that's out the window too. RIAA has a solid basis for what they do, even if you don't like it and don't understand it. You don't.

      I think this ought to net a nice award for the author.

      The reality is that this is probably not worth suing over; the author would probably lose money or at best break even. The best strategy is probably to write a nasty letter and then ignore it. A victory wouldn't be hard to get, but wouldn't be worthwhile either.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    2. Re:Apply MPAA logic by Txiasaeia · · Score: 1

      It might be, if it were even possible. You can't sue anyone for copyright infringement in small claims court.

      But according to the MPAA itself, downloading films is stealing. If downloading films is "stealing," it stands to reason that downloading software is "stealing" too. Wonder how that would hold up in small claims court.

      --
      Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    3. Re:Apply MPAA logic by spike1 · · Score: 1

      Besides which, who's to say you can't sue for copyright infringement in the small claims court?
      I don't know what the general rules on small claims court use are, but I see no reason why copyright infringement should be excluded as long as the award at the end is limited to the small claims limit.
      The "£edoral government" has absolutely nothing to do with it. And why would they?
      Just because the MPAA is an american organisation?
      Rubbish. They broke the law in a different country by "stealing" (their definition) something from the UK.
      The fact the injured party charges in £ rather than $ for he use of his software proves that.

    4. Re:Apply MPAA logic by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      But according to the MPAA itself, downloading films is stealing. If downloading films is "stealing," it stands to reason that downloading software is "stealing" too. Wonder how that would hold up in small claims court.

      The euphemism they use for copyright infringement has no bearing on anything. How would it hold up in court? It would get you laughed right out of court.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    5. Re:Apply MPAA logic by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Besides which, who's to say you can't sue for copyright infringement in the small claims court?

      That would be the United States. 28 USC 1338 gives exclusive original jurisdiction to the federal district courts in "any civil action arising under any Act of Congress relating to ... copyrights." Meanwhile 17 USC 301 has preempted virtually all state copyright legislation, making the federal copyright system pretty much the only game in town. The United States has the power to do these things by virtue of the Congressional power to establish inferior federal courts (which is inclusive of regulating their jurisdiction), the copyright power, the supremecy clause that lets them override laws of the states that conflict with constitutional federal laws. The limits of these powers and the fifth amendment guarantee of due process don't prevent this; it isn't even arguably unconstitutional.

      Given all of that, there are very, very few copyright cases that manage to be heard in state court. It only ever happens if 1) it has to do with a non-preempted state copyright law, of which there are very few, and 2) if the case only tangentally involves copyright but really is about something else, and that a copyright is involved has no bearing whatsoever on anything; it could just as easily be eggs, or wrenches, or something. And even then, state courts are often cautious and will kick the case out, feeling that it needs to go to federal court anyway.

      Of course, that's all if you want to sue them in America -- which is a great place to sue people, we're very plaintiff-friendly, and people often try to get suits brought here to take advantage of our discovery rules, etc. If you want to sue them in the UK, then I have no idea how that works procedurally. But I can tell you that since the MPAA (which is not the same thing as its members) probably does little business there, and has few assets there, it probably would not be worthwhile, since you wouldn't be able to collect much, if anything, regardless of which court you went to.

      OF course it might not matter much. While I can't be sure without knowing more of the facts in the case, I doubt that statutory damages would be available here, and there's simply little money to be had in the realm of actual damages and profits, since this software isn't worth a great deal.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    6. Re:Apply MPAA logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for your considered thoughts on this issue. You are right, I am neither a legal expert nor have I deeply explored the issue concerning the RIAA or MPAA beyond reading the news. However I have worked in photo licensing for major agencies for 5 years and actually do licensing of content including print and film.

      I am not aware of what is possible under the current U.S. law. However I think some people might be interested in assigning a positive cash value to a page view, if the page is generated using stolen software, and in calculating what the log file says that sum is.

      It certainly was worth more than $1 to the company to put up a blog. There is the amount of money they invested in their engineer who installed the blog, and who used the blog update mechanism daily or however many times that was.

      There is also lost income in that the blog must link back to the software author, IIRC, and if the author can provide the amount of income he has made versus the number of links from other companies running his blog, then a rate of blog links to income can be found. That multiplied by hits to the blog itself would be a non-moronic estimate of lost income.

      Finally, the blog serves PR value and is used in place of other PR activities and/or to supplement them. For example if they publish the address to their blog, or have links to it elsewhere on their site or in newsletters, that is further value delivered by stolen software. Your suggestion that software is cheap at 150 pounds is also incredible. Obviously it is priced for smaller companies to be able to afford it. The idea that in fact it is really only providing less than $1 of value is unbelievable, regardless of the idea that it also is conveying valuable information created by the site owners. Is this reasoning based on statutory damages only being applicable to music or movies under U.S. copyright law?

      There is also the issue of this involving a British company. The U.S. company stealing the software took advantage of the author residing abroad and perhaps not figuring out that they were using his software it could be argued. There is also the intentional removal of his name apparently too.

      If software can be equated as a work with music in the courtroom, then the court can calculate their own damages of course. If they are exactly equal, then a 150 pound price compared to the price of a CD would appear to make it worth more than a CD. If not registered then would the software author not also be able to claim statutory damages? You are right I do not understand but then nobody else does either, in this case.

      Your conclusion that writing a nasty letter would be the best idea sounds bizarre. It would probably be easiest to have his lawyer write a business-like letter to their lawyers and demand his money plus damages for theft. And they may have an affiliated office in the UK as well. As for what someone can win in court I'll leave to you and the other lawyers. It does not seem reasonable however that music and film can obtain such huge awards beyond the realm of common sense (not your common sense, that of the rest of society) when other media works including software do not despite indeed being similar to a song being played over and over for every website visitor, if not exactly in scale, in addition to performing useful work. If the RIAA chooses to "mix" their content with that of the author like a rap star without permission that is not reducing the worth of the blog either. I think the graphic design and eminent utility of a piece of web software is certainly worth defending against theft especially from rapacious, hypocritical organizations and the labels hiding behind them, and there are some other people who I think would agree.

    7. Re:Apply MPAA logic by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      $35 average MPAA cd price
      Umm wut? I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again: where the hell do you guys shop that a DVD is $35 on average? If WalMart sells that DVD for $18 bucks (which it does for the average DVD), then anything you're paying beyond that is not the MPAA's price, but BestBuy/SamGoody/etc.'s price.
    8. Re:Apply MPAA logic by IAmGarethAdams · · Score: 1

      All very nice and interesting, but the subject of the debate is based in England, and therefore nullifies most of your legal details (although not the general assuptions)

    9. Re:Apply MPAA logic by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      However I think some people might be interested in assigning a positive cash value to a page view, if the page is generated using stolen software, and in calculating what the log file says that sum is.

      Which is great, but not really feasible. In a copyright suit, you can either sue for a) actual damages and profits, or b) statutory damages. If you are using the former theory, then the only way that you can get paid per page view where each page is generated in some infringing manner is if you can show that you are actually damaged by each page view. And it can't be just any kind of damage, it has to be a properly attributable damage. You end up having to calculate how many users of the total number of users at issue would've given money to the plaintiff but didn't because of this. The number of users is probably less than the number of page views. The number of users who, but for the removal of the links, would've given money to the plaintiff is probably far, far less. What you don't get to do, if you're suing for actual damages and profits, is sue for purely hypothetical damages. Similarly, the profits need to be the profits attributable to the infringement. If MPAA can show that some of their profits are attributable to something else, anything else, then those are excluded. I doubt that they made any profits attributable to this infringment, and so a nominal figure of a dollar for the profits portion of the damages calculation seems likely to me (not knowing all the facts, I admit). The actual damages could be more, but probably not very much, given how low click-through rates are, etc.

      It certainly was worth more than $1 to the company to put up a blog.

      Maybe, but it's irrelevant, unless you can work it into actual damages and profits. You could argue that they profited by using this software instead of something more time-consuming and difficult to install, but they could counter if there's something quicker and easier that is otherwise an acceptable substitute for what they were doing. That's because the profits at issue are net profits, not gross profits; infringers are allowed to deduct costs from that part of the calculation.

      Your suggestion that software is cheap at 150 pounds is also incredible.

      Oh? The one amount of actual damages he knows he can get is the cost of the software. Everything beyond that depends on factors outside his control -- how many people looked at the blog on the MPAA site, of those, how many would've gone to his site, of those, how many would've become his customers, of those, how much would they have paid, etc. -- and strikes me as being likely to result in a rather small amount. The amount of MPAA profits attributable to their infringement seems to me to be so small as to make a token dollar seem reasonable.

      Given that the costs of going forward are likely to far outweigh a mere £150, I'd say that there is a very real chance that if he went to court he would easily win, but end up poorer than when he began. It might be a moral victory, but it's hard on the wallet, and if I were him, and I didn't have any better alternatives to that outcome, I wouldn't bother. A nasty letter is cheap to send, but beyond that it would be self-defeating.

      Of course, I don't know the precise facts, and a lot hinges on them. Perhaps he could end up covering his costs and making a substantial sum in the process. I don't know. The best thing this guy can do is to find out without delay.

      Is this reasoning based on statutory damages only being applicable to music or movies under U.S. copyright law?

      No, statutory damages is available for software and for web pages, but there are procedural requirements to be eligible for this. If this guy is eligible for them, then they are by far his best bet. But I'd have some concerns over that, and it seems likely that he will need to act immediately lest he lose the opportunity to get statutory damages.

      There is also the issue of this involving a British company. The

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    10. Re:Apply MPAA logic by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      No, the potential plaintiff is in England. The defendant -- and more importantly, the vast majority, if not all, of the defendant's assets -- are in the US. If a suit were brought, I'd be surprised if it wasn't in US courts, pursuant to US law.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    11. Re:Apply MPAA logic by mattr · · Score: 1

      Thank you again for your very informative replies. Certainly a lot of information I did not know about rules for seeking statutory damages, what the phrase "nasty letter" means in legal circles, etc. (not that I'm an expert on nasty letters but I didn't know that).

      Without trying the software myself I'd expect it would take the organization maybe $5K to build similar functionality that meets all their needs, it is actually not so easy to find exactly what you want.

      I do admit a feeling that software designed to make work easier or that enables activities like blog PR does provide value continually when run that is separable from the content of the posts themselves. This may not be borne out by current law. It is my guess that a business model for private software developers to sell on the Internet source code is not greatly protected by the law, or if it is then most developers don't know how to take advantage of it. Being generally incensed at the RIAA and MPAA anyway I would find it poetic justice to see them bitten, and considering the number of page views it would somewhat parallel the way they already make money from performances of music/film.

      But of course, much of this is a gut feeling and of course that is why there are lawyers, to separate that from the reality of a legal code. Not withstanding the maxim of not to get legal advice on slashdot, I appreciate your clarity and taking the time to respond in depth. I'm not going to beat a dead horse anymore, but I do hope the author has a lawyer and is able to get paid for his work.

      Thanks again,

      Matt Rosin

    12. Re:Apply MPAA logic by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Without trying the software myself I'd expect it would take the organization maybe $5K to build similar functionality that meets all their needs, it is actually not so easy to find exactly what you want.

      Maybe. It depends on what they were doing with it, but I expect that there are plenty of adequate programs already on the market that would have sufficed. They happened to choose this particular one, but they'd want to show that there were alternatives. Of course, I don't know what their needs are, and I know nothing about blogging software, so it's unclear.

      I do admit a feeling that software designed to make work easier or that enables activities like blog PR does provide value continually when run that is separable from the content of the posts themselves.

      Sure; if it saves time as compared to the most likely substitute, then use the time delta to compute their monetary savings, which could be factored into net profits, as this is a reduction of costs.

      It is my guess that a business model for private software developers to sell on the Internet source code is not greatly protected by the law, or if it is then most developers don't know how to take advantage of it.

      No, it is protected just as much as anything else. What I'm saying is that in most situations, actual damages and profits don't yield very large amounts. Sure, if someone infringes on your screenplay and makes a movie that grosses hundreds of millions of dollars, then it's the way to go. But if one person pirates a copy of a CD, it's nearly pointless. This situation is more like the latter than the former. That's part of the reason why statutory damages are desirable for authors, but you have to do certain things in order to be eligible for them. I don't know if this author has done these things, or still has an opportunity to do these things (there's a time limit). But if he can, he probably ought to.

      I do hope the author has a lawyer and is able to get paid for his work.

      I agree.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  20. Sue them by Jehosephat2k · · Score: 1

    He should sue them into oblivion. $100M

  21. sue for damages by timmarhy · · Score: 1
    sue them for $1000 for each post claiming it's lost revenue. after all theres no telling how much work or job offers this guy has lost due to the lack of exposure from them removing his links. it's the exact same reasoning they use when sueing people for p2p traffic.

    taste that? it's irony

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  22. Here's the "/." response: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other words when informed they do the correct thing about it. Now contrast that to slashdot's response to license violations. "Whaaa! He's too young. Whaaa! Give him a slap on the wrist. Whaaa!"

    1. Re:Here's the "/." response: by NormalVisual · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other words when informed they do the correct thing about it.

      How many of the targets of **AA action were afforded the opportunity to just say the same thing - "okay, sorry, I took it down, and it wasn't really meant for public consumption anyway, so we didn't do anything wrong", as opposed to being on the wrong end of a settlement demand?

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    2. Re:Here's the "/." response: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, they didn't do the so called "right" thing. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of their own law for their transgression. If I torrent a movie and I get caught, can I simply delete it to solve the problem? No. you can bet your ass that the MPAA will jump into court as soon as the can and charge me with the highest crime possible, like dickwads. And to the allogations of WAAAAAAA! they should not even be charged. If I tell a friend about the movie, it can be as good as watching it. Forget about the entire copyright law thing.

    3. Re:Here's the "/." response: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, my boss got a letter from the MPAA demanding he take down any and all violating material (apparently they caught him d/ling "V" via bittorrent). They didn't sue or anything, and he never heard anything else.

    4. Re:Here's the "/." response: by mpe · · Score: 1

      If I torrent a movie and I get caught, can I simply delete it to solve the problem? No. you can bet your ass that the MPAA will jump into court as soon as the can and charge me with the highest crime possible,

      Possibly the one thing they wouldn't want would for the case to actually come before a judge though...

  23. Re:Did I miss the memo? by timmarhy · · Score: 1
    actually dipshit, it is free, but they can't even stick to using someone elses work for free and abiding by the copyright holders license, which states they must leave logo's and links back to his website intack.

    so it would appear the mpaa doesn't think their own rules don't apply to them.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  24. MPAA existential dilemma by mattr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    P.S. Personally I think there is a major problem with the existence of an industry association like the MPAA and it being able to generate limitless lawsuits against customers on behalf of its members. I say Sony or Toshiba EMI ought to be required to do the suing, and see if they really have the stomach to do it and get caught out.

    As it is now, the MPAA appears to exist for the sake of making lawsuits; its profit is based on the success of the lawsuits, and it is presumably paid by its members the startup cash needed to hire all those lawyers, to generate enough income to eventually make the lawsuit engine self-sustaining. Sounds like Microsoft/Baystar and SCO doesn't it? Or a recent RAM patent company?

    When Sony embeds a rootkit they get clobbered with bad PR, and when EMI's copy protection sucks they get clobbered. Conversely, when EMI considers removing all copy protection they get even more, positive, PR. But when the MPAA sues soccer moms, the record companies seem to be wearing some kind of armor. All the bad PR sticks to their stalking horse, the MPAA. (Which like JASRAC in Japan has been the number one impediment to online distribution.)

    I say the MPAA is a menace to the public and serves no purpose other than to make frivolous lawsuits on the behalf of big record companies while insulating them from the media. It does not exist to protect authors at all, but rather seeks to cause enough mayhem to scare people from trying other distribution mechanisms, by grabbing "rights" that never previously existed for music before the digital age. This is remembered well by anyone who grew up with cassettes or 8 track tapes.

    I posted elsewhere in this thread that the MPAA's logic should be used against them to generate a huge award for the theft and performance of the Forest Blog software for a potentially huge number of page views. This model, in which a software author is granted the same rights as a music author, turns software downloading and web page views into something much more insidious than trite torrent sharing, in a legal sense. So I think now is a good time not only to make a legal case against the MPAA, but in fact to start aiming at them with big cannons like RICO and public opinion. Let the record labels do their own dirty work and pay for it individually when their customers get mad.

    1. Re:MPAA existential dilemma by Der+Reiseweltmeister · · Score: 1

      I say the MPAA is a menace to the public and serves no purpose other than to make frivolous lawsuits on the behalf of big record companies

      With the amount of people who have already pointed it out, you'd think people would begin to get which one the RIAA is and which one the MPAA is. (hint: think audio-recordings vs. Movies)

    2. Re:MPAA existential dilemma by mattr · · Score: 1

      Sorry. I contracted them both to MAFIAA and then just said MPAA for some silly reason. Perhaps RIAA would make better sense here but same goes for both I believe. Customers get to judge the artistic strength of an author, not the legal system, so it should not matter if you write software, a novel, or a song. It is my impression that the two organizations do similar things to similar people.

    3. Re:MPAA existential dilemma by Der+Reiseweltmeister · · Score: 1

      Indeed, these lawyer-companies are really impossible to tell apart. My new favorites are the ones that buy debt from third world countries before its written off and then sue for the value + interest. I really don't understand where these companies get the nerve.

    4. Re:MPAA existential dilemma by mpe · · Score: 1

      As it is now, the MPAA appears to exist for the sake of making lawsuits; its profit is based on the success of the lawsuits, and it is presumably paid by its members the startup cash needed to hire all those lawyers, to generate enough income to eventually make the lawsuit engine self-sustaining.

      It rather depends what assets the MPAA itself has. If it has assets it can itself be sued (or counter sued). There are also things such as "Anton Piller Orders" (or similar) which can be employed against it.

  25. Re:Did I miss the memo? by Jehosephat2k · · Score: 1

    Realistically, it doesn't. They are the masters, and the public are their slaves. Get used to it. That is what Corporate Amerika is all about.

    This guy won't get a penny. If anything, HE will be found of violating the MPAA's "rights". That is how it works folks.

  26. Update on his site by creativeHavoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    http://www.patrickrobin.co.uk/default.asp?Display= 5 The MPAA claim that it was in use only privatly and they had no advertising. Good to know. If they ever come knocking, I will tell them I watched the movies and home and never sold them to anyone.

    --
    insight through the mind
  27. Read the update as well by Rogerborg · · Score: 3, Funny

    The material has been removed from our Web server.
    • No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
    • The blog was never assigned a domain name.
    • The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
    • The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
    • The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
    • Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.

    ORLY? Note the lack of anything resembling an apology. Also, I must remember that defence when I get a P2P Tax demand from them: "Oh, sure, I copied your memebers' work, but only for testing purposes, and now that I've been caught, I can totally assure you that I intended to buy licensed versions."

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:Read the update as well by Soko · · Score: 1

      Save that. Legal precedent, for all to use. You'd make a good lawyer.

      Soko

      --
      "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
    2. Re:Read the update as well by Barny · · Score: 1

      Not to mention admission that they used the software, the guy has a very easy court case ahead of him now.

      God I would love this.

      [blockquote]
      I didn't post any links to my torrent tracker, nor did I intend its use for anyone but testing internal to my home, the fact that "thepiratebay.org/torrentspy.com/anyothertracker.w hatever" some outside sources managed to access it is purely accidental.
      [/blockquote]

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    3. Re:Read the update as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But MPAA, I was planning to get a license to distribute your movie online shortly after you discovered me doing so. Honest!

  28. Rejoice! by toejam316 · · Score: 1

    We now have a plausable defense vrs organisations like the MPAA! "You! You did xxxx with our video, we demand compensation! etc.etc." "No. I used it privately!" "Foiled." Yay! Download like mad!

  29. No, we get it. by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We want to remind the MPAA that "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." If the MPAA wasn't complaining about other people's copyright infringment, then I wouldn't complain about its. But it is, so I will. Get it?

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  30. Oh, the M.A.D. for Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Some call this fighting fire with fire. It's the way the industry works. For example, Linux would be in some serious IP hell from Microsoft if IBM and others didn't have it's army of lawyers ready for a Battle Royale"

    Good thing Russia "gave up" before we did, else fighting "fire with fire" would have no winners.

  31. Did I miss the lesson? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "actually dipshit, it is free, but they can't even stick to using someone elses work for free and abiding by the copyright holders license, which states they must leave logo's and links back to his website intack. so it would appear the mpaa doesn't think their own rules don't apply to them."

    So what's the slashargument for today? "We're better than you!"* So how many here have copied the contents of another site contrary to the owner's wishes? The MPAA may be hypocrites? But the group doing the pointing is no better.

    *It sure can't be "we're worse than you." Or, "we're the same as you".

  32. SUE THE TITS OFF THEM by SUROK · · Score: 0

    Sue the tits off them, sue them for everything they have

  33. Story isn't up to date by Ace905 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just so everybody knows, this story does have a happy ending. The MPAA responded, finally, to his inquiries after a very long wait - by saying essentially that they were only using his software for 'testing' purposes and that the offending site was never made live, advertised on the internet etc.

    The Forest Blog Author retorted, in his update to this story, that he doubts they would have been so kind if he 'borrowed' some movies for 'testing' purposes but never distributed them to anybody. He makes a valid point.

    The entire trial over those dvd-codec software coders was based on them 'circumventing' a DVD's protection mechanism - it had nothing to do with them actually committing piracy, and were it not for the Digitial Millenium Copyright Act the MPAA would have had no case at all. Essentially they sued and won, establishing for the first time in history that you can purchase intellectual property but essentially not have ownership of the rights to even use it, however you see fit.

    Remember that all laws previous to the DMCA were to protect against piracy, (bootlegging, distribution, etc). But now the DMCA actually limits your freedom of use, even for personal use. And it's been proven. If they can do that, why can they abuse fair-use of software they essentially got just by agreeing to it's terms of use?

    I say he still send his case to the EFF and hope that they can use something in this as ammunition against the MPAA.

    ---
    DMCA Doesn't Protect Against This!

    --

    Ace
    1. Re:Story isn't up to date by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      I suspect, just Like Wal-Mart when busted for having illegal alien cleaning crews, the MPAA will use the 'Shocked, Shocked!' defense - and blame their subcontractors. The well known lesson in Evil Corporate Land: never break the law when you can hire someone else to 'take the initiative'.

    2. Re:Story isn't up to date by Genda · · Score: 1

      "The Forest Blog Author retorted, in his update to this story, that he doubts they would have been so kind if he 'borrowed' some movies for 'testing' purposes but never distributed them to anybody. He makes a valid point."

      Sorry but this simply doesn't wash... if you're testing an application, you use it as is, plug and play, and begin doing your analysis to determine if it's suitable for your needs. The MPAA went to the trouble of surgically removing all trace of the codes author and it's copyrighted status. This is not a part of any standard testing procedure I've ever heard of... (and I am a software QA engineer.) Plain and simple... shame on you cheesy scumbags, your hand is caught in the cookie jar, your hipocracy is clear for the world to see, and no amount of smoke and bullshit will hide the fact that you are liars and cheats. At least have the common decency to own up to your profound bogosity... anything else just makes you appear even more disgusting.

  34. There is a difference. by bheekling · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The point of the article and what everyone is hollering about is that the MPAA is not practising what they are preaching. This makes it seem as though they will selectively apply the concept of IP to further their own interests.
    Besides, the guy had released the thing for free on a Linkware license. How difficult is it to retain backlinks in the source code? Or even pay the mere 25 pounds he was asking for a commercial license?

    --
    "..."
    1. Re:There is a difference. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see. A DVD that costs around 10 pounds that if I was to download the contents of...how much would the MPAA be going after me for when they found out? The 10 quid? Nothing if I had said that I had decided that I ddn't really want it and deleted the copy? Or something like 300-1000+ quid?

  35. The Big Picture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, take a deep breath and look a few steps ahead of the finger pointing.

    Every person who just blasted the MPAA for "violating the author's copyright" is being recorded and researched by the MPAA and RIAA. They will then build a case against you based on all the songs/movies you have downloaded, all the CDs/DVDs you have burned, and every iPod purchased with your credit card (including the one you bought for Aunt Sally's birthday), and when they get you up on the stand and you say, "what I did was not wrong," they will pull out this post, exhibit 326b, in which you passionately stated that it is wrong, immoral and illegal to violate copyright. Open. Shut. Call the next lemming to the stand.

    1. Re:The Big Picture by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

      This is totally true, as demonstrated but this excerpt of a typical court case that didn't use the /. post as evidence method.

      MPAA: Is it true you downloaded these movies?
      Defendant: Yes, but I don't feel that it's morally wrong.
      Crowd: *gasps*
      MPAA: Fuck. Well I guess we don't have anything on you, you're free to go.
      Defendant: Really? I didn't expect that to make a difference legally
      Judge: There's a clear precedent in Vice City vs. Tommy Vercetti. He didn't feel his rampant killings were morally wrong, so we let him back on the streets with a clean record... several dozen times.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  36. DMCA by dekkerdreyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Simply send a DMCA take down notice to their ISP requesting that the site be taken down because it is infringing.

    --
    Dekker Dreyer
    1. Re:DMCA by Shemmie · · Score: 1

      That would have been the best idea, IMHO. A DMCA take-down notification to the host of the MPAA - oooo, I'm getting tingley.

    2. Re:DMCA by indaba · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which section of the DMCA are you claiming they are violating ?

      Here's a handy link so you can let us all know : http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.228 1:

    3. Re:DMCA by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Who the hell cares? It's a take down notice, which falls under 17 USC 512 -- which was part of the DMCA. It's used for any kind of copyright infringement. The DMCA did a lot of things, it's not all about anticircumvention, dumbass.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    4. Re:DMCA by dekkerdreyer · · Score: 1

      You missed the point, IT DOESN'T MATTER!

      I've sent take down notices for websites of people I don't like. They weren't infringing anything, but the ISP gets so many of them they don't have time so investigate each one. It's easier to just pull the plug and wait for the customer to bitch.

      --
      Dekker Dreyer
    5. Re:DMCA by indaba · · Score: 1
      so, let me get this right,.. the remedy you are advocating is a DMCA takedown notice for a website that is :
      - already down ?
      - or, may never have actually been up ?
      - is likely not be subject to US jurisdiction ? (hint, the author has a UK website)
      and where the loss is ~ 25 pounds ?

      Thankfully you don't give advice in the real world.

      Please note, I'm *not* saying that there isn't a breach of some sort here, either copyright or contractual. Just that the loss is negligible and not worth pursuing.

    6. Re:DMCA by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      the remedy you are advocating is a DMCA takedown notice

      No, it isn't. All I was doing was correcting someone's misunderstanding of the DMCA.

      However, on that subject:

      - is likely not be subject to US jurisdiction ? (hint, the author has a UK website)
      and where the loss is ~ 25 pounds ?


      Let's remember that the MPAA is subject to the DMCA, and that foreign authors are just as able to wield the DMCA against infringers in the US as anyone else. In this case it is the MPAA who is arguably the infringer. The amount of the loss is irrelevant. Frankly, the main reason I can imagine as to why the DMCA wouldn't really be of interest here -- assuming the site hadn't been pulled down anyway -- is that while the software used to generate the site is the author's work, it is possible that the site itself is not.

      But it's pretty moot, and like I said, I never advocated using the DMCA in this matter. I only pointed out that you don't have to violate any of the prohibitions of the DMCA in order for a 512 takedown notice to be sent.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  37. Re:so what ? - his theoretical loss is only 25 pou by semiotec · · Score: 2, Insightful

    what hole have you been hiding in? RIAA has been claiming damages to the tunes of %750 PER SONG, I have no idea how much MPAA has been claiming. The point is both about the amount and not about the amount. It's about that the MAFIAA have been claiming that piracy has put such a dent in their God-given right to make tonnes of money, that they should be asking for such disproportionate amount of damage to cover their losses. And YET, when THEY are the ones "stealing" other people's work, all of a sudden, it's not such a big matter? Do you think the MAFIAA would let people get away if they just say that they never put links to the songs they downloaded, they never publicised it and it was purely for personal use?

  38. *PAA by yoprst · · Score: 1

    Mean Pirate Assotiation of America? Who's gonna come up with better M* word?

    1. Re:*PAA by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      Merry

    2. Re:*PAA by Robber+Baron · · Score: 1

      Motherfucking

      --

      You're using her as bait, Master!

  39. Re:so what ? - his theoretical loss is only 25 pou by hughk · · Score: 2, Funny

    And a DVD costs what? 12 bucks or so.

    --
    See my journal, I write things there
  40. Re:so what ? - his theoretical loss is only 25 pou by freedom_india · · Score: 4, Informative

    You are wrong. Here's why and also how a Good Lawyer can sue and win atleast 1.2 million dollars from MPAA.

    First, the fact that MPAA violated his license. According to the DMCA under section 1204 penalties range up to a $500000 fine...

    Next, each visitor to MPAA pages could have been a POTENTIAl licensee of the software. This POTENTIAL was lost by the author since no link backs were provided. Assuming a good lawyer subpoenas' MPAA website administrator and gets a total of number of visitors to the page(s) from date of violation till date of verdict, takes a very conservative estimate that atleast 50% of the people visited could have licensed the software, (same calculations that MPAA uses to send take-down notices and suits for damages), the author can easily claim atleast $1.2 million.

    Now, once the case goes to court, by that time it has been proven MPAA had violated his copyright. The judge would have no qualms declaring MPAA guility under DMCA. The second play is for more damages outside the $5000000 fine.

    If only 1,000 visitors visited the site since the day of violation the fine would stand reduced, however i bet it is more.

    A more serious lawyer can pursue it even further and argue that since the MPAA in its role as a guardian of digital copyrights has ITSELF violated the DMCA (thus a case of fence eating the flock), it must be criminally tried and asked to pay a more amount as fine to the poor author.

    One sympathetic judge is enough to screw MPAA in this case.
    I would say, first get a GOOD lawyer.

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  41. Reduntant blurp. by Fizzl · · Score: 1

    and had completely violated his linkware license by removing all links back to the Forest Blog site, not crediting him in any way. The MPAA blog was using the Forest Blog software, but had completely stripped off his name, and links back to his site.


    Stupid blurp. If it doesn't have 100 words, no need to forcefully add them by adding reduntant content.
  42. Re:so what ? - his theoretical loss is only 25 pou by indaba · · Score: 1
    No, actually, you are wrong. Here's why.

    > First, the fact that MPAA violated his license. According to the DMCA under section 1204 penalties range up to a $500000 fine...

    Well, putting aside the rhetoric, this is a simple breach of contract case.

    As you correctly point out, Section 1204 of the DMCA does indeed carry the potential for hefty fines. But not for the simple breach of contract action this would be. Section 1204 is the penalty for breaching Sections 1201 and 1202.
    See here.. : http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c105:6:./tem p/~c105awNRih:e52661

    So what are 1201 and 1202 ?
    `Sec. 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems
    `Sec. 1202. Integrity of copyright management information
    See here .. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.228 1:

    So, you claimed breach of the DMCA is baseless.

    How about your theory of loss of income from potential licencees ? I think you are on very weak ground here because you will have great difficulty in proving certainty of the claimed loss and causation of the claimed loss on the balance of probabilities.

    This could be shown by discovery of the actual "conversion rate" of site visitors to licences bought from other such sites - eg the author's own site may prove to have a conversion rate that is exceedingly low.

    Your comment's re criminality are rubbish, and again rely on that incorrect breach of the DMCA.

    You do have one good point.
    I would say, first get a GOOD lawyer. - who I suspect would advise you to forget about the whole thing, and then send you a bill for $300.

  43. True, but not exactly true - follow up needed by Em+Ellel · · Score: 4, Informative

    After doing some similar research, I came to the conclusion it is either a clever marketing ploy by blog author, or more likely some hidden prototype site their web development team was using and as it was never linked from main page, it was never found by any spiders (yet referrers to authors site showed up in his logs, which is exactly how he found out about it), Turns out the latter is the case

    -Em

    --
    RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    1. Re:True, but not exactly true - follow up needed by Danse · · Score: 3, Interesting

      After doing some similar research, I came to the conclusion it is either a clever marketing ploy by blog author, or more likely some hidden prototype site their web development team was using and as it was never linked from main page, it was never found by any spiders (yet referrers to authors site showed up in his logs, which is exactly how he found out about it), Turns out the latter is the case

      Yeah, well they had it set up on a public-facing web server, accessible by anyone. You don't test software on a public server. Given that the MPAA is not exactly known for being a forgiving bunch, I don't think their excuses amount to much. If they had some public goodwill, I could see giving them a pass on it, but they seem to feel so strongly about copyright infringement that it just wouldn't seem right to let them off on this. I'm sure they would agree, right? If copyright infringement is so terrible, surely they should be facing a really hefty fine here, right? Maybe some jail time? If they're going to insist on strict enforcement, then they had better get their own affairs and people under some seriously tight control too.
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    2. Re:True, but not exactly true - follow up needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter if it was a prototype. They should have either left the logos, or paid the money to use it without accreditation.

      Just saying "we didn't mean it to be public, and we weren't going to use it anyway" is not an excuse. If it was, then I guess everyone they sue for movie piracy can legitimately use the exact same defence.

    3. Re:True, but not exactly true - follow up needed by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      That idea reminds me of the commercials on DVDs saying that piracy supports organised crime. Well based upon the actual historical track record and organised crimes well known willingness and even desire to invest in the RIAA and the MPA members media, after all, "sex, drugs and rock and roll" or "the casting couch" or the media industries well known addiction to cocaine etc, the opposite is far more likely to be true.

      So the actual reality is closer to this idea, that if you really want to hurt organised crime, you a far more morally compelled to pirate media and distribute it for free and as a result, cut off a substantial portion of their income.

      As a bonus, just think of all the 'artists' (well at least in their own minds) you will be saving from a life of drunken, drugged up depravity ;-) (instead they will look forward to long healthy life as food service professionals and as a double plus, we get to avoid the endlessly monotonous exposure to their aberrant behaviour).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  44. I'm sorry by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

    I just can't buy your argument here that anyone would ever willingly pirate Epic Movie.

    --
    meep
  45. Its sorta legit.... by Em+Ellel · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The article needs update

    short of it is:

    MPAA Response:

    The material has been removed from our Web server.

            * No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
            * The blog was never assigned a domain name.
            * The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
            * The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
            * The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
            * Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.


    --
    RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    1. Re:Its sorta legit.... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links. So, presumably, that means it's fine for me to download films created by MPAA members as long as I say I'll buy the DVD if I like them?
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Its sorta legit.... by borud · · Score: 1

      Given an analogous response in a movie piracy case: what would the MPAA do? Drop the issue?

      Hardly.

      -Bjørn

    3. Re:Its sorta legit.... by Em+Ellel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links. So, presumably, that means it's fine for me to download films created by MPAA members as long as I say I'll buy the DVD if I like them? First of all, bad choice of words on the title, I actually meant the claim against MPAA is sorta legit. But I'll bite and give you my thoughts on this. A better analogy would be "its ok to download films to watch a first few minutes and then say if I want to watch it, I would buy the dvd."

      The actual point of the software is to be used by large number of people to read/respond to postings - this was not done in this case, just an internal mock up of a site (which of course should not have been posted on a public website, but still).

      And despite my dislike of all things with AA in the title (sorry AAA, aardvarks) and given our collective thirst for revenge against THIS *AA, it does not seem to be THAT outlandish to use the software in this way, and even the author of said software agreed.

      -Em
      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    4. Re:Its sorta legit.... by B.D.Mills · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The material has been removed from our Web server.
      The MPAA are doing their best to destroy the evidence before they get served with court papers.

      * No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
      The blog was publically accessible.

      * The blog was never assigned a domain name.
      This is irrelevant to the MPAA's crime of copyright infringement. None of the allegedly pirated movies have domain names, either.

      * The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
      Criminals don't advertise their activities because law enforcement may notice.

      * The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
      It was also someone else's work that the MPAA was going to rip off.

      * The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
      The MPAA still breached the licence terms which do not have exceptions for testing purposes.

      * Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.
      Many of the copyright ingfringers the MPAA have sued have used the same defence. "We were going to pay but you caught us first".

      In short, the MPAA's alleged "defence" is pretty piss-weak, and had they offered it up in court, the counsel for the prosecution would have ripped them apart.

      The owner of the software did the wrong thing, however. By approaching the MPAA as soon as the breach was discovered, he made it easy for the MPAA to destroy the evidence and act as if nothing had happened. He should have gathered as much evidence as possible (preferably via third-parties, like the RIAA and MPAA do, which leave no suspicious entries in the server logs) and only when there was a lot more evidence should he have acted. The ideal time to act would be after the blog goes live, preferably after it's been running for a while. Then is the time to get a lawyer to serve notice of infringement, have the police seize the servers and so forth.
      --

      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
  46. Re:so what ? - his theoretical loss is only 25 pou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So basically your argument is that it is okay for the MPAA to violate another person's copyright. Wonderful. I don't know what they do in Australia (with your history and all) but in the U.K. attorneys provide the initial consultation for free. If this case is as open and shut as you say it is, there will not be the insult to injury bill you hypothesize. Nice guy you are.

  47. Don't fool yourself by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Anyone who thinks the MPAA (and the RIAA) are really concerned about protection of the creative rights of the artists is fooling themselves.

    The MPAA and RIAA are concerned about nothing more than maximizing revenues for the organizations they represent. Period.

    The mention of the artists is only to make it appear as if the MPAA and RIAA have some sort of noble purpose. The MPAA and RIAA represent the media content industry executives, not the artists.

  48. lol by jschwetz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    *By 2007, IDC Research expects Internet users will access, download, and share information equivalent to the contents of the entire Library of Congress more than 64,000 times every day.

  49. Justice by BCW2 · · Score: 1

    Use the perverted "law" that they created to penalize them. Turn the dog on it's master, what a perfect idea!

    --
    Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    1. Re:Justice by F34nor · · Score: 1

      "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad. "

        ---Euripides

      Well here's hoping! They did it to SCO right? Bush and Cheney also seem to be as crazy as shit house rats right now too.

  50. Just kill a few to make a point by Tomis · · Score: 1

    Back in ye olden times when they captured a known pirate, they'd hang 'em as an example for all. So why don't we just hunt down the members of the MPAA and make 'em an example for all to see eh? That'd stop their piracy for sure.

    I mean hey, if America can invade random countries for economic interest alone, heartlessly slaughtering thousands of innocent civilians, why can't the rest of us, y'know?

    You can only fight fire with fire.

  51. MPAA Arguments by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    From their letter:

    No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
    The blog was never assigned a domain name.
    The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
    The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
    The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
    Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.

    Remember #2 and #6, use it against them the next time the come knocking on your door. They violated his agreement ( and the law in general ) and ADMITTED it, yet its ok for them to do so because 'we were going to pay later if we liked it'. wtf? ( the internal use only arguement is irrelevant )

    Well fine, that means i can sample YOUR wares for testing purposes and pay later if i like it.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:MPAA Arguments by SUROK · · Score: 0

      from now on im going to openly pirate movies and download as many movies as i can off all sorts of file sharing sites and thenbuild up a library of every movie ever made and then wait for the mpaa to come ver and im just going to say sorry im just testing them.. to see if i like the movies enough to buy them

  52. DMCA where are you? by BobSutan · · Score: 1

    I guess the appropriate thing to do would be to contact their ISP and have the site taken down until the layers work out your settlement payment.

    Fat chance in that ever happening.

    --
    "On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
  53. Suggested Sentencing by Zotos · · Score: 1

    If convicted of copyright infringement, I recommend those involved at the MPAA be sentenced to 5 years of watching the FBI warning on copyright infringement, non-stop.

  54. You knew this was coming... by blakmac · · Score: 1

    In soviet russia, the MPAA pirates from you!!! ...oh wait...

    --
    http://wstewart.php0h.com - the sugarbuzz project blog
  55. New Defense Offered by WebHostingGuy · · Score: 2

    So, when they sue me for music sharing I can use the following?:

    1. No html links were ever pointed to my music
    2. My music was never assigned a domain name
    3. The music was never advertised to the public in any way (only privately)
    4. The music in the file sharing program was a proof of concept and never moved into production
    5. The music in the file sharing program was only used for testing purposes
    6. Should I have decided to make the move to production, then I would have paid the appropiate royalty fees

    --
    Quality Hosting e3 Servers
    1. Re:New Defense Offered by ArtDent · · Score: 1

      The MPAA won't sue you for music sharing, dude. Hint: the "MP" doesn't stand for "Recording Industry."

    2. Re:New Defense Offered by Em+Ellel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So, when they sue me for music sharing I can use the following?: Well, if they sue you for music sharing, I'd be surprised, they are MPAA, not RIAA. But since you don't seem to understand the difference between blog software and music, let me RIAA'lize your excuses

      1. No html links were ever pointed to my music The music in question was never placed in location it could be played back from.

      2. My music was never assigned a domain name The music was never burned to an audio cd or placed on portable music player.

      3. The music was never advertised to the public in any way (only privately) If you used any P2P app, this is probably a barefaced lie as most any P2P automatically advertise you sharing this file (thus P2P name) Although you can claim you only shared in a closed P2P system.

      4. The music in the file sharing program was a proof of concept and never moved into production The music in the file sharing program was a proof of concept and was never listened to.

      5. The music in the file sharing program was only used for testing purposes This one works on its own

      6. Should I have decided to make the move to production, then I would have paid the appropiate royalty fees Should I decide to actually LISTEN to this music, I would have purchased a license.

      Some of these are kinda weak, but you get the point. Music audience is you, software audience is NOT MPAA.

      -Em
      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    3. Re:New Defense Offered by WebHostingGuy · · Score: 1

      Your right, I wasn't clear in my post. I was using "they" as anyone who would sue me, not necessarily the MPAA in a humorous manner. Me bad. But it still raises the possibility of a defense based upon this.

      --
      Quality Hosting e3 Servers
    4. Re:New Defense Offered by h2g2bob · · Score: 1

      But it still raises the possibility of a defense based upon this.

      Somehow I think the lawyers will disagree....
  56. It was found, how? by wytcld · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If as the MPAA says there were never any Web links to the blog, then how did the author of the software stumble upon it? No Web links equals no search engine listings equals effective invisibility to the outside world.

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
    1. Re:It was found, how? by Em+Ellel · · Score: 2, Informative

      If as the MPAA says there were never any Web links to the blog, then how did the author of the software stumble upon it? No Web links equals no search engine listings equals effective invisibility to the outside world. The MPAA claim on this point is pretty easily verifiable via Google and Wayback machine. The way the author found out is via referrer logs on his own server, I guess the software had some hardcoded links. This is explained in the article BTW.

      -Em

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
  57. as the enforcer of copyright standards... by mliikset · · Score: 1

    ...??AA should reconcile this unauthorized use to their enforcement policies. Their unauthorized use is little different from what they are prosecuting and litigating from others. How to get people worked up enough to ask for something to be done, via legislative or judicial means?

  58. "Another" license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, the story is a troll. What was the "other" license they violated?

  59. We do the same with software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When evaluating software, often people just download the full version and crack it. It's against the license, but for evaluation purposes. Guess MPAA agrees that that's a valid approach. People also download movies to evaluate whether to purchase them or not, so the MPAA agrees that we should be able to as well.

  60. File a DMCA take-down notice on them... by rdean400 · · Score: 1

    The program code is copyrighted content, clearly being used in violation of the license. I think the author should get a lawyer and do a DMCA take-down to the MPAA's ISP.

  61. DMCA Takedown for MPAA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take that motherfuckers.

  62. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  63. If they can rip off our stuff.... by darrenkopp · · Score: 1

    Time to go download a movie and strip off the start of the movie where it shows the companies that produced the movie.

  64. Time to call in the laywers.... mwahahahahaha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine the punitive damages - this is a principal case and should have far ranging consequences.... Bleed them dry!!!

  65. How hard is it to "steal the ofject?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I grew up copying my friends albums on tapes. We all bought stuff, but no one bleated then about stealing. We called it sharing."

    Now you're just insulting people's intelligence. You know damn good and well there's a difference between your "sharing" and sharing a movie with the entire planet.

    "Over and over.....copying is not stealing. It is copying. There is a difference. The powers that be LOVE when people call copying stealing. If I steal an object - you no longer have the object. If I copy an object, you still have the object."

    The same could be said for cable, electric theft and even identity. The other half of theft that gets left out of these discussions is that you enjoy the benefit of usage, regardless of weither the creator has the original or not. Anyway I doubt all the people busted so far used your "but you have the original" excuse in court. Apparently courts don't like their intelligence insulted either.

    "How many people out there are buying NOYTHING and only aquiring music via copying. Very few I would imagine."

    Of course with a lack of evidence it's easy to "imagine" something in your favour.

    "Copyright is a givernment granted monopoly so what I am doing in copying is ignoring your monopoly."

    "Render unto caesars that which is caesars."

  66. Time for Justice by dasunst3r · · Score: 1

    I suggest that Patrick pushes an "update" that will detect whether the script is running on MPAA's servers or not; and when it is, it'll only show a picture (goatse or a parody of their "You can click but you can't hide") and talk about how hypocritical they are.

    1. Re:Time for Justice by atomic-penguin · · Score: 1
      I suggest that Patrick pushes an "update" that will detect whether the script is running on MPAA's servers or not; and when it is, it'll only show a picture (goatse or a parody of their "You can click but you can't hide") and talk about how hypocritical they are.

      Not only would that be unethical. It would likely result in criminal charges, and liability against the author.

      Taken from 18 USC 1030, paragraph 5

      Whoever knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;


      Please grow up.
      --
      /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
  67. Well... by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    It's true, I don't care about copyright infringement. And I still don't. I am, however, disgusted by their hypocrisy in claiming that copyright infringement is wrong while engaging in it themselves. Just because I don't care about copyright infringement doesn't mean that I like hypocrisy. Nor does this stance make me a hypocrite--like I said, the copyright infringement is NOT what I blame them for.

    If you're going to charge someone with hypocrisy, it helps to know what they actually believe. And lest you think that I make that mistake with the MPAA, well, there are plenty of writings on their website I can point you to that detail how evil they claim to think it is. Unless they're doing it, of course, in which case they apparently don't even owe the guy a couple hundred dollars or whatever the price of his software was. As if I could get off like that by claiming, "Oh! I was going to buy the DVD anyhow! I deleted it so you don't have to sue me." and get out of a lawsuit if they'd caught me infringing upon one of their copyrights.

    1. Re:Well... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      They believe they should have all of your money.

      Just so you know what they believe.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  68. How ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right below the story lead-in: an ad for the BSA

  69. Since they've admitted to having done it by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The next logical step would be to subpoena every computer, hard drive and backup tape in the organization, worldwide, as discovery in a lawsuit to recover damages.

    I'm certain their own seizure subpoenas could be referenced for precedent and legal justification.

    But I Am Not A Lawyer.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  70. Subpoena their hard drives by symbolset · · Score: 1
    To discover the scope of the infringement all the computers, hard drives and backup tapes used by the MPAA should be seized as evidence. Preferably this should be done by armed marshalls in daylight raids with lots of press.

    For a good lawyer this doesn't sound too hard. After all, they can crib from the MPAA supoenas for rationale.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  71. A small step by bluepinstripe · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Not that there should be any doubt, but we can all take a small (which may become large) step to let the MPAA know how we feel by sending an e-mail to the MPAA to report the their theft of intellectual property. The e-mail address is hotline@mpaa.org. You can also find the e-mail address on their fim theft page. The contents of my e-mail are as follows:

    To Whom It May Concern:

    This e-mail is not to report the theft of a movie, but the theft of another type of intellectual property: software. The perpetrator is your organization, the MPAA.

    By using the Forest Blog bloggin engine, either directly or as the results of the actions of another party, you have violated the linkware license to the Forest Blog blogging engine by removing all links back to the Forest Blog site, failing to credit the original author in any way.

    Until such time as the MPAA can develop and implement a plan that demonstrates an understanding of the importance of intellectual property rights for all types of intellectual property, your efforts to guard against the theft of your intellectual property in light of your theft of intellectual property will be viewed as the farce it is.

    Sincerely,
    [your name here]

  72. If being sued, delete your movies - and all is ok? by grolschie · · Score: 1

    Dear MPAA,

    I have now deleted downloaded movies from my harddrive. They were proof of concept that bittorrent and divx works on my computer. Since deleting the movies, I now look forward to you dropping your lawsuit against me.

    Best regards,
    Joe Sixpack

  73. Re:Its sorta legit.... SORTA by drunowho · · Score: 1

    "We would have paid if it went to production" is a pretty terrible excuse. Why not just keep a link back to forest blog until it made it to production? Even if it was only used for testing, they had no right to make it link free until they had paid 25 pounds.

  74. DMCA should have been the response by real+gumby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't agree with the folks who say he should have sued. He's just a nice guy.

    He should have filed a DMCA "Takedown" notice and then sued.

    Sauce for the gander and all that....

  75. How hard is it to check the dictionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah slashdot, were owning a ditionary makes one a lawyer.

    Well here's my definition.

    "theft

    In law, the crime of taking the property or services of another without consent. Under most statutes, theft encompasses the crimes of larceny, robbery, and burglary. Larceny is the crime of taking and carrying away the goods of another with intent to steal. Grand larceny, or larceny of property of substantial value, is a felony, whereas petty larceny, or larceny of less valuable property, is a misdemeanour. The same principle applies to grand theft and petty theft, which need not necessarily involve the "carrying away" of property and may include the theft of services. Robbery is an aggravated form of larceny involving violence or the threat of violence directed against the victim in his presence. Burglary is defined as the breaking and entering of the premises of another with an intent to commit a felony within. Two offenses usually distinguished from theft are embezzlement and fraud."

    BTW this exercise in definition is both a "feel good" exercise, and a red herring. It makes you all "feel good" to believe that it's a lesser crime, because the artist "has the original". Much like beating someone senseless, and then saying "I could have killed you instead. Bitch!". Like you're doing them a favour by not being as evil as you could. It's also a red herring because the implicit statement is false. That someone who has the ethics to not compensate an artist, and is an oathbreaker, would also have the fortitude to honor agreements if it ment depriving the artist of his original.

    1. Re:How hard is it to check the dictionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, the problem with that analogy is that the artist is directly harmed in both cases.

      It's more like taking a picture of a guy's face, instead of cutting his face off. One deprives him of further use of his face and causes him some distress and trauma. The other has no real consequences, unless he's uppity about having his picture taken.

  76. We get FRINGE benefits, not FRENCH... by The+Monster · · Score: 1

    It looks like a replay of the times when Hollywood was flaunting the Edison patents.
    You're either missing some words or you've used the wrong one here. Either Hollywood was flaunting its disregard for the patents, or it was flouting them.

    Yes, I'm a Big Dic...ionary Guy. How is it that geeks who understand that spelling, grammar, and usage errors in their code will at best keep it from compiling (so that they know there's a problem and can fix it) but consider the same things in human communication irrelevant, and resent having them pointed out?

    And while I'm ranting, when two things agree with each other, they jibe, not 'jive'. The whole comprises the parts, or the parts compose the whole. In passive voice, the whole is composed of the parts (it is not 'comprised of' them, although it's possible that they could be 'comprised of' the whole).

    The word it's, by the way, is a contraction for it is or it has; possessive pronouns do not have apostrophes in them. The only case where an apostrophe indicates a plural is that of text characters (Dot all your i's and cross all your t's).

    The frozen dessert is 'sherbet', not 'sherbert'. A 'slash' leans forward (/), a 'backslash' leans back (\), a colon is two dots (:) and a semicolon is a dot on top of a comma (;). There is no such word as 'paticular', 'strenth', 'lenth'.

    And we get fringe benefits, not 'French'...

    --

    [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

    1. Re:We get FRINGE benefits, not FRENCH... by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you're right. It was an impulsive post. As most of mine are, in case you haven't guessed.

      But what's this about "fridge" benefits?

      --
      What?
    2. Re:We get FRINGE benefits, not FRENCH... by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

      I might trade my fringe benefits for the French benefits if she's cute & willing.

  77. site down by PharmerWithTractor · · Score: 1

    This is what I am getting when I go to his site. Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005' [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][DBNETLIB]SQL Server does not exist or access denied. /Includes/inc-dataconnection.asp, line 22

  78. Don't blame MPAA for the DMCA by cpghost · · Score: 1

    Remember that all laws previous to the DMCA were to protect against piracy, (bootlegging, distribution, etc). But now the DMCA actually limits your freedom of use, even for personal use.

    MPAA could easily respond by stating that the DMCA is not their fault, but the brainchild of corrupt politicians they had to buy... all from the consumer's money. So, the consumer is to be blamed for DMCA: they not only elected the politicians to vote it in, they also paid for it with every commercial DVD they bought in a store.

    --
    cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  79. Useful defense? by Serengeti · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps this explanation could also apply to music:

      The Britney Spears music has been removed from my personal computer.

            * The songs were never assigned to a playlist.
            * The songs were never played to any of my friends.
            * The material on the harddrive was a proof of concept awaiting approval to be moved into my library.
            * The songs were only ever used for testing purposes.
            * Should I have decided that I enjoyed the music, then I would have paid the .99 cents that would have authorized me to play a version of the music without internal moral objection.

    Of course, I'm pretty certain that defense wouldn't prevent a lawsuit, as I'm sure the MPAA are hoping it will in their case...

  80. Private test site? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it were for testing purposes, why did they spend the time removing all the links?

  81. Skip the propaganda by mgiuca · · Score: 1

    I found a hack (at least on my region 4 dvds), before it shows you MPAA propaganda, it asks you "which language would you prefer to see MPAA propaganda in?" Weirdly, some languages have no propaganda, they just skip straight to the film. On my discs, the conveniently first option ("Shqip" (Albanian)) won't play any ads.

    Now I'm not saying it's right in any way - I absolutely detest being forced to even see this language menu from an evil organisation with nothing better to do than waste my time telling me how bad I would have been if I illegally pirated this movie I paid $170 for. But that's a way around it.

    (Having said that, the electricity bill isn't a very strong argument, but I know I know - principles).

    While we're talking about these ads, does anyone know what broadband service that girl is using? I want to be able to download a feature length movie in 12 seconds...

  82. Report It! by jeppster · · Score: 1

    Be sure to report this piracy! http://www.mpaa.org/ReportPiracy.asp

  83. MPAA Violates Copyright by woboyle · · Score: 1

    I hope the developer of the violated product issues a take-down notice to MPAA's ISP. Turnabout is "fairplay", IMO.

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.