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Sony Calls Current Blu-ray/HD DVD Format War a 'Stalemate
unger814 writes "Sony CEO Howard Stringer says that Blu-ray and HD DVD are currently in a 'stalemate' and is 'playing down the importance of the battle.' Stringer addressed a crowd at Manhattan's 92nd Street Y cultural center Thursday, where he said that 'it was a matter of prestige' which format wins. Stringer pointed to the switch by Paramount from producing movies in both formats to only HD DVD as a turning point. 'We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while, until Paramount changed sides,' Stringer said."
The first person to believe they have lost momentum is often the loser.
So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
Frosty piss!? Since the formats are roughly equal, then it is down to who does the dirtiest deals and knocks out their opponent with copious amounts of cash..
which is totally what she said
'We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while, until Paramount changed sides,'
Now what? Are you going to try to win by unlawful or dishonest tactics? Not sure why you wouldn't try to win on the merits, unless you know that your product isn't as good...
This comes down to greed, pure and simple. Rather than sitting down and coming to a standard acceptable industry-wide, these corporations decided to go it alone and try to beat the other guys in a format war. The result has been market confusion. I heard one NPR analyst estimate that this format war has reduced the market for next-gen DVDs by 90% - in other words, 90% of potential consumers stay away until the war has a clear winner. And there's no end in sight. I hope the format war continues on indefinitely, to teach companies a lesson not to do this in the future.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
In this war, there may not be a winner, but I guarantee the consumers will be the losers. From high priced product ( which may go down in time ) to DRM shens ( Explain to your mom why the new movie she just bought for 30 bucks doesn't work in her 600 dollar player ).
And like cattle, we line up to hand over our money.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
With all the formats out there, they all have one thing in common: they're all unpronounceable words. VHS and DVD. Try pronouncing them. I'm thinking HD DVD will eventually come out on top if the historical track record continues.
The game.
If Sony's calling it a stalemate, then HD-DVD is already ahead. If all Sony can manage with it's PR department is to call the situation a "stalemate," then HD-DVD likely ahead in real terms. Incidentally, I just conducted an informal, non-scientific poll here in the office. Of 20+ people, only two had heard of Blu-Ray. Half had heard of HD-DVD, but almost all were able to figure out what it was by the name alone. It makes me think that HD-DVD has an advantage just because of its name.
"We'll call it a draw"
~Black Knight
crazy dynamite monkey
I will not be getting either one until there is a clear winner. So a stalemate is a loss for both sides.
Test your net with Netalyzr
..fashion some kind of crude weapon to break the impasse.
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/11/hack-turns-ps3-.html
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
These things are still far to expensive. The jump between VHS quality and DVD quality was HUGE!! Not only did you start getting things like director's commentary and deleted scenes, but you got a much more "cinema like" experience. 5.1 dolby (in multiple languages if you need it), 16x9 Aspect ratio etc. etc. etc.
Blu-ray/hddvd don't offer THAT huge of a jump from DVD....certainly not enough of an improvement to justify their [still] astronomical prices, not to mention the limited selection of titles.
The first one to come out with a 30 dollar player will win the war.
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
Well - if Sony PR is calling it a stalemate, thats the equivalent of declaring HD-DVD the winner.
Did anyone expect otherwise though? The statement "Never Get Involved in a Land War in Asia" has pretty much been replaced with "Never Get Involved On The Sony Side Of A Format War". Seriously - Betamax, Mini Disc, Memory Stick, A-TRAC - Why would anyone expect Sony to come out aheard this time? They have no idea how to trumpet a format.
Despite what Howard Stringer says, it seems obvious that there is much more than just prestige on the line for Sony. Specifically, if Blu-Ray loses to HD-DVD, the PlayStation 3, which is already overly expensive, would lose it's secondary selling point - as a Blu-Ray player. This would be disastrous for Sony, as even more people would choose the 360, which can be made to play HD-DVDs for a relatively small premium over the basic package.
It should be illegal to say that freedom of speech should be limited.
Is the polite phrase for saying the other sucks.
In other words, they want to call the other side names, make claims the other sides technology is inferior, but can't do it and remain professional.
Right now, in the DVD war the only thing BluRay has over HD is Disney. Thats the most important line they have which seems to be limited to BluRay.
Since HD DVD players have recently hit $99 on special deals, hell even regular price $199 versions can come with up to TEN movies, its only a matter of time before BluRay is just another Sony product unique to Sony.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I really don't care which format wins. By the time I invest in an HD TV, I fully expect that the hybrid HD-DVD/ Blu-Ray players will be out and that is what I will buy. At that point, anyone who was an early adopter of wither of these technologies will probably pick one of them up as well. It's not like VHS vs Beta as in that case, the formats required tapes that were physically different in size. The discs don't have that limitation.
What a load of drivel. If this was true, then nobody would ever win a game of chess...yes, that would be exciting, wouldn't it.
Whatever. Just sell me a player that reads both formats.
Thanks. Everyone was wondering what the Sony-haters were thinking on this. Turns out they were thinking "I hate Sony". Who could have guessed?
Actually, it's even worse. If Blu-Ray loses, Blu-Ray players will stop being manufactured. Sony is relying on economies of scale to drive down the costs of Blu-Ray diodes and drives, which will make it even harder for them to make a profit on the PS3.
In the past 1.5 years they've already lost half the profit they made on the Playstation brand since 1997 (you can check it on their financial reports).
Combine that with the astronomical price cuts they're being forced to do, and you have the recipe for financial disaster at Sony's game division. There may never be a PS4 if things keep going the way they're going now.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
We'll call it a draw!
More
Are you suggesting chess could be even more exciting?!
We just bought our first HDTV, they then knocked the price of a Toshiba HD DVD player down to $169 if we bought it at the same time. I asked about Blu Ray, the salesman said they'd love to, but they aren't getting the incentives from the factories and wholesalers. Plus, Blu Ray has that awful problem that Beta had in the 80's, license fees that keep the price floor artificially high.
If you remember the VHS/Beta wars, the winning factor really wasn't quality, it was price. You could get the VHS machines cheaper, and the tapes were cheaper. Sony keeps biting their own tail.
If it continues down familiar Sony lines, HD DVD will be the dominant one, and Blu Ray will go the way of the Beta and MD.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
- Toshiba seems to be the only company making HD-DVD players ( Official HD-DVD site)
And just from my own observations at a few retailers in NY I see more Blu-ray movies than HD-DVDs on the shelves. I'm not buying a player until there's a clear winner, but if I had to buy soon (i.e. my DVD player dies) I'd pick a Blu-ray player.Blu-ray has, right now, a 50gb to 30gb advantage. That's pretty significant. Blu-ray has the potential for 100gb and hd-dvd might be able to get 50gb. Those extra gigs could be put towards quailty or quanity. Consumers might care, or they might not.
But if you want to point to something that blu-ray has that consumers will care about, it's the Sony catalog. It is huge. And the crown jewel is the entire James Bond collection. Joe Six-pack WILL want to see those on his player.
I'll probably hold the grudge for another five-ish years if they can keep their nose clean.
Storm
Summary of comments on "Blu-ray VS HD DVD" article #242175: - HD DVD is winning - No, Blu-ray is winning - HD DVD is cheaper - Blu-ray is better technology. - Toshiba pays studios for support - Sony makes rootkits - There are no winners - The consumer is the big loser This is the same list as for the 242174 previous "Blu-ray VS HD DVD" articles.
That way you will enjoy the biggest library of HD content available and if Blu-Ray goes titsup, you still have a console you can play. If HD-DVD goes titsup, though, standalone players will be worthless.
Well, knowing the inner workings of studio's accounting methods, everyone has lost vast sums of money, such that the format owners owe them billions of dollars, and only after they've paid up will they start to receive any royalties. Also any movies released for the past 30 years have had their accounting updated to reflect the cost of creating the new hi def discs, such that George Lucas, James Cameron, and Peter Jackson now owe them a combined total of 5 billion US.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Eh dude I had my first DVD player in 1998.
I bought a Sony TV and a PS3. Went to look for a new movie to pick up and they were $29.99 across the board for blu ray and hd-dvd.
B&M is for losers and the impatient. There's tons of HD discs available for $19.95 on amazon, and there's probably similar deals on other sites.
In fact, recently there have been sales as low as $15 for catalog titles.
Reason #1:
It's not SONY
Reason #2:
It was the first one I found a sub $200 player that I could hook up to my PC. (Xbox 360 HD DVD drive)
Reason #3:
It was the first that I found a usefull software for ripping and playback. (AnyDVD HD and PowerDVD 7)
Reason #4:
It's not SONY
Just as VHS beat out Beta, HD DVD has figured out the best way to win. If your product has lower prices on the player/hardware, then that is the one the mass public will buy. Just last week Best Buy and Walmart had HD DVD players on sell for $99.99 and I believe the cheapest Blu-ray is still around $250.00 or more. Quality will never win over ease of use and lower price.
If Sony really wants Blu-Ray to win, it will "bite the bullet" and sell players for $100 and recorders for $200 during the 2007 Christmas holiday shopping season and make up the loss in future volume. Since products have already shipped to stores, they will need to do a rebate. To avoid annoying potential customers, it will need to be an "in store instant rebate". Otherwise most people (these are the people that don't give a damn about technical issues) will buy what is cheapest, and that is now HD-DVD.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Me.
The rootkit was the straw that broke the camel's back, though. I bought a Sony home theater system around five years ago. The DVD changer in it broke, so I sent it in for warranty repair. It took months for them to fix it and get it back to me, and when they finally did, it was still broken. They obviously hadn't checked to make sure it was working before sending it back. So I returned it again, and they fixed it that time. Just before the warranty expired, the DVD changer broke yet again, so I send it back again. They fixed it and sent it back after another month or so. Then around a year later, one of the speaker ports screwed up, causing the center channel to emit a constant high-pitched whistle. I wasn't about to pay to get something fixed that would probably break again soon anyway, so I cut my losses and threw the thing away.
Then, of course, there was the whole PS3 debacle. Sony was so nauseatingly arrogant about the whole thing, acting as if paying $600 for a gaming console that was a thinly veiled attempt at foisting their Blu-ray format on everyone would be a privilege. They didn't take any competition seriously, from a console gaming or a next-gen HD format point of view, and they got their clocks cleaned. That was extremely satisfying to watch. The reason I hate Blu-ray isn't because of its technical merits or lack thereof, it's because of how it was pushed on the public.
From what I hear, Sony used to be a really kick-ass company. Maybe someday they will be again after they learn some humility and what their place in the food chain is (i.e. under the wants and needs of its customers). But for now, they've just done too much wrong and lost my respect.
Once content visually looks like the source, more bits aren't going to make it look any differnt. Not having enough bits is a big problem, but having more than enough is just burning capacity.
:).
Try making some JPEG exports in the 80-100 quality range, and look at the connection between file size and vistual quality. You'll not that there's a point where a higher quality doesn't look any different, but the file size keeps getting bigger and bigger.
Also, nothing is wrong with my eyes or my television, since I'm a professional compressionist who works with professional grade video displays
My video compression blog
Actually it can. The issue is (using the VC-1 Codec) it can only contain ~83 minutes of it, which discounts most "non-animated made for TV movies".
I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine.
Aren't these the lyrics to an NWA rap?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
stand alone http://www.tvpredictions.com/forum/comments.php?y=07&m=11&entry=entry071108-051750 the 90,000 recently announced for a week did not include online sales by amazon and others so its actually higher.
The number of comments on here about how there's only a format war cause both format owners are GREEDY, and it's causing consumer confusion, etc. amaze me.
This is the same crowd that goes APE SHIT over monopolies and proprietary formats, and goes on and on about how there should be more open competition. Well you got it! Unfortunately, sometimes with competition, there are, you know, competing solutions.
So yes, it's annoying and potentially confusing. But do you think that there would be $100 HD players if there wasn't such intense competition? Do you think the formats would get such big support if there wasn't intense pressure to roll out? Would you rather a company like sony have total dominance in the market? Yes, some titles are on one and some on the other.
Don't worry. Whoever wins, all the titles will eventually come out on that format, or dual-format players will be cheaper. In fact, I almost prefer the latter, as I actually like when there's multiple solutions to choose from.
Competition is GOOD. It will mean cheaper, better, and a wider variety of goods for consumers. Too often, companies cite "consumer confusion" to mask what they're really concerned about - consumer CHOICE. I'm just surprised to see that happening here.
Yet, from what I can tell, HD-DVD has the potential of being much cheaper than BR. (I realize this is like saying I have the potential to bone Natalie Portman, just saying.)
Two major factors:
First, licensing. While both are going to use AACS, I would guess that other licenses around HD-DVD would be cheaper. I could be completely wrong about that.
Second, DRM. HD-DVD can come without DRM, and some small studios are doing it. It means fewer features -- for example, no access to the 128 megs of flash memory that's on every player -- but it also saves you a licensing fee. BR not only requires AACS, they allow two additional standards: BD+ and BD-ROM Mark. The latter requires some data stored elsewhere on the disk -- I would guess this increases the cost of manufacturing.
From what I understand, in fact, it's relatively cheap to upgrade a standard DVD facility to support HD-DVD, and I know at least a few discs are coming that are literally two-sided -- one side DVD, one side HD. BR requires completely new equipment.
Also, the fact that HD-DVD has been $99 already suggests that it will win among non-gamers. The player will be cheaper, the discs are likely cheaper to produce (so can become cheaper), and the A2 is a damned good standard DVD player, too -- has a great upscaler, says my boss (who has a massive 1080p TV at home).
Now, the technical parts.
BR is the more flexible spec, it seems. Looking at a matrix between the two, on BR, secondary video and audio decoders (for picture-in-picture and, I guess, an overlayed audio commentary track), and Internet connectivity are all optional. It doesn't mention persistent storage, which is again, supported, but optional.
All of these things are mandatory on HD-DVD. Doesn't mean you need an Internet connection, but it means that every player must have an Ethernet port. Again, BR has more expensive players, but the cheapest ones aren't obligated to support any of these features.
The things that are mandatory on Blu-ray: more restrictions, and a bigger disc, always. By "more restrictions", there's the DRM, and also the region coding. (HD-DVDs are region-free.)
How many gamers are there, versus non-gamers who will want this? I've heard of stores that have stopped selling SD TVs, and for $99, with a decent upscaler, that A2 is not a bad SD DVD player. So for all the millions of Average Joes out there, who don't play games and don't care about the "format war", this is still a sensible upgrade if they're into DVDs at all.
Yes, they do, you just don't seem to care about it:
Well, first, the 300 HD-DVD appears to use more than a single layer for the main video alone. That's 15 gigs per layer. So "20 hours" could be made to fit, yes, but realistically, the space isn't entirely unused.
Second, even if you're convinced it is, HD-DVD, at least, supports red-laser discs. That means you can get an HD-DVD movie, with all the trimmings, on a dual-layer DVD disc, if it will fit.
As for the "PC-style navigation", that sounds like someone who hasn't used it. There are more than enough gimmicks to sell this concept, and remember, Joe User doesn't give a fuck about DRM; he didn't give a fuck about DRM when this was about DVD vs VHS and your argument might have been for Video CDs (but with MP
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