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Microsoft Fracturing the Open-Source Community
TechGeek sends us to eWeek, where Mark Shuttleworth is quoted to the effect that Microsoft has succeeded in fracturing the Linux and open-source community with its patent indemnity agreements. Quoting: "Microsoft's strategy was to drive a wedge into the open-source community and unsettle the marketplace, Shuttleworth said. He also took issue with the Redmond, Wash., software maker for not disclosing the 235 of its patents it claims are being violated by Linux and other open-source software. 'That's extortion and we should call it what it is,' he said." Shuttleworth added, "I don't think this will end well for the companies that slipped up and went down that road."
Dear Mr. Gates: Bring it. Your Loving - OSS Community
Microsoft forked the Open Source Community. Motherforkers.
Ubuntu will go on. SuSE will go on. Redhat will go on. Microsoft will go on.
Extortion. That's what I've been saying all along.
I think what the open source community needs is a patent troll. Hey, SCO's looking to get bought out about now, huh? Maybe with the help of our billionaire friend here and some help from IBM, we could buy SCO and then turn Microsoft's dog against it. That's right. Have SCO sue Microsoft for patent infringement. And, oh, yeah, didn't SCO make some little known Linux distro? Maybe we could taunt them into countersuing and they'd be forced to reveal at least some of those supposed '235 patents'.
Unless it's all complete BS, like I've been saying all along...
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The Linux Community was quite capable of indulging in ridiculously petty schisms, flamewars, arguments and
bickering before Microsoft got involved. Ever since someone noticed the GPL and BSD licenses were different, there's been 3000GW of heat produced by zealots and pragmatists alike (and almost no light).
This is nothing new. Haven't you ever read debian-legal?
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
I generally think that the open-source community does this fine without anyone's help. Microsoft saw the opportunity to use it's weakness and exploited it.
Welcome to capitolism.
All I know to say is that when Dr. Faust made his deal with the devil it didn't work out well for him either. Faust
load "$",8,1
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
One problem that the OSS community suffers from is that there are many licensing forms, and that some are in conflict with what's suitable for some end-users. It is also a challenge to make money from OSS solutions unless you have a good model available. And there are a large number of OSS projects that are sponsored in one way or another.
Anyway - one must recognize that the view of having source code as a valuable asset is about to decay. The source code is just a tool - like a hammer or a screwdriver - that allows users to manage their information. The code in itself is useful to some extent, but the knowledge of how to use it us far more important - and here it's possible to make money even in the future.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
yea? this is a "community" that argues over everything as it is, just look at all the "fractures" over KDE vs. Gnome...
Check out last year's comment I made on the subject. The whole thing was done just to make us have arguments. Can we learn from history, so as not to repeat it?
Divide and conquer is an age old tactic. Open Source is meant to help us divide and yet still cooperate to use our separate works together, but MS is trying to get us to divide and argue amongst each other so that we no longer cooperate but stand divided on what MS is trying to make into an issue. Come on guys, MS walks in, saying "OK, half you guys get over here, and half you guys get over there because we say so. Hey hey hey, ubuntu guys, check out the way those Novell guys are looking at you...." etc. And it's like we're falling for it.
It all boils down to the fact that the software is not "under" any kind of agreement except the GNU GPL. We all know the patents are crap otherwise they would be disclosed. We all know patents do not even matter, otherwise MS (and any others who would want to squeeze GNU/Linux for some cash) would have made their move by now. All they're doing is prodding us and watching which way we squirm. Why should we squirm? Just get back to using FLOSS, nothing's changed. Except that maybe we're a lot bigger now and they're more scared.
Twinstiq, game news
Psh. Please...
KDE v GNOME
vi v emacs
Linux v BSD
Qt v gtk v tcl/tk v Swing v raw X calls
O(1) scheduler v Completely Fair Scheduler
GPLv2 v GPLv3 v BSD license
stuffing v potatoes
Like the open-source world needs help in becoming fractured. We're perfectly good at doing that ourselves, thank you very much.
Microsoft are doing what they do best, divide and conquer, with FUD and money. The good news is that by attacking the open source community, they have shifted into "FIGHT" phase (ignore, mock, fight, lose, as Gandhi said). Microsoft will not win, for the simple reason that the open source community is unlike any business they have crushed before.
We can't be divided, we are already utterly fragmented and internecine. Our strength is that we can never be absorbed; once open (and especially if GPLd) the code can never be killed.
Microsoft will try, and try, and try to divide the FOSS community, and each time they'll just make it stronger. Eventually the attempts will change Microsoft; the only real way it can fight and beat FOSS is to become FOSS.
Nothing Microsoft can do, no amount of money, patent blackmail, FUD, ISO corruption and bribery, not even murder and assassination, can stop the Community, because FOSS is not a business, it is a better technology, and like MSN/1.0 in 1995, where Microsoft thought, "let's beat the Internet by making our own private network", you cannot fight better technology. You use it, or your competitors do, and either way it survives.
Of course, in the meantime, Microsoft can and will cause a lot of pain and damage and destroy many careers and corrupt many officials, and mis-educate millions of young people. It's very sad. But in the long term, makes no difference.
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I will say this, all the companies that did this agreement will end up broke. I got so mad over linspire's agreement with microsoft. I then switched to Ubuntu. I just cant trust them to not compromise my system. why the didnt they learn from sco
The "petty schisms" are all silly and the free software world has gone from strength to strength anyway. Free software encourages people to fork and merge, so disagreements are really a strength because the good results are always picked back up.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Linux, Apache, PostgreSQL, and PHP also among the list of projects not using GPLv3 that could be considered 'core.'
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
It's not just that the code is available to the group using it. It's also that the code is out there and if XYZ quits working or supporting it maybe someone else will.
My CEO was shocked when I told him that the accounting software was no longer supported by the original company. But we found some guys who used to work for the company and they'll come here and help us fix the problem. You just have to pay airfare, lodging and $200/hr.
He who said 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 typewriters would eventually type the great novel, never saw an AOL chat room
Microsoft has not, cannot, and hasn't the political will to take on the Linux community directly.
Many people have told them directly, and in no uncertain terms, so sue me. The principal of estoppel says that Microsoft will get into hot water unlike any it has ever known should it open the pandora's box of patent litigation against the F/OSS community.
Shuttleworth dances with the devil. No wonder he's hot under the collar.
Linux isn't fractured. Linux isn't hurt. Linux development and FOSS will naturally evolve. It grows stronger. It is principled, where Microsoft certainly is specifically interested solely in shareholder return. Let's see, Linux has been successfully sued how many times? How many countries has busted Linux for restraint of trade and so on? How many attorney generals have sued Linux? Now show me the assets Microsoft gets by suing Linux. There is no Linux; there are multiple OS kernels, and a freighter full of GNU and GPL's apps. There are no assets. There ARE NO VIOLATORS. The lineage of what Linux has become has been more than adequately outlined in multiple different litigations by multiple reference-able authors.
That's why the SCO-IBM litigation farce was underwritten by Microsoft (and others) and why it's so flimsy. Shuttleworth needs to re-examine his motives. Certainly a corp as large as Micorosft can make anyone quake. So can several quarters of very negative revenues make Microsoft change its tune.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Before Microsoft tried the whole "patent indemnification" trick the community was less cohesive about these important issues to Free Software.
Now, after MS has made patent agreements with several companies, GPLv3 has been released, and several companies have explicitly REFUSED to sign such patent agreements with MS, the community is more cohesive -- more understanding of the importance of Free Software and in agreement that signing such patent indemnification agreements with Microsoft is a Bad Idea(tm).
As the dust settles, there are splits: Novell sits alongside Microsoft. Alongside the FSF we see Redhat, Ubuntu, Debian, and many others.
I'm excited that major vendors such as Dell and Lenovo are offering GNU/Linux pre-installed on their machines. By supporting such vendors, the Free Software community can show them that a strong demand for GNU/Linux exists. Unfortunately Lenovo will be pre-installing SuSE (from Novell) on their machines, and I encourage all of you geeks out there to WRITE to Lenovo and request that instead of SuSE they pre-install a distribution that respects Free Software such as Redhat or Ubuntu. Similarly, write to Dell and tell them that you STRONGLY appreciate the fact that they chose Ubuntu as their GNU/Linux distribution.
So to sum it up:
Keep on using the software, spend your money in support of these companies, and preach the good word of Free Software.
Peace. Love. Linux.
coding is life
Honestly, the blame is not Microsoft's. It is the community. OSS under GPL3 is fast approaching the stance of the Catholic Church as recently expounded by the Pope. In otherwords, "its all or nothing", "you're either with us, or against us", and so forth.
GPL2 was fine, the lessers are fine. But, brow beating projects into GPL3 is going to make the community rebel, and these people are all about rebellion.
The split is not happening because of MS, it is because of RMS, all holiness to his name.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Don't bother - that was such an obvious troll it's unreal.
Doesn't much matter what happens with the Linux kernel anyhow - much of the userland (including nice things like glibc and gcc) will be GPLv3 if they're not already. And they are major work to replace.
I sent them money for one of their lovely Desktops with pre-installed Ubuntu. I already had an older P-III running Ubuntu nicely, but wanted to vote with my wallet. That core2 Duo with 3 Gigs of RAM runs Ubuntu extra nicely. :D
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
It makes sense that Microsoft would try to turn the fractious and already divisive nature of at least the older elements of Linux's userbase against itself. It isn't as though such an activity would be terribly difficult, either.
This is another part of the reason why I view the Linux "community" as such a toxic, virulent sociological sickness. It's because things like this effort on Microsoft's part demonstrate that, while Linux advocates can talk about the community valuing unity to the degree that they do, that's all such talk is; talk. Linux users are a lot quicker to shun each other for imagined violations of Stallmanite philosophy than they are to genuinely stand together against a common enemy. This is easy for Microsoft to see, and in conflict, it is customary to attempt to capitalise on the enemy's weakness. Sun Tzu also wrote that one of the most important things in war is to divide the enemy wherever possible, and to prevent the enemy from forming alliances with anyone.
Microsoft signs one of these agreements with Novell or whoever else, and it wins in two ways. It wins by potentially driving said company out of business, because of said company no longer being able to sell its' distribution, and it also wins by making sure that members of the community are too busy fighting each other to be able to do anything else, because of splits between those who still want to keep using said companies' distros and those who think it is wrong to do so. So they can sign these agreements, and then merely stand back to observe the fireworks. You yourselves do the rest.
The only time I'm ever going to see the Linux community as being a good thing is when said community genuinely starts behaving like one. That means getting some basic maturity. It also means that if someone is doing what you believe is the wrong thing, that rather than shunning that person at the first sign of infraction, you instead at least initially attempt to talk to the person about what it is that they're doing, and also that in such situations you also check your own assumptions. Most importantly, the howling, red eyed zealotry needs to go.
Want to start beating Microsoft, Linux users? Stop thinking and acting like religious fanatics, and in general, grow the hell up. Right now, you're being played like a violin, and if you want that to continue, just keep doing more of the same.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
When I read this article on
"SuSE, it's your Linux"
Which is pretty ironic really. I mean if it was our Linux we would never have let them deal with the devil like they did.
This ad shows that they really are concerned about the fallout from their pact with MS
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
Microsoft may be screwed, big time. If they really do have IP tht has been violated and haven't acted to defend it by now, they risk exposure to lawsuits by the shareholders (the people who actually DO own this IP). See this for the consequences of delay. If, on the other hand, its all a bluff, then they risk being charged with making fraudulent claims.
Have gnu, will travel.
There is nothing that I have seen that shows the community was fractured. In fact, just about the opposite. Redhat actually tried to take it in their own direction and has been forced back towards the central. Of course, like any innovative company, they try to push the edge, which is a good thing. If somebody else comes up with a good mod to it, then great. In fact, with 3 distro's controlling about 80% of the community, it is very hard to fracture. I do think that MS has figured out an interesting angle and novell took the hook, but that remains to be seen. But even if so, so what? If it truely fractures, then groups like debian, redhat and ubuntu will continue in one direction vs. novell, linsa, and others continuing in a different and the users will decide.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Actually, the only thing holding me back from switching to Linux completely is the horrible and useless installation of new apps. Why can't Linux work like Windows - download a setup file, run it and it's there....
Ah but you can install software in Linux by just downloading and running it. I don't really know much about Linux but I know there's apt-get and rpm among others. And Linspire has CNR for Linspire Linux and they are porting it for other Linux distros. CNR allow you to select those programs you want then click a button to install them all. Uninstalling just another click.
if you don't like it, you choose "Uninstall".
Haha, I've uninstalled a lot of programs in Windows and they almost always leave junk, especially in the registry which can make it unstable. I've even had to manually uninstall software because there wasn't an uninstall and Windows Add/Remove couldn't uninstall.
I descended into dependency hell
And Windows doesn't, didn't, have DLL hell?
FalconShould there be a Law?
How eWeek's Peter Galli managed to divine that "Microsoft has succeeded in fracturing the Linux... community" from Shuttleworth's clear refutation that "Microsoft is trying to unsettle the marketplace. It isn't working..." is beyond me.
This dubious claim of Galli's is one of the clearest cases of "white is black" reporting I've seen in a while. Shuttleworth clearly, from his own statements, does not agree with the concept that the community is "fractured." At best, he believes that a few insignificant vendors have been "drawn into [negotiations with MS and] have paid a significant price."
I would say, from his clear, concise statements, that he sees the whole, sordid event as "extortion," and a crucible that has purified the community, rather than "fractured."
Read Shuttleworth's statements (in TFA) and see if you don't agree that Peter Galli is either a) a poor reporter who made a gross mischaracterization or b) has a strong agenda and preconceptions and can't even tell white from black in his zeal to follow them.
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Toro
> Then RMS with his sometimes hypocritical usually Ultra Leftist views decides that companies are abusing the
:D
> nature of open source
Why is his Ultra Leftist views hypocritical?
> Most of us doesn't care about what Microsoft and Novel is doing trading patents in exchange for mutual
> protection of each others patents are a normal thing that goes on.
Most of "you", who, exactly? Who is this "us" you're talking about? AFAIC, i do care if powers that be are trying to mutualy protect each other. In this day free software equals free speech. This will be even more more apparent in the next 100 years. I do care if someone is trying to shrink my personal freedoms. Argument from popularity, trying to use, are we?
> But GPL 3 is what worries people myself included because we feel that it is going into a direction that is
> to strict and removes to much freedom from the developer and the user as well. Because a lot of the time
> Users are Developers too.
That is not a freedom you have, Sir. It is not the perogative of any user or any developer or any company to remove a piece of FREE (as in speech) software from the free software pool. From a Marxist point of view, while under copyright law, releasing software in any other licence than the GPL, actually removes power from the developer and the user. As do pattents.
Hackers of the World, unite. You got nothing to lose. the pattent office, does, though. a lot.
PS1 Anybody care to comment on my hypothesis? "Computer Programmers are the first generation of western proletariats who can and do own their means of production". *cough*marxisthacker*cought*
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