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Bill Gates' Management Style
replicant108 wrote in to give us Tom Evslin's fascinating account of working for Microsoft in the early 90s. "So you're in there presenting your product plan to billg, steveb, and mikemap. Billg typically has his eyes closed and he's rocking back and forth. He could be asleep; he could be thinking about something else; he could be listening intently to everything you're saying. The trouble is all are possible and you don't know which. Obviously, you have to present as if he were listening intently even though you know he isn't looking at the PowerPoint slides you spent so much time on.
At some point in your presentation billg will say "that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." He looks like he means it. However, since you knew he was going to say this, you can't really let it faze you. Moreover, you can't afford to look fazed; remember: he's a bully."
The most important thing to have for any project is a CHAMPION. So if you aren't ready to champion your own idea then you are wasting everybody's time.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Linux?
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
...And we can be sure he gets to hear a lot of dumb ideas.
But why greenlight them, bill?
you had me at #!
I wouldn't last very long at Microsoft, by the sounds of it.
"that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft."
And 'Clippy' was a great idea?
Maybe you should've spent less time on the PowerPoint slides and more time thinking about how your idea was going to (figuratively) grab Billg around the throat and shake him until he said, "That's the best idea I've ever heard since I've been here at Microsoft."
I mean, shit, do you really think you're going to impress the CEO of Microsoft with a PowerPoint presentation, of all things?
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
No wonder he's ####ing good at poker.
Oh, go see 'Pirates of Silicon Valley'. You'll enjoy it.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0168122/
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
After a State Dept. staffer turned in their first report to the big boss, it would frequently come back with a scrawled note indicating it was totally unacceptable, slipshod work, etc. The staffer would go back and spend the next couple weeks furiously researching and revising before submitting a completely rewritten draft. Back would come the comment that it was "not good enough -- should be much more thorough". After another three weeks of research, the staffer would add a cover letter to the latest rewrite begging the boss to specify where the report fell short, since the staffer had now spent practically all of their waking hours over the past two months working on it, etc.
"In that case", Kissinger would say, "I'll read it".
...you should see that bastard during the regular mandatory Satanic rituals that all MS employees must attend. Suffering a powerpoint is nothing compared to watching the flying entrails of an infant. The company gym and caf is nice and all, but I'm wondering if I made the right decision.
"that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at xxxxxxx."
I've heard rumors that that the same line can be heard at my corporation, in addition to fist-on-desk pounding, and finger pointing. No chair-throwing though, yet.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
This is usually the problem within any organization - people with good ideas but bad presentation skills can either develop the ideas and ask forgiveness later or forget about the whole idea unless they can get the idea to someone that's a good presenter.
It will be far better management style to actually give constructive criticism, but that is also a lot harder.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
msshill: "So Bill, this world wide web thing is really starting to take off in the academic world. I think it's time we started making our own browser and include it with all installs of Windows."
billg: "That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft."
Yep, sounds about right...
This guy's the limit!
I worked at MS on the VS.NET IDE - a coworker who demoed to Gates told me that the guys who demoed CLR in the same meeting were white as a ghost when he was done with them (though we're nerds in redmond so we didn't get much sun anyway). Apparently CLR was a little slow.
Reminded me of Joel on Software's first BillG review and how he handled it.
"And Bill Gates isn't even the CEO of Microsoft anymore. He is the chairman."
I thought steve ("I'll fucking bury them") is the "chair-man" ...
Bill Gates' dad is a lawyer. He came from a family where "cross-examination" in a legal sense probably went on from time to time (i.e. questioning a hostile witness). It sounds like he was inculcated with the culture.
Also, when dealing with judges, particularly when the witnesses or jury are out of the room, lawyers can face something that can be pretty similar to what was described here. So, ok, it's hard on the computer scientists, but welcome to what lawyers get to deal with all the time. It's an accepted practice.
Long and short of it--make sure your thinking is done BEFORE you present. Otherwise, as is to be expected, you're toast, whether the "toasting" is done by the CEO or a judge.
Only, being naive and not realising this was just challenge #101, I left, joined a small company which just grew and grew, then left after a difference of opinion with the CEO, then joined a startup which just grew and grew. Interestingly, our CEO is able to motivate people without a single swearword.
It's nice for Microsoft that it is so big and all, but (as Scott Adams notes somewhere, I think) all the really smart people prefer to live in Switzerland as compared to the US, i.e. to live somewhere where even politics is truly local and individualism is valued versus somewhere where the driving forces in society are completely out of your control and individualism is just having a different alignment of ballpoints in the pocket protector.
It must have been really exciting and creative to work for Microsoft - once. Perhaps some of the pent up anger in the founders, if it is reported accurately, is simply because, even for them, it's no fun anymore.
Pining for the fjords
Actually, I think it's Balmer who is the chair-man.
It's a pretty common tactics to throw your presenter off guards. Some people use this as a way to gauge the competency of the presenter. I know one university professor who is famous (or notorious, depends on your perspective) for using this tactics.
melindaf: So I've got this great idea, it's this little smiley face that helps you manage your tasks and do your work!
...
billg: That's the dumbest-
melindaf: You want some tonight or not?
billg:
melindaf: How about we call it Bob.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Don't let me get in the way of everyone's dogmatic Gates-hate, but Linus Torvalds operates in a similar way.
"I'm always right. This time I'm just even more right than usual." Torvalds, Linus (2005-07-14). Message to linux-kernel mailing list. Retrieved on 2006-08-28.
"If you still don't like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do." Torvalds, Linus (1996-07-22). Post to comp.os.linux.advocacy newsgroup. Retrieved on 2006-08-28.
That's all, return to your ranting.
If this subject interests you, then you should also read Joel Spolsky's account of his first BillG review: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.htm l
I've never understood why people don't just leave in workplaces like that. It' s not like you have some good reason for company loyalty if the management is indeed a bunch of irrational fucktards. Don't just quietly leave, explain clearly why you are leaving. You like the job and the pay is fine, but there is too much internal bullshit to make the job worthwhile. When Billg says "That's the dumbest idea I've heard ..." respond by saying "You are wrong, it is an excellent idea. Your criticism is niether constructive, nor professional. I will be taking my ideas elsewhere." Then immediately leave the room, perhaps the building. So before you present your idea to Billg you should look for a new job. Hopefully you won't need the new job if Billg actually does see the value of you idea, but much more importantly he will also have to acknowledge the value of you. Sure, he still might want you to prove your idea to him, but Bill Gates is smart enough to be able to come up with insightful questions without being rude. I can only imagine this technique is an artifact of Bill Gates being, on some level, scared shitless of the size and responsiblity that MS has become. It's a "trick" that might work with some reliablity, but it's something he should have outgrown long ago. Management can only treat employees like shit when we let them, they need us at least as much as we need them. Following these princples I've doubled my income (and respect from managment)in the last three years. No, not all of this happen with one employer. I did have to walk away from one stable, but poor quality of life, job.
We are all just people.
The staffer, after having turned in the report, was asked "Is this the best you can do??"
Staffer took back his report and worked on it some more before handing it in again.
Still same question "Is this the best you can do?"
Lather, rinse, repeat a few times.
When handing in the report for the Nth time, he was asked that very question again: "Is this the best you can do?"
Replied the staffer: "Yes sir, it is!"
Replied H.K: "Well, in that case, I'll read it."
billg: "that's the dumbest fucking idea i've heard..."
presenter: "this is madness!"
billg: "THIS IS MICROSOFT!!!" *looks at steveb and points to a chair*
That story of the Flood-fill rewrite makes Billg sound like a great manager. So does being the richest guy in the world...
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
This parable illustrates how personal defects get in the way of quality. If the code is crap, the code is crap, no matter who wrote it. If politics or sensitive egos block improvements, quality suffers. Compare EgolessProgramming.
This "my code is perfect" attitude is alive and well. A friend of mine started a new job recently and found that his boss:
you had me at #!
Let me guess - that's the dumbest f***ing icon you've seen in all your time on Slashdot?
....is not an interesting problem to solve.
It's hard to argue that Gates' persistent bullying was anything but good for shareholders for at least the first 13 years of public trading. Even though the stock price has been relatively stagnant for the past few years, revenue and profit growth are proof that the company still has healthy numbers.
However, anyone considering working there needs to ask themselves what they really want to accomplish in life. Looking back, it can't be very fulfilling to say "I helped make that company successful. I fit in, by emulating the bullying, belittling style of my bosses all the way to the top, and now look what we've created!"
There are plenty of companies out there (*cough* [1]) who are trying to be successful while actually also having the kind of environment where you look forward to seeing the people you work with. Having hippy-dippy ideals creates plenty of problems, but they are way more interesting problems than the problems you find at a company like Microsoft.
1. Shameless plug
When billg says, "That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft," what you should reply is, "Bullshit, how could it be any dumber than a talking paper clip?"
You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
At least
1. He makes decisions
2. He lets you know what he thinks
Must fucking managers never do either then back-stab you into oblivion. No, not bitter. Not bitter at all
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
I think that Microsoft's culture did represent a huge improvement over the status quo of the day (before IBM got knocked off the top of the hill). While Microsoft was (and I'm sure remains) very hierarchical, the brutally frank conversations that happened there up-and-down the management chain were welcomed, whereas in most organizations, people worried about getting fired for even the mildest criticism of their bosses. Free soft drinks and casual Monday through Friday weren't the norm when Microsoft was first started. Generous stock options for rank-and-file employees also wasn't the norm, and even though Microsoft wasn't entirely unique in this regard, they were unique in offering MSFT stock options, which, for a while, were worth *a lot*. So, I think they can be forgiven for thinking "if they can't take the abuse, let 'em work for IBM". It's easy, in hindsight, to wonder how much better they could have done by using the state of the art management practices of 2007, but not much more useful than to wonder how much more productive Isaac Newton could have been with a computer.
However, they have a tougher job now. Stock options don't motivate the way they used to, and there are very few places left that think its a good idea to require good CompSci graduates to come to work dressed in suit and tie, so there's no remaining competitive advantage in having a lax dress code. I really hope for their sake that the hundreds of old timer managers there have broken a lot of the really bad habits that have gotten them to this point, or else the next generation of stars they need to recruit are going to look elsewhere.
>> Exchange Server did more to make email a reality for corporates than any other product.
Not at all.
Many companies had unix-based email WAAY before Exchange even came out. Then when it did, some non-technical higher-up usually decides the company should 'upgrade' to Microsoft exchange.
I've been at several companies where exactly this happened and exactly the same result too: Before the upgrade, we had an email system that just worked, and never needed any maintenance. After we switched, we needed to hire a whole office of support staff to deal with the day-to-day issues of ongoing Exchange problems.
I'm always surprised how long its taken them to come round to moving back to Unix/Linux solutions, but they all did in the end.
Now look at the context. LKML is, if nothing else, an eternal debate between intelligent individuals.
MS is a fiefdom, riddled with politics, inflexible, where the billionaire cadre at the top are entirely insulated from reality, and every other layer of the pyramid wants what they've got. Furthermore, they're well known to be gold plated dysfunctional assholes.
If Linus were a gold-plated asshole, the rest of LKML would soon figure it out, and go do something more rewarding than sniff his butt crack.
Money greatly distorts and/or corrupts personalities and companies. This is one pathology the Linux community doesn't share.
you had me at #!
For 6-odd months I was a programmer with MCS (Microsoft Consulting Services). MS had just rolled out NT 3.1, and were just on the way to becoming an Evil Empire, which is actually why I quit.
I met billg during an MS-internal NT programming course in Seattle once, and he was obssessed with VB. Wanted everything done in VB. When I described the C++ work I was doing on some real-time newsfeed and stock quote applicaations for some big-name MS clients in New York, he started hammering me on why I wasn't using VB.
I was either too stupid or too naive or too hungover from the pervious night out to care, but I argued right back at him, telling him VB had a looooong way to go on the API front, the performance front, the stability front, etc.
He looked like he was ready to lock horns (and he was still *just* technically aware enough to have actually had an almost-descent tech conversation with), but his handlers ushered him away.
I got a good reputation after that for being utterly fearless, but for me that meeting was the metaphorical writing on the wall and I left soon after.
Nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained -Tom Baker, Doctor Who
The appropriate thing to do when confronted with a bully is to either a) ignore them, or b) make everyone else see how wrong they are
Dude, I totally agreed with that one kid when he said being drowned in a toilet at the wrong end of a swirlie was, well, wrong. Too bad a) ignoring things rarely fixes them and b) having everyone agree with you that getting beat up every day after school is wrong won't keep you from getting beat up after school.
Violence is rarely a "good" solution to a problem, but that's not to say it can't solve problems, or that it never is a good solution to a problem. I guess I'm one of those silly folk who believe self-defense can be justified.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Bully? Disrespect for people's opinions that differ from his? Sounds like many of us hear on Slashdot.