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FCC Head Wants New Wireless Devices Unlocked

[TheBORG] writes with news that FCC chairman Kevin Martin wants 700-MHz wireless devices and services to be unlocked. Spectrum auctions for the 700-MHz airwaves, being opened up for fixed and mobile broadband, are scheduled for early next year. "The proposed rules would apply only to the spectrum being auctioned, not the rest of the wireless business, which still makes most of its revenue from voice calls. But Martin's proposal, if adopted by the FCC, could reverberate through a U.S. wireless industry that has tightly controlled access to devices and services... Like most devices sold in the USA, the iPhone ... allows only features and applications that Apple and AT&T provide and works only with an AT&T contract. The FCC chairman said he has grown increasingly concerned that the current practices 'hamper innovations' dreamed up by outside developers. One example:... 'Internationally, Wi-Fi handsets have been available for some time,' Martin noted. 'But they are just beginning to roll out here.'"

221 comments

  1. Is this as good as it sounds? by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It sounds good but I have a sneaking suspicion something in there is going to bite us in the ass. What is it?

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by internetcommie · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yeah, I wonder too! Is the FCC Chairman really suggesting that we should allow free competition here in the USA, or am I imagining things?

    2. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

      high hidden fees

    3. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      This only applys to a newly auctioned off part of the spectrum. So in other words, it's business as usual if you don't purchase that spectrum space. My guess would be this is to try to artifically charge the cell-phone companies more (in terms of lost revenue), so that some other type of company can outbid them in the auction.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    4. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by jollyreaper · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It sounds good but I have a sneaking suspicion something in there is going to bite us in the ass. What is it? Off-topic? What the hell? This is one of the few frist prosts that's actually on-topic. Do you people mod the first dozen posts down as force of habit?
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    5. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Amiga+Trombone · · Score: 1

      It sounds good but I have a sneaking suspicion something in there is going to bite us in the ass. What is it?

      I know what you mean. Superficially, it sounds like a good idea, but based on Kevin Martin's track record, I've gotta believe there's a worm in this apple somewhere....

    6. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I love that we cannot trust our government.

      I TOO had the same reaction... "Who is to benefit from this initiative? What's the catch?!"

      As a people, we're just unaccustomed to anything but self-interested actions by and through government activity. It's not cynicism, it's just the plain unbiased truth. The only time any government units will feel inclined to serve the people or community is near election time... it was kind of like the mysterious way gasoline prices dropped during the last elections.

      So I hope people have their thinking caps on and are considering if this may be yet another way to screw us. If they are pushing for something as simple as "no more locked devices" then I'll just be amazed.

    7. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh, sounds like I nailed it.

    8. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by jollyreaper · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Heh, sounds like I nailed it. If by "nailed" you mean "shat" and by "it" you mean "myself, spectacularly," then yes, yes, you did.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    9. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You're trying to troll an AC? That's impressively dumb.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    10. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This only applys to a newly auctioned off part of the spectrum True, but how long until the market ensures that it happens in other parts? At the moment, mobile providers don't offer this kind of service because it would cut their voice and SMS profits. If one provider did, then how long could the others remain competitive? These rules would force one provider (whoever buys the new frequencies) to, which should have a knock-on effect on the other parts of the market.

      I really don't understand why voice data is so much cheaper than other data for a mobile phone. Voice has all sorts of guaranteed bandwidth / latency requirements, while things like HTTP can just be squeezed into spare channels and bursted when there is spare capacity without issue, yet the data used for HTTP costs more. Why not let users run whatever they want, respect QoS flags in the packets, and charge more for ones with stricter requirements?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Brigadier · · Score: 1, Insightful


      not all government. I seem to recall the Clinton erra doign quite a bit to open up the internet, thus bringing us broadband at a pretty decent price. Now if your referring to teh bush regime I understand completely. Though it woudl seem the ragime is so bad back pedaling public service officers are doing anything anti-bush to stop there heads from also going onthe chopping block of public oppinion.

    12. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Vancorps · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with that is that it makes sense to us. Most people would see that cell phone companies raising the rates of their voice service though. They had a general trend of reducing the cost of voice calls before data arrived on the spot. Now that data is here it's being treated as a separate beast to consumers even though from a technical standpoint it's just a different QoS priority.

      It gives them a chance to charge more for added services which don't cost them anything additional so it's largely profit.

      Of course the other side of the coin is the problems they've had with SMS and how unreliable it was when it was initially rolled out. Why could I call my friend in the UK but I couldn't SMS her? So people got used to the other idea that the quality and reliability of one service was unrelated to the other services the same company offered. That means they can charge different rates as well.

    13. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you are over what, about 35, you remember that land line phones were heavy items you leased from the phone company. If you wanted an additional one, you called, and waited for them to bring it... People under 30 tend to be shocked by that whole concept, now you can buy a phone for a few dollars at Wal Mart or buy a complex expensive one, regardless of who you get your land line phone service from. I imagine in the coming decades, young people will be shocked that we used to be stuck getting our cell phone from the cell phone company, and didnt just buy the one we want at Wal Mart of Best Buy and get service from the company we chose...
      And for more proof that things dont change- people used to have "illegal" or "Hot" phones that they got from God knows where and hooked up themselves... Just like some people crack the software in their phones and use them outside of the cell company that sold the phone...

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    14. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by vertinox · · Score: 2, Funny

      It sounds good but I have a sneaking suspicion something in there is going to bite us in the ass. What is it?

      I dunno... Either a lobby of an ATT competitor is involved, or the FCC head wants an iPhone without changing carriers.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    15. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Afrosheen · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm stunned by your abuse of the english language combined with your low user number. Let me guess, blunt force trauma some time in the last 5 years?

    16. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by cbreaker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yea, I'd be amazed too, but it DOES make sense. There is a point where ALWAYS catering to big business will bite us in the ass. I feel as though one of those issues is outsourcing, and another is communication. If we, the US, fall too far behind everyone else in communication tools because of corporate greed and the government does nothing, the government is only hurting itself.

      I suppose we could take this as face value for now, until special stipulations are put in place to allow Verizon, ATT, and T-Mobile to do whatever they want.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    17. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by jessecurry · · Score: 1, Insightful

      what specifically did the Clinton-era government do? It seemed to me that he rode the prosperity of the Internet boom and left our economy in shambles(relatively speaking, of course).

      --
      Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
    18. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by chernevik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I love that we cannot trust our government. It's the founding idea of our constitution. The idea that _this_ administration is the only one that shouldn't be trusted is confusing and dangerous. It makes people vulnerable to trusting other administrations, or institutions like Congress or the courts, or politicians when really they all bear watching. None of them get anything like the scrutiny they deserve.
    19. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much what I understand as well.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    20. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I imagine in the coming decades, young people will be shocked that we used to be stuck getting our cell phone from the cell phone company, and didnt just buy the one we want at Wal Mart of Best Buy and get service from the company we chose...

      Young people? I'm 48 years old and I'm still in shock about the way the US replaced the USSR as the horrible anti-free-market economy.

      I still can't get my head around the idea that French telephone regulators are doing a better job than the FCC. What the fuck is going on? Has the universe been replaced by a poor parody of itself?
      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    21. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Okay, my intended meaning was different, I'm sure you knew, than the "correct" meaning you are expressing. I do agree that at NO time should we simply "trust" our government or the judgment of the people making decisions on our behalf. I wish that were the FIRST thing stated in elementary school government/civics classes. (Do they even have those classes any longer?) After all, the US was founded on the notion that the government cannot be trusted and so checks and balances were installed everywhere they could think of.

      But as shown, the Bush administration claims executive privilege at every turn and the vice president claims he's not in the executive and so doesn't have to follow the rules governing the executive branch... and really, I blame all the "better behaving" presidents before them as it's clear that part of the reason that the senate and house of representatives aren't fighting these outrages harder and faster is that they are simply unprepared to deal with such misbehavior. There was a way things were done and Bush and co. have really shaken things up and it seems like they really don't know what to do.

    22. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by jack455 · · Score: 1

      My guess is some cell company might decide to charge for unlimited wifi calls, even though you're not using they're network.
      I'm cheating 'cause I already saw the t-mobile ad.

      Of course I might be ok with this if it was about the price of registering a domain name, and if you could choose to _not_ pay and connect VoIP with IP addresses

    23. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Osrin · · Score: 1

      In many countries this is how it works today... I live in Singapore, we can opt to take a handset from one of the three main wireless providers or you can just pick up service from them and then grab a handset from one of the IT malls, some of the supermarkets or an electronics shop.

    24. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      just before the election for the Roads Commision in counties in Texas is the ONLY time the rural gravel roads get graded. Election for sheriff? the jails fill full of bums and hookers, it is nothign new. The only difference here is scale; Federal politicos can grade entire areas of the spectrum...

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    25. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by chernevik · · Score: 1

      Do they even have those classes any longer? No, not really, not that they were ever so good to begin with. And who exactly teaches those classes and how are the costs of those classes funded? and why would we expect them to be taught well? I'm pretty much impervious to all complaints about this administration. Bush et al go to court like anyone else and they obey the judicial orders like anyone else, often after appeal but that too is like anyone else. They're out of office in less than two years at which point someone else will continue the same kinds of things but to different ends and we'll get the same complaints and defenses but from different characters. Maybe there's something more than grist for someone's propaganda mill but every time I check it's the same old thing.
    26. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      People in Europe and other civilized parts of the world are already shocked by the whole concept.

    27. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Sparks23 · · Score: 2, Informative

      My guess is some cell company might decide to charge for unlimited wifi calls, even though you're not using they're network.
      I'm cheating 'cause I already saw the t-mobile ad. As I understand it, though, the T-Mobile WiFi handset actually does have a fairly significant added value over most generic WiFi SIP or Skype handsets.

      With T-Mobile's proposed service, if you find a WiFi hotspot it automatically logs into a VoIP service provided by /T-Mobile/, and your cellular number suddenly becomes your VoIP number. People call the same number, but it now rings over your WiFi connection and you talk without using minutes. Plus, the report I read on it suggested you could transition seamlessly between WiFi and GSM; walk out into cellular coverage, and it switches back to GSM and the handset and T-Mobile's network handle seamlessly moving the call from VoIP to GSM cellular without even hanging up.

      The idea is that you just have one number, and those calling you don't need to know or care whether you're on a WiFi hotspot or out in cellular service areas. What you're paying for in their proposed service is not the network bandwidth, but a flat service fee for their VoIP system and related services.
      --
      --Rachel
    28. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by feepness · · Score: 1

      Remember the Clinton sponsored government mandated cryptokey fiasco? They wanted to make sure that the govt could break all encryption.

      Don't worry, some other administration will do something bad enough to make us forget all about Bush.

      Wait a second. I guess you should worry.

    29. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, Carterfone!

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    30. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by ehiris · · Score: 2, Funny

      Reducing the cost of wireless services reduces the expenses of Oil companies.

    31. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      I'd always heard that the current FCC head was just an SBC (AT&T now) shill, so I'm betting on the latter reason!

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    32. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Correction friend: Bush et al have consistently ignored legal instruments such as subpoenas presently and in the past. Further, while he cites many executive privileges, there are many that come encumbered by due diligence procedures that have also been ignored such as commuting the sentence of Scooter Libby. Bush and company are consistently acting as if they are above the law and are persistently ignoring legal measures directed against them. There's only one measure they will not be able to resist and I pray it starts soon -- Articles of Impeachment. And they SHOULD act against Cheney first, otherwise impeaching Bush would place Cheney in the president's seat allowing him to create all manner of complications and impediments to justice. Frankly, I don't see why they don't order impeachment of both simultaneously.

    33. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by morcego · · Score: 1

      As sad as it sound, not doing anything is a very positive side of a government. Most of the time they will stick their fingers everywhere, and screw things up.

      --
      morcego
    34. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are quite right to question it.

      The FCC, being an agency with VERY LITTLE citizen interest has done some amazingly crooked things in the past.

      They get away with it because almost no one cares about them, nothing gets reported about them and a lot of people don't even realize who they are.

      Something is crooked, but most people will never even hear about it, even after it is revealed.

    35. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "People in Europe and other civilized parts of the world"

      I like how you separate Europe from civilized parts of the world.

    36. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by ZachMG · · Score: 1

      Just becuase someone's grammar isn't up to your par that doesn't give you the righ to flame them. And on top of this when is the last time you saw a genius with good handwriting? Maybe his ideas are more important then the presentation? Ever think of that??

      --
      There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum. --Arthur C. Clarke
    37. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Least we forget, with an unlocked device, call it a cell phone, voice is merely data with a particular QoS.

    38. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      Just becuase someone's grammar isn't up to your par that doesn't give you the righ to flame them. And on top of this when is the last time you saw a genius with good handwriting? Maybe his ideas are more important then the presentation? Ever think of that?? 1) handwriting != grammar. The former is a physical coordination issue, the latter an education issue
      2) spelling and grammar of one's native tongue are remarkably accurate indicators of intelligence and education
      3) [to GP poster] low user ID does not indicate anything beyond user account seniority.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    39. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Adambomb · · Score: 1

      There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
        - Douglas Adams
      --
      Ice Cream has no bones.
    40. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by jack455 · · Score: 1
      Oops, I guessed this, and meant to comment on it...

      Of course I might be ok with this if it was about the price of registering a domain name, and if you could choose to _not_ pay and connect VoIP with IP addresses So I think registering my phone # with T-Mobile (more compplicated than it sounds, I know) when I already have their service, should be somewhat comparable to registering a cheap domain name, not $9.99/month as it is now.

      And, I should be able to buy a Nokia 6086 and only use VoIP the normal way, with no t-mob charges applying. Especially if I pay cash for it with no service commitment, as I did with my Samsung t509. Then it would have nothing to do with them unless they collude with cellphone OEMs to restric it.

      I would _love_ to know if this is possible.

      Steve
    41. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by Sparks23 · · Score: 1

      But it's not registering a domain name. The service that supposedly handles seamlessly swapping you between unlimited-use VoIP and your GSM cell plan /without even dropping calls/ as you switch is a service. It doesn't just work once, or even just (like dyndns) periodically get updated. It's an actual service you're using.

      Without knowing how that specific phone works, we can't really know whether or not it supports doing direct IP-based SIP connections (or even if it uses SIP behind the scenes). Just that it does WiFi-hosted VoIP when there's a hotspot.

      That said, if you have a generic free-service VoIP phone that also works as a GSM cellular phone, I can't imagine you COULDN'T use it. T-Mobile's never stopped people from using unlocked O2 handsets or whatever, so a GSM/generic-SIP-VoIP phone would presumably work fine. It's not like T-Mobile controls all WiFi, after all! It just wouldn't do the seamless hopping between spots, or integrate with the new T-Mobile-supported routers from D-Link and LinkSys (which will automatically prioritize VoIP data when a call is going on, and which do a single WiFi ping rather than making the handset drain battery finding the WiFi network).

      From what I've read on T-Mobile's plan, you're not somehow paying for otherwise-freely-available VoIP. You're paying for a system they engineered, which their handset supports. Nothing's stopping you from using some other VoIP WiFi handset. :)

      --
      --Rachel
    42. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by mokumegane · · Score: 1

      Yeah, whenever the government in any form makes a move to do something, I question it, too. This looks good for the consumer but I know that the government and businesses affected by it will find a way to profit from it. They always do. There's too many people using their government position for their benefit instead of everyone's benefit. Just look at how Social Security works and all those things we have to 'help' citizens who need the help. It took me two years to get medicaid and I was eligible for it right off. Sure, they'll pay my medical bills but telling doctors' offices that I don't have a payment method other than medicaid saying they'll pay my medical bills... doesn't move them to let me see a doctor. No, the government isn't doing this to help us out or help phone technology and yes they'll find a way to help themselves to more...

    43. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      Why don't you have the balls to post without using AC? You think someone is going to *gasp* mod you down? THE HORROR.

      But secondly, this is a discussion board. It's ALL ABOUT what the fuck we feel. What else? Should everyone that posts with their opinion now stop doing so, and only post the opinion of a sampling of the public? "I'd like to reply to you, but I need to check with the community and see if they'll sign the petition first."

      You're the problem.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    44. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by janrinok · · Score: 1

      I think that you might have blown your argument by using 'becuase (because)', 'righ (right)', 'when is (when was)' and '?? (?)'. Is the content of your reply more important than the presentation, or would you rather we thought you a genius?

      --
      Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
    45. Re:Is this as good as it sounds? by tacky+taco · · Score: 1

      The new frequencies could be purchased by one or several providers and never put into service, thus maintaining the status quo.

  2. Whoa... by Abalamahalamatandra · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who is this guy and why hasn't Bush fired him yet?

    1. Re:Whoa... by Luscious868 · · Score: 1

      Bush should act immediately. The man should be placed in Gitmo! This new found wireless "freedom" will only make the terrorists hate us more.

    2. Re:Whoa... by Etrias · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're assuming Bush fires anyone. If it's good for us, just wait for the eventual announcement saying he's retiring to spend more time with his family.

    3. Re:Whoa... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is this guy and why hasn't Bush fired him yet? As if the FCC was any better about these issues during the Clinton years...

      Face it, the business of American is business. This is good for the economy, but not always good for the consumer.
    4. Re:Whoa... by TommydCat · · Score: 1

      Bush should act immediately. The man should be placed in Gitmo! This new found wireless "freedom" will only make the terrorists hate us more.
      But I thought it was doing things that the terrorists want that was bad -- which is it? Or should I just live my life like normal and not worry about what the terrorists think?
      --
      This comment does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the author.
    5. Re:Whoa... by cashman73 · · Score: 1
      "You're doing a great job, Bro--- Kevie!"

      Don't worry,... he'll be gone by September,...

    6. Re:Whoa... by vthokie69 · · Score: 1

      Unless you're a US Attorney. But then again, that was delegated to Alberto Gonzales and he is suffering amnesia.

  3. First post! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, yeah. In Soviet Russia the FCC locks you!

    This doesn't seem very capitalist?

  4. Say it ain't so!! by Enrique1218 · · Score: 3, Funny

    A public official actually concerned about businesses reaming the consumer. What has become of the United States?

    --
    You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
    1. Re:Say it ain't so!! by paulthomas · · Score: 3, Informative

      Kevin Martin actually isn't that great of a guy.

      Aside from this, I agree with the premise that phones shouldn't be artificially locked to a network, but I think that this is an issue for customers of cell phone manufacturers and not an FCC issue. I can buy and use an unlocked phone right now and use it with my current AT&T plan. I just won't have AT&T subsidizing the purchase.

    2. Re:Say it ain't so!! by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      The problem is that specific models are designed so that, even if you could unlock them, certain features will only work with a specific carrier. Even if you could buy an unlocked iPhone for example, most of its features are only going to work with AT&T. What is necessary in the U.S. isn't just an unlocked phone, but phones which use an agreed upon standard to work the same across all the major carriers (like a computer, which works basically the same no matter which ISP you choose). Why more consumers aren't demanding this, I have no idea.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:Say it ain't so!! by paulthomas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why more consumers aren't demanding this, I have no idea. I would guess it has something to do with intellectual laziness, in which a subsidized phone from a provider is considered "free." I think a lot of people do not think of a phone as something that they can purchase from someone outside of their service provider.

      Interesting points about the need for standards. Hopefully we'll see standards evolve over time to incorporate things that aren't currently standard, like visual voicemail.
    4. Re:Say it ain't so!! by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can buy and use an unlocked phone right now and use it with my current AT&T plan. I just won't have AT&T subsidizing the purchase.

      I don't know what the exact policies on these things are, but I've run into trouble with this. T-Mobile wouldn't sell me data services because I had an unlocked phone, and a friend of mine had the same problem with Verizon.

      Therefore, I don't believe it's as simple as you imply. The government might have to step in and require carriers to offer unlocked phones for an increased price and/or cease penalizing customers who buy unlocked phones. If carriers want to subsidize phones, it should be enough that the consumer is required to enter into a contract. Locking the phone shouldn't be necessary.

    5. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aside from this, I agree with the premise that phones shouldn't be artificially locked to a network, but I think that this is an issue for customers of cell phone manufacturers and not an FCC issue.

      Actually the issue affects a far wider range of people than the cell phone manufacturers and their customers.

      An enormous amount of resources is wasted every time a consumer switches to a new phone when they switch to different carrier.

      The old handset will typically end up in a landfill, the resources to have produced it are now lost, and worse, those resources add to toxicity levels of groundwater supplies, food-chain participants, etc. This is in addition to consuming volume in the landfill itself.

      I believe economists call this effect a "deadweight loss".

    6. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For more information on this topic, go back in time before the Bell Telephone monopoly was broken up into baby Bells. There were many forms of consumer abuse by the company, but among them was an effort to prevent people from owning their phones and to prevent them from using any phone they wanted. Although I'm sure part of this was driven by other manufacturers interested in getting into the phone equipment selling business, the justification for the breakup and the new rules were supposed to be to correct the abuse done to consumers through Bell's practices.

      Fast forward to the latter 20th and early 21st century and we see the same pattern of abuse occuring. Now it is with wireless carriers locking you in with specific phone models. Certain carriers have exclusive deals for certain models of phone and you never know which carrier will get the coolest phone next... though 9+ out of 10 times, T-Mobile will not have access to that phone for the next two years if ever. (T-Mobile is my carrier...)

      If I understand this proposed initiative, it could mean all phones will be sold unlocked removing that form of customer abuse.

      Would this result in an end to the "free" or "very discounted phone?" Or perhaps some other form of customer abuse will come next? (Look at the news about how Sprint is booting their top-complaining customers... I wonder if those unfortunates will have trouble getting on with other carriers? Is this the next form of customer abuse to come?)

    7. Re:Say it ain't so!! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can you name a single American computer company that owns a significant global market share? What about a software company?

      Now fast forward ten years; the desktop era is over, the ubicomp era is starting.

      Now backtrack to the present, and look at the companies poised to take control of that market. How many successful mobile phone companies are based in the USA?

      It's simple economics; there's an important technology market that is likely to grow enormously in the next few decades, and the USA is well behind the rest of the world. Why? Because US mobile phone networks are less regulated than those in other countries, and so lock down the hardware more. It doesn't make sense to develop a mobile phone in the USA, because the networks won't let you use the most innovative features, and who wants to develop a consumer product they can't use and get their friends to use? Look at the iPhone; it's got a nice UI, but to anyone outside the USA its feature set looks like something from 3-5 years ago (more if you're in Japan).

      In summary, the neo-cons want the next Microsoft, IBM, Intel and Dell to be US companies, not Finnish or Japanese (and I don't blame them). The only surprising thing is that someone in power is thinking further forwards than the next election.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Say it ain't so!! by wkk2 · · Score: 1

      I purchased two unlocked Nokia E61 phones so I could get wifi. I had to purchase them through an importer in the USA at a substantial price. AT&T doesn't give me a discount even though they never subsidize anything. What's worse is trying to get technical support with a phone problem. One beeps multiple times apparently when the phone is pinged. US Nokia: we don't support the E61 since it isn't sold here. UK Nokia: We can't answer your email since you are in the US, ...

      The root cause is the carriers define the phone and the customers don't get any say in the matter. We need open standards just like what was forced on the industry for POTS service.

    9. Re:Say it ain't so!! by jez9999 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Kevin Martin actually isn't that great of a guy.

      In the phrase, "Too much of a good thing", 'much' is functioning as a noun; this is why 'of' is needed to glue together the nouns 'much' and 'thing'.
      In almost all other phrases similar to this, 'much' is the only word after the 'too' that functions as a noun; other words are all adjectives. eg. "Too loud a noise", "Too small a quantity", "That great a guy". Adjectives directly describe a noun (eg. 'loud noise', 'small quantity', 'big problem'), and DO NOT NEED the preposition 'of' to glue them with their noun! Incidentally, even 'much' can be used as an adjective, when it is describing an abstract noun: "Too much rain".
      Therefore, your phrase,
      "That great of a guy"
      should have read,
      "That great a guy".
      The 'of' is totally redundant and incorrect. Please do not ever use it UNLESS you are using the word 'much' with a non-abstract noun and need 'of' to glue them together.

    10. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Oldsmobile · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I find it interesting, that the US has probably the most liberalized mobile communication market out there -and is always lagging behind the rest of the world in mobile phone technology.

      This even though it's one of the top economies in the world.

      Most popular phones are old fashioned, the service is lacking, spotty and uses several standards and only in the US could they come out with a brand new smart phone and NOT feature 3G on it -and sell a shitton of them anyway!

      --
      Some say he is made with ascii, others that he is eyeballed daily by millions. All we know is, he is known as the Sig
    11. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct.

      I say this all of the time.

      Separate the line from what travels down the line. Until this happens, we will never have a "fair" game and the people using the services will always get something less then optimum. This applies to cell phone and a carrier, a carrier and the wireless signal, your copper line and your phone service, your cable line and your cable service, your electric line and your electric service. We as consumers have paid for the installation and maintenance of every one of these lines through tax dollars, easements, and monthly bills and we are still stuck with the same person who uses those lines provides the only service on those lines. I have a pole and lines running through my yard. That is 10ft X 190 FT of property that I no longer have control over. Would it not make sense to pay the same cost of installation and maintenance of those lines and have a choice of who provides the service down them? We would end paying the same amount for a copper line to our house if Verizon or Jims copper line service does the installation of it. At least with Jims line service, we are not stuck with Jims Internet and voice service as well. Remember folks, we already pay for those lines, why not pay the same amount of money for them and have competition?

      Wireless is a little different because there are no lines but we are stuck with the buyers of the spectrum so it is the same thing. Open it up I'd say. In theory the government makes big money from auctioning off the frequencies, that big money is then charged to us via higher monthly fees so we are paying for it regardless. If anyone can show any method or theory of how we are not paying the full cost for it, I'd like to see it.

    12. Re:Say it ain't so!! by profplump · · Score: 1

      Last time I tried to get a SIM the easiest course was to simply take the "free" phone and steal the SIM from it. At the time that didn't have any penalty in terms of extending my (already existing) contract, but they weren't even slightly interested in simply sending me a SIM. I've heard that T-Mobile will send you a SIM so long as you've already got a contract, but I've had no such luck with AT&T.

      And good luck trying to bring your existing equipment to a any new provider without signing up for the same 2-year contract you'd get with your subsidized equipment -- you're paying them for the free phone, including the cancellation fee, even if you don't get one.

    13. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Knara · · Score: 1

      Get back to work.

    14. Re:Say it ain't so!! by paulthomas · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the constructive criticism.

    15. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the phrase, "Too much of a good thing", 'much' is functioning as a noun; this is why 'of' is needed to glue together the nouns 'much' and 'thing'.
      How is "much" used as a noun? That doesn't make any sense. You can't have an adverb ("too") modifying a noun. You are too pedant.
    16. Re:Say it ain't so!! by vthokie69 · · Score: 1

      Actually, it would be abuse for Sprint to force them to stay for the duration of their contract. Getting released from Sprint is what I call good customer service.

      Anyways, I doubt that it would mean an end to the free or very discounted phones. Carriers would continue to offer the promotional phone deals in an effort to gain new market share or keep customers. It's just more likely you would see fewer features disabled in the phones that they are offering since their subsidized phones would have to compete with the unlocked phones from retail outlets.

      Even if the subsidized phone offerings were to go away, the customer would still likely win. Carriers would have to compete more on quality of service, price, and customer service. Retail phone offerings would probably come down in price in addition to offering more features and being more responsive to the end-user preferences.

    17. Re:Say it ain't so!! by feepness · · Score: 1

      Most popular phones are old fashioned, the service is lacking, spotty and uses several standards and only in the US could they come out with a brand new smart phone and NOT feature 3G on it -and sell a shitton of them anyway! 2Gs is not very many Gs.
    18. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      T-Mobile wouldn't sell me data services because I had an unlocked phone, and a friend of mine had the same problem with Verizon.

      Not seven months ago did I arrive in the US, with my SE K800i phone, unlocked, from Australia. I opened a new account with T-Mobile, SIM only, postpaid, and at that point of subscription I asked for the "Total Internet" addon. Not an eyelid batted.

    19. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Even if you could buy an unlocked iPhone for example, most of its features are only going to work with AT&T.

      Precisely one of its features, Visual Voicemail, will only work with AT&T. The rest are open.

      Given that VV is not as amazingly revolutionary as people seem to believe (from a technical perspective), and did not require the "fundamental reengineering" of AT&T's network, I can see it being reverse engineered easily enough. It is only AAC encoded audiofiles delivered by data bearer to the phone, with metadata for caller information.

    20. Re:Say it ain't so!! by nine-times · · Score: 1
      Well I don't know what to tell you. This was my situation:

      I already had an account, switched to an unlocked phone (moving my old SIM), and then tried to sign up for data services. I told them what kind of phone I had, and they said the data services would be activated remotely within... whatever amount of time, an hour I think. It never happened, so I called back. Tech support said my activation failed because I didn't have the T-Zones software (or whatever it's called) that should be on my phone. I informed them that it didn't have T-Mobile software because the phone was not purchased through T-Mobile, and I was told (twice by two different techs) that I was out of luck, because T-Mobile did not offer data services to phones not purchased through T-Mobile. No exceptions. As I said, one of my friends had a similar experience with Verizon.

      That being said-- yes, I've heard people talk about getting data service from carriers on unlocked phones. Maybe the techs were misinformed or lying, or maybe there's some other easy way around the issue. Either way, it's clear to me that the issue isn't as simple as, "If you want an unlocked phone, you can just buy one without the carrier subsidy." The carriers won't necessarily support an unlocked phone.

    21. Re:Say it ain't so!! by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Fair comment. I did get told it would be unsupported and might not work, because of T-Zones. But in reality, T-Zones is their WAP portal and such. Tell them you have -supported phone here-. They'll activate it on the account. They'll send a config message to your phone. If you've told them a similar model, you should be okay with this, if not, this URL is invaluable: http://tmobileus.wdsglobal.com/phonefirst - it'll give you config instructions for many many phones, including unsupported handsets. If yours isn't there, check the settings for the T-mobile MDA - apropos of the Windows Mobile specific stuff, the settings required should be straightforward, if you know anything about configuring this sort of thing.

    22. Re:Say it ain't so!! by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      I don't know what you consider 'old fashioned', but the most popular phones here have 3G (usually EVDO), cameras (usually 1.3 or 2 megapixels), video recording, streaming video, music playback, and expandable memory.

      Seriously. Walk down to a Verizon or Sprint store sometime and see what people are buying.

      As for the iPhone, its lack of 3G is a joke, and everyone but Apple fanboys understand it. It's not selling because it's in the 'backwater' US. It's selling because it's from Apple.

    23. Re:Say it ain't so!! by DoctorFrog · · Score: 1

      I suspect it has more to do with a lack of customer "demand" in the first place. Most customers will choose from a menu but don't demand anything which isn't already on the menu.

  5. which FCC? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 0, Troll

    What happened to the FCC? This decision would actually benefit the country! The FCC is supposed to be spending all its budget on forcing Christian fundamentalist values on everyone! What went wrong?

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:which FCC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Federal Christian Coalition
      (head by a former AT&T lobbying professional, what can possibly go wrong?)

  6. The aliens have landed by Phil_At_NHS · · Score: 4, Funny

    For those of you who thought aliens would take over by pretending to be human and infiltrating government, I apologize for calling you nasty names. If the Chairmen of the FCC is doing something consumer friendly, there is no other explanation. Now, I AM hardpressed to figure out who such action forwards the cause of these aliens, unless maybe they too are just sick and tired of crippled phones....

    1. Re:The aliens have landed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that's what the PrimeCo Alien has been up to!

  7. AMEN. by Mockylock · · Score: 0

    This should have been done with fucking cell phones a long time ago.

    --
    "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
  8. What we really want to know... by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    how long before an official unlocked iPhone appears?

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:What we really want to know... by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      About five years, as soon as their exclusive contract with AT&T expires. Hopefully then you'll be able to buy a $500 iPhone from Apple, and any network will offer you service with no contract (since the phone isn't subsidized).

      Meanwhile, other manufacturers will have added support for AT&T's new visual voicemail system, and other providers will have added support for those phones. They'll all include either Opera Mobile or Minimo, to compete with Safari on the iPhone. You'll still be able to get a free phone by signing a 2-year contract, but it will become common for those who have the up-front cash to get the flexibility of being able to change service providers whenever they like. This will force providers to actually compete, knowing that if they screw up, customers can leave. And manufacturers will compete too, trying to make their phones attractive enough to get people to buy their high-end phones directly instead of going with cheap subsidized crap. Basically, everybody wins except evil cell phone providers who want to extract as much money as possible without fear of repercussion.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    2. Re:What we really want to know... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Hopefully then you'll be able to buy a $500 iPhone from Apple, and any network will offer you service with no contract (since the phone isn't subsidized).

      Bull, the phone wouldn't cost that much. The reason is that now instead of select phones working on one carrier, every phone could work on every carrier... in other words, we'd have a flood of phones to choose from (more than today) and prices would drop in the face of this new competition.

    3. Re:What we really want to know... by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      I've been a Mac user and Apple fan for over 15 years; I don't expect the iPhone to drop in price that much. :-P

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    4. Re:What we really want to know... by ZeroPly · · Score: 3, Insightful
      How long before Apple unlocks the iPhone?

      Well, I certainly don't care. I'm planning on putting in an order for an OpenMoko neo1973. ( details at http://www.openmoko.com/, not affiliated with them ) The cell phone guru at work has offered to help me with the connectivity side. Why should I wait on the benevolent dictator of cute to grace me with the knowledge he feels fit to bestow? I'm the kind of whacko that thinks a microwave should ship with an API CD and serial port.

      I'm not an Apple basher, but definitely not a fan. It amazes me that they took a freely developed OS, used it as the foundation for their own commercial OS, used that in turn as a foundation for their proprietary locked down phone, and now won't even let the original BSD freelance guys write code for the phone! You can bet your last dollar anything I cobble together for the neo will be GPLv3.

      Again, if you like Apple, go for it. I'm a utilitarian at heart and think it's perfectly OK to use technology without embracing the politics behind the scenes. But if so, you shouldn't honestly be asking for or expecting an unlock - you should take what they give you. Apple's business model is based on closed systems and keeping you locked in and everyone else locked out. If you support them then you implicitly support that philosophy.

      Rather than having the FCC force manufacturers to make devices open, it would be more productive to buy from and support a manufacturer that chooses to be that way.

      --
      Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
    5. Re:What we really want to know... by frdmfghtr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Meanwhile, other manufacturers will have added support for AT&T's new visual voicemail system, and other providers will have added support for those phones.
      I bet somebody with a good set of programming skills could write a visual voicemail app for any smartphone...

      From what I have observed, visual voice mail works by downloading a copy of the voicemail message to your iPhone, which then pairs up the caller ID phone number to your address book. When you play the message, it plays locally (I put my iPhone in "Airplane mode" to check this; wireless was unavailable but I could still play old messages) instead of over the wireless network.

      There could be an app written that, upon notification of a waiting voicemail message, would automatically call your voicemail number, send the password after waiting for some cue, record the messages, and hang up (like an automatic logon script). The calling number would be parsed via voice recognition (since the numbers are read back by a computerized voice), as would the end of the message.

      If handhelds can support voice dialing, they should have the horsepower to parse a computerized voice instead of a natural human voice (since it's a computer, it says the numbers the exact same every time).

      What do you think...make sense?
      --
      Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
    6. Re:What we really want to know... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      They'll all include either Opera Mobile or Minimo, to compete with Safari on the iPhone.
      Fuck no, they'll use Safari
      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    7. Re:What we really want to know... by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Cool.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    8. Re:What we really want to know... by splatter · · Score: 1

      "How long before Apple unlocks the iPhone?"

      Not long now.... DVD Jon already cracked the phone so it can be used to play music.

      http://nanocr.eu/2007/07/03/iphone-without-att/

      With enough time someone will figure out how to unlock the iphone I promise.

      dave

      --
      "(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.
  9. If he were really interested in helping consumers by Scareduck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    he'd come out against spectrum auctions. Is there any single policy that's proven as pernicious lately? One of the most annoying things to come out of Congress has been the forced conversion of the VHF and UHF spectrums to, well, something else, and the retirement of NTSC broadcasts, mainly because Congress is greedy and wants the money such an auction would give them. Never mind that there's no compelling reason to ditch NTSC broadcasts, or that it will cost billions for consumers to convert their TVs to HD. Those auction costs eventually get passed on to the consumers of those products, too, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

  10. fcc vs private industry by SolusSD · · Score: 1

    I really don't know who stifles innovatino more, the fcc or private industry

  11. But...but... by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    He's a Republican...he's Eeeevilllll!

    My world is shaken to its core.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  12. Actually, he is a Bushite by RingDev · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually he is a Bush appointee. He was one of the lawyers/advisers to Bush and Chenney in the 2000 election. He was then coat tailed into the White House as a legal aid working with the FCC and on some other telecomm/technology groups. He worked in the FCC under the previous FCC Chair before Bush nominated/appointed him to the Chair in 2005. His wife is one of Chenney's aids to boot.

    My first thought is that Haliburton is getting into the wireless device industry and doesn't want to have to play nice with the existing heavily stacked market. Remember, the only thing better than big business to a Neo-Con is a big business that the Neo-Con has investments in.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    1. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by that+IT+girl · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or maybe, just maybe, he actually hired someone with a decent idea in his head.

      It could happen.

      --
      10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
      20 DRINK COFFEE
      30 GOTO 10
    2. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by falcon5768 · · Score: 1

      Well if you throw enough rocks at a coffe cup, one of them has to land in it eventually.

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    3. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by RingDev · · Score: 1

      I agree, I think it is a good idea. But I don't think the idea has the will of the American people at it's heart. It is a business decision, and the hope is that it will lead to more innovation, IP, jobs, sales, and taxes.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    4. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Or maybe, just maybe, he actually hired someone with a decent idea in his head.

      Yeah, they can't catch them all in the screening process ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by Drgnkght · · Score: 1

      True, but you're far more likely to brake the cup first.

    6. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More often than not, decisions which are good for business are good for the American people if those decisions lead to more products or more uses for existing products. If this opening up of the handset is good for the phone companies, they might expand their business and hire more people. And maybe there'll be new companies starting up to take advantage of the new opportunities, thus hiring more people. And maybe those new companies will get some venture capital, making the money circulate around instead of sitting in someone's pockets.

      --
      No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
    7. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by Drgnkght · · Score: 1

      Bah, I previewed that one too... Previous post should say "break".

    8. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      No it cant. The devil himself (the VP) holds his wife hostage in one of his man-sized safes. and stamped all over her "treated as SECRET" and refuses to wipe off the stamps until he does his bidding.

      EVERYTHING this administration has touched either dies or is bastardized to ill gotten gains.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by Darby · · Score: 1

      Bah, I previewed that one too... Previous post should say "break".

      Nah, you were correct assuming that the coffee cup was moving toward you initially ;-)

    10. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by Darby · · Score: 1

      More often than not, decisions which are good for business are good for the American people if those decisions lead to more products or more uses for existing products.

      True as far as it goes, but nothing anything like that happens too often around here.
      Mostly things touted as "good for business" are good for some particular business but bad for everybody else.

      Things like trying to give the oil companies multi billions of dollars in free money when they're already getting record profits, or farm subsidies, DMCA, or various other crap like that is sold as "good for business" when it quite obviously isn't true in general are the rule rather than the exception.

      So you are correct, but few things sold that way are actually that way.

    11. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by dodongo · · Score: 1

      Or maybe, just maybe, he actually hired someone with a decent idea in his head.


      Sounds like it's time to fire the bastard.
    12. Re:Actually, he is a Bushite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "My first thought is that Haliburton is getting into the wireless device industry"

      First though, eh? Wow, that's sad.

  13. Does this really matter? by CodeShark · · Score: 1
    I get the gist of the argument but not the specifics -- since the frequency ranges are being auctioned, doesn't that imply a limitation that only the carriers who pay for the spectrum get to play? So how does an "unlocked" spectrum help?


    For example, if I have a given phone that can access the various sub-channels in the frequency, how do I take my service from one carrier to another, etc.? given that alot of the services are essentially thin client apps run from data on the carrier's backbone servers.

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
  14. Demand and supply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    "One example:... 'Internationally, Wi-Fi handsets have been available for some time,' Martin noted. 'But they are just beginning to roll out here.'""

    Is that because of lock-in, or just because there hasn't been enough demand for them in the states?

  15. Don't get to excited by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Whoever wins this spectrum has to provide ... truly open broadband network - one that will open the door to a lot of innovative services for consumers," Martin said in an interview Monday.

    What this would mean in practice: "You can use any wireless device and download any mobile broadband application, with no restrictions," Martin explained."
    Unless he makes "in practice" the official FCC rule, I can't imagine that the networks are going to anything other than provide network unlocked phones. Just because a phone is network unlocked doesn't mean it will not have shitty firmware that locks out features.

    Most Americans are not willing to pay the full price for a phone. As long as the networks have people hooked on subsidized phones, the phones will be feature locked down.
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Don't get to excited by lessermilton · · Score: 1

      So why don't they subsidize unlocked (read FOSS) phones? Cause heck! I'd jump to the first carrier that offered me that!

      Meh... but who am I kidding? Then there'd be no reason for me to sign up for another two-year contract, because my phone could easily ($50) be upgraded. Oh well!

      --
      I wish I had a witty .sig
    2. Re:Don't get to excited by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      Most Americans are not willing to pay the full price for a phone. As long as the networks have people hooked on subsidized phones, the phones will be feature locked down.

      Phones don't have to be locked down in order to be contract-subsidized. If a carrier can get someone to sign a two year contract with a $175 termination fee, they should have no problem putting $150 or so towards the cost of the phone. Hell, they should have no problem handing out a $150 cash signing bonus.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  16. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by cfulmer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What is your alternative choice for deciding who gets the spectrum?

    The most compelling reason to ditch NTSC is that the spectrum it occupies is very valuable, in part because it is not as impeded by obstructions as other frequencies. The switch to HDTV is a catalyst that provides an alternative. A portion of the money gained from the auction of the previous UHF/VFH space will be used for vouchers for consumers to buy conversion devices for their TVs. I suspect, though, that these will be mainly unused, as the large majority of TV viewers are on either cable or satellite, neither one of which will be directly affected.

  17. it ain't... sorry. by RingDev · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I believe he is actually concerned with the effects on other businesses the spectrum lock is having. He sites technological advancement and sales as his concern, not the well being of the people. He believes that there is more of a profit to be made by opening the door, between new competition, new sales, and new taxes. And I agree. As an added bonus, the American people might get to see some new technology and alternative wireless communication devices.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  18. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by CajunArson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OK, hold on, I think there is just a pinch of 'hate Bush no matter what' in your post. If none of the auctions were taking place, I could just as easily spin this as the Evil Bush administration staying in league with media giants to retain control over UHF and VHF spectrum that was being wasted (which it is in buckets by the way) and cut off from any and all new innovation. I could further decry the fact that the US was continuing to languish with the old NTSC transmission standard instead of moving into the 21st century with digital & HD standards, and how consumers were being hurt by the stifling entrenched interests that wanted to stop the growth of new technology. I have a question: If Hillary were auctioning off the spectrum would you still hate it, and if the Bush administration canceled the auction would you say it was a good idea?

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
  19. A cynical view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its probably easier for the feds to get their apps running on an unlocked phone... no need to convince Apple (or the courts) that it is a good idea.

  20. We need competition in mobile phones and homebrew by backslashdot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just like how there are hundreds of brands of PC's to choose from (this helps keep the price down, improve selection, and companies innovating) we need to have hundreds of brands of cell phones.

    We need to be able to home build cell phones. Personally I'd assemble myself a cell phone with a 3.5" (maybe only slightly higher) touchscreen 800 px wide display, 3G, Live Video Share and GPS. I'd run my own distro of Linux or OpenMoko on it.

  21. WTF by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I'd love for my iPhone to be unlocked, I am wondering what authority does the Constitution give the government to mandate unlocking.

    1. Re:WTF by iknownuttin · · Score: 1

      It's in the same part where it authorizes the existence of the FCC.

      --
      I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    2. Re:WTF by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Interstate commerce... since, you know, the cell phone companies are all national entities.

    3. Re:WTF by paulthomas · · Score: 1

      Which is? The commerce clause? I'm actually interested in knowing -- I'm not trying to be an ass.

    4. Re:WTF by Zcar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My (simplified) understanding is that the frequency spectrum is public property and the FCC is tasked with administering that property for the benefit of the public. The money paid is not so much a purchase of spectrum but purchase of a license to use a block of spectrum. The unlocked device restriction is a term of that license. The constitutional mandate probably comes from Congress's Article IV Section 3 powers to "dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States".

    5. Re:WTF by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 1

      Fine. Which part of the Constitution allows for an unelected entity such as the FCC to control radio waves?

    6. Re:WTF by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Ever bothered to actually read the Constitution? Or follow the varying interpretations over the years? I know, questioning the Constitution and the FCC gets you modded "insightful" on Slashdot, but in the real world it makes educated people look at you as an idiot.

      Anyhow; try:

      Article I, Section 8
      1. To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
      2. To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
      3. To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


      Has (IIRC) long been looked at as the basic enabling legislature for regulating commerce and communications in the US. Specific legislative authority for preventing monopolies (and trusts) also flows from this basic premise. Presumably, the authority to mandate unlocking will also, along with the Supreme Court decisions in re Ma Bell and attaching privately purchased and owned equipment to be attached to her networks. Unlocking is also just a further step from the ruling that prevented the telco's from holding your (cell) phone number hostage in their network.
  22. Not Far Enough by MBCook · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I like this idea quite a bit, I just don't think it's far enough. It shouldn't just be the new 700MHz spectrum. If you buy ANY new space, you should have to comply with this. If you USE any space you should have to comply. No locking cells to the carrier after Dec 31st, 2007. Not 2015, not 2010, THIS YEAR. Since this is just locking and it's not a problem over seas, they have no excuse why this couldn't be done.

    I'd also say contracts should be illegal (or at least termination fees) and ditto with subsidizing phones (you want to subsidize? Must be and instant rebate, none of this mail-in stuff). But I don't expect those to happen.

    I'll still be surprised if this was passed.

    But please, free the cell phones. Won't someone please think of the cell phones?

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  23. Locking is not the problem, FCC by dada21 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It sounds good -- use the force of the law to regulate businesses to provide unlocked devices "for the consumer's rights." But the idea of locking a device is irrelevant to this discussion, Mssrs. FCC, because it isn't the provision of locking a device that is anti-consumer.

    The best situation for any consumer of a given market product is competition -- the ability for newcomers to a given market to try to provide better features at a lower cost and a higher quality. This gives consumers choice. Locking a device is the equivalent of removing a feature from a product, but the idea of locking a device may allow a manufacturer to offer better service because they won't have to pay for the support of third party hardware and software. In the print industry, I get significant breaks on same-day warranty service if I buy my toner and ink from the manufacturer (generally at a fairly competitive price, these are industrial machines).

    So what is the anti-consumer situation here? Again, it isn't locking the device. The biggest anti-consumer provision in the communications market is also one that is anti-competition (amazing). It is called the Patent. In a market where almost every product is seemingly identical, we still see each product having patents or patents pending on the devices. Yes, the iPhone seems unique, but it really isn't. Apple just realized that the interface is more important than other features -- and they're proven correct so far in the short run. Yet the market is artificially disturbed because of the force of law (patents, copyrights, trademarks), and the FCC wants to patch the Congressional error by adding more regulation to the market?

    1. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      It's regulation, but it's fixing an ill that is essentially forced on users. At this level - with the barriers to entry in the market (i.e. spectrum costs, to start with) - the consumer has essentially zero leverage in contract negotiations. This simply prevents consumer lock in - generally considered a bad thing. Whine and complain all you want to about the USPTO, but this is neither an attemp to correct their ills, nor some attempt to fix congressional errors.

      If you want to provide fewer features, put fewer of them in the device to begin with. If you want to prevent your customers from taking your subsidized handset to another carrier, don's subsidize them.

      If nothing else, it will stop the rest of the world from laughing at (this new part) of our Byzantine mobile communication system.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      But since the FCC has pretty much zero say over patent reform, does that mean they should be precluded from doing anything at all, even if it is a minor relief?

      Or is patent reform just your hobbyhorse and you see everything from astride that creaky steed?

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    3. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by sholden · · Score: 1

      Because the FCC has complete control over patents, copyright, and trademarks.

    4. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by db32 · · Score: 1

      Just because noone seems to understand this, and people cry about patents all the time. Patents are not bad. The concept is terribly important, the practice however is a bit flawed in implementation.

      So...you develop some fancy wizbang gadget, brand new, totally innovative, breaking new barriors. The moment you sell the first one, MegaTechCorp will purchase one, use its highly paid engineers to disassemble it, maybe make a few 'enhancements', bundle it back up, mass market it, and totally screw you out of business. You will have sold 1 at incredible personal cost in R&D and MFG, MegaTechCorp will have bought 1, mass produced them, mass marketed them, and made millions. You on the other hand are left wimpering about how the rich have an unfair advantage because they can just snatch up the little guys inventions and call them their own and push the little guy out of business. Which ironically is what the primary complaint about patents is now...except if they go away the problem gets worse and becomes 100% legal. At least with the undestanding that patents are imporant there is some hope of fixing the patent system to allow fewer abuses.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    5. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by nine-times · · Score: 1

      If you want to prevent your customers from taking your subsidized handset to another carrier, don's subsidize them.

      I might be paranoid, but it seems to me that locking phones to a given carrier should be grounds to investigate the major carriers for anti-trust violations. Maybe I just don't get it, but the major benefit I see to this lock-in is for the other carriers, so I've always assumed that the carriers got together and agreed to lock phones in order to all benefit each other to the detriment of all consumers.

      What I mean is, there shouldn't really be any worry about customers taking the subsidized cell phones to other carriers. Think about it: if I run Verizon, why should it really bother me if one of my customers takes their subsidized phone to another carrier? If the customer has fulfilled his contract, then they've already paid off the subsidy. If he hasn't fulfilled his contract, then I've put terms in the contract saying that I can charge him a fee for breaking his contract, thereby recouping the money lost subsidizing the contract. Either way, I've lost nothing. Either way, the customer is free to leave and get phone service from another carrier. However, when the customer switches to the new carrier, that customer will need to pay the new carrier for their new phone, and also enter into a contract in order to subsidize the new phone. By signing on to a multi-year contract, that customer is now unable to switch back to Verizon if they become unhappy with the new carrier's service.

      So as the guy running Verizon, I realize that the main result of locking my phones to only work on my network is that, should my customers choose to leave, they will give my competitors more money, and they'll be barred from returning to Verizon service for multiple years. In many ways, it would be a competitive advantage to be the carrier that is selling unlocked phones while your competitors only sell locked phones. The chief reason not to do this would be if there were an agreement among carriers, however tacit, that none of them would do this because then all of them would have to, and then consumers wouldn't need to purchase as many phones.

      Oh well, it's probably just one of those situations where game theory could explain that it's in no ones best interest to actually compete. Still, it points out why you sometimes need government regulations specifically regarding monopolies and cartels. Capitalism only works when people compete, but often enough it's not in a company's best interest to actually try to be competitive.

    6. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It isn't the patent monopoly that is the problem here(that is a different problem)WIFi on a phone isn't patented neither is using you own apps.

      The problem is competition, or rather lack thereof. The US cell phone industry is an oligopoly. High barriers to entry ( FCC fees, network roll out costs, and limited spectrum) give these few big players the power to do just about whatever the hell they want. More players with full access to the network would solve this if consumers really do want the ability to use new features. Similar to broadband, it access and choice and competition that solve monopoly problems.

    7. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by syntaxglitch · · Score: 1

      So...you develop some fancy wizbang gadget, brand new, totally innovative, breaking new barriors. The moment you sell the first one, MegaTechCorp will purchase one, use its highly paid engineers to disassemble it, maybe make a few 'enhancements', bundle it back up, mass market it, and totally screw you out of business. You will have sold 1 at incredible personal cost in R&D and MFG, MegaTechCorp will have bought 1, mass produced them, mass marketed them, and made millions. You on the other hand are left wimpering about how the rich have an unfair advantage because they can just snatch up the little guys inventions and call them their own and push the little guy out of business. Which ironically is what the primary complaint about patents is now...except if they go away the problem gets worse and becomes 100% legal. At least with the undestanding that patents are imporant there is some hope of fixing the patent system to allow fewer abuses.

      Since when is MegaTechCorp that observant and efficient? The more likely scenario goes like this:

      You develop something new and innovative. You put it together, get some made, start selling them. MegaTechCorp doesn't even notice your puny business. You sell some more. MegaTechCorp notices now, but is heavily invested in their own solution and, given the massive inertia of large corporations, does nothing but spew marketing spin that your clever little gadget is lame (maybe it lacks wireless and has less space than a Nomad, who'd go for that?).

      Two years later you've carved out a modest chunk of the market before MegaTechCorp realizes they missed the boat and suddenly scrambles to get their lazy, overpaid corporate engineers to throw together a knockoff of yours. Their market dominance lets them force their way into the market, but your first mover advantage and higher quality from two years of experience lets you hold onto your share. Meanwhile ten KiloTechCorps churn out cheap imitations of the products from you and MegaTechCorp.

      Eventually you either grow bloated and bureaucratic yourself and lose to some new upstart, entrench yourself in a submarket and specialize heavily, become another MegaTechCorp yourself, or get bought out by GigaOverlordCorp who decided to buy their way into the market they just noticed exists (five years late).

      Note that nowhere in that scenario do patents come into play. Frankly, even without patents, if MegaTechCorp can out-innovate the upstart inventor chances are the idea wasn't really all that innovative in the first place.

    8. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by db32 · · Score: 1

      So your argument against this scenario is "big companies aren't good at making money on new gadgets, are too slow to steal inventions, and upstarts just replace the big slow companies anyways until they become big slow companies" Have you not been paying attention in the last, say, 10 years? Microsoft's entire business is built around stealing other peoples inventions. You seem to equate morally bankrupt corporate behavior with ineffective behavior, and that absolutely is not the case. That has got to be the most insane argument against patents I have ever heard.

      Oh, and by the way...unless you are doing the mfg yourself in your garage, you have to go to a third party. So you walk in with your shiney gadget's plans and an order for 50 of them. They realize "hey this is a neat gadget, I bet MegaTech would pay to mfg 5000 of them, lets give them a call". Once again, under the patentless system you are screwed again chum. Under a patentless system I imagine that would actually be standard practice, is for anyone involved in the mfg of damn near anything to auction off copies of the plans to generate more orders. Because so long as SOMEONE wants them built, the mfg folks win regardless of who is marketing the product. (well, ignoring that most of it would probably get shipped overseas and built by the poor for pennies a day while some fat bastard who didn't actually do anything other than agree that stealing your design could be profitable gets fatter dumber and happier)

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    9. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by syntaxglitch · · Score: 1

      So your argument against this scenario is "big companies aren't good at making money on new gadgets, are too slow to steal inventions, and upstarts just replace the big slow companies anyways until they become big slow companies" Have you not been paying attention in the last, say, 10 years? Microsoft's entire business is built around stealing other peoples inventions. You seem to equate morally bankrupt corporate behavior with ineffective behavior, and that absolutely is not the case. That has got to be the most insane argument against patents I have ever heard.

      Microsoft's business centers around maintaining a monopoly through network effects and muscling other people around with anticompetitive practices. Their "stealing other people's inventions" is, exactly as I said previously, typically done a day late and a dollar short. How long did it take them to realize the internet wasn't a passing fad? Microsoft's abusive (and successful) behaviors would change very little regardless of how many patents exist. I wish Microsoft WOULD steal other people's inventions more, maybe then their software wouldn't suck so much.

      In regard to the other point, you're leaving out the costs of actually promoting and distributing a new product, as well as the issue of customer relationship and support costs. Additionally, trademarked design elements and copyright on things like embedded software would prevent lazy duplication. It's still a nontrivial amount of effort that you often won't see out of large corporations until someone else has already proven an idea is viable.

    10. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by db32 · · Score: 1

      You are still comparing stealing inventions with and without patents in place to the system as it exists now with patents in place. Microsoft has paid out millions in fines and other such for stealing things, and you can point out a few choice stupid quotes and decisions but they have stolen FAR more early than they did coming late. There was that famous case of MS stealing the GUI from Apple who rightfully stole it from Xerox first. Think Microsoft winning that one might have something to do with current state of insane defensive patents on everything even down to how to make a mouse move on the screen?

      I think the patent system is terribly abused these days, but getting rid of altogether would only make the whole thing worse. It makes me sick to see fry cartons with patent pending numbers on them...its a fucking cardboard box meant to hold fries! There is nothing innovative about that in any way shape or form, and no ammount of 'its specially designed to' is going to convince me it was anything more than folding up some cardboard, using some glue, and stuffing greasy potato sticks in it. However, I think things like the transistor should be patentable (remember, patents are supposed to expire providing only a limited time monopoly).

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    11. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by syntaxglitch · · Score: 1

      I think the patent system is terribly abused these days, but getting rid of altogether would only make the whole thing worse.

      I do agree that patents are not an inherently bad idea. My disagreement is only that I think "no patents at all" would not be appreciably worse than the current mess and might be a bit better.

    12. Re:Locking is not the problem, FCC by db32 · · Score: 1

      Well I think the problem there is that you never hear about patents working correctly, you only ever hear about the assinine abuses of the system. I think by and large they work fairly well to keep things moving the way they should. No news is good news kinda thing.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  24. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

    Never mind that there's no compelling reason to ditch NTSC broadcasts, or that it will cost billions for consumers to convert their TVs to HD.

    Well, in theory the freed up spectrums might result in additional wireless services that consumers will want.
    I think it's also fair to say that there is no compelling reason to keep NTSC broadcasts, which is using technology over 50 years old. Consumers do not have to convert their TVs to HD. All they need do is buy a conversion box and Uncle Sam is supposed to subsidize the cost to those who will need them. I've heard talk of $50 vouchers being given, which should about cover it.

    I fail to see even one argument as to how keeping the spectrum will benefit anybody. Your post seems to be kind of a luddite thing.

  25. FCC - Lost Intrest in US a long time ago. by deweycheetham · · Score: 1

    Follow the Market Share, Money, Monopolies, and/or Political Mojo and see what happens in this case. I wonder which is in play this time?

  26. Actually, this struck me as pro-business in a way by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the auction grants exclusive rights, that means other businesses can't develop the spectrum even further. Sure, the consumers get extra gizmos, but it'll be other businesses that are making those gizmos to sell.

    Still, it does suggest a shift away from monopoly business practices and more towards competitive business practices. I did read that Republican money-raising efforts are floundering, so perhaps it's a way to either shake down the AT&Ts of the world, or get money from smaller businesses.

    It's a good thing I'm not that cynical.

  27. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Bellum+Aeternus · · Score: 1
    Oh god forbid, people may not be able to watch TV! Won't somebody think of the children?!!!

    NTSC is very old, wasteful technology. Once freed up, new technology will able to make much more efficient use of the same frequencies. Much like how digital mobiles are more efficient that the small car sized devices we had 15 years ago.

    --
    - I voted for Nintendo and against Bush
  28. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by RingDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Uhg, do we have to choose between the Republicrat and the Neo-Con? Can't we just get Nader or someone to drop a loaf on the spectrum and call it a day?

    In all seriousness though, spectrum auctions cut both ways. Getting rid of NTSC over UHF/VHF will open up tons of new opportunities. But at the same time the cost to each and every station has been millions of dollars. A lot of the smaller/NFP organizations (like PBS stations) have had a hell of a time pulling off the change over, and a number of stations are just closing rather than dealing with the financial risk. Tack on to that the direct cost to the consumer of HD tuners, converters, or new TVs, and the indirect cost through advertising and taxes. Personally, I agree with the auctions to some extent. I do not have the knowledge to make a well qualified statement on the decision, but there are many trade offs between licensed and open frequencies. Just imagine if you had to file with the FCC just to plug your WiFi router in. ;)

    And feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the initial move to retire NTSC start under Clinton's presidency?

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  29. Dada21 is not the problem, FCC. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The biggest anti-consumer provision in the communications market is also one that is anti-competition (amazing). It is called the Patent."

    *looks and sees who the poster is*

    *rolls eyes*

    Same song and dance with you dada21. Would it be safe to say you don't have a bit of IP to your name? If I was into conspiracies I'd wonder what's in it for you if your "utopia" came about? Not the one you'd think it will be.

    1. Re:Dada21 is not the problem, FCC. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Whereas everyone knows that "Anonymous Coward" owns lots of useful IP.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
  30. they only ACT evil by victorvodka · · Score: 1

    I know, republicans aren't evil. They only ACT that way. i know, republicans helped cnn and foxnews by making a war, and they helped those in armament factories by increasing defense spending. they also helped some people with large inheritances avoid paying taxes. But seriously, when was the last time a republican did anything that did any large group of people any long term good?

    --

    The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg

    1. Re:they only ACT evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But when has a Democrat done anything but raise taxes to benefit a special interest?

  31. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by em.a18 · · Score: 1

    There is a reason to ditch NTSC.. it's an incredibly inefficient way of transmitting video. I believe that HDTV can transmit the same image quality in 1/4 or 1/6 of the bandwidth dedicated to over-the-air NTSC video.

    And from an economic view.. auctions are very efficient. With all that unused spectrum, would you prefer to have more TV channels, or more (hopefully) interesting wireless services? Let the market decide.

    Now it's up to the regulators to figure out how to make the auction fair. I don't know how to do that part.

  32. What does this prove? by boyfaceddog · · Score: 1

    I am so ipressed by his integrity No all he needs to do is puts this idea through congress AND get the president to sign it....

    Oh, wait. That's right! This guy will be two years out of office before this is even a bill. He can demand anything he wants now, and so can any other department head becasue they won't be around to put it through congress.

    Gosh, I wonder what the FCC head will be doing AFTER he gets booted by the next pres. (or this one). Could it be consulting for some group/company that would benefit from open devices?

    Naw, that would just be jaded of me.

    --
    Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
    1. Re:What does this prove? by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 1
      The FCC doesn't have to wait - they can create new rules and have them go into effect without the direct consent of either the Legislative or Executive branch.

      The FCC is responsible to Congress and either house can advise the FCC through their Telecommunications subcommittees, can override any new or existing FCC rule or can even change the legislation that enables the FCC, but they are only involved in the process of creating new rules if they choose to be.

  33. if iPhone was truly open by victorvodka · · Score: 2, Interesting

    if iPhone was truly open I'd buy it as a PDA - i have no interest in using it as a phone. i like the touch screen interface and wifi - it would replace my laptop. but im not buying something that commits me to thousands of dollars worth of business to AT&T, a known monopolist (who, like the liquid metal terminator in T2, has reconstituted itself from its fragments).

    --

    The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg

  34. We Win! by Bellum+Aeternus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had given up on waiting for the day that something the US government did made sense. Looks like somebody does have a clue. Too bad lobbyist, and greed mongers won't ever let this idea see the light of day.

    --
    - I voted for Nintendo and against Bush
  35. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Phroggy · · Score: 1

    There are all kinds of useful things that could be done with the VHF spectrum, that can't be done now because it's being taken up by all those analog TV channels.

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  36. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by nine-times · · Score: 1

    Never mind that there's no compelling reason to ditch NTSC broadcasts

    There's a very good reason to ditch the NTSC broadcasts-- when all those broadcasts are being broadcast on another spectrum of frequencies, it's a waste of a very useful range of frequencies to continue the duplicate broadcasts. It may be that HD hasn't rolled out as quickly as many people hoped, and therefore it makes sense to delay "ditching" NTSC broadcasts, but that's been going on for years. They keep delaying it (for good reason), but eventually, when most people have upgraded their TVs and/or purchased new tuners, we ought to cease the old broadcasts.

    Part of the reason for all this is that we chose to put NTSC broadcasts (IANA expert, but so I've heard) on the frequencies they occupy specifically because they travel well through solid materials and get good penetration into buildings. These are very useful/valuable frequencies, and we should free them up for wireless digital communications if we can. It only makes sense. As to the "auction", I'm not sure whether it's good or bad. I don't know the ins and outs of regulating this stuff. Do we need to give control of the spectrum to specific large companies in order to develop ubiquitous wireless internet? Would it make more sense to make it more of a free-for-all like the 2.4 Ghz range used by WiFi? If so, does the FCC need to do anything in particular to keep people from interfering with each other?

    I ask these questions because I really don't know and I'm curious. I'd like to hear from someone who really knows what they're talking about. I really think that if there's one thing the FCC should be working on, it's pushing the agenda of getting high quality, high speed, open, wireless internet coverage throughout the entire country. And when I say "open" I don't necessarily mean "public" or "free" (as in beer), but it should at least be an open standard for wireless data.

  37. taxes: bring 'em on by victorvodka · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    We don't pay enough taxes in this country. Taxes are part of your contract for living in a civilized society. Everyone always bitches about their taxes but then when a hurricane wipes out their house and they have no insurance - waaaaa! You want Uncle Sam to fix your boo-boo. I'd gladly pay more taxes to have a completely socialized medical system in this country and not to have to keep a sterile surgical suite and surgical implements to reattach my own limbs next to my power tools.

    --

    The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg

    1. Re:taxes: bring 'em on by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "We don't pay enough taxes in this country."

      I pay PLENTY of taxes. If approx. 30% of what I make isn't enough (not even factoring in double taxation such as sales tax paid with income taxed money), then they need to cut spending.

      Really now...that is ENOUGH!.

      "Everyone always bitches about their taxes but then when a hurricane wipes out their house and they have no insurance - waaaaa! You want Uncle Sam to fix your boo-boo."

      Nope...I live in NOLA. While I feel bad for the people that lost their homes and had no insurance, I see no reason to bail them out. If they were stupid enough to be living in a well known "danger of flooding" area and didn't have insurance, well, you deserve what you got. There has to be a measure of personal responsibility for your actions here. Maybe you'll learn next time.

      "I'd gladly pay more taxes to have a completely socialized medical system in this country..."

      I have no problem with the medical system in the country really...except I side with the Dr.'s about how the bean counters and lawyers have really screwed things up and force the Dr's to CYA on everything. My only gripe is, that the insurance companies aren't forced to accept everyone. If you're not on a group plan...it is very difficult to buy insurance. I could afford pretty much any premiums they throw at me...but, have had difficulty in the ONE area that is a risk factor I have...high triglycerides. Other than those...no problems at all. But, it is very difficult to find even minimal, catastrophic insurance for many people. And you have to have at least that before you can open a HSA to save your own medical dollars tax free.

      Ok...wandering way off the thread now.....

      :-)

      But, seriously....if they can't get by with 20%-30% of most people's income, they are seriously misspending money.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:taxes: bring 'em on by OrangeCowHide · · Score: 1

      Taxes are part of your contract for living in a civilized society.
      What contract? I didn't sign any contract. When my house is destroyed by a hurricane, I do not want/expect anyone excluding family to help me out. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. Do you know who I sued when my mother died of a brain hemorrhage caused by the medicine used to treat her for a heart attack after she smoked 2 - 3 packs a day for 40 years? No one. That's right; it wasn't the doctor's fault, and it wasn't the tobacco companies' fault. I am sorry that a lot of people like you don't believe in personal responsibility, but I didn't sign any contract, and nobody owes me a life because I was born.
      --
      Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains. - Evilest Doe
    3. Re:taxes: bring 'em on by BgJonson79 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, 'cause Uncle Sam always spends our tax money to wisely and efficiently.

      --

      There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.

  38. Patents , Copyright, and trademarks are not the .. by iknownuttin · · Score: 1
    problem.

    The biggest anti-consumer provision in the communications market is also one that is anti-competition (amazing). It is called the Patent.

    That is complete nonsense.

    Patents and Copyrights allow creators to make a living. If I invest time and money into an invention, I want to profit from it. I don't want someone else taking my ideas and ruining any chance I have of making money and getting a decent return on my investment. Eliminating patents and copyright will greatly reduce or even eliminate the ability to profit from it resulting in innovation halting completely. Unfortunately here on /., everyone focuses on the abusers of the system and not on the folks who created something and added value to society.

    Without Trademarks, there would be nothing stopping me from opening up the Disney Pornography store.

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
  39. 5 Years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how long before an official unlocked iPhone appears?

    5 long years

  40. Re:Patents , Copyright, and trademarks are not the by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

    Without Trademarks, there would be nothing stopping me from opening up the Disney Pornography store. Unfortunately, that does nothing to stop people from drawing it.
    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  41. To a certain extent by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem is that specific models are designed so that, even if you could unlock them, certain features will only work with a specific carrier. Even if you could buy an unlocked iPhone for example, most of its features are only going to work with AT&T.

    That may be true to a certain extent, but not totally true. For example the inability to install J2ME apps straight from your computer and the inability to use Bluetooth are examples of elements that are limitations that are imposed limitations and not technology limitations. There are some features that are actually provided by the network and can be added to any phone. For example when I traveled to New Zealand I had got my cellphone unlocked in Singapore and was using a Vodaphone pay as you go SIM. I suddenly found that you get a special Vodaphone sub menu with a whole bunch of extras.

    In many ways I support the move by the FCC, since it would help change the business method of cell phone carriers. It would also highlight the limitations of any given carrier, instead of making it seem to be the limitations of the cell phone. Sure it would mean that cell phone carriers would have to compete on both wireless packages and wireless phone prices, but if that helps drive the market then even better. In fact having the cell phone manufacturers play a more active role in the support of their phones would also be a welcome change, since delegating this to the carriers is usually just asking for trouble.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:To a certain extent by cbhacking · · Score: 1
      As somebody who recently traveled to south-ease Asia, you are exactly correct. Heck, in one airport (Bangkok?) I saw a sign advertising a particular carrier, with the instructions: Pick up a SIM from the desk, then select the network you want to connect to based on the features! They not only assumed that any phone could use their SIMs (mine couldn't, of course... very few SIMS would work, although I finally found a few) but they had no concept of phone service contracts that lock you in and bill you monthly. Instead, you go into any 7-Eleven (yes, they have them) and on the back wall will be hundreds of phone refill kits. Buy one for the network you want to use, follow the simple instructions, and viola! you have paid for your cell cervice. Oh, and yes, my (very limited T-Mobile branded) phone supported this novel method of payment, including the features to report how much money is remaining.

      Imagine that in the USA:

      Need faster mobile web browsing? Grab a T-Mobile SIM from the table beneath this sign, put it in your phone, and select T-Mobile Data Plus network! Only 99 cents per megabyte!

      SIM comes preloaded with 2 dollars. Pick up refill kits at over 100 thousand locations, including major convenience stores.
      Of course, for those who want something other than data speed, they would connect to a different network or use a different provider altogether; the SIM cards are the next best thing to free and use the Refill cards to only buy as much service as you need.
      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  42. This really is not unexpected by jskline · · Score: 0

    The fact is that there hasn't been anything really "invented" in this country for years, probably going back to the 60's or 70's. Part of the problem is that here, everything *must* have a profitability schedule attached to it and it's return on investment must be steep and fast or its killed off. Free-Market idealogical thinking is responsible for this. I thought there was supposed to be a balance with this against a worth to the populous as a whole, but I guess something got lost in the translation somewhere.

    Hence this is why a lot of stuff is invented elsewhere and even if something is invented here, it ultimately doesn't come here until much later after these people start realizing whats going on in Europe and other parts of the planet, and decide to bring it here.

    I don't care if the iPhone sold for $100, I would not touch it because it's *locked* into AT&T. Sorry but I am for freedom of choice and this doesn't give me that.

    --
    All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
    1. Re:This really is not unexpected by Celandro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh yes, nothing has been invented in this country for years which is why you are posting this from a US machine with US components on a US website, hosted on machines sold by a US company, with a cpu made by a US company likely running an OS created by a US company.

      Computers and the internet are the 2 greatest inventions in the last 100 years and both are the fruits of the US military/industrial complex. In addition, the innovations and progress in the field is faster than any other field in the history of the world.

      There is plenty of things wrong with the US, there is no need to resort to hyperbole.

    2. Re:This really is not unexpected by Pendersempai · · Score: 1

      Computers and the internet are the 2 greatest inventions in the last 100 years
      Why must you dilute the quality of your post with such exaggeration? Antibiotics, cars, airplanes, and plastic are all much more important than computers or the internet.
    3. Re:This really is not unexpected by Celandro · · Score: 1

      I think the fact that all new advances in the fields of antibiotics, cars, airplanes and plastics are created by, implemented by or are implementations of computers and/or the internet shows which is more important.

      In addition I said last 100 years...
      Antibiotics specifically penicillin is 1897 (not counting home remedies which is 2500BC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic
      Gas powered automobiles 1885 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile
      First flying model Airplanes 1803, uncontrolled human flight 1890 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airplane
      Rubber, celluloid (what ping pong balls are made of) and Rayon all pre 1900 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic

      Programmable, binary, turing complete computers 1940s (census adding machine was pre 1900 but I think computer requires more than that)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer
      Internet 1960s

  43. Devil's Advocate by snilloc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    So, the US market just released the Holy-friggin'-grail Jesus phone, the iPhone, and the problem is lack of innovation?

    Sorry, but what allows Apple to bring the iPhone to market is Apple's ability to lock-in with AT&T in order to maximize profits for a 5 year clip. Without lock-in, there wouldn't be an iPhone, or it would be much more expensive (even after you factor out the ATT contract).

    1. Re:Devil's Advocate by ekimminau · · Score: 1

      You forgot the most important point of the iPhone. Apples brillance decided it should be manufactured in China and for their brillance, the Chinese version is already available from your nearest web browser. I hope 90% of their sales goes directly to the chinese government owned business that retains third shift production and is going to sell the EXACT same product for 50% of the cost. I for one am waiting for them to open their shopping cart to US buyers.

      http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech -gadget/another-iphone-clone-surfaces

      A company already selling them:
      http://www.meizume.com/

      And another for $120.00 each in lots of 100:
      http://www.xinyudacn.com/sdp/306937/4/pl-116 8790/0-586144.html

      The current pricing for the 4, 8 and 16GB models are 2000, 2500 and 3500 CNY respectively. That is approximately 260, 330 and 460 $USD.

      Or the current price for one on UK ebay is $19.99:
      http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T718-Screen-3-5-Mp3 -Mp4-bothSIMin-touchscreen-Unlo_W0QQitemZ330143912 466QQcmdZViewItem

      --
      Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
    2. Re:Devil's Advocate by Dusty00 · · Score: 1

      The iPhone isn't really very innovative. It doesn't really bring much new to the market. Play music, PDA/Phone's have done that for quite a while. Same for video. The iPhone is about one thing really, marketing. Apple's name is trendy so they take existing features and slap their own look, feel and spin on it.

      Face it. "From Apple, the company who brought you the iPod here's the iPhone! Now you can ..." is a lot more exciting than "From HP, the company that brough you printers here's the hpPhone! Now you can ..."

    3. Re:Devil's Advocate by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      My brother-in-law got one, and it's badass! Not only is the phone beautiful, but very well constructed. The amazing part is how friggin easy it is to use regardless of the fact it's packed with features and gizmos.

      I *really* want one for myself. But damn, i'm stuck with Verizon (though they do have the best network) :(

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  44. Wow by maz2331 · · Score: 1

    All I can say is "WOW!" I've long been an advocate of unlocked interfaces. Actually, if I had my way, every product sold that has any ability to be "connected" to something else would be REQUIRED to fully and completely document any and all interfaces, API's, and/or file formats. We really need to end this current paradigm of creating lock-in and lock-out of end users' own property and data under the guise of "protecting intellectual property," which doesn't actually protect anything other than preventing an aftermarket and forcing updates at the vendor's whim. I'm not asking to open-source the internals of a device or software product, but providing interfacing information isn't too much to ask. The line the law SHOULD draw is at the interface. Inside the device is the vendor's territory, but outside is the customer's. Violation of this requirement should result in an injunction preventing any sale of the device or product until compliance is achieved, with a daily fine equal to the highest sales revenue for the product in question. Note that this will not allow infringements of patents or copyrights of the device, but will end the days of not being able to use some device with some other device. No more lockout of aftermarket printer cartridges, or devices that can't be made to work with Linux.

    1. Re:Wow by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Interesting idea, but what do you do about copycat products? Let's say Palm creates a new, open, unlocked phone that one-ups the iPhone. Today, what would stop a company in China from taking all that documentation and producing an identical product based on that information?

      Nothing, that's what would stop them. They would immediately benefit from any R & D that Palm put into the product and be able to copy it exactly. End result would be the Chinese copy could be sold at a much lower price. Great for consumers, really really bad for Palm. Pretty much this would put them out of business, leaving the copycat company producing the product. Of course, they wouldn't be able to produce a follow-on because they "stole" the plans for the original.

    2. Re:Wow by eWarz · · Score: 1

      patents and copyright infringement. Laws exist in the US to protect people like palm.

    3. Re:Wow by maz2331 · · Score: 1

      Again, my point is NOT to force opening the internals to the device, just the interface. There is a very "bright line" there (as the legal types like to say) between the internal function and design and its interaction with the outside world. Nothing in an interface reveals how the thing achieves its functionality. For example, let's say we have a printer. Knowing that if we send the "Form Feed" character causes it to spit out a page does NOT tell us how the printer's motors and microcontrollers are wired up and programmed. Not revealing this information means that the printer may only work with the manufacturer's client software, which was developed in conjunction with Boise-Cascade paper sponsorship and always sends a form feed after every 10 lines of text. You would be powerless to write your own driver to get around the paper waste. More real-world examples are graphics cards. It is well nigh impossible to get any sort of 3D acceleration to work with newer graphics cards unless you are running Windows. The manufacturers release neither drivers nor specifications for others to code one, so the owner of the card is forced to either discard the product or pony up for a copy of Windows. For programmers, think of the difference between a .C file and a .H header. Headers are interfaces that tell you how to CALL the functions defined in the .C file. They contain none of the actual implementation. The key point is to stop the lock-in and lock-out paradigm that is very common nowadays.

  45. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    cost billions for consumers to convert their TVs to HD. Those auction costs eventually get passed on to the consumers of those products,

    If one opts to not HAVE a new HD TV, how shall the masses obtain their soma?

  46. Hillary vs. Bush by Scareduck · · Score: 1

    If Hillary were auctioning off the spectrum would you still hate it, and if the Bush administration canceled the auction would you say it was a good idea?
    I didn't think they were a good idea when (Bill) Clinton was in office. I don't think they're a good idea now.
    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

  47. Oh, fooey by Scareduck · · Score: 1

    Another of the "taxes are part of your contract for living in a civilized society" mavens. So, if we all paid 100% of our wages to the state, would that make us all sufficiently pious for you? What level is "enough"? Government exists to serve the people, not the other way around. The "more taxes" crowd forgets this, forgets the abuses that more money collected by the state engenders: more wars (foreign and domestic — think of the War On [Some] Drugs), more secret programs, more spying on citizens, etc. Enough. E-fargin'-nuff.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

  48. Re:Patents , Copyright, and trademarks are not the by nine-times · · Score: 1

    Without Trademarks, there would be nothing stopping me from opening up the Disney Pornography store.

    I guess trademarks do have some unfortunate consequences.

  49. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Otterley · · Score: 1

    Spectrum scarcity is a fallacy whose roots based on ancient technology. Scientists and engineers who understand radio technologies invented but a few years after the FCC was established by Congress in 1934 (i.e. UWB and spread spectrum frequency hopping) know this. See, e.g, How wireless networks scale: the illusion of spectrum scarcity. The fact is, everyone who wanted to could use the airwaves free of interference if such technologies were properly implemented.

    The problem is that Congress, now guaranteed a new source of revenue to spend on things like foolish wars and bridges to nowhere without direct taxes through the auction process, will scream bloody murder if the FCC tries to undo what it has done.

  50. 700Mhz Pffft by T00lman · · Score: 2, Funny

    3300 hz ought to be enough for anyone.

    --
    0x7279727972797279
  51. I don't like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why is the FCC telling businesses what they can or can not do with their phone offerings?

    Not that I'm complaining but this is the USA and I don't think its unreasonable to allow the market rather than government to dictate these kinds of additudes. Some providers may have good reasons in terms of certifying devices to play nice on their network.

    Ultimately I can't imagine this being a bad thing for us consumers but do the ends justify the means?

    Now whats with Sprint not allowing me to use any of the new kyocera offerings? Its really starting to piss me off.

    1. Re:I don't like this by dbcad7 · · Score: 1

      Locking is not half the problems that the whole cdma/gsm thing causes.
      I think it was about 6 or 7 years ago that cingular and ATT were among a group of cellphone providers to switch from cdma to GSM, which given that the rest of the world uses it, only makes sense to me from a manufacturing sense. If your Apple selling your phone worldwide, then it makes even more sense to go with a GSM phone. (although I am sure they could have made it muti for some extra cost)

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
  52. You fail the common sense test. by raehl · · Score: 1

    If spectrum were, indeed, not scarce, then the companies that owned spectrum already would deploy whatever technology is available to more effectively use spectrum instead of paying billions of dollars to get access to more of it.

    The price paid for the spectrum indicates that it must be scarce. If it wasn't scarce, nobody would be paying big dollars for it.

    1. Re:You fail the common sense test. by Otterley · · Score: 1

      No, the reason that people pay for spectrum is because the FCC makes it artificially scarce through its enforcement of regulation and spectrum management. As I'm sure you know, no device is permitted to transmit a radio signal without a license from the FCC. In addition, as it is currently deployed, for any given "application" (as defined by the FCC), permission to use the spectrum is confined to very small bands of the spectrum.

      The reason for this is that nearly 100 years ago, radios were primitive and could not hop all over the spectrum. Instead, they had (and continue to have) fixed tuning. Modern radios don't need to do that; instead, they can broadcast all over the spectrum, tuned to a particular frequency for a very very short amount of time (such that interference on another channel would hardly be noticeable).

      The FCC has not changed with technology, and so it continues to reserve spectrum on a band-allocated basis, where no one but the licensee(s) for that particular band are permitted to use it. So, it is the FCC, not technology, that makes bandwidth scarce. Thus, would-be licensees are forced to compete (formerly on service, now on price) to obtain a license. And, contrary to your assertions, licensees (don't call them owners, since it's a public resource and the licenses are revocable) can and do deploy whatever technology is available to make more efficient use of their allocation. How else could the phone companies have rolled out 3G mobile networks?

    2. Re:You fail the common sense test. by Dravik · · Score: 1

      What you seem to be missing is the effect on noise levels. If you remove all the band restrictions and mandate everyone transmit using spread spectrum technology the RF noise level would rise so high that nothing would continue to be functional.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    3. Re:You fail the common sense test. by Otterley · · Score: 1

      Citation?

    4. Re:You fail the common sense test. by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      That could be true, but there's also a very good argument that - given the current population density and the inverse square law - the RF resources are enough for everyone to just use it without excessive interference.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  53. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

    What is your alternative choice for deciding who gets the spectrum?

    I'm not the GP, but I'll attempt an answer anyway.

    One solution would be to allocate spectrum in the same way as land is already allocated; namely, homesteading and contractual transfer (i.e. private ownership). Anyone can transmit whatever they want, provided it doesn't interfere with the reception of an existing signal (or cause other side effects, e.g. cancer). Interference at a historical reception point is treated as a trespass against both the owner of the transmitter and the owner of the receiver; any disputes over ownership fall under the jurisdiction of the civil court system.

    --
    "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  54. iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He probably wants an iPhone and doesn't want to go through AT&T.

  55. Except those are windows devices by geekoid · · Score: 1

    and not iPhone. The video I've seen from them are not touch screen, you use a stylus, and they don't have finger gestures.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  56. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wonderful. Rich companies can squat spectrum by transmitting junk just to "be there" and own it forever. Moreover, any little guys can get mowed over by any company willing to spend more money in litigation than the little guy can afford.

    That's a system that will be sure to serve the interests of the public.

  57. I wish I had mode points ... by Bearpaw · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ... although one could say that it's not so much that one should distrust the government, but instead be able to apply the "trust, but verify" approach.

    The double threat of the current Admin is that not only have they repeatedly shown themselves to be not worthy of trust, they've gone to unprecedented lengths to block verification as much as possible.

  58. NTSC sucks by Skapare · · Score: 1

    There plenty of compelling reason to ditch NTSC. There has been for decades. It's only in the past several years that a substantially better approach is available. ATSC (as well as DVB where that is used) allows the spectrum to be more efficiently used. If you look at a spectrum analyzer plot of an NTSC signal in a 6 MHz channel, it's totally dominated by the carrier that is 1.25 MHz above the lower edge of the channel. Video information looks like some grass growing along the bottom edge (especially if you use one with a green colored scope). There's a small blip and fuzzy area around the color subcarrier 4.829545 MHz above the lower edge. And finally, you can see a bit of the audio subcarrier poking its head above ground at 5.75 MHz above the lower edge. Most of the power in transmitting is wasted in the carriers that really carry nothing. Real information is in the sidebands, which are spread out but don't have any redundancy. Contrast that with ATSC which looks like the grass has grown to a forest (that's all information) and widened to nearly fill out the entire 6 MHz channel. Look closely where the forest slopes down to the lower edge and you can see a small blip down near the ground level for the pilot carrier (which is weaker than all the information signals). That's really the 8-VSB modulation taking place. DVB's COFDM is not much different (the forest of frequencies is a little flatter but the total waveform is a little more bumpy). It's an efficient way to carrier information over a fixed RF channel. That combined with MPEG compression, gives you high definition, extra program subchannels, and extended range for the same power level (in the USA, digital power levels will be lower so stations end up with about the same coverage as they had in analog).

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  59. Re:#irc.trooltalk.com by ADHDYoshi · · Score: 0

    That was the BEST THING I've ever read. Ever.

  60. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Jott42 · · Score: 1

    Pectrum scarcity is only a fallacy if you are prepared to exchange every radio transmitter and reciver with one top-of-the line model, which will be much more expensive, considerably larger and have a very high power consumption, compared to a typical FM-radio or cellphone. And then you will still have to solve the hidden-node problem , which seems to be a very hard one.... Spectrum scarcity is very much a reality yesterday, today and will still be tomorrow, if you look at a realistic scenarios.

  61. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow! So someone figured out why cell phones and wireless services in the US suck? Amazing...

  62. Wow by webheaded · · Score: 1

    Someone in our government made a rational decision that actually helps us? I'm actually pretty impressed by this.

    --
    "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
  63. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by feedmetrolls · · Score: 0

    it will cost billions for consumers to convert their TVs to HD.

    Actually, this loss of VHF/UHF only applies to those who still use an antenna. Anyone using satellite, digital cable, or even basic cable will not be affected, as the signal is already digital. If anyone does use an antenna, however, he/she can buy a set-top box to get a digital signal on any normal TV. No need to convert to HD, or spend billions.

    --
    You are reading a sig. Cancel or allow?
  64. Paving the way for cognitive radio... by DeuceTre · · Score: 1

    Cognitive radio is considered the future of spectrum licensing and both the IEEE and FCC agree on this. It was discovered some time ago that spectrum usage varies in both space and time and is often wasted. Even in a metropolitan area many bands are unused up to 85% of the time. With the advent of software define radio (such as the popular GNU Radio) it is now possible for a wireless device to "sense" bands of little spectrum activity and adjust internal parameters (i.e. modulation type, channel coding, Nyquist pulse shape, etc.) and adaptively maximize bandwidth utilization, at least in theory. The engineering is difficult and considered to be the holy grail of communications by many.

    What this means, in a nutshell, is that in the future it will be possible to completely open up the spectrum and charge commercial users in a pay-by-usage model, like the internet. Once the problems with cognitive radio were solved, this would require a simple licensing scheme (think unique FCC identifier in the packet header) and new layer 2-1 protocols.

    If you're interested, more info can be found at: (IEEE info center) www.ieeep1900.org/crinfo (FCC workshop) www.fcc.gov/oet/cognitiveradio/ (Scientific American article) www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&art icleID=000C7B72-2374-13F6-A37483414B7F0000

    For a more technical discussion, refer to Mitola's PhD thesis (where the term "cognitive radio" was coined): www.it.kth.se/~jmitola/Mitola_Dissertation8_Inte grated.pdf

    (Note: this is a repost of mine but it seemed applicable and I'm lazy)

  65. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

    A portion of the money gained from the auction of the previous UHF/VFH space will be used for vouchers for consumers to buy conversion devices for their TVs.

    Wait a second... you think it's reasonable to auction off a monopoly on a valuable public resource to one group of companies, and then to justify it by committing to spending a chunk of the profits to subsidize another related group of companies.

    How about this: Subsidies and government granted monopolies are terrible for both the free market and for overall social welfare. Let's do neither.

    --
    -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  66. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

    And from an economic view.. auctions are very efficient.

    That's only true if you're dealing with goods in a free market - which isn't the case here. Instead, this is auctioning off government granted monopolies in a situation where corporations with existing government granted monopolies are allowed to bid.

    Once government granted monopolies are involved, you're well away from "economically efficient" (or even "free market").

    --
    -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  67. Re:Patents , Copyright, and trademarks are not the by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

    Without Trademarks, there would be nothing stopping me from opening up the Disney Pornography store.

    That's nice. I haven't heard anyone argue against Trademarks in a while. In fact, it seems that trademarks are a good idea simply because impersonating someone else is fraudulent.

    Now, the completely unrelated issue of patents is less obvious.

    Patents (...) allow creators to make a living. If I invest time and money into an invention, I want to profit from it. I don't want someone else taking my ideas and ruining any chance I have of making money and getting a decent return on my investment.

    That's nice. I want a pony. As far as I can tell, what I want is more reasonable than what you want - giving me a pony wouldn't drastically warp the economy in favor of large corporate monopolists.

    The argument for patents is based on a social tradeoff, the story being something like this: "If we grant an inventor a short-term monopoly on their invention, that will encourage other inventors to invent useful things". The problem is that this policy has a number of unintended side effects, some of which have drastically larger economic impacts than the incentive to invent - negative economic impacts.

    Read these for the argument in some detail:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_antico mmons
    http://members.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html

    --
    -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  68. Obligatory by DoctorFrog · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new consumer-friendly overlords.

  69. OOPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like the telcos forgot to send Martin his monthly stipend.

  70. Re:If he were really interested in helping consume by cfulmer · · Score: 1

    Not what I said. I was replying to the comment that millions of people would be forced to buy new TVs or converters. Personally, I think the converters are a huge boondoggle.

    I don't see anything wrong with auctioning off spectrum, especially when you compare it to the way that the government used to do it, by holding individual licensing hearings for each broadcaster, trying (and failing abysmally) to make sure that the broadcasters were using the spectrum for the public good. By treating the spectrum as property, they've allowed the free market to work.

    They could have just given rights to the spectrum away and achieved the same end. The difference, though, is that by auctioning it off, the wad of cash goes to the government and not to the people they initially give the spectrum to.

  71. Save that nonsense by dharbee · · Score: 1

    Every time one of you socialized medicine, more taxes buffoons pipes up, I have to ask, what government run programs aren't bloated messes run by incompetents?

    And you want your health care run by these people? You genuinely want a bureaucrat in charge of when and how you recieve your medical care? HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE DMV?

    How fucking stupid are you?

    1. Re:Save that nonsense by victorvodka · · Score: 1

      so then we privatize to make it all better because the free market fucking rocks, and then we get Halliburton, Black Water Security, and corporatocracy, a proto-fascist condition that leads to a Chile-style dictatorship of the wealthy. Oh yeah, I suppose you think our privatized medical system is "the very best on the planet." What fucking planet do you live on?

      --

      The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg

  72. I still disagree. by iknownuttin · · Score: 1
    Interesting articles - I've heard those stories before and heard of some more that'll make you really hate the patent system. But, in the grand scheme of things, they are very rare instances and unfortunately, the successes of the patent system are being ignored. I agree, there are some things that need to be fixed, but to throw out the patent system completely would have its own unintended consequences other than innovation being greatly reduced.

    I know a few inventors myself, and if they didn't have any protection from the patent system and the grounds to sue the "large corporate monopolists" when or if they do steal their idea, they wouldn't be inventing. Sure, they are some altruistic folks out their who would innovate for the sake of humanity (IIRC, the inventor of the kidney dialysis machine gave his idea away.), but then again, without the resources to spend the time without pay, I might add, and the associated costs with development, it really isn't worth it unless there was some payoff at the end (Some of these guys run up huge amounts of debt!). And, yes, patents aid in achieving that.

    You are so focused on the big corps, that you've lost sight of the small inventors, writers, entrepreneurs who use the patent system to make sure that they are not trampled by the big guys. Without IP law, what would prevent the big guys from stealing your work and profiting of it as your own? I have a problem with that.

    I'm ignoring the pony comment.

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    1. Re:I still disagree. by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      You are so focused on the big corps, that you've lost sight of the small inventors, writers, entrepreneurs who use the patent system to make sure that they are not trampled by the big guys. Without IP law, what would prevent the big guys from stealing your work and profiting of it as your own? I have a problem with that.

      Again, the simple fact that an inventor likes the power that a patent gives them is irrelevant to the public policy decision. In order to convince me that patents were a good idea, you'd need to show that the beneficial effects of patents measurably outweighed the detrimental effects. As far as I can tell, the measurable benefits are mostly a scenario that doesn't work (small inventor uses patents to bully large corporation - in reality, the large corporation makes patent counterclaims).

      As for your anecdotes about inventor friends, I'll have to counter with my own anecdote: I am personally an inventor, with an active patent application as we speak. That fact might help me make some small amount of money, but I'd still much rather be inventing in a world where I don't have to worry about other people's patents on every little thing rather than a world where I get a patent.

      Here's the strong version of the anti-patent argument: http://fare.tunes.org/articles/patents.html

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      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  73. ooooooh 30%! by victorvodka · · Score: 1

    Do you drive on roads? Do you expect the fires consuming your house to be extinguished? Did you go to a public school? Do you expect Uncle Sam to keep Osama bin Butthead from blowing up your shopping mall? Somebody has to pay the folks who drive firetrucks, teach kids, pave roads, fix bridges, fight wars for oil, tap your phone, read your mail, sniff your baggage for marijuana, and look through your packages for primo Israeli ecstasy. That's 30% you won't spend on a stupid quad-core Pentium or an unnecessarily large SUV.

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    The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg

  74. Apparently, you're very fucking stupid by dharbee · · Score: 0, Troll

    "What fucking planet do you live on?"

    I live on the planet where assigning positions to people when they haven't taken them on themselves is know as "the straw man" fallacy. You just used it. You happen to live here too.

    As to your points, you did nothing to refute me. I stated support for not one of the positions you attempted to foist on me, so why do you think you said anything of value here? Government runs things badly. There is no disagreement, so fabricating an argument to use against me was your only shot, and it failed. You know I'm right, that's why you avoided my point and went straight to fallacy.

    I guess the answer to my original question is "You're very fucking stupid".

  75. OK - Do I get it? by iknownuttin · · Score: 1
    As for your anecdotes about inventor friends, I'll have to counter with my own anecdote: I am personally an inventor, with an active patent application as we speak. That fact might help me make some small amount of money, but I'd still much rather be inventing in a world where I don't have to worry about other people's patents on every little thing rather than a world where I get a patent.

    I think I get you now: You want to create and make money yourself without having to worry about stepping on someone else's toes and getting sued for more than your investment.

    Am I right?

    If I am, then I get your argument and it is an intriguing one. I have to admit.

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    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.