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111 Years Ago, Indiana Almost Legislated Pi

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "On February 5, 1897, 111 years ago today, the Indiana legislature very nearly passed a bill 'introducing a new mathematical truth,' that would have erroneously established pi as the ratio 'five-fourths to four' or 3.2. The story explaining the rationale behind the bill and how they were prevented from legislating it when a real mathematician intervened is quite interesting, because the man who discovered the 'new mathematical truth' wanted to charge royalties, which could have made pi the first form of irrational property."

42 of 379 comments (clear)

  1. Blashphemy ! by Ihlosi · · Score: 5, Funny
    How _could_ they even think about committing such an act. Everybody knows that pi = 3. It's in the Bible, after all.


    Then again, maybe I'll patent 22/7 as a good way to approximate pi. I heard that intellectual property is all the rage nowadays.

    1. Re:Blashphemy ! by notabaggins · · Score: 5, Funny

      Then again, maybe I'll patent 22/7 as a good way to approximate pi. I heard that intellectual property is all the rage nowadays. Hm... no, you need a process. Those are what all the cool corporations do. Patent the process of "dividing two, common whole numbers for the purpose of usefully approximating the ratio between the diameter and the circumference of a circle". Then make sure the steps described take up at least three pages. Oh and use a lot of impressive sounding words for things. Never say something like "pencil", say "graphite based, portable diagrammatic device rated at two on the graphite integrity scale". Things like that. The USPTO seems really impressed when they haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.
    2. Re:Blashphemy ! by rucs_hack · · Score: 4, Funny

      Only when your circles have six sides. (Hint: regular hexagons have a circumference/diameter ratio of exactly 3...)

      For this demonstration of extreme geek knowledge, you win the discussion thread.

      All you others can go home...

    3. Re:Blashphemy ! by Gandalf_Greyhame · · Score: 5, Funny

      Mathematician: Pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.
      Engineer: Pi is about 22/7.
      Physicist: Pi is 3.14159 plus or minus 0.000005
      Computer Programmer: Pi is 3.141592653589 in double precision.

      --
      I am not stubborn. I am right!
    4. Re:Blashphemy ! by Skater · · Score: 5, Funny

      Frink: Pi is exactly 3! ... Sorry it had to come to that.

    5. Re:Blashphemy ! by andrewbaldwin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Salesman: The nerds will tell you it's 3.14159... but, today only, I'll let you have it for only 3.1 :-)

      and the obligatory Simpsons quote (from the episode where Marge is arrested for shoplifting from the Kwik-E-Mart) "MMmmm Pie!"

    6. Re:Blashphemy ! by swillden · · Score: 3, Funny

      But then why state both the circumference and the diameter; one is redundant.

      Have you ever read the Old Testament? Redundancy was a poetic form.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    7. Re:Blashphemy ! by joss · · Score: 4, Funny

      wow, now next time i need pie to 7 significant figures, I only have to remember 6 numbers instead of 7

      --
      http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    8. Re:Blashphemy ! by Pieisexaclty3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey, that is my line!

    9. Re:Blashphemy ! by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 2, Funny

      And where does it say it was circular? "and it was round"
      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    10. Re:Blashphemy ! by sootman · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was trying to come up with a funny reply but the only number I stumbled upon that was more accurate was 31,415,926,536/10,000,000,000.

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      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    11. Re:Blashphemy ! by CreatureComfort · · Score: 5, Funny


      Yeah, but turning Pi upside down gets the floor messy.

      --
      "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
      Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
    12. Re:Blashphemy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      qaveh, adds a heh (h).
      ...
      an error of less than 15 thousandths of an inch!

      Good thing they didn't add a lol.

    13. Re:Blashphemy ! by 3.1415926535 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I object!

    14. Re:Blashphemy ! by agrippa_cash · · Score: 2, Funny

      Au contrair. You get 1, the irreducable minimum and 42, the answer to life, the universe and everything.

    15. Re:Blashphemy ! by Marvin01 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Every time I try to do that I always get 8.675309...

  2. Tabled in the Senate by Ignis+Flatus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Introduced by Record
    IN THE SENATE
    Read first time and referred to
    committee on Temperance, February 11th, 1897
    Reported favorable February 12th, 1897
    Read second time and indefinitely postponed February 12, 1897


    sounds to me like they just never got a Round Tuit

  3. In Kansas... by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 5, Funny

    There was an attempt to outlaw i and it's use in mathematical equations. Lawmakers who objected to its use complained that it wasn't real and their constituents required too much imagination to accept it.

    1. Re:In Kansas... by SlashWombat · · Score: 2, Funny

      This must be why engineers use "j" instead of "i" in their "figuring".

    2. Re:In Kansas... by mathnerd314 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You must mean "fjgurjng"

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
    3. Re:In Kansas... by clickety6 · · Score: 5, Funny

      if we're making bad puns, don't forget the story of Polly Nomial and Curly Pi

      Once upon a time pretty little Polly Nomial was strolling across a field of vectors when she came to the edge of a singularly large matrix.

      Now Polly was convergent and her mother had made it an absolute condition that she must never enter such an array without her brackets on. Poll however, who had changed her variables that morning and was feeling particularly badly behaved, ignored these conditions on the ground that they were unnecessary, and made her way amongst the complex elements.

      Rows and columns enveloped her on both sides. Tangents approached her surface; she became tensor and tensor. Quite suddenly two branches of a hyperbola touched her at a single point. She oscillated violently, lost all sense of directrix and went completely divergent. As she reached a turning point she tripped over a square root which was protruding from the erf and plunged headlong down a steep gradient. When she was differentiated once more she found herself alone, apparently in a non-Euclidian space.

      She was being watched however. That smooth operator, Curly Pi, was lurking inner product. As his eyes devoured her curvilinear co-ordinates, a singular expression crossed his face. Was she still convergent, he wondered. He decided to integrate at once.

      Hearing a vulgar fraction behind her, Polly turned round and saw Curly Pi approaching with his power series extrapolated. She could see at once by his degenerate conic and his dissipative terms that he was bent on no good.

      "Eureka" she gasped.

      "Ho Ho" he said, "what a symmetric little polynomial you are. I can see you're absolutely bubbling over with secs."

      "Oh Sir", she protested, "keep away from me, I haven't got my brackets on."

      "Calm yourself, my dear," said our suave operator, "your fears are purely imaginary."

      "i,i," she thought. "Perhaps he's homogeneous then."

      "What order are you," the brute demanded.

      "Seventeen", replied Polly.

      Curly leered. "I suppose you've never been operated on yet", he said.

      "Of course no," Polly exclaimed indignantly. "I'm absolutely convergent".

      "Come, come," said Curly, "lets off to a decimal place I know and I'll take you to the limit".

      "Never" gasped Polly.

      "EXCHLF" he swore, using the vilest oath he knew. His patience was gone. Coshing her over the coefficient with a log until she was powerless, Curly removed her discontinuities. He started at her significant places and began smoothing her points of inflection. Poor Polly, all was up. She felt his digit tending to her asymptotic limit. Her convergence was gone for ever.

      There was no mercy, for Curly was a Heavyside operator. He integrated by partial fractions. The complex beast even went all the way round and did a contour integration. What an indignity. To be multiply connected at her first integration. Curly went on operating until he was absolutely and completely orthogonal.

      When Polly got home that evening her mother noticed that she was truncated in several places. But it was too late to differentiate now. As the months went by, Polly increased monotonically. Finally, she generated a small but pathological function which left surds all over the place until she was driven to distraction.

      The moral of the story is this: If you want to keep your expressions convergent, never allow them a single degree of freedom.

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
  4. What's wrong with that? by QuickFox · · Score: 4, Funny

    would have erroneously established pi as the ratio 'five-fourths to four' or 3.2. What's wrong with that? It's fairly close to the truth, much closer than many of the current federal administration's views on reality. And far less disastrous.
    --
    Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
    1. Re:What's wrong with that? by QuickFox · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm sure every sane engineer would look at that 3.2 and decide that, for reasons related to what's practical and works well, the exact 3.20000000 can't be used with full precision, instead a rough approximation is needed, say 3.14159265 or thereabouts.

      --
      Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
    2. Re:What's wrong with that? by biased_estimator · · Score: 5, Funny

      And do you know what the really scary part is? I had an engineering buddy back in undergrad (at the University of Michigan, not exactly a terrible engin school) vociferously argue with me that pi was exactly 22/7. I asked him if he know what an irrational number is--he said yes. I asked him if he accepted that pi is an irrational number--he said yes. I asked him how pi could be exactly 22/7 if it is irrational... What an exhausting conversation that was. It turns out that pi wasn't the only irrational part of that conversation.

  5. Re:Hah. by mathnerd314 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "the American Mathematical Monthly, the leading exponent of mathematical thought in this country."

    Nice word choice

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
  6. no wonder you need so many lawyers by petes_PoV · · Score: 5, Funny
    ... if your laws contain text like this:

    "It is impossible to compute the area of a circle on the diameter as the linear unit without trespassing upon the area outside of the circle to the extent of including one-fifth more area than is contained within the circle's circumference, because the square on the diameter produces the side of a square which equals nine when the arc of ninety degrees equals eight."

    Not that other countrys' are any better, I suppose

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:no wonder you need so many lawyers by sinrakin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Reading the text of the law makes me think the author was the Time Cube guy of the nineteenth century.

  7. Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Anyone with education knows that Pi, the other irrational numbers, and most of Mathematics were invented either by Pagans, Muslim integrists or Communists. The bible speaks of 2 animals of each kind and division of children by two. No square roots, no integration.
    Is there any mention to that 3.1415926... thing in it? Yes. It's called Satan, and the scientists use it to justify silly THEORIES such as evolution, TOE and heliocentrism.
    If you want to be a good Christian, you must reject those diabolic numbers. You can keep using computers, as they abide by God's rules, but better make sure that you limit your programming to Integer BASIC and Assembly(avoiding the FP instructions).

  8. Just adding fuel to the fire ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 4, Funny
    I'm sure every sane engineer would look at that 3.2 and decide that, for reasons related to what's practical and works well, the exact 3.20000000 can't be used with full precision, instead a rough approximation is needed, say 3.14159265 or thereabouts.

    ... and not too long ago, there was an article about engineers supposedly having a terrorist mindset. I think we could add "Criminally adulterating the legislated value of pi" to the list of possible terrorist acts.

  9. Strictly speaking... by PinkyDead · · Score: 4, Funny

    This happened 111.19 years ago, you must remember to include the leap years.

    --
    Genesis 1:32 And God typed :wq!
  10. Re:You Americans ... by radja · · Score: 1, Funny

    it's been known for thousands of years that pi equals three. it says so in the bible, so it must be true.

    --

    No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
    --Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
  11. The new Pi by Grech · · Score: 2, Funny

    One can only assume the proposal was made by Bloody Stupid Johnson.

    --
    It may not be just, but it is fair, and that is more important.
    1. Re:The new Pi by ArcCoyote · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... who actually built a wheel with a circumference of 3*d, and therefore could have patented it. Only problem was, it tended to annihilate anything that got too close.

  12. old news by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Funny

    1897, c'mon slashdot this really is old news!

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  13. Speaking of irrationality by ultranova · · Score: 3, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, transcendental irrationality legislates you !

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  14. Re:The Slashdot headline in 2105 by rishistar · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hope we read this in about 100 years

    I hope so to. It'll mean we're not dead, and we've still got our eyesight.

    --
    Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
  15. Indiana by LaminatorX · · Score: 4, Funny

    Perhaps in another century or so they'll be able to decide on a time-zone.

  16. Re:Sig fig ambiguity by Sancho · · Score: 3, Funny

    The problem is that it's the same logic and methodology that lets fundamentalist Christians abuse gays and reject evolution. Take a portion of the Bible literally, throw out anything that contradicts it (for these purposes), and raise a stink.

    The Bible clearly shows the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is 3. Your talk of significant digits is just trying to draw worship away from God.

    I didn't come from no monkey.

  17. I'd like to file a motion by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd like to file a motion that we observe this 111th anniversary as the centennial. The number 100 is more convenient and aesthetically pleasing.

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  18. Slander! by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Funny

    Concerned readers of the rather lurid tale above may rest assured that its scandalous contents are entirely false.

    Mr. Pi is a well known and well respected number in the mathematical community, who despite its irrational tendencies, has won the hearts of all decent magnitudes with its transcendental nature. A nature one might add, which intrinsically prevents it from appearing at the roots of any finite order equation, let alone one of only seventeenth order.

    Mr. Pi is a good friend to many highly respected mathematical families such as the Trigonometric Functions and the Elliptic Functions. It is also known for its generous community work, appearing in many Geometrical texts and Physics equations, and in general is known far and wide for not holding itself above the common constant, despite its fame and status.

    Mr. Pi has been known for years as a wonderful role model and teacher for polynomials of a small degree, particularly for second order equations. It has opened up worlds of possibility and inspired these young equations for many years, and it would be a great shame if this false, cruel and libelous fiction caused an end to those efforts.

    I urge readers to reject and condemn this utterly false, malicious and libelous insult upon a good member of the mathematical community. We must not abandon the rigor and scruple that our community is renowned for, and succumb to emotive reasoning. The reader may be assured that however rational their coefficients, seventeenth order equations are known to come across irrational roots, of any multiplicity, all by themselves!

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  19. Irrational Property by tompaulco · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't mind giving ownership of Pi to some clever patent lawyer. But no sneaking using a mathematical symbol. We need to know the EXACT value they want to patent. So they would first have to write down ALL the digits before I would be willing to hand over the patent.
    In fact, I propose that we begin this process right now. Something as widely used as Pi is sure to bring in billions. We need to get ALL the lawyers busy writing down the digits of Pi immediately.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.