Slashdot Mirror
Woman's House Robbed After Fake Craigslist Post
flanksteak writes "The Seattle Times is reporting that a woman in nearby Tacoma had her rental property stripped of almost everything after someone posted a fake Craigslist announcement that everything in the house could be hauled away no questions asked. When contacted, Craigslist said they would release data about the poster if they were issued a subpoena."
Cleaned it out:
"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along."
This really should be sad. But I laughed.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
XXX#######
Uh oh.
Jeez. It's sad but in a different way. Makes me sad about the nature of man. What happened to common decency?
I wonder what will happen if someone posts a photo on the internet with a personal ad "Hey I'm 18 and hot, come and have sex with me, even if I say no. My address is..."
I hope the people who plundered crap at least have the decency to bring it back if they hear it on the news. It almost makes me wonder how they got into the apartment? Someone ought to be charged with breaking and entering.
I'm a little sorry I didn't think of it first. I would of course use a library or an open wireless AP.
On a related note, I have heard of a story about an ad placed on Craigslist asking for several construction workers for a job and to have their own tools. Workers show up, the guy asks them to deconstruct the house, and leaves. When the homeowner comes home at the end of the day he faces a bunch of angry unpaid construction workers and a demolished house.
That one probably isn't true.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
I saw an interview with this person on the news.
1) They left the doors to the house UNLOCKED
2) They pissed someone off.
Ive often wondered if things like "free transmission behind X house" were actually something along these lines. Neighbours getting even. Its an interesting problem anyway that doesnt really have a solution I can see. No free webmail posts to craigslist?
I could see the same thing happening to any classified ads service. How do you know the laptop your buying is not hot? The car parts you buy? Its not craigslists job to verify every ad for truth. The only thing that needs to happen, is the obviously doubbley duped salvagers give her the stuff back. Imagine how pissed that would make the evicted tenant or whoever.
This is Rob "cmdrtaco" Malda.
I have to get rid of everything in my house quickly, and I'm gonna let it go for free in order to get it out of here fast. Please leave the computers in the back closet though, I use those for slashdot.
Thanks
Rob
I know it's supposed to be "news" that crime continues to exist despite (and sometimes with the facilitation of) the internet, but I can't seem to muster up the energy. I'm sure that when the phone was popularized there were initially stories about how people would use this new technology for dastardly crimes, such as getting pizzas delivered to the wrong address, but do we really at this point need be kept informed of the breaking development that yes, new technologies will be used by criminals as well as law-abiding citizens? Maybe I'm just crabby and this is a good old heads-up.
I went to the city because I wished to live without deliberation.
It's bizzare because it really does fit a classic urban myth profile. It obviously happened and the owner was shook up but it shows why urban myths are often believeable. Gotta wonder why no one that stripped the house questioned it. At least the first few to show up it must have looked like a normal house. It got pretty trashed so the later ones at least had an excuse.
RTFA. This was a piece of rental property that the woman owned. It was empty. None of her personal things were taken.
That sounds like a Craiglist ad I saw, except that one was real. I know because I went there and took the plasma television. Funny how two ads can be placed on the same site saying the same thing, even in the same area.
It doesn't matter if the door was unlocked, it's still considered theft. You can leave you keys in you car and the thief will still get charged with grand theft auto - though you insurance company might not cover it.
The article says it was her home that was vandalized. It also says she had recently evicted a rental tenant but it does not state that the vacated apartment was the one that was struck. It may be that the tenant posted the landlord's home address rather than the property he was evicted from. Or perhaps both the landlord and the ex-tenant lived in the same building and both apartments were hit. The article is not very clear on this point, but calling it her "home" strongly implies it's where she personally resided.
I disagree. Most theft statutes require intent. By making the post, the poster effectively stole all of the items from the woman and then gave them away. That people had to come get them is a technicality. They are surely guilty of receiving/possessing stolen goods, but imho they aren't guilty of theft.
I bet my tenant horror stories much more horrifying than your landlord horror stories. Being a landlord, especially one with multiple properties tends to turn the nicest people into complete assholes.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
I know several people who've been abused through Craigslist -- unfortunately it just proves too tempting an environment for assholes. One friend had his garage pretty much cleaned out (bikes, tools, etc) from a posting on Craigslist saying he was moving and was offering it all free to people who would pick it up.
One friend had her phone number posted when she turned down a second date from some jerk and he posted an ad claiming she wanted men to call her up and tell her how they'd use her -- she was VERY freaked out until I figured out what had happened and got the post removed, then she debated changing her number because guys were calling at 2am and waking her up but I set her up with ringtone groups for which anyone not in the phonebook would get a silent ring. Then she just had to delete dirty voicemails for a few more weeks until the fun wore off and the guys realized she was never calling back.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
This user wants to be modded down. Please mod him/her down.
Table-ized A.I.
Has the victim tried to post a new ad asking for her stuff back? The lost+found section?
Let's see. Brief Synopsis of a great deal of the replies here...
/. especially) should be donating everything they can to help this woman out. It doesn't matter if she is rich beyond means, or if she needs to rent this property to keep from being homeless. Pranks and acts of vandalism like this are not funny. At all.
1: She was an Evil landlord. She evicted someone. She deserved it.
2: Karma returned to her what she deserved.
3: It was a rental property. She can afford to replace everything.
4: She left the property unlocked. She deserved what she got.
5: Crime is nothing new. This is nothing new. Laugh all you want.
WTF people? IF and WHEN something like this happens to you, you will change your tune VERY quickly. What does it say about the state of people today when the biggest mouths all laugh at someone's misfortune, writing it off to just be "Life". People who engage at finding entertainment in the misery of others, are the ones responsible for continuing the misery of others.
Sure it could happen (and probably has) with regular old paper classifieds. That doesn't make it OK. People in the Tacoma area that read this (and those here on
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." -D. Adams
I wouldn't say karma, per se, since the tenant most likely had it coming (it's very difficult to evict someone without a reason). It's just a biproduct of property management that you make enemies. When your tenant become a liability and/or breaks there contract, it's a business decision to you, but it's a home decision to them.
A great prank/revenge?!!? Are you fracking kidding me?!?! The tenant was evicted... which TYPICALLY means said tenant didn't own up to their bills or violated some sort of agreement signed when they moved in. I'm sorry, but in no way is stealing a "great prank". Particularly when it involves stealing things like the hot water heater and kitchen sink, things which, without, the home is now completely worthless. You need to seriously rethink what you consider a prank. If it's your buddies calling your girlfriend, you'll pay up in your own hell... but you need to consider the collateral damage. In this case, it's going to cost this lady thousands of dollars. And YOU consider it a good prank? When was the last time you spent thousands of dollars just to pull off a prank (and if you had, where do you work, I could use a job like that)? This isn't funny.... this is the kind of thing that causes fear in our society for people who don't have the means to support themselves. It's the "good" thing to think, "Hey, they're a little down on their luck, let me help". And I really do like to think that way, but it's stories like this that make me think, "They're not down on their luck, they're just out to screw someone." As for the people who went in and took stuff... c'mon people! Use a little common sense! Should Craig's List require a subpoena? Of course! But that doesn't make what happened any better. You've got one imbecile who's mad because (s)he can't pay their debts, and then a bunch of other people who are just, apparently, waiting to prey on a CLEARLY false opportunity. If you're the kind of person who reads that add and thinks "the hot water heater MUST be okay to take" then I've got this great bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Think of all the money you can make on tolls! It even has a pedestrian walkway! Real cheap, but act fast, the bids keep coming in! Seriously... THINK about anything you see on the internet. This is supposed to be such an advanced society what with our acceptance of technology, and all this shows is that we're too stupid to filter out the crap. If anyone here fell for that add, it's a wonder you're not broke for buying EVERYTHING you see on a T.V. commercial. A good general rule of thumb is if it looks too good to be true, it probably is, and you should do a little research before you sink your time and/or money into it. If you don't believe that, quit your job and go do the "clearly" higher paying job they offer on T.V. to "work from home" and "make millions of dollars". I really expect more from society. I like to think that as information becomes more prevalent, people become more wary... Clearly I'm being too optimistic. Time to call my folks and make sure they're not doing something stupid...
I grew up in the town where the Angel of Death was born and raised. Do we have to drive around in APCs instead of regular cars and sleep in bullet-proof vests? Well, no. So unless you could name a mechanism by which Tacoma makes people dangerous (except that it's a town in the USA), that's not exactly a reasonable argument. I don't question the conclusion of locking the door, but maybe the rationale behind it is more than "we had a couple real bad guys born here". Anecdotal evidence only goes so far.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
During college I lived in what was called the "fruit section" of Bozeman MT, not only because of the street names (Plum, Avocado, Peach, etc.) but also because of the numbers of just plain fruity people living there. Anyway, one day I opened my garage (which was well off the street) to discover a bunch of stuff I didn't recognise had magically appeared -- a set of wheels, a kitchen stove, misc. household goods, garden tools, etc. Didn't appear to be dumped, stolen, nor broken. Landlord said it wasn't his stuff either. I never did find out where it came from.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
OK, sure, Cletus told me to do it isn't a good defense, but...
"Cletus told me that he owned it, and that I could take it. Furthermore, he told me in a forum where such offers are not uncommonly made, where offers for such services as one night stands are often solicited, and where completely fraudulent offers are commonly listed with no detection or tagging methods" sounds pretty good.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/20 03654116_housestripped06m.html
"Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster said an after-hours customer-service representative initially denied Raye's request for information, but after further review "we gathered enough info to be confident that we would be within the law to release the info to the victim herself."
The ad was online for only about an hour and a half before enough craigslist users flagged it and it was removed, Buckmaster said."
The latest update contradicts what you state. The name of the poster will be revealed and it is up to the police to bring the poster in.
Most likely "family" were evicted because they are drug users, Raye is a cruel landlord or some other reason.
And, dear slashdotters, that post is an example of why the preview button was invented...
Boy do I feel bad now for the poor schmuck who lives at 123 First St., Schenectady, NY 12345
I've been signing them up for junk mail, spam, credit card offers, everything for years now.
Holy shit, Google Maps says that that address actually exists.
Sorry, dude.
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Maybe I'm just not a trusting soul, but it seems to me that if I were a demolition contractor, I'd require a meeting with the client to show me his ID and the deed to the building before I'd accept the job. I know that in Santa Cruz county (California) at least, you have to get a permit for that kind of work. I'd be surprised if that's not the case in most of the USA.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
>WTF people? IF and WHEN something like this happens
>to you, you will change your tune VERY quickly.
Yep. Nobody is *really* a relativist. The coolest punk
or the smarmiest professor turns positively Puritan
when it's *their* stuff stolen, *their* face punched,
*their* wife raped.
Clearly, you do not understand what an eviction is, so let me help you. First of all, a landlord may not evict a tenant. In some jurisdictions, a landlord who evicts a tenant could go to jail. At any rate, he would certainly owe the tenant damages. Look up "constructive eviction" to see what I'm talking about.
Here's how a real eviction works:
- Tenant violates his lease, generally by not paying his rent
- Landlord posts notice on the property to "Pay or Quit" (experienced landlords do this the minute rent is late.. beginning landlords let the tenant be late for a few months before acting). This means the tenant is given X number of days (number varies by jurisdiction) to pay rent or leave.
- Assuming tenant doesn't pay by day X, landlord sues tenant for possession of his property. A court date is set.
- Landlord goes in front of a judge and says why he's suing (tenant hasn't paid rent in 3 months, or whatever), and the tenant can present a defense ("I did pay, here are the canceled checks", or "No, I did not pay, but there was a legal reason for me not to pay and that reason is Y") and the judge decides what to do.
- Assuming the tenant had no legal defense, the judge will order the sheriff to evict the tenant.
- You set up a date with the sheriff for him to do the actual eviction.
- You show up with movers and a locksmith to meet the sheriff at the scheduled time.
- Locksmith opens the door (in case the tenant changed the locks) and then locksmith changes the locks.
- Sheriff removes the tenant from the building
- Movers move all the tenants prized possessions to the curb
- Scavengers take anything of value
- Garbage man takes the rest
At this point, the landlord is out a minimum of one month of rent (it takes time for the wheels of justice to turn) and usually more, plus court costs, eviction costs, locksmith, movers, etc.In other words, if someone's getting evicted, it's for a darn good reason. It must be approved by a judge, and it costs money to do.
As you can see, this lady got kicked while she was down.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I can't believe how many of my peers digress into banal discussions about evil landlords and evil tenants when examining a piece like this. I have my students do case studies every week. When they come across an interesting piece, like this one, that does not immediately seem related to networking or technology (the subjects I teach), I ask them to make the connection for me. That point of connection is usually the main point we, as tech professionals, can take away.
In this case, it demonstrates a flaw in the Craigslist community--an honor-based system--that allows people to post for any address. If anyone can log on and post an ad that refers to any address (e.g. "Change of staff--new office holder wants to redecorate--take what you want from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Washington, D.C.), you might say "didn't see that coming" the first time, but you sure can anticipate the copycats. Think of what the credit card industry went through--once upon a time you could order and have something shipped anywhere. Now, you are mostly limited to shipping to your billing address. If Craigslist were my firm (and for the case studies, I ask my students to put themselves in that position), I would look at devising a way to limit posts to the verified address of a registered user only.
Should Craigslist do this? That's their call. I'm just saying that instead of griping and moaning about bad landlords and rental experiences, we should look at an item like this and say "what can I learn from it." I would not want to risk even implied liability for my company by allowing such fraud to be propogated on my watch. Didn't online firms learn anything from that online check service that allowed anyone to register checking accounts without verifying their owners?
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
I think it was meant to imply they didn't speak much english, which would make the resolution of a misunderstanding that much harder.
Note to metamods: this was a brilliant on-topic post by Tablizer, allegorically enforcing the point of the article. But, the mods are too thick to get that. In these matters, Dumb Moderation == Unfair Moderation.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
This is probably because you "think" you're living in a house when actually you're living in a walmart, the low wages just give the impression of not being paid.
I felt bad when i read your post as you obviously ran out of page breaks.. here are a few, they are good for breaking up long posts into smaller paragraphs:
I believe the proper action for Craigslist is to simply ignore any non-official demands for information.
The only "official" way to demand information is a subpoena or search warrant.
I don't want them shooting off the personal details of every poster each time they get an email claiming to be from "Joe FBI".
Stew
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.