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54% of CEOs Dissatisfied With Innovation

athloi writes "Invention is new and clever; innovation is a process that takes knowledge and uses it to get a payback. Invention without a financial return is just an expense. Ideas are really the sexy part of innovation and there's rarely a shortage of them. If you look at the biggest problems around innovation, rarely does a lack of ideas come up as one of the top obstacles; instead, it's things like a risk-averse culture, overly lengthy development times and lack of coordination within the company. Not enough ideas, on the other hand, is an obstacle for only 17 percent. At the end of the day all that creativity and all those ideas have to show on the bottom line. The goal of innovation is to make or save money, and IT should never lose sight of that central fact."

210 comments

  1. 97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously.

    1. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed. Guess what? Not every idea will turn into a short-term, high-return product/service/etc. CXO positions (I know, I generalize here) rarely understand this. The days of real R&D (Bell Labs anyone) are long gone.

    2. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      right on...
      apple xerox penpoint etc etc etc mod up

    3. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by smack.addict · · Score: 1

      Bell Labs was run by whom?

      Oh yeah, a monopolist with absurd margins.

      Only businesses with insane margins can afford dedicated R&D like Bell Labs. For most companies, R&D is a luxury.

    4. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by metlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Working in the R&D labs of a baby-Bell, we get told this all the time (i.e. innovation without monetary benefit is meaningless).

      We still get to do cool stuff and every once in a while, we have something that gets monetized. But for the most part, we work on cool stuff and the demos keep the management happy.

    5. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      "Absurd" is subjective, but I agree in principle. Microsoft has it's MS Research group. Google does a large amount of research (although it's restricted to the data organization/search space). Both companies have huge margins according to their SEC filings. So what's wrong with that? My problem is with CEOs that demand innovation with small R&D budgets. It doesn't happen. Innovation/R&D is a "try and fail" method, thereby causing it to cost a lot. If you don't have the margins to do R&D, don't bitch when there aren't results fast enough.

    6. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do they really?

      From my experience, in a lot of companies, they just don't want to innovate.

      Doing the exact same thing with a computer application instead of a typewritten form isn't innovation. I'm sorry, it just isn't. An optimization that doesn't change the process at all, isn't it. Innovation is when you figure that you can turn the process upside down, and do things like they _weren't_ done before. When Ford figured out he'd use an assembly line instead of the old fashioned way, that was innovation. If Ford had just hired a faster courier boy to carry the forms from one beancounter to another (which is what a lot of computer apps really are today: just a faster way to do the exact same thing with the same people), that would be at most a straightforward optimization.

      But when you want to shake up the process, you run into a lot of managers and egos which would be displaced by the new version. And there in a lot of places is where it fails. Try explaining to someone that his function will lose some power or prestige when your cool new system goes online, and see what kind of disproportionate resources he'll mobilize against it. Or try explaining to an old dog that he must learn new tricks, and see real resistance in action.

      Remember, a lot of these are guys who know how to backstab, brownnose or make backroom deals, when they need to. In a lot of cases that's the only skill that got them there in the first place. If you think they'll just bend over and take it just because a techie figured out how to displace them, you may be surprised.

      So what will happen in a lot of places is that they don't really want innovation. They want to keep their power and influence intact, and keep doing things like they were always done. With a computer, maybe, but nevertheless in the exact same way.

      If the old process required that a form doesn't even have a registration number before a beancounter uses his stamp to give it one, don't be surprised if the requirement for the computer version says the record may not have an ID until the beancounter gives it one. That's his "power" there: he's the guy (or the boss of the guy) who gives registration numbers. He's not going to give that up. (Don't laugh, I've actually been in a team which implemented exactly that. We actually had a hidden unique ID, while the one assigned by the beancounter was only for display purposes.)

      That's not innovation.

      The budget is an excuse there. In a lot of places, the budget isn't even really calculated as in "what can we get for how much money", but a function of:

      - corporate politics and petty wars and power grabs between heads of departments

      - the product of some inflexible regulations (e.g., if in the last year you used only X dollars, you automatically get that. Whether there's actually an ROI in it or not. And a lot goes into _waste_, not R&R, because a penny saved is a penny cut next from your budget next year.)

      - the result of some new boss pissing on everything to mark his territory (e.g., he'll show everyone who's boss by pointless half-baked restructuring games and budget reorganization, not because he actually studied what needs to be done with that money, but just to mark his new territory.) This goes especially well with the previous situation.

      Etc.

      Note that in the above I've said "many" or "a lot", but not "all". Yeah, there still are sane places. On the other hand, like Scot Adams put it recently, we seem to have harnessed the power of stupidity: at any given time, 90% of society's resources are pushed off a cliff by morons. It makes one wonder.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    7. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      These places are the dinosaurs. They get eaten.

      --
      Deleted
    8. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by yada21 · · Score: 1

      In conventionel ecconomic theory's they do. But the difference between theory and practice is that in theory, they're the same and in practice they arent.

      --
      I will have a sig when the market demands it.
    9. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Marnhinn · · Score: 1

      While I'd agree with most of what you said, I think it has more to do with how business units see the IT side of their business.

      In many companies, IT is used to build tools to support pre-existing processes and not recommend changes to the processes. (This is generally a good thing, as it requires the business folks to provide IT with requirements and details of how they want IT to support said processes.) However, this often delegates IT to a supporting role, one that is used to provide stability and minor enhancements rather than radical new changes (which could dramatically improve the process).

      Also, another issue (on which you touch briefly) is IT investment. Many companies invest only in IT when they are flush with cash and things are going well. As soon as the company hits a tough spot, IT becomes seen as a liability or a cost. This prevents IT from being as innovative as it could be because it is not always receiving steady investment, and when it is, IT is often on the critical path of a project or a developing process and does not have the time or ability to support new changes to the project / process.

      I've seen some changes in this area by several major corporations in an effort to make IT more of a leading role and in order to give IT more of an innovative role. They are doing the following:

      1. Stabilizing IT investment.
      2. Taking IT investment and work off the critical path of projects. This allows IT to examine the project and process and suggest improvements.
      3. Making IT partial owners of any process which it supports. This gives IT a say in how things will be run (by providing them with some power to counteract the business side).
      5. Lastly, by implementing company wide kaizen strategies (kaizen is Toyota's version of process improvement). This allows IT to present strategies and improvements to upper management that would be innovative under some sort of corporate strategy / umbrella.

      --
      There is always a frontier where there is an open and willing mind
    10. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      These places are the dinosaurs. They get eaten.

      Sometimes they do, but when you are talking about public utility and infrastructure companies that have so much money, power (money), political clout (money) and high barriers to entry (built with public money) they aren't subject to market forces.

    11. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by kimvette · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Following upon that, it is said that 90% of business fail in the first year. Clearly engaging in business and is just an expense/cost center, so stop founding businesses.

      How many new products fail? Look at Zune, and look at the iPod. Apple NAILED the dedicated portal media player with the iPod by giving it an excellent UI and GUI, (limited) cross-platform compatibility, and released a storefront/download/media management suite which not only adheres to quasi-open, de-facto standards such as MP3, but incorporated for its DRM a downright _reasonable_ copy protection scheme which really does block only casual "piracy," but does not really infringe upon wholly legitimate Fair Use in any way.

      What did Microsoft do? They sunk hundreds of millions into the Zune (product development, production, marketing, etc) and ships it, leaving it up to users to discover that not only does it not work well with the established product leader, it does not work well with Windows Media Player, and also does not work with the widely-adopted "Plays For Sure" scheme that Microsoft previously shoved down customers' throats, forcing Zune customers to re-purchase content they already paid for and legally own, because breaking DRM and transcoding it to the Zune's format is beyond Joe Sixpack's ability. As a result the Zune flopped in the market. It's still languishing to this day. A friend working at an electronics retailer claims that the small chain sold only TWO Zunes as of June (I haven't asked him since - he was so amused by the fiasco he'd periodically bring it up in conversation), and are stuck with several hundred in stock.

      My point? Products can and do flop. Some may flop because the idea came too soon, some because it was not implemented well, some because the price was too high, others because of lack of consumer awareness, and others because they are simply bad ideas. Zune failed because it was bad idea, a poor implementation, AND the price was/is too steep. Had Microsoft opened their standard just a tad, supported PlaysForSure, and supported cross-platform interoperability, then Apple may have had something to worry about.

      Oh, there are other reasons products fail. Some due to reliability, some due to supply issues, and yet others due to outright poor timing and a stressed economy plus availability of better alternatives (cue cat for example).

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    12. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      It goes further than that. As a monopoly, AT&T had to constantly ingratiate itself to the federal government. Bell Labs was a part of that. While little of Bell Labs' research had a lot to do with running a telephone system (true, most of the computer systems were invented to replace switchboard operators), a great deal of it had military applications. The Bell monopoly lasted as long as it did because Bell Labs was a bargaining chip.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    13. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      huh, since when has there been a lack of companys with insane margins? There's lots of companys with money out there.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    14. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by JoshHeitzman · · Score: 1

      T-Rex is a dinosaur and IBM has been called a dinosaur for many years, but it is still around.

      --
      Software Inventor
    15. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 1

      It sure sounds like where I work at :-)

      I'd like to expand on this theme. At my place, lots and lots of underemployed groups of programmers keep spitting out the same products, but under new "web service" protocols. Why? PHBs and CEOs hear about how cool web services are from trade magazines, so these groups deliver products that has buzz words the CEOs want to hear. So we just don't transfer a file anymore, we use a web service instead. No new functionality, just buzz words.

      When one group DOES actually do something innovative, if the CEO doesn't understand it, watch that project wither and twist in the wind to die. Then if by some freak accident this project does come to the light of day, watch all the other underemployed groups of programmers copy that!

      I've had some boss say in the same breath "we need to innovate, do something different" and then say "we need to continue using the same technology of (some 30 year old system)". Sigh...

      I shit you not, true story. We come up with a new product. I then get a call from one of the minions of said underemployed group, asking about it. Couple of months later, in a meeting, other members of same group (who don't know me) announce _they_ have that same technology (surprise)! Then, _after_ they announce it, their PHB asks "why do we need this technology anyways"?!?!? Let me get this straight, you come out with a product, but not know why someone would need it????

      All of this driven by competing for and keeping power, as the parent poster suggested...

      Hell, CEOs of very large companies don't even know what the hell is going on with all the infighting between groups. They just pop in for a demo, yap to the project manager for a while, and then go to a long lunch. All the problems are left behind...

      With all of this and more from the parent poster and from what I've seen, how can any innovation even possibly take place under CEOs, let alone having a CEO see it?

    16. Re:97% of Innovators Dissastisfied with CEOs by Talgrath · · Score: 1

      Only idiots call IBM a dinosaur; their processors are on the cutting edge of technology and they are behind a lot of big companies and projects.

  2. It's no surprise to me by swamp+boy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is no surprise to me. In my company (name withheld), innovation is given lip service only. New ideas are frowned upon and generally rebutted with "that's not the way we do things around here" or the cynicism of "they would never go for that". I believe that the IT management in my company only does what makes them look good for their own personal gain (promotion, bonuses, etc.) and see very little evidence of pushing things that will help the company (and our customers). If it's not a "safe" solution (Sun, IBM, or "blessed" by Gartner), then it's not something to be taken seriously.

    1. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Ideas are - in some ways - the easy part. You also have to
      • Make the ideas work within the existing framework.
      • Show how to move from the old method to the new method.
      • Convince people it's to their benefit.
      Many innovators lack the above skills. They think that once they've performed some "innovation" their job is over, and thus get extremely frustrated when it's subsequently (and predictably) ignored, saying things like "innovation is given lip service". Of course, to make the above work, the researcher would have to get down and dirty and actually talk to the end users to find out about the real world.
    2. Re:It's no surprise to me by glueball · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If it's not a "safe" solution (Sun, IBM, or "blessed" by Gartner), then it's not something to be taken seriously.

      No, it will be taken and weighed against the vendors. How one presents an idea to management will likely be what is not taken seriously.

      Sun, IBM, etc all have solutions and they work. They are packaged, supported, planned, installed, warranted, and documented. How do you present your stellar ideas to management? In a dusty old computer that reeks of "homebuilt", a cheesy black and white Powerpoint presentation, no plan for failure, no support structure, no redundancy, no analysis (as in a real B-school style analysis) of cost structure and other lost opportunity to compare your idea to a professional idea?

      This is what I see when a brilliant idea comes out of IT. Half baked, kool-aid drinking engineers reapplying another bug ridden Linux tool convinced that their idea is the best simply because they conjured it themselves and on the face it seems cheaper.

      Spend a few minutes and package your idea. Bell Labs developed ideas well because they thought them through obsessively and not because they were presented and accepted at the half-baked stage of development.

      I'm not saying that half baked ideas are bad. Not at all. It's simply that a half baked idea cannot be evaluated well against a fully supported (vendor) idea. In a fear-driven shareholder environment, a well thought out plan of a good idea trumps a crappy brilliant idea every time.

    3. Re:It's no surprise to me by russellh · · Score: 1

      Right. The chief problem is that innovation has to be seen, so you need the space and the freedom to actually do new things. Talking about innovation convinces nobody but those with an innovative or visionary personality already. Others have said it better, but innovation usually happens best in the form of a new upstart enterprise, rather than within an existing structure, so innovation needs lots of startups. I actually wish corporations could more easily be structured like a movie production, where you orient around a specific project and bring in talent for all the different departments, then disband when the project is done. Startups are a bit like that, CEO=director, VC=producer for funding agency (studio) except that they are forced to create an entity that is supposed to either live some kind of long life and pursue a market/product expansion strategy or sell and be absorbed into a larger entity.

      --
      must... stay... awake...
    4. Re:It's no surprise to me by Original+Replica · · Score: 1
      "that's not the way we do things around here"

      I came across the mother of all "that's just how we have always done it" stories the other day.

      The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.
      Why was that gauge used?
      Because that's the way they built them in England, and English expatriates built the US Railroads.
      Why did the English build them like that?
      Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.
      Why did "they" use that gauge then?
      Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel! spacing.
      Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.
      So who built those old rutted roads?
      Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (and England) for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.
      And the ruts in the roads?
      Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.
      The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. And bureaucracies live forever. So the next time you are handed a spec and told we have always done it that way and wonder what horse's ass came up with that, you may be exactly right, because the Imperial Roman war chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses.
      Now the twist to the story...
      When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.
      So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a Horse's ass. http://www.manbottle.com/humor/railroads_to_space_ shuttles
      --
      We are all just people.
    5. Re:It's no surprise to me by yada21 · · Score: 1

      Nice story, pity it's total BS.

      --
      I will have a sig when the market demands it.
    6. Re:It's no surprise to me by Yoozer · · Score: 1
    7. Re:It's no surprise to me by sane? · · Score: 1

      Or to look at it from another direction, the actual creative part of the process, coming up with new ideas, works well. However when it comes to MBA types getting their head out of their arse for more than two seconds at a time, if all falls down. Somehow its supposed to be the responsibility of the person who came up with the idea to force the uptake of it through, against opposition from those same MBAs, and to receive nothing from it at the end of the process if they happen to be successful.

      You want the 'innovator' to make all the running when others on higher salaries do nothing? Well, its a minimum of 10% of the profits from the IP for the next 20 years. Otherwise there is no point. You want to keep that 10%? Force the MBAs to be something more than rote paper pushers - make them earn their percentage of the spoils.

    8. Re:It's no surprise to me by achacha · · Score: 1

      The QWERTY keyboard is a real example, it was done that way to keep the mechanical typewriters from jamming by effectively slowing you down.

    9. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree those are important, but this is where management should be stepping up. This is like saying it's not good enough to have mastered the technical side of engineering, one must also have a deep understanding of the customer and be able to sell to them; be adept at project management, and in presenting to upper management; represent the company in the community via volunteer work, etc. That would be ideal, but you don't often find the complete package in one person. Management should recognize the opportunities, evaluate them, and allocate resources to the promising ones.

    10. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      Management is usually up to its eyeballs in ideas and projects and proposals and initiatives and plans and reviews and reports and paperwork. They are not supermen - they need a little help to sift the good ideas from the bad.

      And researchers who can't see beyond the technical aspects of their work make things so much harder. How many times has a researcher gotten so carried away explaining the technical details of some idea that they forget to explain why it might benefit the company or the customer? How many times has a researcher given a presentation, only to have someone have to ask afterwards "How does this affect me?" (and then often receive a stuttering and incoherent reply).

      Bringing new ideas to market is not just a technical problem - it's a social one as well. Researchers must learn that, or face a frustrating career. Downloading that problem entirely onto management is cop-out and doesn't work anyway.

    11. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Ideas are - in some ways - the easy part."

      I know plenty of people who come up with crappy ideas but who can market them effectively. In the best case scenarios, those ideas only waste the resources that were diverted to fund them. In the worst case scenarios, those ideas hurt everyone who were tricked or forced into embracing them. So yes, coming up with ideas is easy. Coming up with good ideas is hard.

      "Of course, to make the above work, the researcher would have to get down and dirty and actually talk to the end users to find out about the real world."

      Which they have no way of doing unless they are given support from management. Its easy to come up with an idea while sitting in your cubicle working on your day to day work, but to advance an idea requires time and commitment. If the company's "innovation policy" is just to have employees come up with viable ideas on top of their day to day job, of course they are not going to get the hard stuff done.

      Or do you expect employees to develop and market innovative ideas on their own time without support from management? But if they could do that, why would be working for the company in the first place? Why wouldn't they go off and start their own company and become rich selling their invention on their own? Too often management seems to think their only duty to innovation is to give pep talks, write memos stressing the importance of innovation, and every once in a while fund a project or two. That is lip service. Real innovation requires real investment. It is a risk, but if you could easily gain market share without risk, don't you think your competitors would have already done that?

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    12. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      Every idea starts out as a half baked idea. It takes a lot of work to fully develop them, which is hard to do without support from management. If management expects their employees to magically present them with fully developed ideas and well done business analysis (prepared by people with likely no business school training) for them to simply bless, they are in for a disappointment.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    13. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      Or do you expect employees to develop and market innovative ideas on their own time without support from management?
      I don't expect them to do full-scale marketing, but I do expect them to do more than many of them do now, with or without the support of management. If a researcher said to his/her boss "I'll be away from my desk today talking to the users or marketing to find out what the real problems are", few bosses would object. And if they do object, then the employee should either do it without asking permission, or find work elsewhere.

      if you could easily gain market share without risk, don't you think your competitors would have already done that?
      Not always. Maybe their company has the same problems yours does. And even if they have done it, you should still do it.
    14. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are good reasons why Qwerty keyboards are still predominant. The layout is approximately the same for all languages that are based on the Roman character set.

      Dvorak keyboards on the other hand, change drastically when switching from language to language since they are based on letter usage patterns in that language

      This is part and parcel of the parent post, you need to show why the innovation gives the company an advantage. This means that you need to understand the benefits as well as the costs.

    15. Re:It's no surprise to me by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      As of 1880 or so, there were a total of 12 railroad gauges. It may be that you can trace the 4'8.5" number to a roman warhorse, but I'd doubt it. More likely, that's just what won out. Now all we need is a passenger train network built to european specs (so we can use their trains) and we'll have a good part of our transportation problems solved - if you can travel from NYC to Chicago to SF in a day or two without using much gas (use coal/electricity) or NYC to DC in 2-3 hours, then our oil dependency becomes a matter of convenience.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    16. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would also add that many companies don't really offer any incentive for people to go through the process of getting an idea "blessed".

      For example... Where I currently work, there was a recent meeting in which innovation was discussed. We "uncooperative engineers" were reminded that the company owns "all" of our ideas irregardless of whether we come up with them on company time or on our own. They also reminded us that if they "blessed" one of our ideas, that they would give us the staggeringly generous sum of $100. They also reminded us that we should make sure to give them a pretty much fully developed idea, because their time is valuable. They also reminded us that we should not let this interfere with out regular work. They also reminded us that we weren't producing enough ideas and that they would "appreciate it" if we would work overtime to come up with more. I could go on... But I think it's enough. Suffice it to say... Things just continued to go downhill. By the time it was done, they'd sapped all the enthusiasm for innovation out of the room.

      Yep... Very encouraging...

    17. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      "If a researcher said to his/her boss "I'll be away from my desk today talking to the users or marketing to find out what the real problems are", few bosses would object."

      Actually, virtually all would. First, most communications with the customer are done through specific channels, primarily to avoid pissing off the customer (most people would not like it if they got dozens of phone calls from random employees from a company they just bought something from), casting the product in a bad light (if you were to ask whether or not the slow load time of a piece of software was a problem, many customers who had never noticed it before would now start complaining) or giving them incorrect information (a slip of the tongue could give a customer the impression that a new feature is coming in the next version). Often if an employee were to track down and question a customer without permission, that would be grounds for dismissal.

      Second, most developers in today's business environment are busy trying to meet existing business commitments, so the manager would not like them wasting their day chasing down potential benefits which causes them to miss their current commitments.

      "Not always. Maybe their company has the same problems yours does. And even if they have done it, you should still do it."

      What? I think you missed the point, so I'll restate what I said before. Investing in innovation is a risk. Sometimes it pays off, more often it doesn't. There is no magical innovation "easy button" which a company can press and suddenly get a new bright idea.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    18. Re:It's no surprise to me by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      So the solution is slick Powerpoint and pretty GUI's? Under the hood, the vendor products also are often hacky crap.

    19. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      When talking to customers, naturally one goes through marketing or whoever handles the customer. But what's wrong with them saying to a customer "we want to take you out to lunch and have one of our researchers talk to you about your concerns"? I've often done that, and clients are generaly thrilled that (1) they are getting a free lunch, (2) they can talk directly to a researcher, and (3) someone is actually concerned about their problems and priorities. Slip of the tongues aren't a concern if you spend most of the lunch asking questions. Besides, most customers aren't that delicate - they know they are talking to a researcher, not senior management.

      Research and marketing should be working hand-in-glove, and if they aren't then you should do what you can to improve the situation.

      But even when you don't have access to your customers, you definitely have access to other employees - ones who know far more about the business than you do.

      And so far as being too busy with your current committments, talking with employees and customers is how you meet your current committments. It's part of the task.

      Regarding your point about risk, my point is this: (1) I've seen lots of ideas that are low risk. They are way more common than you would think. (2) If your company doesn't want to take any kind of risk - if researchers are just window dressing - why are you working for them? Do everyone a favour, including the company, and quit. In technical fields at least, companies that don't take some risk are soon out of business.

      Researchers have usually spent many years in university, and that's how they often relate to the world - the mere generation of good ideas is sufficient and praise worthy. In a business setting it doesn't work that way. They are there to make a real difference to the business, and having brilliant ideas isn't good enough - those ideas have to address real problems, and researchers must do everything they can to turn those ideas into commercial successes. Researchers that don't appreciate that can easily turn bitter and petulant and begin blaiming others.

    20. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rumblin'rabbit: "And so far as being too busy with your current committments, talking with employees and customers is how you meet your current committments. It's part of the task."

      Depends on the business, the customer, and your exact position as a worker. In many cases "you" are so far removed, that even asking causes eyebrows to raise. To top it off, in many cases your customers are a whole ton of people and so... It will probably go something like this...

      Management will look at you and say "What good would it do to talk to just one? And we sure aren't going to pay for 'you' to talk to a whole bunch! We have departments that do this thing... You tell us your idea... If we like it, we will pass it on to them and then they'll do the leg work." "Nope... Sounds poorly researched to me. Get back to your job... Now."

      rumblin'rabbit: "those ideas have to address real problems, and researchers must do everything they can to turn those ideas into commercial successes."

      Please... I've seen products/services dying in businesses and management BEGGING the researchers and engineers for all their ideas and them stating "We'll do the leg work! Just give us your ideas and we're willing to talk to you about them, so we can work it out. We're in desperate straights to save the product/service! Please help us!" And then... They turn down EVERY SINGLE ONE with a literal wave of their hand, because all of them were obviously bad ideas... The product/service fails and management can't understand why the researchers and engineers didn't help them save the product/service.

    21. Re:It's no surprise to me by KenSeymour · · Score: 1

      I like the part about the three different railroad gauges in the Southern United States
      contributing to the Union victory in the Civil War.
      Sometimes innovation bites you in the ass.

      --
      "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
    22. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      "When talking to customers, naturally one goes through marketing or whoever handles the customer. But what's wrong with them saying to a customer "we want to take you out to lunch and have one of our researchers talk to you about your concerns"?"

      Having marketing carefully arrange meetings between customers and research and development is one thing. An engineer suddenly announcing to their boss that they are taking the day off to go bug customers (like you suggested they do) is completely different.

      "And so far as being too busy with your current committments, talking with employees and customers is how you meet your current committments. It's part of the task. "

      Sorry, most engineers already have plenty of development commitments and simply don't have time to develop entirely new ideas. If you are in denial of that fact, you are living in a fantasy world.

      "I've seen lots of ideas that are low risk. They are way more common than you would think. "

      Its not the ideas themselves that I am saying are risky, its investing the time and energy to fully develop those ideas in the first place.

      "Researchers have usually spent many years in university, and that's how they often relate to the world - the mere generation of good ideas is sufficient and praise worthy."

      What university did you go to? Writing a thesis generally involves much more than simply thinking up an idea...

      "and researchers must do everything they can to turn those ideas into commercial successes."

      So where do you think management comes in? Just giving researchers pats on the back? Is that where they are earning their 6 digit salaries? Again, if researchers could do everything themselves, they wouldn't work for you. They would have gone off and started their own company and made millions off their ideas without having to share with the rest of the company.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    23. Re:It's no surprise to me by glueball · · Score: 1

      So in your world, management should stop worrying about all those unimportant things and come running down to the lab to see your Greatest Invention Ever. Then, through the magic of being part of a company, the idea forms itself into either something the company internal can use or that everyone in the outside world will fall over themselves to buy.

      It doesn't happen that way.

      You work in *their* world, not yours. They are probably not doing everything they can to make you feel special, wanted, and valued (it used to be a paycheck was plenty) but fine. You are undervalued.

      So every engineer at your company has a pet project that will revolutionize efficiency and creativity. How are you going to differentiate yourself from every other genius?

      By the time it was done, they'd sapped all the enthusiasm for innovation out of the room.
      They probably zapped it out of everyone not willing to do the entrepreneurial process. It's hard. It's depressing. It's not full of people giving you gold stars for your magical ideas.

      If you can bring your idea to a "blessed level" you have two choices. One, go along with the flow and get your $100 genius invention paycheck or two, play the game and say "I'll manage the idea and bring it to fruition for a $50K bonus at the end of the year if I meet the target of $1MM in company savings. If I fail, you bonus me nothing."

    24. Re:It's no surprise to me by Talgrath · · Score: 1

      Yes. Let's be honest, most of management wouldn't know a good idea if it hit them in the face; slick presentation and an analysis of how much it could cost/save the company is more likely to get you some payoff than just showing them what you have so far.

    25. Re:It's no surprise to me by glueball · · Score: 1

      they are in for a disappointment.
      No, they aren't. If your idea isn't worth your time and investment, it sure as hell isn't worth theirs.

      I know it's a lot of work. First hand.

      There is nothing that says you can't go to management and say "Hey, I've got this idea, it's fully disclosed, I'd like to learn how to productize it. Is there someone who can help me go through the process so that it's exactly the way you want it? I want to create a market analysis, a 5P chart, and make a few calls to customers to see if it's something they can use."

      If they say no, you have a choice. Leave or stay. You can't take the exact idea with you, but you do get to keep your domain knowledge. Maybe you can recreate the idea somewhere else.

      I can tell you, if you ask an officer level manager (or CEO) in those words, you will get attention as *enthusiasm* and as *initiative* which is exactly what a CEO likely is complaining about when he or she says there is a lack of innovation. I think there's plenty of innovation. There's a shortage of usable innovation and initiative. If not, you work for a company that will die. But you already knew that.

    26. Re:It's no surprise to me by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      then we need open-source Dilbert slickification-ware.

    27. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      "No, they aren't. If your idea isn't worth your time and investment, it sure as hell isn't worth theirs."

      First of all, as has been pointed out several times in this thread, I can't profit from the idea at all, only the company can. So arguing whether or not it is worth my time is just dumb. It is quite likely something that could increase the company's profits by 10% would not be worth it to me to give up my weekends for the next 6 months in an effort to pursue it, but certainly would be worth it for the company to invest some resources to allow me to pursue it while on the job.

      "If they say no, you have a choice. Leave or stay. You can't take the exact idea with you, but you do get to keep your domain knowledge. Maybe you can recreate the idea somewhere else."

      Oh no, you can't even do that. First, if you were to "recreate" it elsewhere, you would be sued as soon as your old boss found out. They own the idea, and since you specifically told them about it, they have grounds to sue. And furthermore, you can't take your domain knowledge with you, as most engineers have to sign non-compete agreements before they start work at an employer. As an example, look at the spat between Google and MS over Kai-Fu Lee.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    28. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      "So in your world, management should stop worrying about all those unimportant things and come running down to the lab to see your Greatest Invention Ever."

      No, simply allocating some additional funds towards research so employees could pursue their ideas and develop them while on the job instead of on their own time would be sufficient.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    29. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Management is usually up to its eyeballs in ideas and projects and proposals and initiatives and plans and reviews and reports and paperwork. They are not supermen - they need a little help to sift the good ideas from the bad. This would require the management to disseminate it's knowledge of all ideas, projects, proposals, and initiatives to the researchers for them to help in the sifting process. Once cannot sift the ideas without this information. However, this information is not coming back down the chain. It stays firmly entrenched in the management system.

      And researchers who can't see beyond the technical aspects of their work make things so much harder. How many times has a researcher gotten so carried away explaining the technical details of some idea that they forget to explain why it might benefit the company or the customer? In context of the discussion, the first customer is the researcher's company, and specifically the researchers immediate manager. That manager should be pleased at any researcher who is so excited about their idea that they momentarily forget to explain the benefit. That manager should have enough awareness of the field they are managing to make a good guess at what the benefit is. Then that guess is confirmed by the manager asking the researcher. They should then both have a laugh at how the excitement led to the researcher forgetting to directly state that. At this point, the selling of this idea now falls in the hand of the manager to present to the rest of management. It is no longer solely in the hands of the researcher. The concept is called a team.

      How many times has a researcher given a presentation, only to have someone have to ask afterwards "How does this affect me?" (and then often receive a stuttering and incoherent reply). This is hardly isolated to any one group of people. I have witnessed the same results during discussions of new health care plans, company mergers, company reorganizations, etc. The problem here is indeed the presenter. However, unless it is a team of like minded technical people, the presenter will usually be the manager once again. After all, if the change is large enough to effect the company, instead of just local working peers, it is the managers job to present how their department will be impacting everyone else's department.

      Bringing new ideas to market is not just a technical problem - it's a social one as well. Researchers must learn that, or face a frustrating career. Downloading that problem entirely onto management is cop-out and doesn't work anyway. It is indeed a social problem, but as has been pointed out elsewhere, it is not the researchers sole responsibility. This kind of large scale, company wide communication falls directly into the domain of management's domain. They are there to manage both vertical aspects, from the employees below to management above, and the horizontal, cross department, aspects of the job. The bulk of your examples falls directly into their hands, yet it appears that you wish them to shirk that responsibility. The pure irony is that you consider fulfilling this duty a cop-out.
    30. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      They turn down EVERY SINGLE ONE with a literal wave of their hand, because all of them were obviously bad ideas..

      It's also possible that the researchers did not communicate those ideas in a way that the managers understood. Or perhaps those ideas weren't great to start with because the researchers did not understand the business. That's the other side of the coin to just blaiming the managers.

    31. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      Sorry bud, but I do all of the above. It doesn't take much time, I learn a lot, and and I enjoy it. And above all, it invariably gives me ideas.

      It's not difficult to justify to my supervisor ("I'm going to go talk to people who will actually be using the results of my current project. Back in two hour.") And if my supervisor objected to such things, I wouldn't bother asking his permission. I've been let go before - ain't no big deal.

      I am truly astonished at some people's responses to the idea that researchers get more involved with the business. I'm not sure if it reflects reluctance of researchers to go outside of the comfortable haven of their technical fields, or a desire of managers to keep their researchers "barefoot and pregnant". I suspect mostly the former, but either way it's a serious problem.

    32. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      And in most shops you would be fired for going outside the normal channel of communications with the customer. Either that or you are only telling half the story.

      And again, the fact that you think writing a thesis only involves thinking up an idea and not doing anything to implement tells me how deep your experience really is in research and development.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    33. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1
      When it comes to talking to fellow employees, no "normal channel of communcations" is usually necessary. When it comes to the customer, of course you go through the normal channels of communication. So what? A researcher talking to the final end users is not going to create a rent in space-time.

      ...you think writing a thesis only involves thinking up an idea and not doing anything to implement tells me how deep your experience really is in research and development.
      Never said it and don't believe it. In fact, I say the opposite. Haven't a clue where you misread that.

      And I have over 25 years experience in commercial R&D, thanks. Let's debate the topic, and keep the personal attacks down to a dull roar.
    34. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      "When it comes to the customer, of course you go through the normal channels of communication. So what? A researcher talking to the final end users is not going to create a rent in space-time. "

      ...

      Ok, let me tell you a little story and see if it helps you understand the flaw in your "argument". There are two college kids named Mike and Joe. Mike has a car, but Joe doesn't, and as a result he always has to bum rids off of his friends like Mike. One day Mike gets angry at Joe for asking him for a ride and tells him he has to become more independent, and stop relying on others for his rides. Joe responds by reminding Mike that he doesn't have enough money for a car and that he is on financial aid and the little money he makes around campus goes to his room and board. Mike just rolls his eyes and says to Joe "Well just get your parents to buy you a car like I did!"

      See the flaw in Mike's argument? He is trying to get Joe to become more independent, but his "solution" requires him depending on someone else, his parents. See how that relates to what you are arguing? You are saying R&D employees need to take the initiative get out and get more exposure to their customers instead of leaving that to management. But when reminded that most people in R&D are not usually allowed to directly contact customers, you tell them of course they should go through the proper channels (which generally involves management to some degree). Your claim that you just spontaneously leave your desk and go out and spend the day with the customers is disingenuous at best, and only serves to hide the fact that your plan is contingent on management's actions, not your own.

      "Never said it and don't believe it. In fact, I say the opposite. Haven't a clue where you misread that. "

      You must have a bad short term memory, let me remind you. In the last paragraph of this post, you state:

      Researchers have usually spent many years in university, and that's how they often relate to the world - the mere generation of good ideas is sufficient and praise worthy.
      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    35. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1
      Let me quote myself...
      Researchers have usually spent many years in university, and that's how they often relate to the world - the mere generation of good ideas is sufficient and praise worthy.
      And the very next sentence I say...
      In a business setting it doesn't work that way.
      What nonsense about getting access to customers. I've done it many times. It usually involves working with marketing, who often are delighted to have closer ties with researchers. So long as what you are doing is reasonable, few managers are going to object.

      Most researchers have considerable freedom in how they do their job - it comes with being a researcher - but many of them fail to excercise it. Blaming management for everything is just tiresome.
    36. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      " Let me quote myself...
      Researchers have usually spent many years in university, and that's how they often relate to the world - the mere generation of good ideas is sufficient and praise worthy.
      And the very next sentence I say...
      In a business setting it doesn't work that way."

      And you think that defends my accusation that you think a thesis just involves thinking up ideas? Or is your short term memory so bad you forgot what you were arguing about again?

      "What nonsense about getting access to customers. I've done it many times. It usually involves working with marketing, who often are delighted to have closer ties with researchers. So long as what you are doing is reasonable, few managers are going to object. "

      Even on /., I've seen few better examples of someone completely missing the point... I'm not saying researchers can't get access to customers, I'm saying they can't do it without the help of the business people. Again, your claims that you are going out on your own and chatting with customers are nothing more than disingenuous attempts to take credit for something you had marketing arrange for you.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    37. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      You've assumed that because I said researchers must take more responsibility, that others can shirk theirs. I never said that.

    38. Re:It's no surprise to me by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      Taking credit has nothing to do with it. Learning how the business works has everything to do with it.

    39. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sun, IBM, etc all have solutions and they work. You must have a very strange definition of "work".
    40. Re:It's no surprise to me by nwbvt · · Score: 1

      "Taking credit has nothing to do with it"

      With whether or not your company brings in a profit? No. But with the validity of your 'argument'? Yes, it was an integral part.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    41. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You misunderstand. I don't think they should fall all over themselves over my "great invention" nor do I think my pay is bad.

      You need to reread my post. It was all almost word for word dead-on with what they said.

      But in a nutshell, they expect us to work overtime for the potential of "maybe" getting $100. And that "maybe" is a pretty remote possibility. Additionally, even if they don't give us our $100, they still own our idea (according to them anyway). So, essentially they are asking for free research. At that point, I would be better off using my free time to work a second job or develop my ideas so I can start my own company or work on another degree or anything really. It would be a much better investment, than hoping maybe someday they'll give me the awe-inspiring sum of $100.

      To me it seemed like they were saying my time is worthless and their's was... Well... Everything. Hate to break it to you, but that's not how you inspire people. Also, from what I hear, all the other engineers feel the same way. If that didn't seem the least bit like an absolutely insulting offer to you, then I don't know what would.

      "play the game and say 'I'll manage the idea and bring it to fruition for a $50K bonus at the end of the year if I meet the target of $1MM in company savings. If I fail, you bonus me nothing.'"
      Nice idea. One I would definitely play. You seem to be mistaken as to what kind of person I am. My only complaint is that I get the impression that they are trying to cheat us.

    42. Re:It's no surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh... I agree for the most part. I don't think most ideas are good. Far from it. I would also say, that most good ideas are just a repeat/copy of what someone else did.

      However... When the business/product/service is dying and management has ideas sitting on their desk and they throw them ALL out and just let it die, to me it's pretty clear whose fault it is.

      That may sound mean, but management isn't perfect either. In fact, to me it's been pretty clear that sometimes it is in fact management that does not know "the business", simply based on what they do and how it turns out. From time to time, I've seen management (for example) chase off all (or most) of the customers with some choices.

  3. It seems to me by homey+of+my+owney · · Score: 1

    That the two are inexorably linked. Innovation without invention id what exactly? The problem is that most of the CEOs that are complaining, cannot see past their 13 week (quarter) window. The real problem is there is no long term research that will lead to innovation.

    1. Re:It seems to me by lottameez · · Score: 1

      I know quite a few CEO's and I don't know any that are as shortsighted as you say. It's generally the board/investors that are looking for the quicker turnaround, but even they will be patient if a plan is laid out and you make your benchmarks along the way. If this wasn't true it wouldn't be as easy as it is to get venture money for ideas.

      --
      Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
  4. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  5. Innovation Pains by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1


    Innovation must also solve a problem with the status quo (even if only not perfectly perceived). Big Picture Executives and Chief Lieutenants get into discussions all day about "we could do this", and later learn that it has a complex side effect. If the side effect is solved, innovate. If the side effect is worse than the original problem, then that idea has to be parked for some length of time until the atmosphere changes and it can be revisited.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  6. Bullshit by SCHecklerX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they were so worried about innovation, they'd let their employees use it (I'm talking from an IT perspective here). At my last job, we had good solutions in place to do things cheaper, faster, and better (yup, all three). But management insisted on leaving that system to go with a vendor's solution that used canned products to 'solve' the problem for a lot more cost and effort. And it never worked well.

    Fast forward to today. I'm interviewing for jobs. Every single company I interview with doesn't care what my aptitude is, or what I can do to help the business use technology to give them a great ROI on technology while solving their problems. They only care "Do you know product X?"

    So, my own experience shows me that CEO's certainly don't give a crap about innovation. Or, if they do, their IT managers certainly aren't following their vision (actually, I do think that is probably the case, as I saw some evidence of that at the last company after each quarterly meeting where I'd agree with what the CEO wanted to do, but my own management would always go down the buy the canned solution that doesn't work so well path).

    1. Re:Bullshit by ardor · · Score: 1

      Well, conducting many interviews calls for some streamlining, don't you think? Asking for product X is easier and faster than in-depth conversation..

      --
      This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This worthy of being modded up.

      'Innovation' in the eyes of CIO's, is that the 'Pet Projects' that they chose AND set the parameters on (ie COTS , big market leaders and self serving deadlines) continually fail, or were successfully implemented after the perception re-education phase.

      A sure sign of this not getting the companies documents on and internal 'google', so that the people who did poor evaluation (strategic business unit or some non IT centric area) never get personally attacked for deficient costings and project/business plans.

      Strangely, spending up big ticket items is seen as the way up - a successful series of quiet achievements is rarely noticed.

    3. Re:Bullshit by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Every single company I interview with doesn't care what my aptitude is, or what I can do to help the business use technology to give them a great ROI on technology while solving their problems.

      Amazon cares. Sure, we want people to know java and c++, but we hire for basic smarts and aptitude, because we've internalized that today's hot! new! thing! is tomorrows awful legacy product. Projects are approved based on ROI to the company, so being able to tell your potential boss how you saved your last gig $500k/yr with a month's work (even if you're bitter that they tossed it for a vendor's thing) is valuable. Of course, you also get the occasional egregious hack, but they're often the result of necessity and not idiocy.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:Bullshit by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      As somebody has pointed out already there are benefits to canned solutions. One is that vendors often implement "best practices" in their software, so organizing work processes around the software instead of the other way around can sometimes bring efficiencies.

      It really depends on the application and what is available in the marketplace. If you can go with off-the-shelf software and resist the urge to customize the living daylights out of it you can save a TON of cash, and ongoing support costs as well. If a product is industry-standard then you also benefit from being able to hire fully-trained workers as well. Plus, you don't have to depend on some temperamental IT prima-donna to maintain the thing. (Don't get me wrong - I work in IT, but I realize that this stereotype is true FAR too often.)

      Plus, the canned solution probably comes with a pile of certifications regarding SOX or whatever the latest legal buzzword is. Or if it doesn't the next version will.

      My biggest peeve is when management does spend $1M on licenses for some big software product they often look to save every penny possible on the hardware running the system, and for the want of 1GB of RAM the thing ends up crawling...

    5. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm interviewing for jobs. Every single company I interview with doesn't care what my aptitude is, or what I can do to help the business use technology to give them a great ROI on technology while solving their problems. They only care "Do you know product X?"

      I know it's dangerous to say anything (because I know almost nothing about your particular situation), but maybe you're interviewing at the wrong companies.

      The last company I worked for cared only if I knew the language/environment they did. They got a bunch of people who knew the language, but many weren't so bright. The project was tanking while I was there, and I'm told since then it's gotten even worse.

      I left when it got bad, and went to work for another company. When I interviewed at the place I'm working now, they didn't care that I didn't know the language/environment. They said "you're smart, you'll figure it out quickly" -- and I did. We've shipped more working code in 2 months here than my old company did in 2 years.

      There are companies out there that care about hiring "smart, gets things done" people. Not many, admittedly, but they are out there. Seek them out.

  7. The same CEOs that get copyrights exended? by Mark19960 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This alone stifles creativity and innovation.....

    Perhaps they should get a fucking clue?

    1. Re:The same CEOs that get copyrights exended? by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      I don't think they are the same.
      The copyright monkeys are in the content creation business.
      The bean counters of this article are in the IT business.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  8. hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Golly gee!! I wonder why on earth I don't work IT anymore! It could also be that a lot of these CEO's don't know their ass from a hole in the ground either.

  9. Efficient innovation by amightywind · · Score: 1

    At Boston Scientific the new mantra is efficient innovation, brought to you by people who grossly overpaid to purchase innovation (Guidant), to the ruin of all.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
  10. what an idiot by kencurry · · Score: 1

    from TFA:

    Andrew: Innovation is a three-step process: 1. Generate an idea. 2. Commercialize it. 3. Realize the value.

    this guy is a genius.

    If only I had know it was this simple before, I have wasted my career...

    --
    sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    1. Re:what an idiot by jrsumm · · Score: 1

      Bah! That process is going nowhere! He forgot the "???"

    2. Re:what an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No no, you have it all wrong. The whole process is "???", reworded.

  11. Re:Shit World 2007 by ect5150 · · Score: 1

    Goals are over rated. Some of us still value the process and the effort. If this is truly the case, come work for me for no paycheck. We'll see how long you truly desire the effort with no reward.

    While you may not be the exception to the rule, the fact stands that when the process has some type of reward (versus your no reward), we wind up having more of it. That way it doesn't matter what your intentions are, sheerly that it got done (where 'it' in this case is more innovation).
    --
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
  12. Yo dilbert - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many innovators become CEO's/CXO's themselves. Why work for the "man" if you're smarter than he is? Perhaps you should try it and see if you're really innovating or just pretending.

  13. Re:Shit World 2007 by crashfrog · · Score: 0, Troll

    If this is truly the case, come work for me for no paycheck. We'll see how long you truly desire the effort with no reward.

    Yeah, you sure told that guy! What an idiot, to think that there's people out there who would do work for no money at all! Why, I can't believe that any thinking person would ever volunteer such a foolish idea!

    Now where the hell is that intern with my coffee?

    --
    I never have frustrations, the reason is, to wit:
    If at first I don't succeed, I quit!
  14. Well doh by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This smells like basic management consulting stuff
    1. Catch as many ideas as possible
    2. Usually an initial independent review "does this make sense at all?"
    3. Priority process, typically in several stages
    3a) Benefit estimates, cost estimates, risk etc. into a business plan
    3b) More review (alone)
    3c) Prioritizing (total)
    4. Develop quantifiable success metrics
    5. Review resource contraints and select the best project portfolio
    6. Do project implementation
    7. Review project underways
    8. Review compared to success metrics

    Innovation is risk, but risk can be managed. Companies that don't innovate die, so it's not like "not doing it" is an option. I've seen so many bad examples of poor management here, basicly things get started ad hoc based on personal initiatives with no proper review, planning, success criteria or anything. On the other hand, I've seen a few companies that have overdone it though, where the red tape is killing it too. But most companies really crap out on two things: Highly unrealistic business plans which nobody gets smacked for, and starting off projects with little to no regard on "where do we really want to go and is this project taking us in the right direction?".

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  15. not a surprise, but i want a surprise by icepick72 · · Score: 1

    It's not surprising someone who looks at the bottom line a lot is unhappy with innovation which provides sporadic returns. Innovation is often an unknown fiscal endeavour whereas reducing, reusing and recycling your technology -- and sometimes jumping on the popular bandwagons -- is often more fiscally viable. That's why there are layers underneath to the CEO to manage such things. What's next, an article stating 100% of CFOs are not happy with innovation.

  16. Re:Shit World 2007 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Right on conner_bw!

    At the end of the day all that creativity and all those ideas have to show on the bottom line.

    Bean counters are sucking the salt out of life. We all need a roof overhead and food on the table, but owning the biggest house, car, bling, etc., does not make us happy. Look at Hollywood if you don't believe it.

    Fame, fortune, yet many spend most of their life on a head-shrinker's couch or in the bottom of a pill bottle.

    We've yet to come up with a good alternative for capitalism, but I certainly understand why many have turned away from it.

  17. Re:Shit World 2007 by locokamil · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now where the hell is that intern with my coffee? It's Saturday, dude. The intern went home... you should too.
  18. RTFAd? by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know that reading TFA is not a prerequisite for commenting on stories on /., hell it is often regarded as being gay or some other form of highbrow elitism. Those who do it are regarded as know-it-all wise-asses who are flaunting it at the rest of unwashed /. crowds. Even among those who submit the stories and those who push them to the front pages it is now regarded fashionable not to read the text in the original articles but instead make wildly biased 'educated' guesses colored with personal preferences, while trying to describe to the rest of us what it is that the article is insinuating.

    Having said all of the above, I actually RTFAd, so sue me.

    The article mentions that 46% of the 2,468 senior executives surveyed worldwide said that they are satisfied with the return on their innovation spending. The rest are dissatisfied with the returns.

    This has nothing to do with innovation itself, this has to do with the fact that often what is supposed to be innovation (something that is supposed to provide the company with better processes, systems, business and generate income or reduce spending) in reality does nothing of the kind. Often people push their ideas not because they want to innovate, but because they want to spend or they want to do something that is not profitable for the company but satisfies their own interests.

    The article is about waste of money and it is not about CEOs who "don't like" innovations.

    Move along, this is nothing else but the usual 'non-tech' CEO bashing. (Oh, I am not against bashing, but only when there is actually a good point to make. There is nothing of the kind here.)

    1. Re:RTFAd? by NovaThinker · · Score: 1

      Businesses need new ideas to remain successful, competitive and efficient, and the demand for innovation is accelerating. The case for creative thinking software in business: Improve creative thinking productivity at a fundamental level throughout a business and benefit from the resulting explosive growth in new thinking, new ideas, innovation and change! CompXpress Creator Studio(TM) creative thinking software for business enhances creative thinking productivity on demand. Creator Studio helps individuals and teams create new ideas for new products and services, new business solutions and innovations. Creator Studio helps business people everywhere harness the creative thinking power of their entire organization.
      Wishing you many Great Ideas! The CompXpress Team

    2. Re:RTFAd? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      You are pushing a tool that can be used for whatever purpose, but it has no business knowledge of any particular domain, in itself it represents no innovation for a business.

    3. Re:RTFAd? by dusqi · · Score: 1

      Where is the reward for employees to innovate? Will they get a share of the money earned/saved? Unlikely. Will they even get the kudos or will it be taken by someone higher up in the chain? If you have a great idea, try starting your own company with it.

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  20. Innovation == Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For me innovation has just become a Microsoft buzzword. I cringe everytime I hear it, but luckily I don't read Microsoft groupthink too often.

  21. Re:Shit World 2007 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Goals are over rated. Some of us still value the process and the effort. If this is truly the case, come work for me for no paycheck. We'll see how long you truly desire the effort with no reward. Shut yer pie-hole, dumbass. Working for no paycheck is equivalent to saying "let me work on inventing shit, and I guarantee you won't make a dime off what I come up with, ever".

    See the problem with your childish analogy yet?
  22. Re:Shit World 2007 by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think you have it mixed up. The goal of running a business is to make money. If innovating helps you make money, then that's great. If it doesn't help make money, then there's little point for the business to take part in it. Innovating can give you an edge with the competition, but it's an endless cycle, so the edge is often short-lived.

  23. Heloooooo????? by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1
    Helloooo???? Anybody home?

    Reality check 101: a CEO's job is to maximize profits. That's all, folks.

    So anything that doesn't bring-in a fat bottom-line right now can't stand a chance.

    1. Re:Heloooooo????? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      No, a CEO's job is to set the strategic direction and maximize profits over the long term. That's more complicatewd than doing whatever makes the most money right now.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  24. Re:Shit World 2007 by kiracatgirl · · Score: 1

    I thought the "goal" of eating was to, well, not die. And I didn't think living had a goal, really. I think you're confusing goal with final outcome...

  25. Re:Shit World 2007 by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    That roof and food are your bottom line, chum. At the end of the day, you too count beans.

  26. Re:Shit World 2007 by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

    Hollywood is almost never a good example of anything. I really don't think their problems are centered around money, though it is a significant contributor. The hours are horrible, I was listening to a show where some guy made a documentary suggesting that the hours be brought down to twelve hours as a hard limit because longer days are a health threat, hurts marriages and so on. As you might have seen, the culture & gossip in Hollywood can be vicious too.

  27. no innovation in large companies by consumer · · Score: 1

    In large companies, "innovation" is defined as a VP deciding to switch from one multi-million dollar commercial software package to another, in order to look like something is happening. Large companies tend not to trust their in-house staff to come up with anything. This is why I now work for small companies that can't afford to ignore their employees.

    1. Re:no innovation in large companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right on the money.

      CIO types generally have no technical ability. They only excel in self-promotion and brown-nosing. They would not know innovation and cost saving if it came and bit them on the ass. They prefer the status quo when it advances their personal interests. No one ever got fired for doing nothing. If I leave a vendor system in place - I can blame someone else should something happen. The only question that comes to mind when they are evaluating a new system is "how can I get credit for this?", not "what is best for the company?" or "how to save money?". After all, they reason - it's only the company's money.

  28. Re:Shit World 2007 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This basically all sounds like, "give me free money."

    Most people say that in one form or another. This is one of the many ways in which CEOs do.

  29. Risk is inherent in innovation. by Ginnungagap42 · · Score: 1

    We did nott get to where we are today without failures. We learn from our failures. "Risk-free innovation" is a fantasy, pure and simple.

    1. Re:Risk is inherent in innovation. by Ginnungagap42 · · Score: 1

      (Oops! Hit "submit" too soon.)

      If CEO's are frightened by this concept, they should get out of business.

  30. Re:Shit World 2007 by nschubach · · Score: 1

    Don't just blame bean counters. Blame the "Me-Too" group. If Joe Sixpack gets a new Quad processor PC because he's good at writing multi-threaded applications that speed up the process and someone in the group complains that they didn't get it too... you have a problem that most companies will just say, "Fine! Stick with your single processor machines!" Because it would be too expensive and stupid to upgrade all the developers.

    Obviously, that's just an example. But people who innovate usually do things different than other people. They can sometimes take a longer lunch and skip breaks. They might leave their PC and go for a walk around the building to think about what the problem is (sometimes it helps.) Lo and behold, in steps the "Me-Too" and demands that they get to leave their station at will (to go sleep in the cafeteria.) Or they want to take a long lunch and get to leave early. Then the bean counter's step in.

    --
    Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  31. Re:Shit World 2007 by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    No. They eat to live with defecation necessary to clear the tract. The other reasons are a layer after the first is satisfied. Go truly hungry for a while and see if you care if the food tastes good or is presented properly.

    You also have the sequence incorrect. Need is the driver of creativity which produces invention. Apes trade things for food (sex) with no invention involved. So no, at the most rudimentary level the CEO came before creativity.

  32. CEO's Want Something For Nothing by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No budget to work with. Few quality (i.e. expensive) employees. No wonder they are dissatisfied with innovation.

    If they want innovation, they need to understand not all ideas pay out. It's not unlike venture capital - it takes money to make money and not everything hits paydirt.

    As long as CEOs keep wanting to do this crap on the cheap, they will be dissatisfied with the results.

    1. Re:CEO's Want Something For Nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is ridiculous to give a percentage for "not enough ideas". The amazing thing about new ideas is that you can't know you're missing out on a great idea - it hasn't been had.
      The only type of idea you can know you're missing is a solution to a given problem that you've already identified.

    2. Re:CEO's Want Something For Nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In baseball, you're a hero if you have a .300 batting average. That's 30% -- equal to a severely failing grade in school. "Good" players... you know, the ones that make mere millions each year, have a .250 batting average. If corporations relented and decided they were happy with 30% success with R&D projects, perhaps this story would be different. Instead, the story talks of complaints that most/all swings don't result in home runs.

    3. Re:CEO's Want Something For Nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's true that in many large corporations (I experienced two in the range of 3000+ people) the research dept regularly has to accept engineers that happen to look useless elsewhere. While there remain indeed some good guys (generally young graduates), the dept as a whole generally ends containing 70-90% of unefficient guys. The brilliant ones are never released by their bosses elsewhere in the organization. Worse even, when you reach this status, the research dept won't attract any brilliant guys anymore (including for its management hierarchy) and you really have a problem to change the trend. Companies like Google that indeed implement brilliant researchers must be very rich beforehand to allow themselves the manpower investment...

  33. There IS a real problem here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...and it's usually sitting behind the CIO's desk.

    What this is telling us is that we have good ideas, but we're not realizing gains from them.

    Well, some obvious culprits:
    * Poor identification of what ideas will be the ones to generate returns. In a number of large company, the CIO is personally making these decisions, based on proposals that bubble up through several layers of management. That means the person with the idea isn't advocating it, and there are also a number of people in the process who's primary responsibility isn't being innovative. Ideas get trapped by not being someone's "pet project" or having a poor advocate.
    * Poor processes. Quite a lot of organizations have significant bureaucratic oversight of project process. This can limit the pace at which innovation is delivered (witness the revolution in Agile development). The main conculusion is that the CIO will get more, better, faster by NOT making the process as burdensome, and even trading off some of his "certainty" about the results.
    * Poor projections for truly innovative products. A lot of "management" managers, who don't really understand technology, make decisions based on cost vs/ expected returns. This means you're insisting on seeing an expected return and an expected cost up front, before the project even starts. These are estimates, meaning they're largely guesses. And while this is necessary to some degree, putting too much emphasis on "the bottom line" at this point can be counterproductive. Notably, it weights towards "similar to known"/"safe" projects, rather than game breaking opportunities where "well, we don't really know what the return will be" projects.
    * Poor planning. Many large organizations budget on a yearly cycle, and will lay out the budgets based on the current backlog of products. This can be very difficult to change. Which means the average idea sits 6 months before the next budget cycle before it even possibly gets into next year's plan, and even then it's not clear when it will be delivered. There's no leftover budget for someone to recognize "this is a HUGE idea and we need to act now to capture this opportunity." Too many people treat the software industry like the construction industry, where you can "plan and forget" for the year. A lot of companies compound this by making managers and exec's objectives tied to specific projects--now you have people incentivized to deliver on "the plan" and ignore new ideas, even if they think the new idea is more important/better than the planned project.

    1. Re:There IS a real problem here... by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      Were you on this planet before "engineering" meant something other than computer software/hardware? In my job I find that "technology" often hinders and/or slows down actual innovation and "real" engineering.

  34. Re:Shit World 2007 by aled · · Score: 0

    Then do it on your own time.


    Just right. Mod parent +6 Insightful please.
    --

    "I think this line is mostly filler"
  35. Re:Shit World 2007 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank god/evolution I'm not an ape! :)

  36. Re:Shit World 2007 by Kjella · · Score: 1

    That's great if you're trying to figure out what to do with your life. But if I'm sitting in management trying to figure out how much of my budget to allocate to innovation, I won't be the one doing or feeling the "process and the effort". Technically I'm not even interested in the deliverables, because I'm not a end user and scientific research is something the rest of the world can do. I just want to know how much this will affect my bottom line - if it makes or saves money.

    If I go out to the store and buy milk and bread, do I really care how the "process and the effort" was for the people producing it? Nah, I want to know how it hits my wallet. And maybe something about the quality of the product. Perhaps even if there was child labour or animal testing or whatever involved. But it's not like I'm going to take a real personal interest in the process and effort. At least in higher management you're just as detached, employee satisfaction is statistics on turnover and salary requirements, in other words money.

    Most people take pride in and value the work that they do. But that's very different from what you value in deliverables from others. So yes, good point but I really don't think it applies here.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  37. Re:Shit World 2007 by epine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this is truly the case, come work for me for no paycheck.

    Card carrying member of the all-or-nothing crowd? Some of us still value shades of grey. But I can suspend that momentarily.

    While we're in the process of doing a root-canal on human dignity, what is it about human nature that connects such a worthless rejoinder directly to the kneecap? A lot of people in history have worked for no paycheck, and there's a name for that, although it's hard to get creative work out of people under those conditions.

    Fast forward history from the primal snarl, the dilemma arises where one profit-oriented sweatshop industrialist finds himself undercut by an even more ruthless profit-oriented sweatshop industrialist. He needs an edge. Maybe even an idea. But where to get such a thing? He certainly can't produce one himself, that might cut into his ego-maintenance time. No, his only recourse is to shackle himself a golden goose, one of those notorious flakes who has not fully and properly internalized the value that life is all about money.

    Or if not money, honor. For example, if I work a machine shop and lose my hand, I get compensation. If I work for the military and I lose my life, I get a flag. The military has a similar never-ending connundrum: how to recruit without paying people commensurate to the risk and sacrifice involved. Amp up the service and loyalty and nation-under-threat rhetoric. It works for business too. Just amp up the "it's all about money", or bare a fang while leering "come work for free", and play it up as a fair rejoinder. The rhetoric "it's all about money" does not speak to money, it speaks to subordination, and primal greeds satisfied by one person controlling another. Any person who goes around reminding others of their primal needs is all about control. I once witnesses a person purporting to be an angel investor who came into the meeting room and filled an entire white-board with the two words: FEAR and GREED. That was on there the whole time he spoke, and another week afterwards. We were too intimidated to erase it.

  38. Market Realities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    [i]Reality check 101: a CEO's job is to maximize profits. That's all, folks.
    So anything that doesn't bring-in a fat bottom-line right now can't stand a chance.[/i]

    I hope you realize the difference between the 2 statements you made, because it's important.

    The CEO's job is to maximize returns for the shareholders.

    This is DIFFERENT FROM a need to maximize that return for each quarter. In theory, if a CEO had an opportunity to underperform by 10% this quarter, but that would result in overperformance by 5% over the following 8 quarters, then he SHOULD do that. It's a profitable long-term investment which maximizes the total return to shareholders, even with reasonable discounting of the future returns.

    Unfortunatly, many CEO's don't value the long term. And much of the problem is investors. There are huge reactions to current quarter results, and not a lot of value given to future investments. The way the system is structured, most CEO's are incentivized (and evaluated) on a "win now" framework. Like I said, I blame investors as much as CEO's for this, but there you are.

    The CEO's need to get "a fat bottom-line right now" is NOT, in many cases, long-term profit maximizing.

    I find it ironic that the same investors who reward short-term thinking are the same ones who complain in many cases about not being innovative.

    1. Re:Market Realities by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      That's exactly the kind of market efficiency that should get "quickly" lapped up by savvy investors and long-term thinking board members. Such a company should easily out-compete short-term thinking in most markets, so there should be plenty of counter-examples to your claim.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  39. Re:Shit World 2007 by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    Technically I'm not even interested in the deliverables, because I'm not a end user and scientific research is something the rest of the world can do. I just want to know how much this will affect my bottom line - if it makes or saves money.

    Just so. And this is what makes America great.

    Or so I'm told.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  40. Maybe... by lordvalrole · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They need to stop fucking the little guy over. You start screwing employees out of their royalties or bonuses or benefits. You are going to see a lot less people innovating for these big ass corporations and end up making their own damn products on the side. Only to end up getting sued by every other corporation. This is the major problem with business today. There is too much suing going on for any innovation to go on. It seems to me like all the innovating goes on in colleges that were funded by the government. I am sure a lot of research being done is for our military.

    Right now anything remotely interesting ends up getting sued out of business. I am tired of companies not learning how to adapt to new technology *especially web technology*

    There is a whole world of innovation out there but the problem is that it costs too much whether it be money or the threat of getting sued out of existence...it is a huge risk now to start up your own business or even bring to the table innovative products to your own corporations.

    I refer to office space a lot because a huge portion of it is true in business practices. If I make an effort to do my job plus try to save the company money...plus be innovative and I bring it up the ranks. Do you think I will compensated for that amazing job? Fuck no. You either get a miserable raise and/or a kick in the nuts.

    Welcome to the corporate world of mass fuckery

  41. Re:Shit World 2007 by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When is ones time not their own? If your job is to stuff N widgets into boxes per hour, and it takes you 45 minutes, what business is it of anyone to tell you to stop using that 15 minutes figuring out to get it to 30?

    Oh, let me guess, you're one of those jackasses under the delusion that employment is some sort of master / slave relationship. Here's a little reality check for the aspiring Lumbergh: The master is whoever costs more to replace.

    Besides, the point of money is to fuck the hottest chicks, eat the best food, and die with the most toys, so this whining is counterproductive. If the employee and the CEO aren't on the same page about getting more money, you've got bigger problems than IT costs.

  42. Innovation seems to happen once (only) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can think of a couple of local companies that were started as a result of the founder's post-grad work. A product was developed, found a market and the company got big. Unfortunately, no more (or at least not much) innovation happened. The company will keep going until the market goes away and then the company will cease to exist.

    The trouble is that too many companies last too long. They don't innovate and their mere existance prevents the birth of new companies that do innovate. Microsoft springs immediately to mind.

  43. wow by SolusSD · · Score: 1

    you mean putting people in charge that don't understand a damn thing about your companies product doesn't breed innovation?

  44. And? by Seiruu · · Score: 1

    It is just me or does this article have a high "So what?" factor?

    The point of INVESTMENTS, because that's what the topic really is about, is the Return on Investment (ROI). Wow, never heard THAT one before.

    And not an abundance of IDEAS (which really are just thoughts everybody can have, so why wouldn't it be in abundance?) but the right (project) methodologies and the funding to carry out said ideas. Well, given that the majority of IT projects are not written off as "success" (however they wish to define it), I'm not reading anything new either.

    Oh, and while talking about IDEAS: they are certainly NOT to be confused with GOOD ideas that can actually effectively and efficiently address a certain issue in a certain environment, and with at least a conceptual planning to realize that good idea in the right context to tackle said issues. As everybody can write a paper, but not everybody can write a paper with a significant/original subject, sound (carried out) methodology, and a well written report of all that and have it go through peer reviews and accepted for publication.

    As for weird short speech about goals being overrated: goals are by definition the purpose of the thing you do. So to say something as ridiculous as goals being overrated, and enjoying the process and effort is a bit silly. Process of what? Effort in what? To achieve an objective, a goal. That's what. People eat with survival as goal. You apparently eat food because you simply enjoy eating (thus your goal would be consuming something for the sake of feeling good) and apparently while not being hungry (thus your goal is not to still your hunger).

    Goals are not overrated at all, perspectives are.

    1. Re:And? by Seiruu · · Score: 1

      Hey I have an idea for innovation: an edit button! Woohoo!

      [quote]And not an abundance of IDEAS (which really are just thoughts everybody can have, so why wouldn't it be in abundance?) but the right (project) methodologies and the funding to carry out said ideas.[/quote]

      And the amount of IDEAS (which really are just thoughts everybody can have, so why wouldn't it be in abundance?) are apparently not the problem, but the lack of the right (project) methodologies and the funding to carry out said ideas.

      Oh and btw, starvation is not a pleasant feeling for many, would you say you ate to not starve? Is that one way of eating "for pleasure"? Would that go against your feelgood stance of eating for a predetermined purpose and not by freewill?

      Goals overrated? Puh lease!

  45. Maybe they shouldnt overhyped it that much by unity100 · · Score: 1

    "innovation innovation innovation innovation" - everyone is repeating it like parrots. you cant just innovate every f**kin month. even not every f**kin year. before they even start widely using an innovation that is made, management starts crapping around about a 'new innovation'. maybe thats because they are actually not adding any real value to the company and feel like they are doing it when they do the innovation blabbering.

  46. CEOs and bean counters stifle innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is truly ironic. I think someone said above that the CEOs can't see past the 13 week window, and this has been exactly right in almost every place that I have worked for. This was especially prevalent in the last place I was employed, where the company started off as THE innovator of the products that they sold, but failed to improve to this day, and now they are sending emails to their technical support people asking them to report any "customer attrition" concerns to their direct manager, so that sales can apply the full court press on these customers that are shopping around. The company has an influx of hundreds of millions of dollars in money to use to innovate and create, but somehow the money keeps going elsewhere and the company stands mired in quicksand. As the CEO takes vacations to New Zealand...

  47. Blue Sky research is what is most lacking by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's the kind of research that simply INVENTS new weird shit that is what is so tragically dying in the world of American technology. The Bell Labs of the world are now in the university systems, but they are frequently tied to corporate donors (for better and worse) and are further problematised by society's need to educate people to be something other than simple cogs in the industrial machine - making them well rounded, critically thinking, discerning citizens is also of great importance. As a consequence, the need for innovation in research as downloaded to the level of university destabilises itself over time as time/mind share is increasingly directed to the mercantile demands of the corporate masters.


    This is not a good thing. We need more blue sky deep research - research with NO profit motive - its where the real ground-breaking stuff happens. Keep science away from bean-counters. They will eviscerate it the same way they gutted the Arts and Humanities.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:Blue Sky research is what is most lacking by jet_silver · · Score: 1

      Funny this should come up. I just left a company where "innovation" was stated as a core value, except you had better not do any of that unless it was guaranteed to work. The CEO of that place is an accountant and he treats "innovation" as something you sprinkle on mediocre profits to get better ones.

      Inventing things involves taking risk, that the hole you're digging is going to come up dry. That's the way it is; if you could -guarantee- innovation you're much too valuable to be an employee because you're a real magician.

      During the interviews for my new job I was pretty careful to sound the staff out about what happens when something new you're trying doesn't work. The answer was "document and move on", because they have a way of reviewing these dry holes from time to time and seeing if new avenues to solve problems have surfaced. I thought that was more reasonable. The CEO of this place is a physicist.

  48. Maybe it's because you're an obnoxious twerp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't like where you work? Then quit bitching about it and find a job you like.

    Because I'm sure your attitude isn't well hidden from your employers.

  49. 99% of inventive employees dissatisfied with CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subject says it all.

  50. Re:Shit World 2007 by drsquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then pay for it yourself. Seriously, become a CEO in a company, or start your own company. Then you can throw money around however you want, but you'll be responsible for the consequences.

  51. The problem is bean counting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The biggest obstacle in IT innovation is the fact that so many IT departments are overseen by accounting departments. If you can't create a concrete quantifiable measurement of the impact a system change will have, then you won't get approval for it from the bean counting morons upstairs. Not everything is concretely measurable. For example, how do you accurately quantify the effects of a change that greatly increases employee morale before the change has been made? I'd say doing that is a crap shoot at best. Does that mean the change isn't worthwhile? No.

    On top of that, corporations that measure department success based on their impact on the bottom line always look down at the IT department because they see it as an expense. What doesn't seem to click in their minds is the fact that the success of their entire business often hinges on the functionality of their IT systems. Nobody likes to acknowledge that until an IT system stops working and the whole business grinds to a halt. You'd think people would be more willing to invest in something that's so critical to success in today's world.

  52. Innovation? How about entrepreneurship? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is BS. Total BS. Everybody really *KNOWS* what drives innovation - creative, intelligent and capable people taking risks, preferably expecting some personal benefit from the risk. The payoff need not be financial, but there must be a payoff.

    CEO's and other high-level executives are paid to pump the stock price, and the easiest way to do so is through liquidation of assets (layoffs, selloffs, attrition, or the occasional stupid acquisition). Most executives are non-technical, financial managers. They are risk averse. In America at least, innovation is basically dead except for startups. There is a reason, for instance, that big Pharma and the medical device manufacturers are suffering. They are dominated by risk averse individuals who won't, for their careers, accept failure. Failure is how people learn. Failure can be an indication of risk taking. Unfortunately, failure is also how tort lawyers make money and how executives get canned.

    What *possible* incentive does a career scientist, engineer or IT contributor have to take risk in a large organization? The payout is non-existent (except for individual gratification, and this skews the projects on which someone is willing to invest their discretion in choosing), and taking the risk could result in career suicide.

  53. The problem is the CEOs, not innovaters... by GoMMiX · · Score: 1

    We keep working so hard to ship all our jobs overseas then these pricks want to say they are dissatisfied with innovation?

    It's no wonder innovation in the US is lacking, severely. I mean, seriously - how many people do you know in the US who have a job where innovation is even allowed? Not many - not many at all. Actually, not many of the people I know even work in information or research fields anymore - all their jobs have been shipped overseas and filled by H1-B visa workers who will work for nearly half the money.

    Another decade at this rate and the only thing America will be is a consumerist state - how we will all be consumers when there are 0 jobs here held by Americans is beyond me, though.

    1. Re:The problem is the CEOs, not innovaters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      like some parts of europe...

    2. Re:The problem is the CEOs, not innovaters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just ike in some parts of europe...

  54. Hence the start-up. by E++99 · · Score: 1

    Like the summary says, lack of ideas are not a problem. In fact, too many ideas are a problem in a large company. There is no satisfactory way to process all the ideas of all the people in the company and pick out the good from the bad. Everyone thinks their idea is good, but most are usually wrong. And a large company, if they don't have an R&D budget to devote to such things, just doesn't have the risk tolerance for trying untested things.

    That is why new small companies will always arise, and when successful, take the place of old companies. People with the REALLY good ideas are generally smart enough to see them through from the ground up, and accomplish something that no large company is even remotely flexible enough to achieve. This is also why innovation of this sort tends to happen only in the most business-friendly countries.

    1. Re:Hence the start-up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most large companies don't have the reward system and support system in place to nurture serious innovation except perhaps at designated research labs. They often talk about being innovative, but they don't walk the walk.

      If some engineer or small group of engineers had both an idea and the implementation skills to develop something that could make millions for the company, which would create or get the company into a new market segment, what would they have to do to make it work? Would they even be given time to do it, or are they crushed by their current workload of maintenance activity, meetings, and paperwork? Would they get commensurate rewards? Are there any recent success stories?

      Apple, Google and 3M might be exceptions. HP supposedly used to be in the pre-Carly days. Even here, things aren't so clear - many of Google's hits (apart from text search) were actually obtained through acquisition.

    2. Re:Hence the start-up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People with the REALLY good ideas are generally smart enough to see them through from the ground up, and accomplish something that no large company is even remotely flexible enough to achieve.

      There certainly are examples of those who have come up with ideas and followed through. However, unless you define REALLY good ideas as ideas which have been proven, I would disagree with your statement.

      Implementing an idea takes thought, effort, belief, resources, and risk. Coming up with ideas requires only the first.

  55. Why not invest the same as they expect by PotatoHead · · Score: 1

    others to do?

    The average CEO makes 400 times what their "innovators" do. So, take a cut, apply those dollars toward a return, then grow their salary by percentage of new revenue from innovation, rather than cutting costs.

  56. The goal of innovation by bitspotter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The goal of innovation is to make or save money, and IT should never lose sight of that central fact."

    Within the rather thin, anemic context of profit-seeking enterprises, yes.

    It's been apparent for years, however, that profit-seeking behavior presents one of the greatest obstructions to innovation, whose purpose is to actually help people (and not just "enterprises") to improve their conditions and lives. From proprietary software and web services EULAs, the DMCA and abuse of its takedown notice systems, incessant pointless copyright extensions, to incompetent patent granting system, you don't have to go far to at least reasonably wonder if "the bottom line" is failing to help innovation more than innovation os failing to help generate profits.

    There's a LOT more to life outside the grubbing business world, but judging by the prevalence of people making misleading statements like this, it's easy to forget.

  57. The flip side of that coin by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    The goal of innovation is to make or save money, and IT should never lose sight of that central fact.

    Even if IT doesn't, the customer can. I have one customer...a government entity...that I've worked pretty much the same way I'd treat a private side customer, with an eye toward efficiency and the bottom line. It's bought me nothing there. They spent a million dollars to take a working application developed by three people and give it to a team of 7 from another company to maintain. No fail over, they won't let it integrate with any other applications and, the final insult, they took over our server to host it. The customer will carve off services and outsource them, even if it costs more and the service isn't as good. Sometimes it's the same people maintaining the system, just working for a different company.

    Told them this year that I'm done. Can't do it anymore, it's just so frustrating. You try to do the right thing, work hard finding better ways to automate a process and they crap on all your research and best efforts in favor of something that costs more and will never work. I've seen them waste tens of millions on the same mistakes, over and over. Ironically they're very appreciative and don't want me to leave. Still haven't figured that out.

    Dissatisfaction is a two-way street in some IT shops. Before you start tap dancing on the IT folks for a lack of innovation, maybe try talking to them, just to make sure that you've addressed the barriers management might be erecting that hinder a more successful relationship.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  58. At the end of the day by mycall · · Score: 0

    "At the end of the day all that creativity".. Who else is sick to death of this expression (although I did find the article fascinating!)

  59. Re:Bullshit [OFF TOPIC] by kanweg · · Score: 1

    "This sig does not contain any SCO code."

    We beg to differ. In particular we noted the term "not", which is in our code. You are also infringing with individual characters, the nature and place of which we will not disclose until in court.

    Our lawyers will be in contact with you.

    D. McBride

  60. Revisionist semantics is like revisionist history by bombastinator · · Score: 1

    Change wikipedia, change the world!

    Retroactively redefining words is very handy for those who wish to manipulate public opinion. If one changes the words meaning there isw a period of time where the new word has the associations of the old before the public gets wise.
    One example of this is the term "ethnic cleansing". Ethnic cleansing used to be better known as Genocide. And they even got away with it for a while until the U.N. officially married the terms back together again. It took several years though.
    Another good example is when the Nazi party changed it's name to avoid certain obvious problems. There are even certain political extremist groups --ahem-Moral majority--Ahem-- That change their name about every 5 years or so to keep ahead of public opinion.

    What they are calling "innovation" here is NOT the original definition of the word.

    Real, which is to say unmanipulatable, dictionaries such as Webster define it more or less as something new. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Innovation Much more like the definition of invention as used here.
    If this were true terms like ideological innovation and scientific innovation would make no sense.

    The term "to innovate" as used here used to be called "to capitalize on" Capitalize has become a technical business term but the general definition used to be more like "to create profit from" http://www.english-test.net/toeic/vocabulary/words /158/toeic-definitions.php
    Capitalize as used here is again a word with negative connotations.

    The general source of this retroactive reinvention of the term is so far as I can tell, Microsoft. If in Microsoft's public statements one substitutes the term they begin to make a lot more sense. If this is done, by their own statemant, Microsoft does not make new things, they capitalize on other people's ideas.

    Perhaps this article's purpose is to remarry the terms. Much like the U.N.'s action on genocide/ethnic cleansing, but I felt clarification was in order.

  61. Science by simonbp · · Score: 1

    Invention without a financial return is just an expense Invention without a financial return is called science.

    It's what I do for living, though it's rather hard to make a business case that figuring out the decay rate of craters on Triton is going to enrich anyone financially. With hope though, it will enrich my fellow scientists and lead to a broader understanding of the solar system and our place it it. Can you put a price on that?

    Turning the question around, would you have asked Max Plank for a business case for quantum physics, 50 years before it was used to invent the transistor?

    Simon
    1. Re:Science by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      ---Invention without a financial return is called science.

      Better said, it is called a Loss.

      If one were a good scientist, they would tie their project in to a chance of gains for a few "buckets". One bucket could be the now-1 year, while another could be 1-5 years, while another could be 5 year-far future gains.

      Risk analysis could be done to determine what strategy would maximize gains. Any bean counter would understand this kind of analysis and be very conducive to this sort of data handling.

      I'd imagine that if I had 10% of my time for far future studies, I'd have leeway to do whatever I wanted, as long as I made a case for it.

      ---It's what I do for living, though it's rather hard to make a business case that figuring out the decay rate of craters on Triton is going to enrich anyone financially. With hope though, it will enrich my fellow scientists and lead to a broader understanding of the solar system and our place it it. Can you put a price on that?

      Yeah, I place 0$, along with a negative cost associated for a scientist not doing profitable research. So, I'd assign a -100000$ cost on that (valuing you at 100k/yr and 1 yr of work)

      In opposition to that would be lunar research. I could easily make a case in that we need to study the moon and all of its variables in that opposing interests could do the same, and possibly create better products in presence of its low gravity. Or I could say the same for space research in that we could diversify creation of certain hard-to-make objects easier in space.

      ---Turning the question around, would you have asked Max Plank for a business case for quantum physics, 50 years before it was used to invent the transistor?

      If it was profitable to create Planck's equations and to investigate quantum theory, it would have been done when needed.

      (All of this has been said if a Capitalist would have said it. Perhaps, Marx was right in that the main failing of Capitalism is that it does not take into consideration the aspect of the human condition: discovery.)

      --
    2. Re:Science by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      (All of this has been said if a Capitalist would have said it. Perhaps, Marx was right in that the main failing of Capitalism is that it does not take into consideration the aspect of the human condition: discovery.) No it's what a idiotic and foolish capitalist would say. It also shows a glaring inability to understand the complexities of modern society, the broad effect of science, the interconnected notion of science and the inherent inability to predict the future.
  62. Because .... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... innovation causes change.

    Change requires ongoing management attention.

    Ongoing management attention interferes with their afternoon golf games.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  63. Innovation is a word that means absolutely nothing by wardk · · Score: 1

    the industry has abused this word to the point it's meaningless bullshit meant to obscure the fact that no, there are no new ideas here.

  64. Re:Shit World 2007 by yada21 · · Score: 1

    Goals are over rated. Some of us still value the process and the effort.
    Nothing wrong with having a hobby.
    --
    I will have a sig when the market demands it.
  65. 99.99% of all CEOs are only in it for the money by forgoil · · Score: 1

    I really wish that more of them would care about a job well done and helping humanity...

    1. Re:99.99% of all CEOs are only in it for the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up, pinko.

    2. Re:99.99% of all CEOs are only in it for the money by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Theoretically if they'd put the overall business health ahead of other concerns, such as their personal greed or, and this is hard for many self proclaimed freemaketers to grasp, ahead of a pack of stockholders only looking for a quick buck, the good things will arise from the general prosperity. I know the Left refuses to abandon their "Prosperity = Evil" religion, but that's the way it is. You get that plus the Right's "Quick Gain = Holy Grail" and the whole thing is a mess.

      Summary: ideologies are mental illnesses. :-)

    3. Re:99.99% of all CEOs are only in it for the money by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I was going to say something similiar. You think the teenage kid at McDonalds enjoys being humuliated by his customers? OR does he work there to get money for school or for a car? What about the custodian cleaning your office?

      Yes we all do things for money. Its the most efficient reward that works better than anything else. Sure some people hate their jobs or whom they work for but most mature folks will simply seek another employer. Thats life and nothing would get done otherwise. If you have a job you enjoy then good for you because your in the minority.

      If your in a nice cushy job that compensates well then your going to do a damn good job in order to keep it. My wife and I noticed this when we got our first real high paying or I should say middle class jobs when we were lower class previously.

    4. Re:99.99% of all CEOs are only in it for the money by Cathbard · · Score: 1
      But that is simply the nature of corporatism. Everything is about money; ethics is something you comply with when the media is watching. It's simply the new feudalism. Instead of owning the people they own the output of the people. Same outcome but the bosses have no responsibility to look after those that keep them in the luxury they have come to expect.

      And if an employee invents something does he get any benefit from it? Of course not, the corporation owns it. Oh all hail "work for hire"!! The new method that the rich enslave the poor. Now THAT'S progress!!!

      --
      "A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" - Sir Humphrey Appleby
    5. Re:99.99% of all CEOs are only in it for the money by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      I never get the "we owe it to the shareholders" mentality. there's two basic shareholder types: 1. Day traders or people looking for a quick buck. If they can even explain what your company does, it's a good day on that front. Fuck those guys. 2. Institutional investors who would probably rather you planned for the long term anyway because *they* do.

    6. Re:99.99% of all CEOs are only in it for the money by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Agreed which is why I would prefer to remain private with a few investors if I owned a business rather than sell out to wallstreet.

      But they have a right to dictate and many times the CEO's got gready and wanted huge overcompensation at the trade of losing control of their company at public opening.

      Jobs are just jobs even if your boss is a nutcase who wants to satisfy investors who have no idea who you or he is.

  66. Re:Shit World 2007 by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If I go out to the store and buy milk and bread, do I really care how the "process and the effort" was for the people producing it? Nah, I want to know how it hits my wallet.

    This post is the single most alien thing I've ever read on slashdot. How can you possibly not wonder about that? You even go so far as to glorify your own ignorance of the world around you?

    --
    Everything will be taken away from you.
  67. This is a slashdot article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For a moment I thought this was a joke headline.

    No duh, I mean that's the job of CEOs, to lead their flock into profit-land, so of course "they're dissatisfied with innovation." Pretty much choose anything that you wish were faster, more efficient, or improved, and then you can say that you're dissatisfied with it.

  68. Re:Innovation is a word that means absolutely noth by bombastinator · · Score: 1

    the term for changing a words meaning is bastardization. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox- a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=x5X&defl=en&q= define:bastardization&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition& ct=title

    The term for deliberately acting to obscure the truth is known as lying.
    http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=lying

    It would be reasonable to assume therefore that the people who do this could accurately be called "Lying Bastards"

  69. Consider hotel soap... by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    Motels did not use to have soap in the rooms.

    Imagine today, a hotel that didn't offer little bars of soap.

    that's an innovation, that only COST money..
    and continues to do so today...

    is it a bad innovation or a necassary one?

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  70. Who enjoys appearing inept? by ChilyWily · · Score: 1

    The article is a bit self-limiting because it pertains only to IT related innovation. Yet, some of the points raise may just as well be extended to other technology domains.

    My experience says that for the vast majority of companies, business finances overwhelm every other facet of the business. And that is not at all unexpected - if you want to remain alive, you have to watch where your money goes and comes from. However, going beyond this conventional logic, I've also noticed that even well established companies, with deep pockets, never seem to get out of that logic at all. Sadly, the motivation isn't to spend today to incubate for tomorrow, but more like, use today and re-package the same stuff for tomorrow so that the upfront cost may be saved and the lust for instant gratification (by the CEO, Investors etc.) may be satiated. The business focused organization deals strictly on numbers and innovates by mergers and acquisitions.

    I'm not sure I agree with their definition of 'innovation' (again perhaps they refer to a strictly IT perspective which I don't claim to understand). True innovation takes time, determination and a vision. While money may condense time and allow for a more determined effort, vision requires initiative. (read: sticking your neck out because of a true passionate desire to realize your idea). Most business types don't want to risk their lucrative careers/bonuses on that - so in comes the bureaucracy to sustain this 'incremental' model. No surprise that most large companies/governments/entities suffer from bureaucracies that destroy initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines.

    Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?

  71. You get what you pay for (e.g. offshoring) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Let's see: CEOs fire dedicated long-term IT employees who understand the business, hire the cheapest offshore subs they can find, and then act surprised that they're not getting top-notch work. Who would have guessed?

  72. Re:Revisionist semantics is like revisionist histo by Rockin'+Az · · Score: 1

    Interesting point that you make. In the field of economics and political economy, though, innovation is capitalising on a new idea or process. Mr Joe Citizen might be the inventor the assembly line (or perhaps the idea of the assembly line). Mr Henry Ford, was the innovator when he applied the idea to car manufacturing (please note I'm not suggesting Ford didn't invent the assembly line as well - just making a point).

    Words only have meaning within a context. Richard Rorty wrote about this quite a bit. Revisionist semantics happens when you re-interpret a text based on a different (normally more modern) definition of a word. This article was written in the context of modern economics and used a modern economics understanding of the word "innovation".

    For someone not from an economics or political economy background it is entirely probable that a reader might think this is a manipulation of the language. However, the use of innovation in this context has been around for most of the 20th century (certainly since the days of Schumpeter).

    Revisionist semantics IS like revisionist history - but this isn't revisionist semantics. It is the normal process of language.

    --

    I come from a LAN down under

    Where the packets flow and routers chunder

  73. In other news, overpaid CEOs outsourced by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    for cheaper European and Japanese CEOs who work for 1/20th the pay and think that growing the business is more important than fancy presentations that mean nothing about "innovations".

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  74. In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The guy not only has to bring the balls, the gloves, the bats, the bases and the other players, but advertise, bring the audience, give them free beers and entertain them all at the same time, just so they can all be successful and keep their own jobs? Is the innovator the only person who has a job to remain competitive and increase productivity?

    I used to love the "innovative project meeting" where all the *really* difficult tasks, like the transition and integration you mentioned, were assigned to (out of 12 people) the innovative technical leader. Because they were the only people who could be bothered to understand it... Unless, of course, it included sitting on the lap of a CxO while training, hand holding some backward manager, or walking around spreading gossipy news of the "new" system.

    That is why glacial organizations and the people stuck within suck, if not now, soon enough.

    1. Re:In other words... by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      I'm not asking researchers to do everything, but they sure the hell should do more.

      Many researchers seem to think that management has or should have infinite resources, wisdom, and patience, so that they can capture every idea the researcher has, fully understand its signficance, and immediately bring it to market. Dream on.

      Many criticisms of management are valid, but in the end they have limited resources like everyone else. I find researchers more guilty of not understanding their job. Many simply don't want to make the effort to bring ideas to fruition - they figure that supplying the "genius" is enough, and it's the responsibility of management to take everthing from there. Such researchers need a kick in the arse, and be told what their real jobs are.

    2. Re:In other words... by porpnorber · · Score: 1

      The manager is the specialist whose job is to hire and coordinate the other specialists who, in their turn, get the job done. If innovation is a specialisation which is frequently not found in the same person as internal marketing and deployment, and the manager does nothing to ensure that these additional skills that enable the innovation to achieve positive payoff are covered by other members of the team, this is the manager's failing. The innovator is not empowered to change the composition of the team; the manager is.

      A manager who is doing his or her job does not whine (having bought a pen) 'this pen does not work' when the obvious options are (a) learn to write or (b) hire a scribe. This situation is no different.

      Of course, it may be a canny career move for an innovator to acquire additional social engineering skills, enabling them to work effectively in a smaller team and/or with less able managers. But then again an innovator may have higher priorities, such as acquiring additional technical skills, or indeed performing further innovation. In fact, the entire motivation for the corporate environment is to allow each person to play to their strengths, to enable specialisation. In particular, the managers' typical objective in a technology department is to use their 'people' skills to exploit the potential of those who have 'things' skills and lack 'people' skills themselves.

      Finally, of course, managers should be careful what they wish for. If the researchers did in fact decide that the system had failed them, that they needed to perform their own management, and that they were going to fight directly for the cash rather than focusing on the fun stuff and leaving the management to the managers, the IQ 105 managers would then find themselves up against a new breed of IQ 185 competitors who, while less experienced, were pissed off at them and actively trying to take them down. I don't think anyone would be having any fun, then. Fortunately for everyone, it's usually easier to find another job.

    3. Re:In other words... by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1
      It's bloody hard for a research manager to his or her job well when researchers aren't doing theirs, which at a bare minimum is to:
      • Come up with (or otherwise discover) ideas that have the potential to signficantly help the business.
      • Explain with the utmost clarity what these ideas are, how they might be implemented given the current situation, and at least guess at what the costs, risks, and potential benefits are.
      • Do whatever else they can help implement the idea without worrying too much about whose job it's supposed to be.
      Not many researchers do that, which is to say there aren't many really good corporate researchers out there.


      This fantasy that there should always be a team of specialists standing by to implement every brain fart a researcher has is just that - a fantasy. In the real world things are far messier, no matter how good the management. Corporate researchers must get involved in the real world and not be afraid to get their hands dirty. And they just might learn something in the process.

    4. Re:In other words... by JoshHeitzman · · Score: 1

      If the researcher can do all of that, then why wouldn't they just go start their own company so they can:
      1. Come up with ideas that have the potential to help someone with a problem and money to throw at it
      2. Explain with the utmost clarity what these ideas are to people with money and a problem, how the ideas might be implemented given the customer's current situation, and estimate the costs, risks, and potential benefits.
      3. Implement the idea for the customer.

      --
      Software Inventor
    5. Re:In other words... by porpnorber · · Score: 1

      You say, 'It's bloody hard for a research manager to his or her job well when researchers aren't doing theirs' - my point is merely that the converse is, if anything, even more true. Indeed, the only real quibble I have with what you have just said is that it is not, as you perhaps imply, the researcher's job alone to estimate the costs, risks and benefits of a course of action - nor even to articulate them. Typically, many of the costs, risks and benefits are of an institutional, social or political nature, and the kind of explanation of an idea that is going to be wanted by those higher up the management chain is something that cannot be arrived at by someone with a purely technical background working alone. Thus the manager, too, has a responsibility to 'do what they can to implement the idea without worrying too much about whose job it's supposed to be.' Note, however, that the defining function of the researcher is that they do research; the defining function of the manager is that they manage. All else has to be done somehow, by someone, with skills that can be located or developed, and if typically helps a lot if the manager is willing to manage that. This is not a fantasy about a team standing around to catch 'brain farts', it is rational behaviour when trying to achieve maximum payoff from a set of assets.

    6. Re:In other words... by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      My point is not that researchers need be brilliant at everything and do everything - only that it's not enough for them just to be good at some technical field. They must also have some understanding of the business, and be able to communicate with that business in a meaningful way.

  75. Enhanced Creative Thinking And Innovation by NovaThinker · · Score: 1

    Businesses need new ideas to remain successful, competitive and efficient, and the demand for innovation is accelerating. The case for creative thinking software in business: Improve creative thinking productivity at a fundamental level throughout a business and benefit from the resulting explosive growth in new thinking, new ideas, innovation and change! CompXpress Creator Studio(TM) creative thinking software for business enhances creative thinking productivity on demand. Creator Studio helps individuals and teams create new ideas for new products and services, new business solutions and innovations. Creator Studio helps business people everywhere harness the creative thinking power of their entire organization.
    Wishing you many Great Ideas! The CompXpress Team

  76. CEOs must be ignorant about innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The goal of innovation is to make or save money, and IT should never lose sight of that central fact.

    Well, no wonder so many CEOs are unhappy with the state of innovation in the USA. They are, once again, utterly clueless. Only a finance guy could make such an, I hate to say it, but such an ignorant statement as that.

    It's shocking to me to see how few of the major innovations have been made based on their rate of return. I'm guessing... zero? Was the invention of the integrated circuit a money thing? No, it couldn't have been since it was done on a US government cost+ contract for NASA. It was done to save weight, save energy, and vastly improve reliability. Did we invent A/C to save money or to make high rise office buildings tenable in the summer? Did we figure out how to spray paint to save money or to improve surface finish?

    Tell me again what the vast majority of CEOs bring to the table to earn their hugely inflated salaries and benefits packages? Are they really stupid enough to think that saying IT is a profit center will make it so?

  77. Too much innovation is bad for business by dircha · · Score: 1

    Innovation and entering or even creating new markets can lead to a company becoming defocused and stretched too thin when those new markets do not compliment its core competencies. Your software company would never consider entering the coal mining drilling rig market even if you came to your CEO with a proposal for the most safe and efficient coal mining drilling rig ever conceived, not even if he or she believed it.

    Innovation within an existing market that your company dominates in marketshare can lead to market segmentation. If your company has 60% marketshare in the XYZ consumer software market, and no one else individually has more than 15%, coming out with radically innovative improvements (changes) to your product line may cause your customers to jump ship to your smaller competitors. Customers want steady, incremental improvement. This incremental improvement should be targeted at winning new sales to expand your marketshare, and take the wind out of the sales of your competitors. In many cases it may be cheaper to simply acquire your small competition outright and thereby add their marketshare to your own.

    It may also be a poor business decision to innovate faster than the market demands, thereby playing your cards too soon. If you dominate your market, you would think long and hard about developing and releasing a product that improves on the state of the art by 10 years, when the market only demands a 1 year improvement. Dramatically increasing the state of the art in an established market you dominate likely will not produce revenue growth proportional to the cost of development, marketing, and release, compared to the 1 year advancement.

  78. Enhanced Creative Thinking And Innovation by NovaThinker · · Score: 1

    Businesses need new ideas to remain successful, competitive and efficient, and the demand for innovation is accelerating. The case for creative thinking software in business: Improve creative thinking productivity at a fundamental level throughout a business and benefit from the resulting explosive growth in new thinking, new ideas, innovation and change! CompXpress Creator Studio(TM) creative thinking software for business enhances creative thinking productivity on demand. Creator Studio helps individuals and teams create new ideas for new products and services, new business solutions and innovations. Creator Studio helps business people everywhere harness the creative thinking power of their entire organization.
    Wishing you many Great Ideas! The CompXpress Team

  79. Re:Shit World 2007 by obarel · · Score: 1

    Yes, a nation of managers who couldn't care less whether they're working for Nike, the car industry, the tobacco industry, or the weapon industry.

    As long as the money keeps rolling in, they're doing their job and can sleep at night.

    When you don't care about the product you're selling, how exactly do you motivate your staff? I hope you have a very long whip and a very strong hand...

  80. Re:Revisionist semantics is like revisionist histo by bombastinator · · Score: 1

    and how long has that been true? It sure as heck wasn't when I was in school.

    inovate is a term already in use. And usable within the the discipline in question for other things. An economic innovation would be something like money(arguably around since monkeys), double entry book keeping (~13th century) Or all those fine equations talked about in that "A Beautiful Mind" movie.
    It would not be

    Interestingly enough it is also the only definition in wikipedia, (the one where money can buy keystrokes which can buy definitions) which is downright suspicious. It was also not listed as such in the webster's section.

    Most of the Google listings where I saw it in the capitalistic sense were pretty much tech oriented, which is a place where the origional definition is most certainly the most appropriate.

  81. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the innovatores see CEOs making millions from their innovations, so that's a bit of a damper.

    Job requirements:

    Innovator: Constantly innovate under the threat of being replaced by college new hire.

    CEO: Act like motherfucking asshole shitbag sociopath in all facets of life, and loot the company assets for a golden parachute when the sea of noobs can't innovate like a solid core of experienced designers.

    Fuck CEOs. Fuck MBAs. Fuck business schools which are nothing but training grounds that reduce once human people into to beings of pure, concentrated assholium. Even Ayn Rand would kick these modern leeches right in the nuts.

    Watch that stupid Donald Trump show. At the end of an episode, if you don't want to drop an Ebola bomb on the whole cast, you were not paying attention, or your brain has been overnumbed to accept it as good and nice nice.

  82. Innovation/Invention is always a success? by OldHawk777 · · Score: 1

    Intense and interesting spread "54% of CEOs Dissatisfied With
    Innovation" ... "97% of Innovators Dissatisfied with CEOs"
    and the problem is Businesses Management (BM) of The Almighty Science/Technology Budget.

    Invention is a tangible result, which was intuitively created by the actions of a genius.
    Innovation is the introduction of something new [make changes] into anything established.

    Leadership is about vision, prescience, experience, and the genius to create real measurable success.
    BM is about tangible, measurable, results by a very smart person, but probably not a genius.
    CEO/CFO/CIO/COO/CTO/BSO... are for the most part BM oriented and educated. Most (not all)
    CEO/CFO... are not creative innovative inventive geniuses. CEO/CFO... are down to earth
    practical dogmatist that mentally max-out on concepts/ideas at the "addition and subtraction"
    level of abstraction and thought. IMO: Business Management and CEO/CFO... are a perfect match.

    The Almighty Science/Technology Budget (again, IMO) should be managed by CEO/CFO....
    Regretfully, without leadership "The Almighty Science/Technology Budget" can be very
    foolishly and quickly squandered by a company, group, government .... Also,
    cultural/society risk-averse intransigence, which adversely impacts internal
    a/o external business processes is always a major co-variate cause for failure.
    Invention, innovation, and leadership cohesion and consensus are all required for success.
    Community/corporate culture and the BM CEO/CFO... cohesion and support are required.

    The top goal must always be real measurable success.
    In business/government... money lost and saved is the real measurement standard of success.
    In science, art, society/humanity, relationships ... the real measure of success is never monetary.

    Innovation/Invention and associated ideas/concepts are never the obstacle a/o failure cause.
    Failure is a human expectation, preparation, and implementation deficiency; So, the BM person
    (I think) is always the cause of failure. I have known and read about BM persons that have
    science, art, and engineer PhD degrees, but little or no practical experience in any science,
    technology, art ....

    Note: Practical experience is required for leadership and insight into reality. Ask USGrant, RELee,
    GCPatton ... about war, "Practical Experience" and education value related to real (non-monetary)
    measurable success.

    THAT WAS A TEST: If you thought war cost ... allot of money, then you are a BM person, not a leader or genius.

    Rather then going into more distracting detail ....

    Top-heavy screw-up a/o do nothing BM is a big unnecessary waste of money globally.
    CEO/CFO/CIO/COO/CTO/BSO...President/King/... excuse-management and spin-failure needs to end.

    If you want Innovation/Business success consider electing, hiring ... assigning a Venture Architect to every project/program/service... not a BM.

    Define, Venture Architect: A nexus professional with (1) extensive understanding of the projects "Venture Charter" funding and requirements (in science, research, development, technology, engineering, finance, services, and/or ...). (2) germane inclusive practical application experience. (3) strong venture/mission community collaboration skills. (4) the ability to [a] detect obscured implicit knowledge, [b] design atypical synergistic relationships/processes, and [c] define manageable mission complexity components and delegate to a specific venture collaborative community. (5) verifiabl, measurable, and vetted gainful consensus decision performance leading to mission success.

    Each business and program VA should have their own VA Resources Officers (while the "Venture Charter" exist): Business Manager (BRM), Financial Manager (FRM), Human Resources Managers (HRM).

    Pay and benefits based on

    --
    Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
  83. Re:Shit World 2007 by Rakishi · · Score: 1

    And I assume you do? I assume that every time you buy milk you do a detailed analysis of not just the company but the exact branch/location that supplied that milk. In turn you also go and visit them so as to interview the employees in person. Right?

  84. Re:Revisionist semantics is like revisionist histo by Rockin'+Az · · Score: 1

    It has been true probably longer than you think - but again only in the worlds of economic theory and political economy (which might not necessarily been what you were taught at school). The first person I am aware that studied the economic drivers of technological change was Joseph Schumpeter in the early 20th century. He argued that technological advancement was driven not so much by the generation of ideas - but the economic exploitation of them. "Innovation" was the successful economic exploitation of an idea - not the invention of an idea.

    There is a Wikipedia article on Schumpeter, but if you want to get a better a idea of his work and ideas try Schumpeter and technical change (by A. Heerje), Evolutionary economics: applications of Schumpeter's ideas (edited by H. Hanusch) or Schumpeter and the political economy of change (by D. L. McKee). Of course anything by Schumpeter is also worth reading (though very dry)

    A point to note - specific fields use everyday words in different contexts. A couple of weeks ago there were people on Slashdot arguing that people should accept that in the IT world kilo means 1024, not 1000. IT isn't alone in this. Economics and political economy make use of ordinary words in very specific contexts as well - innovation is one of them. This was an economics article and I think the use of the word innovation was correct.

    Anyway - it has been an interesting debate. I'm glad you raised your point - I've been meaning to discuss the meaning of "innovation" for a while, but rarely make the effort to post. Bringing the issue up so directly gave me the impetus to get off my arse and put in my 2 cents.

    Cheers

    Rockin' Az

    --

    I come from a LAN down under

    Where the packets flow and routers chunder

  85. Look at MERL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at MERL: a group of freakish smart and talented researchers creating some very innovative stuff. What does ME do? Change it from real research to "build stuff we can sell today from this list of parts". Don't get me wrong, applied research in critical but not at the cost of killing the place where those parts are invented. And don't expect top tier researchers to happily accept what many would see as a poor career move. MERL wasn't perfect but it was impressive.

    Moral of story: Once great doesn't mean always great. MERL loses and BAE, WPI, Harvard, Disney and JPL win. Some of the ex-Merl staff will go on to invent things that will directly decrease ME's profit and only ME is to blame. Again, MERL wasn't perfect but they had some sick talent that's now cast to the four winds.

    bfcc9da4f2e1d313c63cd0a4ee7604e9

    1. Re:Look at MERL by Lord+Grey · · Score: 1

      I had no clue what MERL was. It's Mitsubishi Electric Research Laboratories. Google turned up their web page easily enough. I recommend that anyone else not familiar with them peruse the 'Projects' section on the site. It seems rather impressive, at least with the few minutes I gave it just now.

      --
      // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
  86. fact? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The goal of innovation is to make or save money, and IT should never lose sight of that central fact."

    I tend to disagree, based on that other 'fact' that capitalism is a means by which society can grow, that is to say, money is the means and not the end. There's plenty of fantastic ideas in the OS community which help us as IT people and are subsequently exploited by business looking for free IP rides. Sounds like CEO's just want it all.

  87. Maybe if the Fu****g punks would stop.. by Paracelcus · · Score: 1

    Raiding pension funds, getting outrageous "bonuses", cutting worker salaries, firing Americans to hire foreigners, gutting healthcare, "letting people go" on the eve or retirement, "downsizing" and generally making America a really lousy place to be a worker!

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  88. Re:Shit World 2007 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are myriad things I wonder about. Farming is not on the list. Not only is it very much a solved problem, but it's such an awful industry to work in that people by the millions have taken the first opportunity to leave it behind in favor of factories (even sweatshops), and I just don't want to know any more depressing details than I already do.

  89. Somebody READ the ARTICLE??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heresy! Please turn yourself in to the hipster police.

  90. What innovation is by trondotcom · · Score: 0

    Problem with innovation is the same as for other any action taken, it must give a return to be worth the expense of resources.

  91. ideas are plentiful, however... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good ideas are lacking.

    The problem with most CEO's is that they think ideas are a commodity that they can just generate with more people. Google has it right though, good ideas come from a select group of people. If this CEO just lets groups come up with ideas through group think, then he this is probably why he isn't satisfied with innovation.

    If ideas and innovation were easy, it wouldn't have taken so long for us to fly, create electricity, lights, etc. But CEO's are actually very easy to come by...

  92. Freeloaders by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Invention without a financial return is just an expense.

    And invention without risk promieses no financial return.

    CEOs don't like risk. They do like guaranteed competitive profit for free.
    --

    --
    make install -not war

  93. Re:Shit World 2007 by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    If this is truly the case, come work for me for no paycheck.

    Hmmm. I've think I've contracted with you before, Mr. Itsinthemail.

  94. Re:Shit World 2007 by bit01 · · Score: 1

    The goal of running a business is to make money.

    No, the goal of a business is to have a fun, interesting and worthwhile life. Money is just an, albeit important, tool to that end.

    ---

    It's not piracy, it's sharing. Didn't your parents teach you to share?

  95. Most CEOs are clueless overpaid twats. by etnu · · Score: 1

    After the founders have died or left the company, the people who wind up running the show are usually worthless leaches who only get the position by looking good to shareholders and bending over for the banks that really run the company.

  96. Fine with us... by Rocky · · Score: 1

    ...just don't come whining back to us researchers when your product roadmap dries up because you consider "innovation" unnecessary overhead!

    --
    "I'm an old-fashioned type of guy. I worship the Sun and Moon as gods. And fear them."
  97. Re:Shit World 2007 by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

    Your witty riposte has run headlong into reality: IT interns (well, software dev) get paid.

    --
    "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  98. Re:Bullshit -- the rebuttal by GaryOlson · · Score: 1

    ...management insisted on leaving that system to go with a vendor's solution that used canned products...
    Unfortunately, I think your management has had experience with a few of my coworkers -- "solutions" are an excuse to spend money on shiny new hardware/software with a "plan" to implement just as soon as time permits. The "plan" is never fully specified, the techs don't understand the "solutions", the tech manager can't be distracted from exploring new purchases to solve technical issues, and eventually vendor technicians are paid paid by the hour to implement a half backed custom solution. From managements perspective, canned solutions don't have all these uncertainties.

    I am not saying you and your coworkers have these types of inadequacies -- but it appears your management has had these types of experiences.

    --
    Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
  99. CEO == no clue by timmarhy · · Score: 1
    I've known several CEO's of large companys, not fortune 500 but still multi billion dollar companys all the same. None of them have ever had a clue about how their own company works. But that in itself isn't a huge issue, CEO's aren't there to micro manage things, they are there to set a GENERAL direction, to meet with investors and make business and money decisions. things like R&D need to be approved on a much lower level, a CEO shouldn't even see the budget for R&D, it would just be a line item on a departments budget.

    What i find worrying about this, is that these CEO's seem to think it's part of their job to be in the loop on such small issues.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  100. But this "is what the customers want". by WheelDweller · · Score: 1

    When you risk everything to make a new application (for, what else?) Windows, you run the risk of it going up in smoke when Microsoft puts the bone to you. Thus, angel investors for such projects have been hard to find for a couple of decades.

    And if you're going to do it on any other platform, you have to MAKE the entire platform, a'la iPod, iPhone, etc. Not cheap.

    So thanks to the monopoly, we all sit and watch nothing new happen. Not my fault. I've not admin'ed a Windows box this century. I quit cold-turkey...you can too. :>

    --
    --- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
  101. We say we are innovated therefore we are! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I work for a post secondary institute. One of its sayings plastered all over is that "it is an innovative place" and even the mission statment says that they "promote innovation". On top of that they have a department of research and innovation with a VP of Innovation! Some high up moron decided that if we say we are innovated then we are innovated. You guessed it, any innovation is promptly squashed by the upper management who proudly promotes innovation.


    A while back, I read a quote (who I can't remember who to give credit to - Richard Stallman?) and it basically talked about the life cycle of a company. It starts off with a bunch of enthusiastic employees who have an idea. They are working because they believe in the idea and that they can succeed. When the company becomes successful, it reaches a point where the founders have to make a decision - do they continue with the development or manage the company. Most choose to hire SUITS to manage the company.


    Wuth the SUITs running the company, the focus shifts from building the best product using the best ideas to making the most return on the dollar to the investor. The people who thrived on the initial growth and excitement become stifled and leave. After a while, there's nothing left but SUITs in the company and it flounders on..

  102. Re:Shit World 2007 by ananamouse · · Score: 0

    > Or if not money, honor. For example, if I ...

    When asked in a interview why they still do it, Kieth Richards of the Rolling Stones said, "Don't ferget about the cute birds up front and all the free beer you can drink."

  103. Dinosaur Extermination Service by Crash+Culligan · · Score: 1

    Colin Smith: These places are the dinosaurs. They get eaten.

    If they get eaten, it's by bigger dinosaurs. Meanwhile, they're crushing the tiny little herbivores under their enormous stump-like feet by the dozens.

    Even if they're slow, the only things that can really take down the biggest dinosaurs are old age, starvation, and lightning.

    --
    You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
  104. Re:Shit World 2007 by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

    "Goals are over rated. Some of us still value the process and the effort."

    The problem is not with goals, it's with the market ** ducks **. The truth is if profit was not such a factor, many creative and great ideas would finally come to fruition, the problem is we don't have infinite resources. I'd like to be the first to say that: Our quest for profit distorts and also hinders our quest for progress in some areas as much as it helps in others.

  105. innovation has goals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The goal of innovation is to make or save money, and IT should never lose sight of that central fact."

    I would think that the goal of innovation is to innovate, reguardless wether it makes or saves money. Just look at the money dumped into cancer research. Are they saying that a cure would loose them money, therefore any innovation that takes away their research dollars would be an expense and therefore the cure should not come to market and it will be "locked up" off the market?
  106. Re:Shit World 2007 by smack.addict · · Score: 1

    When is ones time not their own? When someone else is paying you for that time. If your job is to stuff N widgets into boxes per hour, and it takes you 45 minutes, what business is it of anyone to tell you to stop using that 15 minutes figuring out to get it to 30? It depends, but more than likely, it is your employer's business and they would prefer for the hour they paid you for that they get N+whatever you can get in during a 1 hour time span.

  107. Re:Shit World 2007 by joeh3rd · · Score: 1

    I also agree that goals rarely compare with an enjoyable process. To die with the most toys you must be careful not to break them (or spend them in this case) thus removing any joy in using them (spending it). In order to attain more you must give away something. I would rather go through life enjoying it by doing interesting and spiritually rewarding things. I believe that if we think on this a bit we will realize that that is why we toil. We want to create a society where we can pursue or spiritual needs and reduce the amount of our lives that we must devote to simply surviving. "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" (Mt. 16:26) Yeah, that sounds about right.

    --
    Be as you would have the world become.
  108. 100% of innovators sick of CxO and sales salaries by NateTech · · Score: 1

    Innovate, bring in or save the company millions... have the same paycheck. Watch the CEO cash out millions in stock options.

    You'd think they'd figure out that the problem isn't the lack of innovation, it's the lack of incentives to innovation.

    Mostly, if you innovate and make/save the company money -- your only real reason these days is to help the company make enough money to repair the bleeding that is happening elsewhere throughout the organization due to weak management. Not mis-management, just weak.

    On top of that, the sales staff selling your innovative product or service will typically make somewhere around 3X your salary.

    This swing to giving the benefits/incentives derived from a new "innovative" product or service started in the late 60's in the U.S. (The best Engineers were "heros" and lionized in biographical data and touted as "important" to the company in public documentation back then...)

    Today, the incentives to innovate only lie in leaving the company and selling your wares yourself, which seems like "The American Way". But it wasn't, many years ago.

    Three to four decades ago, an engineer would pitch an "innovative" idea to the boss, with no expectation that they could keep the technological idea to themselves -- and the boss would actually UNDERSTAND it (that's important too, and more rare these days than it should be). If it were sound business to do so, the company would form a strategy and give the engineer an appropriate budget and tight timeline to get it built so they could take it to market.

    And here's where the big differences start: If the project/product were successful, the Engineer who created it could reasonably expect a significant bonus, a very large one, and in many cases it would push them toward an almost "tenured" position within the company, and they'd be asked to do it again.

    Today, the engineer gets his/her small piece of the bonus "plan" money, no matter who made the product/service that made or saved the corporation money, and watches the salespeople sell it a huge profit, much of which goes in the sales staff's pocket.

    As an anecdotal way to "prove" this, look at the play "Death of a Salesman". Seen any sales people in that dire of straights today? Or are the ones you work with driving Cadillacs, Hummers, and living in houses about three times the price of your own?

    One step further... how many millions has your CxO team made this year alone? If you're working for a public company, the SEC filings tell the tale. One million? Five? Ten? What will you make if you create the absolute best, most INNOVATIVE product ever made in your industry and do it through your company? Will you get a nice plaque and an atta-boy? Will you get a free dinner out on the town? Will you even see $1000 for your efforts?

    Time to fix the INCENTIVES. People don't work for nothing, but most companies today have major problems with their incentives, if they want INNOVATION. CxO's, quit bitching... quit pulling millions of dollars of value out of the organization every year (learn to spend some money on pure R&D, and less on your lifestyle), and pull back some of the sales commission for paying the INNOVATOR directly.

    --
    +++OK ATH