Slashdot Mirror


Privacy International Releases 2007 Report

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Privacy International has released their report on privacy for 2007, which includes a color-coded world map that highlights the countries with the best privacy laws, the privacy-hostile countries being in black. While many of the overall rankings may come as no surprise, it does highlight some of the more obscure abuses. For example, Venezuela requires your fingerprints just to get a phone and South Korea requires a government registration number linked to your identity before you can post on message boards. Makes you wonder who is Number One?"

179 comments

  1. bogus research by timmarhy · · Score: 0, Redundant
    I'm not buying into it, it looks like another "lets bash big companies" list. how is this related to big companys you say? take another look at the list, and you'll see all the countries singled out are where operations for large corporates are.

    Take australia where i live for example. We have many many privacy safeguards and acts, which mean anyone seeking private information requires your signature, or they simply won't get it. I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe as long as i took REASONABLE precautions, my private data is not safe.

    to qualify my statements, i used to work in the medical field where privacy is a huge issue.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:bogus research by Wazukkithemaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do believe Malaysia was tied with Russia and China for worst (each getting a 1.3 total score) ... Must be some type of industrialized/sweat shop Zoolanderian Dystopia.

      Or maybe you just made a groundless claim?

      --
      Live according to the Categorical Imperative. If the Categorical Imperative tells you not to live by it... ignore it
    2. Re:bogus research by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I will counter your "this data can't be accurate, because these nations have huge corporations in them which have privacy regulations to adhere to!" with "this data is entirely correct, precisely because they are home to huge corporations which sometimes have privacy regulations to adhere to, but often don't bother and are often not held responsible for it and at any rate have lobbiests in their employ to legislate for their advantage against the rights and privacy of the citizens of said country".

    3. Re:bogus research by five18pm · · Score: 1

      Pretty much all the Big Companies will have operations in all the countries in the report. I can tell for a fact that my company does. So I don't think the big companies argument holds water. Btw, the report has the criteria for measurement and the criteria are fairly objective.

    4. Re:bogus research by pionzypher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're probably referencing the gride below the map. Where things such as Constitutional Protection, Privacy Enforcement, Visual Surveillance and Government access to data are graded. Those items are governmental policy. Granted, your point is valid and probably related as the lobbyists influence policy decisions. The point being that this is supposed to represent policies and their enforcement by the government. If the government buckles to lobby and erodes freedoms, the result is the same as if they had taken the initiative themselves.

      *shrug*

      --
      I'll believe in corporations having personhood when Texas executes one... - advocate_one
    5. Re:bogus research by Das+Modell · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I've never particularly felt that my privacy is threatened in Finland, and I don't see anyone else complaining either. I don't know what the fuck this report is on about. I suspect these people value privacy with such singlemindedness that they ignore everything else, like security. The study even seems to be hinting that border surveillance is somehow wrong (1984 ALERT: CYPRUS IS MONITORING ITS BORDERS WITH CAMERAS!!11oneone). It's kind of hard for any government to keep the nation safe if they have no information about anything.

    6. Re:bogus research by timmarhy · · Score: 0

      I can only speak from experience as an australian resident and tell you giving australia the 2nd worst rating is a load of bullshit and to me calls the whole thing into question.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    7. Re:bogus research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm not buying into it, it looks like another "lets bash big companies" list. how is this related to big companys you say? take another look at the list, and you'll see all the countries singled out are where operations for large corporates are.

      Yeah, it's not like there are any companies in Germany or Italy or France.

      Take australia where i live for example. We have many many privacy safeguards and acts, which mean anyone seeking private information requires your signature, or they simply won't get it.

      Yeah, a 17-year-old international nonprofit watchdog group is probably not that reliable. Word-of-mouth that says everything is OK is good enough for me!

      I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe as long as i took REASONABLE precautions, my private data is not safe.

      Uh, isn't that the point? If everybody knew the privacy concerns, they wouldn't need to exist.
    8. Re:bogus research by Nazlfrag · · Score: 2, Informative

      * No right to privacy in federal constitution, though one territory now includes the right to privacy within its bill of rights

      So the ACT is the only place with an explicit right to privacy.

      * Comprehensive privacy laws at federal level and others within some states and territories, but there are broad exemptions that have precluded action by the privacy commissioner against small businesses and political parties; and does not meet international standards
      * Power of commissioner diminished because determinations are not legally binding

      We have good privacy laws and a commissioner, but there are many ways around these laws and the commissioner has no legal authority.

      * Numerous reports of data breaches, including at the taxation office, child support agency, and even amongst the police

      Typical of many contries, these seem the most serious breaches of our privacy, but are trumped by the next items.

      * High level of interception activity; no notification requirement to innocent participants to communications
      * Expanded surveillance powers in 2004

      Bet you didn't know about that one. Our new 'anti-terror' laws are full of little gems like this. Big Brother is watching you.

      * Movement towards electronic medical records but no opt-in protections as yet
      * De-identified medical data has been approved by the privacy commissioner for sale to pharmaceutical companies, despite protests

      Not a huge issue, obviously the data was made anonymous but still medical records are a very personal thing. I wouldn't want mine released to anyone but a doctor treating me no matter what anonymity was given.

      * Expanded financial surveillance and secret reporting
      * DNA collection only for serious crimes at the moment

      These seem like legitamate police controls, but it's still a clear privacy violation.

      * Made preliminary steps to secure passports in 2006
      * New government promised to abandon ID card plans; the office of access card has been closed but senior staff have moved to other department hinting at possible proposals to emerge

      Well that is a stretch, of course public servants get shuffled around when their department is abolished. It was damn close to being implemented though, and if it was I'm sure we would achieve the highest score on this chart.

      * Document verification service for use by public and private sector is being implemented despite lack of privacy considerations
      * Abusive case of visa revocation of individual related to suspects in UK anti-terrorism case

      It was a sorry day when we treated a relative of a suspect as a criminal. If my cousin in another country does something stupid, I don't want to be the one to pay the price.

      None of the above is bullshit, it is all very real. Just count ourselves lucky that the national ID card didn't come in this year or we would be rated black.

    9. Re:bogus research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't doubt that the concerns (both explicit and implied) that are voiced in this report are genuine.

      However, some of the details do not match my own experience living and working in several countries over the last few years.

      For example:

      Australia: Opening a bank account was dead easy; while I did have to produce identification, the forms of ID permitted were quite diverse, and did not have to be Australian. When I applied to become a resident there, which required police background checks in both Australia and the US (where I'm from), the Queensland police actually *refused* to take my fingerprints until I provided documentation showing that I really needed them to do so. I've never had an Australian driver licence, despite having lived there for over 5 years, and I rarely if ever had to produce any sort of ID except when hiring a car, taking money out of the bank, or renting a hotel room. Like the parent, I find the report's rating of Australia rather questionable.

      Sweden: The report states that state-issued ID is not mandatory, but the reality is that it's difficult or impossible to get by without it. You cannot work without a Swedish personnummer (ID number), and you cannot obtain any sort of government service or service which requires an account (e.g. utilities) without one. It extremely difficult (virtually impossible) to open an account (banking, utility) without an actual Swedish ID card or a Swedish citizen to vouch for you. You cannot pick up many types of mail and packages at the post office without a Swedish or EU-issued ID; not even my US passport containing a Swedish resident visa was sufficient for this.

      Thailand: It's pretty easy to get around with little or no ID there, especially if you've got cash and/or Thai friends in the right places.

    10. Re:bogus research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This statement says it all:
      [US] "Democratic safeguards tend to be strong but new Congress and political dynamics show that immigration and terrorism continue to leave politicians scared and without principle"

      Yep, It's just gibberish. I could just rewrite this to say the same thing about car accidents and seat belts. Or better, I could rewrite it to say "continued significant threat to life and property continue to leave politicians concerned that people will die and dedicated to prevention."

    11. Re:bogus research by timmarhy · · Score: 1
      "* Movement towards electronic medical records but no opt-in protections as yet * De-identified medical data has been approved by the privacy commissioner for sale to pharmaceutical companies, despite protests Not a huge issue, obviously the data was made anonymous but still medical records are a very personal thing. I wouldn't want mine released to anyone but a doctor treating me no matter what anonymity was given. * Expanded financial surveillance and secret reporting * DNA collection only for serious crimes at the moment These seem like legitamate police controls, but it's still a clear privacy violation. * Made preliminary steps to secure passports in 2006 * New government promised to abandon ID card plans; the office of access card has been closed but senior staff have moved to other department hinting at possible proposals to emerge Well that is a stretch, of course public servants get shuffled around when their department is abolished. It was damn close to being implemented though, and if it was I'm sure we would achieve the highest score on this chart. * Document verification service for use by public and private sector is being implemented despite lack of privacy considerations * Abusive case of visa revocation of individual related to suspects in UK anti-terrorism case It was a sorry day when we treated a relative of a suspect as a criminal. If my cousin in another country does something stupid, I don't want to be the one to pay the price." the vast majority of those points have either no privacy value or are totally resonible.

      the government is NOT selling your medical records to anyone, they are selling medical data, there is a very pointed difference in that without your name on it, the data isn't "you". electronic medical records have been the norm for a decade, that's a total none event.

      DNA collection for major crimes, omg wow welcome to 20th century technology. How this even made your list i don't know, as you state yourself it's a perfectly valid use of police power, and i would also note that at no point has your DNA been ruled private. so it's not a privacy issue.

      document verification, again how is this a privacy issue? if anything it makes things more private since if the document isn't verified as belonging to you, you don't get to see it and it helps keep everyone honest.

      the Dr hassen incident, the cops had good reason to detain him. you try and mislead everyone claiming he was only detained for being related to one of the london car bomber, but the facts are he was in communication with the bomber and some of it was very suspicous.

      your list seems long, but it's very unimpressive tackling non issues or making outright fake assertions.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    12. Re:bogus research by weighn · · Score: 1

      I can only speak from experience as an australian resident and tell you giving australia the 2nd worst rating is a load of bullshit and to me calls the whole thing into question. Privacy International (and the annual RSF Freedom of the Press Index for that matter) make international comparisons using many sources. Compare our (Australia's) legislative direction under the previous Federal government with the direction of (small-L) liberal democracies around the world and you may think differently...Electronic Frontiers is a good place to start :)
      --
      Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
    13. Re:bogus research by homer_s · · Score: 1

      I'm not buying their 'research' either.

      There is no way India is an 'extensive surveillance society' - not because the Indian govts care about privacy, but because there is no system in place that can be used to abuse privacy.
      No SSNs, no tax ids (for 99% of the people), no centralized health records (other than what the patient saves in her -paper- file), no technology or competence in govt to systematically tap phones, no institutions to come up with broad agendas to spy on people, etc.

      In short, Indians have a lot of privacy precisely because the govt does not care about privacy.

    14. Re:bogus research by Das+Modell · · Score: 1

      How the hell was this a flamebait? What the fuck...

    15. Re:bogus research by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      People that question the slow slide into Fascism must be monitored and suppressed!

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    16. Re:bogus research by Leadserg · · Score: 1

      LeadSerg.Com offers a large selection of active free stuff. Our freebies and free stuff are checked regularly to ensure that listed freebies are active. Also constantly adding new free stuff http://leadserg.com/

    17. Re:bogus research by pinkcarauction · · Score: 1

      You can't just look at the laws. If laws aren't enforced 'privacy' is notional only.

  2. No agenda here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The report looks a bit political to me. More America-bashing and moral equivalence.

  3. Better to be Number One than Number Two. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pee > Poop!

  4. Re:I see the US by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The thing that concerns me is that Americans tout "freedom" and "liberties" on a daily basis as part of often over-exaggerated patriotism or often an excuse to conduct military missions (to "protect our freedom"). Americans will often even forgive infringements and attacks on our "freedom" and "liberty" by citing the supposed fact that we have so much of both and can apparently thereby afford to let a little of it slip away here and there for causes they deem worthy.

    Yet for those who are aware of the world around them, it is easy to see great chunks of freedom, liberty and privacy being wrestled from our grasps on a daily basis. Usually without much defense on our part. We just hand it over. It's like being a passenger on an ocean liner and touting the safety and reliability of the vessel even as you wade across the submerged deck, up to your hips in salt water.

    What it all really means, is "I can still buy a $5 latte and my favorite sit-com with the offensively stereo-typed ethnic characters is still on television and I can still follow my favorite commercial sports team, so I *must* have an ass-load of freedom!".

  5. Hoho! USA and China in the same club! by bogaboga · · Score: 0

    Though I am inclined to classify this research as bogus, it's quite funny and intriguing that the USA, Britain, Russia and China are in the same club. I'd like to hear my president talk to China about privacy.

    1. Re:Hoho! USA and China in the same club! by taniwha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      they're all tagged 'endemic surveillance societies' - is the govt tapping phones without permission? watching your web traffic? got cameras all watching you in public? - that's all surveillance - seems right to me - I mean they have honking big machines in AT&T's backbones watching every packet and voice call that passes through

    2. Re:Hoho! USA and China in the same club! by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are a bit unfair to the U.S., however, in that they comment that other countries' judiciaries have recognized an implied limited right to privacy in their constitutions, but they don't mention that the U.S. Supremes have recognized one as well (it being the basis for Roe v. Wade, after all).

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    3. Re:Hoho! USA and China in the same club! by bogaboga · · Score: 1

      Let us talk about GITMO where the US has broken international law according to many. Shall we?

    4. Re:Hoho! USA and China in the same club! by bobstaff · · Score: 1

      I'm a Brit but fortunately I do not still live in the hell that Tony Blair created. I would love for he Chinese to question the right of the UK government to video the UK public the way they do.

    5. Re:Hoho! USA and China in the same club! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm... What do illegal detention and torture have to do with privacy?

    6. Re:Hoho! USA and China in the same club! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's talk about terrorist scum, who have attacked America and broken international law, according to many. Shall we?

  6. The Prisoner? by Broken+Toys · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What's with the "Prisoner" reference? The ceaseless spying on the occupants of the Village was an aspect of the series, not the overarching theme.

    I know I'm quibbling because the Prisoner reference could have been worked into the summary quite easily but asking "Who is Number One?" isn't relevant to the referenced article. This question will also set off flame wars in some circles.

    This is an observation, not a criticism, and a plea for more succinct summnary writing. The reference to the Prisoner is apt but could have been better phrased.

    1. Re:The Prisoner? by labyrinth · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the joke (which was not to strong in my humble opinion)- I think it was just meant to refer to the registration numbers in South Korea that the previous sentence mentioned

  7. No surprise for some countries by infernalman7 · · Score: 1

    Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia really needs to work on this since their governments all claimed that smart ID cards are so convenient that they can use it to replace ATMs and train tickets.

    1. Re:No surprise for some countries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      smart ID cards are so convenient that they can use it to replace ATMs
      ID cards that dispense cash? Very impressive.
    2. Re:No surprise for some countries by QuickFox · · Score: 1

      In those countries they have unusually large and heavy ID cards.

      --
      Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
  8. pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by reporter · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The map indicates that the USA, China, and Russia are "endemic surveillance societies" in 2007. Did the current ruler in Washington contribute to achieving this dubious distinction? Does anyone have information on how the USA scored in 2000 (before the current ruler took control of the executive branch)?

    Note that the European Union seems to have protected its citizens (from terrorism) without abridging basic civil rights.

    1. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 1, Troll

      Some of them protected their citizens by caving in to Islamic extremists rather than supporting their own citizen's freedom of speech.

    2. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's bullshit, but it's politically popular because it bashes Bush.

    3. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of them protected their citizens by caving in to Islamic extremists

      And you have some proof that citizens were protected by stripping them of their freedom? Maybe some public trials demonstrating that the government is, in fact, working to make their country a safer place?

    4. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You are kidding, right? Draw a controversial cartoon in most of the EU and see what happens. Start a web page about Nazi's and see what happens. Start a new church and see what happens.

    5. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by Foppel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, no. Privacy in Europe is deteriorating as well, especially in Germany and France over the last 2 years. It is just not as fast as in other countries because there are stronger oppositions and not everybody is as ready to jump into the 'Terror-thread' boat, mainly because we've been living with terror-threads for almost 40 years now.

      But the changes to privacy-law's done alone in the past year in Germany is an outrage. And did you know that the police can track _any_ vehicle on highways and most larger cities automatically now? It is just not officially used..

      Soon the Federal agencies will have access to internet and phone logs without the provider knowing or interfering.. now thats nice..

      So no, not all is well in the state of Denmark and its countries around it...

    6. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by infonography · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The map indicates that the USA, China, and Russia are "endemic surveillance societies" in 2007. Did the current ruler in Washington contribute to achieving this dubious distinction? Does anyone have information on how the USA scored in 2000 (before the current ruler took control of the executive branch)?

      9/11 was triple christmas for Bush-Cheney. Those who would disagree I have one word, ASHCROFT.


      Note that the European Union seems to have protected its citizens (from terrorism) without abridging basic civil rights.

      A lot of the former slave states from the USSR seem to have gone out of their way to be pro-Privacy. 7 ranked higher then the US and 3 for the top five were former soviet.

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    7. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      You are kidding, right? Draw a controversial cartoon in most of the EU and see what happens. Start a web page about Nazi's and see what happens. Start a new church and see what happens.

      How are any of the above privacy issues; the subject being discussed?

    8. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I concur. Although the sibling truthfully argues that these are not privacy issues, there surely are many privacy issues at stake in EU. I used to comfort myself that living in EU is a fortunate thing, at least with respect to privacy, in contrast to, e.g., the United States. Alas, in UK, you have cameras all around the country now, in Germany, they tried to make it possible for police to remotely hack into suspects' computers by means of law. And the German ban on "hacker" (security) tools? And in my country, nobody is sure who has in fact the access to all the phone call data which is required to be retained for one year or so by the service providers. And mandatory encryption key disclosure in UK, anyone? There are many more examples...

      ...even though I'm sure that nothing beats the open willingness of USA to kidnap foreign citizens to get them into their own jurisdiction and to try them for crimes that never happened (according to the respective laws of their home countries).

      I am depressed and a bit scared of where this world might be heading. You can never overestimate the importance of public awareness. Raise these issues whenever you can, if it necessary. Our state (but not our private life) is a res publica - a public matter - and these matters should be discussed in public. This report (TFA) is an exemplary act. I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but maybe this is our only hope against the will of the power-hungry clique in office.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by KitsuneSoftware · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure we have protected ourselves without abridging our freedoms. My country, the UK, is the big black-spot of Europe, and our liking of surveillance goes back at least as far as the days of the IRA. The other EU country famous for terrorists is Spain with ETA, and they don't look that amazing on that map.

      One question. Did any country get into the best group?

    10. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ``Note that the European Union seems to have protected its citizens (from terrorism) without abridging basic civil rights.''

      Seems, perhaps, but hasn't. We (I live in the EU) weren't very much of a target until we went along with the USA invading Afghanistan and Iraq. But we did go along, and we got train bombings in Madrid. Perhaps the bombings in London are related, too. So I wouldn't really say the EU has protected its citizens (but it's good to note here that the EU had little to do with anything; everything I'm talking about in this post was actually decided by individual member states).

      As for privacy, take into account that in many European countries, there wasn't much of that to begin with. I believe the Netherlands (where I live) is the country that spies on its citizens most, worldwide. This is not widely perceived as a problem, however. People here are far more trusting of the government than people in the USA. The government knows where I live. My Internet traffic is logged. Phones may be tracked and tapped; I don't think there is any need to get a warrant for that. Police can stop me and require me to show ID whenever they want to. There are cameras everywhere. Speeding on the highway? Picture taken; ticket is in the mail. Soon, they'll track cars to make us pay taxes depending on where we drove at what time.

      Privacy? What's that? Oh, you mean these laws that companies have to adhere to, where they have to make sure data doesn't fall into other company's hands...but they have to keep it around in case the government needs it. Yeah, those laws might be enforced. There certainly seem to be fewer problems with identity fraud here than in the USA.

      Don't get me wrong. Life in the EU is good. I am happy to live in the Netherlands. But let's not point and laugh at the USA before taking a look at ourselves.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    11. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      I wonder what the gray areas on that map are, the map seems to have a lot of it that is not filled in.

      Also (from personal experience) I'd say the canadian situation is (much) worse than it appears to be from the information in the article. For instance, insurance companies in Canada have access to law enforcement data and there is lots of racial profiling by the police in Canada.

    12. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > 9/11 was triple christmas for Bush-Cheney. Those who would disagree I have one word, ASHCROFT.

      Former attorney general John Ashcroft's declassified redemption narrative was the WTF revelation of aught-seven. It turns out the Patriot Act champion took a heroic stand against a version of president Bush's warrantless domestic surveillance program in 2004, resisting White House pressure even while lying in an intensive care unit bed. Bush, you'll recall, later assured America that he'd consulted with his AG before authorizing the program; technically that wasn't a lie -- he just left out the part where Ashcroft said "no," and Bush did it anyway.

      It is a measure of how far we've fallen that, by 2007, Ashcroft has turned out to be (relatively speaking) one of the good guys.

    13. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by infonography · · Score: 1
      True, after posting I found an impassioned plea from then senator Ashcroft against exactly the sort of thing the Patriot act proposed several years earlier. Course it was part of an anti-Clinton diatribe but then thats politics.

      Anybody else think that Hercules had the right idea about cleaning the stables of King Augeas

      he dug wide trenches to two rivers which flowed nearby. He turned the course of the rivers into the yard. The rivers rushed through the stables, flushing them out, and all the mess flowed out the hole in the wall on other side of the yard. I wonder how we are going to clean out the stables of King George?
      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    14. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by georgeav · · Score: 1

      A lot of the former slave states from the USSR seem to have gone out of their way to be pro-Privacy. 7 ranked higher then the US and 3 for the top five were former soviet. Not necessarily pro-privacy; but lack of money. What is cost to create a surveillance system similar to UK (how many cameras are there ? ) ? And concerning health records, they probably are still using paper files which, as long as they are not centralized, are pretty secure. About half of the categories require some big spendings to create the infrastructure.
    15. Re:pre-2001 USA Versus post-2001 USA by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Actually, no. Privacy in Europe is deteriorating as well, especially in Germany and France over the last 2 years. It is just not as fast as in other countries because there are stronger oppositions and not everybody is as ready to jump into the 'Terror-thread' boat, mainly because we've been living with terror-threads for almost 40 years now.

      Here in the UK we have been living with terror threats for decades as well. However, this doesn't seem to have stopped the Labour government from hyping the post-9/11 terror threats to push their agenda.

      When I was growing up, there were reasonably frequent IRA bombings, but the public were told that if terrorism changed the way we live then the terrorists have won. These days I would say that the terrorists have definitely won (for now). I'm just not sure who the terrorists are anymore - the people setting off bombs, or the government who are hyping up the threat and terrifying everyone in an effort to erode our civil liberties.

  9. Questionable statements by RickRussellTX · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Quoting TFA:

    case law on government searches has considered new technology

    Considered it to be... what?

    I think they probably meant to say "exempt", but given later misstatements, it's hard to say.

    # REAL-ID and biometric identification programs continue to spread without adequate oversight, research, and funding structures

    Huh? I thought REAL-ID was dead in the water. What does "spread" mean? Does it actually exist somewhere? Do they mean that more research and funding of REAL-ID would enhance our privacy against government surveillance? This statement is a jumble.

    # World leading in border surveillance, mandating trans-border data flows

    I call FUD on that. Prove that we have more per capita surveillance of border crossings than, say, Switzerland, Singapore, Norway or Israel.

    Heck, we have container ships full of every product imaginable unloading left and right, and the government doesn't have a clue what is in those things. More people cross the southern borders of the USA every year undetected than *live* in some of these countries. And our border with Canada often consists of a road sign saying "Welcome to the USA, hosers!"

    plans spread for 'rings of steel' around cities to monitor movements of individuals

    OK, now they are just making crap up. The only relevant reference I could find about "rings of steel" referred to British security around central London. Anybody who thinks that would work in the US has never seen a freeway or a cargo train.

    At best, this is a poorly edited article. At worst, it is deliberate misinformation.

    1. Re:Questionable statements by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      No, Real-ID is not dead in the water, much against the attempts by some enlightened states. If things don't drastically change, the citizens of those states will have to have passports to fly, since their state issued Drivers license will not meet the needs of federal identification at airports.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    2. Re:Questionable statements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will admit to being some what of a redneck and not real literate but I do have a current passport. It's stupid to not have one. One can never know when you might need to leave in a hurry someday. Washington can stuff Real ID.

    3. Re:Questionable statements by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Huh? I thought REAL-ID was dead in the water. Just because a handful of states have passed legislation say they won't implement real-id because it is an unfunded mandate does not mean it is anywhere near dead. Especially when there are another set of states that have passed legislation embracing it.

      More people cross the southern borders of the USA every year undetected than *live* in some of these countries. However, everyone who does cross the borders LEGALLY is subjected to all kinds of privacy invasions like fingerprinting. Even just those who transit through the country - without ever leaving the international terminals at the airports - are recorded. The result is, if you want to keep your privacy you have to break the law in order to do it.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:Questionable statements by grcumb · · Score: 1

      # World leading in border surveillance, mandating trans-border data flows

      I call FUD on that. Prove that we have more per capita surveillance of border crossings than, say, Switzerland, Singapore, Norway or Israel.

      Well, I haven't been to Norway or Israel, but in a lifetime of constant travel, the US is the only country that I know of that requires my photo and finger prints in order to enter it, or even to transit through it.

      ... Which, incidentally, is why I will no longer visit the US.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    5. Re:Questionable statements by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      REAL-ID is pretty much dead in the water.

      Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Washington and Maine have passed legislation opposing it.

      Similar bills are pending in Alaska, Massachusetts, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, Kentucky, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, Rhode Island, Washington, D.C., Wyoming and Vermont.

      That is roughly 80% of the US States.

      The other thing that seems to missing is the understanding of how the US Constitution works. Individual rights are natural, and cannot be legislated away. It Constitution only provides enablement of government activities; i.e. it defines when Habeas Corpus may be suspended, but does not list Habeas Corpus as a right because it is recognized as a natural right (and is much older than the Constitution). The Magna Carta was forced on the British Kings in large part because they were playing fast and loose with the Great Writ. Privacy is recognized the same way, and in several Supreme Court decisions it is invoked via the 9th amendment. There are some very important Supreme Court rulings based on it, including Roe v. Wade, Loving, Griswald and Eisenstadt. There is also recognition of the right to privacy in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th amendments.

      You would think that a study based in GB would recognize the importance of Common Law.

      This assessment also totally misses the fact that many US State Constitutions include an explicit right to privacy clause. These clause tend to codify the Supreme Court decisions mentioned above.

      This report to me to be a fairly weak bit of research.

    6. Re:Questionable statements by ydrol · · Score: 1

      Specifically "rings of Steel" are narrowed roads around "The City Of London" (referring to the Old City wich is about ONE square mile of likely terrorist targets), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LondonCity.png (see red bit) I think the police eyeball for vehicles carrying unusually heavy loads (suspension?) + a bit of security theatre. We have Freeways (Motorways (70mph), & dual Carriage Ways) over here in and around London too. They just dont extend into the central square mile (The old city). I hazard a guess that you also dont have freeways and cargo-trains running through most densly packed business centers in NYC ?

    7. Re:Questionable statements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't believe you understand the meaning of border surveillance. This refers to data borders, ie. backbone internet connections to the rest of the world. There is no doubt in my mind that the US government monitors these.

    8. Re:Questionable statements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      George! What you doing here on the Internet again? Go back to the Oval room now!
      Just a quick comment about your patriotic red-white-blue star-spangled-banner affirmation about freeways:
      Do you know that police cruisers from your brave highway patrol have license plate scanners that are able to scan your license plate and pinpoint your position on a citywide map based on gps location?
      So, we are BLACK as BLACK are our souls, and BLACK are the uniforms of the SS-Gestapo that is taking over our country thanks to all the politicians there in DC!
      At least we know that next year we will win this championship! We will be the country with the least privacy safeguards and Americans will still be pathetic patriotic losers even if European Union has left us behind economically 2 years ago, and our economy is crumbling down to pieces.
      So let's all cheer together for our GOP-Democrat team that is going to bring this championship of TYRANNY home! U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A!

    9. Re:Questionable statements by David_Shultz · · Score: 1

      All errors taken into account, the study has at least the following merit. It applies a consistent measure to various countries in various years, and that measure can plausibly be said to be a rough estimate (however biased and inflated) of privacy violations. We have, therefore, a useful measure for determining when respect for privacy is getting worse, if nothing else. Thus, the conclusion that privacy is decreasing worldwide is plausibly respectable.
       
      I challenge you to produce a better measure of privacy. When you do, I suspect that it would not be impossible to obtain access to the data used to generate this chart, and then to produce your own -more accurate- chart. Good luck!

    10. Re:Questionable statements by alan_dershowitz · · Score: 1

      I don't get their hard-on against REAL-ID anyway, even if it was passed. They call for national data retention policies, and REAL-ID provides national data retention policies. Real-ID requires a minimum level of security on the ID, which IMPROVES PROTECTION AGAINST IDENTITY THEFT which would seem, indirectly, to enhance your privacy. Real-ID requires the sharing of databases between states. OK they are worried about the detriment of centralized databases, but show me where any other country gets attacked for requiring a centralized database for drivers licenses. They don't.

    11. Re:Questionable statements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I call FUD on that. Prove that we have more per capita surveillance of border crossings than, say, Switzerland, Singapore, Norway or Israel.

      Norway does not record border-crossings from Norway to other Schengen countries. If you want to travel Norway -> Sweden, you can do so by car/by foot without being recorded. If you do it by air, you'll be in the air-carriers database. The definition of 'valid ID' at the airport is 'anything laminated with picture and name', including your membership-card in a private society with 5 members :P

      If you're from OUTSIDE the Schengen, our border-crossing surveilance is a tad bigger. You can arrive by boat though, if you can make it to our coastline. :) We do however not require fingerprints from tourists or immigrants. We do require fingerprints from asylum seekers.

    12. Re:Questionable statements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Despite what the government and airlines would have you believe you do not need any form of ID to fly in the US. The airlines are required to ask for ID, and if you cannot or will not produce any, designate you a "selectee" and take extra security measures, such as making sure that you and your baggage are on the same flight.

      If you think about it this makes sense. In California for example if you get arrested for DUI the police take your driver's license on the spot and give you an non-photo temporary license which you can use to drive while you contest the suspension. Does that mean you can't fly until you win your case or get a state ID? Of course not.

      The bottom line is if the law doesn't change, residents of states that don't comply with Real-ID won't have to worry about losing their luggage.

    13. Re:Questionable statements by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      Heck, we have container ships full of every product imaginable unloading left and right, and the government doesn't have a clue what is in those things.
      Well I can't speak for the USA, but in the UK, we have container ships unloading quite frequently too. And speaking from experience, every box gets get checked before it leaves the port. They have installed scanners for radio-actives and biologicals which the whole truck passes through, both inward and outward trips.
      Take Felixstowe for instance. I collected a 40' box one night and as I passed through the first security exit, I was pulled by customs, and taken to a secure area for a detailed search - why ? Because the box had shown elevated radiation levels. What was in the box ? Toilets. Yes, plain old ceramic toilets. Apparently anything that uses a high mineral content gives off higher than normal radioactive levels.
      So I would say that unless the USA are really behind the times, then they would have similar devices installed at all container ports too.
      Take a look at Felixstowe. Zoom in and pan to see the individual boxes, and bear in mind that they are stacked normally 5 high. Now calculate the total number of boxes, bearing in mind that probably ten trucks a minute leave this port, 24 hours a day. That's a lot of freight both in and out, but it's all checked. (BTW this is one of the trucks I was driving)
    14. Re:Questionable statements by Wylfing · · Score: 1

      I agree - at least in the case of the U.S. the summary contains a lot of "this might happen someday" statements. Surely there must be some real data somewhere, and not just someone's "plans"? I mean, there have to be people in the U.S. who plan to win every gold medal at the Olympics, but we don't say, right now, "the U.S. wins all gold medals."

      There is also the problem of conflating government and private-sector actions. A Las Vegas casino is under extraordinary surveillance, but I hardly consider that an invasion of my privacy. Under the terms of this report, however, each CCTV at the Bellagio erodes my personal freedoms somehow.

      Not to paint things with a big smiley face. I'm perfectly willing to believe the U.S. scores very poorly overall on privacy. This particular report, though, doesn't strike me as convincing.

      --
      Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
    15. Re:Questionable statements by mpe · · Score: 1

      If things don't drastically change, the citizens of those states will have to have passports to fly, since their state issued Drivers license will not meet the needs of federal identification at airports.

      Which most people flying would need anyway. The only situation where such a non passport US ID would make any sense at all is for a flight which will always be within US airspace under any situation possible. Even for those flights the simplist option would be for the US Federal Government to be issuing the whatever.

    16. Re:Questionable statements by mpe · · Score: 2

      Real-ID requires a minimum level of security on the ID,

      How exactly would this be the case.

      which IMPROVES PROTECTION AGAINST IDENTITY THEFT which would seem

      Except that cetralised and overloaded identity document concepts make "identity theft" considerably easier.

      Real-ID requires the sharing of databases between states. OK they are worried about the detriment of centralized databases, but show me where any other country gets attacked for requiring a centralized database for drivers licenses. They don't.

      The problem isn't if such a database is national or not. The problem is that using said database for anything unrelated to driving on public roads is a stupid idea. Which includes using drivers licences as identity documents. The worst that should possibly be able to happen if someone steals yours is that you have to take a driving test before you are allowed to drive again.

    17. Re:Questionable statements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The definition of 'valid ID' at the airport is 'anything laminated with picture and name', including your membership-card in a private society with 5 members :P

      Including a Chaser "insecurity pass"?

    18. Re:Questionable statements by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Japan does this now too, unfortunately.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    19. Re:Questionable statements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there name and picture in it? Then yes - probably :P

    20. Re:Questionable statements by RickRussellTX · · Score: 1

      However, everyone who does cross the borders LEGALLY is subjected to all kinds of privacy invasions like fingerprinting. Even just those who transit through the country - without ever leaving the international terminals at the airports - are recorded. The result is, if you want to keep your privacy you have to break the law in order to do it.

      I have to wonder why anyone would think this is a problem. Basic security theory: crunchy on the outside, soft on the inside. They take your fingerprints at the border precisely so can keep you out if you shouldn't be here. Since US international terminals are on US soil and planes fly over US territory, this does not seem outside the norm.

      Does anyone seriously consider it a "right to privacy" to cross a national border without identification? I haven't done a lot of international travel, but I had to send my passport with my photo and all my vitals to the Australian consulate to get a tourist visa back in 1994. This did not seem strange to me; if I'm going to enter their country, it seems reasonable to tell them who I am. I don't really expect privacy in that situation.

    21. Re:Questionable statements by alan_dershowitz · · Score: 1

      You're missing my point. If nearly every other country does this already, why is the USA being singled out for Real-ID when we didn't even pass it? To clarify on my minimum level of security comment, the standard dictates measures to ensure it is more difficult to forge, such as holograms and digitally encoded information. How this enhances security is that it's more difficult for someone to make a fake ID in your name and steal your identity.

    22. Re:Questionable statements by RickRussellTX · · Score: 1

      RTFA. That is not how "border surveillance" is defined in the Privacy International report. They are specifically referring to collection of data at the border entrance that is useful to and/or distributed to law enforcement.

      I'll repeat: I see no problem with this. If I enter another country where I have no records on file, the least I can do is tell them who I am and give them the opportunity to verify. "Trust but verify" is good security policy that need not have substantial privacy implications.

    23. Re:Questionable statements by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Individual rights are natural, and cannot be legislated away.

      No. Individual rights are presumed to be natural, and the constitution does not endow the feds with the authority to take them away. So far, so good.

      However, the feds have assumed the power to take them away, and have successfully done so for decades now. The only recourse with regard to abrogating this abuse of legislative authority is to take the law to the supreme court; but the supreme court has also come down on the side of the government and has ignored the constitution in various areas where it is quite specific, so this may well be ineffective.

      What you are doing here is conflating authority with power. The federal government has very little authority. However, it has great power, and consequently it uses force and the threat of force as a perfectly adequate substitute for legitimate authority.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    24. Re:Questionable statements by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Your presumption is guilty until proven innocent. It is my contention that the time you need to concern yourself with someone's identity, location, and actions becomes "now" when they commit a crime. Until then, we don't need to know who they are or any of the rest. This assumes risk; that's the nature of liberty. I'm OK with that.

      The problem with giving up liberty to obtain safety is that even if you gave every liberty you had up, you still wouldn't be safe. It is a game that you will lose, no matter what; and liberty has great value, in particular with regard to your own security, posterity, and safety, oddly enough.

      The politicians have you playing the game to the degree that you cannot see why it would be reasonable for you to enter some country without them knowing who you are. That's quite sad, really. The argument continues if you replace "some country" with any other public venue, right down to the town square. It really isn't any different, regardless of scale.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    25. Re:Questionable statements by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      The assumption of power in absence of authority is a good argument, but my criticism of the report is still valid becuase it does not recognize the fundamental structure of the Constitution when it criticizes the US for not having a specific privacy right enumerated in the Constitution.

  10. Consistently upholds human rights standards? by superash · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or can anyone see a single country with this rating?

    1. Re:Consistently upholds human rights standards? by TehZorroness · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's not you. Sucks. It doesn't have to be that way, though. If all of us slashdot users stand up together as a melitia, I'm sure we can secure an area about the size of my back yard as a new sovereign country.

    2. Re:Consistently upholds human rights standards? by Broken+scope · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      No we couldn't, we would spend to much time pointing out how you misspelled militia.

      Of course, I might just not know about other spellings of the word.

      --
      You mad
    3. Re:Consistently upholds human rights standards? by superash · · Score: 3, Funny

      No we couldn't, we would spend to much time pointing out ... to much time... or .... too much time ? ;)

    4. Re:Consistently upholds human rights standards? by pushing-robot · · Score: 1

      It's a new year, and I feel like coining something:

      Desmond's Law: Every correction must itself contain at least one error.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    5. Re:Consistently upholds human rights standards? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Is it just me or can anyone see a single country with this rating? Yes, it's called NoneOfTheAbove, but that country was inadvertently omitted from the report.
      Interestingly NoneOfTheAbove is also the name of the candidate I want to vote for in just about every election, but that candidate is inadvertently omitted from the ballot every time.
      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    6. Re:Consistently upholds human rights standards? by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      Flamebait? Jesus, talk about unappreciated humor, hell I even left something for people to complain about in my post.

      --
      You mad
  11. Telescreen International by aldheorte · · Score: 2, Funny

    It wouldn't hurt if all of you sitting in front of your notebooks, computers, and cellular phones with integrated cameras turned off could be bothered to wave at us once in awhile.

  12. Re:Bogus Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're not fooling me!

  13. Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners"! by ad454 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I cannot believe that this report does not include Japan's treatment legal "foreigners", including visitors, long term & permanent residents. Since late November, all of the these "foreigners" in Japan are now forced to be fingerprinted. Even worse, the corrupt Japanese government awarded the contract to collect the "foreigner" biometric data to the corrupt criminal organization Accenture (renamed Arthur Andersen) which did the falsified books for Enron and Worldcom. Accenture won the bid to collect the data for only (JPY)$100,000, approximately (USD)$900. You can bet that the Accenture paid the Japanese government a lot of money under the table in order to resell the biometric data to interested parties.

    Maybe other countries should start fingerprinting Japanese visitors and residents, and then sell the biometric data to those Nigerian scammers.

    This fingering of "foreigners" is even worse considering that Japan is the only first world nation not to have any anti-discrimination legislation, and legal "foreigners" in Japan are not even afforded even the mere basic of protection under the law. (Foreigners in Japan do have any Habeas Corpus and can be tortured in prison for up to 21 days. Testimony by foreigners in Japan has been ruled inadmissible in court, since there are not considered to be human by the Japanese ministry of Justice.)

  14. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Foreigners in Japan do have any Habeas Corpus and can be tortured in prison for up to 21 days.

    Meanwhile, citizens in the US also do not have any Habeas Corpus rights and can be made to disappear forever.

    Clearly, the Japanese are rank amateurs at this.

  15. Re:Bogus Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stuff those fracking myminicity links up your putrid goatse'd troll ass!

  16. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe they don't include it because they wrote about it earlier:
    http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-558619

    "PI leads coalition of organisations against Japanese Government plans for fingerprinting at border

    19/11/2007

    Today, in a coalition with 18 Japanese rights groups, Privacy International delivered a letter to the Japanese Minister of Justice to protest against the implementation of a fingerprinting system and face-scanning system at its borders. All visitors and many foreign residents to Japan will be fingerprinted under this plan. Our letter to the Minister is endorsed by 68 organisations from 30 countries."

  17. Re:I see the US by operagost · · Score: 0, Troll

    It's a shame that your post doesn't say anything "new" or "insightful", or offer any "solutions" to the "problems" you "suggest".

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  18. Re: Australia by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1


    Let's see what Austrailia has been up to this week:

    "The Australian government is mandating the creation of 'clean' internet feeds", but you also "scrapped the proposed Australian universal ID 'Access Card'."

    So far, that's a draw.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  19. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They just want to be cool and copy what US does.

  20. Re: Budgieton Minicity by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Okay, so there are about five minicity proponents who troll here.

    Yet there isn't even a direct payoff. What happens if someone turns around and puts monetary incentives on these things?

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  21. Re:I see the US by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His point (which seems to have escaped you) is that many Americans aren't capable of even perceiving the problem.

    And that's a problem.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  22. Re: Holdenville Minicity by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1


    There's #2 of 5...

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  23. Re: Minicity by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1


    I figured out a little about how to hijack those cities. Would you like your own with an instant population?

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  24. Germany is red... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe even pink as of today. But yeah, in 2007 it was fairly good here.
    Happy new year.

  25. Shhhh, I'm huntin Trolls by Smordnys+s'regrepsA · · Score: 1

    Only if we're allowed to delete the population. That would sate my blood lust, and I'm sure knowing that us bored nerds can easily wreck their game would discourage the 5 or 6 minicities that keep posting here.

    --
    Just -1, Troll talking to another.
  26. What I'd like to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    American athletes at next summer's Olympics in China wearing Statues of Liberty on their uniforms.

    American athletes handing out Statute of Liberty souvenirs to their Chinese competitors.

    Those souvenirs marked, "Remember Tienemann Square" on their bases, as a talking point to begin some unrestricted dialogue.

    And one or two or a hundred of the winning Chinese athletes hoisting the Statue of Liberty souvenir, or an American shirt they traded for emblazoned with her blessed visage, while on the medal receiving stand.

    That's what I'd like to see.

    PS, hey France, thanks for the glorious gift. Wish we were worthier of it, but hey, some of us are trying.

    1. Re:What I'd like to see by p0tat03 · · Score: 1

      Why statues of liberty? Why not a more universal symbol of freedom, as opposed to an entirely American one?

    2. Re:What I'd like to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, my point exactly, why the heck would they know what the statue of liberty is or stand for?

    3. Re:What I'd like to see by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah like, the middle finger salute, the bird. Works for me.

    4. Re:What I'd like to see by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I think the Chinese would recognize it.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    5. Re:What I'd like to see by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Because "Freddy the Freedom Ferret" never really caught on.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:What I'd like to see by whit3 · · Score: 1

      How is this 'entirely American'?

      The statue is French, depicts the first of the trio 'Liberte, egalite, fraternite'
      from the French revolution.

      Maybe it's a typo, you meant to say it's 'entirely copper'?

    7. Re:What I'd like to see by p0tat03 · · Score: 1

      The statue may have been a gift from France, but it is a cultural symbol of America, not of the world. Much like how Wal Mart is an entirely American creation, but most of their products come from China.

  27. Re:I see the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The dieing call of the conspiracy theorist...

  28. B.S. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This pisses me off as I see friends and family continue to throw their personal information into the shithole that is MySpace when there are better alternatives available. This privacy group spouts loads of uninformed and ignorant crap. This was clear when they placed Facebook lower than MySpace in their "rankings".

    http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/internet/interimrankings.pdf

    Regardless of what you think of Facebook's controversial features... even YEARS ago, Facebook has offered super granular access control to view different parts of a profile. Non-friends by default have never had access to see a profile unless they were in the same network (which has been optional, too)

    To an extent (flame on) - Facebook is to linux as MySpace as to Windows. Facebook usees access controls enabled for privacy out of the box. On the other hand, MySpace is a default privacy trash can. If you want to use a social network (you don't have to) then use one that respects your need to adjust privacy.

    You'll also notice that MySpace's privacy controls is a single checkbox, which denies randoms from seeing your stuff. That's all you get for privacy.

    Facebook allows you to narrow it down further into limited profiles, or even further with temporary access to a shorter profile through the poke feature. This has been around for YEARS at Facebook. Now tell me, why didn't Privacy International notice the drastic, overwhelming privacy features (though underused) Facebook offers it's users? BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LOOK. It makes you ask, WHO ARE THESE GUYS? I would have LOVED to use these rankings as anti-MySpace ammo... and look what they give me.

    Who can we trust to watch the watchmen? One that isn't sponsored by Fox news, please.

    1. Re:B.S. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you have to take into account what the company itself can do with the information. Just like on unix, inter-user privacy controls are no use against the admins - i.e. Facebook themselves. And who controls Facebook? Microsoft, that's who! Trusting microsoft to respect your privacy has been shown historically to be... dumb.

  29. Why aren't there any countries in blue?? by listen_to_blogs · · Score: 0

    I am surprised that there are no countries in blue(consistently upholds human right standards). listen_to_slashdot

  30. Re: Australia by timmarhy · · Score: 1
    the free internet filtering is NOT MANDATORY. you have to ask for it when you sign up with your ISP.

    compared to a federal id card with biometeric data on it i'd say we are more then better off this week. i suggest you learn to read more then the slpashy headlines.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  31. Re:I see the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    His point (which seems to have escaped you) is that many Americans aren't capable of even perceiving the problem.

    And that's a problem.

    Another point is that many Americans are capable of perceiving problems where there are not any problems.

    And that too is a problem.
  32. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

    corrupt criminal organization Accenture (renamed Arthur Andersen)
    Nope. Accenture was formerly named Andersen Consulting
    which did the falsified books for Enron and Worldcom.
    Nope. That was Arthur Andersen. Two different companies.

  33. Totally Misreads US Constitution by tjstork · · Score: 1

    The organization completely misreads the US Constitution and is also factually incorrect.

    # No right to privacy in constitution, though search and seizure protections exist in 4th Amendment; case law on government searches has considered new technology No comprehensive privacy law, many sectoral laws; though tort of privacy

    1) The US Constitution is NOT a collection of the rights of citizens, ala a French Declaration of the Rights of Man. Rather the US Constitution is a declaration of the rights of government. As it was stated in our own Declaration of Independence "We are endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights". Thus, if it is not in the US Constitution, it is legal for citizens (with respect to the federal government), and illegal for the government. The Bill of Rights is thus an affirmation of that idea, not the document that "gives us rights". Our rights are inalienable.

    2) The concept of a right to privacy underlies Roe V Wade in the USA.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Totally Misreads US Constitution by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      No right is "inalienable." That's a bunch a flowery language horseshit. Any dictator can use flowery language. All that really matters is how the government actually ACTS, not what it SAYS.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Totally Misreads US Constitution by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      No right is "inalienable."

      "Inalienable" as used in the founding documents meant "yours, as endowed by your mere existence as a human, without regard to whether anyone actually bothers to defend it."

      Something of a misnomer, then, given the presence of the word 'able' in 'inalienable.' But there you go. But you're fundamentally correct; the rights we have essentially only boil down to the ones we're willing to defend, and if my observations of most Americans is correct, they wouldn't defend ANY ONE of their rights if someone shoved them in a pit for the rest of their lives. Oh, except the right to watch American Idol. And listen to their iPod. And eat McDonald's. Don't take away McDonald's.
      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    3. Re:Totally Misreads US Constitution by tjstork · · Score: 1

      ng of a misnomer, then, given the presence of the word 'able' in 'inalienable.' But there you go. But you're fundamentally correct; the rights we have essentially only boil down to the ones we're willing to defend, and if my observations of most Americans is correct, they wouldn't defend ANY ONE of their rights if someone shoved them in a pit for the rest of their lives.

      Well, fortunately, your observations are not correct. Americans defend their right to freedom of expression, freedom of religion, right to keep and bear arms, right to private property and right to do whatever they want with that property.

      --
      This is my sig.
    4. Re:Totally Misreads US Constitution by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      Well, fortunately, your observations are not correct. Americans defend their right to freedom of expression, freedom of religion, right to keep and bear arms, right to private property and right to do whatever they want with that property.

      No, "Americans" don't. Small groups of Americans do, and VERY small groups at that, with perhaps the exception of the NRA, which has 4.3 million members. Talk to your average American, one not actively part of these groups, and they consider these groups to be troublemakers who are just stirring up trouble for no reason and they see no purpose to the disagreements and legal battles these groups get into.

      Most of us are born into a world where overwhelmingly concentrated government power has ruled our entire lives, and we find it difficult if not impossible to imagine a world without it.
      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
  34. Re: Australia by Nocterro · · Score: 1

    No, it's not mandatory, but it is going however to be an "opt-out" system. And to be honest, I'd be stunned if you can opt out entirely. Once filtering is in place, the government could never afford to let things like child pornography not be filtered regardless.
    Once the filtering commences it's all downhill. We already hold internally published material to standards set by the ACMA (no publishing porn here!) so how long do you really think it's going to take before the government is pushed to classify and filter all content in line with ACMA guidelines?

    Gentlemen, start your TOR routers.

    --
    [clever sig]
  35. Re:I see the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > The thing that concerns me is that Americans tout "freedom" and "liberties" on a daily basis as part of often over-exaggerated patriotism or often an excuse to conduct military missions (to "protect our freedom"). Americans will often even forgive infringements and attacks on our "freedom" and "liberty" by citing the supposed fact that we have so much of both

    Agreed on one account and disagreed on the other.

    Agreed that we are letting our freedom slip away, one after another after another. It's getting worse over time.

    But we've still got it pretty good compared to many places. I can still legally own a firearm, even though my government would prefer that I not - this is a KEY freedom I wouldn't get in most nations, and in fact you can argue, it's the basis for most of the rest. I can still legally use strong encryption and cannot be compelled to turn over the keys, unlike many other first world nations. And so forth - this list is bigger than most people seem to think.

    It's not all roses, and Americans do seem very eager to willingly give up the freedoms they DO have. But the USA still has freedoms that very few other places do. Even though I don't *want* a firearm, and have no intention of ever owning one, I'm simply not willing to live in a nation that would take that away from me. When you get right down to it, *all* freedoms come from the threat of force.

  36. Re:I see the US by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The value of "freedom" as an american ideal was a great thing and shaped the very foundations of our government. That value is long since dead. Early Americans understood the value of personal freedom. They were very diverse and many of them were immigrants from oppressive cultures. Even the strict puritans espoused a policy of letting those outside their community make choices they disapproved of.

    Here's an experiment. Go find a few normal people and have a conversation with them about a few political topics. Notice that no matter what their political affiliation, the vast majority of them think it is just and ethical for them to pass laws to take choices away from others, even when those choices do not affect anyone else. Be it hunting bans or gay marriage or prohibiting heroin, nearly everyone is in favor of passing at least one law to tell other people how to live their lives. Ask them if they value freedom and they'll tell you they do, but ask them specifics and you'll see they don't mean it. They want everyone to be free so long as they don't make choices they disapprove of.

    Freedom is the right of others to make choices you think are wrong and supporting freedom means supporting the right of others to make those wrong choices. Unless that value becomes important to Americans, our civil rights will continue to erode from both ends of the political spectrum and both major political parties.

  37. Re: Australia by timmarhy · · Score: 1
    Um never, because the ACMA only applies to things published in australia as you just said yourself.

    yes i agree this filtering is a retarded expensive waste of time, typical of everything you can expect from a labor government, but it is NOT anywhere near as bad as a federal ID card with your life on it.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  38. Re: Australia by Gandalf_Greyhame · · Score: 1

    The Australian government (under liberal, about 5-7 years ago) tried to filter the internet before. It was to 'bribe' a senator from Tasmania, Brian Harradine (I have probably spelled that incorrectly) so that he would not oppose the introduction of a government policy (I believe that it was the GST if my memory serves me correctly, but I could be wrong. I know that he opposed it anyway)

    Now we have another government, the labour party, trying to filter the internet. Which senator are they trying to bribe, and what is the piece of policy that they want to get through? That is what I want to know (I know, I sound like I am wearing a tin-foil hat, but just because I am paranoid, it doesn't mean that they aren't out to get me)

    --
    I am not stubborn. I am right!
  39. Re: Australia by Nocterro · · Score: 2, Insightful
    the ACMA only applies to things published in australia

    No argument there, but that's not my point. Sorry if I didn't make my theory clear, but I meant that content would be classified in line with ACMA guidelines. We see something similar with the laws banning the importation of pornography. reference
    When you get right down to it, access to externally published material over the net is an oddity; all content imported by any other means is either banned or subject to classification/censorship. I honestly don't believe that if we have this filtering system set up the government will be able to resist attempting to bring content published over the net in line with the rest of our censorship system. In short, while the federal ID card certainly had some issues (RFID) and arguments in favor and against, filtering provides nothing of value other than censorship. Once it's in place and demonstrated to be working at least somewhat, it's guaranteed to be extended to bring it in line with our other media classification/censorship. And from there it's most likely to be enforced by legislative and not technical means.

    --
    [clever sig]
  40. Incorrect Data - UK Identity Cards by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 2, Informative

    The UK does not have ID Cards.
    Ok, the Government wants to introduce them but AFAIK, the bill to introduce them has not been passed by Parliament and received Royal Ascent( The Queen's Signature )
    There are several Political Parties which are totally opposed to the introduction of ID Cards.

    Finally, given the fiasco that normally accompanies government IT Projects, I don't expect to see them introduced before 2020 anyway.

    --
    I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
    1. Re:Incorrect Data - UK Identity Cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      I don't expect to see them introduced before 2020 anyway.

      By which time who will oppose them? After all, my kid's school had every child fingerprinted by an outside catering contractor with no accountability as to how that data might be used in future. Link

      Registration of fingerprints is quick and easy. The software turns the fingerprint image into an alpha numeric code then discards the fingerprint. No image is left on the system and the code can not be reinterpreted back into a fingerprint.

      Of course it can't, it's a hash value. However, a given fingerprint will generate the same hash when my child is 90 years old.
  41. Protection vs Privacy in the EU by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2, Funny

    Note that the European Union seems to have protected its citizens... ...from privacy.
    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  42. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by mutende · · Score: 2, Informative

    I cannot believe that this report does not include Japan's treatment legal "foreigners", including visitors, long term & permanent residents.
    Isn't this included in the summary?

    "Only second country to implement vast biometric collection at borders."
    --
    Unselfish actions pay back better
  43. Looking at Africa on the map by Melbourne+Pete · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm sure the people of Zimbabwe will be relieved to know they live in a country that "consistently upholds human rights standards." Seriously, who put this thing together? At least be honest and have a "we don't have a clue" color.

    1. Re:Looking at Africa on the map by Cederic · · Score: 1


      On my monitor there's a definite difference between the grey of Africa (and many countries in South America, Asia and other parts of the world) and the blue (cyan?) of "Consistently upholds etc".

      So I think they do have a "we don't have a clue" colour, it's grey, and it's being used.

  44. Re:I see the US by atlep · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >What it all really means, is "I can still buy a $5 latte and my favorite sit-com with the offensively stereo-typed ethnic characters is still on television and I can still follow my favorite commercial sports team, so I *must* have an ass-load of freedom!".

    Personally I find this offensively stereo-typing americans.

  45. Re:I see the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    This "firearms" argument is silly. If the government wanted to violently apprehend it's own people (or conversely, defend itself from a revolution), a civilian run militia isn't going to do it. Civilians can't buy planes (fighters and bombers), heavily-armed/armoured helicopters, nerve gas (or similar), nuclear weapons, bombs, tanks, automatic weaponry; all of which the government can and would use if push came to shove. Even ignoring such massive technological advantage, the military also has more coordination and training than any militia would, so even if the weapons were even, the militia would still likely lose. If you think a firearm would protect you from the military in a "martial law" scenario, then you're just kidding yourself - you'd do just as well with a machete (that is, you'd make no effect). This argument also applied to an invading enemy; if the military couldn't keep them out of the country, what chance do you and your gran have? Also, if the government really needed to know what was in that encrypted file, they have the computing resources to brute-force the key - so like firearms, it's a placebo of sorts.

    The problem is that because people believe that a firearm WOULD protect them, they're willing to sacrifice freedoms ("well they can't go too far, I've got my GUN"). Personally, I think the danger of letting just anyone own a gun is far worse than the unlikely scenario of the government "taking over" by force.
  46. Ooh, I know this one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Makes you wonder who is Number One?

    USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

  47. Re:I see the US by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ``What it all really means, is "I can still buy a $5 latte and my favorite sit-com with the offensively stereo-typed ethnic characters is still on television and I can still follow my favorite commercial sports team, ...''

    Well, actually, if that's all you care about, isn't that all that matters? I mean, life can be good even without freedom and democracy.

    I know, I know. Checks on the power of government are supposed to protect us against the government making our lives miserable. But how effective are they, really? If the government crosses the line, who is going to stop them? What if there is a coup? What if the country is at war? What if there is so much misinformation that almost nobody knows what is really happening? What if it's not the government making people's lives miserable, but other groups?

    Do people actually tend to be happier in countries that have good privacy checks in place?

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  48. Re:I see the US by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Funny

    How do you know? Maybe you're perceiving problems where there are not any problems too?

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  49. Politics is a fickle beast by gzunk · · Score: 1

    And you think that the Conservatives will still continue to oppose id cards when they get into power?

    1. Re:Politics is a fickle beast by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 1

      I think they will but probably only on the cost of the whole thing.
      ALL gov IT projects go wildly over budget and timescale. This is due ( on my own personal experience) what the US call 'mission creep' or the 'can you add this bit of functionality' repeated n times over (where n is a big number)
      Things which are 'nice to have' suddenly become mandatory and essential to the whole project. some jumped up civil servant has their own pet project which needs x,y & z. These get factored in to the original project. then they need o,p & q and think this must be added a no cost or time implications and refuse to believe otherwise.

      --
      I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
  50. Greece leads the EU on privacy? by slymole · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yeah, right: Greece leads the EU on privacy, in a year that saw the board of the independent Privacy Authority resigning over rampant and unconstitutional CCTV use by the Justice Department. Incidentally, that happened just before the Greek PA was to investigate the 2005 wiretapping scandal that made international headlines. What kind of kool-aid are they taking over there in Privacy Int'l? The sad truth is that privacy took a nose dive this year across the whole of the EU, with the Prum, VIS, PNR and Swift data accords being ratified and there weren't any silver linings.

    --
    "We don't stop playing games because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing games.."
  51. The UK and China don't surprise me at all by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Though I am inclined to classify this research as bogus, it's quite funny and intriguing that the USA, Britain, Russia and China are in the same club.

    Actually, speaking as someone from the UK, I think it's just sad... and entirely, objectively accurate. Our modern surveillance state/database society in the UK would make any dictator proud.

    We are rapidly moving towards a state where the government monitors, inter alia,

    • more CCTV cameras per capita of the population than any other country on the planet,
    • ANPR cameras on all our major roads, and
    • all Internet use.

    The government is essentially compiling databases, to be kept near enough forever, of:

    • several biometric identifiers for everyone in the country,
    • the movements of everyone in the country, and
    • the communications and associations of everyone in the country,

    in addition to all the usual financial and employment records, of course.

    The only difference between the UK and certain more infamous countries is that, at least until recently, the serious damage had been only incidental and affecting a few people, while certain other governments more routinely abuse the information they collect. Then again, see my current sig for how fast the UK government is trying to catch up — and remember that's just the biggest story recently, not the only one.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  52. Facebook by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow, you're really kind to Facebook.

    Have you also noticed that their entire modus operandi is basically to get friends to provide information about each other? And that if you've ever created an account there, even if you deactivate it, they still keep your personal information around indefinitely and allow people to continue doing things like tagging you in photos?

    I don't know how anyone rational can view services like Facebook as not being a serious threat to privacy.

    Of course, I'm about as likely to get sympathy for that view on Slashdot as I am when I say I think Google is the greatest threat to privacy in the history of humanity. That doesn't make either statement any less true, but there you go.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you also noticed that their entire modus operandi is basically to get friends to provide information about each other?


      did you notice that it's a social networking site? don't think so!
    2. Re:Facebook by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I believe the point our AC friend is missing is that on most social networking sites, it's you who supply the information about yourself. On Facebook, more often than not, it's someone else, as the site actively encourages everyone to do so.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  53. Re: Budgieton Minicity by jacquesm · · Score: 1

    there is plenty of monetary incentive. Not for the trolls though, but the myminicity.com folks are cleaning up on this.

    What I'm worried about is the 200 copycats that will give fools gold to their users in return for harassment of the rest of the online population.

    The days of anonymous posting will be over soon if this trend continues, and that gets me because some of the best stuff on /. is sent in by anonymous cowards.

  54. If only it were incorrect... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

    The UK does not have ID Cards. Ok, the Government wants to introduce them but AFAIK, the bill to introduce them has not been passed by Parliament and received Royal Ascent( The Queen's Signature )

    Unfortunately, you are mistaken. The Identity Cards Act received royal assent, becoming law, on 30 March 2006.

    The first legal battle has already been lost. Now it's down to either electing someone to repeal the law before it really takes hold, or sufficient civil disobedience to undermine the law. Fortunately, both of those events are quite likely.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  55. Privacy by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Is so 19th century. This is 2008, you need to embrace your government, they are doing this for your own good you know. Privacy only breeds insecurity.

    You don't want to be considered a subserve with all this talk of 'personal freedoms' do you?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  56. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They are two different companies now, but until 1989 they were one, and in a group until 2000. It stands to reason that shareholders of one will even now (or until Enron anyway) be shareholders of the other. A company is only the sum of those who control it.

    This section from wikpedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Andersen#Andersen_Consulting_and_Accenture is quite brief, and explains what happened a bit better.

  57. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by russotto · · Score: 1

    While Accenture was once under the Arthur Andersen umbrella, they are not the organization which did the Enron books. In fact, they, prior to the debacle, sued to break away from Arthur Andersen and lost the (at the time prestigious) name in the process. This later turned out to be a win/win for them.

  58. Re:I see the US by Twisted+Willie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Freedom is the right of others to make choices you think are wrong and supporting freedom means supporting the right of others to make those wrong choices

    I'd add something like 'as long as no harm is done' to that. You know, just to avoid giving people the 'freedom' to kill others for example. The big question is where to draw the line. Does a same sex marriage harm anyone? Does the right to carry arms harm anyone? Does it harm anyone if the government isn't allowed to eavesdrop on your communications?

    This is why it's vital to have a good constitution in any form of democracy, to ensure that a line is drawn that cannot be crossed by regular laws. Unfortunately, either a lot of constitutions aren't good enough, or a lot of governments are working around them.

    You are right though about the value of freedom being dead. I'm from The Netherlands, and I remember that we used to be seen as a tolerant, freedom loving nation full of strange people. I feel we have a decent constitution, yet our governments have managed to put us firmly in the red category. Sure, we can still smoke weed, have abortions and euthanize ourselves, but that's only a part of freedom. Unfortunately, not many people seem to realize that. Give the people bread and games, and they'll be happy.

  59. Actually, this makes me wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...who the hell is "Privacy International"?

  60. You are correct. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Submitter here. Yeah, it was a weak joke, but you got it.

    At first, I wanted to find a way to work in a reference to Number Six in relation to the government registration number, but that was even weaker.

    At least this time people aren't trying to complain that I don't believe that copyright law exists (!?) instead of realizing that I don't trust it, or believe that it's right, or believe that it's property. But maybe it helped that I linked to USC 17 (copyright law) instead of the Pirate Bay or the EFF donation page (which, I hasten to note, are rather different in their goals).

  61. Re:I see the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Growing up knowing nothing but huge, overly powerful government, what else should we expect?

    This certainly doesn't apply only to the US. The vast majority of human beings in this world simply cannot imagine life without that god-like central power, regardless of their particular brand of politics-religion. After all, centralized power absolutely dominates the world today, more so than ever before in history.

    For christ's sake, when the average individual considers freedom itself a threat -- just look at the way freedom-leaning politicians are regarded as "radicals" and "nutjobs" -- is it any wonder they see government as the savior rather than the divider and destroyer?

  62. 'Power' vs 'Abuse of Power' by BeanThere · · Score: 1

    Many of the same surveillance capabilities in China are firmly implanted in the US also, which in theory, at least from one viewpoint, puts them "in the same club"; what makes the difference - for now - is that China readily and widely abuses its powers to implement what is effectively a fascist dictatorship (where people can and do for example commonly get 'disappeared' for merely expressing views that disagree with the government), while the US abuses its powers only minimally and has NOT actually become a fascist dictatorship. So both governments have, in theory, similar *power* to perpetrate nasty stuff (which is primarily what we're measuring here), but there are still vast differences in how that power is exercised.

    I'm all for not giving governments so much power in the first place, because firstly sooner or later it is inevitable that you get corrupt governments, and secondly, power begets power and power of government seldom lessens over time, so you're always heading in the wrong direction over time.

  63. A flawed study. by moosesocks · · Score: 1

    The map is rife with errors, and the study takes factors into account that haven't actually happened. For instance, the US received the lowest possible score for 'ID Cards and Biometrics'. Sure, there's some particularly nasty legislation in the works, but so far none of it has passed.

    Svalbard is colored red. I can't possibly imagine that there are considerable privacy issues taking place on Svalbard, apart from the fact that most of the arctic island's 2,200 inhabitants probably know each other.

    Scotland is ranked considerably higher than England & Wales. However, this is not reflected on the map.

    As much as I applaud Privacy International's efforts, they're trying too hard to prove their point, and their credibility is suffering as a result.

    --
    -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  64. Re:I see the US by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

    Personally I find this offensively stereo-typing americans.

    Maybe you SHOULD be offended. I'm American. It perfectly describes the vast majority of Americans I know.

    Yes, Americans are good people. They're also wholly uninterested in their political livelihood.
    --

    We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
  65. My experience in Malaysia by Chicken_Kickers · · Score: 1

    Yay! My country of origin (Malaysia) is in the same league as the US. We have a national identity card (NRID)which was introduced during British colonial times and we just got used to it. You can't apply for anything or do any official business in Malaysia without an I.D. I suppose most Malaysians consider the identity card to be a fact of life and even a useful tool. It has become a rite of passage. You apply for a birth certificate and NRID when you child is born, get a full version of the card the they turn 12 and finally update the card when they turn 18. I remembered waiting eagerly to receive the NRID as a symbol of growing up. On another note, during the communist insurgency in the 50s, the British and later the Malayan government introduced a law called the Internal Securities Act (ISA) which is similar to the Patriot Act. Again, we have gotten so used to it (though there are always some rumblings)that the act is still used despite the communists having surrendered 20 years ago. It is now being used to detain dangerous criminals when the evidence is not enough (yet) and unfortunately, political activists as well, though prisoners under this act are treated relatively well compared to the U.S. Guantanamo bay prison. Their imprisonment is announced publicly,they are allowed legal representation, visits by families, and on some occasions compassion visits during family tragedies. Most will not remain uncharged for more than a year and if not charged will be released. It is interesting that the U.S used to regularly badger our government about the ISA but after 9/11, this has stopped.

  66. America is bad, but others are worse by ZP_558963 · · Score: 1

    As an American, I can say that privacy laws are lacking. Just recently states have started to look at the severity of problem and are passing judgments against the Patriot Act. Being an Engineer and MBA student, I see the problems first hand how the technology can be abused. It is just that the bureaucratic and slow manner that American laws change cannot keep up with technology. The laws will change, just look at the negative backlash to Bush due to the police state policies he pushed for. I am not going to make excuses for the low grades, I will instead talk about the data itself. Other countries are in worse shape. This reviews just the developed countries. Which in a way is a good thing because it sets high baselines. It also shows technology wise how well each country is using their laws and technology. It is bad in it sets the bar so high that it even the good countries cannot meet the grade. Also developing nations get a zero in most of the indicators and is not shown. It can be taken out of context since it is just a single indication on the state of a country. There are other valid indicators on the state of the economy: PPP, GDP, HMI, etc. Which I might add Greece ranks varies from 19 to 35 in PPP indication. Americans are not a single entity. We are diversified and many.

  67. Re: Budgieton Minicity by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    That's jut it - it's a "low reward" behavior on the part of a Simple Troll. ... Unless the employees from the minicities ARE the trolls.

    But even if we include a larger troll base such as the Goatse's, all we have to do is the same type of trick as on the RIAA threads - find a way to siphon it out to our benefit. I don't know yet, but once some counter-weight advantage starts weighing against trolls, we'll regain the power of AC.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  68. there is border surveilance and there is retard by Quietti · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In Finland, being very much of European descent, but having the misfortune of carrying a passport from a North American country, I have to call it like it is: having to repeat the whole story of how I moved to Finland, at every fucking border crossing in or out, over a 10-year period and yet having a permanent resident permit in my passport - and a very Karelian accent thank you - is a situation that smells of idiocy, paranoia and Spanish inquisition. So yes, when border surveillance and immigration practices are that 'tard, it becomes: 1) discrimination 2) invasion of privacy (you wouldn't believe the questions border guards ask) and 3) irritates perfectly legal immigrants to the point of testing their patience beyond reasonable limits, which THEN becomes a national security issue. Sitä saa, mitä tilaa, joten älä tilaa ikävyyksiä ärsyttämällä maahanmuuttajia raja-asemalla koko ajan, kiitos.

    --
    Software is not supposed to be about how to work around a useability issue. - Ken Barber
  69. Score 4 funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is because phones, as TV, deformates the mind.

    1. Re:Score 4 funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "For example, Venezuela requires your fingerprints just to get a (cell) phone"

      makes you wonder who the hell is more privacy compromised.

      and then again, why is it "cell phone"... *_*

      think will have to recondition my thinfoilhat to cover my ears...

  70. American Prosperity Unimaginable by tjstork · · Score: 1

    Most of us are born into a world where overwhelmingly concentrated government power has ruled our entire lives, and we find it difficult if not impossible to imagine a world without it.

    No, the reality is that we are so damned free that we don't even realize it. We are so rich, we don't even realize how much of what we have. Really, a look at what people are buying in media should tell you everything about the state of mind of the American people. Sure, if you ask any American what's going on in the world, they'll say the economy sucks, but, the reality is, most Americans have food, a place to live, some way to get intoxicated, music to listen to, and probably at least one car. So, sucks is a relative thing any more. The embarrassing truth about the media obsession with the likes of Britney Spears, is that America is so damned rich that Britney really is all most people have to worry about. Sure, the sky may fall in any of ten different ways, but America is a country with a deeply religious heritage in a faith where the sky has been about to fall for two thousand years, but hasn't. Just because scientists have now joined the chorus of religious nuts and homeless people in telling we Yankees that the end is nigh doesn't make it any more believable.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:American Prosperity Unimaginable by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, not one point you made had any relation to freedoms - only to the circuses used to conceal the theft of those freedoms from the populace. You're right, a sufficiently entertained populace won't care about freedoms very much, and that's exactly the problem. Complacency.

      Prosperity and freedom are not the same thing.

      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    2. Re:American Prosperity Unimaginable by tjstork · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, not one point you made had any relation to freedoms - only to the circuses used to conceal the theft of those freedoms from the populace. You're right, a sufficiently entertained populace won't care about freedoms very much, and that's exactly the problem. Complacency

      That's absurd. Having physical posessions is one of the highest forms of freedom you can have. It says that you are able to manipulate the universe around you in ways that you see fit. In the USA, a citizen can travel wherever he or she wants, own just about anything he or she sees, say whatever he or she wants... really, the issue is, there's enough freedom for most people right now that the state doesn't affect them all that much. If you want to talk about where freedoms are lost, most people will tend to identify with the right wing because left wing causes tend to impact a wider range of people - taxes, environmental compliance, desegregation, and so on. And, the left, conversely, would point out that the poor in this country, despite having far more wealth in absolute terms than most others on the planet, are less free because they simply can't do certain things. Like a poor person isn't going to be able to fly around too much, buy property, and so on.

      Prosperity and freedom are not the same thing

      No they are not, but usually, prosperity implies more freedom because prosperity means some wealth, and wealth means power. Freedom is only the right of individuals to have their own power.

      But I guess the question is, what is it that you are not allowed to do in the USA, that you would like to do. I would like to be able to fly model rockets without a bunch of FAA crap.

      --
      This is my sig.
  71. The hunting ban is about freedom by Nursie · · Score: 1

    Freedom for the fox!

    1. Re:The hunting ban is about freedom by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      The hunting ban is about freedom... Freedom for the fox!

      Does a fox deserve the basic right to not be killed that we give to humans? Can we agree that there is significant disagreement about this topic with some people believing one thing and other believing the opposite? Would it make sense to say that if someone chose to hunt and kill foxes other people would disagree with that choice? If they support freedom, however, they have to allow others to make that choice they feel is wrong. Until animals are granted the same basic rights as humans that will be the case, of course on that day we'll be too busy locking all the predators in jail cells for murder and inventing artificial meat for them to eat and trying make that sustainable... but I digress.

    2. Re:The hunting ban is about freedom by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "Would it make sense to say that if someone chose to hunt and kill foxes other people would disagree with that choice?"

      In the same way you could say that baby murder is a choice that some other people might disagree with.

      "If they support freedom, however, they have to allow others to make that choice they feel is wrong."

      Fox hunting is not in the same class of "choice" as the other things the OP mentioned, heroin is a choice that doesn't directly affect another being.
      Or do you believe that any animal torture/mutilation/murder is fine as it's a "choice"? If so then I guess I just don't support freedom, by your fucked up definition.

    3. Re:The hunting ban is about freedom by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      In the same way you could say that baby murder is a choice that some other people might disagree with.

      Not at all. A human baby is recognized by our society as having human rights and responsibilities, most of which are held in trust by the state and the legal guardians. When the child grows up and has the right on his or her own to have a life, they are also held responsible for the things they do, like murder. An adult fox is not held responsible for murder if it kills another fox or a child or a mouse. By the same token it is not given the corresponding right to life in our legal system.

      Fox hunting is not in the same class of "choice" as the other things the OP mentioned, heroin is a choice that doesn't directly affect another being.

      You mean it isn't the same because it is one of the choices you disagree with, or do you have some other criteria you think differentiates it? Personally, I hunt, but only things I intend to eat. I disapprove of hunting foxes for sport, but I value the freedom of other people so I oppose any law preventing them from doing it. I recognize that my beliefs and values are not the same as everyone else's and am willing to let them make choices different from mine.

      Or do you believe that any animal torture/mutilation/murder is fine as it's a "choice"?

      Supporting torturing and killing animals is different from opposing laws regarding them. For that matter, I even support a very limited form or animal rights as a legal principal, but that needs to correspond directly with the level of responsibility the animals can assume. If a dog kills a child, that isn't the dog's fault. The dog does not know any better and usually has been trained to attack. The dog, then, cannot gain the corresponding right to not be killed at the whim of its owner.

      If so then I guess I just don't support freedom, by your fucked up definition.

      If you don't value the rights of people to make choices you disagree with or even hate, then no, you don't support freedom. You just support the rights of people to make the same choices you do, or just choices you don't object to. It is like supporting the freedom of people to speak freely, unless those people are saying things you don't like. For example, one person I know told me they thought it was terrible that O.J. Simpson was allowed to write a book about how (theoretically) he could have killed his wife. That person thought they supported freedom of speech, but when it came right down to it, they only supported the right of people to say things they approve of. I've heard the same thing with regard to "hate speech."

      You can claim my definition is "fucked up" but you've failed to provide a better one. Maybe, as I claimed originally, you're just a typical american who does not support freedom, but have blindly assumed you did because it is a positive sounding word whose definition you've never really thought very hard about. "Freedom" isn't apple pies or christianity or flags. It is each person being able to make choices and decisions for themselves, regardless if the majority thinks those decisions are wrong. So long as you're not taking anyone else's rights (freedom) away, a person who supports freedom will support your right to say Jews are evil and greedy, to eat baby cows, to worship some dark god that in olden days ordered his followers to kill their children in sacrifice, or to dress up in tutus and have gay sex.

      I may not like it when people kill animals for fun. I may not approve of the practice of marriage. I may not worship Zeus. I may not like people saying black people are all lazy and stupid. I may not think my neighbor is responsible enough to own a gun or have children, let alone do both at once. I do, however, recognize that it isn't my natural right to tell others what to do and how to live. I support their right to make their own choices, even when I feel what they are doing is unethical, sick, immoral, or dangerous. This is because I actually do value freedom. I don't think most americans do, and I do believe that lack contributes o the eroding civil rights in our country.

    4. Re:The hunting ban is about freedom by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Not at all. A human baby is recognized by our society as having human rights and responsibilities

      And there's where your post falls down. By our society. Which you are proposing to change anyway by the introduction of this so called "freedom". By using the phrase "in our society" you show that this is all still relative. Where exactly is the line drawn? Maybe "freedom" in another society does include child murder. By your own admission children can't take on responsibilities until later, which you consider the price of rights. Historically, some societies have considered children to be property of parents until that point and parents have the right of life or death. Are you going to take away their freedom of choice?

      The point I'm trying to make is that the moment you try and draw any sort of line, you'll fail.

      You mean it isn't the same because it is one of the choices you disagree with, or do you have some other criteria you think differentiates it?

      I made it explicitly clear in my last post I consider it qualitatively different. And yes, the phrase "I consider" is roughly equivalent to "in our society".

      I recognize that my beliefs and values are not the same as everyone else's and am willing to let them make choices different from mine.

      And I recognise that animal torture involves more than one person and their beliefs and values.

      You can claim my definition is "fucked up" but you've failed to provide a better one.

      It was never my intention to do so, just to point out the flaws in what the OP was saying.

      Maybe, as I claimed originally, you're just a typical american who does not support freedom, but have blindly assumed you did because it is a positive sounding word whose definition you've never really thought very hard about.

      I'm not even American. I believe in social freedom and social responsibility, I believe that when done right government can be an expression of that, and I believe that there are grey areas when you try to define exactly what "freedom" is.

      I fail to be convinced by your line of reasoning.

    5. Re:The hunting ban is about freedom by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      And there's where your post falls down. By our society. Which you are proposing to change anyway by the introduction of this so called "freedom".

      According to our constitution, freedom is the default state, while government imposed rules are restrictions on freedom, justified for a very few specific reasons. All other laws should not be restricting freedoms, but merely mitigating conflicts between individuals to solve problems that arise when one person's freedom comes in conflict with another person's. I'm not proposing we introduce anything to this equation. I'm not proposing any changes to that original concept. It was always assumed that our government would overstep its bounds any try to legislate other things, taking away the freedom of the people, which is why we were commanded to be ever vigilant in protecting our freedoms from our government. The people have failed in that task and don't even know what "freedom" is let alone value it and protect it.

      . By using the phrase "in our society" you show that this is all still relative. Where exactly is the line drawn? Maybe "freedom" in another society does include child murder. By your own admission children can't take on responsibilities until later, which you consider the price of rights. Historically, some societies have considered children to be property of parents until that point and parents have the right of life or death. Are you going to take away their freedom of choice?

      You misunderstand completely. I never said there was not a choice to be made with regard to freedoms. I simply said that choice was not what was "good" but much more simply the choice is only, what is considered a "person" and what rights/responsibilities are assigned to an individual. Our society considers babies and children to have limited rights, held in trust for them. Our society at one point did not give rights to black people. Then there was a slow move towards granting them rights, but all of this was based upon the idea that blacks were people deserving of rights. We didn't pass a law saying blacks had freedom of speech and another law saying they had freedom of religion and another law for each right. We eventually decided they were equal and they gained all the accompanying rights they did not have before.

      It is perfectly valid for a society to decide children below a certain age are not deserving of rights, just as it is perfectly valid for a society to decide dolphins, chimpanzees, and giraffe are deserving of rights. The point I'm making, is that is the only factor that is prerequisite when passing a law that is not mitigating conflicting rights, to see if it is anti-freedom.

      The point I'm trying to make is that the moment you try and draw any sort of line, you'll fail.

      Umm, I don't see that you've made that point at all. I'll fail at what? Every society needs to decide what has rights to be able to apply the law. Should rocks have the right to public assembly and should it be illegal to move them if they are thrown in the street by an earthquake? No, we don't grant rights to inanimate objects. There is no need to consider each law and see if it applies to rocks.

      I made it explicitly clear in my last post I consider it qualitatively different.

      But you failed to name the quality, making your argument nonexistent.

      And I recognise that animal torture involves more than one person and their beliefs and values.

      What does this have to do with anything? You might believe animal torture is wrong. I might believe animal torture is wrong. Unless the animals are granted the right to not be tortured and are correspondingly given the responsibility to not torture, then it is not our place to ban others from having different beliefs and acting on them. I submit that if animals have the right to not be tortured, they must be responsible to not torture and we must punish or lock up animals that do persist in tor

    6. Re:The hunting ban is about freedom by Nursie · · Score: 1

      "I submit that if animals have the right to not be tortured, they must be responsible to not torture and we must punish or lock up animals that do persist in torture"

      Then you're an idiot.

  72. Re:I see the US by iminplaya · · Score: 1

    Here's an experiment. Go find a few normal people

    Here's an easier experiment. Give me the square root of -1.

    --
    What?
  73. Re:I see the US by Raenex · · Score: 1

    The value of "freedom" as an american ideal was a great thing and shaped the very foundations of our government. That value is long since dead. Early Americans understood the value of personal freedom. [...] Be it hunting bans or gay marriage or prohibiting heroin, nearly everyone is in favor of passing at least one law to tell other people how to live their lives. I'd be surprised if you got different results from your experiment if you got back in your time machine and performed it. In some respects Americans have a great deal more freedom now than they did back then because the Bill of Rights has been applied to state law.
  74. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "since they are not considered to be human by the Japanese ministry of Justice."

    Well at least the Japanese government listens to it's people.

  75. Re:I see the US by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

    Well, actually, if that's all you care about, isn't that all that matters? I mean, life can be good even without freedom and democracy.

    The problem is that an individual can lose a *lot* of freedoms before they personally are adversely affected, but by the time it causes a problem for them it may be far too late to do anything about it.

    Also, different individuals need different freedoms. For example, it isn't going to cause me personally an immediate problem if the government declares all middle-eastern people to be terrorists, and arrests them, since I'm a white British national - but the fact that it doesn't immediately affect me certainly doesn't mean it isn't wrong.

    I would also like to mention that forcing democracy on everyone in the name of freedom is somewhat stupid - democracy is a pretty flawed system and if you cared about freedom you wouldn't be so quick to remove other nations' freedom to run non-democratic systems (whether they be flawed or not).

  76. Re:Report forgot Japan's treatment of "foreigners" by Heian-794 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Absolutely true, and the fingerprinting is only the beginning.

    You would think that if such fingerprinting measures were taken at the border, any foreigner admitted to the country would be considered not to be a criminal, but in fact the Japanese government doesn't start trusting you even a bit.

    All non-citizens -- even permanent residents -- are forced to carry Alien Registration Cards at all times. These cards alone contain enough information to offer any mugger the opportunity to become an identity thief: bearer's name and Japanese kanji/kana name, if there is one; date of birth; sex; place of birth; nationality; home municipality and state/province in home country; current address; name of householder at current address; passport number; date of issue of passport; date of first landing in Japan; visa type and expiration date; job title; employer's name and address, and finally, signature (if issued after early 2000s) or fingerprint (if issued earlier).

    All of this is printed in plain text easily visible to the eye. This is an identity theft disaster waiting to happen, even if the data obtained forcibly by immigration inspectors hasn't been sold off to unknown organizations.

    Ostensibly there are rules in place about when these cards can be demanded and who can see the data on them, but in practice police officers will ask to see them on the slightest pretext, and if you're not carrying yours, they can take you to the police station, make you sit in detention until the Ministry of Justice can verify your identity, and possibly impose a fine.

    The report mentions CCTV cameras as a threat to privacy, but doesn't mention what Japan has: good old-fashioned live police officers on the streets arbitrarliy accosting people and demanding papers! I'd much rather walk past a CCTV camera than a Japanese "police box"!

    The police also keep non-citizens under surveillance by using illegal "policy creep" such as getting hotels to demand these cards (and make copies!) for all foreigners staying with them, despite the law stating that only non-residents have to provice such information. Employers, real-estate agents, mobile phone companies, and even places like video stores will also demand copies of these cards as a condition of service. There are even rumors of adding chips such as RFID to these cards and setting up scanners in hotels, train stations, and other public facilities.

    No one protests, because non-citizens can't vote and the average Japanese person is too busy and too apolitical to care. "Become a citizen" isn't good advice either, as it takes many years of residence to be eligible and your data doesn't get destroyed if you become Japanese (and police will hassle you on the street anyway, if you don't look Japanese).

    I'm disgusted that Japan's rating was as high as it was. Japan takes only the most totalitarian parts from the US, Great Britain, and the EU, and counts on the voices of the "it's their country; they can do whatever they want" crowd to drown out civil-liberties advocates. Japan is fading into irrelevance on the world stage, I'm sad to say, and this creeping totalitarianism is one reason why.

  77. Re:I see the US by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

    I'd add something like 'as long as no harm is done' to that. You know, just to avoid giving people the 'freedom' to kill others for example. The big question is where to draw the line.

    Hmm, that is pretty subjective. How about we're consistent to a single concept? Freedom of others to make choices you disapprove of, provided those choices don't conflict with the rights of another. In fact, I'd argue that all laws should be mitigating the conflict of rights between citizens, otherwise it is trying to legislate behavior that does not affect society.

    Does a same sex marriage harm anyone? Does the right to carry arms harm anyone? Does it harm anyone if the government isn't allowed to eavesdrop on your communications?

    Same sex marriage does not infringe on the rights of people who aren't part of the marriage. Carrying guns does not, by itself, conflict with the rights of others, but it does potentially enable others to infringe your rights, thus it understandable to have some regulation. As for the the government eavesdropping, everything the government does infringes on individual rights because it is paid for with tax dollars taken involuntarily. As such, all government actions need to be justified specifically as preventing one's rights from being infringed.