Slashdot Mirror


Internet Group Declares War on Scientology

Darkman, Walkin Dude writes "An internet group calling itself Anonymous has declared war on the Church of Scientology, in the form of an ominous posting to the YouTube site. 'In the statement, the group explained their goal as safeguarding the right to freedom of speech. "A spokesperson said that the group's goals include bringing an end to the financial exploitation of Church members and protecting the right to free speech, a right which they claim was consistently violated by the Church of Scientology in pursuit of its opponents." The press release also claimed that the Church of Scientology misused copyright and trademark law in order to remove criticism from websites including Digg and YouTube. The statement goes on to assert that the attacks from the group "will continue until the Church of Scientology reacts, at which point they will change strategy".' It should be noted that Slashdot users have had interactions with Scientology in the past as well."

86 of 891 comments (clear)

  1. RIAA by paganizer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hopefully the RIAA will be next. Sure they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot a lot lately, but they still need to be wiped out.

    --
    Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
    1. Re:RIAA by MrNemesis · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even better; tell the RIAA that the Church of Scientology is a massive front for copying CD's. Simultaneously, tell the scientologists that the RIAA are planning to clone Xenu from some evil thetans that were surgically extracted from Britney.

      Unstoppable force, meet immovable object. Space DC-10's dropping atom bombs on volcanoes will be nothing compared to those fireworks :)

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    2. Re:RIAA by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe not wiped out, but their pool might get closed.

    3. Re:RIAA by cashman73 · · Score: 4, Funny
      Even better; tell the RIAA that the Church of Scientology is a massive front for copying CD's. Simultaneously, tell the scientologists that the RIAA are planning to clone Xenu from some evil thetans that were surgically extracted from Britney.

      Where can I buy tickets to that event? I want front row seats!

    4. Re:RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ticketmaster. Unfortunately, there's a $1000 service fee per ticket.

    5. Re:RIAA by sm62704 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      tell the scientologists that the RIAA are planning to clone Xenu from some evil thetans that were surgically extracted from Britney.

      That might work if the people who ran Scientology actually believed in their own garbage. I don't believe they do. I believe the whole organization is a money making scam.

      -mcgrew

      PS- yes I got the joke, I'm just in a bad mood today.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    6. Re:RIAA by MrNemesis · · Score: 4, Funny

      I know it's terrible form to reply to oneself, but I've just realised* that "The Church of Scientology" is an anagram of "Tech go filch tunes, cry ooh!" - if that isn't enough evidence for an RIAA lawsuit of titanic proportions I don't know what is.

      * i.e. put it into the anagram finder at wordsmith.org

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    7. Re:RIAA by genik76 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where do you get the figure of two million neo-Nazis from? Accroding to the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution) there are 10.400 registered neo-Nazis in Germany (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonazi). I have lived in Germany for over 5 years, and have never seen neo-Nazis running around on the street, just in the newspapers and tv.

    8. Re:RIAA by HomerJ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Does the phrase "Hotdog down a hallway" mean anything to you?

    9. Re:RIAA by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Believe me, the RIAA are delightful sweethearts next to the CoS. The RIAA may sue you; but they won't hire private detectives to dig up dirt on you, have you thrown in prison on bogus charges, publicly smear you as a child molester, lobby the Vice-President to impose sanctions on your whole country, or have you killed.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    10. Re:RIAA by Tom · · Score: 5, Informative

      Note also, that the German government is much more concerned about dealing with the 20,000 or so Scientologists there, rather than the 2 million or so neo-Nazis. As much as I dislike our current government, this is simply not true.

      One, a long list of neo-nazi organisations have been outlawed, scientology has not.
      Two, where do you get your numbers? 2 mio is totally bonkers. A couple hundred thousand is what I'd guess, and I live here.
      Three, both the government and the media talk about neo-nazis a lot more than about scientology.

      Wherever you got your opinion, you should return it for a refund.
      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  2. Anonymous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Cowards.

    1. Re:Anonymous? by Applekid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Considering those openly opposed to Scientology wind up harassed, publicly smeared, thrown in jail, or made dead due to the Fair Game policy, I don't blame them.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    2. Re:Anonymous? by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      These are the same kids who harassed a girl in chatsworth who demands money from men (google "goddessmine" or read this). They did a video gloating about how they took down her server and reported her sketchy (but apparently profitable) dominatrix business to the IRS, and called and hassled the cops who she called to protect her. I don't know what to think about this -- I'm glad someone is taking on Co$, but I'm a little worried these kids are going to get their asses kicked. It's one thing to take down a server that belongs to a nineteen year old girl with self-esteem issues; it's quite another to take on a phony religious organization with a staff of lawyers the size of some third world countries' entire military forces and a history of predatory legal action against its enemies that goes back about twice the amount of time these kids have been alive. But, hey, more power to them!

    3. Re:Anonymous? by Fizzl · · Score: 5, Funny

      *SWOOOOSH*

    4. Re:Anonymous? by Knara · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, it stems from the imageboard software used for 4chan (and its predecessors) having anonymous posting as the default state (and sometimes the only accepted state for posting). "Anonymous" as a sort of collective entity took that moniker and ran with it.

    5. Re:Anonymous? by TriezGamer · · Score: 5, Funny

      Onomatopoeia

    6. Re:Anonymous? by ravenlock · · Score: 5, Funny

      Text version of a Nike ad.

  3. It's not a church by andyh3930 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Any "Church" that charges for its teachings and also has them copyrighted to prevent free distribution is not a church it's a scam at best and a dangerous cult at worst.

    I had dealings with them about 10 years ago. I ended up paying GBP30 for a course just to get out of the hard sell and even though I never did the course the often phoned and wrote letters of about 5 years after.

    See the Operation Clambake pages for more details to their activities. http://www.xenu.net/

    1. Re:It's not a church by grub · · Score: 4, Funny


      Any "Church" that charges for its teachings and also has them copyrighted to prevent free distribution is not a church it's a scam at best and a dangerous cult at worst

      cult (n): A small, unpopular religion.
      religion (n): a large, popular cult.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    2. Re:It's not a church by Catbeller · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Cult: organization pretending to be a religion. Keeps true beliefs secret from recruits, one would think because they would have no recruits if beliefs were known. Viciously attacks any and all who expose secret beliefs. Has tendency to lock people up, either through social pressure or actual locked doors. Uses any means possible to intimidate press, infiltrate government, and co-opt police forces. See: Moonies, Scientology, any number of local Jesus franchises in USA, and yes, even the Mormons, tho they succeeded in all points listed above so long ago that no one remembers they are a cult. Hell. the Salvation Army is a cult, but people rarely look at its belief system. A uniformed army, eh? But I digress.

    3. Re:It's not a church by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it did teach me a valuable lesson of telling anyone is the street trying sell anything is likely a con.

      So you got your 30 pounds worth for sure.

    4. Re:It's not a church by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Human psychology. The hard sell works using various techniques such as making it seem like a logical contradiction if you say "no", or making it seem like you're being mean to a nice person. People become incredibly uncomfortable with these situations and paying money is an easy way to escape.

    5. Re:It's not a church by value_added · · Score: 4, Interesting

      See: Moonies, Scientology, any number of local Jesus franchises in USA, and yes, even the Mormons, tho they succeeded in all points listed above so long ago that no one remembers they are a cult.

      Agreed, but have you have noticed that Mormons tend to be really nice people? I'm serious. It's like Romney -- no one can really find fault with him except to say his hair is too perfect, that he's just a successful businessman, or that he's Mormon.

      I have zero patience for the Protestant evangelical crowd and less for members of any cult, but Mormons, at least in my experience, tend to be shiny happy people that don't really bother anyone. Even the ex-Mormons I've met seem to have few bad things to say and if they do, you can't help but notice there's a certain lingering nostalgia in their eyes. That's not to say their beliefs aren't loony, but if members of cults were as benign as the typical Mormon, I wonder if anyone would notice, or care.

      But I digress.

      Back at you.

    6. Re:It's not a church by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well... except the ones that marry 13 year olds and follow discredited mormon beliefs.

      The mainstream mormons are no more loony that your average catholic these days tho.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    7. Re:It's not a church by Aladrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you get to make up your own definition now, eh?

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult

      A cult -is- a religion, even the dictionary says so. It's on the 'connotations' that people have that make it any different than religion, and those vary according to who you talk to.

      Also, you've neglected to mention the time when Christianity was also a 'cult' by your own definition. They read the bible in church in the original language, despite the fact that none of the lower members understood it. They definitely attacked all other beliefs, locked people up, used any possible means, etc.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    8. Re:It's not a church by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is some similarity with the Mormons. They will allow you to read the Book of Mormon before joining their church, but that is not all of their doctrine. You have to pay to get the final "secrets," and be let in on their Freemason-style rituals. This is the same as having to pay to take the Scientology cruise where they reveal the secret plans of Xenu. The Mormon equivalent of the Scientology cruise ship (Freewinds) is the Mormon temple. BTW, early Mormons threatened their followers with violence if they revealed the details of the their secret rituals. The "violence" was particularly nasty: an angel would slit their throat, or disembowel them. Ouch! With Scientology, I guess, if you don't accept Xenu, they just might throw you overboard. Conveniently, they are in international waters and there will be no witnesses.

      Today, the Mormon church controls a vast World wide financial empire built on the backs of their lay members. Their most visible member is currently waffling presidential candidate, Mitt Romney. Scientology also has a vast financial and real estate empire in Florida and in California. Their most visible member is Hollywood movie star, Tom Cruise. Give Scientology another 20-50 years, and maybe the two empires will be of equal size.

      The Cruise award video may win "Sundance Audience Favorite" award, even though it was not even entered. Everyone there seemed to really enjoy it.

    9. Re:It's not a church by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This post just gave me an idea out of the blue. Why not make religious texts non-copyrightable? Therefore scientology has to choose between religion and copyright. If it chooses a business, then fine. They can be a business and investigated as such and lose tax deductibale status. If they choose religion they're texts will become free and no one will have to pay them. I can't really see any issues with public domaining religious texts for legit religions.

    10. Re:It's not a church by Hittman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Can we please start modding down all "fixed that for you" posts to the point of invisibility?

      Putting words in other people's mouth is about the worst thing you can do in a debate/discussion. And adding "fixed that for you" adds a pathetic level of triteness on top of the dishonesty.

    11. Re:It's not a church by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes it was a cult, but we can't exatly punish it for what someone did well before this was even a country now, can we?

      We can only look at their behavior recently.

      I am in no way defending Christianity.

      Here are some great Cult clues:
      Do they want to separate you from your friends and family?
      Do the harass?
      Do they use 'deprivation' techniques ion recruits and/or memebers?
      Is it personality based?
      Do they punish people for questioning doctrine?
      Do they dictate diet or eating schedule?
      Do they believe they are above the law?
      Do they believe they are a cure all?
      Do they cost money or goods?
      Do the 'sequester' people?

      Just a few indicators, generally based on to degree. Example:
      One could say the catholics dictate you eating schedule by dictating a wafer during mass and fish on Fridays.
      I would say yes, that is an indicator but it's different then someone who tells you when to eat everyday and severely punished you if you slip.

      I am an Atheist,and I recognize the difference between Cult and religion.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re:It's not a church by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Plural marriage and the view of black people as "marked" by the curse of Cain were once core beliefs, and may still be if they weren't aiming for wider acceptance. I have to object... that view of black people was never a core belief of the LDS Church. I challenge you to produce one authentic document that shows Joseph Smith taught that.

      That misinformation, as far as I know, comes from a misunderstanding of a passage in the Book of Mormon which describes a curse under which the Lamanites fell. The curse was losing the privilege to have the priesthood among them. The darker skin which they recieved at that point in time was simply a mark so the Nephites would be able to recognize them and avoid mixing with them (similar to the Jews being told not to intermarry with those of other faiths). Later, when the two peoples mixed freely, the curse (lack of priesthood) was removed, but the dark skin was not.

      I am unaware of any official doctrinal "reason" that black people (i.e. from Africa) are black. It was, however, not confined to just blacks, but as far as I know, no non-white people was given the priesthood before 1978, and the priesthood was extended to all people at that time (see Official Declaration 2 for more information). It is also useful to note that the priesthood was limited to a select group of people for the entirety of the Old Testament (descendants of Levi and, more particularly, Aaron) and part of the New Testament. More information on this topic can be found here.

      It comes to mind that Bruce R. McConkie may have said something to the effect of what you claim we believe in his book "Mormon Doctrine", but that book is widely known to contain many inaccuracies.

      As for plural marriage, please see Official Declaration 1 which provides a clear explanation of the reasons the Church renounced that practice. I should note that God is free to command his people, and free to rescind those commands - and this is not a belief unique to Mormons. I simplify, but Christians in general believe God rescinded the Mosaic Law when Christ replaced it with a higher law - effectively taking a law He had given and replacing it with another. To protect His restored church, He commanded that the practice of plural marriage cease, as described by Wilford Woodruff in Official Declaration 1, specifically in the excerpts from his address to the members of the church at the bottom of the page.

      The idea of plural marriage is not unique to Mormons either. Many prophets of the Old Testament had multiple wives, and they were blessed by God for it (according to the Bible). Any who say God has never supported plural marriage have not read the Old Testament. The entire House of Israel - that is, the Jewish people - is descended from a man with four wives, Jacob (a.k.a. Israel). That means Jesus Himself is a descendant of a plural marriage. If God did not approve of plural marriage at all, at any time, it seems he would not have promised great blessings to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and then fulfilled them through the descendants of their multiple wives.

      You are free to dislike other religions, and you are free to argue that their doctrines are invalid or stupid or whatever, but spreading false information about them is equivalent to Microsoft's FUD campaign against Linux.
    13. Re:It's not a church by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Any "Church" that charges for its teachings and also has them copyrighted to prevent free distribution is not a church it's a scam at best and a dangerous cult at worst.
      The best solution would be to have a law that says that you can either have copyright protection or you can have protection and benefits of a religion but NEVER ever both. (but you may select to have none, that's YOUR problem not anybody elses...)

      Germany has stated that "...the chief purpose of Scientology is not religious, but economical in nature...", which is probably the closest thing to consider. And don't forget that both Tom Cruise and John Travolta are members of that outfit. (I wouldn't even call it Cult...)

      And the myth as it seems that there was a wager between Heinlein and Hubbard about starting a religion, it seems to be half-true. But I don't think that Heinlein ever planned on catching up on starting a religion... He would probably gotten himself into FSF or some other outfit instead with his statement of "Pay it forward" if he had been born at a later date. (Today it's more than 100 years since Heinlein was born, he was born 7 July 1907!)

      Especially the "Pay it forward" approach is important. Even if you do someone a service and that person isn't able to return the favor you can always set the "pay it forward" approach to the problem.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    14. Re:It's not a church by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Funny

      Can we please start modding up all "fixed that for you" posts to the point of visibility? Fixed that for you.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    15. Re:It's not a church by adpowers · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unless you are gay. An old friend was kicked out of BYU for that and they withheld his transcript so he couldn't transfer credits. Yeah, real nice folks.

  4. Cults are for idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Scientology and all its offshoot cults like The Landmark Forum are brainwashing users of people. Money money money.

  5. Re:The war by DurendalMac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Precisely. This "war" will amount to very little. The CoS is loaded with the cash of the gullible and foolish. Anonymous also fails to realize that most people don't give a crap about stuff on the internet outside of email and maybe some major news sites. It'll be amusing to watch, though.

  6. Anonymous? Really? by jandrese · · Score: 3, Informative

    Is this the same Anonymous that Joe Blow knows about thanks to Fox News? When asked to choose between a church and terrorists who want to blow up your van, which one do you think the public is going to go for?

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  7. Followed by by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tom Cruise declares war on the internet.
    -
    He's gotta do something until the mothership arrives...

    1. Re:Followed by by antdude · · Score: 4, Funny

      So Mission Impossible 4? ;)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  8. Michigan Daily quote by gardyloo · · Score: 4, Funny

    From Wikinews: The "Message to Scientology" video was highlighted as the "YouTube Video of the Week" by The Michigan Daily. Commenting on the video, the piece states "if this video is any indication, it seems like the assailants mean business". Hehe. If that were a credible metric of "business", we'd have an emo President by now.

  9. Easy to start new religions? by JulianConrad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    LRH's scam shows how easy it is to start a new religion that survives and gains passionate adherents after the death of its founders. Most people couldn't do it, but a few individuals have the kind of personality that can pull it off in the right social environment. In fact, we have enough recent historical data on cults that turn into competitive new religions (for example Mormonism and Baha'i, both founded in the 19th Century) that I don't think it's even all that mysterious how older religions like Christianity & Islam could have originated through normal social processes. (We don't have to postulate "supernatural" causes to explain their existence, in other words.)

  10. 'Anonymous' is actually... by sykopomp · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...a group composed of members of several -chan sites (4chan, 7chan, 711chan), as well as several other related communities like YTMND and Ebaum's.

    Really, this is a joke. Channers will raid/invade just about anything, and Scientology is just their latest target. This is the exact same group behind the 'hackers on steroids' thing that Fox News reported on. Any claims they have about righteousness are just a way to justify their 'lulz'.

    1. Re:'Anonymous' is actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, this raid has attracted people who only normally would masturbate to jailbait and laugh at silly pictures.

      So no, it's not the same "RAID RAID RAID" cancer as before - and heck, it gives those kids something useful to do.

    2. Re:'Anonymous' is actually... by Parag2k3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well thats mostly correctly (besides Ebaums. They hate ebaums for stealing web content from other sites and blame them for any raids they do)

      They raid almost anything and unlike normal hackers/crackers, they use pure brute force methods on their targets. Also they don't pick their targets based on any real reason. They prank call Tom Green for the hell of it, and phished tons of myspace accounts. They usually attack things that they won't get into serious trouble for. If you attack things people dislike, most people will just let them do as they please (see Hal Turner). CoS is probably one of the biggest targets they've ever had. Their attack on CoS includes DDoS, black faxes, harrassing/prank phone calls, and random other things.

      Will it be effective? Probably not, its more annoying than anything else. The DDoSing is probably the thing that annoys CoS the most since it limits their web appeal. But considering they have tons of celebrities at their disposal, they probably aren't losing too many new members.

  11. Re:Why bother? by that+IT+girl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, I just read the last article about it. That doesn't make sense when I compare it to any other religion I've encountered. Christians and Jews and Muslims and all, they freely post their scripture and encourage people to memorize, recite, share...it's the word of their God. If it is the truth, as Scientologists believe, why wouldn't they want it to be spread? It's like even they know it's all a sham, for making money and not about truly helping people.

    --
    10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
    20 DRINK COFFEE
    30 GOTO 10
  12. Trolls by TI-8477 · · Score: 5, Funny

    You do realize that the people who are leading this war are the same people who consider trolling Slashdot a professional sport?

  13. Why not declare war on religion in general? by mgkimsal2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why single out one specific 'religion'? I saw the Tom Cruise interview video last week - it really didn't seem all that fundamentally different from listening to an evangelical Christian. Different terms were used, but the mindset was mostly the same. Watch Jesus Camp if you haven't already. Not much difference between the main camp director's mindset and Tom Cruise's.

    1. Re:Why not declare war on religion in general? by vajaradakini · · Score: 5, Informative

      Churches don't tend to steal documents from governments to erase negative things about their founders like Scientologists did during Operation Snow White[wikipedia]. Nor do they tend to try to frame people for various crimes (see operation freakout) or go after anyone who says anything bad about them with a pack of lawyers.

      --
      what's that now?
  14. Scientology is pervasive by Phoenix666 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Especially when you consider its offshoot, the Landmark Forum (formerly "EST"). They are scary, for-profit cults that employ techniques like fatigue, hunger, group compulsion, and newspeak. You would be surprised how many people from all walks of life have gotten pulled into them.

    I wish Anonymous well, but Scientologists and their cousins in the Landmark Forum are beyond reason. And fighting cults rarely works unless they're small and focused around a single charismatic leader. Both Scientology and Landmark are too big and widespread for that, and fighting them will probably only make them stronger.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
    1. Re:Scientology is pervasive by Phoenix666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, that's right. EST was founded by the guy who co-founded Scientology with L. Ron Hubbard. My recollection is that he and L. Ron did it on a bet. Landmark Forum is what they renamed EST after the followers undertook what was essentially an employee buyout. They moderated some of the more abusive practices of EST, but much of the language has a direct heritage to Scientology. For instance, they still talk about "getting clear." A "Clear" or "Theta Clear" is what a Scientologist aspires to be.

      The interesting thing about Landmark, Scientology, and other cults is that a person's susceptibility to them has nothing to do with intelligence. Very smart people fall prey to them, too. The ability to resist is far more predicated on how emotionally stable you are. But if you're well-adjusted already, there's little chance you'd be interested in Landmark or Scientology in the first place. It's a rather self-selected group that Scientology and Landmark target; when people walk through their door they're pretty certain the person has some kind of issues or weak spots, and all they have to do is probe until they find them and the person breaks down. Then they pounce.

      If your father is tangled up in Landmark, the worst thing you can do is to try to get them to stop or make them feel like you oppose what they're doing. That plays into the sense of alienation that cults try to create between their followers and their friends and families. In other words opposing what he's doing would accelerate his abandonment of his relationship with you.

      The best thing to do is be loving and supportive without getting sucked in yourself. Try to be and remain his window on normalcy. Of the people that I've seen escape from Landmark and Scientology, it's because their friends and family stayed engaged and supportive. Eventually they realize how weird the group think is and also come to the conclusion that being a Scientologist or Landmark member hasn't solved their problems either. They grow disenchanted on their own.

      --
      Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  15. Re:The war by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are loons in any campaign, but Ron Paul had a special knack for getting them to come out of the woodwork, ...

    Which is to be expected. Anyone who actually supports individual freedom is sure to be popular among the unpopular and oppressed minority groups; they have the most interest at stake in protecting basic rights like free speech. Those who only hold and/or express popular opinions don't require such protection.

    --
    "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  16. Re:Why bother? by Bazer · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you'd click the second link in the summary you'd see how Slashdot "gave in".

    The story posted after the comment was removed had a full disclosure, included the text of that comment and had _lots_ of anti-Scientology links, including Operation Clambake. That was the best Slashdot could do, considering the threat of legal action.

  17. Meanwhile back in the woods. by AndGodSed · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ned:"Heya Ed, watcha doin?"
    Ed: "See that cave full of bears? I am pokin' em with a stick!"
    Ned:"OMG Ed, that's crazy!"
    Ed: "No worries! See I build a remote poking robot device that I am controlling via wires attached to this here laptop computer."
    Ned:"Uh Ed?"
    Ed: "Yeah?"
    Ned:"Can't they just follow the wire to where you are hiding?"

  18. It's a money machine by JCSoRocks · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ron Hubbard - the founder of Scientology - has been quoted as saying that if you want to get rich, you start a religion. ( http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scientology/skeptic/start-a-religion-faq/ ) Well, that's what he did. You have to pay just to learn about it and the deeper you go, the more you spend. It's designed to dupe people into giving the Church of Scientology gobs of money. I truly feel sorry for anyone that's been sucked in by it. It's like believing that Star Wars is real (the movie, not the missile defense system...).

    --
    You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    1. Re:It's a money machine by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, the bulk of the Scientology membership, even those who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years to reach higher levels, is kept separate from the Celebrity Center.

  19. More Interesting... by Morosoph · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Is how the mainstream media really don't want to give him any coverage. It's easy to put it down to interests, but I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that it's because his popularity has little to do with them.

    Where, after all, is the media trail of his development? From the newspaper's perspective, Ron Paul is one big discontinuity.

    1. Re:More Interesting... by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 5, Funny
      I always respond in the same way to people who think there is some vast conspiracy against Ron Paul.

      Is there a conspiracy against Ron Paul?

      Yes. A large group in the US has decided to block his rise to power, since his policies would grievously threaten their interests. Little is known about this shadowy organisation beyond its name - 'The Voting Public'.

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    2. Re:More Interesting... by 8ball629 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can't read that without hearing the A-Team theme in the background.

    3. Re:More Interesting... by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If not the media, it's the non-voting public that don't value freedom, don't value the Republic, and settle for whatever they get, as long as they don't have to bother to go vote.

      Umm, I vote, and I do value the Republic and freedom, I just happen to disagree with Ron Paul. For that "crime" I've been vilified by Ron Paul supporters (both online and local), called everything from a "sheep" to a "fascist".

      Newsflash: Just because we don't embrace 100% of the libertarian platform doesn't mean that we don't believe in freedom. Ron Paul is doing us a favor by putting his ideas out there for the public debate but he has zero chance of winning the election. Blame the media for that all you want but at the end of the day one has to ask himself if the American people are really ready to embrace his ideas.

      There was a reason why we got away from the gold standard and laissez-faire economics to begin with. I love him for his positions on civil liberties but the 19th century called -- they want their economic policy back.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:More Interesting... by sm62704 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you're anti-corporate, why would you ever vote for a Libertarian?

      Because I'm not a single issue voter. If you've ever seen my journals you would know that I like pot and hookers, and the Libertarians want to legalize them both. They wouldn't, of course, be able to manage that unless they somehow got control of the House and Senate.

      The biggest reason I'd like to see a Libertarian in the White House is because he would veto, veto, and veto some more. The President doesn't write the laws, he vetos them when he can, and must enforce them when he can't. And IMO we have way, way too many laws.

      The law I'd like to see is one that gives term limits to laws; unless reenacted, all laws would expire after a ten year period. Do we really need to protect sugar farmers form their South American competetion?

      The party I'd like to see doesn't exist. It would be a social libertarian party that understood that government's prime purpose is to protect me from you, not to protect the corporations from customers, voters, and environmental laws. It would be pro-osha, drug-neutral, and antiNannyState.

      When I was a young man the only corporation I was against was the one that killed my grandfather (that was 1959 and I still refuse to buy Purina products). Perhaps being young made me naive (actually in retrospect I'm sure that was the case), but it didn't seem like corporations were all run by murderous theiving sociopaths like today's corporations are.

      When I speak of "murderous theiving sociopaths" I speak of Ford and the exploding Pintos and crown victorias, the Firestone SUV rollovers, Microsoft's business practices, Ty's refusal to take lead tainted toys off of Illinois shelves despite our consumer protection laws, Sony's rootkit, Alpo's poison Chinese dog and cat food, Mattell's poison Chinese toys... the list is endless.

      In fact, if I had my way most CEOs would be facing trial for negligent homicide amd Grand Theift.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  20. I have some dirt on Scientology here: by tak+amalak · · Score: 5, Funny

    [This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International.]

    --
    Don't lead me into temptation... I can find it myself.
  21. Effectual? Irrelevant. by CheeseburgerBrown · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Granted, this e-hissy from Anonymous is unlikely to take down the cult or even deal it serious damage, but it does serve to highlight how the traditional big media outlets have been legally hogtied.

    Our usual media sources can't report on allegations of abuse because they've been very effectively muzzled by CSI hyper-litigation. They try to keep this fact close to the vest, but Anonymous' efforts are making it plain for all to see. This is a valuable service.

    Also, any organization that exploits copyright law in order to silence critics should get a kick in the shins, even if that's all it amounts to. It's still a potent message: "We don't condone gag orders, and we'll fight back however we can, even if it is a David versus Goliath situation."

    Glib as it may sound, raising awareness is key here. And an end unto itself.

    Yours,
    Cheeseburger Brown
    Suppressive and Proud

  22. Re:The war by EllisDees · · Score: 3, Insightful

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#Newsletter_controversy

    Paul disavowed the writings in a response to the New Republic article, saying that the quotations do not represent his beliefs, and that he has "never uttered such words and denounce[s] such small-minded thoughts." He again noted that he accepts "moral responsibility" for not paying closer attention to writings published under his name.[116] In a subsequent interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, he said he did not know who wrote the articles and stated he "[repudiates] everything that is written along those lines." Blitzer told Paul that he was "shocked" by the newsletters, because they did not seem to reflect "the Ron Paul that I've come to know, and the viewers have come to know" over the course of several interviews during the campaign.[117] David Gergen, CNN senior political analyst, commented "I don't think there's an excuse in politics to have something go out under your name and say, 'Oh by the way, I didn't write that'."[117][118]

    In the interview with Blitzer, Paul asserted that racism is incompatible with his beliefs and that he sees people as individuals--not as part of collectives. He also dismissed the attack as an attempt to accuse him of racism by proxy, claiming that he has collected more money among African-Americans than any other Republican candidate.[117] Nelson Linder, president of the Austin chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), defended Paul, saying that he has known him for 20 years, saw him as a "free thinker", "very intelligent and very informed", talking about "real issues" that "invite attacks on him", who was "correct in what he's saying", and that knowing his intent, he believes Paul has been misconstrued and taken out of context.[119] Former LA Times editor Andrew Malcolm noted that Paul got second place in the January 19 Nevada Republican caucus despite the recent reports about the newsletters.

    --
    -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
  23. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    > There's no point in posting this story on Slashdot; Slashdot just caved last time Scientology told them to censor themselves, and there's no reason to believe that has changed.

    Memetic warfare.

    Walk down the street and ask random people "What's the first thing you think of when you hear the word '$cientology'"?

    If it's "Tom Cruise", the person could still be sucked into the cult. They're still infected by the "cult == hollywood celebrity thing" meme. The cult's kinda weird, but it's something successful people do.

    When it's "Xenu!", "Scam", "Money", "Those assholes who DMCA everybody who talks about their UFO story", or "That UFO cult from South Park", "That chair-jumping fucktard on Oprah", the person will never be sucked into the cult. These people have been inoculated by a different meme -- the cult's something that only the mentally ill could do.

    At some point - 20%? 50%? 90%? - herd immunity develops. "Hey, man I took this personality test and..." "What, what? Dude! Do you know what that cult is? Here, lemme tell you about Xenu and save you $360,000! It's crazy shit!"

    When herd immunity develops in the general population, the cult starves for money, and dies.

    This story should be on Slashdot for that reason alone: it exposes thousands of people to the memetic inoculations provided by the OT3 story, the deaths, the money, the criminal conspiracies in other countries, and so on. Everyone who reads this story learns something about the cult that will ultimately help starve the cult of its lifeblood: its ability to recruit new members, (in cult parlance, "fresh meat") and bilk them of their life's savings.

  24. The way to Destroy Scientology by jameskojiro · · Score: 3, Funny

    If to get about a million people to join all at once and then when the muckey mucks are not around you really mess up the place. I could see at a Scientology meeting you have 300 people 2/3 who are plants, when the rest want to do somethign evil like harass someone, you would then have 2/3rds stand up and say, HELL NO WE AINT GONNA BE ASSHOLES! You can join without paying just tell them that the other churches don't require you paty and demand that they let you into their churches because if you are dressed nicely I have yet to see a church kick you out if you go in, sit down and behave civily. Plus regular churches don't charge you for services, yes they pass around the collections plate but you don't have to put anything on it.

    Basically, just kill their silly little cult with a nationwide flash mob of epic proportions.

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
  25. Definition of cult by Nathan+Cassano · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The definition of a cult is quite simple. A cult hides it's core beliefs from it's members a religion does not.

    --

    ---------
    This space for rent. Call 1-800-SIGADVT to place your ad.
  26. Re:I've been asked, "Have you ever met an SP?" by domatic · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is short for "Suppressive Person". In Scientology, an SP is anyone who is actively impeding the Church or questioning it's teachings. Being an SP is attributed to gross personal flaws and they will assign the label to threats both perceived and real and internal or external. Furthermore, they believe SPs are "Fair Game" and may be "sued, tricked, lied to, or destroyed" by any possible means. People will be branded SPs for things questioning family members too closely about their new church for instance but the application of the label is much much broader than that.

  27. Re:I've been asked, "Have you ever met an SP?" by Firehed · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is the point where I invoke Godwin's Law, right?

    --
    How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  28. $cientology isn't so bad... by pyrr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Co$ gives me one more compelling reason to use "$" in a mocking fashion!

    I also like to think of $cientology as a good example that illustrates the origins of religions. Whether you're talking about Christianity or Star Trek, it's just another example of a charismatic individual using his fantastic imagination to come up with an utterly baseless and bizarre explanation for the way things are. And then convincing the masses that he somehow knows what he's talking about, and deserves their money and allegiance for sharing the knowledge with them. All it takes is to follow the money to see what the real game is.

  29. ...Why did you pay? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't care how hard their sell was.

    Either you can simply ignore them, or they're actually doing something illegal, and you can stop them.

    I don't see why you felt the need to fund them.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  30. Re:how moronic by geekoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Suppressing Scientology is no different the the Chinese government suppressing and killing Christians. "

    Not really. Freedom of speech does not entitle you to harass other people and unlawfully accuse them of crimes.

    "My guess is that this is a dry run and that Christianity is next on the list. "

    OK, you just slipped into paranoid fantasy land.

    Scientology is a cult created from a bet, continued as a tax dodge.

    More importantly, they harass people, threaten people, follow people, lie to people, lie to the courts, abuse the legal system.

    Funny enough they paid taxes for 25 years because they are a commercial enterprise. Only after harassing IRS employees, and getting some into their cult did they get tax exempt status. At the time, it was very shocking to tax experts since every court had back the IRS decision not to give them exempt status. that was 1993, if I am not mistaken.

    Yeah, I have watched this organization for years. I have family who new Hubbard pretty well. Until his power slipped and he wasn't allowed to see them anymore.

    You know what? I can go to any church or synagogue learn their religion and then leave without any problems, not so with the CoS.
    Religions are a waste of time and resources, but I wouldn't stop someone from worshiping, OTOH I wouldn't stop someone from exposing the truth.

    Religion is like masturbation; I know people do it, but I don't want to hear about it.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  31. two quotes by Hubbard that say it all... by night_flyer · · Score: 5, Informative

    You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion. (1948)

    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. (1952)

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
  32. Bigotry by Soporific · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know that hatred of a pyramid scheme is bigotry...

    ~S

  33. A La Family Guy by sporkme · · Score: 3, Funny

    He blows himself up, ascends to heaven, and there are 72 slashdot users having a celestial lan party, playing netcraft and flaming Microsoft.

    1. Re:A La Family Guy by tehBoris · · Score: 5, Funny

      playing netcraft

      Is that the game where you kill BSDs?

  34. Re:The war by flosofl · · Score: 4, Informative
    Convicted in court?

    As a matter of fact, yes.

    Court case in 1979 and criminal convictions of 11 high-ranking officials regarding Operation Snow White, the largest program of domestic espionage in U.S. history.
    --
    "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
  35. Scientology, convicted in court. by spun · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, absolutely Scientology leaders have been convicted in court. L. Ron's wife, among many other cult leaders, spent years in prison. Here's some more info:
    Operation Snow White
    Operation Freakout

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  36. Movie Stars by Devir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I used to have a high level of respect for John Travolta and Tom Cruise. Then they joined the Cult of Scientology and became wack jobs. Worse is that they use their "Star Power" to sway more members to the cult movement.

  37. Re:RIAA.. Scientology or other's flyers in SF... by davidsyes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The City ought to revive the idea of charging fast-food restaurants for their garbage strewn all over the streets and apply it to those passing out the pink-paper "Are you bi-curious..." umm, I mean "Are you curious about yourself" tri-fold flyers. On any given day in Powell area, one can find locals and tourists just dropping the damned things once they realized what they've been proffered.

    It's one thing to find chewing gum wrappers and fast-food containers and such on the streets, but ideas peddled and then rejected are a CLEAR sign that some one or some organization is going beyond free-speech guarantees. With TV, one can change channels or turn off the TV, and there is no immediate or sighted pollution. Even the ad sponsors can't (without digital connections) determine who is switching off their ads or just ignoring them and instead multi-tasking during commercial breaks or going to the bathroom between programs.

    What that coarse-throat preacher and his megaphone gets up on his Powell Street pulpit condemning gays, heretics, non-Christians and so on, he's blabbing and making noise (apparently, he's within ordinance as SFPD never takes him down, since his Mr. Megaphone is not amplified via a generator or exceeding some decibel level, I guess...), he is making noise pollution, but at least one can walk away.

    Flyers dropped or abandoned mean the message contained is simply not wanted. The content doesn't matter, unless it's pron, I guess, in which case we generally DON'T want the stuff face-up for kids and sensitive/easily-offended types to see. I guess I'm just sick and tired of seeing religious/belief paraphernalia on the street because its CONTENT is utterly rejected by 90% of those into whose hands it was stuck or taken out of sympathy for the pushers of it.

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  38. Hoax or Real? by CristalShandaLear · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the video:
    We are cognizant of the many who may decry our methods as parallel to the Church of Scientology. Those who espouse the obvious truth that your organization will use the actions of Anonymous as an example of the persecution of which you have for so long forewarned your followers. This is acceptable to Anonymous. In fact,it is encouraged.


    Damn. Kind of wraps the Borg's "Resistance is Futile" and Bush Jr.'s "Bring It On" in an ominious, yet tidy little anti-scientology message doesn't it?

    I've had a couple of friends who "converted" to scientology and they completely shun anyone and everyone they were ever associated with including their parents now. It's very sad to see how isolated and fearful they've become.

    I for one hope that this isn't a hoax. I'd never participate in something like this, but when I think of what my friends used to be and what they are now - and how Scientology seems to be this insidious organization that has used and abused so many - I can't help but hope that Anonymous, if serious, will succeed.

  39. Romney and one Mormon Point of View by weston · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Agreed, but have you have noticed that Mormons tend to be really nice people? I'm serious. It's like Romney -- no one can really find fault with him except to say his hair is too perfect, that he's just a successful businessman, or that he's Mormon.

    I'm a Mormon, and while I appreciate the kind generalization, I definitely find him lacking on a number of fronts, including his ability to say anything inspiring during faith-related discussion or respond coherently to attacks on that front. There's also the fact that his about-face on several issues seem so conveniently timed it seems likely he's being phony... plus there's his endorsement of (and being endorsed in return by) Ann Coulter, plus the "double guantanamo" statement he made that, and in general a willingness to engage in a kind of republican political rhetoric that was never really high to begin with but is really, really starting to show its wear. Then there's the point that we've already elected a single-term governor from a family dynasty with political connections who has experience in business and managing a sports franchise, and that didn't really didn't work out so well, now, did it? All in all, I'd have to be pretty desperate to vote for him.

    He does seem like he's probably a good Mormon, though. :) But see, that's the thing. As a Mormon, I know lots of good Mormons who really, really shouldn't be president.

    Mormons, at least in my experience, tend to be shiny happy people that don't really bother anyone. Even the ex-Mormons I've met seem to have few bad things to say and if they do, you can't help but notice there's a certain lingering nostalgia in their eyes. That's not to say their beliefs aren't loony, but if members of cults were as benign as the typical Mormon, I wonder if anyone would notice, or care.

    There's two things that I think make Mormons like this. One is that the religion itself is seen very much by its members as a serious spiritual practice as much as anything else -- its cosmological aspects are tied up in that, and it has sociopolitical implications, but it's not a cosmology or sociopolitical blueprint first (there are times in its history when that has been less true, especially the first 60 years, but that's another point). My experience suggests to me that people who have a faith that they take seriously as a spiritual practice tend to also be as you describe -- nice, happy shiny people. This isn't to say I don't think Mormonism has anything particular to distinguish itself, but I think this is the most important element. Having a serious spiritual practice of some kind is grounding and can inspire a real tranquility knowing you have a strong idea about your place in the world and working to play that part as well as you can. Combine it with basic rules of common decency and you get good people.

    The other thing -- Mormons have long been different enough (and indeed, for some portion of their history, genuinely persecuted and hated) that they really, really want to be accepted and legitimized by mainstream society. There's also a religious desire to be a "light of the world", "city on a hill" (Matthew 5:14-16) in their communities. It adds up to a desire to excel and succeed that's probably a tad beyond the protestant work ethic, and I think when that combines with the basic decency and spiritual grounding, it does produce people that are respected in their communities.

    This is, however, a generalization, and as an insider, I see this community of mine as far from perfect. In particular, I've seen a lot of that desire to be legitimized and excel turn to elitism, materialism, and a misplaced sense of destiny that can border on a naive entitlement (interesting considering there are specific and serious warnings about this hazard in Mormon canon). And the collapsed quasi-Mormon cosmology that passes for political philosophy in staunch Republican Utah can be really, seriously crazy. I say all this partly to acknowledge it's not all shiny happy people

  40. One man's words... by Teflon_Jeff · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have but one thing to say about Scientology

    "The only way you can control people is to lie to them."
    -L. Ron Hubbard, .Off the Time Track,. lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY, issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418.

    --
    "Teach a man to build a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."
  41. Heard of Prussian Blue? Ron has co-starred w/ 'em by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I kiiinda like Obama and realize the "he's a muslim" chain emails are very dishonest, but I don't really think there's anything wrong with being a Muslim so long as you don't think Jihad=kill those you disagree with. I do not appreciate my truthful comments being lumped in with that sort of obvious smear, and you kinda owe me an apology for suggesting my claims are on that level.

    But let's permit Ron Paul to explain his views on Obama, who we all can see is clearly a BLACK PERSON.

    "[O]ur country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists--and they can be identified by the color of their skin."

    "I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city [Washington, D.C.] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

    "We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational."

    Chief, I understand your skepticism. After all, I accused a man of accepting donations from neo-nazis. That's so horrible it's tough to believe. Anyone who would accept support from nazis is totally unfit for anything good. I can't believe I almost forgot a link, since apparently this is first you've heard of it: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/19/paul-to-keep-donation-from-white-supremacist/

    And I also accuse Ron of writing racist hate-speech, and lying about it. That's pretty damn extreme, as far as accusations go. Anyone who wrote the things I refer to is a monster, and any of Ron's supporters who would actually attempt to hide the truth, as this fucker does: http://revolusion2008.blogspot.com/2008/01/conscience-of-ron-paul-supporter.html, is also a monster. Worse than most Scientologists, possibly. And anyone who knows about Lisa McPhereson knows that Scientologists are monsters too.

    I'm a bit surprised that a slashdot reader is unaware of these well-worn, practically old facts. I don't watch TV news often or listen to talk radio, so maybe this stuff isn't as well known out there as it should be. I feel as though a demand to prove what is as obvious about Ron is akin to demanding proof of the moon landing or 9/11 being caused by terrorists. I don't think every assertion that slams a monster like Ron Paul must have citations. I'm just having a conversation, not building an indictment.

    http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/01/ron_paul.php this is one expose that was pretty well written. The author was actually a fairly outspoken Ron Paul supporter. Gave him money, helped organize efforts, etc. But unlike some, this supporter stopped supporting Ron Paul when it became obvious Ron Paul is a monster. This is not someone who is biased against Ron Paul, this is someone who was biased in FAVOR of Ron Paul's presidential promises.

    Some actually say Ron didn't write that stuff. But Ron's bank account paid for the publishing, and Ron signed the checks. Could a normal sane person pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to print racist stuff signed in the sane person's name? Also, why don't you actually read the newsletter: http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pdf/RonPaul-december1990.pdf

    The author of the hate literature seems to believe he is married to Ron Paul's wife and grandparent to Ron Paul's grandkids and represents Texas's 14th congressional district (Paul's district). That's not hard to explain, because Ron Paul is the author of this newsletter and all the others that say:

    "The riots, burning, looting, and murders are only a continuation of 30 years of racial politics."

    "The criminals who terrorize our cities--in riots and on every non-riot day--are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained

  42. An inside view of the Scientology reality tunnel by James+McGuigan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Within the Church of Scientology, you are taught that Scientology is the one and only solution to all mankind's problems, and during this narrow window of opportunity in mankind's history it is possible to "clear the planet" (ie give everybody auditing) and save humanity from itself. Most other goals pale in comparison and anything that detracts from Scientology, or its expansion is in essence a mortal sin against humanity. This belief is strong enough to get people sign up the Sea Organization (LRH's private navy) on a billion year contract (ie you are in for the long haul... and not just this lifetime)

    Anyone who attacks the church is either a suppressive person (2.5% of the population who are evil - think Hitler), PTS due to a connection to an SP (Potential Trouble Source - 20% of the population), or has committed various other overts and withholds (ie sins and secrets) and it trying to justify their own actions by making the Scientology seem less (because if you admitted to yourself that Scientology was the "one and only solution" then your otherwise small crime would have to weigh fairly heavily on your conscience). Anyone who commits various sins and suppressive acts, will be subconsciously aware of this, and slowly do themselves in (ie get sick, have an accident) to prevent themselves from committing more crimes.

    It is also taught that if someone encounters the OT3 materials before being ready for them, then as part of the psychological conditioning to create "prison-planet" earth, the person may get sick and die and this is the reason it is considered "confidential" and heavily protected, and only available to members of the church past a certain level. In the south park episode "trapped in the closet", they did a cartoon version of the OT3 materials labeled "This Is what Scientologists Actually Believe", if Matt and Trey has been members of the church, they would have been ex-communicated very quickly. The church would have almost definitely told Issac Hayes to "dissconnect" from them or otherwise become ineligible for any future Scientology services or auditing.

    This "truth" or "reality tunnel" is slowly conditioned into you until you internalise it. There is a huge taboo against reading or discussing anything potentially negative or "entheta" against Scientology or the church, often the taboo will extend down to the point that you feel it is wrong to "think" about potentially negative things regarding Scientology. To do so would potentially detract from Scientology and is thus a mortal sin against humanity, or you might wind up making yourself sick. I know this, because I was brought up within the church, and through the process of leaving the church and the Scientology "reality tunnel", it took me around two years to fully confront this internal taboo to the point I could openly think and speak on the subject.

    Part of the process for getting people into this state of mind, is that during Scientology auditing, if you have any undisclosed overts or withholds, or you have your attention stuck on something, the e-meter will pick up on this (that you have your attention stuck on something after you where asked a question - its the same principal behind the polygraph), Thus the auditor will be trained to uncover these issues, by continually asking questions on the subject, with the help of the e-meter, which may include turning part of the auditing session into a confessional. Auditing is essentially about being completely open and honest with yourself and your mind, and fully confronting (with the help of the auditor) any issues that where previously painful or unconscious about (this is actually the good bit about Scientology). Having out-ethics or keeping secrets is considered to be a barrier to your own spiritual growth.

  43. Re:RIAA.. Scientology or other's flyers in SF... by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Free speech is free speech when it is a spoken 'opinion', however, free speech ain't free with it is the false statement of facts used to obtain money. That is generally considered as fraud and has some rather substantial costs associated with it, so not always free ;).

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  44. Re:An inside view of the Scientology reality tunne by just_forget_it · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Your post reminds me a lot of my experience as a Jehovah's Witness. I was raised in the church, and a lot of these elements of scientology are present in the JW religion as well.

    "Within the Church of Scientology, you are taught that Scientology is the one and only solution to all mankind's problems, and during this narrow window of opportunity in mankind's history it is possible to "clear the planet" (ie give everybody auditing) and save humanity from itself. Most other goals pale in comparison and anything that detracts from Scientology, or its expansion is in essence a mortal sin against humanity. This belief is strong enough to get people sign up the Sea Organization (LRH's private navy) on a billion year contract (ie you are in for the long haul... and not just this lifetime)"

    It's the same thing with Jehovah's Witnesses. As a witness, you are taught that the Watchtower society is the "faithful and discreet slave" (otherwise known as the "faithful and wise servant" in most Bibles), meaning that they are the sole channel to God. Any kind of salvation and favor with God are impossible without following the doctrinal interpretations of the society. They also teach that the only goal a Witness of Jehovah should have is to preach the message to others as much as possible. All other ambitions in life come secondary. This is why there are no Jehovah's Witness charities, scholarships, or homeless shelters. They believe the earth will all be destroyed and that the only thing that needs to be done is get people into the Watchtower fold so they can survive Armageddon.

    "Anyone who attacks the church is either a suppressive person..."

    Anyone who disagrees, even if only privately, to the most specific tenets of the Jehovah's Witness faith (including the weird bits like the 1914 eschatology) is labeled an apostate and under direct control of Satan and the demons. People who publicly attack the church are often viewed as sinning against the holy spirit, the Bible's only unforgivable sin.

    "There is a huge taboo against reading or discussing anything potentially negative or "entheta" against Scientology or the church, often the taboo will extend down to the point that you feel it is wrong to "think" about potentially negative things regarding Scientology.

    Right in line with Watchtower teachings. Books and authors that disagree with the society's conclusions are labeled as "worldly," meaning that they are a product of a world ruled by Satan. Essentially, anything that doesn't agree with doctrine is wholly Satanic, automatically, no questions asked. Witnesses are constantly told to stay away from the internet and from "apostate" reading material, because reading such things will corrupt the mind of even the most faithful Jehovah's Witness.

    "it drills into you the fact that Scientology "works" and "gets results" and that the only reason it doesn't work is due to incorrect understood, applied or "squirreled"

    Everything that is taught by the society is "the truth." If wonderful things don't happen to you as a result of being "in the truth," then it is always your fault. You might not be praying enough, or you might need to be going out door-knocking more often. If you're not happy, you're not doing enough, period. Until recently and even currently on some occasions, those with depression were/are told that the reason for their depression is that something is keeping them from God. The solutions are to pray and read the Bible more.

    "he did a purge of anyone within the church who he considered was not 100% loyal to him by declaring them suppressive and excommunicating them (members of the church are required to "dis-connect" and never again speak to someone who has been excommunicated)."

    The same thing happened with Joseph F. Rutherford took over the presidency of the Watchtower society from its founder, Charles T. Russel, in 1917. He instituted the doctrine of "disfellowshipping." Those who are disfellowshipped are shunned by everyo