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Retailer Refuses Hardware Repair Due To Linux
Tikka writes "Today I visited PC World (London, UK) because my 5-month-old laptop has developed a manufacturing fault: the hinge to the display has started to crack the plastic casing. Anyone in the know will know that this is due to the joint inside, and it means that in time the screen will separate from the keyboard. Repair was refused, because I have Gentoo Linux on my laptop, replacing the Windows Vista that was pre-installed. PC World said that installing Linux had voided my warranty and there is nothing they will do for me. I spoke to a manager, who said that he has been told to refuse any repairs if the operating system has been changed. I feel this has really gone against my statutory rights and I will do everything I can to fight it. I will review comments for your advice."
Couldn't you just reload Vista back on it, then take it in for repair? It isn't like they could tell the difference. But I do see your point, it is a matter of principle.
Or, just say "Sorry - my data is confidential, you can't have the hard disk".
I just sent the companies customer service a department a link to this posting on Slashdot to remind them that word of mouth still means something, along with a statement that I would never buy from them. If anyone else has got two minutes to spare, do the same. If they get enough maybe it will help this guy out. What a load of crap...
Some day, somebody is going to have to explain to me just what being gay has to do with not supporting software.
Is this some flavour of "pride" that I just hadn't heard of before?
Not the worst place if someone here has had a similar experience. Considering that nearly everybody on this forum uses a computer, most on this forum use or have experience with Linux and most (ok, some) people here are willing to help others, this isn't a bad place to ask first rather then pay a lawyer.
If no such advice comes up (such as "read the 'Warrenty and repairs act of 1999'" or something akin) then go and talk to your lawyer. If that advice does show, he can walk back into the shop and say "According to the warrenty and repairs act of 1999 you are olbiged to fix this problem, or risk a lawsuit and possible termination of your right to sell future products". Apparently (I'm not in the UK) this is a large chain of stores, but the owner might just be a fanchisee. In that case, he can't afford to have the bad publicity of a lawsuit compared to the mere fixing of a hinge.
I would be very suprised if there isn't a law in place in the UK (I am fairly sure that this wouldn't legally happen is Australia) to protect the consumer against this.
I assume you must be a lawyer. A couple hours of a lawyer's time costs more than a brand new laptop.
I see no reason why normal people can't give each other advice that has to do with legal issues, even if the advice sometimes turns out to be "talk to a lawyer" (which, in this case, I think is an option, but certainly not a requirement). You really think every consumer complaint has to be handled by a "professional"?
For that matter, what if I have a squeaky door, can I just ask my handy friend for advice or do I have to hire a certified carpenter? Is there something so special about legal issues that a regular person can't do anything whatsoever, even on the simplest situaton, on their own?
Your attitude tends to either come from 1) people who want to keep everyone in the dark so as to protect their revenue stream or 2) gullible people who are fooled by people in category 1.
I worked for Currys for eight years, and that manager is talking rubbish. We as a company won't resolves issues that stem from you changing your operating system, but for an actual hardware fault your warranty is still good. Please contact me.
For this and other reason I replaced the HDD in my laptop with another one before installing Linux. If it breaks I can swap HDDs again and avoid giving my personal data to the manufacturer and can avoid risking my installation at the same time. Sure, they will probably know I did swap disks, since the original one only has seome hours of sue time on it, but can they do anything about it? I doubt it very much.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I will only buy a laptop if I can change the HD, and I buy a laptop with the smallest HD possible, then the first thing I do is pull the drive, put the biggest one in that I can afford and trust, install my OS of choice, and save the original HD for sending in with the laptop for warranty repair. This way, no sensitive files could be recovered from it as well - which is a nice added bonus when a laptop is send off for repair who-knows-where... Also a good idea to plug in the factory drive every few months and update windows etc. on it, and maybe a few office documents, that way it looks like it's been used in case the RIAA wants to see it :)
Ahhh...PC World. Just last week I was in to purchase a throw away video card so I could install an OS onto a new build machine (the PCI-E graphics card kept hanging the install, but that's another story), and came across a "pre-owned" laptop some schmoo had purchased a month earlier, played with, lost the battery and cds for and was being sold for a very cheap price. Even with the cost of a replaced battery, was still a deal. After speaking to a sales guy (who let's face it, knew less about computers than some of the technphobes I work with)I was told that I would have to wait a bit as store policy said they had to image the disk so they could reset everything to factory standard. I told them straight up, I wasn't all that concerned about having Vista reset to factory standard as I was going to wipe everything when I got home and install Linux anyway. Oh well, we still have to do the back up and restore, company policy. An hour and a half later, I'm paying for my little splurge, and the sales guy is trying to flog me extra warranty cover...for a machine he knows I'm going to take home and "alter". It took me a good ten minutes to get him to stop trying. As if. In the end, screw the customer. It's all about how much they can make for how little effort.
Faith in Chaos
In theory, this mode of failure should be still under warranty because on a docking station a laptop operates at full blast (no power savings) and with the lid closed.
None of them has proper cooling in this mode. Most dissipate a significant proportion of the heat through the keyboard. I have seen Sony keyboards being literally fried by the heat from working on a docking station. So nowdays if I get a docking station from IT my first reaction is to dispose of it and replace it with a Fellowes stand so I can reuse the laptop LCD as a monitor as well.
The only way to deal with UK retailers like this is - you pull a recorder on the table and ask for the statement to be recorded for "Trading Standards purposes". No threats, not screams, no arguments. This is enough to get them into sane mode. Same for phone calls and similar for email. While I have not had that with PC World I have had similar dealings with Misco and others and the magic TS words usually works.
Overall, while IMO the laptop should be warrantied against such failure, specifically in the Linux case the warranty may indeed be void. The reason is that the power management on Linux by default has no thermal feedback. On Centrino derived laptops under Winhoze it does and it will throttle the CPU frequency if the laptop is overly hot (even if you turn the power savings off). I do not see it damaging the case though, it will most likely fry the keyboard membrane.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Let's disentangle the issue here. First the screen crack obviously did not have anything to do with the OS. Second is it reasonable for a company to specify in their warantee that the OS shall be the installed OS and no-other than what they designate? I think there is a reasonable case for the latter.
On cars, the computers keep the engines from over reving or running on too rich a mixture, both of which can damage the hardware. If you mod the software in your engine's computers you void the warrantee.
These days CPUs control the heat and power management in a computer. They control many other hardware issues. For example I had a computer one time that would constantly go to sleep and wake up every 30 seconds. The hard disk was spun up and down every 30 seconds, the power supply shut on and off every 30 seconds and it would do this all night long every night. I never noticed that during the day of course cause it was awake. It ate several hard drives, a fan, and a motherboard. It may or may not have been a software problem-- more likely the PMMU--but something like that could be in the software. Likewise the fan speed is software controlled. Sometimes voltages are too.
While Linux is not designed to destroy a computer, one can't expect every manufacturer to be aware of every flavor of linux or to know if it has the proper drivers and regulations. Someone who runs gentoo is exactly the kind of tweaker who might just try to disable thermal performance limiters.
I dont' see why they can't limit the OS of the computer to certain specifications that they will warantee.
Of course this has nothing to do with the specific problem--the screen crack. But stores to stay in bussinesses have to have policies that are simple and clear. If the manager is not authorized to make exceptions--and he's probably not qualified to do so-- then it's your tough luck perhaps. It's what comes of shopping at a discount store I think. Big corporate policies and limiting customers.
One reason I swithched to macs is that there's only one company to deal with. the store, the maker, and software and the service department are the same company. There's no arguments they can make about whose responsible and they don't make you talk to bangalore to get help.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
This is known to few people and resellers who might refuse to acknowledge it
The Directive applies to
The directive calls for a guarantee of at least 2 years for new goods (or longer if the Member State wishes) where the seller will undertake without extra charge to reimburse the price paid or to replace and/or repair consumer goods if they do not meet the specifications set out in the guarantee statement or relevant advertising.
The goods must
If a defect appears during the first six months following purchase the consumer will not have to prove the product was defective at the moment of delivery. The onus will be on the seller to prove the product was without defect. A consumer will have up to two months following the discovery of the fault to inform the seller. If a defect becomes apparent within the two, or one year, period depending on the type of goods, then the consumer has the right to choose a remedy using the following hierarchy. They can
- Demand repair or replacement within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience. (Free of charge repair refers to the necessary costs to bring the goods "back to conformity")
- If this is impossible, unproportionate or cannot be done within a reasonable time or without significant inconvenience then the consumer can demand a price reduction or can rescind the contract (though not if the defect is minor)
All these rights are free of charge to the customer.See also http://www.wak-tt.com/tt/2yearwarranty1.htm for a summary of the directive (the above is quoted from there).
My personal experience (with BT in this case) is that the various persons I had to talk to all referenced the companys warranty period of 1y to refuse me. I was finally forwarded to a last person who declared my router to be still under 1y guarantee (which it clearly wasn't - I was several months over, but still below 2y). My guess is that companies would rather not admit that they are really subject to this legislation.
You might need some patience - but the law is on your side. This is at least one good thing that the EU has done for us.
That may be so for a US outfit (thans for reminding me not to buy from CompUSA ;-) - this is not so in the UK although shops will pretend that to be the case.
:-).
:-).
The laptop is classified as "electrical goods" and it's actually so that legally he may have more rights than the warranty allows (and that he knows of). The law in the UK knows something called "mechantable quality" (based on reasonable product life expectancy) - if I buy a washing machine and it fails in 18 months while I have a warranty for 12 the retailer will STILL be required to repair the thing (not replace, though).
As batteries only have a life expectancy of about 1 year you won't be able to use that for battery problems, but a laptop can reasonably be expected to function more than 2 years and can otherwise be deemed "not of mechantable quality", the retail of such goods breaks the UK sales of goods act (AFAIK, IANAL and it's been a while since I had to throw bricks like this around
Few consumers know just how many rights they have, and the lack of decent enforcement has created a retailer culture of "getting away with it". Knowledge is a fine thing
Insert
But pretty gay of Acer to not even support their own software on OS's they wrote it for
Or to use an older (19th century) derogatory slang in the same vein, they jewed him.
What do you think Walpurgiss, perhaps it was a little Negro of them?
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
I don't know, oldies today....
0) BACKUP YOUR DATA
0.5) Overwrite/delete ALL data
1) remove hard disk
2) hit it repeatedly on the table until hard disk fails to boot
3) return entire device to store
If only Gary Glitter had followed these steps
bah!*@%!