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Cold Fusion Scientist Exonerated

Icarus1919 writes "New Scientist reports that the scientist who discovered a possible cold fusion reaction by bombarding a solvent with neutrons and sonic waves has recently been exonerated of accusations of scientific misconduct following the verification of his results by another scientist."

171 comments

  1. Obligatory by Brickwall · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yay! I'm gonna get a Mr. Fusion!

    --
    What was once true, is no longer so
  2. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this means what? Was cold-fusion discovered or what?

    1. Re:So... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 0

      If you drop Mentos into a cold bottle of Diet Coke, you get cold fusion.

    2. Re:So... by senatorpjt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The article says yes. Of course, low temperature fusion is already old hat anyway (Farnsworth Fusor.) The article doesn't say whether the reaction produces more energy than it consumes, which is what would make it interesting.

    3. Re:So... by jcr · · Score: 1

      This wasn't "cold" fusion, it was fusion in microbubbles created through ultrasonic agitation of a fluid. These bubbles are very hot, but they're also extremely small.

      Now, if it proves possible to get useful energy out of this apparatus, call your broker and buy all the puts on oil company stocks that you can.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    4. Re:So... by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Good news everybody...

    5. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its wouldn't occur to you if you consider the companies might protect their investments in illegal way.

    6. Re:So... by radtea · · Score: 2, Informative
      Of course, low temperature fusion is already old hat anyway (Farnsworth Fusor.)

      From the article you link:

      Unlike most controlled fusion systems, which slowly heat a magnetically confined plasma, the fusor injects "high temperature" ions directly into a reaction chamber, thereby avoiding a considerable amount of complexity.
      The Farnsworth Fusor is a high-temperature fusion device, just like sonofusion systems are high temperature fusion devices (if they really do produce fusion.)

      Do not confuse "table top" with "cold". The only reason conventional hot fusion systems are big is because the plasma losses scale as the surface area while the energy production scales as the volume, so the ratio of losses to energy goes down linearly with the size of the system. If one could produce a non-equilibrium device that had relatively smaller losses or larger energy production one could have a table-top fusion generator. Unfortunately, there is a quite general theoretical proof as to why such non-equilibrium devices cannot ever produce net power.
      --
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    7. Re:So... by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well... not necessarily. You refer to Todd Rider's papers. Rider's general analysis is on quasineutral, isotropic nonequilibrium systems. For example, Farnsworth-Hirsh fusors are not quasineutral; they strive for only protons in the plasma. Polywell (Bussard's variant) is anisotropic. Rider addresses some exceptions in very general terms. For example, he discusses a plasma of protons (non-neutral), but only under pure magnetic confinement, and then decides that the Brillouin Limit rules it out for feasible magnetic field strengths. It's all quite applicable, but not a general critique of non-neutral plasmas.

      Most of what Rider's papers discuss deals with the nonequilibrium aspect. That is, some fusion systems, fusion is attempted to be conducted at a lower energy by having a non-Maxwellian energy distribution in the plasma. That is, a Maxwellian plasma has most of the particles at a lower energy than the temperature would suggest, with the few high temperature outliers causing most of the fusion reactions. If you can only spend your energy accelerating particles to energies that stand a significant chance of fusing (without wasting it on bulk material that will still be too low energy), you can get a much higher rate of fusion. Rider goes on to show that, barring heavy use of selective removal of low energy particles for reacceleration, non-Maxwellian distributions of ion energies will rapidly decay to a Maxwellian equilibrium distribution. He also discusses energy loss mechanisms, and how formidable they are. In a later paper, he discusses more specific fusion systems and the problems inherent in them, and then proposes several possible systems that use resonant excitation or filtering of low energy ions for reacceleration to bypass the limitations his paper sets on fusion systems.

      Anyways, back to sonofusion. The idea with sonofusion is not, to the best of my understanding, to get a non-equilibrium energy distribution. Rather, it is to get extremely high temperatures in a very small region of space, and then have A) the resultant neutrons seed cavities in the opposite nodes, and B) have energy from the reaction feed back into the wave, helping compress the opposite nodes at the same time that the input accoustic waves normally would. In short, Taleyarkan hopes to achieve a kind of sonofusion chain reaction in which accoustic waves self-maintain a strong degree of anisotropy due to the fusion reactions that they cause. Even if a chain reaction is shown to be impossible, the hope is to at least make a good neutron source.

      At least, this is my understanding of what I've read; admittedly, it's been a while.

      --
      "Who the hell is Nietzche? It's a question stupid people are asking." -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    8. Re:So... by biggaijin · · Score: 1

      I have read several articles in recent weeks about this controversy, and the New Scientist article is unique in that it references an independent replication of Taleyarkhan's results. None of the other articles have said anything about this.

      Instead, they described the Purdue investigation as being constrained to some very specific procedural matters in the way a paper from his group was published last year without Taleyarkhan's name on it. In this, he was absolved of any wrongdoing.

      But, I haven't heard of any independent verification that the "sonofusion" Taleyarkhan described actually works.

    9. Re:So... by beckerist · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I still find it funny that a scientist can be completely trashed (and his career thrown into jeopardy) because he produces results that are difficult (though possible) to reproduce, yet when someone like Tom Cruise insists that Thetons are what makes us cranky, the world forgives, forgets and lets it slide...

      Woah wait, maybe the scientists are all just working for Xenu!!

    10. Re:So... by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Huh? I guess I don't get it.

      Professor Farnsworth is a fictional character on Futurama. (He was no doubt named after the Real Farnsworth).

      His tagline anytime he thinks of something is "Good News Everybody."

    11. Re:So... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Or even a legal way. The oil companies are all energy companies these day, and I suspect they would pay quite a lot for the parent on a cheap fusion generator. Then they could sell cheap energy from fusion and cheap plastics from oil, while making a huge profit.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      For example, he discusses a plasma of protons (non-neutral), but only under pure magnetic confinement, and then decides that the Brillouin Limit rules it out for feasible magnetic field strengths. It's all quite applicable, but not a general critique of non-neutral plasmas.


      No, Rider quite clearly discusses IEC systems where the magnetic field is zero, and cites three papers. (For fun, calculate the Debye length for an ion-only plasma.)
    13. Re:So... by Rei · · Score: 1

      From the paper:

      "In performing these generalized calculations, the following assumptions have been made:

      (snip)

      * The dense central region may be considered approximately isotropic since particles are converging from and returning to all directions (If it is not isotropic one must deal with problems such as Weibel and counterstreaming instabilities) (poster's note: Fusors are anisotropic. Due to resonant filtering, they tend to operate in what is called "star mode", in which the ions are confined to relatively tight channels)

      * Spatial variations of temperature and energy may be neglected within the central region (assuming that the center of the potential well is fairly broad and flat, as stated in Refs 1 and 18) (poster's note: again, not accurate, as indicated above)

      * Quasineutrality ( ... ) holds in the region of significant density." (poster's note: Fusors are non-neutral. It's fundamental to their operation.

      So, this rules out the applicabily of the general calculations to fusors. Let's look at his specific cases. (next post)

      --
      "Who the hell is Nietzche? It's a question stupid people are asking." -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    14. Re:So... by Rei · · Score: 1

      Okay, so we've now covered how fusors violate three of the assumptions that underlay Rider's general calculations. These violations of assumptions aren't trivial. A non-neutral plasma means little to no Bremsstrahlung losses and synchrotron radiation. An anisotropic plasma can increase the average collision energies. An uneven spatial distribution of ions means that most of the collisions are going on in a region of higher density than the average. All of these violations of assumptions work in the fusor's favor.

      Thankfully, Rider addressed this in his followup paper... kind of. He had a long list of "exceptions". I don't want to have to dig up the paper and scour through it now (I will if I need to), but one of them addressed non-neutral plasmas, in a section called "Operation without electrons" or something of that nature. However, it simply consisted of a Brillouin limit calculation, so clearly doesn't apply to fusors.

      As for the Debye length, I don't remember encountering it in Rider's papers when I read through them in more detail the first time, and in my quick look-over this time, I'm not seeing it. Thus, I suspect that the Debye length concerns are your own, not Rider's, although I could be mistaken. I would like to see a peer-reviewed paper that covers it.

      --
      "Who the hell is Nietzche? It's a question stupid people are asking." -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    15. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I still find it funny that a scientist can be completely trashed [...] yet when someone like Tom Cruise insists [...] the world forgives, forgets and lets it slide

      There's an old saying: Never argue with an idiot, lest you look like one*. I suppose the corollary is: if you want to look smart, pick on a PhD.

      To wit, every time someone with half a brain has tried to spearhead Cruise on various points he's patently wrong about, they only get bombarded with more circular logic and half-baked ideas in retort. The only way to look intellegent (and possibly demonstrate how wrong he is), at that point, is to formulate a rebuttle to *everything* he keeps spewing out - that could take all day.

      (*paraphrased)

  3. Article is confusing! by Sneakernets · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This article is the most confusing thing I've read all day. All those techy words! :(

    --
    "No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Article is confusing! by philpalm · · Score: 1

      Are you being sarcastic or are you that illiterate? It just states that the supposed radioactivity was not caused by Californium. Subsequently they have to find another excuse to disregard his findings.

    2. Re:Article is confusing! by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

      I'd suggest questioning the ability of anyone who works at LeTorneau (or however it's spelled) University to verify something as complex as fusion.

      (I live near LU, and my very competent boss is an alumni. It's just not somewhere you'd expect such findings to come from)

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    3. Re:Article is confusing! by Adelbert · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah!

      Who could have imagined that you'd need a techy background to understand articles posted on Slashdot?

      What's next? A puerile sense of humor on Fark.com? And interest in current affairs for the BBC?

    4. Re:Article is confusing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How about you use your brain and question the process and evidence they've presented and not suggest discrediting them based solely on a useless metric such as what school they attend?

    5. Re:Article is confusing! by PFI_Optix · · Score: 4, Funny

      Because that takes effort, and this is Slashdot?

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      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    6. Re:Article is confusing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds like a metric whereby you'd shoot the sh*t over their sports team lineup, not attack a scientific finding.

    7. Re:Article is confusing! by jeffshoaf · · Score: 0

      I live near LU, and my very competent boss is an alumni. So, it's safe to assume you're boss reads Slashdot?
      --
      Putting the "anal" back into "analyst"...
    8. Re:Article is confusing! by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

      Not that I'm aware of.

      Hey, if you had a boss who knew what he was doing you'd brag about it, too.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    9. Re:Article is confusing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Subsequently they have to find another excuse to disregard his findings.

      I think the fact that almost no one can reproduce his work seems like a good enough excuse.

  4. missing info from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many transactions per second can this ANS thing handle?
    And why doesn't it work in California?

  5. I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by zappepcs · · Score: 2

    Well, maybe in 20 years we'll have plenty of power for electric cars, but then in 20+ years, what will we do with all that bio-fuel?

    1. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Convert them to a profession that isn't heavily supported by government intervention?

    2. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by BSAtHome · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe they then can go back to their roots and produce food? Maybe a too obvious insight though...

    3. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by OriginalArlen · · Score: 1
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      Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
    4. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by AP2k · · Score: 1

      I suspect that racing will see a boon. Nothing quite like a 20,000 RPM ethanol engine screaming past you at 200 mph with no muffler. America needs to get their race on like the Europeans.

      Still, bubble fusion isnt exactly new. About a decade ago a scientist at the lab I work for did the same thing with only ordinary water and sound waves. Nothing has come of it so far, so I suspect that this "new" technique is going to end up as vaporware too. It seems that all currently known lukewarm fusion methods suffer from never being able to break even.

    5. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by Dan+Farina · · Score: 1

      Sometimes, however, it is a lot faster to go through the government -- take the space program, for example, or the human genome project. Both were huge upfront investments with no obvious beneficial foreseeable outcome other than the invention of many technologies and seeding new types of research and technology. It is true that by the standards of modern techniques that both are quaint in their approaches, but the massive amounts of money being pumped into (what were at the time) new technologies and techniques surely helped a great deal.

    6. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by mstone · · Score: 1

      IIRC, this procedure creates bubbles much bigger, and thus much hotter, than any previous version.

      There's no theoretical barrier that makes sonofusion impossible. It's just a very difficult engineering problem. The more we learn about making very small bubbles hotter, the closer we'll be to getting something that does pass the break-even point.

      And just for the record, very-large-and-very-hot fusion hasn't passed the break-even point either, AFAIK.

    7. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by Khashishi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      feed it to the 12 billion poor people

    8. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      We stockpile them for use when the next ice age comes.

      We will need all greenhouse gases we can get.

    9. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by JourneyExpertApe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why, do poor people taste better if they've been fattened on biofuel?

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    10. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by Fordiman · · Score: 1

      Agreed. The space race, for example, produced a lot more new technology and neat stuff than any war - which are usually the drivers for new tech.

      That said, I do believe the computer and internet were driver by the cold war (ARPANET was originally a 'fast-response' network, IIRC).

      --
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    11. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would just like to thank whoever modded this Interesting. I laughed out loud while reading Slashdot for the first time in weeks.

    12. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their corn roots have aphids, you insensitive clod!

    13. Re:I guess this is bad news for corn farmers? by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that's "funds pure science" rather than "tries to find new things to patent".

      This is Glaxo Wellcome, who, if one wanted to be cynical, might be described as the guys who patented AZT so that they could profit from AIDS.

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      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  6. Moo by Chacham · · Score: 2

    Cold Fusion Scientist Exonerated

    Was that post-mortem?

    1. Re:Moo by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Funny

      It said that a solution was bombarded with neutrons and sonic waves, not that the scientist was.

    2. Re:Moo by Chacham · · Score: 1

      It said that a solution was bombarded with neutrons and sonic waves, not that the scientist was.

      But, when the problem is cold fusion, isn't the solution a scientist?

    3. Re:Moo by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      No no... exonerated, not exhumed.

      It's an easy mixup to make.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    4. Re:Moo by Chacham · · Score: 5, Funny

      No no... exonerated, not exhumed.

      Ah, and here i thought exxonerated mean having a bunch of oil spilled on you.

    5. Re:Moo by jcr · · Score: 2, Funny

      i thought exxonerated mean having a bunch of oil spilled on you.

      Nah, that's when you get "Valdezed" or "Hazelwooded".

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    6. Re:Moo by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      when the problem is cold fusion, isn't the solution a scientist?


            No the solution is a large grant at regular intervals, for at least YOUR lifetime... But it will happen, I *promise*, and when it does, either we'll blow up the planet or have an inexhaustible supply of cheap energy, cats and dogs will be friends, women will want sex every day, and we'll be stinking rich!!! Yadda yadda yadda...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    7. Re:Moo by cyber-vandal · · Score: 3, Funny

      Women do want sex every day - just not with me.

    8. Re:Moo by BlindRobin · · Score: 1

      Then being exxxonerated indicates the use of baby oil and plastic sheets. Right ?

  7. The Saint Exonerated? by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 1

    Mr. Kilmer will happy to hear this news.

  8. Odd. by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Informative

    Where's the cold fusion? The article sounds more like Sonofusion. Which, I can assure you, is a long ways from "cold".

    1. Re:Odd. by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So, maybe he's just stupid, not guilty of misconduct. Not sure, as a scientist, which I'd rather be labeled with.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:Odd. by jimstapleton · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your definition of cold fusion is fusion happing at relatively low temperatures I take it?

      Well, the problem with that is that it most likely cannot exist, a certain amount of kinetic energy is required at the atomic level for fusion - meaning a lot of heat for the fusing atoms.

      I think cold fusion in general means that the average temperature of the reaction chamber is low. If I read the wikipedia article right, the technique used generates small superheated bubbles, but doesn't necessarily superheat the solvent, this I think it can be classified as cold fusion.

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    3. Re:Odd. by i_should_be_working · · Score: 2, Informative

      The physicist in question didn't call it cold fusion, nor, I think, did anyone else besides the /. submitter.

    4. Re:Odd. by yoder · · Score: 3, Informative

      This article seems to be a teaser. No real information available.

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
    5. Re:Odd. by jimstapleton · · Score: 2, Informative

      OK, this doesn't look like low energy input, even if it is room temperature, so it's probably not cold fusion as the OP posted.

      Cold Fusion

      However such a thing may exist, and has been reproduced with difficulty, albeit on a small and commercially non-viable scale. It looks like it's hell on the components. And I suspect there are areas of high heat since it mentions parts melting.

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    6. Re:Odd. by gardyloo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I can assure you that Taleyarkhan is *not* stupid. The problem is, his main (or at least one of the originals) detractor is Seth Putterman, who is also decidedly *not* stupid. This is one of the few issues I feel a little more familiarity with than most slashdot readers, and nothing in this case is as clear-cut as "he's obviously dumb or a liar".

    7. Re:Odd. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Honest mistakes should be more tolerated than intentional lying. I'd take stupidity, we're all stupid about something necessarily.

    8. Re:Odd. by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your definition of cold fusion is fusion happing at relatively low temperatures I take it?

      Well, the problem with that is that it most likely cannot exist, a certain amount of kinetic energy is required at the atomic level for fusion

      It's easy to fuse hydrogen at room temperature, as long as you first replace the electrons in the atoms with muons. (Obtaining the muons is an exercise left to the reader.)

    9. Re:Odd. by BSAtHome · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The most preprominent problem with non-mainstream science and results is that it is a political minefield. Anything rieking esoteric in the scientific community is suppressed and/or ridiculed by the peers. This is a common problem. It is much easier to argue "it's bad science" than to disprove one's results if your own field of expertise is threatened in the slightest way.

    10. Re:Odd. by jimstapleton · · Score: 4, Funny

      cows?

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    11. Re:Odd. by radtea · · Score: 5, Informative

      Your definition of cold fusion is fusion happing at relatively low temperatures I take it?

      Cold fusion is fusion that takes place when the fusing nuclei are at temperatures significantly below those required to overcome the Coulomb barrier. It has nothing to do with the temperature of the laboratory that the experiment takes place in, or the temperature of the majority of the mass of the apparatus. For example, we do not call tokomak's "cold fusion" because despite the fact that they sometimes use superconducting magnets and therefore are not just "cold" but positively cryogenic, the nuclei that do the fusing are HOT.

      Any other use of the term "cold fusion" is terribly mis-leading for two reasons. One is that it invokes a completely arbitrary and unphysical division between various kinds of hot fusion, calling some kinds of hot fusion "cold" because someone happens to feel that it is important that some part of the apparatus that is not undergoing a fusion reaction is cold. The second reason is that it fails to distinguish between pressure-driven fusion of the kind claimed by Pons and Fleishman, and temperature-driven fusion which has actually been observed.

      People who use "cold fusion" when they mean "sonofusion" are either honestly ignorant of the differences between hot fusion and cold fusion, or are being wilfully dishonest.

      Despite the fact that neither Pons and Fleishman nor anyone else has ever been able to provide convincing evidence that pressure-driven fusion occurs between room-temperature nuclei, it is still the case that if anyone could figure out how to exert sufficient pressure, then the atoms would fuse, regardless of the amount of kinetic energy (that is, even at low temperatures.)

      So there is a real distinction in the physics of "hot" and "cold" fusion, and in terms of that unambiguous and physically interesting distinction, sonofusion, if it happens at all, is almost certainly hot. Although if the centre of the bubbles really is as hot as they seem, it is a mystery as to why we don't see any neutron production in water, but only in more complex organic molecules--the phenomenon remains mysterious and there is still a lot of work to be done to reveal its secrets.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    12. Re:Odd. by skoaldipper · · Score: 1

      In this article, apparently even Mr. Taleyarkhan is frustrated by the secret panel that exonerated him. And this article says about the panel, "Purdue's finding is as mysterious as bubble fusion itself".

      --
      I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
    13. Re:Odd. by schon · · Score: 1

      No, those would be moo-ons. Muons are something else.

    14. Re:Odd. by skoaldipper · · Score: 1

      Correction: It was Seth Putterman who tried to replicate Taleyarkhan's work who was "frustrated" (first article). In the second article, Mr. Taleyarkhan defends Purdue's process. Well, anyway, these two articles shed some light for me.

      --
      I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
    15. Re:Odd. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cows?
      No, cats.
    16. Re:Odd. by SilentOneNCW · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by Cryogenic?

    17. Re:Odd. by shma · · Score: 1

      Why is this modded as funny? Muon-catalyzed fusion has benn well understood for years.

      --
      I came here for a good argument
    18. Re:Odd. by ettlz · · Score: 2, Funny

      They've been in short supply ever since the cow jumped over the moon, which radiates mo-ons. Meanwhile, experimentalists at the Tevatron are still offering a reward for information on The Dish, who is suspected to have absconded with their only spo-on.

    19. Re:Odd. by Mattsson · · Score: 1

      Cryogenics has to do with how stuff behaves at low temperatures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic
      I would venture a guess that he uses the term to describe that the coils used to create the magnetic containment-field are cooled until they become super conductive.

      --
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    20. Re:Odd. by kramulous · · Score: 1

      At least he's giving it a go. Given the accusational history of this topic it's amazing anybody will publish anything on it. I give him big points.

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      .
    21. Re:Odd. by reverseengineer · · Score: 1

      The grandparent post is simply noting that the superconducting magnets used in some new tokamak-type "hot fusion" reactors require very low temperatures in order to remain superconducting- they need to to be cooled by cryogens like liquid helium. The niobium-tin wire that will make up the giant magnets for the in-development ITER facility, for example, is only superconductive below 18 Kelvin, so it will be bathed in liquid helium at 4 Kelvin. Four Kelvin in one part of the system, but the actual fusion will take place at one hundred million Kelvin, so, as the grandparent points out, it would be disingenuous to call it "cold fusion."

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    22. Re:Odd. by DM9290 · · Score: 1

      "The most preprominent problem with non-mainstream science and results is that it is a political minefield. Anything rieking esoteric in the scientific community is suppressed and/or ridiculed by the peers. This is a common problem. It is much easier to argue "it's bad science" than to disprove one's results if your own field of expertise is threatened in the slightest way."

      Is it a common problem? How common is it?

      Can you list 10 major scientific breakthroughs made in the past 300 years by "non-mainstream" scientists who were ridiculed and supressed and specifically labeled "bad science" by the scientific community.

      --
      No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
    23. Re:Odd. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why is this modded as funny? Muon-catalyzed fusion has benn well understood for years.


      It's easy to fuse hydrogen at room temperature, as long as you first replace the electrons in the atoms with muons.
      (Obtaining the muons is an exercise left to the reader.)


      And who says irony is lost on Americans.

    24. Re:Odd. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Room temperature fusion is pretty trivial once you work out how to alter some of the laws of physics on a local level. Once you can do this, however, there are some much simpler ways of getting large quantities of energy. I can't help feeling this makes fusion something of a dead-end, when it comes to power generation; every theory I've read on how it might be possible allows you to generate energy much more easily without fusion once you've filled in the missing parts you need to turn the theory into a real fusion generator.

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    25. Re:Odd. by Puff+of+Logic · · Score: 1

      I seem to recall that the scientific community didn't greet Wegener's ideas about continental drift too enthusiastically.

      --
      P.P.S. I'm doing Science and I'm still alive.
    26. Re:Odd. by Runefox · · Score: 1

      This is Slashdot. We're all scientists here, and every post is a major scientific breakthrough that is ridiculed by the mainstream.

      For example, I just discovered that peanut butter cures cancer. But nobody will ever believe me.

      --
      Screw the rules, I have green hair!
    27. Re:Odd. by Runefox · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? You obviously don't know what ColdFusion is.

      --
      Screw the rules, I have green hair!
    28. Re:Odd. by deadlock911 · · Score: 0

      I thought the hot/cold term denoted input of heat vs no heat input? The desired output of ANY fusion/fission reaction is heat so any successful reaction is going to get hot. The point is whether you made it hot to begin with or not...
      I could be wrong though

    29. Re:Odd. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gaaa! thanks for making me spurt milk out of my nose!

    30. Re:Odd. by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Eagh. You came a little too close to reality on that one... reminds me of my classical dynamics textbook *twitch* *twitch*.

      At least physicists aren't quite as sadistic as Donald Knuth, who's infamous for slipping famous unsolved problems into the problem sections of his textbooks.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    31. Re:Odd. by Usquebaugh · · Score: 1

      Fusion in a small amateur reactor is achievable. No need to change any laws of science. Getting break even is the problem. Now the hot fusion guys have spent how many $$$ and are no further ahead than the amateurs i.e. no break even. Nice expensive salaries not with standing.

      I have a hunch that we'll see break even fusion from one of the cheap amateur style reactors way before we see it from the mainstream guys. The amount of money that's been invested in hot fusion means that any progress is going to be by committee and will take decades to be heard above the self interest.

      IMUO (in my uninformed opinion) Farnsworth was on the right track and the descendants of his reactors will be the first to see break even.

    32. Re:Odd. by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      What is non-mainstream science? I've seen talks on cold fusion, violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and other "fringe" fields at the same conferences I've presented my work at. They weren't labeled "non-mainstream", or "kooks", or anything like that. Look at who's doing this research. Taleyarkhan isn't some bum off the street, he's a well known physicist, with years of research experience in a "mainstream" lab.

      In my experience, scientists are so bloodthirsty for new discoveries that we're willing to overlook almost anything to show that we've found something new. That's why we have all sorts of ethics rules and guidelines for reproducing work. The scientists claiming "bad science" are either looking for an excuse to come in and make the discovery their own, or maybe it really is bad science.

      There's no such thing as a stable field in science. As soon as you stop looking for new ways to break the rules, you have ceased to be a scientist. No one is going to come up with something that's going to make being a physicist obsolete, but they may come up with something that means my research is obsolete. That happens all the time. It's a very poor scientist who doesn't realize an opportunity for new work when he sees one.

    33. Re:Odd. by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      It does cure cancer but you have to remove the aflatoxin first.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    34. Re:Odd. by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      I'd say hopeful. Out of how many thousands of students you'd hope for one to solve the insovable.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    35. Re:Odd. by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      It looked like Putterman had an agenda other than scientific truth and caused quite a bit of trouble.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    36. Re:Odd. by armb · · Score: 1

      The article is about sonofusion. The Slashdot submission and headline don't mention sonofusion and say cold fusion. What makes you think any stupidity involved in that confusion has anything to do with anyone outside Slashdot?

      --
      rant
    37. Re:Odd. by JamesP · · Score: 1

      What comes to mind is the discovery of H. Pylori in gastric ulcers. Ridiculed to the top, but eventually they had the last laugh (and a Nobel Prize)

      And could you define "Mainstream Scientist"? Is Robert Jahn a "mainstream scientist"? Remember he is a Professor at Princeton.

      And if you mean discoveries by people with non-formal training (or maybe not all the way to PhD), it happens lots of times.

      For the most glaring example, can someone say Fermat?

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
  9. And this means? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting 2 paragraph article... but really.. this is a "so what?" post.. is it this slow of a news day?

  10. Good News Everyone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The lead in this story should be that the "cold" fusion results were verified.

    Let them be verified again!

  11. "accusser" was once on his staff by andy314159pi · · Score: 5, Informative

    The person accusing Taleyarkhan of misinterpreting data was one of his own post-docs. I wonder what that person has to say now? I think it's easy to make allegations and its difficult to shake the effects of false allegations.

    1. Re:"accusser" was once on his staff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      The person accusing Taleyarkhan of misinterpreting data was one of his own post-docs. I wonder what that person has to say now?

      PLEASE DON'T FIRE ME!!!!

    2. Re:"accusser" was once on his staff by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Funny

      The person accusing Taleyarkhan of misinterpreting data was one of his own post-docs. I wonder what that person has to say now?

      "Would you like fries with that?"

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  12. Doesn't mean he's *right* by gardyloo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First, the article title is VERY misleading. As others have pointed out, the question at hand is whether sonoluminescence can lead to fusion. In some peoples' minds, this is "cold" fusion, because the whole damned apparatus doesn't have to be a plasma. However, where the fusion is claimed to be taking place (in the middle of tremendously cavitating bubbles) *IS* in a plasma state (at least for part of an acoustic cycle). Thus, this might be better termed "locally hot" fusion or something. Or just "sonofusion", which everyone in the field seems to understand.

        Second, the New Scientist blurb is interesting in that Rusi seems to have been cleared of scientific fraud. The question, if I remember correctly, was whether the neutrons he was seeing were due to poor experimental techniques, contamination (accidental or purposeful), or simply weren't there in the first place. This blurb SEEMS to clear him of accusations of purposeful contamination and just making up the existence of neutrons. However, it doesn't mean that they were really there, and certainly not that he's really found thermal neutrons from fusion in his experiments. THAT will take a whole lot more "confirmation".

          (IAAP, but haven't been following this conflict closely. The last I paid attention was at the ASA meeting last December in Hawai'i. So I'm sure someone will correct my--- inadvertent---mistakes. This is, after all, Slashdot.)

    1. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just "sonofusion", which everyone in the field seems to understand.

      So, "Son of Fusion", is that like "Mr. Fusion's" son? I for one welcome our banana peel and beer guzzling overlords.

    2. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by andy314159pi · · Score: 4, Informative

      IAAPC and yeah I think the controversy was actually about whether the associated gamma rays, and not just the high energy neutrons, were from the deuterated acetone and not some other source sitting around the lab that was radioactive.

      Taleyarkhan, R.P., Cho, J.S. et.al. Physical Review E. vol 69 pg 36109-1. The title is: 'Additional Evidence of Nuclear Emissions During Acoustic Cavitation.'

      See also this blurb

    3. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Informative
      Some context:
      • The slashdot editors have always loved posting credulous articles about cold fusion.
      • The original cold fusion experiments by Pons and Fleischman (using electrochemistry) didn't have any detectors in place to detect neutrons. In fact, if the experiment had been producing the level of power they were claiming, they'd have been dead from the neutrons.
      • In the '90's, Gai et al. at Yale redid the Pons and Fleischman experiments with an array of neutron detectors, and found no excess neutrons.
      • There are really only two ways of interpreting the electrochemistry experiments at this point: (1) they didn't produce fusion; or (2) there are huge, fundamental mistakes in our understanding of the hydrogen atom (e.g., there's another state whose energy is lower than the normal ground state's).
    4. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by Otter · · Score: 4, Interesting
      This blurb SEEMS to clear him of accusations of purposeful contamination and just making up the existence of neutrons.

      A New York Times article with more detail suggests they didn't even clear him of that, just of passing off his own work as independent replication. It sounds like no one's interests have been especially well-served here.

    5. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by scardina · · Score: 1

      How is the article misleading? 1) It says "table top fusion" not "cold fusion" (although by your definition I wonder if any fusion could be cold fusion). 2) The report says that reports that the research was bogus "may have been premature".

    6. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      The impression that I got was that the original cold fusion wasn't repeatable anywhere and the original pair that made the claims wouldn't let anyone else touch the apparatus that they had used. Any further inquiry was basically evaded and really looked very suspicious in their behavior, and it was time to just move on.

    7. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by mdsolar · · Score: 1

      Making no claim to an understanding of the result, I would just point out that they were working with deuterium, a nuclear boson rather than hydrogen, a fermion. In fact, hydrogen was used as a control. Theoretical work that I know of concentrates on direct to helium fusion without any neutron production. The ideas that I am aware of, expressed by Scott Chubb, center on coherent boosting of a low branching ratio D-D->He4 reaction.

      With the bubble fusion, the idea is that it is conventional hot fusion on a small scale so D+D->He3+n would be more conventionally represented and neutrons would be expected.

      Both ideas are pretty facinating and with the claimed replication of bubble fusion, perhaps the numerous claimed replications of cold fusion http://www.lenr-canr.org/, will receive closer attention.
      --
      D fusion hot, D fusion cold, H fusion in the pot eight minutes old: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html

    8. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by GreyPoopon · · Score: 1

      A New York Times article [nytimes.com] with more detail suggests they didn't even clear him of that, just of passing off his own work as independent replication.

      And strangely enough, the NY Times article seems to ignore the November independent replication of the experiment mentioned in the New Scientist article. It sounds to me like NOBODY has the full story, and therefore both sources of information are rather suspect.
      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    9. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You are repeating urban legends:

      • The original cold fusion experiments by Pons and Fleischman (using electrochemistry) didn't have any detectors in place to detect neutrons. In fact, if the experiment had been producing the level of power they were claiming, they'd have been dead from the neutrons


      You don't die from a few hundret neutrons ... and also not all fusion reactions create neutrons.

      There are really only two ways of interpreting the electrochemistry experiments at this point: (1) they didn't produce fusion; or (2) there are huge, fundamental mistakes in our understanding of the hydrogen atom (e.g., there's another state whose energy is lower than the normal ground state's).

      Regarding (2): I don't think our understanding is fundamentally wrong. However I believe there are options no one really payed attention to. After all our first ideas about fusion comes from watching the sun. Our first attempt on fusion likely was the H-Bomb. Both are pretty hot fusion processes. They both are explainable with fusion reaction formulas, so we gain confidence that our formulas and our understanding of fusion and fission processes are viable. OTOH in such a fusion experiment we could imagine that 3 or 4 protons fuse etc.

      Well, 40 years ago "high temperature" super conduction was physically impossible. If a scientist had claimed super conduction does exist on high temperatures as well, his colleagues had declared him mad. I think that fusion processes in analogous ways like super conduction might be possible, or in other words that the underlying principles might be similar.

      angel'o'sphere
      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by radtea · · Score: 4, Informative

      ... and also not all fusion reactions create neutrons.

      This is not quite correct, especially in the context of fusion in the solid state.

      It is true that considered in complete isolation from everything else, the reaction d + d -> 4He is neutron free. But considered in complete isolation from everything else a great many things are true. For example, it is true that considered in complete isolation from everything else, you can drive your car the wrong way down a one-way street and not suffer any collisions. But I doubt that would stand up in court as a justification for claiming that driving your car the wrong way down a one-way street is perfectly safe.

      In the case of fusion, for d + d -> 4He to occur, d + d -> 3He + n must also occur. And when d + d -> 4He occurs, the alpha particle carries off about 23 MeV, if memory serves. This is quite far above the neutron binding energy of most nuclei, which means that nuclear collisions as the alpha particle slows down can knock neutrons free. And such collisions produce a lot of gamma rays, too.

      Believers in cold fusion are required to make up phenomena that might suppress these and other neutron and gamma production processes. Unfortunately, those phenomena always contradict what we know about solid state and nuclear physics. And by "know" I don't mean just "what we have a good theoretical understanding of" but also "what we are empirically certain of."

      Finally, I'd like to point out a trivial falsehood in your post:

      Well, 40 years ago "high temperature" super conduction was physically impossible. If a scientist had claimed super conduction does exist on high temperatures as well, his colleagues had declared him mad.

      On the contrary, when a scientist actually did claim that super conduction exists at high temperatures his colleagues first reproduced the results and then gave him a Nobel Prize. That's what scientists do when people find the unexpected--try to reproduce the results, and if they do, reward the discoverer. No matter how astonishing and unexpected the results are. It is only when people make improbable claims with insufficient evidence that the question of their sanity is raised.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    11. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by mdsolar · · Score: 1

      I think I agree that if the alpha ends up with the energy is should knock a few things around. So, tracks found in detectors http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=223170 &cid=18073680 are the sort of thing you might expect. On the other hand, the only framework of a thoery for cold fusion that I've seen that sort of gets me to nod my head a little involves selectively boosting the d+d->He4 branch, which is based on quantum arguments. So, in so far as there is a theory, the direct production of of neutrons would not be expected while I'm not do sure that spalation of neutrons induced by alphas on d, O or Pd is all that likely. Neutrons are nice because you can measure them at a distance from the setup, but it they are not produced for physical reasons, then non-detection is not a good deciding factor. In any case, DOE has recomended focused research in the subject area so we should be seeing more sensitive instruments applied to the problem.

    12. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are huge, fundamental mistakes in our understanding of the hydrogen atom (e.g., there's another state whose energy is lower than the normal ground state's).

      That is exactly what is claimed here: http://www.blacklightpower.com/theory/theory.shtml Yes the website is cheesy, but the math and predictions are interesting. Its worth a read.

    13. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by DarenN · · Score: 1

      Please note that P&F "inquisition" was allegedly hijacked by the people who are getting billions of dollars per year to investigate "hot fusion".

      Do a quick search for "Dr. Eugene Mallove" (RIP), who was the lead technical writer on the report for MIT, and who subsequently left, accusing them of obfuscating and downright tampering with results to make things look bad for Pons and Fleischmann. He also accused ALL the insitutions involved of debunking the research, then looking for grants to continue it.

      Here's a good interview from 2000 http://www.evworld.com/archives/interviews2/mallov e1.html, that covers a lot of the basic background.

      For the conspiracy theorists, Dr. Mallove was murdered in his front garden, but "little of value" was taken and the first attempt by the police to find a suspect led to a dead guy. Also interesting reading!

      While I'm definitely one of the disbelievers of "cold fusion", it's disheartening to hear about this kind of jockeying, although not surprising. For the headline writers: There's a phrase to describe non-cold fusion in small devices, "Tabletop fusion" (the idea being that you can keep your fusion device on a table.

      --
      Rational thought is the only true freedom
    14. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by kench33 · · Score: 1

      The replication consisted of a physics professor from a small Texas university and two students going to Purdue and doing the experiment in Rusi's laboratory using Rusi's apparatus. To many, that is not quite independent replication.

      See http://united-irish-pubs.blogspot.com/2006/12/bubb le-fusion_05.html

      It is still true that no one has independently reproduced the results using equipment not built by Rusi Taleyarkhan.

    15. Re:Doesn't mean he's *right* by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      ... his colleagues first reproduced the results and then gave him a Nobel Prize.

      Yeah, and like this it should be in low energy fusion research. But the first thing happening was: defaming the researchers. Now 20 years later slowly research is starting up again in this area.

      Regarding your formula: I'm not interested to defend the cold fusion researchers as being right. I'm only astonished that so many researchers reacted with: impossible And thats why I brought up the analogon with high temperature super conduction. Unlike your answer, the first people thinking about high temperature super conduction where defamed. It took really long until some researches managed to build high temperature super conductors. The results where not easy to copy, a lot of physics who tried to follow the mixture recipes how to craft super conductors failed in doing so.

      Further more: all we currently know about fusion and fission refers to isolated reactions. E.g. d + d -> 4He and d + d -> 3He + n. What about catalyzed reactions? After all one way of super conduction is based on Cooper Pairs. Free Cooper Pairs can't exist as far as we know. They only can exist inside of solid state substrates with certain characteristics. It takes some long thinking and philosophing to understand that exactly that what makes the resistance to electric currents, the matter, the atoms, the electron gas in the crystals, that exactly that as well can completely remove resistance.

      Regarding the concrete fusion reactions in the Pons and Fleischman experiments, I don't think people where talking about simple H -> He fusion of any kind but more about proton capture events of heavier nuclei.

      Don't get me wrong: I have absolutely no clue ;D I'm only making wild speculations. But sometimes that it is what sparks a new idea. In my view the way how electron orbitals work around a nucleus, and allow for catalyzed chemical reactions, is similar to the proton orbitals in a nucleus. So why should a way of catalyzing be completely impossible there? For fusion you only need to get to nuclei to come close enough together ... muon catalyzed fusion is old. Why not a crystal grid catalyzed fusion?

      angel'o'sphere

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  13. The Saint II by molecularaz · · Score: 2, Funny

    Quick Lets get Val Kilmer to reprise his role as "The Saint". In " The Saint II: Electric Bugaloo- The real cold fusion"

    1. Re:The Saint II by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

      More like his role in "Real Genius" I think.

  14. verification of his results by another scientist by juan2074 · · Score: 1

    Of course I didn't read the article. Who does?

    Shouldn't his results be verified by more than one other scientist?
    How about at least five other scientists test his methods?

  15. I'm NOT mad! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I knew there was an electric bugaloo film! So it wasn't some fiction of my imagination. Did some fella dance with a broom and break his neck.

  16. What went on behind the closed doors? by Ambitwistor · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apparently, Purdue refused to state what the exact allegations investigated were, how many inquiries it conducted, or what its conclusions were based on. Hard to tell if the investigation's conclusions were arrived at fairly or were politically motivated. More details in this NYT article which I found from this blog entry.

  17. Anything in it though by Philomathie · · Score: 0

    His vindication is all well and good, but does it mean that their may still be some merit in pursueing his research further, now that it has been established that it wasn't fake?

  18. Pressure and Heat by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 2, Funny

    Most people seem to think that hydrogen atoms can only get together under extreme pressures and heat. The ones that disagree seem to think that some tricky apparatus is required to get two hydrogen atoms to unite. I want to know: has anybody tried just asking them if they wouldn't mind merging their nuclei? It might just work.

    --
    Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    1. Re:Pressure and Heat by saethone · · Score: 1

      "Mr Hydrogen, I'd like you to meet Ms. Hydrogen". That should do it :).

    2. Re:Pressure and Heat by surprise_audit · · Score: 2, Funny

      has anybody tried just asking them if they wouldn't mind merging their nuclei?

      Been there, done that. Unfortunately my sample of hydrogen seems to be contaminated with Administratium so the hydrogen formed a number of subcommittees to research the proposal. The initial reports look favourable, but it could be several years before a conclusion is reached...

  19. With some work, ergs in out by postbigbang · · Score: 1

    Capturing and making the energy useful will be tricky, launching a whole new school of (hopefully) lightweight (and safe) efficient power units. Imagine using the thumpa-thumpa woofers in your trunk to scoot your car down the street.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  20. Good thing it's not that easy! by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    ... has anybody tried just asking them if they wouldn't mind merging their nuclei? It might just work.

    Gosh, I hope not.

    Just think what would happen if the hydrogen in the ocean water overheard and even a small percentage of them decided to go along...

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  21. Actual cold fusion by mdsolar · · Score: 1

    This is about bubble fusion. Those interested in cold fusion should look here http://www.lenr-canr.org/.
    --
    Get hot fusion: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html

  22. Re:The Saint Exonerated? and Doc Brown by norminator · · Score: 1

    And so will Miss Shue, who discovered cold fusion for Mr. Kilmer after she was able to travel from 1985 to 2015 with Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Fox, thanks to Mr. Fusion.

  23. Good by JustNiz · · Score: 2, Funny

    he ought to publicise the names and email addresses of his accusers.

  24. false accusations: quite rare actually. by DogFacedJo · · Score: 3, Insightful


        So - the question of 'reputation': 'Hard to shake' the reports of a former team-mate? This is primary research, and the results are bloody testable. Screw reputation. This is cricism is expected, required and to be commended. Taleyarkhan is surely not surprised that folks are jumping on every issue that they can find. If his sonofusion is replicated then he will be a hero.
    In life in general: *every* accuser of corruption is attacked as a liar. This is not fun - folks don't do this normally unless they really saw something worrisome. The accusation invariably gets themselves investigated as well, and usually by folks sympathetic to the accused. It is *not* easy to make allegations, and folks with even a hair of power constantly bury any and all criticism. Seriously, whistleblowing is not fun - not in academia, not in industry, not in public service, not in religious institutions... nowhere.
        His research has been published and folks are replicating (and, of course, mostly failing to replicate) his results. Discussions of the results (and non-results) are ensuing. This is satisfactory science. He was mocked for leaving his name off of a couple of papers that were by *very* close colleagues, which is fair too.

  25. But the consensus says. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But the consensus says they were wrong. It has already been reviewed and talked about. Why are we allowing further discusion about it?

    This is a responce I read from another post on evolution or was it Global warming. I just want to take the Time to say, "This is why!" The process let us look at it and come to adifferent conclusion and this should be used as often as possible.

    If this had been treated like other topics, no one would have taken the trouble to see if it works or not. They would have just asumed the consensus was always right.

    1. Re:But the consensus says. by mdsolar · · Score: 1

      There was no consensus on this topic. There still isn't. There is controversy surounding the first paper in Science because there were neutron sources near the setup. A later paper seemed to have accounted for this and reproduced the results. Now there is a third paper where different experimenters reproduced the results. There are other labs that are having trouble doing this.

      This is completely different from global warming. Most of the field has been over the data many times, they get the same result. When something comes out that says it might not be right, the flaw in the analysis is quickly found. Everyone has roled up their sleeves on global warming, has worked it through. That is why there is consensus.

      Consensus is not a vote. One person can hold the whole thing up if they feel their reservations have not been addressed. A consensus document requires the assent of everyone involved. There is no minority report. It produces the most conservative position possible given the data.

      Now, many people will say that science does not work that way, and they are correct. The science part is already done. The consensus report is a review of the science, not new science. The need for a consensus report is owing to the request of policy makers for information about what the science says. If you want to get involved in questioning the science, you need to steer clear of the consensus report and go back to the data. Is there a problem with the thermometers? Are the Mauna Loa measurements affected by development in Kona? Yes, there could be all these problems that somehow got past peer review, but you have to find them. And since there has already been a lot of checking with consistent results all over the place, you're going to have your work cut out for you.

      There is definitely a prejudice (a useful one) asking extraordinary claims to really demonstrate themselves and the claim of table top fusion is extraordinary. But, this prejudice is not a consensus, it is just an attitude. And it is not shared by everyone. Lab managers, for example, will see an advantage in pushing something out prematurely since it can help in bringing in funding to have a contoversial topic flying around.

      So, I hope you see what consensus really means. It is quite different from what you really mean which is prejudice.
      -
      Catch the new consensus before it forms: Get solar. http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html

  26. What about electric fusion!?! Proton 21 by cheekyboy · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.proton21.com.ua/index_en.html

    The first successful experiment was performed on February 24, 2000 in a specially created and proprietary set up. In fact, the 5,000+ successful experiments in controlled nuclei-synthesis performed since 1999, using various targets made of light, medium, or heavy elements; have allowed the research team at EDL to comprehend and evaluate this unique scientific breakthrough.
    The discovered process has been noted for its practical, environmentally friendly and extraordinary energy efficient attributes.

    Two major outcomes have emerged from this process:

            * First, the creation of an energy output far exceeding the initial impact.
            * Second, the creation of an array of unique nuclei-synthesis elements. These new elements were tested by leading scientific laboratories in Ukraine, Russia, USA, etc, and their artificial origin was confirmed.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    1. Re:What about electric fusion!?! Proton 21 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then there is this line of research, which Dr. Bussard is trying to pursue.

      The first break even was achieved back in 1959!

  27. I knew it was real by BlueCoder · · Score: 1

    Most scientists are snobs. They are just shrouded in politics and beliefs. There are a whole slew of topics that if you even mention you want to just consider the possibility of they want to revoke any credibility you may have and label you gypsy. Cold fusion is one of those topics. Fusion is nothing all that magical. It happens all around us. It's the black box that produces the same amount of energy as a traditional coal plant through fusion that is so dubious.

    Myself I'm a big fan of the idea that the earth generates some of it's internal heat from cold fusion.

    1. Re:I knew it was real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And because of such unfounded statements the snobs ignore you.

  28. Let me get this straight by sycodon · · Score: 1

    So you conduct some experiments and report the results and what you believe to be the reason behind the results. Normally, if you are wrong, someone else writes a paper and points out holes in your reasoning or flaws in your experiment, etc. So then you, a little wiser, go back and try again etc.

    But, if you should have the temerity to publish something that goes against the scientific orthodoxy, then instead of refuting you they investigate you as a fraud and a charlatan. Hmmm...it's a good thing he didn't publish something that disputes any aspect of global warming...excuse me...climate change.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Let me get this straight by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      But, if you should have the temerity to publish something that goes against the scientific orthodoxy,

      That was not the issue; the issue was that they were unable to reproduce his results.
    2. Re:Let me get this straight by sycodon · · Score: 1

      But clearly, the fact they were unable to reproduce his results was not due to fraud on his part, so instead of trying to figure out why or asking for more information, they simply said that he was a fraud. I have no doubt that because of the particular field, this particular accuser was more likely to suspect fraud. And rather than get to the bottom of why he could not reproduce or simply publish saying the results were unreproducible, he made accusations. So now, when you disagree with or don't understand someone's work, you simply call them a charlatan.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    3. Re:Let me get this straight by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      When multiple scientists are unable to reproduce it, then it is reasonable to suspect fraud. And this is not cold fusion, anyway. Sonofusion is "hot fusion", with the hot areas making up very small regions.

  29. Finally... by petrus4 · · Score: 1

    It's an encouraging first step.

    Now all we need is for the pseudo-empiricist bigots to stop posthumously calling Stanley Meyer a charlatan as well, especially considering that he was poisoned in order to get him to stop engaging in his research.

    There are a lot of things going on at the moment, research wise, which are outside the orthodoxy...and that doesn't mean they're not possible.

    One of Einstein's most redeeming characteristics was his degree of humility. There are a lot of scientists who would do well to follow his example in that regard, and to acknowledge that there is still so much that they do not know.

    1. Re:Finally... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      humilty - hence his now-famous quote:

          I find the idea of god playing dice to be beyond my limited comprehension

      NOT!

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  30. Novel findings frequently take time to be accepted by Scott7477 · · Score: 1
    For example, take the work of Georg Cantor, creator of set theory. Per Wikipedia's entry on Cantor,

    "Cantor established the importance of one-to-one correspondence between sets, defined infinite and well-ordered sets, and proved that the real numbers are "more numerous" than the natural numbers. In fact, Cantor's theorem implies the existence of an "infinity of infinities." He defined the cardinal and ordinal numbers, and their arithmetic. Cantor's work is of great philosophical interest, a fact of which he was well aware. Cantor's work encountered resistance from mathematical contemporaries such as Leopold Kronecker and Henri Poincaré, and later from Hermann Weyl and L.E.J. Brouwer. Ludwig Wittgenstein raised philosophical objections. His recurring bouts of depression from 1884 to the end of his life were once blamed on the hostile attitude of many of his contemporaries, but these bouts can now be seen as probable manifestations of a bipolar disorder. Today, the vast majority of mathematicians who are neither constructivists nor finitists accept Cantor's work on transfinite sets and arithmetic, recognizing it as a major paradigm shift. In the words of David Hilbert: "No one shall expel us from the Paradise that Cantor has created."

    I added the bold highlights to the Wikipedia quote. In case you doubt Wikipedia, my copy of Van Nostrand Reinhold's Encyclopedia of Mathematics says substantially the same thing. Cantor's work is one of the primary foundations of modern computer science.
    --
    "Lack of technical competence coupled with the arrogance of power, as usual, leads to no good end."
  31. Missing Option by iamlucky13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or maybe it's been dumbed down for/by the press.

    Physicists often over-simplify or inappropriately categorize things when trying to explain their papers to reporters (note that most journalism programs don't include courses on nuclear physics). Even if the reporter knows the difference between genuine cold fusion and sonofusion (keeping in mind that "cold" can be used somewhat ambiguously in regards to fusion), they might not expect their readers to and dumb it down themselves.

    Most likely of all is the stereotypical Professor Frink sitting in his lab babbling excitedly away about how it works while the reporter sits there and nods. When he says something like, "While individual Alpha particles are created with energies of N electron-volts, the system temperatures are on par with hypothetical cold fusion scenarios," guess which two words out such a statement will actually get written down in the reporter's notes.

    Taleyarkhan didn't claim he had caused cold fusion. He claimed sonofusion.

    For all readers getting excited about Mr. Fusion and nuclear jetpacks, I hate to inform you that Taleyarkan's experiments, assuming they genuinely did induce fusion, fell far, far short of unity.

  32. Highly persuasive evidence FOR 'real' cold fusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    On a slightly off-topic note, for those who have not been following the details in the cold fusion field, some very persuasive evidence has emerged FOR the original cold fusion experiments (the Pons-Fleischmann style cold fusion using Palladium and Deuterium). The evidence was presented by researchers at the US Navy's SPAWAR labs late in 2006. The reserchers are highly experienced scientists who have taken their time and performed the experiments thoroughly. A description of the evidence is at http://www.newenergytimes.com/news/2006/NET19.htm# ee.

    Some of the biggest problems in cold fusion experiments has been long incubation periods, perhaps weeks/months, difficulty in calorimetry experiments for determining if heat was being generated, and replication.

    Two techniques have been detailed by SPAWAR. The first is the using chemical co-deposition methods to combine Palladium and Deuterium, allowing a solid Palladium structure to form with Deuterium already 'mixed' in with it. Previously, weeks were often needed to allow absorption of Deuterium into the Palladium. Using the co-deposition technique, cold fusion effects become apparent within minutes, such as anomalous amounts of tritium, low-intensity x-ray radiation, and increased heat. This happens on a highly repeatable basis.

    The second, highly outstanding experimental result is the use of nuclear industry standard CR-39 nuclear track detectors, which look like small pieces of plastic and are permently etched with tiny impact craters whenever a high energy nuclear particle hits them. Chemical reactions cannot produce the craters or tracks. The experiment involved placing a CR-39 track detector physically next to the Palladium-Deuterium electrode.

    What resulted was the detection of some of the highest density counts ever seen on the detectors of high energy nuclear particles. Independent nuclear experts who have examined the CR-39 detectors recognized the signature tracks of protons and alpha particles, which, to be ejected from the atoms where they reside, require millions of volts - at least 1,000,000 times more energy than can be produced by any known chemical reaction. As a control experiment, exposed CR-39 detectors in a lithium solution without palladium in it resulted in only a sprinkling of tracks, randomly distributed and so few in number that they could be accounted for by background radiation.

    The only surrounding energy sources were a few volts from the current applied through electrolysis; the second is an applied external electric field of about 6,000 volts. The particle tracks look identical to tracks made by nuclear particles that have at least 2 million electron-volts.

    The really nice thing is is that you can almost see the tracks with your naked eye. Take the detectors elsewhere, to conferences etc, show others later; the tracks are permently etched evidence of nuclear reactions occuring in a Palladium-Deuterium benchtop setup.

    The evidence here for Pons-Fleischmann cold fusion is now getting to the point where the scientific community has to seriously consider that Pons-Fleischmann cold fusion DOES exist under the right conditions, whether people want to accept it or not. Hard to replicate is not the same as impossible to replicate.

  33. Does this mean by Trikenstein · · Score: 1

    that he gets to eat his enemies hearts?

  34. "another scientist" by forringer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, I am that "other scientist." It is nice to see good press for bubble fusion reach slashdot (no, I didn't submit it.)

    First, I agree with the previous posters that this is not "cold fusion." The centers of the collapsing bubbles are very hot. Apparently hot enough to cause fusion.

    The research I published was based on experiments conducted at Purdue University using a setup provided by Dr. Taleyarkhan. All equipment calibration, measurements, and data analysis were preformed by me and my students. We had full access to the equipment and we were very careful to make sure that there was nothing to contaminate our data.

    People who have read the actual paper (Transactions of the American Nuclear Society, vol 95, p 736) would agree that the results published leave no room for doubt that the neutrons are caused by the collapsing bubbles in a deuterated fluid - the appropriate control experiments were performed - the statistics are significant.

    The controversy comes because several well respected and talented physicists have not been able to reproduce Dr. Taleyarkhan's results in their own labs. This has led several people (including an editor from Nature Magazine) to conclude that Dr. Taleyarkhan must be faking his data.

    I cannot explain why it has been so hard to reproduce the results in another lab except to say that null results are pretty easy to get in any sensitive experiment and it originally took Dr. Taleyarkhan several years to perfect his methods.

    I suspect that all that is needed is a little more time and we will hear about several labs who have confirmed this work completely independently. Of course we are working on that very thing here at LeTourneau University.

    Even if it takes some time to reproduce the results at another lab, having independent researchers come to Purdue and reproduce the experiments should be a big step in moving past the controversy.

    Respectfully,
    Dr. Ted Forringer
    Assistant Professor of Physics
    LeTourneau University

    1. Re:"another scientist" by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Hi 'Another Scientist,' I wonder if you could clear something up for us, namely how close does this reaction come to break-even? Does it look like the apparatus could be modified to pass this point (i.e. is the limitation based on physics or engineering)?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:"another scientist" by forringer · · Score: 2, Informative

      > how close does this reaction come to break-even? Lets see ... we put about 10 watts of power in and got something less than 10,000 neutrons/second out. At 2.5 MeV per neutron, that is about 4e-9 Watts out. So, not close. > Does it look like the apparatus could be modified > to pass this point (i.e. is the limitation based > on physics or engineering)?" There is no physics limitation that I know of - it looks like a (hard) engineering question. Respectfully, Ted Forringer

    3. Re:"another scientist" by forringer · · Score: 4, Informative

      (sorry, I have fixed the formatting in the previous post)

      > how close does this reaction come to break-even?

      Lets see ... we put about 10 watts of power in and got something less than 10,000 neutrons/second out. At 2.5 MeV per neutron, that is about 4e-9 Watts out.

      So, not close.

      > Does it look like the apparatus could be modified
      > to pass this point (i.e. is the limitation based > on physics or engineering)?"

      There is no physics limitation that I know of - it looks like a (hard) engineering question.

      Respectfully,
      Ted Forringer

    4. Re:"another scientist" by deglr6328 · · Score: 1, Troll

      "People who have read the actual paper (Transactions of the American Nuclear Society, vol 95, p 736) would agree that the results published leave no room for doubt that the neutrons are caused by the collapsing bubbles in a deuterated fluid - the appropriate control experiments were performed - the statistics are significant."

      Well apparently everyone DOES NOT agree that there "can be no doubt" about such things. In fact, some very important physicists in the field vehemently DISagree. I find it also telling that you touting this paper as somehow being a huge blockbusting irrefutable landmark is not published Nature or Science or PNAS but in the obscure backwater Transactions of the American Nuclear Society. No doubt though that you will simply respond with frantic handwaving about some contrived prejudicial exclusion of "the mainstream journals". lol

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
  35. Original Press Release by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For some reason I can't find the link on Purdue's website, but here is the press release as it was e-mailed to me. This is where the newspapers are getting their information. -- cut -- February 7, 2007 Purdue integrity panel completes research inquiry WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - A Purdue University committee appointed to conduct an initial inquiry into internal allegations of research misconduct at Purdue by a professor of nuclear engineering has concluded its work. The committee determined that the evidence does not support the allegations of research misconduct and that no further investigation of the allegations is warranted. The committee was appointed in the College of Engineering under the university's policy on integrity in research to consider allegations against Professor Rusi P. Taleyarkhan regarding a reported confirmation at Purdue of sonofusion, the use of sonic waves in a table-top apparatus to produce nuclear fusion. Purdue's policy on integrity in research requires that all allegations of research misconduct be reviewed under procedures that ensure strict confidentiality. The policy states: "The mere suspicion or allegation of wrongdoing, even if totally unjustified, is potentially damaging to a person's career. Consequently, no information about charges of a lack of integrity in research may be disclosed except to the appropriate university and federal authorities." However, in the interest of ending speculation regarding Purdue?s inquiry, Dr. Taleyarkhan has agreed to allow the university to confirm the existence of the internal review and disclose its final result, according to Joseph L. Bennett, vice president for university relations at Purdue. "Professor Taleyarkhan cooperated fully throughout the inquiry," Bennett said. "Research at a university must be conducted with absolute integrity. When Purdue received internal allegations of research misconduct, Purdue pursued those allegations thoroughly to conclusion in accordance with the confidential procedures required by its published policy. Professor Taleyarkhan is engaged in very promising, significant research, and we hope he will now be able to give his full attention to this important work. Purdue believes that vigorous, open debate of the scientific merits of this new technology is the most appropriate focus going forward." Taleyarkhan led a research team at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory that first reported the "bubble fusion" phenomenon in a 2002 paper published in the journal Science. Those researchers later conducted additional research at Oak Ridge, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the Russian Academy of Sciences before Taleyarkhan came to Purdue in 2003 to continue his research. In March 2004 and January 2006 his group published their second and third papers on this subject. Scientists have long known that high-frequency sound waves cause the formation of cavities and bubbles in liquid, a process known as "acoustic cavitation," and that those cavities then implode, producing high temperatures and light in a phenomenon called "sonoluminescence." Researchers have estimated that temperatures inside the imploding bubbles reach 10 million degrees Celsius and pressures comparable to 1,000 million earth atmospheres at sea level. Nuclear fusion reactors have historically required large, expensive machines, but acoustic cavitation devices might be built for a fraction of the cost. Contact: Joseph Bennett, (765) 494-2082, jlbennett@purdue.edu Rusi Taleyarkhan (765) 420-7537, rusi@purdue.edu Purdue News Service: (765) 494-2096; purduenews@purdue.edu Related Web site: Purdue policy on integrity in research: http://www.purdue.edu/policies/pages/teach_res_out reach/c_22.html

  36. Perhaps... by posterlogo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Perhaps he has been "vindicated", but I'm not at all sure that the results are valid. Just because he was cleared of misconduct by the investigative board, that does not mean there isn't still some caveat to his experiments that muddles a clear interpretation of the results. What is more promising, however, is the fact that another colleague managed to get similar results. The conditions are just too difficult to recreate however (and there was some debate as to whether Taleyarkhan actually helped the colleague out significantly, so as to make the second run not really an "independent" experiment), so until more truly independent labs can reproduce the results, I'll still be taking this with a grain of salt.

  37. table top fusion? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    The three methods- heavy water battery, sonofusion, and the tesla coil can all be done with simple apparatus. None produces net energy.

  38. TAG: notscience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nu Scientist != Science

    Will Slashdot ever tire of flogging that rag at us?

  39. Scientific Breakthroughs that were first rejected by Cassini2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is my list of 10 key discoveries that were initially rejected by scientific peers, or at least not easily accepted:

    1. Theory of Relativity wasn't well received at the time. In fact, Einstein didn't actually get a Nobel Prize for it. Instead, he received the prize for other work he did dealing with quanta. http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureat es/1921/press.html

    2. Quantum Mechanics - Even Einstein didn't particularly like Quantum Mechanics and the search for the unified model. It was the home of the quote "God doesn't play dice with the universe."

    3. Darwin's Theory of Evolution - This was hotly debated at the time, and still is. On-going debates in school boards still occur.

    4. String Theory - Hotly contested, mostly because no one can show if it is actually correct.

    5. Newtonian Calculus - The notation sucked. Most of the calculus done today uses Leibniz's or Euler's notation, however all of Euler's, Newton's, Lagrange's and Leibniz's notations are still in use.

    6. Periodic Table - This was a key chemical discovery, and initially not accepted. It was a big change to the understanding at the time.

    7. Freud - The father of psychoanalysis. Many of his notions were not widely accepted, correctly perhaps. Nevertheless, he founded psychiatry.

    8. Armstrong and the FM Radio. He also designed the double-heterodyne tuner, which is the primary tuner type in use today. He died poor after leading a controversial life, and butting heads with Sarnoff at RCA.

    9. AC Power - Edison was firmly behind DC power. AC power can be sent long distances efficiently by using a transformer. DC power cannot. AC power is in use in almost all homes throughout the world, and Edison lost this technology debate.

    10. Transatlantic Radio - At first, it was not at all decided if transatlantic radio was technically feasible, and even then if it was commercially feasible. Times have changed.

    It turns out that most scientific discoveries are highly controversial initially. This controversy is a sign that they are new ground-breaking research.

  40. Re:Novel findings frequently take time to be accep by poopdeville · · Score: 1

    Cantor was a funny guy. His naive conception of sets lead to Russell's Paradox -- a serious problem. The Axiom of Choice is provable for finite sets, but not true in all infinite models of set theory. It certainly isn't intuitive.

    Cantor was no crack pot. His work on trigonometric series (that is, Fourier analysis) lead naturally to his work in set theory. He was well respected and should have had thicker skin.

    Weyl, Brouwer, Poincare were constructivist mathematicians. In broad strokes it means that they reject the law of the excluded middle and everything that implies it. Including the Axiom of Choice. They had very good reasons for wanting to do this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_(mathe matics). (In short, it comes down to philsophical realism and anti-realism)

    In short, none were crack pots. It was a serious debate with real consequences for the field. And it's not really over.

    --
    After all, I am strangely colored.
  41. Excess heat has been repeated by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    The impression that I got was that the original cold fusion wasn't repeatable anywhere and the original pair that made the claims wouldn't let anyone else touch the apparatus that they had used. Any further inquiry was basically evaded and really looked very suspicious in their behavior, and it was time to just move on.

    It's hard to figure out what exactly is going on, but this is a good overview. Things are messy, P&F certainly made errors, both scientific and political, there are people who will say cold fusion is UN-POSSIBLE no matter what evidence is presented, some proponents who BELIEVE it must exist, and even some researchers continuing to do real science to figure out what might be there, if anything.

    There's a real religious fervor to it, which is unfortunate - I've heard even scientists who do science to attempt to falsify the hypothesis are chastised by the establishment for their heresy. I accept this as an unfortunate artifact of having humans do science.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  42. Re:Scientific Breakthroughs that were first reject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which of those people were non-scientists again?

    People often confuse discussion and rejection when it comes to science. String theory is a perfect example. The physics community is spending millions of dollars on string theory research. Meanwhile, some theorists are doubting that string theory is the right scientific approach to apply to the problem of unification. Thus, they must be rejecting it? That's absurd!

    Meanwhile, fields like relativity, quantum mechanics, evolution and psychology were accepted scientifically long before they were accepted by everyone else. You give other good examples of commercial interests getting in the way of scientific progress. Where are the examples of scientists stopping scientific progress?

  43. Re:With some work, ergs in out by mrmeval · · Score: 1

    They'd need to be one way valves and the suction would pull the passengers through them....

    GET BUSY WITH THAT NOW!!!

    --
    I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
  44. Re:verification of his results by another scientis by Circlotron · · Score: 1

    As long as the experiment is verified by an odd, rather than even, number of scientists...

  45. Re:Novel findings frequently take time to be accep by The_Wilschon · · Score: 1

    FWIW, Kronecker was a finitist, you might say the finitist, and as such, no one would seriously expect him not to object to Cantor's work, which is about as contrary to finitism as it gets. Wittgenstein is also noted for finitist leanings, if you will, although he denies being an actual finitist.

    --
    SIGSEGV caught, terminating

    wait... not that kind of sig.
  46. Did anyone else read that as... by HydroPhonic · · Score: 1

    Bombardment with neutrons and psionic waves?

  47. COLD FUSION: some links by Zdzicho00 · · Score: 1
    Hi,

    Just in case if someone wants to read about this issue:

    /Z
  48. What about ITER? by kaysan · · Score: 1

    I'm no engineer/beta scientist. Hence, all the smoke and mirrors surrounding Cold Fusion confuse me; How does it relate to 'hot' Fusion? (i.e. what are the difference, besides the completely obvious) What kind of fusion project is ITER?

    1. Re:What about ITER? by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      I'm no engineer/beta scientist. Hence, all the smoke and mirrors surrounding Cold Fusion confuse me; How does it relate to 'hot' Fusion? (i.e. what are the difference, besides the completely obvious)



      Hot fusion overcomes the electrostatic repulsion between the nuclei by sufficient kinetic energy (i.e. the two nuclei are smashed together at high speed, which means that the medium in which the fusion process takes place is going to be extremely hot - millions of Kelvin. The actual volume in which this temperature exists can be minimal, though). Cold fusion uses some other, unexplained process.



      What kind of fusion project is ITER?



      Hot fusion.

  49. Re:Highly persuasive evidence FOR 'real' cold fusi by TheLink · · Score: 1

    Yeah. My opinion over the "cold fusion" thing has always been- even if it _isn't_ fusion it sure seems like there is something _interesting_ going on that's worth investigating.

    Billions have been spent on less interesting thing stuff - like the expensive international space station for instance. Not really bang for buck for "interesting stuff done". Work on making space travel cheap and reliable _first_, then only do lots of work on space stations. Not the other way round. Doh.

    --
  50. Cold Fusion ? Imitation Energy ? by ImitationEnergy · · Score: 0

    http://www.newpath4.com/millenialdawnpowerandlight secure21.htm
    and http://www.newpath4.com/enginewow.htm (air + steam), both coming
    under the heading > http://www.newpath4.com/imitationenergy.htm .

    Imitation Energy is like imitation sugar, sweet but no pollutants er calories.

    --
    Industrial Age 2 + How-to Stop Malignant Cancers.
  51. Bad Title by Mr+Europe · · Score: 1

    Scientist Exonerated
          vs
    Scientist Exonerated of Accusations

  52. Re:Highly persuasive evidence FOR 'real' cold fusi by fatphil · · Score: 1

    You don't measure energy in volts. Are you sure you understand what you're parrotting?

    --
    Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  53. I took a course under this guy by theneb · · Score: 0

    I took a course ( NUCL 200, intro to nucl engineering) under Rusi. He is a really good prof and he made the so called "filter out" class, quite enjoyable. My other friends wanted to take the same class under him, when the news came out and he stopped teaching, we were all really shocked. I still remember the errie feeling i got when walking past his closed office doors. Man it really was something. I am glad that he is cleared of all the stuff that was put against him. Thanks Purdue!

  54. however... by oohshiny · · Score: 1

    One should examine at this point whether Putterman crossed the line in his criticism of Taleyarkhan. Unwarranted or excessive criticism is probably just as harmful for the progress of science as scientific fraud.

  55. Re:Highly persuasive evidence FOR 'real' cold fusi by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
    You don't measure energy in volts.

    Actually, in particle physics, you do, sort of. Electron-Volts (eV) and multiples thereof (keV, MeV, GeV) are common units for energy if you look at particles.

  56. Re:Scientific Breakthroughs that were first reject by DM9290 · · Score: 1

    Well I have some serious issues with your list:

    1: Einstein was a mainstream scientist. He may have pursued some branches of scientific thought that others thought were lost causes - and in fact HE LOST some of them. But he was a mainstream scientist. He made specific testable predictions with relativity as required. And when the scientific evidence proved him wrong (i.e. he thought the universe was constant and unchanging and devised a cosmological constant until Edward Hubble discovered it was expanding) he ammended his theories to fit the evidence (he dropped the cosmological constant).

    2: Quantum Mechanics was proposed by mainstream scientists.. and you are seeming to contradict yourself by citing Einstein as evidence that it is non-mainstream since you call him a non-mainstream scientist in #1. In any event.. quantum mechanics was not discovered by some quack in his bathtub. It was discovered by mainstream scientists and proven using the scientific method. Einstein also didn't merely SCOFF at quantum mechanics as bad science... he tried to prove it wrong using logic. And when he was shown that his argument was flawed, he was disturbed and didn't like it, but he didn't call quantum mechanics bad science. He just insisted he was sure it was wrong and that somehow someday someone was going to prove it.

    3. Darwin was a purely a mainstream scientist. He is about as mainstream as you get, and even made major contributions to the scientific method itself. He helped to define mainstream science.

    4: String theory in every incarnation was researched by mainstream scientists... and they ADMIT that currently they can't prove it, but are refining and have some experiments which may yeild results soon. They aren't trying to spin hocus pocus they are trying to proceed using the mainstream scientific method. Briane Greene who is a major proponent of string theory is a national bestseller and his book The Fabric of the Cosmos was Discover Magazine's book of the year. He is hardly being tarred and chicken feathered.

    In the early day string theory was not widely accepted because it was SERIOUSLY DEFFECTIVE and appeared to be quite probably nothing more than a mathematical curiosity. Quite much like many other theories which did in fact turn out to be nothing more than mathematical curiosities.

    5. This is not an example of non-mainstream science. This is an example of a wealthy scientist getting more attention than a scientist of modest means. None the less.. this is all mainstream science.

    6. Periodic Table - I'm not a chemistry buff, but the only evidence I can find of the periodic table being scoffed was John Newlands's version which was wrong and is no longer used. I can't find any evidence that the periodic table we use today had major controversy except that 2 slightly different versions were invented independantly by 2 main-stream scientists.. one strictly by atomic mass, and another almost strictly by atomic mass but some elements out of order on the basis of their chemical properties (later vindicated by the discovery of electronic structure). I am not sure what this says about non-mainstream science however.

    7. Freud - The father of psychoanalysis. Here is a non mainstream scientist who's theories are still taught and idealized although there is no scientific basis for them whatsoever. Part of the problem you get when you let people get Arts Degrees in psychology. None the less... psychoanalysis *IS* bad science. This only goes to show that you can easily get your bad science accepted if you were the first person to ever bother studying some field. This his theories are all bunk they dont constitute a breakthrough.

    8. Edwin Howard Armstrong was an engineer, not a scientist. And his controversy was primarily patent disputes, not scientific disputes. No one tried to debunk FM radio as bad science. Rather it was a threat to the AM radio industry and as usual you know what happens when someone's business model is threatened. FM radio was not a breakthrough.

    --
    No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.