World of Darkness MMOG In Active Production

Laying the fears of tabletop gamers to rest, CCP (makers of EVE Online) has confirmed that they're already working on a Massively Multiplayer game set in the World of Darkness. The dark setting, a property owned by CCP's new purchase White Wolf Games, will be translated to the Massive genre some time over the next four to five years. There's no word yet on which portion of the setting will be used for the game, but the Eurogamer article hints that vampires will feature heavily in the title. "The World of Darkness MMO was announced when the two companies merged last year, with both the American and Icelandic operations staying quiet on the subject ever since. Fans have since speculated that the game isn't in active production - rumours Bergsson laid to rest last week. '[World of Darkness] is one of the reasons we were so interested in White Wolf,' [Magnus Bergsson] said. 'It's a very mature IP. It's a great title for us to take and make into an MMO. First of all there are no MMOs like it. We kind of like that, and we want to explore some new avenues with that type of MMO - character-based and not being fantasy, per se. It's a real opportunity for us.'"

Comments

More developer interference?

[rbanzai]

Have they outlined how much the developers plan to interfere with the players? It would be nice to see a timeline!

Re:More developer interference?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a shame because the White Wolf universe is perfectly suited for this sort of game. The shame being that after CCP's recent debacles I'll have nothing to do with them. Seeing as I dont even play EVE and I've heard of the things going on there, you can bet there will be others that follow suit.

Re:More developer interference?

[Palshife]

It's WoD! The GM's are supposed to get power-hungry and fuck over the players.

Re:More developer interference?

[LordPhantom]

I suspect Grandparent was making reference to several infamous incidences of the CCP folks (specifically GMs) 'cheating' in EvE Online. The GM/dev incidents and the way CCP mods handled it are one of many reasons I canceled my subscriptions(and no you can't have my stuff, someone else does), and is the prime reason I'm not sure I can invest any time or money in a new effort on their part. I sincerely hope that they do make a great product and maintain the game world integrity - as far as MMOGs go, EvE is the most conceptually interesting game out there.

Re:More developer interference?

[1019]

So you don't play the game, yet you're making decisions based off of what you heard. Congratulations on making an informed decision, sheep.

Re:More developer interference?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone with a head on their shoulders would stay away from a game company generating the amount of negative PR as CCP has been lately. It should be obvious to anyone that even if the allegations aren't true, CCP is making it an even bigger mess and that isn't something you want to get involved with when you want to play a game.

Re:More developer interference?

[Palshife]

Yeah, I followed all that. What a mess.

Re:More developer interference?

[Bieeanda]

Not to mention the (in)famous 'metagame' that the WoD developers played with themselves-- er, that is to say, played through entire series of sourcebooks and new core rulebook editions.

This is one MMO that I'm going to stay very, very far away from. I've played WoD tabletop, I've played it LARP, and I've had dealings with people who have played it extensively in unofficial MUX text games; common themes straight through all of those have been GM caprice, OOC politicking, whining and histrionic drama. Take a peek at the official forums for virtually any active MMO, and just imagine all of that garbage amplified by a setting and a potential player-base that is already steeped in paranoia and self-obsession.

Re:More developer interference?

[Cornflake917]

Meh, I think that's kind of a dumb reason to not play a game. If you enjoy playing the game, who cares if the devs cheat, even if it alters the whole economy. My problem is that CCP has poor game design concepts, and don't know how to make a fun game.

Re:More developer interference?

[brkello]

How can something be overrated when it isn't rated up :P

Do this right

[Turn-X Alphonse]

If they do this right I am so in. Bloodlines was one of the best games I've ever played (except the bugs.. ahem) and to be quite frank I would kill for a decent sequal of any sort. If they get this right it could be an amazing game, but if they get it wrong it'll just turn into a social point (I expect it'll be set in a BIG city) where all sides work together instead of a vicious street war as all factions try to rule the city and avoid vampire hunters.

So, less grinding and more grand scale PvP and I'm in. Maybe even make it so it works like GTA:SA did with gang wars but set areas are No-PvP so newbies will be safe before they attempt to wander the streets and find better gear which will only be found in neutral zones.

Re:Do this right

[the dark hero]

No-PVP areas? Honestly whats the fun in that? :P

I see you haven't played EvE Online.

Re:Do this right

[Hubbell]

PVP Safe zones are wrong, and are only present in games where gear is important like epicz in WoW.
For a better idea on how items/pvp combat should be in an ideal PVP game, check out this article I wrote for my new weekly column at Curse-Gaming.

Re:Do this right

[Turn-X Alphonse]

safe areas would be for respawning and newbie areas. It prevents killing newbies and would force you to survive in the wild or a long trip to return.

Re:Do this right

[Hubbell]

There is no reason to protect newbies. If you can't hack getting killed by someone better/older than you (in level based games, higher level) than you, then this will weed you out before you invest too much time into the game and figure that out down the road. There's no reason for a safe zone to respawn at, but perhaps a max 5minute NPK timer like Asheron's Call had. There were NO safe zones on Asheron's Call's darktide server until houses were added with barriers around them, and even then not everyone had access to them and they were relatively worthless for what you are talking about.

Re:Do this right

[Turn-X Alphonse]

So you're saying if some guy with an area effect attack who's high level sits in the newbie area casting it over and over it should be fair game for newbies to just spawn and die?

Preventing abuse is important.

Re:Do this right

[Hubbell]

Said in my post there should be a small NPK timer after death so you can run away from a camping situation, otherwise no safe zones.

Re:Do this right

[code_nerd]

Spoken like a true jackass. I don't pay money for a game just to have some fat, pimply-faced basement-dweller rox0r me over and over. Unless, of course, the game is specifically just PvP. In MMOs, though, free-PvP with no safe areas simply weeds out everyone but the assholes. Darktide and its swear-or-die silliness is a great example of that.

Re:Do this right

[Hubbell]

Some people want a more complex dynamic to their gameplay, and open PVP offers that whether they are good at PVP or not. The politics, the overall guild strategy in the form of choosing targets to attack and resources to try and control, all are great aspects of an Open PVP environment. For people who want a deeper kind of PVP, Darkfall will be the game for you.
Darktide's swear or die stuff only applied to the PK guilds and jackasses in Khao.

Sounds fun...

[Ren.Tamek]

Sounds like fun. Pity it's going to take 4-5 years to complete. That's a pretty long time in game development.

Re:Sounds fun...

[techpawn]

If you played bloodlines, you'd of asked for a little more dev time for them to work out the bugs on what was such an awsome game. Better to take their time and do it right then rush the product and us be left to feel cheated.

transition between media.

[Gharbad]

I wonder how well they'll translate an excellent tabletop/larp setting into a hack and slash leveling grind.

Re:transition between media.

[Diss Champ]

If anyone can avoid turning it into just another level grind, they have a good shot. Eve is more outside the mold than the other MMO that are doing well, and rather than just licensing the world they have the people who do the tabletop/larp games on the inside now. I'm also glad they are willing to take 4-5 years to do it- too many games these days schedule just enough time for the interface without enough for gameplay, and launch with what would be better called a proof of concept demo than complete product.

I'm hoping they dont do each race as an expansion

[Coraon]

Otherwise it could be a while before we get to play my to favorites, Mage and Changling.

mature ?

[Tom]

If "mature" means "sucked dry and left to die" in his dictionary, I think he's right.

I used to be a big WoD fan. Played Vampire for years, liked Werewolf better, threw a lot of time into Mage and am still dreaming of doing a really, proper Wraith session one day.

But for all I care, nothing good has come out of White Wolf for years now. It all seems to be a cashing-in because they lack new ideas. Lots of the recent stuff reminds one of Games Workshop, who are well known for publishing a new edition every few years simply so lots of people buy everything again.

Re:mature ?

[pragma_x]

I too would be much more encouraged by this development if White Wolf actually did something new and good after 1999. It seems that all the good writing, direction and well, everything went out with smoking clove cigarettes while listening to Sisters of Mercy at nightclubs. This stuff doesn't seem to really be in vogue as much as it used to, which might explain why things aren't what they used to be? Perhaps there's room to exploit something else? (cue: "Emo the Indifference" sourcebook)

"Lots of the recent stuff reminds one of Games Workshop, who are well known for publishing a new edition every few years simply so lots of people buy everything again."

Such is the nature of the niche market. Once you have a perfect product, you're doomed to re-perfect it in order to keep the lights on. On occasion, this can be good like the recent revision to Shadowrun (less focus on VR). But most of the time, we get changes that are hotly debated (D20 D&D) or are universally accepted as bad (gods removed from class D&D).

And on occasion, things are broken in ways that don't kill the franchise, but are generally dumb design decisions. For instance I asked my brother, a former Warhammer 40k guy, how he liked the new 2nd edition rules. He replied:

"Oh, it's great! They streamlined everything to make arguing with your opponent over the rules a more essential part of the game."

Re:mature ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Regarding Games Workshop -

Yes, it can be frustrating as a consumer to have to buy everything again. But Warhammer et al isn't supposed to be a board game; its target audience is hobbyists and collectors. The whole attraction of the genre is that you have to labor to assemble a collection. I mean, they even make you paint your own pieces, right?

If everyone could do it, the barrier to entry would be too low, and the attraction of being at the top would be lessened.

Good and bad

[bar-agent]

On one hand, there will be more roleplaying. On the other, the roleplaying will be all angsty and goth. On the gripping hand, roleplayer or not, all players will be griefers and minimaxers.

I forsee one problem immediately. Most of the WoD stuff is set in modern times, in modern cities. I don't see how a MMORPG can do that right. Let's say, for example, Chicago. Chicago is big. And we know what Chicago is supposed to be like, what the streets are, etc. And it is full of people. A tiny Chicago with a handful of NPCs is not going to work.

So, they will either have to use the middle-ages stuff, or use fake cities and tricks like keeping you in one neighborhood while showing the rest of the city "just over the wall."

Re:Good and bad

[jollyreaper]

I foresee one problem immediately. Most of the WoD stuff is set in modern times, in modern cities. I don't see how a MMORPG can do that right. Let's say, for example, Chicago. Chicago is big. And we know what Chicago is supposed to be like, what the streets are, etc. And it is full of people. A tiny Chicago with a handful of NPCs is not going to work.

So, they will either have to use the middle-ages stuff, or use fake cities and tricks like keeping you in one neighborhood while showing the rest of the city "just over the wall." Unless they license the content from Google Streets....:)

Seriously, I wonder how long it will be until Google Earth content gets included in serious gaming. I've heard some people were working on a novelty port of Risk but what I'm thinking of is more like X-Com. Especially when you consider the stuff they have going with the 3D Buildings, textures and all, it gives me flashbacks to the traffic control program from the Ghost in the Shell movie.

Maybe the actual satellite imagery wouldn't look as good in a gaming environment but it could probably be a start for seeding procedural content generation code ala Spore. "Ok, this area should be shoreline, make it look so. Flat grasslands here, steppe and plains there, mountains over yonder." Generate flora and fauna and there you go. "Bullshit," you say? "Impossible?" "Too much work?" I would have said the same ten years ago if you told me about even half the stuff we're playing with today.

Re:Good and bad

[foeclan]

A tiny Chicago with a handful of NPCs is not going to work.

They could probably pull off a City of Heroes model with multiple city zones (some of which are huge) forming a full-sized city. They have hordes of NPCs wandering the streets with basic AI (run from bad guys, but that superhero over there? Just push him the hell out of the way ;), but only certain contacts actually have anything useful to say. They have some random encounters like muggings, where if you defeat the bad guys the citizens they're menacing will thank you. The city definitely feels populated that way.

Re:Good and bad

[Moraelin]

On one hand, there will be more roleplaying. On the other, the roleplaying will be all angsty and goth.

Sad to say, I don't think any MMO will involve any serious quantity of roleplaying.

I've been on RP servers before, I've been on RP MUD's, and frankly, the only ones who kept it half-way in-character were the MUD's which started banning left and right (or executing offending characters in public places) for OOC stuff. Downside: most of those lost most players very fast, and became ghost towns where the grand event of the evening was meeting another player at all.

My latest experimental WoW char was started on an RP server. The first thing I was asked when joining a guild was my RL name. To this day I'm the _only_ one in the whole fucking guild who doesn't address the others by their RL names. Discussions on the guild channel or in groups typically involve RL events (e.g., john is going camping with his kids), talks about alts, and whether to buy Lord Of The Rings Online. Occasionally they talk about buying gold (for RL cash), and at least one talk was about who can masturbate more times in a day.

OK, maybe I've joined the wrong guild, but I do interact with people from other guilds quite often. (I whine about pickup groups as much as the next guy, but I'm always going to give them a try. Call me a masochist.) As far as I can tell, RP guild means they sometimes use brackets when they talk. E.g., while a non-RPer might say "I bought a new graphics card", a RPer will say "(I bought a new graphics card)". See, brackets mean OOC stuff. _Heavy_ RPers or heavy RP guilds say everything in brackets.

Just about the only actual public RP I've noticed was... erm... public foreplay, really. You can tell a roleplayer by their scantily clad female Blood Elf character. I wouldn't know if they just stop after the foreplay or move it to tells. I didn't inquire.

Ok, so Troll characters are also occasionally used by RP-ers, because you just need to talk like a rastafarian to sound like a Blizzard troll. Fairly straightforward to RP. So expect to hear stuff like, "I be buying da new graphics card, mon." That's role-players for you, I guess.

So, on a more serious note, I wouldn't set my hopes high that any setting will just magically turn people into role-players. Just because it's based on some RP setting, well, doesn't mean it'll be played by the same people who play the tabletop version. The bulk, if it actually gets any players at all, will be the same generic video game player type as in any other game.

Most of the WoD stuff is set in modern times, in modern cities. I don't see how a MMORPG can do that right. Let's say, for example, Chicago. Chicago is big. And we know what Chicago is supposed to be like, what the streets are, etc. And it is full of people. A tiny Chicago with a handful of NPCs is not going to work.

City Of Heroes is set in a city, and in fact the city is the _whole_ game world. It worked perfectly well so far.

And, yes, it has plenty of people, cars, trucks, etc, on the streets, and even a blimp in the sky in Atlas Park, and barges in the ports. It can be done. A modern graphics card is perfectly able to render 100 NPCs walking around.

They avoid the "this doesn't look like Chicago" question by, well, being a fictional city. I can't see why that wouldn't work in WoD too. The game doesn't have to be set in Chicago, it can be set in a quaint fictive town with 100,000 inhabitants, half of which are the players. Sure, it breaks the rules as to how many vampires should there be per thousand inhabitants, but I'm sure most people can live with that. Noone complained about having crime in a city with 2000 super-heroes active at any given time, after all.

I mean, think about it. Would it really stop you from playing the game if it was set in the fictive city of New Berkshire, instead of in Chicago?

City Of Heroes also _does_ use walls and areas of the city that are just on the city map, but not actually accessible. There are areas which were added later, too, but some still are only on the city map. And some areas were added that weren't part of the original map. Noone minded that so far.

Re:Good and bad

[Opportunist]

I hear you. I've been pondering this problem for long: Is it possible to create a "virtual RP place". And the sad answer is: Not without a GM.

The core problem this all can be reduced to is: How do you reward "good" RP (and punish "bad" RP) instead of slaughtering monsters? Reward for shedding blood is simple: Kill X, get Y XP. That's something an algorithm can easily accomplish. How should an algo determine whether you are playing well? It can't. The other players in your group can, as can your ST/GM. To actually judge this, though, he'd first of all have to know your background story and so on, or you'd be forced to play a stereotype.

In other words, it takes a DAMN lot of effort to handle. No large scale game can even remotely start to implement that.

Fact is, a player will only do what furthers his goal. For many who play MMORPGs, this goal is getting "bigger". If RP doesn't make you bigger, there is no point in RPing. So you have to find a way to reward good RP, or people won't do it, simple as that.

That applies to the "WoW-RP Server" you mentioned. Personally, I've learned that RP-Server in MMORPG terms usually only means "less jerks, more mature people", but not that you get actually involved storylines or have a chance to meet a player who actually put some thought into a background story for his character. Tops, you find someone who knows at least the background story of the world.

Not really news

[jollyreaper]

I thought everybody already knew this was in the works. Or is this like Hillary officially announcing her candidacy for president after obviously planning it for years?

All this means is that resources are going to be sucked away from the current product, EVE Online. That's a bit of a pisser since the understanding with paying a monthly fee is that you're supposed to be paying for the upkeep of servers and the development of new content, not just lining the pockets of the owners.

Re:Not really news

[Diss Champ]

They have been hiring new people to do the new game; it used to be everything was in Iceland, the Atlanta office seems to be for this one. While there may be some time helping them get up and running, the Eve team is still working on Eve, not being moved to the new game en masse. There has been some mention of stealing bits of the WoD code to use for station environment and planetary stuff when it's far enough along so it won't be a one way street either.

Re:Not really news

[jollyreaper]

They have been hiring new people to do the new game; it used to be everything was in Iceland, the Atlanta office seems to be for this one. While there may be some time helping them get up and running, the Eve team is still working on Eve, not being moved to the new game en masse. There has been some mention of stealing bits of the WoD code to use for station environment and planetary stuff when it's far enough along so it won't be a one way street either. I've heard this argument before and, without context, it seems logical and reasonable. But to refute it all one has to do is look at the laundry list of stuff that needs fixing that has been left unattended. The money going to pay for the station ambulation work could have just as easily gone to hire someone to fix the buggy drone AI. How about optimizing the net code so things don't lag out all the time? It's not a priority. You know what this reminds me of? Microsoft Office. I can show you bugs that have been preserved intact and unchanged from Office 95 to Office 2003 while the only major changes have been in the shiny eyecandy features.

This isn't a unique weakness that belongs only to CCP, I see this kind of misdirected effort everywhere.

Exalted would work better.

[TwoQuestions]

If you're into flashy special effects, Exalted would make a much better MMO. In First Edition it was all Greek/Roman type stories, now it's gone into the realm of anime. Still a fun game, with next to no world-spanning metaplot.

Re:Exalted would work better.

[zippthorne]

It's called, "World of Darkness." You shouldn't be expecting ANY visual effects. Let alone, "special." I think it's a brilliant way to reduce development overhead.

Re:Exalted would work better.

[santiago]

Exalted would make for a wretched MMO under the current state of the art. Exalted is all about being one of the thousand or so most powerful beings in the entire universe. Celestial Exalted can routinely topple kingdoms and take over the world. It completely doesn't fit into the current MMO model of "kill things and take their stuff". ("Dude, let's go whack the Ebon Dragon's fetich soul again and see if he drops a Daiklave of Conquest!") MMOs rely upon repeatable content, and Exalted doesn't lend itself to that at all. Exalted player characters are supposed to be the movers and shakers of the setting, the ones who shape the world by their every action--you *are* the meta-plot.

If you limit the players to the comparatively lower-powered Terrestrial Exalted, of which there at ten to twenty thousand in Creation, I guess that makes for a decent population for a single server, but there's still the problem that no current MMO has done anything approaching a good job of combining politics and manipulation of NPC factions and resources into open-ended game play. At best you wind up with a backstabbing cliquey little pseudo-LARP in which you can't even see the people you're betraying this week. The same problem really applies to the World of Darkness, too, so we'll see if they can solve that. If so, there might be hope for an Exalted MMO. However, I still think there's a fundamental disconnect between Exalted's ethos of "You matter and can make a difference" and the needs of the MMO business model of "You can't actually do anything because doing things requires expensive developer time".

mod this up

[Anonymous Coward]

The OP is making a contentious claim but it is one that is not unfounded. This isn't just a "CCP suxx0rs" rant. If you object to what he has to say, offer your rebuttal. Simply modding him down says that you don't like what he says but cannot prove him wrong.

Posting AC to prevent karma from getting taken violently from behind.

oh man

[Eklypz]

This would be so awesome. Vampire is my favorite RPG of all time. 4-5 years though, grrr be nice to see something different in the MMORPG world though!

Just ... HOW???

[Opportunist]

Anyone who knows WoD games knows that they differ from the average tabletop RPG in many ways. First and foremost, the story is the focus, not getting the biggest gun. Actually getting the biggest gun usually only serves one purpose (if your ST is halfway "realistic"): You becoming the biggest target. Because, and that's another "feature" of WoD style games: You can dish out vastly more damage than you can swallow. Many fights are decided by the question who wins the initiative, because the first blow often already reduces you to pulp barely able to limp away from the scene (provided your enemy actually uses tools that can hit you well. Fire, radiation, silver, pick your poison).

Couple that with the fact that WoD games rely heavily on a cloak-and-dagger style, where every fraction has pretty neat powers but at the same time incredibly tight laws concerning their use, how would you want to create a good MMORPG out of it?

If you toss the "laws" of the supernaturals (i.e. Vampires, don't go out and have people know you are one, Werewolves, better don't shift in plain sight, Mages, casting vulgar is not only a bad idea because of paradox and Wraiths, don't even THINK about interacting with the world of the quick...), you reduce it to a goth-style cyberpunk world. Everyone will go berserk in minutes, Vampires going on a feeding frenzy in the mall, Werewolves coming up behind and shred what's left...

And how should battles run? In fact, NO MATTER how "high level" you are, a well placed shot can and will at the very least make your life very, very miserable. Despite regeneration and whatnot, an assault rifle at full auto reduces any Werewolf to a little pile of mush in very little time.

Personally, I don't think it's possible to create the "mood" in a MMORPG. It also doesn't work well together with the average mindset of a MMORPG player. Usually MMORPG players want to create the biggest, baddest, have-it-all character. And that is, if they recreate the rules verbatim, the surefire way to a quick death, because, no matter what group you play, killing such a top-level character is not a significant problem for a group of grunts and also offers them a LOT of benefits. Unless the "laws" of the supernaturals are enforced. But ... how?

Sorry. I don't see this game take off. Either it sucks as a MMORPG or it sucks as a WoD game.

Re:Just ... HOW???

[sacremon]

Which all goes to indicate that there will have to be a difference between the PnP ruleset and MMORPG ruleset.

This is no different than DDO or even NWN. There are some things that need to be trimmed from the PnP ruleset because they make no sense for a video game. Things will have to be simplified. Heck, there isn't balance between the games in PnP. A mage can pretty much toast any other type of character.

Odds are the result won't satisfy the hardcore WoD fans, as whatever they are accustomed to will be diluted and made more uniform across the board. Either they will have to suck it up and deal with it, or decide not to play.

Re:Just ... HOW???

[sanjacguy]

And how should battles run? In fact, NO MATTER how "high level" you are, a well placed shot can and will at the very least make your life very, very miserable. Despite regeneration and whatnot, an assault rifle at full auto reduces any Werewolf to a little pile of mush in very little time.

Hmmm - I guess I remember things differently, or had a very different GM. Your average Joe on the street would tend to run screaming into the night at the sight of a Werewolf in Crinos form due to the Delerium - so your shooter must be somebody special or your GM was 'lucky'. Your average Werewolf in Crinos (the big upright biped wolf man) would've taken a lot of damage, and might even be killed by the 'lone gunman', with some bad luck on the player's part. Then again, Werewolves travel in packs, usually with at least one of each aspect - so that's at least four other Werewolves that will stand with your target wolf.

Pretty much my experience was if it was a vampire vs. werewolf fight, the vampire was either destroyed or really really old and powerful. The key was that the political field was reversed - vampires pwn werewolves in politics. That's due to Vampire society and due to Vampires being much more capable of taking the long view.

The question I'd like to see is if they're doing old WOD IP, with the five books being Vampire The Masquerade, Werewolf The apocalypse, Mage The Ascension, Wraith, or Changeling; or if they're doing the NEW WOD IP, with three core books being Vampire The Requiem, Werewolf The Forsaken, and Mage The Awakening.

Re:Just ... HOW???

[Opportunist]

Well, my personal fear would be that it is turned into yet another MMORPG. With Werewolves as tanks, Vampires as offtanks, mezzers, stunners and charmers, Changelings as buffers and debuffers and Mages as healers and damagecasters.

If it is faction vs. faction, it's even worse. Mages will have to tread very lightly, because unlike in the PnP version, you'll know that whoever you meet IS a super and if you don't "know" him, he's most likely an enemy. There's a reason why the original books mentioned the other factions only as a sidenote and didn't incorporate them into the specific set, simply because they are largely incompatible.

It's near impossible to make the systems compatible in PnP. I tried. There are so many "what if" combinations to take into consideration that it's near impossible to create a balanced, fair set. You can't pit the various factions against each other. At least not without turning the system inside out or you'll never create a balanced PvP set.

Re:Just ... HOW???

[Opportunist]

Well, generally you're right. But remember that this would be a MMORPG, with every single person you meet (and that's not an NPC) will be a supernatural, who is by default not subject to the delirium. Then, yes, WWs travel in packs. Normally. In the MMORPG? Not likely.

It can be a veritable headache for your WW pack if you let them face a handful BSD kinfolk with sniper guns. Try it, you'd be surprised. Like I said, it all stands and falls with preparation. A headshot to a werewolf in homid is quite likely deadly or at least puts him out of action. And you can't just waltz across town in Crinos. The element of surprise has never been more powerful in a RPG.

As for old or new ruleset, I predict they'll use the new one. Very simple reasons for that: Fewer factions, easier rules and easier crossovers. And most of all, more suited for hack'n'slay.

Re:Just ... HOW???

[DarkGreenNight]

Well, it's not very different from EvE online. Go full Pvp everywhere. Toss an Elysium and some other "secure" areas where you are killed on aggression (you may still get your victim). Too many non-allowed attacks and there's a blood feud on you, everyone can kill you at sight. Set some areas where the Prince and their minions turn a blind eye to, in where you can kill and get killed without a "legal" repercussion.

Then you just need to set a penalty (apart from losing whatever you where carrying) to death and you have a place where newcomers and untrustworthy vamps are looked at thoroughly and where you really have to take care in who you trust. Not very dissimilar from the WoD I knew.

CPP look like the right kind of people to do a game like this, I hope they succeed. It won't (probably) be mainstream, nor "easy" (WoW is easy to get on), but it might get enough people to do well. Heck, I could end there. WoD is not my favorite system, but at least has no levels.

(Yeah, I still have some trust in them)

Re:Just ... HOW???

[Macgrrl]

First and foremost, the story is the focus, not getting the biggest gun. Actually getting the biggest gun usually only serves one purpose (if your ST is halfway "realistic"): You becoming the biggest target.

I used to be a Camarilla DST and tried to ban guns in game for a period of time; the goal was to get players to play their character's abilities rather than just shoot each other.

The context of the game was set not long after the Port Arthur masacare, in 'RL' there had been a massive gun buy back - guns were genuinely rare items. While the game is a fantasy game, it was intended to be set as an overlay over the real world.

While our intentions were good - get the players to role play that they have superhuman strength (after all why would you bother with a gun - which needs ammo and might be traced, when you can simply break someones neck or whatever) but it backfired badly with players coming up with more elaborate and creative ways to prove they *must* be able to obtain a gun in game.

Re:Just ... HOW???

[Opportunist]

"Biggest gun" was a loose term for "whatever makes your char powerful". Imagine a character getting the chance to diablerize a 3rd gen vampire. Imagine this becoming known.

Question for 100 bucks: How long does he have 'til his demise?

Re:Just ... HOW???

[Macgrrl]

We did a plot called "A Capadocian in a Can" where Capadocia had been defeated, his ashes split into 8 (? too long ago) parts - one part given to each of the Clans to protect. The presence of even one of these partial ashes collection was enough to cause great chaos. It was interesting to see all the maneouvering when one came into our National game.

Re:Just ... HOW???

[Opportunist]

Let me guess, everyone wanted to get the cans, but nobody wanted anyone to know that he has them? :)

I have no faith in CCP

[brkello]

Hopefully they will ditch the single shard idea which doesn't even work for Eve when you try to have large scale battles. Eve has a lot of good concepts hidden behind a UI designed by people with mental retardation ranging from slight to severe. I just can't see them making a good "traditional" MMORPG. They are going to have to get a boat load of artists that can do animation, learn how to design a UI, adopt a different server model. If I were a fan of this IP, CCP would be the last people I would working on it. I'd rather see SOE do it...that's how little faith I have in CCP to be able to execute this game well. Besides, they have a history of letting their employees cheat in their games and then not firing them. At best, this game will achieve niche status like Eve. Good concepts, a lot of potential, but ultimately will fall short of doing anything great because they lack the talant and the ability to make a game without being swayed by their "hardcore" playing buddies.

Re:I'm hoping they dont do each race as an expansi

[Opportunist]

If they toss them into the same pool as Vampires and Werewolves, I predict a messy and not really enjoyable experience for you. Given that, as a Mage, you mostly survive on being "mostly human" and hardly distinguishable from ordinary people by the other supers (which doesn't apply in a MMORPG, where you may safely assume that everyone who's not an NPC is some kind of supernatural), and the fact that for every kind of combat (and taking damage) you ARE mostly human (i.e. a soft target by any kind of definition), what do you think will be the average griefer's prefered target?

Right. Changelings. 'cause they can't even fire back sensibly.

Unless they manage to pull off a game that revolves mostly around RP and less around hack'n'slash like almost all other current MMORPGs, you'll have a hard time having fun as a Mage or Changeling.

playable factions

[Katmando911]

It would be a really cool idea if they had everybody start out as a normal human, then later in the game is given a choice to become a warewolf, vampire, mage, or just stay human (vampire hunter, etc). There's a lot of potential with the WoD franchise. I'd play it.

Re:playable factions

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be like Star Wars Galaxy, though. Everyone wants to be a Jedi. Even though it doesn't make sense for the setting to have everyone you meet be a Jedi, the community demands it. Not many people are going to go into a World of Darkness game wanting to just be a normal human.

Re:playable factions

[Katmando911]

sure, most people wouldn't stay a human, but it'd be nice to have a choice between Vampire, Warewolf, or Mage

Day / Night cycles?

[aapold]

How the hell are they going to handle daytime / night time? I mean it doesn't make sense to have 50% of your game time useless to a significant (majority?) percentage of your population... but at the same time not having dayling crimps advantages of the non-kindred types. Possibilities - make it real time (but no seasonal variation) thus your peak hours are night, and allow the others who can play during the day to do so....have quick daylight cycles, make them pass quickly, but still have everyone be in terror and setting their watches to make sure it don't come up on them... etc etc.. Or just have the entire world be dark, and gimp everyone else.

Re:Day / Night cycles?

[Anonymous Coward]

easy solution. HUGE UNDERWORLD. Subway systems, ancient ruins, underground vampire cities. tunnels leading to buildings on the surface.

Re:Day / Night cycles?

[Walkingshark]

This was the first question that entered my mind. If vampires are going to figure heavily in it, how are they going to handle the sunlight question? It works in a single player game like Bloodlines because you just have everything take place at night, but... hmmm Maybe it'll be like a mix of DDO and COH. Vampires will have a hub city that is always dark, Werewolves will have a hub out in the woods, there will be little or no mixing between them except in instanced PVP quests and special PVP zones.

Hopefully it will be based on V:tM:Redemption

[blincoln]

Most. Melodramatic. Videogame. Evar. But is still the only PC RPG to my knowledge that lets you end up with a party of vampires in trenchcoats armed with miniguns.

WODNF

[Anonymous Coward]

I sure can't wait for World of Duke Nukem Forever.

Horrid Idea!

[morari]

The World of Darkness is great, and the past two games based on Vampire: the Masquerade are among my favorite in any genre. Bloodlines especially had a great sense of character (despite a lackluster ending). The problem with the idea of an MMO is that they will not do it correctly. The World of Darkness is not D&D, it's not for power gamers, it's for people actually looking to roleplay; people that wish to act out a character and be absorbed by the STORY, not collecting weapons and level grinding. While it could be nice, starting out as a human perhaps and then "encountering" your supernatural powers (or not!), the roleplaying aspect will be lost, period.

MMORPG announcement form

[StikyPad]

[Company Name] is announcing its decision to turn [Franchise] into a [Superlative] new MMORPG set in the award-winning [Franchise] universe! It will feature the latest in [3D Feature] technology and each of the avatars will be rendered in [Superlative] detail! Players will be able to visit [Landscapes], massive [Type of Settlement], and many other exotic locations!

[Franchise] will allow thousands of players to interact within the same persistant state world, adventuring together or fighting against each other in epic battles*! Among other features, players will be able to own [nouns] and ride [animal or vehicle], and [Guilds/Companies/Clans] will be able to purchase [Status Symbols] once they have achieved enough [Arbitrary Measures]!

There will be [Integer] playable races from [2 or 3] factions, as well as [Integer] classes, including [Ranged Combat], [Melee Class], [Healing Class], and [Worthless Hybrid Class]! A vast storyline will put players in the middle of the action, and [Random or Recurring Time Period] events will provide a chance for players to win valuable prizes and items! Tradskills will allow players to craft [items] by performing [tedious activity] until [death]. A fully customizable user interface will allow players to craft an experience that best suits their play style! Reserve your copy today!

* [Company Name] reserves the right to ban anyone at any time for any reason.

Re:I'm hoping they dont do each race as an expansi

[Macgrrl]

Unless I can play a Bastet - not interested. My Ceilican wants to come out and play again.

I used to play in an all Bastet chapter of the Camarilla. The players were all Regional officers or National Board members.

Re:I'm hoping they dont do each race as an expansi

[Coraon]

I dont know, I see mage as a real, get the first shot off first kinda toon, I mean if I turn the vampire into a lawn orniment then I dont have to worry much about him eating me. Thats why I think the real griefers will be mages, they dont worry about humanity, they only worry about their version of the masqurade. As for wearwolves, yeah those guys are just nasty six ways from sunday, but I think this MMO would be well served by allowing players to heavely customise their toons, and not making them stand out agents the human background unless you choose to. Its harder to grief someone if they all look like background NPC's

Awesome potential

[obeythefist]

The PvP would be incredible. Werewolves vs. Vampires, truth be told, is an almost untapped genre in terms of MMO's. Game balance would be tough. The whole game design is going to be critical. Will there be huge cities being fought over in a war completely unknown to the human population? Will players need to get a car to drive from point A to point B?

Or will they rush to market and grossly underdeliver, making a flop out of a tremendously promising franchise?

Re:Awesome potential

[Anonymous Coward]

Pvp Kindred vs Garou would be pointless. It would boil down to this.

Melee: Chrinos form garou = Dead vampire. Homid form garou = Dead werewolf. Lupus form garou = Running and preying to Gaia the vampire does not have celerity.

Ranged: Vampire flees, or pumps a load of bullets into said garou.

Also, there would have to be close proximity woodlands. Unless were talking glass walkers and such. All the same, how long would it take before we heard garou whining about how a group of them were hanging out in homid and a group of assamites dropped obfuscate, one blows off silence of fiery blood so their whispers and chat are muted, and rips them all apart.

Garou Vampires in most circumstances.

Why is everyone so focused on the vampire aspect

[ihuntrocks]

As an avid fan of White Wolf's World of Darkness games (all LARP, former Camarilla storyteller and the like) I'm kind of saddened to see everyone (or at least from what I've read thus far) hyping up just the potential Vamire aspect of it. The World of Darkness has many other things to offer, from mortals to Mages to Werewolves to Prometheans, all of which would be equally fun to play in my opinion. It would be nice to see at least some of the other elements included for play, rather than the standard Vampire aspect (which don't get me wrong, I love playing LARP....yey for fake political backstabbing). But given the choice, I'll take a Mastigos any day of the week as my character......complete with "reality"'s favorite bitch-slapping tool: paradox. That would be awesome concept to see in an MMORPG that we have not seen before really, and it would be annoying, but oh so much fun at the same time. I'll be interested to see what comes out of all of this. Either way, we have a long time to wait and in the mean time, I'll be keeping busy with the Camarilla and good old WoD LARP.

I'll definitely play this

[petrus4]

if/when it comes out. The PC Vampire: The Masquerade was an atmospheric and generally awesome game, IMHO...and my younger brother and I are just the sort of deranged freaks that said atmosphere appeals to, as well. ;-)

If you're into this sort of thing, I suspect this game will definitely be something to look forward to, if it's anything like V:TM was.

To help speed development time...

[fedx]

World of Darkness. Maybe they could speed up development time by using the Doom 3 engine.

Re:I'm hoping they dont do each race as an expansi

[Opportunist]

But since nobody will want to play a "mere" human, every player character can safely be assumed to be a super. How do you want to "blend in"? After a few weeks, you will KNOW your hunting ground and you'll notice anyone who doesn't belong there, no matter how "NPC like" he behaves.

Could be good, but...

[Dreadtide]

I would love to see an MMO based of the World of Darkness. (Encompassing all therein)

There are quite a few problems to be overcome however.

First and foremost: Where does the snakes body go without it's head? No where. Story tellers of some variety would be required. GM's running massive story lines/chronicles would work, but, it would take a massive amount of effort. (Writers. Lots and lots of them.)

Players: The WoD is a semi-refined place. The players would have to be held to a "chat policy" of some kind. Have you ever played WoW? Chat like that would destroy this game. It would scare away the serious players and in a game that is based almost entirely on people's ability to communicate, it would be the black death.

Power gamers: There is always the guy, you know the one, maybe your friends brought him along to game. Maybe you've played online/forums/blogs/e-mail etc. You've met him. His power is that, he has all powers. He cannot be hurt because of his massive amount of strength/magic/fate. If exp is not implemented correctly, it could very well turn into that WoW episode of south park. You know, where the single guy killed an entire server.

Servers: I know, this will be the third time I've mentioned WoW, but, it seems to be a bench mark of some kind. There is nothing massively multi player about 7 million players, when those 7 million players are stretched across hundreds of "realms." Honestly, this is a niche. There are only so many people that will play. Though I'm sure it will attract more, due to the non-basement, Cheetos and dew, feel of it.

Finally: The hierarchy of power I've seen over the last 15 years. It goes something like this:

Mages
Vampires
Garou
Hunters
Fae
Mortals
Wraiths (incorporeal = bottom of the list)

There are more, but the important ones are listed.

The problem being, the things on the list can kill everything below itself. In most cases with ease.

I won't even begin to get into what a Mage can do. Suffice to say, a mage created in the right way could kill just about anything, besides other mages.

I could go on much further with the problems.

The ST problem is a solvable one. It would require an entirely new way of playing MMOs. Players would have to be given a vastly different amount of control. I have so much more I could say on the matter, but this has gone on long enough.

If you read all this babble: Give yourself 5 nerd exp.
I'm a 10th level vice president.