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Storm Worm Botnet Partitions May Be Up For Sale

Bowling for cents writes "There is evidence that the massive Storm Worm botnet is being broken up into smaller networks, and a ZDNet post thinks that's a surefire sign that the CPU power is up for sale to spammers and denial-of-service attackers. The latest variants of Storm are now using a 40-byte key to encrypt their Overnet/eDonkey peer-to-peer traffic, meaning that each node will only be able to communicate with nodes that use the same key. This effectively allows the Storm author to segment the Storm botnet into smaller networks. This could be a precursor to selling Storm to other spammers, as an end-to-end spam botnet system, complete with fast-flux DNS and hosting capabilities."

192 comments

  1. What is fast flux DNS? by Shimdaddy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Being the n00b that I am, I don't know what fast flux DNS is. I know what DNS is, and I know the meaning of fast... but flux to me is something you put on a pipe before you weld it. What does it mean in this context?

    1. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by Ant+P. · · Score: 5, Informative

      It means the spammers register a bunch of domain names to spam in their emails, and rotate the zombie PC IP they're pointing to every few minutes. Makes it harder to shut down.

    2. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by bobs666 · · Score: 2, Informative
    3. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 3, Informative

      Basically, you set your records to expire in a very, very short time, and constantly change the DNS servers, as well as the records. This makes it very hard to shut down the DNS, since its always moving and changing. I guess a good way to picture it is if at google, every single one of their 1M servers was changing. IE, every 5 seconds, a different machine was the dns server for "Google.com" and the www address changed to a different computer. Then, try to figure out which machine was misbehaving, and displaying the wrong data. It would be difficult.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    4. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by gt_mattex · · Score: 1

      I've read TFA, however it didn't mention if the botnet used single or double flux. Anyone happen to know?

      --
      "No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture." - Learned Hand
    5. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by Wolfrider · · Score: 3, Funny

      Perhaps it utilizes a flux capacitor - and can thus do single OR double, depending on requirements of the moment? ;-)

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    6. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by jmyers · · Score: 1

      why wouldn't you just kill it at the registrar? That seems the only logical place to kill a domain name, DNS shouldn't even matter.

    7. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by shotgunsaint · · Score: 2, Funny

      1.21 Gigabots? Why, the only thing that can generate that kind of current is... the Storm Botnet!

      --
      The future isn't here until I can type "car keys" into Google and have it say "You left them in your pants last night."
    8. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Botnets can be used to generate huge amounts of revenue. That revenue can purchase a lot of domains.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    9. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by asuffield · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Registrars are extremely reluctant to remove domains just because somebody claims that they are part of a botnet. Basically, you need a court order. You'll only get a court order if a judge rules against the botnet operator. You'll only get a ruling if somebody takes the botnet operator to court in a criminal case. That will only happen if a government intervenes.

      No governments are interested in dealing with this problem.

    10. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by WGFELyL5 · · Score: 1

      see the Spam Trackers wiki for a detailed explanation
      http://spamtrackers.eu/wiki/index.php?title=Fast-flux

    11. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by droopycom · · Score: 1

      Still dont get it.

      They rotate the IP, but the name stays the same ? Why cant the registrar just shut them down ?

    12. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by badran · · Score: 0

      We can try to utilize a smellatron to locate it, but I am not sure it would be a viable way of doing this.... Well have to get suited up to get online and kongfu kick some spam...

    13. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what fast flux DNS is.
      Don't worry. A lot of the people replying to you don't seem to know either. Some of the details you were given are correct, but not all of them.

      It is about quickly moving the domain between machines. The easiest way is to have your DNS servers give out changing IPs, which will keep the web serving on the move, but of course the DNS servers themselves will not be moving. You can also change DNS servers for the domain, but that is much more involved. Having different machines be the DNS server is not something you just do.

      Actually changing all the time may be a bad strategy. You could end up revealing all the IPs you control in a short time. It could be a lot harder to take down, if it was kept static until you detected a take down.

      The idea of DNS servers blocking records with low TTL wouldn't work. There are legitimate usages of low TTLs. And the low TTL is not even an absolute requirement when implementing such a scheme. Yes, if your TTL is high, it may be that losing a machine would mean, that customers of one ISP could not access your site. But at another ISP, which does not have this record in cache, they could still access the site. What a filter would really have to detect was the quick change between many IPs - but even that might have legitimate uses.

      Some point out failover to an alternative hosting as a legitimate usage. And that is indeed correct. I challenge those who say that is a bad way to do failover to describe a better solution, that will work if the primary site is down. I bet they can't come up with any. I have had a hard time trying.

      Then somebody said it could legitimately be used for mobile clients. You rarely have a need for such clients to have a hostname that always points to their current IP. And for most usages where you need to be able to find a specific client, you often end up with some different scheme anyway, involving a specialized server which the clients connect to, and that server will do a bit more than just DNS. (Think p2p, IP telephony, VPN, and probably many other).

      As for shutting this kind of thing down at the registar, yes it would be great if you could. But you'd have to prove that the domain is illegitimate, not just that there exist an illegal page on a webserver, which happens to be pointed to by a subdomain.

    14. Re:What is fast flux DNS? by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      Domains are detached from the computers they point to.

      Do something illegal on a computer which a domain points to and the domain registrar cannot shut you down, only the host of the computer can.

      Infringe someone's trademark with a domain however can be grounds for domain deletion.

  2. Three words by archeopterix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Follow the money.

    1. Re:Three words by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      Follow the money.

      Microsoft?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    2. Re:Three words by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

      they're probably already doing that. The CIA is big on that sort of thing. What I wanna know is why instead of trying to catch these losers, someone doesn't just release an antivirus worm. You know a worm that cures the storm infection. They did that for blaster I think.

      --
      Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    3. Re:Three words by Jerinaw · · Score: 1

      Why not go after the people buying these botnets? Or using them. Meaning the people selling stuff. The ads right there. I know who's trying to sell me something. Go after them for using a botnet to sell their product.

    4. Re:Three words by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      You can't be sure the company knows/intended for the advertisement in that manner.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    5. Re:Three words by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      You can when you subpoena their bank records and find the payments.

      You know, police work, etc.

  3. The dude is a playa by WwWonka · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    From the article "Stewart, a reverse engineering guru who has been tracking Storm Worm closely" along with his stunning picture can only mean these spammers are TRULY being tracked diligently between his games of WOW and hourly five minute visits to the pr0n sites that these spammers are promoting themselves!

  4. Survival of the fittest in action by analog_line · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not sure whether to be impressed, depressed, or both.

    These things are getting so insidious and vast in scope, I'm honestly wondering if I can safely believe that any Windows machine I come across with problems ISN'T on Storm or one of the other botnets. At what point does having a multi-use computing device become more of a problem than the benefits it provides? If 90% of what you get for connecting to the Internet is problems, what's the point? Bile spewing bloggers, bought-and-paid news reports and total advertising awareness?

    1. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by cromar · · Score: 1

      I'm extremely impressed. Security has been lax for far too long, and I can't really blame anyone for taking advantage of that.

      Plus, botnets are pretty sweet. I wouldn't mind having one myself, for, you know, distributed compiles or something ;) Or maybe a beowulf cluster of botnets...

    2. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Tpl2000 · · Score: 1

      I vote both...actually, i vote depressed, since impression is often implied by something being new and unusual. Not the case, here.

      --
      Epic. Just epic.
    3. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Security has been lax for far too long, and I can't really blame anyone for taking advantage of that.

      You may not be able to blame anyone. But I can certainly assign blame.

      Is the person/group that designed this botnet talented? Without a doubt. Do they deserve respect? Hell, no.

      If you respect this person, then you would have to also respect the people who put together those televangelist networks and faith-healers. Liars, cheats, and thieves. They deserve no respect.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    4. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Cato · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Here's a small and possibly unrepresentative datapoint from last weekend that would tend to suggest there are a lot of infected PCs out there, some of them with Storm. Basically, 2 of 3 PCs scanned had backdoor trojans and I didn't have time to debug the third PC enough to scan it.

      I spyware scanned three PCs belonging to two friends/family households. Naturally, they were all Windows. I used Webroot Spysweeper which is pretty good but costs, and Kaspersky online scan, which is good but slow, and virus only.

      - PC 1: infected with various spyware and a backdoor trojan (remote access by the bad guys) - had an up to date antivirus (AVG) that didn't spot any of this, but no anti-spyware installed.

      - PC 2 (same network as 1): couldn't even install new software (error on running any new .EXE), ran out of time to debug this so did not install Webroot or any other tools. Also had AVG antivirus, which was up to date, and no anti-spyware. Presumed infected.

      - PC 3: (2nd household) - infected with a different backdoor trojan and several viruses. Had Norton anti-virus that had not updated since 2004.

      I would assume the average Windows PC has a high chance of some sort of infection, unless the users are very careful about installing third party software, some of which carries spyware or worse, and clicking on links in IE. Even Firefox had spyware on one of these machines.

      Windows PCs run by power users (not the users here) can be somewhat secure, but it's painful to make them so. One colleague who's very techie still got infected by a PDF security hole recently, so you need Secunia PSI to run continuously, as well as monitoring some security blogs, and updating software regularly, as well as using a good anti-spyware tool, not using IE/Outlook, etc etc. However, once you are making this much effort, the work needed to install Ubuntu becomes much less of a hurdle - you might as well just switch over one PC so you have a safe PC for online shopping/banking etc.

      The only good thing about this story is that nothing very important was being done on these PCs - little online shopping and no online banking... however, that's the users' self-reported status and they may well not want to admit they are at risk.

      I don't do this for a living, I'm just a Windows and Linux user who wondered why there were so many popups on one of these PCs and ended up getting sucked into this when I should have been socialising - fortunately anti-spyware scans can run during dinner...

    5. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by butterwise · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure whether to be impressed, depressed, or both.
      For those asking about the meaning of "flux" in this context, there's your answer.
      --
      If a baby duck is a "duckling," why would anyone want to eat "dumplings?"
    6. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by rah1420 · · Score: 1

      I'm honestly wondering if I can safely believe that any Windows machine I come across with problems ISN'T on Storm or one of the other botnets. The POS Gateway that I'm trying to disinfect is a classic example of one that I'm sure isn't on a botnet.

      Because, and only because, I refuse to hook it to a network while I'm trying to de-worm it. ;)
      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
    7. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by analog_line · · Score: 1

      Respect is probably something they should have. You respect the man with a gun to our head unless you're blessed with an immunity to bullets, or you don't care about living any longer.

      Admiration, that they shouldn't have.

    8. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by SignupRequired · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, they have my admiration. Storm is an amazing piece of work, and for some reason I like the idea that it took criminals to implement something so genius.

      Hot bitches sucking their cocks on demand is what they don't deserve.

    9. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Hatta · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      At what point does having a multi-use computing device become more of a problem than the benefits it provides?

      When you install windows on it.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by MadUndergrad · · Score: 1

      That's the same attitude my ex had, that when someone has power over you you automatically have to respect them. I think that's a bad use of the word "respect". Respect isn't something that can be forced. It has to be earned. Someone can have enough power over you for you to be willing to obey them, but that doesn't mean you respect them. Respect entails holding someone in high esteem. I certainly wouldn't hold someone with a gun to my head in high esteem, even though I may obey his commands. I could see the storm creator(s) having earned a bit of respect for their skill, but not for their douchebaggery.

    11. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by steveo777 · · Score: 1
      I do a lot of spyware/trojan removal in my spare time. Mostly for family, friends, or acquaintances with an extra $50. Every computer I've seen with an up to date Norton, McAffee, or any other 'major name' anti-virus is just chalk-full of trojans and spyware. Way over the FDA recommended amounts. I usually run Spybot once to clear out the easy stuff, and then go registry hunting with HiJackThis and a few other tools.

      It is my non-expert (I am not certified to say this) opinion that there is no antivirus program or suite that does... anything. The most a user will get out of these is a lot of processor time removed and warnings when they open email. Spybot and some due-diligence is all that is needed to run a clean Windows distro. Unfortunately normal users have no idea what that means, and Norton and McAffee will continue to collect gobs of money for almost nothing. I might actually use them if they didn't need half my system resources just to idle.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    12. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Xeriar · · Score: 1

      AV Comparatives does not give AVG very good marks, and my experience has reinforced this. NOD32 and AntiVir are the best out there by their results. AntiVir is free for personal use and they both perform on par with Norton without bringing systems to a crawl.

      Oddly, I haven't seen many truly serious rootkits. Most of them have been on pre-SP2 XP machines, which are (thankfully) becoming rarer.

    13. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by dave562 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It is my non-expert (I am not certified to say this) opinion that there is no antivirus program or suite that does... anything.

      FWIW & YMMV, I setup my family and acquaintances with XP-SP2, IE7, Windows Defender and the latest version of SAV Corporate/Enterprise in Unmanaged mode. I just turn on Automatic Updates in Windows and setup the AV software to update every night. My biggest "problem user" is a girl whose laptop was completely owned by spyware when I first met her. After a pave and rebuild with the above mentioned build two years (I actually gave her IE6 back then), she called me a couple weeks ago because her computer was "broken" again. I figured it was more spyware. Nope. The box was clean. Her problems were that the C: drive was out of space because she wasn't saving anything on the completely unused 40GB D: drive (even though I showed her how to), and MS Messenger wouldn't download files directly because Windows Firewall was blocking it (like it is supposed to). This girl is all over Myspace and clicks on anything that her friends send her in the various IM programs she uses (AIM, MSM, Yahoo, etc.) It isn't THAT hard to keep a Windows box clean these days.

    14. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, whoever modded this Insightful is on crack. It was intended as a sarcastic dig at a particularly awful formulaic thread.

    15. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      You respect the gun, not the man. Unless you're into being dominated or a Republican (or, usually, both).

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    16. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by zeromorph · · Score: 1

      I think it shows how ambiguously the whole community feels.

      As far as I am concerned we should see spammers as opponent and respecting opponents is a good thing. They have done some clever moves over the last years and I still wait for a good answer from the community. I wouldn't expect much useful from companies like Microsoft here. I think the spammers utilize much of the best concepts that are around and I think an answer can only be a community driven (i.e. open source) decentralized countermove.

      http://www.okopipi.org/ that someone already mentioned above (or below), is a starting point. I think projects like these will lead to more useful things than just spam-fighting and I hope more people would devote time to this field.

      just my 2cents

      --
      "Hannibal's plans never work right. They just work." Amy/A-Team
    17. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      De-worm?

      Backup important non-executable information and wipe. Install from image or backup. Update from removable media.

      Sometimes it is MUCH faster than deworming the system.

    18. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Cato · · Score: 1

      I use NOD32 myself, and find it pretty good, although its UI is horrible. However, unless you are scanning with several tools and being generally vigilant about security, you won't know which malware your main AV and spyware tool are missing - no AV/spyware tool is 100% effective, and Storm in particular is morphing so fast that many variants still aren't detected.

      The simplest and cheapest solution to staying secure at present is to use a Linux distro for most Internet purposes, and keep Windows only for apps that must run there, e.g. Windows only games that don't run on Cedega/Wine etc. These days, Firefox and other apps on Ubuntu or similar modern distros are very good. If you don't want to install Linux, just download the Knoppix live CD and use that - it's incredibly good at detecting your hardware and will let you browse more safely.

      If you must use Windows, make sure you are a power user, or pay an expert for a few hours' setup, and maybe repeat calls every 3 months, and of course the cost of AV/spyware updates, and listen to their advice about not clicking on random URLs sent by friends. Windows really isn't a low cost option when you factor in the hassle of having to change all your passwords and worry about your cards or bank being raided, or the cost of paying for setup and software as here.

    19. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's somewhat amusing that people keep recommending AVG. It's a terrible Anti-Virus that has a low detection rate and a high rate of false positives.

    20. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Jeruvy · · Score: 1

      Well don't blame Windows for this. Studies show that linux servers are a bigger fish for these targets for many obvious reasons. Scale, bandwidth, sysadmins thinking their servers are rock hard, etc.

      --
      Jeruvy
    21. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Virgil+Tibbs · · Score: 1

      the Ui is the BEST bit about NOD32 in my opinion. compared to say, f-secre, symantec and mcafee, is is light on the system (small foorprint and always works.) its not the most USER friendly... but power users have no problem and anyway, it can vbe set up to scan daily and wghen opening all executables etc.
      IT is very good in my opnion.
      Before and switched to ubuntu and then consequently debian, I was running NOD32, with sunbelt kerio firewall and spybots teatimer.
      Even Spybots tea timer isnt easy to understand for users - registry keys are by definition confusing, especially some of the hacks the install systems uses them for.
      I have to say that linux is much less stressful to do support for and to repair when stuff does go wrong. at least you dont on whatever hnu+linux you choose to use you dont have to do loads of things.....

      p.s. if you are going to use a live cd, use ubuntu live cd instead of knoppix - i know knoppix is much more famous, but the ubuntu cd drops you in a friendly UI, which if u ever got the urge to, you could install and have a desktop. there are problems when installing knoppix as a permanat desktop.

      --
      www.tdobson.net #### Dare to Dream #### blog.tdobson.net
    22. Re:Survival of the fittest in action by Cato · · Score: 1

      I agree that Ubuntu is a better desktop install option than Knoppix, which doesn't work well on the HD, but Knoppix has much better hardware detection even now - Knoppix's UI is not very different to Ubuntu's, it just has a lot of software installed.

  5. Slashvertising. by onion2k · · Score: 5, Funny

    This slashvertising has reached a new low. ;)

    1. Re:Slashvertising. by Adeptus_Luminati · · Score: 1

      That's not offtopic. It's a joke people! You know, "haha". If I had mod points, I'd give it an under rated point. :)

      --
      No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
  6. How long before.. by monk.e.boy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How long before Storm is better than the Internet?

    It seems to be peer-2-peer, can host files, must be reliable (DNS and all that), encrypted traffic.

    If you assume Internet is past its sell by date, what would the next generation network look like?

    :-)

    (OK, maybe it wouldn't be owned by the mafia (insert USA joke here))

    1. Re:How long before.. by arkhan_jg · · Score: 0

      What do you think storm routes over, pink ponies? Storm is a collection of malicious software leeching bandwidth, storage and processing power from poorly maintained PCs connected via the existing internet infrastructure, using existing protocols and providers.

      It's a remarkably effective and populated P2P network running on top of the existing one, mainly due to significantly poor maintenance by a *lot* of PC owners. But nothing truly inventive, just big.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    2. Re:How long before.. by zufar · · Score: 1

      How long before bot nets start manipulating social sites? It would be quite easy to implement a bot-net crowd to promote spam in places like digg, reddit, etc. With time, this bot-nets can become opinion making tools that are more powerful than major TV networks. Will next presidential campaign be won by bot-net owners? :)

    3. Re:How long before.. by tokul · · Score: 1

      How long before Storm is better than the Internet?

      It seems to be peer-2-peer, can host files, must be reliable (DNS and all that), encrypted traffic.

      Never.

      It operates within limitations of Internet.

  7. Clever by Billosaur · · Score: 5, Funny

    The malware attacks behind this botnet have been relentless all year, using a wide range of clever social engineering lures to trick Windows users into downloading executable files with rootkit components.

    Windows has downloaded a new security update. Do you wish to install?

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:Clever by Gregb05 · · Score: 1

      That would never work, nobody updates Windows!

      --
      --
    2. Re:Clever by 15973 · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Doesn't matter if there's an update _after_ your system has been compromised. If updates were the answer to the botnet problem (instead of putting a band-aid on a bullet wound), then MS would actually have something to brag about...

    3. Re:Clever by Amouth · · Score: 1

      but the band-aid on the bullet wound always work for me in SR

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    4. Re:Clever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Year after Year of the Linux Desktop

      "Linux have downloaded a new security update, please enter your root password".

    5. Re:Clever by Reverend528 · · Score: 1

      As if microsoft would actually ask before installing an update on your computer.

    6. Re:Clever by rinaazlin · · Score: 1

      yes please. I wish to add a few and new malware to my PC

  8. Break the key with zombies? by ralf1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can I buy a partition of zombie PC's and use their processing power to crack the 40 bit key?

    --
    "Would you, could you, with a goat?" Dr Seuss
    1. Re:Break the key with zombies? by smussman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Can I buy a partition of zombie PC's and use their processing power to crack the 40 bit key? Unfortunately, it's a 40-byte key. You might look into getting several partitions.
    2. Re:Break the key with zombies? by timhillu03 · · Score: 1

      Check the article. It's 40BYTE, not 40BIT.

      40bit keys can be cracked in quite a short time by a normal PC using a brute force attack (less than a week). 40 bytes = 320 bits, which is not feasible to crack with modern technology.

    3. Re:Break the key with zombies? by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 2, Funny

      40 bytes = 320 bits, which is not feasible to crack with modern technology. Yes, it can, I've read Digital Fortress, the Dan Brown book. What do you mean, that was fiction? Next you'll be telling me the DaVinci Code isn't true!
      --
      init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    4. Re:Break the key with zombies? by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      No, but you could use one partition to remove the rootkit from another partition. Zombie wars!

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  9. Just curious.. by What+the+Frag · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... can the partitions be formated with ext2/3 or do have we stick to NTFS?

    1. Re:Just curious.. by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      oh, for mod points. +1 funny

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    2. Re:Just curious.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +5 underrated?!!??!!

  10. Blue Frog remembrance... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I remember when we proposed an anonymous P2P system for the anti-spam system "Okopipi" (successor of Blue Frog). We were criticized by saying spammers would use that system to make P2P networks for DNS attacks.

    One year later, spammers are ALREADY using a P2P system for such thing, while nobody has the means to counter them.

    The lesson: They got ahead of us. It's time we invest in countermeasures of our own, or succumb to the enemy. Because, we're losing.

    1. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by nuzak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So if we don't have exactly the same weapons that spammers have, we lose? Oh horseshit. It doesn't take clever technical tricks, it takes ISPs stopping direct port 25 access from their residential ranges. But they won't, because they're criminally negligent. They're also afraid that the zombies will send through the smarthost, that their smarthost will get blacklisted, and that they'll actually have to start paying attention to the security on their own networks. God forbid.

      If the dynamic residential ranges were adequately secured, the zombie problem would be a tiny fraction of what it is today.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    2. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. That would be the perfect solution. Unfortunately, with our current governments, implementing those "terrible" measures won't give them any money. So all that we have is to fight on our own. And legally - Blue frog's purpose wasn't DOS attacks, but filling the spammers' forms so their business model wouldn't work anymore.

    3. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by nettdata · · Score: 1

      Except that "they" ARE "us"... they just choose to use their powers for evil.

      --



      $0.02 (CDN)
    4. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by norton_I · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The zombies *will* go through the smarthost, and we will be pretty much back where we started, whether or not the smarthosts get blacklisted.

      Blocking port 25 is a reasonable idea, and many ISPs do it, but to say to do otherwise is criminally negligent or that doing so would stop worms from spreading is completely absurd.

      Pretty much the only effective tool ISPs have is to completely shut down the connection to any infected computer. But people will (rightly) get upset about that.

    5. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      Why rightly? Most of these things are trojans that the idiot user had to somewhow install themselves. Real worms aren't likely to nail users, if they are using windows update, and are behind a hardware firewall. If you are infected, you should be taken off the network until the problem is resolved. End of story.

    6. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if we don't have exactly the same weapons that spammers have, we lose? Oh horseshit. It doesn't take clever technical tricks, it takes ISPs stopping direct port 25 access from their residential ranges.

      N00b question: I use non-ISP email on a server run by a friend. When we found out that my ISP blocks port 25, we simply set things up to use a different port.

      If it's that easy, what's to stop "the enemy" from doing the same?

    7. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The zombies *will* go through the smarthost, and we will be pretty much back where we started, whether or not the smarthosts get blacklisted. Not if the smarthost requires authentication (which is really should) and enforces the rule that the From: field must correspond to the authenticated user. If it does this, then spammers will not be able to forge the From: address at all, and ISPs can simply limit the number of emails each customer is allowed to send a day to something reasonable.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not blocking various ports from home users due to random criminal trends is criminally negligent?

      Please get a fucking clue...

    9. Re:Blue Frog remembrance... by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      Tell the RIAA that they are using the botnets to pass copyrighted material. Then let them spend their $ attacking them; if they fail we win, if they succeed we win.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  11. Are there legitimate reasons to do this... by Animaether · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...and if there aren't, then why are reputable DNS servers allowing these super-fast changes to DNS records anyway? Certainly such trends can be easily detected and stopped dead in its tracks?

    1. Re:Are there legitimate reasons to do this... by BiOFH · · Score: 1

      Some 'legitimate' fast-flux DNS uses:
      * Some (IMHO misguided) sysadmins think "oh, I'll put in a super short TTL and I can swap out servers/services/whatever at a moment's notice".
      Quite frankly, most never end up needing to do this super-fast swapping or round-robin switching and it's just one of those 'good ideas' that have very little practical value for the majority of those using it. And it's often trivial to do using other less-burdensome methods especially for mail servers -- MX has built in fail-over. It also means more traffic is generated for each such DNS entry.
      * Also dial-up and wireless clients typically receive short TTL as they are transient connections.

      As far as using this for spambots, personally I believe anyone willing to accept mail from a source with a short TTL is just asking for it.

      --
      - I am made of meat.
  12. Bruce Schneier discusses the Storm Worm by Zymergy · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0710.html#1
    A good essay on the Storm Worm and how it works and how it can be prevented (or rather why it CAN'T be prevented in many cases).

    1. Re:Bruce Schneier discusses the Storm Worm by ZuG · · Score: 1

      I've read this essay, but I found it lacking in detail. Is there any analysis out there with full detail on how the worm works? I'm trying to understand the distributed command function and i'm just not seeing anything on it.

    2. Re:Bruce Schneier discusses the Storm Worm by Zymergy · · Score: 1

      Here is Schneier's Blog on the Storm Worm with more information: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/10/the_storm_worm.html
      also
      Computer Science Laboratory, SRI International, has a report Dated 10-10-07 on the Storm Worm with good detail: http://www.cyber-ta.org/pubs/StormWorm/report/
      PDF of the same report: http://www.cyber-ta.org/pubs/StormWorm/SRITechnical-Report-10-01-Storm-Analysis.pdf

    3. Re:Bruce Schneier discusses the Storm Worm by killmofasta · · Score: 1

      Bruce Schneier is great as his description of what the worm does.

      He, by nessesity has to keep some details secret, otherwise two things might happen:
      Someone could subvert the botnet network, and make it more hostile,
      (Its still a bit wimply by virulent standards),
      or tip off the author to hidden detection mechenims.

      I get about 2 or 3 botnet emails a day,
      and its rather obivious how to control them,
      and mitigate them, if you read the messages.
      ( i.e. look at the both the human plausibility factor
      and the tiny technical tidbits. )

      DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINKS WITHOUT FULL VIRUS PROTECTION,
      AND THE ABILITY TO AUDIT PROCESSES, DLL AND ACTIVE X CONTROLS.

    4. Re:Bruce Schneier discusses the Storm Worm by killmofasta · · Score: 1

      Distributed command function:

      "2. Storm is designed like an ant colony, with separation of duties. Only a small fraction of infected hosts spread the worm. A much smaller fraction are C2: command-and-control servers. The rest stand by to receive orders. By only allowing a small number of hosts to propagate the virus and act as command-and-control servers, Storm is resilient against attack. Even if those hosts shut down, the network remains largely intact, and other hosts can take over those duties."

      The botnet can be partitioned into sub-nets by the use of keys, (i.e. unique digital identifiers)
      so that ( simplified ), a command can be sent to a distribution point in the form

      To: Section Three, high communication rate hosts

      From: Command Key 4

      Re: Reconfiguration

      Command:
      Flip a coin and divide yourself into two more botnets called S3A S3B.
      Those in group A, go into which communication mode, and get more serfs.
      ( and command classify them to either hide out or join group S3A, and follow what they do)
      Those in group B,
      Await payload contents from This list of servers and distribute accordingly ).

      All written in encrypted command language the author designed.

      I have no idea of the actual mechanism, and if I did, I wouldn't be posting it in a public forum.
      Much easier to post change machine hacks to get the FBI a knockin...

  13. Fixing one part by BiOFH · · Score: 1

    One thing we can do? Everyone can just stop accepting mail from servers with short TTL and the fast-flux DNS model is no good to spammers.
    Yes, it's inconvenient to some ("wah! but I run sendmail off my laptop on dial-up!" - Yeah, well, go back in time to 1993 and have yourself a ball...). Frankly, they can just get the hell over it and use one of a dozen other methods to send out mail or increase their TTL. Spam is way more inconvenient and it affects everyone.

    This doesn't address other uses for these botnets, sure, but every little bit helps. Especially when some estimates now say that the amount of spam in mail traffic may be as high as 80%!

    And while we're at it... everyone get their damned DNS records set up properly. OK? It's not an option to have matching PTR and A records, it's required by RFC 1912.

    --
    - I am made of meat.
    1. Re:Fixing one part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If PTR and A have to match, why aren't they just collapsed to one field? It's pathetic 'configuration traps' like this which are partly to blame for the mess we're in.

    2. Re:Fixing one part by BiOFH · · Score: 1

      Because having multiple PTR entries for a single A is possible if needed. Also, it makes FCrDNS viable.
      It's not a 'trap'. It's part of the spec and RFC 1033 spells it out in a section called "instructions". Where's the voodoo in that?
      Anyone who can't do this properly (following what amounts to a checklist of 'do this, then do this') shouldn't be handling zone records.

      The problem is people NOT following spec, not any failing of the spec.

      --
      - I am made of meat.
    3. Re:Fixing one part by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      The problem is the atomization of the Internet and domains in particular. More and more companies run their own network and so not every company can afford or even find IT people with the skill and experience to know everything there is to know about DNS, DHCP, NAT, Multi-NAT, Traffic Shaping, QoS, Exchange, FTP, tFTP, VOIP, Hosted VOIP, SIP, SSL, Site Certificates, HTML, DHTML, CSS, Javascript, ASP, .NET, Flash, Gateways, Routers, Load Balancing, etc. that they need to know in order to do everything perfectly and be able to reference the applicable RFC's off the top of their heads. I know there is this tendency in designing interfaces for technical tings to not explain a damn thing but come on. Why not just write some damn javascript to check the webpage to see if the PTR and A records match when the submit button is hit and explain why that should not be the case before committing the changes to the system?

    4. Re:Fixing one part by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      As much as I love specs, the GP is right that fields which are required to be the same should be collapsed. If you need multiple, make multiple, but if you don't need multiple, don't make them put the field in. I'm sick and tired of everyone expecting people to follow shitty standards because they're the standard.

    5. Re:Fixing one part by BiOFH · · Score: 1

      Explain to me why it's shitty? Just because people don't like something doesn't make it bad.
      Why is reverse DNS bad?

      --
      - I am made of meat.
    6. Re:Fixing one part by BiOFH · · Score: 1

      Someone very well could 'write some damn javascript', but I'm not talking about your local hosting company's web interface.
      If you're using some web interface, then the host/ISP has the responsibility to prepare the records right.
      If you're not and you're doing your own zone files, then you do.
      If the people in either scenario cannot create the records properly, they shouldnt' be doing it. Plain and simple.
      DNS is a critical part of the Internet. Possibly the most critical part. And as such its not something Joe Bob in the phone closet or the guy from round the fix-it shop should be screwing around with unless he knows exactly what he's doing.

      --
      - I am made of meat.
    7. Re:Fixing one part by kasperd · · Score: 1

      If PTR and A have to match, why aren't they just collapsed to one field?
      Which requirement are you thinking about? I know of at least two completely different requirements that people have made, each of which could match the description you gave.
      1. Make a reverse lookup of an IP, and then do a forward lookup of the resulting name to see that you get the original IP. Doing that actually makes sense. If you just did a reverse lookup of the IP, then the provided hostname could be spoofed. Anybody who control reverse lookups can give you an arbitrary domain name. However, if a forward lookup of the domain name give you the original IP, you can have more confidence, that they actually control the domain name.
      2. Require that the name given in an SMTP HELO command match the domainname you get from a reverse lookup of the IP. That requirement doesn't make the slightest sense to me - heeeelloooo if they were supposed to match, why would there even be a HELO command in the protocol? You could just do the DNS lookup and be donw with it. OTOH, requiring that a forward lookup of the name provided in the HELO command actually match the IP the connection originate from would make a bit of sense. But even that may not always be feasible.
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    8. Re:Fixing one part by totally+bogus+dude · · Score: 1

      Everyone can just stop accepting mail from servers with short TTL and the fast-flux DNS model is no good to spammers.

      I don't understand why you think this would prevent them from spamming people. The short TTLs are on domains like omdmfvimcwof.com. These domains are used only for communication within the Storm cloud. Sender addresses for spam emails are nearly always spoofed from 'real' domain names, which have normal TTLs (most spam doesn't require an email reply, so the sender address is almost always either completely bogus or just another random victim's address).

      The only other DNS record you could use is the PTR records for the IP addresses of the client (if they even exist), but these will have normal TTLs, because they're not controlled by the spammers.

      It's not an option to have matching PTR and A records, it's required by RFC 1912.

      Firstly, it is an option. I only bother to get my ISP to add PTR records for my mail servers, and that's it.

      Secondly, if everyone does set up properly matching PTR and address records, how will that help?

    9. Re:Fixing one part by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's an issue over control. The owner of the domain controls the A field, but the owner of the IP controls the PTR field. If you allow A records to be set implicitly from PTR records, then anyone can set the forward DNS for any domain to their IP. If you allow A records to set PTR records, then I can subvert the reverse DNS of any IP to point to my IP.

      Having them as separate fields is a security check; it requires that the owner of the IP and domain either be the same person, or be two people who agree on the use of the machine referenced.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Fixing one part by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      That requirement doesn't make the slightest sense to me - heeeelloooo if they were supposed to match, why would there even be a HELO command in the protocol? Because it's a one-to-many mapping. You can have multiple PTR records for a single IP. If I use the same mail server for foo.com and bar.com, then I can set up PTR records pointing to both foo.com and bar.com. If you do a reverse DNS lookup, you will get both. The HELO command lets me pick which one I want to be today.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:Fixing one part by BiOFH · · Score: 1

      "Sender addresses for spam emails are nearly always spoofed from 'real' domain names, which have normal TTLs..."

      Why would I check the TTL for the addresser's domain? It's just a chunk of text. I check the machine making the connection. So if it attempts to present as a particular machine _and I check the PTR against it_ I reject the mail out of hand if they don't match. So, I'm checking the TTL _and_ doing reverse lookup. Short TTL, don't accept. Mismatched A/PTR, don't accept. And, quite frankly, we stop a lot of spam this way.

      "Firstly, it is an option. I only bother to get my ISP to add PTR records for my mail servers, and that's it."

      It's not an option. It's required. Read the RFCs. But at least you bother with your mail servers. That's something.
      It helps because it's common for spammers to attempt to masquerade as another machine. Matching against PTR stops this from working.

      "Secondly, if everyone does set up properly matching PTR and address records, how will that help?"

      See above.

      --
      - I am made of meat.
    12. Re:Fixing one part by totally+bogus+dude · · Score: 1

      I check the machine making the connection. So if it attempts to present as a particular machine _and I check the PTR against it_ I reject the mail out of hand if they don't match.

      Right, I'm with you. It is effective, but I tend to find this generates too many false positives. I merely block non-FQDN HELOs, but have to make exceptions for even that on occasion. Trying to convince people to configure their systems properly is often futile, as I'm about to demonstrate...

      It's not an option. It's required.

      For practical purposes, it is optional. Almost nothing does reverse DNS lookups, and only a subset of those actually care about the results. SMTP is one of them, which is why I bother there. The only other one I can think of at the moment is IRC, and that's pretty much just a vanity thing. I also got my ISP to set a PTR for our NTP server when I added it to the pool, but that's also purely a vanity thing (maybe some geek somewhere will notice he's got a good time source, look up the IP, and think better of our organisation... which will somehow benefit us in an even more roundabout manner). While I appreciate you being a stickler for doing things The Right Way, in actual practice there is zero benefit to setting correct PTRs for the vast majority of applications, which is why almost nobody does it, and looks at you funny when you tell them they ought to / have to.

      if everyone does set up properly matching PTR and address records, how will that help? See above.

      I meant, how will it help in the long term? While your method is quite effective at the moment (with the false positives caveat, which may or may not matter depending on the purpose of your SMTP service), it's a lot like greylisting: wonderfully effective to start with, but losing effectiveness as spammers make their bots a bit smarter. It's not entirely rocket-science to work out one's correct internet-facing IP address, do a DNS lookup, and then use that in your HELO's from now on; and if an SMTP client connects to you from 68.42.86.74 and claims to be "c-68-42-86-74.hsd1.mi.comcast.net" how are you going to decide it's a zombie spambot?

      The only reason spammers don't already do this is because it's slightly more effort to code, and the gain from it is minimal until a significant number of people perform the check you suggest. If more people did that, it'd become worthwhile for the spammers to make their bots that tiny bit smarter, and the check would become much less useful.

      In fact, if everyone set up matching PTRs and A records for every IP, then that combined with slightly smarter bots that use their real hostname in the HELO would completely undermine the effectiveness of your HELO/PTR check. Wouldn't it?

    13. Re:Fixing one part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why is reverse DNS bad?
       
      Because it gives zealots like you the ammo to go around trying to turn DNS from a many-to-one mapping of

      A -> PTR
      into a one-to-one mapping of

      A <-> PTR
      .

      If it was fucking one-to-one then they should have just said so and saved everyone alot of trouble and limited the number of DNS names to the number of IPs. This is where the "collapse into one field" comments are coming from. Is DNS A->PTR mapping many-to-one or not in your lofty opinion? And why don't google's mail related servers follow that rule? And how frequent are multiple PTR records per A records that you (I think it was you) were on about in a previous comment; and why is that allowed?
    14. Re:Fixing one part by kasperd · · Score: 1

      Because it's a one-to-many mapping. You can have multiple PTR records for a single IP. If I use the same mail server for foo.com and bar.com, then I can set up PTR records pointing to both foo.com and bar.com. If you do a reverse DNS lookup, you will get both. The HELO command lets me pick which one I want to be today.
      I think you meant to say many-to-many. Apart from that, I do get your point. Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to work anyway. First of all, the software implementing the checking, which I described, rarely (if ever) supports the scenario where the IP map to multiple hostnames. Rather what happens in a bit more detail is, that first one component does a lookup of the IP and get a hostname. If you tried to give it multiple, it would (depending on the implementation) take either the first or a random. It then passes on the hostname it got from the HELO command and the hostname it got by looking up the IP. Then another component (possibly much later) will compare the two hostnames to see if they are identical. The fact that the IP resolved to multiple hostnames would have been forgotten already, and all it knows about are the two hostnames provided by a component, which had no idea that some later system would expect the two to be identical.

      Another problem is, that it is much more common to have multiple hostnames resolve to one IP, but have the IP resolve to just one hostname. And that hostname is often not the one you intend to provide in your HELO command. A much more reliable verification would be to just lookup the hostname provided in the HELO command, and not even bother with using DNS to perform IP to hostname lookups. Of course you could just completely forget about trying to validte the hostname in the HELO command. My experience is, that any attempts at such validation does more harm than good.
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
  14. How can you tell if you are infected? by UberHoser · · Score: 1

    And no, not a rash or anything of that crap :P I don't leave my pc's at home on 24/7, and I am up to date with everything (AV, FW, Widows Patches). Could I still be infected ?

    --
    Guns are for wimps... Use a crossbow.. this way you can pin them to their chair when you go postal.
    1. Re:How can you tell if you are infected? by Chapter80 · · Score: 2, Funny
      I think the best way to tell if you are infected is to monitor your network traffic. Ideally, from an independent machine watching the traffic. (Not that I have ever done this, but it seems like the most fool-proof method.)

      I am up to date with everything (AV, FW, Widows Patches)
      What are you up to? Dating patches of women who lost their husband? Yeah, that might infect you! ;)
    2. Re:How can you tell if you are infected? by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      I was thinking that maybe the Widow Patch was to help you through withdrawing from your widow.

      Presumably they're loaded with baby oil or something.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  15. So, how bad is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've not been actively following the Storm Worm Botnet stories, but I've picked up a few details which, on the surface, are downright frightening: Storm infects between 1 and 50 million PCs; it's more powerful than the world's supercomputers; dynamically evolves to avoid counteractions by security companies; and only uses 20% of its potential computing power at the moment.

    These blurbs, if they're true, paint a bleak picture. Should the hackers leverage the network's full power, couldn't they shut down just about any server on earth? And imagine the bandwidth costs of this thing operating at full force.

    So for those in the know, is Storm just a way to propagate spam and annoy people? Or is it something even more dangerous?

    1. Re:So, how bad is it? by asuffield · · Score: 1

      So for those in the know, is Storm just a way to propagate spam and annoy people? Or is it something even more dangerous?


      So far as anybody knows, it does nothing just yet, except for a very small part that is used to spread Storm. The prevailing theory is that it is for sale to the highest (criminal) bidder. It looks like somebody is getting serious about providing hijacked hosts for sale (this is not a new activity, but it's never happened on this scale before). One or more of the organised crime syndicates is probably involved somewhere.
    2. Re:So, how bad is it? by joe+155 · · Score: 1

      "So for those in the know, is Storm just a way to propagate spam and annoy people? Or is it something even more dangerous?"

      I'm not "in the know" per se, but my analysis of the situation - especially given the developments mentioned above - is that Storm probably is both. If all you want to do is to make money then it really doesn't matter if you're selling your power for spam or for attacking governments. Money is money. So if a black hat decides that instead of just sending the usual spam out he'd really like to have a crack at a government he doesn't like then I guess he could just cough up the money and away they go.

      Call me paranoid but I wouldn't be that amazed if certain regimes consider going the owner of Storm (assuming they can find someone who knows who it is... or how to get in contact with people who do) in order to attack other governments. It would be a great proxy for an attack.

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    3. Re:So, how bad is it? by Torontoman · · Score: 1

      I'm just counting down the days until the AI starts building it's own robots...

    4. Re:So, how bad is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i don't suppose zdnet would have a vested interest in scaring people in this manner?

    5. Re:So, how bad is it? by kindbud · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Storm infects between 1 and 50 million PCs;

      What is the difference between that statement and "I have no idea how many, so I'll toss out scary numbers."

      (hint: the second statement is honest)

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
  16. Rename by surajbarkale · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's about time we start calling it Skynet

    --
    With Great Power Comes No Love Life! - Samit Basu
    1. Re:Rename by Anubis_Ascended · · Score: 1
      Better yet...

      "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Disable your firewalls, and forward your ports. Your processing power and hard drive capacity will be added to our own. Resistance is futile."

    2. Re:Rename by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we convinced them to do that, could we in theory detect who is infected by watching for the same encrypted word being changed?
      From that could we pull some Enigma shit using the network and break the 40 bit key?

  17. Yes. Re:Are there legitimate reasons to do this... by algae · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure there are legitimate reasons to do this - one of them is cheap datacenter fail-over. If I have web servers colocated in two different datacenters with two different ISPs, and one of them goes down, I can change the TTL on my DNS records to, say 30 seconds, and point all the addresses to the other location. The short short TTL will cause global DNS to be updated much more quickly than normal, and my web site's traffic won't dead-end.

    On the other hand, I defintiely see ISPs that don't respect DNS TTLs anyway.

    --
    Causation can cause correlation
  18. How would this service be marketed? by ktappe · · Score: 1

    What amazed me about this article is how unsure it is of everything. "Appears that" and "may be" keep coming up. If things are that unsure, how can the potential customers of this segmented spamnet know that there is a service for sale? Wouldn't any marketing that these bot-admins do also be picked up by the white hat guys? I'm confused.

    --
    "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
    1. Re:How would this service be marketed? by asuffield · · Score: 1

      In two words: organised crime. It's the sort of thing they excel at. You won't see your friendly neighbourhood drug dealer advertising in any newspapers - but he's there.

    2. Re:How would this service be marketed? by cez · · Score: 1
      When's the last time you hung out at a hooka bar in Moscow?


      Obviously, criminal activities aren't marketed in the open...seen any adverts for Drugs recently (yes the good fun kind, not the prescriptions they shove down your throat)...not saying I know for sure, but I think people can still get them.

      --
      Walk with Music;
    3. Re:How would this service be marketed? by ewhenn · · Score: 1

      My carbon coated spoon can confirm people still get them.

  19. Can it be that hard to catch whoever is behind it? by TorKlingberg · · Score: 1

    Since Storm is probably run by a single person, or a single group, how have they managed to avoid getting caught? Especially if they start make money on it, it should be possible to track them that way.

  20. the point by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Funny

    If 90% of what you get for connecting to the Internet is problems, what's the point? Bile spewing bloggers, bought-and-paid news reports and total advertising awareness? pr0n?
  21. The ultimate goal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Presumably, the result of this and further partitioning will be Internet 3.

  22. This problem is its own solution... by MiniMike · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Step 1: Rent botnet.
    Step 2: Have each 'rented' computer run update, anti-virus, anti-malware...
    Step 3: Profit! Ok, no profit, but maybe you get to enjoy reduced amounts of spam.

    Repeat until bored.

    1. Re:This problem is its own solution... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1
      And at the same time provide the spammers with more money so that they can continue.

      I'm starting to think that spammers should get familiar with the business end of a Desert Eagle .50 or similar device.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:This problem is its own solution... by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      Step 1: Rent botnet.
      Step 2: Have each 'rented' computer run update, anti-virus, anti-malware...
      Step 3: Profit! Ok, no profit, but maybe you get to enjoy reduced amounts of spam.

      Step 4: Never be seen again after you get shot in the head, dismembered, and buried in the desert by the organized crime connections of the botnet owners.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    3. Re:This problem is its own solution... by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1
      Better yet, replace Step 2 with:

      Step 2: Have each 'rented' computer download, and make available for download, various movies and music. And Step 3 with:

      Step 3: Profit! as the ??AA begins systematically attacking the botnet. And Step 4 with:

      Step 4: Laugh with glee as dismembered pieces of ??AA executives and lawyers begin washing up on river banks.
  23. Be impressed! Here's the best use for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    All one needs to do to improve the Internet is to buy some of these botnets and put together a Denial of Service attack on the Russian Business Network

    The next time you have to clean up after one of these messes, you might consider how much cheaper it is to use their tactics against them, and put them out of business.

  24. Re:Can it be that hard to catch whoever is behind by Genocaust · · Score: 1

    If they are located in a country with lax laws or that is reluctant to support international efforts to shut them down, it could be difficult. There was an article posted just yesterday I believe about the Russian Business Network; they solely exist to promote and host illegal activities, yet the Russian government, due to its laws, has no power to shut them down.

    I could see this spun many ways, in the US it is illegal to "make available" as with all the RIAA cases, but that is seemingly not the issue in Russia as the RBN "makes available" so-called "bulletproof hosting" for criminal organizations. So perhaps the owner(s) of Storm are saying "Hey, we're making available some raw processing power, who wants to buy?"

    --
    It could be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
  25. What is preventing a sting? by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People are hijacking PCs and servers all over the globe and selling access to them to spammers and other shady characters. This is an organized crime of GLOBAL scale. Why the hell isn't Interpol or some large law enforcement body prepared to follow the money to the sources and burn them with it?

    And if we don't have the REAL people to work on this, perhaps we should hire Hollywood to get the job done because it seems like the only real law enforcement that happens these days is in the movies or on TV.

    1. Re:What is preventing a sting? by pla · · Score: 1

      This is an organized crime of GLOBAL scale. Why the hell isn't Interpol or some large law enforcement body prepared to follow the money to the sources and burn them with it?

      You assume too much in not considering that Interpol or the NSA or Mossad may very well run this thing.

      Not claiming that they do, but finding out they do wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    2. Re:What is preventing a sting? by blhack · · Score: 1

      You assume too much in not considering that Interpol or the NSA or Mossad may very well run this thing. What motivation would the NSA, which is an orginization with almost limitless funds, have in creating a botnet of the scale of storm? If they did, why would they sell it off?
      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    3. Re:What is preventing a sting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an organized crime of GLOBAL scale. Why the hell isn't Interpol or some large law enforcement body prepared to follow the money to the sources and burn them with it?

      Because the police officers who work for the Interpol are 50-60 years old and still use "green screen" computers at work. Those intarweb tubes are a new thing which younger police will have seen are mostly used by paedophiles but it doesn't really have any use in honest police work.

    4. Re:What is preventing a sting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interpol has an annual budget of 50 million USD. thats about the size of a medium sized police department in the usa.
      with that budget and staff i would be amazed if they found a botnet in the building.

    5. Re:What is preventing a sting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a lot of nations that can not spend the amount of money the US spends on the NSA. Funding a small team of genius programmers is possible for a lot of them.

    6. Re:What is preventing a sting? by Embedded2004 · · Score: 1

      Heh. You don't need anything but a small team of below average programmers to do something like this.

    7. Re:What is preventing a sting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there isn't a -1 disagree modifier for a reason, -1 offtopic and -1 troll aren't valid substitutes.
      There isn't a -1 incorrect moderation, though it is very needed. Offtopic and troll might be the best approximations.
    8. Re:What is preventing a sting? by sjames · · Score: 1

      What motivation would the NSA, which is an orginization with almost limitless funds, have in creating a botnet of the scale of storm? If they did, why would they sell it off?

      Deniability?

    9. Re:What is preventing a sting? by sjames · · Score: 1

      They're much too busy hunting down people who hack DSS, try to smuggle shampoo on a commercial flight, put litebrites in public places, or play the radio too loud at work.

    10. Re:What is preventing a sting? by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      What motivation would the NSA, which is an orginization with almost limitless funds, have in creating a botnet of the scale of storm? If they did, why would they sell it off? shits and giggles, baby.
  26. Unethical countermeasures? by dtml-try+MyNick · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First things first, IANAE (I am not a expert)

    I've recently read some stories about this botnet. From what I've gathered it's powerfull enough to do some serious damage in a society. Cyber attacks can disrupt our lives in multiple ways after all.
    Imo we're just lucky so far that it hasnt been used for some serious attack on money/bank agencies, public transport, etc etc, stuff close to us and vital for average day life. (or am I just being to paranoid now?)

    The hosts that are infected will most likely be bad maintained boxes, unattended, never updated. Wouldn't it be possible to write a counterworm/trojan that would delete the bot software and close the holes?

    I realise the ethical issues involved here. A Trojan like this would basicly be just as "bad" as the botnet itself, on the other hand it would be for the greater good.
    Has anyone ever attempted this? If not, what if someone did? Would you be pissed off if one of your forgotten and infected boxes would be cleaned this way?

    Just being curious..

    --
    Life starts at the end of your comfort zone.
    1. Re:Unethical countermeasures? by u38cg · · Score: 1
      One of the first things a competent virus does nowadays is to sweep the host it has just infected for other malware and to remove any that is hostile to the authors aims. As usual, the bad guys are ahead of you ;) I have read anecdotal stories of people doing this back in the days when virii were novelties rather than dangers.

      However, at the end of the day a counter-worm would still be a worm and, and running unauthorised software on someone else's box is still unethical, never mind illegal, no matter what it actually does. There are plenty virii that do absolutely nothing except propagate.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    2. Re:Unethical countermeasures? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Most likely Storm closes whatever hole it used to get into the machine, so no other worm can come in afterwards.

      It isn't unknown for rival worm authors to attack each other's worms.

    3. Re:Unethical countermeasures? by BRMachine · · Score: 1

      Storm does in fact protect the zombie system from other malware installations, so a "counter" worm would be ineffective.

      The key is to catch the Bot "master" and decapitate. We know they are in Russia, and there are even indications who they are. Without someone updating code to keep the worm alive, it might be taken down, or at least slowed. Pressure on Russian authorities would be the best route. Boycott Russian exports if necessary until they deal with it. Something better be done soon, or some very nasty things could happen. Remember "Blue Security" and Estonia? Think of that 100 times worse.

      --
      Plus ca change...Plus c'est la meme chose.
    4. Re:Unethical countermeasures? by ratboy666 · · Score: 1

      Not just ethics -- its just not practical.

      STORM (mostly) just installs and hides. It doesn't DO anything that a user would notice. The only thing it does (which, generally, is not noticed) is mutate itself twice an hour.

      Only a small fraction of STORM infected systems try to spread STORM. An even smaller fraction act as a distributed control net.

      Since the control net is distributed, it is very difficult to trace. Since STORM is ...quiet... it isn't noticed (and that's why estimates on how many systems are infected vary so wildly).

      A "counter-STORM" would have to infect wildly to begin to be effective. Because it cannot know how far the STORM "infection" has spread. And that would be too disruptive (basically, the equivalent of a STORM attack itself). You can try to lop off the commanding systems, but just more would pop up. You can try to lop off DNS, but STORM has a counter-measure for that as well (rapid DNS cycling).

      --
      Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
    5. Re:Unethical countermeasures? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      What if the anti-worm was started on an infected computer (shouldn't be hard to get infected, I guess), and then tried to analyse the communication pattern to find more infected computers to counter-infect?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    6. Re:Unethical countermeasures? by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Actually it would not be so unethical....follow me on this one...
      I develop a list of people I have solicited to join a program to install malware that deletes other malware...so you have to join to get in...sort of like the google free process project.
      Then once joined you always go back to the website...that installs the malware from the login screen onced logged in, so if the new malware was ever erased by a BAD malware, it would redownload everytime.

      Make the login process interesting that someone wants to relog everyday...sort o like slashdot...i read their stories everyday....everyday i would download the GOOD malware. I would give permission knowingly to make the internet a better place...and the ads on the site would pay for having this service free....compared to the many malware and AV today that still dont really work...

    7. Re:Unethical countermeasures? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      no you don't decapitate them you capture them and torture them until they give you the control keys ;)

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  27. Re:Can it be that hard to catch whoever is behind by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    One of the reasons they have not been caught is BECAUSE it is a single person or small group.

    Small = harder to find unless you area a '133t' programer bragginb about how good youare.

    You want to keep a secret you tell NO ONE, you don't go spreading it around.

    The real way to kill storm is to basically start having interpol treat it like drug trafficking, getting real cooperation, fairly quickly, instead of just ignoring it as not important.

    You have cops not investigate one crime then guess what happens - the criminals FLOURISH.

    You start having cops arrest people start investigating and arresting people then it works. Yeah, you have to wait till they move the crime from cyber to real life (i.e. ask for money) but it can be done.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  28. Missing in the summary by Statecraftsman · · Score: 1

    Where's their online store and to which paypal address do I send the funds?

  29. Re:Can it be that hard to catch whoever is behind by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

    One of the reasons they have not been caught is BECAUSE it is a single person or small group.
    [snip]
    The real way to kill storm is to basically start having interpol treat it like drug trafficking, getting real cooperation, fairly quickly, instead of just ignoring it as not important.

    These two statements pretty much contradict each other. Who are you going to get to cooperate if it's a single individual, or small, well insulated group?

    --
    What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
  30. Did anyone else... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0, Troll

    ... look at the first four words of the title and think the editors strung four random words together?

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    1. Re:Did anyone else... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      How was that a troll?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    2. Re:Did anyone else... by simonmsims · · Score: 1

      hehe, you're right ;)

  31. Re:Rename Redux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not Skynet! A better sci-fi reference is "The Replicators" from SG, LOL!

  32. Re:Are there legitimate reasons to do this? by PetiePooo · · Score: 1

    Ok, but I think the original poster's argument is, the DNS servers that normal consumers connect to (ie. supplied by DHCP when connecting to your ISP) shouldn't normally be receiving lost of responses with very short TTLs.

    Is this another one of those things an ISP *could* do to help control this scourge? Could they reject all DNS responses with a TTL below some threshold, even if its 29 seconds, and not break legitimate access? Or keep those responses in the cache and flag/reject follow-on responses if the IP changes too frequently, perhaps...

    And if you're one of those setting your TTLs to 30 seconds to facilitate datacenter failover, first, you're increasing the load on the ISP's DNS servers, so they have a legitimate gripe for you using shorter-than-recommended TTLs. Get yourself a real failover system, cheapskate! Plus, if they still wanted to be nice, they could do some research and whitelist those FQDNs with short TTLs that don't fast flux.

    Granted, these ideas mean changes to the DNS server behavior, but that's just software. Someone at one of the ISPs needs to research this, run some tests, and submit updates to their DNS server supplier.

  33. BZT! IAmSorryThankYouForPlayingNextContestantPLEEZ by abb3w · · Score: 1

    Think about it, each machine in the network needs to talk to the other machines. The key has to be stored somewhere on the machine.

    Not quite correct. Each machine in the network needs to be able to relay messages to the other machines; it therefore only needs the Public Key half, to verify that the messages it receives should be obeyed and/or passed along further (or simply dropped on the floor). The Private Key need only reside in the hands of the owner; in theory (if they're Diabolical), it could be kept on a high-end calculator, and the encrypted instructions only put onto the internet by 10-finger interface.

    ortva 644 RIVY.GKG
    Z22=-($R.(%52($R.5$523Q546@U@2$%+24K@55(@6Q]-0QR%6@U@("!.3GG@
    (3Q]-($L/30V2
    `
    raq

    Tedious, but possible. Can I haz Patent now?

    --
    //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  34. I'm impressed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Because I use a Mac.

  35. c4v3aT 3mpt0R by xactuary · · Score: 2, Funny

    The partition you just purchased is on your own hard drive.

    --
    Say hello to my little sig.
  36. Re:Yes. Re:Are there legitimate reasons to do this by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and one of them goes down, I can change the TTL on my DNS records to, say 30 seconds
    Changing the TTL when you need to change the records, won't make any difference. Those nameservers that already have cached the IP addresses of your machines will have cached the old TTL also. Those nameservers that need to look up the IP address will pick up the new IP address irrespective of the TTL.

    It really only makes a difference if your domain's TTL is short before you need to make the change.
    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  37. sell it by el_coyotexdk · · Score: 1

    to seti@home :]

  38. CmdrTaco is behind this by Experiment+626 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The updates are part of the Slashdot tenth anniversary auction. In addition to the @slashdot.org address and low user id, CmdrTaco has also gotten the operators of the Storm Worm Botnet to auction its use off as part of the charity action.

    Some potential uses for the winning bidder:

    • No longer will you have to only imagine having a Beowulf cluster of those.
    • Create your own Slashdot effect at the push of a button.
    • Thousands of Slashdot sock puppet accounts at your beck and call, ready to mod you up, karma-assassinate your foes, or post supportive replies to all the drivel you post.
    • Bring the parallel power of distributed computing to bear on problems like cracking DRM, modelling global warming, or ray tracing pictures of Natalie Portman with hot grits.
    • DDOS the RIAA / SCO / Diebold / whoever and become an instant Slashdot hero.
    • In Soviet Russia, spammers inboxes get flooded by YOU!
    1. Re:CmdrTaco is behind this by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1
      However, there are still some problems with the botnet:
      • In Korea, only old computers get infected.
      • Some bots misbehave because of sloppy editing of the command chain.
      • Some commands get duped.
      • For some reason, several commands are redirected to goatse.
      • The bots always mod down the first command.
      • Whenever you try any serious use of the botnet, you hit a missing option.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:CmdrTaco is behind this by edgr · · Score: 1

      You were jesting with your suggestions of uses, but what are the chances that someone will buy a chunk who just sees it as the cheapest way to get some processing power/storage/hosting, and use it for some non-evil purpose?

  39. Re:Are there legitimate reasons to do this? by BiOFH · · Score: 1

    "Get yourself a real failover system, cheapskate!"

    Amen.

    --
    - I am made of meat.
  40. Yes. by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Simple answer, complex solution.

    First your firewall, useless (against storm). One of the attack paths of storm is to get YOU the user to visit an infected site, often by sending you an email. Unless your firewall somehow knows ALL infected sites and blocks them all (unlikely) the email will arrive, and the site will be visited and the trojan loaded. You could setup a firewall that protects against this, but you don't have one, because if you did, you wouldn't have to ask, you would know. Firewalls only help against worm attacks, were an outside computer probes your network for weaknesses. IF you configure your firewall extremely rigidly and only allow known traffic through it, then malware on your network could be blinded, unable to connect to any command parts of the storm network. It is possible to use for instance iptables (linux) to inspect all packages going through it and simply drop unwanted traffic. Since storm now apparently uses encrypted p2p(edonkey) traffic this shouldn't even be too hard. This would however result in a less userfriendly network. The only experience I got was in a setup that ONLY wanted regular HTTP traffic, and this meant a LOT of stuff failed, even web traffic because not all web application create proper headers. (I wonder what the recent MS stealth update means for windows, did this traffic pass unseen through software firewalls?)

    Then your AV software. Forget about it, storm mutates itself. Since AV software mostly works with signatures, it can never be uptodate enough. I read a report that it changes every half hour. How the hell are you going to keep your signature data that uptodate?

    Windows patches. They ain't uptodate thanks to MS dreaded patch tuesday. THis means that a security hole can EASILY be unpatched for weeks. COnsidering this is MS we are talking about, practice is far longer. You will be the target of exploits MS does not know about yet, won't develop a patch for for months, that they will delay for weeks to deploy and for which the AV companies do not have signature.

    Anyway the most recent big security hole involves PDF's, that is Adobe, nothing to do with MS. You have to be uptodate on EVERYTHING. That includes EVERY codec, every handler EVERY single piece of code on your computer. Have an image browser installed? Are you sure that not a single on of the image codecs it uses has a flaw? If you update one image browser are you sure that not one single program on your computer still uses an old library that is still vulnerable? Remember, if a storm attack only infects a fraction of a percentage of computers, they still got hundreds of thousands of machines.

    START TO GET THE PICTURE?

    Basically you are like a good soldier, who keeps his gun clean, doesn't screw with hookers and stays awake on guard asking how well he standsup to a full out nuclear war. YOU ARE TOAST PRIVATE!

    But there is hope, the most common form of infection is still through user interaction. YOU have to open the PDF, you have to execute the exe/scr/sh/dmg/whatever, you have to visit the link. The most powerfull attack is social engineering, get that soldier in his invincible armour to pickup a grenade and eat it.

    The really odd thing is that you do not even have to be paranoid to avoid it. Just don't click on things. IF somebody sends you a story headline, visit the BBC site yourselve. If somebody wants to send you pictures of some celeb flashing her aging bits, don't. There is plenty of fresh porn with nice looking girls out there (cheggit.net).

    So what do you need to stay safe?

    Mostly, your brain. Disable every bit of automation in software and instead let your brain do the thinking. NEVER just use automatic install (spyware) and never allow for instance outlook to preload crap or preview stuff. Email is for text, not webpages. But mostly ask yourselve WHO is sending me this, and WHY. One of the most amazing attacks I seen was by sending a "joke" attachment to people in your address book. Here is a hint, I am dutch. My brother I

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Yes. by jimicus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or you could run Linux.

    2. Re:Yes. by Bongo+Bill · · Score: 1

      Good advice for preventing infection, but how, again, does a person find out if they're already infected?

      --
      ...but is it art?
    3. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice post - you have this pretty much spot on. But where should the caring slashdotter send click-happy friends to have this beaten into them in words of 2 syllables?

    4. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is a pdf link that tells you if you are infected... ;)

    5. Re:Yes. by analog_line · · Score: 2, Informative

      Basically, it's impossible to know for certain that you're infected, because the people that design and implement these botnets are the best in the world at what they do. They are paid quite a lot, regularly, have no scruples about how they conduct their research, and can do their research totally anonymously.

      The only way to know if your operating system has been infected is to be lucky enough to have the bad guys screw up and flood your system with enough bad stuff to affect performance. Even then, plain old operating system cruft can have much the same effect (especially on Windows, and often on Macs, even on Linux depending on how you muck around with it). Thankfully for most of us, criminals have been unable (through lack of ability or knowlege) to design software that hides well at all. When something bad got on your system, it could at least be found, if not directly dealt with beyond a nuke from orbit.

      Storm is the most highly publicized way that this is all changing. These people are smart, motivated, and well funded. As opposed to merely reacting to AV companies, they've begun anticipating the kind of things that AV companies will be trying, and working out ways to protect against those attacks, and hiding in the host is the single most important part of that. Old computer viruses killed the host, but that's not a good survival trait for a virus. Viruses that hide around under the covers and do their spreading with a mimimum of impact on their hosts are the most successful. See: the common cold. And computer viruses do things that the common cold could never dream of doing, like mutating every half hour to avoid the body's own antivirus defenses.

    6. Re:Yes. by ozphx · · Score: 1

      Then instead of the nice productive soldier standing on guard duty you'd be more like the shabbily dressed hippy mooching off his parents, smoking weed and complaining about how "war is, like, bad, man."

      --
      3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
    7. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it would be more like the guard in the nearby fallout-bunker asking the same question, and getting "We are perfectly safe here, soldier".

    8. Re:Yes. by RMH101 · · Score: 0, Troll

      ...perfectly safe, here in our parent's basement.

  41. Hey, some of us use other POP services... by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I don't think it's at all reasonable to say that everyone should be stuck with ISP email only just to help clean up spam. For me personally the value of being able to contact a POP or IMAP server of my choosing does outweigh negatives of spam.

    Where's that checklist...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Hey, some of us use other POP services... by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > For me personally the value of being able to contact a POP or IMAP server of my choosing does outweigh negatives of spam.

      What does POP and IMAP have to do with SMTP? You've got your MUAs and your MTAs confused. If you want to contact arbitrary SMTP servers around the world, then use port 587 or tunnel it. The rest of the SMTP servers of the world who don't know you would just as soon rather not talk to you if you're some anonymous dynamic IP. And the people that wrote that checklist think the same way.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
  42. Re:Yes. Re:Are there legitimate reasons to do this by guruevi · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually you'll have to change the TTL prior to failing over. So if you use it for active fail-over and not for scheduled maintenance, the other nameservers will be using your 'old' TTL. A common mistake by cheap webhosters.

    The other issue is that TTL is a suggested time for keeping your records alive. The other (caching) nameserver can choose to ignore it (to circumvent stuff like this botnet or just to keep it's own load down) or if it can't reach your nameservers after that TTL you specified it will just wait until the next cycle (2*TTL) or until your Maximum TTL (there is another record for that) has been exceeded which means it will not give any results anymore if it can't contact the nameservers. There are also caching nameservers that set up a minimum TTL which overrides your recommended TTL and maximum TTL.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  43. All that's fine but by joe+slacker · · Score: 1

    Does it run Linux?

  44. Only one way anything will be done about this by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's only one way that there'll be enough public outcry to cause solutions to be generated. The spammers will have to overplay their hands hugely. (Think Al Qaeda in Iraq - things are turning around over there at the grassroots level, mainly because AQI was chopping off people's heads and serving roasted children on platters to parents, and the public outcry has been enormous.)

    Everyone hates spam, but spam filtering techniques have progressed to the point where we're at an uneasy stalemate with spammers. Everyone hates DDoS attacks, but in truth, how many people have really been the victim of one, and how many companies with muscle are really vulnerable to a normal-sized one? What will have to happen is that some overambitious crook gets it in their head to attack a Google or a Level3 or an Amazon or a national military, and puts the muscle behind it to make it work. It'll take players of that sort of weight to induce ISPs to do what they should have been doing all this time - proactively detecting botnet traffic and suspending the account of any user, individual or corporation, participating in such botnets.

    I suppose we could also black hole enough of the world that the botnet controllers are forced into the reach of countries with tough computer anticrime resources, where they can be put behind bars and well out of the reach of any keyboard. I'm just not quite sure the Russians will stand for that....

    1. Re:Only one way anything will be done about this by kindbud · · Score: 1

      (Think Al Qaeda in Iraq - things are turning around over there at the grassroots level, mainly because AQI was chopping off people's heads and serving roasted children on platters to parents, and the public outcry has been enormous.)

      Embarassing anal leakage? Eating that fake Olestra stuff will do that to you and at the most inappropriate times, like in the middle of dinner, or during a totally un-political discussion. Best stick with the real thing, not that Faux stuff.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
  45. Is the 40 byte key attackable? by Qbertino · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm sorry, I'm probably sounding completely lame to those more firm in cryptography, but I have to ask:

    What would it take to attack the 40 byte key? Imagine a coordinated effort by the biggest 500 gouverment computing setups around the world. All the blue genes and whatnot pitching in. The Japanese sure have the one or other state-of-the-art mainframe supercomputer, and CERN, ESA, Nasa and few German weather services have a few aswell. There is tons of horsepower laying around idle at agencies, bureaus and the occasional school or corporation. If they all pitch in in a coordinated brute force attack *and* have Seti@Home do a few hours too it should be possible, no? Especially if one takes into account that at least the NSA has mathmatical functions that do some of the dirty work and speed up the process a little. They wouldn't even have to publish them.

    Wait, let's just check:

    255 to the power of 40 is rougly 1.8 times 10 to the power of 96 (Gulp!). Thats nearly Gogol. (10^100, what Google initially was supposed to be called, the guy registering the domain mixed up the letters...)
    Whatever.
    On it goes: For the sake of ease I'll roughly estimate that after the overhead has been dealt with, half of the top 500 (or a simular setup) will be doing optimized attacks on an average of 50 billion tries per second. An average state-of-the-art mid-range server has aprox. 20 GigaFLOPS, so I think that's fairly realistic for a large mainframe doing a multi-step operation.
    250 * 50 000 000 000 = 1.25*10^13 tries per second.

    *60*60*24 makes 1.08*10^18 per day. [Sidenote: This may be way off wack allready and total bollocks but it's fun actually]

    *7*52*5 makes 1.96*10^21. Oh, gee. This doesn't look to good. Where at it for 5 years and have only covered less than the fourth root of our total amount of keys. Even if we had 10 times the power it would make up only 1 percent of the keypace. Sheesh. We'll probably be cheaper off in handing out Linux PCs to everyone on the planet.

    It's no use. I gotta start working on my next project: Finding an explicit function for prime numbers. Hehehe. I could use the Million from the Fields Medal too. :-)

    Bottom line: My question/assumption was lame. But at least I found out myself. :-)

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Is the 40 byte key attackable? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It's more than that. We need figure out a new way to counter this threat. Even if we could break this key, the programmers could easily start over again with an 80 byte key. And we would be in the exact same position.

      --
      Qxe4
    2. Re:Is the 40 byte key attackable? by ymgve · · Score: 1

      Why try to attack the 40-byte key directly? Just find an infected PC, get a copy of the worm, reverse it, voila, there's your 40-bit key inside.

    3. Re:Is the 40 byte key attackable? by RMH101 · · Score: 1
      From Schneier's blog's comments:

      "Don't forget Storm's auto-dos on security researchers: If you have a program following the URLs in a large spam feed, and visit a URL more than X times in Y seconds, Storm respnods with an ?automatic? DDoS attack.

      Posted by: Nicholas Weaver at October 4, 2007 07:22 AM"

  46. Re-infect it how? by Gazzonyx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When a machine gets infected, the virus usually patches the system so that it own it without the intervention of other malware. These guys, unfortunately, aren't stupid; sadly, an infected computer is probably more patched than most (not yet) infected boxes. After you steal something, you tend to defend it so that it remains in your possession.

    --

    If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.

  47. As horrible as it is... by creativeHavoc · · Score: 1

    As horrible as it is, I cant help but find this really neat. Captivating. I hate it, but I love watching what it can do.

    --
    insight through the mind
  48. "not truly inventive"??? WTH? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the planet's largest ever privately controlled computer grid system. It is larger than google in terms of machines, and by the nature of its design it is about unkillable. It was most likely started by one *really* smart guy, as in uber scary smart, sitting in front of one machine at a console prompt. Think about that in your condescending leetness. And "just big"? This is the world's first Lex Luthor scale hack, because it is controllable, and has several practical (to them) attributes. It's a plan that suceeded, not just random vandalism like some other big ones like slammer. This is something the combined forces of all the other security gurus haven't been able to stop, or even get much of a handle on. It looks like to get rid of it, you would have to both identify and then simultaneously wipe/reformat every single infected machine *simultaneously*, and you say it isn't even all that inventive? Say what?

    1. Re:"not truly inventive"??? WTH? by kesuki · · Score: 1

      they make firewalls for a reason. rather than needing to wipe and reformat every infected machibne at once, you just kill all packet traffic to every infected machine at once and restore them without fancy network based reformat tools. you know with like a bootable dvd.

      i know the technology isnt as fancy as restoring every client from a master server with images of every machine on a multi terrabyte array.. but even a trained monkey can handle a bootable dvd with restoration tools akin to what gateway etc ship with all their systems.

      from what i understand about storm is that the network traffic is very easy to detect, especially in a corporate environment. so automatic firewalling to protect the rest of the network is easy to setup. which is probablly the main reason why storm has fallen so dramatically. corporations are using firewalls to stop infections before they loose the whole network. thus the main size of the botnet are non technical users with fast internet and fast pcs, who never realize theyre part of a botnet because they check email once or twice a week, maybe google a recipie once in a blue moon... nothing fancy.

  49. Re:Yes. Re:Are there legitimate reasons to do this by sjames · · Score: 1

    Having a short TTL is perfectly legitimate, and in a failover, you'll change a lot of records fast, but thst's not something you'll be doing every 5 minutes. It's also fairly common to set a small TTL just before switching to a new server.

    Then, as you say, there's those lame ISPs that seem to hold on to expired RRs for 5 days.

  50. Related topic by TT076743 · · Score: 1

    Below are URL related to this topic... http://www.pro-networks.org/forum/story98907.html SecureWorks researcher Joe Stewart has seen evidence that the massive Storm Worm botnet is being broken up into smaller networks, a surefire sign that the CPU power is up for sale to spammers and denial-of-service attackers. Stewart, a reverse engineering guru who has been tracking Storm Worm closely, says the latest variants of Storm are now using a 40-byte key to encrypt their Overnet/eDonkey peer-to-peer traffic. "This means that each node will only be able to communicate with nodes that use the same key. This effectively allows the Storm author to segment the Storm botnet into smaller networks. This could be a precursor to selling Storm to other spammers, as an end-to-end spam botnet system, complete with fast-flux DNS and hosting capabilities," Stewart said in an e-mail message. "If that's the case, we might see a lot more of Storm in the future," he warned. The malware attacks behind this botnet have been relentless all year, using a wide range of clever social engineering lures to trick Windows users into downloading executable files with rootkit components.

  51. Fast Flux is not invulnerable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fast Flux works by rapidly changing the DNS server(s) for a domain, but higher level DNS servers are needed to propagate the changes. There needs to be a procedure by which offending domains could have their NS glue records removed at the top level - a kind of "take down" order that could be obtained if proof can be shown that a domain name is used to run a Fast Flux botnet.

  52. Re:BZT! IAmSorryThankYouForPlayingNextContestantPL by X0563511 · · Score: 1

    It is surprising that it took the botnet people so long to discover public-key cryptography and signing.

    You don't even need to encrypt the traffic! Sign the messages and the bots obey. Obviously only the controller would have the private key, and all bots can have that key in addition to the key for their segment. Encrypting would make it harder to track/discover the network however.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  53. Re:Can it be that hard to catch whoever is behind by X0563511 · · Score: 1

    Assuming that it isn't a government itself in charge of the network. That would be one hell of an intelligence gathering network, not to mention the processing power and extreme survivability.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  54. Why is it beeing broken up and sold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) they have a bigger, badder upgrade ready
    2) need cash badly
    3) ???

    What other possibilities? They are doubtly getting a a good cash flow from from it already. Are the anti-botnet strategems so effective they're selling out while the price is high?

    If #1 is correct, do we have any clue what it will be? Are they splitting the botnet as a defensive measure before the roll the "upgrade?"

  55. Does it run ON GNU+Linux by Virgil+Tibbs · · Score: 1

    I think the question you were looking for was:
    Does it Run on GNU+Linux?
    with all the high profile of this worm it seems like it is a good way to set up your own VPN, especially if u can then rent half the botnet to attack the other half.

    --
    www.tdobson.net #### Dare to Dream #### blog.tdobson.net