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Newton II - Does The Rumor Have Legs This Time?
Ian Lamont writes "Mike Elgan at ComputerWorld has an interesting analysis of the small computing market, and predicts that the market is primed to take off. He admits that small computers have been tried before and failed ('Every single UMPC device that has been shipped or announced suffers from lousy usability, high prices, poor performance, ill-conceived user interfaces, or any combination of the above') but he points to several recent products — and a rumor — that he says changes the playing field and paves the way for the first-ever successful small computer, from Apple. The products are the iPhone and the iPod touch. The rumor: Apple Insider has sources who claim that Apple is actually working on a 'modern day Newton' to be released in the first half of 2008. The device will supposedly have a version of Mac OS X Leopard and a touch interface, according to Apple Insider. A lot of people just aren't buying it. They point to the fact that the first Newton eventually flopped. A few note that similar Newton II rumors have been trotted out in years past, as well as a high-profile hoax. Nothing ever came of them." Would you buy if the Newton came back?
It better fix the Beat up Martin = eat up Martha handwriting recognition bug.
Would you buy if the Newton came back?
It depends on how Apple begins to treat the iPhone hacks going around. If they stop the cat and mouse game to please the AT&T gods with disabling and "bricking" the altered iPhones, then maybe I would consider it. Hell, I was considering an iPhone until this whole bricking deal came to be.
I'm sorry but Steve Jobs wouldn't be where he was today if it weren't for a rabid fan base and he's quickly killing off the fan base by linking up with the douchebags of the world and killing off those that love Apple's devices the most -- true fans.
The Newton is already back, it's called the iPhone
#!/
I wouldn't just buy it, I'd buy 2 so I could jack off all over the other one.
1) It was released too early (needed another 3-4 months shaking out before hitting the shelves).
2) Synchronizing data was a painful process involving lots of cable manipulation, app-launching, etc. (the Palm had a dock: very easy)
3) Too expensive (by about $500)
4) Too large (Palm got it right)
5) NewtonScript was nice, but too weird. A C++ dev kit would have helped a lot (but was politically impractical in the Newton group)
6) Apple management wanted royalties on applications (which was just absolute bugf*ck insanity)
[Yeah, I worked on it.]
Any sufficiently advanced technology is insufficiently documented.
Would you buy if the Newton came back?
May the force be with me.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
So your post boils down to a 'No'?
I agree that the bricking of iPhones was a piss poor move. Though I suppose if they did release a Newton II that it would likely do everything that people wanted to hack their iPhones to do but lack the cell phone capability.
After all the technology for a Newton II and iPhone are not that unrelated.
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
Isn't the iPhone a Newton, essentially? And I know a lot of Slashdotters are going to say "no you idiot it's a phone and doesn't have handwriting recognition and X and Y and Z!" but come on people that's not what I mean. The iPhone is a little, handheld computer, yes? It also has voice-communication built in, which we call a phone. So it doesn't have handwriting recognition. That might actually be a good thing! Actually maybe it is a lot harder to make apps for the iPhone? (I don't know.)
that bug was fixed in the last two versions of the newton. But by then it was too late. Since then the Newton's technology sows up in hidden places through out OS X. Inkwell is that very tech, And it works just fine.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
I would indeed buy it. I still use a MessagePad 2100 that's far more reliable and longer-lived that the iPaq I purchased to replace it - even if, yes, the iPaq had more capabilities.
I'd love to have the best of both worlds - reliability, great handwriting recognitiion (yes the last Newtons had that), with a color screen, WiFi, and hackability.
I don't believe the rumors, though.
If Windows thrives on "Developers Developers Developers" then Apple needs "Rumors Rumors Rumors".
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Isn't the iPhone basically what the Newton was supposed to be, but with a soft-keyboard rather than text recognition (which could be added to 2.0 easily enough)?
Test your net with Netalyzr
for the iPhone. Perhaps they're holding off for a iNewton? I'd friggin buy an OS X PDA in a second, just for safari, and the flexibility of a UNIX subsystem would just be extra goodies.
Why do people think Apple has a choice in the matter? Apple most likely has a contractual obligation to ATT requiring due diligence in the case that someone finds a workaround to their exclusive contract.
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I dont think so, it would compete with the Iphone. Now if they came back with the Ibook but just all beefed up for this century that would be cool.
dead.
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
I have wondered for a long time if the Newton would resurface. I don't think it was a bad product idea, I just think it arrived before its time. Today it might succeed for 2 reasons:
1) Much greater technology penetration of main stream markets. (Not just for nerds anymore. Or perhaps "its hip to be square.")
2) CPU speeds are fast enough today to allow for a more advanced GUI in a portable device.
Think Deeply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMate_300
I believe that there is more talk of a sub notebook than a newton.
But what they hay. Put out a story that references an updated Newton, and you are guaranteed to get lots of eyeballs - truth be damned.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
I could pay the extra bucks for a Treo or iPhone to combine Palm functions w/ a phone, but I'm cheap.
For those who need it, i would be a good option. I actually liked a friends Newton many years ago, but again, never had need for one.
HexaByte - he's a square and a half!
Best handwriting recognition of any device still, hands down. Though right now its more of a franken-newton, being cobbled together of as many new parts as possible. The only original part is now the motherboard, which is from a newton I salvaged in a yardsale a long time ago. And if I could clone it, I would in a heartbeat.
Though I am tempted on trying to compile the Einstein emulator on my iPhone, and using one of the two styluses designed for the iPhone that are being produced. But its not just the fantastic handwriting recognition that brings me back to it every year; its the large screen. The Newton was never meant to be a PDA, as it was made before that term was even cobbled together. It was originally developed to try and supplant the current buisness laptop. Longer battery life, more portable, and you can write, fax, etc with it. If you realize this, and that it was not a device built for comically big pockets, then it hit the mark perfectly.
How can you tell it hit the mark? Alright, users of Palm 3's, rase your hand. (*glances around*)
Psion 7 out there? (*glances around, sees a couple hiding in the closet*).
It hit the mark because we still talk about it. We still crave for it to come back. It might of even been around today if the spin-off company making them was not bought back by Apple shortly before Jobs got back, which he axed with childlike glee becuase it did not fit into his picture of a "user experience" device.
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
If they decide to enter the ultra-portable computer market ala OQO and others, it will not - ever - be called "Newton". No-way, nada, snowball in hell has a better chance.
Why?
Oh - I don't know - apart from the fact that that project was the darling of the very man WHO HELPED OUSTER JOBS IN 1985. But as we all know - Steve Jobs wouldn't dare knee-jerk product decision based on grudges or personal feelings. Naw. Never. Pay it no mind.
Newton's back - ayep...
Then question is WHY would I buy it? Hell, I still have a mobile phone from 2002 and I won't change it. I don't have an ipod and don't want one. I don't even THINK about buying an iPhoney. I really don't need those things, so why would I need a newton? Because Appl has designed it?
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Then question is WHY would I buy it? Hell, I still have a mobile phone from 2002 and I won't change it. I don't have an ipod and don't want one. I don't even THINK about buying an iPhoney. I really don't need those things, so why would I need a newton? Because Apple has designed it?
Because I use a modern mobile device and do a lot of mo-photoblogging and enjoy having access to the web/AIM wherever I am. I don't care what YOU need, it's what I want.
They will just brick it if I install anything "unauthorized" on it.
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
The Lisa II.
If they took the technology in the iPhone and put it into a form factor that was more like a Day Planner than a Phone, then you would have a Truly Awesome companion device. Make it cover most of the functions of the iPhone, except for the phone part, and have it sync with the phone over Bluetooth. Give it WiFi and the ability to use a stylus -- but only in a pinch for lots of data entry or sketching. You'd want to build on the multi-touch goodness. Heck, with multi-touch my iPhone is already a better eBook for PDFs than my Sony Reader, and it's not even hacked! (I just put them on my personal website and view them in Safari. I put them in their own tab, and they stay there for a couple of hours without my having to download them again. Multi-touch rocks for reading stuff.)
There are situations where you wouldn't want your phone *and* a planner, but there are plenty of situations at work where you would find both very useful, but it would be cumbersome to drag a full-blown laptop along. In a larger form factor, the apps already on the iPhone would really rock. The iPhone would still be vital because of its form factor. You could still enter contact data and look at your agenda in a pinch. But for heavy-duty work, the additional screen real estate would be a big win.
First off, he thinks the UMPC problem is basically interface.
It isn't. UMPCs suffer because they're way too much computer for a portable device, and cost way too much. Let's face it, most people don't need desktop power shrunk to a 7 inch screen; we could use it, but only if it didn't cost more. The problem is that UMPCs are cool, but they cost considerably more than the cheapest laptop.
He also mentions Nokia's upcoming tablet, then dismisses it out-of-hand by pointing to the company's dispersion. Hold on. That's about the only reason that doesn't make sense. This product will be Nokia's third generation entry into the field, after the n770 and the n800. You can argue that "Nokia hasn't gotten it right yet, and they're not this time"; you can claim that "They won't be able to get the retail channels for their 'non-cellphone cellophone'"; you can claim that they still haven't put a basic software suite together -- all those would be questionable, but valid responses. But "Nokia has too many pots in the fire?" Uh, they have _one_ pot in the fire, and it happens to use a lot of the same parts as their cellphone mobile devices (reducing their cost of entry into the market).
Finally, he says the "Newton II" will be a winner if it's under $1000. Dude, we're talking about mobile devices here. Gadget freaks, especially those who get their toys for free, love all the cool stuff that comes with the high price tag. What Apple and Nokia are showing is that you don't need a $1000 device to give fundamental internet access.
Do the math this way: take a $400 internet tablet, and a $600 desktop computer. What are the limitations going to be using these two on a daily basis vs. what a $1000 table can do? Now remember that most of your target market already has a computer, and one better than $600. The real killer in this field is going to be cheap and with a good interface, not $999 and the apple brand. That way lies the Newton I
- sammy iPhone; Touch; 1st gen shuffle
Exactly; Newton didn't "eventually flop". From what I've read, it flopped on Day 1, but then became useable and a decent product. However, the Newton was never able to overcome the baggage of all that initial bad press. Building a good product isn't enough, you've also got to market it right.
I think this position misses the premise (which I happen not to believe).
The only reason the iPhone and iPod touch aren't the next generation Newton is that they aren't sold, supported, or configured as platforms for running third party software. If a "Next Generation Newton" was locked down, it wouldn't be a "Newton", it would be an iPod.
The whole thing boils down to money. Apple tried selling PDAs, and they didn't make a ton of money. By making the iPhone not a PDA, they not only get a nice chunk of rental revenue from AT&T, they avoid playing a game that they tried before and lost.
However, timing is important in business. Companies are getting out of the PDA business, which means it is time for a contrarian business to consider getting in. The big question with Apple is, what are they going to do to get people to buy more of their stuff? After a few more generations of iPhone and iPod, it's bound to become a harder sell. So a lateral move into a different product category is plausible, although it isn't inevitable they'll go back into the PDA business.
Maybe something that look a lot like the PDA business though. If I was smart enough to know what that might be, I'd be rich.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Just like the iPhone, until Steve unwrapped it one day.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Only if it comes pre-bricked and they instantly drop $200 off the price two days after.
Well YES I would buy one.... we have been waiting for 9 years for a new Newton. Remember the faithful holding their Newtons up high every time Steve Jobs took the stage? The Newton was way ahead of it's time and while it was no where as portable as the Palm you could actually use it as a notepad at work. I tried the Palm and about every other PDA that came out after Steve axed the Newton and they simply did not measure up. I guess it all depends on what you are using the device for. Bring it on Steven.... you've got my money!
A PDA derivative of the iPhone could essentially be the "Newton II". Here is why:
1. The hardware, OS, and interface are pretty mature (most current PDAs are lacking in one of those dept's)
2. It would explain why Apple is not allowing 3rd party apps for the iPhone (it would be a "Newton II" exclusive) and why they have painstakingly removed most PDA "features" from the Touch.
3. Being based on OS X, it would be trivial developing new applications for the "Newton II".
I don't have a single apple product and could sh*t less. Thinking different means not relying on mental crutches, like accusing someone of being a 'fanboi' when they have anything slightly positive to say about a corporation.
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I can very close to buying a Touch but it is still crippled. No BT, no calendar edit, no mic, etc.
Here is what I want:
No bigger than the iPhone
Bluetooth
HWR
SD Slot
WiFi
Java
Microphone
32GB Flash
8 Hr Battery
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
First- they chose to get into that contract. So yes, they DID have a choice in the matter. In addition, breaking the contract is always a choice.
Secondly- stopping a workaround is not the same as purposefully destroying hardware that someone else has bought and paid for. If an individual did that instead of a company, they'd be arrested for destruction of private property.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
I just bought an iPod touch. And it's pretty much the greatest gadget I've ever owned. I love it.
I think a lot of what makes it great, though, is that the interface for Safari is heavily tweaked for web surfing. It's really easy to pan and scan around, and you can pinch and expand to zoom in and out. One of the most useful features is the ability to tap on a section of a web page and have it adjust the zoom intelligently to frame the text or photo you're dealing with. And then there's that turning the device on its side and having the screen roll with you thing.
The result of all of this is that you can surf really well on a very small device. I wouldn't have thought a full browser could be so usable on such a small device, but they did it, and it's great.
The other apps, though, aren't nearly as usable. The music player has cover flow, which is really quick and useful -- I didn't think it would be before I bought the touch, but it is. It's not that they're bad. It's just that all of that insanely great UI stuff is tweaked specifically for web browsing. The stuff that it does is aimed at that problem, and a lot of times the features aren't even implemented in other apps.
The point is that what they've done is different from making a new kind of widget set for portable devices. On a normal desktop system, and on a normal PDA, you have a widget set that lets apps run in GUIs and behave in standard ways. This has very specific gui tweaks for a key app, safari.
I think the philosophical change of the touch (and the iPhone, obviously) is that the designers seem to be working from the premise that usable UI on such a small device is challenging enough that you have to tweak things very specifically for the app of the moment, and not just use something more general like MFC.
So Safari is tweaked out brilliantly, and it's flat out amazing. The music player is ok, it's certainly functional, but it's not so amazing. It's not "I can't believe how cool this is" great.
I kind of wish I had my old iPod video interface back, honestly. Or I wish I could zoom in and out, to change the size of the type on my podcasts, because sometimes long titles are hard to read.
So the question is, how are you going to make a really great PDA? Do you have to have genius UI designers working on every app? I mean, how are you going to do IM on these things? How do you get around that "entering text sucks" barrier? And there's going to be some usability problem like that popping up over and over again in app after app.
(I think this is part of why they want to keep these things locked down -- I believe that Jobs really hates the idea of people running ugly unusable apps on his devices.)
I mean, they could make a PDA, and they could use the tech they already have, and it would probably be just another PDA with a standard general interface, and an insanely great web browser. And that would be cool. But I think they're more ambitious than that.
I love speculation. Lets all try! Go ahead, make claims or deny them! Post fake pictures of it on every forum you find! As with all apple products, random, fruitless speculation is easy and fun!
Here's my go:
Since apple has denied it, that's how we know they're lying! Someone who works for someone who knows someone's sister who works at apple said that it will be a holographic display, which will project a 3D interface! LIsten n00bs! It will be slightly larger than an iPhone, but still small enough to be pocket sized. That means it will fit in ur pocket! I hear it will be called the iHolo and will sell for around $900. It will come in black, pink, and bullshit brown. I 3 apple!!!111
What's hard to do is to control the whole user experience to the level Apple and Steve Jobs wants to. I think this is why the iPhone didn't support 3rd party apps at first. It's one thing if one of your programs fails on your laptop/desktop. It's another when your're walking around and your phone breaks. With something like a data tablet, there would be more leeway.
I've owned multiple Palm devices, and I now own the iPhone. Palms were nice for keeping info, but ultimately not worth the trouble of lugging and extra device around. If some sort of Apple data tablet succeeds, then it will have to have functions not covered by the iPhone. You will be able to do the iPhone functions with more screen real estate and comfort, but there will be additional functions.
Something that acted like a 21st century Newton and also acted as a graphics tablet would rock. Such a device would also be a kick-ass eBook reader. Doctors would love the thing. (My ex, when she was in med school, had a Sony made PalmOS device pretty much to just to carry around pharmacological reference material. Practically everyone in med school had a PDA for that purpose.)
The tech in the iPhone has a lot of potential if you put it in something the size of a day planner.
Yes! sad to see Palm died recently, really like it as well.
welcome on earth there is 6billion of us around. Time to look out of your head.
Something like a Newton, but with Multi-Touch would ROCK. You could just keep the stylus in the holster until you actually needed to draw something.
Here's why:
1. The screen, by definition, isn't big enough.
2. Handwriting recognition sucks.
3. Speech recognition sucks.
2 and 3 are the big problems, because if you have 100% accurate speech OR handwriting recognition, you can get away with a smaller screen, since you don't need to see a lot of menus and such if your can simply "talk" to your computer.
Sadly, we're still pretty far away from truly universal speech/handwriting recognition. Which means that if you really want a portable computer, you pretty much need a notebook so you can have a large screen and a full-size keyboard. The PDA market is more-or-less dead these days because almost everyone that bought a PDA eventually realized this.
It's bluster so ATT doesn't take them to court. Do you think Apple cares if DRM was broken in Itunes? The only reason it was there was to appease the record companies.
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I almost bought an iPod Touch. I didn't care if it played music or not; that's sort of an "icing on the cake" thing. The movie thing is nice, too, but not huge. But it looked to be a UMPC that I could like. That was until the calendar disabling. Then you couldn't use it as a disk. Oh, and the screen is really too small. I've said (here and several other places) many times before that what I want is something the size of a Steno pad (in all three dimensions) that has a minimum of buttons and no hardware keyboard. Yeah, I want a "PADD" from Star Trek: TNG. I think most business people would use one for their primary computer, leaving their "desktop" machine to gather dust.
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
I have a 770, and it's great. The screen is beautiful, the OS is acceptable. It plays movies, mp3s, has a fine Linux terminal, tho you don't have to know it's running Linux if you don't want to. Bluetooth keyboard works fine (better with this than with the Palm I bought it for). Got it on Woot for $125. Used it for an art project for Burning Man. I'd have paid $500+ if it was exactly the same but ran embedded OSX instead.
Biggest problem: custom, expensive memory chips (MMC Mobile, which as far as I can tell are only used by Nokia, 2gb max, $50). It doesn't need a hard drive but if it's going to play music I need at least 8GB, movies as much as I can get. Could be a lot faster, too, but I would expect that to be fixed in later versions.
That said, I sincerely hope the rumors are true. I also had several of the Newtons, and loved them. Their biggest problem with the 2100 was connectivity - instead of the silly interconnect port, they could have given it a USB port, and made the sync software work properly. If they'd kept up development by now we'd have a fine color screen, many GB of memory, movies, mp3s, etc. My MacBook is great - but I can't be bothered to schlepp it back and forth to work with me (I keep an iBook G3 on my desk as an MP3 player). I do think that referring to it as "Newton II" is the surest way to kill the project completely - just hope Steve doesn't read that part of the Internet.
The one other feature I'd like added is what they were calling "Home on iPod" which apparently worked but was never released. When I dock my palmtop, I'd like it to act as my home folder, and store preferences and a few documents. Of course this argues that I'll need a bunch more memory.
(I tried to make a comment on his site but it appears to accept comments and discard them.)
I wanted a Newton when they originally shipped. I definately want one now! The issues the Newton have has been overcome in the general market thanks to the advancement of technology. If this comes out, I will retire my Palm V finally, providing it is as well built as the original Newtons.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
I worked on some of the first third party software, released on Newton's day one. It was a very, very good and solid product to use and develop for. By the last model, there was only one thing still wrong with it as a device - the form factor. It was a bit too big and heavy for a pocket. But that would have been very quickly addressed. Politics alone killed the Newton. Now, I look forward to a true successor, the tablet TouchMac. It WILL happen.
Mike from www.myallo.com/blog
It'll be an ipod touch, with a bigger screen, basically. And if they have a display that can be read outdoors, it'll sell like hotcakes.
I think this Newton rumour is more likely because Apple is being aggressive at keeping third party apps off the iPhone and particularly the iPod Touch. Wouldn't want those two interfering with the launch of a real PDA, would we?
Jobs is famous for not allowing a product to see the light of day until it meets his standards. PDAs with styluses really do suck, but everybody seems to love the idea of a multitouch PDA.
I don't think it's going to be the equivalent of a tablet PC though. No keyboard is a big drawback there. In the future, when multitouch matures a bit, maybe Apple will consider a tablet with an onscreen keyboard though.
...only you can do it, man!
Not just bad press, bad user experiences.
In my opinion, the Newton deserved to die. At one point my family had one and it was the clunkiest most anemic device we'd ever used.
A year later my father got a Palm Professional - It kicked the Newton's ass handily, and was a fraction of the price of the model of Newton we had (I forget which one.)
As to Newton II - As I see it, iPhone = Newton II.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Since the Mac began, Apple have taken the approach that if they provide a very tightly controlled 'string' for users to begin to pull and massage, they will wind up with a robust, tested feature they can then buy/squelch and implement for themselves.
The hot feature of today started out as the 'bricking' of yesterday.
Themes in OSX? Impossible - then... Not so much.
Third party apps on iPhone? Impossible - then... Not so much.
Non-Apple Widgets on an Apple device? Impossible - until the rabid fan base who is not deterred by the firehose in the face treatment get busy and produce extremely clever hacks.
Mac OS X on Non-Apple Hardware? Impossible - until the rabid fan base dissected their OS to the point where they found the hooks.
In all these cases, the 'key' was the bare paperclip Apple left behind for the purpose.
If nobody writes games for it, what's the point?
He who said 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 typewriters would eventually type the great novel, never saw an AOL chat room
Since I HAVE to have a cell phone, my next PDA must include it. I don't want to carry 2 devices anymore. I don't want to converge my toaster and my car stereo, but I do want to converge the 2 things I take everywhere: phone & PDA*.
If Apple's PDA is also a phone, and if it is an open platform, AND if its capabilities are on par with what I can already get from the Windows Mobile world--640x480 screen, bluetooth, wifi, crapload** of software--then maybe I will buy in to it.
* I would have converged already, but I can't find a gadget that basically combines my Dell x50v PDA with a phone. Overseas, sure, such gadgets are all over. But I am not buying something with no local warranty support, like an unlocked HTC. Every PDA I have ever had has needed warranty service at some point so I really want a domestic support network.
Maybe the gadget of my desires is out there now. I only look every 6 months or so.
** Yes, it's a softload of crapware, but there are enough good apps to keep me on the platform for now. Jebus & Cthulhu, please, let Apple release a PDA worth having. The iPhone ain't it.
I'm not sure I want to try buying yet another PDA type device. I have my Treo and it works for that.
So I'd probably not buy a new Newton. I'll tell you what I would buy, and I think apple is the company to produce it right.
An Apple Tablet. Not something small but something with like a 12" screen, or maybe something more like a sheet of paper sized thing.
A slate, not a convertible. I want something with a high res screen, designed more for artists than business. (Although a OneNote like application would be nice too)
If it had multi-touch on the screen that would be nice, but really all I want is a decent pen. (preferably a wacom)
I don't know if they are going to make such a thing, but it is the thing that I would like. I keep looking at TabletPCs, and refuse to spend the money on one because I know they could be so much better.
Ah well I can dream.
I had the MessagePad 2100. I thought it was superb and beat the pants off the Palm. Even though I worked for the company that at one time ownned it (U.S. Robotics), I didn't believe my co-workers' raves.
But one thing this new hardware would need that the old one didn't have is to have much better syncing.
Depends on whether it met my needs as well as or better than my current setup.
I'd like something smaller, lighter and preferably tougher than my black MacBook. But I need to be able to type (fast), get photos onto it from my DSLR, and burn stuff to DVDs. That might be a lot to ask of a "newton ii"
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IMO, the Newton was killed just when the market and technology was ready for it. The Palm Pilot just hit the market and was taking off. Now, we have Apple with the iPhone they need to restrict to make telco's happy but they also have this really nicely patented and usable UI and packaging... They could rip out the telco chips, throw in a video driver chip and make an 3rd party open device for the Nokia N770/N800 space. With VOIP and wireless, email, PIM, and a VGA connector for presentations it would make a splash at any office meeting.
Sounds cool to me but I would rather see a Linux implementation if they could get all the nice gesture stuff working smoothly as Apple does. It is marketing which killed of the PDA market more than the phone market. I don't see even halt the number of smartphone users around as I used to see using PDA's(Palm, Handspring, Sony, and even iPaqs). When the marketing stopped and it didn't seem cool anymore, people slowly left the devices in the desk and doing that for just one month can kill the battery for good. Non replaceable batteries also fixed the life expectancy and probably lead to many EOL scenarios.
Ive me a fully open iPhonePDA and a keychain telco wireless phone module with Bluetooth support and it'll be cool once again to have a PDA. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Apple may intend to make a PDA-type device, but I very much doubt they intend to get into the PDA business. Consumers don't want PDAs and Apple is a consumer company. Consumers want "web tablets" or whatever. We'll probably call them iTablets (or whatever Apple call theirs), in much the same way "iPod" has become a generic term for a digital music player. I want a web tablet thingy. I don't want a PDA, but I do want a web browser on a slim A5-ish touch screen.
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The 'hoax' iWalk looks like an early iPhone, its been in development for over 3 years and this could well be a prototype. Will there be a new Newton, yes but we don't know when. i'm buying for sure
Q: How many Newtons does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Foux! There to eat lemons, axe gravy soup.
A republic cannot succeed till it contains a certain body of men imbued with the principles of justice and honour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton
The Newton was a very nice piece of work. Physically it was a little clunky due to it's size but it had a nice size screen, pcmcia card support, and support for an external modem. You can see why it was a little too big. But it had a nice OS, nice programming language, nice user-interface, lots of networking options, and the handwriting recognition was fast and good. Don't forget, Grafitti was also an option.
I remember running a Gopher client on it over a modem.
Also, people sometimes forget about the eMate (a newton and an ultra-compact rolled into one). The eMate was a great idea.
I'd totally buy a Newton II if Apple made it. Of the 6 PDAs I've had (I still use a Tungsten C) the Newton was my favorite.
But I can also see them coming back with an iMate
I'm with you. Give us an awesome UI device and let it connect to everything else if needed. It's the darn Telco's who are forcing the platform/hardware layout the way they want it so they can lock in users to their service.
Give us a PADD and let us worry about the UI and applications and let the Telco's worry about making the network reliable. The iPhone hardware would make a great v1 PADD with wider models later on.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I found that customers fell into several different classifications:
You can't meet all of these criteria with one device. Hell, you can hardly even meet any two of these with one device. And that was a big part of the problem, was that the manufacturers wanted to sell one device - or one line of very similar devices - to every customer.
But yet it still seemed that the manufacturers measured the success of their devices by comparing to PC sales, which was idiotic to say the least. Therefore many of the systems that had solid markets, if they weren't made by 3com/USR (or Palm after I left), either weren't carried in stores long enough to sell, or weren't carried at all. Hell, the Libretto I only learned of through a customer of ours who came in and asked why we were carrying the picturebook but not the Libretto, when very few customers cared about the lousy camera on the Sony.
Basically, my conclusion is that the market has killed itself off. There is room for diversity, but where is it? There isn't any. Basically you buy a palm, or a winCE copy of one, or you don't buy anything reasonably portable at all. What happened to the clamshell units that had tiny keyboards AND fit in your pocket? They're gone, likely to never be seen again. What happened to running PDA's on AA / AAA batteries? After all, some travelers don't always have 4 power adapters with them for everything they use while on the road...
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
UH...What do you think the iTouch is. They'll just expand the functionality....it's obvious....
I want an affordable (>$500 2007 dollars), multi-purpose (music / web / email / ebook / addresses), computing device, that isn't tied to being a cell phone.
Consumers don't want Windows Mobile, and they don't want Palm OS Hacket, but they do want PDAs. Otherwise, hacking the iPhone and the iPod wouldn't even be an issue.
If these rumors are accurate, then what was the point of producing the iPod Touch as a separate product? There certainly wasn't any need for a test market of such a device, since we already had the iPhone. The iPod Touch is merely a crippled version of the former and offers little in benefits above the iPhone itself. Any Apple branded PDA is likely to be almost identical in hardware to the Touch (WiFi, touch display, etc...) with the only real difference being in the software itself.
Most likely this would be the same "OS X", but with a few slightly more robust apps and some iPod functionality. There's really no reason for Apple to box up yet a third product under a new name when both the iPhone and iPod touch could simply be patched to this newer OS package.
A slightly more realistic scenario would be for Apple to break from the tradition of tying the PDA OS to a device in hardware and create a PDA OS that can be truly upgraded whenever a new major update is released. They could then sell these updates for $50 or so with major updates to the applications included... sort of like their current iLife apps for the Mac. However, we may still face the no third party apps policy as a continued trade-off for this feature. After all, Apple doesn't want to deal with thousands of iBricks after each update with limitless possible causes. (Such as the situation with the v1.1.1 update for iPhone and iPod Touch right now.)
What we can do, however, is look for many of the linux-based PDAs to start employing more iPhone-like features, while still retaining the expandability options available from 3rd party developers. Companies like Nokia are getting close to managing this already.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Let's see, the Newton died in 1998; at that time a current desktop CPU was roughly 200MHz and 500 MIPS. Something that could fit the power, heat and price profiles of a handheld was more like 50MHz and 50 MIPS. The MessagePad 2100 had 4MB of RAM, for god's sake. Imagine how much modern software you could run with 50 MIPS and 4MB! Arguably, the Newton was running software that was way ahead of its time, albeit hamstrung by having to run on hardware that was merely OF its time.
Handwriting recognition is hard, but what if you could afford to spend a billion instructions per second on it? What if you had a 4 GFLOPS CPU that consumed 15W fully loaded? What if you could fit 1GB of memory and a couple amp-hours of battery in a handheld? Hey, guess what, we can do that now.
The truth is that something the size of a steno pad would not sell, because it's simply too large to have with you all the time - even sub notebooks just aren't as popular as real notebooks.
I also disagree the Touch (or iPhone) screen size is too small. I watch it while jogging (on a treadmill) and it's perfectly easy to view. Being able to hold it steady and/or closer (as on a plane) would only make it better. And on a plane specifically I would not want a larger screen because they are too distracting - even the LCD's they have on the backs of many seats now I find too distracting if someone is watching a movie, and a laptop is really bad - I've tried watching my own movies on a flight before but I shot the laptop screen down after a while because it was too large (not to mention how awkward it is to use when the person in front of you has the seat back).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Not sure how you missed it, but the iPhone has a lat of third party apps - it's just that the loading mechanism is not officially supported. Putting your hands over your eyes going LA LA LA THERE ARE NO APPZ however does nothing expect make you appear extremely ill-informed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
My dream gadget would be something a somewhat larger than a iPhone/Palm/Zaurus, smaller than the Thinkpad X-series I usually carry. Tablet form-factor, probably sans keyboard, but with a well-protected screen? Reasonably open architecture. SD-card reader that could play MP3 and Xvid. Bluetooth, wifi, USB-on-the-go. The critical feature, though, is the screen... high-res, low power, readable in the sun. A black and white mode is fine for this. I want to get away from paper books. I want to load a few dozen books, PDF articles, automatically-retrieved magazines, RSS feeds, etc, and have it display for 12-hours-plus on a charge. But, I want this same e-book reader to be usable for some web-browsing and media as well.
In some ways, a high-end OLPC.
I *despise* handwriting. I don't like doing it on paper, why would I want to do so electronically? Typing is much easier, and clearer for the device to grok what you are writing. What are good are gestures, but that's a separate matter from handwriting recognition.
I did kind of like Grafitti but more because it was a sort of gesture-based keyboard than it was handwriting. I currently find the iPhone keyboard to be the best solution for small device input, because I think dynamic per-app keyboard layouts are the way to go for input (like a specialized keyboard in Safari for when you are entering a phone number in a web form).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If it's much bigger than my N800, doesn't have any kind of physical keyboard* support, and is as closed/limited as the 'Touch or iPhone? Then I'll stick with my N800.
... Apple will have to beat the N800 in this regard ... and I greatly preferred the N800 finger keyboard over the iPhone's)
... so windows mobile is right out). So Apple has been my natural choice for the last 7 years. I bought the n800 for the above reasons (bluetooth keyboard, ssh, open 3rd party software platform), instead of the iPhone or iPod Touch, and am in love with it.
... at this point, I doubt I'll notice nor care.
I chose the n800 over Apple because:
= open - great 3rd party app ecosystem (incl ssh and vnc)
= bluetooth keyboard, stylus screen keyboard, finger screen keyboard*
An N800 + freedom input slim (thumb) keyboard == micro laptop. Plus, theres rumors that the nextgen will have a slide-out keyboard. And WiMax.
(* I just wish the N800 had support for usb keyboards, like the dreamgear mini (thumb) keyboard
The N800 has been a big surprise for me. I have been a NeXT fan for 15 years, and as a result hated any Linux gui I came across before Hildon (thee n800's gui). I've also always been a pro bsd bigot (and anti-windows bigot
If they get it to sync contacts, calendar, and bookmarks with google (or bookmarks with delicious), and maybe more dynamic/integrated spell checking, then I don't know why I'd ever look back. Esp since someone is working on a version of hildon for the desktop.
So, most likely, ven though 9 months ago I'd have drooled over an OS X PDA like the rumored Newton II
Note that the last Newtons had ARM chips that were faster than some modern PDAs, so there isn't a huge amount you'd want to improve with the design.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
It was held back due to obscene pricing, then killed off by Jobs in revenge when he returned.
And ya, i did buy one, and ya it hurt the pocket book. Still have it, and it still works.
While i dont believe it will ever return, it would be a 'really great thing', as long as it was created in the same light as the orginainal. A true PDA from the start, not some sort of desktop OS shoehorned into a too small handheld device.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Here's what I'm hoping for:
A Macbook looking subnotebook with that special rotating tablet hinge (done right, super durable), 6 to 10" touch sensitive 16:9 LCD , full range of ports (same as macbook), usable as a laptop or tablet, builtin bluetooth, wifi, gps, capable of using the iPhone for internet access, solid state hard drive, long life batteries... something like that.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills
I don't think it has a microphone, but bluetooth should make up for that. It's also a little bigger than the iPhone.
http://www.palm.com/us/products/handhelds/tx/tx_specs.html
Help find a cure for cancer!
I also agree, the size of the newton was perfect for usability. Modern day handhelds are just too small to be general purpose. However, if you get much bigger then the original ( a paper back pocket book ) then its too big, and might as well get a tablet.
:)
So ya, in a way size does matter
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I found it the perfect size to use while sitting on the crapper.
Please somebody give me something to replace my Palm IIIxe. I use the damn thing feverently and everything since has been shite. After 10 years of Graffiti I'm ready for something new. An ultra-thin digitizer that would enable fine drawing with the stylus would be wonderful. I'll even give up a little battery life.
I don't think I would buy one because Uncle Steve is locking his systems down. I don't like it, I use OpenOffice because I don't want to be locked in to it, I have been using it for years. Until Apple shows that they are back to opening up their products, they wont get any of my money.
Consumers don't hack stuff.
When Steve came back, he effectively emasculated the Newton, put a Uni-nipple on it, shrunk it's screen, and called 'her' iPod.
It's primal, to be sure, but it's instinctive for a mammalian male (Alpha) to slaughter the offspring of a lower ranking animal when returning to or joining a pack.
It's still there in business, it just plays out differently.. This is the deal:
The Newton had to die for the iPod to be born, but the original utility is too timeless to go away forever.
I always said that if my Newton were only as large as its screen, half as thick, and in color, it would be about perfect. It already had wireless access, fantastic document capabilities (Newton Books are kewl), and stupendous battery life. This is the big 'but' - last I checked, the iPhone is COMPLETELY LACKING the #1 Killer Feature (TM) of the Newton - handwriting.
Handwriting needs to come back, because that stupid thumb keyboard is a nightmare. You've already got Inkwell - use it, Steve.
Innovate.. Innovate.. How about a new dialing mechanism? Do for phone numbers what Grafiti did for letters?
Plus, handwritten text messages would absolutely kill. My Grandmother, if I had any, would be able to deal with that. With *joy*.
Scribbling shell commands to machines would earn deep-seated loyalties..
Given Apple's recent direction towards more proprietary systems, more restrictions, and more proprietary APIs, no, I wouldn't buy one. I also don't really like their dev tools.
As a Newton developer from way back, I couldn't resist having my iPlod Touche engraved, -Newton MessagePad II-. The only real difference between Type I and the new type iI is the lack of apps, which will be overcome using the web SDKs that are supported. no need for the NTK. The more I use my iPT, the more of the Newton I see in it.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Like a computer?
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
The key change is connectivity: personal computers became much more interesting when they got plugged into the internet. So this (EDGE and other $G technologies) would change Newton II prospects favorably compared to Newton. I just hope they do not implement handwriting recognition: computers are not notepads, just put an on-screen keyboard in there.
It would be very cool if they did make a "Newton II" type device. I would buy it. However, at this point in time I would expect much more...
I would expect: A full featured MacOS X laptop, sans keyboard & CD drive - tablet factor, but small. Basically I would expect an "iPhone like" device the size of the Newton message pad 120 - but thin like the iPhone with a full surface screen, and with handwriting & speech recognition in addition to the on-screen keyboard and multi-touch.
I would need to plug in Ethernet, DVI/VGA, USB, audio i/o, and other standard laptop connections (WiFi too!). The connections could easily be accomodated with an iPod/iPhone like dock connector on the unit to which you'd attach a multi breakout cable.
Basically the smallest Mac ever, that could be used as a PDA on the go, and a standard computer back at home or the office by plugging in a breakout cable. That would be cool! (And it would have to sell for under $1000.)
Is the summary claiming that the iPhone is successful? Perhaps it was successful from an immediate financial standpoint, but from a tech standpoint, the iPhone is a steaming pile of turd.
In my (non expert, economically) opinion, it was unsuccessful financially too. The iPhone rode the wake of the iPod. Apple could have launched an expensive piece of crap (which they did), and people would buy it. Now, the next device that Apple launches, fanboys will only remember the iPhone, and might steer clear.
Read this now, before I get modded down by the apple fanboys.
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
The late lamented Sony UX-50 Palm-based PDA of several years ago was (and I'll go out on a limb here) the finest PDA that *will have ever been built*. A usable thumb keyboard, WiFi, BlueTooth, still camera, video, audio record and playback, removable storage, and a fairly active Palm-based third-party app base. It worked well with my Macs and Windows. And it was pretty darn small. Its few drawbacks mostly were related not to its technology (which was amazing for three or four years ago and still solid now) but mostly related to Sony's hoogizzashit attitude toward cool products (release them, hype them, and in two years deny you ever sold them -- this goes back at least 20 years).
Sony could have leveraged that platform to own what we now call "UMPCs" but the current UX is overpriced, overloaded (with a Redmond operating system) and just not sized right. I adored just about everything about the hardware on my UX50, to the point where when my first was stolen off my desk at work, I went and got another immediately. No, it wasn't a phone, but it sported BT and I had a pretty good EDGE BT-capable phone.
My HTC Wizard may be a phone, and have a usable keyboard, WiFi and BT, but it isn't even in the same league.
---------------------------------------
Rotate the pod, please, HAL....
A modern version of the Philips Velo would be my desire.
http://the-gadgeteer.com/review/philips_velo_500_hpc_review Still use mine for the occasional serial console into a sun machine.
Nothing like it on the market today in terms of screen size, keyboard, apps (WinCE) and ruggedness.
Take a palm tx, mush in a Zune, a larger sceen, some decent apps, expandability.
The so called smart phones only seem to be about sucking people into to extra fees from the providers.
Saw a couple things from hp and nokia but they seem to be lacking pda applications.
- Gronk!
Touch is coming to the Mac. Look at the glass on the new iMac, that thing is touchscreen ready.
It has nothing to do with the Newton, though. There will be no stylus and no handwriting and no soups. This is just the evolution of the mouse.
Once you use an iPhone or iPod touch for a while you want to touch the Mac's screen, you want to scroll Web pages with a flick. When I make a Web page now I can't wait to see it on my iPhone so I can touch it, move it around. Even a graphics tablet doesn't feel as intimate and real.
Also, the error correction on the iPhone is amazing. On a large screen you will be able to touch small targets.
Look at the knobs and sliders in Logic and Final Cut, they are begging for touch. DJ's are begging for touch.
I cried when they took them off the market. I hoped it would be a temporary thing. I prayed they were shelving it only to bring it back even more insanely awesomer. I lost hope, gave in to Danger, and now rarely even dream of PDAs anymore.
I'm still waiting for something as feature rich as the Newton. Palm never appealed to me because I didn't want to learn Graffiti; I'd gotten spoiled on handwriting recognition that recognized my handwriting. Tablets are too big.
The only thing I've owned since that's PDA-like was a SideKick II phone/device. While that was cool for reading email and light websurfing, I viewed it more as a phone-plus rather than a PDA, and it is not nearly as open of a platform. After going through 3 of them in a year (2 under warranty, 1 my bad), I went back to a 'normal' cheap-o cell phone.
I've played around with Treos, Windows Mobile devices, and blackberries, but none of these really enraptured me like the first time I played with a Newton. It fits the form factor of a small paper notepad. You can write on it. You can draw on it. You can record or playback sound. You can look up a phone number in your address book, hold your phone up, and have the Newton dial the number. You can even turn it into a cell phone with a PCMCIA GSM phone card.
I can't believe this technology has been dead for almost a decade now. Please bring it back. Please.
...or something better...
thanks.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV...
I don't think you had to hack the Newton and then worry every time there was an update in order to install apps on it.
Very true. Isn't the Newton quite dead? That's not a very good role model for an argument.
I hate to tell you, but the average customer, even Apple's average customer, isn't going to deal with hacking their PDA just so they can install solitaire on it.
Now you've hit upon why the current solution is not as much of a problem as people make it out to be - the average users is fine with the iPhone as is! You don't sell a million phones based on the ability to hack a device later - for those kinds of numbers to are selling to a huge percentage of people that bought the phone, to use as-is!!
Meanwhile for the more technically inclined, there are options that are also technical in nature to use but that's OK because we understand the risks and rewards involved. We're all smart enough to know if we hacked a phone, we should wait to update until the newest firmware has been cracked. And as a reward we get a rich world of applications.
This is simply how the world is, and will be... those technically inclined in the coming decades will be able to work great wonders upon things they own, that other owners will not be able to avail themselves of. Unfair but then anyone can become technically proficient if they care enugh.
The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, much ado about nothing that matters to almost everyone who has an iPhone except those looking to expand it beyond.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
When I first saw the iPod Touch on the news the first thought I had was "finally I can update my PDA!".
All it needs is to be open enough that people can develop programs for it. It doesn't need to be too complex, look at a lot of the cool apps for the Palm Pilot... and synchronize a datebook, notes, and contacts.
Sadly, I'm still stuck with my old black and white (hah, black and green) Handspring Visor Deluxe since it just works and it refuses to die.
I would like to see a apple tablet in slate form, although convertible would be pretty cool too, but I like slates to write on, like the motion computing m1300 I currently own. I haven't seen a lot use a umpc its like the cross between a pda and a tablet, but good at neither imo.
If it does web and email, it has to go out and get connectivity from somewhere. If it uses one of the cellular networks, it might as well be a phone.
If it is just going to use wi-fi, though, it sounds like the new iPod Touch might be pretty close right now.
Do you think Apple cares if DRM was broken in Itunes? The only reason it was there was to appease the record companies.
Yeah, it's just a convenient side-effect that it also happens to be in Apple's favour to keep their songs encrypted with a method that is covered by both DMCA and Patent laws in it's primary market. Apple's benevolent overseer may claim publicly to want to do away with DRM, but the truth is that it benefits Apple to have their store inaccessible to competitors, for now.
The CEO of Apple was sending a message to competitors as well as customers when he denounced DRM, saying "Bring it on, bitches. We're ready for a market without DRM!".
But you can bet that they will be trying to tie the iPod tighter than ever to iTunes (the application) from now on, besides clinging on to DRM for as long as they can while denouncing it publicly. They want the iTunes + iTunes Store + iPod combo to be a deciding factor for the iPod, so they'll want to try to prevent competitors accessing their devices and store in other ways. Conversely they're also going to be trying to encompass every possible DRM free format there is to be compatible with competing content sources.
I tend to agree with you with regards to the drive space, and we are not alone. This is a complaint I have heard many times before. I am not sure if it was a technical reason, but the drive space being a HUGE step down compared to ipod video etc was a deal breaker for me with regards to the touch, especially as it is touted as a video device. I am also not crazy about totally locked products either, I run Mac OS X on a few machines here and there are lots of nice software development houses out there who would probably develop very useful applications for such a device. I understand security concerns , but I have not had this sort of trouble with Mac OS X, so I have to wonder if its just being used an excuse to lock the system and provide only Apple and certain developers the opportunity to develop and profit from it beyond Apples initial sale of the device. The bottom line is if this attitude of locking stuff and limiting the hardware makes enough people not buy the thing. Not good for a company to have nice DRM and save money on drive costs but not actually sell much product because of these negatives. There is a limit to how many negatives a customer will accept. I *thought* Apple learned this lesson a while back, and I don't pretend to know all the research they do. They may be trying to walk a thin line here. It's sort of shame as I hate to see companies screw up (even Microsoft) as ultimately its not the customers or even the executives who suffer but the engineers and other employees who end up getting laid off!
Write on it.
...And I don't mean write a note with a thumb-sized on screen keyboard. I mean with a stylus.
Draw a picture on it.
Now install one of a million different free add-ons for it.
Use it as an infrared remote control for your television.
Write your own little program on it in BASIC or LUA.
If you can't do those things, it's not a PDA... It's just a glorified phone.
See I'd really like something midway between the iPhone and the iPod touch - I'm not keen on an epic contract to use the iPhone and the lack of things like 3G is a deal-breaker for me (yes I *know* about the battery life implications and I *know* in the US you don't have much 3G coverage and lots of free wireless but I'm a Brit and we have different needs here :) ) but I really like the interface and software.
The iPod touch on the other hand is pretty cool, but even more cut-down software-wise and with less connectivity options (lack of bluetooth).
Give me an iPod touch that can has wireless and can Bluetooth to a cellphone for connectivity, the Multitouch interface and iPhone OS and I'd be *very* tempted. Especially if the screen was bigger (rumor I read suggested 1.5x the size)and even more especially if this wasn't locked down as tight and allowed 3rd part applications.
Basically an Apple version of the Nokia N800 I guess.
Shame I can't see it ever happening.
Wait--more than $500 is affordable?!
Nah. I've already got a device that fits in my pocket -- a Palm Tungsten E -- and one of the primary problems with it is that it's too small. A Newton-sized device, preferably with a screen that covered the whole surface and a high-res Wacom-style digitizer*, would be perfect.
(*Unfortunately, Apple's current "multi-touch" direction seems to make it unlikely that they'd ship a product with a proper stylus. That really sucks, 'cause some of us would like to actually write on our screen, rather than poke at it.)
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Styluses are fine. The problem is the crappy, low-resolution touchscreens PDAs use. If a PDA used a Wacom-style digitizer for smooth (subpixel) writing, it would be much better. Of course, it would also be better if the PDA's screen was larger too, so you could write more than one word without running out of room. And "multitouch" is right out -- how are you supposed to write with it?!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I don't think so. If anyone then Apple sees that the PDA market is all but dead. Everyone I know who used to have a PDA has switched to a smartphone. Apple already has a very good competitor on that market, the iPhone. Why would they try to break into a declining market?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
- An OS X 'lite', with the UNIX backbone, iPhone UI, touch screen, etc.
- Safari, Mail, iCal, iTunes, Google Maps, all that stuff
- A webcam and mic just like the MacBooks, maybe located where the earpiece on the iPhone is
- WiFi and Bluetooth (obv.)
But the selling point, and one that they would be able to hype heavily (gotta have that), would be...- Skype (!) - text, voice and video chat with the option of adding phone integration through SkypeIn and SkypeOut. They already have a deal with Google for their Maps so I don't see why they couldn't strike a deal with eBay and preinstall Skype as the communication vehicle of choice.
Skype users would buy it, Apple users would buy it, non-iPhone users would buy it and would see it as a good (hopefully cheaper, definitely so in the long run) version of the iPhone, and a lot of clueless people would hear about Skype for the first time and dig the Videophone capabilities.It is unfortunate that this kind of device would certainly have weaker storage capabilities than my current 30-gig iPod Photo, which is what's keeping me from buying a new one in the near future. I don't really need the iPod Video without the full screen...
Everyone I know who used to have a PDA has switched to a smartphone.
A smartphone *IS* a PDA. The "PDA market" and the "smartphone market" are the same bloody market.
And, no, not everyone has switched to a PDA-phone. Phones are fragile, have no battery life to speak of, and in the US they're tied to a carrier.
Apple already has a very good competitor on that market, the iPhone.
The iPhone isn't a smartphone, because it's not programmable. No, web apps don't bloody count.
The only real difference between Type I and the new type iI is the lack of apps, which will be overcome using the web SDKs that are supported.
Safari is NOT the Newton scroll, and web apps are no replacement for local apps and local databases.
I've had a Newton, Palm, Pocket PC (phone even), and Palm again, and while Pocket IE was a killer app (and could do everything that Safari on the iPhone can do, even if you didn't want to lick the screen) I went back to two devices because having a lot of reliable applications on my Palm completely trumped the web. I've got way better battery life, too... my phone has to be plugged in nightly and NOT having a second charge kit for the office is foolish... while my Visor Deluxe could get 24 hours *use time* out of a pair of AAs, or getting on for a month standby, and even my Clie can be used pretty much continuously for a couple of days without charging it.
The Newton would have had to get that kind of battery life too, if it had survived, for me to stick to it.
And that kind of size.
Give me a device as small as my Clie that's got enough battery to use as a notepad and reference all day without charging it and without being tethered to a charger, with or without a phone in it... THEN tell me it's the new Newton.
If they split the iPhone CPU so the apps couldn't step into and screw with the software radio, and released a dev kit, then the iPhone/iTouch would actually be a PDA/smartphone (being a PDA as well as a phone is what MAKES a phone a smartphone). Then you could talk about it being a "Newton II". Except you wouldn't, any more than you'd call a laptop an "Osborne II". The name's a jinx.
The development kit would be another profile for XCode, and you'd be able to create 3-way universal applications just by using the NIB editor to lay out a NIB for the iPhone to use... they already have all the rest of the technology in place.
If they do that, then it becomes something I might be interested in buying. Anything less, particularly anything with an API that's anything less than this, no matter what they call it... meh.
The Newton was the PDA equivalent of the Lisa. Great concept, but too expensive. I don't think that we'll see the return of the Newton as a PDA--PDA's are dying and being replaced by smartphones, and Apple already has that niche occupied with the iPhone.
But the big gap in Apple's product line is a notebook/tablet computer. So I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple resurrect the Newton name for a product of this nature. I'd imagine that it would be a Mac, rather than a locked product like the iPhone, but incorporate the iPhone's touch interface.
The Newton is still the best PDA to have come out. It was too high tech, too soon, and too expensive. But coupled with the iPhone, if it has all of the old Newton capabilities, at modern handheld speeds, it would be spectacular. And my Treo 650 is showing its age.
If they left the speaker and mic in and put a card slot in like the Newton wireless carriers could write drivers for it and sell their wireless internet cards for them enabling someone to use this iNewt or whatever as a cell phone. There could also be bluetooth options and maybe USB, I think it'd be smart to have a USB port in a PDA like device.
You don't write with multitouch... you type.
Better resolution might help with styluses. Most people I know who used PDAs ended up using their fingernails a lot because it's a pain to dig out the stylus just to check your next appointment.
Well, at least there's no handwriting doohickey in the iPhone, which aside from price, points up seems to me the fatal flaw of devices smaller than your laptop: what do you do about a keyboard? At the moment, folks, there's no completely successful way to input text into a small device. You can put a small keyboard underneath the screen, but that limits the size of the screen. You can have a slide-out keyboard, but that makes the device much bigger and unwieldy, but it's still not full-size. Then you can virtualize the keyboard, like Apple has. But that's not physical. However, it leaves you with the whole front surface being a screen. I'm not a fast typer, but I can do 70 wpm in spurts on a keyboard. Not on any portable device, of course.
So that leaves the touch interface. Good for doing a limited number of things, but not for running general applications.
Second question: who wants to do Excel spreadsheets on a portable device? Nobody who isn't a masochist/nerd. How about ripping a DVD? Nope. Transcoding video? God, no. The point is, aside from games for amusement on buses and trains and planes, who wants a portable device too small for a viable keyboard to possess any serious computing power? My answer is, nobody. You want to do some serious stuff, take your laptop. You want to phone, catch you e-mail, watch short videos and so on, it's an iPhone.
Sure, there's an appeal. It's the nerd's answer to the Dick Tracy two-way wrist radio. "On my wrist, you foolish musclebound athlete, is enough computing power to vaporize you!" Make something remotely like that, and you've got the 2% nerd market. Too small. Way too expensive to make a to-do list. Ever heard of a notepad?
To really go anywhere as a computer, a mini-device would need to be a complete network device. The network would have to be very high speed and totally pervasive, and it could control a remote computer in the cloud to compensate for its anemic processor, or have either handwriting or speech recognition flawlessly implemented so you can control it easily with no keyboard -- good look with that -- or it would have to slowly develop, step-by-step, into a unique device that would be a phone, an e-mail reader, web and news browser, and ultimately, maybe a real Dick-Tracy device: a two-way wrist television. Sounds like the iPhone II.
Yes, and Apple just killed them all
Wrong, they killed the mechanism for LOADING the applications on the device. And Apple did not do that BECAUSE they wanted to kill off app access, they did it to close the security holes used by the app loader.
But someone will find another way in, and people will use that to re-load the same apps. That's exactly how hacking works, if you have any desire to stay current with officel product updates (some do not, note the messages from people not updating). For a technical user that is a perfectly reasonable approach to take if you wish to have extended abilities for your device.
Stopp attacking what you don't understand.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Of course we would. Ask all iPhone and iPod touch owners, they already have one.
It's just that the software isn't all done yet.
For several reasons:
1. They'll HAVE to release an ultraportable. People have been waiting for it for too long.
2. They'd need a state of the art handwriting recognition system. Microsoft has one (in Tablet), but quite obviously licensing it is out of the question. Apple can't create one on their own, since they've disbanded their Advanced Technology Group (research) a decade ago. And you need PhDs to work on machine learning.
3. Why would I want a PDA if I already have an iPhone and MacBook Pro?
If they're stupid enough to release it (with InkWell), it'll be a market flop second only to AppleTV.
Like a computer?
yes. A computer that can fit in my pocket. Also known as a "PDA."
Yes.
I like using the laptops. No problem with that. But with the slow advent of wi-fi, WiMax, etc, there are going to be plenty of opportunities to be 'out' and not have any desire, per se, to do 'work' which uses the wireless hotspots, but really appreciate being able to interact with those times when a brief access to files or the Web would be very handy.
I know when I am going outdoors if I am targeting a Starbucks, or whatever, to do real work. It's all those other times that I refer to when I think of the ability to opportunistically react to a notion or whatever.
Something in between the Blackberry and a laptop... sounds like a killer hardware whose time might have come. Again. Sort of. :)
I'm not sure how you missed the latest iPhone update that trashes said 3rd party apps.
Since it asks if you want to install it before it updates the phone (or will never ask if you have update notification disabled) you'd pretty much have to be a moron to install the Apple software update when you are rolling your own. Do you even know what "hacking" means?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
> All [iPod Touch] needs is to be open enough that people can develop programs for it.
There is a Web 2.0 browser in there. All the PDA stuff has long ago been done on the Web. You can install Wikipedia by typing "wikipedia.org" into Safari on the iPod and bookmarking it. Or if it's already bookmarked on your computer it will sync over to the iPod and all you have to do is click on it. You can run Slashdot on the iPod, the full Slashdot with all of the features running and with typography also, unlike on the majority of computers. The PHP Manual is on the iPod already, a link away. That is so much better to have than being able to install a card game.
With W3C Web 2.0 and ISO MPEG-4 H.264/AAC and iPod dock connector it is a really nice pocket platform. Apple will also fill up the screen with really awesome features over the next couple of years and when the accessories catch up to the iPhone/iPod touch that should be a lot of fun.
But if you need it to be "open enough that people can develop programs for it" then you want the Handspring Visor Deluxe of course, without question.
I own a 100 (the first version) and a 2100 (the last version). While both are fascinating products, it's the difference between night and day. One is something you can impress your friends with. The other is a truly useful device which actually works the way it should. I used to take notes on my 2100 back when I was studying computer science. It's a great device that is even today far ahead of everything else in the same space of products, and one can only guess at where it would be had Apple continued its development to this day.
The iPod touch?
While it's not a replacement for native apps, it should be pointed out that stuff like Google Calendar or GMail works perfectly fine on an iPod touch. Google Calendar in particular means you don't really need the built-in calendar - as long as you have web access.
Uh. Customer satisfaction on the iPhone is the highest Apple has ever measured. The iPhone isn't a steaming pile of turd; in fact, people love it. Even the most staunch Apple haters mellow when they play with my iPhone and get excited zooming in and out of pictures or scrolling through music in cover flow.
I think your prejudices are clouding your judgement.
Yes, I realize that there's a full web browser in there... but it's just not the same. In fact, the times when I use my PDA the most are when I'm furthest from a computer and Internet access.
Heck, I had trouble making a (GSM) phone-call in the mall this weekend!
Some things are better run locally.
I'd like Apple to support third party apps as well. But pretending other solutions do not exist does not make that happen any sooner - or later. The fact is that the iphone has third party apps. Someday they may even be "blessed" enugh to run without hacks, but until that day the real limitation is your fear, not Apple.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why wouldn't it have a stylus?
As i understand the technology used in the current screens/touchs wheels is that it requires the conductivity direct human contact for it to work. But there are ski gloves on the market that provide an electrical conductivity between the finger and wheel so you can use your iPod in the freezing cold with fingers staying toasty and warm.
So why couldn't a stylus use the same conductivity?
If so the screen could then tell the difference between figure and stylus seemlessly by the size of the pressure point and the OS react accordingly. Indeed if you could make a conductive rubber or flexible stylus those conductivity was effected by pressure then the OS could add support for pen weight as well.
"Call us when the New age is old enough to drink" Beck
I won't buy a digital organizing device until I can talk to it, with a record button held down, and have it create my appointments based on what I said. "Remember to pickup John from the airport at five pm", "Remind me to call home every tuesday at noon".
The processing doesn't have to be very sophisticated, because it doesn't need to understand the message part... only the time part. "Remember to" or "Remind me to" is an optional intro phrase it can ignore. "pickup John from the airport" and "call home" are the content, and would be played back verbatim when the alarm activated. The hard part would be processing a wide variety of time info. "every Tuesday at noon", "at five pm", etc.
It doesn't even need to process it fast. I can take the recording, then mull it over for half a minute or so, so it doesn't need a fast CPU.
Until I have a PDA that can do that, I don't want a PDA.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
I want an affordable (>$500 2007 dollars), multi-purpose (music / web / email / ebook / addresses), computing device, that isn't tied to being a cell phone.
Consumers don't want Windows Mobile, and they don't want Palm OS Hacket, but they do want PDAs. Otherwise, hacking the iPhone and the iPod wouldn't even be an issue. My sentiment exactly.
What I want, instead of my Palm T3 + (crummy) mobile phone, is a Psion Series 5mx, with modern comms (bluetooth+wifi+usb) and perhaps a camera, in a Psion Revo size-and-weight package.
You can still find 5mx'es, but with serial comms they *are* a bit behind the times.
"Good news, everyone!"