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Security Software Costs More to Renew Than Buy New
Matt Whipp writes "In a story I wrote for PCPro, I explore a tip submitted by one of our readers. They pointed out how much more it costs to renew security software, rather than buying it new. In fact it cost less than half the price to buy it new than it does to renew the license because of heavy discounting. He feels a bit cross that, as a loyal customer, he is the one penalized. From the article: 'ZoneAlarm may have tripped up on this discount issue, but it's not alone. It highlights just how cynical companies can be in relying on customers' assumptions that a renewal should be cheaper than buying new. McAfee's Internet Security Suite costs just £24.99 with the current 50 per cent discount. However, should you be fool enough to already be a customer of McAfee, you'll have to pay £39.99 to renew your licence.'"
Hello? Slashdot? Yes, I have an "Admiral Ackbar" on the line for you. He says it's urgent?
Spy Sweeper costs $30 new and $20 renew... that's not SO bad.
these software packages sounds like viruses to me.
a normal virus:
(1) pay me money or i'll screw up your computer.
an anti-virus:
(1) pay me money and i'll screw up your computer
(2) repeat steps 1 and 2.
There's so much great free security software out there (Avast, for instance) that for the educated consumer, the price of Norton or McAfee should be a moot point in my opinion. Not to mention that those two products are far more resource intensive than their free counterparts.
I don't know what prices one would be looking at when it comes to commercial version of Avast, or how much actual support contracts cost a company if it wants Norton on say, 1500 desktops. But for the typical consumer, paying for security software is just a waste of money.
As for McAfee's 50% discount, the latest Norton is free with rebates at certain points in the year, so as long as you wait until then to buy it, you can even get Norton free.
Why renew a license when you can just buy a newer release in a store?
I like basketball!!1!
Can't find any of their products on my workstation. Haven't seen this "norton" people keep talking about.
Decided iptables was more effective than zonealarm [more configurable] too.
Wow, I must be one of those Linux hippies...
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Lots of companies do this, and they wouldnt do it if it didnt work.
CABLE, PHONE, & INTERNET ONLY $29.99 A MONTH!!!!!!!!*
*first 3 months regular rate of $150 a month applies 4th month and on.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
I'm not so certain this a 'screwing over' loyal customers as much as it is an incentive to give new customers a cheaper opportunity to try service. This trend doesn't apply to software alone but exists in many services (phone, cable TV, etc.)
As companies compete and offer new services, you want them to offer you deals in order to entice you to try their products.
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
If you have Comcast cable internet McAfee security suite is free. Other ISPs provide security products free of charge as well. Shop for a better ISP, not for a Symantec vendor. Also, it might be a good idea not to click on things you're not sure of and stop surfing for porn so much.
This sort of drel is why I use and support Clamwin. I would rather make a donation from time to time and use open source (free) software than be held up for ransom by these crooks.
Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
When our annual contract for NAV comes up every year, I tell the guy on the phone that he is asking for to much money.
He starts giving me the run around and I say, "Thanks, but no thanks. I am going to seek alternatives to your product, have a nice day."
That usually drops the price right then and there.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
I have one odd dedicated system that is very sensitive. The only antivirus software that can be used (long story) is Norton 2001. However, Symantec won't sell you updates (at any price) for Norton 2001. You are forced to upgrade to a more recent version if you want to be current, and in this case I can't upgrade.
Oddly enough, if you install Norton 2001 on a fresh system, it works perfectly, and you get to download updates for a full year from the date of installation (which is the default).
So the updates exist, but Symantec won't sell them.
Bastards.
[n/t]
"Everybody" gets tax software, so while they have you, they discount AV software too. So, just get in sync with the low cost and buy new every year. Renewals? Ha!
If all of us were wise as the Mullah, teaser rates from credit card/mortgage companies, cell phones companies, ISPs etc wont work. But in most parts of the world, inertia rules. Once you accept a monthly bill, then they got you.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Wow, I must be one of those Linux hippies...
;-)
FreeBSD is like, "Hey, dudes! Come use our free stuff for whatever you like. Just don't forget to thanks us and it's all good."
Linux is like, "You are free to join our collective but you have to contribute if you want to distribute our free stuff. Whatever you contribute becomes part of our free stuff."
See the difference? FreeBSD is for hippies and Linux is for commies. It's a subtle distinction, I know.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Chances are your key will quit working if you have to reinstall. Think thats just chance think again. They are bad bad bad people. Dont be a dope your whole life linux rules.
Non-commercial users should never pay for security software in today's market. From free-with-rebate to free-for-home-users to free-with-ISP-services, there's no reason to pay.
Commercial MS-Windows users have fewer options, particularly on Windows Server platforms. Many freebies are limited to "1 per address" or "not for commercial use," and most won't even install or run on Windows Server platforms.
On the plus side, most vendors do have decent discounts for large-volume customers. Small businesses with more don't get those discounts and if they have more than 1 PC per address they have a very limited selection of free-for-business-use security software. There's ClamWin, the built-in Windows security software, and not a lot else.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
My wife recently bought a new computer with Windows XP to replace her aging Windows 98 machine and asked me to help with the migration. There was really only one piece of software she wanted to migrate: Quicken. I was brooding over ways and means. When she booted up her new HP machine, she said, "Oh, look! We don't need to worry about it. It comes with Quicken."
On closer inspection, it came with something called Quicken "New User Edition." It did absolutely everything she needed to do with one small exception: it wouldn't import a file from a previous version of Quicken like, for example, the Windows 98 file with five years of our financial life in it.
But fortunately it automatically offered to sell us an upgrade. Of the alternatives on offer was something called "Quicken Deluxe Edition 2006" which could be ours at a special upgrade price of just $39.95. It did many more things than my wife needed to do, but it would import older Quicken files So I shrugged, and said, "Well, gee, I dunno, seems like a lot, I suppose, line of least resistance, what the heck."
But, when she typed in her credit card number and tried to buy it, it popped up the web browser with a message saying yes, we could get Quicken Deluxe 2006, but wouldn't we rather get Quicken Deluxe 2007, which could be ours at a special upgrade price of just $49.95? We looked at each other. My wife says, rather disgusted, "You know, I'm never going to upgrade Quicken again if I can avoid it, so I suppose I should start out with the most recent version." I said, "Yeah, I guess so, but, wait just a minute."
I hurried over to my Mac, which hadn't been contamined with any versions of the Quicken software, and when I went to their website from a virgin machine, it offered me a choice that the browser on her machine had not offered: something called "Quicken Basic," which had exactly the same functionality as "Quicken New User Edition" plus the ability to import older Quicken files. For $19.95. Full price for a brand new purchase, not an upgrade.
In other words, those bastards had not only included an artificially crippled version of Quicken Basic in the HP software offering, which was bad enough, but they deliberately programmed all the auto-update-salesware to hide the cheapest and most appropriate version of the software.
I wish I could tell you that we decided not to buy any version of Quicken, but in the end of course we bought the $19.95 version.
It's things like this that really build long-term customer loyalty. My wife had always had good feelings about Quicken itself and the company that publishes it. Now she still has good feelings about Quicken but she's quite pissed off at Intuit. (And she holds grudges. Believe me.)
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Why is this specific to software?
I wanted to by soup from a deli. I asked them why a quart cost more than two pints.
I wanted to buy pizza (that is cut into eight slices). I asked for eight slices. They asked "you mean a full pie?" I said "no, eight slices is cheaper." The idiot told me that he'll give me the eight smallest slices. At which point i threated to publicize his scam. Needless to say, i got it for the cheaper price.
In the supermarket i many times look to see the difference in prices when buying bulk. Many times the smaller amount is cheaper. Not usually, but many times.
The cable Internet company offers connections for very cheap for six months, but then charges astromically after that. When i challenged i would cancel and re-sign up, they told me that there had to be a five-month break in between the two to get the discount. So, i threatened to go DSL, and got a nice discount.
While in some cases the discrepency is by malicious intent, in most cases its because the price of software is what people are willing to pay, not what it is worth. (No, they are not the same. The latter can be calculated based on what it does and how cost incurred by not having it. The former is just perception.) Being it is harder to get a new customer than to retain a customer, breaks are given.
Had the business gone in to help the customer, and the customer in full-faith accepts this, he would accept the discount and then pay the "normal" amount during the retention period. However, in todays cut-throat society, where short-term financial goals are everything, there really is no such thing as a long-term relationship. There is no retention period. The person is in the system, unless they try to leave, it which case that triggers offers of cheaper prices.
I see no fault in all of this. It may be an example of a sad state of affairs, but its just business as usual.
Have you read my journal today?
I would like the free NFL Sunday ticket every year with my satellite dish, like they give for new subscribers. But as they say "wish in one hand, crap in the other and see which one fills up first". I don't feel "punished" that its just not going to happen.
Costs $25 for a brand new Lexmark printer complete with ink cartridges. Costs $35+ for new ink cartridges. Cheaper just to buy a new printer.
i don't know if its changed, but ink refill kits in the mid 90s sucked and has ruined any positive perception I may have for them now.
...yeah, I know it isn't security software, but an upgrade that costs 2.5 times as much as buying new seems on topicl
And, no, we didn't buy the Mac version and run it on our PC. I just used the Mac browser to navigate by hand to the PC products page. Once I knew where the $19.95 Basic version was offered, I went back to my wife's PC and located the same page by browsing manually. What was happening was that the Quicken software preloaded on the hard drive takes you automatically to an "upgrade" page which fails to show you your cheapest and most appropriate option. Possibly this isn't pure evil; perhaps it is because "Quicken New User Edition" is really "Quicken Basic Edition" with a key feature crippled, and perhaps the salesware doesn't take account of this and assumes that it makes no sense to migrate from "Basic" to Basic, not realizing that your "Basic" isn't really Basic.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
No such thing as a loyal customer these days. I bet you dont change your telephone provider or Bank because you feel that sense of loyalty. Wise up and shop around fool.
http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
This is nothing new. Sports Illustrated is always running ads for "free gift with new subscription" - but if you're already a subscriber, you're out of luck.
Now consider this with a timer perspective:
1) Is it cheaper to upgrade and via installing additional components on top of an existing install.
2) Or is it cheaper to un-install; remove crap from the registry and then re-install.
Now time is the important part of this equation. How much is your time worth?
A few years ago, say back in like 2000 Norton went to this subscription model. After a year, it popped up saying your subscription had expired, do you want to renew? It was only like $6/year.
But as I upgraded to XP, I needed Norton 2002 so I bought that for $10.
Ok, so then after a year, they wanted $30. I figured out if I rebuilt my machine and reinstalled Norton, I'd get another year. But I ended up getting Norton 2003 to fix a bug in their bloody email scanner. Another $10.
Then I got a laptop and wanted another copy of Norton, so I found a deal to get Norton 2005 3-user edition for $15. Installed that. But now they got smarter, and the subscription was hard wired to a key that was on their servers. So after a year, I had no choice... couldn't reinstall, had to buy an upgrade. They wanted $39 to upgrade my 3-user edition.
But I found 2006 3-user edition for $15., so I bought that.
Well, a year passed again, and this time I went to see what the upgrade rate was. It was $80 for the 3-users!
Well, at the time I was also planning to upgrade to Vista, and I needed something that supported it. I found Norton 2007 3-user for $15 again, through buy.com after rebate.
But after the $80 thing, I'd had enough. I looked around and I ended up installing the AVG free edition on all three of my computers.
So Norton lost another customer, because of their playing games. The $6 subscription upgrade from the 2000 version was acceptable, but charging me twice or more the new product price is not.
But as i recall i would have been cheaper to get 50 single user versions than a 50 pack...however 25 2-packs would have been higher or some stupid combo that made no sense at all :(
;)
ZA pricing is bizarre, as are some of the others. But i stuck with it cause i know the workaround(bug?) to make it work with (ignore) our software
You might want to get a new pipe dream. Wireless and ubiquitious mobile computing devices will eliminate the environment in which the cyber cafe currently eeks out a meager existence. Think of it as an extinction due to global warming, rather than a meteor strike.
And the price was much less than McAfee. Oh, and it doesn't get in your way like that crap.
I use neither Mcafee or Norton. It's actually cheaper (25%) to renew my antivirus. I tried those free antivirus software. They look and feel like crap to me. I prefer Bitdefender. They also have basic Linux version for free.
\
I used to do tech support for a large ISP, and I always dreaded McAfee because that software, or crippleware as I called it, would always be the cause of most of the problems out there; Norton was also pretty bad as well! The customers would freak when they were hit with the upgrades, and of course it would cripple their machines, and who would they call...yup, us! Then we would have to refer them to the software manufacturers, and these people were not happy at all...especially the somewhat savvy ones that actually seemed to know how to right click! These programs cost the users tons of cash for not only the actual upgrade costs, but for the time spent in trying to configure, and use the programs! Millions are spent every day trying to do simple things like e-mailing, and surfing the internet...simple things should not be complicated for the uninitiated, but then again they need to justify their existence! I use Avast myself, and absolutely no problems whatsoever! Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall is another great program, and is a snap to use as well...to bad that they aren't pre-installed on people's computers!
Every time I see these kinds of articles, stuff on the lack of security in Windows, etc, I am just so glad that I got off that bandwagon.
Sure, Linux isn't perfect, but between hardware and software firewalls, checking logs, running tripwire, and a few other security things a responsible net-connected computer user should do, my systems are pretty safe.
Nobody folds me over a chair any more.
I have Quickbooks 99'
Intuit had a Quickbooks Starter Edition 2007 but it doesn't import my old stuff.
Sounds familliar?
I endded up buy Quickbooks Pro 2007 for $200 instead of $40 just for the import feature.
BTW: I didn't upgrade until this year because at some point in the product's life,
Intuit sends an updates that *KILLS* functionality like the ability to reconscile your bank account online. Nothing changed on the bank's side, Intuit just disabled the code at my end.
Now that's customer service!
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
My mom, who runs Windows, called me because she was having a problem with "Norton Virus." I was going to correct her that it's "Norton Antivirus," then I realized she was right.
I don't run Windows, but everyone I know who does (mostly extended family members) is always asking about issues they're having. Watching the set up and operation of these programs, it's no wonder. The whole thing is a sick joke.
The "cure" is probably worse than the disease.
Does this "security" software really do anything at all?
After using Linux / Windows for over a decade, I've never installed a virus or adware (except in a virtual machine created for the purpose, once). When I actually ran antivirus software, I never had one of them programs save me from a virus or malware. Granted, I'm an experienced computer user, and know not to click on random attachments, or download pirated software from strange sites on the internet. I have had machines broken into remotely, but that was traced back to a remotely exploitable security hole. None of the current products would have helped with that. (Windows has a firewall; Linux does too.)
I know a few people who regularly have their anti-virus software block viruses in email attachments, exe's etc. All of those people also have viruses, keyloggers and spyware on their system, and probably need to reformat their drives.
I also know people who wouldn't get viruses, but run anti-virus and third party firewall software anyway (the network admins require it). They have consistent problems with Windows (horrendous performance, network crashing,...), that I've never seen while running microsoft's firewall (or zone alarm, for that matter), with no anti-virus software.
So, do customers actually benefit from antivirus software and personal firewalls that bombard you with suspicious packet notifications, or is it a waste of their time and money?
May I humbly suggest you try Moneydance? It will import Quicken files, isn't loaded with bloatware, adware, and spyware, and the developer listens to his customers. It only costs $30. Not only that, but he hasn't charged an upgrade fee since 2004, through three different full-version upgrades! It also runs on almost any platform, including OS/2(!).
I switched from Quicken in 2005 when I dumped Winders for good. It's really very good, even if it is written in Java...
Why buy anti-virus software at all? I understand if you are in a business setting. I usually recommend it to people who aren't computer savvy. For myself, I haven't run a full-time anti-virus package on my laptop for several years. I run the windows firewall, I update when I need to and I run in user mode, not admin. I do run the microsoft defender for spyware just because it seems to have a small footprint and not use too many resources. I do run IIS on it for development.
Norton has done way more damage to systems than they have fixed on systems I have worked on. McAfee is on my work pc and I don't have too many problems with it, but they do occur. I usually run a free online virus scan on my laptop about once every other month or sometimes less frequently then that. Usually amounts to a bunch of cookies and a couple of java apps in my browser cache. Delete and move on. Compared to the problems with running a virus scanner it's much easier for me. Anyone else feel the same way?
well, you could either buy in UK stirling or US dollars. the dollar
price as ALREADY less (we get screwed in the UK all the time this way!)
AND the exchange rate was VERY favourable (almost 2.0 USD per 1.0 UKP)
so I paid in US dollars on credit card and therefore paid less than a
quarter of the UK upgrade price.
the global economy DOES work if you know how to make it work.
PS this security product sucks - but since it was the one already on that
Windows box and the one they are used to driving and I'm not paid to
do tech support for it (I had recommended a Mac Mini from day one.....)
an upgrade is all i got and sorted (installed) for them. the upgrade actually
lost 2 bits of functionality too - those of you with knowledge of these products
can probably pinpoint which software I'm now talking about
How? And how is this possibly insightful? Windows OneCare Live is $49.95 a year for 3 PC's, regardless of whether it's a renewal or new customer. Sounds to ME that Microsoft is one of the ONLY companies doing it correctly! (selling ONLY the service, not the software)
Symantec lets you legally download their updates, for free, from their FTP servers. ftp://ftp.symantec.com/AVDEFS/norton_antivirus/. Extract the files from the .exe to NAV's Incoming directory using WinRAR and you're good to go. (One minor problem is that the newest version of Norton's security bloatware seem to "protect" their program directories by default, so you have to disable that setting in order to install updates manually.
And if you look around online, there's actually a Windows batch file that will do it for you automatically. You can even schedule it with Windows Task Scheduler.
I once lived in an apartment complex where they did something similar.
I lived in a one bedroom apartment and my lease came up. I noticed they were running a "special" on their two bedroom apartments, whereby it was $100 a month cheaper than "market" rate. I wanted to move to one, but they told me that as a current resident, I was not eligible to get the 2 BR for the promotional price. It was so stupid, that I just moved someplace else.
This is very similar to the argument that DRM is a win-win. From their perspective, they can offer you ten copies of their current hot movie - one for every type of player in your life - at super affordable prices ranging fron $4.95 to $24.95 depending on the application. If you only need, say, a PSP version and a DVD for the living room, you might only spend $12-13. That's a huge savings over the "full" user fee you might have to pay if you needed two for the cars, an HD version for the HT, a couple PSP versions for the kids, onefor each of the mobile phones, and a DVD copy for the bedroom TV. That might set you back over $100, but with DRM, you'll be saving over $80 - and that's money in your pocket!
Of course, that ignores the fact that a single, legitimate non-DRM's copy could be converted for personal use, which is allowed by law, from a single $15 copy off of ebay.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
This shouldn't be a shock to anyone. Anyone who has taken an intro college business class knows the saying, "Give away the razor, sell the blades."
It's my thoughts. So let them be.
I worked in the circulation department of a very large magazine for about 4 years, and learned a lot about the industry by being working closely with our data carrier that managed the majority of America's publishing data.
"Renewals are your profit engine" was industry-wide strategy. In fact, the vast majority of magazines expect to be money losing propositions for publishers for the first 3 years someone is subscribed. The job of the Circulation department was to figure out the best way to gradually raise the price, and lower the value, of the renewals until they became profitable. This isn't easy, as each magazine comes with far better subscription offers already inside of it. So the whole key to making money with a subscription model, is to distract the customer from the fact that you are blatetently offer then less for more. You can do that a lot by making the value of the offer more difficult to quantify (you get a calendar, and a free issue, and then 2 more issues for half price!); but the most effective tool is to play up their desire for continuity ("don't miss a single issue!").
It always struck me as ridiculous that my whole company's business model hinged on our best customers not noticing something fairly obvious. But as the job of my department was to make things less obvious - it's not really a matter of being an intelligent customer; it's a matter of being too busy to spend the time figuring out when you're getting a worse deal.
Yea, I know this is a thread about software subscriptions; but the principles are the same.
If you're buying something via subscription (security updates, software "assurance", or magazines) - know that there is a whole *industry* who's sole purpose is to make it a pain in the butt to figure out that each renewal deal is worse than the last. It's not a nacient industry, it's ridiculously sophisticated. So before you subscribe to anything, either figure out exactly how to drop your subscription and restart it instead of renewing it (let's just go ahead and assume the renewal deals are always worse, because they are), and decide if it still makes the initial bargain worth it. Or, if the convenience of not paying attention to the whole issue is worth eventually paying usually 3 times what you start out with.
Another interesting note on the topic - companies which do this are frequently kind of secretely embarrassed about it. As with ours, you may find that if you point out "Hey... I've been a customer for years and you're trying to renew me at Y, but someone who signs up now only has to pay X"; they'll frequently give you the introductory offer.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Every year for the last 5 or 6 I have gotten McAfee for a cost of 0. Sometimes I even get money back. Every year they have Internet Security Suite for anywhere between 70-90 locally. At some point they will price the software 35-45 dollars. Going from Staples to best buy or vice versa nets you another 10% off that price. The rebate offer for having a previous version normall is 40. So most of the time I pay under 40 and mail in the rebate offer and get a check for 40. Not only is it free but often I make money by purchasing their software.
It highlights just how cynical companies can be in relying on customers' assumptions that a renewal should be cheaper than buying new.
I do not think it means what you think it means.
You both need to go use KMyMoney2 or Gnucash, or something similar -- web based, even. Pay some 13-year-old $50 to set her old computer up as a Linux desktop, or webserver, depending on which is easier for your financial data. Then, whenever Intuit nags you with a new version, take their asking price and offer it as a bounty for whatever killer feature you miss from Quicken.
You NEED open formats, and you've just demonstrated why.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
AVG Free Edition
AntiVir Personal Edition Classic
Trend Micro
Avast
ClamWin Free Antivirus
They are pretty good also. Most corporations and big business get discounts, so I guess if you have a small business you are out of luck. Although I only recommend the full bloated commercial versions of Norton or McAfee for computer illiterate users or non-techies. Five Free Anti Virus Programs
Restict by bro act virus do harm my laptop.To kill it: 1. Go to Safe Mode. 2. Disable System Restore 3. Show hidden files ( c/panel / Folder 0ptions / View / tick show hidden Files & Folders. 4. Download Itty Bitty Process Manager to Kill Process virus in background,find svchost.exe file & kill process. 5. SEARCH type bro_act, delete all when you find it. 6. Go to 'run' and Type Regedit. Edit / Find & type bro_act and delete that files. 7. Empty Recycle Bin. 8. Download Kaspersky Anti-Virus update & run.] why buy when you can get it for free?:)