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Cryptography To Frustrate Printer-Ink Piracy

Zack Melich writes with news of a new front about to open in the war printer manufacturers wage with cartridge counterfeiters, refillers, and hardware hackers. A San Francisco company, Cryptography Research Inc., is designing a crypto chip to marry cartridges to printers. There's no word so far that any printer manufacturer has committed to using it. Quoting: "The company's chips use cryptography designed to make it harder for printers to use off-brand and counterfeit cartridges. CRI plans to create a secure chip that will allow only certain ink cartridges to communicate with certain printers. CRI also said that the chip will be designed that so large portions of it will have no decipherable structure, a feature that would thwart someone attempting to reverse-engineer the chip by examining it under a microscope to determine how it works. 'You can see 95 percent of the [chip's] grid and you still don't know how it works,' said Kit Rodgers, CRI's vice president of business development. Its chip generates a separate, random code for each ink cartridge, thus requiring a would-be hacker to break every successive cartridge's code to make use of the cartridge."

66 of 305 comments (clear)

  1. Piracy? by Rix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's absurd enough when applied to simple copyright infringement, but there's absolutely nothing illegal about after market ink. In fact, these sort of shenanigans should be illegal themselves. Let the printer manufacturers compete fairly.

    1. Re:Piracy? by mrbluze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's absurd enough when applied to simple copyright infringement, but there's absolutely nothing illegal about after market ink. In fact, these sort of shenanigans should be illegal themselves. Let the printer manufacturers compete fairly.

      I doubt it will really work. The technique itself will be patented and will come at a cost to printer manufacturers to implement, whereas it will make the printers particularly unattractive to anyone on a budget.

      Everybody, even my grandma, knows that the real cost is in the consumables. People can easily make the calculation, eg: "let me see, I spend $30 more for printer Y but I get to refill, which costs me $15 less each time. Hmmm, what a tricky decision - not!"

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    2. Re:Piracy? by owlstead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I doubt it will really work. The technique itself will be patented and will come at a cost to printer manufacturers to implement, whereas it will make the printers particularly unattractive to anyone on a budget."

      That's wishfull thinking. You can easily make chips for a very small fraction of the price of these cartridges. So much so that any "piracy" that is being stamped out will mean more profit for the original manufacturer.

      Chips in mass production have two mayor cost components: design and die-size. Now I don't know how much IP overhead there will be, but rest assured that the variable costs (related to die-size) will be extremely low. Especially since some of these cardridges tend to already contain electronics.

    3. Re:Piracy? by arekq · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who said it was illegal?

      The one who use the word "piracy"!

    4. Re:Piracy? by Tunfisch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since dreaming costs no money... what about having HP, Epson, Canon and name-another join together to deliver an open standard on Ink cartdriges?

      Or have the prices sunken so badly that there is no point of return anymore to selling hardware at its price?

      --
      -- Der Tunfisch.
    5. Re:Piracy? by MindKata · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think this secure chip news is "Cryptography Research Inc" way of drumming up business. They want to sell/licence the chip to printer manufacturers.

      But I think the wider issue is, the continuing attempts to prevent 3rd party printer cartridges, shows blatant violation of antitrust laws.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitru st_law/

      Its about time legal action was taken against these companies.

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
    6. Re:Piracy? by MindKata · · Score: 2, Informative

      Doh, URL was slightly wrong... (it don't work with the last slash symbol).
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitru st_law

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
    7. Re:Piracy? by Splab · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The lose money on the printer and earn it all on cartridges. How big do you think the chances are for them to make an open standard and thus lower their income?

    8. Re:Piracy? by omfgnosis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Er, by that logic, nothing is against the law, and the only law is that of the people with guns. Fascism, fuck yeah!

    9. Re:Piracy? by NeilTheStupidHead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most of the time, the calculation usually goes more along the lines of: "I'll buy this printer on sale for $40 and instead of buying the $50 replacement refills (because usually the black and colour cartridges cost about $25 each), I'll just toss it and buy this month's $40 printer."
      And actually, I can usually pack the thing back in the box and take it down to the pawn shop and get $15-20 for it thus further offsetting the cost of replacing the printer every month.

      --
      Lose: misplace or fail || Loose: not bound together
    10. Re:Piracy? by mrbluze · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Chips in mass production have two mayor cost components: design and die-size. Now I don't know how much IP overhead there will be, but rest assured that the variable costs (related to die-size) will be extremely low. Especially since some of these cardridges tend to already contain electronics.

      Still, I can't see how companies will uniformly embrace this (unless forced to - do you see that happening anytime soon?). This is not likely to impact on current technologies, I reckon, but actually it might on new methods of printing which may be protected by patent for a time. Say Kodak had a new way of making ink not bleed once printed .. say an inkjet-based method that was superior to laser. They might claim to protect consumers by forcing them to use kodak cartriges and thereby justify this DRM.

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    11. Re:Piracy? by sdnoob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >> Please RTFA.....
      >> Who said it was illegal?

      >> They're just trying to minimize profit loss, and I don't blame them.

      well, if printer manufacturers would just sell their hardware (and consumables) at a price that reflects the actual cost to produce (each item type) there would be no lost profits.... this whole 'make the money on ink' is bullshit.

      and besides, isn't this company just wasting their time? "circumventing" restrictions in printer consumables was already ruled to not be a violation of the "it's Digital, Me Copy it Anyway" act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark_Int'l_v._Stat ic_Control_Components

    12. Re:Piracy? by UnrealisticWhample · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But I think the wider issue is, the continuing attempts to prevent 3rd party printer cartridges, shows blatant violation of antitrust laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitru st_law/ Its about time legal action was taken against these companies.
      Yup. Controlling the aftermarket ink and toner cartridges is a blatant violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

      Also, the standard practice of scaring consumers into thinking that their warranties are going to be voided by even looking at the refilled cartridges is in direct violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

      So, why are things so screwed up? HP, Lexmark, Canon and Epson have much larger legal departments than remanufacturers.
    13. Re:Piracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is the same line that we have been getting fed for ages. For example:

      "Product activation saves you money." -- Vista went up in price, even with the activation.
      "DRM on CDs drive down prices." -- CDs have gone up in price in the past decade, even adjusting for inflation.

      Every time some new DRM technology, its always touted as saving prices... never happens.

    14. Re:Piracy? by omfgnosis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wasn't actually passing judgement about the validity of the law in question, just saying that the law doesn't only count when you get caught. If it did, that would be tyranny (which isn't far off, and that's a whole other discussion, but I digress). As soon as the law is determined solely by what the people with guns say, there isn't even the pretense of freedom left.

      Of course corporations shouldn't have freedoms that people don't have. But as the laws are, piracy by corporations *is* illegal, regardless of whether they are punished for it.

    15. Re:Piracy? by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "You admit that there is a problem. And it's rather obvious that the market isn't fixing it, because this shit's been going on for years. So why do you still push the "let the market decide" line?"

      Because while I may agree that the pricing is obscene, I'm honest enough to admit that it doesn't rise to a level that I really give a crap about. Have a problem with inkject cartridges being so expensive? Do what I do - use a laser printer, and forego all the pretty colors that cost so much.

      Voila, problem solved.

      The "OMFG print cartridges can't be refilled" community is like any other tightly knit, very tightly WOUND group of nerds....pretty much nobody outside the group really cares.

      --
      -Styopa
    16. Re:Piracy? by InvalidError · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For my usage pattern, inkjet printers are one-time-use devices: since it may be weeks between print jobs, the printheads are often hopelessly clogged by the time I try to use the printer again. With disposable inkjets being a $50-a-pop proposition, my last replacement was one of those $200 (after $350 instant rebate) color laser printers I saw on liquidation last year. By now, it has certainly paid for itself a few times over and I am only about half-way through the OEM toners.

      Right now, I am wondering if I should buy a set of replacement cartridges before they go out of production or just replace the printer when its toner runs out... at the current pace, it is going to be over a year past its warranty by the time its OEM cartridges are spent anyhow.

      I hate throwing stuff out but we're really living in throw-away consumerism, this is quite a contrast to all the pro-environment face so many try to put on.

  2. Anti trust? by mrjb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this even legal?

    --
    Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
    1. Re:Anti trust? by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyway, reverse engineering for compatibility purpose is protected by law in several European countries but you know, when we try to make a law to force compatibility between devices, this is dubbed a "anti-iPod, anti-Apple" law...

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  3. hacked in 3 seconds: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Decided to buy a different printer.

    1. Re:hacked in 3 seconds: by speaker+of+the+truth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These companies can sell printers at a loss and in bulk, thus making it impossible for their smaller competitors to compete, and make up the difference in printer cartridges. Your average Joe won't look beyond the initial printer sale.

      --
      Using openSUSE instead of Windows since 9th of October, 2007 and liking it.
  4. Defective by Design by saibot834 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is Defective by Design. Don't buy this stuff

  5. misquoted by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The company's chips use cryptography designed to make it harder for customers to use off-brand and counterfeit cartridges.

    Fixed that for you.

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    1. Re:misquoted by haakondahl · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Cryptography To Frustrate Printer-Ink Competition

      Fixed that for ya.

      --
      Don't trust anyone under thirty.
  6. Restricting or Denying Consumers Choice? by jombeewoof · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds like business as usual here in the Corporate States of Amerika.
    That's like saying I can only use Dodge Brand gas in my car, and my wife could only use Toyota.

    --
    Linux Zealots: Smarter than Mac Zealots, but still zealots.
  7. Cryptography instead of Quality by haakondahl · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hope any printer manufacturer engaging in this sort of anti-competitive skullduggery is punished HARD in the marketplace. I do not want the manufacturer of anything I buy encrypting it so that I cannot use MY possession as I wish. With all due respect to the special problem of digitized Intellectual Property and other reproducibles, I do not want my car-maker to lock me into only using their strangely constructed non-interchangeable tires and wheels UNLESS as in the case of say, a Corvette or other exotic, there is a compelling QUALITY interest.

    I bought an EPSON CX 5200 and it turned out to be a lemon. There was no fix, no refund, it just sucked after about a year. It was a hundred-dollar Jackson Pollock(sp?) machine, and the reason was that the experimental ink cartridge design was crap. My printer would work just fine if the business model were not to use cheap printers to lock you into expensive ink cartridges. My printer would print, if that were the goal of the printer-makers.

    I will never buy another EPSON, and I'm glad to say so to so many people. Unless, of course, they were to come out against this encryption nonsense.

    --
    Don't trust anyone under thirty.
  8. never buy a bubble jet by timmarhy · · Score: 2, Funny

    i'll stick to my dot matrix thanks. lets seen them DRM that shit.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  9. Mod parent up by josephdrivein · · Score: 2, Funny

    The printer manufacturers that don't include this will obviously sell more.
    "Watch your competitors take suicide: priceless."

  10. Re:Ink Jet Profit Margins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It may easily be illegal:

    * It increases the amount of waste. A whole printer is price-dumped into the market, and when the ink goes out, people buy a whole new printer.

    * Waste again: Preventing cartridge refills, which is easier on the environment.

    * Anti-trust: Preventing fair competition in the marketplace of ink cartridge manufacturers.

    * Making devices Defective By Design, thus artificially restricting customer choice and creating artificial shortage. The devices are sold normally without any extra labels or warnings. Consumer-laws may have a word or two on that.

    Clearly, a company is not justified in any means in order to make a buck. Far from it. Economics theory even includes that companies should invest in local infrastructure and provide services to the community. They are part of the community, not separate from it. The more they sell their soul to Mammon, the worse they make our community. We should then revoke the privileges as a person, which the companies now enjoy.

    OTOH: Reverse-engineering might well be illegal in the USA, because of the silly DMCA in said country. Fix your laws!

  11. RIAA and Epson in the same tree by eebra82 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here we go again. "Official" printer ink is more expensive than heroin, but instead of competitive pricing, they go hand in hand with RIAA's marketing folks (read: more competition equals pricier products).

    If they had ink cartridges with aggressive pricing in the first place, people would buy the factory-made ink simply because it would sound like a safe choice. At least I would.

  12. Re:The truth isn't quite out there yet... by imsabbel · · Score: 3, Informative

    Vintage champaign? stop dreaming

    Currently, the ink of some printers is going above 10% of the price of gold per gram.

    --
    HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
  13. Re:This has been tried Before by jombeewoof · · Score: 3, Funny

    I could only imagine the results of this lawsuit were before congress openly sold laws to the highest bidder.

    see keyword openly.

    --
    Linux Zealots: Smarter than Mac Zealots, but still zealots.
  14. Details... by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 4, Informative

    * AFAIK, making wasteful products is not illegal.

    * The antitrust argument might have some merit, but I'm not sure if it is good enough to take to court.

    * Finally, I've found a case about DMCA and printer cartridges that has already be decided in court:
    http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/Lexmark_v_Static_Co ntrol/20041026_Ruling.pdf
    Here, Lexmark failed with a lawsuit against a company that reverse engineered its cartridges.

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
  15. Re:This has been tried Before by jombeewoof · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most certainly, but it seems to be almost cyclical.

    1. Corruption becomes out of control
    2. Profit!!
    3. Locals get pissed, get corruption back to acceptable levels.
    4. Locals become complacent, stop keeping their good eye on officials
    5. Corruption becomes out of control
    6. Profit!!

    I'm no genius but, I can see a slight pattern developing here.

    --
    Linux Zealots: Smarter than Mac Zealots, but still zealots.
  16. Cryptography Research Inc And Sony In Alliance by im+just+cannonfodder · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070628-cryp tography-company-develops-chip-to-lock-out-third-p arty-ink-jet-cartridges.html
    Cryptography Research Inc are also working on blu-ray BD+, the security on new blu-ray discs that will have features like:

    1: expiring discs. so the media you own will need continued licence renewals to enable you to use it.
    2: the ability for studios to remote disable drives permanently if yours or a line is found to be hacked/venerable.
    3. usage reports to the studios of your hardware, including your location and serial number used in the fight against piracy.

    http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/m ay2006/tc20060526_680075.htm
    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070620-blu- ray-content-protection-agency-certifies-bd.html

  17. The loser here? The consumer. by Kuroji · · Score: 2, Informative

    When printers are practically given away for thirty and forty dollars, yet the ink cartridges cost eighty to a hundred dollars or more, it's blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to look that it's a racket. They're merely trying to regain the stranglehold they once had before others began to manufacture compatible cartridges of comparable quality at a reasonable market price. This is why I have a laser printer. The initial cost is relatively higher but the cost of replacing cartridges, their lifespan, and the print quality is far higher.

  18. Be careful, I wil buy another NEW printer by what+about · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From the customer point of view, it is not silly, can be called wasteful, but it is economic sound

    This is what I did when the four cartridges for my laserjet 2600n did cost more than a new printer

    Really, I did buy a second printer since overall I was saving 50Euros over buying the for cartridges...

    When they run out I will buy something else (more linux compatible)

    What makes me sad is that it is quite difficult for manufactures to actually "convince" a customer that a more expensive printer with a cheaper "refill" is worthwhile.

    Maybe they should have a simple page that says "total costo over a year", where you input how many pages you plan to print and it will compare a printer against the others. This would be good for the environment, and the customers, less for sneaky companies that tends to mess up with advertising

    1. Re:Be careful, I wil buy another NEW printer by Technician · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe they should have a simple page that says "total costo over a year", where you input how many pages you plan to print and it will compare a printer against the others.

      The manufactures fudge the numbers if they are published at all. Case in point, my old HP 722c printer used a large color cartridge. They came out with a newer 950c printer. You had a choice of the half full cartridge (at the same price point as the old 722 cart) or the high capacity cart for almost double the price. They touted the new cart as a bargain because it printed oh so many more pages and at higher quality.

      I checked online... The first thing I noticed in the fine print is the comparison of apples and oranges.

      The page count for the 722c printer is based on 15% page coverage. The page count for the 950c cart is based on 5% page coverage.

      It's not that hard to adjust the 722c's page count based on using 1/3rd the ink for 5% coverage instead of 15% coverage. If I didn't pay attention to the details, I may have missed it. Needless to say, the newer 950c became a spare printer while I ran the 722c to the point the belt broke. The replacement belt is under the price of one cart for the 950c. My only problem is the color carts for the 722 are getting harder to find.

      Due to the price of ink and the reduced price of photo prints, I no longer print photos at home. The printer manufactures have priced themselves out of the market and left the market wide open for photofnishers to take the market. With all the digital cameras out there, the printer manufactures are leaving lots of ink and photo paper unsold.

      With the high cost of ink, many are very stingy with full color prints.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  19. What the hell has happened to the printer market? by QuatermassX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I really don't understand the economics and consumer dynamics around the printer market these days. Surely printer technology has reached a plateau for most normal people? Is that why some corporate madman decided to adopt a blades and razors approach to the consumer printing market? I know it's been a fixture of the corporate colour copier / printer market for a long while now ... but ... why not just charge the correct price for the printer and the consumables?

    A what the hell are people printing so damn much of that the consumables business is sooooo lucrative?

    I've never been all that into generating large reams of paper at home. For my day job, I print documentation, reports, manuscripts, etc at the office and lug it home when I want a hard copy of something I'm editing online.

    For my photography, I send files to a lab and have my images printed. I've considered printing at home - but I would expect archival inks and decent papers to be pricey. I really don't know why I'd want to keep a printer in a corner of my room waiting for those three or four colour 4x5's that I just HAVE to print then and there - and which can't wait for Apple / Kodak / Peak Imaging to deliver to my door in a couple of days. Surely iPhoto or Picasa is a hell of a lot simpler than fiddling with inkjet printers?

    When I was writing more long-form pieces, I had a Brother laser printer. Cost me $100 at the time and I could print books without running out of toner. The cartridges weren't that cheap, but it took a nice long while before I had to change them out.

    Surely it makes sense for most people just to send their photos off to be printed and to keep a cheap laser printer around for text?

  20. Re:not in the EU by steve86-ed · · Score: 2, Informative

    You should be mailing your old cartridges back to the manufacturer. It's free, easy and they recycle them. Printer cartridges disposal isn't regulated in the US because the manufactures here have been responsible so far by providing this service.

    You could also just reuse them, using off the shelf refill kits, but it's not going to be the same ink your printer prefers, so it's not going to have the same drying speed, and possible not the exact color, but in most cases, this is more than adequate.

    Btw, I see nothing in TFA that suggest this will prevent refilling.

  21. Off-topic my ass... he hit the damned nail! by macraig · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He hit the damned nail on the head, you idiot anonymous mod. How is this NOT "digital rights management"?

    This firm has designed hardware/firmware that would let printer manufacturers digitally restrict your use of their product, i.e. the printer, by preventing OEMs from making alternative cartridges and you from having choices. Isn't that rights management? If a competitor actually succeeded in creating a knockoff, you'd see a repeat of the stunt Lexmark pulled with toner cartridges: they'd sue in court under the provisions of the DMCA. In this case, this sleazebag Cryptography Research would no doubt jump in with a patent infringement suit, as well.

    It's bad enough that average people are such a complete disappointment; when I see people here mod like that, even Slashdot disappoints me.

    1. Re:Off-topic my ass... he hit the damned nail! by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2

      I thought that Digital Rights Management has a remote authentication system, where a company's remote server and a device exchanges keys and can revoke them. This system appears to be self-contained between printer and cartridge, so it's just a copy protection system.

    2. Re:Off-topic my ass... he hit the damned nail! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Digital Rights Management does not intrinsically require remote authentication: DRM is simply a technological measure intended to limit the customer's use of a product. Copy protection is just one form of DRM, and it's been around for a long time. Interestingly, HP printer drivers have already been caught phoning home (for what purpose I don't know) so it's not hard to imagine printer vendors eventually requiring remote "activation" of cartridges. Maybe they already do, for all I know. My own printer predates all this crap, which is why I'm not inclined to replace it just yet.

      Personally, I dislike software which does not require Internet access to perform its function (such as a printer driver) automatically assuming that it's ok to connect to a remote server for undisclosed activity. If I catch a program doing that, odds are it gets uninstalled and something else takes its place.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Off-topic my ass... he hit the damned nail! by noidentity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Always remember to call it Digital Restrictions Management, since that's what it actually does. In most cases the restrictions aren't there to protect anyone's right, just their greed.

  22. Stop using printers then by bl8n8r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why, for fucks sakes, does anyone need to print anything these days? Is emailing pictures not enough? Can you not just purchase a scanner? TEACH YOURSELF how to take advantage of technology and at least make it harder for this kind of crap to keep happening.

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
    1. Re:Stop using printers then by lena_10326 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why, for fucks sakes, does anyone need to print anything these days?
      I guess you don't do your own taxes with tax software. Gotta print signature forms to send to the IRS and archiving copies for the file cabinet. As you know hard drives crash and CD/DVDs oxidize. Paper copies will outlast me.

      I also needed to print copies of electronic receipts and paper billing statements to put in the 2006 tax drawer to explain all those deductions.

      I also run into hospital, insurance, rebate, and government forms needing printing, copying, signing, and snail-mailing. Just 3 weeks ago it was a passport application. Before that it was a birth certificate request form. Before that photocopying an employee contract for a new job. And then were the rebate forms for various products purchased over the year.

      Oh did I mention I was taking a night course? Needed to print several essays I wrote to hand in to the professor. Requirements: printed on 8.5x11 legal paper, double-spaced, 1 in margins, and title page. Oh. And wait until your kids start doing school reports. TONS of printed projects, papers, reports, essays, drawings, research, etc.

      There are an uncountable number of things in need of printing if you run a typical household. Running to the office or Kinkos for every print job is not feasible. I guess you're still single living in an apartment with no responsibilities?

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
  23. Nice business plan ... by haraldm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... for the "pirates". Since this is going to make "official" ink cartridges more expensive, this will firstly raise the "pirates"' revenues, making it more rewarding to produce counterfeit cartridges to begin with. Duh. Each time in history, when something was forbidden or made illegal, the criminals made more money, like during prohibition in the 30s. As soon as the prohibition was cancelled, the alcohol mafia gangs had to look for different businesses. When will people learn.

    --
    open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
  24. Re:The truth isn't quite out there yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    And you'd have to be bubbling marijuana through nanotech-quality water in a bong made out of U-235 to pay those sort of prices for printer ink.

    I guess the plan for printer makers is to a) hope that not too many of their customers notice that they don't have to pay these prices, and b) pray that some other printer maker doesn't come along and makes lots of noise pointing out that by paying an extra $40 for the printer you can save $200 on ink over the next year or two.

    Of course some companies already lock print cartridges to printers. I have a Xerox color laser printer with some sort of chip in the cartridges allows the printer to identify genuine Xerox®(TM) cartridges, and throw a screaming fit if it doesn't find one. Naturally Xerox claims this is protect you from non-genuine cartridges or something like that, but we have a pretty good idea what it's really about.

    Now in theory you could put off-brand cartridges in the printer, just like you could drink a milkshake made by shoving your hand in the blender, but the practicalities of doing so effectively deny it. Of course in the case of the Xerox printer the inconveniences you'd have to tolerate are artificial -- that is they're only present because Xerox doesn't want you cutting in on their toner revenue -- as opposed to the intrinsic pitfalls of making a milkshake out of your lower arm.

    So there you have it: owning a Xerox color laser printer is only sort of like sticking your hand in a blender.

  25. Counterfeit? by biduxe · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ok there's something I don't get. What is exactly a counterfeit cartridge. I'm in the business for ten years and I never heard of it. What I know is:

    New genuine printer manufacturer cartridge
    Refilled genuine printer manufacturer cartridge
    Other brands compatible cartridge (new or refilled)

    So I guess a counterfeit cartridge is a cartridge manufactured by some company which brand it with the name of another company for the purpose of ripping off the consumer.

    Well that's something I never saw in my career, and it is new for me, which is why from now on a will take a precautionary measure:
    Don't buy Genuine printer manufacturer cartridge as thos can be in fact counterfeit, buy instead alternative brands less likely to be counterfeit

  26. Pirate = Terrorist by FranTaylor · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Pirate" is the new inflammatory word used by tech writers these days to invoke passion and get page clicks.

    Just like "terrorist", it has a fuzzy meaning and can be abused to no end.

    I tried several times in private email to get the author of this piece to define the word "pirate", but she would not or could not.

  27. With Canon, empty != empty by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 3, Informative

    Printer Companies are getting worse at this. My Canon Laser Printer locked up because the 'toner had exceeded it's lifetime'. Note the weasel words. Quite different from being out of toner! I had been using Toner Saver mode so expected a higher page couut, but nope, after I printed the predetermined number of pages it went into lockdown and refused to print anything more. The cartridge still has toner in it, a fair bit by the sounds of it, but a smartchip detects it being reinserted. Buy a new one. Others report on the web that Canon cartridges typically have 10-20% toner in them when they "reach their lifetime."

    The message claims that continuing to use the printer would damage it. Rubbish. Remember laser printers and photo copies before the DMCA allowed this smart chip chikanery? They'd get faint, and you'd replace the toner, and all would be ok.

    Will your printer do this? It's hard to tell, because reviewers don't print enough pages to find out. This isn't declared anywhere on the advertising material. It's unethical on Canon's part, and should be illegal. But as we saw with the Sony Rootkit, big companies can break the law on a whim and not get prosecuted.

    1. Re:With Canon, empty != empty by karmatic · · Score: 2, Informative

      With HP printers, you can remove the battery, and the printer forgets about your cartridge.

      Perhaps the same is possible with a canon?

  28. Lexmark tried it by DrSkwid · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  29. Could we please drop the phrase *right now* by Qbertino · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Could we please drop the phrase 'printer-ink piracy' and the concept of whatever the f*ck it's supposed to mean right now! Thank you.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  30. Re:Ink Jet Profit Margins by tryptych · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am a graphic designer that uses a high end inkjet printer to produce prints for sale. Not all of us want laser printers. Lasers are cheap office tools, not designed for print quality. My printer uses eight cartridges, original Epson price: $25, Epson Compatible price $5. You do the math. The inkjet cartridge market always was a scam, and like any other market, the supply will fit the demand, so refills and compatibles move in. Apart from people fraudulently pirating lookalike OEM cartridges, I see no reason why quality inks cannot be sold by other companies. It ensures that the likes of HP and Epson keep their prices down.

    --
    "I like to skate on the other side of the ice"
  31. Re:This has been tried Before by tryptych · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hewlett Packard "chips a number of their cartridges. I know one major ink-refill franchise that has a device to override the electronics. Basically, it just fries the chip, and the printer doesn't recognise it has been refilled.

    --
    "I like to skate on the other side of the ice"
  32. imagine if... by e**(i+pi)-1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Imagine the gasoline type would match only your car brand. Cars would be cheap to buy but you were forced to use the manufactures gas. Thats how ridiculous the situation with the printer ink is.

  33. Lab on a chip by Makito · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not to be completely off topic, but I think the print cartridge companies would have better luck if they incorporated a "lab on chip" style spectrometer in the print head of every cartridge. That way, only the "patented ink formula" could be used in the cartridge, any other kind would signal the print head to stop. In this effect, they'd lock out all re-fillers until they could recreate the ink formula exactly which would be no small task (or cheap - their only selling point)

  34. This has already been outlawed in the US by gelfling · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Epson and Lexmark both lost class action suits brought against them for building technical blocs in thier hardware which would lock out 3rd party ink carts. And if the printer companies think they would survive a concerted effort by Indian and Chinese vendors to replace them in the home/SOHO market they are smoking the same weed that the RIAA uses. So I say let them try. They will see that market dry up.

  35. Re:Why is ink jet still around? by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 2, Informative

    Inkjet-printed photos are crap compared the the printes produced by dye-sub photo printers. The only advantage the inkjet ones might have is lower cost.

  36. HP Does this already ... by robpoe · · Score: 3, Informative

    On some of the HP Lasers we have @ the office, they have a little chip affixed to the toner cartridge. If the chip isn't there, the printer won't function. Even though the cartridge is identical to one of the lesser models, you have to have the chip or the printer will NOT function.

    Our re-filler got a bunch of chips from somewhere, but none of them worked. We found that if we pulled the chip off the old toner cartridge and put it on the new one, it worked just dandy..

    --
    = Grow a brain...
  37. Support Kodak and change the market by grapeape · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Kodak has priced their new printers a bit higher than the competition, but include the print head in the printer so cartridge costs are much lower ($10 black cartridge, $15 5-color cartridge). Yes the ink prices are still higher than they should be but they are much closer in line with reality.

  38. Recyling is Piracy? by GodWasAnAlien · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The title of the article is very wrong. Can "Piracy" be replaced with "Re-use" or Recycling?

  39. Re:Taiwanese retailers have a great solution by MrMr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sound like a ciss system...

    http://www.continuousink.com/

  40. Borat by Bluesman · · Score: 2, Funny

    I do not understand theese not joke, please to allow me to try one?

    Theese peoples who say not jokes, they are NOT cool.

    Oh, I get eet now! Bwahaha!

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
  41. When Will They Learn...? by Bellum+Aeternus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Have to create a crack for every cartridge" - Yeah, just like crackers needed to to break the encryption on DVDs, HD-DVDs, and BluRay DVDs? You just figure out the master key for all, say..., HP printers and you've "fixed" the problem. Security like this is ridiculous. If they're so worried about it, why don't they raise the price of the printers and say "buy Brand X, we have the cheapest ink around!" and then not bother with all this FUD?

    --
    - I voted for Nintendo and against Bush