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Why DRM Cannot Open Up New Business Models

An anonymous reader writes "Techdirt has a cool post up that doesn't just explain why DRM is bad, but gives a really interesting economic explanation for why DRM cannot create successful new business models. Since the RIAA and MPAA keep insisting that DRM will create new business models, it's useful to see an argument for why that's basically impossible." As the article says, anyone can create a "new" business model. Creating a successful "new" business model is what is so elusive here.

131 comments

  1. YOU MUST SUPPORT DRM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Or the terrorists will listen to our music for free!

    Do you want your children to listen to the same music as terrorists?

    I thought so...

    1. Re:YOU MUST SUPPORT DRM! by Da+Fokka · · Score: 1

      You mean like this?

  2. Say what? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

    So the idea of selling digital downloads of on-the-radio songs for 99 cents doesn't count?

    1. Re:Say what? by Allicorn · · Score: 1

      Is that impossible to do without DRM?

      --
      OMG!!! Ponies!!!
    2. Re:Say what? by merreborn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe the argument is that iTunes has succeeded in spite of DRM, not because of DRM.

    3. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. iTunes has DRM. iTunes has succeeded. The reason they succeeded may not be because they have DRM but it seems that, in spite of what the article says, they have developed a new successful business model with DRM. DRM is not a hindrance.
       
      Stop being a bunch of whining theives and start paying for music.

    4. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      So the idea of selling digital downloads of on-the-radio songs for 99 cents doesn't count?

      Doesn't count as what?

      Digital music is a non-scare good; however, adding DRM isn't adding value to the person paying for it. It is removing value by limiting the choices that the music can be played upon. In essence, you are subtracting value or functionality.

      Remember that RIAA wanted to create a variable pricing model for digital music. Now lets apply that to the above example. How much woild you pay for DRM'd music that costs $2 - $3 dillars per song? At that price; 10 songs woild cost between $20 to $30 dillars for the same number of tracts to a CD. How much woild you pay for a:
        1. DRM'd CD with less audio quality (128 bits aka not CD quality)
        2. Only being able to play the music on one media player or one device
        3. More flexibility for a standard CD purchase because there is no DRM
        4. Limiting the amount of copies for personal use (IE creating mix / compilation CD's)

      Granted you get the convenience of:
        1. Getting only the songs you want
        2. Buying the music online; aka avoiding a physical store

      Ultimately IMHO the consumer is loosing more than their gaining. However, personal tastes and opinions may vary due to the value added or subtracted to each item listed above.

    5. Re:Say what? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can't show that, it's not even an argument. You can't support that line of thinking because there is no version of iTunes without DRM to compare to. Saying iTunes succeeded "in spite of" DRM is more wishful thinking than any kind of argument, it's sort of like climate change denial: "we can't affect the polar ice caps, that's silly! oh, we are? well it would have happened anyway".

      The problem with DRM is it switches off peoples brains. The linked article is a great example. The guy writing it apparently doesn't understand economics at all, and compensates by throwing around buzzwords and reducing everything to absurdity. He goes on to make a series of obvious statements like "For a new business model to make sense, it needs to provide more value" and another series of meaningless ones like "value is not a scarce concept" (you can't have a non-scarce concept).

      Finally, his argument (I use the term loosely) is invalidated by counter-example - DRM clearly does let you create 'new' business models because it lets you rent things that otherwise you'd have to buy. For instance you can get all-you-can-eat access to a large music library for as long as you pay a subscription. Whether these business models will succeed or not, I cannot say. I know people who subscribe to them and are happy with them. Nonetheless it's impossible to argue that this is not a business model enabled by DRM - if your access did not expire then it'd be equivalent to giving away huge amounts of content for free.

      His other article is a waste of time too. He says:

      They don't believe that the free market can function with a lack of scarcity. It's understandable why that could make some uncomfortable -- but, it's a fundamental misunderstanding based on this desire to force scarcity where there is none, just so economics can continue to be the study of scarcity

      Economics is a study of scarcity, that's pretty much its definition. He implies a market can function without scarcity but doesn't elaborate on how that would work, instead simply claiming the unbelievers are "uncomfortable" due to a "fundamental misunderstanding". But we already know what happens when something becomes non-scarce - it's price drops to zero, as can be seen by logging onto any big filesharing network.

      Basically, he claims there's an economic solution to non-scarcity of information that doesn't involve DRM. I've been looking for such a theory for some time, and never found one. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and he presents none.

    6. Re:Say what? by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For instance you can get all-you-can-eat access to a large music library for as long as you pay a subscription. Whether these business models will succeed or not, I cannot say. I know people who subscribe to them and are happy with them. Nonetheless it's impossible to argue that this is not a business model enabled by DRM - if your access did not expire then it'd be equivalent to giving away huge amounts of content for free.

      No not for free if you pay for the subscription. Maybe you would be selling music for very low prices then, but that is not a problem since there is no limit to the amount of music or downloads that the world can supply. Just make more. If the artist makes a song, and only get's one tenth of a cent for each download, but a 10 million people download it, that's $10,000. Make ten decent songs a year, and you have a good living. Sure you can wank about advertising costs and millionaire rockstars, but those things are not necessary to good music, they might even inhibit it. There are thousands if not millions of people it this world with worthy musical skill. Recording and distribution only consume electricity and bandwidth, which are easily renewed and plentiful. Why is the supply of music kept as artificially low as the supply of diamonds? Same reason: to inflate the price. At least with diamonds there is a limited supply.

      --
      We are all just people.
    7. Re:Say what? by pudro · · Score: 1

      Despite your saying "what the article says", I don't think you actually read it (what a surprise). Or if you read it you somehow couldn't understand it. As it clearly says in the summary, it is about "why DRM cannot create successful new business models". Notice the bold word there. It never claims that DRM has to be a hindrance (though it is for many who use iTunes despite its success). If you don't understand what the article says, it's hardly your place to criticize it.

      I'll pay for my downloads when they aren't neutered. Until then, I'll just rip CDs.

      --
      Freedom is assumed. Then they try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free.
    8. Re:Say what? by fymidos · · Score: 1

      > But we already know what happens when something becomes non-scarce - it's price
      > drops to zero, as can be seen by logging onto any big filesharing network

      Really? potatoes are not scarce, but i don't see the price dropping to zero anytime soon...
      What is different with this, is that the actuall *cost* of producing it is zero. And there is no
      logic in DRM.. you simply cannot put the worms back in the box. The music and movie industry
      will simply have to cope with selling for much lower prices... There is still a lot of money
      to earn, *if* they provide something for the consumers money.

      --
      Washington bullets will simply be known as the "Bulle
    9. Re:Say what? by DarkOx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But we already know what happens when something becomes non-scarce - it's price drops to zero, as can be seen by logging onto any big filesharing network.

      Maybe that is the point here... Certain types of "information" are now so ubiquitous that they are infact worth just about zero. Maybe we should not worry so much about wether the system will encorage people to produce entertainment, or even art. Maybe we as a society are producing too much entertainment.

      I hate to say this but it is after all the option nobody seems to be considering, perhaps we have reached a point where this stuff is so easily had that without a questionably legal cartel to artifically prop up prices supply is in excess of demand. If less entertainment was produced people might not choose to patronize those who produce work they like, they might thing hey given the releative SCARCITY of media products I like maybe it would be fun to have the physical materials that normally come with or join their subscription service to get their new stuff sooner, whatever. As it stands now there is so much out there for everybody that I think most consumers can't figure out what they *want* but they can get *everything* free so they do and end up buying nothing.

      I think there certainly *is* a market for music, film, art, etc just not as big of one as has been created by legislative and technological(DRM) rent seeking the industry has engaged in. The amount of value this society places on these products has become HIGHLY distorted. I bet if we roll back copyright rules to what they were at the end of the nineteenth centry and call the *IAAs what they are organizations that enable illegal colusion and price fixing we get as a result in a pretty short time frame:

      1. A much smaller entertainment industry dollars and cents wise
      2. A much smaller entertainment industry in terms of product output
      3. Much higher quality entertainment products that are produced
      4. Consumers paying(voluntarily) for a much larger portion of the entertaiment products they use
      5. A functioning market place where consumers reward producers for stuff they like and stuff they don't like sits unsold on shelves and ceased to be prodcued. Since the industry would no longer be able to afford the marketing power to tell people they like something when the really don't.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    10. Re:Say what? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      "You can't show that, it's not even an argument. You can't support that line of thinking because there is no version of iTunes without DRM to compare to. Saying iTunes succeeded "in spite of" DRM is more wishful thinking than any kind of argument, it's sort of like climate change denial: "we can't affect the polar ice caps, that's silly! oh, we are? well it would have happened anyway"."

      Chewbacca Defense.

      "you can't have a non-scarce concept"

      I really have no idea how you came up with that. A 'concept' is an idea formed from a specific incident. I would bet that the 'concept' of people living on the moon was about as 'non-scarce' as you could get, when the moon landing was broadcast on television. That is just uniquely generated concepts. When you tell someone your idea, you have reproduced that concept, and by definition, once it has been reproduced enough times, it is 'non-scarce'.

      "Finally, his argument (I use the term loosely) is invalidated by counter-example - DRM clearly does let you create 'new' business models because it lets you rent things that otherwise you'd have to buy. For instance you can get all-you-can-eat access to a large music library for as long as you pay a subscription. Whether these business models will succeed or not, I cannot say. I know people who subscribe to them and are happy with them. Nonetheless it's impossible to argue that this is not a business model enabled by DRM - if your access did not expire then it'd be equivalent to giving away huge amounts of content for free."

      Um..Then the video rental business neither exists, nor has ever existed? Non-DRM rentals of products have been happening for a very long time. In fact, I can't think of any business other than software and (recently) music that has ever used DRM. With software, it is well known that DRM hurts sales unless you have a monopoly. I won't comment on music, as that would be a self referencing argument.

      "But we already know what happens when something becomes non-scarce - it's price drops to zero,"

      Water.

      "Basically, he claims there's an economic solution to non-scarcity of information that doesn't involve DRM. I've been looking for such a theory for some time, and never found one. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and he presents none."

      Red Hat.

    11. Re:Say what? by init100 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Stop being a bunch of whining theives and start paying for music.

      You don't have to be a thief/pirate to abhor DRM.

    12. Re:Say what? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Nonetheless it's impossible to argue that this is not a business model enabled by DRM - if your access did not expire then it'd be equivalent to giving away huge amounts of content for free.
      Like the radio? And before you come back with "of course not, that's *different*" realize that the same argument was made about commercial radio back when it was new tech.

      Basically, he claims there's an economic solution to non-scarcity of information that doesn't involve DRM. I've been looking for such a theory for some time, and never found one.
      There is no scarcity in information distribution any more. But scarcity remains in all the ancillary services - creation, promotion, packaging and selection/quality-control. All those services are both scarce - because they can only be done by creative humans, not rote instruction, and actually create value whereas DRM only reduces value by taking away utility, never increasing it.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    13. Re:Say what? by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      Well, not really. Define 'success'. Do you mean 'succeeded' for Apple? They make money from the hardware, not the songs. Succeeded for the labels? Nope. Don't earn anything either. Succeeded for the artists? Urm, no again. Just about the only people it succeeded for was the average (not tech-savy) user. iTunes DRM works fine for them, (even though the vast majority of content being listened to on iPods is pirate). Just don't expect to hear that point of view expressed here. Oh, and are they upset about DRM? Nah, either my kids swap files by burning CDs, or they ask Dad to fix it...

    14. Re:Say what? by tajmorton · · Score: 1

      Um..Then the video rental business neither exists, nor has ever existed? Non-DRM rentals of products have been happening for a very long time.
      Huh? The video you rent expires after a certain time (when you return the video). You can't "rent out" DRM-free music, as it's never "returned."
      --
      Tell the truth and you won't have so much to remember.
    15. Re:Say what? by sakusha · · Score: 1

      You can't support that line of thinking because there is no version of iTunes without DRM to compare to..

      Actually, that's the whole point. Without DRM, there was no iTunes Music Store. With DRM, the studios permitted downloads via the ITMS. The lack of DRM prevented ITMS from launching, it exists only because Jobs convinced the studios that DRM would minimally protect their product and then they committed to the new business model.
    16. Re:Say what? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      A) Returning the video is NOT DRM. B) Perhaps you lived in a cave through the 80, but people having HUGE collections of movies they copied from VHS rentals was common. It's just that the vast majority of people that rented didn't care to keep the data permanently.

    17. Re:Say what? by Quantam · · Score: 1

      The problem with DRM is it switches off peoples brains. The linked article is a great example. The guy writing it apparently doesn't understand economics at all, and compensates by throwing around buzzwords and reducing everything to absurdity.

      Ah, so I'm not the only one who thought so. There's a quote from one of the design meetings/debates at our company: "The database can't be so abstract that it doesn't contain anything!" I think that's exactly what this article is - so abstract that it doesn't really contain any useful information at all.

      --
      You have tried to support your argument with faulty reasoning! Go directly to jail; do not pass Go, do not collect $200!
    18. Re:Say what? by newhoggy · · Score: 1

      Maybe the article should not claim that DRM is an impossible business model, but rather claim that DRM is bad for the economy because it reduces the total value of the economy and therefore should not be allowed despite the fact that it is possible to make a business model out of it.

  3. huh? by Kohath · · Score: 1

    iTunes Music Store isn't a successful new business model?

    1. Re:huh? by garcia · · Score: 1

      What, delivering content online and having a required device to play this content without modification? No, it's not a new business model.

    2. Re:huh? by Kohath · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, it's not a new business model.

      Did I miss the documentary that showed the ancient Romans invented it?

    3. Re:huh? by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      iTMS is successful despite DRM, not because of it. It would have been more successful had apple not forced DRM on it's tracks.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
  4. Waking up to the reality by Ckwop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The legitimate download industry has a problem. Their products can't compete with the freely available infringing versions of the same content.

    Their products cost more and they are less useful. The only selling point they have is that the copy they give you is legitimate.

    However, rightly or wrongly the vast majority of people are willing to ignore this if the unlawful version is materially better than the legal version.

    The music industry has to react logically to the situation rather than emotionally. Until they do that, decline is all they can look forward to.

    Simon

    1. Re:Waking up to the reality by Teresita · · Score: 1

      RIAA admits they got the idea for this business model from SCO Group. You give SCO $699 USD, and they give you a piece of paper that says your install of Ubuntu is totally free of their intellectual property. Never mind that your spouse took the same CD you burned from the same .ISO from the same FTP mirror, until she gives them $699 SCO cannot certify that her install of Ubunto is totally free of their intellectual property.

    2. Re:Waking up to the reality by sinij · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>The legitimate download industry has a problem. Their products can't compete with the freely available infringing versions of the same content.

      I disagree, legitimate download industry at a certain price point has a problem competing with better (DRM-free) product of the same content.

      As a legitimate supplier of songs you have an advantage - you have guaranteed quality, broader availability and last but not least - legitimacy. Problem is that traditional profit margins enjoyed by the monopolistic industry are not sustainable with this business model.

    3. Re:Waking up to the reality by secolactico · · Score: 1

      You give SCO $699 USD, and they give you a piece of paper that says your install of Ubuntu is totally free of their intellectual property.

      Actually, they never say that Linux is free of their intellectual property. For $699 you buy "protection" from their lawsuits. They are licensing to you whatever code they might own that happens to be of their property.

      --
      No sig
    4. Re:Waking up to the reality by ephedream · · Score: 1

      Well RIAA ARE reacting logically, and not emotionally, to the situation.

      Logic:
      1. Given they must make as much profit as possible for their shareholders, they must then find any method they can to keep the money coming in.
      2. This means bribing politicians in pathetic attempts to make oppressive DRM laws like making every single electronic device having built-in DRM and things like the DMCA to make "breaking copyright protection" a criminal act. Then work with companies like microsoft to create DRM standards in Vista to lock people into buying DRM-ready hardware that is extremely limiting in functionality in an attempt to force people to buy your shitty intellectual property products at obscene prices.
      3. Profit.

    5. Re:Waking up to the reality by daeg · · Score: 1

      But that doesn't have to remain the case.

      If I could download high-quality (FLAC!), DRM-free music I'd pay for it. I'd pay for knowing that it's tagged correctly, named correctly, and actually is the content that it says it is. I'd pay for not having to rename my music and listen to each song the whole way through to make sure it's a complete song, free of artifacts and background noise, etc. I'd pay for knowing the artist is getting the money (minus some cost for the music store directly).

    6. Re:Waking up to the reality by jZnat · · Score: 1

      There's always Magnatune; they offer FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, VBR MP3, AAC, and even 128k MP3 (gratis) for all their albums. Hell, if you like Metallica, even they offer FLAC and MP3 recordings of their concerts. More sites that sell or offer FLACs are listed on FLAC's website.

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    7. Re:Waking up to the reality by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      There is emusic.com which offers all of it's music in MP3's encoded with Lame using --preset standard

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    8. Re:Waking up to the reality by Eivind · · Score: 1
      You have an advantage to start with. Only this far, in -practice- the legitimate services has choosen to voluntarily toss away this advantage in the name of restricting their customers. (DRM does nothing to piracy anyway, so the pirates aren't affected)

      A DRM-infected version of an album is, in practice, grossly inferior to any openly documented format. Ideally flac or ogg, but even plain-old mp3s are an order of magnitude more versatile, despite the patent-crap on them.

    9. Re:Waking up to the reality by FooMoeDee · · Score: 1

      Their products can't compete with the freely available That's a technical specification of audio transmission--it's largely nondirectional or, at least, significantly moreso than laser radiation. More succinctly: there is no secret that the technology to freely and easily rip, copy, and burn a CD has been available since the mid-90s. People share music for the same reason that men build roads: because they can. It's what they do. Musicians know this when they become musicians and they still choose to become musicians.

      Maybe the RIAA didn't get the memo.
      --
      Foo'-Mo'-D says,"Wutup foo?"
    10. Re:Waking up to the reality by Kjella · · Score: 1

      As a legitimate supplier of songs you have an advantage - you have guaranteed quality, broader availability and last but not least - legitimacy.

      Ok, not songs but TV shows and movies:
      1) Until quite recently I could get way better quality from HDTV rips from the states than locally. I still can't get HDTV without a big investment in new hardware.
      2) As for availability, there's usually half a week lag between US/UK (Dr.Who) air date and availability, which is way faster than the legitimate supplies.

      I guess that leaves... *drumroll* legitimacy. I honestly don't know any other advantage. Perhaps that I could drive down to the rental store and get a movie in an hour, while a download takes until the next day. I was never the type to do that anyway, and I'd forget to return the DVDs which is a minus to convienience/price in my book.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:Waking up to the reality by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      True, here's two examples.

      Imagine Prada bags on the street started being better quality than the originals Better Stiching etc.

      Now imagine this happened consistently, suddenly "Knockoff Prada" becomes a better brand than Prada.

      This is the same with Pirate Music, Pirate Music is better than Music therefore Pirate Music is the new hot brand.

      What got me thinking about this is my knock off Rolex, I like it because it's heavy and well made (Well the band is nice, the internals are cheap) I got it for $1 in China (Along with 5 for friends), to find a comparable watch here would be at least $120.

      If they just took the Rolex Brand off their watches they could make a fortune based on quality and price (Design is probably stolen though how much watch design changes eludes me).

      If the music industry's don't move faster Pirate Music like Fake Rolex will become a powerful brand. And personally "I love my Rulaxtm".

      Rulex

  5. DRM is the only way to get conrtent. by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 1

    Just tell Joost that (www.joost.com), they managed to get Viacom's portfolio signed up, now Viacom is issuing takedown notices to their content hosted on YouTube and clones but Joost has their content because they have a DRM delivery method.

    --
    http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    1. Re:DRM is the only way to get conrtent. by vivaoporto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, right. As if good old Red Book CDs weren't selling like cupcakes. Except for the most tech savvy share of the population, Joe Sixpack and Mary Housewife (the gross of the population) will not know/bother to "pirate" music (or movies, for all that matters). As one exec said in a previous article, "would daddy give his daughter The Little Mermaid on a DVD written with a Sharpie"?

      Sell it for an affordable price and people will buy. Don't, and people won't buy (or "pirate"). Whoever is getting it for free will continue, regardless of DRM, as time has been proving repeatedly.

    2. Re:DRM is the only way to get conrtent. by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No he could buy her the stuffed cuddly toy and take her to the cinema instead.

      --
      http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    3. Re:DRM is the only way to get conrtent. by AussieVamp2 · · Score: 1

      I disagree with the first part, my tech completely tech-clueless 60 year old next-door neighbour was using Limewire. Garden variety people my spousal unit worked with did movies (and even covers!). So anybody and everybody is, because it isn't very hard.

      The second part is certainly true, though. Sell them for $40 and they are xmas presents only. At $4.99, you buy 'em whenever, even if average.

  6. No, that does not count. by Erris · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So the idea of selling digital downloads of on-the-radio songs for 99 cents doesn't count?

    You could do that without digital restrictions and should. If you try to restrict your customers, you will be dependent of M$ and or the RIAA majors to deliver your product. Those people are not known for fair competition and are both kings of repositories of stale, second rate junk pushed at monopoly rates. If you think you can make a "new" business in that kind of market, more power to you. I think you will be just another RIAA vassal station.

    --
    DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
    1. Re:No, that does not count. by Thexare+Blademoon · · Score: 0

      M$>

      Tell me I'm not alone in wanting to shoot people who use that.

    2. Re:No, that does not count. by twitter · · Score: 1

      Tell me I'm not alone in wanting to shoot people who use [M$].

      I'm sure a few brainwashed chair throwers in Redmond would agree with you, but they are all sad and angry people. Why don't you take a nice little iPod break to calm your nerves? Visit the archive.org live music collection and pick up some cool new tracks in your choice of ogg, flac, mp3 and others. Free culture is soothing like that.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    3. Re:No, that does not count. by falsified · · Score: 1
      I hear ya. I'm no Microsoft fan, but pointing out a corporation's greed (as if that were somehow unexpected or native only to Microsoft) is meaningless. Corporations are for making money and they're good at what they do.

      As Voltaire once said: "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

      --
      HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.
    4. Re:No, that does not count. by pudro · · Score: 1

      I'm a member of a forum where using "M$" is a bannable offense, not because anyone likes Microsoft there (they don't) but because its use is stupid and annoying. They don't censor anything swear words there, but last I knew they did sensor "lol" and another annoying term I can't remember at the moment. It seems over the top to some, but I absolutely love it.

      --
      Freedom is assumed. Then they try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free.
    5. Re:No, that does not count. by westlake · · Score: 1
      If you try to restrict your customers, you will be dependent of M$ and or the RIAA majors to deliver your product. Those people are not known for fair competition and are both kings of repositories of stale, second rate junk pushed at monopoly rates.

      The majors' repositories go back to the beginnings of recorded music. The majors' respositories include recordings that are the core of any serious collection, in any genre you could name.

    6. Re:No, that does not count. by HeroreV · · Score: 1

      Intimidating/forcing people into changing their behavior doesn't change how they feel. Even if he was electrocuted to near death every time and he stopped doing it, he would still want to. If you want to change how people feel, your best bet is to provide a convincing argument.

    7. Re:No, that does not count. by canUbeleiveIT · · Score: 1
      There are quite a number of idiotic things people write on slashdot that piss me straight off, M$ is just one of them. Here's a short list:
      • "M$"
      • starting out a post with "ummm" or any of it's variants
      • "boxen"
      • political sigs that pander to the prevailing slashdot hive mentality
      • ass-kissy posts that seem to confer demi-god status on prominent nerds like Linus Torvalds or "DVD Jon"
      There are probably more, but I can't think of them at this moment.
    8. Re:No, that does not count. by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      There are quite a number of idiotic things people write on slashdot that piss me straight off, M$ is just one of them. Here's a short list:

      "boxen"

      "Boxen" is "boxes" in German. German pisses you off?

      Falcon
    9. Re:No, that does not count. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ummmm... I agree Linus Torvalds isn't a demi-god, but he IS a god. Who else could create something that I would run on all my boxen? HE is the shining leader in the fight against the oppression of M$.

      ------
      In Soviet Russia, M$ hates YOU!!

  7. there's a better argument here by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Interesting

    markets always favor efficiency. pre-internet, the cd makers, tape makers, lp makers, etc., they could successfully stand between the artist and the consumer and collect tolls for a valuable service they performed: distribution of media

    however, the internet renders such a model inefficient in comparison. now, the artist and consumer can interact directly. the internet has replaced the distribution model the riaa's constituent companies are attempting to defend. there defenses are unsuccessful so far, and will continue to be

    the consumer is served, the artist is served. the only person left out in the new internet distribution model is the old guard distribution model. i could say "adapt or die" but that doesn't even apply here. there is only one valid economic choice for the riaa's backers: die

    obviously they aren't dying gracefully, but no one ever did. forgive the dinosaur its death throes i suppose. but the riaa is history. it's simply a matter of time and the inevitable march of progress

    the artist becomes the distributor. seems like a better world to me. the distributor's money in the old distribution model warped true artistic expression i think. so it's progress all around: we get better artists. the unfettered democratic interaction of artist and consumer on the internet will let the cream rise to the top, instead of whomever is backed with the most cash and radio plugs, a la the old model

    go ahead riaa, try to stop progress. good luck to you

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:there's a better argument here by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the consumer is served, the artist is served. the only person left out in the new internet distribution model is the old guard distribution model. i could say "adapt or die" but that doesn't even apply here. there is only one valid economic choice for the riaa's backers: die

      All of what you said is great and all but you're forgetting the one important thing that the RIAA/MPAA has that the general public does not: government on their side.

    2. Re:there's a better argument here by D4rkforce · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately with all the the support the RIAA is getting they might live longer than one would think. And until they finally die they could possibly do a lot of harm to consumers and artists. I wonder how long it will take until more and more artists actually make use of the Internet, because up until now it seems like most of them continue to publish their works the old fashioned way.

    3. Re:there's a better argument here by JonWan · · Score: 1

      But that will only prolong the process. Sooner or later the artists will decide for themself and go with direct distribution, the music companys will bleed slowly to death. I hope it happens sooner than later.

    4. Re:there's a better argument here by cowscows · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if the government, for some reason, threw everything they had at helping the RIAA...it'd only delay the inevitable. People want music, musicians want to provide it. Right now most people are still happy getting their music from the labels, and enough of the artists are willing to work the the labels to fill that demand. But that is slowly changing, and the process will accelerate as it proves itself to be a valid way of doing business.

      The only way the RIAA and/or government could begin to control it is through stricter DRM and stricter laws. And that will just drive people away faster. The government spends billions per year trying to stop the movement of drugs in this country, and they can hardly dent it. What chance do they have against a product that is trivial to mass produce copies of, and which can be transmitted across the globe practically instantly.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    5. Re:there's a better argument here by qbzzt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even in the Internet world, publishers can serve a useful purpose. I gladly pay Baen $6 for an e-book when I can find something to read for free. Why? Because they do the work of selecting good manuscripts, editing them, and even training beginner authors so they'll write better books in the future.

      The RIAA companies could adapt to fulfill that role. However, they will be much smaller and less profitable. In the short term, it's better for them to try and defend their dying business any way they can. In the long term... the managers will probably be working for another company, so they don't think about the long term.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    6. Re:there's a better argument here by zoftie · · Score: 1

      RIAA has nothing to do with recording companies, except that it collects money from them, charging premium for legal&detective services. As such it may well outlive many of the recording companies that authorized its existence. Perhaps the most harmful thing can be done, is do guerilla marketing campaign to associate people who buy CDs with fact that if they rip the CD into MP3 they will face possibility to be jailed by recording company that has sold them the CD via RIAA. Or be faced with fine that will lead to their financial ruin.
      I Canada we pay copy tax on all recordable media, so I can pirate as much as I want, it is within the law. As long as I buy blank CDs money will be paid to artists, sort of. Except I will not be buying into whole media distribution model and gives me a shrink wrapped CD.
      2c.

    7. Re:there's a better argument here by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      The fallacy of your argument is that there is no energetic barrier between artist and consumer. Well, free energy has not only entalpy component (barrier between consumer and artist), but also entropy component (there are billion of other artists besides you, and your consumer will have smaller chances to find you in the world of egalitarian marketing which internet is)

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    8. Re:there's a better argument here by mpe · · Score: 1

      however, the internet renders such a model inefficient in comparison. now, the artist and consumer can interact directly. the internet has replaced the distribution model the riaa's constituent companies are attempting to defend. there defenses are unsuccessful so far, and will continue to be

      You also have the likes of DVD region coding, which attempt to replicate inefficancies of older distribution methods.

    9. Re:there's a better argument here by zenkonami · · Score: 1

      I agree that artists now have a fantastic direct distribution channel to their fans. I think that's what the RIAA really fears most. It's not that artists are going to completely give up working with record companies, publishers, etc...because they do a lot of the grunt work and provide some of the money needed for some projects. That lets the artist do more of what they do best...create music. But now the artist (potentially) has a load more bargaining power with these entities, because though they are a useful way to "outsource" some of the work of the entertainment business, they aren't necessary for the artist any more. He/She can strike out on their own and do all the hard work, or have more options of people/organizations to work with because of this more direct bargaining power.

      The RIAA does not want powerful, entrepeneurial artists. They want disposable ones. They're terrified that the pyramid upon which they've built their business model, which worked for so many years, is now turning upside-down.

      Right now is a great time for the rise of smaller, more nimble companies to rise up and fill some of the roles of the old guard with the understanding that they are in a faster paced, more competitive environment. They will never have the power of RIAA affiliated companies, but they can certainly make money participating in the parts of the process they are good at.

      --

      Do You Experiment?
  8. DRM is a con trick by Marcion · · Score: 1, Insightful

    People who like music, who are passionate about producing their product, do not need DRM. If your song/movie is good and you stand proudly behind it, then people will be happy to pay to come to your concert/film showing.

    The only reason to use DRM is as a con trick, it is basically admitting that you think your own product is crap, so we will keep selling you the Beatles over and over again because we hate all modern music and we will keep selling you the one blockbuster because we think 90% of our films are dog poo.

    People want to buy good music, to think people want to buy into the control mechanism itself is ridiculous, completely back to front:

    In Soviet Russia the Business Models You.

    1. Re:DRM is a con trick by VertigoAce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate the $0.99/DRM-protected song as much as anybody, but I do see another scenario that requires DRM: subscription music services. At $15/month I need to listen to at least 15 new songs each month to break even. As a way of finding new music it works pretty well. You find some music you enjoy and then look at the list of recommended bands and try out their music. It's not much more than satellite radio, but you get to choose what's playing.

      But, you could never have a service like this without DRM. Imagine a movie rental store that burned movies on DVD-Rs instead of handing you the original disk. Then they tell you that instead of returning your movie in a week you must throw it in the trash. I'd imagine just about everyone would keep their collection of DVD-Rs. Furthermore, many people would stop paying full price for a movie and get it for the rental price (or even the have 3 discs at a time plan, as long as you throw one away before picking up another).

      Say my music budget is $15/month. If I buy DRM-free songs at roughly $1/song, it'll take me over 41 years to fill a 30GB music player (roughly 7500 songs). If I download DRM-protected songs using my music subscription I can fill that player every month (or more frequently) and constantly change the music that is on there. As long as music filesharing is easy to do, hardly anybody who owns an iPod is going to spend the thousands of dollars on music to fill it up. DRM makes it a dumber thing to do (since you'd lock yourself in for thousands of dollars), but DRM-free isn't going to make music sales take off much faster.

    2. Re:DRM is a con trick by mpe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But, you could never have a service like this without DRM. Imagine a movie rental store that burned movies on DVD-Rs instead of handing you the original disk.

      Note that your "movie rental store" is actually private lending library. If they hand you the original disk they need to know who you are so that they can be sure of getting it back. If they gave you a copy then they have no reason to care. All they need to do for a viable business model is to ensure that they charge you enough money to at least cover their costs, which could include a royalty payment as well such things as the cost of the disk, the service of burning it, some amount towards the overhead of running the shop, etc.

      Furthermore, many people would stop paying full price for a movie

      This is more an indication of a problem with the business model behind "full price" DVDs that any kind of endorsement for DRM.

    3. Re:DRM is a con trick by cypherz · · Score: 1

      >but I do see another scenario that requires DRM: subscription music services
      (snip)
      >But, you could never have a service like this without DRM.

      I have no idea what you are talking about. eMusic (a subscription music service) is very successful and has no DRM. With my subscription I'm getting DRM-free tracks at about 6 cents per track.

      After re-reading your post *several* times I'm assuming you mean subscription services that offer all-you-can-eat type plans like Napster. The Napster model isn't the only subscription service out there.

      --
      This sig kills fascists.
    4. Re:DRM is a con trick by kaidadragonfly · · Score: 1

      But, you could never have a service like this without DRM. Radio.
    5. Re:DRM is a con trick by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      Well actually the $15 subscription works in another case too... If you can release >15 good new songs a month.

      Considering that they have the whole world to work with (5 Good songs from U.K. 5 U.S. 5 Canada or whatever eh?) isn't unreasonable.

      The model for finding new music would have to be much better, likely this would be accomplished with something like last.fm instead of carrying about individual artists there would only be genre's for example a Grunge Emo (note second level of genre,making it even more specific)listener would be treated to the best new 15 songs that month. This model leaves no room for albumns or even artists because every band would only be as good as their latest single and that would be isolated in one genre (You can't listen to the best music from every genre in a month, well some people can).

      As far as DRM goes this model doesn't make a diffrence. Because there is constantly being new music released you can either try and search for older music on p2p or you can get the new hotness that is specific to your tastes automagically from the labels.

      Cue Valley Girl Voice "OMG that song is sO last month".

      Pro sides of such a system, increadible levels of innovation, labels become increadibly dependant on artists (They need to find literally thousands of high quality songs a month to keep people subscibing instead of the one hit they try to find now).

      Cons: Difficult for people to stop listening, when you do you'll be trying to listen to older music (Which you will still have but won't be as accessible, kind of like it is now). Makes the label's useful as they actually will have to search out new talent and produce it (By which I mean sound room tinkering and pop promotion in a matter of days) acutally I'm not sure if that's a pro or a con. They'd be producing value, but I hate them.

      Wait problem solved! If they actually helped artists and produced value while trying to share music I wouldn't hate them!

  9. Yes it can by bemoosed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Fundamentally, DRM cannot create a successful new business model." Sure it can. Just not in a relatively free market. It can be quite successful given the purchase (investment?) in the right legislation, followed by litigation and/or force.

    Its success will be predicated on how much pain/reward the model brings to the customers when accepted versus the collective pain/reward of civil disobedience when it meets force.
    1. Re:Yes it can by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

      You're right but I think that "business model" is not the correct term at that point.

      You can make money by robbing banks and bribing all the judges and cops, but that's more of a battle plan than a business model.

      (Yes, you may infer from this that I think the MAFIAA are essentially thugs)

      --
      My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    2. Re:Yes it can by epee1221 · · Score: 1

      You can also make extra money by taking rights away and then selling them back.

      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
    3. Re:Yes it can by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      "Fundamentally, DRM cannot create a successful new business model."

      Sure it can. Just not in a relatively free market. It can be quite successful given the purchase (investment?) in the right legislation, followed by litigation and/or force.
      What does DRM have to do with that? Given the purchase of the right legislation, any business model can be made successful no matter how ill-conceived -- e.g. look at the US paying farmers NOT to farm their land.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:Yes it can by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, this is a very environmentally sound business plan, being carbon-neutral.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  10. We wanted everything FREE.. well. by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    .. that is what we are getting now.. Zecco.com - Free stock trading Joost - Free video content YouTube - Free video content etc etc We cried for things to be free, well now it is happening things are becoming FREE, due to a new business model, ADVERTISEMENT SUPPORTED business model. Now that is not enough we want our cake and eat it, we dont want ads now. So can you suggest a new business model that we wont cry about?

    --
    http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    1. Re:We wanted everything FREE.. well. by Imaria · · Score: 1

      And look how YouTube has grown; people will always complain, but at least with the no-cost open models, they are still using the service.

    2. Re:We wanted everything FREE.. well. by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 1

      And look how Viacom is telling them to take down their unlicensed content.

      --
      http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
    3. Re:We wanted everything FREE.. well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We cried for things to be free, well now it is happening things are becoming FREE, due to a new business model, ADVERTISEMENT SUPPORTED business model. Now that is not enough we want our cake and eat it, we dont want ads now. So can you suggest a new business model that we wont cry about?
      Is that right? Free stuff supported by ads is not a new business model. Long before the Internet was invented, radio and television give you free content supported by ads. Nobody cries about that. Can a paid model compete with free stuff? Certainly. Cable television requires you to pay them considerable amount of money and the companies can compete with free contents. What is new is that users can have more choices and more control over when they want to use the contents instead of fixed, broadcast company specified prime time.

      Many people are okay with ads, as long as they are not intrusive, destructive, annoying and does not interfere with the values the service providers offer. Ad supported business model has been around for a long time and it's time Internet companies learn how to use it properly. Just because it's on the Internet, it does not mean it's okay to pop 5 ad windows up which each pops 3 more up when closed. Maybe what we should consider is not a new business model, but an evolved one adapted for the new medium.
    4. Re:We wanted everything FREE.. well. by epee1221 · · Score: 1

      Now that is not enough we want our cake and eat it, we dont want ads now.
      The only outcry I've seen against ads is when they aren't attached to an otherwise free service, such as spam (what service do we get in exchange for putting up with these?) or the in-game ads in Battlefield 2142 (if it's user-paid why do we have to put up with ads?). This isn't about having the cake and eating it too -- it's about being able to do just one of those.
      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
    5. Re:We wanted everything FREE.. well. by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 1

      Basically you want to get benifit from ad supported products, such as 1) cheaper prices and or 2) money back for viewing or acting on ads. Right? I doubt that will happen for ingame adverts unless they give the games free and take their revenue from ad's, I doubt this will happen from companies such as Electronic Arts as they are greedy money grabbing companies and want it all for themselves. Just look at the franchises episodic model of games nowdays. They want their cake and eat it and they will get it too, unless you stop giving them money.

      --
      http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
  11. music is not a red pepper by maynard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The fallacy of this argument is that the author equates rearranging scarce physical resources (ideas about things) to create added value (economic growth) with ephemeral nonphysical ideas like music, writing, film, etc. If one follows the logic of this, extracting "added value" of media content would be in controlling its creation and then distribution. Which is exactly what DRM attempts to do.

    Music is not a red pepper. Argument by analogy often leads to ridiculous conclusions, as has happened here. The problem with DRM is not in mechanistic enforcement of copyright law, but that copyright law is broken. It has ceased to function as an economic promoter of new ideas and technology, and is instead now a mechanism of monopoly for a corporate cartel. Ending DRM won't fix that problem.

    1. Re:music is not a red pepper by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      The fallacy of this argument is that the author equates rearranging scarce physical resources (ideas about things) to create added value (economic growth)
      Contrary to what you said, scarce physical resources != ideas about things.

      FTFA: Note that it's the non-scarce products, the recipes and the ideas, that helps expand the value of the limited resources, the ingredients.

      I'd suggest that the flaw is in his assumption that "Any new business model must be based around increasing the overall pie."


      /where's BadAnalogyGuy when you need him?

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:music is not a red pepper by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      Music is not a red pepper.

      These guys beg to differ.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    3. Re:music is not a red pepper by maynard · · Score: 1

      Contrary to what you said, scarce physical resources != ideas about things.

      Actually, within the author's argument, yes it does. The 'rearrangement of scarce physical resources' is just another way of saying 'recipe' within this analogy. That is, the value add is not in the ingredients, but in how those ingredients are arranged (mixed and cooked).

      He says that it's the ideas themselves which add value to products, not the implementation nor the work involved in bringing those ideas to fruition. He essentially confuses the function of chef - a service and skill set - with the recipe itself. It is the recipe that 'increases the pie overall.' And then he follows this logic through by saying that DRM is opposed to the concept of 'increasing the overall pie' because it assumes a zero sum value add.

      I agree with you that this is where the argument by analogy gets so convoluted that it loses all meaning. The ingredients, such as red peppers and beef to be placed in a stew, are not the value add - but then, neither is the stew. It is the chef (and his/her expertise) who adds that value. In this case, one has a thing to sell - the stew - which can be used but once.

      And here we have the (obvious) difference between physical things and ephemeral IP, one can be copied, used, and reused indefinitely. The other cannot. Yet copyright law exists to create an artificial duplication boundary for such ephemeral products, ostensibly so that creators will be able to extract economic value from their work as an incentive to create more. DRM, in this model, exists not to limit the 'size of the overall pie' as much as a mechanism to enforce 'economic value extraction' for content creators.

      Thus, the problem is not DRM - that is a symptom. The problem is a series of modern changes to copyright law that now do not function to drive value creation, but instead were enacted as political payback to a corporate media cartels. The purpose of copyright law, as defined by our founders (US), has been thwarted over the last several decades.

      Subverting DRM will not fix that problem, it will simply make criminals of those who break the law. Best to repeal the bad law.

    4. Re:music is not a red pepper by mpe · · Score: 1

      And here we have the (obvious) difference between physical things and ephemeral IP, one can be copied, used, and reused indefinitely. The other cannot. Yet copyright law exists to create an artificial duplication boundary for such ephemeral products, ostensibly so that creators will be able to extract economic value from their work as an incentive to create more.

      Copyright is thus intended as a means rather than an end in itself. There may thus be an optimal level of copyright to do this. It's even possible that an excess is worst than none at all. e.g. a dead person cannot possibly create any more of anything yet his or her grand children might prevent people creating derived works which are more accessable to people now.

      Thus, the problem is not DRM - that is a symptom. The problem is a series of modern changes to copyright law that now do not function to drive value creation, but instead were enacted as political payback to a corporate media cartels.

      Most obviously extending copyright on already existing works...

    5. Re:music is not a red pepper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has ceased to function as an economic promoter of new ideas and technology, and is instead now a mechanism of monopoly for a corporate cartel.

      Seems to me that this is because most new art and science is created within corporations. That said, the same IP law that protects corporate assignees protects individuals as well.

  12. The customer is always wrong! by Erris · · Score: 1

    Surely there's a successful business model hiding in logic like that?

    --
    DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
    1. Re:The customer is always wrong! by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      The customer is always wrong is the clarion call of management consultants the world over.

      --
      Deleted
  13. My elucidating response: by Cinquero · · Score: 0, Offtopic



    TROLLS!

    1. Re:My elucidating response: by Cinquero · · Score: 1

      Off-Topic????

      The quality of slashdot's content is off-topic at best, but usually just misleading nonsense:

      the amount of money available in the market is fixed. New innovations make old ones worthless. You have to invent new stuff in order to be competitive -- otherwise the fixed amount of money will be used to buy other ones' products instead of yours. Innovations do not multiply your stuff. They just keep you on top. Damn fucking bullshit. But that's slashdot as usual.

  14. Doomed to repeat the past by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    History is a collection of people not learning from history. Maybe this is more pervasive in the business world. Consumers don't like crippled versions of products. We bought it - it's our stuff. (kiss the rings biatch!!)

    Remember DIVX format movies? Companies sometimes have brutally painful lessons that the customer is, in fact, still the customer.

    Why is it that I can buy TVs, computers, audio equipment at substantially lower prices than 5 years ago with better features? Funny how that hasn't changed the music industry. It's like I'm getting ripped off......

  15. A suggestion by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

    Not a business model, though.

    Let creative people do what they do, share it with each other (and the world at large) under whatever terms they can get other people to agree to. There is no State-backed copyright.

    You may say "egad! under such circumstances you'll just get 'amateur' 'independent' movies, etc. No one would make something expensive like *Titanic*! Or rather, they probably wouldn't. Or rather, maybe they wouldn't."

    I answer that the State doesn't really have that much interest in *Titanic* being created.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:A suggestion by HighBit · · Score: 1

      Yes it does.. releasing movies that people pay to watch is a successful business model that the state earns tax money from

    2. Re:A suggestion by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      This line of thinking is pretty dangerous because it implies that the problem can be "fixed" with a solution that might work for music, probably won't work for things like big-budget movies and certainly won't work for things that are incredibly expensive to produce and take huge full-time effort over many years, like search engines or new cancer drugs.

      It is, in effect, the lazy mans solution. It isn't a generic solution yet we are faced with a generic problem. It's like saying we don't need copyright because musicians can just get paid beer money for playing live. Works for (some) musicians, doesn't work for directors.

      And for what it's worth, I quite enjoyed Titanic. I quite enjoy a lot of very expensive movies and it annoys me that some people want an "amateur rules!" system which would preclude professional productions.

    3. Re:A suggestion by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

      "it annoys me that some people want an "amateur rules!" system which would preclude professional productions."

      No offense, but this is a strawman. Go to jamendo.com, or another site where artists create things and do not reserve all rights to them. There is plenty of 'professional production' there. 90% of the population would be unable to hear any difference in musicianship/professionalism between what is there and what is on the radio -- if any difference exists.

      It is true that certain kinds of artists are favored by the current copyright regime. But it is not enough to say "Group X would no longer be favored, and group Y would instead". To justify a government-granted monopoly that applies to *all people, one must demonstrate the public/State interest in group X being favored.

      --
      My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    4. Re:A suggestion by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      You're again lacking genericity. I can quite believe that amateurs can make very high quality music, I used to be an amateur musician myself (though I sucked at it) - but all the tools are there and it's cheap. Amateur music is something I hear pretty often. Amateur movies, not so much. With software you can get "amateur" (using the word to mean non-fulltime) products that are really quite good, like the Gimp or the Linux kernel, but it only works in a few cases - there has never been any open source competition to the 3D FPS games industry for instance. When people argue for what is effectively the downfall of copyright, they tend to ignore or forget about things outside of music. That's what annoys me.

    5. Re:A suggestion by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

      "You're again lacking genericity"

      It is not necessary that -- when I propose copyright reform or repeal -- I figure out a way to make sure the same number of blockbusters movies and 3D FPS games will get made. It is actually supposed to be incumbent upon those who would restrict liberty (via copyright) to demonstrate the state's interest in those blockbusters or games.

      By default, I think we should be free to share whatever works of culture we encounter. In the interest of funding some big-budget, expensive, impressive productions ('cause I like 'em too), I could understand a copyright term of 10-20 years. Matter of fact, I think a copyright term of 20 years would result in almost the same cultural landscape we've got now, since works generally turn a profit in their first decade or not at all. But that's beside the point.

      If you think copyright should be as they are because otherwise the "content industry" will change, then that's just plain old protectionism.

      --
      My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  16. No, iTMS isn't successful really, hear me out. by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While Mr. Jobs has made some money with it, and it does seem to lead the pack of legal downloading systems, it is not successful in the way that McDonalds is. It is not successful in the way that Kleenex is. It is not successful in a ubiquitous way. There are four music fans in my house. One of them has an iPod (teenager - coolness is status for her), and there are zero iTMS accounts.

    There is a simply reason why; DRM and cost. When I buy music, I don't want to pay for it again, ever. Yes, I converted all my old vinyl to CD. No matter how nice or good iTMS is, I will not lock myself or my family into a single choice of music players, no matter how cool they might be.

    We continue to have the choice of sources for music downloads, and always will. We jointly spend quite a bit on music, but iTMS isn't getting any of that revenue. So while it is successful in the eyes of Mr Jobs and Mr Gates, its not successful in everyone's eyes, especially those of the RIAA as they aren't getting much money at all.

    To be successful like McDonalds, everyone in the world needs to know firsthand how your burgers taste. This is not true of iTMS.

    1. Re:No, iTMS isn't successful really, hear me out. by Americano · · Score: 1

      How is this even remotely interesting? Your argument is that to be "truly" a successful business model, everybody must use the product / service? That's a curious definition of a business model, because I can point to at least half a dozen people I know who wouldn't eat at McDonald's if you paid them, and who prefer other brands of tissues than Kleenex. Your definition of ubiquity as success is ridiculous, because it's impossible.

      Is there room in the market for iTMS to grow? Absolutely. Could they grow bigger/faster without DRM? Perhaps... Steve Jobs seems to think so, at least. But to look at a profitable, popular service, and dismiss it as "unsuccessful" using this reasoning is fallacious, because not even McDonald's meets your definition of "successful like McDonald's".

  17. government is slow and stupid by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    but yes, even government eventually comes around to common sense. i didn't say how long it would take, but it will happen. simple common sense is an acid which dissolves all barriers

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  18. They should just give up by mc6809e · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Sometimes the world changes in such a way that you just have to give up and move on. We have technology in place
    and available that allows nearly anyone anywhere anytime to freely copy music and videos and people not going to let
    DRM or any moral objections or law stop them from doing it.

    And maybe that's justice in a way. The industry doesn't seem to have any objection to making money from music and movies that praise some of the very behaviors responsible for their own decline. They produce songs like "Smack My Bitch Up" and "Been Caught Stealing" and "Murder Rap" then wonder why they can't get people to "do the right thing" and pay them for their product. They're fucking hypocrites. They're getting what they deserve.

    1. Re:They should just give up by westlake · · Score: 1
      They're fucking hypocrites. They're getting what they deserve.

      Hypocrisy isn't confined to the industry. The Geek has a full share of it as well.

      It isn't true that nearly "everyone" copies. The entry requirement is, after all, typically, a mid-line computer and a broadband connection, perhaps 40% of American households.

      I suspect that the file-sharing demographic can be defined much more narrowly.

      ---which implies that the majors have the option of shifting production to better serve their paying customers. The family with an investment in home theater video and sound, for example.

      The audience that made J.K. Rowling richer than the Queen of England.

  19. Drivel by kamapuaa · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Slashdot is cherry-picking articles purely for agreeing with its editorial views, rather than any instrinsic merit. This article is complete nonsense.

    Successful new business models are about creating those non-scarce goods and helping them increase value. Any new business model must be based around increasing the overall pie

    But the music industry is making a product - the music! And anybody who think modern popular music as represented by the RIAA is anything but the product of an industry is kidding themselves. The Britney Spears of the world didn't get big due to their solitary musical genius, it was marketers and promoters and sound guys and hundreds of other people working behind the scenes.

    The music industry is just working it's darnedest to inhibit unlimited copying. A number of industries do this. Publishing companies have sued Google to not put their books online. I can't buy Gucci knock-offs, attach a knock-off Gucci label, and then re-sell them from my expensive boutique store, unless I want to hear from Gucci lawyers. I can't create a site which scrapes msnbc.com content but replaces all the ads with my own. I can't publish a photography book, using images I ripped off from flickr.

    And even if DRM is a flawed business model, is Slashdot the place where we review the sustainability of various business models? This cheerleading got tiresome a long time ago. Review how poorly-implemented DRM is a security hole, or DRM lowers the real value of buying a CD, but this BS doesn't deserve to be here.

    --
    Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    1. Re:Drivel by sconeu · · Score: 1

      The Britney Spears of the world didn't get big due to their solitary musical genius, it was marketers and promoters and sound guys and hundreds of other people working behind the scenes.

      And this supports the argument that the labels are good? I'd argue that what we need is LESS prepackaged canned crap like Ms. Spears.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Drivel by mrjb · · Score: 1

      The Britney Spears of the world didn't get big due to their solitary musical genius

      As a musician, may I ask *what* musical genius? The music industry are the MacDonalds of music, pretending junk music is the only music there is. People are growing tired and suspicious of junk music, and now want to preview music before paying for it, from the convenience of their homes.

      If a supermarket can have people sample free cubes of cheese and make a profit out of it, why can't the music industry? Because they're always selling the same tasteless plastic factory-crap.

      As for Gucci, it's nothing more but the same mass-marketing concept for the would-be wealthy. Open your eyes. Decide on your *own* taste rather than always following around others.

      this BS doesn't deserve to be here. Assuming you mean Britney Spears, I couldn't agree more. The future isn't in mass marketed junk music - it's in quality. THAT I'll gladly pay for.

      --
      Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
    3. Re:Drivel by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      The music industry are the MacDonalds of music, pretending junk music is the only music there is.

            Lol. Britney Spears herself is proof that this "junk music" causes obesity...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:Drivel by oyenstikker · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is cherry-picking articles purely for agreeing with its editorial views, rather than any instrinsic merit.

      Nope. Slashdot is picking articles that will generate the most page views, which will generate the most advertising revenue. Welcome to a capitalistic world.

      --
      The masses are the crack whores of religion.
  20. Reality trumps idology masquerading as analysis by mumblestheclown · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, we have some article here purporting to claim that it is impossible to build a business based on DRM.

    It only takes one thing to counter an impossibility. I know of somebody who makes about 4 million dollars a year on what is effectivley shareware, a type of DRM. His software is hackable and crackable, but basically at the end of the day DRM, that is, the set of restrictions he puts on his items so that he can sell them digitally, is what makes it work. Furthermore, his business has obsoleted several brick-and-mortar type businesses who were doing about the same thing.

    It's time slashdot stops linking to these highly ideological opinion pieces attempting to pass themsleves off as "analysis." It's particularly easy to debunk them when they claim that something is impossible, however.

    1. Re:Reality trumps idology masquerading as analysis by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Shareware is not a type of DRM. DRM has a more specific meaning than just a set of restrictions on a digital item. DRM is about selling information while keeping it hidden from the purchaser.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  21. Lack of DRM responsible for iTunes success by twitter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... the argument is that iTunes has succeeded in spite of DRM, not because of DRM.

    Restrictions kill business and it's a lack of those restrictions which make iPod what it is. Restrictions, other than those imposed by M$, had nothing to do with the success of iTunes. Good hardware design, compatibility with existing CD collections and a lot of bad decisions from M$ are what made iPod and iPod made iTunes. Restrictions can and will kill iTunes and iPod if Apple is not careful.

    Without iPod, no one would ever have bought anything from iTunes and restrictions have hurt it. People load their iPods with CDs, not restricted tracks from the iTunes music store. iPod is responsible for the success of iTunes, but that is tiny trickle of what it could be without restrictions. People took more time and trouble to purchase the same thing on CDs. If they really could have exactly the same thing from iTunes as they get from CDs, they would have bought much more.

    Both iPod and iTunes would have been a flop like WMP and "Plays for Sure" if Apple had put restrictions on music that originally had none. People got angry when they learned that WMP made it impossible for them to transfer their CD based music collections, had to rip everything again if Windoze flaked out, and when WMP itself was not stable due to all the paranoid checks and M$ using it as a conduit for advertising. All of the M$ imposed restrictions made media on M$ decidedly second rate. M$'s suppression of the ogg format probably spared both M$ and Apple of early Linux competition, but that did not make WMP any better. Apple won because they had the easiest to use and least restrictive package.

    Competition will continue to threaten non free music. iTunes sales will collapse as people continue to discover legal and restrictionless music online. If Apple makes it difficult for people to buy and load restrictionless music though iTunes, iPod will die. iPod also faces a significant threat as makers of music players embrace ogg and free software. M$ let those makers down by not delivering on sales, stabbed them in the back by eliminating the whole "Plays for Sure" DRM and all of them are now under the mp3 patent litigation cloud. Music player makers who deliver a quality product that works with all file formats and does what the user wants can and will supplant iPod.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Lack of DRM responsible for iTunes success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Restrictions, other than those imposed by M$, had nothing to do with the success of iTunes.
       
      You care to clarify this fanboi? If DRM is MS it's bad but for Apple it's A-OK? What a fucking fagboi.

  22. reality: restrcitons suck and people hate them. by twitter · · Score: 1

    The legitimate download industry has a problem. Their products can't compete with the freely available infringing versions of the same content.

    They can't compete with CDs either. Study after study shows that portable music player owners buy more CDs than other people do, but avoid restricted music. It's not the price, it's the overall convenience and lack of trust that people have for restrictions that keep restricted music sales down in the dirt.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  23. Google to the rescue? by TheSkyIsPurple · · Score: 1

    the consumer is served, the artist is served. the only person left out in the new internet distribution model is the old guard distribution model. i could say "adapt or die" but that doesn't even apply here. there is only one valid economic choice for the riaa's backers: die

    Cool. I want to buy some Jazz music. Let me just type that into Google. Oh goodie, only 97,100,000 pages to browse through.
    Yes, fans can put their own pages together, but that's amounting to the same thing, and corporations will usually have a bit more credibility to the masses. I mean, it's their job to aggregate music, right? It can't be crap.

    Seriously, they can serve a purpose in the new world order, but they need to resize and adapt.

  24. The Usual Crap by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry, but economic theory says that a succesful business model depends on both the consumer and producer benefiting from the model. Producers in the business of content production (music, movies, software, pharmacueticals etc.) will eventually stop if they don't get some sort of benefit from this. DRM provides new ways of assuring getting this benefit and thus enables new business models.

    I'm not saying the content production will stop if producers don't get rewarded - people will still write, take pictures and make music for fun. But the business of producing it will stop.

  25. weapons create new business models by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "DRM will create new business models"

    yeah, just like "weapons create new business models"

    both business models are preferred by the mafia!

  26. Society & Performance by BoRegardless · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The basics of Performance & Availability & Desirability of artistic expression have changed over time, and are changing again.

    Performances in times past were always done live. 20th Century became more and more recorded and then finally more digitized and transportable. Major Market Content in the late 20th Century became more centralized in handfuls of mega distributor/publishers. 21st Century with the Internet is putting mega-distribution at a breaking point, partially because of the breadth & depth of content, most of which is not served by the mega-distributors:

    1. Not every consumer wants "new" content: Casablanca is as viewable to day as the 1940s, and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue is still as beautiful today.

    2. Not every consumer, or even young consumer thinks Britney Spears is actually a listenable likable singer.

    3. Listening is useful while concentrating on other tasks, and "MTV" type performances may not mean much as audio.

    4. Consumers of specific market segments other than current "pop" are not likely to be served well by the mega distributors, as in percussion, brass bands, folk songs, & dozens of others, but the Internet makes those sources readily searchable and AVAILABLE.

    DRM is destined to be of minimal use or "success", because consumers do not see value in it for typical performances and a lot of non-mega performers do not see it giving their distribution method and success of their careers a boost.

    I have too much complexity in my life as it is, to have to bother with whether my "music DRM" is now not going to let me put my music on my 4th mac or my 5th iPod.

    I simply will not allow any more distractions and complexity to interfere with enjoying life.

    How Time/Warner, Paramount, EFI, BMG, Sony or any other mega handles DRM will not affect me, as I simply will not buy their content. They have lost me forever with DRM. Could they get me back? If I buy a copy of a performance that I can use and keep 'forever', and I accept the price, then yes.

    Consumers will ultimately determine which performance supplier/distributors win, and which will not. Lets see, there was Sony RootKits, MS PlayForUnsure, & Apple iTunes. Looks like at the moment, the consumer has voted for minimal hassle. But then even those suppliers pale by comparison to CD/DVD sales which have no DRM, so the super majority of consumers have elected to buy and continue to buy with no DRM at all.

    1. Re:Society & Performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DVD does have DRM. It's been broken well enough to be all but irrelevant, as even a novice user can copy DVDs with free, readily available, and fairly easy to use software. However you still can't copy a DVD without using software that's illegal at least in the US.

  27. Which terrorists? by FooMoeDee · · Score: 1

    Do you want your children to listen to the same music as terrorists 50s bubblegum pop was big in Japan in the 80s and into the 90s.
    --
    Foo'-Mo'-D says,"Wutup foo?"
  28. for the simpleton. by twitter · · Score: 1

    A rude AC asks:

    "Restrictions, other than those imposed by M$, had nothing to do with the success of iTunes. "
    You care to clarify this fanboi? If DRM is MS it's bad but for Apple it's A-OK? What a fucking fagboi.

    and a more direct answer would not hurt.

    M$'s greed and incompetence were key factors in the success of iPod. M$ restrictions were and still are much worse so all of their services have failed. Between that and their attack on ogg format, iPod was the path of least resistance.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  29. strawman argument by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    DRM is DRM(boo!) not because we are "afraid" that companies that use DRM would outcompete the companies that don't. DRM is DRM(evil as evil gets) because it is done by monopolistic organization that would exclude anyone employing some people other than grandpa and grandma from non-using DRM.

    Whether it is the situation or not, is another question, but nobody seriously thinks that DRM is survivable.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  30. busted bubbles by Independent+Voter · · Score: 1

    I hate to burst people's bubbles...except when the bubble is as patently stupid as thinking that someone can get something for nothing. Nothing, not even love, is totally free. Love, real love, requires effort on the part of the people in love to make it work. Real love is one of the best bargains on the planet, but it still requires effort, so it isn't free. It may not costs money, at least not in a direct sense, but it costs effort.

    The basic argument in the TechDirt article is that, since other, "free", non-DRM music exists, then no business model involving DRM can add value to society ("economic value"), which, in the long term, is necessary for a successful business model. While adding some kind of value is necessary for the long term success of a business model, to say that such a model cannot utilize DRM is patently false. Aside from some currently existing successful business models that ARE using DRM (iTunes, etc.), the argument rests on a basic misunderstanding of what economic value means in the context of DRM.

    The cost of distributing digital content, including music, has dropped to truly tiny amounts. The actual cost of delivering a digital version of a song is very small, probably in the vicinity of a few cents per song (don't quote me on that figure). At this point, most of the cost is not the delivery of the song itself, but the time cost to the listeners to find music that matches their tastes. Ironically, this has always been the case.

    There has always been "free" music. In the distant past, most music that people listened to was "free", in the sense that they weren't charged for it. People sang and played instruments in their homes for friends and family and no one paid a dime for these performances. The quality was highly variable, depending on who the musicians and singers were, but that's "free" for you.

    The music labels aren't using DRM very well, in my opinion, and, given their track record of clubbing people to death for stealing something that has a marginal cost of a few cents, they aren't likely to be the ones to figure out how to include DRM in a successful business model.

    The primary problems with reasoning of the author of the TechDirt article and the people that bought into its logic, are.

    1) They assume that, since the *marginal* cost of delivering a song to a listener over the Internet is very small, the value of that product is very small. I think someone took a microeconomics course and didn't quite "get it" as it applies to the real world. Some microeconomic theory suggests that, in a truly competitive market, with "perfect information" (an economic term that means everyone knows all pertinent information about a product and its viable alternatives), marginal price will approach the marginal cost. The author and his fans seem to interpret this as meaning that the value of that song is therefore so close to zero (free) that the difference is negligible.

    Actually, value is what someone would be willing to pay for something. Usually, a consumer pays less than the absolute maximum they would be willing to pay for something, so that, when they do buy something they come out "ahead", in the sense that their overall welfare (what economists call "utility") is increased, since they traded something (some amount of money) for something they valued more than that money and the other things they might buy with that money. If they weren't getting something better, they probably wouldn't make the trade, unless they were an addict or somesuch. Similarly, companies cannot for long sell something for less than what it costs them to produce it, unless selling it enables them to make money some other way, such as what Google does with its advertising.

    2) The second basic problem with the logic of the TechDirt article is that it assumes that the alternative to any business model that uses DRM is "free". It's not. Nothing is free (see above). If a business model can use DRM to capture enough revenue to create

    1. Re:busted bubbles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, there would be no incentive at that magical price-point.

      This is Econ 101, and you have done a great job in articulating it. But this reasoned (and reasonable) approach you've thought through is what's missing from the **AA approach to doing business. They insist on cartel pricing, a price-point well above the supply/demand equilibrium point as you illustrated, and they will fail as a result.

      The poorly-reasoned (and UNreasonable) approach that **AA is taking is hurting them both short and long term. Not only are they pricing themselves out of the market, they are alienating an increasingly large slice of the consumer pie. Remember, "goodwill" is a legitimate accounting entry, and they are squandering it.

      But unreasonable people do unreasonable things, by definition. There will be some short term pain to us, the consumers, in the short run due to the hassle of DRM dying its inevitable death and a new distribution model(s) taking hold, and much more pain, both short and long term, to the industry as a whole as it reorganizes.

      No surprises here, but it's a great object lesson to those who take an interest in such things.

      Mike

    2. Re:busted bubbles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In your example, how does the DRM add value? What IS clearly adding value is the ability to match consumers with a product they want to buy. Any company that did this could charge for the service regardless of if they used DRM or not. It appears that the claim is that DRM is necessary for profitability because it allows enforcing of a trial period. However there would be other ways to do this. For example, have a Flash applet that plays the song. Sure, it would be possible to grab a copy of the song from this -- just as there would be ways to grab a copy from the DRM'd version.

      Your last line is so close to recognizing the reason why DRM will fail. If the price gets low enough that paying for a legal copy is a better economic decision than breaking the DRM, then the entire need for DRM goes away. For the common person, "breaking DRM" isn't really breaking it. It is finding an non-DRM'd copy to download (illegally).

  31. The usual FUD by argent · · Score: 3, Insightful

    DRM provides new ways of assuring getting this benefit and thus enables new business models.

    DRM doesn't do any such thing. It doesn't assure anything.

    1. It makes it more expensive to distribute product, reduces the profits per sale at a given price, and ensures that the products that don't take heroic measures to prevent copying will be cheaper and higher quality.

    2. It doesn't prevent online distribution of unauthorised copies.

    That's why online music distribution hasn't taken off. NOT because people are ripping music off rather than buying it, but because the online version is worth so much less to the consumer than the DRM-free CD version... even if the CD version is more of a hassle to buy... and putting DRM restrictions on the online version hasn't kept people from ripping it anyway.

    3. Not having DRM doesn't prevent producers from being rewarded.

    Since DRM doesn't actually do much to prevent unauthorised copies, and providers are still getting rewarded, it seems like DRM isn't what's making it possible for producers to get rewarded after all. In fact, lots of producers are putting their music online in DRM-free formats... if I recall correctly eMusic has been in business longer than iTunes, and lots of people... including some big names... are still publishing music through them. For eBooks, Fictionwise and Baen Books don't seem to be in any trouble.

    The new business models are viable without DRM, as proven by the fact that they exist without DRM, therefore DRM isn't what's needed to enable them.

    1. Re:The usual FUD by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      1. It makes it more expensive to distribute product, reduces the profits per sale at a given price, and ensures that the products that don't take heroic measures to prevent copying will be cheaper and higher quality.

      If you consider that most content publishers do not distribute electronically because of ineffective or unavailable DRM, and still rely on physical media this is obviously false.

      2. It doesn't prevent online distribution of unauthorised copies.

      That's why online music distribution hasn't taken off. NOT because people are ripping music rather than buying it, but because the online version is worth so much less to the consumer than the DRM-free CD version.


      I think that point is very debatable. I buy CDs for several reasons, not just the lack of DRM. I like having 44k x 16 bit fidelity rather than lossy compressed junk. I like having a physically robust copy rather than data on relatively unreliable media. The CD catalog is vastly larger than the licensed online catalog. I also buy DVDs that do come with DRM. CDs are currently more versatile than downloadable media in more than one respect.

      3. Not having DRM doesn't prevent producers from being rewarded.

      Since DRM doesn't actually do much to prevent unauthorised copies, and providers are still getting rewarded, it seems like DRM isn't what's making it possible for producers to get rewarded after all


      Your argument is a study in self-contradiction - people don't buy DRM protected media because it is not as valuable (they can't copy it) yet at the same time DRM doesn't prevent copying at all. The truth is that while DRM does not prevent all copying, it does hinder copying significantly. Many people do not want to take the trouble to track down the software needed to defeat a particular scheme or go online and expose themselves to the dark side of the internet. In some cases the volume of sales of a product is too low to attract enough interest in cracking the scheme - like in the case of SACDs.

      As far as eMusic, exactly what is their market share compared to iTunes? Isn't iTunes itself a perfect counter-example to the thesis that DRM cannot enable succesful new business models?

    2. Re:The usual FUD by argent · · Score: 1

      If you consider that most content publishers do not distribute electronically because of ineffective or unavailable DRM

      That doesn't mean the DRM is required, it means that they believe the DRM is required. That doesn't mean anything except that the usual FUD is working.

      I think that point is very debatable. I buy CDs for several reasons [...]

      None of which come down to "you are ripping music rather than buying it", they come down to "the online version is less value for money". You're agreeing with my point: the DRM-burdened product costs more for what you get. For eBooks the distinction is even more clear, because Fictionwise sells DRM-burdened and open eBook formats, and the DRM-burdened ones cost many times as much... and there are DRM-burdened and free versions of the same books from Fictionwise and Baen, and again the DRM-burdened versions cost more.

      What DRM does, mostly, is increase the cost of the product, and reduce its value. Without preventing the product from getting into the "pirate domain".

      people don't buy DRM protected media because it is not as valuable (they can't copy it) yet at the same time DRM doesn't prevent copying at all

      That's not what I wrote. DRM-protected media is less valuable because it costs more than similar unprotected products and less convenient to use, not because it is impossible to copy, but because copying imposes an additional inconvenience. DRM-protected media doesn't stop piracy because unless it completely prevents unauthorized copying (and the analog hole isn't going away, all it takes is one person willing to take the effort to make a decent quality copy and the game is over.

      Look, DRM-protected music costs almost as much as physical CDs, and DRM-protected eBooks cost almost as much as hardcovers. DRM-free music costs 1/4 to 1/3 the price of DRM-protected music, and DRM-free ebooks cost less than paperbacks. EVEN WHEN the same music is available in both formats (from iTunes and eMusic). EVEN WHEN the same books are available in both formats (from Fictionwise and Baen Books).

      Isn't iTunes itself a perfect counter-example to the thesis that DRM cannot enable succesful new business models?

      Since iTunes is subsidised by the iPod and only recently stopped operating at a loss... while eMusic is making it without that subsidy... I would say that eMusic is the successful new business model. On the other side, the DRM-driven dedicated eBook-reader business has been trying to take off and failing for years, with Audiobooks tagging along on the edge of the music business the only place that's had any kind of traction... and yet Fictionwises' non-DRM side and Baen Books are thriving.

      The idea of DRM is standing in the way of successful business models. The companies that have seen this are the ones that are thriving, even with the crumbs left by the DRM-obsessed publishers.

    3. Re:The usual FUD by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      That doesn't mean the DRM is required, it means that they believe the DRM is required. That doesn't mean anything except that the usual FUD is working.

      It doesn't matter if it is FUD or not. If you want to realize a business model based on using this content you better have DRM. Otherwise it is a non-starter from viewpoint of the content owner, and that is the reality of the situation.

      None of which come down to "you are ripping music rather than buying it", they come down to "the online version is less value for money". You're agreeing with my point: the DRM-burdened product costs more for what you get.

      The online DRM product is of less value to me, but not primarily because it is DRM encumbered but because of other features I want. The DRM characteristic not the controlling factor so I really don't see anything relevant here. I do not buy online music, protected or not. I don't download ripped music either. I do buy SACDs which are currently uncopyable without conversion to analog or hardware hacking of the player.

      Since iTunes is subsidised by the iPod and only recently stopped operating at a loss...

      iTunes and iPod are part and parcel of the same (new) DRM-enabled (successful) business model. It is ridiculous to try to consider the finances of one as being
      independent of the other. The premise that such a business model is impossible is disproven by a very obvious counter example. Q.E.D.

      As far as eMusic, I have no idea if it is succesful or not, and you do not either. Since it is a privately held company the finances are not available. Not only that, it is not important to the argument - that new DRM enabled business models can be sucessful. My suspicion is that since it has not been the subject of an IPO eMusic isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

      Even more telling are the comments you have made about DRM protected content selling for higher prices than non-protected content. Price is set based on what the customer is willing to pay. If customers considered the DRM protected products to be actually less valuable the prices would be lower, not higher. In reality it appears that other characteristics of the content are what is determining the price people are willing to pay and what they want to buy, so there is no particular reason to believe DRM per se is a deal-breaker for end users.

    4. Re:The usual FUD by argent · · Score: 1
      If you want to realize a business model based on using this content you better have DRM.

      The hidden assumption here is that there's specific content that has to be part of the new business model, or the new business model can't happen.

      If some content owner doesn't want to be part of the new business model, because they believe that DRM is necessary for the business model to work, then what that means is that the existence of DRM is preventing the new business model from taking off as effectively as it could. Not that it's not happening, mind you, just that the established content owners aren't going to be a part of it for a while. What this does is allow other content owners to take advantage of the new business model before the established content owners realise they're missing out on it.

      The online DRM product is of less value to me, but not primarily because it is DRM encumbered but because of other features I want.

      Yes, I know, I just said that. The DRM makes the encumbered product less value for money because (a) it makes the product less valuable, and (b) because it makes the product cost more. All you're saying here is that you're discounting the first part. If the online version cost 1/4 as much the CD version, what would the demand be like? Do you think that might open up some new business models? Well, you know what's keeping that from happening?

      iTunes and iPod are part and parcel of the same (new) DRM-enabled (successful) business model.

      "When we first went to talk to these record companies -- you know, it was a while ago. It took us 18 months. And at first we said: None of this technology that you're talking about's gonna work. We have Ph.D.'s here, that know the stuff cold, and we don't believe it's possible to protect digital content.

      What's new is this amazingly efficient distribution system for stolen property called the Internet -- and no one's gonna shut down the Internet. And it only takes one stolen copy to be on the Internet. And the way we expressed it to them is: Pick one lock -- open every door. It only takes one person to pick a lock. Worst case: Somebody just takes the analog outputs of their CD player and rerecords it -- puts it on the Internet. You'll never stop that. So what you have to do is compete with it." -- Steve Jobs


      If DRM didn't exist, iTunes and the iPod would be more successful, not less.

      DRM doesn't enable this new business model.

      DRM is something this new business model has to put up with, in the short term. It's a roadblock on the way to success, and iTunes is only as successful as it is because it bypasses the roadblock with a DRM scheme that they document how to bypass on their website.

      Price is set based on what the customer is willing to pay.

      Um, you remember that exercise from "Introduction to Economics" where you take the supply curve and the demand curve and you put them together and get the ideal price? Price is based on both supply and demand, and what DRM does is skew the supply curve by artificially increasing the marginal cost of production. This increases the overhead and reduces the profit margin, and reduces the size of the market. Reducing the cost of production increases the profit at the same price, but as more producers take advantage of it the supply curve moves and a new equilibrium price is reached, with a larger market. Depending on the demand curve, the total profit can be much much higher.

      Given how little of the market is in online sales, that's an indication that the total sales without the overhead of DRM will be much much higher... and that's without even considering the additional sales from people who don't bother to buy music (or other content) at all. The market that DRM's standing in the way of could well be bigger than the total music business today.

      If the current content producers won't go after it, other people will... and are.
  32. There's DRM and then there's DRM by NetSettler · · Score: 1

    Although I don't disagree with a lot of specific claims in the piece, I disagree that those claims can be applied as sweepingly as they seem to be. Generalizations are useful as a way of gathering insights, but are often not predictive unless also exhaustive and rigorous. I gained some useful insights from the article, and yet no confidence that it would predict behavior because it appeared implicitly to give permission to overlook other things of importance in its rush for what seemed to me a too-facile analysis. Overlooking detail can give you good explanatory power, but there's no proof that the same details wouldn't matter in another circumstance, and so an explanation that a certain bridge failed because of bad placement of its struts (without regard to what kind of metal was used) might precisely explain that issue, and yet not usefully predict that the detail of metal choice is the relevant thing to expect in another case where the struts are placed right. I don't doubt that the factors he cites matter in some cases, but I do doubt they are the only things that could matter.

    I'll give two specific examples of concerns I had about the reasoning he did:

    First, DRM as practiced relies on additional assumptions not made apparent not discussed in the otherwise good essay; those need to be accounted for, and I don't think the accounting is trivial. In particular, there's an implicit assumption in industry that the "good" music and the "good" TV is what is under DRM and the "other" music and the other "TV" is not. People might quibble over whether I should substitute "polished" or "slick" for "good" and "unpolished" or "raw" for "bad", but I think any fair analysis would say that the aggregate level of quality available in TV, at least, from Cable TV or a commercial movie studio is different and of higher quality (along at least some axes) than the average level of quality produced on a home camcorder and posted to YouTube. Over time, that will change, of course, there is a notion of "scarcity" which relates to quality, and one argument that DRM clings to and that is somewhat defensible is that what is needed to maintain this distinction is money, and that DRM enables the money, allowing a small number of larger and better funded efforts. If what it takes to make the good stuff is money in large quantities, and money in large quantity is doomed to remain scarce, then DRM might succeed for a long time. If making good quality music or movie houses becomes dirt cheap, then it might be gone overnight. But neither scenario seems to me a refutation of the usefulness of DRM in aggregating money. But the scarce thing might be "production money" not "music" and it might be that DRM is converting a market with no "aggregated money" into one with "just some" aggregated money, in which case it is adding value, and under the restrictions of the author's own reasoning, it is adding value.

    Second, though, I think DRM is villified unnecessarily here, if by DRM you mean "the management of digital rights" (in the abstract). If by DRM you mean "the specific set of rules in play today and the specific programs that implement these, notwithstanding that other rules could be chosen and other programs could be implemented that could still be correctly described under a banner named DRM", then indeed maybe something is broken. We don't condemn Democracy because we don't (depending on our party) like Clinton or Bush--we vote in smoeone else and still call it democracy. We don't condemn capitalism because we have a recession, nor herald it because of a monetary bubble.... well, we do, but we ought not. The subtext of this article seems to be to bring down DRM by proof, rather than to seriously analyze it. I see no enumeration of what it sets out to do, whether there are ways to fix it, etc. I see not even a definition of what DRM is so that I can know for sure whether it's a philoosphy or a specific set of rules being discussed.

    Copyright works not only to allow big companies to se

    --

    Kent M Pitman
    Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

  33. At Best a Bad Article by awol · · Score: 1

    At worst this article is completely disingenuous. A proper economic anaylsis of DRM may well be able to make a case that it cannot open up a new business model but this article is not it. At the core of the authors thesis is the statement (unproven) "DRM is fundamentally opposed to this concept. It is not increasing value for the consumer in any way, but about limiting it.". However it is easy to argue that DRM provides the incentive for some content creators to do the creating in the first place. As long as one creator is willig to enter the market "Safe in the knowledge that DRM protects their IP" then there is a new business model and the authors whole argument is shot to pieces.

    So lets think about it another (better) way; "DRM cannot be a positive contributor to net social utility". A simple argument would run;
    Once a content creator has been stimulated (economically or cathartically) to produce content that _particular_ content cannot have any further social capital invested in it since to do so would be formally inefficient. Every dollar returned to the original author (who has already been sufficiently rewarded for its creation otherwise they would never have done so in the first place) is a dollar that should better have been spent stimulating a different piece of contents createion.

    Don't misunderstand there are a whole bunch of value added services surroundig the content that have revenue streams, shops, library services, downloads, storage, viewers, original artwork suppliers, etc etc. Even the costs associated with its distribution are capable of driving a new business model whose marginal cost is very low (if not effectively zero).

    DRM comes into the picture and ensures that extra dollars are sent back to the author in excess of this "critical" amount. Therefore the overall utility of society is reduced since those extra dollars are not stimulating the creation of the extra content they could produce in the more efficient non-DRM world

    QED.

    This rough sketch is not designed to provide a bullet proof case. I hold firmly that there is such a proof; DRM cannot be a net positive contributor to social utility and as such it should be illegal. However the full defence of that posiiton is too long for the margin of this book.

    --
    "The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
  34. Not the fallacy by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

    Your argument is fallacious as well. You argue that a music track is not a physical good, therefore it has no value. Somebody must see value in entertainment, because I doubt people have been purchasing music CDs for $15 a pop all these years because they like the shiny media it comes on.

    The real fallacy in his argument is that he takes a perfectly valid economic point and draws a crazy conclusion from it out of left field. The author says, in a nutshell, "the economy awards money to those that add value [a true statement], and adding DRM to what would have been unrestricted content does not add value--it subtracts value [also a true statement], therefore there exists no viable business model that involves DRM [wild and incorrect conclusion]."

    Content distributors can still add value to their content, DRMed or not: quality ripping, quality distribution over high-speed pipes, centralization of content availability (because The Pirate Bay doesn't have everything), better usability (because my grandma doesn't know, and never will know, what a torrent is), authenticity, etc. All that stuff is worth something; just ask iTunes. DRM purports to allow distributors to protect their value-added distribution channel (to the extent that their DRM doesn't get cracked, which it always does).

    Unfortunately, the content distributors have totally misread the threat to their business model. They can keep screaming, "Piracy! Piracy is theft!" until they're blue in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that artists do not need the distributors anymore to sell their creative works. It used to be that if you wanted to see your music at Tower Records, you had to go through a label. Now, anyone can set up a website and circumvent the distributors entirely. That is the threat to their business models, not piracy.

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    1. Re:Not the fallacy by maynard · · Score: 1

      It looks to me like we're arguing from the same position.

      Your argument is fallacious as well. You argue that a music track is not a physical good, therefore it has no value.

      This interpretation was not my intended meaning. My argument is not that the track has no value, but that the added value is created not by the distribution model but by the composers and musicians who create the content. That is, notes (ingredients) do not add value. In this analogy composers and musicians are the chefs who create and cook new meals for restaurant patrons.

      The rest of what you say I pretty much agree with. Except that I have no problem with copyright as the founding fathers understood it. We could even debate whether a seven year copyright term is too short. Perhaps it should match the term of a patent. But it should not be nearly unlimited. As it stands now, the term has been extended such that it is now almost as long as half the time the US government has been in existence. That's just nuts.