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Monkey's Thoughts Make Robot Walk
geekbits writes "For all those who have at one time or another been too lazy to get up off the couch and go to the fridge and get a beer, heat up some pizza, or change the channel when the remote is missing, we may be one step closer to being able to keep our tushes parked just a little while longer. There may also be some slightly more noble implications here. According to an article in The New York Times, in an experiment at Duke University, a 12-pound, 32-inch monkey made a 200-pound, 5-foot humanoid robot walk on a treadmill using only her brain activity. She was in North Carolina, and the robot was in Japan."
Being able to read the monkey's brain sounds like the only innovation here, not making the robot walk. Reading between the lines, it doesn't sound like the monkey is really controlling the robot in any real sense at all.
Several things make me question that. One, why is the robot in north Carolina and the monkey in Japan? It's just for show. Nothing of scientific significance is being demonstrated by that. We all know that internet can connect two gizmos across large distances. The experiment could have been conducted much more simply at one location and made no less effective a point (except to clueless investors maybe).
Secondly, because of the distance, there is a significant delay (TFA says 250ms, about what I might have guessed.) This would seem to preclude the monkey being able to control the robots actuators in any direct sense. I.e. lift thigh, swing lower leg forward, position foot, lower thigh, positioning body over front leg. Walking is a "controlled fall". No way you could issue all those commands 250ms ahead of seeing or feeling their effect. You'd trip and fall.
So, what is the monkey really doing? I doubt if he is even thinking "left, right, left, right" because even that would be hard to coordinate with so much lag.
Finally, why is there a damn robot in the first place? Wouldn't it be much easier to have the commands control a computer animation? You could do that in such a way that the model would look much more interesting to the monkey... it could look like another monkey, a giant walking banana, whatever.
My guess is that they are simply getting a binary command value from the monkey: "walk" or "don't walk". And the whole robot thing is just for effect. I hate to be such a cynic but this looks like showmanship, not science. If that is the case then this is equivalent to the simple video games that have been demonstrated using brain control.
However, I could certainly imagine that the journalist totally failed to understand the experiment and maybe something important was lost in his explanation of it.
...but the feedback was lousy.
Monkey : Move Foot Forward
600ms later...
Robot : OK....Oh no, I'm falling over, quick move the other foot
600ms later...
Monkey : Move Other Foot Forward
600ms later...
Robot : I can't do that dave, I've fallen over
Although I assume in actuallity they left most of the balance control to the robot end of things; either that or the Monkey was psychic.
(Or more likely they've got a nice low-latency academic link)
Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
In Soviet Russia, monkey control you!
What the article fails to stress properly, is that the robot had no other power supply other than the monkeys supercharged thoughts.
SUre controlling the robot with your brain is kind of cool, but when it has no power supply - now that's cool!
..........FULL STOP.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/01/14/science/0115-sci-ROBOTa_large.jpg
Tell me that graphic didn't come from The Onion.
-1 not first post
It would be interesting to see how they mapped the neurons -> robot. Something like this:
Neuron Mapping Factor Adjustment(TM):
Direct Neuron Mapping |-------||---| "Thinking about walking patterns" triggers robot walking code.
Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
I, for one, welcome our new monkey-controlled robot overlords.
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides, your legs got nothing to do. Some machine, doing that for you.
I thought monkey hates technology...
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
A way for all those addicted to MMOs to be even more incapable of doing anything else...
I like how the NYT article includes a video of the robot, but not of the monkey. What they don't want everyone to see is some heavily drugged up monkey with all manner of electrodes protruding out of its brain (possibly exposed). Way to sanitize reality so most people will find it palatable. What's the point of the robot anyway? This essentially seems like a brain mapping exercise. So the the monkey brain could have been mapped to anything, including a simple animation.
I want my robot to do my house work and fetch me beer and food, not hang from the light fitting and throw faeces at me.
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
Fetch me a banana now or I will destroy your planet!!!
.. for the 500 ft, fire breathing, radioactive robot due to be terrorizing Tokyo in the next Japanese B-Movie.
The basic idea is quite simple: start by sampling a whole bunch of neurons (usually a local EEG or fMRI of some sort). Then,
In humans, obtain two recordings (one blank and one while thinking about doing X), then diff the two and map to X'.
In monkeys, also get two recordings (one blank and one while doing X), then diff the two and also map to X', hoping that doing X reads the same as thinking about doing X.
You'd need to repeat these steps a bunch of times to get good signal to noise, and also need several controls (thinking about Y, Z) to make sure the mapping is specific enough. Normally, the technique is just good enough to allow quadriplegics to click buttons and such, but takes lots of effort and patience (and lots of costly equipment).
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Those scientists might have gotten hit with whatever could be robot poop.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
Planet-of-the-Apes-in-a-Matrix-world movie plot. Anyone ?
I didn't see "Monkey's". Even if I'd seen "Monkeys'", I'd think several monkeys in series, but not in unison/parallel/hive/collective. I'm thinking BORG VINCULUM. As described by one 7of9 (oh, I wish she were mine...)... anyway...
I see an infinite number of monkeys (chimpanzees) and an infinite number of T9-alloy exoskeletons, and I STILL don't see War and Peace. I see WAR and PIECES (of battle-wrecked exoskeletons...
NO, I not am on durgs.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
i was looking at this today: http://sciencehack.com/videos/view/TK1WBA9Xl3c
watch after 0:44, the monkey learnt how to control the robotic arm with its thoughts in order to feed itself:)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I_QsCXm1vrk
Ah, a mind-diff. Thanks for the info :)
Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
Just one actual guy with a Sousaphone can now control an entire robotic marching band. Won't that be spectacular on 5th Avenue in November?
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Call me when you can get a monkey to make Supreme Court appointments.
Oh wait...
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
So you mean they need to get a woman to do this then? Can you just see a man doing it?
Step 1: Take reading "thinking of nothing" (in reality thinking of banging female researcher)
Step 2: Take reading "thinking of walking" (thinking of banging female researcher on treadmill)
Step 3: Lose funding when you can't explain why the robot keeps doing, ahem - what it is doing
...and the poo was flung as far as South Korea.
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
I for one welcome our new robot-controlling, monkey overlords. And on a serious note, I heard something similar being done about 10 years ago, people could be hooked up to a machine and would use a certain brain pulse or something to move a train around a track.
--Insert witty statement---
Sounds like a good concept, but I don't understand how to get a monkey on the other side of the world to think about getting me my beer and pizza?
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
How is this less impressive than George W Bush walking?
He is certainly a monkey and he manages not only to walk but apparently dress himself too!
Let's see those monkeys make the robots fling poo!
Cheers,
RM
Nobody's as dumb, as I appear to be
Actually, all it does is link brainwave A to Flag 1, wave B to Flag 2, and so on. It doesn't know what you are thinking about in reality as long as the waveform is reasonably unique and can be identified and flagged.
Instead of walking and standing, you could think of goatse and tubgirl. As long as you are consistent, thoughts of goatse will always make the robot walk and tubgirl will make it stop.
Monkeys' Thoughts Make Robot Walk
We've had a monkey running American government for 7 years now.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I remember hearing about this information many many years ago, when they had managed to get the monkey to control a robot arm. It seems they are moving up in the world, or, as the poster above states, they are merely programming a robot to walk and a monkey to think "walk." Regardless, the six-year-old article, http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2000/monkeys-1206.html/ gives some context to what they have been doing.
Adapt, adopt, or get out of the way!
In particular, in dangerous areas, such as Nukes, police incursions, or even on the battle field. Perhaps one of the more interesting ones will be on the moon. THe delay is short enough that a group of ppl can be trained to slow down their reaction and then uses these for doing construction. I suspect that it might even be interesting in space. Want to fix some something on the outside of the ISS or bigelow? Just control the robot from inside.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
...and monkeys really could fly out of my ass.
Table-ized A.I.
Well I guess that answered that. Now what about the "Ninja vs Pirate" question?
Robots always crave the blood of those who control them. Monkeys don't get a free ride.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
Call me when the robot can control the monkey with its android thoughts.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
an army of these robot monkeys..... :D
The question is whether the link between North Carolina and Japan was compromised by a Monkey in the Middle attack.
*Yawn* Robot Monkey overlords... something about welcoming... you know the drill. I don't feel like writing it all out.
This sig is false.
A monkey made me type this response by controlling my fingers on the keyboard, so don't blame me.
I for one welcome our new touch-typing simian overlords...
So, we already put weapons on robots, and now we're giving the robots to the monkeys. Logically, the next step will be monkey-controlled robots with weapons.
And I thought the holodeck would be the last thing we ever invented...
And we are now one step closer to that robot monkey butler!
I just read Slashdot for the articles.
The mind boggles.
To boldly use to and too two times and get it right too! They're not gonna believe their eyes when they see it there!
Five foot robots are so last year. Now, five assed robots...
and it's insulting to monkeys to suggest that he is. He is (unfortunately, IMO) a member of the species arrogant enough to call itself "homo sapiens sapiens". In math, one counter-example is enough to disprove a hypothesis. Certainly GW is enough of a counter-example to disprove the intelligence (or wisdom) of the species (which doesn't prevent some, very few, apparently, instances of the species from being intelligent).
For some reason this reminds me of this story. Ah yes, the memories. You kids wouldn't understand.
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
one banana at a time.
A robot? The monkeys are supposed to control typewriters. Once an infinite number of them are thusly connected, and only then, can we finally determine if they will produce all the great books.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
1. Clone infinite number of monkeys
2. Use new monkey-brain interface to connect to typewriters
3. Wait for all great books to be written
4. ???
5. Profit!!!
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of my employer, my spouse, my children, or my cats.
If the robot weighs 200 lbs and is only 5 ft tall, I think the robot is the lazy one. It's about time it got on a treadmill.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Oh noes. You mean swallowing my tongue isn't going to help anymore when the thought police come around??? Don't turn around... oh oh oh
This is a combination of previous works.
/.ers, research on walking robot seems so common in Japan that it's probably the second national sport (right after "girls in school uniform fetishism" ^_^ )
Monkey mind reading has been done before.
Monkey controlling a robotic arm has been done before too, and as far as I remember, the monkey even got it to the point of controlling the robotic arm without moving herself.
Remote controlling of robots has been done before (trans-atlantic surgery operation, the surgeon operating the robot in the US and the patient being in Europe).
And as pointed by other
What's the point of this study ? Combining all this together.
- It's the first time brain waves are used to control a movement as complicated as walking.
Thus, this is a technical demo that brings closer hopes for paralysed patients. (As a different solution than spinal nerves regrowth).
--> (The previous experiments where robotic-arm only, thus potential application only to amputees).
- It's the first time that brain-waves remote controlling is attempted.
The inputs are much more complex and much more abundant compared to the current joystick-controlled robots.
This technical demo proves that the latency and bandwidth can cope with brainwave-control, although with a lag that maybe won't be short enough for reflex based movements.
But it is still opening interesting possibilities :
Just replace the monkey with a scientist and the treadmill environment with either some dangerous environment or some miniaturised one or a remote place where the scientist expertise is not readily available.
--> Current controls of robots (like the one used in surgery) are joystick based. Although there are still a lot of movement that can easily be performed with such controls, there are some limitation. Natural movement that are mapped to a robot through brainwave control could bring much more agility.
Also a lot of additional things have to be controlled in a surgical robot (camera motions for example). For now they are still controller with the same pair of joystick (because, you see, a surgeon has only 2 hands to hold them) and using a combination of pedals to switch what the inputs are controlling.
With such brainwave-control technology, other movement could be mapped to the camera control (I think head motions could be the most natural ones) leaving the hand motion free to continue controlling the instruments.
So, no there are no revolutionary new technologies involved here.
But its a new combination of technologies that represent a nice step toward very promising applications.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I for one welcome our remote monkey robot overlords!
I for one would like to welcome our monkey-controlled cybernetic overlords.
F_T
How are you gentlemen!!
All your banana are belong to us.
You are on the way to the complete works of Shakespeare.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
I, for one -- banana banana want me banana give now banana -- Jojo, stop i -- GIVE NOW BANANA ME BANANA GIVE.
Thank You SLASHDOT for sharing this !!!
This Monkey controlled robot is great news !!!
Get excited, our Emancipation from the Machinery of Economy
can occur in 5 years when you GET INVOLVED and CREATE the DEMAND
for THE ROBOTIC WAGELESS ECONOMY ,
when you, talk to others and MAKE IT AN ISSUE for our LEADERS...
It just plain makes sense !!!
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The Future is already here, just unevenly distributed... THE ROBOTIC WAGELESS ECONOMY NOW! http://RoboEco.com/slash
This topic becomes a lot more interesting if you ignore both TFA and the summary.
Then you can imagine that robots have been designed to think like monkeys, which I think we can all agree, would be the substance of the article, in a world better than the one we are currently living in.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
It is not the monkey's fault he can't coordinate and plan several steps in advance to get many multiple commands a second out to its robot units. And with all the negative reinforcement, people on the internet "shocking the monkey" when he didn't do right, well who can blame the poor monkey.
If they really wanted a good test, they would have used a champion Starcraft player from South Korea! Talk about reflexes and planning. These guys can issue so many commands a second it boggles the mind.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
The signals in the brain are calling to learned motion patterns stored remotely in the ganglia (little brain-like things attached to the spine). A good computer analogy would be shader programs--the software makes very vague system calls (render these triangles), which cause separate (shader) programs to actually draw the graphics from inside the video card.
What these guys are doing is capturing the "system calls" from the brain, and sending them to *their own* central pattern generators in the robot. According to TFA, these CPGs were trained by data-mining a correlation between the monkey's motion (picked up with standard motion-capture methods) and the firing of its neurons. So, the first step is actually to train the robot to obey the monkey's brain.
What happens next is the really interesting part, though. The monkey's brain quickly realizes that it is controlling two separate things (the monkey and the robot), and moves the control for the legs to different neurons so it can control them separately. This is why, when they stopped the monkey's treadmill, it was able to keep controlling the robot without moving its own legs.
This research isn't all that new, though. Something similar was done a while back (maybe a year ago?) where they had a monkey controlling an extra arm through the same type of system. Before that, there was a study on epilepsy patients that involved the same brain sensors, where humans were able to control a mouse cursor after trying for about one minute. IMHO, this problem was completely solved long before this project; electronic control outputs from the brain just happened to be one of those things that are way easier than they look.
What someone really needs to do now is get an electronic brain *input* that works this well, and doesn't cause seizures or degradation over time. Once that's done, then some really amazing stuff will start to be possible.
Besides just being able to control machines with your thoughts, or having an in-head network connection, or some other such nonsense, this is one of the technologies that could truly make it possible to live forever, for people who are alive today. If one's whole cerebral cortex is wired to a computer that's emulating (get this) more brain, then it's going to do exactly what it does with the robot, and start using it. Since most of the brain naturally tries to maximize its redundancy, you'd get a hybrid digital-biological brain that could be trained over time to work both together and separately. Assuming that they're together when you "die", then that one thread of consciousness will simply continue to exist on the digital side, and you will survived death. At this point, you can get in your robot and go do stuff, or run around in some kind of digital world. Of course, computer hardware today would not be able to do this, but in 10-15 years it could very well be possible using just consumer stuff (and will definitely be possible using a server).
As a side bonus, it will also cause a very entertaining political flamewar, when the fundies realize that there's a machine that traps your soul. Of course they will go insane trying to stop it, and there will be a big debate about the property rights of "dead" people...
It's interesting how thought recognition is merging with machines. As mentioned earlier, a monkey's leg movement brain signals control a robot across the planet, http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=monkey+legs+%22brain+signals%22+control+robot&btnG=Search and another monkey mentally controls a robotic arm to feed itself. http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=monkey+mentally+controls+a+robotic+arm+to+feed+itself+&btnG=Search Meanwhile, Eric Ramsay, completely conscious but paralyzed and only able to move his eyes Since 1999 is using a new computer/ brain interface to reads his brain signals. As he thinks about vocal sounds, they are translated in real time. The goal is conversation, by making it possible for him to literally think out loud. http://simplyted.blogspot.com/2007/11/as-speech-recognition-software-morphs.htm He may one day be searching Google, surfing the web, texting his friends, making new friends and maybe show up on Facebook. But as electrodes give way to a skull cap, things like wireless searching, texting, messaging, http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Twitter+is%22&btnG=Search Twitter, Facebook etc., could become a thumbless, mental exchange. I can hardly wait for the Blue-Toothers' http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q='BlueToothers'+&btnG=Search to discover this. I mean it's freaky to watch someone striding down a street, or sitting alone at a table having a conversation with the ether. (Chuckle at this short video.) http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Finally%2C+I+know+exactly+how+to+deal+with+bluetoothers%22&btnG=Search Simultaneously, some powerful new exoskeletons are about to overflow from military applications to consumer products. http://video.google.com/videosearch?num=100&so=4&hl=en&q=robotic+Exoskeleton+duration%3Ashort&start=0 My favorite is Sarcos exoskeleton. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Sarcos+Exoskeleton&search=Search No need for a joystick or hand controls. You just wear it, and it mirrors your actions. You can pump a couple hundred pounds, run, box, dance and carry heavy loads up stairs. It doubles as an autonomous robot. Soon they'll park in the garage next to the car or maybe take up a corner in the living room waiting for intruders. This technology is primed to make the link between thought and superhuman abilities as extensions of our bodies. Follow news on thought controlled exoskeletons here. http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=thought+controlled+exoskeleton&btnG=Search
Thoughts on the Emergence of Computing Intelligence
Call me when you can get a monkey to make Supreme Court appointments.
That would be beneath any self-respecting monkey.
Indeed, it's beneath any self-respecting human too, but lawyers being a sub-moronic class more related to vampires are of course an exception.
Why didnt they show a picture of the monkey hooked up and walking, or there thinking? in the video they use a cgi monkey, where is the real one? Kevin
comment first?
Mech Warriors?
Monkey overlords?
I give up.
Always value the individual over the system. --Bruce Lee "I don't need a Sig - I have a custom 191" - me
Ghost in the Shell reference
Exciting stuff.
If you'd just do what we tell you and quit yer gripin' everything would be chocolate sprinkles and rainbows! -AC
From the jargon file:
I can move my arms with my thoughts already.
The next logical step is to put the monkey inside the robot, then stress test the motors by weighing it down with metal plates etc.
Scientists have now given the powers of the Robot to the Monkey. Now it is time for scientists to splice the DNA from Pirates and Ninjas. In the future, armies of Robot-Monkeys will battle the clone armies of the Ninja-Pirates for the fate of all mankind.
What word rhymes with buried alive?
the invading mechas obsession for bananas
Am I really the only one who instantly thought of the military sprouting a batallion of thought-controlled robotic troops? They are more resilient, stronger than human troops, and their speed can be enhanced over time. This not only prevents, it can effectively eliminate war casualties. Whoever can build both sides of the technology faster will end up with a strategic advantage and all you need(provided that the control interface is perfected to accept input from the human cortex) is a bunch of FPS enthusiasts.
Microsoft put the "sucks" in "success".
On this subject, read Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan. A very interesting look at a future world where consciousness can be digitised, and installed in any body ("sleeve"). Highly recommend this book, it's excellent
"Life is pain Highness. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something"
Westly, The Princess Bride
In some parts of the world, it would be cheaper to use humans to control robots than to deploy computers to do the same job? Is this a new dimension of offshore outsourcing?
Um... last I checked, humans only had 2 feet, not 5. ;)
Others have already pointed out the implications of the delay. So it's not 'telepresence'. In fact, I would suggest that the monkey received no feedback other than seeing a video of the robot.
... a different kind of application.
Sounds more like a replication application where one worker assembles parts at one workstation and 500 robots wired to the worker assemble identical items at their identically furnished stations
A 'marching army of monkeys' application!
Mein Führer, I can walk!
Outside from the completely crazy costs of the concept (you'll have to build one robot with tank-like resistance for each controller-soldier) and the material advantage an adversary may get by capturing one,
the biggest draw back is the latency.
For slow and controlled motions like in the context of scientists or doctors using remote controlled robots, there's not much problem. Just as long as they don't move to fast to be still able to control the motions even with the lag.
For reflex based fast movement that have to be quickly corrected based on fast feed-back loops, like running, jumping or walking, and especially on irregular surfaces, the response won't be fast enough. All those motions are forms of "controlled fall" where the body isn't actually kept on balance on 2 feet, but thrown forward.
So, for now, either the controller soldier aren't far way behind the robots (or even, inside the robots themselves, Evangelion plug/Japanese mecha-style) and you lose a lot of the advantage of the robots.
Or the robots will have to rely on a more lag-resilient form of propulsion, and you basically end up with a bunch of Daleks which will fail at the first occurrence of steps.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
A system of imperial: manufacturing, banking and/or religious corporations have been controlling politicians for centuries; who, in turn, have been shoving around the little people.
Not content with controlling the masses - the politicians finally get to control robots too.
RR
Copula eame se non posit acceptara jocularem.
I think the idea of helping paralyzed people walk is great and all, but we all know where this is going. When the monkeys rise up against humanity they will not be running around hitting people with sticks. No, they are going to be running around in armored robotic suits, swiftly enslaving the human race. Am I paranoid? Probably. Am I wrong? Probably not.