Will Wright's Spore To Release Sept. 7th

After several delays and much anticipation, Spore looks like it will finally be coming out this year. EA has announced a September 7th release date for the game. The only confirmed platforms so far are Windows PCs, Macintoshes, the Nintendo DS and various mobile phones. Wright wants the Wii, 360, and PS3 to have the game, but they're not firm 'yes'es yet. Newsweek's LevelUp blog is celebrating the announcement with a series of interviews. N'Gai Croal spoke to Will Wright, and the man himself tries to convince us why it's been worth the wait, and (oh yeah) why it has taken so long. Croal also sat down with the game's Executive Producer, Lucy Bradshaw, who explains how the game has settled onto other platforms like the DS and mobile phones.

Comments

Happy Darwin Day

[Plazmid]

Strange, they released the release date for an evolution game on Darwin Day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Day

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Catiline]

It would have been better if they had planned the release date for Darwin Day. I don't say that because it would mean I would already have the game, but that doesn't hurt either!

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[NC-17]

Don't give up hope - there's always next year!

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[_xeno_]

And if only they could find a reason to delay the release date until a year from today, they'd hit the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth!

Wait, no, bad, I don't want to give them an excuse to delay further...

Maybe they can delay the PS3 version until 2009. PS3 owners are used to getting late versions of games anyway.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[NC-17]

less creationism and more intelligent design. That all depends on those who play it...

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[SimHacker]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Intelligent Design IS Creationism, just renamed to fool people on purpose. I'm sorry you fell for the Dicovery Institute's trick. Read about the Wedge Strategy and the accidentally leaked Wedge Document.

-Don

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[fatalfury]

Fear not! There's always time for a rushed sequel.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[hansamurai]

Sorry, but I do not adhere to that notion. I believe in Creation but do not believe in Intelligent Design. I am able to see connections between macro-evolution and my theistic evolution beliefs and thus the theories Intelligent Design provides are not necessary to "fill in the gaps", so to say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution#Relationship_to_intelligent_design

You say I fell for Discovery Institute's trick, but it seems you are under the impression that anyone who believes that God is the Creator must also believe that He scattered dinosaurs fossils around and that the Earth is 6,000 years old.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[neveragain4181]

Perhaps the sequels will one day, through tiny changes of their launch dates, actually meet that exact Darwin Day date. I would then expect that the sequel that makes that date would then spawn the most sequels of its own.

If that sounds unlikely then you need to consider that the time to develop Spore is way beyond the scale of how humans can comprehend periods of time that long.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[danielk1982]

Actually, its more of a "Intelligent Design" game.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Amorymeltzer]

Intelligent Design is Creationism, but not all Creationism is Intelligent Design. As you pointed out, there is a very strong place for religion and God's work within evolution, seeing as evolution explains the how not why; SimHacker's logic was simply flawed.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Racemaniac]

what's your problem??
the joke obviously was that it would only be intelligent design if the player was intelligent.
it wasn't a stab at the creationist people

do you always go on a rant when people who believe in creationism might be insulted in some far fetched interpretation of a sentence?

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Burnhard]

I hate to engage in a debate on metaphysics (this is slashdot after all), but if you believe Theistic Evolution, then you have to define exactly what you mean by "God". Evolution does not require a director, unless that director is the environment and its interaction with genes. If you think it does, then you have profoundly misunderstood what the process of evolution is all about.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[MBraynard]

No, Intelligent Creation may be Creationism but not necessarily. Creationism is premised upon an omnipresent 'God.' ID can be premised upon that (though so can evolutionary theory), however it doesn't require it. For decades, humans have been practicing ID in laboratories, splicing genes and creating new variations of species in aggriculture and livestock.

The God-less ID theory is that the life on this planet originated in a similar way.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[tukkayoot]

there is a very strong place for religion and God's work within evolution, seeing as evolution explains the how not why

I often see this said, and I think I understand what is meant by it, but I don't think it's a very clear and accurate way of expressing that it is intended to. The theory of evolution does answer many questions about "why." To give just two examples: Why do human beings have two arms instead of one or four? Why do human parents seem predisposed towards loving their children? Those are questions that science can do a pretty good job of addressing.

What you really seem to be suggesting here is that science/evolution doesn't answer questions concerning the intent of intelligence(s) whose existence is purely speculative. If you ask "Why did humanity evolve?" by which you mean "What purpose and whose intent was served by the evolution of humanity?" then I will grant, that's a question that science/evolution is ill-suited to answer, because at the moment there is insufficient evidence to conclude the question's implied entity exists, let alone hypothesize as to that entity's psychological motives. However, that is a very specific and narrowly defined kind of "why" question.

The role of religion and other non scientific philosophies as they pertain to evolution is that they allow us to appreciate the knowledge the science offers us (that is, when religious and other such biases do not blind us to the knowledge gained by doing science). The "deficiency" of science is not well expressed by saying it can't answer "why," but rather by saying that it can't, by itself, assign moral or emotional value to anything.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[bataras]

>>>thus the theories Intelligent Design provides are not necessary to "fill in the gaps"

you're a god of the gaps adherent?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps#The_.22God-of-the-gaps_argument.22_in_modern_usage

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[kaizokuace]

I don't think that it's the job of science to explain why, just how. Why is for philosophers. Also, if it was God or any super natural being that created everything, I don't really care about the why, but I definitely what to know how.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Amorymeltzer]

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of religion. I think it doesn't belong but it certainly can be made to fit. The "Why" in these questions refers to the fact evolution has no purpose, it has no ultimate goal. It is a methodical process that happens. If you ask "Why humans have two arms" the answer is really the answer to "How did humans get two arms" - they way you're asking it, it's the same question. If religion can say to what purpose something was created, and evolution says why, then it works out.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Amorymeltzer]

I dunno about you, but I'd much rather know my purpose in life than how I evolved a four-chambered heart!

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Amorymeltzer]

I think you're mixing yourself up. Yes, scientists do intelligent design all the time, but Intelligent Design, with all caps, is a specific train of thought. It doesn't apply to anything humans do, it applies to some other-worldy being/thing cultivating life as we know it.

In this "God-less ID" theory of yours, what is the "other thing" that is creating life akin to the way scientists do? It wasn't evolution, according to that theory, and it wasn't man, so it must've been something else, some other designer.

I'd call that architect "God."

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[kaizokuace]

Yea well thats you. I already decided that it really doesn't matter if I know why I exist.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[mmyrfield]

You're asking if people on slashdot rant at any opportunity, even if it means completely ignoring that a joke was made in good humour?

You must be new here.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[7Prime]

The only difference, I guess, is that you could theoretically apply ID to alien's creating humans from test-tubes in a lab, instead of God. But, for 95% of people who believe in Intelligent Design, with maybe the exception of Tom Cruise, the "intelligence" refered to is God/Yahweh/Allah/Jahova/Brama/etc.

So while ID COULD, theoretically be different from creationism, in practice, it's simply a way of making creationism seem, somehow, accademic.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[arodland]

The God-less ID theory is that the life on this planet originated in a similar way. And how, precisely, did the smart (and missing) aliens with the great biotech come about? They must have been created too, ID "theory" clearly says so. So either they owe their existence to God, or you have infinite regress. (Or, if you ask me, God is nothing more than an excuse to dodge infinite regress arguments...)

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[SimHacker]

My logic isn't flawed, I'm simply reporting the flawed logic and lies that the Discovery Institute themselves perpetuate, but don't tell the general public. They were very upset that the Wedge Document leaked, but it tells it like it really is. The Discovery Institute says one thing in private to their superstitious religious whack-job supporters who believe in the fairy tale of Creationism, and they say something totally different in public. That IS their Wedge Strategy. That's just what the Wedge Document says. They are totally disingenuous liars. They know the Supreme Court struck down teaching Creationism in schools, so they're taking old books on Creationism, crossing out Creationism and writing in Intelligent Design, and doing a global replace of God with Designers. Well guess what: the courts resolutely struck down teaching Intelligent Design in schools, because it's exactly the same bullshit as Creationism.

The fact that you misunderstand Creationism and Intelligent Design enough to think they're different, or that you're gullible, superstitious, and don't believe in science that you believe in the Creationism fairy tale, doesn't change the hard cold facts of life or the laws of physics.

If you don't think those darn secular scientists are competent enough to know what they're talking about, and that the Pope understands science better, then why don't you give up using cell phones and computers and airplanes and electricity, and move to am Amish community?

-Don

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[SimHacker]

You can't fool all of the people all of the time, but apparently you're one of the people they can fool 100% of the time.

-Don

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[MBraynard]

what is the "other thing" that is creating life akin to the way scientists do?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Blublu]

This was modded as funny, but it is actually true. Spore seems to me to be more of an "creationism" game than an "evolution" game. If it was really an evolution game, the player wouldn't be able to do anything at all. It's okay though, because it would be really boring to have to run the game continuously for millions of years before seeing anything interesting.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[Doctor Faustus]

Evolution does not require a director... If you think it does, then you have profoundly misunderstood what the process of evolution is all about.
He or she could have just disagreed, not misunderstood. I think you'll find that most biologists or medical doctors who are religious believe something like directed evolution, and it's probably safe to say they understand the fundamentals of evolution.

Evolution is a complete theory without any sort of director, but if you believe in a higher power of any sort, it is perfectly plausible that that power is influencing what mutations arise and then leaving it to natural selection to sort out what works. Of course, if you believe in an omnipotent god, that doesn't really leave any room for natural selection or extinctions; a belief in omnipotence deserves ridicule, anyway, though.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[kindbud]

You say I fell for Discovery Institute's trick, but it seems you are under the impression that anyone who believes that God is the Creator must also believe that He scattered dinosaurs fossils around and that the Earth is 6,000 years old.

No one gives a shit what you believe about God and creation. That's totally beside the point. All we care about is whether you want to pass it off as science and have it taught in schools as science. If you're not into that, no one cares whether you've managed to suppress cognitive dissonance enough to accept science and superstition at the same time. Knock yourself out. Have a fulfilling life, or afterlife, or whatever.

Re:Happy Darwin Day

[dbIII]

Good point. Intelligent design is really an assertion that the Universe is too complex to attempt to understand so we should all give up trying to understand any of it. It's all too hard, the God ate my homework. People forget that a lot of this stuff orginally coming from cults is about political control and really has nothing to do with either religeon or science.

Darwin is really not the personification of the enemy for these people - it is Mendel. An educated member of the clergy (blasphemy for some of these groups!) who laid the groundwork for Darwin is the antitheseis of those that rejected an educated clergy and now reject education with evolution as the soft target.

The Soul of The Sims

[SimHacker]

The Soul of The Sims, by Will Wright
Macintosh HD:XmotiveHarness:src/Motive.c
Tuesday, January 28, 1997 / 9:25 AM

This is the prototype for the soul of The Sims, which Will Wright wrote on January 23, 1997.

I had just started working at the Maxis Core Technology Group on "Project X" aka "Dollhouse", and Will Wright brought this code in one morning, to demonstrate his design for the motives, feedback loop and failure conditions of the simulated people. While going through old papers, I ran across this print-out that I had saved, so I scanned it and cleaned the images up, and got permission from Will to publish it.

This code is a interesting example of game design, programming and prototyping techniques. The Sims code has certainly changed a lot since Will wrote this original prototype code. For example, there is no longer any "stress" motive. And the game doesn't store motives in global variables, of course.

My hope is that this code will give you a glimpse of how Will Wright designs games, and what was going on in his head at the time!

Read The Soul of The Sims code here...

-Don

Re:The Soul of The Sims

[The Friendly Strange]

Well, considering he had designing the game for more than a decade, I find that this code is still on the game. Albeit in a more simpler or complex way.

Re:The Soul of The Sims

[Solder Fumes]

I read through it, and I'm not sure that's actually for The Sims. With messages like "You smell very bad, it's time to take a bath" I think Will was simply encapsulating his own life in code.

Re:The Soul of The Sims

[Original Replica]

The idea for that game sounds interesting and slightly disturbing from a philosophical point of view. (At least my philosophical point of view) If you have a simulated person with a simulated soul, feeling simulated feelings, living the simulated life that you give them, then you are simulated god. That sounds great until you stop to consider if you then have moral obligations to your sims. That might sound ridiculous until you think about all the people in this world who ask questions like, "If there is a God why does he allow war, or disease, or evil tyrants, etc." But how often will people give their sims peaceful harmonious pain free lives? If someone torments their sim, because it makes the game much more interesting, how does that reflect upon them morally?

Re:The Soul of The Sims

[QuantumG]

Stress just got split into "comfort" and "room", the later of which always seemed kind of abstract to me.

Re:The Soul of The Sims

[fm6]

"Dollhouse" was a working title for The Sims, so that's what he's talking about. Thing is, I've never been all that impressed with the Sims autonomous behavior. Maybe I didn't train mine properly or something, but they can't even make it the bathroom in time without me reminding them. So it's hard for me to take all these "insights" seriously.

Re:The Soul of The Sims

[SimHacker]

You have just perfectly summarized the point of Stanislaw Lem's short story, "The Seventh Sally" in his excellent book "The Cyberiad" (also reprinted in DugHof's "The Mind's I"), which inspired SimCity.

From Wikipedia's SimCity article:

In addition, Wright also was inspired by reading , a short story by Stanislaw Lem, in which an engineer encounters a deposed tyrant, and creates a miniature city with artificial citizens for the tyrant to oppress. [1]

"And how do you know there aren't civilizations a hundred million times larger than our own? And if there were, would ours then be a model? And what importance do dimensions have anyway? In that box kingdom, doesn't a journey from the capital to one of the corners take months-for those inhabitants? And don't they suffer, don't they know the burden of labor, don't they die?"

"No, Trurl, a sufferer is not one who hands you his suffering, that you may touch it, weigh it, bite it like a coin; a sufferer is one who behaves like a sufferer!"

-Don

seven months out?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone else think its kind of strange that they're announcing the release date 7 months out? I seriously doubt the game is done with all the testing and balancing that needs to be done with it. It's almost like they're trying to slap a ship date on it regardless of whether it will actually be ready by then. Let's hope it's complete enough when it actually does ship. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Re:seven months out?

[totally bogus dude]

It's not that strange, if you define "strange" as meaning something similar to "unusual". It is a bit of a worry though -- my general impression of Spore has been of a "it's done when it's done" type of project, and aiming for an arbitrary release date seems contrary to that.

Still, I have hope. Even all those years ago when it was first demonstrated it appeared pretty gamey, even if the different phases weren't linked. And I've been seeing various hands-on previews that say the game is virtually complete. So it might be they've given themselves heaps of time for polishing (I imagine you could spend forever polishing this sort of game) but it's already pretty much done.

Here's a review from August 2007: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=82007

We're being shown a full build of Spore, and told that right now, "You can play through the entire game from the very beginning to the very end."

Re:Great...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I no longer use a PC" - What did you make your website with? A pencil and pad?

Double Feature

[DarthVain]

I heard they are going to package it together with Duke Nukem Forever! Hooray!

Bring on the vaporware!

Re:Double Feature

[TheSeer2]

Seriously, is there *any* real indication this was vaporware? Considering it was never truly 'delayed' since it never had a release date and they always said the games they showed were heavily scripted and planned... all this 'vaporware' bullshit is just baseless.

Re:Double Feature

[neumayr]

DNF never had a release date either...

Re:Double Feature

[vertigoCiel]

From the amount of times that Will Wright has demoed large portions of this game at various game conferences and other gatherings (just search for "spore" on Google Video, or check out the links on the Spore wikipedia article), I don't see how this can qualify as vaporware. DNF has only one (likely pre-rendered) trailer to show for all that development time, Spore has hours of demo videos.

From all the videos I've seen, it seems like the bulk of the game is finished, and the only tasks that remain are gameplay-tweaking, bug squashing, and cross-platform issues.

Sept 7th...

[Antho]

Will Wright's Spore To Release Sept. 7th ... 2026

Re:Great...

[ericdfields]

PC == the incorrect but general term applied to a Windows computer, as opposed to a Mac. "iTunes. Available for Mac or PC," for example. I see that spore IS coming out for Mac, but smeh... its still sunny outside in September.

Re:A game for Mac?

[xutopia]

Was it the egg or the chicken that came first?

Re:Great...

[syrinx]

"I no longer use a PC" - What did you make your website with? A pencil and pad?

Also known as Web 0.1...

Re:Great...

[hansamurai]

Ah, the game has been delayed less than a year (if Sept. 7 is the true date).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Spore#Release_date_delays

The first release period was announced to be January to March of 2008.

The game was originally shown at the Game Developers Conference in early 2005, but other than "we hope to get the game out soon" there was nothing solid until what was stated above.

Re:Great...

[flitty]

Can I say one minor thing slightly OT, I haven't seen the word Macintosh spelled out for probably 10 years, and it looks so strange.. Macintoshes *shudder*

Wii version has been announced, per TFA

[randyest]

Did the story submitter RTFA?

The summary:

The only confirmed platforms so far are Windows PCs, Macintoshes, the Nintendo DS and various mobile phones. Wright wants the Wii, 360, and PS3 to have the game, but they're not firm 'yes'es yet.

The article:

A Wii version has already been announced. What can you say about what that's going to play like in terms of structure, control, etc.?

I can't say much about it except the fact that the overriding kind of factor in my mind and Lucy [Bradshaw]'s, in terms of looking at what direction that team goes with it, has been to make really good use of the controller. What interests me about the Wii is that in some sense you have a much higher bandwith controller than you have with any other console or even a PC. How do we abstract the maximum Because one of the biggest advantages we have is our procedural animation system, which means that we can have an infinite of variety of animations that we can make the creature do because it's done procedurally. So that's a natural kind of strength of having a higher bandwith input device--it should really feel like I'm puppeteering this creature very directly, as opposed to I'm just indirectly controlling with a few buttons here and there. The rest of the design is totally going to evolve around that.

These are contradictory. I think I'll go with the story itself.

Also, something out on a cellphone before major consoles? That seems odd -- is it a first?

Re:Wii version has been announced, per TFA

[Xiaoxiaofreak2]

Which "FA" are you referencing? I spent a few minutes digging through the various links without finding your specific reference, though I'm fairly sure I had heard this before as well.

Mind providing us with a link to the sauce of your knowledge? Neither the joystiq article (what appears to be this post's primary source) nor the original press release say anything about this.

Re:Wii version has been announced, per TFA

[randyest]

This one, which is part 2 of the interview, and linked in the phrase "why it has taken so long" in the summary. It's the second question in the article.

Re:Wii version has been announced, per TFA

[Jaysyn]

The WIImote has a higher bandwidth than a Razer mouse? Is she sure about that? How the hell does that make for a better game anyhow?

Re:Wii version has been announced, per TFA

[Atzanteol]

Fail.

Re:Wii version has been announced, per TFA

[Jaysyn]

Hey, thanks for not being a prick like Atzanteol.

Re:Great...

[Guysmiley777]

Looking out my window, it's sunny outside in February.

DS but no PSP?

[Zutroi_Zatatakowsky]

How can they release something for the PS3 and DS but no mention of the PSP? Isn't the PSP much better than the DS, CPU-wise?

Re:DS but no PSP?

[MobyDisk]

Not out on PS2/PS3 either - might be more of a business issue than a technical issue

Re:DS but no PSP?

[Dorkmaster Flek]

The Jaguar was much better than the original PlayStation, CPU-wise. Which would you rather have?

Re:DS but no PSP?

[Koiu Lpoi]

Yes, but less-so, fun-wise. ;-)

Re:DS but no PSP?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

How can they release something for the PS3 and DS but no mention of the PSP? Isn't the PSP much better than the DS, CPU-wise? Yes, but not input-wise. Although if it's going to be out on the PS3 or XBOX 360, you've got a point.

I love Nintendo and really don't care for Sony, but I don't see what's so 'trollish' about this question.

Re:DS but no PSP?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

The Jaguar was much better than the original PlayStation, CPU-wise. Which would you rather have? Um, no it wasn't. Besides being two years older, that hardware team didn't have the foggiest clue how to do something like the PSX. A more apt example would have been the Sega Saturn.

Re:DS but no PSP?

[enderjsv]

Why was Zutroi marked troll? He got a good point (except that it is not confirmed for the PS3). The PSP is a more powerful system, so it seems like it would be a better choice to handle a game of this scope. However, I think the popularity of the DS and the additional control options of the DS are what won out in the end. Besides, the DS might not be as powerful as the PSP, but it's still a very capable system.

Re:DS but no PSP?

[Zutroi_Zatatakowsky]

Thanks for understanding my point.

Re:DS but no PSP?

[TheRaven64]

Two reasons I can think of. If the game interface works better with some kind of pointing device, a DS port would be easier - you'd just have to strip out visual effects until it ran, rather than completely redesign the UI. The other reason is market share. The DS is outselling the PSP somewhere between 5:1 and 10:1, depending on whom you ask. Since mobile gaming is typically regarded as a niche, the PSP would be a niche within a niche.

What's going on with the consoles?

[RetroRichie]

Isn't Spore DirectX-based? That should make the transition to the 360 trivial. Can't imagine why these platforms haven't jumped all over this... maybe this is anecdotal, but myself and many of my friends have resolved to quit gaming on the PC now that the consoles have more or less caught up. No reason to continue falling deeper into the gaming PC money pit.

Re:What's going on with the consoles?

[Dr. Eggman]

I assume the controls would present *some* challenge. A controller pad has a more limited controls than a PC; not to say it can't do it, just that it requires more than just a quick function mapping. A large portion of Spore is supposed to be about sharing just about everything, and I'm sure Live presents some challenges and requires a lot of interaction with Microsoft, atleast that's what other developers have said. Furthermore, DS and cellphone versions were said to be limited to a or a few certain "levels" (eg. space/microbial.)

On a side note, as a PC gamer, I still don't feel consoles are quite as good. I do own a Wii, as I feel it best compliments my PC. As for PC gaming being a money pit, I don't know if I can argue against it; consoles are just going to be cheaper because of the model they follow. Still, I prefer building my own PC. If the comment was in reference to the never ceasing harkening of the "death of PC gaming," I would submit that perhaps PC gaming is merely going in a different direction than the stats are looking for. For instance, Steam reached 13 million accounts (not users) in May, only to recently ascend to 15 million accounts. Increasingly popular games are becoming available via Steam as well; just recently the MMO Eve Online accounced it was coming to Steam. Despite a large and growing library of games, services like Steam, or Direct 2 Drive, or Gametap, tend to fall off the rader of PC stats accounting.

Re:What's going on with the consoles?

[Shados]

I'm not a main PC gamer personally, but to go with what you said, I feel Steam saved PC gaming for me. PCs were better at it in theory, but in practice, consoles had better games (in general, with notable exceptions, like many Blizzard games), just because of the marketshare and marketing... But with Steam comes a new factor: Impulse buy. I can go from wanting a game, to getting it, before I have time to doubt myself :)

Not sure if thats actually good or bad, but my childish self likes it.

Re:What's going on with the consoles?

[Aladrin]

Spore started as an experiment by Will Wright that later got folded back into the company. I'm sure they're all really leery of it still and don't want to invest in making this game for every processor known to man with some kind of proof that it'll actually sell. The Internet Hype Machine (tm) has managed to convince them it'll sell well enough to put it on a few of them, but it'll have to actually sell before they'll feel comfortable with more. Wright isn't God at the company, merely a very, very strong influence. It's quite obvious that if it were up to him, they'd have launched all the consoles with everything else all at once.

Re:What's going on with the consoles?

[RetroRichie]

I'm not saying PC gaming is dead. But I would submit to you if Microsoft (and maybe the other players) wanted to kill it by seriously marketing a wireless keyboard and mouse for their consoles, they probably more or less could. And I would say that the killer app for PC gaming is more or less dead--when was the last time you had to upgrade your machine just to play a game (Doom)? But still we keep dumping cash into our boxes just to get that frame rate improvement, and given that you can play Oblivion (for instance) on your 360 with virtually the same experience, I think the console is truly at the cusp of ridding us of the money pit problem altogether. PC gaming will still be around for games with low-resource requirements, but the console will likely dominate elsewhere.

So anyway, maybe it's anecdotal (or maybe I'm just another futurist tool), but my friends and I have already flipped that switch... and I think it will start to happen in droves soon. Especially with guys like us getting older, getting married, having kids, paying for college courses, and generally having to be more prudent in how we spend those entertainment funds. Not to mention the fact that kids these days are better at shooters on the console than they are with a mouse, which is truly mind boggling and probably indicative of how they will respond to the market going forward. We love our mice--they are pretty indifferent, at best. Seems to me that everything is reaching a critical mass.

Re:What's going on with the consoles?

[Dr. Eggman]

Having just rebuilt my PC this summer, for the recent Orange Box (which I hear had its problems on 360 and should not be talked about on the PS3), Crysis (PC only), as well as improving my development environment with a quad core, modern ram, and various other leaps, I can certainly say I feel I get a superior experience on my PC. I suppose genres that translate better on the PC (RTS, FPS, MMO) are shrinking a bit (as your FPS example may well illustrate,) but I would argue that a PC can offer advantages. Although it cost me a pretty penny (at $1300, not including perfectly good hardware I salvaged out of my previous rig,) my rig technically outperforms the PS3. It does not, mind you, outperform it theoretically (ie. merely in every instance of practice has it been compared) but I honor practice above theory anyways. Of course it outperforms the 360 in both theory and practice; though at that price, its not saying much against a console merely a year old.

As I see it, the real problem of the money pit is the long term. However, I think rather than see it as just a money pit, it is part of an opposed point of view. As you point out, in attempting to keep ahead of the consoles (possible, though it is,) the PC becomes a money pit with cost far outweighing the benefits. I don't try to keep up with the consoles; I'm not as big on the best of the best possible graphics or framerates. Instead, I build an advanced PC about half-way in between each console cyle, saving costs by building it myself, careful shopping, and reusing as many pieces as possible. Normally, this means I pay for a nice graphics card for around $300. Every once in a while (as was the case this time) advancement ceases to be a possiblity with a current rig and so I go out and try to build a highly advanced PC (trying to stay under $1500.) Before this once, I had an AMD Socket A cpu with a fsb of 133 MHz! So I don't plan on another upgrade (video card, or perhaps the way things are going, CPU) until 2012 or so. True, it is the more expensive route, but between its dual use (software development) and of course the sheer fun of building/rebuilding the thing I feel its worth it. Of course, not everyone's in this position, so perhaps consoles will be dominate with the majority of people, but I do not think all but low-requirement content will exists soley on the consoles, either.

Dupe.

[SanityInAnarchy]

Dupe.

Also, if you have the capability to track who is using a pirated copy, you have the capability to ban them from your systems, right? If it's a more decentralized model, and you can't stop them, then you don't really have the capability to track them. QED.

Will Wright's Spore To Release Sept. 7th

[CopaceticOpus]

...so wear a raincoat?

Re:Will Wright's Spore To Release Sept. 7th

[SnappyCrunch]

Will Wright! Please pee on us!

Underwater stage? Flying critters? Length?

[_KiTA_]

So, any news on the following?

* The so called "Underwater stage"? Supposedly this was cut in lieu of your creature moving from cell to the beach...
* Flying critters, or otherwise critters with wings?
* The length of each stage? In the latest interview he talks about difficulty levels and how that will affect it, so... How long will it take each stage on the average difficulty?

Re:Great...

[Chris Burke]

Sorry EA/Maxis. You missed your opportunity with me. I'm sure its a wonderful product but lets be honest with our release dates from now on.

Okay... And how exactly would honesty -- meaning they had initially told you that Spore would be out in Sept 08 -- have changed your computer-using situation in any way?

A long wait, but...

[elysiana]

So we've got those who complain about companies releasing a product before it's ready, and then we've got those who complain that a product is taking too long to come out. I'd like to think that Spore is one of those games that's going to have playability over a large range of ages - you're not going to outgrow it. Sure, we're not getting any younger, but you gotta admit you still wanna have a crack at it, and you still will when it's finally released.

Has it taken a long time from concept to completion? Yeah, that's a pitfall they've encountered. Maybe their timing is good, though - the MMO world has calmed down a bit, the Wii isn't as brand-spanking-new, people have done Bioshock... now there's something new to anticipate and it's not competing against the "biggies" we've had lately. Granted, in the months to come we may find that new hardware and games are going to challenge it. But think of it this way - it's certainly piqued your interest, right? Controversy means people will take a look at it, just to find out what the fuss is about.

If the game is good enough, it doesn't matter when it's released - it's not going to miss the boat because it's not trying to ride a fad. In the meantime, we can still play the games we've been playing. No need to hop from one game to the next constantly, just sit back and enjoy what you're playing... when Spore comes out, you'll be ready for it, and maybe you can take the time to play it out and appreciate what it is, rather than whipping through and waiting for the next late-release game.

Re:A long wait, but...

[Amorymeltzer]

I don't mind waiting for Spore; to be honest, we should be forced to wait more for games, or really any product. As far as I see it, every day we wait, the game becomes slightly better. Yeah, they could probably rush it out by May or June but who cares? It'd be a much sleeker, smoother product by September. I'm more than willing to sit back and wait for something awesome if it's actually going to be awesome. Rushing never helped anything.

Oh, and FYI, this doesn't mean DNF will be the best game ever.

Re:A long wait, but...

[Sangui]

I'd like to see what Superman 64 would have been had it not been delayed.

Re:A game for Mac?

[shinma]

Which might be funny if the mouse that came with macs now didn't have four buttons.

Re:Yawn

[Pojut]

Other than so-called Madden Gamers and Halo-fiends, nearly every gamer is looking forward to this. How do I know this?

Because unlike some other developers, when Will Wright says he is implementing some crazy idea into a game, he actually implements it and implements it well. Not to suck the man's pecker, but the possibilities of a game like Spore are quite beyond anything previuosly conceived in the interactive entertainment world. Just read through interviews with him about it, or better yet just read through the Wikipedia article about it. I don't mean skim over it, I mean sit down and truly read it and absorb everything that this game is aspiring to do (and, based on what Will Wright is saying, is doing successfully.)

When you look at what he is hoping to accomplish in this game, and what he is saying is already there and in somewhat playable form... itwould have been impossible even just a decade ago. His early description of it by calling it "Sim Everything" seems like it will be an accurate label.

Lastly, keep in mind that the ONLY thing that we have any sort of details about are when you are still in the cell-sized areas of the game. If they are putting this much detail into what is happening when you are the size of an amoeba, imagine what the rest of it could possbily be like...

I know I sound like some sniviling Will Wright fanboy who wants anything the man releases, but again...go and really read about what this game is trying to accomplish. It's mind boggling.

Re:Need Star Wars Version

[trongey]

I'd love to see a Star Wars MMOG where you could slip in and out of perspectives (with some load time of course). Imagine flying as an individual tie fighter, X-Wing, gunner on a battle ship, etc. (with other players or AI). Meanwhile, other players could be controlling the sides of the battle from a Homeworld-type perspective. Above them could be other players who are controlling things at a higher "Master of Orion"-perspective. This way, communication could be facilitated between players on the same team throughout these different perspectives. So, basically, you want a MMOG that plays like Battlestations: Midway - except maybe with one more layer of abstraction.

Re:Yawn

[spun]

No, you're playing "Troll the Slashdot Geeks." And winning handily, I might add.

Re:Great...

[vertinox]

I no longer use a PC, and I'm no longer in college. Most of my free time is spent away from the computer, doing errands (food, misc. real life stuff), or spending time with my wonderful girlfriend.

For some reason I suspect you drink a lot, take zoloft, or do you just enjoy the beatings your girlfriend gives when you ask if you can hang out with your friends after work?

But seriously, I don't know about you but I'm in my 30s and if my girlfriend doesn't at least tolerate my gaming and activities then she won't be for long. Luckily, the one I got loves her DS way more than I love mine. (I'm more of a computer FPS person)

Truth is... If you date someone for looks rather than interests, they are going to get on your skin real fast once they get old.

Blue Balls

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> Will Wright's Spore To Release Sept. 7th

If he waits that long, he's going to have a hell of a case of blue balls.

Re:A game for Mac?

[doggo]

*Nelson Muntz impersonation* HA HA! Hey cthulu, behind the times much?

Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[HomerJ]

This game has been marketed to death as some Will Wright masterpiece. What exactly has Will Wright done other than an early 80's game about building a city, and a game who's main purpose is to wash dishes and trap people in a pool?

I'm not saying Spore will be good or bad, but I'm not buying a game who's sole reason for hype is a guy who's managed to make two franchises and milk them to death in a way that makes Nintendo jealous.

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[Jaysyn]

This little game called "The SIMS"? Maybe you've heard of it? Best selling PC game / series of all time?

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[justinlee37]

and a game who's main purpose is to wash dishes and trap people in a pool?

He was talking about The Sims here. Of course, only utter failures at the game would spend time washing dishes. It's much better to give someone the grilled cheese aspiration, farm aspiration points by having a housemate eat their sandwiches, and then spend the hundreds of thousands of aspiration points you get on energizers, so you never have to have your sim do anything but work and then recharge.

Snapdragons and Servos are pretty sweet with this strategy as well.

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[Anonymous Coward]

You can trivialize anyone's accomplishments with that attitude. Examples:

What exactly did Einstein ever do aside from work in a patent office and publish a few papers?

What exactly did Linus Torvalds ever do aside from start a UNIXoid kernel?

What exactly did Andrew Wiles ever do aside from proving some dead guy's really old theorem?

Of course past performance never proves future returns, but by trivializing Sim City and The Sims you just make yourself look silly.

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[Talgrath]

Perhaps I can restate the gp's gripe in a more constructive and clear manner:
"I didn't enjoy Will Wright's previous game series, and I found the number of expansion packs for each series to be repetitive and/or redundant. I'm sick of hearing about Spore, people have been hyping it more than the second coming of Jesus Christ(Christians) and/or The Purple Lizard God (Mormons)."

To be honest, I tend to agree, this game has been talked about to death; it looks mildly interesting to me, but not that great as a game. There is, however, great potential (I think) when looking at the creature creation process to apply this dynamic creation to other games (imagine building your own gun on the fly, in an FPS game, for example).

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[addie]

What exactly has Will Wright done other than an early 80's game about building a city, and a game who's main purpose is to wash dishes and trap people in a pool?

I think the point is that Will Wright created the definitive game about building a city, and the definitive game about people washing dishes. There are other city building games, and other games where you push around people and see what they do, but none are as good as the simple and elegant creations that Will Wright has come up with. Following that logic, it's a pretty good bet that Spore will be one of the best (if not the best) game about creature evolution. I wouldn't call it hype; people love Simcity because it's just a damn good game.

It's like a new Zelda or Mario game coming out. There's no guarantee it'll be the best in its class, but I'd put money on it every time.

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[kamapuaa]

Did you ever play SimEarth, SimLife, or SimZoo? They really sucked. This is his fourth try at the same basic idea, and it's hard to believe this one will be any better, much less take it for granted it will be some kind of classic. This is a game developer who's made a couple classics, but the large majority of his releases are either instantly forgettable, or add-on packs. All the hype over a collection of mini-games seems out of place.

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[smurgy]

It's not as if there has been no other discussion of the game. I think you have to realise that developer hype exists because it will (along with previews, demos etc.) help the product gain a larger market share on release, and therefore a larger pool to develop the essential word of mouth.

Will Wright developed a genre defining game in the 80s, and another one (whether you or I personally like it) in 2000. It might not stimulate your interest but it will plenty of others. You don't think his career is worthy of hype? How many household-name games have you developed in your life? In essence to answer your question:

Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

I have to say... tell me why Will Wright needs to care about your dollar.

NB not a fanboy here... both Sims and Sim City leave me cold... but as someone who'd at least demo anything put out by Blizzard or Rockstar I can understand who Will Wright devotees would be grooving right along with the hype here.

Re:Tell me why I should care about WW's "Spore"

[paganizer]

I liked SimEarth. and SimLife was interesting. They were both games that suffered from, IMO, insufficiently advanced standard PC's; SimEarth would be pretty cool on a modern system with modern graphics, and SimLife... well, it wouldn't have become spore, but I could see it becoming a pretty cool game.
SimAnt was just too confusing, but I could see it being a decent RTS.

Doesn't this qualify as a good year or bad year...

[edwardpickman]

It's amazing how many things that have been considered vaporware for so many years are coming it this year. Obviously most have still not sent he light of day but we are starting to get release dates. I always thought Spore would come out in the next 12 months but a few old friends like Duke Nuke Em Forever will have a bitter sweet edge to it. There needs to be a little mourning for some of the more long lived bits of vaporware. I just hope they both live up to expectation so it can be a positive thing them being released and not just a let's get it over with and get on with our lives event.

Re:Yawn

[Digi-John]

Will: So this is my new game, Pee. Basically I'm going to pee on every one of you, and you're going to love every second of it. That's my design. And you decide what you want to do with the pee. We're not telling you how to enjoy it. I leave that up to you guys. You're going to create your own unique experiences with my pee. You're all going to do something different. How will you react to that? This guy, he might get some pee in his eye. That's completely different from pee in your hair, and that's exciting to me as a game designer.
Fans: Will Wright! Please pee on us!

Penny Arcade, of course.

Re:Great...

[Ant P.]

uh... what? Sounds like your own life of abuse makes you automatically associate someone having a SO and not playing games with "abusive girlfriend".
You should get that problem seen to.

Re:Yawn

[Pojut]

Some of the funniest guys out on the 'net, they are :-)

Re:Great...

[ivan256]

It seems like the project took an average amount of time, and they just turned on the hype engine way too soon.

Game makers should learn that the longer the period of hype, the higher the expectations. Let's hope, for the developer's sake, that this game is really extraordinary, because after all the hype, "good", or even "great" won't be good enough.

Re:Great...

[Timberwolf0122]

I don't use a PC to make websites, I use the butterflies

Re:Relationship advice on slashdot

[quintessentialk]

I can't believe I'm seeing what is essentially relationship advice on slashdot.

Re:A game for Mac?

[Sangui]

Well coded game that doesn't rely on Win32 system calls, and a graphics engine that is easily flipped between OpenGL and DirectX.

Re:Doesn't this qualify as a good year or bad year

[justinlee37]

Don't forget about Fallout 3!

Re:Great...

[vertinox]

Sounds like your own life of abuse makes you automatically associate someone having a SO and not playing games with "abusive girlfriend". You should get that problem seen to.

No. I'm fine... Its just that I've had many friends over the years simply loose themselves because they were in a relationship that was unhealthy for them, stopped doing the things they once enjoyed, and now are miserable.

If your the situation with your SO isn't giving you time to do things that you like (such as play computer games like Spore or even watch football with the guys) then you'll probaly start to resent them even if they aren't actively forcing you to not do those things.

What I think I'm saying is that having a life is no excuse for not doing the things you really like. On the flip side, there are people I know who work so much that they have neither time for a SO or games and are pretty miserable too.

Personally, a relationship cannot simply be about the fact you just be someone that happens to be of opposite sex, but rather you need to share some interests. If you don't play video games anymore... Fine! But don't tell people that it is because you are in a relationship, have kids, work 40 hours, and are too busy!

There are plenty of people who do all of the above and still find time to play games for their personal enjoyment.

Re:Big Deal

[Pojut]

If you are releasing spore through your genitals...well...let's just say you need to get that checked out.

Re:Yawn

[brkello]

I'd rather just wait and see what the game is like before judging it based on what he is saying. Sure, some people are more credible than others, and I have no doubt I will buy the game...but getting all ramped up over hype is a guaranteed way to get disappointed even if the game is great.

Re:A game for Mac?

[Random Destruction]

No clicky rolly thing? I was with you until that point. The mouse wheel, imo, is the most important computer HID developments in ages. But only one dimension of roll, please.

Though from what I've seen of rio, you have to have some pretty weird ideas of how a computer should behave to get used to it. It simply drove me mad.

Re:Great...

[Jarjarthejedi]

Probably, though I've never understood that convention. Given that PC stands for personal computer, and Macs are personal computers, would that not imply that both the Mac and PC guys are PC guys? (Well, unless that conspiracy theory about macs being group computers is right...dun dun dun!)

Re:Need Star Wars Version

[ShadowMarth]

I've considered such a thing as well. Kind of like a combination of Empire at War and Battlefront. Both good games. Ever tried Savage? It does some aspects of this idea quite well.

Re:Need Star Wars Version

[mithro]

What about Eve Online? http://www.eve-online.com/ That is getting closer to your description above.

Re:Yawn

[Blakey Rat]

I'm not. The package says "EA" on the side, so no thanks. I've suffered through enough buggy, crappy EA games to last a lifetime, I don't care which famous designer is behind it.

Re:Great...

[WMD_88]

Some IT consulting firm in the Naples/Ft. Myers, FL area was airing TV commercials a while back, and the guy used the word "Macintoshes." Quite weird indeed.

The real reason why it took so long:

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

"I'm Will Wright, bitch!"

Re:Doesn't this qualify as a good year or bad year

[WK2]

Wow. Apparently you didn't get the memo. Vaporware is always "going to be released soon." It is the second requirement of vaporware.

Re:I remember

[Qetu]

Black & White = Peter Molineux. Also promised lots on Fable, and didn't deliver. His early games (Populus, Dungeon Keeper, Magic Carpet) were really fresh, and some were funny. For me, he peaked at Dungeon Keeper.

Spore = Will Wright. Sim series (Sim City, The Sims are the two better known games). All games are attempts at simulation with quirky humor. I have a fondness on Sim City 3000.

Re:Yawn

[Pojut]

While I agree with you about EA, from what I understood when the purchase was made Maxis is more or less free to do their own thing.

Re:Great...

[ericdfields]

I enjoy everything I choose to do with my life, my girlfriend, and my friends. I work a lot, but its very rewarding. I spend the time I spend with my girlfriend because I want to. I spend the time I spend with friends because I want to. Thank you.

To get back on topic, I will not be playing Spore because, per initial post, my interest in it has waned after three years. Other, more (personally) interesting activities have come up. On top of that, the delayed released dates -- even if they were maybies -- just further buried my interest in the game. I'm not insulting anybody.

@Ant P. I don't drink heavily on a regular basis or take zoloft on a regular basis. Read the threads before posting, please.

but will it be good?

[sentientbrendan]

What I fear is that spore will end up like black and white, which is to say they will try to turn it into a game.

Most simulation games are fun because they basically let you play god. The world is your sandbox and you can do pretty much anything you want.

Black and white had this, and had a pretty cool sandbox, with people you could pickup and throw around, and a semi intelligent animal you could train to do tricks. Then they added the "game" elements.

First, they intentionally made the interface hard to use so that it would be "challenging" to learn how to use it. Everything was done with a series of mouse gestures that rarely worked. The "game" was figuring out how to do the mouse gestures well.

Second, they made you build your own cities house by house with a frustrating interface. The game offered to let you play god, but for some reason your tribe of people expected their god to construct their houses for them?

Finally, while the game was "black and white" and advertised the ability to be good or evil, the game largely punished you if you were evil. The world and all the creatures in it started to look ugly, and your society would start to fall apart in many ways. Also, numerous highly annoying mini games were designed to punish you for evil and reward you for good.

What I fear, is that similar unfun tasks will be inserted into spore. I fear that much of the game will be spent micromanaging your creature, or in other boring tasks, like designing your city.

Re:but will it be good?

[vandoravp]

Fortunately, Will Wright's attitude with Spore, and every other game he has done, seems to be that he is creating a "toy" and not a game. Combined with the emphasis/reliance on procedural content, as well as the "pollenator" content sharing, it is looking like it will be easier than ever to focus exactly on what interests you while the game fleshes out the experience. Hopefully this is actually the case.

Re:A game for Mac?

[jacksonj04]

The 2D roll would be amazing... if it didn't need cleaning every 2 or 3 days to track properly. I do a lot of big zoom stuff and it's nice to pan around with. I'll admit to being a heavy user though, so ymmv.

As for the grandparent's point about chorded clicks... please Apple, I'm willing to put up with a thin 'crack' between the left and right buttons. Perhaps this'll stop the damn thing reading right clicks as left as well. It looks lovely, but my Microsoft Bluetooth gear is far more practical.

Re:PIRACY IS KILLING PC GAMING

[Sangui]

I know someone who has two legit versions of Photoshop. She bought CS around when CS2 came out, and used it up until a few months ago when she bought a new Mac Pro and bought CS3 so she wouldn't have to keep using CS virtualized.

Can't wait to play it online.

[k3ith]

Oh wait, I won't buy an EA game until they fix their servers. I just got finished with a round of disconnects with Battlefield II. What fun!

Re:Underwater stage? Flying critters? Length?

[RobinH]

* The so called "Underwater stage"? Supposedly this was cut in lieu of your creature moving from cell to the beach...
* Flying critters, or otherwise critters with wings?

This is Will Wright we're talking about. These kinds of things will be reserved for expansion packs. You didn't think he was going to sell the you *whole* game for that price, did you? :)

Spoor

[SimHacker]

I think he meant he released spoor (poopy, #2, doodoo, etc), not spore. I have bad news for you: that's NOT the same as getting laid.

-Don

Re:Spoor

[laederkeps]

After a cavity search

Did I just score?

Re:Spoor

[pandrijeczko]

I have it on good authority that there are some owners of glass-topped coffee tables and a penchant for coprophilia who would disagree with you...

The criticism is as interresting

[aepervius]

Theistic evolution criticism

Choice quote :
""the illusion of design in the living world is explained with far greater economy ... by Darwinian natural selection"
"the universe would appear the same to us whether it was designed by God or not"

By Caroll and Dawkins.

Dear Spore Developers...

[pandrijeczko]

...you are **JUST** making a game.

If it's good, a lot of us may end up buying it and playing it.

If it's bad, then we've lots of other shit we can be doing instead - it's really no biggie.

So give us a quick tinkle when it's out in the shops, otherwise just **BUGGER OFF** until it's ready.

Thanks for your time and understanding.

Another article

[mrxak]

Ars Technica has more information on the three versions.

Re:Great...

[Khamura]

Having followed the game since it was first shown at the GDC, I can honestly say that all the hype was fandom-based. EA was surprisingly mum about the whole thing. Hell, for the most part of the last three years, the main website was a Flash placeholder animation with no pertinent information whatsoever. No, the hype surrounding this game came from people simply too taken with the concept to wait and see. Which is understandable, really, and I certainly belonged in that category for the first year or so.

Re:PIRACY IS KILLING PC GAMING

[neumayr]

...and she's not using it professionally?
Interesting, but few people spend that much money on software without some return of investment.

Re:Great...

[ivan256]

They had a huge presentation and demo at E3 2006. Hyping your product to the press was the whole point of that show. If you aren't press, you weren't invited...

fungus among us

[fdisk3hs]

Why do we care about some dude's fungus? I guess he's going to have some mushrooms then or something?

Re:Great...

[twosmokes]

If you date someone for looks rather than interests, they are going to get on your skin real fast once they get old.

I'd rather she get on my skin while she's still young. Often. Like several times a day.

Procedural Generation

[Beezlebub33]

As a developer interested in the workings of the game, I think that the most important change in this game is the inclusion of generated content above and beyond what has been done before.

So much time of the developers of modern games, and the reason that the damn files are so huge, is all the static data. Where are the trees, what kind of trees are they, what is the texture on that building, etc? With cpu's being what they are today, if you can figure out the statistical distribution of the trees, or create an algorithm that creates position dependent textures, then you can have a huge leap in realism, dynamic level of detail, and infinitely large (and diverse) virtual spaces.

If it's done right (and I'm crossing my fingers), it will be a great experience. And as with any other technology, it will spread to other games. In 10 years, creating a realistic game could be much easier. Today it's becoming exponentially harder and harder to create all that content.

Space Alien, Schmace Alien

[Hillgiant]

If a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, then a sufficiently advanced alien is indistinguishable from God. (Is this the Star Trek V argument or something?) I suppose it is moot anyhow. Occam's razor favors evolution, IMHO.

Re:Sigh...

[T.E.D.]

So I was discussing this news with a couple of my friends as we'd all been interested in the game. Sadly, I will be in the middle of studying for PhD qualifiers instead of being able to play.

What? ...Ohhh. I see. You actually think this means it is really going to come out on September 7th. How quaint.

You need to understand how to calculate actual release dates from announced release dates. What you do is take the delta between the last release date they announced and the current release date, divide by the delta between the release date announcements, and you arrive at an estimated slippage rate. Then you must integrate that against the number of days until the current official release date. The math is kinda complex, but I think you are more likely to have to worry about missing next MLK day to play it.

Ahh, to be young and idealistic again.

Re:EA Screws Mac Gamers Again

[Ilgaz]

Game utilizes Transgaming's Cider, which means a buggy, non-native piece of slow running crap like every other Cider game I've played...

Sigh. Please, bring back the 6 month waits for Aspyr & the rest to do a proper version. It also means no PowerPC support unfortunately.