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Industry Fallout from GTA IV Delay
SET writes "MSNBC has an interesting writeup on the shakeups in the gaming industry following Take-Two's announcement that Grand Theft Auto IV has been delayed. The article examines the problems this creates for Microsoft and Sony, both of whom were expecting GTA IV to help boost Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 sales this coming holiday season. 'Analyst Michael Pachter told Web site GamesIndustry.biz that he believes Rockstar has delayed the game because it is struggling with development on the PlayStation 3. Sony denies this charge and said that the company has a dedicated team working with Rockstar on "GTA IV." They say they're not that worried about the delay and would prefer that Rockstar take the time it needs to perfect the game. "We'd love to have [it] out as soon as possible," said Sony spokesperson Dave Karakker. "But we've never had a single game make or break any of our platforms. That's not how we built 100 million sales of [the] PlayStation 2, and that's not how we'll build 100 million in sales of [the] PlayStation 3."'"
Ultimately, the GTA IV delay helps Microsoft more than it hurts them. Microsoft already has a blockbuster holiday season lineup in the works, even without GTA IV. Sony, on the other hand, was relying on GTA IV as one of the cornerstones of its 2007 holiday strategy.
As far as I know, Microsoft cares more about releasing Halo 3 this year than GTA IV. They are just saying it for PR purposes. I'm sure Microsoft could care less when GTA IV comes out, they have many great games coming out this year and early next year.
No, actually Microsoft made it very clear that GTA IV was expected to be one of the big three system sellers this year, along with Halo and Madden. It was important enough that Peter Moore tatooed it on his arm, for cryin' out loud!
I disagree, while they are happy that Halo 3 is coming out, their projections of units sold took into account the release of GTA IV, a very different game than halo3 (and thus attracts a different demographic), and will therefor have implications on bottom line, and shareholder expectations.
With everything going on recently, including the extended warranties, reversal on Xbox 360 not needing an HD, and GTA IV not being released... Microsoft can't be very happy about much right now.
Gamers on the other hand, can be happy about a lot of cool games coming out, regardless of GTA IV.
The 360 will have Halo 3. The Wii will likely have Mario Galaxies and possibly even Super Smash Brothers Brawl. And the PS3 will have... what? How many crappy holiday seasons can Sony survive?
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
All Halo 3 does is give Microsoft the fans that they already have. GTA4 gives them new users. I don't think it's going to have a major effect since the XBox always got GTA games after a while anyway, but it's going to be a bigger effect on system sales than Halo 3. Halo 3 was always going to be about the sales of the game itself, the profits of which MS gets to itself.
Rob
If anything, the delay of GTA4 is for the best.
This holiday market is already flooded with tons of new releases. Right now I have to make decisions on what games I want to buy. And with Guitar Hero 3 and Rock Band costing way above the average of a regular game it makes my choices harder and fewer.
Most of the individuals I've talked to who own either a PS3 or 360 are relieved that GTA4 was delayed.
could NOT care less. "could care less" means, well, they could indeed care less than they do.
But we've all been through this a hundred times before.
(anonymous) *sigh
What with all the crazy shit coming out in the next few months for the 360, PS3, and the Wii, the last thing that I needed was another game that would suck up 40-60 hours playtime...this at least gives me (and many others) a chance to play through all the stuff coming out by the end of the year.
Take your time Rockstar. We will buy it regardless of when you release it.
Living With a Nerd
My thoughts about the dealy, I am frikkin livid about it.
I was jacking a car from some muppet this morning when he told me about the delay.
I shot the fucker right there and then.
liqbase
The idea that the PS3 is responsible for the delay is unfounded speculation. It would be just as valid to suggest that the XBox 360 is causing problems with its inferior media capacity, or that Rockstar itself simply underestimated how much work the project would involve. Unless Rockstar itself reveals what's going on, we're never going to know the truth.
Rob
So some random analyst assumes the PS3 is the problem, and it ends up in the flamebait summary even though a VP at Rockstar says they haven't figured out how to deal with the lack of hard drive in the Xbox 360?
Why doesn't the summary mention that Microsoft is considering allowing games which require the hard drive, possibly in response to these issues with GTA IV? Instead it just trash-talks the PS3. Lovely.
It's speculation, but it's hardly unfounded.
There have been plenty of demos of GTA4 running on the Xbox 360, but none of it running on the PS3.
It's safe to say that the cause for the delay is the well-known difficulty of developing for the PlayStation 3.
" ...That's not how we built 100 million sales of [the] PlayStation 2, and that's not how we'll build 100 million in sales of [the] PlayStation 3."
If the PS3 hits 100 million in sales, I promise you Sony, I'll go out and buy two.
The idea that the PS3 is responsible for the delay is unfounded speculation
True enough. I can tell you from direct experience, however, that the PS2/3 is much more difficult to develop for than the XBox/360. It would not surprise me that the hold up is due to Rockstar having difficulties in getting the PS3 to do what it should.
A multi-platform game isn't the cornerstone of anybodies holiday season. If the game is the same on both platforms it shouldn't help sales of one any more than the other.
However in the case of GTA IV, there's Xbox exclusive content, but no PS3 exclusive content. If anything it would have helped Xbox sales, not PS3 sales. A delay of GTA hurts MS more than Sony, but it really doesn't hurt either of them much at all relative to each other.
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(The above space intentionally left blank: readers may insert their own jokes about PS2 failure rates)
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
I think Sony is wrong with the "no single game makes or breaks our platform" remark. I knew quite a few people who bought a PS2 specifically for GTA 3 and I think there are a lot of people who are specifically waiting for Metal Gear Solid 4.
And it would not be uncommen: I mean how many people bought an Xbox specifically for Halo?
There have been plenty of demos of GTA4 running on the Xbox 360, but none of it running on the PS3.
That may be because the engine that GTA4 uses was made for an earlier 360 game. This leads to another valid argument: The PS3 version is taking longer to develop because of difficulties in porting the engine. These difficulties would be the same if the engine had originated on the PS3 and needed to be ported to the 360, so it's not a problem with the PS3.
It's safe to say that the cause for the delay is the well-known difficulty of developing for the PlayStation 3.
I remember that the PS2 also had a "well-known difficulty" of development, but that didn't seem to affect it so much.
Rob
Sure the delay of GTA doesn't help Microsoft in the near future, but slightly longer-term, it helps by improving sales and marketing efforts for the other games coming out that are also very solid, and thus attracting an audience that is otherwise put off by GTA. I've never had any interest in that genre, and I'm not alone. Plenty of gamers out there don't like GTA, but a good FPS or RPG can make them buy a system. Sure it won't be the numbers that GTA can move, but it'll be a different set of gamers.
It's not like they're canceling GTA for 360, so there will still be plenty of 360s sold this coming Q4 based just on the expectation of getting GTA in a few months.
That really means nothing in itself. It's probably easier to QA and maintain a single platform for demo purposes.
Unless they waited to port to the PS3 until the 360 code is done, and they are having lots of trouble finishing the 360 code on time putting the whole thing behind schedule. The cool thing about speculation is that you can speculate any way you want.
I think what he's saying is that if there's 30 great games out for the XBox360, not having a 31st great game isn't all that much. However, if the PS3 only has 10 great games, then not having an 11th great game is three times worse. I'm pulling those numbers out of a .cx domain, but that's the gist of it.
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It's pretty sad, since they've yanked off a lot of the people to start work on Grand Theft Auto: Emerald City.
Especially since this Seattle based version, with a fictional Grey's Anatomy "Seattle Grace" hospital where KOMO TV is next to the Space Tower (Space Needle), doesn't even have the Fremont Troll, although it does have an Art Car where the Fremont Troll should be.
Personally, I'd love to play it, but it sounds like I'll have to wait for the Mac version, cause it requires Windows Vista, that or wait for the Wii version.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
So some random analyst assumes the PS3 is the problem
Actually, it's all over the media. G4 TV has been quite frank in how the PS3 delays are way longer for virtually all announced games, although they say some of that is just due to marketroids overpromising game ship dates.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"Sure it won't be the numbers that GTA can move..."
"...there will still be plenty of 360s sold this coming Q4 based just on..."
hmm... I got whiplash from this.
First you discount a particular statistic, and then you use it to nail down your statement. Overall, none of what you said has any basis in lucid thought. A hollow comment - what are the odds...
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Sony was relying on GTA IV to drive hardware sales. Xbox 360 hardware sales are already strong and they have an installed base an order of magnitude larger than Sony's, so hardware sales aren't really an issue for Microsoft. Sony, on the other hand, needs hardware sales; yes, they're losing money on every unit, but unless they can convince developers that there's a significant user base out there, the 360 will start seeing more and more exclusives, as developing for the PS3 will simply not be worth the effort (much like the Xbox wasn't in the last generation).
Now, if gamers were rational (in the economic sense), you'd be right. GTA IV with exclusive content + a cheaper console + lots of other great games >> no exclusive content + more expensive console + not a lot of great games. However, there are a lot of Microsoft-haters out there who are just looking for an excuse to buy a PS3, but Sony hasn't given them a compelling enough reason yet. And, in fact, this might be the tipping point that makes them buy a 360 regardless of their feelings towards MS.
I purchased the PS2 a little over a year ago just for katamari 1 and 2. Once I played through these games my ps2 went into a box in my closet. The only other game I would have had any interest in playing on my ps2 was guitar hero2 I purchased that one for the 360, and have since downloaded 1 of the song packs. Soon enough the new Katamari game will be released on the 360 and possibly the wii / ps3. I plan on buying the wii when I can walk in and find it on the shelves at the stores, I have no plans as of yet to purchase a ps3, HDdvd or blue ray player. It seems like katamari being a multi system release was based on ps3s horrible market penetration, and that is just fine with me. GTA was never a selling point game for me, my attention span for this type of game is so short that playing it at a friend's place once every 3 or so months fills out my GTA quota. If a new game were released by rockstar ala original GTA overhead play style (I love me some platformers) I might consider buying it. As of right now rockstar doesn't make a game I would go out of my way to get a hold of, and I doubt they ever will.
I fail to see where I said the problems were limited to the 360. I also fail to see where I said the summary shouldn't have said anything negative about the PS3. I merely said it should tell the whole story if it's going to tell half the story.
You see what you wanted to see though apparently.
Yeah, but generally speculation that's devoid of logic (and yes, I mean yours) can be dismissed out of hand.
Well, to be fair, we can assume Rockstar is staffed entirely with people who have no idea how to make games. Then your idea makes sense. Kind of flies in the face of history though.
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I think you need to look up the definition of "Order of Magnitude"...
Unless "about twice as many" and "ten times as many" became the same thing while I wasn't looking...
In addition, note that they didn't ask Microsoft if they minded the delay, because their response would be "of course we mind, its not developing for *our* platform that's holding the release date back."
Though not really related to anything, I'll see your "Order of Magnitude" and raise you a "Mathematical Base".
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A multi-platform game might be a corner-stone when you don't have that many other games coming out, and the game in question is a huge name like GTA. I bought my PS2 because I wanted GTA3. When GTA IV comes out, I will want it, and my Wii won't run it. So I'll likely end up buying either a 360 or a PS3. I'm not sure which one I'm going to get right now, but Sony's chance of selling me a PS3 will go from approximately 0% right now to somewhere around 50%.
Sony needs more excellent games for the PS3. Exclusives are best, but multi-platform doesn't hurt.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
The same people who gave you "Crackdown" for the XBox360 (Realtime Worlds) are working on a MMO called (last time I checked) APB.
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
"But we've never had a single game make or break any of our platforms. That's not how we built 100 million sales of [the] PlayStation 2" GTA3 was the saviour of the PS2, anyone with hardware sales figures and calander can show you that.
It exists in unoffical forms, called GTA:MP. It is HORRIBLY buggy. The "los santos role play" is amazingly boring and takes the fun out of GTA with speeding tickets, red tape, etc.
Sorry for the wild speculation here, but are you an armchair game developer, or have you ACTUALLY used the PS3's SDKs? Last I heard from industry sources, the PS3 dev kits come with amazing APIs, its just that Microsoft's dev environment is more familiar to Windows game developers. Sony also promised to work on these issues, I'm not denying them, but what's your source exactly? Or are you just repeating FUD you read somewhere else?
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Omg, I love to see noobs that learn new words, and try to use them before they really know what they mean. They're just so darned cute!
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART?
FFXI is available for 360 and PS2.
OMG! Wau!
Three things:
The only way they'll make 100 million sales of the PS3 is if they give it away....
In itself it does not suggest there are problems or bugs in the PS3 version and frankly only someone who hasn't a clue about development would even leap to such conclusions in the absence of evidence.
Yeah, it would be nice if people stopped titling articles with "Fallout" if they weren't actually about Fallout.
Actually, I doubt anything would make me buy a Microsoft Console (at least while the games still come out for Windows..). The price of the PS3, and the price and lack of content on blu-ray so far, does stop me from getting one thus far though. I have a Wii, which I similarly never use. That's my first ever nintendo console purchase, but my family have had a PSX and PS2 so far, so I have a decent library of games that I could "borrow" to play on my PS3 (I could of course get a cheap PS2 to play those games, but that just doesn't appeal to the gadget geek in me..)
which is totally what she said
It also says that the PS3 is selling well.
In fact, at the rates they are going, the only reason MS has more units sold than the PS3 is because it came out a year before. I'll grant that those charts show a bump for Sony due to its price cut, but the Xbox 360's price cut hasn't had a chance to materialize yet. At this point, however, we can look at the previous generation and see that the Xbox 360 AND the PS3 are headed for the same fate as the Xbox and Gamecube fate of last generation. The growth of the Wii will eventually take most of the developers and thus the games. The Wii is the fastest selling video game device of all time (faster then the PS2, Gameboy, DS, PSP, etc.) which no developer/publisher expected. They were all caught looking the other way, and are slowly realizing they can get a bigger market share for lower development costs.
Stop Global Warming!
Just say no to irreversible processes!
How do you know that moving the engine from one platform to another is the same difficulty, regardless of which platform you're moving from/to?
The 360 and the PS3 have very different architectures. The idea that porting from one to the other would be difficult regardless of the direction should be obvious.
Rob
Well ... FinalFantasy XI was released on the PS2, and then ported to the XBox360.
.Hack)). The only MMORPG that we've seen anything about though has been "The Agency". Which looks like an MMORPG, in a spy world.
The people who brought you Crackdown are working on a MMORPG for the XBox 360.
Sony also announced a whole bunch as being "in development", ("Endless Saga" from Webzen, an untitled MMORPG from Square Enix (rumored to be a new version of FFXI), a DC Comics based MMORPG (hopefully targeting PCs and PS3s), "The World" (from Namco/Bandai based on
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Well, there's the Multi Theft Auto mod:
http://mtavc.com/
Haven't tried it, though. All my friends are too busy leveling up in WoW and EVE to engage in any simple human skill-based game.
Wii faster selling than the DS? Are you kidding me? Check out the numbers, man. http://www.vgchartz.com/