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Digg.com Attempts To Suppress HD-DVD Revolt

fieryprophet writes "An astonishing number of stories related to HD-DVD encryption keys have gone missing in action from digg.com, in many cases along with the account of the diggers who submitted them. Diggers are in open revolt against the moderators and are retaliating in clever and inventive ways. At one point, the entire front page comprised only stories that in one way or another were related to the hex number. Digg users quickly pointed to the HD DVD sponsorship of Diggnation, the Digg podcast show. Search digg for HD-DVD song lyrics, coffee mugs, shirts, and more for a small taste of the rebellion." Search Google for a broader picture; at this writing, about 283,000 pages contain the number with hyphens, and just under 10,000 without hyphens. There's a song. Several domain names including variations of the number have been reserved. Update: 05/02 05:44 GMT by J : New blog post from Kevin Rose of Digg to its users: "We hear you."

233 of 1,142 comments (clear)

  1. I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you're one of the endless little "Slashdot is dead, go to digg" trolls that reply to stories every now & again, I (and the rest of slashdot) would like to say: "Fuck You".

    Your wonderful little Digg isn't looking so wonderful now - is it?

    In comparison to Digg's censorship, slashdot has the hex key as a story tag.

    1. Re:I'd like to say... by Marcion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All credit to the song, its quite good actually, I am gonna set it as my ringtone I think.

      Who'd have thought, they would use all that Web 2.0 wisdom of the crowds stuff to hide the fact they censor everything.

      kdawson, and the old Taco himself, we salute you.

    2. Re:I'd like to say... by The+Woodworker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, I was on Digg over a year ago and it was a great tech news site. It's popularity has now killed it, with spammers submitting so many stories and comments that I don't pay much attention any more. Once a site reaches a critical mass, it's only good for advertising as everyone tries to game the system for their financial benefit. I've been coming to slashdot since 97, and the same is true. Same with Google search results. No where near as good as they used to be.

      --
      Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll wipe out the species.
    3. Re:I'd like to say... by Marcion · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hello, I can fix it for you. At the back of the computer, there is a socket called the Ethernet socket, pull the wire out and go sit it a dark room. Everything will be fine.

    4. Re:I'd like to say... by Sancho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's pretty crappy, because according to the DMCA, they only have to take down content which they are specifically notified of. There's no way that the MPAA is keeping up with the storm on Digg, so it's got to be the admins being proactive. When you start censoring, you start losing some of the protections that the DMCA affords you. I doubt this will be the end of Digg, but if the MPAA got ballsy enough, they might try to shut the site down, since it's clearly impossible to keep all that user-submitted content off of the front page.

    5. Re:I'd like to say... by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, this is just great! Thanks a lot guys! We thought we'd give this a fair run, see how things went, etc. I think we've been fair, very patient, but after the stunts pulled today I'm afraid we've spoken to our lawyers and we have to pull the plug. You only have yourselves to blame. Thanks for helping us test the system. So long.

      - Al Gore

      +++AH*$*&*^!NA(*$&!(HDSF....[ NO CARRIER ]

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    6. Re:I'd like to say... by CokoBWare · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't stand it when people throw the "terrorist" label around. No matter what the cause, IMHO it's irresponsible. Period. When bombs start going off, then we can start looking at terrorism as a possible motive. Otherwise, forget it.

      Let's all refrain from over hyping this more than it needs to be...

    7. Re:I'd like to say... by Cylix · · Score: 4, Funny

      In the spirit of a new fad...

      Where is your digg now?

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    8. Re:I'd like to say... by endersshadow7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While I usually check both (/. for more the tech news, and Digg out of pure boredom), I think that the most humorous part of this whole thing is that this key was released February 7th. It took almost 3 months for it to explode...that just seems very slow...

      Just seems like Digg got taken over with by 12 year olds that are posting the key just because they were told not to. What'd be nice is somebody with an actual understanding of AES to write a fully functional libaacs for this. Doom9 has some primitive tools up and running. I'd do it, but I don't have an HDDVD or BluRay player...anybody willing to donate?

      The funniest part is that if the MPAA hadn't sent a DMCA notice at all in the first place, this would've just stayed on the Doom9 forums for a while and been a fringe thing...but now it's all over the place. Behold, the power of you, Diggers. Now stop being morons about the whole thing.

    9. Re:I'd like to say... by thegnu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm the last one to defend the MPAA, but the only reason for sharing this number is so that cheapskates can get free movies. Right?

      Not quite. The issue is wrapped up in the temper tantrum the RIAA and MPAA have been throwing for several years now that their distribution model is getting messed up. They have always used strong-arm tactics to manufacture a monopoly in a genre that is replete with passion and creativity--I'm talking about art. Of course, the MPAA and the RIAA don't protect the artist, or protect the consumer. They protect the BUSINESS MODEL. Their argument that if people copy media, it makes it harder to get media, has collapsed in the past few years, and they've started randomly suing people.

      In fact, look into how much music we would never get to hear but for the industrious hobbyists and fanatics keeping the original vinyls of their favorite music in pristine condition. There are tons of classic recordings that record labels are sitting on, and if I were any one of those dead artists, I would rise up from my grave and unleash my motherfucking zombie face on those cocksuckers. It's unfair.

      So, to the conclusion. The encryption keeps people from making backups of their movies. HD-DVDs are not archival quality, I'm betting, and I WILL NOT replace my fucking media at a "reasonable price" (retail, according to the MPAA and RIAA). When you share information that has a fair use, and you get threatened with legal action by a corporate behemoth, sometimes people rise up and defend you. If reason, logic, pleading, conscience, legal action, and appealing to their better nature have failed, why not try the million flies in the ointment method?

      Oh, but if you copy an album, the artist doesn't get his 80 cents.

      PS: It still fucks me off that the RIAA is trying to claim ownership of the fucking royalties to my music. Really.

      --
      Please stop stalking me, bro.
    10. Re:I'd like to say... by chebucto · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Yes, but:

      Slashdot is better than digg post-popularity. The only two clear incidents of censorship on slashdot that I remember - the scientology posts that were deleted, and the thread about story moderation - are both quite exceptional; the scientology censorship was done with as much publicity and openeness as could be expected, and the story-moderation censorship was (presumably) done by a now-disbanded and dishonoured editor (Michael Sims, 'Nazi Editor').

      The point being: Slashdot has retained much or all of its independence; it survived the surge of popularity only to be bought up by a - as far as I can tell - benign corporate overlord, losing none of its independence and none of its verve (as much as the latter may seem to be lacking).

      Digg, meanwhile, seems to be a short-lived exercise in user-defined content that has devolved into a juvenile comment squad and an editorship that is apparently willing to practice censorship for the basest of reasons.

      --
      The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    11. Re:I'd like to say... by JudasBlue · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm the last one to defend the MPAA, but the only reason for sharing this number is so that cheapskates can get free movies. Right? Or use your legally purchased DVD's on your homebrew video server maybe? Or back them up?

      idjit.

      --

      7. What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence.

    12. Re:I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I also gave Digg a try when it first came out, and what ruined it for me was the obvious lack of maturity. For example, right now the front page of Digg is completely full of "OMFGZ!!111! DIGG PWNED" articles.

      The lack of maturity also lets a lot of articles that aren't really interesting get to the front page. What's "new" or interesting for a 13 year old isn't usually new or interesting for everyone else.

      To make it worse, when I tried it again a few months ago they had modified the comment moderation system a bit, and people who went against the group-think were heavily modded down, regardless of if they were correct. On Digg you can say "The sky is blue", link to pictures, and have a dozen references, and still get modded down if the "group" says the sky is green.

      It's like all the bad of Slashdot, but an order of magnitude worse. All for the slight possibility of seeing a rare interesting article before it reaches Slashdot. No thanks.

    13. Re:I'd like to say... by Score+Whore · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Nope, sorry, the results tantrum over the troll post is still in place. I know because I don't get mod points.

    14. Re:I'd like to say... by Sancho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right, but this isn't copyrighting. This is a number used in circumvention of "effective copy controls." Lots of people have made this mistake in web publications.

      Of course, you can also argue that a DVD contains one really, really long number, and thus should not be copyrightable. I tell those people that they're full of shit and move on.

    15. Re:I'd like to say... by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's hardly terrorism either, you twit.

    16. Re:I'd like to say... by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a number used in circumvention of "effective copy controls."

      No, this is just a number. Only a number. To use something to circumvent copy controls it has to have functions or methods associated with it (e.g. be executable computer code). This shouldn't qualify.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    17. Re:I'd like to say... by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, "cyber-terrorism" is not terrorism. It's a politico-speak term coined as part of a power-grab to rationalize more invasive methods of investigating internet-based crimes.

      In fact, calling it a DDOS is disingenuous at best. Digg's entire concept is centered around user-posted content. The problem they have now is that their users are at odds with thier corporate overlords, and they picked thier side. It's not a DDOS. At worst, it's teenage "information wants to be free" mob-wankery. Digg invited this conflict with thier business model. Hardly an "innocent bystander."

      Just about the only thing you got right is that they are accomplishing nothing, but the rest of your mealy-mouthed double-speak is pure bullshit.

    18. Re:I'd like to say... by shark72 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Or use your legally purchased DVD's on your homebrew video server maybe? Or back them up? idjit."

      Sure, in the sense that those bongs in the head shops could be used to smoke tobacco. In fact, the employees of said establishments will swear up and down that that's exactly what they're for.

      Of all my friends, I know not a single person who's built a "homebrew video server," nor have I ever met anybody who's had a problem with scratching a DVD. On the other hand, I have many friends who enjoy acquiring free movies with BitTorrent.

      In short, let's not be disingenuous here: we all know what the primary application will be for the copy protection crack.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    19. Re:I'd like to say... by bhima · · Score: 2, Funny

      I didn't get mod points for at least three years after the Gore / Bush election. Anyway on the forth year I sent a single email and I started getting them again. I have no idea what sort of algorithm is used to decide who gets mod points and how often (and I've never looked at the code) but I think there's something hinky with it.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    20. Re:I'd like to say... by wordsthatendinq · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it's late and i might be saying something really obvious... but i've convinced myself that slashdot is better because it has been around for so long. the user base has mostly been around for very long and is familiar with the system as well as what possibilities exist to exploit and troll it. ie, it is stable and i always know what i'm getting.

      i don't think digg will forever be a forum for immature posts, but it is still young and what we see now may not be its equilibrium state. though, i sure wouldn't mind if its homepage were always as hilarious as it is right now.

    21. Re:I'd like to say... by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Digg is an innocent, law abiding bystander, and the attackers are the twits. They are accomplishing nothing.

      Actually, in this case, the breakdown is more like: 1) the "Intellectual Property" laws are certifiably and demonstrably insane, 2) greedmongering abusers of the said laws demand that digg becomes their henchman-by-proxy, 3) digg complies, 4) users revolt, 5) now digg capitulates and suddenly is about to fight its would be master.

      So digg was not an "innocent, law abiding bystander" anymore then some guards at Abu Ghraib were "just following lawful orders" (an extreme case of the same principle). Furthermore the "attackers" managed to beat digg into growing a pair and fighting against some of the "intellectual property" scam, thus standing up for what its owners were posturing to be all about, ergo the "twit attackers" accomplished quite a bit, it would seem to me.

    22. Re:I'd like to say... by TheoMurpse · · Score: 4, Funny

      done by a now-disbanded and dishonoured editor (Michael Sims, 'Nazi Editor')
      I'm glad this has finally been brought up, because it's been bugging me -- I never saw an announcement on /. about his departure. I just noticed one day that he hadn't posted any stories in a while. I wondered about whether the Censorware stuff caught up with him finally.

      Google turns up nothing except for obvious fake explanations of what happened involving multiple acts of sodomy and a few members of the Free Software Foundation :/

      Wikipedia doesn't have anything either. Can someone just tell me what the heck happened?
    23. Re:I'd like to say... by Spikeles · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ah, more people who don't read articles or do research.. Google was indeed sent a cease and desist letter and can be found here ( dated April 17, 2007 )

      --
      I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
    24. Re:I'd like to say... by drix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, this is not the first time I have heard someone say something to the effect of, "do whatever you want in your bedroom, but you'd better not suck someone's cock on my lawn/porch/dinner table/cul-de-sac." Who are these gay suburban exhibitionists you people are so afraid of? The only time I ever saw open air fellatio was at the Folsom Street Fair, and that's, well, not a typical setting. I have a bunch of gay friends, and they are all a lot more conservative than, say, the 200 sorority whores I dormed with freshmen year. So just come off it.

      As for the pot thing, maybe it's because I lot of people like to smoke pot? (I do.) Consider yourself in the boring, prudish minority on this one, bro. "Do dope and cook your brain" sounds like something my grandfather would say. Not the one who's still alive. The one who died 20 years ago. When he was 90. What is your hangup? It's not as if the smoke is coming through the monitor screen or something.

      --

      I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
    25. Re:I'd like to say... by catmistake · · Score: 2

      anymore then some guards at Abu Ghraib were

      Wow, you must really be pissed at Digg.

      Digg has no power. Its possible they could have "grown" some and legally fought against the litigation when it comes... but... they're a business, not some moral heroes or some cult religion. They are a business. They want to make money, not lose it in $500/hr increments.

    26. Re:I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah but you forget there is a kind of "censorship" every day on slashdot because the stories chosen and disgarded are those chosen and disgarded by the editors, not you. And frankly, as many of you in the slashdot community know, some of the editors really suck. Others are ok, others are good. But the point is, you read what they want you to read, you submit to their idea of what is cool. Whereas on digg, if you turn off or ignore the sections you don't like you get better tech news, better political news and better comedy.

      The sites are fundementally different in their day to day operation and I argue, should digg return to normality or not be legally blasted out of existence that it is better.

      That said, moderation and commentary on slashdot is usually better. But I find digg more appealing because even if the discussion and the filtering of that discussion isn't as good, it's on stories that don't even make it to slashdot or have made it their first.

      May both communities continue, and both be free of censorship. Kevin Rose is a dick for allowing that to happen. Michael Sims was a dick, and sorry Zonk, but you need to be fired.

      best wishes to all the readers and submitters and moderators who are the real backbone of Internet discussion and will be here whatever the name or format of the site.

    27. Re:I'd like to say... by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of all my friends, I know not a single person who's built a "homebrew video server, ...

      I know (personally) an engineer who did. Although we are speaking of DVDs rather then HD-DVDs (and quite compressed rips at that). It contains a pile of Disney and other kids stuff. The thing came about when he got annoyed at the horrid mess his kids managed to create with their DVDs (including scratching the mirror side) and also inspired by the observation that they seem to enjoy the same movie over and over and over and ... you get the idea. Hence the MythTV box with a remote. Kids are ecstatic and he has no more trouble with their lost/damaged disks.

    28. Re:I'd like to say... by monkease · · Score: 2, Informative

      What on earth does the internet owe to you?


      You want to do dope and cook your brain, go right ahead but do it in private.

      & that's just the thing: we totally would. But even there you get in trouble. Like it or not, the internet is a fine way to start a political debate. Many of the usual routes are closed to concerned parties on this issue. http://www.changetheclimate.org/campaigns/02_18_04 /pressrelease2.php

    29. Re:I'd like to say... by thanksforthecrabs · · Score: 5, Funny

      A Scientology article was censored? What did the person say -- that Scientology is a looney, brain-washing cult that sucks people of their money? And that the cult's highest-profile member/actor recently married a beard again in an attempt to resurrect his career? I'm not saying that stuff is fact...just asking if it was said. Big diff.

    30. Re:I'd like to say... by shaitand · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Slashdot has better overall content but that is largely because it has been taken over by a different class of trolls. Anyone who reads through Slashdot comments can tell you that there are no if's about it, there are definitely corporate paid propaganda posters from large tech companies.

      Anytime you have negative PR coming to a large tech company (particularly software companies and the larger the more prevelent the problem) there are dozens of posts defending the company in the comments here that could have come right off an official press release.

      If you have ever attended the sales seminars and meetings from these companies you will recognize their material being used both defensively and offensively all over Slashdot. The biggest companies respond to highly moderated negative posts about them even if the story isn't about them. It's pretty clear these companies have full time Slashdotters.

      I once put an intentional grammar error in my sig to catch grammar trolls and forced them into ACdom. Maybe now I should do a similar hunt for corporate shills and list the ones I've found in my journal.

    31. Re:I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Someone posted a copyrighted portion of the scientology bible (or whatever they call it). Because it was copyrighted material, and a seemingly serious legal threat was issued, the offending comment was removed.

      http://slashdot.org/yro/01/03/16/1256226.shtml

    32. Re:I'd like to say... by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow, you must really be pissed at Digg.

      Hypocritical stances do piss me off.

      Digg has no power. Its possible they could have "grown" some and legally fought against the litigation when it comes... but... they're a business, not some moral heroes or some cult religion. They are a business. They want to make money, not lose it in $500/hr increments.

      The problem is that digg tried to be a business based on certain ethos. You can't have it both ways, to project "radical", "anti-estabilishment" etc image to create your business and then fold like a cheap suit as soon as your revenue is threatened by one of the very members of the "estabilishment" and then expect that your audience wont notice.

      So this pathetic "But we only tried to make moneeeeey! Waaah! We said all those things to make money! We meant none of it! Mommy! They are trying to take away my moneeeey! Waaah!" excuse is likely to achieve the flight properties of a ton of bricks with their audience.

    33. Re:I'd like to say... by apostrophesemicolon · · Score: 3, Funny

      okay man, do NOT ever Australia.. okay? Something bad will happen if you Australia!!!

    34. Re:I'd like to say... by Fordiman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Can you copyright a math problem? 'Cos if so, then I own the below.

      2^6 x 5 x 19 x 12,043 x 216,493 x 836,256,503,069,278,983,442,067 = x

      Solve for X and express in big-endian hexidecimal.

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    35. Re:I'd like to say... by inode_buddha · · Score: 2, Funny

      Here, have some coffee.

      --
      C|N>K
    36. Re:I'd like to say... by WebCrapper · · Score: 2, Informative

      You know, I've stayed away from DIGG for all of the same reasons. I've even had my own blog posts end up on DIGG (I didn't post them) and, even though it was an opinion piece with a lot of people commenting that they agreed, the DIGG community modded the story as incorrect information (this causes a red banner to appear on DIGG) with a lot of comments from people I'd obviously pissed off (or on?).

      After that, I paid attention to the main page until I kept seeing the "OMFGZ!!111! DIGG PWNED" articles show up every 20 minutes. This annoys me about as bad as a Wiki being "hacked" by some idiot kid.

      But now, I don't pay attention to DIGG, even if one of my blog posts gets dug - don't care anymore.

    37. Re:I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Just shut the fuck up and live your life quietly. Don't push on others."

      Congratulations! You have won the Slashdot Hypocrisy Award of 2007, given to the post exhibiting the most blatant hypocrisy while inexplicably being modded +5 (albeit temporarily).

      To pull off such a post requires the straightest face and the greatest lack of internal consistency. For this, you have earned our praise.

      Again, congratulations; the future holds great things for you. Who knows, you might successfully run for Congress with such a puritanical, gay-bashing, drug-fearing attitude. That, combined with the inability to see what's wrong with you telling other people to stay out of your business... well, let's just say you couldn't have won this award without both.

    38. Re:I'd like to say... by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But they can't win. Even though the law and the MPAA/RIAA is wrong.

      If everyone simply folds, MPAA/RIAA are indeed guaranteed to win. A large number of high profile cases highlighting the more illogical parts of the "law" is the only way to get the politicos to start weighing RIAA bribes vs public outrage.

      They have a right to provide for themselves, and a right to keep what they earned. They have no moral obligation to tilt this windmill, and lose their shirts doing it.

      They painted themselves in a corner. This is the result of their efforts at setting certain expectations of their behaviour. Now they can either fold and keep what they earned, but with the penalty of wide defections and disdain of their former audience (possibly destroying digg) or to fight, possibly losing and thus possibly destroying digg. A quandry of their own making.

      Hopefully, yes. I'd really like to see the audience that is revolting right now go away.

      In other words you would like those who made the site's success possible to the point that a larger audience became involved to go away after it became apparent that they have been callously used, right?

    39. Re:I'd like to say... by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yes... and I really have to work on my abuse. Where did you study? Was it... Digg? I think I know your work. Go ahead and add hypocrisy to your list of character faults. That's a good boy.

      I really don't think its ALL the users that are at odds. Sure, everyone has a beef with the RIAA/MPAA. But not everyone thinks so much of themselves that they throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way. Apparently it's enough of them that it's causing them a problem. Maybe that's what they get for building themselves a user-base from the never-had-a-fulltime-job crowd.

      Maybe I got on late... but all I saw was the same non-information over and over, and claims that it was free speech and shouldn't be censored. That's also a completely irrelevant to the fact that you're trying to make it out to be something far more sinister than it is.

      But that really isn't speech. Just like money isn't speech, and threats aren't speech. When were you appointed, Justice Catmistake?

      Call it double-talk if you don't see the difference, and fire another one off at me. TIA Well, you do make it so easy. Maybe if you'd tone down the bullshit hyperbole and stuck to facts...
    40. Re:I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Be careful that you're not simply writing off other people's opinions as propoganda because you don't agree with them. That could make you... eek... a republican.

    41. Re:I'd like to say... by VON-MAN · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You tell them, catmistake! And when you're met the girls I'll introduce you to something even better!

      *women*

      But please, I'll do the talking.

    42. Re:I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you Australia too much, you'll grow hair on your palms and then you'll go blind. At least, that's what they told me.

      Doesn't take much to stop Australia, after a while you get USAd to it.

    43. Re:I'd like to say... by Piquan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of all my friends, I know not a single person who's built a "homebrew video server," nor have I ever met anybody who's had a problem with scratching a DVD.

      I'm Piquan. I meet both of those criteria. I've also never downloaded a movie from the Internet*. Pleased to meet you.

      * Except some legal ones.

    44. Re:I'd like to say... by iminplaya · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fine! Quit locking them up for it. Then we'll shut up. Until that happens you can forget about it. "No justice, no peace"!!!

      --
      What?
    45. Re:I'd like to say... by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does everyone include these "valuable" users who "made the site a success?" Again, there is no obligation on their part to do anything. If they stood up, yes, heros, win or lose. But not being a hero doesn't make one a coward.

      Their only "obligation" is, and always was, to click on the ads on digg (thus generating vast majority of digg's revenue) and participate in the digg discussions. That's it. They are the audience to whom digg owners were posturing in order to attract a following, not the money-making owners themselves.

      aha! You "expect!" There's yur trouble. Try not expecting. You'll lead a much happier life.

      By this token you should give up a notion of expecting to recieve goods for your money in a store, or such trifles as a salary for your labours.

      Digg's users are not entitled to anything. Why would they be? Because they hit the site, drove up the advertising revinue?

      Pretty much. If they were led to believe that the site represents certain ethos, only to be disappointed, they will do what they can: i.e. express their anger and leave, thus depriving digg of much of its revenue.

      At what cost to them?

      Non sequitur alert. The fact that the user's only "sacrificed" a click or a view does not in any way reduce the monetary value of the ads to their marketers.

      You know... a sucker is born every minute. Maybe the users that clicked on ads and bought something are suckers. The ones that expect something for moving a finger up and down are delusional.

      A lot of people are apparently "delusional" when told to expect that they will get rewarded in some way for some actions, small or large, by those who made such promises, explicitely or otherwise. I am led to believe that most of commerce world-wide is based on participation of such "delusional suckers".

    46. Re:I'd like to say... by DamonHD · · Score: 2, Funny

      The Folsom Street Fetish Fair? http://gallery.hd.org/_c/places-and-sights/US-CA-S an-Francisco-Folsom-Street-fetish-fair-dancer-in-s uspended-cage-tweaked-mono-1-DHD.jpg.html Yes, definitely an eye-opener! But actually I saw nothing 'lewd' on the street at all. Rgds Damon

      --
      http://m.earth.org.uk/
    47. Re:I'd like to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      i for one am sick of these heterosexuals pushing their lifestyle in everyone's face. Pictures of their "husband" or "wife" on their desk at work where everyone has to see it, constantly mentioning mentioning them to co-workers when talking during lunch breaks, even bringing in not just photos but the actual CHILDREN that are the consequence of their heterosexual activities.

      Look, it's your business if for some reason you have no self-control and find it necessary to put your private parts into the private parts of a member of the opposite sex... it's none of my business if for some strange reason you find it necessaary to do that... but keep it and the infant results of your "lifestyle choice" hidden at home and stop being so blatant about it.

    48. Re:I'd like to say... by Photo_Nut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's an obvious explanation for the "corporate trolling" -- my generation which was in college when /. became popular, and we graduated from High School and College. Lots of us got recruited at places like Apple, IBM, MS, etc. It's kinda like, you might be able to tell in general when or how someone got broadband by if they use Friendster vs MSN Spaces vs MySpace vs... Or if they use AOL or Hotmail or GMail or MSN or Yahoo.

      Computer nerds grow up to become corporate shills. Would you rather spend years at an unknown startup or game company, slaving away 24-7 on a product which may not succeed, or would you like an 8+ hour flexible time job with a nice $80K paycheck + benefits? If you had the latter, you might take a little pride in the company paying you, and you might know something that is being misconstrued and want to correct the /. public's interpretation of the FUD that others are spreading. Of course, you might just have the stupid my-company-can-do-no-evil blinders on, too.

      I have friends at places including Adobe, Apple, Amazon, IBM, Google, Microsoft, etc. They all read /., although many have also moved on. In time, the new popular places for geeks to hang out will be overrun with the next generation of corporate shills and OSS zealots. I've been called both by my friends at different points in time. :)

    49. Re:I'd like to say... by Builder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, we're not friends I guess, but I have a homebrew video server. I've got a NAS in the attic that everything (CDs, DVDs, etc.) gets ripped to. I've then got an Xbox (old style) under my TV that acts as the media centre. It's hooked up to the TV with component cables, and to the hi-fi with old style RCA cables. We watch DVDs and listen to music through that instead of moving media around.

      I also sync from the storage in the roof to my iPod for the car instead of managing a separate set of playlists for that.

      Why should ANY of what I am doing here be illegal ?

    50. Re:I'd like to say... by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think one has to shut up for a while, I usually get them after a vacation. Never got any mod points, then suddenly after a week of absence, there they were. Maybe as a lure to come back for those that used to post a lot and got fed up with never getting any mod points. :)

      It's been that way since then. Whenever I return from working double shifts to hit a milestone for a week, some mod points were waiting for me.

      (And no, that's no attempt to get you silenced, that's just how it "works" for me)

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    51. Re:I'd like to say... by wamatt · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can't stand it when people throw the "terrorist" label around. No matter what the cause, IMHO it's irresponsible. Period. When bombs start going off, then we can start looking at terrorism as a possible motive. Otherwise, forget it. Oh god no. The truth has blinded us. I think we may be dealing with a "terrorist" here boys. Right here in our very own slashdot.
    52. Re:I'd like to say... by edittard · · Score: 3, Funny

      there is a kind of "censorship" every day on slashdot because the stories chosen and disgarded are those chosen and disgarded by the editors, not you.
      That's not really censorship. It would be censorship if they were making the decision based on the contents of the stories, but an obvious prerequisite for that is missing.
      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    53. Re:I'd like to say... by asninn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Make a new account? One of my old ones was slapped down with what appeared to be a permanent -1 modifier to all of my comments after I complained about the site's administration (Taco in particular) once too often; I left Slashdot for a few years, but ultimately came back because the comments, generally speaking, tend to be quite interesting. In retrospect, both leaving at that point and coming back now where exactly the right decisions, and I got my new account back to Excellent karma within about 5 days, too. The only downside is that I lost my low(er) UID, but ultimately, that's just a meaningless number, anyway.

      My opinion about Slashdot-the-site and Slashdot-the-site's-management still hasn't changed all that much (although the amount of dupes seems to have gone down considerably, at least), but Slashdot-the-community is still nice, and in some ways even seems to have changed for the better - I suppose that all the trolls etc. moved on to Digg (so this comment is actually on-topic now, too! :)).

      --
      butter the donkey
    54. Re:I'd like to say... by ZaMoose · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Try "demagogue in general". Fingers-in-ears la-la-la-I-can't-hear-you behavior is certainly not the exclusive province of the right wing. See Black, Lewis and the hypocrisy of the Greens, for instance. "Cars run on cognitive dissonance" indeed.

      --
      I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
    55. Re:I'd like to say... by iogan · · Score: 4, Funny

      If any of you (corporate shills) are reading, let me know if there's a job opening sometime... since all I do is read slashdot all day I might as well get paid.

    56. Re:I'd like to say... by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyone who reads through Slashdot comments can tell you that there are no if's about it, there are definitely corporate paid propaganda posters from large tech companies.
      Care to give some examples?
      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    57. Re:I'd like to say... by Aceticon · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've been faced with the "pot is bad" people before.

      They absorve all that crap on the media about how smoking pot is dangerous and pot-smoking people flood the hospitals and waste taxpayers money, and drive dangerously and are all junkies (picture: wasted crackhead types).

      Now, i've lived in Holland, i know people that smoke pot and i can openly admit it.

      When i ask any "pot-haters" if they know somebody that smokes pot, it turns out none of them does (surprise, surprise). At that point i point out that i know people that smoke pot and they're all absolutly normal people with jobs, families and you wouldn't be able to spot them on the street from everybody else. At that point they go silent.

      As i see it, the reason why some Governments are winning the disinformation war about soft drugs is because most of those that actually smoke pot or have/had contact with people that smoke pot can't admit to it (they might be prosecuted because of it). In other words, they're being censored. This leaves us with an ignorant majority being fed the pre-packaged "pot is evil" message and a knowledgeable minority that cannot (or has to be very carefull when they) educate people to the fact that the official message is mostly lies (pot is highly addictive), wild exagerations (if we liberalize pot, thousands will flood the health services) and subtle omissions (like conveniently forgetting the small detail that tobacco is both more addictive and way much more dangerous to you health than pot).

    58. Re:I'd like to say... by Tim+C · · Score: 5, Insightful

      and the story-moderation censorship was (presumably) done by a now-disbanded and dishonoured editor (Michael Sims, 'Nazi Editor').

      And yet, some of us still appear to be banned from moderation, presumably because of that thread. I don't remember modding it, and I don't remember commenting on it (although I may have), but I certainly read it.

      I've not been able to moderate since. It was a good couple of years before I could even meta-mod; going to metamod.pl directly (I didn't get the link on the front page) gave me a curt "you're not allowed to do this" message.

      It may just be a coincidence, but with a 5-digit UID account that hit the karma cap back when karma was a number rather than a textual description and stayed there I can't see what other crime I could have committed.

      (And no, I've never bothered to ask; to be honest, I don't really care. I just thought I'd point out that while the editor responsible may well have been let go, the fallout still exists)

    59. Re:I'd like to say... by Hadlock · · Score: 5, Informative

      If this is the same editor I'm thinking of, he had a tendancy to add his own malicious commentary, or edit the user submitted part of the article to swing the conversation away from the original intent. This finally caught up with him when he finally crossed the line and he was removed once and for all. This only occured for 2-3 weeks before his termination, so it sounds like there was some stuff going on behind the scenes we'll never know about, and his commentary was just the issue bleeding through on to the front page.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    60. Re:I'd like to say... by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I more or less agree with you. I don't like being called a corporate shill though. It is more of a fact that people grow up, and gain experience, when they realize when they are working at Adobe, Apple, Amazon, IBM, Google, Microsoft, etc. The realize they are not going to meeting after meeting on how to kill Linux. At best they will go we are competing with Linux they say their strong points are this our week points are this how can we fix that. I myself work for a small firm who does work for a lot of large corporations, but still after working there for 5 years I have learned to tolerate Windows, Embrace Apple, See Problems in Linux, and find OSS isn't all the it is cracked up to be. It happens to most people unless they stay in somewhat isolated sectors such as Government, Education, or Non-Profit (GEN) . But otherwise we can usually tell the kids from the pros by just listening to them, They can still be democrats or liberal, but their views are not as sharp and one sided as it use to be is become more of a normal curve vs. a Uniform block. They in time learn to pick their battles, and over time the slow subtile approach usually wins.

      Over time people realize that the Republican/Consertive view does have merit too, but by working with people with these different views and understanding that they are not the devil and their views are quite rational. Right now GEN are mostly populated with people with the same views so it serves to reinforce their beliefs so you don't get the other side from people you can trust and thus you stay on your side. I actually grew up in a conservative family and over time I have become more liberal, on many things, Computer Liberalism did peak in college but sense calmed down. But in general I am more of a liberal person then I use to be.

      Microsoft doesn't need to me me or anyone to post on a board that their product isn't really that bad anymore, or hey they actually did that part correctly now. or to say I think RMS is too radical for OSS, and disconnected from reality. These are my views from me, I have made them with information I have gained over time, Linking with the values that were taught to me then moderated and manipulated over years of experience, and combining them with Logic to help predict possible. Nor corporate money all the time.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    61. Re:I'd like to say... by Jonny_eh · · Score: 3, Funny

      He's a shill!! Get him!!!!

    62. Re:I'd like to say... by indifferent+children · · Score: 2, Funny
      Someone posted a copyrighted portion of the scientology bible (or whatever they call it). Because it was copyrighted material, and a seemingly serious legal threat was issued, the offending comment was removed.

      It's a nitpick, but IIRC, their claim was that the document is protected as containing Trade Secrets, rather than copyright.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    63. Re:I'd like to say... by OS24Ever · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All you have to do is read the tech articles. Back when ZFS was rumored into Mac OS X the comments at slashdot were insightful, intelligent, and informative.

      On the Digg site there was armchair geeks who couldn't find the format command in DOS commenting about it, t'was moronic.

      Digg may be entertaining and 'power to the people' but all it takes is a decent sized group of 'people' and next thing you know you have 911 'truthers' with front page articles.

      Sure they get buried, but then they just submit another one. It's like whack a mole, and there is no real content on Digg.

      What really drives me nuts is the 'make me famous' posts where someone posts a blog entry with 15 words about something huge, and they all go to this blog site first before watching some dumb youtube clip.

      It's a waste of space, but it attracts the yahoos leaving the more intelligent sites alone.

      --

      As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

    64. Re:I'd like to say... by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Funny

      int(rand($member_count * 0.9)) you mean.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    65. Re:I'd like to say... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      geeks to hang out will be overrun with the next generation of corporate shills and OSS zealots. I've been called both by my friends at different points in time. :)

      That's unfortunate. It is and has been an atmosphere where you get accused of being what you are not, I think it's sad that replies resort to that rather than actually respond properly to a statement.

      I've found that I can't breathe a word against Linux without some sort of venom spat at me, and the same went for saying anything against Apple as a corporation. At times, the same goes with saying Microsoft actually does something right on occasion, in my opinion.

      It's not a good argument, I think it's more an argument based on a tech religion, ideology or insecurity than anything resembling a good argument.

    66. Re:I'd like to say... by Technician · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The encryption keeps people from making backups of their movies.

      HD movies are a replacement for DVD movies. There is a propoganda site explaining copy protection on movies. They claim there is no need for back-up copies as with reasonable care DVD's will last forever.

      www.copyprotected.com

      Reasonable care and children never mixed.
      In both sofware and movies, it's the high usage childrens content that is either broken, missing, or otherwise unplayable. The industry in all their wisdom do not have an exchange program for maltreated shiny discs. With kids, backups and working copies are essential.

      Other than the dream of perfectly locked down content with HD, the industry on the other side of their face are admiting that users want to put their purchased movies on their cell phone, media server, PDA, iPod, Zen Vision, etc. just like they want to do with their music.

      The major fear of course is the nth copy of the first copy is exactly the same down to the last bit. With video tape and analog cassette copies, each generation of a copy of a copy degrades adding all the defects of noise, dropouts, loss of fideliety, AGC compression, etc so they tolorated LP's copied onto tape to use in your walkman and car stereo.

      With the advent of perfect copies of copies, they are desprate to lock down the ability to make the first copyable digital copy. This of course is anti-consumer who is used to making back-up copies of valuable data to prevent loss. To get back-up copies, working copies are naturaly shared.

      Notice how nobody bothers making a tape to tape copy of a $5.00 VHS movie? (disregarding Macrovision) When the same moves were $65 and blank VHS tapes were $20 each, piracy was a big problem. (admiting my age, these were a large part of my library) Video stabelizers were the norm to bypass Magnaguard and early Macrovision. The industry needs to get a clue. Nobody takes the time to photocopy a 35 cent daily newspaper to back it up. A $30 movie on the other hand is considered worth backing up.

      SONY recently adding more copy protection to their recent DVD's has put me on the ex-consumer list. Until they permanently change their ways, they have lost me.

      To their credit, they are sending me a replacement for my DRM'ed copy of Open Season. Hopefully I will be able to install it on my media server for the kids. Acidrip wouldn't even recognise the disk.

      If all HD moves were released with retail prices under $6 each, piracy wouldn't be much of a problem. It's less hasle to just go out and pick up a copy.

      Here is a clue to increase sales;
      1 DROP DRM
      2 DROP PRICES
      3 RAISE VALUE
      4 Enjoy increased volume.

      Since they have all of the first 3 wrong, 4 is going the wrong way. Raising quality is only part of raising value. Making it unplayable on many of my systems including media server is a reduction in value. They are walking a tightrope. The RIAA is keeping volume down by dropping DRM and offsetting the potential to raise volume by raising prices. Just how stupid is that? Are they trying to keep volume down?

      Hint Cluestick time. Want to increase volume at current prices? DROP DRM, raise quality. Leave the price alone or lower it.

      I think the RIAA has enough money. If they didn't, they would do someting that made economic sense instead of trying to game the system.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    67. Re:I'd like to say... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it's late and i might be saying something really obvious... but i've convinced myself that slashdot is better because it has been around for so long. the user base has mostly been around for very long and is familiar with the system as well as what possibilities exist to exploit and troll it. ie, it is stable and i always know what i'm getting.

      i don't think digg will forever be a forum for immature posts, but it is still young and what we see now may not be its equilibrium state. though, i sure wouldn't mind if its homepage were always as hilarious as it is right now.

      Slashdot was great before the idiot hordes of brainless 15 year olds found it (as opposed to the intelligent 15 year old geeks who belong here). Then it sucked while the morons were around. Now it's great again since they've left for digg.

      I think your premise is correct, that slashdot established enough of a culture and history of people who know what they're talking about that there was something to revert to after it was (thankfully) no longer the flavor of the month. I don't think digg has that. I think once the kiddies roll over to the next big thing, digg doesn't have enough of an essence to sustain it. What is digg without the kiddies? Just the ability to vote on stories? Idol worship of that Kevin guy? Doesn't seem enough to sustain it. Digg was headed down, but it really jumped the shark when it opened itself to non-tech stories.

      I think slashdot owes digg a substantial debt, in that digg took a large number of the morons and made it more than likely that highly moderated posts on slashdot are actually insightful as opposed to insipid.

    68. Re:I'd like to say... by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Tell her that's she's spreading government disinformation when she mentions how she's seen a massive increase in the number of referrals for people who smoke cannabis.

      Not government disinformation, but she should learn some basic statistics if she's trying to imply anything by this observation. That some mentally ill people take drugs doesn't in itself tell us what effect taking drugs has on mental health.

      I imagine alcohol is involved in a large amount of accidents needing hospital treatment, but this doesn't mean people who drink will end up in A&E, or that we should criminalise it.

    69. Re:I'd like to say... by kestasjk · · Score: 2, Funny

      All you have to do is read the tech articles. Back when ZFS was rumored into Mac OS X the comments at slashdot were insightful, intelligent, and informative. Exactly, on Slashdot everything you see is insightful, informative, or funny. On Digg the posts aren't any of these, so the best case scenario is that they're all underrated.
      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    70. Re:I'd like to say... by glesga_kiss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Until you can *prove* that corporations pay people to post positive PR, I'm classifying this under "urban legend."

      Proving it would be next-to-impossible unless you know the poster personally.

      However, it's well known that sites like digg and reddit have third-party companies offering to get your story onto the front page for a cost. It's not really a huge leap to think that some of these marketing groups are also running shrill accounts. And there have been many online memes that turned out to be artificial campaigns. Examples include Ashley Simpson, LonelyGirl (great name, superb marketing) and various other incidents. Washington DC has been caught out before and here in this weeks Scottish elections there was newspaper that caught the candidates faking responses to an online poll.

      So, to make the assumption that the most internet-aware industry (I.T.) isn't doing this is downright naive.

  2. Was this duped on purpose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't think Slashdot editors are that clever.

    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

    1. Re:Was this duped on purpose? by leonbev · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's only a partial dupe... The first story was about the HD DVD key getting censored on certain sites, and the second story was about Digg's front page getting trashed because they were one of the sites who was censoring it.

      Slashdot deserves a big thumbs-up from the tech community for NOT being one of those sites!

    2. Re:Was this duped on purpose? by jamie · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sure seems like a dupe to me.

      It's not.

    3. Re:Was this duped on purpose? by Marcion · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well it is about time, they went out of their way to say how much greater they were than Slashdot, and all the kids drank Kool-Aid. Now our team gets a goal :-)

      Yes I am English, and everything becomes a football analogy, your problem is?

      Can you hear the Diggities sing
      noooooooooo, noooooooooooo
      Can you hear the Diggities sing
      I CAN'T HEAR A 09 F9 11 THING!!!!!

    4. Re:Was this duped on purpose? by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For the benefit of the American readers:

      s/goal/touchdown/ I think most anglophone American readers, even those who live south of the 49th parallel, know what a "goal" is in ice hockey.
    5. Re:Was this duped on purpose? by jamie · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not saying the editor did it

      We didn't.

  3. So..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I got a 404 error the first time I checked this.

    How Ironic.

  4. Credibility by airencracken · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Digg took a big hit to their credibility today. They underestimated the outrage caused by the banning of users and removal of stories. Perhaps they'll learn that the site is made by the users. Without diggers, there is no digg.

    --
    Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre
    1. Re:Credibility by dunezone · · Score: 2, Funny

      I love Digg, I love Slashdot, I love Reddit. But you're right, today they lost alot of credibility. I've had my own blog on the front of Digg, I wrote it simply because I enjoy being on Digg. Unfortunately, over the past few months we started to notice that certain stories were being pulled from the front page or not even allowed on the front page. We complained and commented on the accounts but nothing ever came about it. Today though, Digg couldn't get away with what they did and their paying for the mistake right now. I made this in response: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1087/pic4gp6.jp g

    2. Re:Credibility by Marcion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Our goal is always to maintain a purely democratic system for the submission and sharing of information" ... " the posting of the encryption key infringes their intellectual property rights. In order to respect these rights" ... "we have removed postings of the key that have been brought to our attention." - Digg

      '"intellectual property" - The distorting and confusing term did not arise by accident. Companies that gain from the confusion promoted it... eject the narrow perspectives and simplistic picture the term "intellectual property" suggests. Consider each of these issues separately, in its fullness, and you have a chance of considering them well.' -- RMS

    3. Re:Credibility by at_slashdot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People posted the number on slashdot too. You can't ban a number.

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    4. Re:Credibility by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Digg has always been a web site that contains all user-submit data - links, posts, etc. It would be really hard for someone to build a credible case against them for the content on that site, especially if they show that they did indeed make an effort to stop it - which is WHY it's become a game for those kids over there.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    5. Re:Credibility by DavidLeblond · · Score: 5, Funny

      Raise your hand if you are surprised.

      Digg is a website that is only as good as the users that contribute to it. Its user base is a bunch of people that... well... lets face it, watch Diggnation.

      I rest my case.

    6. Re:Credibility by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This just proves that the journey is as important as the destination. Both digg and slashdot will ultimately have to remove most of the instances of the number eventually, but digg is doing it in secret. Ultimately, slashdot will get a DMCA notice, and can chose whether or not to fight it. If they do what they did last time, then they'll come out as heroes. If the comments disappear in the dead of night and people notice, they'll get attacked.

    7. Re:Credibility by russotto · · Score: 4, Informative

      If Slashdot gets a DMCA section 512 notice, they can probably safely trash it. The number isn't copyrightable; it's not a creative work. More likely they'll get a C&D accusing them of violating DMCA 1201 (17 USC 1201(a)(2) and 17 USC 1201(b)(1) ). Then it's the 2600 case all over again -- and DVDCCA won that one.

    8. Re:Credibility by vanyel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does Digg have corporate deep pockets willing to take the chance? They're in a no-win situation: risk being destroyed legally and/or financially, or be destroyed by idiots who don't have to make essentially life or death decisions about their creation. Idiots who would rather destroy and vandalize than do something productive like spread the number around in the less conspicuous nooks and crannies of the internet where it has a chance to get embedded in the depths of search engine caches and archives before it can be discovered and taken down. Or for that matter, on remote web sites out of reach of US et al lawyers.

      As though the number actually mattered anyhow. The only people who will use it don't need it posted.

    9. Re:Credibility by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Informative? You are mistakenly thinking the DMCA can only be used to send takedowns for copyrighted material--most people at the time of the DeCSS hubub had no problem with that provision. The problem most people had, and have, with it is that the DMCA also says that notices may also be sent to take down things whose primary purpose is to circumvent digital copyright protection schemes (the DeCSS program was the first high profile thing to be taken down-- *it* wasn't copyrighted by the people taking it down, just like this number isn't). The argument under the law will not be whether this key is copyrighted, it will be whether posting it is posting a circumventing device.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    10. Re:Credibility by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you take a movie without paying for it, that movie studio has to reduce the "few cents an hour" it pays its employees. Duh. Ditto with the guys in the recording studio.

      I don't know about you, but like a ton of people in the IT industry, I work for a company that produces pretty much nothing but intellectual property. (Unless you count the t-shirts and logoed pens we give out at trade shows, that's all we do: intellectual property.) Those rock-bottom prices for digital stuff will put me out of a job, and probably a good proportion of Slashdot's userbase as well.

      Given, the MPAA/RIAA have gone way overboard, but the other side is just as guilty. There has to be a common ground where everybody is happy and everybody with the genuine talent can make a living from it, but posting some stupid encryption key that the MPAA's already stopped using isn't really getting anybody any closer to that ideal.

    11. Re:Credibility by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      they aren't 12 year olds, 12 year olds value their time more then that. Probably 18-22.

      "People can get stuff without paying and now they don't want it to end."
      Fallacy. Your cheap ass might ont want it to end, but most people don't mind paying what they think is fair fot a track.

      iTnes has sold over 2.5 billion tracks. Most of which can be gotten for free with little effort.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re:Credibility by klingens · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They're in a no-win situation: risk being destroyed legally and/or financially, or be destroyed by idiots who don't have to make essentially life or death decisions about their creation.


      That's wrong. when the first key appeared they could have simply let it stand. Then if/when the CCA comes with a C&D, they do what other websites in such trouble before them have done: they take the offending postings down, notify the users who wrote the postings directly. And most importantly put a big article on the frontpage "The evil MPAA censored us!". They look out as persecuted heroes to their community while complying with the law.

      This is not rocket science: slashdot did it, google did it. Lots of well publicized cases for this approach. No court case, no lawyer fees.

      Instead, to salvage their business relationship with the HDDVD consortium, they did the worst possible thing and silently deleted the posting and even the user!

      Only THEN the backlash started with tons of submissions with the forbidden number to point out digg's shameful behaviour in dealing with the problem.
    13. Re:Credibility by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But for every one of them, there are a thousand idiot 12 year-olds who are just enjoying causing chaos, like 12-year old usually do.

      This might be the only time in my memory when I found thousands of chaos-loving 12 year-olds doing something actually useful for the future of the humanity.

      But fear not, this whole nonsensical scam of "Intellectual Property" will, as it must, get more idiotic and common-sense defying as time goes on and to defeat the resulting disobedience and ridicule amongst the technical users the corporate politicos will attempt to implement increasingly more depraved, totalitarian police tactics. There is simply no other way for this to proceed since, ultimately, "Intellectual Property" is all about ownership of thoughts, and as such impossible without Thought Police in one form or another, made only scarier and more vicious as technologies advance closer to direct man-machine interfaces.

      This HD-DVD fiasco is a perfect example of the monumental stupidity of the very phillosophical foundations of "Intellectual Property" in all of their imbecillic glory: an infinite number of integer numbers can be transformed, via an infinite number of mathematical funtions, into the number in question. Effectively to "censor" that target number one has to censor the entire science of Mathematics as one can simply post one in that infinite set of numbers and a corresponding transformation function (as many have done using simplistic schemes such as ROT13 etc).

      And this just to illustrate one of the many abysmally fatal flaws of the greedmongering system called by its con-artist fathers "The Intellectual Property".

    14. Re:Credibility by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative
      Also, if MPAA claims a circumvention of a protection measure what does have to do with people posting a number on any site they didn't circumvent anything and that number is not copyrighted (and probably can't be copyrighted) what do I infringe if I post the number here?

      You infringe nothing, and the copyrightability of the key is irrelevant. Frankly, a discussion about circumvention has nearly nothing to do with copyright; ignore copyrights, and infringements, exceptions and defenses that go with copyrights. Circumvention is basically sui generis.

      17 USC 1201(a)(2)-(3) says this:

      (2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that--
      (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
      (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or
      (C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

      (3) As used in this subsection--
      (A) to "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and
      (B) a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.


      The key, in this context, is a part of a device which likely falls under 1201(a)(2)(C) if not (A) and (B) as well. Disseminating the key is unlawful, apart from its use. It's not an infringement, but it's still illegal. The particular offense would be called trafficking.
      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    15. Re:Credibility by at_slashdot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's basically a password, if a password was revealed on 100,000 sites an I use it in my post to comment the situation not to circumvent anything I frankly doubt they can sue me for trafficking, trafficking what, common knowledge (which by now that key has become)?

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    16. Re:Credibility by melikamp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Claiming (as they would) that an integer is a "circumvention device" is retarded. They shouldn't be allowed to design a lock that can be opened with any pointed object and then ban all sticks and branches.

    17. Re:Credibility by exiquio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think this is about intelligence. I believe this is more of a true freedom issue. The World Wide Web has opened people's minds to something they fail to realize in other areas of society. Namely, that we, the people, are the absolute power. Whether we are talking about a website, a business, or a country the fact remains that those who produce are the true rulers. It is a clever ruse to convince the masses otherwise. Digg failed to realize that this natural impulse towards truth is alive in many web based social networks. They allowed the Digg community to make this clear. Maybe this correct understanding of ownership and power will catch on in places other than technology focused web networks. Then we may finally see a society for the people by the people rather than for the rich and deceiving and by the people.

    18. Re:Credibility by Danga · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First off I believe copyrighting a number is wrong and should be impossible. IANAL so I don't know where this stands since it can be used to circumvent IP protection but I would hope people could not get in trouble for sharing a number.

      However, I think your comment below is wrong too:

      They shouldn't be allowed to design a lock that can be opened with any pointed object and then ban all sticks and branches.

      This is not like designing a lock that can be opened with any pointed object and banning all sticks and branches and more like designing a lock that can be opened with only specially formed pointed objects and then trying to ban people from publically sharing the designs for the pointed objects that open the lock. Not just any sequence of numbers will decrypt the protection, only very specific ones.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
    19. Re:Credibility by russotto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The difference between a Sharpie and the number is that DMCA 1201 forbids providing a "product, service, device, component, or part thereof" that

      "is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure", or

      "has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure" or

      or
      "is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure "

      (I've elided some excess verbiage)

      A Sharpie obviously has a primary purpose other than marking out the data track in a copy protected audio disc. It obviously has significant commerical use besides marking out the data track in a copy protected audio disc. And they're normally sold as markers, not circumvention devices. If you provided someone a Sharpie while touting its value in circumventing audio disc copy protection, you'd be in violation, but otherwise the Sharpie is safe.

      This number, on the other hand, has a primary purpose of being used in bypassing HD-DVD protection. And it has no other significant commercial use. So, if it can be considered to be a "product, service, device, component, or part thereof", then providing it falls under the prohibition of DMCA 1201(a)(2) (which covers access to a copyrighted work). I think MPAA et al would probably argue it falls under DMCA 1201(b)(1) (which covers "a right of the copyright owner") as well; they'd claim their scheme was both access protection and copy protection.

  5. Ah, how timely by metlin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The fortune cookie at the bottom of the page reads -

    "Anyone attempting to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin." -- John Von Neumann

    Indeed.

    1. Re:Ah, how timely by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Informative

      Figures. The funniest part of that quote is missing! Before Von Neumann uttered that sentence, he first stated that "The generation of random numbers is far too important to leave to chance." :-P

    2. Re:Ah, how timely by Doctor+Crumb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lies! I just wrote a random number generator, and it works wonderfully!

      Here's the source code:


      my @seeds = (
              -1, 239, 7, -8, 0x93, 0x6a, 217, 81, 206, 55, 76, 187, 89, 76, 126, 182
      );

      # mutate the seed in some manner to get random hex output.
      my @results;
      foreach my $seed (@seeds)
      {
              my $result = ($seed + 10) % 256;
              push @results, $result;
      }
      foreach my $result (@results) {
              printf("%0x:", $result);
      }

  6. Toothpaste.. by craznar · · Score: 5, Funny

    The harder you sqeeze, the more comes out.

    MPAA Lesson of the day.

    00110000001110010100011000111001001100010011000100 11000000110010001110010100010000110111001101000100 01010011001100110101010000100100010000111000001101 00001100010011010100110110010000110011010100110110 00110011001101010011011000111000001110000100001100 11000000100000

    --
    EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
    1. Re:Toothpaste.. by airencracken · · Score: 5, Funny

      Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now. Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

      --
      Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre
  7. Just so you know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

    1. Re:Just so you know by dynamo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thank you. Someone mod that up so I can find it if I ever need it later.

  8. Frickin' Hilarious by Lije+Baley · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is the funniest thing I've seen since reading the "Slashdot Trolling Phenomena" entry in Wikipedia.

    --
    Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    1. Re:Frickin' Hilarious by Old+Wolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is the funniest thing I've seen since reading the "Slashdot Trolling Phenomena" entry in Wikipedia.

      That page has now been removed (it redirects to Slashdot). But I did learn something useful - prime-number user IDs are considered valuable by some. Funnily enough, I checked mine and it is prime. All I have to do now is sit back and wait for my plan to come to fruition.

      1. Discover your user ID is prime
      2. ???
      3. Profit!

    2. Re:Frickin' Hilarious by digitig · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mine is divisible by four primes. Does that make it four times as valuable?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  9. Digg management are full of hypocrites by cioxx · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Since its inception Digg had a community-driven submission and voting process which did not supress free speech. I've seen endless stories and links to torrent sites like piratebay, demonoid, bitme, et al. and Digg management turned a blind eye on directing users to places of "copyright infringement"

    Today it's different for some reason. One of the managers posted a justification on the official blog:

    Whether you agree or disagree with the policies of the intellectual property holders and consortiums, in order for Digg to survive, it must abide by the law. Diggs Terms of Use, and the terms of use of most popular sites, are required by law to include policies against the infringement of intellectual property.


    Funny stuff.
    1. Re:Digg management are full of hypocrites by martin-boundary · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The funniest thing about the sort of attitude you quote from Digg's management is that they have no clue about the DMCA at all.

      The DMCA rule is (loosely paraphrased): if a site doesn't censor its users posts and implements an automatic takedown system with notification to the user, then it's safe from copyright infringement claims (safe harbor provision). By doing this, the copyright claimants must ask for each offending comment to be removed individually, and each time some comment is removed, the user who posted the comment receives a realtime notification and he can decide that he's not infringing anything and is allowed to put the post back up. After that, the post cannot be removed again, unless a court looks at the case and makes a ruling.

      If however a site censors or modifies its users posts, then it is effectively taking editorial ownership and *that* is when the site becomes potentially liable for copyright infringement claims by third parties.

    2. Re:Digg management are full of hypocrites by coaxial · · Score: 2, Informative

      After tons of bad press, they've reversed position..

      Gee. Took them a while.

    3. Re:Digg management are full of hypocrites by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is precisely why I dislike people talking about the DMCA, as opposed to the particular portions of Title 17 that happen to be at issue. The DMCA did a lot of unrelated things.

      You're describing, not all that accurately, the takedown procedure at 17 USC 512. The thing is, that only applies in cases of copyright infringement. But the current fuss hasn't got a thing to do with copyright infringement. It has to do with trafficking in circumvention devices under 17 USC 1201, which has no connection to 512 whatsoever. There is no 512 safe harbor for trafficking.

      I'd say that they have more of a clue than you do.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  10. You can't ban a number. Period. by at_slashdot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Title says all ;-)

    --
    "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
  11. Digg is a piece of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Notwithstanding the fact that most articles are either innacurate or stupid, they will IP ban anyone who says anything bad about their site. Digg is one step up from "myspace"

    Also, you can get a perm ban from digg if you use the star of david as your "digg icon"... no kidding!

  12. Honestly curious... by ParadoxDruid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Digg actually posted a reply to the community on their blog here.

    What I'm honestly curious about is this: Is this numeric string code copyrighted? Where is the copyright filed, if so? Or is it a trade secret? Do trade secrets need to be filed or declared somehow? Is a trade secret intellectual property that must be removed when a theatening (maybe DMCA) notice is sent?

    I'm nowhere near understanding the complexities of the current intellectual property legal codes in the USA, let alone how they actually apply in this situation. All I see is hysteria.

    --
    This statement is solely an opinion. Kindly take it as such in all cases.
    1. Re:Honestly curious... by endx7 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The number key can be used to circumvent the HD DVD copyright protection mechanism (AACS)... This particular key sounds especially important.

      The DMCA has clauses to protect DRM in addition to adding provisions for protection of copyright (as well as outlining common carrier liability).

      From the wikipedia article about DRM:

      Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is an extension to United States copyright law passed unanimously on May 14, 1998, which criminalizes the production and dissemination of technology that allows users to circumvent technical copy-restriction methods, rendering all forms of DRM-stripping and circumvention software illegal, as well as some aspects of research and reverse engineering of existing systems. On 22 May 2001, the European Union passed the EU Copyright Directive, an implementation of the 1996 WIPO Copyright Treaty that addressed many of the same issues as the DMCA.

    2. Re:Honestly curious... by SPYvSPY · · Score: 2, Informative

      The string allows one to circumvent copy protection measures. Under the DMCA, publishing such information is a thought crime punishable by scrotal piercing.

    3. Re:Honestly curious... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Informative

      What I'm honestly curious about is this: Is this numeric string code copyrighted? No, but they'll try to claim it is. Then they'll probably try to claim it's a "circumvention device". It's all crap though.

      Or is it a trade secret? No, trade secrets are secrets.

      Do trade secrets need to be filed or declared somehow? Is a trade secret intellectual property that must be removed when a theatening (maybe DMCA) notice is sent? No, the only protection "trade secrets" have is legal hammers for pounding those who reveal them (does not apply to reverse engineering though!). The classic example is an employee of Coca-Cola entrusted with access to the "secret formula" leaking it to the public. Coke has no legal power to stop the public from knowing or using their trade secret, but they can sure sue the crap out of them, and might even have the feds put them in federal pound me in the ass prison.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    4. Re:Honestly curious... by SpectreHiro · · Score: 5, Informative

      What I'm honestly curious about is this: Is this numeric string code copyrighted? Where is the copyright filed, if so?

      Standard Disclaimer: IANAL -- By United States Copyright law, and I believe the laws of all signees of the Berne Convention (163 nations), a work is "copyrighted" the instant it is recorded in some tangible form. There is no need for it to be registered with any legal body. The United States Copyright Office does offer a registration service, but it's more a matter of convenience than of necessity.

      Now, a sixteen digit hexidecimal number almost certainly fails to meet the minimum requirements for novelty and authorship (whatever the hell such qualities are referred to legally) and thus is not under the protection of copyright. However, the distribution of encryption codes undoubtedly falls afoul of the draconion terms of the DMCA, which has basically nothing to do with copyright.

      The US Copyright Office runs a fairly informative website that's well worth the 10 or so minutes it takes to skim --> http://www.copyright.gov/

      --
      You can't win, Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
    5. Re:Honestly curious... by Sam+Ritchie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What GP was referring to was this quote:

      owners of this intellectual property ... believe the posting of the encryption key infringes their intellectual property rights."

      I think it's a valid question - are the HD-DVD group claiming that they own copyright on this number, or is the number somehow registered as a trade secret? Certainly I can understand how linking to a code listing of a program designed to circumvent copy protection is illegal in some jurisdictions (though I would still question whether it constitutes IP infringement), but posting the number? It's akin to me issuing takedown notices for sites containing the word 'boobies'*, because that's what I use as a password to protect my files against unauthorised copying.

      * Not my real password.

      --
      This sig is false.
    6. Re:Honestly curious... by lgbr · · Score: 2, Informative

      This number would (or, at least, should) be regarded as a trade secret. Trade secrets do not need to be filed or declared, they are simply protected by confidentiality. While it is illegal for an insider, such as a company employee, to leak a trade secret, it is not illegal to discover a trade secret. Reverse engineering trade secrets is completely legal.

  13. Wikipedia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wikipedia has chosen to speedy-delete the article and all similarly titled articles based on the hexadecimal number. I found the deletion review at this link. It seems like the only way left to get the article undeleted is to present good arguments there. I, for my part, have been blocked by another admin for posting my undelete comment. It looks like censorship is in season.

    1. Re:Wikipedia by micksam7 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The key has also snuck into other places on wikipedia as well. :)

    2. Re:Wikipedia by bky1701 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know, it's sad, but it's not like anyone didn't see it coming. Wikipedia sold out long ago, now the only thing they care about is easy funding (overall) and keeping themselves admins (just about every admin...). None of them are going to speak out because it hurts #1, and hurting #1 hurts #2. The emperor has no clothes, ad nauseum.

      So what's the next wiki that's going to take over? Cowboynealpedia?

    3. Re:Wikipedia by JNighthawk · · Score: 2, Interesting
      --
      Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
    4. Re:Wikipedia by asninn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wikipedia has a clear purpose/goal, though - namely, to create an encyclopaedia. It's not a democracy, an experiment in free speech, an effort to resist censorship, the EFF, Wikileaks, or anything like that.

      There certainly are a bunch of problems with the way the community is being run (and I say that as someone who is an admin on en.wp and has been for a couple of years already), but the fact remains that Wikipedia's goal is to write an encyclopaedia - and NOTHING else.

      --
      butter the donkey
  14. Quick to rise.... by nobodyman · · Score: 5, Funny

    And quick to fall. I cannot believe how swift and concerted this response is. I bet the digg admins are kinda wishing they had, oh I dunno.... EDITORS?

  15. Digg meltdown by ISurfTooMuch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been watching this develop tonight, and Digg has gone into meltdown, not so much in the technical sense but in the sense that the user base is in open revolt, posting stories containing the code and commenting on events over...and...over...and over. As quickly as one article is removed, two more appear, and the tone of them is getting angrier and angrier by the hour.

    Just my opinion, but I don't see how Digg can come out of this with any credibility left. Was this ever about the DMCA? Perhaps in the beginning, but it's turned into a battle of wills between the Digg admins and its user base, and, even if the admins could somehow manage to magically obliterate every article on this subject, they're going to have a hard time explaining themselves to the user base, who are, by and large, mad as hell.

    And to those who are, indeed, mad as hell, consider what you will do after this incident is over. Kevin and the other admins may indeed fear a lawsuit if they don't take these articles down. Is that wrong, or is the law that allows this possibility the thing that is wrong? It's easy to sit there and paste line after line of numbers, but what would you do in the face of a lawsuit, even if it it's a ridiculous lawsuit supported by a law crafted just for this kind of abuse? You're taking action now, but will you get organized to push for real change tomorrow, the day after, and the day after that?

    1. Re:Digg meltdown by nimid · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've been watching this develop tonight, and Digg has gone into meltdown, not so much in the technical sense but in the sense that the user base is in open revolt...

      I've always found Digg users to be revolting...

      --
      A hundred and twenty characters ought to be enough for anyone...
    2. Re:Digg meltdown by OBeardedOne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bah. Don't you see? The majority of the Diggers that are up in arms and causing such a fuss are LOVING it! This controversy has made their week/year. Digg's (kevin Roses) capitulation has made the organised loud mouth minority feel even MORE valuable to the Digg community because they have directly influenced change. They won't be giving up on Digg, they won't be going anywhere. This sort of organised revolt is what they've been needing/wanting. Now that they've had a taste they'll be hanging for another chance at it. This incident and the associated publicity will only make Digg stronger. Assuming Digg can weather the legal storm of course.

  16. Free Speech Flag by at_slashdot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Somebody created a free speech flag: http://www.badmouth.net/free-speech-flag/

    --
    "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
  17. When will people realise... by smegged · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... Oppression of an idea, thought or belief is the best way to get the news spread (see religion). It is the overcommercialisation of an idea which causes it to fade from popularity (see modern day rock music). The best thing that the music industry, or indeed the movie industry could do to stamp out piracy is to ignore it and release a superior product (I am more than willing to pay for a high quality product, provided I can do with it whatever I wish). Currently DRMed digital music and video is an inferior product at a higher price than what "the pirates" are producing, which is why the MAFIAA continue to lose market share to the Coallition of Regular Annonymous Pirates (CRAP).

  18. Free Speech "Snowcrash" by Foktip · · Score: 2, Funny

    Its like digg imploded from too much freedom... into a continuous fuzz of meaningless crap (basically like april fools day on the uncyclopedia.org). I CANT WAIT to see the next episode of diggnation!!!

  19. Beyond the hex by loconet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As I said numerous times,

    People don't seem to understand that this goes beyond a silly little hex key. The key has been out for months. A new one will come and it will also be broken. This is not about that. This is about consumers finally standing up against the bullshit being fed to them by media giants. They crossed the line today when they forced digg to censor user generated content, not only articles but also comments and somewhat related content.

    As a consumer i am sick and tired of getting fabricated excuses as to why i can't play what I've bought wherever the hell i want. NO, i don't care if you keep making up the story that DRM is to protect yourself from piracy. I don't buy it. DRM will be broken no matter what. DRM is there to ensure your revenue stream by controlling where I can play the content. Now you go and censor my news source giving a bullshit excuse that a randomly generated hex number is some how your IP? You install rootkits in my computer, You stop me from using my content I bought the way I want? pretend to own _MY_ hardware? Enough of that bullshit.

    This is a revolt against the greediness and blatant disrespect for the consumer that comes from the mpaa/riaa.

    SAVE THE NUMBERS, SAVE THE WORLD. REMEMBER The 1st of MAY.

    --
    [alk]
    1. Re:Beyond the hex by JFMulder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is about consumers finally standing up against the bullshit being fed to them by media giants.
      No. Those are nerds in their basement who feel safe in the anonymousity of the web who would shit their pants if they tried to stand up for the same issue in real life.

      If anything, online petitions are such furor have proven time after time that most (but not all, see Sony rootkin fiasco) of the time, when people complain on the web, nothing happens.

    2. Re:Beyond the hex by wall0159 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > "safe in the anonymousity of the web"
      I doubt it. While there are certainly times that people take advantage of anonymity to seem brave, I don't think this is one of those times. I think more relevant is the fact that the group of people who are knowledgeable about this are diffuse, and the internet is the place they can meet and converse.

      > "If anything, online petitions ... have proven [that] when people complain on the web, nothing happens."
      I think there's been ample evidence in the past decade that people protesting in the street does little to sway a determined government too. I don't think that means we should just roll over and accept it.

      Being afraid to speak openly because of fear of reprisals does not make one a coward.

  20. Re:Before this gets out of hand again... by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Excuse me.

    The MPAA (or whoever) is telling Digg to take down those stories.

    They have the authority to do this thanks to the DMCA.

    The DMCA is a law enacted by who? That's right, the government of the United States of America.

    So who is threatening the people who run Digg with jail time? That's right, the United States of America.

    How is that not censorship?

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  21. Screw digg! by Cervantes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, screw Digg! Those bastards, censoring shit, trying to hide things, giving in to "The Man" and the fear of legal battles. Fuck them! Slashdot rules!

    Hey, on a completely unrelated note, can anyone point me to that copy of book 3 of Scientology that was posted here a few years back?
    kthnx.

    --
    If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
    1. Re:Screw digg! by metlin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The thing is, Slashdot took off the Scientology crap because they were served a legal notice.

      Also, Slashdot also provided a detailed writeup on what had happened, why they were taking down the said comments (which happened to paste entire texts) and gave some pointers on finding the said information.

      Which is completely different from Digg removing the story and not telling anyone about it (until of course the users discovered it). And their response was an after-the-fact event, made worse by the fact that Digg receives sponsorship for Diggnation from the very folks this thing seems to piss off.

      The two are completely different, and Slashdot did it right. Digg did not do it right and the users are revolting. More power to them.

    2. Re:Screw digg! by catmistake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Though I am detecting sarcasm, I will ignore it for the sake of argument.

      Would you call it censorship if someone posted your social security number, phone number, bank account numbers, etc, over and over and over, and Digg admins took it down?

      That isn't speech. It isn't protected. The kids are just behaving badly. They are mad because they want it their way. What they are doing is selfish, and not at all helpful to fighting real censorship. They are a mob. A distration from real issues. A mindless crowd, copycatting each other.

      The crowd is untruth. (S.K.)

      Come on... Karma, go get 'em.

    3. Re:Screw digg! by coaxial · · Score: 2, Informative

      That was a classic article. You're right. Malda, Bates, Miller, et.al did it right that time. Instead of supressing the article, which lets face it, was pretty much as blatent copyright infringement as you can get, the damage was compounded.

      And what's up with modern religions trying to copyright they're symbols? The VA can put it on a headstone but you can't see it in the list? You can't put it on a t-shirt? What the hell man? Sounds like someone is more concerned about getting their cut than salvation.

  22. With Apologies To Allan Sherman by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Ahem. You know it's gonna be one of those weird filks when I post with "With Apologies To" in the Subject: line. Not sure how this got here. Probably the same twisted place that Natalie's Restaurant came from.

    At any rate, this is a parody of Allan Sherman's tirade against all-digit dialing, "The Let's All Call Up AT&T And Protest To The President March". By staggering coincidence, the original was inspired by someone posting it in on USENET in the .mp3.comedy group. Weren't me, although my parents turned me onto Mr. Sherman's parodies by giving me their vinyl original that they'd owned since before I was born.

    By even more coincidence, you can sing it as either: "Let's all post the Processing Key and fuck AACSLA" March, for rather obvious reasons, or the "Let's all post To D-I-G-G and say 'fark you' to Kevin Rose" March, (on account of every single story on digg.com's front page, as the original poster already linked to in TFA)

    By utterly unsurprising coincidence, and like every filk I write here, this parody is in the public domain, and you can sing it however you like, although in this case it'll probably be funnier if you keep the numbers the way they was written.

    AACS VERSION:

    It's the "Let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA!" march!
    Watch their lawyers worry and fidget,
    Cease and DE-sisting sixteen hex digits!

    So let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA, march!
    So protest! (so protest!)
    Do your best! (do your best!)
    Let us show them that we post in unity.
    If they won't (if they won't!),
    Change the rules (change the rules!),
    Let's buy our movies from another monopoly!

    Let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA march.
    Let us wake their landsharks from slumber,
    Get a pencil, I'll give you their number.

    It's Nine, Eff-nine, One-one, Two, Nine-D,
    SevenTY-four, Eee-three, Five-B... (dash!)
    Dee-eight, four-one, five-six, Cee-five,
    Sixty-three, fifty-six, eight-eight... (hyphen!)
    And now that you're on the right road,
    Don't forget to end with Cee-0h!

    Here's to freedom and fair use! 09F9! 1102s!
    Watch your HD-DVD! 9D74! E35B!
    Let's keep that 16-byte key alive!
    D841! 56C5! AACS is totally broke! 6356! 88C0! Hooray!

    To arnezami's mental fiber,
    We'll erect a triumphal arch!
    For the "let's all post the processing key and fuck AACSLA!" march.

    And since we're long (about 2 and a half months!) past the point that a parody of the AACS key wouldn't be complete without the
    DIGG VERSION:

    It's the "Let's all post To D-I-G-G and say 'fark you' to Kevin Rose" march!
    Watch him worry, watch as he fidgets,
    As his users post sixteen hex digits!
    So let's all post to D-I-G-G and say 'fuck you' to Kevin Rose march.
    So protest! (so protest!)
    Do your best! (do your best!)
    Let us show him that we digg in unity.
    If he won't (if he won't!),
    Change the rules (change the rules!),
    Let's take our pageviews to Slashdot's company!

    Let's all post to D-I-G-G and say 'fuck you' to Kevin Rose march.
    Let us wake him up in his slumber.
    Get a pencil, I'll give you his number.

    It's Nine, Eff-nine, One-one, Two, Nine-D,
    SevenTY-four, Eee-three, Five-B... (dash!)
    Dee-eight, four-one, five-six, Cee-five,
    Sixty-three, fifty-six, eight-eight... (hyphen!)
    And now that you're on the right road,
    Don't forget to end with Cee-0h!

    Here's to freedom and fair use! 09F9! 1102s!
    Watch your HD-DVD! 9D74! E35B!
    Let's keep that 16-byte key alive! D841! 56C5!
    AACS is totally broke! 6356! 88C0! Hooray!

    To arnezami's mental fiber,
    We'll erect a triumphal arch!
    For the let's all post to D-I-G-G and say 'fuck you' to Kevin Rose march.

    And don't make me deal with this "Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 35.7)", because it's a long pair of

  23. WRONG! by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is NOT censorship.

    Incorrect. Censorship is when someone censors you.

    Censorship is a government telling someone what they cannot read, hear, see, or think.

    Wrong. I can censor what my kids watch on TV, my work can censor my internet access, etc.

    What you're thinking of is the first amendment.

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  24. On-topic comment by Old+Wolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Something that nobody's explained, since this story broke:

    Whose bright idea was it to use the same 128-bit symmetric key for every DVD ??

    NB. Please don't mod this off-topic just because I said it wasn't.

    1. Re:On-topic comment by shird · · Score: 4, Informative

      Something needs to be common between every DVD, otherwise you couldn't make players that can play every DVD.

      The keys are actually different for each DVD, but they are derived from a common secret, and hashed and mixed about etc. The system is actually quite clever, and not a single symmetric key by any means. But no matter how you slice it, there will always need to be a common shared secret which is used to derive the means to unlock the media. That shared secret isn't the key itself, but the "processing key" which is in part used to derive the real key for each disc (to put it in very simple terms).

      --
      I.O.U One Sig.
    2. Re:On-topic comment by pjrc · · Score: 3, Informative

      On the doom9 discussion forum where this all happened, everyone was very surprised to learn all existing discs have the same processing key. Those who seem to really know the details all say the AACSLA can use a different processing key on each disc, or small groups of discs. There is a lot of guessing as to how long it'll take them to change how they issue keys for new discs, but it seems certain they will improve soon.

      Regarding this statement:

      Something needs to be common between every DVD, otherwise you couldn't make players that can play every DVD.

      That common element is a "title key" that is unique to that particular disc, and it is encrypted by a "device key" that is embedded inside the player (not on the disc). There are several intermediate decryption steps, where keys and other data are combined in complex ways. But ultimately, there is not some common thing among all DVDs.

      The "processing key" is at one of these intermediate steps, shortly after the device key is used. The AACSLA could and should have used a different processing key on every disc or small groups of discs. The term "very lazy" was used on the doom9 forum. The AACSLA almost certainly will start changing the processing key for new discs. How soon, nobody knows.

      Nobody has yet discovered (and made public) any "device key". It is rumored that someone may have one and is waiting to release it. The first step in the process involves 512 copies of a key, each encrypted with a different device key, so that any particular player will use one of the 512. The AACSLA can cause new discs to not work with existing device keys, which is what seems to have happened with the recent upgrades to the software players. If anyone ever captures the device key from a major brand hardware player (that is installed in millions of homes and not upgradeable), the AACSLA will have very difficult decision to make!

  25. Re:Before this gets out of hand again... by Nasarius · · Score: 4, Informative
    Must we go through this every single time? From M-W:

    censor
    to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable <censor the news>; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable <censor out indecent passages>
    If you can find me a single definition of "censor" as a verb that refers exclusively to the government, I'd be shocked. By virtue of the US Constitution, such acts are typically only illegal when done by the government. It is no less "censorship".
    --
    LOAD "SIG",8,1
  26. Re:This saddens me by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 4, Funny

    we slashdotters are honored by your honesty, and we hope you documented your feelings in your blog.

    --
    If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
  27. it's called the "Streisand effect" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
  28. Re:Before this gets out of hand again... by NorthwestWolf · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Censorship is a government telling someone what they cannot read, hear, see, or think."

    You might want to try that one again chief, the act of censorship isn't only carried out by governments. By your logic media private outlets couldn't censor information.

    See the following to get a fucking clue:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

    n. censor 1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.

    tr.v. censored, censoring, censors
    To examine and expurgate.

  29. This isn't about the number anymore by Trollificus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While they can do what they want on their own site, it is more a matter of credibility than anything else right now. The whole revolt isn't even about the HD-DVD key. What has people feeling burnt is the fact that Digg purports to be about free and open user-driven content in a democratic setting, and what we're seeing here is a cabal of admins who are subverting the entire process of the system to suit their own whims.

    Now as I said, it's not even about the 128-bit key anymore. And it's not about the DMCA or its merits(or lack thereof). The problem goes much deeper than that, and the encryption key debacle was more of a catalyst for what the more perceptive Diggers knew was going on all along but never really had any proof of. See, it's not just any posts containing the number they're removing. The Digg admins are removing and banning any discussion on the topic, even legitimate discussions on the ramifications of censorship in the user-driven internet era. Quite a few legitimate and thought-provoking discussions got clobbered when the admins got ban-happy today.

    They have unwittingly set themselves up as a prime example of what can go wrong when marketing dollars(it is being reported that the HD-DVD guys throw ad dollars at Diggnation) meet the voice of the people. It is now being said that the Digg admins are stepping in and removing "objectionable" content when it conflicts with the will of their advertisers or displays any anti-Digg sentiment. While I'm sure this is good business sense, it's a very ugly way of being outed as a shill and a fraud to your readers. Digg is supposed to be the underdog who fought the status-quo and beat overwhelming odds against "the system". Now people are finding out that Digg has become the system, and they're a bit disillusioned that their hero Mr. Rose is just like any other business man who is out to make a buck. But like I said, the admins of Digg are obviously free to do with their site as they see fit. But Digg is only as good as the people who contribute to it. Kiss them good-bye and you kiss Digg good-bye.

    --

    "People should be allowed to keep midgets as pets."
    - Gov. Jesse Ventura

  30. Re:P.S. Digg This by alex4u2nv · · Score: 5, Funny

    In order to get Dugg, you must first title your article with "Coolest ... you'll ever see!!!"

  31. Re:P.S. Digg This by Marcion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The founders of Digg.com - which has been rocked by an unprecedented user revolt over the release of an HD-DVD decryption code - accepted sponsorship from the organization behind HD-DVD last year." hmmm

  32. Old Joke by Kenshin · · Score: 5, Funny

    - "Digg's community is revolting!"

    - "I know! And they seem pretty upset about something too..."

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

  33. Five thousand 12-year-olds throw a temper tantrum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll agree the Digg community took a hit today, but only because it shows the mentality of its users. These are the same people that believe internet petitions actually do something.

  34. Re:Poor Digg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've never seen anything like this before, it's probably unprecedented. (I know I've been digging HD-DVD stories all day long)

    I wonder if it's the end of Digg...


    You mean, like, did they finally arrive in China? Hard to say, but the culture is very similar.
  35. The Elephant In The Room by DeadBugs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Digg is trying to suppress information that is painted across the internet and can be found by a 3 year old with a simple Google search. I really have no idea what they hope to gain by this. Even if this is because they have HD-DVD ads on their site or they were contacted by a legal entity trying to remove the links all they have done is drawn more attention to it. So Digg has ruined their credibility and further publicized the key..... wow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room

    --
    http://www.kubuntu.org/
  36. Genie/Bottle, Horse/Barndoors, Pee/Pool ... by Brett+Johnson · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've been observing the revolt at digg throughout the day. The editors can no longer keep up with the posts. The entire digg front page (and most of the "Upcoming stories") is flooded with posts about the HD-DVD key.

    Someone tried to create a Wikipedia page documenting the revolt, but that too was taken down.

    Since AACS was broken 6 weeks ago, the MPAA and AACS LA have been sending out a flurry of DMCA takedown notices. However, as this example shows, the takedown notices seem to be delivered via USPS Express Mail. As mentioned, the current explosion has more than 300,000 pages mentioning the key (I don't know how many link to the Doom9 page). IIRC, Express Mail costs about USD $8 [usps.com seems to be off-line at the moment]. Sending out 300,000 notices at $8 a pop would inject $2.4M into the coffers of the United States Postal Service. Perhaps they would even roll back the rate increase that went into effect today [yeah, right].

    Of course, delivering that many notices by physical mail would be prohibitively expensive, not to mention an ecological nightmare. The $2.4M would probably be better of spent combating the real pirates, rather than bloggers and video consumers.

  37. Re:Before this gets out of hand again... by martin-boundary · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It doesn't matter. If the MPAA is telling Digg to take down comments for copyright infringement, then Digg must tell the affected users that their comment was taken down, and would those users like to repost the same comment?

    The DMCA isn't one way, it's two way. Some random guy can say your post is infringing his copyright, and you can say he's full of it. At that point, the web board is no longer involved. If the random guy wants to take it to court, he can only attack you directly (and conversely).

    We've had stories about this before.

  38. SVG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?>
    <svg xmlns:svg="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.0">

      <title>Freedom flag</title>
      <desc>As ridiculous as it sounds, even numbers have become "intellectual property" that corporations can claim ownership

    of.</desc>

      <rect width="100" height="300" x="0" y="0" fill="#09F911" />
      <rect width="100" height="300" x="100" y="0" fill="#029D74" />
      <rect width="100" height="300" x="200" y="0" fill="#E35BD8" />
      <rect width="100" height="300" x="300" y="0" fill="#4156C5" />
      <rect width="100" height="300" x="400" y="0" fill="#635688" />

      <text x="410" y="275" font-family="Verdana" font-size="36" fill="white">+C0</text>

    </svg>

  39. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0? by Wicked+Zen · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wait a sec, now there's new bad numbers? Oh, 4 8 15 16 23 42, your reign of terror is over!

  40. From the article: by dominious · · Score: 3, Funny

    An astonishing number of stories related to HD-DVD encryption keys have gone missing in action from digg.com
    The number you are looking for is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
  41. Fark's response... by Daychilde · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fark is actively censoring as well... recent headlines on redlit discussions: Don't bother submitting the HD-DVD passcode. It's against the FarQ, isn't going to be greenlit, and is against the law. Don't like it? Vote and OMG Admins just DELETED a post on Fark that contained a blatent violation of the FarQ and could have legal ramifications for a privately owned website. CENSORSHIP NDIT LGT GIS for "Whiny biatch"

    --
    A cheerful little bird is sitting here singing.
    1. Re:Fark's response... by Lehk228 · · Score: 5, Funny

      fark is dead since the redesign anyways. long threads take forever to load now, and the whole site looks like carebear bukkake

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    2. Re:Fark's response... by kent.dickey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I find fark's complete lack of even a mention of this issue on its front page quite telling. Fark's strong editorial policy is quite visible on this issue, and it feels like fark is no longer much "fun". And I saw that a fark thread today with a lot of pics that had all pictures removed by a moderator for fear that some might be NSFW. It's not fark, it's nanny.com. But, I've learned a new catch phrase: "You'll get over it."

    3. Re:Fark's response... by AxemRed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I posted (what I thought) was a clever headline for the whole issue, and I linked to Digg's main page. I figured that it was legitimate news. Fark hadn't posted any warnings about it yet. So what did they do? They banned me for "Submission queue abuse."

  42. Intriguing. by jd · · Score: 5, Interesting
    In a day and age when Big Brother is all but day-to-day reality, the government is prohibited from censoring but corporations are actively encouraged. Corporate censorship is probably worse than Government censorship, in that corporations produce things - and sometimes those things have turned out to be harmful in some way, or sometimes quite lethal to the user. Said Vioxx. Other times, there have been very very narrow escapes - aspartamine was never clinically tested and this information was actively suppressed for some time. Turns out it does impair brain functioning, mildly. Sony did everything in its power to limit knowledge of the rootkit it released and the potential damage it could cause, on a less hazardous - but potentially expensive - note.

    Yet as the grandparent post shows, there are those determined to believe only governments can censor, and there have been many cases where people have attempted to sue companies over first amendment rights. Censorship can happen between any two or more individuals, and you ONLY have rights when it comes to the Government.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  43. MAFIA: You lost. GET OVER IT. by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Suggested methods of sticking it to the MAFIAA:

    1. Write the number and short-short-version on chalkboards around campus (I plan to do this tomorrow).
    2. Set an image of it as the background on public computers you use.
    3. Start mass-mailings.
    4. Post the number anywhere you can in creative ways.

  44. This makes me laugh and angry at the same time by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    because what the Digg users did to put the number on various posts on the Digg front page is exactly why government monitoring of communications of citizens will never net them the "terr'ists" messages. There are so many low tech ways to encode a message that can be broadcast in broad view of the public and still be coded that the government could spend billions or more man years trying to find them, never mind decode them. Some of those today included:

    A song, a t-shirt, a commercial, blog title, html color coding scheme, a bad poem, street directions, website name, and many others...

    This is EXACTLY why monitoring private communications will never stop covert communications. This is exactly why the DRM won't work, why the relative Patriot Act efforts will fail and why monitoring doesn't work. The fact that the bad guys know there is monitoring will ensure that they use something so covert that all of us will see it and not know it, which is BTW very LOW tech, so won't be caught by hitech monitoring systems.

    Whatever you think of Digg users, they have demonstrated an important thing. When someone needs to communicate, censorship will not work, the DMCA will fail to stop it, the Patriot Act cannot prevent the damage done and no new laws will fix this basic failure of preventative control.

    Any message that wants to get out will get out, be it a key, a program, or just a rebellious thought. Censorship does not work.

    Sure, there are those who pedantically will tell me it seems to be working in countries like China, but even there I think all they have done is slow down the information flow rather than cut it off. If writers in China want to post to blogs, they can get someone in Sweeden to write / host a dtmf translation program that takes a phone call, translates the DTMF and posts the information to the appropriate blog site/account. This would bypass all the censorship efforts to date.

    The plus side of this is that along the way, someone somewhere is going to find innovative ways to do things. My bet is that it will always be those that want to be uncensored that innovate most.

  45. You've missed the point, by geekoid · · Score: 2

    It's not about this password, it's about not being able to do perfectly legal thing with the media we purchased.
    It's about the fact that the DMCA only hurts the consumers, and is wrong.
    It's about the fact that the Industry is using a cheesy, SOB method to avoid copyright expiration.
    It is about the facts that the MPAA is abusing a privildge we the people, through congress, give them.

    It is NOT about being able to distribute the content, it is not about copyright infringement at all.
    The people who are the big violators are not hurt by this because they just make a press, or bit by bit copy of the media.

    The MPAA needs to stop this and use the resourses to go after the big pirates. They guys the press 10,000 copies and then sell them. The nees to stop using extortion instead of the proper leag methods for dealing with pirates.

    I am FOR limited copyright, but how they go about it is apalling, inulting, and spits on our legal system. At this point I hope they go out of business....hell, I wouldn't even mourn if piracy drove them completly out of business.
    Another model will appear, and it will send a message the citizens can only be pushed so far.

    It may be their media, but it's out culture. Historically, these things go very bad for the leaders at the time.

    "This is why we elect individuals to lead. Because people behave like retarded sheep on crack."

    Who elected the MPAA? Who said it was alright for them to call upon our police men whenever they want to to storm through peoples houses? Who voted for letting the MPAA search any computers they want for no reason?

    People behave this way when there is an injustice, and it's a good thing.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  46. It's a number, not "technology" by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It may come down to how much /. wants to challenge any possible action by the HD-DVD association. Clearly, it's not copyrightable, so the only question is whether a pure number can fall under the anti-circumvention clauses of the the DMCA. Using your quote above, it's not "technology", it's not a device. Does it qualify? Probably it will take a trial to determine that.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  47. Re:Wow...just wow by tekrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Excuse me, but there are companies out there that buy and sell information about you, me and everyone else. Can I go out and have all that information suppressed? That's *my* information, and yet, every supermarket, potential employer, car dealership, hospital, etc., gets to profit and make use about information about ME, and yet, I don't see a dime of that money.

    Tell ya what. I'll agree not to pass around that NUMBER if every company agrees never to pass around my NAME, particularly to junk mail vendors and telephone marketeers.

    Why can't *you* see that it's exactly the same thing?

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  48. Re: Are you for real? by craznar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They did no such thing, they used their own computer, own time, own disk.... at no time did they break into anyone's house, computer....

    I buy a DVD, I own the disk, the holes, the metal - the bits. The only bit I don't own is the actual art content.

    To put it in the context of a book ... I own the paper AND the ink, just not the story.

    I can choose to read the book backwards, skip every second letter - and even read the boring publication bits at the front - all legally.

    So don't give me this crap that reading the bytes off a DVD I own is illegal.

    --
    EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
  49. My poem to the digg editors by JFMulder · · Score: 5, Funny

    Roses are #FF0000
    Violets are #0000FF
    All my encryptions
    Are belong to 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

  50. However... by Draconix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fark's doing so is not ironic. This sort of thing is normal, to be expected, and other synonyms for "not news." Digg, on the other hand, is "...all about user powered content. Everything is submitted and voted on by the Digg community. Share, discover, bookmark, and promote stuff that's important to you!"

    --
    By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
  51. Who will win? The MPAA or the users? Not digg by kinglink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because the losers here are digg's devs.

    First off Digg is a site for user content, but just as a note even a user content site can't allow just anything on their site. there's laws in the country and the best way to avoid crippling yourself is simple complying with them.

    Essentially the fans in this case are killing digg because now the MPAA will either get pissed off and sue digg, or digg will get pissed off and close the site. Either way the only people the fans will hurt is digg, the site they frequent.

    Btw the people telling Digg to stand up to the MPAA, shut the fuck up unless you got the money for their defense. Oh wait you arn't willing to pay millions for their legal fee? Digg is a site that's run for the fans, there's no huge cash pile of money hidden in the backroom. They arn't getting rich off Digg, they are just people who are creating a fan created news "blog" or link site. Asking them to stand up and fight for the right here is a joke as it will only cause them to close.

    And don't think slashdot will stand up to the MPAA if it comes to it. I'd like to believe they would but I doubt it. I respect this site but I also understand the simple fact, the MPAA can bankrupt pretty much any site like this, and while we should fight against this, unless you have the money for the legal fund don't demand anyone fight it.

  52. Re:Before this gets out of hand again... by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This has nothing to do with suppression of the free exchange of ideas. Except that the purpose of this key is to supress the free exchange of ideas.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  53. Hmm... Imagine, for a moment... by Zekasu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Imagine for a moment, a universe in which an organization regulates every word, every sound, and every thought of the public. No such a place should exist, but it does in the 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 zone.

    Enter, with the scene of a man by the name of Jones talking to another man, named Jack.

    Jones: This censorship has gone too far. I've lost my access to the world wide web.

    Jack: Why is that?

    Jones: I posted something on ... .com.

    Jack: ... .com?

    Jones: ... .com.

    Jack: I see.

    Let it be known that even the utterance of this website's location is forbidden in this place, as this zone that is very foreign, and very restricted.

    Jack: What did you post?

    Jones: A comment to a story about the freedom of speech.

    Jack: Was there something incriminating in your comment?

    Jones: I just posted "Oh nine, eff nine, eleven, ..."

    Enter two men, both dressed in black suits, with equally pitch black sunglasses covering their eyes. Both men look identical.

    First Man: Mr. Jones, please come with us.

    Jones: ... w-wha..?!

    The men each grab one of Jones' arms, and proceed to drag him screaming out of the doorway to the room he and the other man were once sitting in. As Mr. Jones' screams finally die away, the two men accompany Mr. Jones back into the room.

    Second Man: Mr. Jones, we appreciate your cooperation in this matter.

    A small amount of drool leaks out of Jones' mouth, as the men turn away, and walk out of the door.

    Mr. Jones, in another world, has become another silenced voice. However, this man is not as far away as it seems. For as many times as it has been portrayed amoung the media, the popular mass continues to be like Jones current voice, silent and dumbfounded. This reality of a world in which the utterance of a certain string leads to the permanent removal of one's rights may, however, not be as distant as it seems.

  54. actually it's Feb 11th by jmarkantes · · Score: 3, Informative

    REMEMBER The 1st of MAY.

    Actually it's February 11th.

    J

  55. They should have learned from Slashdot by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the things I like about Slashdot is how they handled the Cult of Scientology thing. Slashdot complied with style. Cowards, by contrast, have no style.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  56. The most common number in the universe by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Funny

    must be 09,F9,11,02,9D,74,E3,5B,D8,41,56,C5,63,56,88,C0

    Future data archaeologists will be dumbfounded by this number and will no doubt ascribe great religious significance to it.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  57. Now, Ladies and Gentlemen... by GFree · · Score: 3, Interesting
  58. SLASHDOT RULEZZ! by PeterHammer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Long Live /.

  59. Re:Wow...just wow by Sam+Ritchie · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't think people are "passing it around with the intent to circumvent a patented product'", they're passing it round because they've been told not to, and they feel that's unreasonable. Call it a campaign of civil disobedience. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of times it's been posted far exceeds the number of HD-DVD movies that have actually been sold.

    Also, I'm not an IP expert, but I'm fairly sure you can't patent a password, and I would question the assertion that distributing one is illegal.

    --
    This sig is false.
  60. Why strong IP law is so attractive: by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the answer is staring you in the face: as a nation, the U.S. imports a lot of physical goods, but exports a lot of intellectual property. Therefore, we reward companies who chisel their foreign suppliers into squeezing their employees, because this results in cheap imports here in the States. Likewise, we punish IP 'theft,' because IP is one of the last things that we seem to be able to produce and sell.

    Now, I'm no fan of the DMCA, because I think it causes more damage and economic loss, here in the U.S., than it can or will ever possibly create in new IP-export revenue. But the logic driving it, when you separate it from the implementation, isn't that hard to understand, at least from a certain point of view. Allow me to illustrate how I think many people see the problem:

    When we set aside irrational feelings of American exceptionalism -- those warm feelings that politicians always play to, when they talk about the "American worker" being the "best in the world" as if it was self-evident -- it is not immediately clear exactly how our previous success over the past century [1], necessarily translates into continued success in the future. In short, although everyone likes to say reassuring things like "Americans have always been at the forefront of innovation!", those words ring pretty hollow -- it's not clear why we would continue to be. We're not smarter than everyone else, our education system basically sucks, and we have a culture that's increasingly anti-intellectual and in some cases bordering on non-secular.

    What this boils down to is: in a fully globalized economy, it's not clear what areas the U.S. will have a comparative advantage in. We'll probably always be able to export some agricultural products, but agricultural products do not a first-world civilization pay for. Same with natural resources like coal and timber but we'll need them here eventually, so we'd just be selling ourselves down the river. So what do you have left, when you've outsourced everything that can be outsourced to lower-cost second- and third-world areas? I think Neal Stephenson was onto something: music, movies, microcode, and pizza delivery.

    'Pizza delivery' is the remaining service-sector crap that can't be outsourced. Music and movies are 'cultural exports,' things that for whatever reason, have a certain cachet in the rest of the world, and so don't really fall victim to direct price competition with foreign competitors. And microcode [1A] -- even if we're not the best at that, either, we'll use our monopoly to milk the rest of the world pretty good for as long as we can. But we can only do that if we can get them to buy into the legal framework which lets you sell IP as if it were physical goods. Hence, the DMCA and other 'strong IP' laws.

    All of this is just my rather long-winded way of trying to explain why so many people (people in government in particular) are hooked on strong IP law (including the DMCA, DRM, and anti-circumvention), and proprietary software: they see it as a way to ensure that the U.S. can still make money doing the only thing that we seem to be good at. It may not seem at first glance to make a whole lot of sense, particularly to non-Americans, but I've met a lot of fairly powerful people who are very, very nervous about where the New/Global Economy is headed, and how the U.S. is going to maintain its standard of living [2] in the future. If you're looking for a near-magic solution, which you are if you're a politician, grabbing onto intellectual property as the salvation of high-cost Western society probably isn't the stupidest thing you'll do all day.

    [1] Much of which is attributable to having had the good luck not to get involved in any home-turf land wars (like Europe, which got flattened, some of it twice) and getting on board the capitalism bus early (unlike Asia, which is just coming around to this whole market-economy business).

    [1A] I'm using "microcode" here to represent basically all IP-derived exports, which includes most pharmaceuti

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Why strong IP law is so attractive: by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think anybody really has trouble seeing the economic logic in IP protectionism. We just don't like it.

      Well, that's not terribly convincing. People who dislike protectionism 'religiously,' as many people do, really aren't helping anything -- they just make the free-trade argument look irrational (which in my book, is a pretty grave insult).

      There are some fairly good arguments against protectionism on purely economic grounds, because it's allegedly self-defeating in the long run, and they fail anyway. E.g., it's not worth prohibiting outsourcing, because in the near-term, it's impossible to enforce, and in the long term, it just drives businesses away or leads to domestic ones being overrun by foreign competition; the further you fight this process the worse it ends up hurting you in the end.

      Economic arguments like this are really the only valid basis for opposing protectionist policies -- just taking on faith that "protectionism is bad" and "free trade is good" is not going to satisfy people when the economy starts slowing down and they're looking for scapegoats. We're already starting to see this, and it's probably going to get worse.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    2. Re:Why strong IP law is so attractive: by UESMark · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nice comment, Hiro Protagonist.

    3. Re:Why strong IP law is so attractive: by Diamond+Tree · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your alarmism - unfortunately accepted as dogma by many, including the slashdot crowd which should have the intellectual firepower to overcome politician- and union-inspired sloganeering - simply doesn't match the facts. Real value-added US manufacturing has grown every year since 1987 except for during the 1990-91 and 2000-01 recessions. The US still has well over twice the global share of manufacturing than China. This is in spite of falling employment in U.S. manufacturing. Interesting, eh?

      It is common on Slashdot, in part because of the outsourcing of coding and coding-related jobs to India, to equate "cheaper manufacturing/production" with inevitable disappearance from our shores.

      If that were in fact true, then why haven't manufacturing jobs moved to Senegal, Ghana, Bangladesh or Haiti? Those places would clearly be cheaper. In actual fact, the US is still the cheapest when you consider what actually matters: productivity. How else could one explain falling manufacturing employment with increased real output globally? You recognize that the productivity of coders in India may be lower than that of an equivalent engineer in the US. However, the price differential means that paying for a less productive "employee" in India may be worth it.

      If you look at the US manufacturing sector, we have the highest productivity per worker in the world. In fact, it's easily the highest. Why do we still have steel mills? Why do we manufacture "Japanese" cars in the US? It is because US workers - and manufacturing workers are included - are generally the most efficient, productive workers in the world. Those that aren't lose their jobs to India, China, etc. Those that are keep attracting foreign investment. It's not an accident that The Economist calls the US the "world's manufacturer."

      Regarding fears of China "overtaking us" I have this to say: The US economy will remain the strongest and most dominant economy for some time - perhaps even for most or all of our lifetimes. Eventually China, by sheer dint of population, may outstrip us, but they're going to have many, many significant, huge, social problems before then. If China ever copies the fine pre-handover Hong Kong example which the British left the world, then move over U.S., because we're going to get trounced. In the meantime, China will simply remain a cheap place to manufacture lower-technology goods. I include computers and HDTVs in the "lower-technology goods" category. We shouldn't be trying to compete with China in those areas anyhow - it's a waste of our workers, who are the world's most efficient.

      > I think the answer is staring you in the face: as a nation, the U.S. imports a
      > lot of physical goods, but exports a lot of intellectual property.

      This is true, but it just proves our versatility as a nation and is only looking at half of the story (and not even in the "glass half-empty" kind of way). Look at China or Japan or Thailand or India: they export strongly in only a few areas and have historically not demonstrated the capacity to develop world-leading or world-beating companies in others. Compare Bollywood to Hollywood: They make far more movies in India than Hollywood does - but no one's running around in the streets screaming that they're about to take over the world's movie industry. The whole idea is ridiculous, and in case you think it's a bad example, I suggest you think more closely about the metaphor.

      > Therefore, we reward companies who chisel their foreign suppliers into squeezing
      > their employees, because this results in cheap imports here in the States. Likewise,
      > we punish IP 'theft,' because IP is one of the last things that we seem to be able
      > to produce and sell.

      That's just plain empirically false. Nike's not going to make sneakers in some plant in Oregon if they can get Malaysians to do the same job for $16 per day. They can afford to pay for ineffecient workers if they're comparatively cheap. We happen to produce and sell more

  61. Digg Management Has Officially Forfeited by Bueller_007 · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://blog.digg.com/?p=74

    Digg This: 09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
    by Kevin Rose at 9pm, May 1st, 2007 in Digg Website

    Today was an insane day. And as the founder of Digg, I just wanted to post my thoughts...

    In building and shaping the site I've always tried to stay as hands on as possible. We've always given site moderation (digging/burying) power to the community. Occasionally we step in to remove stories that violate our terms of use (eg. linking to pornography, illegal downloads, racial hate sites, etc.). So today was a difficult day for us. We had to decide whether to remove stories containing a single code based on a cease and desist declaration. We had to make a call, and in our desire to avoid a scenario where Digg would be interrupted or shut down, we decided to comply and remove the stories with the code.

    But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you've made it clear. You'd rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

    If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying.

    Digg on,

    Kevin

    1. Re:Digg Management Has Officially Forfeited by arrenlex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's fine. That's great. We've pretty much agreed that no one benefits if Digg tries to defend itself in court or "die trying" or any nonsense like that. The major problem is that stories were removed that talked about Digg removing stories -- and there is exactly no legal trouble which could possibly arise from these. Digg was trying to selfishly save face and prevent smearing of the company image. This pat-pat-it's-okay-don't-cry post doesn't respond in any manner whatsoever to the claim that Digg eventually censored its users purely for its own gain and tried to do so behind their backs hoping to keep them in the dark.

    2. Re:Digg Management Has Officially Forfeited by Askmum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Where in the whole have they made a simple, seemingly unimportant, decision?

      Deleting posts, deleting users because you "fear" a lawsuit, and even worse so: doing it without proper explanation? That is not a simple, seemingly unimportant, decision. That is just plain stupid.

      If you decide you don't want this key posted, say so. Don't go sneaking behind people's backs and shooting them unexpectingly. That's something Stalin did (phew, just narrowly escaped Godwin there).
      And why, of all the websites out there, do they want to be holier than the pope? I don't get it. This is not something you do in the spur of the moment. You never decide to kill posts and users in the spur of the moment. There always is some incentive behind that.

      Digg admins messed up. Big time.

  62. Digg is offline by xaviel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Digg is officialy offline, the revolt suceeded!!

    1. Re:Digg is offline by Piedramente · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess they are just taking it offline to let things cool down. It appears that they have had a change of heart and will fight the takedown notice.

  63. Digg Has Been Taken Down by kcornwell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    digg.com has been taken down.. 6:45 AM GMT

  64. too little too late by tedivm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the offical Digg blog, "But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you've made it clear. You'd rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

    If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying."

    At this point it looks like look much like a PR move. In an attempt to make themselves look good, they're acting like they're decided to take a stand against The Man, when in fact they're just bowing to pressure. Besides the fact that they just literally couldn't continue enforcing the censorship without turning off the site, they seem to ignore the fact that they didn't just remove articles containing the hex code, but articles containing the story of their censorship!

    Slashdot isn't making a big deal out of their lack of censorship, and they aren't issuing a war cry- but I can write F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 without having to worry about my account being deleted, and that means more to me than some half-assed excuse.

    Digg is attempting to shift the blame and rally a cause away from it, when it should be admitting that they all made a mistake and apologizing. Now its too late for them to gain the respect of their user base without a lot of long, hard work (if even that will be enough).

    1. Re:too little too late by NerdOfPrey · · Score: 2, Funny

      Still, an opportune moment to dust down those "Free Kevin" placards.

    2. Re:too little too late by McFadden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now its too late for them to gain the respect of their user base without a lot of long, hard work (if even that will be enough).
      Much as I'd love to believe you, I'd be willing to bet that in a month's time, Digg will be like nothing happened, all the loud-mouthed idiots who said they were quitting the site will be using it again, and nothing will have changed.
    3. Re:too little too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As James Madison wrote in Federalist 10 in 1787, fortelling Digg: "Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

  65. Holy God they did it! by n33kos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Digg went down!

    just moments ago, I am astounded by the power of people.

  66. Digg decides to stand up to the MPAA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Digg is currently down. This was the top of the page right before it went down.

    http://blog.digg.com/?p=74 [digg.com]?

    Digg This: 09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
    by Kevin Rose at 9pm, May 1st, 2007 in Digg Website

    Today was an insane day. And as the founder of Digg, I just wanted to post my thoughts...

    In building and shaping the site I've always tried to stay as hands on as possible. We've always given site moderation (digging/burying) power to the community. Occasionally we step in to remove stories that violate our terms of use (eg. linking to pornography, illegal downloads, racial hate sites, etc.). So today was a difficult day for us. We had to decide whether to remove stories containing a single code based on a cease and desist declaration. We had to make a call, and in our desire to avoid a scenario where Digg would be interrupted or shut down, we decided to comply and remove the stories with the code.

    But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you've made it clear. You'd rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

    If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying.

    Digg on,

    Kevin

    1. Re:Digg decides to stand up to the MPAA! by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I love the way he's trying to make himself out as some kind of goddamn hero just because his revolting customers forced him to reverse himself on something he never should have done in the first place. Fucking sellout!

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Digg decides to stand up to the MPAA! by Khisanth+Magus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, lets blame the guy who was attempting to keep himself from being sued and possibly more for ignoring a cease and desist order! Heaven forbid he try and protect himself and his site from legal action. His nerve in not listening to his users who are protected by anonymity, while he would be the one to bite the bullet!

    3. Re:Digg decides to stand up to the MPAA! by phorm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I dunno, sometimes it takes a bigger man to finally throw in an say "I screwed up and people are pissed", then set things rights.

      If only the government would take this attitude more often.

    4. Re:Digg decides to stand up to the MPAA! by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The worst part wasn't even that he did it, but that he tried to do it in secret. He wanted to cave and quietly remove these posts, but still keep Digg's "geek cred" by not publicly announcing he was doing it. It was only after Digg members realized what was going on and called them on it that he suddenly realized he wasn't going to get away with that.

      When /. pulled the Scientology comment, they owned up to it like men. Kevin Rose tried to hide it like a bitch. Then, we he got called on it, suddenly he's posturing like he's John Wayne or something.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  67. Re:Wow...just wow by tekrat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Did they put hard work and intellectual value into a randomly generated hexadecimal string? I don't think so either.

    I think the point I'm making is valid -- if they want to claim copyright on a NUMBER, I should be able to claim copyright on my NAME (and trust me, my name is pretty unique). I'm tired of other people buying and selling my NAME. My NAME is my property. And since my parents are dead, that property is mine by proxy.

    Either that, or I'll run out right now and copyright the number 12. And then issue DMCA takedown notices to every website, piece of software, TV show, and building elevator that uses the number which is my property.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  68. Re:P.S. Digg This by Fordiman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Update: 05/02 05:44 GMT by J : New blog post from Kevin Rose of Digg to its users: "We hear you.""

    From the post:
    "We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

    If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying."

    fuckin 'ey, Kevin!

    --
    110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
  69. Re:Five thousand 12-year-olds throw a temper tantr by Nogami_Saeko · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Well, Kevin Rose just pulled the plug on Digg (at least in a temporary sense).

    Today was an insane day. And as the founder of Digg, I just wanted to post my thoughts...

    In building and shaping the site I've always tried to stay as hands on as possible. We've always given site moderation (digging/burying) power to the community. Occasionally we step in to remove stories that violate our terms of use (eg. linking to pornography, illegal downloads, racial hate sites, etc.). So today was a difficult day for us. We had to decide whether to remove stories containing a single code based on a cease and desist declaration. We had to make a call, and in our desire to avoid a scenario where Digg would be interrupted or shut down, we decided to comply and remove the stories with the code.

    But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you've made it clear. You'd rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

    If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying.

    Digg on,

    Kevin


    I feel bad for Kevin - I don't believe that anyone legitimately upset by this whole situation wants Digg to die. Unfortunately the moderators made a number of bad decisions that only made things worse. Perhaps they should've allowed one story on the topic and had everyone comment there. Keep that page up until they have a legitimate, hand delivered paper DMCA takedown request. Then users' anger would be focused where it really belongs (read MPAA).

    With the moderators banning accounts and deleting posts, they took entirely the wrong approach, and are now suffering the consequences. Sadly, this may be a very, very hard lesson for Kevin / Digg.

    When you create a social networking/commenting site, knowingly or not, you put yourself at the mercy of a large number of people who can be extremely volatile. Not a whole lot of difference between that and a good, old-fashioned mob of real people.

    Here's hoping some good can come out of this whole unfortunate situation...

    N.
    --
    "Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
  70. Re:Change of Heart by McFadden · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'll say one thing for all of this. Although I think it's garbage and wouldn't normally watch it, I'll certainly be interested to see the next episode of Diggnation and see what those two bozos have to say for themselves after their car-crash of a site exploded.

  71. Slashdot Lied by yangsta · · Score: 2, Informative

    The main article made the key seem previously more popular on the internet than it actually is. Sure, you can do a search for it all spaced out separated by pairs, but after you get through the first hundred or so, most of the Google results are completely unrelated.

    Separated by dashes, there are 222 non-duplicated results.

    A search for the full key, without spaces, yields just 32 results.

  72. Regarding Kevin Rose's response by Xiroth · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From Rose's most recent blog post:

    But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you've made it clear. You'd rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

    To be honest, I'd say he's missed the point. The primary reason that his readers aren't unhappy isn't because of his team's moderating of the HD DVD code; at least, not directly. They're unhappy because the stories were taken down without explanation, users were apparently banned for simply doing what one is supposed to do on the site, and generally gave the impression that he had sided with them over us, which is never going to go down well.

    If he'd just been more up-front and honest about what was going on, things would have gone much more smoothly. Sure, there would have been grumbling and a few irrepressible rebels would have posted the stuff anyway, but I seriously doubt that the reader base would have caught fire like it did. The biggest issue, IMO, was that it gave the impression (if not the reality) of a breach of trust, and trust is possibly the key thing to have in any sort of community.
  73. Re:I'd like to say...(is pure flamebait) by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Insightful
    how the parent achieved +5 insightful is beyond me.

    Don't like gay PDA? Well, imagine how some gays feel about hetero PDA. (I'm straight, for the record). Don't like Pro-420 articles? Well, simple fact is pot never killed anyone - you pass out before you can overdose. But every years thousands of people die from ingesting perfectly legal liquor. Don't like people tweaking the corporate plutocracy by posting crypto keys? Well, then just roll over and let the corporations tel you what to think. Lord knows it's easier than doing it yourself. You're a Troll. A Class A Troll, and I am appalled that you've been modded so well. And when you get your knickers all bunched up, please think twice before posting like that - although, once would be a grand improvement.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  74. Way to fly your company into a hillside, dude. by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Beautiful! Kevin of Digg's Response has all the signs of an arrogant businessman who flipped the bird to his users, and was freaked out when they flipped the bird back. He even pulls out the "What about the Children Argument" claiming '(eg. linking to pornography, illegal downloads, racial hate sites, etc.)'. He then goes on to add 'If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying.' I mean, how childish. The guy made a bad call, and now he thinks he's Gandhi.

    The thing these arrogant upstarts forget is when you create something and the public use it, the public own it. Sure legally you have 'title', but if you try and mess with it the public will be at your throat. They've invested their time and effort in building up your business, and they're now a part of it too. MMPOGs like EverQuest and Star Wars Galaxies have discovered it the hard way, to the point Raph Koster warns upstarts once others use it, you cease to own it. But the message still hasn't got out.

    The smartest thing Kevin could have done is admitted a mistake and canceled the HD DVD Digg sponsorship to avoid conflict of interested. The smartest thing the board could do now is fire Kevin, before their investors see their hard earned cash peed up against the wall. The longer Kevin hisses and spits at his users, the more damage it does Digg. Digg dugg their own grave.

    (pause) feel the power, boys!

  75. Anti-censorship ribbons for your site by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I started a page for this, here. It contains ribbons that use 5 colors. The 5 colors are comprised of the "secret" hex code that is being suppressed. Interested parties are free to use these ribbons on their own sites. If you would like to link your ribbon to an explanatory page, I provide one here.

  76. Re:P.S. Digg This by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 2, Informative

    In building and shaping the site I've always tried to stay as hands on as possible. We've always given site moderation (digging/burying) power to the community.
    Hmm, isn't that hands off?
    --
    Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
  77. Re:I'd like to say...(is pure flamebait) by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Funny
    Don't like gay PDA? Well, imagine how some gays feel about hetero PDA.

    II'm pretty sure Sony Clie is gay. And I've always assumed my Palm V is hetero.

  78. I'll take....... by cowcabobism · · Score: 2, Funny
  79. Re:Am I the only one that understands why digg.com by asninn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's not the fact that Digg did it, it's why and how they did it. For example:

    1) Instead of complying with the law and then making a big announcement about how they had to do it even though they didn't want to, they apparently did it silently.

    2) Instead of just deleting the posts that were being complained about - heck, instead of just deleting the posts that actually contained the key - they apparently deleted everything relating to the whole thing, including discussions about free speech, censorship and so on that most certainly were not in violation of any law.

    3) Instead of just deleting the posts that were being complained about, they also deleted the accounts of the users who made those posts.

    4) And while this may just be a rumour, some people have also said that instead of waiting for a proper legal notice, they just deleted those posts when they were asked to by a group who financially supports them in some way (advertising, sponsoring or whatever).

    All this shows that the Digg founders had no integrity, no spine, no values. They're reversing their position now, but only because it's becoming abundantly clear that they'd have more to lose if they continued this way.

    (To elaborate on that... contrary to what that blog post by the Digg founder says, there really is no risk that Digg will die; rather, they will wait until they actually get a legal notice the proper way, and they will only do what they're legally required to do, which will allow them to say "we tried what we could, but the law is the law". This ultimately will let them keep their community, and in fact may strengthen their reputation, as it creates a new "us vs. them"; instead of "us-the-community vs. Digg", it's now "us-the-community-and-Digg vs. the *AA/DVDCCA/etc". If they continued as they did, on the other hand, they would risk alienating their community; not something that would likely kill them, either, but it'd mean less income and less significance, at least.)

    So that's the gist of it. Nobody's upset that they comply with the law (that's what they have to do, after all); what people are upset about is the lack of integrity that shows here.

    And from what I hear, there's been grumbling on Digg about censorship and sucking-up to big business for quite a while already, but without there ever having been any real proof, so this may well just have been the final straw.

    --
    butter the donkey
  80. How very clever.... by EmagGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First, HD-DVD is/was losing the format war, BIGTIME. So, who is to say that the HD-DVD consortium didn't conveniently "leak" the key in hopes that millions of geeks would run out and buy HD-DVD players? If I were a big movie studio contracted to the HD-DVD format, I might even go along with this depending upon how many of my movies were released under the "leaked" key.

    We're all being duped, I think. This whole thing is just a giant publicity stunt on the part of the HD-DVD consortium. Combine this with WalMart deciding to go HD-DVD-only, i think the tables may very well have turned to HD-DVD's favor.

  81. You think that's funny.... by Khyber · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What's funny is that Slashdot fucking forgot about theri own disclaimer at the bottom of EVERY FUCKING PAGE that says "All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster."

    Way to go, Slashdot.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:You think that's funny.... by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

      Comments are owned by the Poster.

      I don't see why a guy who's ever only posted one comment to this site gets to own everybody else's comments...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
  82. Re:I did that! by BronsCon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and Win 2003 server on the backend for storage

    I can't believe I didn't do it 5 years ago
    Unless Win 2003 was released in 2002, I can certainly believe you didn't do it 5 years ago. The math isn't that hard.
    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  83. Re:Five thousand 12-year-olds throw a temper tantr by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I feel bad for Kevin

    Oh, give me a break! The guy is trying to make himself out as some kind of hero just because his customers revolted and forced him to reverse himself on a decision he never should have made in the first place. His "We'd rather go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company" bullshit is about as sincere as Michael Richards' day-after-I-got-into-trouble dedication to racial justice.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  84. Re:P.S. Digg This by diamondsw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "We hear you, and effective immediately we won't delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be."

    Nevermind that this should have been the case all along, and the fact that it wasn't is deeply disturbing.

    Yet another reason to avoid the sewer that is Digg.

    --
    I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
  85. Re:I'd like to say...(is pure flamebait) by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Although I agree with the bulk of your statement, I'd be careful about saying things like "simple fact is pot never killed anyone - you pass out before you can overdose". Can you honestly tell me that no one has ever died from pot laced with something nasty? Or was so stoned they walked into traffic? Or crashed their car?

    It's one thing to argue from the basis of individual rights, or at least social and medical equavalence with alcohol. But some of the arguments for legalization of pot start to sound like marijuana is the wonder substance, with no side effects and no chance of abuse. Riiiggghhht - let me introduce you to some of my stoner friends from high school, and see what they even remember from 2 years of 3x/day. And what's with the "hemp will save the world" thing? I always get the feeling that, when Woddy Harrelson starts spouting off on hemp, it's simply a catspaw to get into marijuana legalization. Great - but lets be honest about our real goals, shall we?

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  86. This is an excellent point... by Chmcginn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can you honestly tell me that no one has ever died from pot laced with something nasty?

    This is an excellent point in favor of legalizing drugs. How often is there contaminantion of a batch of Jim Beam that makes people sick or kills them? Has there been any since Prohibition ended? But moonshine during Prohibition was often dangerous - homemade stills were much more likely to leech lead into the final product. Much like the 'but people steal to buy drugs', it's not a good arguement for keeping it illegal.

    Now, the driving/walking under the influence arguement is different - I would believe that more people would die that way. But if other recreational drugs were illegal, would alcohol remain as popular? I'm not sure, really. (IIRC, results from Amesterdam seemed to indicate no - roughly the same total number of people would be getting stoned or drunk, it just shifted the share about.)

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
  87. Re:P.S. Digg This by dubl-u · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One technicality, but an important one:

    The law doesn't matter in that case - it just means he can't get sued. His sponsors can still pull their funding[...]

    Unfortunately, nothing means you can't get sued. As one of my lawyers is fond of saying, "They can sue you for anything." The law decides whether or not you win, but there can be an awful lot of pain and expense between getting sued and winning.

  88. Re:P.S. Digg This by norminator · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In order to get Dugg, you must first title your article with "Coolest ... you'll ever see!!!"

    And the summary has to say "Title says it All"
  89. Re:Wikipedia is blocking this number also, by Teancum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Rather than complaining here on /. about "censorship" on Wikipedia, you can appeal in various talk pages about the topic.

    I think the main issue is that the number you are referring to here is not really a legitimate article name, and that a proper encyclopedia article about this topic can be done in a number of ways that doesn't necessarily use this number as the name of the article. Still, I don't see why it is a big deal to use the number in a redirect.

    This number is not being "censored" in the same way the Digg was doing it, and it certainly is not controvercial on Wikipedia at the moment, other than perhaps a couple of over-zealous admins. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here in your attempt to attack Wikipedia.

    Make a real article about this topic, and don't just complain about censorship when you can't write English worth a damn. If you think you can string two or more words together in a coherent fashion, and can dig up some legitimate sources for what the whole controversy is about (the /. posts about this have several useful links for such an article), I can't see that the article would be rejected. Or that its removal would be as controversial as you are making it out to be.

  90. Re:I'd like to say...(is pure flamebait) by phorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think it's also a matter of degree. People who constantly use mooshy pet-names, whether gay or straight, can be annoying. People heavily sucking face in public, annoying. A couple holding hands together never really bothered me, regardless of their orientation.

    What really bugs me goes beyond PDA though, it's when you get to have a parade, with people wearing nothing but chains, with a giant phallic balloon that squirts. I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be acceptable for straight people, so why is it for straight people.

    Around here, the local Gay & Lesbian society of the city of Kelowna petitioned to have funding for a parade. The answer they got back was fairly reasonable and straightforward: such an event would only promote the interests of a minority, and thus should be privately funded and not use taxpayer dollars. They weren't denied the right to the parade, just to fund it from public purse-strings. However, it went to litigation, and from my understanding the city was basically forced to fund the event.

    This happens a lot with minority groups or events, because many of these groups have a vocal element which tends to have a persecution complex. I've seen it on slashdot, for example here where a slashdotter indicates that victims of orientation-based bullying should get a special precedence.

    Again, this is just the current example, there are plenty of other situations. One of my best friends has a cousin who complained loudly of discrimination. He claimed that he had problems finding work and was looked down on because he was Native (which, locally, is somewhat the equivalent at times to being a person of colour in the US). As my friend pointed out to him: "dude, you look as white as me, and the only reason anyone knows you're native is because you bring it up all the time. And people don't like you because you start fights and steal cars"

    The point is that the grandparent it right, to an extent. Many people don't have a problem with group X. They do end up having a problem when group X pushes their own agenda into everyone else's face, or when it colours your point of view on every issue. I have friends who are native. Some aspects of their lives are coloured by their culture, and I can respect that. I have friends/relatives that are gay, and again I have respect for how it affects their lifestyles in both positive and negative ways. I don't mind at all being involved the activities of said groups, but I would if they started pushing it upon me. The problem is when the person becomes the category, and assume they must live their lives thus.

    I think it's much better to - if you have the opportunity - live life in a sane and normal manner. This means that you don't need to shout from the rooftops, unless a major issue is at hand. It also means that you can reasonably advocate your position. Some people have to spend every minute shoving their lifestyle in everyone else's face, when we are just trying to live our own, which in the end lessens your cause rather than furthers it. So by keeping things down at the level of "advocate" or "spokesperson" rather than "zealot", perhaps everyone can show a bit more tolerance.
    Oh, and for the record, there are cases when an uprising is warranted. Rodney King, being fired based on orientation, and many others, but these are specific times and events.

  91. Dear MPAA: Is this copyrighted too? by ProteusQ · · Score: 2, Funny

    hex2dec 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0

    ans =

              1.325627888798946e+37

    What about this?

    hex2num 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0

    ans =

            1.273668854538564e-260

  92. Hex code cannot be copyrighted by jonfr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    (Disclamer, I do not live in the U.S and I am not a lawyer.) The hex code cannot be copyrighted. It is also useless with out the tools to use. With out the necessary software to use the hex code, it is just a number that doesn't do a dam thing.

    In this case the encryption manufactures are clearly abusing DMCA law by demanding take down of the hex code, witch they have no copyright on, they also cannot call it a tool to break the hddvd / blueray encryption, because it isn't one. At least not the hex code alone. The best play for the people how get those take downs is to file a counter order (or what it is called) in accordance with the DMCA law and turn the game on the encryption manufacture. Old fashion riots are also good way to send a message, online or in the real world. It doesn't matter.

    It is also important for the big corps to release that our culture is based on sharing, land, water and so on. Music, movies goes into that also. Because if we didn't share, we would be at war with each other all the time.

    I live in a country where DMCA law do not apply so they can't threatend me with it.

    Hex: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0

    Also, here is the code in Decimal and Binary.

    Decimal: 218497016402258850000
    Binary: 10111101100001000001010101101100010101100011010101 101000000000000000

  93. Agreed. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That was a superb essay. I might print that out to hand to people, and I wish I had mod points for you.

    By all means feel free to distribute; consider it under the GFDL if you'd like to edit it.

    One of the problems I see with the American future is that two of those products -- music and movies -- are to a large extent dependent on the health of the country in general. If/when things start to turn really sour and we don't have as much money as a country, we're not the glamour spot of the world, then our culture will no longer be a defining one and our movies and music will be relevant only to us. I think the long-term viability of entertainment is based on the long-term viability of the culture. So that reduces us to exporting natural resources -- of which we still have lots -- or reacquiring manufacturing capabilities once our economy has slowed to the point where we can do that at the same price as third-world nations.

    I agree; and in fact this is one of the reasons why I think the position I outlined above is a bit shortsighted. Hollywood and the music industry are only able to export cultural products because 'Americana' in general carries a certain cachet in most of the world; if the perception of America as a nice/free/rich place slips, then over time, the popularity and marketability of those cultural exports will slip as well. (I think this is one of the reasons why the Bush administration is very unpopular among the Hollywood set -- they're dependent in large part on our image in the international arena in order to export their products.) And 'microcode' (which includes not only software but also pharmaceutical research and other IP) is dependent either on really being the best in the field -- which is tough, because our educational system is terrible at the hard sciences -- or on various forms of vendor lock-in, which are probably not stable in the long run.

    However, the solutions to these problems are very, very hard, and they involve really taking a look in the mirror that most Americans -- and certainly most politicans -- would rather not do. Nobody wants to do it, both because it's fundamentally depressing: for starters, you have to throw away all the irrational exceptionalist garbage that says we'll somehow magically succeed no matter what, because we're just that damn cool (or blessed by God, or whatever), and beyond that, there are a whole lot of industries that just can't be reasonably expected to continue in a fully globalized market, and are going to disappear. Nobody wants to tell a large section of the workforce "I'm sorry, but you just really cost way too much for what you do, and nobody's going to pay you to do it anymore."

    And even if you get past that, then you run into the hard issues about why we're failing to remain competitive; and IMO there are some serious cultural issues at work that need to be changed. A large part of America is borderline non-secular and strongly anti-intellectualist -- this is pretty deeply ingrained in our culture (and has not, historically, been a bad thing), but is probably not helpful if you're trying to find ways of leapfrogging the Chinese and Indians and remaining on the forefront of technological development purely on merit.

    I don't have any cute solutions or dogma to push; I don't think there's any easy way out or any free lunch. But I think that in order to reasonably oppose laws and stances that seem to be bad or counterproductive (the DMCA, etc.) it helps to first understand the underlying feelings that cause people to support it.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."