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An iPod For Every Kid In Michigan
mikesd81 writes "Over at C|Net there is an article about Michigan spending $38 million to distribute an iPod to every kid, for learning purposes. From the article: 'On Thursday, House Democrats delivered a spending bill that includes the idea of putting $38 million worth of public funds toward outfitting every student with a digital music player.' The plan included measures to tax soda and satellite TV services to pay for it, among other things, to raise funds. If you recall, Duke University tried something like this with mixed results. How financially strained will Michigan residents feel about paying higher taxes to buy someone else's kid an iPod?"
Please allow me to contribute the obligatory "yes, because blackboards and chalk have clearly failed us" response.
Why not spend the money on text books or library books or classrooms or teachers? Or all four?
It is hard to see how they could keep these iPods from being used for purposes other than educational. Who pays for stolen ones or broken ones? Some parents can't afford one to give to their kids on their own, to replace one would be atrocious. In the end, this is just more politicians wasting time on things that do not really matter instead of focusing on the things that do.
Or, at least, it is a horrible idea unless I can manage to be declared eligible.
Seriously, how about spending the millions of dollars on teachers? I just can't see any real requirement for a DAP for educational purposes. Want the students to be able to listen to lectures as home? Put MP3's on the school website and let students listen to them at the computer or put them on their own DAP. Need students to be able to listen to audio on their own while in class? 30 million dollars buys a lot of blank CD-R's, and CD players are a hell of a lot less expensive than iPods.
30 million dollars also buys a hell of a lot of teacher bonuses. IMNSHO, Investing in teachers will have more of a benefit than whatever hair brained scheme they have cooked up for the iPods.
Mod parent up!
Do you think the RIAA lobbied Michigan for the free ipods? I believe they need some more cash..
"Here you go young child, here's a free ipod, can't pay for music on it? Don't worry - HA HA HA"
Rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of suing all those kids..
Now if only someone can write an adding & subtracting game for the PS3, I can start lobbying politicians here to subsidise those...for educational purposes =)
In fact, the Wii promotes physical fitness as well, so they'd better give us one of them too. [It might seem weird to give us a game of a sport rather than encouraging us to actually do said sport, but it's not. It's progress =)]
Between the falling angel and the rising ape
An iPod For Every Kid In Michigan
FTFA: "On Thursday, House Democrats delivered a spending bill that includes the idea of putting $38 million worth of public funds toward outfitting every student with a digital music player."
I don't know how you get "iPod" out of "digital music player." Anyone else think the OP is a troll for Apple?
Just so we're all clear, digital music player =/= iPod, paper tissue =/= Kleenex and self-adhesive bandage =/= Band-aid.
For one Michigan has a deficit officially at 940 million, probably north of 1 billion. Also the Republicans control the senate, this will never pass.
Get up!
Part of being a community is pooling resources in to help others. Even if you don't have any children of your own, for example, someone paid for your schooling, and when you're an adult you pay it back.
Of course, then there are the endless arguments about exactly how this money should be spent...
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
Consider this:
- the state of Michigan currently has a fiscal year 2007 budget of $920 million
- the state government has been instructed to prepare for a shutdown this may due to lack of funds
- next year's budget deficit is estimated to be more than $1 billion due to the single-business tax repeal that hasn't been replaced
- Gov. Granholm has proposed higher taxes (a 2% tax on services) to cover part of the current deficit
Combined with the problems of the Big 3 automakers (GM, Ford, Chrysler) that's been causing most of the economic slump in this area, the state legislatures have got to be daft to propose more spending on such silly projects. Now is the time for spending cuts, not increased spending!
The state has been trying to convince students to stay in the state following graduation; I for one will run out of this state as fast as I can once I graduate in a few months (PhD in Aerospace Engineering). There is no way I want to stick around and see the state legislature and governor make the state economy even worse than it is.
I like the concept, but I have a few problems with it.
First of all, why Apple? I love Apple, and I love the iPod, but in many ways, it's a prestige brand, not something that is warranted for a utilitarian purpose such as this. You can easily find as capable and reliable MP3 players for less than half the price of an equivalent iPod. The "wow" factor and ease of integration with iTunes, are both major features of the iPod, and both totally irrelevant to the educational purposes talked about here.
Also, learning is a very visual medium. Unless we're talking about the super expensive video iPods, then the use will be limited to audio and minimal simplistic document reading. (There are other, cheaper devices that do video and documents better/cheaper than a non-video iPod.) Are most textbooks available/suitable/useful for viewing on a 1 inch screen? Wouldn't that involve buying digital copies of all the relevant texts, and additional and unnecessary cost?
Plus, it will disguise music use; "what are you doing, Jimmy?" "Listening to a lecture, ma'am." Meanwhile he's listening to tunes. Like it or not, school kids do need some structure and supervision; this makes it too easy to goof off.
It sounds like someone's trying to seem progressive, and is very misguided.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
"The iPods that will be given away are iPod Shuffle, a light music player that shuffles the songs and plays them randomly", explained a spokesman for the House of Representatives.
"We'll intermix the lectures with the latest pop and hip-hop singles, and the kids will have to put up with listening to lectures randomly so they can play they favorite music. We think it'll be a smashing success.".
House Democrats delivered a spending bill that includes the idea of putting $38 million worth of public funds toward outfitting every student with a digital music player.
So let me get this straight: Apple's next big product is called the iPorkBarrel?
Don't you understand man? You wanting to get out of Michigan as fast as you can, which has been the trend for highly educated students coming out of Michigan Universities, is a big reason for why Michigan is going down the tubes. If you really care about our state, you would stay and do your part in trying to bring back economic prosperity to the region. I for one am sick and tired of all my fellow college students ranting about how they want to escape Michigan as fast as they can... don't they feel some sort of responsibility or compassion for the state in which they were brought up?
I think OLPC's would be a great idea. They are actually cheaper than iPods (and many other DAP's) and as long as you buy 1M+ of them then there's no reason why you can't. They would be much more usefull in education and since thats what they were designed for, as opposed to entertainment, it might seems much more worthwhile paying for them.
"sudo rm -rf your-face"
Here they have given television sets and all in election campaigns. US does one better by givin iPods. That too taxing the people for that. Wow Indian politicians have to learn this soon.
I went to school in Michigan from grades k-12. They could barely get millages passed for semi-odd proposals; there's no way this one's going to pass, especially if it's state wide. I can assume that the North (Let's say anything north of Bay City) will be against it. I can't make any assumption about the South. Either way, I'm just imagining all the requests for new ipods because the kid dropped it in the Au Sable river while canoeing. Man does that suck when a canoe trip turns into an underwater scavenging hunt for car keys.
Hey, look! It's Bono's brother.
Living in Michigan, I can tell you I was shocked to read this. We're currently facing a multi-hundred million budget deficeit (400+ iirc), and this actually stayed in? They're closing schools all over the state, our single-business tax has expired, so they're trying to get another gas tax added on (costing 3cents/gal. for 3 years for a total of an additional 9/gal), and Granholm has been trying to get an "entertainment" tax in place, meaning taxes on movies, video games, etc. etc. Our "sin" tax seemingly goes up yearly, meaning when I moved back up here from TN. I went from paying under $3/pack of smokes to over $5. Granted, that's not as high as some metropolitan areas, but the cost of living is no where NEAR those places, therefore neither are the wages.
Frankly, I'm saddened by it. We used to have some of the best roads in the nation, and now I can't drive to work without wondering when my suspension is going to fail. It's not even a matter of avoiding the potholes, you actually have to avoid entire roads. Now you're telling me every little bastard in school is going to get an ipod? What about my nephew, who attends a private charter school? We pay property taxes, even though he doesn't attend public schools, and now you're going to tell me I have to foot the bill for this?
I only wish Granholm hadn't been the lesser of two evils this prior election. On the bright side, however, she's done a great job turning the strengths of our states into our weaknesses, while also driving businesses (Lifesavers, Johnson Controls, numerous others) out of the area. What's next?
Don't worry if you're a kleptomaniac, you can always take something for it.
seriously wtf. This is the dumbest idea these policrats are spittin out since i dunno, ever. This money could be used to how about this: pay teachers more. I'm not saying get more teachers. Pay them higher salary. If i was a teacher and i suddenly got more money i would think i would enjoy teaching more. Happy teacher = learned student IMHO. I seriously think the country as a whole should be pumping money into the school system because now its not just the problem of too many people living too long or something and not enuff people putting into social security for each person that is receiving but that there will be too many idiots that cant make enuff money to put money into the system a guess what happens after that! The current generation will have dumb kids that cant support us when we are living way too long! or something like that i dunno maybe i am dumb and dont know how the system works but ranting at 5am is better than sleeping right now i think.
Balderdash!
Fortunately, in this case, I think that treating this idea with anything other than sarcasm lends it too much credit. All politics aside. I'm not bashing it - it really is a stupid idea.
How about the Pennsylvania Fund for Broke College Students who are holding their source code server together with duct tape and prayer? Namely, me. If they get music players, I demand that I be upgraded to an opteron at tax payers expense.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/
The bill includes the cost savings by releasing 2400 prisoners. They will Not be given iPods. Instead, each will get a confiscated weapon if they promise to move to Ohio.
Not yet made public is a clause that makes Detroit part of Canada. "We are hoping that the change does Detroit good, moving to a new place can have that effect, you know, and Canada is really very nice,really."
TFA is very light on verifiable facts. It links to an editorial, not a news article. I dug arounbd for a while but couldn't find what the proposers of this idea actually said, only those attacking them.
But one thing, it does say "MP3 player or iPod". This could very likely mean that "iPod" is being used as a generic term; like "walkman", "hoover", kleeenx", as just meaning a kind of hardware despite their being trademarks. Apple may get a look in, but if it goes through it could easily be some generic MP3 player with low-end specs.
The iPod buys YOU!
I am a high school info tech teacher in Michigan. Some of my classes are currently working to produce podcasts to help improve their understanding of available resources to support their current and future learning and to increase the range of media that they can communicate through. I have only just heard of the iPod initiative. The research I share with my students shows that good podcasts take planning and use intelligent editing. Class lectures done in podcasts will be of no more value than current hard copy if the students don't listen to or view them.
iPods for learning have potential, but despite the good intentions, it currently is just another top down, half-baked solution to a serious problem. Past experience leads me to be very cynical of tech initiatives for education, not because they can't work, but because they are incompletely supported.
I'm in the same boat - the not sleeping thing, not the rest of the post. Actually, people with low income put all of their money back into the economy. It's not like they're saving it when they're living paycheck to paycheck. And, as it goes, we need people in this country to do manual labor. That's the reality of this world, for better or worse, you fill a place in society whether you want to or not. If the current generation has dumb kids, well, we'll find something for them to do and their paychecks will go back into the economy. If they're all smart kids, we'll use them for research and sell the technology, knowing that not all of their paychecks will go back into the economy as fully. Albiet, a smaller part of a much larger whole in the latter case.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
I was trying to be economical... That, and a mile down the road at work I have a dual processor, dual core, dual logical core Xeon 5000 1U. So, I have 8 logical cores...but, alas, you are correct; that isn't 8 physical cores. And I need a machine that reviews couldn't peg in benchmarking! Why, how else, could I keep my code safe? I'm going to write my representative immediately! Thank you, kind sir! I salute your sarcasm! :)
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
Ostensibly they're trying to save money on things like textbooks or language labs with tape decks. If that's the case, they should just stop refreshing textbooks for a while until they save enough money to buy an iPod and load it with educational content.
:P
;P
Oh wait, schools hardly refresh textbooks as it is, that wouldn't raise enough money very fast
Even then, they often forget that putting an iPod / PDA / laptop in a kids' hands is useless without any specialized content to throw on it, and the support structure to load and maintain that content.
I'd question their decision to use an iPod rather than a more general-purpose PDA, which are cheaper, can run more programs, and still play back music and movies like an iPod, except for the larger screen that PDAs have.
As of 2003, there were 52 million school age children in the US (http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/l atestpopcounts.htm).
l )
As of the end of 2006, there were 42 million iPods sold (http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6416165.htm
It strikes me that a large percentage of the Michigan school kids probably already have iPods.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
On the other hand, even supposing they have plenty of money they still made a bad choice.
Based on my experience with a new video iPod I received as a present:
You can easily find as capable and reliable MP3 players for less than half the price of an equivalent iPod.
You exaggerate, I think... the Apple Tax is more like 40% than 100%.
Exactly why has this become our top priority. I've watched from forty miles away as they've closed down Detroit schools and shut that community out more than they already are. Places like Detroit and inner Flint are struggling to even fit the definition of a city in the first world, and now our economic priority is... digital audio players! Oh, yeah. Because we all know that they're going to go home and put on their device scientific podcasts and discussions debating the importance of the Han Dynasty in China. We all know how academically sound students are anyway. THIRTY EIGHT MILLION DOLLARS? We just had an election centered on our business tax and how we can appropriate funds once we remove it. WELL THERE YOU GO. Better yet, let's spend that 38 million reviving the education system to include some kind of motivation and benefit to graduate well. But now. Now teachers and future teachers, like me, will get to hear "Sorry Mrs. Teacher, I didn't do my homework podcast thing because I had to rip cd's onto the ipod." Great job on the priorities, little Jimmy. Your government hath done thineself proud.
Arts education, particularly music education is something every student should have, and most students need more of.
You can try to stuff more math and language arts training into children, but in most cases the marginal effort would be better spent on music education. Yes, of course we need basic skills in math and writing. But actual fluency in using those skills has a lot in common with music, and we have no better way of training those aspects of functional literacy than music.
My state has rigorous exams in every academic area by which schools are judged (we had this even before No Child Left Behind). My daughter single handed raised her school's math ranking by acing the math exam. She's also an opera nut (bit of a snob actually). The facts are not unrelated. We were not a "Baby Mozart" kind of family, we've just always enjoyed music and we watch opera and musical theater DVDs regularly, just for pleasure.
Some people seem to believe that making schools more effective is equivalent to making them grim, joyless places.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
sfw.. dont forget someone else will be buying *your* kids ipod then. The cost of the ipod will most likely be covered 10 times over by the amount of tax increases the state will gain:
"..tax soda and satellite TV services, among other things, to raise funds."
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
By design, but not for technical reasons, the iPod is not accessible to the blind nor the Deaf. Both RockBox and VoiceOver demonstrate, independently, paths to solving the first challenge. Captioning for video is an even easier fix that effects even more people. Apple only last month made iTunes accessible.
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
Er.. no. How many billions more dollars must be wasted on the 'education system' before people realize throwing money at it does no good - including pay for teachers. Note that in 2005 the median household income was $46,300. [we'll assume teacher salaries are not so widely dispersed that the mean is a fair estimate of the median] Teachers get a tremendous benefits package and do not work a full year. The students educated before electronic blackboards, computers in every class, class size under 20, (insert stupid education metric here) managed to graducate high school and go on to such things as developing quantum mechanics, various field theories, nuclear weapons, man on moon, space probes,.... And until you actually pay for the little rugrats education by owning a property you will never fully understand just how much it costs. My latest assessment results in local school taxes in excess of the full year tuition at the state college. And before you claim the college is subsidized, so is the local school system. The system is horribly broke and it is time turn back the clock and revert to what once worked very well (note to parents: this might also include getting the balls to disciplining your child).
...of outrage if the suggestion was to buy MacBooks for every classroom.
Probably not... although, I imagine that 30 years ago, there was probably some resistance to buying kids Apple II's in their schools, with the same old curmudgeon responses, "But the roads stink. We don't need more stuff in schools... bah!!!"
Yes, Michigan roads stink... I always know I've hit the Michigan border when I hear the "kerchunk, kerchunk" every few seconds... you can set a timer to it. Perhaps it's the fact that you guys drive like 90 MPH.
Michigan is in the same dire straights that Ohio is now, but it's not because of Jennifer Granholm or anything the state government did or did not do. The U.S. automobile industry is in the tanker, and the economy of Michigan feeds off of the Big 3. No amount of state intervention (or non-intervention) would have helped the situation. If you can blame anyone, blame our federal government, who has shown little interest in protecting American industries. Michigan is just feeling it's disastrous effects. Of course, political opponents are using this to their advantage. But, does anyone really believe that DeVos would have been able to improve anything?
This single line item in the budget that has everybody so in an uproar won't pass. It can't pass, since the state can't run a deficit like the feds... It sure struck a nerve, but unfairly so, I believe.
Thanks,
Mike
While the merits of distributing a solid-state audio player to every child are certainly debatable, the idea of supplying iPods is not. Why should Apple receive a state subsidy when there are many less expensive and more capable MP3 players out there? Just so the kids will feel good about themselves? Half of the things will probably be stolen the first week after they're handed out. In any event, this is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars, if the idea is to allow children to receive audio lessons. And no, I didn't RTFA, I just felt the need to spew a random comment.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You're wrong. Michigan is experiencing a single state recession and the Governor's solution is to raise taxes on an already overburdened population. Michigan should be cutting spending and lowering taxes in a bid to retain those of us who are contributing to the tax base instead of reaching into our wallets and trying to take more. Michigan has to compete with 49 other states in addition to countries the world over. When will the Governor realize this and take steps to make Michigan a more attractive place to do business instead of raising taxes and making an already bad economic situation worse? Nobody has an obligation to stay in Michigan, especially when it's being mismanaged in such a horrendous fashion.
The Michigan Congressional Delegation is also to blame. For every dollar Michigan residents send to the federal government the State of Michigan receives about $0.85 cents back in return. It's a crime that Michigan is a donor state given our current economic situation. Especially when there is every indication that it's going to get worse before it gets better. Our Congressmen and Senators should be on the floor of their respective Houses of Congress every day that Congress is in session making an issue of this situation! Why would anybody expect residents with the means to stay in this state when their elected representatives continue to show such a failure of leadership?
The state budget's already running a big, fat deficit. Do you think Michigan can afford to pay what Canada would demand to take Detroit?
Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
If this goes through it will be a bullys wish, no more crappy robbing kids of thier lunch money, steal thier iPod! I could just see a bunch of the eBaying it anyways.
Hmm, thought maybe the origin of the article might have been April Fools day but didn't see that (only backtracked the article a few levels though). FTA: "to transport or store digital documents and projects" How about a cheap USB flash drive instead? It would likely be much easier to use than an iPod for transferring documents. Not sure what kids need to transfer so much stuff for though... When I was in college, I did my CS work remotely and just transfered the work via FTP or something between their system and mine. FTA: ", or to listen to lectures" Yeah, maybe for college w/ large auditoriums or if you miss lectures. For grade/high school, how about just going to class and actually listening for a change? you know, what you're supposed to be at school for Oh yeah, plus if they used iPods, what about all of the kids that don't even have computers at home? They'd probably just sell their iPod for money anyway...
How is an iPod educational ? I remember way back in the 90's when I was a student :P We didn't have MP3 course materials, we had audio cassettes. A portable cassette player in the 90's cost about $20. Then when CD burners got cheap, people were distributing discs. A portable CD player in the 2000's costs $20. iPod players cost $200 right now, and I doubt they'll ever be $20, not even the chinese knockoffs. I say stick to CD players. They're cheap, they're reliable, they're ubiquitous, they're well understood by even the dumbest members of society; all facts that do not apply to digital players at this point in time.
Of all the things going on in Michigan right now, this is not a priority. Just walk up to any state citizen and ask them what they think their government should be doing. The ones who answer "iPod!", just smack them over the head with a shovel! What most honest, self-supporting people in North America want from their government is less bullshit like this, and lower taxes. The more stuff the government buys with tax money, the closer we get to being full-on communists.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Flamebait or educated inference? All the links say is that it is "the Dem's budget plan". Apparently, nobody is taking responsibility for it or offering a reasoned defense. Isn't this the way lobbyist graft works? And if you "follow the money" (a pretty useful maxim in my experience) the beneficiary is?
I wonder what Nicholas Negroponte thinks about this and whether distributing $100 laptops to poor U.S. kids is still a stupid idea.
I suggest the free iPod giveaway be combined with a tax on iPods sold on eBay by Michigan residents! A win-win situation!
What will this accomplish? How could any digital music player be educational if you gave it to teenagers?
according to TFA, it says it could be used to to transport or store digital documents and projects, or to listen to lectures.
couldn't you buy a cheap small flash drive instead? Floppy disks? Could kids instead take notes at the lecture instead of listening to it later?
The money used to buy this could be spent on much more important things. Teachers, books, actual supplies, etc; This will only make students perform worse.
However, I doubt that even politicians would be dumb enough to pass this.
Well, this is just a little bit grotesque. Last week The Oakland Press had on a story on the front page titled, "Government Shutdown." The entire article, as well as many of the front page articles of the past three weeks, talked about how the governor of Michigan and the Michigan legislator are in a battle about how to balance Michigan's budget and lose the debt that was obtained MANY years ago. The articles always mention how the politicians are looking to cut certain government programs and reduce the funds given to cities and other areas of Michigan's government. And of course, what better way to "cut" spending than to buy an MP3 player for every student in Michigan. COME ON NOW. They already cut funding for schools by $30+ per student. Now they want to increase it by $200+ on something that hasn't even been proven to aid students in learning? If I could place a huge thumbs down icon here, I would.
Less-geeky computer repair alternative for Lansing, MI
Seems to me they've been at this for a while. Any Apple shareholders in the committee that decided this?
[alk]
Actually, if anything, I think teachers aren't being paid enough. Ever heard the phrase "those who can, do, those who can't, teach"? It's true - if you can do something, you get a job doing it. If you can't make a living doing it, instead you teach people how to do it. Guess how well this works.
There's three big problems with the American educational system at the moment.
* Money going to the wrong places - computers bought with no plans in mind, new buildings without staff for them, extraordinary administrator salaries for administrators who don't do anything.
* Incompetent teachers, paid badly enough to keep all the possibly-skilled teachers far, far away.
* America's teacher's union, which essentially requires teachers to be kept or fired based solely on seniority, not competence.
The latter keeps the former two going. If you want to fix the educational system, the first thing you do is get rid of the damn union, the second thing you do is fire crappy teachers, and the third thing you do is raise teacher salaries enough to hire good teachers.
Supply and demand. There's just not enough demand to create a good supply.
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Could I please stop hearing this "Teacher's don't work all year" rhetoric. Technically Nobody works all year. Teacher's work roughly 180 days a year depending on the state, and other full time positions work maybe 260 (5 days a week x 52 weeks) also subtract your paid vacation time and holidays, say another 20 days so a full 240 days a year. That's 40 more days of work.
Next time you go to work (if you work a standard 9-5 job) think about your 15 minute breaks and hour lunch, Teachers don't get that. One half hour lunch and an hour of "prep Time" when students aren't in your room... but this time is used for getting more work done, it's not a break. That's a Full hour a day of "time off" regular full time employees get that teacher's don't, so every 8 days is almost another full day of "work". Over the course of a year is almost 30 days of "work time".
This doesn't even account for the 4+ hours of unpaid work done when we get home. Go home after a long day of work and grade 25 biographies, 25 math assignments and 25science journals. It's a lot of work in addition to spending a couple more hours getting all the materials ready for the next day, lesson plans, worksheets, schedule... these things take time to prepare... time we're not technically paid for. My math is pretty weak, but I think it illustrates that, in a 180 day work schedule, teachers work a full year's worth of work time for your average 9-5 job. That $47,000 you cited (which I WISH I made that much), pays for a full year's worth of work. Do teacher's "work" 240 days a year like most jobs? No, but they obviously put in the same amount of hours working as a full 240 day job.
That's just the minimum ammount of extra time required to make a classroom run effectively. The real teachers that are going above and beyond to make every day of class exciting, are putting in extra hours to design props, models, miniatures, decorations for the room, costumes... you name it. Those take countless more hours to prepare. Of course not EVERY teacher goes to those lengths, but some do and they get paid the exact same as a teacher who does less.
I'm not saying "boo hoo teachers work a lot" I don't want sympathy, but people just like you regurgitate this myth that teachers do less work for the same pay, when I'm trying to illustrate that it's probably even. I understand some jobs people feel compelled to work at home, extending their 240 day work schedule longer, or they put in more hours at the office... but teaching requires that every day. If you take nothing else from this post, I'm not trying to advocate teachers work harder than anyone else at their job, but that... they work just as hard. It just happens to be crammed into a shorter time frame. So please, stop regurgitating this common stereotype.
Recently I've been listening to the Introduction to Molecular and Cellular Biology podcast during my commute. It is pretty cool!
Damnit! I went to Duke and live in Michigan. I'm always just a few years too old to get my free iPod.
There are many reasons Michigan is going down the tubes. All the auto industries are leaving, the government is fubar, and taxes are going up. Who in their right might would want to stay here? Every other week there is something on the news about such and such company laying off 1000-10000 workers. Those that are not being laid off are being forced to take pay cuts.
I like Michigan, I have lived here my whole life. Most of my family lives here too. However, if I can't get a good paying job after graduating college, I am going to leave Michigan because I have to make a living.
> Why not spend the money on text books or library books or classrooms or teachers? Or all four?
Well if ya are committed to pissing away $30 mil when you already have a deficit I guess what you say makes sense.
And I want to know how Apple manages to get their product specced in legilation, avoiding bidding them out. Of course Apple, being by far the most expensive vendor, would never win the contract and some no name digital player wouldn't have the buzz for the bill's backers. This stinks of corruption, we need an investigation. At least an investigation would cost less and scuttle the project at least until it finished.
[sarcasm]
You Apple fans should be opposed as well. If every kid is walking around with YOUR beloved fashion accessory just how the hell does your self esteem get boosted by being better than everyone else?
[/sarcasm]
Democrat delenda est
Now there will be more folks seeding the music torrents.
I, for one, welcome our future digitally-outfitted Michander overlords!
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
What better way to ensure your political future than to give trinkets of luxury to the most easily influenced of people?
Those in high school will be eligible to vote in less than 2 electoral cycles years; those in middle school, less than 4 cycles; and those in elementary, less than 8. So within the next few elections, you'll have gained the favor of an entire generation of new Democratic voters.
How crafty.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
There's a saying in Michigan: When the auto industry has a hiccup the state has a heart attack.
At this point the auto industry is having a heart attack, the state is in the ICU, and the state treasury is in the coffin... and politicians want to do this?
What's an Ipod Nano today? The cheapest on amazon is $142.00. Getting those at 10% off is still $127.80.
So we can give the kids laptops for only $52.20 more each? Isn't that more worth it?
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
Next time you go to work (if you work a standard 9-5 job) think about your 15 minute breaks and hour lunch, Teachers don't get that. One half hour lunch and an hour of "prep Time" when students aren't in your room... but this time is used for getting more work done, it's not a break. That's a Full hour a day of "time off" regular full time employees get that teacher's don't, so every 8 days is almost another full day of "work". Over the course of a year is almost 30 days of "work time".
I think you're pretty far off-base. Teachers do get little breaks throughout the day. Kids switch classes, sometimes teachers have a "free" period just like their students. For elementary schools, this is less pronounced, but what teachers do you know that don't give students "in-class" work that requires no intervention from the teacher? No? Did you ever take a test? Quiz? Reading assignment? Group project? What are teachers doing during that time? Sitting at their desks grading, or possibly taking a mental break.
I used to have a math teacher that would teach for 10-20 minutes until everyone understood the concept and then she let us work on our homework. She assigned a lot of homework, but if you were fast/good, you could get somewhere between 50% and 100% of it done in class. I used to think it was great. Now, thinking back on it, what was she doing during the other 25-35 minutes in class? Grading our homework! Brilliant! This way, she could probably blow through 10-15 of the assignments in that time.
The point is, teachers work from 7ish to 3ish, roughly an 8 hour day. However, a lot more work as coaches, after school mentors, good role models for students, prepare great plans, head departments, develop teaching plans that can be applied to other teachers classes etc. Why don't we reward the teachers that do go above and beyond? Companies give raises to their top performers every year. If you're a employee, who works hard and pleases management, you should get promoted to a higher level, even if it means doing the same job, you get more money and more responsibility. Why can't we do this with teachers? We have teachers that are making 75K+ who do a crappy job just because they've been around forever. We have young, enthusiastic teachers who are making 30K, because they haven't put their time in. Promote the good teachers! Give them pay raises that aren't scheduled by a calendar.
What's that? Oh, there's a union involved? Forget everything I just said. Until you break the union, you're screwed from both ends. The union protects itself as an entity and no one else.
Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
Making it here would mean that the money spent would cycle back into the economy, providing a double benefit.
Of course, we would have to conceal the manufacturing facility as a professional sports stadiums.
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/
The bill includes the cost savings by releasing 2400 prisoners. They will Not be given iPods. Instead, each will get a confiscated weapon if they promise to move to Ohio.
Not yet made public is a clause that makes Detroit part of Canada. "We are hoping that the change does Detroit good, moving to a new place can have that effect, you know, and Canada is really very nice,really."
Or maybe we get Toledo, Canada gets Detroit, Wisconsin gets the U.P. and we fight the war of 1812 all over again?
Agreed. I'm also a student (from Iowa) in Michigan, and plan to graduate at the end of this year or beginning of next year. When I do, I'm getting the hell out of here and not looking back. Even if my college offered me a free Masters run, I would be hesitant to pick it up.
Perhaps it comes from living in Flint, but the combination of the idiot government, the attitude of a lot of the people around here, and the roads (yes, they are that bad to be a large reason to leave) that I've seen all around tells me that I'll be much better off in some other state.
someone else followed up but I would add to it:
local school district: 205 days, less 23 days vactaion with possible 2
more if snow days not used = 182. Standard day
8-3
average joe: 52 weeks, less 3 vacation and up to 2 for federal holidays
= 235 days. Standard day 9-5
last checked: 235 > 182 by 29%
Teach gets lunch; many 'average' workers eat at desk or take short (less than one hour) lunch break. Many office workers, in particular, work longer than 9-5 and take work home. So lets give teach an extra 4 hours a day. 9-5ers work at least an extra hour leaving at most 3 hours more and I'm willing to wager at least half of that is made up by 9-5ers as well, nobody works 9-5 if they want to keep their job or get a raise. As noted by the other poster, many teachers have at least one free period a day and other time to do grading/planning/admin work. As to class planning - what about the paid summer time off? Is it unreasonable to expect a teacher to do their class planning then? And how much does the class plan for geometry or freshman english change each year?
Teachers also get two full months of the summer off during which they can work, take classes or generally slack off. Thus one can view any 'shortage' of salary (of which I believe there is little, if any) as partly a lifestyle choice.
But my whole point was not to just single out teachers. The whole system is a waste of resources. We keep spending money because it makes parents some how feel good - not because of a real need. The problems begin at home and end with the school administrators. Instead of continuing to throw money down the pit we have dug maybe we should try going back to a point when things seemed to work reasonably well?
In related news, The RIAA have been seen setting up camp.
-FL
My guess is that we can blame video games, TV, and electronic brain-mushing devices of all sorts.
Kids are designed to interact directly with the world in order that their growing brains can absorb as much useful data as possible. Childhood grants a lot of time to assimilate all of this experiential information, and the drive to collect this experience is built into children as the desire to play.
Now, if you replace the real world with a candy-coated sensory alternative, (aka, a virtual reality 'pod'), then all those thousands of hours the child would normally spend interacting with the world are not just wasted, but actually serve to create bad programming which limits them for the rest of their lives.
The fact that Apple knew enough to so aptly name their creepy little device suggests that they also should know better.
-FL
So, you believe everything you read -- or don't read? Here's the source of all this disinformation -- an unsigned editorial in the Detroit News -- http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2 007704060333. The author does not cite his source for this idea, but cleverly talks about it alongside of other issues and proposals and mentions the name of the Democratic leader of the House to imply he's responsible without actually saying so. You don't really know from this whether anyone actually proposed any such thing, or what support it got. And this is the only reference for the CNET commentary.
If this were really news, why isn't it reported as news by anyone anywhere?
But the Detroit News got you all riled up against the Democrats in Congress, so they achieved their objective. They were counting on you to not dig any deeper, and you kindly obliged. These are the very same tricks that got us where we are in Iraq. You would think we'd be more inquisitive by now about facts and sources.
Is it any wonder this "news" paper, more aptly named The Detroit Rumor Monger, could not survive without merging with the only other paper in town?
Well, I'd say quite a chunk of the 42 million ipods would've been sold in Extra-American [sic] countries, so don't count on most schoolkids having iPods. Never mind the fact that people beyond the 10-18 age group might have bought them as well.
B.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
Now I know why the budget for public libraries here has been cut from next to nothing, to even less. I'm left to wonder what program(s) gets cut to pay for the iTunes subscriptions to go with the iPods.
The shuffle is as accessible to the blind as anything else (the shuffle is what the schools were buying). And why the hell would deaf people need a shuffle anyway?
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Um, I'm not "off Base" because I do know something about this... I am a teacher (IAAT?) I have never worked in a district where teachers get breaks, nor have I ever worked in a district where teachers get more than a half hour for lunch. That's it, one half hour lunch. There IS a specialist period, I referred to it above, it's called prep period. During that time it's hardly a break, I always have a ton of work to do or our team has meetings we go to.
I know you were attempting to discredit my post by citing sterotypes and anecdotal stories of teachers not working, but I don't think you would have gathered from my original post that I AM a teacher (for good reason, I left my post as career neutral as I could). My lord, yes I DO assign a LOT of in class work... what am I doing during that time? Working! When children are working on assignments you think you can just take a break? You must be constantly on the move to help answer questions, offer assistance present information differently with other tools to help some students make sense of information. I've never had a minute to sit still even when students are given in class work or large group projects, there is always work to be done and students to help.
I'm sorry you had 1 or 2 teachers who were not proficient at their jobs, but citing a couple bad people who taught you hardly discredits anything I've said. OBVIOUSLY there are bad teachers, dozens of books have been written about it. I agree to some extent that tenure and unions have helped create an environment that keeps some unqualified professionals in their job. You asked why we can't pay better teachers more. A noble proposal and a few are out there (MN is trying QComp), but all ideas I have heard are ultimately flawed. How do you guage how "good" a teacher is? Test scores? They don't reflect how good a teacher is. Putting in extra hours? better... but suppose someone choses to do their work at home rather than stay in the building, how do you pay them for that? pay for teachers who go above and beyond is a noble idea... but nobody has a clue how to fairly implement it. There is no tangible quality like "making money" liek the private sector you can use to show how good someone is at teaching.
Neither you nor the other reply to this post have actually addressed anything I argued. Teachers work the same amount of time during their year of work as other professions. You might not see it since you don't teach but I've worked both Teaching and Private work and I worked the same... but for different lengths of time during a year. Again, I'm not bragging or asking for sympathy, but I'm tired of this "Teachers got it easy, they don't work". Please, please enough.
I shouldn't expect anything else though, it is too easy to see the Bias this community has against teachers. Every post I've ever made about teaching hardly garners a single upvote and I actually fear for a -troll rating when I talk about working as an educator. If nothing else, I believe my posts are an interesting insight into this topic that apparently people here don't want to read about.
This just in! RIAA lawyers have sent letters threatening to sue to every child in the state of Michigan. Each letter asks the child for $3,000 to prevent a lawsuit due to the intent that they might break the law by downloading music illegally to their free, government-issued iPod. They don't have the iPod yet, and they haven't downloaded any music yet, but the RIAA calculates a 90% probability that they will do so, and they are trying to institute some preventative measures in place before they actually do download illegal files. Any child that fails to pay will be sued in Michigan Court.
Why don't we reward the teachers that do go above and beyond? Companies give raises to their top performers every year.
If you can say that without squirting milk though your nose, I envy your naiveté. Grow up. Especially with the 'unions are inherently evil' comment at the end. The world is not a meritocracy, nor is it an anti-meritocracy. How are you going to fix this? Magically convince all the 'best' teachers that 'unions are evil'? Your post is like a 3 page math proof where all the axioms are anything but. Your proof revolves around a math teacher you used to have. If that isn't a LOL, I don't know what is.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Cobb County, Georgia?!?! Really?! If they gave students iPods, it would probably be with the primary intent to distract them away from actually reading their anti-religious, anti-Christian science textbooks that discuss the "Theory of Evolution."
With Michigan having an income tax, I'm kind of curious about something. Are you a resident of Michigan or another state? If I'm not mistaken, someone who is attending college in one state but has residence in another state (legally speaking) can avoid paying the income tax in that state they're going to college in (but they'd owe tax in the former state if their former state has income tax to begin with, I think). Don't ask me to cite sources, I cannot remember (provided I have this correct).
In reply to something else (not the parent poster), I have this to say...
The federal government is a problem for tax revenue in a lot of states. The federal government heavily taxes and wastes a lot of that money on "defense" related things. This leaves less money for the states and the things they need to accomplish.
Here is what they should consider doing in Michigan. Break up the budget into specific categories, such as education, health care, etc. Then assign specific taxation methods to each one. Let the voters decide on the rates, therefore allowing the voters decide on balancing the budget.
I agree that the Shuffle is less discriminatory, but I do not find the specific product named in TFA and the school objectives quote a more ambitious agenda that shuttling documents and recorded lectures. (And if the latter is really all there is to this, why not just USB thumb drives at half the cost? iTunes remains a stumbling block in that third party products are still necessary for accessibility. The Shuffle has the battery/charging indicator which is visual only, but I agree that is less an obstacle that the one-line display in other MP3 players at that price point. Can you provide a citation as to why you believe this is what the schools were buying, or that just hearsay? At the Bionic Ear Blog you can find an example of a Deaf individual making good use of an iPod. You have probably Steve is hard of hearing himself.
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
Being from Canada... if others think like I do, the USA couldn't pay Canada enough to TAKE Detroit. We like our ozone layer, thanks :P
Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
The idea in ITSELF has potential... however the proposed method of execution is horrible at best.
.LEC for lecture or something. Then... however they plan to have the teachers record these, have them record it in this .lec format.
.lec files, can't cram other music on there, and if the schools require it to be turned in at the end of the year, or on graduation, otherwise they don't pass/graduate... that should stop them from being thrown out. And odds are the kids will keep a close eye on them to hinder them from being stolen by kids being jackasses.
.lec files, but it'd just be way too much effort when the kid can just get a regular cheap mp3 player for like... 40 bucks.
Give kids digital music players. And then what happens? Kids go home, fill it's drive with their band of choice, and listen to music while in class. Or failing that, just listen to music in general. Or go on EBay and sell it. Or just throw it out. They didn't pay for it, what do they care?
NOW... if you actually want this plan to WORK, it'll require a little bit more planning and effort. They'd have to find someone to manufacture an entirely new audio player (or just get new software on some random cheap one), in which it can ONLY play a certain file format. Something like
BAM, most problems solved. Won't sell worth a damn on EBay due to it only playing
Until of course someone writes a program to convert mp3s into
Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
Before we go too far with this story... are there any other sources about this other than a link to the free republic, a rabidly conservative site and an unsigned editorial? I'd really like to know what the details of this case are from reputable sources.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
As a college student it disgusts me to see money "blown" on something like ipods for students. Tuition costs are rising, the budget is a struggle, and our governor would love to get rid of the tax cuts, so the obvious next step must be ipods for students. I think this would run right up there with her idea of giving all kindergarten children laptop computers. The city of Detroit has to close 13 education buildings soon, but technology in the classroom has priority. Now I don't want to sound as if I don't understand what the ultimate goal is, but I think the priorities have gotten severely messed up. I am not concerned with my own well being at this point, but that of everyone to come. Yes, ipods are great, but students need to learn how to communicate and be successful through hard work and studying. Not every want is a need and right now our state needs someone who knows how to help.
Now talk about a late April fools joke. That is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. How does an iPod have anything to do with "learning"
Slashdot response: @#$%^! They'll just use them to listen to vulgar rap music or break them while conducting drug deals! Idiotic government!
Socialism for Slashdotters = Home mortgage interest deduction
Slashdot response: Yay! With the tax savings from my house deduction, I can buy more Sailor Moon episodes! While enjoying this wealth transfer from other taxpayers I'll be plopped in front of my flatscreen TV, which was paid for with an interest-deductible home equity loan! You know, I like to piss and moan when somebody down the food chain gets something, but make no mistake: wise is the government that subsidizes my fantasies about Japanese school girls with supersized eyes!
As a parent, whose kids would directly benefit from this measure if I lived in Michigan, which I don't and never would, please let me assure you that I feel this is the stupidist idea I've seen all day.
Kids don't need iPods, cellphones, or any other little gadgets that they can lose or have stolen.
They need engaging and compelling teachers in front of reasonably-sized classrooms.
They need textbooks and notebooks.
They need vocational training options in addition to college prep options at school.
But they do not need iPods.
If I lived in Michigan, I would be extremely upset about this waste of money. I get what you're saying about how society pays for things that we don't directly use and in turn have things paid for us that we don't bear the entire cost of. But that doesn't mean the government should blindly waste millions of dollars.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Teachers are very well compensated for the work that they do. Once you retire, you still get paid every month until you die.
Those of us in private industry certainly don't get anything like that anymore. In private industry, it's considered a great benefit if your employer matches a little of your 401(k) contribution.
Teachers like to complain, "Boo hoo, I make nothing," but the fact of the matter is, you make more than the median household income, and you have ridiculous benefits.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
You know, it's funny. One of the things that you'll realize if you become a parent someday is just how little control over who your children become.
Case in point: Three of my cousins. One is an insanely successful investment banker. The other is a doctor. The third had, shall we say, "discipline problems" in school (understatement of the year), can't hold down a job for more than 10 seconds, and is just generally a complete screwup. Same parents, same house, same schools, same parenting style. Before you ask, no divorces, deaths, abuse (well, except for the abuse that "screwup" dished out to everybody), or any other "mitigating factors" to point to. The kid (adult now) is just that way.
Everyone is so quick to judge the parents. But they'll learn eventually.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Michigan is a mess in general. This particular problem is just a good illustration of the problem of government education as a whole, as you point out.
Constitutionally Correct
I'm not sure why every kid in Michigan needs an iPod. I think iPods are cool, useful for carrying loads of music, files and podcasts, but I don't see the benefit in making sure every kid has one (for learning purposes). Most people don't use iPods to learn - they use them for watching music videos on the bus to kill time or to have a simple way to play music while exercising. They aren't necessary for the classroom, and I certainly can't see kids using them for an educational end. Kids lose things, break things and get things stolen very easily, so even if there is a small educational benefit lingering in the notion, it's much too economically weak to withstand the possible cons of such an endeavor. If someone wants to give me an iPod and tell me to use it to learn, that's fine, but I probably won't use it to learn. I'll probably spend entirely too much time on party shuffle.
That seems like a waste of money to me. I feel like there is a lot better ways to learn than just sitting in class listening to an ipod. Some ways that worked for me were taking notes, reading, listening to the teachers lecture things of that nature. What would be the point to fit every kid in Michigan with an ipod. 33 million dollars down the drain. That money could be used to better the state of our States economy. Throwin it away to apple and there ipods doesnt seem to be a great idea
Personally, I believe it is a terrible idea to give each kid in Michigan an Ipod using public funds. The bill the Democrats have proposed would put $38 million of public funds towards buying every student in Michigan an Ipod to be used for educational purposes. To raise this money, Democrats have proposed a 4% tax on soda among other things. First of all, there is no guarantee that every student will actually use their Ipod for educational purposes, which would render giving them a free Ipod pointless. When Duke University gave all their Freshmen an Ipod, they obtained mixed results on the educational use of these devices. Secondly, for a state that is suffering from a budget crisis of around 1 billion dollars, it is ridiculous to make taxpayers pay more taxes to fund giving an electronic music device to every kid in Michigan. Parents who are struggling to make ends meet as it is are not going to see paying for another kid to receive an Ipod as something that is worthwhile. With the economy as bad as it is, many people are struggling to make due , and the government forcing them to pay additional taxes for this project is just mind boggling and incredibly idiotic. Furthermore, if the government is set on putting these funds to use, why don't they focus on fixing up schools, especially in Detroit, and making them better equipped to provide a positive learning environment. Also, the funds could be used towards hiring better quality teachers and educators and giving current great teachers a deserved raise. The funds could be used for much better purposes than strapping an already failing economy with a proposal that isn't guaranteed to improve the quality of learning for students.
The idea that the State of Michigan is even considering such an endeavor is a bit maddening. As a resident of Michigan, I am constantly hearing about the financial ruin our state is in. Budget cuts for seemingly everything make the front page of news papers on a regular basis. Spending $38 million dollars on iPods for "educational purposes" is simply unthinkable. As a recent high school graduate, I would be interested to know how these entertainment devices would be used for learning. It is also important to consider how many Michigan students already have iPods or some other MP3 player. I imagine that it is a large percentage. Will students who already own iPods receive another one from the State, and how will the distribution of the iPods be regulated?? How will the State regulate how schools and teachers use the iPods in the classroom. It seems that it will too easily just become a nice present from the State of Michigan, used by youth for only entertainment purposes. There are so many more important ways for the State of Michigan to use that $38 million dollars. Our economy desperately needs a boost. The priority of the state should be to attract Michigan jobs and businesses- not entertain its youth. I truly hope that this just a funny joke made by some Michigan Democratic. iPods today, and tickets to rock concerts tomorrow!!!
they are fools. i guarentee that just about every kid is thinkin, "those suckers", and yeah, of course all the kids are going to put on the "but it's for EDUCATION!" act... they just want the ipod. i would too. how come my state can't be that stupid? i want a free ipod.
~mizzy