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Safari on Windows, Leopard Debut at WWDC

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the another-contender-in-the-ring dept.

comm2k writes to mention that Apple has announced a Windows version of Safari along with Leopard, the new version of Mac OS X at this years World Wide Developers Conference in San Francisco. "He said Safari was 'the fastest browser on Windows', saying it was twice as fast as Internet Explorer. A test version of Safari for Windows XP and for Vista is available for download from the Apple website. Apple is hoping to replicate the success of iTunes, which has proved enormously popular on both Macs and Windows machines."

111 of 850 comments (clear)

  1. All of the major news by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

    * Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) - ...of course. This was the main focus of the keynote. A "feature complete" version of Leopard was demonstrated, and all WWDC attendees receive the current, feature complete beta of Leopard and Leopard Server. Demos, movies, and more information about all of the many new features are available here. No one outside of the conference will receive these builds (but can be expected to receive later seeds). Leopard is still on track to ship in October. Leopard is $129, or $69 edu/govt (as usual). Free/cheap upgrades to Leopard will likely only for hardware purchased within month prior to its release (also as usual). (See also Leopard Server).

    Mac OS X and Mac OS X Server press releases with more info.

    * iPhone third party development - iPhone, previously thought to be completely closed, will have development possible via rich "Web 2.0" applications. Details on this are a little sketchy, and it's not what some hoping for a full iPhone SDK wanted, but it appears that all external app development will happen via web apps. However, it also appears such apps will appear as and have the look and feel of other iPhone apps. While this is news, it appears analysts are interpreting this as "new bad news", even though there was no expectation previously that iPhone would be an open platform, since it appeared that it would be closed, and this announcement is actually a positive development over the previous situation. iPhone is also still in schedule to ship on June 29 at 6pm via Apple retail stores and AT&T corporate stores. Still no news on specifics for online sales, preordering, etc.

    Press release with more info.

    * Safari Mac OS X and Windows - Safari is now available, in its 3.0 beta form, on Mac OS X 10.4.9 and Windows XP/Vista. At first glance, Safari is much, much faster than it was previously on Mac OS X, and includes a range of new features. This is the same version of Safari that will ship on Leopard and (essentially) iPhone. Safari is now also available on Windows; this is obviously going to be used as a channel of development for iPhone, since all external iPhone apps will essentially be Safari web apps.

    Press release with more info.

    * No new hardware, but the Apple Store and the rest of the Apple web site has a new look (which was why the Apple Store was down, which some see as an indication of new hardware announcements).

    * Keynote summary

    * Keynote archive will be available later today here.

    1. Re:All of the major news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Vinceb, too proud to hit "Tab"
      :P

    2. Re:All of the major news by mr100percent · · Score: 5, Informative

      EA announced at the WWDC that they will be porting games over to the Mac, and having simultaneous releases from here on.

    3. Re:All of the major news by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Informative

      What I mean is, the World Of Warcraft is a true multiplatform, OpenGL game. The EA stuff will probably be Windows .exe files tailored to run under OS X.

      Mac OS X cannot run .exe files. If you want your program to run on OS X, without requiring the end user buying Parallels or Wine, you will be packaging your executable in a .app directory like the rest of us.

      They can't be TOO windows-ish, as very few video cards on Macs support DirectX 9 or whatever games are now, and Macs don't ship with any Windows libraries. But since EA has written for so many different platforms as it is (Windows, Xbox 1 and 2, PS1,2,3, all manner of Nintendos) their games are probably written meta enough that they can be adapted without too much difficulty.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    4. Re:All of the major news by jacobw · · Score: 4, Informative

      he means being able to type things like 'wp slashdot' to go to the wikipedia slashdot page. It's incredibly useful and is one of the reasons I can't even consider using safari in real life. If that's all that's holding you back, just install Saft. Works like a charm, and has a ton of other useful features.
      --
      Arr! Read The Government Manual for New Pirates!
    5. Re:All of the major news by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Inability to drop in commodity hardware remains one of the biggest reasons Apple will not gain as many converts as people think.

      As much as Microsoft has a virtual monopoly on software, Apple has a literal monopoly on nearly everything that touches their machines.

    6. Re:All of the major news by Macka · · Score: 2, Interesting

      iPhone, previously thought to be completely closed, will have development possible via rich "Web 2.0" applications
      What this needs is something akin to Google Gears, so that developers can write offline apps too. Can't say I'm particularly impressed with the way it sounds at the moment, though I'll reserve judgement until I can see it in action.

      As for Safari 3.0 Beta, I'm using it on OS X right now and it's a big improvement over the previous version. Much faster on Javascript. Navigation in Google Reader is way faster than Firefox for me now. Oh and the Rich Text compose widget works in Google Mail too, which is a first for Safari. Haven't tried Google's word and spreadsheet apps yet, but I expect they'll work too.

    7. Re:All of the major news by moosesocks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I hope that EA takes the same policy as Blizzard does, and bundles both PC and Mac versions of the game in the same box.

      It makes it easy to upgrade/transition between platforms, not to mention, gives both versions equal retail penetration. It's good for them AND the consumer (although EA hasn't been one to traditionally think along logical lines)

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    8. Re:All of the major news by he-sk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Others have already mentioned SafariStand and Saft that provide that functionality. I use AcidSearch, which is Free Software.

      --
      Free Manning, jail Obama.
    9. Re:All of the major news by greenstrat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Safari 3.0 for Windows passes Acid2 test, just FYI.

    10. Re:All of the major news by mikeisme77 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Using Opera as an example of a browser with features of Firefox is a bad example... Opera tends to have a lot of features before Firefox, which the Firefox developer later integrate into Firefox. Of course, I'm biased as Opera is my favorite browser, although it's current direction (starting with 9.10) has made me somewhat unhappy (I don't like the tighter integration with Yahoo! and the speed dial thing is just kind of weird/annoying to me). I also don't use Opera because I am addicted to several Google products (such as Calendar) that don't work properly under Opera (I blame this on Google, not Opera... Opera is completely standards compliant last time I checked). On the plus side, I recently discovered some features of Firefox that allow me to make it behave even more like Opera. Now if Firefox could just get Opera's speed, clean up the code base/fix memory leaks, and become fully standards compliant then I'll be happy.

      --
      Read my blog posts on usability.
    11. Re:All of the major news by heinousjay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, you don't speak for everyone at Slashdot either.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    12. Re:All of the major news by zdzichu · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is not feature complete. ZFS support is read-only.

      --
      :wq
    13. Re:All of the major news by dbrutus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Transgaming's website currently has the EA announcement on their home page. They explicitly say that their engine will be used.

      The history of these sorts of ports has been very bad for gaming houses that have tried them. Sales have been disappointing as the Apple crowd historically have turned their noses up at them. We'll see if there's going to be a repeat.

  2. Open Letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear PC users,

    It's no secret iTunes turned to shit as soon as Apple had to start catering to PC users. It was version 4.1, if memory serves, around the time they let you cavedwellers into our music store. The demand for PC compatibility is the major reason iTunes is still a Carbon app, according to insiders, when every other iApp has since been rewritten in Cocoa to behave like a decent Mac application.

    Now there's Safari 3's bastard child, Safari 3 for PC. Although the Mac flavor sits gracefully on the desktop with its Cocoa brethren, the Windows version sticks out like a cold glass of Metamucil in the men's room at Penn Station. Technical limitations of Windows ensure Safari looks shittier even than most other PC applications. It won't be long before the fecal tide comes sloshing to Safari on Mac, as happened with iTunes before. You PC users, crashing the party again with your filth.

    Frankly, we think Apple should revoke PC compatibility from across its entire product line. Only when the last PC user is forced from our platform shall we enjoy freedom, again and at last, from your tasteless, backwards demands.

    Love,
    Mac users

    1. Re:Open Letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dear Mac User,

      Whenever Apple ports and application to Windows, they always make it slow and buggy. First they tormented us with Quicktime - a slow player by all standards, which had the audacity to attach itself to every media file on the system, even files it could not play. As if that wasn't bad enough, it crashed more than Windows Media Player.

      Apple then comes out and adds iTunes. This "wonderful" piece of software runs several services in the background, some of which are normally not even needed/used, yet each sonsistantly sucks up several percent of a modern 2+Ghz CPU, and dozens of MB of memory. Added to the lackluster performance in comparison to other music players, like Winamp, this is not a desireable app.

      Now Apple wants to "grace" us with Safari? Please, tell your computer company to be honest when it tries to get users to switch, and not provide us with software that slows down and gums up our Windows machines, so that we are deluded into thinking that Apple is better.

    2. Re:Open Letter by oyenstikker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am a web developer. Every time I have seen a problem with my pages on Konqueror or Safari, it has turned out that I was not following the specs properly. It is more a reference implementation than another browser to hack for.

      --
      The masses are the crack whores of religion.
    3. Re:Open Letter by Niten · · Score: 4, Informative

      I wouldn't necessarily call it "hacking" for Safari, considering that Safari's KHTML-based rendering engine is more standards compliant than either Firefox or IE.

    4. Re:Open Letter by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Informative

      Screw Safari, I never hacked for it and I don't want to start. Hacking for IE is bad enough.

      You have to "hack" to get IE to work. If you code to standards, generally Safari, Firefox, Opera, Konquerer, etc. all just work. We've found a few Safari specific bugs here, but all of them turned out to be bugs in our HTML, which were just handled a little better by Firefox.

    5. Re:Open Letter by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny
      Dear Mac Users,

      We feel the same way about our game software. Why on earth companies like Blizzard would waste their time catering a bunch of Kool-aid drinking hippies, when they could be spending their time developing better content for us real gamers, is beyond me. Gaming communities have only went downhill since these companies abandoned their traditional user base and let a bunch of Prius-driving, artsy, self-righteous, cocky assholes into our ranks.

      Therefore, I propose a truce. We knuckle-dragging rednecks will agree to forgo Mac software on our PC's if you hemp-sweater-wearing cult members will agree to give up our game software on your Macs.

      Deal?

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:Open Letter by Sciros · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's an ok way to think about it, but from a practicality standpoint it just doesn't matter. Since conforming to the w3c specs isn't something browsers are generally keen on, it's more an issue of how many different ones need to be accomodated than anything else. Which one of those browsers is "correct" is hardly relevant. It becomes moot altogether when that browser is 3% of those out there (depending on your audience, of course) :-/

      --
      I like basketball!!1!
    7. Re:Open Letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hmm... in my experience, coding to IE was much easier because it was much better at interpreting how you wanted something to look like without worrying about being 100% 'standards compliant'. If a site didn't work in FF and worked fine in IE, that was more due to FF not knowing what to do with your code unless you put it together perfectly.

      In other words, as a web "developer" you prefer IE because you can be lazy and sloppy and it lets you get away with it.

      I don't think it's fair to bash IE for not complying.

      Of course it is. Standards are supposed to make your life easier, because everyone agrees up front on how it all works and there is no need to worry about your customers using a browser you havn't tested with: it's all standards, right? Except that IE breaks that, because it doesn't understand a lot of very useful standards and a lot of web "developers" (Like yourself) are sloppy and lazy and write bad code (You again, by the way).

      Stop being sloppy and lazy, is what I'm saying here.

    8. Re:Open Letter by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I concur. I've written a few (small) sites to the spec, then tested in Safari and had them work fine. Then I've tested them in IE and Mozilla and discovered that the specs aren't as well-supported as I'd hoped...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Open Letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dear Mac Users,

      We welcome this separation. While we're at it, please resurrect the "megahertz myth" and stop using processors made popular by PC users. Oh, and also, please stop capitalizing on compressed digital music made popular by PC users and Napster, a PC-only application. Without riding the mp3 coattail, Apple would not have only dropped the "Computer" part of its name, but the "Apple" part too. We also ask that Apple stop hyping the iPhone as something new, as PPC phone users have had that exact same interface for what, two years now?

      We recommend that Apple go back to its roots and segregate itself from anything PC related, such as returning to ADB and Superdisks. In the U.S., we would also like Apple to develop its own 173volt power grid, to be called iPower, so that we PC users do not have to share anything with you iQueers.

      [iHeart],

      PC Users

    10. Re:Open Letter by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hmm... in my experience, coding to IE was much easier because it was much better at interpreting how you wanted something to look like without worrying about being 100% 'standards compliant'.

      This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You don't have to worry about being standards compliant? How do you write pages? Do you just make up your own version of the standard and write to that and IE happens to read it magically, somehow?

      When I generate code, I look at the spec and implement it, then I test it. I'm not always perfect at it, but I basically make things work the way the documented standard claims it should look. Then I test it. Generally it works in every browser (Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, Opera, Konquerer, OmniWeb, etc.) except IE. Then I try to add hacks to get it to look "okay" in various versions of IE all of which break the standard and all or which break it differently. I certainly can and do blame IE for being the only browser that can't work as the spec designates.

      If a site didn't work in FF and worked fine in IE, that was more due to FF not knowing what to do with your code unless you put it together perfectly.

      Generally, I find that when a site does not work in FF it is because I screwed up and did not get it to spec. Generally when it does not work in IE, it is because I did things right, but IE either implements the spec incorrectly and differently than all the other browsers, or because IE is 6-8 years behind the times and is still using a partial implementation of an ancient spec.

      Either way, the only reason the 'standards' got put together was because the minorities needed some way to differentiate themselves from IE.

      Are you trolling? The spec predates any implementation and MS participated in writing most of them.

      More power to them, we need the competition, but I don't think it's fair to bash IE for not complying.

      I think it is more than fair to bash the single largest, wealthiest company for failing to match the quality of a half dozen smaller companies and another half dozen projects funded by hobbyists. MS does not comply with the specs because it is in their best interests to derail the standards and hold back Web development to help maintain their OS monopoly. They are breaking the standards for personal profit and if you don't see that I have a lovely, historic bridge you might be interested in purchasing.

    11. Re:Open Letter by quacking+duck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seems Apple ported the font-smoothing technology over to Windows as part of Safari. I'm finding it looks a bit too blurry in comparison to Windows' native font-smoothing when viewed on my screen, sitting almost a metre away (I've a 20" widescreen LCD).

      If you're trying to test against Safari without an actual Mac though, I think it's definitely an accurate picture of the resulting webpage.

    12. Re:Open Letter by Watts+Martin · · Score: 2, Funny

      First they tormented us with Quicktime - a slow player by all standards, which had the audacity to attach itself to every media file on the system, even files it could not play. As if that wasn't bad enough, it crashed more than Windows Media Player.

      But look on the bright side: QuickTime for Windows is remarkably ugly.

    13. Re:Open Letter by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 4, Funny

      And in the meantime, we console gamers wonder when you shooter-playing high schoolers will run out of money for your yearly $3500 neon-lit Dell upgrades whose sole purpose for existence is to run content-lacking tech demos that win "Game of the Year" awards from paid press outlets. It's you guys who have let gaming communities run themselves into the ground by turning gaming into an ever-shrinking, expensive tech niche with no mainstream appeal.

      When you're waiting in line for your $400 video card to draw frilly plants on screen so you can feel all hardcore for running DirectX 10, I'll be blasting away in Metroid Prime 3 or perhaps grinding in World of Warcraft on my MacBook.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    14. Re:Open Letter by Sciros · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow does anyone read comments anymore (or their context) before rating them?

      --
      I like basketball!!1!
    15. Re:Open Letter by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'll tell you the same thing I told my wife. Baby formula only lasts a few weeks at most. But that new video card will be good for at least a year.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    16. Re:Open Letter by KH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't know if someone already has mentioned, but I think Safari is a smokescreen. Real intention might be to bring back OPENSTEP to Windows, or the Yellow Box on Windows. Just like Intel version of OS X was secretly maintained at Apple, it would appear that OPENSTEP was alive and well at Apple. That Safari runs on Windows implies that other Cocoa apps can run on Windows as well. I don't know what this means in grand scheme of things, but one benefit Apple could have is to attract third party developers.

      There were rumors and discussions on this since 2005.

    17. Re:Open Letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dear PC Users,

      We have received your request that we cease and desist using all computer technology popularized by PCs. You have little idea how long we have waited for a complete segregation of the PC and Apple world, and the chance to free ourselves from the yoke of relating to the hoi polloi!

      Your request is feasible, on the grounds that the PC world conform to the same constraints and cease using all computer technology initially introduced by, or initially popularized by, Apple.

      To that end, please stop using the following: 3.5 inch floppy disks; USB; Firewire; WYSIWYG software of any type; computer cases that are not puke-colored (technical term); computers for the purposes of design, desktop publishing and the like; graphical user interfaces; spreadsheets; any home or small business computer that is not A) assembled from a kit, or B) interfaced with through punch cards, audio cassette tape, blinking LEDs, and/or toggle switches.

      Please enjoy computing with your Altairs! As an extra bonus, your operating system will be the cheapest and most stable Microsoft software yet developed!

      Sincerely,

      Mac Users

    18. Re:Open Letter by moderatorrater · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As much as I love standards, and I do, it makes it hard to deal with safari when every other browser works differently. In my opinion, if the standard works differently than 90% of the market, then maybe the standard needs to change.

    19. Re:Open Letter by Thalagyrt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So you're saying that I can't install the Mac native version of UT2007 that's coming out at/around the same time as the Windows version and play? And you're saying the GeForce 8600 that's standard in the MacBook Pro now doesn't even have any graphics power at all? Hell, HL2 runs absolutely fine under Crossover on my MBP with an X1600. Zero artifacts. And how the hell is running Windows in Boot Camp any different than running it on a PC with the same hardware? Nice to see that you don't even look shit up before you run your mouth. Your argument is stupid, as are you. And your troll mod was deserved because that's exactly what it was. Now STFU and GTFO.

      --
      Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo!
    20. Re:Open Letter by laffer1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple implemented a wrapper around the original qt/kde code when they ported khtml to the Mac. Who's to say they didn't do the same with the Windows version? Besides, if you install WebObjects 5.2 on Windows, you'll see that there is a lot of supporting crap for that old stuff. I don't see that stuff in the Safari install.

      If you are correct, then Apple is ready to give up on the computer business. Windows developers have .NET and Java already. They don't need anything else. Plus, if they really want to use cocoa like code, they can always run GNUstep.

      --
      MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
    21. Re:Open Letter by prockcore · · Score: 2, Informative

      considering that Safari's KHTML-based rendering engine is more standards compliant than either Firefox or IE.


      Webkit started on KHTML, but they've changed it a LOT.

      You can check the CSS selectors test.
      Safari passes 299/513 tests, firefox passes 314/513, konqueror passes 508/513.

      That shows you how far Apple has drifted from KHTML.
    22. Re:Open Letter by Yvan256 · · Score: 2

      You damn kids, get off my lawn.

      Sincerely,
      Commodore 64.

  3. KDE / Konqueror by bms20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Glad they based it on Konqueror - Now how about contributing to KDE and or making a version for Linux? -bms20

    1. Re:KDE / Konqueror by ciroknight · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's been based on KHTML/Konq since conception. If you want to use Safari (or its equivalence in Linux), just use Konq.

      The only reason it runs on Windows now is because Adobe put a shit-ton of work into WebKit/WebCore to make their Apollo product, and now Apple's using the benefit of their partial-Carbon port to port Safari over and use the Win32-ized WebKit to power it.

      The real good thing that's happening in WebKit/WebCore right now is the work going on to make it work with GTK+/GDK. Once that happens we'll have a web browser that looks and feels native to every major UI toolkit out there.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    2. Re:KDE / Konqueror by ciroknight · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's in svn, check it out, read through it, commit some code. It's getting further and further along every single time I check up on it.

      The GTK+ bindings for WebKit will enable WebKit to run in GNOME; of course you'd need to write a complete browser (or find a way to hack it into Galeon or Epiphany), but because the generic widget-set in WebKit can be re-implemented with just about any widget toolkit you want (WxWidgets, GTK+, Qt, etc), it makes the engine extremely generic (which is the greatest thing about WebKit).

      The Carbon port is what allows Safari (a Carbonized app) to run in Windows. Think Safari:Firefox::WebKit:Gecko.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
  4. fastest? by brunascle · · Score: 5, Funny

    i'm pretty sure i can get lynx running through cygwin.

    1. Re:fastest? by J0nne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not even the fastest. I compared both Firefox and Safari in a vmware image containing Windows, and Firefox beat out Safari on every page I threw at it. I'd test it natively, but for some reason Safari wouldn't install in WINE. Actually, when I compare konqueror's rendering speed with Firefox on Ubuntu, Konqueror is slower than Firefox too (on Ubuntu).

  5. It's in beta by doubleofive · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've already crashed Safari on Windows three times, but I was being pretty hard on it. You have to remember that this is still beta before you start bashing it, though.

    --
    Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!
  6. No, they aren't by k_187 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, Apple is not trying to replicate iTunes' success. Nobody on windows would give a crap if iTunes wasn't the main way to get things onto an iPod. From what info was given about apps for the iPhone, Safari is the SDK. Any greater market share for WebKit is just gravy.

    --
    11 was a racehorse
    12 was 12
    1111 Race
    12112
    1. Re:No, they aren't by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, Apple is not trying to replicate iTunes' success.

      I think you're more right than you know. I think Apple is trying to replicate the iPod's success. They used iTunes to help sell the iPod to Windows users. I think they're porting Safari to try to help sell the iPhone to Windows users. The iPhone is running OS X and a version of Safari. It runs Web 2.0 applications in Safari. This release means Windows developers don't need OS X in order to develop and test for the iPhone. It also makes testing for Safari easier for Windows only Web developers.

      Personally, I bounce back and forth between Firefox and Safari. Safari is faster and has some really nice features (support for services). Safari 3 has some things to offer too. I'm using it right now and the ability to just resize this text field kicks ass. I hope every other browser steals the idea. The Web inspector is nice too.

  7. Already done by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Informative

    Safari has always been based on KDE's KHTML, and they do contribute back to the community via the WebKit project.

    See also:

    KDE adds Safari feel to desktop Linux - The KDE Project has released a significant update to its K Desktop Environment software that includes refinements to the Konqueror Web browser derived from collaboration with Apple's Safari browser team.

    KDE's Konqueror Browser Reaps Safari Benefits - In a perfect example of how open source and proprietary software can benefit each other, Apple got a significant headstart by basing Safari on established technologies like KHTML & Konqueror. And in return, Apple's contributions back to the open source community have benefitted Konqueror.

    1. Re:Already done by Ant+P. · · Score: 2, Informative

      If I remember correctly, Apple's "contributions" back to KDE were in the form of an undocumented 11MB .patch file.

    2. Re:Already done by frogstar_robot · · Score: 4, Informative

      There was a lot of back and forth and Apple has improved their interaction with the KHTML devs. Apple has since made the Giant Patch of Doom available in a CVS repository and have been a bit more helpful and where and what they changed and why. It's probably not perfect according most FOSS project standards but it is better than the picture you paint.

  8. Cool by jaavaaguru · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've just played with Safari on Windows and it's cool. I'm unsure about the menu bar at the top though, and the extra 20 vertical pixels or so that it takes up - that just doesn't look as clean as it does on OS X. Windows needed another browser to give IE a run for its money, and this is it.

    And it supports rich text editing in GMail :-)

    I hope it will be supporting the plugin framework that Safari on OS X does, I like things like the Inquisitor search plugin.

    --
    Follow me
    1. Re:Cool by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the "in-window" menu bar (which is bad UI design

      Stop saying that! I do not think it means what you think it means. Personally, I like being able to see the menus for various applications at the same time. It means I don't have to click the window and wait for something unattached to the window to update before I can make changes.

      If you like the single menu bar, that's fine. I'm happy for you. But it's something that always bothered the hell out of me about the macos, and I'm glad they're the only ones doing it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Safari...? by motek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First thing I downloaded onto my newly bought Mac Mini was Firefox. Safari was just plain unbearable. Speed doesn't count for much, when proper rendering is not there.

    --
    I would like to die like my grandfather did - sleeping. And not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
    1. Re:Safari...? by Niten · · Score: 4, Informative

      Safari renders just fine –it's certainly more in line with the official specs than any other browser out there, with the possible exception of Opera. The problem is simply that Safari doesn't have Firefox's market share yet, so web developers who code all their sites with Firefox and IE in mind don't necessarily check to make sure they work well in Safari too.

      It's the same problem that we used to have with the old Mozilla Suite. Gecko has, for the most part, always been great; but it wasn't until more developers got on board that using Mozilla or Firefox as a daily web browser became a pleasant experience. If anything, the problem that Safari currently faces in this regard is much less significant than the hurdle Mozilla originally had to jump.

  10. THAT is Steve Jobs's "one more thing"? by Caspian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Safari for Windows?

    Not a radical new 16-core desktop? Not a 19" Macbook Pro? Not a 30" iMac? Not an Apple-branded virtualisation solution?

    Nooooo, SAFARI FOR WINDOWS>

    I must ask here.... what the fuck!? Who would care about this announcement? And I say that as a Mac fan!

    --
    With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
    1. Re:THAT is Steve Jobs's "one more thing"? by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is WWDC. It is a developer conference, not a consumer conference. Its focus has always been software (although WWDC has occasionally been the forum for hardware announcements). Apple is doing more and more product introductions as they're ready (e.g., like last week's new MacBook Pro introduction), and less and less product introductions at conferences and "special events".

      Everyone expecting brushed aluminum iMacs and new Cinema Displays shouldn't have expected that in the first place. And an Apple-branded virtualization solution? It's been known since last WWDC that Leopard wouldn't have integrated virtualization. With three different solutions already existing, plus Boot Camp, why would you even expect that, no matter how nice it would be?

      And who would care about this announcement? This isn't just "Safari for Windows". Jeez. It's the channel for development for iPhone, since all of iPhone's third-party development will be as Safari web apps.

  11. O... by daveschroeder · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...RLY?

    1. Re:O... by Sparks23 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not to mention that aside from WebKit, which the parent poster points to, or the zeroconf standard (which Apple helped to write), they've also contributed a lot of code to another open source project in particular. It's called the GNU Compiler Collection, or GCC for short. You might have seen it around on a Linux box or two, even. ;)

      --
      --Rachel
  12. Safari is the iPhone SDK by null-und-eins · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Safari for the PC is interesting for three reasons: (1) if widely adopted, it would force more web apps to become Safari friendly. Google apps, for example, often don't work with Safari. (2) Safari is the developemnt platform for iPhone apps. And by releasing Safari for the PC, the developer base just multiplied enormously. (3) Just the fact that iPhone apps are build from HTML and Javascript is going to shake up the mobile web scenario.

    --
    At the beginning was at.
    1. Re:Safari is the iPhone SDK by lurch_mojoff · · Score: 2, Informative

      BTW, Google apps already work with Safari 3 (well, there probably are bugs and glitches, but they generally work).

  13. Re:OMG not another one by Denis+Troller · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So before that you did not care about Safari users? OK, I can understand that, just looking at the market share :) Don't worry anyway. My guess is that Safari on Windows has more to do with iPhone SDK than with "we want our browser everywhere". iPhone apps being safari based AJAX apps, Apple wants Windows devs to be able to code/test it as well as Mac devs. They definitely have their eyes on the business market (just look at the "salesforce" remark), and they know they *have* to make iPhone dev possible from windows machine.

    --
    That's not a nick, that's my NAME.
  14. SVG, hooray! by KugelKurt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Safari 3 supports SVG! While the SVG compatibility is not that great, it's more than nothing.
    For screenshots see http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=541164449&size =o and http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=541164451&size =o

    1. Re:SVG, hooray! by jasenj1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed. I messed around with SVG about 5 years ago. I keep hoping it'll break into the mainstream. Maybe Safari 3.0 and the iPhone can help make that happen.

      - Jasen.

  15. Hopefully by Hawthorne01 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    this will be another kick in pants to all the web developers out there who don't/can't/won't test their sites in anything other than IE before deployment. Developing an intraweb app for a controllable and known set of apps, and something else altogether to build a customer-facing website that tells 20%+ of your audience that they're not welcome the minute they land on your homepage. Now, with the ability to test in all the major browsers right from one OS, there's no excuse not to have cross-browser functionality.

    --
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
  16. Re:I can't get it working by rlp · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, they have replicated the experience of iTunes on Windows!

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  17. To Site Devs... by daeg · · Score: 5, Informative
    To those site developers that are having issues with Safari on Windows, you can enable the Safari Debug tools like you can on Mac. On OS X you would do:

    defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1


    in a Terminal window. Obviously that command does not work on Windows.

    Instead, open %APPDATA%\Apple Computer\Safari\Preferences.plist in your favorite text editor. Add:

    <key>IncludeDebugMenu</key>
    <true/>


    and save it. Restart Safari. You now have a nifty "Debug" menu in the top menu bar, complete with the Javascript Console.
    1. Re:To Site Devs... by iluvcapra · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also add, if you right-click on any element in a WebKit view with the debug on, you will get the extremely good element inspector for the element you're on.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  18. I am split by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Insightful

    On one hand I would like to see some competition and many browsers would force developers to use something called the w3c standards which they no longer follow. Or I should say the browsers do not.

    However if this steals marketshare away from firefox it will make many web developers give up on anything non IE.

    - eg

    89% IE
    10% firefox

    sounds better to make a business case to a phb to support a website site that is w3c compliant and supports firefox vs

    89% IE
    6% Firefox
    4% Safari

    Which tells the phb that only IE matters as the rest are niche players that do not make significant marketshare to be worth the investment.

    Many website developers both love and hate Firefox as it is because they have more work but the hope is firefox3 will be acid2 compliant and will force IE 7.5 in the future to be as well.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
  19. Crashed/locked up on me too. by jasenj1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's locked up (CPU consumption at 95%+ for a long time with nothing to show) on me a few times already and that's without stress testing.

    I'm behind a corporate firewall, and while I can browse external sites I can't get to any internal servers. Sounds like a bug in the proxy handling.

    Also, the edge window size controls don't show up.

    - Jasen.

  20. Adblocking? Skinning by roelbj · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are just so many darn features and plugins for Firefox I have fallen in love with; however I am giving Safari an open-minded try right now. Off the top of my head, the glaring absence of the equivalent of an 'adblock' plugin is a show-stopper for now.

    I don't think it's nitpicking in this day and age to ask that a web-browser be skinnable as well. This theme reminds me of everything I hate about the Quicktime player. And what tab is open? Oh... the one that is just a *slightly* different shade of gray. And where are my UltraMon buttons?

  21. Re:font weirdness? by Dynedain · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's because instead of using the built-in Windows font smoothing (eg. ClearType) they decided to implement some bastardized version of the OSX font smoothing. The font smoothing on OSX is very nice, but Safari on Windows looks like crap! I would much prefer to use the built in font smoothing on Windows (like Firefox does).

    --
    I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
  22. Ajax as iPhone development environment? No Thanks. by tji · · Score: 4, Funny

    I bet that went over like a turd in a punch bowl. Talking to a bunch of Cocoa developers at WWDC, who have been listening to Apple sing the praises of Cocoa for years, and then heard about how iPhone was running "real Mac OS X" "with Cocoa" in the iPhone announcement.

    Now, Apple is telling us nice job learning Cocoa. But, for what we consider our biggest product ever, you should forget that and use Ajax. Welcome to web development.

    Also.. sorry about delaying Leopard, but look at why we had to delay it.. We've got Safari for Windows!!!

  23. I'm totally getting the Ultimate version. by Onan · · Score: 5, Funny

    I enjoyed Jobs's sniping at recent Windows versioning:

    "We've got a basic version, which is going to cost $129. We've got a Premium version, which is going to cost $129. We've got a Business version, $129. We've got an Enterprise version, $129. And we've got the Ultimate version, we're throwing everything into it, it's $129. We think most people will buy the Ultimate version."

    1. Re:I'm totally getting the Ultimate version. by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "We've got a basic version, which is going to cost $129. We've got a Premium version, which is going to cost $129. We've got a Business version, $129. We've got an Enterprise version, $129. And we've got the Ultimate version, we're throwing everything into it, it's $129. We think most people will buy the Ultimate version."

      See, this happens because Apple, being primarily a hardware company, practice their pricing discrimination on the hardware side (which does a similar thing to Vista). Their software is incidental to that, and tied to the hardware, so they don't do much with its pricing.

      Microsoft, OTOH, are primarily a software company, so they have to do their pricing discrimination on their software products.

  24. Not an Apple-branded virtualisation solution? by green+pizza · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >> Not an Apple-branded virtualisation solution?

    I, for one, am very happy Apple chose not to compete with Parallels / VMware. Apple and MS have already stomped on the toes of too many app developers in the past.

  25. A Kick In The Balls For Microsoft by WombatControl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ballmer is going to be throwing a lot of chairs today...

    Safari for Windows is the biggest threat to IE ever. The reason is simple: it's going to be bundled with iTunes. If Apple really wanted to kick Microsoft in the balls, they'd make the iTunes installer put Safari as the default browser -- or give it as an option during the install (with the default being yes, natch). That means suddenly, everyone who buys an iPod ends up using Safari as their default browser instead of IE. If Safari transparently migrates over their bookmarks and settings, a lot of those people, if not the majority, would be likely to stuck with Safari.

    It's the same "bundling" that got IE as the majority browser used against Microsoft for a change. All of a sudden, WebKit is the platform for web development on Macs, PCs, and the iPhone. That would would definitely cause a lot of heartburn in Redmond.

    Apple has a chance to give Microsoft a major kick in the balls... the question is whether they'll go that route or not. They're doing exactly what Microsoft has always wanted to do -- dominate an entire ecosystem from desktops to laptops to mobile to the television. This is what Bill Gates has been trying to do for the past 20 years, and Apple has done it in just about 5. It's an incredibly smart move on Apple's part, and a major blow to Microsoft's hegemonic ambitions.

    1. Re:A Kick In The Balls For Microsoft by hlimethe3rd · · Score: 5, Funny

      If there's one thing iTunes needs, it's a bigger, clunkier installer with more bundled software. That way, after installing (or even just upgrading) iTunes, not only will you have to spend time hunting for all the settings in QuickTime to get it out of your way, but also Safari. Yes, I think this is a great idea.

    2. Re:A Kick In The Balls For Microsoft by costas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Did you try Safari/Win? I just did, and in 5 secs flat I noticed the following: no resizing from all sides (although it popped up taller than the screen height), no Alt-D to get to the address bar, no Ctrl-Enter to fill-in www.*.com. Maybe Alt-D is not the end of the world, but no edge-resizing? is there a WinXP port of KHTML/WebKit written by actual windows devs?

    3. Re:A Kick In The Balls For Microsoft by earthbound+kid · · Score: 2, Informative

      In Safari, you don't type ctrl-enter to type www.*.com. You just type the name of the website and Safari is smart enough to figure out that you wanted .com on it's own.

  26. YellowBox for Windows is Back by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, Apple is not trying to replicate iTunes' success.

    Agreed - the browser marketshare thing is just a front for getting millions of people to beta test their application development framework - YellowBox for Windows is back. Next year you can have real applications on the iPhone (and Mac, and Windows).

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  27. Re:Why Safari? by hondo77 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't see a similar market opportunity in a free browser.

    iPhone apps. They've broadened the developer base for apps (which they won't make money on) for the iPhone (which, presumably, they will make money on).

    --
    I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
  28. More first impressions by bheer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    - Flash doesn't work despite reinstalling the flash player. This might actually be a feature.
    - Took 100MB of RAM (as reported by Task Manager) to render some tab groups.
    - OTOH, it's very fast to start: faster than Firefox, IE and even Opera.
    - Crashes on some non-Latin font pages (IE, Firefox don't on the same system)
    - Fonts look great on my LCD. Arial actually looks decent, unlike Windows' default elongated look.

    --
    Go somewhere random
  29. Re:font weirdness? by Tickletaint · · Score: 3, Informative

    To be fair, Firefox renders text like shit on OS X, compared with Safari or any native Mac application.

    --
    Make Slashdot readable! See journal.
  30. Re:Safari For Windows Fails For Me by shmlco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Report the problem. It is a public beta, after all.

    --
    Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  31. Safari on Windows....What's in it for Apple? by calstraycat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm sure there will be many threads here comparing features and performance to existing browsers available for Windows. I'm not interested in that. What I'm trying to figure out is how porting Safari to Windows will improve Apple's bottom line.

    When Apple developed a Windows version of iTunes the justification was obvious. It was developed to sell more iPods.

    I see no obvious reason for a Windows version of Safari. How is it going to generate additional revenue for Apple? Apple did not develop this just to have a greater market share for their browser. There is no money in that. The speculation one forum is that there must be a yet to be disclosed functional tie-in between the iPhone Safari and the PC/Mac Safari. But, besides being able to sync your PC bookmarks with your iPhone bookmarks, I can't think of any advantages.

    Anyone have some insights on how this development will put money in the bank at Apple?

    1. Re:Safari on Windows....What's in it for Apple? by MasterVidBoi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Anyone have some insights on how this development will put money in the bank at Apple?

      It is not to put money in the bank, it is a tool for Apple's survival (and they are in danger).

      Microsoft is pushing WPE/XAML hard, and if PHB's start thinking that they can gain access to all these flashy new features while only alienating 10% of the users (those alternate platform wierdos), they'll go for it. If Firefox+Safari can push IE's share on windows down into the 60-75% range, then it distrupts Microsoft's intention to replace the web standards with their own proprietary technologies.

      If Microsoft's plan succeeded, Apple would find itself with a consumer OS that couldn't view a lot of compelling content... (this same idea also neatly explains why Apple got into the media business, long before anybody had any idea that it would be so amazingly successful: otherwise, the world would have gone entirely to Windows Media, and apple's platform would have been left out in the cold).

    2. Re:Safari on Windows....What's in it for Apple? by Paulrothrock · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's in it for Apple? Well, the more people associate Apple with a good experience, the more folks are going to want to buy Macs rather than PCs. Then, Apple makes more money.

      The iPod is part of this strategy. The iPhone is part of this strategy. Safari for Windows is also part of this strategy.

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    3. Re:Safari on Windows....What's in it for Apple? by Luscious868 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone have some insights on how this development will put money in the bank at Apple?

      There are two areas where this will be advantageous for Apple. First, iPhone applications can be developed and tested on Windows boxes. This increases the potential pool of developers of 3rd party iPhone applications. The second advantage, and in the long run the most important of the two, is that Cocoa application can now run on Windows.

      Safari for Windows users are beta testing both the Safari application and the Cocoa for Windows API's at the same time. In a year or two after the bugs have been worked out Apple will release a version of XCode that runs on both the Mac and Windows that can create applications that will also run on both platforms with the click of a mouse (much like how XCode can currently produce binaries for both PowerPC and Intel).

      Paralles and Boot Camp are good stop gap solutions, but ultimately Apple wants more software that will run natively on OS X. By releasing a version of Xcode that can easily produce software that will run under both operating systems, developers interested in creating applications that can run on both platforms will move to XCode.

      It's a win / win for Apple, designed to both move more iPhones and eventually to move more Mac's as the number of applications that can run natively on OS X increases.

    4. Re:Safari on Windows....What's in it for Apple? by diamondsw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know - if I told my business they could implement something two different ways, only one would alienate 10% of the user base - there's no way in hell they'd do it. The web has very different economics than desktop software. A bank is not going to alienate 10% of its customers. Amazon, eBay, NewEgg, Discover, etc are not going to let 10% of their potential customers walk away.

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
  32. Safari 3 on Windows: First Impressions by Llywelyn · · Score: 2, Informative

    - Nice smooth interface, takes up less space than Firefox.
    - Definitely beta software. I get occasional and sporadic crashes. These are not currently consistently repeatable.
    - Font rendering is nice, including Unicode characters.
    - Unicode characters that I have fonts for no longer display as boxes in the title bar (they still do in Firefox).
    - Transitioning to pages sometimes takes significantly longer than it should. It will stall before loading the page.

    --
    Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
  33. Re:Well, it's definitely fast... by rduke15 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, it's what they call smoothing. You cannot turn it off. The choices are "light", "medium", and "atrocious?" (can't remember the last option). Anyway, the choices are blurred fonts or even more blurred fonts.

  34. Free versus paid software by klubar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why is it that Excel (and Office in general) are wonderful mac apps and even programmed following the base platform standards, yet Mac apps that are ported to the PC always stand out like a sore thumb. I'm clearly not the only one that hates QT -- why does this app need to be in the systems tray? Is it possible to uninstall/kill quick time. Either the macs folks don't know how to program for the PC or want to kill the platform with bad software.

    I think the difference is that Microsoft needs to SELL office on the Mac whereas Apple has to give away it's PC software.

    And by the way, did the PC need yet another browser (beyone IE and Firefox)?

  35. Re:I agree 100% by Cygfrydd · · Score: 2, Informative

    It’s amazing how when Microsoft programs something for the Mac platform, it always ends up being the best, but when Apple programs something for Windows, it ends up always being the worst.

    I’d definitely have to disagree with the assessment that Microsoft apps for the Mac are “the best;” that may well have been true in the past, but the current incarnation of Office for Mac is, without a doubt, the most bloated and ridiculously clunky ‘productivity suite’ I’ve ever had the misfortune of trying to use. Besides sucking memory like a hungry newborn, it has consistantly shown buggy formatting both in Word and in Excel.

    ... I use Office 2003 under Win2k in Parallels now.

    @yg
  36. Re:Firefox is the most at risk by Goaway · · Score: 4, Funny

    No.

  37. So you totally missed..... by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 2, Informative

    ....the part where Steve said that Safari is the SDK for iPhone apps didn't you?

    (^_^)

    --
    Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
    1. Re:So you totally missed..... by pushing-robot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple is encouraging developers to write Ajax apps for the iPhone. Now Windows users can develop and test their webapps in Safari easily. Makes sense to me.

      And with the same browser for OSX/Windows/iPhone, I'm sure Apple will be pushing for widgets/apps/whatever that carry over from your desktop to your iPhone.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
  38. Safari is the iPhone Desktop Companion! by Gekke+Eekhoorn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was thinking the very same thing!

    On top of that, it allows users to use the same web applications that they use on the iPhone on their Windows system. It will complement iTunes, in a way.

    While I'm sad that you can't code for the bare hardware of the iPhone, I don't think it's a very bad decision of Apple to limit iPhone's 3rd party apps to web applications, since that means you get instant desktop compatibility.
    Think of all those schweet Dashboard Widgets, they will now presumably work on the iPhone and on your Windows desktop as well!

    I think this is also a good time to point out http://gears.google.com/, the javascript SDK that Google made to support offline browsing of e.g. Google Reader. Definitely something awesome to have on the iPhone for rich Web 2.0 applications.

    iPhone/Safari web applications will definitely not suck.

    Wout.

  39. Re:Ultimate server version? Family pack? by Psykechan · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, they will have at least 3 seperate versions not even including the educational discounts or other such promotions. This is based on the current 10.4 prices.

    OS X Leopard 10.5 - $129
    OS X Leopard 10.5 Family Pack - $199
    OS X Server 10.5 - $499 and up

    They could prove me wrong and implement all of the server niceities into the consumer version and grant a new license that allows you to install on any systems you own but I seriously doubt that will happen. I'm fairly certain that when I upgrade to the Ultimate version that it will cost more than $129.

  40. Unoptimized CPU hog by Zhe+Mappel · · Score: 3, Insightful
    OK, for a lark I'm trying out the Safari beta on an older 2.4 ghz XP box with 512mb ram. With two tabs open, it's consistently working the CPU at between 80 and 90%. Whatever the hell for? Who slapped together this wunderpile?

    On the plus side, it's easy on the eyes. The Safari bookmarks implementation has always been smooth. And the adjustable Google search bar is better than most stabs at this on Firefox. It renders quickly, as claimed, though I can't say it renders perceptibly more quickly than Firefox.

    Even on OS X, though, I don't run Safari. It's barely customizable in an age when Firefox extensions have completely rewritten the rules of browsing. Why would I want to see ads? Why browse the way some web site or computer corporation thinks I should?

    This is like 1999, today.

  41. Not XP and Vista only! by swid27 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Despite what Apple's Web site says, it installs on Windows 2000 just fine.

    Hell, I'm typing this response in Safari 3 on Windows 2000.

  42. Re:Safari is no good on OS X 10.4 - windows? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Mail.app shows the URL of the link in the tooltip if you hover the mouse. Safari shows it in the status bar, which you can show or hide be hitting command-/, or looking in the 'view' menu.

    I am not trying to troll here I'm not convinced...
    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  43. Re:I agree 100% by Incadenza · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd definitely have to disagree with the assessment that Microsoft apps for the Mac are "the best;" that may well have been true in the past, but the current incarnation of Office for Mac is, without a doubt, the most bloated and ridiculously clunky 'productivity suite' I've ever had the misfortune of trying to use.

    You clearly have never used Office 98 for Mac. This was the only Office version for Mac that truly failed in the martketplace, and fairly so. This was when Microsoft tried to shove a Windows interface and a horrendeous back-end (extensions, extensions, extensions) down the throat of Macheads. Did not work. Even included some incursion of Clippy as a happy bouncing Mac. The horror, the horror, the horror.

  44. You are stupid by EraserMouseMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes AC, you are an arrogant, stupid idiot. Now moderators, go ahead and select "-1 Flamebait" for this post.

    Okay, now that we've got that out of the way I can continue. Apple knows exactly what it is doing. And it will work. More and more people are finding out that many browsers are better than IE. If Apple can convince PC users to use Safari that will be one less barrier to switching over from PC to a Mac. The list is getting longer of basic applications that run on both the Mac and PC. The longer this list gets the easier and more appealing it will be for PC people to make the switch. After Apple gains a significant market share they will be in a position to take advantage of critical mass. Customers will start switching in droves. Then they can focus on making the best Mac apps (based only on Cocoa). Not just the best carbon apps so they can run on the PC too.

    The more PC users use Mac apps the more people will feel comfortable switching. Ditto for Linux.

  45. Ugly by Schnapple · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Am I the only one who sees the irony in how Macintosh/Mac OS X users whine and moan when an app doesn't match the UI of the Macintosh, to the point where many developers don't think it's worth the effort, but then when Apple ports something to Windows, they keep the ugly, brushed metal, doesn't-act-like-or-match-anything-on-Windows interface?

    --

    Schnapple

  46. Re:Let me know when... by dr.badass · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple makes Safari run on Windows 2000

    Why? Is there some advantage other than the fact that you would prefer it? You gloss over this point.

    or when Safari can be installed on Gentoo.

    Konqueror on Gentoo will render the same most of the time.

    Then I'll be able to waste 10% of my time dealing with Safari's eccentricities

    What eccentricities? Complying with standards? Have you even heard of Safari before?

    I'm not upgrading Windows just because Apple says I should.

    Where exactly did Apple tell you to upgrade Windows?

    --
    Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
  47. Not a bad interpretation by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Jobs did say the web app would have access to some of the iPhone features - at the very least he mentioned activating a call, and also pulling up a google map of a location. I don't think it's meant to be low level access at all (like no Quartz access directly) but did you know Safari 3 supports SVG?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  48. Re:Quicktime is terrible, I confess by Psykechan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dear non-Mac user,

    I sincerely apologize for Quicktime on Windows. I'll admit that it is a horrible piece of coding that has made many users scream in agony when opening a .MOV file. Quicktime for Mac is only slightly better but we don't have a choice. It's as integrated into the OS as much as IE is in Windows.

    I want you to realize that I am not directly responsible for the application but I used to recommend .MOV as an alternative to people using (Win only, we mean it!) .WMA or (God help us!) .RM when those were the only choices given to us users by the majority of web outlets. It's almost like voting between a giant douche, a turd sandwich, and some other thing.

    I'm not going to apologize for iTunes for Windows. It wasn't my fault that you people went and bought iPods in droves. It's technically your fault that Apple Computer changed their name to Apple Inc. Don't go telling me that it was because you couldn't wait for the Zune.

    On the plus side, at least full screen playing of Quicktime files is going to be in Leopard without paying an additional $29. Maybe someday this amazing, new, and wonderful technological advancement could find its way over to your platform as well.

  49. Re:Ultimate server version? Family pack? by dr.badass · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm fairly certain that when I upgrade to the Ultimate version that it will cost more than $129.

    If you applied the same demented logic to Windows, the "Ultimate" version with "server niceities" would cost you...well, hell, I don't know. You try to figure it out.

    --
    Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
  50. Control-L is the new Alt-D by Foerstner · · Score: 2, Informative

    Works in IE, Firefox, Safari...L as in Location.

    Command-L on the Mac.

    --
    The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
  51. Re:Adblocking? ==SafariBlock by donstenk72 · · Score: 2, Informative

    For adblocking on Safari have a look at the free add-on SafariBlock http://fsbsoftware.com/SafariBlock.html

  52. Re:Meh by stephentyrone · · Score: 3, Informative

    Obviously companies cook their own benchmarks, so it's very possible that they chose bits of javascript which Safari handles particularly well. But they at least have acknowledged Opera as another option, and there's at least some evidence that Safari may perform better than it. It's not Apple's benchmark to cook. From the site you link to:

    Performance measured in seconds. Testing conducted by Apple in June 2007 on a 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo-based iMac system running Windows XP Professional SP2, configured with 1GB of RAM and an ATI Radeon X1600 with 128MB of VRAM. HTML and JavaScript benchmarks based on VeriTest's iBench Version 5.0 using default settings.
  53. At least clippy has not been ported to vi by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now would be truly awefull.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
  54. Re:I agree 100% by ptudor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You must have not been old enough to suffer Word/Excel 6 for the Mac. Yeah... I consider Office 98 to be a grand example of Mac integration from Microsoft, but that's from the perspective of Word 6.