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Bill Gates' Management Style

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the behold-the-glorious-borg-icon dept.

replicant108 wrote in to give us Tom Evslin's fascinating account of working for Microsoft in the early 90s. "So you're in there presenting your product plan to billg, steveb, and mikemap. Billg typically has his eyes closed and he's rocking back and forth. He could be asleep; he could be thinking about something else; he could be listening intently to everything you're saying. The trouble is all are possible and you don't know which. Obviously, you have to present as if he were listening intently even though you know he isn't looking at the PowerPoint slides you spent so much time on. At some point in your presentation billg will say "that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." He looks like he means it. However, since you knew he was going to say this, you can't really let it faze you. Moreover, you can't afford to look fazed; remember: he's a bully."

66 of 362 comments (clear)

  1. Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by N8F8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The most important thing to have for any project is a CHAMPION. So if you aren't ready to champion your own idea then you are wasting everybody's time.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    1. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But not everyone can be a champion. You have to have followers to have leaders. Just because you are a follower doesn't mean you aren't smart, or not worthy of working on X project. You know what happens to corps where the leader/follower ratio is skewed? DOWNSIZING.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    2. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      True enough. Though if you found this article interesting, you should try reading Barbarians Led by Bill Gates. It's an insider's perspective on the going-ons inside of Microsoft in the early days. It's especially freaky to learn that they started coding much of Windows in BASIC. (Which I suppose comes as no surprise given that the Microsoft of the time was known as "the BASIC company".) Just like in this article, Gates was described as the King of the Hill with whom very few of the developers wanted to tangle.

      A particularly amusing anecdote was when the author was working on a clock application for Windows. He found the BASIC flood-fill routine to be buggy and quite poor, and set about to rewrite it. He then headed for Gates' office to tell him that he wanted to replace the existing flood-fill routine "because it was crap". (Or something to that effect.) Some of his coworkers tried to warn him off, but he headed straight in and showed off his work to Gates. After forcefully championing his work to Gates, Gates agreed to allow the fix. As he came out of Gates' office beaming, one of the coworkers said to him, "You know who wrote the original flood-fill routine, don't you?"

      Yep, it was Gates. And the author had just told him that his code was crap to his face. Doh! :-P

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    3. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by Maestro4k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The most important thing to have for any project is a CHAMPION. So if you aren't ready to champion your own idea then you are wasting everybody's time.

      There's a distinct difference between expecting someone to champion their project and being a bully and abusing them verbally. Telling every person that their project idea is "the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." is just being downright mean. Especially when you just glare at them coldly after they defend themselves (as the article points out).

      And then you get people who'll imitate the behavior without the smarts to back it up, so it becomes nothing BUT abuse. (Middle management for example.) I think Bill's management technique explains a lot about Microsoft's behavior over the years and why they're so disliked in the technical community. In fact looking back at how MS acted during their two biggest trials (the US anti-trust and EU anti-trust) you can see this "bullying" all over the place. Acting like a bully when you're the defendant in court is not a good idea. It'll just piss the judge (and possibly the jury) off, and they're the ones passing judgment on you.

      Besides, it's not like this technique has worked incredibly well for MS, especially in areas like security. MS has also put out some really lousy stuff over the years, like MS Bob, that were apparently "championed" all the way to release, then bombed. Maybe if Bill had developed a culture less focused on bullying they could have avoided some of those things, and saved money. When you force every one of your employees to defend their projects in such a manner then how many are going to be willing to listen when people point out problems with them? You can't have any second doubts if you have to defend your projects constantly, so people will stop listening to any criticism, leading to lower quality all around.

    4. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by JacksBrokenCode · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But not everyone can be a champion.

      Read TFA. "That meant that I and the other product managers...". Not everyone has to walk into a meeting like this with billg and stand this trial by fire. If you're a product manager, you should be the ultimate champion of your product.

    5. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." --Bertrand Russell

    6. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 5, Funny

      It was a test. And you failed. All of us.

      Like I was telling my daughter yesterday, the appropriate thing to do when you meet such a person is to drill them in the nose with your knuckles as hard as you can, unless they outweigh you by a significant margin, in which case you should hit them with a chair until they crumple to the ground.

      This is how you deal with bullies.

      You certainly don't turn yourself one after another into his bitch and make him rich as reward for his antisocial behavior.

      I bet Bill wears an "Everything I needed to take over the world, I learned from the bully in kindergarten" T-shirt to bed as a nightie.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    7. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by kalidasa · · Score: 4, Informative

      Melinda French was the product unit manager for Bob, Publisher, Encarta, and other "user-friendly" products. The project leader for Bob was apparently Karen Fries, and a quick search indicates a lot of research into things like "anthropomorphic" software, so it most likely was Karen Fries' idea.

    8. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I heard from people who work with international teams that this is the american way of doing. You need a champion, you need a super-hero who will be credited for the whole project. This is a bit shocking for other cultures I must say.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    9. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by chris_eineke · · Score: 4, Funny

      And the author had just told him that his code was crap to his face. Doh! :-P


      "And the soldier had just told him that torture was against Western values to his face. Doh! :-P"
      --
      "All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
    10. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not just mean; it's stupid. (And not just because being mean to people when you don't have to is stupid, although that's also true.) Kind of a "boy who cried wolf" thing -- if your boss tells you every single thing you come up with is stupid, sooner or later you're going to stop paying attention to his judgement at all, and just go ahead and do your own thing regardless of what he says. OTOH, if he tells you that your smart ideas are smart, then when he tells you that one of your ideas is stupid, you'll pay attention.

      Yes, I think this explains Microsoft's behavior in court ... and also the general bug-ridden bloat of pretty much all their software, even the stuff that (unlike Bob) succeeds on the market. If no one has any yardstick by which to judge their work, then course most of their work is going to be crap.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    11. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by Maestro4k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a world of difference between telling everyone that their idea is "the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." and testing potential hires on how they'd fine-tune a bubble sort. One's belittling and demeaning along with being untrue (and known to be untrue by the person saying it) most of the time. (You simply can't say this and it be true every time, also it's not just saying it's a bad idea, but the worst idea he's ever heard, making it much more difficult for the statement to be true.) The other one is seeing how creative someone is technically. In Google's case they're using this to judge the quality of potential employees before deciding whether to hire them or not. They're not alone in testing potential hires in such a manner, although they do seem to go above and beyond what most companies do.

      As far as adapting, Google seems to adapt better than Microsoft, at least so far. MS tends to ignore certain markets/new directions until it's completely obvious they were wrong and missed the boat. (The infamous move to go after the Internet is one good example of this.) MS also seems to be better at following others than leading, for example in Internet search and online advertising most recently. This is not to say that MS isn't ever innovative (I think their Live service for Xbox has been innovative at least in some areas), but that that they seem to follow other's innovations more than they innovate themselves. Google has a big advantage for adapting because of their letting employees spend 20% of their time on personal projects. When those projects become useful they can be launched as a company project/product and more people assigned to them. That allows them to try out tons of different directions continually. Also they keep improving their products and do so at a quicker rate than MS does, although MS is more hampered with their traditional release cycle for products like Office and Windows. Gmail is a good example there, new features still get added even though it's no longer considered beta, and the product today is far more useful than it was at launch.

      As far as Google Apps goes the whole point is that it's an online app, I wouldn't expect to see an offline component anytime soon. I do expect to see them offer servers that you can run on your local LAN/WAN with versions of Google Apps on them that'll address some of the concerns about losing access to the apps if your Internet connection goes down. You can get a local search appliance now, so I think it's just a matter of time. I suspect they've not worked out all the details yet on how they'll maintain those Apps Appliances and keep them updated and that's why they aren't offering them already.

    12. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Funny

      Like I was telling my daughter yesterday, the appropriate thing to do when you meet such a person is to drill them in the nose with your knuckles as hard as you can, unless they outweigh you by a significant margin, in which case you should hit them with a chair until they crumple to the ground.

      Forget it. The chair would get to within a foot of Bill's nose before being parried by Darth Balmer's lighting counterstrike. Bill would then begin a wide gaped laughing as their pair of you batter each other back and forth across the meeting room to a backdrop of animated powerpoint slides and starfield screensavers.

      Two important facts stand against you
      1) Balmer is not related to you
      2) There are no impossibly deep shafts nearby.

      Even if your friends managed to get the firewalls down, how are they going to get all the way into the heart of Redmond campus to save your fallen ass? You gave into your anger. Such is the reward of the dark side.
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    13. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by RealGrouchy · · Score: 3, Funny

      Even if he didn't realize it at the time, telling off the richest guy in the world is pretty frickin' awesome.

      Keeping your job after it is just icing on the cake!

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    14. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by tourvil · · Score: 4, Funny

      Two important facts stand against you
      1) Balmer is not related to you
      2) There are no impossibly deep shafts nearby.

      I'm not so sure about #1. He did suggest using a chair as a weapon...
    15. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by vingt · · Score: 5, Funny

      "French" and "Fries" worked together? Who knew?

    16. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by fwarren · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It is abuse....period

      I have worked with several types of managers over the years. It may be my own personal preferences, but I WILL NOT work in that kind of environment. It is one thing to sit around with friends, and have them kick your idea to the curb and having to defend it. It is another thing all together when someone you are working for who is inscrutable pulls that on you.

      I have worked for a boss like that. He would look at you with the cold dead snake eyes, and ask you a question. He has already decided in his mind what response he wanted, and if you did not give it, you were demoted or fired. The problem was, he would either ask you question a) something he believed in and wanted you to champion the idea to him, or b) some straw man, which you had to strongly disagree with. He was always very quiet and never let anyone in on where the company was going or what he was thinking, everyone was always having to take the multiple choice quiz. There was only one manager that had been with him 15 years, everyone else was 5 years or less.

      For me, that did not work. I like having an idea what the boss is thinking. Being able to get my job done, not having to ask stupid questions, and then being able to anticipate what they might need in the future and providing that for them. Quite frankly between working at a place where any question could be my demise, and my employer is thinking, well a new higher will make $2.00 less an our. Or a job where they apologize for giving you a 25% raise the first year you are there, because it is not any larger than that. I will take the second job. Which by the way, does not come with the boss who is a bully.

      On the plus side, yes Windows is the monopoly that it is today. On the downside, they have championed legacy compatibility at the cost of security. Finally we arrive at Vista, a prodcut that is out of touch with it users. Who needs it? Businesses? Home users? What is it's target audience? What does it do better than XP? Vista is like a car that costs 4 times as much as last years model, is larger, gets less than half of the mpg of last years model. It has less trunk space but "a bitching dashboard", with all of the controls and readouts moved from what everone else has used in the industry for the last 50 years.

      What kind of thinking do you think it took to make that product, what kind of leadership. What items were championed into the prodcut, and what items where championed and pushed the backer of it out the door? By which I mean, this bully attitude is NOT working for Microsoft. They are not going to stay "an industry leader" if they keep working that way.

      --
      vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    17. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You do realize that this is the attitude all bullies have? "They were clearly in the wrong. Its not my fault, they deserved it."

      No.

      What I realize is that bullies walk around with the sense that they are entitled to dominate people around them, and they attempt to surround themselves with people who will let them. They create auras of fear around themselves because they surround themselves with people who are afraid of them, and they wield these scared people to achieve more power.

      I realize that the bully exists in a state of fear, because they know they are riding the tiger and their strength rests in the tenuous state they have created. And those who surround them, regardless of how tough they seem, are there precisely because they are easily cowed and dominated by someone with a strong will and no fear.

      The whole thing is easily torn down if you possess an absolutely heartfelt failure to give a shit and a preparedness to push it as far as it needs to be pushed.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    18. Re:Champoined Needed - Sounds Good To Me by tsa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To one degree or another and how choose to interpret things, you just described just about everyone in society.

      American society maybe. America definitely is a fear-driven society. But there are other ways to live. Unfortunately, many politicians in Europe now also choose to frighten and bully their people. No wonder terrorist threats are up.

      --

      -- Cheers!

  2. And that idea was... by Tuoqui · · Score: 5, Funny

    Linux?

    --
    09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    +2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
    1. Re:And that idea was... by Cyberax · · Score: 3, Funny

      Trusted Computer Platform/Intellectual Property?

  3. "that's the dumbest fucking idea..." by toby · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...And we can be sure he gets to hear a lot of dumb ideas.

    But why greenlight them, bill?

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:"that's the dumbest fucking idea..." by Tribbin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh my god, I read TFA and the first thing I wondered:

      1. invent 'clippy'
      2. "That's the dumbest fucking idea..."
      3. ???
      4. clippy get's accepted

      That poor guy must have gone through some hell in #3 there.

      --
      If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
    2. Re:"that's the dumbest fucking idea..." by joekool · · Score: 5, Funny

      wasn't the project manager for clippy his future wife?

      via the MS Bob project anyway...

      puts number 3 in a different light.

      --

      Slackware: old school feel, new school gear.
    3. Re:"that's the dumbest fucking idea..." by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or perhaps it makes 2 parse diffrently.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:"that's the dumbest fucking idea..." by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

      wasn't the project manager for clippy his future wife?

      Future wife: "And then this dancing paper-clip asks you if you are trying to write a letter."

      (Gates is rocking with his eyes closed)

      Gates: "That's the dumbest fucking idea I've ever heard."

      Future wife starts crying.

      Gates opens eyes and sees her tight crotch and big tits:

      Gates: "On second thought, it wouldn't hurt to try it out."

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
  4. I know I wouldn't last long by capebretonsux · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wouldn't last very long at Microsoft, by the sounds of it.

    "that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft."

    And 'Clippy' was a great idea?

    1. Re:I know I wouldn't last long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The actual Great IdeaTM here was MS Bob. Clippy derived from there. MS Bob was managed by Melinda French, now a.k.a. Melinda Gates. You don't say "that's the dumbest fucking idea" to your gf. So Clippy was hired essentially to try not to waste all the effort that went into creating the totally flopped Bob.

    2. Re:I know I wouldn't last long by happyemoticon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, as coarse as his management style is/was, a key ingredient in its success may have been in the fact that he's a really smart guy who wants to be convinced of why your ideas are right, and while he's a tough customer, he can be convinced.

      Now, there are a lot of boneheads on Planet Earth. Everybody has worked under a PHB who you have to practically subvert in order to keep your company afloat. But far more insidious are smart people who don't know how to argue or debate - or, if they do, replace actual discussion with fallacy. They use tactics such as circular arguments, attrition, argument from authority, ad-hominem attacks and stonewalling to prevent any actual reason from taking place. And usually, they're the most powerful person in the room, so your only option is to say, "Actually, sir, you haven't responded to any point I've made, and I think some outside factor is influencing your decision." Yippee.

    3. Re:I know I wouldn't last long by wenchmagnet · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not only MS Bob / Clippy, but Melinda should also be credited for coming up with the name "Microsoft" for Bill's company shortly after their third date!

    4. Re:I know I wouldn't last long by ClosedSource · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it's because many people who reach a high management position within a company didn't get there by placing the needs of the company before their own career. At that level it's more about politics and self-promotion than it is about performance. I'm sure that these difficult bosses are considered great guys by the people whose asses are being kissed.

  5. This explains a lot by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At some point in your presentation billg will say "that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." He looks like he means it. However, since you knew he was going to say this, you can't really let it faze you. This explains why no one put a stop to IE, ActiveX, UAC, etc. when he said it. So I guess Mr. Gates isn't responsible for everything wrong at Microsoft ... it's the people who didn't listen to his good judgment. ;-)
    1. Re:This explains a lot by twitter · · Score: 3, Funny

      So I guess Mr. Gates isn't responsible for everything wrong at Microsoft ... it's the people who didn't listen to his good judgment. ;-)

      That's the dumbest fucking thing I've seen since I've been at Slashdot.

      Oh wait, that's a joke. Never mind, but I'm still not responsible for anything but your success.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  6. It's all about presentation. by PhxBlue · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe you should've spent less time on the PowerPoint slides and more time thinking about how your idea was going to (figuratively) grab Billg around the throat and shake him until he said, "That's the best idea I've ever heard since I've been here at Microsoft."

    I mean, shit, do you really think you're going to impress the CEO of Microsoft with a PowerPoint presentation, of all things?

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    1. Re:It's all about presentation. by writermike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe you should've spent less time on the PowerPoint slides and more time thinking about how your idea was going to (figuratively) grab Billg around the throat and shake him until he said, "That's the best idea I've ever heard since I've been here at Microsoft."



      I mean, shit, do you really think you're going to impress the CEO of Microsoft with a PowerPoint presentation, of all things?

      I've worked with bosses like that. Presuming you could impress them, they'd never let you know it. They still tell you your idea sucks and that you suck and that they don't understand why they hired you in the first place. They wish you were dead, sock you in the gut, etc. They're bullies. That's the point of the article, I think.

      In general, however, I don't know if this story is an example of 'billg' so much as it is an example of asshole bosses, of which there are legions.
      --
      If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
    2. Re:It's all about presentation. by Taagehornet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It might also be that the idea wasn't any good after all...

      Not all former MS employees hold a grudge. Joel Spolsky appears thoroughly impressed with his former boss: My First BillG Review

    3. Re:It's all about presentation. by egyptiankarim · · Score: 4, Funny

      I remember learning about this managerial style from George Bluth who constantly shot down his son's business ideas in order to keep him constantly striving to gain his approval. I'm still waiting to read the Slashdot post about BillG burning his hands on a cornballer :)

      --
      Eek!
  7. Poker by Tribbin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No wonder he's ####ing good at poker.

    Oh, go see 'Pirates of Silicon Valley'. You'll enjoy it.

    http://imdb.com/title/tt0168122/

    --
    If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
  8. reminds me of the stories about Henry K. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After a State Dept. staffer turned in their first report to the big boss, it would frequently come back with a scrawled note indicating it was totally unacceptable, slipshod work, etc. The staffer would go back and spend the next couple weeks furiously researching and revising before submitting a completely rewritten draft. Back would come the comment that it was "not good enough -- should be much more thorough". After another three weeks of research, the staffer would add a cover letter to the latest rewrite begging the boss to specify where the report fell short, since the staffer had now spent practically all of their waking hours over the past two months working on it, etc.

    "In that case", Kissinger would say, "I'll read it".

  9. Creepy... by oogoliegoogolie · · Score: 3, Funny

    "that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at xxxxxxx."

    I've heard rumors that that the same line can be heard at my corporation, in addition to fist-on-desk pounding, and finger pointing. No chair-throwing though, yet.

  10. So he's copying from Steve Jobs too? by aristotle-dude · · Score: 4, Funny
    From TFA:

    At some point in your presentation billg will say "that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." He looks like he means it. However, since you knew he was going to say this, you can't really let it faze you. Moreover, you can't afford to look fazed; remember: he's a bully." That sounds a lot like Steve Jobs except for the closed eyes and rocking back and forth. Couldn't Bill Gates even come up with an original management style?
    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  11. Obviously by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful
    that may be one way of managing things. It may just be that he tries to unbalance the presenter and see if the presenter is able to catch up. If the presenter is catching up then the idea may not be so bad after all... But the problem here is that this will be much more dependent on the presenter than the idea itself, so in the end it's not a really good filter for good/bad ideas.

    This is usually the problem within any organization - people with good ideas but bad presentation skills can either develop the ideas and ask forgiveness later or forget about the whole idea unless they can get the idea to someone that's a good presenter.

    It will be far better management style to actually give constructive criticism, but that is also a lot harder.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    1. Re:Obviously by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

      Are you saying that management should instead focus on the concepts behind the presentation rather than the quality of the presentation itself? Cos if so, that's the dumbest fucking idea I've ever heard. ; )

      --
      This guy's the limit!
  12. MS in the early 90s by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 5, Insightful

    msshill: "So Bill, this world wide web thing is really starting to take off in the academic world. I think it's time we started making our own browser and include it with all installs of Windows."
    billg: "That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft."

    Yep, sounds about right...

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  13. Joel on BillG by Lachryma · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Reminded me of Joel on Software's first BillG review and how he handled it.

    1. Re:Joel on BillG by rikkus-x · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds like he handled it like a teenage girl meeting her pop idol.

  14. Re:That Borg Icon by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Funny

    "And Bill Gates isn't even the CEO of Microsoft anymore. He is the chairman."

    I thought steve ("I'll fucking bury them") is the "chair-man" ...

  15. Sounds like Law & Motion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Bill Gates' dad is a lawyer. He came from a family where "cross-examination" in a legal sense probably went on from time to time (i.e. questioning a hostile witness). It sounds like he was inculcated with the culture.

    Also, when dealing with judges, particularly when the witnesses or jury are out of the room, lawyers can face something that can be pretty similar to what was described here. So, ok, it's hard on the computer scientists, but welcome to what lawyers get to deal with all the time. It's an accepted practice.

    Long and short of it--make sure your thinking is done BEFORE you present. Otherwise, as is to be expected, you're toast, whether the "toasting" is done by the CEO or a judge.

  16. Ah the joys of alpha male management style by Flying+pig · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I had one of those bosses. Only my idea wasn't just dumb fucking stupid, I took too long to tell it. (Well, he did have a degree in journalism, and you could see how that would fit you for CEO of a tech company.)

    Only, being naive and not realising this was just challenge #101, I left, joined a small company which just grew and grew, then left after a difference of opinion with the CEO, then joined a startup which just grew and grew. Interestingly, our CEO is able to motivate people without a single swearword.

    It's nice for Microsoft that it is so big and all, but (as Scott Adams notes somewhere, I think) all the really smart people prefer to live in Switzerland as compared to the US, i.e. to live somewhere where even politics is truly local and individualism is valued versus somewhere where the driving forces in society are completely out of your control and individualism is just having a different alignment of ballpoints in the pocket protector.

    It must have been really exciting and creative to work for Microsoft - once. Perhaps some of the pent up anger in the founders, if it is reported accurately, is simply because, even for them, it's no fun anymore.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:Ah the joys of alpha male management style by jcr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's not alpha-male management style, it's beta-male with something to prove management style. What you could also call the Napoleon complex. Bill Gates is a revenge-of-the-nerds type, who doesn't have the character to behave decently when he's in a position of power.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  17. Almost Right. I fixed it for you by HighOrbit · · Score: 3, Funny

    msshill: "So Bill, this world wide web thing is really starting to take off in the academic world. I think it's time we started making our own browser and include it with all installs of Windows."
    billg: "That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft. By contrast, over here is the best idea I've seen in a long time; its a new user-interface paradigm. I call it 'Bob'"
  18. Shock and awe by akypoon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's a pretty common tactics to throw your presenter off guards. Some people use this as a way to gauge the competency of the presenter. I know one university professor who is famous (or notorious, depends on your perspective) for using this tactics.

    1. Re:Shock and awe by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some people use this as a way to gauge the competency of the presenter.

      Or he could just be an asshole.

  19. The Story of Bob by hansamurai · · Score: 4, Funny

    melindaf: So I've got this great idea, it's this little smiley face that helps you manage your tasks and do your work!

    billg: That's the dumbest-

    melindaf: You want some tonight or not?

    billg: ...

    melindaf: How about we call it Bob.

    --
    Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
  20. Don't let me get in the way... by Jeian · · Score: 5, Informative

    Don't let me get in the way of everyone's dogmatic Gates-hate, but Linus Torvalds operates in a similar way.

    "I'm always right. This time I'm just even more right than usual." Torvalds, Linus (2005-07-14). Message to linux-kernel mailing list. Retrieved on 2006-08-28.

    "If you still don't like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do." Torvalds, Linus (1996-07-22). Post to comp.os.linux.advocacy newsgroup. Retrieved on 2006-08-28.

    That's all, return to your ranting.

    1. Re:Don't let me get in the way... by Maestro4k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't let me get in the way of everyone's dogmatic Gates-hate, but Linus Torvalds operates in a similar way.

      "I'm always right. This time I'm just even more right than usual." Torvalds, Linus (2005-07-14). Message to linux-kernel mailing list. Retrieved on 2006-08-28.

      "If you still don't like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do." Torvalds, Linus (1996-07-22). Post to comp.os.linux.advocacy newsgroup. Retrieved on 2006-08-28.

      This isn't comparable to what Gates is doing in the article. According to that Gates would tell everyone that their idea was "the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." and didn't really mean it. He was saying it simply to make the presenter defend their idea, not saying "you're wrong and we're not going to do it that way". In both of the above quotes Linus is seems to be saying that he's right and that they will be doing it his way.

      Linus could certainly be more tactful with how he worded those things, but I do note a distinct lack of cussing and (at the least) less drastic hyperbole. And how about some context to those quotes? On the second one at least I found you left off a bit before that that makes the whole thing much less worse than it sounds: "In short, at least give the penguin a fair viewing. If you still don't like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do." I don't think it's unreasonable for Linus to be taking that attitude about the mascot that will define the OS that he created. He was apparently listening to input on it anyway, more than you can say for most people in that situation.

  21. Stop cowering before managment... by Original+Replica · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never understood why people don't just leave in workplaces like that. It' s not like you have some good reason for company loyalty if the management is indeed a bunch of irrational fucktards. Don't just quietly leave, explain clearly why you are leaving. You like the job and the pay is fine, but there is too much internal bullshit to make the job worthwhile. When Billg says "That's the dumbest idea I've heard ..." respond by saying "You are wrong, it is an excellent idea. Your criticism is niether constructive, nor professional. I will be taking my ideas elsewhere." Then immediately leave the room, perhaps the building. So before you present your idea to Billg you should look for a new job. Hopefully you won't need the new job if Billg actually does see the value of you idea, but much more importantly he will also have to acknowledge the value of you. Sure, he still might want you to prove your idea to him, but Bill Gates is smart enough to be able to come up with insightful questions without being rude. I can only imagine this technique is an artifact of Bill Gates being, on some level, scared shitless of the size and responsiblity that MS has become. It's a "trick" that might work with some reliablity, but it's something he should have outgrown long ago. Management can only treat employees like shit when we let them, they need us at least as much as we need them. Following these princples I've doubled my income (and respect from managment)in the last three years. No, not all of this happen with one employer. I did have to walk away from one stable, but poor quality of life, job.

    --
    We are all just people.
    1. Re:Stop cowering before managment... by dcollins · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't just quietly leave, explain clearly why you are leaving. You like the job and the pay is fine, but there is too much internal bullshit to make the job worthwhile. When Billg says "That's the dumbest idea I've heard ..." respond by saying "You are wrong, it is an excellent idea. Your criticism is niether constructive, nor professional. I will be taking my ideas elsewhere." Then immediately leave the room, perhaps the building. So before you present your idea to Billg you should look for a new job.

      That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been on Slashdot.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  22. another conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    billg: "that's the dumbest fucking idea i've heard..."
    presenter: "this is madness!"
    billg: "THIS IS MICROSOFT!!!" *looks at steveb and points to a chair*

  23. Sounds like a great manager by rjamestaylor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That story of the Flood-fill rewrite makes Billg sound like a great manager. So does being the richest guy in the world...

    --
    -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  24. Untouchable crap by toby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This parable illustrates how personal defects get in the way of quality. If the code is crap, the code is crap, no matter who wrote it. If politics or sensitive egos block improvements, quality suffers. Compare EgolessProgramming.

    This "my code is perfect" attitude is alive and well. A friend of mine started a new job recently and found that his boss:

    • Considered himself in the top 1% of programmers
    • Described every line of code he had written for the company's application as "perfect"
    • Refused to use any version control system, yet was part of a team
    • Wrote no comments, and no documentation
    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:Untouchable crap by 75th+Trombone · · Score: 4, Informative

      This parable illustrates how personal defects get in the way of quality.

      Dude, did you even read the comment you were responding to?! It said that Gates ALLOWED THE FIX!! I mean, I don't think Bill Gates is some kind of role model or anything, but having someone come into your office to unwittingly call your own code "crap" to your face, and then going along with what that person says, is NOT a "personal defect" of any kind.

      --
      The United States of America: We do what we must because we can.
  25. Re:That Borg Icon by kalidasa · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let me guess - that's the dumbest f***ing icon you've seen in all your time on Slashdot?

  26. How to make a company work by bullying by robla · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ....is not an interesting problem to solve.

    It's hard to argue that Gates' persistent bullying was anything but good for shareholders for at least the first 13 years of public trading. Even though the stock price has been relatively stagnant for the past few years, revenue and profit growth are proof that the company still has healthy numbers.

    However, anyone considering working there needs to ask themselves what they really want to accomplish in life. Looking back, it can't be very fulfilling to say "I helped make that company successful. I fit in, by emulating the bullying, belittling style of my bosses all the way to the top, and now look what we've created!"

    There are plenty of companies out there (*cough* [1]) who are trying to be successful while actually also having the kind of environment where you look forward to seeing the people you work with. Having hippy-dippy ideals creates plenty of problems, but they are way more interesting problems than the problems you find at a company like Microsoft.

    1. Shameless plug

  27. The Actual Correct Response by jbrader · · Score: 5, Funny

    When billg says, "That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft," what you should reply is, "Bullshit, how could it be any dumber than a talking paper clip?"

    --
    You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
  28. Re:I worked for Evslin - he's not all that by JustNiz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >> Exchange Server did more to make email a reality for corporates than any other product.

    Not at all.

    Many companies had unix-based email WAAY before Exchange even came out. Then when it did, some non-technical higher-up usually decides the company should 'upgrade' to Microsoft exchange.

    I've been at several companies where exactly this happened and exactly the same result too: Before the upgrade, we had an email system that just worked, and never needed any maintenance. After we switched, we needed to hire a whole office of support staff to deal with the day-to-day issues of ongoing Exchange problems.

    I'm always surprised how long its taken them to come round to moving back to Unix/Linux solutions, but they all did in the end.