Valve Takes on Piracy With Free, Pre-Packaged Game Publishing Tools

Heartless Gamer writes "Valve is rocking the boat in a big way, especially for PC gaming piracy. They have just announced the release of a complete collection of publisher tools, called Steamworks. They're making it available to developers and publishers completely free. Valve notes that beyond simply making the product available to consumers some of the tools can integrate copy protection, social networking services, or even server browsing features into a developing game."

Comments

Valve and piracy

[Brian Gordon]

They don't really have anything to worry about- their madly popular titles are all multiplayer so piracy is impossible and "cracked" servers are rarely of any quality..

Re:Valve and piracy

[Brian Gordon]

Oh, also they're the only game publisher that actually charges a reasonable price for games, and the steam platform is fast and I love steamcommunity. Steam is really the first digital RIGHTS management system instead of digital restrictions management.. they provide so many top-quality services at the mere input of your password on any computer in the country that I'd rather have the DRMed version than the CD version. This is what the music industry should be somehow doing..

Re:Valve and piracy

[MvD_Moscow]

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that one. Using steam is actually better than buying a DVD. You can access your whole game library just by logging onto steam. No need to to care a HD with all the image/patch/no-CD data. Automatic updates, near instant access as soon as you pay for the game.

Though some parts of steam still need some work. The 'Favorite Servers' options in CS:S is kind of buggy and it doesn't always remember your favorites. The steam game store can also at times feel slightly slow, they need to make use of more AJAX with less reloading and new windows and stuff. They also need to improve their screenshots section. More screenshots and higher resolution.

Re:Valve and piracy

[bigstrat2003]

Oh, also they're the only game publisher that actually charges a reasonable price for games... Uh, not really. Valve charges about the same price any other publisher would charge. Half-Life 2 was $50 when it was released, and the price has come down since then due to age... just like would happen at any publisher. Not to mention that Valve has some shining examples of unreasonably high pricing, like charging $20 for Portal, which is all of a 2- or 3-hour game.

Re:Valve and piracy

[EvanED]

They don't really have anything to worry about- their madly popular titles are all multiplayer...

You mean "except for Half Life, Half Life 2, Episode 1 and 2, and Portal", don't you?

Re:Valve and piracy

[p0tat03]

I find Valve's pricing to be very reasonable. I bought the Deus Ex collection for $30, a better deal than I would've gotten at any other store, and the ability to find old titles certainly beats rummaging around the bargain bin at EB.

$20 for Portal is iffy, I agree, but consider that you get TF2, Portal, HL2, Ep1, and Ep2 for $50, it's a fricking steal. Even if you've already played all the singleplayer Half-Life games, TF2 + Portal combined is IMHO easily worth $50, particularly TF2.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Brian Gordon]

Do you still think Portal's price is unfair when it's part of Orange Box? Counter-Strike: Source and TF2 are both worth a full $50 but they've always retailed at $20 and $30. Episode 2 is worth eh $20. So portal's free per valve's pricing, and TF2 is disounted the entire price of portal for what I would pay for it!

Re:Valve and piracy

[ThinkingInBinary]

Do you still think Portal's price is unfair when it's part of Orange Box?

Hell, I thought Portal's price was fair when packaged alone! I normally expect to pay something like $50 for a really big game, so $20 for Portal, which is shorter than most games but quite excellent, was a good deal.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Brian Gordon]

But who plays HL2 for more than 20 or 30 hours total, ever? That's how much TF2 many people play in a WEEK, and how much CS players play in a day.

Re:Valve and piracy

[bigstrat2003]

I'm not talking about Portal as part of the Orange Box. I'm talking about the price of Portal, downloaded separately on Steam, which is a completely different issue.

Re:Valve and piracy

[bigstrat2003]

Except I'm not talking about the Orange Box here. The Orange Box is a great value (unless you only want one of the games), but that's not Portal. Portal's pricing has nothing to do with the pricing of the Orange Box, they're separate prices to be considered separately.

Re:Valve and piracy

[EvanED]

That's true. You're thinking playing time, I'm thinking sales. I think both make sense.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not worth arguing with fanboys. When it's a company that they don't like, DRM and bundling is WRONG WRONG WRONG. But when it's Valve and their precious widdle wideo-games, it's A-OK in their book.

Re:Valve and piracy

[enderjsv]

I agree. When some other companies are charging 50 bucks or more for utter crap games that make better coasters than pasttimes, I'm more than willing to pay 20 dollars for something of quality. LENGTH != QUALITY.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Brian Gordon]

Playing time does correspond somewhat to sales though.. it's the ultimate word-of-mouth when your roommate or friend plays CS every day and bugs you to play with him

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

I've played HL2 well over 100 hours (mostly Ravenholm). As for TF/TF2 & CS.. never played them. Multi-player bores me.
For me, Orange Box was a waste of money.. $70 (UK prices) just for Portal & Episode 2 but I still bought it and gave HL2 & EP1 away. Unfortunately there is currently no way to give away TF2.

Re:Valve and piracy

[croddy]

I found $20 to be quite reasonable for Portal.

Re:Valve and piracy

[RonnyJ]

How can I sell my DRM'd Steam games though? I might not actually get around to selling any of my old games, but I feel I should have the right to.

You mention that the music industry should be doing similar, but this is the equivalent of being unable to buy or sell second-hand audio CDs.

Re:Valve and piracy

[bigstrat2003]

More power to you, I guess. I felt like Valve has thoroughly raped the wallet of anyone who chose to purchase the game stand-alone (which I did, for better or worse): it's a really, really short game, which provides nowhere near $20 worth of entertainment, in my book. Excellent game, horribly overpriced.

Re:Valve and piracy

[ahoehn]

Exactly. With Valve games on Steam, you can:

1. Play your games on as many computers as you like, downloading them as many times as you want.
2. Install them on a friend's computer, and just like lending a book, your friend can use it any time that you're not.
3. Receive automatic content updates
4. Often chose to buy games individually or as a package.
5. Back up your downloaded copies of games
6. With HL2 Engine based games, even play them in Linux with Wine.

While I suppose you don't "own" physical copies of Steam games, I have enough rights that I never notice the downside.

The music and movie industries could learn a thing or six from Valve. I've never even thought of pirating a Valve game because they're so convenient and affordable to purchase.

Re:Valve and piracy

[no_opinion]

I've never used their platform. Can you be more specific about the services that you find beneficial and that make this a rights management instead of restrictions management system? Thanks!

Re:Valve and piracy

[geekoid]

IF it was part of the original TF2 release, I would ahve bought it. Since I already bought TF2, paying 50 bucks for the Orange Box is too expensive for me.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Spikeles]

Ah, you forgot they give you the right NOT to transfer your account to someone else, they give you the right NOT to re-sell your game, they give you the right NOT to complain if a publisher charges too much (eg, Call of Duty 4 for Aussies ), they give you the right NOT to loan your game, they give you the right NOT to complain when they delete your thread from the forums... Yes.. seems they give you lots of RIGHTS..

Re:Valve and piracy

[badboy_tw2002]

I'm actually pretty curious why they don't let you transfer rights to someone else - its not like you couldn't do it anyways. There's no limit on the number of accounts you could create, so you could:

a) Create a new account for each game
b) Buy the game with that account
c) Play game until you're bored
d) Sell account on ebay

I'm sure they have rules against this, but I'll bet it happens anyways. I know I did it when steam first launched to give a gift for christmas. I just created my brother an account, bought the game, and gave him the login. Now they have gift giving, and they let you transfer HL2 to someone else when you bought orange box, so I say "why not let me loan out the rights to one of my games to someone else?" I can't play it while they have the rights, and I can take the rights back when they're done. They could have a "transfer for good" or "let my friend borrow it" program. Its going to happen anyways, so why not enforce it and stop people complaining once and for all. They only hurt paying customers otherwise, because if your friend doesn't borrow it from you and doesn't want to pay for it, well, we know where they're going next.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Sparr0]

7. Forget to perform some witchery when closing steam before disconnecting from the internet for a while, and find yourself unable to play any steam games until you can get back on the internet days or weeks later.

Re:Valve and piracy

[KyleTheDarkOne]

But you can not forget that maybe it was a marketing ploy to help push portal, tf2 and episode 2. With all those saving people felt that it is worth it to get the whole bundle. Besides many people would not have experienced the brilliance that is portal except for the fact that it was in the bundle.

Re:Valve and piracy

[LurkerXXX]

Probably because too many more people would start doing it. Then when their friend/ex-roomate, etc doesn't 'give-it-back' when they are supposed to and keeps playing it and locking out the guy who paid for it, he's gonna go complaining to Valve and it's going to increase support costs for them for no real good reason.

So can folks do it already now if they really want to? Yes. Does Valve want encourage it and have to take on extra support for no extra income? I kinda doubt it.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Sczi]

Play it over a few times and listen to the dialog again, that's what I did. Or play the challenge maps where you try to beat the levels using the fewest number of portals possible. I think it was the last one where I actually beat the #1 score by 2 portals (14 instead of 16). Hell, the end song alone would be worth a buck on itunes. =]

Re:Valve and piracy

[badboy_tw2002]

Ah, but you have two types of transfers - a "transfer ownership" and a "loan". The ownership gives them the rights for good: they can transfer it to someone else or keep it forever. The loan means you can take it back whenever you want - the other guy is just borrowing it (but even better giving them than the disc or powertools- you can actually get this one back! :)

Re:Valve and piracy

[lachlan76]

The Steam service is busy. Please try again later

You should never see a message like that on a single-player game.

Re:Valve and piracy

[bigstrat2003]

I judge a game based on how long my initial play-through of the single-player game takes (if it's a single-player game, at any rate). I consider that to be a fair, relatively impartial standard. While I may play a game through more than once (and I have played Portal 3 times, I think), I still make my judgement of its value based on the initial play-through, and nothing more. Anything after that is a bonus, not something which factors into my judgement.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Walpurgiss]

I judge new games against the $9.99 I paid for The Bouncer by Squaresoft. I figure, if a $9.99 game lasts 2 hours, then getting 4 out of Portal would be ok.

Re:Valve and piracy

[ludomancer]

Do you work for valve or something? Because I've got some pretty valid counterarguments to your rediculous assertions here:

- There is no difference in the cost between valves pricing and a physical retail package. I consider Valve an even larger thief than the usual publishers, specifically because they don't have the overhead of a game that sells in physical stores.

- You say they have Digital Rights and not Restrictions. When was the last time you tried to play Half Life 2 without being logged on to Steam (so they could monitor your usage, your PC specs, and other data for marketing research)?

You're blind or full of shit. I don't know who modded you up, but if I had a gravity gun I know exactly which one of your orifices I'd stick it in....

Re:Valve and piracy

[AstrumPreliator]

The music and movie industries could learn a thing or six from Valve.

Let me preface this by saying I've not used any other services except iTunes so this may be different elsewhere.
Recently my laptop hard drive died and I lost most of my music. For the most part this was stuff I ripped from CDs however, I had bought about 4 albums off of iTunes but only had 2 of them backed up somewhere. After I reinstalled everything I was kind of pissed I would have to buy the 2 albums I lost again, instead I just pirated them. If there's one thing I like about Steam it's that if your hard drive crashes or you want to play on a different computer then that's cool, you can just redownload it. I really do wish the music and movie industry were more like this, but then again they would prefer to make more money by having you repurchase the same thing.

While I suppose you don't "own" physical copies of Steam games...

With Steam it's like they give you the right to play the game, you bought it so you get to play it until your eyes bleed, it's yours*. With the music and movie industry they sell you the right to listen to it until they want more money from you which is around the time you lose your physical copy or they want you to buy it on a new format**.

(*) I'm aware of all the things that could go wrong with Steam and its business model, but so far it's been pretty good. There are things I don't like about it but I think it'll continue to improve.
(**) Higher definition video and sound is great, but with even more (potential) DRM I'm not sure it's worth the money to buy my movie collection over again.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Kreigaffe]

I hope you read this because I'm blowing my chance of modding something, and for once a subject that actually interests me has coincided with mod points..

You are obviously doing something wrong. Steam is open, you disconnect from the internet? Close steam, restart steam, click the "Start in Offline mode" button. OR, simply open the Games menu, go to File, and down to the "Go Offline" option. ... it's really not hard. You can use steam and never ever connect to the internet and still play any of the single-player games with no problems whatsoever.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Valve has a VeRO account and will shut down any eBay auction that tries to sell the account on eBay. Just read Valve's terms and conditions.

Re:Valve and piracy

[TheSpengo]

Actually, I don't mind Steam DRM mostly because once I pay for the game it pretty much lets me do whatever I want with it. I can log on to steam from any computer and download and play any game I own rather than having a limited number of installs with a CD key or something. There's nothing particularly restricting about Steam other than you do need one copy of the game per person (can't have the same account logged in at two locations). Also, although the software used to be horrible, hard to use, and with really really slow download servers, it has since evolved into a much better program and the new Steam Friends stuff has pretty much replaced Xfire for me. On a side note, it's still pretty easy to pirate steam games if you want, but as usual you will get no online play except on cracked servers. This goes for pretty much all recent games though, heh.

Re:Valve and piracy

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

they provide so many top-quality services at the mere input of your password on any computer in the country that I'd rather have the DRMed version than the CD version.

I'll take the CD version any day. I just create an image of it and I don't have to log on to anything, don't have to have an Internet connection, don't have to worry about someone else's servers or connections getting flaky, don't have to worry about the company going out of business or just deciding one day that they don't want me to use my games any more, don't have to ask other people for permission to use my own stuff, etc...

CD imaging software is the sort of Digital Rights Management system that I prefer - one that is focused on managing MY rights rather than someone else's.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Perseid]

"There is no difference in the cost between valves pricing and a physical retail package"

This is sometimes true, sometimes not. Your best deals usually come in the bundles. Besides, one should look at the value a game provides them, not how much it costs in relation to publisher expenses. How does that really matter to the end gamer?

"When was the last time you tried to play Half Life 2 without being logged on to Steam"

"Offline mode". It works as advertised.

I don't like DRM and there are parts of Steam I don't like either. Overall, though, I am not offended by Steam. It's relatively unrestrictive about how you play your games and what systems you install it on and does add features of its own.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Xinef Jyinaer]

By your logic I could sell you Space Invaders for an infinite amount of money since there is no ending. There is always a score left in which you can beat, unless you never stop playing (never die).

Re:Valve and piracy

[FreyarHunter]

Technically you can't. The license (which is what you buy) is to you, and only to you. The medium itself is trivial.

Re:Valve and piracy

[urbanriot]

I spend more than $20 for a round of drinks when I'm out at night... $20 for the wonderful enjoyment that Portal gave me, a game I'll never forget, was well worth it. $20 is f-all.

$20 for Portal is iffy, I agree, but consider that you get TF2, Portal, HL2, Ep1, and Ep2 for $50, it's a fricking steal. Even if you've already played all the singleplayer Half-Life games, TF2 + Portal combined is IMHO easily worth $50, particularly TF2.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Morkano]

I found $20 to be quite reasonable for Portal.

In fact I found the $50 to be quite reasonable. Getting HL2 and episodes one and two along with TF2 for free was a nice bonus. But portal was worth the price of admission alone.

A game doesn't have to be long to be fun. It was tight with no wasted moments. A lot of games could be a lot better if they just cut out a lot of the crap that's just designed to make it take longer to finish.

Re:Valve and piracy

[AngelofDeath-02]

There may be legal reasons why they can't offer games at a lower price than the retail package. Valve doesn't actually package them, they use a different company. (Activison, I think?)

When they first introduced steam, that company made a big hoopla about it being against their contract and such. (Think about it - if you can buy it online, and don't have to buy it from the stores... you think that packaging company makes any money?)
The situation would be a bit worse if it was substantially cheaper online ...

Now - will they do anything different, should this agreement change? ... probably not.

Re:Valve and piracy

[AngelofDeath-02]

I was looking for more of a challenge personally ...
I'm at stage 18 or 19 thus far (of 19)
The previous 17 stages were training exercises that pretty much - just introduced a new dynamic to the game. It was like being taught how to play rather than having a puzzle to creatively solve.

I applaud the game for applying a (To me) unique concept, and making it entertaining with some of the level design features (Like the writings on the wall, the talking iTurrets, and the companion cube. There was a lot of well spirited (if not demented) love put into the game. But... So far, I find it lacking. It hasn't been a challenge thus far. The solutions are obvious. The only things that were difficult were in execution; such as the backwards moving platforms, and double-jumping through the use of making a portal as you fall. The concepts = easy... Doing them ... not so much.

I'm hoping that the free levels I saw somewhere will provide me with the entertainment I desire =)

Re:Valve and piracy

[sunderland56]

Eh? Half Life and Half Life 2 are both single player, are madly popular, and are what made Valve the giant corporation they are today.

True, they have multiplayer spin-offs (Deathmatch) and third-party mods - but the basic games are single-player.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Pyrion]

I guess you've never heard of Stardock?

Unlike Steam, I can have SDC running on multiple computers downloading games and updates to games without any of this "you can only log in on one machine" bullshit.

Re:Valve and piracy

[brandonY]

Wait...you judge a game based on how long your initial play-through of the single-player game takes?

The initial playthrough of Nethack takes roughly 10 seconds. By your system, it's one of the worst games ever.

But wait, perhaps you mean you judge a game based on how long it takes to reach a successful ending. In Nethack, you can walk up the staircase to freedom. Successful end. By your system, Nethack's one of the worst games ever.

But wait, maybe Nethack IS one of the worst games ever and your system is fine. Let's look at a different game. How about Monkey Island? Involved plot, adventure game, several hours of play. But wait, pressing CTRL+W wins the game. Whoops. One of the worst games ever.

So maybe we'll redefine "initial play-through" to mean 'beating' the game without any workarounds, seeing a large percentage of the contents of the game, and reaching some sort of conclusion. By that logic, "Heroin Hero" is an infinitely good game.

But wait, why am I ever arguing about this? Surely a 500-hour boring game isn't nearly as good as a 100-hour awesome game, is it?

Re:Valve and piracy

[deadpool42]

Have you actually tried playing anything after doing that? If you want to actually play offline, you need to enable offline mode, run the game you want to play so it updates (even though when I tried it with TF2 it downloaded nothing, but still wouldn't play until you ran it first in online mode), and then it will be available in offline mode.

Regardless of difficulty, it's pretty ridiculous that you have to prepare for an Internet outage.

Re:Valve and piracy

[p0tat03]

The bonus stages are definitely challenging, though none are impossible by any stretch of the imagination. They do give your brain a bit to chew on though!

For REAL challenges, try to go for the "fewest portals", "fastest time", and "fewest steps" challenges. Some of those are nigh impossible. I like the fewest portals challenges, since they actually emphasize brainwork.

Re:Valve and piracy

[SCHPONG]

Here in Norway the price of games on Steam are 30-50% cheaper than in the store. I guess we can thank the weak dollar for that :) It's also way more convenient since the Steam store is available 24/7 and I don't have to move my lazy ass down town to buy a game.

Re:Valve and piracy

[heinousjay]

While it's certainly fair that you use any criteria you want when judging value, your logic is completely illogical. Don't be too surprised that your opinion stands alone.

Re:Valve and piracy

[richy freeway]

You haven't even got to the cake! You've got a fair bit more gaming to do yet. The first 18 chambers are merely practice for the best bit.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you want to see the fast-approaching dawn of "Trusted Computing"? Keep your eye on Valve. They have very close links with Microsoft (one of the architects of Treacherous Computing), and the TPMs in machines will be a BIG draw for them and their plans to deliver "content" to expensive TPM-shackled cable boxes, like Intel-based Apple Macs.

Re:Valve and piracy

[OakLEE]

Well if you're paying less for them on Steam than you are for the CD, I'd venture that the discount you get factors in the loss you suffer by not being able the resell them, assuming that you could even resell a used game for $20 ($50 for the CD minus $30 for the Steam copy).

Re:Valve and piracy

[Talgrath]

You could just let someone use your account...the only thing preventing anyone else from using it is YOUR username and password. And, you are quite welcome to complain if a publisher charges too much, as much as with a physical copy; you can send a letter to the publisher, you can write an e-mail to the publisher or you can call the publisher's complaint line (assuming they have one anymore). True, you can't let someone borrow a game from you, but you could let them borrow your account (just change the password afterwords). And finally, I don't know of a forum in the world that does not reserve the right to delete a thread if they so choose; particularly a forum created by a game publisher, have you ever been on a forum before you went on Steam's forums? If not, I'll give you the heads up; every forum has tons of deleted forum messages, because they were deemed offensive, off-topic, just plain stupid, for legal reasons or because they violated one or more forum policy.

Re:Valve and piracy

[FlyveHest]

hey give you the right NOT to complain if a publisher charges too much (eg, Call of Duty 4 for Aussies )

Why in the world would you complain to Valve about this? The price in EU is also priced about 18$ above store-price, but this is in not part Valves fault (or, problem for that matter)

If Activision decides that the price point should be this and that, then Valve, as a distributor, really can't (and shouldn't, imho) begin to, its wholly up to the publisher to decide.

If you want, send an e-mail to Activisions offices in your country (I did), and let them know what a boneheaded move it is, but please, don't blame Valve for Activions less-than-sane decision.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Smidge204]

Fortunately Portal has a very strong community behind it with some very interesting and challenging custom maps.

http://www.myaperturelabs.com/
http://halflife2.filefront.com/files/Portal/Maps;9887
http://www.thinkingwithportals.com/

(To name a few)

Sure there's a lot of crappy maps - especially some of the older ones when the game first came out - but there's a lot of really good ones that add new game play mechanics like altered gravity fields and unique physics objects. Definitely worth checking out.
=Smidge=

Re:Valve and piracy

[gfxguy]

The most important thing, in that respect, is that you are free to copy your stuff anywhere you want - work, other computers at home, friends computers, wherever; like the old philosophy "it's like a book, you can share it, but only one person can read it at a time," your account can only be logged in from any one location.

So you can make backups, you can transfer to as many computers as you want (I have it on my laptop and several desktops at home) - they still have their rights, and you still have yours.

Re:Valve and piracy

[gfxguy]

It's true... I've also heard their agreements included not charging less than the retail box price (non-compete with vendors).

They should just stop boxing altogether.

Re:Valve and piracy

[DrunkenOaf]

I judge a game based on how long my initial play-through of the single-player game takes (if it's a single-player game, at any rate). I consider that to be a fair, relatively impartial standard.

So do you also judge movies by how long they are, and books by how many pages they have? It might be impartial, but it sure as hell doesn't make The Da Vinci Code better than, say, Of Mice And Men.

Re:Valve and piracy

[wallyhall]

Please excuse me if I've completely misunderstood how software is "sold", if someone could polietly correct me being wrong, I'd appreciate it.

As I understand it, you never "buy" software. Rather you purchase the right to use it. When you "sell" software, you're actually selling the right to use it. With software that comes on a CD, you can sell on your right to use the software, and hand over the CD (and license key) with it. People do infact sell Steam games (which they've bought on CD/DVD), but it results in some other poor guy not being able to register the copy on their steam account themself!

So if I've understood your point correctly, I think it's quite valid. When we buy the right to use the software, should companies like steam be thinking about allowing us a way to "pass that on"?

Just my thoughts.

Re:Valve and piracy

[randyest]

they give you the right NOT to complain if a publisher charges too much (eg, Call of Duty 4 for Aussies ), they give you the right NOT to complain when they delete your thread from the forums... Yes.. seems they give you lots of RIGHTS..

Did they mess up giving you those rights "not to complain?" Because it sure looks like you're complaining about both of those issues to me.

You're wrong on the other bits too: you can transfer an account (just give away your username/pw,) you can re-sell a game (same as giving away, except for money,) and you can loan (same as giving away, except doing it temporarily.

Oh, you wanted Valve to manage all that for you and provide the enforcement for return of the loan or sale? So like, if you loan your game and the guy doesn't give it back, you want to be able to whine to Valve and have them enforce the terms of the private deal you made? Sure. That's reasonable. Just like how, when you loan your store-bought game, Walmart will send thugs to get it back for you if your friend doesn't return it.

Re:Valve and piracy

[wild_quinine]

Steam is really the first digital RIGHTS management system instead of digital restrictions management. I really don't see how it's any better to call it that. They manage your right to resell the games you've paid for, by not letting you. They manage your rights to play the games you've paid for if you break any of their terms and conditions of service, by cutting you off. They think you've tried to cheat in Counterstrike? Bang. Goodbye to every other online steam game you've bought and paid for. Refund? Don't make me laugh. That right is extremely managed. If they're rights I honestly don't see why they need to be managed.

Re:Valve and piracy

[eastlight_jim]

The main problem I have with Offline mode with Steam is it is impossible to start in offline mode (for whatever reason you choose) if you have an active internet connection. You have to disable the ethernet link or pull the cable out before starting steam. Surely you should be able to choose offline mode whenever you want? The case in point would be if you want to play a game now but not wait to download an update that you don't want or need.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Sparr0]

I always read replies, so thanks... But perhaps Steam has changed since I gave up on it. When I last used it, if you disconnected from the internet before going into offline mode then you could not play any games (for lack of "Authentication") until you got back online, even SP games.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Atriqus]

Yeah, it's against their EULA to sell a steam account; but just as you expected, it's completely unenforceable. They can get some sites to take down the listings, but they can't stop every means. And really the only way to trace it is if the person who bought it admits it on the steampowered forums. I think the main reason why they don't allow the transfer of licenses is, because of the excessive convenience factor compared to any other distribution method, they are worried that steam would turn into just one big game swap and that sales would grind to a halt. Maybe some day they'll figure out a way to manage license transfers so it would still be possible without scaring off current or potential (software developer) clients.

Re:Valve and piracy

[uncledrax]

> 6. With HL2 Engine based games, even play them in Linux with Wine.

Actually don't forget you can do this with the Unreal Based games on Steam as well.

I think I'm with alot of people in that they would like to see a native Steam client for *nix.. I'd have to say that most people that run Nix and would be running steam would have enough brain power to realize not all games will run on *nix, and i'd be ok with having a little reminder or compatibility flag on the game. /me is biased.

Re:Valve and piracy

[kfx]

Indeed, Stardock's system has most all of the benefits of Steam, with a lot fewer drawbacks. Particularly, one-time activation upon install (or first update of a retail copy). After that, you don't need internet or even SDC installed on the machine. You just play the games and that's it.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Specter]

I can say this: I just built a new gaming rig and it was _very_ nice to just be able to install steam, login, and then tell it to reinstall all of my games on the new box while I went to bed. No more CD shuffle for my Steam games.

As for those who'd argue about the pricing: no one forces you to buy the games via Steam. I usually just wait for the games I want to go on sale at a local store and them upload them to Steam afterwards. I got the entire Orange box for $25 over Black Friday.

Re:Valve and piracy

[BalorTFL]

I'm not sure whether it's quite as bad as you imply, but regardless, there's an easy solution to that problem: use your firewall to block it! Assuming that you're using something beyond SP2's attempt at a built-in firewall (I use ZoneAlarm, myself), you should be able to just deny Steam Access to the network when it tries to connect without difficulty.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not have option to transfer titles from one steam account to another. Then you can sell your games. Hey, give me $10 and I'll transfer my Portal from my account to yours and I can't access it anymore and you can. A bonus is that downloads don't get scratched up like CD/DVD's do.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Xentor]

Stardock is amazing for the customer, but it won't work on a large scale, with "popular" games (Even the big-budget games they offer are generally several years old). They're basically trusting that if they give us something at a reasonable price without restrictions, we won't take advantage of it.

I'm sure most of Slashdot applauds this kind of business model, as do I, but you know the publishers wouldn't dream of allowing it for their blockbuster titles, because the publishers haven't gotten it through their head that no matter how well you copy-protect a game, it WILL be cracked and pirated.

Personally, though, I hope they do manage to expand the service... I've been using it since they started that flat-rate plan (Well, that's gone now - Not sustainable), and it really is a great system. Unless they're quietly watermarking everything (No objection to that), I haven't noticed any DRM at all. Click to install, click to play... Easy.

Ugh, I sound like an advertisement... Ok, so there are some crappy games on the service, but there are good ones too. Check demos and reviews, and filter out the good ones.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

This is 100% the main reason Steam sucks and should never be trusted. I know Valve is the Apple of the computer gaming world and can do no wrong, but Valve is sugar coated evil. You may be happy with Portal and all the other crap (and I don't deny they make good games, that's not why I refer to them as crap), but all in all, that game is never yours. You can never backup that game. You must have an active internet connection to install and play it, and lastly, Steam says if you can play it, arbitrarily in some cases, based even on geographic location. I know the trip from one Slashdotter's basement to the next Slashdotter's basement isn't normally that far, but if you switch countries or regions Valve has proven they don't mind disabling your games. According to the TOS, they can likely change their mind about when to disable your games at will.

And finally in 10 years, when you want to show your kid how wonderful Portal is, enjoy not being able to, because those servers probably won't exist, and the promised universal unlock won't have been released (I can promise this, beyond any shadow of a doubt, there is not any scenario of a catastrophic failure of Valve to continue in business that would allow the release of this unlock).

Re:Valve and piracy

[Sigma 7]

- There is no difference in the cost between valves pricing and a physical retail package. I consider Valve an even larger thief than the usual publishers, specifically because they don't have the overhead of a game that sells in physical stores. Do you know why Fileplanet implemented a service were paying subscribers get a better download priority? They need to cover the cost of the download servers. Likewise, Valve needs to have enough high-bandwidth servers in order to allow many players to download content onto their computer.

There's also the case of undercutting the retail stores - if the game price on Steam is lower than what's found in retail stores, then the stores will believe there's no point in stocking that game.

- You say they have Digital Rights and not Restrictions. When was the last time you tried to play Half Life 2 without being logged on to Steam (so they could monitor your usage, your PC specs, and other data for marketing research)? Last time I tried to do so was when I still had dial-up. Haven't needed to do that in a long time, but you still have the option to do so. If you have trouble with the offline mode, you may want to post details about the error message(s) you are getting.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Some_Llama]

"there's an easy solution to that problem: use your firewall to block it!"

that's not an easy solution, blocking and unblocking ports for an application is a PITA, an easy solution is to allow steam to ALWAYS allow offline mode regardless.

the other day i couldn't play online or off and many others had the same problem because the clientregistry.blob was corrupted. this was not my fault, steam did something wrong, but yet i could even play in offline mode (I have 20 games under steam currently) while waiting for some resolution in the forums.

4 hours.. not cool.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Some_Llama]

"The first 18 chambers are merely practice for the best bit."

SPOILER

falling into the fire and dying is not what i consider "best bit" by any stretch of the imagination. >.

Re:Valve and piracy

[SoulMan007]

SPOLIER The game doesn't end with you getting 'baked'.. if your observant, you'll notice a way out and on to the last 1/4 of the game

Re:Valve and piracy

[BalorTFL]

I'm not talking about manually blocking incoming ports - most decent firewall programs will allow you to control which applications get outbound access. For Steam, I have ZA set to prompt me at boot time whether or not I want to allow it to connect. As far as I can tell, clicking "No" instead of "Yes" in a dialog bubble is about as easy as it gets. Steam does have its downsides, I'll admit, but auto-updating and being able to play any game in their catalog without swapping CD's all the time make up for them in spades.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

the steam platform is

The whole steam thing is miserable. I don't want my computer talking to anything to play Half Life 2 and I don't want it insisting on periodic updates that crash my machine. I won't buy Valve games anymore because of how bad Steam sucks.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't really have anything to worry about- their madly popular titles are all multiplayer

Ah, yes, all those multiplayer games like Portal and Half-Life 2.

Oh, wait.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Some_Llama]

i see, that would be easier than a hardware firewall (which i have) but software firewalls are pointless anyway. I agree steam is a good product and does a hell of a lot better than other DRM schemes, this is one of the things that pisses me off tho so i choose to bitch and moan until something is done ;)

Re:Valve and piracy

[Spikeles]

Guess you havn't read Valve's EULA for Steam recently.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Minozake]

The big problem with Steam is once you buy the software license, you cannot sell it. They don't support it, and it's bullshit.

It's still digital restrictions management.

Re:Valve and piracy

[rossjudson]

I'd like to add that when I transitioned from XP to Vista, every Steam-based game I owned made the transition flawlessly. I can't say the same for the disk-based protection crap. And I hate having to look for CDs just to play a game. At this point I pretty much avoid buying anything that comes on disc, and always buy on Steam or Direct2Drive if possible.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Some_Llama]

WHAAAAA?!?!

Re:Valve and piracy

[Andrew Kismet]

Go back and play it again. And again. And again. Until you realise what you're supposed to do - maybe look at the achievements page and realize you're missing both "Partygoer" and "Heartbreaker" (the latter is for beating Portal)

Re:Valve and piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

yes if you disconnect while you are online you must reconnect

that is why you simply restart steam in offline mode

you will still be able to play single player games

also if you lose connection you can turn steam into offline mode kill then start it back up

like magic you will be able to play your single player games

Re:Valve and piracy

[armareum]

.and you can do one of the rooms in just two portals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4J3-CVuzqM

Re:Valve and piracy

[Scudsucker]

Do you know why Fileplanet implemented a service were paying subscribers get a better download priority? They need to cover the cost of the download servers. Likewise, Valve needs to have enough high-bandwidth servers in order to allow many players to download content onto their computer.

But bandwidth isn't that expensive. If Apple can rent a 1.2 gigabyte movies for $3, I doubt it costs Valve that much money.

There's also the case of undercutting the retail stores - if the game price on Steam is lower than what's found in retail stores, then the stores will believe there's no point in stocking that game.

Nice for them, but as a consumer I don't care. What bothers me more is how they charge new game prices for expansion packs.

Re:Valve and piracy

[Restil]

In all fairness, as long as Valve is around, steam or its equivalent will be as well. Should it shut down and go away, one of two things are likely to happen. Either they will release a patch for all games that will allow all games to be played offline permanently, or some random cracking group (or 10) will accomplish the same task for you on their behalf. It's really not an issue I lose too much sleep over.

-Restil

Finally!

[PopeGumby]

social networking services

After all these years, my dreams of playing as a violent, gun-toting, car-stealing, cop-killing psycopath who uses MySpace to invite all his BFFs to his Sweet-16 party is coming true.

As a longtime XboxLive user, I'd prefer it if they were reducing the amount of social networking in games, rather than increasing it.

Re:Finally!

[Brian Gordon]

Have you seen steam community? Basically you join a group of people that you know from elsewhere on the internet, and any time in game you just open the overlay (hit pagedown) to display your open chat rooms and steam IM windows. You can see what games everyone's playing and can join the same server as them. This is great for games with long respawn like Counter-Strike.. just hit the overlay and spec the rest of the round through the semitransparent chat windows as you chat

Insert steam hate

[discord5]

They have just announced the release of a complete collection of publisher tools, called Steamworks

Which will probably mean you'll be forced to deal with steam as an end-user. This is great news for all those who've seen Steam flat out refuse to start their games because the Steam servers were too busy (yes, single player games).

As a developer I'd be extremely wary of this as well, since I've just become dependent on something I have very little control over. I'm pretty sure that when I'm not paying a penny, Valve will gladly make sure that everything is working 100% of the time.

FWIW, steam does have its benefits, but the amount of problems I've had with steam as a player don't give me much confidence as a developer.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Gideon Fubar]

This is a real problem, though it should be noted that this doesn't happen after a game is signed to play offline.

also, the early implementations of the platform were quite buggy, in both client and network services. Most of these issues are sorted, but not all of them.

Re:Insert steam hate

[enderjsv]

Leave it to a slashdot poster to find something to complain about with a free development kit. It's free, man. You get what you pay for.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Brian Gordon]

I've never had any problems with steam connecting, but if you can't connect to the steam servers just disconnect your network and it'll let you play single player games with no fuss, since I've played HL2 many times without networking. "offline mode" it's called.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Goldberg's Pants]

I've been using Steam for over two years now and have NEVER had a game fail to start. The only problem I had was with Trackmania, and that was entirely down to the games own servers, not Steam.

Steam's benefits far outweigh it's problems IMO. I can buy a game and be playing it within an hour. Within minutes if it's a small game. ("Gish" for example.) No disks to lose, no serial numbers to lose. If I have to reinstall I can just download all my games again rather than having to find disks, installers, license keys etc...

Curious to see how many developers take Valve up on this.

Re:Insert steam hate

[EvanED]

I just had a problem last night starting EP2. I think it wanted to update itself, and the servers were busy. I turned off automatic updating (didn't try offline mode though), but that didn't work.

A minute later it did successfully start though, so this wasn't too bad.

The HUGE annoyance I had with Steam was when I bought Portal not long after its release. For several straight hours, their servers were too busy to serve it to me.

The new annoyance I have is that you can't give a game to someone else. I bought Portal standalone, then later got the Orange Box. So I should have an extra Portal license I can give away, right? No.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Chyeld]

I've only once had an issue with Steam's servers. The year Seattle got taken out by storms, their servers were down for a day. That's in all the years that I've played with Steam. One day.

I'm willing to give them that, given that's a better track record than my computer or any of the MMO's I've played, or any other similar platform (i.e. Xbox Live).

Re:Insert steam hate

[Elyscape]

Actually, you can use SteamWorks without using Steam. Or at least, that's what the SteamWorks website seems to say:

Whether you're publishing your games on Steam or not, Steamworks lets you take advantage of Steam features in retail products. Obviously, using SteamWorks would make things more easily added to Steam and allow for better integration, but it doesn't seem that you need to use Steam to get its benefits. You might not be able to reap all the rewards without it, but at least some of them are independent.

Re:Insert steam hate

[makomk]

Nope; what they're saying there is that publishers can use SteamWorks without offering up their game for download via Steam. I think you still have to use Steam to run the games.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Brian Gordon]

You can buy games specifically for someone else, and with the Orange Box valve let you gift your HL2 and/or HL2E1 if you already owned it, but there's no way to transfer games. I think that's literally the only restriction you have on what you can do with the games... they even let you copy your games to discs if you really want a hard copy!

Re:Insert steam hate

[Gideon Fubar]

The problem occurs most often with a new, boxed game, on a computer with limited (or no) network access. Often, the people who buy games aren't fully aware that they'll need to activate them via steam, and that's where the problem arises. Of course, they could just read the packaging..

If you use steam the way it's really intended to be used (downloading all your games via a decent connection) it works great.. but there's never a one-size-fits-all solution.

Re:Insert steam hate

[TubeSteak]

but there's no way to transfer games. I think that's literally the only restriction you have on what you can do with the games... they even let you copy your games to discs if you really want a hard copy! That's generous of them, letting us simple folk copy games to disc if we really want a hardcopy.

I guess it's to much to ask for them allow us our legal right to exercise the first sale rule

Re:Insert steam hate

[geekoid]

well, not allowing people to resell is going to bite them in the ass sooner or later. The resale Doctrine in the US is taken very seriously by the courts.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Creepy Crawler]

We have total annihilation tournaments every 2 or so weeks around these parts. There's ungodly amounts of mods to go through, so we're busy killing each other with super-nukes, extremely long range plasma cannons, walking spiders 3x as big as krogoths, teleportation systems, you name it. And to top it off, unofficial patches for 5000 units per side (up to 10 players).

TA requires that you honor the license. They asked that you buy 1 legit copy for every 3 lan players. Yes, a decent lan gaming policy, along with the 30 second "multiplayer install". There were no serial numbers to keep track of, no codebooks to flip through, no cd checks (the one is solved by copying that big texture file over to HD).

It's been 10 years since TA started. Will your license servers be up in 10 years? Not even googles' servers were...

Re:Insert steam hate

[Anonymous Coward]

well, not allowing people to resell is going to bite them in the ass sooner or later. The resale Doctrine in the US is taken very seriously by the courts. If that were true, wouldn't they have gone after Apple for the iTunes Music Store by now?

Re:Insert steam hate

[Grant_Watson]

Leave it to a slashdot poster to find something to complain about with a free development kit. It's free, man. You get what you pay for.

And I as an end-user get what the developer pays for. I've avoided Steam and any game that requires it so far; I just wish there were more like me.

Re:Insert steam hate

[lachlan76]

The point is that you can't use the game, and hence you don't get what you pay for.

Re:Insert steam hate

[enderjsv]

I see your point, but I still don't think it's something to complain about. I'm assuming it will be mostly small, independent developers that use this kit. And I doubt Steam distribution and validation will be required if the developer decides not to use the methods of protection included in the kit.

I guess it just seems absurd to me that people would criticize Valve for giving out free shit, especially when that free shit is primarily helping the little guy (little guys being so rare in todays gaming industry).

Re:Insert steam hate

[Reble_45]

I definetly have to agree. I have had so many problems with steam that its not even funny anymore. I run a laptop and its a pain in the ass when i'm away from home or a wi-fi connection, and the HL2 Engine will crash my computer or steam will lock up and force me to reboot it, and when i get it back up, I cannot play any of my OFFLINE games because i havent connected to the Internet FIRST. WTH is the deal with that anyway. I understand the anti-piracy deal, but i paid for the offline game, and want it to work offline period. on the other hand for games such as EVE online which are just doing marketing and selling initial cd-keys, and then just booting the games EXE file seperately, thats great, it gets games like eve more spotlight attention and in the end, is good for the whole community, because it brings new players in. thats great, but if your going to work a program like this in, at least make sure the god damn thing works correctly. Reble Out....

Re:Insert steam hate

[Danse]

The problem occurs most often with a new, boxed game, on a computer with limited (or no) network access. Or on computers with broadband access. If the servers are overloaded, which happens with new games sometimes, then you're out of luck. It happened to me with HL2/CSS.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Gideon Fubar]

Sure, but that was released over 3 years ago, and Steam has come quite a way since then.. Haven't seen it happen with a release game in a while. Have seen it with other authentication platforms recently though. Bioshock's authentication, for example, was a nightmare on release. Those of us in the southern hemisphere effectively had the release delayed by two days while they tried to get the auth servers stable again.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Travoltus]

I don't care if Valve pays me to download their developer tools, I don't want anything to do with Valve.

Their policy of forcing you to register and identify yourself with them to play a single player game, grates HARD against my sense of privacy (I never play multiplayer games anyway because of all the flaming racists and trash talking pimple faced teenagers). When I buy a game to play it in single player mode, I do not tolerate, I DO NOT TOLERATE companies that make me have to identify myself to them. Zero tolerance. Go to Communist China if you feel you have to collect information on everyone who buys your crap: keep your crap out of America.

I would pay a year's salary, though, to someone who could put Valve out of business and make a goosebump-raising, spine tingling example of them (bankruptcy, outing of corporate CEO personal information to the world that mirrors their demanding of OUR information, etc.) for their subtle privacy-busting tactics, such that no other developer would desire to follow their path.

It may not bother you now, but wait until you buy a few more majorly popular $[non multiplayer game] titles and find you have to go even further and submit your name, phone #, etc. ONLINE to the publisher, in order to play. Then you'll wonder how things got that bad. It got that bad because you're so apathetic now.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Goldberg's Pants]

Well server related stuff on release day is universally fucked. I mean look at World of Warcraft. Physical disk, server meltdown. Delivery media makes no difference if any part of the system falls apart.

And you SHOULD be able to gift Portal to someone. I already owned HL2 when I bought the Orange Box and I now have "1 Gift" listed next to HL2, so if you've not got that you should contact them, as you can give away one copy if you have two. There is clearly a glitch in the system, as you DO have two licenses.

Re:Insert steam hate

[EvanED]

The gifting system for the Orange Box was only set up to work for HL2 and Episode 1. I don't know if this was a deliberate decision on their part, or if they didn't bother to make the mechanism work for the other titles because they figured no one would be daft enough to buy Portal/Ep2/TF2 alone and then buy the Orange Box. ;-)

(For my case, I bought Portal separately. At that point I hadn't done Ep1 yet. I then went through Ep1, said "wow, I really want Ep2 now", and about the same time saw that Best Buy was selling the Orange Box for $25 on Black Friday. So I bought it.)

Re:Insert steam hate

[agrapentin]

Don't forget your tinfoil hat.

Re:Insert steam hate

[ipsi]

And how, exactly, do you propose that the software companies ensure that you're not keeping a copy of the software after selling it? With Steam it might work, as you could transfer your license to someone else's account. But that's really the only way to do it, isn't it? Have the publisher keep track of who owns the game. With software that doesn't require activation, or some other method of only allowing one copy to be used at any one time, it's simply too easy to abuse. So easy that you'd be legalizing piracy. Imagine that if you buy a game which requires only a CD Key. No activation, no online play, nothing that conceivably cause conflict if you kept your version. If you sell that to person A, you could keep your copy. There's nothing preventing you, except your own morals. Please note that the law doesn't prevent it, in the sense that it will actually come around to your house and stop you from playing or installing it, it just means that when (or if) you get caught, you're subject to damages, and maybe more severe penalties. And then person A could sell it to person B. Again, entirely legal. They bought it, they can resell it, from what I understand in the Wikipedia article. But Person A could also keep a copy, right? Again, assuming they have lax enough morals that they don't see a problem, what's stopping them? But instead of selling it, they could just give it away.

So if they give it away, one person buys something, and then suddenly everyone they know has a copy, as A gives to B who gives to C who gives to D who gives to E... etc. And it's all legal, in the sense that they are entitled to resell it. They're not entitled to keep a copy. That's illegal. But who'd know? And who, after 'giving' their copy away, would tell? Sure, it'd break down with a large enough number of people, but if it's just you and a couple of friends...

So I'm just curious about how you plan to prevent this while still allowing first-sale rights. And DRM is a valid solution. I'm just assuming that you want to be able to have your cake and eat it too.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Goldberg's Pants]

Oh man, that sucks! I don't recall reading that. You should still contact them about it. Worst they can say is "piss off".

I've not even finished HL2 yet myself:) Lost my save (too bad Steam doesn't store them remotely) so have to start again.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Ash-Fox]

Sure, but that was released over 3 years ago, and Steam has come quite a way since then..

I had problems getting Orange Box, Call of Duty 4: Modern warfare on release. So no, I don't agree.

I'll also note that Steam has regular downtime when it comes to the friends system still.

And no, I didn't do the preorder thing, where it downloads the game in advanced (but unplayable until it's released) before it's even officially released.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Brian Gordon]

Well you should have. I bought orange box and had it fully downloaded the week before the release. At the tick of the second hand past midnight, the game instantly unlocked and I played ep2 all night.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Ash-Fox]

Well you should have.

I am not interested in buying a game before it's out. I want to hear the first impression of my friends first before getting it.

I bought orange box and had it fully downloaded the week before the release. At the tick of the second hand past midnight, the game instantly unlocked and I played ep2 all night.

That's great, but it still shows Valve didn't resolve the problem.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Some_Llama]

"This is a real problem, though it should be noted that this doesn't happen after a game is signed to play offline."

I'm sorry this got modded informative because it is not true, i have played pretty much all of my games in offline mode, but none of that is relevant if steam won't even start because it is asking you to authenticate.

this just happened to me last week.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644996 I am SomeLlama there too.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Anonymous Coward]

a free development kit. It's free, man. You get what you pay for.

Free isn't enough money from Valve for me to use it. Having to screw endlessly around with steam to play a SP game totally blows and makes people ahte your game, so Valve would have to pay me a considerable amount of money to allow them to say "Hey, look, this guy is using steam in his game too!"

Re:Insert steam hate

[Gideon Fubar]

damn.. i stand corrected.

I used to have this problem all the time too, but i haven't seen it in ages. I guess i shouldn't assume things are fixed just 'cos they don't affect me.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Travoltus]

Don't forget your tinfoil hat. If you want to volunteer your information and beg a corporation for permission to play a single player game, then you go ahead and do it.

You're what they call sheep. If you're lucky, they'll come shave you for wool.

Re:Insert steam hate

[agrapentin]

I dont have to beg. Because i understand the terms on which the game is sold. So i guess don't buy it, or just worry about Valve selling your name to the Russians.

Re:Insert steam hate

[Travoltus]

I dont have to beg. Because i understand the terms on which the game is sold.

So i guess don't buy it, or just worry about Valve selling your name to the Russians. You don't read very well. What I also previously said was, in due time, every game you get will require you do this, if Valve is successful enough with this.

And this will stop piracy how?

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems like Valve will be opening their game engines up for people to make their own content, bypassing valve directly.. Isn't this worse than piracy?

neet

[Anonymous Coward]

neeeeeeeeeeeet

Because Valve doesn't get pirated?

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of bs headline and summary is that? If even their invasive online DRM can be defeated, of what value could their dev kit possibly be towards fighting piracy?

Re:Because Valve doesn't get pirated?

[enderjsv]

I think he means that they are fighting piracy because they are supplying free tools to independent developers that will aide them in securing their source code. It is a little unclear, though.

Re:Because Valve doesn't get pirated?

[Brian Gordon]

Because valve is so ridiculously awesome.. they give away their whole SDK package for making Source games, which has given us tens of thousands of maps and some crazy fun mods like Insurgency and SourceForts. Now they're giving away the tools to not only produce the games, but also deliver them yourself without getting your profits sucked dry by a useless publisher. If you can still pirate games from a company as awesome as Valve, div by zero universe panic

Am I strange?

[cliffiecee]

I'm against the idea of buying anything on physical media, which I then have to validate/register/"complete the purchase" online.

However, I'm okay with the idea of downloading the very same software (validation being one of the requirements for downloading).

I guess I feel that the "buy then validate" model is a cheat- If I bought it in a store, that should be proof enough. Whereas with downloading, they can do the validation/purchase at the same time.

Re:Am I strange?

[Frenchy_2001]

The only reason I buy the Steam games off line is that you can very often find better prices in brick and mortar stores at release dates than on Steam. Once you have bought it, just input that same CD key in your steam account and never even touch the media.

Personally, I just go for the cheapest route when offered possibilities and the more possibilities (competition at retail and online), the cheaper it gets. Steam itself has sales regularly, with lots of titles discounted 10% to 50% or packs for reduced prices.

So, for me, the delivery is irrelevant. I must say that I do like Steam. Want to play one of your game while on vacation at a friend or at the family's house? just grab steam, put your password and choose your games. Reinstalling or switching PC? Just install Steam and all the rest will follow. If they just could implement a feature to sell back your games (transfer from account to account), it would be perfect (but I wont be holding my breath, resale is the worst enemy of game makers).

Re:Am I strange?

[Tacvek]

I'm against the idea of buying anything on physical media, which I then have to validate/register/"complete the purchase" online.

However, I'm okay with the idea of downloading the very same software (validation being one of the requirements for downloading).

I guess I feel that the "buy then validate" model is a cheat- If I bought it in a store, that should be proof enough. Whereas with downloading, they can do the validation/purchase at the same time.
No you are correct. Note that this whole kit is really a steam integration kit. So the primary purchase method will be online purchase. However, having a physical box sitting on the shelf at Walmart is still great for advertising, and even better for giving as a gift. What I find really weird, is that unlike with Valve's boxed games, the steamworks games will apparently not include the exe file on the CD. The CD will have all the resources, and everything, but the exe itself will need to be downloaded over Steam. The advantage (to the developer) is that the exe downloaded can be watermarked with the name and account information of the downloader, which makes distributing a no-steam crack for the game (which is necessary for widespread piracy) a risky proposition.

Re:Am I strange?

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam Activation is the reason I never purchased HL2. After buying HL1, Blue Shift and Opposing Force I felt that Valve had no right to treat me like a criminal for buying HL2. I had no desire to play any of the MP games valve had out and thus had no need to install Steam. I had tried Steam before and just wasn't impressed with it's UI and what it had to offer so I uninstalled it. I fail to see why I need to install an application to only use once. It's also easier for me to purchase games at a store than it is to wait for them to download from a Steam server. Perhaps if I could have validated a HL2 cd through a web page without the need to install Steam I would've actually bought the game. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but Valve lost out on $$$ from me.

Re:Am I strange?

[TeraCo]

You're looking at it backwards. Steam is the preferred delivery method, CD's where you then have to use steam to 'activate' are the halfassed hack they put together to let luddites buy it.

It's only a matter of time until you can only buy games on steam.

Re:Am I strange?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a luddite because I'd rather spend 20 minutes driving to the store, buying a cd, going home installing and playing it instead of waiting 20 hours for multiple GB of data to download because the only "high" speed connection I get is about 2 times faster than 56k or Valves servers get hammered and the connection gets disconnected, etc.

Distribution via CD has worked for years with very little problems. I realize it makes you feel like a unique snowflake to download games of the internet, I mean you'd never have to leave your mother basement except to run down to the unemployment office to get your check, or wait, they can mail those to you! You've got it made.

Re:Am I strange?

[TeraCo]

I'm a luddite because I'd rather spend 20 minutes driving to the store, buying a cd, going home installing and playing it instead of waiting 20 hours for multiple GB of data to download because the only "high" speed connection I get is about 2 times faster than 56k or Valves servers get hammered and the connection gets disconnected, etc.

Yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying. You might have noticed that your local EB doesn't have quite as many shelves dedicated to PC gaming as it used to. This is only going to get worse, and game devs are going to be forced to use some online distribution method.

Re:Am I strange?

[Nicolay77]

Nah, you're only a luddite if you see a basketball video game, and say: "fuck that, I'm playing outside".

Then you grab a ball and go and play outside.

I can't see how anybody can you be a luddite and play video games.

That said, when I hear luddite I often think about the 'Amish paradise' video clip.

Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. Steam doesn't prevent piracy; it's just a way for you to spend money on games you don't really own. I bought Day of Defeat and wanted to play it on my new (better) computer. Unfortunately, my serial number was already registered in their database, they didn't respond to e-mails, and the only solution left was either to buy another copy, or play only on my old computer. Well, fuck if I'm going to piss my money down that rathole again. Fool me once, shame on you ... fool ... not gonna get fooled again!

Oh yeah, and nice slashvertisement. Hope Valve paid you a lot of money for this blowjob Zonk.

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought Day of Defeat and wanted to play it on my new (better) computer. If you bought it new from a retail store, someone probably already opened it and just copied the CD key. If you wanted to play it on another computer that you have, you should have read the EULA. In either case you are SOL.

Re:Bullshit

[Frenchy_2001]

you will have to explain how you can play on one computer but not an the other one.
Steam is computer independent. You install it and you can play/install games when you enter your login. If you can login correctly on one computer, you should be able to install steam on the new computer and login on it too.

Of course, if you created a NEW login on the new computer, when you try to register the same serial on both account, it will fail...

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

You can play on different computers, but not at the same time. If you leave steam logged in on a running computer, you won't be able to log in on another one; which could be the source of GP's problems.

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably have an e-mail feature that filters out all e-mail from people too slow to understand how to use their software. I can sum up your post as "Durrrr, I no understand that if I create two account with same serial, I play two copies. If me only knew to log in under same account, I wouldn't be angry tool on Slashdot. Oh yeah, me hate Zonk because me think other think that cool."

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

No publisher can afford to avoid the stupid people -- there are too many of them.

Re:Bullshit

[Ailure]

Actually in that case you're just logged out on that other computer.

Had this happen once when I was out of boredom screwing around with Valve games on a (fairly dumb) lecture. It logged me out at home.

Finally!-GTA meets Myspace.

[Anonymous Coward]

"After all these years, my dreams of playing as a violent, gun-toting, car-stealing, cop-killing psycopath who uses MySpace to invite all his BFFs to his Sweet-16 party is coming true."

Oh I don't know. That actually would rock with GTA. Me and my hommies could come over and trash your place, steal your car, and date your sister.

Smart one

[obeythefist]

Because copy protection has never been broken before, making it free will mean that game copying will stop forever. Just like how DRM ceased all music and video copyright infringement.

Re:Smart one

[Anonymous Coward]

From what I've understood the steam copy protection, or at least some version of it, has already been cracked, and there are standalone game rips floating around that come with some kind of steam emulation - and thus don't even require the steam software. However, thanks to the CD-Key system this only works for single player games and for single player portions of games that have both single player and multiplayer.

For multiplayer functionality a valid CD-key is usually required, which - I believe - quite effectively prevents piracy. Sure, people can steal the keys or account information from each other, but there's generally no simple crack that can be applied to enable multiplayer gaming on the official and untouched game servers.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the CD-Key system for multiplayer gaming is the best copy protection ever, and the only one that actually more or less works?

Re:Smart one

[Moonpie Madness]

You're absolutely right.

Multiplayer gaming is an extremely important part of anti-piracy efforts, and more and more games are going to insert some kind of online component.

XBOX and PS3 games mimic the CD key, and for many games must routinely check with the central server to continue allowing play - for games with no online ocmponent more than a scoreboard.

It's pretty nice.

Warning:

[feepness]

Steam is great for first party Valve games and older games that have been out for awhile and had their issues sorted out.

It absolutely sucks for newer games which have their own copy protection schemes. See BioShock and Company Of Heroes: Opposing Fronts. I had trouble with Opposing Fronts and had to wait for a runaround before I got my money back, after which they said they would not do another. If you do a chargeback and they disable your account you will lose access to ALL your games.

I like Steam for Valve stuff... but just be careful with untested third party software. You can check there own forums on steampowered.com to see if people are having issues.

Re:Warning:

[Kenoli]

be careful with untested third party software

Pretty insightful if you ask me.

Re:Warning:

[DingerX]

They're giving away the tools for DRM, automatic updates, encrypted delivery (unlock at release date), voice comms, community access and server browsing. They are not giving away access to their network.

So, they're giving away the parts of their toolkit that would make all those 3d-party games not suck with Steam.

Re:Warning:

[Anonymous Coward]

indeed. the steam versions of gta seem to have quite a bit more stability issues than the retail+patch versions ever did...

Re:Warning:

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah yes, yet another reason that Steam sucks. And I might add, a borked first party title might be hard to return if they decree it so, as you might have your account locked, just one more way Steam can bully you into not exercising consumer rights you'd normally have. Actually, what really does Steam give you? There are already online distribution systems which lack DRM, so really Steam is just getting rid of the disc, and yet keeping many of the disc hassles, plus adding some new ones. See TotalGaming.net for a system that doesn't take your rights away.

Because Valve doesn't get "borrowed"?

[Anonymous Coward]

For those with a short memory. Valve has been pirated in the past and I've spotted non-steam versions of their games on the Internet. Which simply proves that piracy is one big lie and exists for ONE reason only. And it's NOT world peace.

Re:INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEFT IS KILLING PC GAMIN

[snowraver1]

So your telling me that the developers of CoD4 didn't think to validate the client keys agianst a database of valid keys, and flagging accounts that have multiple logins from different IPs? I refuse to believe that.

I don't know what do suggest the mods rate you... hmm. Not troll, (There really should be a -1 wrong), maybe overrated...

Re:INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEFT IS KILLING PC GAMIN

[Anonymous Coward]

-1 Automated Troll. I've seen the same post before.

Mod parent down please

[LingNoi]

How many times are you going to keep repeating this BS? It doesn't even make any sense seeming as when you play CoD4 Multiplayer they validate your key..

My only concern is...

[Joelfabulous]

There are some issues I have with the service, namely if it ever goes under (doesn't seem likely in the near future, but technology can be picky), what happens to all my purchases? (I only have currently one registered game on there but plan on picking up the Orange Box some time soon.) I don't know that Valve can just unlock the (already) sold products once and for all if they go under or if they'd have to keep running the authentication servers, etc. Also, I don't have any problems with the whole needing to update before I play thing as I've always lived near major metropolitan centres in Canada, but for those people without broadband... Well, I remember 28.8 baud and 56k connections... That can't be much fun. Oh, and you need an internet connection before you can actually run the game. For some people, I can see how that'd be a show stopper. You can't really buy a Steam game used, either. At least the prices are decently fair, particularly when bundled. I almost wonder if they bundle since it increases sales figures / helps them squeeze a few bucks more out of people since the bundles are a far better deal than buying things in singles... That said, it's nice to not have to search for no-cd patches or duplicate my existing copies by working around really crappy copy protection schemes just so I can ensure my legitimately bought and paid for game is still playable five years from now, accidents notwithstanding. It's nice to not have to keep track of CDs and stuff when moving, and that I can wipe it off my hard drive and install it from the net with no consequences. In my mind, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages by a long shot. If you're worried about Valve taking the information they can collect re: your anonymous system statistics or just making a cash grab and running for it, well, they haven't done so thus far, but they could... As it stands, it's a pretty solid service, and they have to pay for the bandwidth / server costs / uptime somehow.

Re:My only concern is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is 'plain old text' not the default?

Re:My only concern is...

[AngelofDeath-02]

You can burn your own backup copies of the games you have... These IIRC are installable in the event steam goes the way of the dodo.

Re:My only concern is...

[Jearil]

Well a few things...

Valve did state in an interview once that if they ever actually went under, before doing so they would make an update through steam that would permanently unlock all games so that steam validation isn't required to run them.

Also, you can set steam to "Offline Mode" to play your games without an internet connection. I've had to use that a few times myself on my laptop when traveling and also at a few LAN parties that didn't have net access.

Rural broadband?

[tepples]

Steam is the preferred delivery method, CD's where you then have to use steam to 'activate' are the halfassed hack they put together to let luddites buy it.

How much does a decent Internet connection cost in rural North America[1]? Or how much does real estate cost in areas of North America with cheap broadband?

[1] North America counts because Slashdot is in the United States.

Re:Rural broadband?

[TeraCo]

I'm not sure why you think I'd care about that.

Sure, DD sucks for people living in the country. But as a kid I lived in the country, and we went without a lot of other things that were much more important than broadband, such as a hospital within an hours drive. People who live in the country tend to be pragmatic and will most likely download a gigabyte of game over a dialup connection if there they want to play it and there is no other option available.

# of hours != Value

[MattW]

There are plenty of measurements beyond number of hours that are pertinent to game value. $20 for 2-3 hours of entertainment is not unreasonable if people enjoy it that much. (And compares favorably against plenty of choices for entertainment, from fine dining to sports games to concerts)

You forgot one

[Rob Simpson]

How about the right to be locked out of ALL of your Steam games if you dare to buy a game outside of your country?

Re:You forgot one

[Tacvek]

How about the right to be locked out of ALL of your Steam games if you dare to buy a game outside of your country? While I do recall some people getting locked out of all games for that, the article you linked only mentions getting locked out of the imported games. That article does not mention other games becoming disabled.

Re:You forgot one

[Rob Simpson]

Oh, right... It was just the guy that started swearing in a support ticket that had his account inactivated entirely. Though I can't seem to find the original post anymore, just references to it.

Exactly

[Rob Simpson]

Steam and similar DRM schemes are killing computer gaming for me. I refuse to buy any games that can't be run with a disk image or a crack, so I can play the games I've paid good money for when and where I want to play them. Morrowind and my Collector's Edition of Oblivion run without any hassles. Screw Valve.

Re:Exactly

[toddian]

It's called the pirate bay, it's not as though anybody's forcing you to pay for stuff.

Re:Exactly

[Talgrath]

Then buy a physical copy and quit complaining, dumbass; money talks and so long as physical copies sell well they will continue to exist. By the way, if you download from Steam, you CAN play your games when and where you want to so long as you have an internet connection; you install Steam, log on to your account and then download and install your games. Tada asshat! It's the magic of the series of tubes. What it really sounds like is you want to download a game from the internet without paying for it; or you want to just give the game to your buddies for free. And I'd submit that if that is the case, YOU are harming the PC industry by not paying them for the work they do; hell, if you're poor you could just wait until the game gets down to $20 or less and then purchase and play it. If you can't afford to slap down $20 on entertainment, then perhaps you should stop working at McDonald's as a fry cook despite the fact that you're 43 and living in your parents basement, and get a real job so you can make real money and afford video games.

Supporting Indie Developers

[kornkid606]

2 big thumbs up to Valve for helping support indie game developers. This could be a great first step toward breaking free of the fiercely Big-Money Publisher-Driven Development system that is PLAGUING independent games (and games in general.)

Is there any particular reason why you should...

[patio11]

... have that right? Aside from, "Well, it used to be that I got my media on a physical artifact, and we have always been able to sell physical artifacts."

From an econ view, if you're buying your game on a physical artifact, you're buying both the utility of the product with an implied option to sell. The option to sell costs you money -- this is precisely why a game you can finish in 8 hours on the XBox360/PS3/whatever (provide your favorite example, I don't own either system) costs $70 and a Portal, which is similarly disposable entertainment, costs $20. The imputed value of the option is what allows the publishers/retailers to continue bumping up the prices while allowing the games to provide less and less entertainment value -- resale rights are sort of artificial permanence for good which is being created for quick consumption.

I realize that many games sell the online and physical version at the same price. This is a factor of both a bit of a market failure (retailers use their lock on the sales channel to demand that no game is sold anywhere for less price, on penalty of being excluded from the channel that moves the most sales, for this and all your other games) and that there are a few not-quite-apples comparisons going on in the package value of each. (For me, downloadable versions are clearly superior in every way -- no trip to store, no CD to mislay, no difficulty porting "collection" just to pass CD checks, and no box to have to throw out.)

Re:INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEFT IS KILLING PC GAMIN

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed with 100% here, but this is slashdot. people here think they are born with the right to enjoy infinity wards work for fuck all. Its some kind of geek elitism that makes them think the rest of the unwashed peasantry will fund your games so that they get to slag them off whilst playing them for free.

The particular reason:

[remmelt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Any other questions?

The entire "it's a license, not a sale" is the software industry trying to weasel their way out of this principle.

Re:The particular reason:

[wolrahnaes]

The page you link to appears to say otherwise. The Adobe case listed shows that the EULA doesn't apply until you actually agree to it (presumably by installing it) but the next case after that seems to have the clear result that once you have entered in to the license agreement the publisher can limit your rights as outlined in the license.

Given that Steam (and pretty much every other online digital content store I've ever seen) requires you to agree to the EULA before you can even get an account, you can't claim any of the excuses you could against physical EULAs.

IANAL and such

Re:The particular reason:

[Scudsucker]

And they might have a case if you bought your game through Steam in the first place, but not if you bought the game in a store. A "license" you can only view after you've opened a box is worthless. Especially when the store refuses to accept a return on an opened item.

Evolved one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice in the same way that the increasing number of locks (both digital and analog) we put on our possessions shows how evolved as a species we've become.

It's a shame that "making a living" has been reduced to this but that's the future previous generations have bought with their greed.

Re:Evolved one?

[Moonpie Madness]

Yeah, it is nice in the same way.

Sad, but not surprising, that companies can assume their product will be stolen if they do not actively secure it. It's just 1s and 0s that need only be communicated in a world of amazing communication ability. Judging from my own experience of pirating when I was a kid, a lot of those with the interest but lack of resources in games are kids. How do you fight a kid who stole from you? He already played the game, so he can't give the stolen good back.

You can only build more and more locks. This online serial thing is a great lock that minimizes the harm to the legit consumers... in some ways actually benefits them (if I can download my stuff again without keeping a backup, that's cool).

You're right that this is about making a living. In today's tough world of software, it's obvious that some unknown number of folks lost their job due to piracy. You'll find people who claim it's not stealing, but those people are not good people.

So when I see effective, non idiotic DRM, I cheer that some company is going to maximize profits which will fuel jobs and new games and more investments. When I see stupid DRM, rootkits or lawsuits, I am disappointed that it's going to make it harder to build good DRM.

We pretend that this is a sign that human civilization has slid down the evolutionary scale, that we are revealing a worse greedier nature thane ver before. That untrue. We're just accepting a truth that has been ignored by some for a long time. And also, as humankind gets richer, the poorest and dumbest also are getting richer and have more access to things. We have the absolute dumbest jackasses in the US ont he internet. Dumb people who might steal or troll of whatever. It's actually a sign of progress that those who necessitate DRM are in access to technology. We have much more universal basic wealth in certain countries. Owning a PC and accessing video games is not an exclusive thing.

Re:INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEFT IS KILLING PC GAMIN

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a really a troll if he says the truth.

I have all of the orange box games, pirated.

I was playing TF2 yesterday, pirated, in a pirated server.

In fact I have only two legit games (Quake2 and Age of Empires).

Everything else is pirated. And I'm more a gamer than anything else.

And because TF2 I am considering paying for the orange box. My first legit game in ages.

I think the lack of something like steam is what made the growth of Console games and the decline of PC gaming a while ago.

And steam can make PC gaming rise again.

Well actually most games are published in PCs...

Then I mean the rise of PC gamers.

Yes, I want people to chat about TF2 instead of that motherfucking boring auto-aimer Halo.

DRM is DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

DRM is DRM. DRM is all about locking down what consumers do with their products.

Steam restricts/eliminates lending and resale.
Steam accounts get banned all the time, for little or no reason, with no recourse. ALL products on that account disappear.
Steam consolidates your products into one username/password -- lose it or get hacked, and you lose it ALL.
Steam forces you to go through their system and have it running all the time. If they chose to force you upgrade to a certain patch version, you would have to -- no longer sticking to your favorite version.
Steam pushes mods through it system, effectively acting as a de facto censor of content if they chose to.
Companies are known to go away, even large and seemingly impervious ones. What happens when your favorite Steam servers go offline for good?

Still requires internet activation

[Rob Simpson]

A physical copy is pointless if it still requires you to connect to Steam.

I still occasionally play games that I bought over a decade ago - including those from companies that are defunct. Good thing they never used DRM requiring a connection to their servers, eh?

You've got a neat imagination. Heck, I could afford to buy over a dozen copies of Orange Box every week, but that's not the point. I don't want to deal with any BS when I'm just trying to play some games and relax. This is why I've bought more games for my Wii than my PC in the last year. I'd buy a 360 and Orange Box, but I doubt that system would last a year before getting a RROD, let alone ten years...

Custom Maps...

[twistedsymphony]

Those are The only things I miss having given up PC gaming for the console world...

I'm probably dreaming if I think fan portal content will find it's way to the 360..

resonable price my ass

[Scudsucker]

They charge new game prices for expansion packs. That isn't reasonable, that's greed.