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Vista is Watching You

greengrass writes "Are you using Windows Vista? Then you might as well know that the licensed operating system installed on your machine is harvesting a healthy volume of information for Microsoft. In this context, a program such as the Windows Genuine Advantage is the last of your concerns. In fact, in excess of 20 Windows Vista features and services are hard at work collecting and transmitting your personal data to the Redmond company."

100 of 458 comments (clear)

  1. Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by LoadWB · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is this another example of Bill Gate's Microsoft micromanagement leaking out into the general public, or is this truly a way for Microsoft to help fool-proof Windows operations?

    If this is nothing more than a way for Microsoft to ensure that Windows operates properly and to find potential issues, data collection should be an option. A lot of power users won't want it, and a lot of paranoid public won't either.

    Of course, what choice do they have if they want/need to run Windows? If enough of the system monitors your usage and activity, not using those services pretty much makes your computer a brick.

    Aside from privacy concerns, how much storage space and processing power is being used for this endeavor? Couldn't all that be put to much better use?

    1. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by Necreia · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Aside from privacy concerns, how much storage space and processing power is being used for this endeavor? Couldn't all that be put to much better use?"

      Of course, Aero.

    2. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by brunascle · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Of course, what choice do they have if they want/need to run Windows? If enough of the system monitors your usage and activity, not using those services pretty much makes your computer a brick.
      if the OS can function without an internet connection, it damn well better be able to function on a firewall that blocks access to MS servers.
    3. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by LoadWB · · Score: 4, Insightful

      heheh Until the first update to Vista which requires that the information be dumped. It appears that Microsoft is slowly trying to head towards a near-constant connection of the end-user to their system, for what purposes is a matter for conjecture. And might this be precursor to a subscription-based OS?

      Microsoft is stepping over some big lines here.

      Something else comes to mind... what about users still on dial-up? Won't the transmission of this user information completely clog the line?

    4. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 4, Funny

      It should be interesting how this clashes with China's own obsessive need to control people's PCs. I can see it now at Redmond, thousands of Vista inquiries being returned "Nothing to see here, move along."

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    5. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by B'Trey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it damn well better be able to function on a firewall that blocks access to MS servers.

      Has anyone done any network captures to see what sites are being contacted? Is blocking *.microsoft.com sufficient? Is there a list of IPs that can be blocked?

      --

      "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    6. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by KenRH · · Score: 2, Informative

      It should be interesting how this clashes with China's own obsessive need to control people's PCs.

      Kina as many other Asian nations is moving towards Linux. They don't want to pay M$-tax and they espesialy don't want MS or NSA spying on them.

    7. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about people who pay for bandwidth usage?
      Would you be able to charge microsoft for the bandwidth used by this unwanted feature?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    8. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by click2005 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In XP, Microsoft hard coded the IP addresses of various servers into libraries and software so it bypasses any attempt to use DNS resolution to block it. I'd bet in Vista there is something worse. Maybe thats why they were working on some kind of BitTorrent/P2P protocol. Route the data through other people's machines to get around blocking.

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    9. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by Darkinspiration · · Score: 2

      yes it's called an external firewall, packet filtering and a proxy. Seriously basic network security is about blocking what you don't want/need and allowing what you do. I hope the NSA and all are aware of that fact.

    10. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by Dan+Ost · · Score: 2, Informative

      Such traffic can always be blocked at an external firewall. Even the most basic router will let you blacklist IPs/domains. Short of colluding with router makers, there is nothing Microsoft can do about this.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    11. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by lessermilton · · Score: 2, Informative

      Rather than using DNS - put a *nix box between your XP and M$ - voila, instant access, and I'm sure there are plenty of packet sniffers out there...

      --
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    12. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by B'Trey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some sort of attempt but, to the best of my knowledge, there's no way for Microsoft to bypass the access list on a router or firewall sitting between the machine and the Internet. But I also wouldn't be surprised if, if one IP can't get through, the machine will try several others, including ones that aren't assigned to the microsoft.com domain. Thus my asking if anyone had done any network captures to see where the packets are actually going. I'm not running Vista, so I can't do it myself.

      --

      "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    13. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Considering you indirectly agreed to it all in the EULA, i doubt it.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    14. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

      The point being made earlier in the thread was that this doesn't always work, because the IP addresses for certain services (Windows Update is one, IIRC) are hard-coded and the hosts file is never checked by Windows when resolving these addresses.

      --
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    15. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by sucati · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think this is the idea behind dual core: 1 core belong to microsoft, 1 core for you

    16. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by wellingj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Application yes.... Operating System...?
      I'd draw the line right there...

      If MS actually asked "do you want to use the net to get feature x, y or z?"
      I might bite on that as ok... but who knows what kind of information they are gathering.
      But if I had bought Vista I would demand to know what I paid for and why MS thinks it is.
      so damned important they not tell their customers...

    17. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by TheLinuxSRC · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Go to the American Registry for Internet Numbers and search for "Microsoft". You will see pages similar to the following:

      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT (NET-131-107-0-0-1) 131.107.0.0 - 131.107.255.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-VEXCEL (NET-192-92-90-0-1) 192.92.90.0 - 192.92.90.255
      Microsoft Corp NETBLK-MSOFT-NET (NET-198-105-232-0-1) 198.105.232.0 - 198.105.235.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-1 (NET-199-103-90-0-1) 199.103.90.0 - 199.103.91.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-CORP-MSN-3 (NET-199-103-122-0-1) 199.103.122.0 - 199.103.122.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT17 (NET-199-6-92-0-1) 199.6.92.0 - 199.6.94.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-2 (NET-204-79-7-0-1) 204.79.7.0 - 204.79.7.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-NET1 (NET-204-79-27-0-1) 204.79.27.0 - 204.79.27.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-CORP-MSN-1 (NET-199-60-28-0-1) 199.60.28.0 - 199.60.28.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT2 (NET-198-180-74-0-1) 198.180.74.0 - 198.180.75.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT3 (NET-198-180-95-0-1) 198.180.95.0 - 198.180.97.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT8 (NET-204-79-101-0-1) 204.79.101.0 - 204.79.101.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-HK (NET-204-79-135-0-1) 204.79.135.0 - 204.79.135.255
      Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-PLACEWARE-1 (NET-204-79-179-0-1) 204.79.179.0 - 204.79.179.255

      Now, just simply block *all* access to those IPs. Of course... there goes your automatic updates as well.
    18. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by geobeck · · Score: 5, Funny

      1 core belong to microsoft, 1 core for you

      No. All your core are belong to us.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    19. Re:Egomanical monitoring of the populace? by WilliamSChips · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If Microsoft wanted to spy on you they could easily get an IP that isn't Microsoft. Besides, do you really trust your host file on a Microsoft system? They're known for bypassing it specifically for that kind of stuff.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  2. No, it isn't. by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't have nearly enough ram.

    --
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    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:No, it isn't. by FredDC · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just put a tin foil hat over your computer!

      --
      09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63
  3. If only they told me, by sumi-manga · · Score: 2, Interesting

    like Google does, maybe I wouldn't be microwaving genuine Vista Ultimate DVDs into petrol...

  4. Notice how it's not "My Computer" anymore? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hear the icon on the desktop isn't called My Computer anymore, it's now just "Computer". I guess in the fine print it says "BillG's Computer".

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    1. Re:Notice how it's not "My Computer" anymore? by kendoran · · Score: 3, Funny

      With the new vista tech, it definitely doesn't ACT like my computer anymore.

  5. Ah! The irony! by c0l0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In the article, there's a Vista technology referred to as "Rights Management Services (RMS) Client" - I guess I'm not the only one who's midldy amused about the acronym used for that service ;-)
    What's especially delicate about it is that the service's name uses the term "Rights", where many who are in favour of digital freedom would probably deem "Restrictions" a much better fit.

    I bet if Richard Stallman were dead by now (please note that I'm glad and happy that he's alive and kickin'!), there'd be a chance he'd be rotating in his grave at high speeds because of this.

    --
    :%s/Open Source/Free Software/g

    YTARY!
    1. Re:Ah! The irony! by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Funny

      If I promise to manage my rights, can I disable this system?

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    2. Re:Ah! The irony! by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Funny

      I bet if Richard Stallman were dead by now (please note that I'm glad and happy that he's alive and kickin'!), there'd be a chance he'd be rotating in his grave at high speeds because of this.

      Then, we could hook his body to a generator. So, everytime something like this happened, we could say "at least we just cut down on greenhouse emissions."

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    3. Re:Ah! The irony! by digitig · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps there's hope, and RMS can sue MSFT for the illegal infringement of his initials. Prior use (unfortunately). RMS stood for "Root Mean Square" before Richard Stallman was a package in his father's installation manager.
      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  6. I work in an FDA-regulated environment,... by Yewbert · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... and this kind of undisclosed(?) sneaky communication has to be considered a security risk from our side, and one which may very possibly invalidate the state of validation (in, again, the FDA-regulated sense) of numerous production-related systems that might eventually run on Vista platforms. We're testing Vista now, and as soon as I get my hands on a copy, I'm gonna poke arounnd and try to figure out what data is sent where, what happens if you cleverly block it, what options there are to just shut these features the f*** off, and many et ceteras,...

    1. Re:I work in an FDA-regulated environment,... by dave420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's fully-disclosed and hardly sneaky. If you block it, it will still work fine, but you lose updates to Windows and its components, you won't get your DRM certificates for media it's introduced to, your IPv6 NAT service won't work as expected, and online help features stop working. Want to stop them? Firewall rules, or disable the services.

      Everything has to be considered a security risk from your position, otherwise you're not doing your job :)

  7. Vista's biggest enemy by drgonzo59 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Vista's biggest enemy is not Linux -- it's Vista. Americans take their privacy too seriously to ignore this if this becomes public. Of course, one could argue that by now the 'war on terror' has taught us to just bend over when the government says so, but hopefully, the reaction will be a little bit more violent when Microsoft asks us to 'submit'....who knows.

    1. Re:Vista's biggest enemy by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Americans take their privacy too seriously to ignore this if this becomes public. Either you're not American or you don't pay attention to the news. Most Americans have been FUD'ded into ignoring privacy concerns.
    2. Re:Vista's biggest enemy by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was all for protecting my privacy until they offered me a free copy of "Minesweeper 3D" and "The Best of American Idol" audio tracks!

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    3. Re:Vista's biggest enemy by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Americans take their privacy too seriously to ignore this if this becomes public

      You mean, you wish they wouldn't ignore this?

      "OMG! Vista violates my privacy!"
      "So what are you going to do about it?"
      "I'm going to use a different operating system!"
      "Which one?"
      "Well, uh, the other one."
      "Which other one."
      "Like, the other Windows."
      "Which other Windows?"
      "Um, I guess ... XP, is it?"
      "Do you know how to install an operating system?"
      "Well, no ... I mean, I just won't buy computers with Vista."
      "And where do you buy a computer without Vista?"
      "Um ... I can just choose XP when I order one."
      "And when XP is discontinued?"
      "Then I'll get a completely different operating system, from a different company."
      "You mean a Mac?"
      "Oh, heavens no."
      "Then what?"
      "Um ..."

    4. Re:Vista's biggest enemy by apathy+maybe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Americans take their privacy seriously? Since when as the average yank done that?

      Sure you have some folk who do, but considering the supermarket "loyalty cards" (and it isn't just in the US of course), the various voting things (e.g. who's the hottest "singer"?), using plastic cards to pay for everything and so on...

      Meh, I'm sure you get my point, which is that only some people (around the world), take their privacy as seriously as you seem to think.

      --
      I wank in the shower.
    5. Re:Vista's biggest enemy by Intron · · Score: 2, Funny

      You can use the same name that I use when I have to fill out a form to return something or get a "loyalty" card: Moe Delaun. The funniest part is that since I use my actual address, I now get junk mail addressed to Mr. Delaun. I should try checking my credit score.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    6. Re:Vista's biggest enemy by Jack+Sombra · · Score: 2, Insightful


      "Americans take their privacy too seriously to ignore this if this becomes public. "
      Sorry but WHAT????

      Americans probably have the lowest privacy concerns of any modern first world country

      You have no real laws that protect your data being sold without your knowledge

      No real penalties for mishandling (aka losing) peoples personal data

      People buy from their local shops and supermarkets and give hand over details like their tel number/address to the shop assistants without question (and for those who have not been to the US not talking "loyalty cards" here which are bad enough, mean "What's you telephone number Sir?", first time I encountered that I was like "WTF?!?!?" and when I refused they did not know what to do because no one had ever refused before and they did not know how to bypass that point on the till to close the sale)

      Hell your data protection laws are so weak they had to change European law to create an exclusion for the transmission of airline passenger info to the FBI because otherwise virtually no personal information about people in the EU is allowed to be transmitted to the US unless already connected with a crime because the rest of the view the US laws as a joke

      The average American could not give a toss about their privacy

    7. Re:Vista's biggest enemy by Omaze · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He feels (rightly) that it doesn't really matter if he leaves a paper trail Most base animals figured out, thousands of years ago, that leaving a trail is a careful balance between marking territory and attracting predators.

      There are wealthy and powerful predators in both government and private industry.

      But you can keep your head in the sand. The herd of idiots won't notice when the wolves pick you.

      Just because you don't know, can't even imagine, don't have the intellect required to figure out, how predators are exploiting you doesn't mean it isn't happening. Maybe you think that society is all love and roses and nobody would ever exploit their fellow man. Don't let ten thousand years of history or reality enlighten you.
      --
      The government itself is not stealing your liberties. Their new programs are enabling criminals who will.
  8. Anonymous? by MontyApollo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seems like they would want to keep this data anonymous as much as possible too, or it would seem like they would have an endless barage of subpoenas for civil lawsuits like divorces, where one spouse wants evidence that the other was cheating.

  9. Have we learned nothing? by kebes · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The privacy concerns are obvious. I, for one, do not want to agree to having all kinds of (largely unspecified) information transmitted to Microsoft.

    But even putting that aside for a moment. Assume that Microsoft is a friendly company and that you are confident they will never use this information "against you." Even in that case, this is a really bad idea. Why? Because security works best when you *minimize* the avenues of attack. By sending this information to Microsoft HQ, your OS opens itself to new attacks. On the one hand you have the possibility of MS's servers being hacked, and your information stolen (or the transmission being intercepted and copied). But much worse, this transmission functionality can be co-opted by malware or viruses.

    Every functionality you include in the OS is a functionality that "the enemy" (malware, viruses, crackers, etc.) can (and will) use against you. In particular, every network-enabled program is a potential security breach. Hence, we should always be disabling as many services (especially network services) as possible. By having all kinds of code that is constantly communicating outside the machine (with no notification to the user), built into services that the user cannot sensibly disable, you are leaving a tempting target for "the enemy" to find vulnerabilities.

    Add to this the fact that it makes it harder on network admins to pick out suspicious traffic. If all these Vista installs are constantly sending out packets of information, how can the sysadmin tell when one of those machines has been taken over, and that "phone MS HQ" service is now sending nefarious packets?

  10. Get used to it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Face it, the advent of the internet has brought to the world many great and wonderous things. However, there is a dark side to connectivity, and it's name is, connectivity. If you want to be part of the whole, you have to accept the inherit lose of privacy that is associated with it. Doesn't matter how much you dislike it, but as a whole EVERYTHING is becoming more connected, you can't truly expect your privacy to somehow remain immune from all this "openness".

    Those who thrive in this environment (and in this case, thrive means are able to navigate it with the majority of their private information private) will be those who understand, accept, and deal with it.

  11. Re:Tagged as paranoia? by jonnythan · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's a little OT, but truth is an absolute defense to slander. Slander is, by definition, untrue.

  12. Don't worry, it's not Vista... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's just: Windows Update, Web Content, Digital Certificates, Auto Root Update, Windows Media Digital Rights Management, Windows Media Player, Malicious Software Removal/Clean On Upgrade, Network Connectivity Status Icon, Windows Time Service, and the IPv6 Network Address Translation (NAT) Traversal service (Teredo).

    See, typical /. overreaction

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    1. Re:Don't worry, it's not Vista... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry, I left out: Activation, Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP), Device Manager, Driver Protection, Dynamic Update, Event Viewer, File Association Web Service, Games Folder, Error Reporting for Handwriting Recognition, Input Method Editor (IME), Installation Improvement Program, Internet Printing, Network Awareness (somewhat), Parental Controls, Peer Name Resolution Service, Plug and Play, Plug and Play Extensions, Program Compatibility Assistant, Program PropertiesCompatibility Tab, Program Compatibility Wizard, Properties, Registration, Windows Control Panel, Windows Help, Windows Mail (only with Windows Live Mail, Hotmail, or MSN Mail), Windows Problem Reporting, Windows Defender, Support Services, and Internet Explorer 7.

      "This extensive enumeration is not a complete illustration of all the sources in Windows Vista that Microsoft uses to gather end user data"

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    2. Re:Don't worry, it's not Vista... by LordEd · · Score: 2, Informative
      Sarcastic Microsoft bash aside, all of the listed services are those that require connection to an external source. The "windows time service" makes me a bit suspicious that the author just picked everything that made any form of network communication without regard to information sent/received.

      On Windows time service:

      The following list describes various aspects of Windows Time Service data that is sent to and from the Internet and how the exchange of information takes place:

        Port: NTP uses User Datagram Protocol (UDP) port 123 on time servers. If this port is not open to the Internet, you cannot synchronize your server to Internet NTP servers.

        Protocol: The service on Windows Vista implements NTP to communicate with other computers on the network.


      The NTP Protocol is described here. I can't verify that they haven't implemented the evil NTP protocol (not running Vista), but I don't see why i should trust the author after listing this one.
    3. Re:Don't worry, it's not Vista... by plague3106 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Exactly. Its a blanket catch all so that they have their asses covered. Each of those features sends certain amounts of data to performs its function.

      For those wondering why the Games folder sends data, its to get the rating for the game and download additional information about the game (like the box art). There are many personalization features in Vista, and they're actually pretty cool.

  13. Negro, puhleeese by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft will get your "Internet protocol address, the type of operating system, browser and name and version of the software you are using, and the language code of the device where you installed the software." But all they really need is your IP address.
    Huh, I thought I supplied that information to every website I visit.

    Every time you install a Plug and Play device, you tell Microsoft about it in order to get the necessary device drivers. The same is the case for PnP-X enabled device, only that Windows Update is more actively involved in this case.
    Oh noes!!! They need to know my device to supply the driver?

    Good grief, I hate Microsoft as much or more than the average Slashdotter, but most of TFA is just alarmist FUD.
    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  14. Is Vista a product, or a service? by Morgaine · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I expect that the majority of people believe that they're buying a product when they purchase Vista, or when they purchase a PC with Vista pre-installed. That presumption may be entirely wrong though.

    Certainly from Microsoft's point of view, and in view of their total focus on WGA, you've agreed to a single-payment licensing deal. EULAs may not be valid in some jurisdictions, but that doesn't seem to concern them. You live within their worldview, or else ... or else nothing, that's the only option. In fact then, you haven't purchased a product at all, but a service without any agreed terms.

    Likewise, from the content providers' point of view, your PC and its software certainly doesn't belong to you, which implies that you haven't purchased Vista as a product. Instead, it's just a delivery vehicle for their content, and Microsoft is the guarantor of DRM safety to ensure that this is so. The fact that you've paid for your hardware and software as if it were yours seems to have escaped both content providers and Microsoft alike.

    Perhaps in the future, people who are not technical will not own computers at all, but only rent content delivery vehicles?

    That's where Vista seems to be heading ... although Microsoft probably wants you to continue purchasing without owning.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
  15. The core question remains by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why don't they tell you? Every halfway serious program I use that has to report information home (or at least wants to, for statistical purposes) asks me first, or at least informs me that it is going to do that now. Some programs even tell you what exactly they're going to send (and, behold, checking source and the transfered data shows that they actually tell you the truth).

    Usually I don't mind. They probably sell that information (not about me, but about their "user base") to someone to make some money that way, since I don't pay for the honor to use their program for free. No problems there.

    A problem arises when said data is transmitted without my consent. Without me even knowing that it is being sent. Am I supposed to trust a company that it isn't going to do shady business with my data when they're sneaky about it?

    Now, I'm not saying MS does. But, seriously, why the cloak-and-dagger approach? Just tell the user "Vista is now gonna send MS the following information about your system, anonymized so it can't be tracked, and we want it to see what hardware platforms our system should run best on. Thanks for your co-op."

    What's wrong about that? If someone doesn't care, heck, one more click on "accept" isn't going to be even noticed in Vista. And if someone does care, the smell of fish is not gonna hit his nose when something like this is being exposed.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:The core question remains by weicco · · Score: 2, Informative

      But, seriously, why the cloak-and-dagger approach? Just tell the user "Vista is now gonna send MS the following information about your system, anonymized so it can't be tracked, and we want it to see what hardware platforms our system should run best on. Thanks for your co-op."

      Well how about reading Windows Update Privacy Statement from here http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver/en/lib rary/3998fef5-4e07-4128-881d-754375b679121033.mspx ?mfr=true or updated version from Windows Update site from here http://www.update.microsoft.com/microsoftupdate/v6 /default.aspx?ln=en-us. And if you are paranoid enough, just add TCP dump to somewhere on your network to see what's really submitted, don't know if it's encrypted though.

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
  16. Article Breakdown by thePsychologist · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This article is a lot of FUD. But there's lots of truth in it too. Even though some of this transmission of data is optional and can be turned off, it still goes too far because most average computer users don't know about this stuff. Hence it's taking advantage of people without their knowledge.

    hardware hash, which is a non-unique number generated from the computer's hardware configuration but no personal information.

    This is not good. Probably only used to invalidate your copy of Windows once you change the motherboard.

    The Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP) is optional, and designed to improve software quality.

    This service asks your consent, and is okay and OPTIONAL.

    Via the Device Manager, Microsoft has access to all the information related to your system configuration in order to provide the adequate drivers.

    Again: if a device is plugged in, a dialog first comes up and asks the user if he/she wants to search the internet for a driver. And the service NEEDS the name of the device to search for one.

    Similarly, Dynamic Update offers your computer's hardware info to Microsoft for compatible drivers.

    That's because you ASK for it. Similarly if I Google a problem, Google gets my search query. But they're collecting stats on hardware, and that's pretty normal for an OS company. After all, it'll help them build a better OS (not likely though).

    Event Viewer data is collected every time the users access the Event Log Online Help link. By using the File Association Web Service, Microsoft will receive a list with the file name extensions.

    Just the extensions?? Big deal. Here's a partial list for my computer: *.raw, *.mov,...wait, this person has some Apple format on their computer...DESTROY. Can they use this information to help with vendor lock-in? Maybe.

    Metadata related to the games that you have installed in Vista also finds its way to Microsoft.

    Maybe this is going a bit off the deep end. What I install is my business and not theirs.

    The Error Reporting for Handwriting Recognition will only report to Microsoft if the user expressly desires it to.

    This asks your consent, and is okay and OPTIONAL. Why are they even including this in this article?

    Through IME Word Registration, Microsoft will receive Word registration reports. Users have to choose to participate in the Installation Improvement Program before any data is sent over at Microsof[t].

    This asks your consent, and is okay and OPTIONAL. So, if you register, it receives the data. No surprise there.

    Ever used a print server hosted by Microsoft? Then the company collected your data through Internet Printing. Network Awareness is in a league of its own. It does not premeditatedly store of send directly information to Microsoft, but it makes data available to other services involving network connectivity, and that do access the Redmond company.

    Makes data available to services that contact Microsoft does not mean this data will be SENT to Microsoft. FUD.

    Via Parental Controls, not only you but also Microsoft will monitor all the visited URLs of your offspring.

    If this is actually true, then it's too far. Direct monitoring of the sites!

    Hashes of your Peer Name tied to your IP address are published and periodically refreshed on a Microsoft server, courtesy of the Peer Name Resolution Service.

    Too far. But I'm not sure what a Peer Name is now. And I doubt it's very useful.

    Every time you install a Plug and Play device, you tell Microsoft about it in order to get the necessary device drivers. The same is the case

    --
    "What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
  17. Re:Devil's Advocate by kebes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well they say the information is anonymous, but it includes things like your IP address. So they can convert that it non-anonymous information quite easily.

    So... some reasons why this is probably a bad idea:
    1. If they discover that you are running non-legit software, they can track you down. (And considering that any such analysis will always make mistakes, even users of legitimate copies of software should be worried.)
    2. If MS's servers get compromised (or a bug is found in the "secure transmission" protocol), third parties can obtain your data. Depending on exactly what is being sent, this could be a privacy breach, security breach, or both.
    3. Having services constantly establishing these connections is a security risk. Malware or viruses may be able to exploit it as a point of infection. Or, they may be able to use it as a means of spreading copies of themselves, or secretly transmitting information back to a third party. Every unnecessary service (from a user perspective) is a security breach waiting to happen.
    4. Having code running that doesn't explicitly benefit the user is a waste of resources. This means overhead on your computer and overhead on your internet connection.
    5. The EULA seems to state that they can change the terms as it suits them. This means that they can push updates through Windows Update that increase the scope of the data obtained. Perhaps they eventually decide to drop the anonymous clause. I don't think signing over so much freedom and privacy is a good idea, regardless of how "well-intentioned" the recipient of your rights claims to be.

    And finally, there is the general "bad vibes" I'm sure we're all getting about this. It would be one thing if it were an additional feature that you could turn on if you wanted to. Something like "Help MS improve the quality of service by sending reports on how your software is running. This voluntary service is under your control, and only human-readable summaries will be sent, which you can inspect before they are sent. Do you wish to participate? Cancel/Allow"

    Instead we get something like: "MS reserves the right to monitor your computer and transmit information to MS HQ. We can change these terms at our leisure. By using any of these features, you implicitly agree to this monitoring."

    This is not an act of charity on MS's part. This is part of a plan to obtain information that they want, without customers noticing it is happening. That can only be a bad thing.

  18. The tone of TFA/S isn't what it should be by sid0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The things that get transmitted are:
    1. Activation info. Well, duh.
    2. Windows Update. -do-
    3. Auto Root Update. Updates the list of trusted certificate authorities. You know, Verisign etc.
    4. Windows Media DRM. Not an issue if you don't use DRM files, and no, information isn't transmitted every time you play the song.
    5. Windows Media Player. To download album art/track names. Again, no different from other players. Easy to disable completely.
    6. Malicious Software Removal. What's the problem if info is transmitted to Microsoft that you had an infection and it was cleaned? Non-issue. You can choose not to use it at all.
    7. Network Connectivity Status Icon. This doesn't TRANSMIT anything except the HTTP request. It just downloads a small page to check if the Internet connection is working. Easy to disable, no problem.
    8. Windows Time Service. Syncs time. Again, what's the problem? It's easy to disable if you really have a problem.
    9. Problem reports. It asks you very clearly if data is to be sent to Microsoft, and asks you again if you want to send personal data. And reporting problems is good.
    10. Games. Come on, it downloads fucking info and covers.
    11. Event Viewer. Data is sent only when you specifically REQUEST for more online help. http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/libr ary/28cd5e13-e955-4941-91d9-fec2525e96c71033.mspx? mfr=true
    12. Customer Experience Improvement Program. Microsoft *SPECIFICALLY ASKS YOU* if you want to opt-in. Once you say no, it never asks you again.

    - etc -

    The paranoia claims are really ridiculous. The operating system uses Internet resources to improve your experience, like telling you when you are connected to the Internet. Please take your tinfoil hat off for a minute and look at this objectively.

  19. Re:Nothing new by PhysicsPhil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    X-ray machines, Jet engines, and more all report operating conditions and usage information back to the manufacturer. Microsoft is doing this anonymously to improve the products. I have no problem with this. They aren't sending back any "personal information" like credit card numbers or even identification information.

    There are plenty of reasons you still don't want this happening. Consider...the war on terror continues and somebody gets caught up in the Feds dragnet. They press charges, but don't quite have the evidence they need. The defendant's lawyer (and the ACLU) is probably going to get him to walk unless they can find something. Little known to all, the President (or these days, the VP) issues a secret Executive Order that strips "terror suspects" of the right to attorney-client privilege. The Feds show up at Microsoft's door with several court orders. They order the tracking of the suspect, and they provide the IP addresses of computer in the offices of the defendant's attorney and the ACLU and demand that Microsoft install a backdoor patch to download documents off that computer. Of course the download will be indiscriminate...maybe this lawyer will also have you as a client, and your files will go to the Feds also.

    Far-fetched? Perhaps, but certainly plausible. Suppose it's not the American government, but the Chinese looking for a few journalists or Falun Gong members. Still far-fetched? Which way do you think Microsoft will go when the choice is a few journalists in prison or losing access to the Chinese market?

    Privacy is always good.

  20. This is my single biggest push to free software by maillemaker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >It appears that Microsoft is slowly trying to head towards a near-constant connection of the end-user to their system, for what purposes is a matter for conjecture.

    And it's not just Microsoft doing it.

    This "phone home" crap is the single biggest thing that is driving me to consider open-source alternative operating systems and software.

    The second biggest thing is that it seems more and more that with commercial software every time I install an "upgrade" it is really an upgrade for the /author/ of the software, not the user - more DRM, more restrictions on how I can use the software, instead of better software for /me/. It's seriously getting to where I don't trust commercial upgrades anymore. It seems like 90% of the time or better a commercial upgrade limits what I can do with the application instead of enhances it.

    It's really all come down to games for me. If my games would all run on Linux I'd be there tomorrow.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    1. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by kryten_nl · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://games.cedega.com/gamesdb/ check it out, add it as a bookmark.

      --
      For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
    2. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by brunascle · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's really all come down to games for me. If my games would all run on Linux I'd be there tomorrow.
      this is the reason my desktop is still XP also. it's become not much more than a gaming console. but you'd be surprised how many good, native linux games there are. i was (recently). check out the linux gamers live cd.
    3. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by hackstraw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's really all come down to games for me. If my games would all run on Linux I'd be there tomorrow.

      All I can say is I'm glad I don't have anything important like games to dictate what OS I use. Yes, in some respects I'm being a troll/sarcastic here, but also games appear to be _the_ driving force for technical people here on slashdot to tie them to Windows. Other less technical users simply don't know any better.

      Maybe I'm just an eletist or whatever, but I simply don't need the headaches that come with Windows. I had a couple of crappy jobs back in the 1999-2000 era that required Windows, but other than that I've been Windows free since 1997 or so both personally and professionally.

      To me, the OS is just software. Just like I have a choice in shells, window managers, desktop environments, web servers, whatever. For many reasons, technical, stylish, reliability, ease of use, ease of maintenance, etc, I simply can't find a reason to use Windows.

      If games were that important to me, I would buy a console, or two or three.

    4. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This "phone home" crap is the single biggest thing that is driving me to consider open-source alternative operating systems and software.


      Phone home is DRIVING you? To CONSIDER open-source? And you are considering these as ALTERNATIVEs? Sounds to me like you are squarely locked up in proprietary land, and that, generally, you like it there. But you need to fit in around here, so you use words like "crap" to add weight to your otherwise meaningless stanzas.

      Put your money where your mouth is. If you like the open stuff, use it. Otherwise, you're just so much hot air, and heated air comes rather cheap around here.

      And here's a great example: It's really all come down to games for me. If my games would all run on Linux I'd be there tomorrow.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    5. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by farmer11 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sure. But Open Source software is not going to uphold your freedoms, only Free Software will. Any freedoms that Open Source software gives you is just incidental to the development methodology used. They will be the first to go when sacrificed for some technical merit.

      Here's an amusing quote by RMS about Free Softare and Open Source from here,

      The GNU GPL is used by developers with various views, but it was written to serve the ethical goals of the free software movement. Says Stallman, "The GNU GPL makes sense in terms of its purpose: freedom and social solidarity. Trying to understand it in terms of the goals and values of open source is like trying understand a CD drive's retractable drawer as a cupholder. You can use it for that, but that is not what it was designed for."
    6. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Kamokazi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is the console gaming experience is very different and generally considered quite inferior by those who prefer PC games. This is due to numerous reasons, but mostly:

      1) Multiplayer games and game modes (consoles are finally starting to catch up)
      2) Modability and expandability of the titles
      3) Better graphics (if you're willing to plunk down the cash for the hardware)
      4) Unique and indie titles

      Now most PC games can be played on Linux through a DirectX emulator, however there is almost always a performance hit, and often it's as bad as half your framerate going down the drain...the games are just heavily optimized for Windows (most Mac games are the same way...~20% performance hit on the same machine if you use OSX instead of bootcamping into Windows).

      What's become worse is that MS is now requiring Vista for some games...games that don't even require the newer DirectX 10...I've had to make my gaming PC dual-boot into Vista now just for Shadowrun. Halo 2 'requires' Vista as well...and it has awful Xbox 1 graphics...it sure as hell doesn't need Vista to run properly. And what's worse is Vista will make most games suffer 10%+ performance hits as well (hence the dual booting).

      Bottom line...serious PC Gamers are stuck with Windows.

      --
      As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
    7. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Ephemeriis · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This "phone home" crap is the single biggest thing that is driving me to consider open-source alternative operating systems and software.
      I got sent out on a call last week... Their complaint was that the PC was running fairly slow and that it kept asking to connect to the Internet (yes, the poor souls were still on dial-up). I honestly expected to find an assortment of spyware/malware on the machine. Instead, I found a pile of legitimate software was trying to phone home.

      Just about any HP camera/printer/scanner will install an update utility. Java has a updater that runs in the background. Real Player, Adobe Reader, Flash Player, Quicktime, and assorted Sonic software all have their own background updaters.
      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    8. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow.. an AC troll. How original.

      Linux elitism.. yeah that's not overplayed. If you truly feel that way then you're not only stupid, you're pathetic.
      Not only Linux this time, but "Computers are not toys!" Apparently the master of computers telling everyone how to use them. 0/10 points for effort. As if there are only so many computers in the world, and gaming is stealing the megahertz from the important calculations. I'd tell you to get help.. but it must be fun in your mom's basement.

    9. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm about to put together a new PC. I fully expect to dual-boot between XP (not Vista) and some flavour of Linux. As with others here, games are the major reason for installing XP at all, with multimedia support a close second. So, I went along to that page with great interest.

      Unfortunately, all it tells me is that pretty much every game I want to play on the new machine is completely unplayable under Cedega. As with so much of Linux history, the answer seems to be "it's making progress, but it's just not good enough yet".

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    10. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The genre of game is more the deciding factor for me. Some genres, such as first-person shooters, convert very well to consoles, and indeed many of the best recent titles in this genre have started out or remained exclusively on one console or another. However, many genres naturally have an interface that is too complicated for your average console games platform. Can you imagine controlling a complex real-time strategy title like Supreme Commander via a little handheld unit with a few twiddly things and pushy bits on it? How about a role-playing game where you need to give detailed orders to many party members with many specific abilities?

      Incidentally, the Microsoft "Vista-only" games have already been cracked, and apparently operate just fine on XP. It's just a PR stunt, which is probably why (as I've argued before) no-one except Microsoft is making Vista-only titles, or even prioritising Vista for games development. The gamer market isn't as stupid as Microsoft seems to think, and the reviews of Vista as a gaming platform are slating it on both compatibility and performance grounds. That means gamers aren't upgrading, and the developers in such a high-pressure business are always going to follow the market.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    11. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by frizop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >> Some genres, such as first-person shooters, convert very well to consoles, Did I miss something here? FPS are the reason most of us have stuck to PC gaming.

    12. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Informative

      HP drivers are pathetic. The printer driver for my printer is a 600mb minimum install (the 'enhanced' software is another 500mb). Every 3 or 4 minutes a console window flashes on the screen - their phone home software is a console app and they haven't even bothered to hide the window.

      Oh and that's just for the printer.. the scanner part of the driver is nonfunctional on vista (despite the driver being the latest vista driver), and the whole thing won't install on OSX (a small (for them) 250mb driver) because they stopped supporting it after 10.4.2 and it's hardcoded to reject a version higher than that.

      For a while now I've been telling people to avoid HP like the plague because their drivers are is spyware infested bug ridden crap.

    13. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by McDutchie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bottom line...serious PC Gamers are stuck with Windows....NOT!!!!! Simply set up a dual-boot system, and only boot into windows to play games and use Linux to go online and do anything else but your games.

      In other words, serious PC gamers are stuck with Windows.

    14. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, what an asshole. Choosing an OS based on software requirements! Who is he to choose the OS that runs the software he wants.

    15. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Dunkirk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't say that the performance of Windows-based games takes a hit on Linux. I've run Linux on the desktop for 12 years. Every few months, I get the bug to "try it again." The last time I did so, I pirated -- yes, pirated -- I've bought it 3 times, and never gotten it to actually play the games I wanted to play -- Cedega, and took it for a drive. On both Counter Strike and Battlefield 2, the game played BETTER under Linux than it did under Windows. BF2 was appreciably better. However, two things kept me from switching. For CS:S, it was horribly long load times. I don't know what it was about Steam, but it would take several minutes to finally load up. BF2 was different. PunkBuster is NOT SUPPORTED under Cedega. What's so pathetic is that PunkBuster (and Valve's VAC) are apparently not preventing cheating. Our clan kicks people out of our servers all the time for hacking. Yet it keeps me from playing online under Linux. Other than that, Wine is letting the software actually run faster on the same hardware. YMMV.

      Note that Crossover is promising select games will work under their new version, like Steam and WoW. I'm thinking about buying this again for Outlook functionality at work. (Evolution's Exchange plugin isn't working with meeting invitations, but I'm WAY off the subject now.) CodeWeavers is saying that their NEXT version will support PunkBuster. That would be cool, as it would remove the main barrier to playing games on Linux at this point.

      Speaking of which, because of my older hardware not being able to play some of the new games, I just reinstalled Quake 3. I'm on Gentoo, and that was a simple process. I just put my discs in my drives, and did an ``emerge +cdinstall''. However, PunkBuster needed to update, and it wouldn't do it automatically. I found out how to force this, and did so in the main installation directory, but the game still wouldn't let me play online (it kept kicking me into observer mode). I finally figured out that I needed to run the update utility in my ~/.q3a/pb directory. So, I'm just leaving a googleable memory trail here. ;-)

      --
      Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
    16. Re:This is my single biggest push to free software by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm... all the major consoles support USB keyboards. Is the problem simply that the console game developers don't support these keyboards?

      I suspect it's just a vicious circle. Most console owners presumably don't have keyboards because games don't tend to need them and they don't come as standard, and vice versa. If someone developed, say, the best ever RTS to run on a console and supporting powerful, keyboard-based controls to execute complex commands, I imagine that situation would reverse pretty quickly in that segment of the user base, but who wants to be the first company to risk something like that in a business like gaming?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  21. doubt it by DogDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft is stepping over some big lines here.

    Either that, or they're just using their pool of hundreds of millions of users with tens of millions different hardware/software configurations in order to collect bug data.

    That's really the most obvious and the most likely answer.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:doubt it by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Informative

      They already do that with the "Report this bug to Microsoft?" screens that pop up in XP every time a program crashes...And frankly, I SHOULD be able to opt out if I choose to do so. Hell, they should want me to be able to opt out, so if I do something and crash a program, I don't send them weird data.

      The OP is right; this is a precursor to a subscription based OS; that's microsoft's dream, where everyone just pays the OS tax on a monthly/yearly basis, and gets "free" upgrades on a once-a-decade cycle.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:doubt it by Ravnen · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Did you read the article? It goes on about things like your IP address, and the web browser you're using being sent to Microsoft. This is essentially the information you send to every website you visit, unless you're using an anonymising proxy. Using Windows Update on XP, which runs via IE, almost certainly sends this same information to Microsoft, as does any web-based update function to the respective OS provider. The whole article reads almost like a joke.

      Sending an IP address and the name of a web browser to an update server is hardly something to be concerned about. Microsoft's forays into advertising, on the other hand, are certainly something to keep an eye on. For the moment I'm a paying customer, but if advertisers become the paying customers and I'm simply a target for advertising, then I'll worry.

    3. Re:doubt it by Jaknet · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you want to remove the "report this to microsoft". Then right click My Computer > Properties, select the Advanced tab, select the Settings button (third one down under Startup and Recovery) and un-tick the send an Admin alert. Also on the "error reporting" button at the bottom of the Advanced tab, just select the "disable error reporting, but notify when critical errors occur"

      Cannot remember off the top of my head which one stops the "report to Microsoft" pop-ups, but with both you can rest easy and not get the annoying pop-ups each time. Hope this helps

    4. Re:doubt it by include($dysmas) · · Score: 3, Funny
      reminds me of those bogus anti-spyware sites:

      you computer is broadcasting an ip address! like ... oh noes!
    5. Re:doubt it by DogDude · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't participate in beta testing programs without being compensated for my time and resources.

      Wow. Snooty. What software do you use that's perfect?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    6. Re:doubt it by Nazlfrag · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Sure they send your IP address and your browser details, and all file name extensions, all URLs visited w/Parental Controls enabled, all PnP devices installed (so your complete hardware specs), your Games folder(?!) etc. I'm not sure what else gets sent but from the list they provided I'm sure there's plenty more.

      Activation, Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP), Device Manager, Driver Protection, Dynamic Update, Event Viewer, File Association Web Service, Games Folder, Error Reporting for Handwriting Recognition, Input Method Editor (IME), Installation Improvement Program, Internet Printing, Internet Protocol version 6 Network Address Translation Traversal, Network Awareness (somewhat), Parental Controls, Peer Name Resolution Service, Plug and Play, Plug and Play Extensions, Program Compatibility Assistant, Program Properties--Compatibility Tab, Program Compatibility Wizard, Properties, Registration, Rights Management Services (RMS) Client, Update Root Certificates, Windows Control Panel, Windows Help, Windows Mail (only with Windows Live Mail, Hotmail, or MSN Mail) and Windows Problem Reporting are the main features and services in Windows Vista that collect and transmit user data to Microsoft.

      Looks like a lot more data than an IP address.

  22. Lies Lies Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    MS just wants to steal pr0n!

  23. 1984^H^H^H^H 2007 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't it ironic that the very company charging insane amounts for a "safe and secure" OS is essentially using spyware embedded in the system itself when the average user shells out a decent amount of money to prevent spyware programs?

    War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.... and now Spyware is Security.

  24. Participating with caution by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2

    If you want to be part of the whole, you have to accept the inherit lose of privacy that is associated with it. Doesn't matter how much you dislike it, but as a whole EVERYTHING is becoming more connected, you can't truly expect your privacy to somehow remain immune from all this "openness".
    To some extent this is true, but that does not mean we should give up more privacy than what is unavoidable.
    In the context of this article, I think it is bad to have a bunch of services on my computer that send more data to the software vendor than immediately necessary. It might be useful for Microsoft to run statistics about the habits of Windows users, but that does not mean I have to accept being monitored.

    BTW, my private computers are still on Windows 2000, because I found the product activation in XP too annoying. Vista is completely disqualified. The new machine I've just bought will probably be my last Windows PC, because it already approaches the limits of what Windows 2000 Professional can handle (Dual Core, 2 GByte RAM).
    Any significant upgrades from that will make a switch to a proper 64 bit OS necessary ;-)

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
  25. Re:Nothing new by value_added · · Score: 2, Insightful

    X-ray machines, Jet engines, and more all report operating conditions and usage information back to the manufacturer.

    And X-ray machines and jet engines are multi-purpose devices that store gobs of personal information?

    They aren't sending back any "personal information" like credit card numbers or even identification information.

    I'd like to know how you've achieved that conclusion given the fact that you and just about everyone outside of Microsoft lacks meaningful information as to what *is* being sent, in what form, and how.

    Someone long ago said "Doubt is not a pleasant state of mind, but certainty is a ridiculous one." But no worries, right?

  26. Re:Tagged as paranoia? by plague3106 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is it paranoia if the OS really *is* sending tons of data to Redmond?

    Is it? I saw nothing in the article that actually tried to attempt to see what information, if any, was being sent. All I saw was a really paranoid reading of an EULA.

    Is it slander if it's true?

    Just because something is in a license agreement doesn't mean its happening. People said the same thing about Windows update. The truth of the matter is it sends what OS / service pack your running and you get a list of updates available, which then is parsed by your computer to see if it needs them or not. Also, what updates are needed but not installed is reported back. Not exactly terrifying data.

  27. New Apple ad by ducomputergeek · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Hi I'm a PC" "And I'm a Mac." Mac sees PC with phone in hand, watching a 3rd person. "So what you doing?" "SHHH! I'm collecting data on that user over there. And phoning hom." *to person on other end* "Yeah, he's reading a news site. No, it's not MSNBC. Is he allowed to do that? Confirm or deny?"

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  28. Blame the EULA by kebes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The paranoia claims are really ridiculous.
    Frankly, if companies want to stop people have having paranoid reactions to EULAs, they should stop writing such blatantly over-broad EULAs in the first place. Go ahead, read a random portion from the EULA for Windows Vista. It contains all kinds of broad statements limiting what I can do with the product, while simultaneously disclaiming all warranty on their part, and giving them broad ability to do as they please and change the terms as they please.

    As long as companies write such ridiculous EULAs, it is only natural that people will react this way to them. Frankly the only reason that more people are not scared and appalled at EULAs is that no one actually reads them. Probably many of the things claimed in EULAs would not hold up in a court of law. But if all the terms of the EULAs were actually legally enforceable, then it would not be at all paranoid to be concerned about them: the terms are, after all, very consumer-hostile.
  29. Then, of course you won't mind this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As long as the info is sent anonymously, whats the big deal? This information is probably being used to make sure the operating system run the smoothest it can, the info sent can be used to help update the system and keep MS on top of bugs and holes in the OS

    Hello, we're with the police. We'd like to install these realtime video cameras and microphones into all the various rooms of your home. The information gathered will only be used to make sure your home is run the smoothest it can, and that no criminals can get in to do you harm, or in case a fire or storm damage or medical emergency then we can send the appropriate first-responders right away.

  30. What people forget... by Skiron · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... is that any Microsoft system is NOT owned by the 'buyer'- it is Microsofts' as they are licensing it to the 'users'. Microsoft can do what they wish as owners of said software. So I can't see what people get bothered about, really - what do you expect from something you do not and cannot ever, ever own, no matter how much you think you do (or even how much you spend on it too).

  31. The key here is the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act by zerofoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act otherwise known as GLBA controls how businesses collect, use, and distribute non-public information, and provides for penalties for the misuse of that information. Having managed IT for a bank, I can tell you that this act is serious stuff.

    Microsoft's attorneys are not stupid. They know if they collect non-public information, they are bound by GLBA to protect that information. That includes audits of any systems that store or transmit that information.

    It would cost Microsoft way more money to collect non-public information from its users than it could make by using or selling that information. Also, it would expose Microsoft's products to outside auditor scrutiny, possibly even requiring the source code of its products to be inspected.

    For these reasons, Microsoft does not want to collect non-public information from its users.

    -ted

  32. Just how secure are the MS servers? by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even if you decide that you believe MS 100% and trust that they won't quietly change the terms in a year or two (a right they do reserve) to allow them to collect personally identifying information AND sell, it, just how secure are their servers? Any chance their admins will sell the data on the side for obscene amounts of cash?

    Does any unique but not personally identifying information also appear in personally identifying Word documents? What is their policy if the NSA wants a copy? What is their policy if Bill needs a favor from Congress?

    Funny, my Linux boxen don't collect any information at all and still they run nice and stable and get their updates as needed.

  33. Re:Why do Open Information People Care? by pandrijeczko · · Score: 4, Informative
    In fact, I'd bet there's MORE applications on Linux that send your private information back to some web server somewhere, just because Linux sockets are easier to write for than their Windows cousins and so Linux has and will always have a lead over networking for developers.

    Let's assume for one moment that what you are saying is correct (although I don't believe for one moment that it is), then since these are independent applications, then it's very easy to disable or uninstall them if you don't like them phoning home. So, pray tell, how would you do this in Windows where the "phoning home" is being done by a stealth application that's running as part of the intrinsic underlying OS.

    Also, you're turning this into a "Windows vs Linux" discussion which is an overly simplistic viewpoint. Open Source applications are subject to constant peer review meaning that any suspicious "phoning home" would be rapidly identified and brought out into public attention. I can't comment on YaST as I don't use SuSE Linux but I suspect, as a commercial entity, they are interested in user information but since there are a myriad of Open Source applications that run on Windows also, this is more a case of Open vs Closed Source, not Windows vs Linux.

    So, you might charaterize things less harshly as follows : Linux tries to let you keep your personal information private but all of your work product is public, and Windows keeps all of your work product private but your personal information is public.

    Sorry, but that's utter trash. Aside from stability, "free beer" and customisability, the main reason I use Linux as my primary OS choice is that it allows *ME* to take responsibility for protecting *MY* information and does not allow me to dump that responsibility into the hands of some private entity.

    I am one of the first people to volunteer to take part in surveys and information gathering excercises because when I am *ASKED* to provide information and have the choice of what information to and not to provide, it can be very useful to someone who is designing or marketting a product or service. But I am *NOT* going to let someone just take that information - and if that means never using Vista then so be it...

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  34. sounds just like by namekuseijin · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Bottom line...serious cocaine addicts are stuck with crack"

    --
    I don't feel like it...
  35. If you read what he said, you'd see by DigitalReverend · · Score: 4, Informative

    He works in an FDA regulated environment, not works for the FDA. There are several companies that are heavily regulated by the FDA. I used to work for a pharmaceutical research company and almost every piece of software requires some kind of validation in order to protect no only the the pharmaceutical companies, but also the patients as well.

      While most IT environments can install Patches and Service Packs and Updates at will, this is not the case for FDA regulated companies. The update or patch will be installed on a system that has no access to any real data, each step of the installation is documented down to each mouse click complete with screen shots, then the installation is performed following that document by a person who didn't write the initial instructions, and they will then take screen shots of their installation. Then once it has passed the installation steps, then there are instructions written up for each thing that needs to be tested and validated, that is also complete with screen shots, and each mouse click and keyboard entry. Those instructions are sent to someone else who goes through each step, and takes screen shots along the way, and if that passes, it can then go on to production where the installation is performed, with screen shots, and a final series of tests, with screen shot is also done. All the documents are printed out as the FDA hasn't completely allowed electronic storage.

    So where the normal IT guy clicks download/install and maybe makes a log of it. A simple windows update in an FDA regulated environment will produce a mountain of paperwork. If anything along the line has the potential of revealing any confidential information against FDA regulations, then the software will be rejected. Vista at this point has been rejected so far.

    --
    I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
  36. Who do you trust? by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The bottom line is you have to transmit personally identifiable information to Microsoft to keep Vista running properly. Unless you're willing to go to extreme lengths to sanitize every bit of outbound data.

    I know my ISP is keeping records of where I visit on the internet. But if that really worried me I could tunnel through to a secure proxy and all they get is the proxy IP. If you block Microsoft at the firewall your operating system will stop working and you won't be able to get security updates.

    Finished updating my home network to Kubuntu this weekend. Very nice. I support Microcrap all day and going home to my Linux network is like diving into a clear, cool pool at the end of a hot day. Everything is so fluid, easy to manage, low stress computing. Funny thing, I remember a day when going with Microsoft was the low stress networking option.

    Those days are over.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  37. Re:Paranoia.... by Extide · · Score: 2, Insightful

    EXACTLY! I mean honestly its heresay whether MS even logs the IP's of the people sending the data or not. Who cares. I'm sure by simply reading TFA that very news website logged your ip, browser, etc also, just like ANY website does. Why dont people sit here and get all pissy about that? I mean in all reality Netscape was the first app to do this that I could recall, sending back crash information when it crashed; brilliant. This expands on the idea somewhat seeing what are the most common features used, as well as their reliabilty and performance. Also if you are really worried about the cpu time it will use to do this then you aren't really that bright or you are still using a 486, I mean seriously its essentially negligible. It will only be time before some of the big Linux distros follow suit-- but of course everyone will praise them for doing exactly the same thing... Oh well.

    --
    Technophile
  38. And you wondered why .... by Jerry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bush's DOJ switched sides and now our government supports Microsoft so vigorously both here and in abroad.

    Besides the free gift of your personal info, the are those backdoor keys. They didn't call them "NSA keys" for no reason.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  39. Console Games: The Darkness by Yiliar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why oh Why don't console game developers allow the use of keyboard and mouse in their games?

    My left thumb is the LEAST dexterous digit, and yet that it what I am forced to 'aim' with.

    The first PS3 game to release with a keyboard/mouse controller option will sell off the shelves!

    You hear me? Just do it!

    Thanks

  40. Re:Going into the spyware business by Real_Reddox · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Sending private data, Accept or Deny?"

    --
    I spent five minutes stealing cool sigs and all I got was this.
  41. Windows is not the only one... by sam0737 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and I would say Linux would phone home a lot too...

    Let's say Firefox:
    It phone home and a) checks for update, b) checks for plugins update, c) checks for phishing.

    Even apt-get would:
    Contact and download the catalog, I didn't check but believe by only downloading the difference, the other peer could easily guess how old my catalog is.

    And the list just go on with many other softwares.

    The difference is, you can always verify the source with open source software, which I believe 0.1% user, at most, might actually do. You can always assume Microsoft is doing bad thing with its phone home feature, but if you are that paranoid, you better setup an independent machine for going online, or a proxy machine to route and only route those absolutely necessary traffic.

  42. Detailed Service list by Joe+U · · Score: 2, Informative

    Activation - Annoying anti-piracy check. This is the worst of the group, because it can't be turned off.
    Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP) - Optional feedback program.
    Device Manager & Driver Protection & Dynamic Update - Gives you an option to scan for updated drivers.
    Event Viewer - Optional, If you click the 'get more information' it sends a query for, (get this) more information.
    File Association Web Service - Same as above.
    Games Folder - Downloads pictures and ratings for your games.
    Error Reporting for Handwriting Recognition - Optional error reporting..
    Input Method Editor (IME) - I assume it's looking for new language packs.
    Installation Improvement Program - Optional error reporting.
    Internet Printing - Not sure on this one, I assume it's a driver check. Unless they're talking about the Internet printing service that prints your photos. If so, then duh, grow up.
    Internet Protocol version 6 Network Address Translation Traversal, Network Awareness (somewhat), Peer Name Resolution Service - Read how these servcices work, they require an Internet server.
    Parental Controls - I believe it's tied to the phishing filter.
    Plug and Play, Plug and Play Extensions, Program Compatibility Assistant,Program Properties--Compatibility Tab, Program Compatibility Wizard, Properties, - Driver updates, compatibility updates.
    Registration - Marketing, optional
    Rights Management Services (RMS) Client - DRM as bad as activation
    Update Root Certificates - Automatic updates for SSL certs.
    Windows Control Panel - Not sure which panel
    Windows Help - Optional Online help
    Windows Mail (only with Windows Live Mail, Hotmail, or MSN Mail) - Well duh, hotmail calls microsoft?
    Windows Problem Reporting - Optional error reporting.

    With the exception of Activation and the RMS client, both of which are useless, these are useful Internet services, feel free to turn them off or actually answer NO, when asked.

    Stop making this into a 'oooh, they're spying on me'. They're spying the same way Slashdot is spying on you when you post a message.