Sun Buys MySQL

Krow alerted me that MySQL has been bought by Sun. Right now there is only a brief announcement but it discusses what the acquisition will mean for the core developers, community etc.

Comments

I wonder

[BadHaggis]

One can only hope that they will be using this to replace the database that comes in Open Office.

Re:I wonder

[goose-incarnated]

One can only hope that they will be using this to replace the database that comes in Open Office.

Seconded, thoroughly - in addition I would like some decent gui tools for single-user data-storage requirements; it's annoying that any pc user who wants to maintain a list of (contacts/friends/must-see-movies/must-read-books/etc) puts everything into a spreadsheet.

--
Homo homini lupus

?Every man is a wolf?

Re:I wonder

[Mr. Underbridge]

One can only hope that they will be using this to replace the database that comes in Open Office.

I figured MS was paying them to include the current one to make Access look good by comparison.

Re:I wonder

[Meneth]

Seconded, thoroughly - in addition I would like some decent gui tools for single-user data-storage requirements; it's annoying that any pc user who wants to maintain a list of (contacts/friends/must-see-movies/must-read-books/etc) puts everything into a spreadsheet. I like Notepad with a fixed font.

Re:I wonder

[Firehed]

Seconded, thoroughly - in addition I would like some decent gui tools for single-user data-storage requirements; it's annoying that any pc user who wants to maintain a list of (contacts/friends/must-see-movies/must-read-books/etc) puts everything into a spreadsheet.

Well, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with that. A spreadsheet is effectively just a less structured database, and given that you're talking about freeform data... and in any case those kind of lists aren't going to have enough data that a spreadsheet becomes inappropriate.

And to be honest, does it really matter what method they're using to make their lists? I'd rather be sent a CSV than a SQL file, and despite being a proponent of open standards, I can still open up an Excel file no problem. Yeah, I'd prefer to see just sharing out a page on Google Docs or just being handed a sheet of paper, but that's life.

Re:I wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

One can only hope that they will be using this to replace the database that comes in Open Office. Wouldn't SQLite be a better choice for that? MySQL is a bit to heavy for use in an office application. SQLite was designed to be embedded into applications, is quite powerful, fast, and released in the public domain.

Re:I wonder

[ozmanjusri]

One can only hope that they will be using this to replace the database that comes in Open Office.

You can already use MySQL as the database engine for Open Office.

The development environment in OOo (Base) is a database client, not a database engine. Base does bundle the HSQLDB database engine, but even that is just XML tables, and shouldn't be used for anything serious.

As far as the quality of Base, yep it's rough, but it's also brand new for OOo v2. It's being actively developed, and there are plansto use it to allow users to share data from several FOSS packages within the suite.

* Btw, I know you were just trolling, but I thought this was worth an answer, since desktop databases are a badly misunderstood class of software.

Re:I wonder

[MBGMorden]

The problem, from an IT department standpoint, is that such "lists" always seem to grow in their requirements. We had one department that starting keeping a "list" of incoming data for people applying for land zoning exemptions. All these were handled by a single person and she just needed to keep track of them so the spreadsheet works fine right?

Now, fast forward a year. People from 3 other departments need access to an always updated copy of this list. One of them is off-site on a different network. Some people aren't supposed to see parts of the list. Others can see all of the list but they are only supposed to be able to change parts of it.

Now, as you can see, what this has evolved into is essentially a multi-user database app. A very basic one, but still more than a spreadsheet can handle (because a spreadsheet is meant for calculating, not data storage). If they had just come to us in the beginning we could have gotten something working setup from the start, rather than having to worry about going back and recreating it and importing data.

That's my problem with the whole "a spreadsheet is fine" outlook. You can hammer in a nail with a crescent wrench too, but if you do so with a hammer sitting right there in the toolbox I'm gonna consider you an idiot :).

Re:I wonder

[squiggleslash]

This is why IT departments need some improvement. Most are made up of hardware people who have a few programmers as friends and by and large are reactive rather than proactive in the way they deal with growth. The worst are the massively corporate entities who assume that the way to deal with any issue is to micromanage everything. I'm not blaming the people in IT for this so much as the people who create and staff IT departments.

How do you deal with the growth of an application such that it no longer is able to serve the audience that it now has effectively? Well, if this were hardware, you'd replace it. And the same approach needs to be taken with software. But that takes people to understand the application, and others to do the time consuming work of migrating people and data over to the new application.

There's nothing wrong with using a spreadsheet to manage an address book to start with. As more people start to use the same source, however, IT departments need to be willing to (and CTO's willing to allow them to) recommend changes, including providing the resources to move the data to a more efficient, more effective, platform. As of right now though, most IT departments don't even have the appropriate people to do that.

Re:I wonder

[Shakrai]

I like Notepad with a fixed font.

Notepad is a great storage system. In fact, I have at least ten "New Text Document.txt", "New Text Document (2).txt" files on my desktop right now. One of them has my address book in it.... let's see... is it (6)? Nope, that's my checking account register. Hmm.... could've sworn that was my address book.... shit, I'm overdrawn by $50!

(Laugh, it's not that far from the truth.... got a similar situation with text files in my ~ on my Linux box.... who needs meaningful filenames and directories when you have grep?)

Re:I wonder

[Robert The Coward]

Spoken like someone who doesn't work in IT. I get request the day stuff is suppose to start with the users IDEA of what should work. Not requirements or information and what needs to be done then I get weeks of little issues tiring to make this Square Peg fit into a round whole until I figure out what is going on and replace it with something that works. The problem is IT is the last step in the process not the 1st step and that will always cause issues. Sometime we just can't do what the user thinks is simple. Just this week I had a issue with someone deciding that email made a good real time alert system from an external customer. Problem email isn't real time and/or reliable. So every hick up in email is an issue. If IT was consult we could have either a)set the expection or b)developed sometime that was real time and reliable they could use.

Re:I wonder

[ericlondaits]

Actually, from my experience as a programmer I'd much rather have someone come with a spreadsheet he worked with for a year, and very specific requirements such as "we want some people to be able to see these fields, some people to be able to edit these columns" and so... than to have someone with a vague notion of what he needs and then turning that into a relational database. Even if spreadsheets seem awful, a year's user experience with a fast prototyping tool (i.e. the spreadsheet) is priceless.

Re:I wonder

[Wiseman1024]

SELECT goal FROM life; did not work as expected.

Re:I wonder

[tompaulco]

You can hammer in a nail with a crescent wrench too, but if you do so with a hammer sitting right there in the toolbox I'm gonna consider you an idiot.
Well, as long as we are on the subject, how about the overuse of SQL databases for non-relational information? MySQL is no beast, but in my company, there is a SQL Server on almost every box and many of them are storing stuff that is non-relational and could be accessed more quickly in a direct access file.

Re:I wonder

[Reapy]

And by the way, I set up a meeting to show the finished [vague notion] next week, get on it!

Re:I wonder

[wattrlz]

For personal use, I guess, nothing, but when businesses dump 100,000+ lines into an excel spreadsheet for reporting purposes it has a tendency to get messy.

Re:I wonder

[kestasjk]

I just hope they don't change anything.. I don't get how this fits in to their strategy.

Will they try and make it more Solaris-oriented, or what? It's not like they had to buy MySQL to improve its ability to run on Solaris.
How will this affect MySQL's upcoming Falcon engine? How is this going to impact Oracle?

They used to be all about PostgreSQL, putting it in Solaris by default if memory serves. PostgreSQL's BSD license would have let them fork and develop it as they pleased, so why would they want to spend all that money to get the same control over MySQL that they had over PostgreSQL by default?

Re:I wonder

[MrNemesis]

Might not be what you're looking for, but ever since I discovered Python and SQLite I've found this little tool http://sqlitebrowser.sourceforge.net/ to be brilliant.

Granted, I'm not using SQLite to do anything complicated - mostly just as dumb storage for non-huge cross-linked lists but it still seems remarkably capable, very fast and very low on resources, with the GUI providing a nice interface for a quick gander at the data structure.

There's also a Ruby/GTK gizmo here http://rsqlitegui.rubyforge.org/

Re:I wonder

[jorgeleon]

Who needs meaningful filenames and directories when you have grep?

Actually, he has a point.

One of the best features, to my taste, of gmail is that I can quickly find an email with a specific content regardless of the subject. Same thing with files if they are full content indexed.

And that is the way that humans naturally work: "I know what I am looking for, I just don't know where I put it (nor I care where it was)". The folders and file names paradigm is an emulation of the paper archival model. Classes are tough on how to create a mantain one (bookeeping, library, secretaries).

You see, this "order" force us to keep to pieces of information in our head: What is it and where is it. And to use one to get the other.

Of course anyone can create a simple filing system, but it requires some level of self disipline to keep it.

And is not intuitive.

I know what I want... just fetch it!

Re:I wonder

[strong_epoxy]

Spoken like someone who's just entered high school.

The last people anyone wants to talk to about ad-hoc projects is IT. An employee has a need, they fill it with a reasonable tool. Per the GP post, the initial requirements were simple and the solution sufficient. No IT department needed. As the utility of the system increased, so did the requirements, and so must the solution space expand requiring IT assistance. IT should then be eager to help and congratulatory on the success of the solution to date.

It's impossible to divine the future requirements of any system, or even it's success. That's why we iterate.

Re:I wonder

[epine]

Actually, from my experience as a programmer I'd much rather have someone come with a spreadsheet he worked with for a year, and very specific requirements such as "we want some people to be able to see these fields, some people to be able to edit these columns" and so... than to have someone with a vague notion of what he needs and then turning that into a relational database. Even if spreadsheets seem awful, a year's user experience with a fast prototyping tool (i.e. the spreadsheet) is priceless. I totally agree, as far as your post goes.

OTOH, fast prototyping can just as easily cause a lot problems. By the time you reach the natural limits of the prototype, who pays to extract the data into a preservation format? Did anybody even ask before the "fast" prototype was slapped together whether the data being captured will ultimately require preservation in a properly thought through archival structure? And if so, was this conversion budgeted ahead of time, or does it just show up as a problem further down the road, and effectively bite a chunk out of the IT dept. budget that should have been allocated to a business activity?

I've always believed one of the golden rules of foresight is "whoever created the mess, fixes the mess". In any situation where this rule is violated (e.g. the person creating the mess doesn't have the skillset to fix the mess), maybe some careful up-front design trumps the retrospective knowledge benefits of a fast prototype.

Re:I wonder

[NoOneInParticular]

[gasp]. You actually expect that Sun of all companies would be able to put a decent GUI on top of anything? Okay, well, Oracle's got an ever worse track record w.r.t. GUIs, but Sun takes a good second place. Even with a 13 year lead in the managed application space, they are only now taking the Java GUI seriously.

Be realistic. The path MySQL is going down now would involve configuration and editing through countless sets of webservers, various inaptly layers ending on the word 'bean', 200 xml configuration files, a couple of extra layers of abstraction thrown in the API, just because they can, and only with an additional quad core PC with 16 Gigs of RAM you can only work with your one-core 64 Mb instance of MySql.

Re:I wonder

[omeomi]

As the creator of ZuluPad, I obviously recommend it as a desktop wiki...

Re:I wonder

[cuban321]

who needs meaningful filenames and directories when you have grep? Who needs grep when you have spotlight?

Re:I wonder

[mwanaheri]

For real. What's wrong with keeping addresses in a spreadsheet? Well, nothing much -- as long as you don't have many friends. Even most address-databases suck, however, if it comes to people having several addresses including phones, mobile phones etc. Or if you want a convenient way of writing letters, stuff like that.
While I find it amazing for how many purposes you can (mis-)use spreadsheeds, having spreadsheets mailed to me with information not including any calculating ruins my day. It's pseudo-structured information. Reminds me of the mails I get when people send me an 'oh-so-funny' picture -- in a msword document.

Re:I wonder

[zurtle]

Actually there is stil an immense use for Excel in data processing. As a mathematician, I find Excel excellent for very-short-term data analysis projects. If you need to put the data in a database... you can always dump the whole spreadsheet.

Excel generates graphs very quickly, has quite a powerful set of numerical analysis functions and just works.

Databases aren't the answer when you want fast results.

Re:I wonder

[Bored MPA]

"the wiki notepad on crack"

does that mean you automagically get longer sentences?

*rimshot*

Re:I wonder

[rmerry72]

No, we need personal database software. The terabytes of data that homes will soon be accumulating require a better storage solution than a spreadsheet.

We do: we have MS Access.

Its a fabulous low-end database GUI built on a fairly robust RDMS engine for low volume usages. Best thing is every Windows 2000\XP\2003+ machine has ODBC drivers built in (not sure about Vista). Easy to build your own little apps or more advanced VB/.NET interfaces if your inclined. Hell, I built a J2EE shared calendar and multi-media catalog using an Access database as a start and it has worked butifully for the last 5 years.

Not on the same level as PostGres or (arguably MySQL) or a commercial RDMS but a great step up from a spreadsheet. Been around about as long too.

Re:I wonder

[kcbrown]

Well, as long as we are on the subject, how about the overuse of SQL databases for non-relational information? MySQL is no beast, but in my company, there is a SQL Server on almost every box and many of them are storing stuff that is non-relational and could be accessed more quickly in a direct access file.

"Accessed more quickly"?

Maybe. But there are advantages to storing it in a SQL database:

1. If you suddenly have to relate your data to other data that's already in the database, you don't need to do a lot of extra work to make it happen. Namely, you don't suddenly have to convert the original data to a database, rewrite the app to work with it, etc.
2. You don't have to write code to parse the data into fields, etc., because the database already hands it to you that way.
3. Searching is relatively painless -- just use the appropriate WHERE clause. Even full-text indexing can be had for "free" if the database supports it and you use it.
4. Performance tuning becomes a matter of creating a few appropriate indexes, assuming the application isn't doing something stupid.
5. The tools to view and manipulate the data outside the application itself are already written and well-known. More to the point, you don't need to use the application itself in order to manipulate the data like you would if you were using some app-specific file format.
6. If you weren't stupid in how you wrote the application, you can change database engines without too much pain if that proves to be necessary/useful.

It doesn't take much to be better off sticking your data into a SQL database even if your data isn't relational in nature, as long as the data relationships you do have are relatively straightforward.

Re:I wonder

[Max Littlemore]

I have at least ten "New Text Document.txt", "New Text Document (2).txt" files on my desktop right now. One of them has my address book in it.... let's see... is it (6)? Nope, that's my checking account register.

Yeah, I used to have a similar problem until I figured out the perfect solution.

First of all, create a directory for each file on the Desktop. Next, open all of the files until you find your checking account register, right-button drag the file to your newly created "checking account register" directory and select "Create shortcut here" from the menu that appears when you drop the file.

It will take a little bit of time to start with, but it's certainly worth it. For example, to open your checking file register, all you have to do is open "checking account register" on the desktop and the open "Shortcut to New Document (6).txt"!

Don't thank me. The knowledge that my small insight has helped another human being is all the thanks I need.

Re:I wonder

[robfoo]

I found out a potential reason behind the 'funny picture in word document' thing the other day. I sent my dad (who works at a govt dept) an email with a picture attached, and he replied with 'all pictures get stripped out of our emails. the workaround is to put the picture in a word document'
So I blame Corp/Govt email policies - pictures are obviously just (potentially offensive) time wasters, but Word documents are business, and we all know how quickly workarounds like that spread in corporate offices - much like using spreadsheets for data storage! Ha! I related it back to the topic! Wait.. what was the topic again?.. :)

Re:I wonder

[Panaqqa]

This is the exact reason I can foresee domain names actually becoming less and less important (and valuable) with advancing time. As search engine's crawlers get more powerful and results better targeted, it won't matter any more if the data you want comes from "ghr664-32jyz5.com".

Im a sun employee

[Mark Atwood]

First post!

So now I'm a Sun employee. Interesting. No more BK at MySQL.

What all this means, I'm sure I'll be learning the hard way very soon.

Re:Im a sun employee

[morgan_greywolf]

No more BK at MySQL. Are you saying that Sun employees don't eat Whoppers? Does Sun have stock in McDonald's?

Re:Im a sun employee

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations! Sun has a popular product at last.

They stand to make a lot of money off this acquisition.

Re:Im a sun employee

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Sun will fire the idiots who said that RI, ACID, Triggers, and Stored Procedures aren't necessary for a real database. One can hope.

Re:Im a sun employee

[kabloom]

JavaDB is equivalent to SQLite in that it's an embedded DB. MySQL wouldn't be appropriate for some situations, specifically those where having a server is inappropriate.

Re:Im a sun employee

[krow]

Hi!

We added triggers, stored procedures, and views in 5.0. Today there are publicly several transactional engines (supported by companies like Oracle, IBM, Solid, and yes ourselves). There are many other non-public transactional engines.

Cheers,
      -Brian

Re:Im a sun employee

[JavaRob]

(Go ahead, you drooling MySQL fanbois, mod me down, but rest assured, I will smile smugly as you desperately look up the above mentioned key features of a relation database on Wikipedia.) Speaking of desperate researching, why don't you look up what toy database Slashdot uses?
Perhaps one of those drooling fanbois can evict you now.

Licenses

[ilovegeorgebush]

Interesting surprise! I wonder if Sun will streamline the licensing madness that MySQL has become...

Re:Licenses

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if Sun will streamline the licensing madness that MySQL has become... I'm sure that's part of the plan. Streamlined madness is what I've come to expect from Sun.

Re:Licenses

[Martian_Kyo]

mysql license is real mess, it can be interpreted in so many ways.

Re:Licenses

[Spy der Mann]

mysql license is real mess, it can be interpreted in so many ways.

Mod parent insightful, please!

I recall reading that MySQL AB really didn't stand a chance to force the GPL (and therefore, move to their proprietary license) on programs that connected to the database because that was "dynamically linking". Dude, WTF? Using protocols to communicate to a program or service is NOT linking! I got so angry when I read the news on the License change, that I wanted to tag the story "greedybastards".
But if MySQL AB told the truth, then nobody would buy their ultra-expensive license.

On the other hand, Sun and their promotion of Open Office (and open formats) is a proper example of Free software.

Let's hope things change for the good (for example, re-releasing the MySQL client software to LGPL or GPL+linking exception).

Re:Licenses

[zdzichu]

Did your program really communicated using MySQL protocol over TCP or unix socket? Is this protocol even documented?
Almost all software uses implementation of this protocol from libmysqlclient. Linking to this library. Hence, GPL.

Re:Licenses

[djtack]

Using protocols to communicate to a program or service is NOT linking!

I understand where you're coming from, which is why I moved to Postgres for all my new applications last year. However, as it stands now, I think MySQL is within their rights to use the GPL for the client. As far as I know, there is no way to communicate with a MySQL server without linking to their client library (i.e., libmysqlclient.a). At one time there was an attempt to maintain a fork of the old LGPL MySQL 3, but it never took off. Now, merely linking to the client library doesn't automatically create a derived worked (see Linus's explanation), however, in the absence of some other compatible library you could have linked with instead, it's pretty much impossible to say your linked program is independent of MySQL. And since independence is a requirement to have a non-derived work (i.e. the ability for a program to live a separate life, do something useful without the linked library), the program ends up being derived from the MySQL client, and has to abide by the GPL.
There is still plenty of argument around this topic, but again, it can be avoided by using Postgres, which IMHO is a better database anyway.

Re:Licenses

[photon317]

I agree about PostgreSQL being a better option for so many reasons (and this new Sun thing is just yet another on the list). The only thing PostgreSQL really needs is some kind of asynch multimaster replication. That's one place where you can get "forced" to use MySQL because Pg can't do what you need. MySQL's implementation of asynch multimaster replication sucks anyways, I'm sure the Pg community can do it better eventually.

Back to the topic at hand though, one way around the libmysqlclient GPL thing is to insulate yourself in a dynamic language where your code doesn't explicitly "link" with libmysqlclient. If you're using Perl (or any other similar language I would assume), DBD::mysql links to libmysqlclient.a, but your own Perl application can be whatever license you like and just "use DBI" (and DBD::mysql indirectly), which is not linking.

Not a rash move

[Now15]

Sun has been thinking about this for a while
http://www.news.com/2100-7344_3-5562799.html

Re:Not a rash move

[morgan_greywolf]

Yeah, I remember the 'Sun DB' remark. I expect we'll see a Sun-branded version of MySQL (SunSQL? MySunDB? StarSQL? OpenSQL.org?). I also expect to see Sun packaging MySQL with OpenOffice.org, with smoother OOo Base integration.

Re:Not a rash move

[canuck57]

But I think most people thought Sun might push PostgreSQL which is a nice database. Not sure why Sun would purchase MySQL, seems like an expensive PR move. I for one have seen Sun's product support deteriorate over the years, and hope they keep support for MySQL independent of the main line support. Or maybe this plays into Oracle as Oracle had or has an alliance with Sun. Is this alliance strained?

Re:Not a rash move

[Weslee]

PostgreSQL has 7 -core developers, one of those works at Sun.

While Sun didn't buy any of the PostgreSQL companies, they do provide support and developers - the same as the others.
I doubt their support of PostgreSQL will lessen any.

The two database communities are not comparable.

MySQL is run by a central company.
PostgreSQL is run by the community, with companies growing up around it offering additional features and support (of which Sun is one of them).

What will happen is MySQL, the company, is shut down?
This I don't know.

I do know what will happen if the companies around PostgreSQL go away?
Its happened before. - PostgreSQL continues.

If anything from my point of view this is better for MySQL.
It stops companies like Oracle from being able to control the only company that truly controls MySQL.

Wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear they paid an astronomical amount for MySQL. In fairness though, the code is stellar. The developers must be beaming with pride. If I were a shareholder, it would certainly brighten up my day.

PS: Sorry.

Here is the PR

[kill-1]

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080116/20080116005349.html?.v=1

"As part of the transaction, Sun will pay approximately $800 million in cash in exchange for all MySQL stock and assume approximately $200 million in options."

Re:Here is the PR

[icke]

It would be interesting to see how this might stress their relationship with Oracle. So are we heading back to the days of a vertically integrated "stack"? I doubt it. More likely they will jettison the hardware business and concentrate on software.

Re:Here is the PR

[MrKaos]

For sure, The big guys (IBM, Sun, Oracle, Microsoft) are starting to look the same, with only Microsoft not playing with Open Source something. Could be interesting days ahead, it really looks like business models are starting to reshape themselves as they try to squeeze more dollars out of each account and/or IBM/Sun/Oracle eyeing over how much profit they could squeeze out of the demise of Microsoft's market share in the business sector.

Perhaps Sun will be playing around with open sourcing some more of their hardware as a pseudo way of moving away from hardware, without actually losing all their hardware aquisitions.

But it is interesting to see how open source as a business model is evolving by allowing competitors to leverage off each other and still compete. Maybe what we are looking at is the "horizontalisation" of the market, I note that with speculation about an open sourcing of DB2 and Oracle databases, Microsoft's position in the market looks more and more isolated every day.

Re:Here is the PR

[div_2n]

Hopefully they are starting to realize the real value in offering software virtually for free but charging for the support. You get a lot more regular paying customers if they can pay a very affordable annual cost for continued support vs paying some stupid high software cost up front. Many opportunities are missed because of the sticker shock for SMBs.

Re:Here is the PR

[superskippy]

I am delighted that the second best Unix flavour has bought the second best open-source database.

Yes!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been waiting SOO long for OpenJySQL 19!

Only one question

[pieterh]

Will it blend?

Not that I distrust Sun's motives when it comes to free software. I mean they did a stellar job on OpenOffice.org, didn't they?

Great news!!

[Slashidiot]

... I think. Are these great news? It's hard to know in which direction will big companies move. But if Sun keeps it's current track, I would say these are great news.

Re:Great news!!

[b100dian]

I think it's long-term bye-bye LAMP, since Sun may "empower" MySQL with Java stored procedures, may obfuscate the documentation(like Oracle does), or remove the transactions altogether and replace them with soft ones (JTA),... or anything you can expect (if you've seen a Java programmer using 1% of databases' features..)

Re:Great news!!

[b100dian]

How is adding Java stored procedures a bad thing?
First, because it will make easier for developers to put more application logic in the database.
Second, because a native compiled stored procedure (native, that is, to the DBMS) would be faster
But mostly, because free hosting which maintains something based on Java it's like.. not there.

And you have to admit that free hosting w/ MySQL is one of the reasons LAMP developers are so many, and LAMP is successful

Sure you can use only CRUD operations and do everything in the middle or client tier but it's not always the most efficient.
Exactly my point. But moving the bytecode from the middle tier into the database makes no difference either.

Why did they buy it?

[LiquidCoooled]

Didn't they know they could just download it and run without paying?

Re:Why did they buy it?

[Two9A]

On Slashdot, everyone's facetious. I don't expect to be modded Informative for this post, for example ;)

What happens now with Oracle and PostgtreSQL?

[IYagami]

Right now Sun supports PostgreSQL on Solaris (http://www.sun.com/software/products/postgresql/index.jsp) and Oracle is one of the main applications used in Solaris.

I think this is a move to sell support to their customers, like asking: "Do you need an Oracle Database?"
- If the answer is "YES", then we will sell you our servers and OS support
- If the answer is "NO", then we will sell you our servers and OS support AND MySQL / PostgreSQL support

There is a very good entry on a Sun blog about the cost of propietary databases and the "commodization" of this market:
http://blogs.sun.com/jkshah/entry/cost_of_proprietary_database

Re:THE NEW COMMENTS SYSTEM!

[morgan_greywolf]

Seriously, how the fuck do I view -1, threaded? Try the Prefs link on the far left side of the bar thing at the top.

So why would SUN buy MYSQL - discussion!

[KeyserDK]

Read the subject.
I thought SUN was currently bundling postgresql guess that wasn't good enough...
So up for discussion why buy mysql?

  * Well you can't buy postgresql.....(Who to buy?)
  * Wanting to hurt redhat
  * You get ownership of the code (Since mysql has)

The "hurting redhat" is more for journalists "lets find a conflict thinking" ...
What else are the reasons?

Re:So why would SUN buy MYSQL - discussion!

[theskipper]

Ulterior motives aside, looking at it from the marketing perspective it presents a nice unified package for the big boys. On the golf course the sales drones will have clear tit-for-tat competition with MS's offerings.

From the official blog:

So why is this important for the internet? Until now, no platform vendor has assembled all the core elements of a completely open source operating system for the internet. No company has been able to deliver a comprehensive alternative to the leading proprietary OS. With this acquisition, we will have done just that - positioned Sun at the center of the web, as the definitive provider of high performance platforms for the web economy. For startups and web 2.0 companies, to government agencies and traditional enterprises. This creates enormous potential for Sun, for the global free software community, and for our partners and customers across the globe. There's opportunity everywhere.

Hopefully

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully they will make PostgreSQL the default database engine and just add a MySQL legacy layer on top of it. Sun already has great PostgreSQL support, so it's not such a strange suggestion. Maybe that way MySQL will get ACID support this century.

Re:Hopefully

[Jeppe Salvesen]

MySQL is already ACID. Unlike PostgreSQL, MySQL supports several storage engines - with InnoDB, DBD and Cluster providing ACID. MySQL has indeed supported ACID, subqueries and such since 2005.

It's disheartening to see these kinds of posts get modded as insightful in 2008. Aren't we supposed to be dynamic, informed folks?

Re:Hopefully

[Jeppe Salvesen]

Which MySQL do you use?

Read up. Disable autocommits, issue a BEGIN TRANSACTION, and make sure you check the success of all queries before you perform that COMMIT.

Re:Hopefully

[thrillseeker]

MySQL has indeed supported ... subqueries ... since 2005

Its support of subqueries has severely poor performance when multiple rows are returned in the inner SELECT(s), as I found (again) yesterday.

Re:Sun?

[TheGratefulNet]

screw google. hard to find a more evil company these days (ignore their 'newspeak' nonsense about not doing evil. those that know about google and haven't been inducted into 'the society' know about google and avoid it like the plague).

sun hires older workers (disc: I work at sun). when I interviewed at google, though, I was the oldest 'grey hair' in the whole cafeteria ;(

then, see the brian reid story to confirm all this evilness about google.

please think twice about parotting the 'google is not evil' mantra, because I assure you - if you are over mid 30's, they will either not hire you OR fire you before you are about to vest. quite evil.

so I'm glad its not going into the hands of google. they have enough power and are corrupt enough, already.

(really, go search on brian reid - it may turn your view around about 'the beloved google'). sad to say, but it is true.

Jonathan Schwartz's Blog

[sucker_muts]

This is quite interesting news! Check out what Jonathan Schwartz has to say about this:

http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/

Re:Great news

[numbski]

Could you fill us in? What low blows, and what transactional engines were removed? (Not being stupid, I'm just ignorant to what you're referring to...)

It would make MySQL easier to deploy...

[hughk]

I have worked at a lot of big banks. Open Source has been slowly finding its way in, but it is incredibly difficult to deploy an open source database like MySQL or Postgres. The banks says they want safety and security - and you answer that your database isn't enterprise critical so why pay for Oracle? Management then says, ah well, how about MS SQL Server....

Re:It would make MySQL easier to deploy...

[hughk]

The banks are really allergic to deploying stuff from smaller vendors. The CTO in a bank tends to be really risk averse (yes, strange whilst his colleagues are pissing the bank's money away on dodgy loans and derivatives). It has been very difficult to deploy Linux but it has sort-of become possible over the years (typically RHEL or sometimes SUSE). Personally, I can see the benefit of major databases, but they get expensive when what you are looking for is a light-weight data store and you really don't want the overhead of an enterprise database. Sun is still big and they still sell a lot of backend servers in banks.

Re:It would make MySQL easier to deploy...

[awpoopy]

Next time point out that Gmail runs on MySQL and FTD runs on Postgres.
Google also contributes to the source on MySQL and OpenOffice.org

Re:It would make MySQL easier to deploy...

[mlwmohawk]

The argument that is basically summed up by "No one got fired for choosing IBM" is why so many companies bloat beyond control. It really is an act of laziness and cowardice.

A good CTO or engineer can research and understand the risks and benefits of using specific technology. A better CTO puts in place risk mitigation, i.e. grow internal talent to handle the new technology.

Having been in the CTO position, and basically following my own advice, I saved my DotCom startup almost $1M dollars on license fees and support contracts. Yes, we went out of business because the business model was flawed, but our technology was on target, did much more than it was expected to, and worked fantastically and because of these steps, we had an extra year that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

This is why small companies are the most innovative.

Re:Sun?

[TheRaven64]

It's a bit odd considering how much effort Sun put in to pushing PostgreSQL on Solaris in the last year or so. I wonder what their goal in this acquisition is.

OpenOffice

[XB-70]

Base in OpenOffice has always been a disappointment - sadly sidelined as an 'afterthought', base lurches along..

Enter MySQL - combine it with OpenOffice and you finally have a real, integrated database that MS Office can't match. All we need now is a RAD front end for the consumer...

Re:Sun?

[timster]

Man, I KNOW -- they didn't hire me either. Totally evil.

Re:Great news

[Too Much Noise]

Oracle bought both InnoDB and BerkeleyDB. Those still happen to be two of the better engine options of MySQL.

Dificult to say...

[mlwmohawk]

As a long term PostgreSQL proponent, I'm not sure this is good news or bad. Many of the software stacks in open source, regrettably, use only MySQL. This makes it hard for PostgreSQL at times, but it puts the "owners" of MySQL in an excellent position to help some projects while ignoring others.

Sun owns Java. Sun will soon own MySQL. If you have a Tomcat/J2EE environment running open source, you will soon be having to deal with a single vendor with control over your environment, because most systems only give lip service to PostgreSQL but fully support MySQL. Expect the support bills to go up.

On to RedHat and IBM, I think it is time for them to start funding the PostgreSQL project for real. Setup a more corporate entity to guide it and REALLY compensate the guys like Tom, Bruce, et. al. for so much hard work, which IMHO is above and beyond a standard pay check.

Re:Dificult to say...

[imipak]

Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that Microsoft swallowed that ESR crap about "you can't defeat open source by buying the company". Imagine if they'd seen the light (a black light...) and started shopping for open source or Free software companies. *shudder*

Re:Dificult to say...

[jimicus]

ESR was on the nail. You can't defeat open source by buying the company IF the product has enough people who care about it enough to maintain it, have the appropriate expertise and aren't employed by the company.

There are a lot of important open source projects for which at least one of the above requirements is not true.

Re:Dificult to say...

[krow]

There are many of us who have been working on MySQL for many years (my efforts with MySQL begin a decade ago). None of us are willing to move away from our open source roots. I've seen nothing that makes me think that Sun had any interest in doing anything foolish. They understand the value of MySQL being open source.

    -Brian

Oracle in Java

[wikinerd]

This means that now more people may prefer to use MySQL rather than Oracle with Java, as they will see it as the most "compatible" database to be used within Java.

what about postgres

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been a die hard postgres user for about 3 years and this news scares the crap out of me. Sun has been using postgres as a backend option for Solaris log functionality and they contribute to the project regularly. My fear is that postgres will be discarded in favor of the shiny new toy

Re:Sun?

[TheGratefulNet]

they hired brian and then fired him just before he was about to vest. they gave some cock and bull story about 'being too old fashioned' but if you knew brian (and I actually do) then you'd know this was a total blatant lie.

its not about not being hired - its about their hiring CRITERIA and retention methods. seriously, this has surfaced a few times and its not exactly a secret anymore.

I feel I dodged a bullet by not going there. who wants to work like a slave and then be fired right BEFORE you vest. evil!

Re:Sun?

[glwtta]

Man, I KNOW -- they didn't hire me either. Totally evil.

And I even baked them a cake shaped like the internet!

A surprising move

[downix]

When I talked to some Solaris guys about MySQL, I had nothing but grief from them about it. They kept hyping up postgresql. Now I wonder if I log into that forum now if they shall change their tunes any.

Re:Sun?

[goose-incarnated]

then, see the brian reid story to confirm all this evilness about google.

I googled for it, but nothing really evil came up

Oh, wait ...

Licensing

[sribe]

Wow, MySQL owned by a company that doesn't lie about the GPL! This is welcome news!

Another sale this morning - BEA to Oracle

[(H)elix1]

Short version - Oracle offered 19.23 or so, and BEA said yes this morning. Big impact on a lot of Java EE developers out there.

Re:Rewrite in Java

[Grey_14]

Sure, like /dev/null is the fastest place to write backups to.

Great news

[Lisandro]

I can't wait for them to rewrite it in Java!

Re:Great news

[krow]

Not likely :)

Re:Sun?

[teknopurge]

Sun is the 2000 version of Bell Labs.

Google just makes beta applications.

Regards,

The Dot in .com

[PineHall]

From the blog it looks like Sun is trying to own a complete web solution. The blog makes a big deal out of getting the 'M' in LAMP. I think they want to be known as the dot in .com again, the place to go for web solutions.

Bank database that's not enterprise critical...

[Anonymous Coward]

The banks says they want safety and security - and you answer that your database isn't enterprise critical so why pay for Oracle? Management then says, ah well, how about MS SQL Server....

Any database at a bank that's not "enterprise critical" is bound to be less than 4GB in size, or else it would automatically be deemed "enterprise critical". Oracle gives away the XE database for free, but it has a 4GB size limit. I use XE for all kinds of stuff , even some "enterprise critical" applications in my organization where our big databases are the full Oracle Enterprise and Standard versions, but where I need something smaller and to run on separate boxen. The XE database has pretty much the full PL/SQL language support built-in and it's trivial to make over-the-net database links between XE and a big database so I can use simple SQL to remote tables to grab a subset of data from the big database without any cumbersome export/import junk in the middle.

Yes they all work like slaves

[BillGod]

Are you comparing working at google like being a slave in the 1800's? Must be the swimming pool, 5 star restaurant, lounge, roller hockey. I could go on but I think everyone here gets my point and agrees with you 100%

Re:Yes they all work like slaves

[TheGratefulNet]

the benefits are only there on the surface.

but what good are they if you are bound and 'forced' to work until 9pm each nite? or made to feel guilty if you DON'T stay for dinner and work a few hours after that.

all for the SAME PAY.

yes, its a slave life. you'll understand that when you get older (no insult intended; I didn't realize this until I hit over 40, myself.)

Re:Yes they all work like slaves

[Attaturk]

the benefits are only there on the surface. but what good are they if you are bound and 'forced' to work until 9pm each nite? or made to feel guilty if you DON'T stay for dinner and work a few hours after that. all for the SAME PAY. yes, its a slave life.

I'm not entirely sure you know what slavery is.

Re:Yes they all work like slaves

[FinestLittleSpace]

Very bad translation and it simplifies a very broad issue.

Working unpaid overtime is agreed in the contract at the start, at least here in the UK - whether legal or not in EU laws, you accept it. Some jobs I've accepted that as I've enjoyed the job enough to choose to do overtime for my enjoyment, knowing that the project wouldn't even get off the ground if it weren't for more-time-invested-than-is-money-in-the-pot. This type of work especially applies to advertising where the client doesn't have the funds but you want to produce, regardless of their funds, something really fantastic for your own pleasure/portfolio/learning. Some jobs I've refused unless overtime is paid in full - it depends on the nature of the work but it doesn't make you a chump to spend more time on a product than you're paid because you know career wise (CV, portfolio work) it will pay dividends.

If you feel so strongly about unpaid overtime, don't sign a contract saying that you'll do it for free.

As a manager of a coding team I have always made it extremely clear to project managers that they are getting no overtime out of my team unless the team consent to it or the accounts team agree overtime pay. I'm all for defending teams and readily do so and discourage overtime by quoting realistic deadlines, so this way if they choose to work overtime, they're not 'chumps', they're just keen on the work.

It's also worth noting that in the past I have worked overtime because someone /else/ in the chain of work is putting more hours in than they are being granted in pay. So sometimes it's as much about caring for your fellow colleagues as it is being a 'chump'.

It's amazing how some people on Slashdot seem to have a cube mentality which suggests that work is a sterile, non-interactive environment. It really isn't in my experience.

Re:Rewrite in Java

[LarsWestergren]

Damn it! Now they will rewrite it in Java. It will no longer be the fastest database engine, after the rewrite, it will certainly be the slowest.

Sun already has an embeddable db engine written in Java called Derby. It has pretty impressive features and performance.

Re:Sun?

[Shakrai]

MySQL performs small tasks very quickly, but doesn't scale that well to large tasks

Doesn't Slashdot use MySQL on the backend? Doesn't Google use it for some stuff?

Might it have been more fair to say "PostgreSQL scales better then MySQL" then "MySQL doesn't scale well"?

Re:Great news

[Jerry]

Another advantage of PostgreSQL is that it's SQL syntax is 95% or more compatible with Oracle's.

I am using QT4/C++ with PostgreSQL/Oracle. The source uses compiler defines to select the relevant database and to make appropriate changes in syntax for things like nested CODE/DECODE, etc. It can compile unchanged on either Linux or Windows and runs the same way on both, with identical look & feel. I use MS VS 2003 on Windows and QDevelop or Kate on Linux.

IMO, for all light to medium (and some heavy) applications PostgreSQL is more than adequate. It is a LOT easier to maintain and is auto-tuning. It's license precludes any corporation from buy out PostgreSQL and taking control of it, although corporations can utilize it with their proprietary extensions to make a specialized product.

Brian Reid - time bomb in Scribe

[byolinux]

Reid agreed to insert a set of time-dependent functions (called "time bombs") that would deactivate freely copied versions of the program after a 90-day expiration date. To avoid deactivation, users paid the software company, which then issued a code that defused the internal time-bomb feature.

<sarcasm>What a guy!</sarcasm>

Re:Great news

[Henkc]

Exactly, nor does it support industry standard SQL elements. MySQL hops around like a hobbled horse, with the authors claiming a fourth leg isn't needed to be a true RDBMS... Utter crap.

Sure.

[hey!]

Here's one that I've noticed, and which other database professionals I've talked to have corroborated. Access, when executing a query against an outside database, sometimes confuses an unique constraint as a candidate primary key. This seems like a teeny little quibble, but it has really bad consequences.

Consider the columns (a,b) and the value (a = X, b is null). If (a,b) is part of the primary key, the value (X,NULL) cannot occur in a table. But the idea of "uniqueness" is not as well defined in relational theory. Can the values (X,NULL) occur if (a,b) is constrained to be unique? Well, probably. Can it occur more than once? Now that turns out to be a very interesting question.

Let's consider a single column (s), where s is defined to be unique, but is allowed to be null. (s) cannot be part of the primary key of course, but can null occur more than once in the table? The answer is, yes, for both practical and theoretical reasons. The practical reason is that this turns out to be a quite useful behavior. Suppose s represents a social security number on a person record. In some cases that person has declined to provide is SSN, in which case we must put a null in that column. So two or more people can provide null for their social security number, thus many rows can have null there; but if two people provide the SAME SSN, that's an error.

The theoretical justification for nulls behavior in unique constraints comes from that fact that the expression (null == null) should evaluate to false. The expression (s = null) is ALWAYS false, even if the column s happens to contain null. That is because null as a value has special meanings; it can mean "doesn't apply" or "don't know". If s is the SSN, and record a and record b both have null in them, then how do we interpret the expression (a.s = b.s)? If it means do the records for a and b have the same value in column s, you'd want it to be true. If it means does person a have the same ssn as person b, you'd want it to be an error. If it means is person a known to have the same ssn as person b, you'd want the answer to be no. Each of these interpretations has its justifications, but the last one is the one that is ultimately the most practical. If we want to test whether a column is null, we must use the "is" operator, not the equality operator.

So, the apparently minor distinction between key candidacy and uniqueness is quite large if any of the columns involved are allowed to contain nulls.

Now, for the practical consequences of getting this wrong. If you use Access' GUI tools to build queries against tables in an external database, Access when running that query does not allow the external database to optimize the query. You need to do a pass through for that. Instead, Access attempts to optimize the query itself, particularly I/O over the database link, which is presumably expensive.

So lets say table p is people and table r is region, and both tables are held on an Oracle database. I want to do a query which joins person to region to make a table of names and the regions they live in. Now it happens that Alice (person #25) and Bob (person #82) live in the same region, "North". The query correctly spits out ("Alice","North"), then continues on to Bob's record. Now it turns out that both Alice and Bob have refused to supply the SSN, so they both have null in column s.

What happens next is pretty mysterious, but I think we can infer two things. First, Access gets the issue of (null = null) wrong; at least some parts of Access do some of the time. Second, Access may be attempting to reduce external I/O, but it somehow tracks by what it thinks is the primary key. Whatever the cause, one often gets the sequence:

("Alice","North")
("Alice","North")

instead of:

("Alice","North")
("Bob","North")

which would be the correct one.

Oops.

I'd give you more information on reproducing this, but I don't use Access much. Like I said, I have talked to other da

Re:Great news

[jdfox]

MySQL dropped BerkeleyDB support back in version 5.1.12 (24 October 2006). MyISAM is still the default engine, and for many common applications is still a good choice. They are exposed long-term over the InnoDB purchase, but only for transactional apps, and there are several good candidates available that might replace it. Oracle are in no hurry to bury a major revenue source until the strategic advantages of doing so outweigh the short-term benefits of selling InnoDB into companies that wouldn't have bought Oracle anyway.

Spreadsheet/Database

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

A few thoughts about spreadsheets as databases and the like...

• The original marketing of Lotus 123 stressed its use as a database. 123 stood for 1=spreadsheet, 2=database. and 3=word processor. Excel still has 13 choices on its |Data menu. Lotus was a bloody awful word processor. Copy Con was better.
• Back in the early DOS days, I used to use a flat file database called Professional File a lot. dBaseIII was overkill for what I needed.
• In the later Dos days I was using Quattro Pro a lot for my spreadsheet work. I also used it for inventory lists, but hardware limitations, both RAM and drive storage were a problem when spreadsheet databases got over 200 records. Paradox worked better both for loading in memory and for much smaller file size than Quattro Pro for the same number of records.
• In spite of its many faults, I use Access for mail merge data rather than the @#$%ing awful thing in Word.
• I use Access for a database more than I use Excel, but sometimes Excel is simpler.
• I would love to see a single-user desktop database program with modest relational capabilities, intuitive query and report functions, and decent ability to import and export data.

SQLite Gui_

[xtracto]

Yup, I think SQLite is a great alternative against Access, however could someone suggest a good GUI for SQLite with similar properties as MS Access? I am not looking for a clone but a program in which my mom could make her simple databases without knowing SQL programming language. Access allows her to do that, but if I want to migrate to Linux there is no alternative. I know that the guys at KDE have some nice apps in developemnt, but I am looking for an application in the lines of "mature" sourceforge status.

Re:SQLite Gui_

[misleb]

Question: Does your mom effectively use MS Access now?

I would question whether it is even possible to make a GUI for any database that a) is easy to use, b) provides enough options to make a wide variety of applications, and c) requires no knowledge of SQL or database design. This is one of those "pick two" situations. Even Access requires a fair amount of skill to use properly... far more than Word or Excel. And even with a modicum of skill, databases produced in MS Access tend to be horrible abominations. What could a SQLite GUI do better?

-matthew

Re:SQLite Gui_

[xtracto]

Question: Does your mom effectively use MS Access now?

The answer is Yes. But of course the answer depends on what you mean by "effectively". My mom uses access effectively for her needs. She can start a database with one of the wizards and then modify it a bit using the GUI. She has a *very very* small knowledge of keys and tables and overal database structure (which I taught her). Overall, she knows whatever is necessary to know to acomplish her tasks.

The idea of a GUI is to make it easy and intuitive to execute certain tasks. Access does that quite well, even if the .MDB file format is not very good, it is good enough (something for what Microsoft is characterized). However there is no other GUI good enough for users such as my mom (unless you count Excel)

Re:SQLite Gui_

[Abcd1234]

And why not just use MySQL?

1. Completely free for embedding (the embedded version of MySQL has license fees, AFAIK).
2. Easier to move databases between machines (they're endian-neutral, monolithic files).
3. Supports more of SQL92.
4. Far lighter in terms of resource consumption.

I'm sure there's plenty of other reasons, but for a certain subset of problem domains, SQLite is an *excellent* solution, IMHO.

'course, that's not to say it's perfect. It has a quirky typing system, and it's locking is extremely rudimentary. But for your average Access user, it's probably more than sufficient as a data storage engine.

Normalization has practical limitations

[zooblethorpe]

The practical reason is that this turns out to be a quite useful behavior. Suppose s represents a social security number on a person record. In some cases that person has declined to provide is SSN, in which case we must put a null in that column. So two or more people can provide null for their social security number, thus many rows can have null there; but if two people provide the SAME SSN, that's an error.

Or you could normalize the data. If you're expecting missing SSN's from multiple people, a separate SSN table would be required. This table would contain two columns - PersonID and SSN. A person without a SSN listed would not be included in the table, thus solving the multi-null problem.

Sure, but excessive normalization can also be a pain in the arse. Theoretically speaking, complete normalization throughout would obviate any need for NULL. Practically speaking, this is unreasonable, given the resulting complexity and increased time required for queries and other operations -- which is why databases still use NULL. As the GP noted, allowing NULL values "turns out to be a quite useful behavior."

Cheers,

New SUN tagline...

[Anonymous Coward]

"We are the S in LAMP !"

But you can email a copy to coworkers

[wsanders]

If it gets messy at 100K likes, you can just email a copy to all your coworkers to collaborate in debugging.

Sheesh, doesn't EVERYONE do it this way?

This is *good* news.

[Qbertino]

The truth is:
Sun can't possibly screw around more than MySQL AB has been doing ever since they went IPO. Just the other day I looked for MySQL Workbench - expecting it to be delayed yet another 2 years. Only to discover something worse: A beta is out and they've written in in DOt-f*cking-NET! Can you believe it? They've rewritten MySQLs core selling argument to many people in a prorpietary plattform that is owned by MS. MySQLs core design tool only runs on MS 2k SP4 and above! Unbelievable.
Suns marketing is just as shoddy as that of MySQL, so that's a perfect fit. But I sure do hope Sun will bring back some technical oper-source superiority to MySQL, which it once shared with many mature OSS projects.

What is Sun up to?

[walterbyrd]

Web-hosting of sorts, would be my quess. I don't mean hosting like dreamhost. I mean more along the lines of utility computing. Sun won't just sell web-space, sun will work closely with it's clients.

Sun has been going open source lately. To make money in F/OSS you sell services, not products. Sun has also announced that sun will be outsourcing their data centers. I think Sun means to expand their data centers a lot, and wants to save money.

A lot of major companies already contract with Sun to run database apps on Sun servers. Those servers are located in Sun's buildings. Sun then contracts with EDS to do the hands-on administration of servers. EDS often contracts with other companies, including a lot of off-shore companies. The datacenters do not have to be offshore, just the people who monitor the systems, and do all the admin work that does not have to be hands-on.

I think Sun may be targeting smaller company, not just banks and the like.

So let's say I want to start a SaaS company to offer hotel management software. Since I don't have a lot money, and I don't want to pay for a lot of computer resources, to get started, I decide to use PHP and MySQL to develop my product. Since this is a commercial offering, I will need to have a commercial version of MySQL, this is where Sun will have me covered. Sun itself will do very little, Sun will contract with other companies to provide back-end support. Sun will hold the licenses to the OS, and the database, and maybe the language - if you decide to use Java. Sun will be the middle-man, the deal maker. Sun will change it's focus from selling hw/sw, to contracting for sevices, and those services will be provided by others.

Or something along those lines, is what I'm guessing.

Re:Great news

[smchris]

I started with C/S on Oracle too and I've noticed that. I think it's one reason I like PostgreSQL and find MySQL annoying. So why do people like MySQL? Is it familiar to people who started with SQL Server or something? Or just the first db they encountered when they picked up a LAMP book?

Re:Rewrite in Java

[dens]

...and it comes with java 6 as javadb.

I sure hope...

[EkriirkE]

...that they don't make start migrating it to Java technologies. I want a FAST database.