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Beating WoW At Its Own Game

The BBC has up a short piece on the hopes of game developers and investors to 'beat World of Warcraft'. Representatives for the upcoming Age of Conan, recently-released Lord of the Rings Online, and Star Wars Galaxies all discuss what it's like competing in a post-WoW world. Funcom game director Gaute Godoger has a point when he says, "The industry so needs competition to World of Warcraft ... We need other strong games that can make people understand that there's more to it than WoW." The article discusses some of the features each of these games offer that differ from WoW, and theorizes a bit on where the MMOG genre will go next.

54 of 383 comments (clear)

  1. No first post by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Due to everyone playing WoW, there will be no first post for this article.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    1. Re:No first post by thc69 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      --
      Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
    2. Re:No first post by Knara · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps the real point here is, "people who have problems with addiction shouldn't engage in behaviors that can, *for some people*, be addicting"?

      I mean, comeon, I like a self-reinforcing, carrot-stick game well enough, but lately I can't get around to playing it. The game (or any game) on its own isn't nefarious. But, I suppose we have to villianize it *somehow*, right?

    3. Re:No first post by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WoW seems to have managed to take care of that itself with the new expansion. It drove enough players to realize "this game is stupid and takes too much time" that people are quitting in droves.

    4. Re:No first post by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      and this probably isn't a good idea for those 'addictive' personalities right?

      WOW Credit Card

      too damned funny. But it really cements the notion that WOW is in it's own league among other games, no?


      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    5. Re:No first post by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And who's defining "addictive"? What you're calling "addictive", I call a fun game. Therefore, the company that makes it is doing its job. It's not their fault if some gamers don't have a sufficient grip on reality.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    6. Re:No first post by Kelbear · · Score: 5, Insightful

      WoW's effect on people is similar to some drugs but to a much lesser degree and without a chemical component. Perhaps there is a genetic predisposition to the addiction like alcoholism, perhaps gambling?

      But in the end it still came down to a decision, and as much as we would like it to be otherwise, we are faced with the reality that we are responsible for our actions regardless of the factors that influenced the decision. You can be predisposed to being fat, but it does not excuse you in the eyes of society. When it really comes down to it, gun to the head, people will see bodyfat as a reflection on that person's character. Whether or not the circumstances are "fair" doesn't make much of a difference.

      An alcoholic can blame alcohol all he or she wants, but the responsibility will sit with the alcoholic for their actions. And it's their prerogative to make the right decisions and accept the consequences. It may seem harsh, but I do prefer it over the alternative, where decisions are made for me by someone else.

    7. Re:No first post by Knara · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, WoW did not destroy your marriage. It didn't show up and sleep with your wife. You and your wife's inability to deal with problems in your marriage destroyed it. It's not nefarious, it's a game that millions (literally) play without it messing up their lives.

      In short, "save it for Livejournal".

    8. Re:No first post by gyranthir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sir, it sounds like to me, you did this to yourself. You allowed it to happen, you allowed yourself to not seek help until it was too late. Don't cop out and say the game did it or the drugs did it. OMG the drugs told me to take them over and over I needs them... There is no physical addictive qualities you immersed yourself into the game to avoid RL problems, but instead it caused them. I play WoW, I know it can cause a desire to play, but if I don't play I don't feel sick and lose my ability to operate as person.

    9. Re:No first post by Knara · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I read an article a year or two ago about a study a group did regarding shopping. Turns out, getting "stuff", even though we're buying it ourselves, gives us an empirically observable "high". I would imagine that getting virtual "stuff" likely results in the same sort of chemical reaction.

    10. Re:No first post by teh_chrizzle · · Score: 3, Funny

      You and your wife's inability to deal with problems in your marriage destroyed it.

      i don't like that logic, it makes it sound like it's my fault... i much prefer arguments that leave me blameless and say that there is nothing wrong with me.

      --
      sarcasm:
      -noun
      1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
    11. Re:No first post by endianx · · Score: 2, Informative

      Really, if you think about it, alcoholism is one of the few diseases you can be yelled at for having. "Goddammit, Otto, you're an alcoholic!" "Goddammit, Otto, you have lupis!" One of those two just doesn't sound right. That was from comedian Mitch Hedberg. Give credit where credit is due.
    12. Re:No first post by C0rinthian · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your spending will earn you gametime. It's brilliantly evil, and is actually a Credit Card 'Reward' that I can honestly say I'd use. (Unfortunately)

      But I could never, never take that thing out of my wallet with a straight face.

    13. Re:No first post by lateralus_1024 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "WoW did not destroy your marriage. It didn't show up and sleep with your wife."

      You might want to cancel the 3.4.10 patch. That's all I'm going to say.

      --
      If you think /. comments are bad, check out Digg.
    14. Re:No first post by Stalyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WoW's effect on people is similar to some drugs but to a much lesser degree and without a chemical component.

      All your actions and behaviors have a chemical component. That is how the brain works.

      An alcoholic can blame alcohol all he or she wants, but the responsibility will sit with the alcoholic for their actions. And it's their prerogative to make the right decisions and accept the consequences. It may seem harsh, but I do prefer it over the alternative, where decisions are made for me by someone else.

      Your decisions are made for you by "someone else"; it's called your subconscious which is nothing but deterministic chemical reactions happening in your brain. Your consciousness is not being in control of your actions but rather being aware of them. See Libet's experiments.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    15. Re:No first post by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Funny

      I am sorry but subliminal is a non-standard tag and only interpreted by Microsoft Brain(TM). Please use the fnord tag as specified in appendix 23 of the secret HTML specification.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  2. Do some research by danbert8 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article refers to the Star Wars Galaxies updates as minor fixes and modifications that made players happier and expanded the player base. A simple check would have shown that after every major overhaul, experienced players left in droves and were replaced by noobs. Then to top it off it touts adding creature handling as a new feature (neglecting to add that it had existed long before, but they removed it). Surprising that SOE finally admitted maybe people liked raising animals, and put a feature people wanted in a game.
     
    Yes, I rant, but being an avid fan of SWG before the Combat Upgrade, I can tell you that SWG is no longer the game it was. And then it was beaten while it was down with the New Game Experience which turned it into an action game instead of an RPG. Poor SOE, if you want to release a new RPG, do it. Don't replace what people were playing with something else, ESPECIALLY if they are paying a subscription.

    --
    Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    1. Re:Do some research by danbert8 · · Score: 2, Funny

      No kidding. It's like Sony beating you up and taking your lunch, and then trying to sell it back to you.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
  3. SWG one of the first MMOs? by wolfen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I love how the Star Wars Galaxies guy tries to excuse their massive screwups by saying SWG was one of the first MMOs and that "their wasn't a manual then for how to do them"

    Hmmm... didn't SW:G come out after Dark Age of Camelot which was a nice MMO that was based around the concept of "Do Everquest but make it fun"?

    Maybe the SW:G team could have spent some time with the Everquest team to help them avoid making the exact same missteps?

    1. Re:SWG one of the first MMOs? by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 2, Informative

      SWG was in the third generation of MMOGs. Everquest and 10six were the first generation of 3D MMOs. (There were dozens of 2D and text games that qualified as massively multiplayer before them, Ultima Online being the most well-known. Call them the zeroth generation.) The second wave included DAoC, AC, and AO. None of them hit it big, and some were laughingstocks like WWIIOnline. The third generation is when MMOGs really got rolling, with CoH, SWG, and Lineage. WoW is in the fourth generation, and has become the 800 pound gorilla of the internet.

      Incidentally, the second generation MMOG Anarchy Online was also made by Funcom, the people who are doing the Age of Conan. Considering what a buggy, frustrating and at times repellent mess AO was, I'd stay far away from Age of Conan. These are people with grand ideas and wonderful creativity, but they cannot code worth a damn.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    2. Re:SWG one of the first MMOs? by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Gah, I keep forgetting Meridian 59, which was 3D and predated Everquest by a few years. It was one of the few early MMOs I never played.

      Anyway, Wikipedia has a good history of MMORPGs, although they only define three distinct generations. I think the popularity of games like Lineage and the visibility of games like SWG caused the WoW phenomenon, and should be seen as the fathers of the current generation of games.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    3. Re:SWG one of the first MMOs? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Informative

      In my opinion, DAoC did pretty well, and continued to do so until some dumbass decided to replace the grandparent's "do Everquest, but make it fun", with just "do Everquest" when they added EQ-style "rare mob" camping in the Trials of Atlantis expansion. Things went downhill from there, almost immediately players started looking for somewhere else to go, but until WoW, didn't find anywhere else. Mythic didn't realize how angry their playerbase was with them until WoW was released and their subscriber base dropped by 30% or more in a matter of a month or two, and started continually going down from there. They finally started fixing ToA, but by then it was too late, their players had already lost faith in the company as one that was reactive rather than proactive. To this day, I don't think Mythic realizes just how badly they screwed up - Due to their highly unique RvR endgame (which resulted in some players actually coming back from WoW, albeit only briefly in most cases followed by a break from MMOGs in general), they had the ability to weather WoW if they'd been smart, but they spent nearly two years antagonizing their player base instead of keeping them happy.

      At this point, DAoC is dead with no way to revive the game, Mythic has one of two options:
      a) Keep the status quo. The hardcore addicts stay happy, but the game continues hemorraghing the more casual players (which are now considered addicts by any other game's standards) because they can't compete in RvR with the hardcores. Game eventually dies as its playerbase dwindles and it is impossible to recruit new blood. Mythic has gone a long way in making the grind to 50 enjoyable, but once you hit 50, a new player basically is going to get their ass kicked out in the Frontiers, with no good way to progress. If they join the zerg, they make no RPs. If they try to 8-man, the hardcores farm them and they not only get no RPs, but they make the hardcores even stronger.
      b) Overhaul RvR, or at least the rewards system. For a game whose developer vision has always been massive capture-and-hold warfare at keeps (and later towers with the NF overhaul), the rewards for keep warfare sure are shitty. If you want to gain RPs, you need to join a roaming 8-man group and avoid the massive keep battles (other than farming reinforcement groups). For a long time there were zero rewards for keep/tower taking and defending, eventually rewards were added but they were insignificant. (For example, spending 3 hours sieging a keep and successfully taking it is worth about as much as two player kills in an 8-man roaming group.) Mythic needs to drop the RP rewards for player kills and crank the keep/tower taking rewards WAY up. (Plus perhaps a 3-4x bonus for player kills made in defense of a strategic asset, to encourage people to defend keeps rather than let them go and retake them.) But such an overhaul that devalues 8-man roaming groups, while it will enable the game to attract and retain new blood, will also drive away their existing hardcore playerbase. In short, they need to somehow pull off something akin to NGE without destroying the game, but unlike SWG NGE, Mythic would be doing this to save a dying game, rather than try to overhaul a recently launched game that was still potentially growing.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  4. Some suggestions by metamatic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In case any MMORPG developers are reading this, some suggestions:

    1. Either make me pay a monthly fee, or make me pay for the client, not both. Charging for both makes it seem like you're not convinced I'll want to keep playing. By all means have a CD distributed in stores at a price that covers costs; it's just the phenomenon of paying $50 for the chance to pay another $10 that doesn't make sense.

    2. If you can't make the client free, make it transferable, so I can sell it if I decide I don't want to keep playing. There's no way I'm going to spend $50 on a game I may not even like, if I can't resell it to get back some of the cash.

    3. Include Mac and Linux. I don't run Windows and won't run Windows. There are millions of us, and we have very few MMORPG choices right now, so it's an easier niche for you to get into than the more saturated Windows market.

    4. Make it possible to play the entire game in cooperative mode. I have zero interest in deathmatches.

    5. I prefer SF to fantasy, yet most RPGs are fantasy. I guess it's easier to artificially limit the players and work around plot issues when you have magic around and a lack of fast long distance transport and communication technologies.

    6. Don't riddle the game with spyware and have an abusive EULA. Yeah, WoW got away with it, but that's no excuse.

    7. Don't require bleeding-edge hardware. My next machine is probably going to be a laptop with Intel graphics.

    Generally, the idea I'm presenting is to try and go for the potential players who are not being served at all by the current online gaming market, rather than to compete to steal customers who already have a choice of a half dozen games they could be playing. You know, try to be the Wii rather than the PS3.

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    1. Re:Some suggestions by idesofmarch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds to me like you are suggesting they cater to the market of one - you. Maybe you did not mean it that way, but have you read what you wrote? It is all "me me me."

    2. Re:Some suggestions by toleraen · · Score: 4, Informative

      1 & 2 - Several MMOs have trials that you can play. Just off the top of my head I know that EQ1 and WoW have free trials, I'm sure there are others. I think I played EVE for some period for free as well.

      3 - If there actually were millions of Linux using MMOGers out there, they'd make a client. But there aren't (not trying to troll, just being realistic). Cedega/Wine has several MMOs running as a secondary option.

      4 - I don't remember ever playing any form of deathmatch(pvp?) in any MMOG. PvE is the focus of most MMOGs. PvP is usually a side game you can participate in if you choose.

      5 - Are you saying that warp drives and ansibles are somehow more realistic than a teleportation spell? There are plenty of Sci-Fi based MMOGs...SWG, AO, EVE, TMO, etc.

      6 - I think WoW is the only one to ever actually do it. Are there MMOs with tons of spyware all over?

      7 - I've played several MMOs on my crappy laptop with Intel Graphics, including WoW and EQ, among others.

    3. Re:Some suggestions by Kleedrac2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wow ... you sound exactly like I did 2 years ago before playing WoW :) ...
      1. I think it's fairly obvious now that the retail box is to pay for the time and effort of developing the client and the monthly fees are to cover bandwith and server maintenance.
      2. Allowing you to sell your account leads to the sale of high level accounts which denies them money for having that same player buy the box new and level on his own.
      3. More than a few MMOs these days do have a Mac client. Plus if you're die-hard against Windows Cedega supports quite a number of MMOs as well.
      4. I've played a few MMOs and with the exception of Guild Wars none of them focused on PvP ... it was always an option.
      5. Yeah there's really not a whole lot they can do about that. Most RPGs in the non-computerized world are fantasy as well. Just the nature of the beast. That said look into Hellgate:London coming soon. :)
      6. Spyware? I assume you're referring to the WoW check for hacks? I wouldn't go so far as to call it spyware. Especially when it doesn't talk to Blizzard unless it finds something worth reporting. As for EULA's ... come on man ... what software doesn't have an EULA? Freakin' Linux has an EULA ... less restrictive yes ... but it's there.
      7. I played City of Heroes on my notebook with Intel video. WoW is currently playing on a 3-year-old machine. You can't crank the graphical settings but these games don't require "bleeding-edge" hardware.

      Hope this helps :)
      Kleedrac

      --
      Sure we wang, can.
    4. Re:Some suggestions by Suzumushi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I'm sorry you got moderated as a troll, because I wholeheartedly agree with you. Particularly, the pay for client and subscription con. I didn't start WoW until the client came down to $20, because I could justify it as the first month's subscription cost.

      I also agree on the necessity to design for lower end machines. I think the reason WoW is as popular as it is is mainly a function of how it can run on such a wide range of machines.

      Lastly, as much as I hate spyware and invasive anti-cheat programs...what good are they if they don't use them? Why do I still get spammed in-game tells in WoW for real money seller websites? My WoW chat window is fast turning into resembling my yahoo email inbox...

    5. Re:Some suggestions by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1. I think it's fairly obvious now that the retail box is to pay for the time and effort of developing the client and the monthly fees are to cover bandwith and server maintenance.
      The fee for the client is mostly to encourage subscriptions, IMO. Once someone has invested $50, they're not likely to subscribe for a month and then drop it, or they'll have wasted $60, not $10. I think the pricing is determined by how to maximize revenue, not how to cover specific costs -- though it's important that subscription revenues are greater than bandwidth/server costs. At any rate, it's the opposite of a dealer giving someone crack for free to get them hooked -- instead they make them pay enough that they're hooked out of a sense of money already invested...

      Allowing you to sell your account leads to the sale of high level accounts which denies them money for having that same player buy the box new and level on his own.
      I think the parent was talking about selling the license, not a character account. This touches back on my last point -- if you don't pay $50 for the box/license, you're less likely to maintain a subscription. $50 is paltry compared to two years of subscriber fees; the trick is to get them invested in their character(s) enough that they're hooked.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  5. No Grinding in LOTR Online? by quanticle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the article:

    For instance, LOTRO rewards the repetitive actions often required in online games. In return for slaughtering large numbers of one type of creature players will become more powerful or gain a fancy title to demonstrates their prowess.

    In this way, he said, LOTRO hopes to avoid the "grind" that afflicts the middle ranks of those adventuring in WoW.

    How does this system eliminate grinding? It seems to me that it would exacerbate the grinding problems as players would grind even more in order to get the additional power and titles conferred by grinding mid-level mobs.

    --
    We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    1. Re:No Grinding in LOTR Online? by Avatar8 · · Score: 4, Informative
      It all depends upon your definition of "grinding."


      IMO grinding means killing monsters for no reason except experience and money.

      "Farming" is killing monsters repeatedly until the item you want drops.

      "Kill counts" are the number of monsters you must kill in order to complete a quest. Some consider this grinding, but I do not since it has an end and a purpose.

      From what I heard (never played it) EQ required grinding just to reach the next level.

      I feel that WoW successfully did away with the senseless grinding. There is absolutely no reason for any character to ever have to grind by my definition. There are always more quests to do at your level; they may not be in your race's zones if you think that linearly, but they do exist. If you're trying to get a certain piece of gear (or getting gear to sell) then you'll be out killing specific mobs for quite some time and gaining money and XP to boot until you get that gear. Still, you have a purpose and there is an end point.

      I beta tested and bought LotRO (even though I posted here and elsewhere that I wouldn't: the idea of a pay once and never again fall back game for when I [rarely] don't feel like playing WoW was just too tempting). LotRO reminds me of Ultima IX: Ascension. It's a very linear story with lots of little branches. You are free to go and do whatever you wish, but the main story will not progress until you complete the chapter you're in. I have experienced only one instant where I felt grinding was necessary. I was about to complete a quest that would take me out of the current zone. I knew I hadn't defeated a certain boss, but I could not do it by myself or at my current level. I went and killed a few more monsters to get the last 15% of my level, went and killed that boss and then went to complete the zone quest. (I was rewarded as well since two excellent items dropped off that boss.)

      Still if I had looked for a fellowship or just accepted that I didn't finish a quest in that zone, I could have continued on my way without grinding. I have a few RL friends that simply weren't on at that time, so I doubt I'll ever have to grind like that again.

    2. Re:No Grinding in LOTR Online? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't see much difference between repetetively killing for exp, and repetetively killing for a quest whose reward is exp. Either way, you're killing the same monsters over and over. While it is nice to at least have the quest as a guide for when the killing is over, all it really amounts to is grinding with an extra bonus exp reward at the end. Farming is nothing but grinding when you've reached the level cap, and as far as I'm concerned they are the same.

      There are lots of good quests in WoW. Any instance quest is usually good, because instances are the best part of the game (if a terrible pain in the ass to actually do; can't wait for next patch to bring back the LFG channel). Other quests involve infiltrating some location to find an object/boss to kill. Those are fun too. You're killing the monsters because they're between you and your goal, not because it has been decreed that X of them must die.

      All of those "kill X cheese beasts" and "slay weregoats until you find Y goatees" are just filler. They are grinding that you were ordered to do by an NPC. It's slightly better than just plain grinding -- in particular, if you stack quests and turn in several at once it's better exp than just grinding -- but basically the same. If the NPC instead said "Just go kill harpies until you level" would it really be any different?

      I think there's a lot of room for improvement in WoW's questing. Exciting quests that require you to accomplish something are fun but rare. Quests that require nothing more than leaving a huge pile of bodies in one small section of the map -- which I'm saying I can't see any substantive difference from grinding -- are the bulk of quests.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    3. Re:No Grinding in LOTR Online? by Knara · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you think that quest-grinding is bad in WoW, you never played DAoC. That was some seriously painful grinding, and frequently without the quests to make the objectives interesting.

      The game's saving grace was the PvP endgame (and, to an extent, the 20-24, 25-29, 30-34, etc battlefields), which WoW could stand to learn from, IMHO. But man, getting there was brutal. You frequently didn't even get good equipment rewards for quests, which WoW was pretty good at with its pre-BC areas, and is top-notch with the new races in BC (I did a Draenai or however you spell them through to 28 so far, and until 21 I didn't have to buy any equipment from a vendor in order to adequately complete the quests given to me, aside from arrows; this is hugely different from many past MMO newbie experiences).

  6. Try better competitors, to start. by Bieeanda · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Seriously. Turbine has had one real success-- Asheron's Call. Its sequel bombed spectacularly, D&D Online is basically a Guild Wars with a monthly fee, and while LOTRO is barely out of the gate, its questing and lore structures are as turgid as its source material (which is great if you're a Tolkien fan, granted).

    Star Wars Galaxies has gone from 'flawed, but promising' to 'what has science wrought?!' over the course of its existence, a stunning reversal of the usual trend to launch with missing content and patch in later, to launching with missing content and tearing most of what's left out later. Servers are ghost towns, good going there, guys.

    Anarchy Online has had more ups and downs than a roller coaster (abysmal beta, spectacularly awful launch, promised lore/television/multimedia tie-ins that failed to materialize... and a free year of basic play offer to bolster subscription numbers), but at least Age of Conan has some interesting gimmicks planned for it.

    WoW may be simplistic compared to its predecessors and competitors, but it's been as well-produced as any other Blizzard product-- that is to say, polished to an eye-searing shine. In order to pull the same thing off, their competitors will need to get out of the 'launch first, patch later' mindset, which will absolutely require the trust of the people that fund the projects. Without that element of risk-taking on their part, there's no way that any development team will be able to pull the same thing off. All of that development and polish takes time and effort, which are fueled by money... and the precedent of shipping something that runs, rather than something that shines is still much stronger than WoW's literally phenomenal success.

  7. No Mention of EVE Online? by quanticle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    EVE Online is one of the largest MMORPGs out there. Its also possibly the only successful science fiction based MMO game. Given these two characteristics, combined with the fact that EVE's developer team is much more hands-off with regard to player-to-player interaction, I'm surprised that EVE was nowhere to be found the article.

    --
    We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    1. Re:No Mention of EVE Online? by Friedrich+Psitalon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      EVE is often ignored in discussions of MMORPGs because it is precisely the antithesis of what is popularly regarded as "smart" in the genre:

      - It's not fantasy, but fantasy is the smart move because it is easier to understand and create; everyone knows the "ground rules."

      - It's not warm or cuddly. You can be 5 hours in and get (metaphorically speaking) lured into an alley, have your throat slashed, and everything you own taken from you. (Scan-probing pirates in missions, anyone?) That's not smart because it makes people quit.

      - The game is utterly, utterly sandbox. The missions are nothing but money generation and have no effect on your character's skills, and very little (positive) effect on equipment/ships.

      - Some of the worst social behaviors possible are rewarded: ganging up on people, backstabbing, betrayal, strong preying on the weak, opportunism, and so on.

      And yet despite all this, the game continues to thrive precisely BECAUSE it does not pander to the weak. It thrives because genuine accomplishment and reaching the highest levels of the game really does mean something (running major alliances, flying a titan), and not everyone can even come close to doing it. Because EVERYTHING in EVE relies on the player base, the community-binding aspect of the game is tremendously retentive.

      In WoW, you can solo, get bored, and leave. In EVE, cooperation is an absolute must to experience more than a quarter of the game's content - and so people will actively solicit you into their groups, if they're smart - and many are.

      EVE has a decent number of things wrong - including a grave, grave problem looming with the hideously imbalanced titan-class vessels appearing more and more on the battlefield - but anytime you create a total antithesis to the most popular game, you're going to draw a pretty good "backlash" crowd, and EVE has.

      --
      Technological competence assures no more intelligence than any other form, just more elitism.
    2. Re:No Mention of EVE Online? by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's because EVE Online is about as exciting as a spreadsheet 90% of the time mining asteroids or doing PvE quests, doing or reciving a one-sided gank 5% of the time, being in a slideshow of a gigantic fleet battle 4% of the time, and being a victem of an in-game exploit (Well, it's only an exploit if YOU do it, when a huge corp does it it's AOK, and you're not allowed to discuss GM decisions in the forums, so any kind of peer review is doomed to be inherantly either fabircated or not taken seriously) the remaining 1% of the time.

      So that's....4% fun maybe (if you enjoy ganking and being ganked, which I happen to enjoy both)? The only reason you hear about EVE Online at all is because the big corperations want newbies to lord over, so you hear a lot of 'word of mouth grassroots' exposure making it sound fun and like you do exciting fleet battles every single moment of your time ingame. Don't be fooled, EVE Online is not fun.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
    3. Re:No Mention of EVE Online? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2, Funny

      While reading your post, I just pictured PC (from the Mac vs. PC commercials) playing EVE.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  8. Massive players compared to readership? by Metaphorically · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A massively multiplayer game needs to have numbers of players that are... massive. So dislodging WoW from the lead spot takes a lot more than just a great game, you have to reach those players. If there are 8 million subscribers on WoW then how many more are out there to be reached? The $15 or so per month doesn't sound like a lot to most of us, but that's on top of having broadband available, having a decent computer an having the leisure time to spend on a game. The claim that they're making Conan "for adults" sounds fine on paper but other adults think it's odd that I have the time to commit to World of Warcraft. Finding the millions of adults interested in spending the time and money on an immersive game is a huge challenge. It's a lot harder to do than getting people to read the original stories.

    I wonder how the numbers of players they need compares to the readership for the works they're based on.

    --
    more of the same on Twitter.
  9. Polish is the Defining Characteristic for Blizzard by quanticle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    WoW may be simplistic compared to its predecessors and competitors, but it's been as well-produced as any other Blizzard product-- that is to say, polished to an eye-searing shine.

    I've found that to be the case with most Blizzard games. They don't do anything particularly innovative (Real Time Strategy existed before Warcraft, MMORPGs existed before WoW), but the level of polish on a Blizzard game is far above and beyond any other game in the same genre.

    Heck, look at Starcraft. That game is still being sold and played, despite approaching 10 years of age. Reason: the game was simple to understand and play, and the races were far more balanced than in any other game of that time. Nothing really new or innovative, but the overall execution was of high quality, ensuring continued success.

    --
    We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
  10. Re:How do you beat WoW at it's own game? by markov_chain · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Quoth the Tao of Programming:

    A master programmer passed a novice programmer one day. The master noted the novice's preoccupation with a hand-held computer game. ``Excuse me,'' he said, ``may I examine it?''

    The novice bolted to attention and handed the device to the master. ``I see that the device claims to have three levels of play: Easy, Medium, and Hard,'' said the master. ``Yet every such device has another level of play, where the device seeks not to conquer the human, nor to be conquered by the human.''

    ``Pray, great master,'' implored the novice, ``how does one find this mysterious setting?''

    The master dropped the device to the ground and crushed it underfoot. And suddenly the novice was enlightened.

    --
    Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
  11. The success of WoW by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's quite easy to explain why WoW succeeded where others have failed.

    First and foremost, they had an already existing background world. That started it off well. Warcraft has a LONG and quite well known world. Not with movie goers, not with bookworms, but with computer players. That sets it apart from SWG and LOTR. Yes, both have a large fanbase, but those aren't necessarily gamers. WoW had a gamer fanbase from the start.

    Second, it's easy. Sorry, dear WoW players, but that game is easy. Easy. Easy. I know a five year old who's leveled to 60 without any real difficulty. But that actually meant that it was one of the first MMORPGs that drew the attention of people who're not hardcore number crunchers and grinders, who don't first of all consult a billion pages about the game to find out whether spell X or spell Y is in situation Z more appropriate.

    It was basically the mix of having a good player base at its start and being easy enough that people who got invited by those who knew its name (i.e. the "old" Warcraft players) didn't get bored with the detail work.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. How to Beat WoW at its own game... by MeanderingMind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...don't.

    You need only look so far as Diablo and Diablo 2 to realize that when it comes to addicting grindfests, Blizzard is king. Attempting to take Blizzard down on their home turf is a ridiculous goal, and one that should be abandoned by any MMORPG hopeful.

    I can't say I pay attention to subscription numbers, but to my knowledge the most successful MMORPG outside of WoW is EVE. EVE also happens to be fundamentally different from WoW.

    The problem with these companies is that they're trying to make "WoWLotR" or "WoWConan". They see WoW as a formula they can copy and make money from. What they fail to realize is that the "GTA Clone" strategy doesn't work with MMORPGS. Even if you were able to make a game as good as WoW was when it launched you're still 2 and a half years behind on new content updates, balance tweaks and cosmetic upgrades. Even if you can make the game as good as WoW is now, you still don't have the 8 million strong playerbase. Your game literally needs to be significantly better than WoW straight out of launch.

    No, you can't beat WoW at its own game. You can wait for it to eventually fade and then stab it when its weak, but that's a long ways off yet. If you want a successful MMORPG, it needs to be different from WoW. It needs to do the things people wanted from WoW but didn't get. I doesn't even have to be in a fantasy setting. I know I'd enjoy a Dynasty Warriors MMORPG, were it done right (we probably don't have the technology to make that as awesome as it could be, sadly).

    In summary, trying to beat WoW at what WoW does best (it's own game) right now is like trying to beat an olympic athlete in a marathon when they have an 8 mile head start.

    --
    Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
  13. Step 1: better artwork, not better graphics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I see these games, with their bump-mapping, realistic shadows and high-poly models. One or two screenshots is all I need to know that I don't want to play them. Game designers need to realize that graphics are more about art than technology. I don't care how realistic the shadows are, if I'm forced to walk around in some drab, grey world, carrying generic swords taken out of some cheap Maya Model Pack.

    The quality and imagination of the artwork in World of Warcraft is one of the main, and often-overlooked, reasons for its success.

  14. MMORPGs aren't just games... by bigwave111 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    WoW, aside from being a well polished, easily accessible game has more going for it than fun gameplay. WoW has become a social community, many of whom spend time talking on Vent, many of whom are college roommates or friends who all play together and actually keep in touch, not only through facebook or myspace, but through WoW. WoW is a social game and to say that other games are going to pull away users...well I just don't see it happening.

  15. Well ask someone who played them all by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Informative

    The oldest first, Star Wars Galaxies. Yes its launch was bugged, yes bugs took for ever to fix and yes SOE changed the nature of the game, in my opinion ruining it, with the CU and the NGE. Yet it remains one of the most ambitious titles. Player controlled economy with all equipment obtained through crafting NOT looting, yes this could mean that a new player who wasn't socially capable enough to find existing players, had a hard time getting the money to buy the equipment. I personally have helped plenty of newbies to get their decent starter kit. SWG had a nice community. It also remains alone in allowing you to combine classes as you saw fit. Sure, this did lead to some people trying to spec out uber combat classes and to wich SOE made the fatal mistake of them upping the high level content to those specced out players. Yes the doc-buff was the death of grouping BUT it tried.

    A typical SWG quest, oh wait, nobody bothered with them because although some had nice writing the XP and loot sucked and so why bother, RPG for the story? Not in MMO land mate.

    Everquest 2 too tried. FULL SPEECH! Read that again and realize that in 2007 NOT ONE SINGLE MMORPG EXCEPT EVERQUEST 2 HAS SPOKEN TEXT FOR ITS QUEST GIVERS. 2000 called, they want their text bubbles back. It also tried a new crafting system and upped the stakes in the graphics department. It didn't work. EQ2 is a nice enough game but it is also evercamp squared. A typical EQ2 quest goes like this. Kill 20 X, turn in, Kill 20 X, turn in, Kill 20 X, turn in, Kill 20 X, turn in, Kill rare spawn that only spawn on days with no y.

    And then SOE changed the game again, the running animation now looks like an old fashioned slapstick and the death penalty was made so light it barely matters.

    Next, there is WoW. A little known MMORPG that is managing to hang on somehow. Blizzard is to MMORPG's what Microsoft is to desktops. It does nothing new, it copied everything it does from everyone else and still it absolutly dominates. Does it have less bugs? No, read the forums, did it have an untroubled launch? Like hell, does it have excellent customer service? Still read the forums.

    Its gameplay is a throwback to the orignal everquest with absolutly nothing new added. And yet. Something is right. (something is also wrong, but I am coming to that).

    EVERY single SOE game has an engine that is claimed to be future-proof wich is why your computer right now will choke on it. Apparently nobody at SOE realized that a future proof engine is of no use unless the game itself has a future.

    The WoW engine is NOT futureproof. Blizzard used an engine that computers of that day could run. Its relativly low power is hidden masterfully by their choice of art direction (hint to SOE, you need some) and it works. To a point. I am not alone in simply NOT like the graphics after prolonged exposure. It is worthy to note that of all the major MMORPG's in the west WoW is closest to the korean ones in the lack of being able to customize your avatars basic looks. Well I say avatar, WoW players tend to think of it as toons.

    WoW is Everquest Lite done decently. It says a lot about the MMORPG market that this is high praise indeed. What turns people off sooner or later is that WoW copied everything from everquest including evergrind and evercamp. These things I could have done without.

    A typical WoW quest goes like this. Loot item from X by killing it. Oops that one didn't have it, kill another, and another and another and another (repeat for several hours).

    Next, another SOE title. Ambitous, certainly, trying new things, absolutly. Bugged, oh hell yes. I am talking offcourse about no other game then Vanguard.

    More races then any other game and although a cynic might claim most are just color variations, they do have different starting areas/stories. More classes as well. An extra gameplay option in the form of diplomacy. A future proof engine (hint looks great, won't run) and lots of potential. And bugs. Lots of bugs. Basic stupid bugs that

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Well ask someone who played them all by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh and another sad comment on MMO's, this is the one and only MMO to have women who run using their hips. If nothing else, Vanguard will go down in history as the first MMO ever to have a good walking animation for the females.

      Haven't seen Vanguard, but have you seen Guild Wars? The females in GW are very well-proportioned and well-animated. GW may have the highest 'pixellated boobie rating' of any MMOG out there, with excellent and attractive character designs.

      This is important if, like me, you choose your character build based on what kind of backside you want to watch running across the landscape for hours on end.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
  16. Re:How do you beat WoW at it's own game? by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Funny

    If you have ice cream, I will give you ice cream. If you have no ice cream, I will take it away from you.

    This is the ice cream kaon.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  17. Re:All of these games by Avatar8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    WoW is horribly dumbed down.

    I think you mean "simplified interface" so that anyone and everyone who even attempts the game discovers how easy it is to get started and gets hooked within minutes. I've met some handicapped players including one guy who was completely immobilized except for his head. Seeing his joy at playing UO was heart-wrenching. I'm quite certain he is playing WoW and enjoying it even more because it's so much simpler than UO. Whenever someone complains about a game being "dumbed down," I think of him.

    Obviously, WoW is so dumb it attracted over 8 million people because it IS easy to play. The most amazing part of WoW, though, is even though it's easy to get started and continue to play in a casual manner, it can get as complicated as you wish and require a great deal of research, modification and time in order to complete the more challenging quests and instances.

    Almost no penalty for dieing, especially in PVP?

    If there were more penalties, you'd have more people getting frustrated, giving up, logging off and canceling subscriptions. You wouldn't have nearly as large, varied or active the PvP community that does exist. I tried getting my wife involved in UO (pre-pvp consent) twice. Both times PKs ruined her experience and drove her away. I introduced her to WoW while I beta tested it and she's played constantly ever since. One more experience we get to share together.

    There are enough penalties for death. You have to pay to repair your equipment, or if you cannot get back to your body (long distance, over active spawn, etc.) then you REALLY pay by rezzing at the graveyard and taking extra damage. Plus it's a penalty of time lost when you should be enjoying yourself instead of running back to your corpse.

    Grinding the same dungeons and over to get the best items?

    That is the players' choice and the reason Blizzard introduced better items for casual players in Burning Crusade. (Plus that death penalty gets steeper.) Not everyone can commit the time or has the resources to run a raid, but I bet they would if they could.

    There shouldn't be a need to grind, you should be able to raise your skills by simply using them, not grinding xp to go up a level.

    There is absolutely no need to EVER grind in WoW. (**By "grind" I mean kill a monster for the sole purpose of experience gain.)

    At launch there were 2500 quests per faction (Alliance, Horde); with BC I'd suspect it is now more like 5-6,000 per faction. My first character hit 60 within a few months (I'm a casual player who plays multiple characters at once) by only doing quests and running the instances associated with quests. There was never a point where I said "I'll go kill these wolves to gain my next level," it was always "Oh, look, I'll get my next level at my next quest turn in or while killing for that next quest."

    Anyone who is "grinding" is ignorant of the available quests and simply doesn't understand how WoW is different from all those MMO's that came before it. For those that are ignorant, all it takes is a tell in the public channels asking "Where should a lvl xx go for quests?" I can reference the Prima strategy guide, wowwiki.com or any number of other resources if I cannot draw upon my own experience. There are so many quests, Blizzard had to up the quest log from 20 to 25 so people wouldn't have to do so much extra running back and forth. There is never any reason for a person's quest log to drop below 5 quests much less be empty.

    By your definition of "truly great game," you just described Ultima Online as it existed in 1997-1999, and how the Felucca side of each shard still exists. I think most of us have grown beyond that.

    By your complaints and suggestions I gather that you are an experienced gamer and one who participates in PvP. I've heard these same complaints from players over my 10 years of playing MMO's. Trust me, you are in the minority

  18. So, the same as WoW, then? by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So basically you're saying that LOTRO's lack of grind is... well, the same as WoW before it.

    Well, I'm not arguing with your assessment of either. It's just silly nevertheless to hear the LOTRO creators make such claims as that they're beating WoW by eliminating grinding (when WoW didn't require any either) or that titles for the number of creatures killed are what turns grind into non-grind.

    It's blatantly silly. If anyone despised WoW's "collect 25 murloc heads... and only 1 murloc out of 20 has a head" quests and considers those "grind", then adding a title for number of murloc kills doesn't turn it into non-grind. If anything, it just adds insult to injury. The _last_ thing I'd want, when I'm bored out of my skull killing those murlocs... and yet another one was headless, is a message to pop up telling me that I got some title for a million murlocs killed. Not only it wouldn't make it magically "non-grind", it would be a reminder of all the points before when I grinded murlocs for some dumb quest.

    Basically I'm used to hearing silly boasts from people making yet another "X killer" (where X can be WoW, iPod, etc) or "beating X at its own game", but this kind ranks not only as silly, but as... clueless. If the best they can come up with is "I know, let's add some titles", then they're truly and completely clueless. They didn't actually look hard at what they're copying, what works, what doesn't, what's not what the players want, and what they could design otherwise. They're taking wild guesses at something they don't even freaking understand, and hoping WoW would just have a heart attack so they can claim the kill.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  19. The Linux gaming market by KingSkippus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If there actually were millions of Linux using MMOGers out there, they'd make a client. But there aren't (not trying to troll, just being realistic). Cedega/Wine has several MMOs running as a secondary option.

    I won't lie, the Linux and Mac gaming market just isn't there in force yet. However, I don't look at this as a hindrance to entering the market; I look at it as an opportunity.

    Linux and MacOS is growing. Especially with Microsoft's feeble latest attempt at an operating system, I think that more and more people will be looking at it as a viable home computing platform. Those people are going to want games. There just aren't that many available yet, especially in the MMORPG market.

    If I were an MMORPG developer, I'd be jumping on this chance. I'd use as many cross-platform libraries as I could, and that would be one of my major selling points: Whether you're using Windows, MacOS, or Linux, you can play our game. You might make a mediocre dent in the Windows market, probably trailing behind the 800 pound gorilla of WoW. But you would virtually own the MacOS and Linux market for these types of games.

    As those markets continue to grow, so does your game, and the market for Windows-only games shrinks. Even Windows users may start preferring it because they can play with their friends who are using Macs and Linux boxes, not just the ones who are beholden to Uncle Bill. Also, as a development company, you gain experience at developing cross-platform games, so the games you come out with in the future will likely be better than other's who are playing catch-up to the new world of multiple OS's out there.

    Personally, I think developing games only for Windows is a really bad business gamble. You're basically betting your financial future on Macs and Linux not gaining any market share in the future. I think that's extremely short-sighted.

    Oh, and just as an added note, don't forget that in the case of an MMORPG, we're not talking about developing the whole game for multiple platforms, only the client. The primary function of these clients is simply to display graphical representations of network data efficiently and prettily to the user. A very powerful and popular cross-platform graphics library already exists (OpenGL) that will handle the lion's share of this work. In my opinion, if you're a graphics application developer and you're not using it, you're being pretty stupid. As for the back-end server software, unless you plan on selling it or otherwise distributing it, you're free to lock yourself into whatever platform strikes your fancy.

  20. Because they can't? by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, let's see who they mention there:

    - Funcom: makers of Anarchy Online, launched as the buggiest pile of shit in recorded history. Read the reviews on Something Awful, and know that they're actually going soft on it. The game was actually buggier than that. Also bear in mind that that's not at launch, that's after Funcom had been given more time to fix it, and had proclaimed it 110% fixed and working as intended. Yet people fell through the ground and/or started swimming in the ground, enemies attacked through walls, enemy melee attacks had longer range than a sniper rifle, doors were a swirling graphics error, balance in _all_ aspects was a sick joke, crashes and disconnects were common, getting trapped in scenery was also common, missions were randomly generated crap from the same template (e.g., you actually had to kill everyone in a "stealth" or "infiltration" mission to get the token), etc, etc, etc. It says something about the kind of people who'd proclaim that to be working as intended.

    Heck, even the whole freaking factions were so messed up that faction 1 got more money and better equipment, faction 2 just got shafted, and faction 3 didn't even have a shop above newbie level. How's that for balance? Imagine joining, say, the Horde in WoW and discovering that your side doesn't even have more than the newbie areas in the game.

    So basically forget these guys, they just _can't_ design a competitor to WoW. All they can do is hope that someone else comes along and kills it.

    - SWG: it stayed afloat at all because of being a merchandising exercise (you know, like putting Darth Vader's head on a t-shirt: you hope people will buy it just because it's official merchandise), _not_ because of having good design. It was the game that was awaited by _millions_ of SW nerds like it's the second coming of Obi Wan, and it just managed to disappoint almost all of them. Either right away, or in the many changes, culminating with the NGE that turned the whole game into a whole other _genre_. Among many other sins.

    And reading TFA just reminds me of another thing: the team also always had a thorough contempt for the players, and had no qualms with making excuses or telling outright lies. And I see it continues to this day. E.g., now they're introducing pets as some exciting brand-new feature... never mind that it was there before they removed it in the NGE, pissing off everyone whose class had been eliminated. E.g., claiming that reducing the classes was because of noticing what players do and want is... rich. It's like claiming that you kicked someone in the balls because he obviously wanted that. E.g., the excuse that they were the first and that excuses their mistakes... no it doesn't. There were things known not to work long before, some since the time of MUDs, the SWG team just chose to ignore everything. And at any rate, by the time they did some of their biggest blunders, such as the NGE, that was already after a decade of MMOs. They simply didn't have that excuse any more. Etc.

    At any rate, to return to the main idea: everyone who is still there, is there because it's SW. _Not_ because the SWG team can design a good game.

    - Turbine: Well, these guys did make Asheron's Call, which was rather popular at one point. (Even if mainly due to being the place where you won't get ganked instantly like on UO.) So at least at one point they did have the mojo to challenge the kings of the hill.

    Then they seem to have forgotten how.

    AC2 was a flop, and its long list of mistakes could make a case study in how _not_ to go about designing a MMO. It seemed to actually go out of the way to be the opposite of what the players wanted in at least two dozen aspects, or at least miss the mark by a mile. Thoroughly clueless game design.

    D&D Online was a thoroughly mediocre and uninspired game, which again managed to miss the mark of everything that most players want in a game. Not even a case of trying to innovate and happening to get it wrong, but just getting it wrong with

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  21. Yes, there *is* more to it than WoW... by petrus4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...but not in terms of what the industry is actually willing to do.

    WoW goes about as far as it's possible to go while still having what is very largely a static environment. Blizz are in the process of phasing in what essentially amounts to zone-wide games of domination, (if your faction holds all 3 or 4 castles in the zone at once, all players in your faction get a 5% damage bonus) but that still isn't what a vocal minority of players have expressed that they want.

    What I've heard said minority in the playerbase saying it wants in terms of world pvp is a scenario where regions can literally be taken by one side or the other. In other words, although Hillsbrad for example might start out neutral/contested, there could be a scenario where Alliance players could invade it and it could literally become an Alliance zone. At the moment, zone allegiance is static; it never changes.

    The problem with this sort of thing however is that there are technical issues with regards to implementing it, and that said technical issues are mostly above the industry's preferred pain threshold; especially considering that they involve introducing things that are radically outside the current paradigm. (At least from what I've seen) The other incentive for Blizzard NOT to introduce such things is that even though some players generally do want them, such players are a tiny minority. Most players are firmly addicted to ovine repetition such that if Blizzard *were* to start introducing genuinely innovative/novel aspects into the game, it'd probably scare the sheep away. That's something Blizz really don't want to do, because given that the sheep are the overwhelming majority, they're also where Blizz consistently will make most of their money.

    If you look at the differences between WoW and UO in particular, what sets WoW apart isn't what Blizzard added to the model anywhere near as much as what they took away. UO was a lot more open-ended; yes there were dungeon crawls, but there was also a much more thorough economy, a somewhat more diverse reportoire of trade skills, and there were player created and run towns in some places due to the player real estate. In other words, the game wasn't only about "Go to X location and kill some monsters, or X dungeon and kill some more monsters there, or X set part of the map and kill other players there."

    The real problem though, now that I look at it, isn't with the development industry. It's with the players themselves. If WoW has proven anything, it's overwhelmingly that players want an extremely narrow, object-oriented game environment for the most part. They need objectives spelled out for them extremely precisely. Maxis actually found out the same thing with The Sims; most human beings simply don't have the initiative or the intelligence required to set their own objectives within the game environment, but instead require the game designers to do it for them.

    So yes...UO in particular and other games as well have showed us that there's a lot more to it than WoW, but what WoW itself and players' response to it has overwhelmingly shown is that neither the design industry nor the playerbase itself for the most part *wants* more. If Blizzard have any overwhelming talent, it is a talent for identifying and isolating those elements of fantasy which the gaming public want, and then regurgitating said elements back to the gaming public in an utterly McDonaldised way. They did this with both D2 and Starcraft as well as WoW. The end result is a game which is massively horizontal, rather than vertical. There's no depth whatsoever; it's based around literally mind-numbing repetition, but even though nearly the only two activities include killing monsters and finding gear with which to kill yet more monsters, the sheer number of different monsters and loot in themselves make the game sufficiently superficiallly interesting that you're able to at least temporarily (depending on your degree of intelligence, which thankfully for Blizzard, is minimal in the ca

  22. Re:How do you beat WoW at it's own game? by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Novice's "enlightenment" in this case included the realization that Master was a total dick.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  23. Here's one of the big secrets: by Onan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mac versions. And not bad ports, not Wine hackery, not months- or years-delayed half-efforts. Blizzard has always mantained mac versions as first-class citizens among all their products: full feature and performance parity, full interoperability, and synchronized releases. And this has served them incredibly well.

    There are somewhere between fifteen and twenty million macs in use right now that are recent enough to run WoW. Even though these are people who have not chosen their platform to maximize the number of games available to them, let's say that one in ten has at least some interest in gaming occasionally.

    That's about two million potential customers for whom there is very little product competition. A market that size is about a quarter of WoW's total playerbase, and far larger than most games ever see.

    Blizzard is one of the few companies that has been bright enough to catch on to the value of making big-scale games for this incredibly ripe market, and I suspect that it has been a big contributor to their success. With luck, a few other big game authoring companies will figure out this trick as well.