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Retailer Refuses Hardware Repair Due To Linux
Tikka writes "Today I visited PC World (London, UK) because my 5-month-old laptop has developed a manufacturing fault: the hinge to the display has started to crack the plastic casing. Anyone in the know will know that this is due to the joint inside, and it means that in time the screen will separate from the keyboard. Repair was refused, because I have Gentoo Linux on my laptop, replacing the Windows Vista that was pre-installed. PC World said that installing Linux had voided my warranty and there is nothing they will do for me. I spoke to a manager, who said that he has been told to refuse any repairs if the operating system has been changed. I feel this has really gone against my statutory rights and I will do everything I can to fight it. I will review comments for your advice."
I can understand the company having policies, but this is a case where a manager clearly should have used his authority for a one-time override. Next time I guess you'll be taking your business elsewhere, I bet? So, they are the ones who goofed up.
They're not saying it caused it, they're just looking for an excuse not to pay to repair it. I make it clear to my retailers when I send my stuff in for repair, I'm not sending the hard drive in with it. Whenever I send it with the hard drive in, something bad happens like they wipe the thing.
Demented But Determined.
re-install windows and go back to them (or another outlet). It's as easy as this.
It was pre-installed, so maybe he can't. Most vendors seem to provide a ghost image of the factory HD, or the install CD itself, but maybe his didn't.
In that case, he might not own Vista at all.
Your first stop should be the local trading standards office.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act is a US federal consumer protection law setting requirements for consumer product warranties. One key provision of the act is that a warranty cannot be voided by the use of "unapproved" or "aftermarket" parts, or by modification, unless it can be proven that the damage or failure was caused by that action. The legal burden of proof is on the manufacturer to demonstrate that the customer's actions caused the problem. The intent of this law was to prevent manufacturers from locking customers into using only their own consumables and replacement parts -- a practice that was popular at the time, with products ranging from vacuum cleaners (generic-brand bags void warranty) to cars (OEM replacements parts only, or the whole warranty is void). Many companies will still try to dishonor a warranty if a product has been modified, but this is clearly illegal and case law has upheld the consumer's right to modify products and use "unapproved" accessories and replacements time after time. Long story short -- in the US, you shove the laptop where the sun don't shine and threaten to sue (the American Way). In the UK? I don't know.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
One could have just as easily turned the auto sleep off under windows and gotten the same result. I've set a few friend's Windows laptops that way because they hated it sleeping every time they were downloading something and closed the lid!
A laptop should still cool properly with the lid closed.
Well, he could just wipe the disk and claim he didn't know what happened... ...actually, he could say that with Linux too - "I just put this cd in and click 'ok' a few times", then everything seemed to be ok, so I left it alone...now this hinge problem. You mean this *isn't* MS Windows? <shock>".
[OK, how do I get my "<shock>" to appear *and* the line breaks too (but without <br/> appearing too)? Am I really supposed to replace my '<' with '& lt;' etc? Why isn't "Plain Old Text" what it says?]
Max.
While working tech support for an elementary school, I encountered a G3 iMac that wouldn't boot properly and "sad mac-d". I was able to get the error codes and it showed bad motherboard. I called up Apple tech support, explained the situation and gave the phone tech the codes I'd received and mentioned the symptoms I'd noticed. I was then asked what software we were running. The school happened to have an older version of Microsoft works or some such (this was over 8 years ago, forgive me if I'm foggy on the details) and, humoring the phone support tech, I mentioned the software. I was promptly informed that Microsoft Works was clearly causing the computer not to boot, Apple didn't support it, and not to call again with this problem. Figuring I wouldn't get anywhere with this guy, I hung up, called again, explained the problem to the new tech and Apple had a man on site in 48 hours to replace the motherboard. Unsurprisingly, the computer with the new motherboard worked fine with the old version of works - just like the 100+ other iMacs on the campus.
I assume the tech was simply lazy and was looking for a way out. Had to be pretty lazy to not want to fill out a simple form. He also could've been extremely stupid. But in any case, it's not unheard of, even from a company supposedly known for customer service like Apple.
When I was fixing laptops - Compaq in this case - we had many laptops come in with no HDD (security reasons) In any case we would test them with our own drives with test S/W on them.
Semper ubi sub ubi
I reckon you have an open and shut case [if you will excuse the pun]. Write a letter to PC World [make it registered delivery so you know it was received] pointing out that the laptop has a MECHANICAL defect and you require it to be fixed. Be sure to include when and where you bought it, COPY of receipt, the managers response and a picture if you can of the damage. The fact that you have changed the operating system is of no consequence as its a mechanical hinge. Make it polite but also point out that PC World has a reponsibility under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and they are in breach of that. If PC World say take it up with the manufacturer, ignore that, your sale contract is with PC World.
If PC World still refuse [and they probably will] then take them to the small claims court. As long as you have documentation, letters, dates and can prove that you have given them ample opportunity to resolve the matter there is a good chance the Judge will rule in your favour. Collecting your money after that can be a bit of a pain, but you will get it - they are not a 2bit operation after all.
See this link to the DTI, especially Q3 and Q10. Be polite but stick to your guns.
Unfortunately, DSG (the group that runs PC World) are the worst retailers here in the UK. Part of the reason is probably that their staff are too stupid to realise the OS makes no difference... they get their PC training off the back of a Cornflakes box.
They dont care about bad publicity that much because they drawf other retailers for electronics/PCs over here. Most people in the UK dont even realise that PC World, Dixons, Currys, Comet (and a few of the big mobile phone chains too) are all the same company.
You can try mentioning the Sales of Goods Act but I doubt it will help much. Their staff mostly works on comissions and are largely just walking salesmen that know nothing about what they sell unless its on the price/info little card next to the PC.
They threw me out of the local store once when I told someone about to buy some ram that they were charging 150% more than the PC shop 400 yards away.
I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
They probably don't have a leg to stand on anyway. Unfair terms in a warranty are void under English law, and it's hard to see how a term in a warranty pertaining to software could have any fair bearing on design flaws.
To the OP: a good first stop is www.consumerdirect.gov.uk, a site run by the Office of Fair Trading that offers advice to "consumers". Their advice is extremely vague, but you can contact them with the details of your situation. But an encouraging word from this page:
Exclusion clauses
Some traders might try to escape their responsibilities under contracts by using exclusion clauses, for instance by saying that they accept no liability for loss or damage. If an exclusion clause is unfair it is legally void and cannot be used against you.
Generally, only a court can decide if a contract term is unfair. But any exclusion of liability, whether in a contract term or on a notice, is always void if it is used for the purpose of evading liability for death or personal injury caused by negligence. Also, a trader selling goods cannot exclude liability for a breach of your statutory rights - for instance by displaying a sign saying: 'no refunds given.' An attempt to do this is an offence.
Similar statements about services - for example: 'no responsibility for loss or damage to garments, however caused' on the back of a dry cleaning ticket - are not illegal. But such terms are not enforceable if a court finds them unfair.
There's another line saying they have "more information about Unfair terms in contracts", but the link doesn't work. Like I said, it's vague. I could wish for your sake that UK law had something half as useful as exists in my country. Cold comfort, I fear.
In the UK, new goods sold from a shop to a private customer must be fit for purpose. This is a statutory obligation, and the related consumer rights cannot be waived regardless of anything the shop says. Those rights derive primarily from the Sale of Goods Act. The law provides for various replace/refund possibilities, depending on what is reasonable given the nature of the problem and how long it has been since the item was bought.
Protection can last for several years if this is the normal expected lifespan of the item purchased, but the law isn't stupid: you probably aren't entitled to a full refund if your device that should last at least six years fails after only five, for example, though you might find you're entitled to a contribution towards repair or replacement.
For recently purchased items, shops might like to offer you gift vouchers or something rather than a refund, but they'll be out of luck if they try to make it stick and you fight them. Most managers know this, and will back down when confronted. They know they will likely lose a case in the small claims court, and incur costs (we have a loser pays legal system) and damage to their store's reputation as well as having to pay up in the end anyway.
There are additional legal remedies connected with various specific circumstances, such as the Distance Selling Regulations, but these don't seem to apply in this case.
If I were the guy who'd been screwed here, I would first return to the shop, ask politely to speak to the manager, inform him that I didn't find his staff's behaviour reasonable, and ask for what I believed that I was reasonably entitled to under the consumer protection legislation. If that didn't work, I'd consult my local Trading Standards folks, who are generally knowledgeable, helpful, quick to answer questions and on the consumer's side. Then I'd probably do whatever they suggested was best in the circumstances, which might mean anything from sending a registered letter of complaint to the business's head office to filing against them in the small claims court (which can actually be done on-line quite efficiently these days).
Insert standard disclaimers here: I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, and if you follow any advice you find on Slashdot without checking it for yourself then you deserve whatever comes of it. If you want real legal advice, speak to a lawyer, or at least your local Trading Standards, Citizens Advice Bureau or similar reputable organisation.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Altering a consumer item does not void the warranty unless it can be shown that the alteration caused the failure. It is the responsbility of the warranty issuer to prove it if indeed it is the consumer's fault. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act
Don't listen to the constant FUD that modding anything you buy voids the warranty. It doesn't. Manufacturers can say that it does, but it's a lie.
"Ask Slashdot" (the correct section) article asking for legal advice? Check.
Stop asking Slashdot and start talking to lawyers when you have this kind of problem and think that your "statutory rights" have been violated. Slashdot is almost guaranteed to be the worst place to get advice on anything other than technology and technology careers. Up next: "Ask Slashdot: My left labium is swollen, do I have the clap?"
Compiz says hi.
It's pretty, but it makes my laptop a campfire atop my nuts.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
In the whole of the EU, including the UK, consumer electronics come with a mandatory 1 year guarantee. This is a statutory right, which means that you can't sign it away. It doesn't matter what the contract says. It doesn't matter what the fine print says. It doesn't matter what big bold print print says — you have this right. The only thing a company can do is extend it to more than one year. They cannot reduce it.
The only thing I'm unsure about is whether or not computer laptops are covered as "consumer electronics".
Comet is not, and never has been, part of DSG - they are, in fact, probably the biggest single dedicated electrical-store competitor to DSG in the UK...
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
For all the kdawson haters out there (don't worry...I am a self admitted KDH too).
Go do the following:
Preferences -> Homepage -> Customize Stories on the Homepage -> Authors
uncheck kdawson (AKA [shatner voice]kkkkkkkkkkkkkkdawson[/shatner voice])
Only then, will your homepage stop looking like Digg.
Good Luck! You are only a few clicks away from sanity.
I want my! I want my! I want my Eee PC!
Report the facts of the matter to his office. Printed letter form is usually best. Attach your contact info. Notify the shop that you've registered a complaint with the ombudsman's office and/or local trading standards whatchamacallit.
Sometimes the fear of getting a bad rep will set them straight. Other times, they'll decide to tough it out. In any case you're likely to end up having to pay for repairs yourself, even if you're right.
It's not unheard of. One of the more well known examples is the Apple iBook (atleast some of them), which are known for cooking themselves to death if you let them run with the lid closed. I would agree that such a laptop is poorly designed though.
Hi, just so you know, your problems with getting your laptop repaired are probably worse than you envisioned.
Please, DONT take any of this personally against YOU... it isnt. It's just what you will experience and why...
Here's why your problems may be worse:
The manufacturer's warranties do not cover broken plastics or hinges. If *you* think it is a manufacturing defect, that is usually quite irrelevant to the manufacturer (who is the one who needs to approve the in-warranty repair - and will NOT send the hinges or plastics to the repair center). (See note at bottom)
Now, I am NOT disputing that this may be a manufacturing defect - I'm advising you (from years worth of experience) what additional problems you will run into.
IF your machine is NOT an HP or Compaq, you can remove the drive and bring it someplace else for repair - explaining to them that you dont want to risk your data being lost/drive being formatted (which the vendors often do), and NOT mention Linux at all.
IF your machine IS an HP or Compaq, then you can TRY that method, BUT, HP/Compaq require service centers do a FULL diagnostic of the machine for ANY warranty work - which presents a problem if the drive is not installed. Sometimes, you will find a sympathetic service center manager who will take the machine in anyway and fudge the diag results, and send the machine to HP/Compaq with a note saying that the service center has the drive and all diags passed.
I truly think your battle will be related to the fact that plastics and hinges are not covered under warranty though. The way to TRY to combat that issue is to have documented proof that others with the SAME model are also experiencing such problems (hinge issues rarely occur to just one machine... the batch off that same assembly line will show such problems). If you can find sufficient proof that others with the same model have the same problem, then the service center manager can fight the manufacturer to try to get the plastics and hinges (which are quite expensive).
When you bring the machine back in, please keep in mind that the decision to repair the hinges and plastics is NOT up to the Service Center Manager - he does not approve the parts shipment - or the shipment of your machine to the manufacturer - the MANUFACTURER does... so be patient, and don't go off on him because the manufacturer says no - and give him as much info as you can find to help him fight their decision - BECAUSE, their decision is NO (and told to the service center managers long before you ever brought your machine in), and that NO stands except in two cases... (1) a service center manager that you have not pissed off to the point he wont fight it and/or have helped give enough proof it IS a defect, and (2) a class action lawsuit (or threat thereof) that forces a manufacturer to take the blame for it.
Keep in mind, until #2 occurs, you and the manufacturer are bound by that warranty - which states no plastics, no hinges covered - UNLESS the manufacturer is convinced it is a defect - which they won't be just because you think it is (no matter how right you are).
Robert
Former Tech Manager
CompUSA
StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
I agree. I don't know about newer computers, but my server is a P-233 with 224MB of RAM IBM Thinkpad, which I keep on 24/7, with the lid closed, on the bottom shelf of my printer stand, with the router on top of it. It's just there as a personal dev server more than anything, but it's been running that way for almost a year now (ever since I absolutely couldn't do anything else on it as a mobile computer). I've never had any heating or cracking problems with it.
Tha Sale of Goods Act is the answer to the story submitters problems. Even if the guarantee (which is a contract) does specify limitations that the submitter has transgressed the submitter still has their statutory rights.
It's reasonably self evident that if a hinge has cracked within 5 months then it wasn't as durable as one would reasonably expect and is therefore defective.
At the end of the day if the store doesn't come to the party it should be a rather easy victory in a small claims court.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
But don't blame the retailer (in spite of the suckage) because the manufacturer is the one that screwed you. The retailer just was unfortunate enough to be the messenger.
He should have an OEM CD, though, and can just wipe and re-install. I've had to do this when my current laptop had (hardware-related) problems, and it's pretty standard practice in the linux-laptop world. It sucks, but there's nothing you can do.
However, for anyone about to do this, do consider using something like Mondo to backup your PC (and don't forget to verify the backups!!) That way, restoring your system *after* repair is as easy as shoving the disc in and playing tetris for a few hours
And everyone, please note, this is PC World, the store in the UK, not the magazine.
Email address: customer.services@pcworld.co.uk
Don't blame me -- I voted for Roslin.
When you speak to the PC World Manager, kindly remind him that you do have recourse to the Small Claims court and also Trading Standards.
As a final jab at him mention the press (both conventional & on-line)
Threaten to stand outside his shop with a banner proclaiming that they don't comply with the Sale of Goods act and Consumer Law on a Saturday (their busiest time).
Then see what he says to that.
Remember to document each and every contact you have had with the company. Especially get the names of the people you are dealing with. It has been known to Sales/Support staff to give incorrect names so if you have a friend who can discretely use their camera phone then...
However, in most PC World Stores the branch manager and his direct reports usually have their mug shots on display near the exit.
On a personal note, your experience is one of the reasons why I have pledged never to set foot in any of their stores ever again (Just like a certain Fast food company that starts with an 'M'). I had similar problems with a PC about 5 years ago. The components were not designed properly. I showed the store manager that even their demo model was showing signs of stress at this point in the case. (I'm a Chartered Mechanical Engineer btw). Eventually I got a full refund but it took 4 months of effort.
Good Luck.
This has nothing to do with what OS is installed on the system, or they can prove that installing the OS damaged the screen joint.
Thinkpads are tanks. We used them for our field machines, to program PLC's at sewage treatment plants. The old ones are just indestructible. You can drop em, expose them to H2S gas, let them collect data in wet nasty environments for days, sit on them, they just don't break.
...... like I said the old ones are " Built like a Mack truck "
I have no idea if the new Lenovo ones are as rugged, but
Cheers
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Dear PC World,
Being a perceived computer 'expert', I have often sent people to PC World to buy a PC the easy way. Stories like this one on Slashdot (where PC World is refusing to repair a hardware problem on a laptop because a different OS has been installed) may cause me to revise my opinion and send people elsewhere. I will await the outcome of this story with interest.
Story link: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/09/12/0011209.shtml
I've read a few warranties, and I have yet to find one that really says this. Their one year standard warranty covers hardware and the only exclusion I see that could apply is damage caused by non-HP software, but since this was a part that isn't affected by software at all, that still doesn't apply. The software warranty can be voided by "improper installation", but that line doesn't apply to hardware.
So I would present my warranty agreement, and ask to see exactly where it says that I'm not covered. Sometimes a support policy is based on a misinterpretation of when an exclusion applies, or once a policy is in place it can start to be applied inappropriately as an excuse for not fixing things.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
Gah, nearly forgot. Document EVERYTHING. Copies of every letter, keep a log of conversations and phonecalls with times and dates and a quick summary of the conversation and any promised response. Make sure you never give away the original receipts. If you bought it on credit, contact your credit provider as they bear liability for the goods also. Visa breathing down a retailers neck often gets a speedy response.
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
In the UK (where the PC World in question is located), the vendor cannot avoid liability by limiting its warranty.
Section 14(2) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 imposes a statutory implied warranty that goods sold in the course of a business are of 'satisfactory quality'. This expressly includes issues of durability. Section 6 of the Unfair Contract Terms Act states that when dealing with a consumer, liability arising from a breach of the s. 14 implied warranty cannot be excluded or restricted by reference to any contract term.
"The sum of all knowledge does not imply the knowledge of all sums" Kurt Gödel (paraphrased)
Read the Trading standards advice for consumers. This advice is your statutory rights: conditions on the warranties do not apply. However, advice on general use may be taken into account. Read the advice for how that works.
Complain in writing, keeping copies of all correspondence. And complain quickly: for the first six months, the retailer has to prove it wasn't their fault.
Citizens' Advice Bureaux may also help.
First of all you have loads of rights under the Sale of Goods Act in the UK. As this is slashdot ignore the Americans who cite CompuUSA and the American laws as they actually don't apply here.
I've taken people to court in the UK a couple of time (IANAL) and won each time. This was always a small claims court (Kennington, London) rather than the big expensive one.
It's not difficult but you need to do things correctly.
1) Go back to PC World and state your claim again to them verbally. Ask to speak to the manager and state why you think you have a claim against them. Ignore the rubbish that they have nothing to do with the sale, they are the company who sold you the computer, they are the people you have a contract with.
2) Make readable notes, ask for names of appropriate staff. Be polite.
3) Tell them that you are not happy with this and will be taking further action. You can prepare in advance a latter stating that you think the goods are not of merchantible quality as defined by the Sales of Goods Act and you wish to receive a refund. You have the option of either a refund or a repair. If you accept a repair you cannot get your money back at a later stage, so go for the full refund. In the letter allow them a reasonable time to provide a refund, 14 days is acceptable, 24 hours is not. State that unless you get a full refund you will take them to court under the Sales of Good Act.
4) Go home, write your notes up, make it clear and concise.
5) Either PC World pay up, job done or they don't answer or they refuse. If they don't answer, send them a reminder and copy this to the chief executive of PC World, who appears to be John Clare. Don't get stroppy, don't get cocky. Explain the situation in simple to understand terms. This is later evidence you will give to the magistrate. He or she may not be IT literate so don't get too technical. They appreciate concise information.
6) PC World turn you down again. So you have to hit the small claims court. Go to your local court and ask for a small claims form. I forget the details but Google-is-your-friend. Fill out the information on the form. This is where you state your case and attach copies of your evidence, so all the careful notes you've made and the copies of letters you've sent help. You did send them registered through Royal Mail so you have proof of receipt didn't you? It costs about £35-40. I've not done this for a couple of years so am not up to date.
7) Wait.
8) Either PC World pay up, offer you something or they go to court. They cannot ignore this letter, it is now a matter of law and for them to do so means you win.
9) if they go to court, this is your big day. You do not need a laywer or barrister to represent yourself. The magistrate is the only person you need to convince and in my experience they were very friendly and helpful. They do not look down on you defending yourself. Explain your case to them, do not use technical terms, explain that the case has broken due to a design default and let the other side explain why loading Linux causes a hinge to break. keep it simple and clear. Dress smartly, but be confident of your case. Don't make jokes, make copious notes (or pretend to to keep yourself busy).
10) The magistrate will make a judgement there and then. If he/she says yes you're home and dry, if not then lifes a bitch and then you die. I've done three and won three.
11) if you win, PC World will pay up. If they don't you get the fantastic (and I mean that) of sending the bailiffs in. This means that you could probably get them to march into a store, section part of it off and say that this stock is now being held due to default of payment. This happened a few months ago in Tescos wher the bailiffs sectioned off the drink section and claimed it in default of a payment. £60,000 of booze held for a couple of thousand pounds fine. Tesco's paid on the spot. I know a few bailiffs and they are all nutters and hard cases and love this sort of grand standing.
Assuming that the cracking was due to durability issues rather than dropping the laptop, PC World do not have a leg to stand on.
In the UK (where the PC World in question is located), your statutory consumer rights will trump any nonsense that PC World may include in their 'warranty policy'.
It's really simple:
Section 14(2) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 imposes a statutory implied warranty that goods sold in the course of a business are of 'satisfactory quality'. This expressly includes issues of durability.
Section 6 of the Unfair Contract Terms Act states that when dealing with a consumer, liability arising from a breach of the s. 14 implied warranty cannot be excluded or restricted by reference to any contract term.
I'd suggest you put that in writing and ask the PC World manager to confirm within 7 days that it will comply with its statutory obligations and repair or replace the laptop noting that you will: (a) instruct your solicitor; and (b) take the matter up with the local Trading Standards office if the company does not respond.
Yes IAAL and yes I dislike PC World intensely for precisely this kind of crap. Give them hell from me.
"The sum of all knowledge does not imply the knowledge of all sums" Kurt Gödel (paraphrased)
I agree with the above poster. There's two things I'd add.
Firstly, right now, the important thing is to keep a record of absolutely everything - dates/times of conversations, what was said, who you talked to etc. You'll need it.
Secondly, after you've exhausted the other options (writing to PC World, trading standards) then don't be afraid of using the small claims court. It's very easy: no lawyer is required, the fee is only £50 (which PC World will pay if you win) and the paperwork is minimal. I'd guess that in 99% of cases the company will pay up before it actually gets as far as court. In my case my old landlady returned our deposit (plus the £50) the day after I'd filed in court!
(For those who don't know, Currys and PC World are branches of the same company) I'd support that: I buy a lot of stuff at PC World precisely because they've been utterly reliable on returns - they may be a bit more expensive than the web for some stuff, but it's been worth it.
I will add to that - if you cannot get the statement from them in writing - record it. Tell them why you are recording and tell them that if they refuse it to be recorded you would put the refusal on record as well. It is usually enough to put a recorder on the table to bring some sanity in the game.
The only store where this does not work in the UK is Tesco. The rumour is that their managers are trained to push the case all the way to trading standards in the hope that the consumer drops it on the way.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Although I wouldn't want to, I am unable to as I removed the recovery partition.
>> I'm not from the UK but don't you have a consumer rights protection authority there? If you do I'd say you pay them a visit and tell them about PC World. And why not shout this as loud as you can over the web. This might hurt. As far as I know their the biggest IT retailer in the UK. Maybe they don't want their reputation flawed.
A good start is www.citizensadvice.org.uk . They'll probably help him first writing a letter that PCWorld _will_ react to; if that doesn't help, then the small claims court will. At least if the story happened as it was told; if you install Linux, drop your laptop, and then the screen is broken, the manufacturer may very well be in the clear.
In the UK you can take people to the small claims court without the need for a lawyer, it will cost you a small percentage of the claim whether you win or lose. I think the limit is about £2500 ($5000) for the claim so a laptop should be covered. Still a pain though.
How long does this implied warranty last, and do you have some links to some docs.
My sister got a laptop from PC World and the fan stopped working so the laptop started overheating, this had happened within a few months of buying the laptop.
I asked the store for a replacement not a fix as the overheating may have damaged other components and the laptop was obviously unfit when it was sold and the guy in the store told me that could only do a repair.
In the end, after a phone call from PC World (which I wasn't there for) they ended up telling my sister to disable the overheating protection, the next time I spoke to her I told her to immediately turn it all back on. Fortunately the fan started working again, but for how long is anyone's guess.
The moral of the story is, don't buy anything from PC World if you expect anything from the warranty.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Take the hard drive out all together and claim that you removed it because you are afraid that your data will be lost when they service the machine. Bring the laptop to another store and seek the repair.
If there is no other store; still remove the hard drive and have someone else bring it in for repair.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
In the name of sticking up for someone with autism, f**k you! Prejudiced bastard.... that is unlawful and linuc for dumm
PC World don't give a crap about publicity - they pull this all the time.. if you've ever watched consumer shows you'll see problems with their stuff showing up all the time (their favourite one is water damage is excluded.. so if you go in with *any* fault what do they find?? water damage!!).
They also know that 99% of customers do not know their rights under the sale of goods act and of the 1% that do half of those won't push it if they stonewall enough.
Favourite common - completely bogus - getout lines are:
"You have to contact the manufacturer" (It's up to the retailer to fix it)
"We don't accept returns on this item" (They must. It's the law)
"We only give a 14 day warranty" (You get 6 months for replacement/refund and retailer is liable for repairs for 6 years.
"Replacement only on production of a valid receipt" (It's illegal to demand this.)
"No refunds" (They *must* give refunds where applicable. Not credit notes or anything else).
Read http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html and memorise the major points.
Trading standards will usually kick them hard enough (they have the power to shut down the store, and do so in some cases) - but if they don't help then small claims are good for up to £5000. The store will lose (they always lose provided you're being reasonable) and will end up paying all the costs.
From www.adviceguide.org.uk the citizensadvice advice website; "Getting your goods repaired or replaced If there is something wrong with your goods and you aren't entitled to, or don't want to get a full refund, you can ask the trader to either repair or replace them for free instead. You might not be able to get a full refund if, perhaps, you had the goods for too long before realising there was a problem, or before the problem became obvious. If you take the goods back within six months of buying them, the trader must accept that they were faulty at the time of sale and offer to repair or replace them. If the trader doesn't accept that the goods were faulty, they will have to prove this." Source: www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_goods_your_rights.htm
If you change the exhaust on a car and the suspension goes out ... it's still covered. If you change the exhaust and the catalytic converter goes out ... they'll probably argue a bit. If you change the engine management computer's tune and it cracks a piston ... you're screwed.
Step 1: Call the manufacturer and explain the issue. Omit the fact that you have Linux on the system. It's irrelevant to the fact that you have a physical component defect that needs to be repaired. Should they ask about the OS, LIE! Step 2: Create an image of your system, using Ghost or some other clone utility. All workorders, even when no work is being done on the HDD have a limitation of liability clause concerning lost data. All it takes is for a tech who has pulled the system apart to replace the part to accidentally put the hard drive on a disk eraser or large magnet. Step 3: Reload the original OS using the restore CD, or do a quick and dirty install of Vista. It'll only be on there long enough for you to receive your laptop back. Step 4: Bring it in for repair. Step 5: Call the manufacturer and ask them about how the warranty is affected by the install or update of an OS other than what was on the system. I'll bet they have no problem with it. Then explain to them the experience you had with their warranty service location. Step 6: Pick up your laptop and let the service provider know that you've filed a complaint with the manufacturer. Step 7: Re-load your backed up image to the system and enjoy! I've done this a few times. It seems to be a problem when the service facility has no knowledge of or confidence in touching a Linux installed system. Never has it had anything to do with "policy" or "warranty".
I am a consultant who uses Linux for my business. More specifically, I am a programmer who specializes in Linux migration of Legacy apps. My whole business is built on Linux, therefore I need to be able to run Linux on my laptop. I have been through 3 laptops in the last 3 months. The first one was a high end boutique computer manufacturer. The laptop worked great initially and I have to say that their tech support and sales people were great. They knew I was running Linux and agreed to cover any hardware as long as it was only a hardware issue. After a series of hardware failures stemming from a repair of a faulty LCD, the company and I Agreed to part ways. I then went to HP. I spoke to no less than 3 sales persons and 1 sales manager before I ordered my laptop and expressed my unhappiness with having Vista forced on me. They too knew my intention was to run Linux. It was not untill after the credit card transaction had gone through that the first HP rep informed me that changing the OS would result in a voided Warantee. I told him "I am a *Linux* programmer" and he informed me that even downgrading to XP would void the warrantee. I promptly canceled my transaction and went to my local Apple store and bought a Macbook Pro. Mac provides a tool called boot camp that allowed me to resize the mac partition leaving me with empty space for Gentoo. I had Linux installed before the notebook would have even been shipped from any other vendor. I must say so far I am very pleased with Linux on the mac.
Note: If you are worried about not having a right click button in Linux, the synaptics driver supports the 2finger touch as a right click.
The new Thinkpads from Lenovo are nothing like the old Thinkpads. True enough, up to the T42/T43 series they were great, but those series were still designed and made under IBM management. We've started to get in the new T60/T60P's here and I can tell you straight up they're flaky, cheaply built, and very disposed to failure. For instance, they've changed the HD mount to being simply two rubber boots stretched over the edges of the drive, which will do next to nothing to protect against shock or jarring.
Makes baby Jebus sad.
(Disclaimer: I work for said Big Blue)
(Further Disclaimer: I'm a complete ass and everything I say is my own damn opinion)
"Christ what a design! I could eat a handful of iron filings and PUKE a better emergency pump than that!"
1. Backup your current Linux OS
2. Re-install Windows Vista
3. Return to PC World with your computer
4. Pick up fixed computer
5. Remove Windows Vista and re-install Linux
6. Surf for porn
Don't shop any place where they actively look for reasons to refuse service.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Its not 6 years for repairs. They typically give 1 year warranty, though I believe the European Commission (which has a higher legal status than our own country) sets the warranty period for electronic goods at 2 years.
There are plenty of other get out clauses. "Mis-use" is a great one - because if you were using right, it wouldn't have been broken, right ?
Bluntly, they are talking rubbish.
_NO_ computer sold by PC World has a warranty that covers software. Sony don't, Toshiba don't, no manufacturer they stock does. Even with their additional fantabulous warranty that you pay on top for, this only entitles you to telephone support for software issues. They will not take in a machine to fix a software fault nor will they send an engineer to your home to fix a software fault.
To suggest, therefore, that you have voided your warranty by changing the software on the machine is wrong. Explain it to them this way, and you'll get a repair without having to quote any trading standards laws.
If all else fails, call the retail number (0844 561 0000 - not the tech support number) and dial through to complaints. Can't remember the options, perhaps 4 then 5. This will get you through to the customer service team who are generally very pleasant people considering they just get angry customers shouting at them all day. They should be able to sort you out. If they can't, ask it to be escalated. It can be escalated all the way up to the head of customer service. He's a very nice chap who always gets things sorted if the company has genuinely screwed up. Which they have in this case.
Best of luck!
An ex-PC World tech.
I don't normally leave comments on slashdot(as evidenced by my lack of an account) but I decided to this time because I've come across this before working for PC World/DSG.
The store is absolutely wrong. Your warranty is for hardware only and has absolutely nothing to do with software(Something most customers don't understand which is why the PC Clinic at PC World may be quick to get rid of customers). If you tried to make this claim under PC World's extended warranty, Coverplan/PC Performance, then they may try to refuse as it would appear to be cosmetic damage which is not covered(You'd have to convince them that it will lead damage that will interfere with operation). However, under manufacturer's warranty it is unquestionably covered as it is breakdown. The problem you are coming up against is the ignorance of the manager and the PC World technician. Regardless of what the signs say, the techs at PC World don't have any real training(Not even A+) and most are fairly incompetent, knowing nothing of a world outside Windows. Managers at PC World generally have no computer knowledge(The same can be said for head office) and will usually act on the advice of the store's technician. The manager probably does not understand the difference between software and hardware.
If this is a HP laptop it may be someone at the HP call centre making this claim(They have to send laptops to the manufacturers for repairs). This would be because the person doesn't know what Linux is AND doesn't understand the warranty(It's not uncommon for the employee to misunderstand the warranty).
PC World is usually aggressive towards doing repairs/refunds on computers for customers unless they're convinced right away that the fault has nothing to do with the customer. This is because they are flooded with customers trying to request refunds without a valid reason or customers who demand that someone fix the software issue they caused right now.
Go back to the store and explain to them that the warranty is intended to cover hardware breakdown and has absolutely nothing to do with software. Trying to make such an exclusion or limitation of liability is illegal in the first place. If the manager still won't pursue the issue then request the branch manager. DO NOT take no for an answer. If that fails then ring DSG Customer Services:
PC World - 0844 561 0000
You can also try ringing someone in head office. The store should have a list of contact details for people in head office to escalate issues to. Typically head office will resolve the issue quickly. If not then go to small claims court and DSG will probably settle.