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FBI To Spend $1B Expanding Fingerprint Database
mytrip and other readers alerted us to news that the FBI is about to announce the awarding of a $1B, 10-year contract to expand its fingerprint database to incorporate other biometrics — palm prints, iris scans, scars, tattoos, possibly facial shape — "Whatever the biometric that comes down the road, we need to be able to plug that in and play," an FBI spokesman is quoted. Barry Steinhardt of the ACLU sounded the cautionary note: "This had started out being a program to track or identify criminals. Now we're talking about large swaths of the population — workers, volunteers in youth programs. Eventually, it's going to be everybody."
Why bother with scars and tattoos? What we really is a National Semen Database just in case the criminal ejaculates all over the scene of the crime. The FBI could even use sperm banks as a front!
A collection of fingerprints doesn't strike me as particularly valuable. Now if you had a collection of fingerprints associated with people's names, that would be something interesting. Even if you found a way to record the name of the last person who held a penny before it returned to the bank - what exactly is so interesting about supermarket cashiers?
Wouldn't it be easier to just tattoo everyone with a number? Then anyone who is caught doing something "wrong" can be incarcerating in reeducation camps? Wouldn't this be a lot easier to do than to try getting everyone's biometrics over a long course of time? I mean, didn't Hitler have the idea down right, although it started out with only one section of society, and not everyone?
Gotta compete with those Canadian spy coins.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Expect the entire database to be for sale world-wide in weeks.
And buy some EDS shares NOW.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Ya know, ya gotta love that loonie Canadian currency
Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
Hmmm - good point. Puts a new perspective on customerssuck.com ...
It'd help the FBI keep track of those illicit sex acts.
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
The FBI will be awarding the 10 year, 1 billion dollar contract in the next few days to one of the large system integrators: IBM, Lockheed or Northrop. But within the next 6 months the biometric portion will be awarded for running the fingerprint database. The favorite is Cogent Systems (COGT) a leader in the biometric space. They run the biometric database for the US_VISIT program and other large scale fingerprint biometric identification systems around the world. See video about them http://www.cogentsystems.com/video.asp
there was a Presidential Candidate willing to protect our privacy and civil liberties. Oh well... maybe 2012. Wait, what, there is? And you say he's attracted the largest grassroots campaign in the history of American politics? Damn.
If you've done nothing wrong ,you have nothing to fear. Just so long as they don't redifine what's wrong, with retro-active effect.
I will have a sig when the market demands it.
There are numerous way around these methods of identification:
palm prints - can be removed in an acid bath and can be faked with latex or surgical silicone. Even systems that incorporate a variation on live finger detection can be fooled.
iris scans - Can be changed through the use of contact lenses.
Scars - a difficult one, but plastic surgury, make-up and latex can make them vanish or even create temporary ones.
Tattoos - Laser surgury can remove them, they can also be altered beyond recognition by professionals.
Possibly facial shape - can be altered through a variety of techniques
Sure, it would identify the average US citizen, but it would be useless against organised crime and terrorism.
ALTER TABLE fingerprints ADD BLOB;
Yeah, also make sure you do not touch your tinfoil hat without wearing leather gloves, else they'll be reading your fingerprints off it using their invisible mind rays.
Shopworkers of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your change.
Few criminals leave their eyes at the scene of a crime. So, why are iris scans needed if you already have fingerprints?
I don't care what other people do peacefully. Our laws encourage illegal behavior, and we facilitate violence by patrolling non-violent and non-criminal offenses. It is our fault that we drive people to violent behavior in many, if not all cases. The idea that we can allow the government to track us by DNA, fingerprints, sperm count, whatever, is simply absurd. It is absolutely NONE OF THE FENDER GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS. The FBI does not deserve, nor warrant, any of this information from American citizens. In fact, we should slash their budget by at least 50% for at least 5-10 years to remind them who is in charge. Where do they get off thinking they can waste tax payer money on something so stupid?
We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Back to you with the weather, Bob!
Of course the other agenda they have been working on is to ensure that everyone has done something wrong. Let someone borrow a DVD? Watched a match in a church hall on a big screen? Sorted out a neighbour's computer, and his wife gives you some cakes in return ... and neither of you declare the payment in kind on your tax return.
They can always find some excuse to bring you in if they look hard enough.
It saddens me to hear that you are not using MindGuard. Using only a tinfoil hat does not offer full protection!
c++;
...not withstanding, let's look at this from a somewhat calmer perspective. If I'm accused of a crime I didn't commit, and the FBI etc. have access to extensive biometric data beyond mere fingerprints, that info will only solidify my defense all the more. No one set of identifying data is foolproof, but the more convergent sets you have, the greater the likelihood of making a confirming positive (or negative) identification.
Also, the more data investigators have available to compare to mine in my hypothetical example, the less likelihood I'll even have charges brought against me to begin with; they'll know it wasn't me even before it gets to that point, and I'm one more suspect scratched off their list. Frankly, the prospect of NOT having my name dragged through the mud in a jury trial to prove my innocence (which can itself easily ruin lives) is more important to me personally than being "invisible" to the FBI by not being in their database at all. YMMV of course, and reasonably so -- this is just my opinion on the matter.
Just hook up their database to all the CCTV/webcams people leave open/public/unsecured and run the two programs they came out with in the last year that can read fingerprints and irises from ~10 feet away. Patch in the program that they're working on that is supposed to detect abnormal behavior based on visual cues (they're still trying to come up with statistically significant values for the social norm ranges, but if betas are good enough for google, they're good enough for me!). Really fine tune that program so that it reads personal norms, not social norms. Shake hard twice, add three ice cubes and a orange slice, and you'll have a drink I like to call when paranoia and reality collide.
...can it be called SciFi if it isn't actually fictitious?
Just -1, Troll talking to another.
You were probably only considering conspiracy theory type malice. But what you really have to be afraid of, is your neighbour Frank, the cop, who is jealous of your wife and would like to have you out of the way.
Lots of governement employees will have access rights to such a huge database. Human nature tells us that some of them will abuse the system.
If this project goes as well for the FBI as its Virtual Case File program, which was only a small fraction of the cost of this monster even after all they money they spent trying to salvage it, I don't think we have much to worry about.
As much as we bemoan the devolution that's going on inside the government, it has the side benefit of keeping some of the things they're trying to do in check. Will Rogers and I are both glad we don't get all of the government we pay for.
That's $27 in decimal.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." -Pravin Lal
It's not about being invisible, it's about human nature.
The database will be -
1. Imperfect
2. Abused by government employees
3. Illegally accessed and sold on for profit
1 means you'd get your name dragged through the muck anyway and have LESS chance of getting off, even if you didn't commit the crime.
2 that some people will get stalked by crazy ex spouses/lovers/stalkers/whatever. There will also be cases of it facilitating some petty authoritarian's revenge schemes
3 is a big hello to massive identity theft.
Obviously they are paying based on the value of the service, and not the cost of the service. That is not a lot of work for 10B. @1 mb per person, my $200 500 gig hdd can hold approx 500,000 people. Setting up a DB is easy. Providing secure, encrypted, logged, monitored access is easy. Backing data up is easy.
They are probably paying a lot in the name of security, although I am sure we would never hear about any breaches even if they did happen, and of course, data like this usually gets stolen with the help of someone who already works there.
This is not a fucking game.
I think the spokesman has been reading too many Microsoft boxes. FBI:"If my USB drive is 'plug and play' why cant a thumbprint, or a tattoo, or a piece of ear. Heck they do it on CSI all the time!"
I'm all for catching bad guys, but "plug and play", you've got to be fucking kidding.
(tee hee I said but plug)
that they have had better luck with cameras than was thought possible.
Overall, a simple tattoo can be described. But if they are electing to keep the biometrics that they are keeping, it would say that they will be making heavier use of cameras. My guess is that we will see a new law proposed (and probably passed since the dems are as yellow-liver as the pubs are corrupt) that allows the feds access to ALL streaming camera (banks, grocery stores, streets, stop lights, toll bothes, etc) 100% of the time. Patriot allowed access only when chasing a terrorist, but this next bill will say that all businesses must give 100% access no matter what.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Absolutelly wonderful, this will work perfectly.
After all, Terrorists are well known for co-operating fully with the authorities in providing their biometric data.
Oh wait....
Sorry, been drinking too much and am far too upset about bipartisan, ignorant politics. I mean to say, "house and senate" not "congress and senate", since obviously the legislative branch (i.e. congress) is composed of both. I don't want people to run amok and assume I don't know the difference while I'm at least a semi-strict Constitutionalist. Microsoft Word doesn't even recognize "constitutionalist" as a word... hah!
We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Back to you with the weather, Bob!
I'm sorry, I thought it was funny when they beat the cheap fingerprint biometric. Yes they started small. But I'd like to see them get into some more hacking. They can do it on TV and get away with it. If I where to have shown my last boss how to beat it. I would have been fired (of course thats when I worked for government). Even at my current work, the mentality of the people over IT is such that they told me "Don't even touch how we do back up, it's whats supported!" I can't wait to send them an email showing their backup has not worked since June..
"I live in a country thats free. Free to be as stupid as you want!"
Sherm
congree? for fuck sucks and this laptop keyboard. nevermind. I'm just going to leave this thread and let your god damn statists battle it out.
THIS IS YOU, WHEN YOU VOTE MAINSTREAM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism
We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Back to you with the weather, Bob!
This will be of limited usefulness. Most people's fingerprints remain at a roughly constant size.
At the bottom of the
So they start up something like this, knowing the public doesn't want and can't really afford it, waste $1,000,000,000 USD, then when Obama/Hillary take over in 2009, they shut it down (well, Obama will anyway... Not 100% about Hillary), only to get accused of "wasting" $1B USD.
Yep you guessed it, the middle one !
Guns are for wimps... Use a crossbow.. this way you can pin them to their chair when you go postal.
The funny thing is: once you start treating people in a certain way, they tend to behave like that. Treat people as if they're inferior and some of them will start to believe it. Make people think that they'll be treated as criminals and don't be surprised if they start to behave as if they are criminals.
Make it look as if the law has no respect for them, and the population will have less respect for the law.
This sort of initiative sends completely the wrong message - it doesn't make everyone safer, it just makes a few people richer.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Our taxes are being spent so the government can spy on everyone in the United States online, on the telephone, now even through fingerprints! No wonder the United States is trillions of dollars in debt.
What about education? Public schools need that money, but the government would rather spend it paying the National Security Agency to read every single thing people write online, now even track us through fingerprints.
They think their protecting us and preventing "terrorism", but they're just depriving us of our civil liberties.
Declaring EVERY SINGLE person in the United States as a criminal is NOT the way to protect us! When will they learn? They wiretap telephones, but if someone really wanted to get around that, they could, so it's a waste of time...
If you are a war veteran, your fingerprints are in the FBI database already. They have more law abiding citizens already than they do criminals.
"There was a murder? Better check thos Army killers!"
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
I for one welcome our minority report overlords
I know the whole privacy trumpet is going to sound, but I don't really understand why this is too much of an issue. I'm sure someone will be kind enough to educate me, but these are just ways of identifying a person, nothing more. I can't see how this can be used invasivly. Any moreso than being placed in a police lineup. Especially, if it only includes the biometrics of criminals. Any thoughts?
Not government, humans. The problem is humans.
Humans will be responsible for how correct the data is.
Humans will be responsible for using the data responsibly.
Humans will be responsible for using the data honestly.
I don't think it's possible to work around that.
With the amount of power the database represents, and the already mentioned downsides, I don't trust ANY humans with that job.
To say Accenture is a corrupt criminal organization is a little out of line. They are a multi-billion dollar international consulting agency, not the mob or Yakuza (not to say they don't have connections, but then, when you're that big who doesn't). And I don't think Accenture has any part in the FBI biometric database.
Although I am always cynical about Wikipedia entries and who really edits them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accenture
Also, the US already fingerprints all incoming foreigners. Japan only adopted it recently because of US pressure. I am pretty sure the Japanese government follows the US constitution better than the US right now.
When I was in elementary school, the local police came to school one day to fingerprint all of us "in case we ever got kidnapped" (this would have been around 1984 or so - I remember the TV movie "Adam" had recently come out so parents were in an uproar about us getting abducted).
Not realizing how ridiculous this was at the time or the significance of it, I allowed myself to be inked and fingerprinted.
What are the odds that those fingerprints have made their way into the FBI database?
I bet I could get a much larger, completed database, for less then half of that...
Just put some homeland security squeeze on Disney, and offer them a pittance, and buy their database. Done. Largest fingerprint database in the world of public citizens and criminals.... Every walk of life loves Disney World...
Could I have my million dollar consulting fee now?
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
They've already started getting fingerprints on people that aren't just criminals. I was at sea world a year ago and they were doing hand scans of parents and their children before they got to go in. Since I was a Canadian citizen, I was exempt from being in their mass database, but it was still shocking.
"It is our fault that we drive people to violent behavior in many, if not all cases."
No, and it takes an especially disgusting individual to allow evil people a way to avoid responsibility for their actions.
I strongly suspect, based on your rant, that you are one of said "people" who feels you've been driven to act violently. Sadly for you, the rest of the world sees through the facade and sees you as the violent, poorly behaved coward you are, looking for excuses to avoid owning up to the violence you CHOOSE to engage in.
You couldn't be more wrong if it was your intent to do so.
"THIS IS YOU, WHEN YOU VOTE MAINSTREAM:"
Perhaps, but this is you, all the time.
http://www.mccdcares.com/Ryan_2005.jpg
A 34-year-old woman has been charged with using the Internet to try to get revenge on an old boyfriend by breaking up his marriage. ...Stofega ...created phony profiles of the former boyfriend's current wife on some adult Web sites... ...she did to it "to be vindictive, knowing that the profiles would create marital problems between" the victim and her husband... ...strange men started calling [the] woman's house over the summer, saying they had seen her profile on an adult Web site. ...the person behind the phony profiles of his wife was the woman he dated in 1999.
... admitted to intentionally creating the profiles in the victim's likeness on the adult Web sites.
Stofega
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/10/co-woman-charged-in-internet-revenge.html
OK, so how much is the FBI knowing your fingerprint, iris scan and DNA profile going to affect your privacy?
In what universe does knowledge of your biostatistical data impede on your freedom?
You DO NOT have the freedom to commit murder, arson or terrorism.
If you are not involved in something illegal, the FBI doesn't give a crap about you.
They aren't going to track your movement around the US with this info (that's what traffic cams are for). They aren't going to fingerprint that baggie you tossed that had your pot in it (it costs about $1000 to fully process a fingerprint).
So many have this idea that they are watching you. YOU AREN'T EVIL enough for the FBI to care!!!!
They are up to their elbows in REAL BAD GUYS and YOU DON'T MAKE THE CUT.
I imagine when the world is at peace and they run out of real bad guys, then you can be paranoid. But I do not see whirled peas (world peace) in my lifetime.
- I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
Currently a DNA database can only contain non-coding DNA. For 2 reasons :
A DNA/ID database is mainly used to distinguish between individuals. Thus one would prefer DNA sequence that vary a lot. Non-coding portion of the DNA may contain a lot more variations between individual.
A lab can give global information about the sample that are available without DNA analysis (male vs. female, human vs. other). A lab can analyse non-coding DNA for markers, which can subsequently be used to match other samples in a DB (marker x, y, z present, possible sibling of sample containing x, z and w). A lab CANNOT analyse for coding DNA (Suspect has blue eyes, is short, caucasian ethnic group, has a cardiac malformation and a slight probability for psychosis).
Of course, your government could end up changing its laws and make it mandatory to extract and store phenotypic information from coding genes. With the speed of computing power increase, by 50 years from now, it would probably be possible to have a database storing full genomes of individuals, with laws requiring that no consent is needed to extract that information and that any doctor refusing to collaborate on ethics and Hippocratic oath's ground will immediately lose his/her license.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Shouldn't that be "you have nothing to loose but your change"?
-- Flaw
Photographs are probably one of the most important types of biometric information used by the police, and I don't see any objections to this.
love is just extroverted narcissism
I know everyone thinks that DNA and Fingerprints=%100, but they do not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprint#Identification
"The flexibility of friction ridge skin means that no two finger or palm prints are ever exactly alike (never identical in every detail), even two impressions recorded immediately after each other. Fingerprint identification (also referred to as individualization) occurs when an expert (or an expert computer system operating under threshold scoring rules) determines that two friction ridge impressions originated from the same finger or palm (or toe, sole) to the exclusion of all others."
AND:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fingerprinting
.
"When evaluating a DNA match, the following questions should be asked:
* Could it be an accidental random match?
* If not, could the DNA sample have been planted?
* If not, did the accused leave the DNA sample at the exact time of the crime?
* If yes, does that mean that the accused is guilty of the crime?"
.
Also, keep in mind that a computer does not say "This is %100 percent match" (especially with finger prints).... People have to look at the results and determine that.
.
Computers are just used (generally) to narrow down the search of the most likely matches. If either were guarenteed, then we would not need a person to "verify it". Think about it...
.
P.S. I am not saying that DNA and/or Fingerprinting are not GREAT indicators.... I am just saying that we should not base "guilty or innocense" just on these two factors! Somehow, I suspect people will believe/tell you otherwise
Post Post Script: Too many of us watch CSI...
is that the FBI has a history of completely botching major systems upgrades (just like the IRS, the FAA, and a number of other big Federal organizations.)
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Stop voting for the same old demopublicans, people. It's really that easy.
Slashdotters quit your whining. We have 12-20 million illegal aliens in the US that law enforcement can't find. You seriously think a database is going to stop them? You're not as clever as an illegal alien? Shame on you then.
Kimberly Del Greco, the FBI's Biometric Services section chief, said adding to the database is "important to protect the borders to keep the terrorists out, protect our citizens, our neighbors, our children so they can have good jobs, and have a safe country to live in."
Yeah, sure. As long as the US borders are wide open this isn't likely to hamper terrorists. All they need is a ticket to Mexico City and three thousand bucks for a "coyote" to drop them off with the border crossers.
Quit your whining. You (and liberal hacks) call it profiling. I could also be called statistical probability. You know what attracts attention (though you can only guess at the reason) and yet you persist. So, until they haul your butt out of the car just let it go. Life is too short.