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Adding Capsaicin Improves Anesthetic Treatment

Posted by samzenpus on from the so-hot-it's-numb dept.

eldavojohn writes "It's no secret what capsaicin, the fiery molecule of peppers, does to cell walls. In fact, it's now being used to open cells up to local anesthetics. Combine it with a new drug that works only from the insides of cells and you have a great system for relieving pain. From the article, 'QX-314 is known to reduce the activity of pain-sensing neurons in the nervous system and theoretically heighten pain thresholds. But there's a catch: Researchers found that "it wouldn't work from outside a nerve cell but it would work if you could get it inside," says Bruce Bean, a professor of neurobiology at Harvard Medical School and co-author of the new study."

41 of 151 comments (clear)

  1. Just a thought... by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...but wouldn't that burn like hell?

    --
    The game.
    1. Re:Just a thought... by wamerocity · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I actually was reading an article about capsaicin (which is also the active ingredient in pepper spray, hence the name). One doctor once recommended that oxycontin and other opiates should have capsaicin put into the pills. People who swallowed it wouldn't taste anything different, but people who take the drugs and chop them up into a powder and then snort it have a really special surprise in store for them, similar to what this guy did with wasabi.

      I'd guess people would only make that mistake once though.

      --
      "Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
    2. Re:Just a thought... by wamerocity · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not to be a dick or anything, but it IS the active ingredient in peppers. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin, I quote "Capsaicin /kæpse.sn/ (8-methyl-N-vanillyl-6-nonenamide) is the active component of chilli,(sic) peppers, which are plants belonging to the genus Capsicum. It is an irritant for mammals, including humans, and produces a sensation of burning in any tissue with which it comes into contact"

      --
      "Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
    3. Re:Just a thought... by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A similar thought occurred to me when I read ths summary.

      Although I took it a bit further into the apparent repetition of certain features in nature. For example, when I grew up we had jumping ants with a really nasty sting that always lived near a plant which was a perfect anditote to the sting, and stinging trees always lived near their antidote, etc.

      I digress. The initial thought was that cloves make a good local anesthetic for dental problems, but they burn like hell when you first chew them until the anesthetic kicks in. I'm wondering whether the mechanism that creates the burning sensation is similar to the burning of chili and whether they too open cell walls? Anyone have any insight into this?

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    4. Re:Just a thought... by martinX · · Score: 4, Informative

      Could be a difference in common names here...

      In Australia, these things are called Capsicums (no, no-one calls them Capsica :-) ) We reserve the word "pepper" exclusively for that stuff made from peppercorns. Chillis are chillis, not chilli peppers.

      Capsicums in the US are called, I believe, bell peppers.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    5. Re:Just a thought... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Informative
      Not to be a dick or anything, but it IS the active ingredient in peppers.

      It's a language problem.

      Outside the US, capsicums and chillies aren't called "peppers". Interestingly though, the piperine which makes real pepper (the spice) taste hot works on the TRPV ion channel in the same way as capsaicum, so it might have a similar effect.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    6. Re:Just a thought... by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Bell Peppers are actually the only chilli peppers that do NOT contain capsaicin.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    7. Re:Just a thought... by TheDugong · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Outside the US, capsicums and chillies aren't called "peppers"."

      I have only heard capsicums them called capsicums in English speaking countries in the South Pacific. Capsicums are certainly called green/red/yellow peppers in the UK. Arguably, we (Australia) and NZ are the odd ones out.

      Peppers I will agree with though.

    8. Re:Just a thought... by justin12345 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds like a plan... except for one thing. Capsaicin come out just as hot as it goes in. Add to that the constipation that opiates cause and you are talking about an excruciating bowel movement.

      --
      Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
    9. Re:Just a thought... by ChameleonDave · · Score: 4, Informative

      Outside the US, capsicums and chillies aren't called "peppers".

      Nonsense. Don't confuse Australia with "outside the US". Australia is strange in reserving the word "pepper" for actual Piper nigrum. The UK, for example, is just like the US in that "pepper" is used to refer to the fruit of the Capsicum genus native to Mexico. The hot varieties are called "chillis" or "chilli peppers", and the mild varieties are known as "green peppers", "yellow peppers" or "red peppers" according to their colour; the generic term is "sweet peppers". Piper nigrum is known as "black pepper" or "white pepper" according to its colour.

      There is never any ambiguity even when a colour is not mentioned, as the word is used as a mass noun to refer to Piper nigrum and a count noun to refer to Capsicum, i.e. "I like pepper" means one thing and "I like peppers" means another.

      The recycling of the word "pepper" is not even peculiar to English: the word for Capsicum is many languages is just a minor variation on the word for Piper nigrum. Here are the respective words for pepper, sweet peppers, and chilli in some languages. French: poivre, poivron, piment/chili. Spanish: pimienta, pimiento, chile/ají. Italian: pepe, peperone, peperoncino.

      Strangely, Australians will use the word "peppers" to refer to Capsicum if they are roasted. I believe this is under foreign influence. They do, however, stubbornly make sure that pepper spray (containing capsaicin) is always referred to as "capsicum spray".

      Aussies tend to think that their usage is more exact than UK/US usage, in that they do not extend the old-world term "pepper" to cover the new-world fruit, but what they usually don't realise is that to botanists "Capsicum" includes the fiery fruits which Aussies always call "chillis", and never "capsicum".

      One final bit of trivia: Australians virtually always mispronounce it "capsicun", although they are rarely aware of it.

      — A Brit in Oz

    10. Re:Just a thought... by adatepej · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Brilliant idea. "Let's turn our pharmaceuticals into weapons in the war on drugs."

      Why do I have to unnecessarily swallow capsaicin everytime I take a pill? Oh, so we can make somebody else's nose sting.

      That'll put a big dent in drug use.

    11. Re:Just a thought... by adatepej · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, those "addicts" out there will do a bit for their drug of choice, but they're not going to snort some sadistically formulated pill, if that's what you're thinking.

      They're just going to take whatever other prescription opiate is most available at the time. And others will just find a way around capsaicin and any other measure devised by those who'd waste their talents devising ways of preventing other people from taking pills of their own volition.

      It's a war that can't be won, nor does it deserve to be. It's wrong-headed and truly hateful towards freedom.

    12. Re:Just a thought... by linzeal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I believe they do have the genes for it though. My friend grew some that actually had some bite.

      --
      An Education is the Font of All Liberty
    13. Re:Just a thought... by KKlaus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uh... isn't that a violation of the Hippocratic oath? And thank god booby trapping is still considered shameful and unamerican. Sheesh.

      --
      Relax I just want some peanuts.
    14. Re:Just a thought... by packeteer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Piper nigrum does come in green and red varieties although this is always called "green peppercorn" and "red peppercorn" in the USA anyway.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    15. Re:Just a thought... by zeromorph · · Score: 2

      Black Pepper (or White Pepper) I guess, except in a China restaurant, where you would probably call it Sichuan Pepper, which again is a very different plant. And on some occasions you'll have Cayenne Pepper , which in turn is made from a kind of chili, and thus is also called chili pepper.

      Actually, pepper just means "that hot stuff on the table and/or food" and is not very helpful, when talking about plant species.

      --
      "Hannibal's plans never work right. They just work." Amy/A-Team
    16. Re:Just a thought... by Stickerboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh... isn't that a violation of the Hippocratic oath? And thank god booby trapping is still considered shameful and unamerican. Sheesh.

      Not at all. Why do you think Vicodin, Lortab, Percocet etc. contain acetaminophen? It's not for the pain relief - the opiates do a hell of a job for that. It's to give the drugs a maximum a person can take per time period before they deplete their glutathione and fry their liver.

      Some opiate seekers understand this but OD on them anyways.

      --
      Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    17. Re:Just a thought... by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Funny

      i.e. "I like pepper" means one thing and "I like peppers" means another.


      Ahh, but what if your dog is called peppers? Where does that leave you? Eh? EH?? ;)
    18. Re:Just a thought... by vorpal22 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As someone who currently has to take Oxycontin several times a day for pain management due to severe Crohn's Disease, this really would eliminate Oxycontin as a pain relief option for me; I *love love love* chilli peppers (my passion is studying Thai cooking), but when I'm flaring, there is no way that my body can tolerate them even in small quantities and they will make me violently ill. My intestines would resemble a minefield and I would have to camp out next to the bathroom, as the capsaicin would negate the pleasant, constipating side effect of the oxycodone (a huge boon for me).

      There has also been a lot of talk in putting opioid antagonists in Oxycontin (i.e. naloxone or naltrexone) to negate the oxycodone's effects when people chew / smash the pills, but there are also inherent problems with this approach (it can induce immediate drug withdrawal in those with dependency, e.g. me).

      I would be very surprised if there was a good chemical solution to this problem that didn't come with a host of problems of its own.

    19. Re:Just a thought... by MttJocy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can just see people crushing them up and putting them into a gel cap or something, would still defeat the time release mechanism if any in the tablet and opioid are generally plenty active enough orally (granted not as quick to take effect as insufflation but would still work).

      When will those coming up with all these ideas lean that nothing is going to stop people who willingly choose to enjoy drugs, every method they have come up with has ultimately been defeated in time, from messing with the pharmaceuticals by the addition of more toxic drugs (Acetaminophen etc, which is in fact not such a great idea for chronic use either, like for example in a patient with long term pain) which can be removed by something as simple as a cold water extraction

      Mind you, they can always rely on modern philosophy of prohibition, that worked so well the first time right? and unsurprisingly works just a badly this time round. How ridiculous is it to have a law which creates crime across areas well beyond the scope of the law itself from burglary to murder, all in an attempt to stop a few people choosing a drug which doesn't fit a ridiculous narrow view of what is "acceptable" or are considered "dangerous" like alcohol and tobacco don't kill people. The idiocy would be funny if the effects were not so devastating on the economy and society in general.

  2. Cell walls? by Atmchicago · · Score: 5, Informative

    Mammalian cells have no cell walls. Do they mean plasma membrane? This is basic biology, guys, please get your facts straight.

    --

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.

    1. Re:Cell walls? by sam_handelman · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's-a-spicy pain-a-pill.

        Seriously, mod parent up.

      --
      The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
    2. Re:Cell walls? by ragingmime · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's no secret what capsaicin, the fiery molecule of peppers, does to cell walls.

      Actually, I've studied cell biology and I have no idea what capscaicin does to cell walls (or even plasma membranes.) Come to think of it, chili pepper cells have walls, and capsaicin doesn't seem do anything to them. So maybe it is a secret after all.

      --
      I produce electronic music and write little games. Have a look.
    3. Re:Cell walls? by wizardforce · · Score: 4, Informative

      correct, the plasma membrane is studded with a number of receptors, ion channels and signalling compounds- this in particular seems to use capsacian as a "key" to allow the second compound through so that it can work. the plasma membrane being semipermeable as it is, does act somewhat like a wall- a barrier that maintains a chemical gradient/controlled intracellular environment. an all too common mistake on their part.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    4. Re:Cell walls? by csubi · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not a secret - capsaicin opens the Vanilloid Receptor 1, also known as TRPV1, when binding. So it does "open up" the cell membrane but these openings are quite specific and small, the open VR1 will mostly let through hydrated Ca2+ ions.
      And not all cells express the VR1 - it is mostly nerve cells responsible for transmitting signals for inflammatory and neuropathic pain and epithelial cells like the skin lining our mouths.
      Unlucky for those who like to feel their mouth burn when eating a good chili con carne(like me), the receptor is also expressed in the cells of the anal region - hence the burning feeling in the butt, when going to crap 1-2 days after eating the hot dish...:)
      Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRPV1

  3. Terrible Write Up by headhot · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well the Write Up didn't make any sense so I read the link. Here is the deal.
    1. QX-314 block pain neurons. It doesnt block other neurons for heat, pressure, ect.
    2. QX-314 only works if you can get it inside the neuron cell itself.
    3. Capsaicin opens a channel on only pain neurons that will let QX-314 through.

    So, using Capsaicin and QX-314 together, you can block pain but no other senses.

    1. Re:Terrible Write Up by FlatCatInASlatVat · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Close, but not quite:

      1. QX-314 blocks all neurons.
      2. QX-314 only works if you can get it inside the neuron cell itself.
      3. Capsaicin opens a channel on only pain neurons that will let QX-314 through.

    2. Re:Terrible Write Up by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Any way you slice it, this is bad news for masochists.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  4. just turn on primetime by User+956 · · Score: 3, Funny

    From the article, 'QX-314 is known to reduce the activity of pain-sensing neurons in the nervous system and theoretically heighten pain thresholds.

    Ah, yes, much like watching American Idol.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
  5. There's a much easier way to get this effect... by anandamide · · Score: 3, Funny

    Thai Food and Beer.

  6. Icy Hot-n-blazin' sauce by jacobcaz · · Score: 3, Funny
    I want to see an anethetic/capiscum hot sauce. So you get a brief busrt of fiery goodness, then soothing numbness follows.

    "Why yes, I will have my buffalo wings in the Icy Hot-n-blazin' sauce please!"

  7. More than just that... by RobertM1968 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It helps metabolize fat, helps with prostrate issues and a bunch of other things as well...

    It can be taken in pill form (for those who dont like eating red hot chili peppers) which is good considering some of its benefits require moderate to large doses.

    When combined with other spices such as garlic and cinnamon, the results in numerous areas are quite good, and quite nice... (adding to the list above better sugar absorption, insulin creation, appetite suppression, thermogenic fat burning without lean muscle mass loss, pain relief, sinusitus relief and a LOT more)

    Interestingly none of this is news... it's ALL ancient news - that the pharmaceutical companie$ dont want people to know... a nice spicy/sweet bowl of chili (made with just a tiny pinch of cinnamon, a bunch of chili powder, and some garlic) each day (or substitute with a different food that those ingredients can be put in from a steak sauce to you name it) and you've eliminated billions of dollars in income for related chemically created products from the pharm companies - and you have also eliminated the side effects.

    --
    StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
    1. Re:More than just that... by teebob21 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Excluding my closet addition to hot wings, I've been enjoying the benefits of capsicum for a few years now. I make a tincture of capsicum very similar to this one, listed in the 1918 USP Dispensary.

      I use 15 fresh habanero peppers and 1 quart of the cheapest 90+ proof vodka I can find. Put them in a mason jar, seal TIGHTLY, and let sit for 4-6 months. Pour off the liquid and discard the peppers (or eat them, I guess, if you're insane). Store the tincture in the freezer. It should remain liquid even at 0 degrees or below due to the alcohol. That is why I use 90+ proof. Administer 1 ounce every few days. You HAVE to shoot it. The vodka should be super cold when you drink it, so the burn from the capsicum is minimized by the temperature and the quick drinking. I always feel a warm heat in my gut after a shot, as the capsicum gets absorbed.

      Don't use this tincture daily or more often, as it can cause serious GI irritation in quantity. Believe me, you do NOT want to vomit the stuff. Just imagine shoving a peeled habanero into your nose/sinuses for an idea of the pleasure. Also, keep away from eyes.

      This is cheaper than buying capsaicin tablets, and more fun, too! Challenge your buddies to a (single) shot of habanero sometime...Enjoy!

      --
      khasim (12/9/06): In a blind taste test, more people preferred Coke over the Pepsi that I had previously pissed in.
    2. Re:More than just that... by teebob21 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not taken for the fun. The alcohol acts as a solvent for the nonpolar capsaicin molecule. Water would not have the same effect. Making an alcohol-based tincture allows for concentrations not possible with water, due to the polar nature of water. It's really not a lot of work: Make it; wait for first batch to finish; drink occasionally; have next batch in the garage waiting. Quite useful for those who dislike curry and other spicy foods, such as myself (...and yet I love hot wings).

      I'll let the debate about alcohol's potential health benefits slide, as there have been fairly conclusive studies for both sides of the argument. Use only in moderation (Are you ready to Tanqueray?) :)

      --
      khasim (12/9/06): In a blind taste test, more people preferred Coke over the Pepsi that I had previously pissed in.
  8. something similar by icegreentea · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I seem to recall a related treatment where capsaicin could be used as a longterm local anesthetic. The doctor would first apply a shortterm anesthetic to the area being treated, and then applying pure capsaicin. The capsaicin would cause all of the nerves in the treated area to fire off like crazy until they burned out, while the local anesthetic would keep you from actually feeling the burn. By the time the local anestehtic wore off (an hour or so???), your nerves arent sending anymore, and wont be sending for quite a while, and the capsaicin gets washed off. repeat as needed.

  9. One person's anesthetic... by Vainglorious+Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...is another person's terrorist attack

    --
    My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
  10. Ok by xx01dk · · Score: 5, Funny

    I promise I'll RTFA, but the first thought that came to mind was "Oh boy! Modern medicine can ease my pain... with FLAMING HOT NUCLEAR CODE RED WING SAUCE" followed by "GOOD LORD I'M NEVER SHITTING AGAIN."

    --
    There is simply too much glass..
  11. Capsaicin is used in arthritis creams by ragingmime · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...such as Zostrix and Dolorac (more info here). It's also an ingredient in Icy Hot and other meds, apparently.

    Sensations of affective (dull) pain and heat are transferred along the same nerves, which is part of the reason why this chemical can help modulate signals there.

    --
    I produce electronic music and write little games. Have a look.
  12. Re:Irritating ??? by Brickwall · · Score: 2, Funny
    The next when I saw him, there was no pretense, he used a few expletives but claimed that in the "after glow" phase he actually had what one might refer to as a religious experience.

    I saw that one! Then Homer met a talking wolf...

    --
    What was once true, is no longer so
  13. And Don't Forget... by FranTaylor · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wash your hands BEFORE you go to the bathroom.

  14. Re-inventing the wheel ? by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Informative

    The combination of capsaicin and a mild topical analgesic (menthol) has been on store shelves for decades, for example under the name of IcyHot.