New Sony DVDs Not Working In Some Players

An anonymous reader writes "It seems that the most recent DVDs released by Sony — specifically Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness — have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players. This doesn't appear to be covered by the major media yet, but this link to a discussion over at Amazon gives a flavor of the problems people are experiencing. A blogger called Sony and was told the problem is with the new copy protection scheme, and they do not intend to fix it. Sony says it's up to the manufacturers to update their hardware."

Comments

Gee.

[Khaed]

Sony DRM pissing customers off. Why does that sound so familiar?

Re:Gee.

[celticryan]

Nothing new to see here people, keep moving...

Re:Gee.

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if the new DRM's been successful at keeping those movies off the torrent sites. Because if the article's to be believed, it's certainly been successful at pissing off paying customers, and what would be the point of doing that if the movies were still being pirated anyway?

—Tickletaint (forced to post logged-out due to modbombing)

Re:Gee.

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, it didn't seem to take longer...

Re:Gee.

[Anonymous Coward]

If it was just that... You forgot the "convenience" of:
-having to get dressed according to weather
-burn some expensive fossil fuels and put wear on an expensive car
-wasting a half hour in city traffic getting cut all the time -- both ways
-hunting for parking spots
-walk around a store full of unhelpful minimum-wage/comission employees looking for what you want (hopefully you won't impulse buy anything you don't need in the process)
-standing in line for a half hour to pay for it
-find out it doesn't play on your computer either (unless you shell out money for something like AnyDVD)

And possibly things like buying a new DVD player (more $) only to find out (if it even works at all) that there's unskippable previews and such crap (FBI warnings) on the disc too.

Whereas using P2P I can download the thing in mere minutes. No DRM, no protection that prevents playing, no rootkits, no unskippable previews, no FBI warnings -- none of the usual crap. No need to waste time ripping/re-encoding it in mpeg4 to put it on my video server either.

I would rather pay for a un-DRM'ed mpeg4 rip direct download then buy the DVD, but studios won't let us, much less for decent prices. Pirating is easy, fast (~30 seconds to start the transfer then downloads overnight), convenient and often provides you with a better product (at least an un-crippled one) -- and much cheaper too. As a bonus, you're not being treated like a thief by the pirated copy (oh the irony). So people pirate instead.

Re:Gee.

[BronsCon]

This is all a part of the Sony Customer Rage Assurance Program

Sony CRAP, for short

Re:Gee.

[WrongSizeGlass]

Seriously, you literal-minded milksops are destroying the Slashdot I used to know and love. Well, it's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it. And I, for one, have nothing better to do, though you might want to put some of the blame where it deservedly belongs ... squarely on the shoulders of Global Warming.

Re:Gee.

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my roommates bought Casino Royale. To test it, I just grabbed it and ripped it in DVDFab Decrypter (XP inside of VMWare, with a Linux host). It ripped perfectly, including all extras.

Just out of spite I went ahead and ran DVD Shrink on the rip. I'll probably burn a few copies and leave them various places on my way to work tomorrow.

Re:Gee.

[Ledsock]

Indeed. When it didn't work for me, I just launched DVDFab Decrypter, temporarily copied it to my computer, and it played perfectly. Ironic that the only way I could watch a movie I had legally rented was to illegally copy it.

Re:Gee.

[BJH]

Might want to recheck the Digital Millenium Copyright Act if you're living in the States - deliberately breaching copyright protections such as exist on DVDs is indeed illegal.

Re:Gee.

[thegrassyknowl]

Global warming? Won't somebody, please, blame the children?

Re:Gee.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the genius of disc DRM - the rippers bypass it easily while the paying customers can't watch it.

I'm slightly surprised that the incredible disaster of CD DRM hasn't actually resulted in Sony learning anything.

If anyone from Sony is reading, this is what happens when a customer buys a disc with DRM that renders it unplayable. Joe Sixpack simply returns the disc. A N Other Slashdoteer rips the disc and then returns it. Joe Sixpack then uses BitTorrent to download the rip made by A N Other Slashdoteer. Mr Slashdoteer thinks twice about buying another disc, as does Joe Sixpack.

Class action lawsuit anyone?

[scubamage]

Just thinking about it, if they're selling them using the DVD label identifying it as a dvd, doesn't it legally have to be playable in dvd compatible players? If it wasn't, wouldn't that be a bait and switch scam? Just saying, they may have just opened up the floodgates to yet another massive lawsuit.

Re:Class action lawsuit anyone?

[ScrewMaster]

The music studios got in trouble with Phillips on that score: they were told flatly that if it doesn't conform to the published spec they can't use any relevant tradmarks, call it a Compact Disc, use the CD logo, etc. But given how the DVD industry is structured, I doubt much will come of this.

Re:Class action lawsuit anyone?

[TekPolitik]

Just thinking about it, if they're selling them using the DVD label identifying it as a dvd, doesn't it legally have to be playable in dvd compatible players?

This will depend very much on the local laws. In Australia a DVD that fails to play in a significant number of DVD players meets the statutory definition of unmerchantability, which requires goods to be suitable for every purpose for which they are normally bought (unlike other places where they have to be suitable for just one of the purposes for which they are normally bought). This will give the consumer the right to a refund, but won't lead to any penalty. There is also an argument that applying the label "DVD" to the product (or even selling it in a manner that makes it seem like it is a DVD) is misleading conduct for which anybody could apply to the Federal Court to get an injunction to prevent the product from being sold in that way.

Works For Me

[thesaint05]

I have a Pioneer DVD player, maybe second generation. The thing is huge, and probably something like 8 years old. Casino Royale works just fine in it. Granted, that sucker will play just about anything you throw in there, from DivX to DVD +/- RW. Best DVD player I ever bought, and one of the reasons why I still only buy Pioneer DVD players. Makes you wonder about what's in some of the other newer DVD players if my old one can play Casino Royale with no problems...?

Re:Works For Me

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

IINM, it IS the discs - with Sony's ARccOS protection.

Re:Works For Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop using obscure and useless acronyms.
If I'm Not Mistaken... How hard was that? huh?

BRB/TYT/LOL/etc. were useful at a time when we had to "pay" for being online by the hour (or the minute for some) and had 10 private chat windows open, 5 IRC channels, etc.

Did typing IINM save you anything? A couple of keystrokes? Is it that widely used?

No, it doesn't make you look/sound smarter, because there are a LOT of acronyms that are just plain dumb.

Sorry for going off, I didn't mean to shoot directly at you, just the whole acronym thing is driving me up a wall.

Dammit...

[Chouonsoku]

Now I can't make fun of Microsoft for having HD-DVDs that don't play on the Xbox 360.

Re:Dammit...

[kitsunewarlock]

This is slashdot. You can ALWAYS insult microsoft for SOMETHING.

they've solved the piracy problem

[User 956]

It seems that the most recent DVDs released by Sony -- specifically Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness -- have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players.

Yeah, that's the copy protection feature. Hollywood finally figured out that if you can view it, you can copy it. If they simply make the content unplayable, nobody can pirate the movie!

Happened to me

[pionzypher]

I bought Casino Royale two weeks ago. When I got it home, neither my Toshiba in the living room, or the Pioneer in the bedroom would play it.

So I ripped it and returned it.

Re:Happened to me

[D-Cypell]

I've never been able to return a defective DVD, except to get another copy of the same one.

I don't know how it works in the US and elsewhere in the world but in the UK we have consumer protection legislation which says if a product is not 'fit for purpose' then we have a legal right to a full refund.

Occasionally a shop assistant will call over the manager and the manager will try to get 'cute'. In this situation you would be amazed how effective it is to kick up a little (and slightly noisy) fuss. Most managers are not too happy to see such things in their shops, it tends to put the browsing customers off. I dislike this behaviour when the customer is in the wrong, such as demanding a refund for a product that is an incorrect size or they just don't like (there is no legal provision for this, some shops offer a courtesy exchange, an offer to be accepted with gratitude), however, I don't like being screwed out of my rights and am happy to protest loudly when required and entitled.

Should I be unfortunate enough to purchase one of these DVDs... pray you are not managing the shop when I come to return it :)

Re:Happened to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know how it works in the US and elsewhere in the world but in the UK we have consumer protection legislation which says if a product is not 'fit for purpose' then we have a legal right to a full refund.

Yeah, we used to have that in the U.S. We also used to have fair use rights.

The sad thing is -

[ditoa]

that this new copy protection system will not stop the DVD from being ripped and will only effect people who legally bought the DVD.

It is things like this that make me cautious about buying media from Sony these days. I have no problem with buying DVDs however one of the reasons I buy a DVD is that I know it will work perfectly in any DVD I wish to buy (unlike XviD rips from BitTorrent or Usenet) however apparently this isn't true anymore so DVD is now no better than a rip downloaded from the internet.

It is a shame that the companies are worsening their products with these copy protection systems to help fight piracy when all they end up doing is ruining it for the people who want to buy DVDs.

One thing that I have wondered about for a while is how many DVD rips online originate from retail DVDs? I would have thought the majority (if not all) came from pre-release copies as the DVD rips are normally several weeks (if not months) ahead of a retail DVD release.

Prevents casual "rent and burn"

[ConfusedSelfHating]

This copy protection prevents most people from renting/borrowing a DVD and making a copy of it. Until people download the latest software for cracking it. This is mostly targetting non-technical people who were given DVD Shrink by a friend.

There will be copies of the DVD available on the Internet, because someone will crack the protection. All it takes is one copy on the Internet to ensure that anyone on a peer to peer network can get a copy.

Sony is risking alienating a large number of people to stop a small number of pirates. Not just a small number of pirates, but the non-technical pirates. They are also annoying Walmart, Blockbuster, BestBuy and any other retailer who sells their DVDs. Who are the consumers going to complain to? The retailers.

Oddly, this could cost them money even if you ignore retail backlash. Companies which rent DVDs to the consumer, purchase DVDs based on rental demand. If someone rents and burns a DVD, the movie company is pissed, but it still increases rental demand. Higher rental demand, increases sales of the DVDs to the companies who rent them. If someone finds they can't rent and burn, they probably will just download the image from BitTorrent rather than buy the DVD. Not to mention the people who can't play the Sony DVDs, they'll want a free version which actually works.

Sony has the right to put any copy protection scheme they want on their DVDs, as long as it maintains compatibility. If you sell someone a product which is designed not to work properly on their DVD player, you better tell them first. Even if the consumer was willing to get firmware updates, do you think the manufacturers want to start sending out discs and supporting consumers through the update?

Re:Prevents casual "rent and burn"

[guruevi]

Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness

There you go, now stop buying those darn DVD's and complaining that someone will crack the copy protection anyway. We KNOW, before it's even in stores you can get full DVD rips (yes, you can even get the full 4,7G download's if you look hard enough). And if I buy a DVD that doesn't play in my machine, without going through stuff like MacTheRipper or so (Johnny English for example) I return it to wherever I bought it and say it won't play (I take my PowerBook with me) and demand a refund.

Re:Again?

[sokoban]

There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.

ARCCOS

[Anonymous Coward]

These discs feature Sony's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS_Protection ARCCOS, which doesn't work with some DVD players and cannot be ripped by any program under Linux.

Re:ARCCOS

[Kjella]

You got to love how it comes full circle - disks with corrupt sectors? This reminds me of some floppy protection schemes from the 1980s. Also how the page lists half a dozen tools that'll get around it. If there's one thing worse than DRM, it's when they try to "fix" a broken system by making non-standard discs which break normal players while the patching tools get updated to work around it. Same thing with the "CDs" which don't play in CD players. The cat is out of the bag. The horse has left the barn. The genie is out of the bottle. The referee has blown the whistle. The fat lady has sung. He's dead, Jim. You're flogging a dead horse. Are there any more ways to say it? It's OVER. Get some therapy for your denial issues and let it be.

Re:Stranger than Fiction

[larry bagina]

You've got a girlfriend?

Stranger than fiction, indeed!

Re:Bait and Switch

[miskatonic alumnus]

Just draw a line around the perimeter of Washington DC with a magic marker. That'll fix it.

Fancy a laugh

[theeddie55]

Ive got casino royale and having read this decided to try it on all the dvd players in my house (i live in a student house of computer scientists and engineers) so having tried it on going on for a dozen different players, the only player ive found that wont play it is a... guess which manufacturer (for those who dont want to play, its sony)

Re:Bait and Switch

[Kjella]

Would that be the blast radius? If so, you forgot step 2.

The best comment from the blog entry

[ween14]

I love this quote right at the top of the entry about Sony:

they have in fact made their latest releases unplayable on some DVD players, including my Sony DVP-CX995V DVD player. I don't think we even need another sign of the incompetence of Sony then the fact that they break their own hardware with their ill-conceived protection mechanisms. Obviously Sony divisions no longer talk to one another about what they are doing. This is a shame considering that communication between units was how Sony invented one of their most profitable items ever...the Walkman.

left hand: make decent hardware...Profit!
right hand: break hardware made by left hand...don't tell left hand about it....Profit?

Re:That's the problem

[EvanED]

Maybe I'm wrong, but like some "CDs" in the past that incorporated some copy protection and couldn't carry the CD logo/seal any longer on the cover, wouldn't the same thing apply here? Can Sony legimitately still call this thing a DVD anymore without being sued for fraud?

Perhaps the DVD-Video logo, but it's still a DVD. You can get software on DVDs. You can't play them in your video player, but they are still DVDs.

Actually, it's the same thing with CDs. CDs with copy protection are still CDs; they just can't carry the CDDA (CD Digital Audio) logo.

Re:Consumer Math

[WeeBit]

Brilliant. Is it time to put Sony to bed with SCO yet? Hell NO, we don't need those two making babies!