Slashdot Mirror
NIST Working On "Deathalyzer"
coondoggie writes to mention that a new optical technique for sensing small amounts of molecules in a person's breath has been developed by a researcher for the National Institute of Standards and Technology. The goal is to create a fast, low-cost method for detecting disease. "In this approach, NIST researchers analyze human breath with 'frequency combs,' which are generated by a laser specially designed to produce a series of very short, equally spaced pulses of light. Each pulse may be only a few million billionths of a second long. The laser generates light as a series of very narrow frequency peaks equally spaced, like the teeth of a comb, across a broad spectrum."
... the machine keeps declaring that everyone has "Stupidity"...
I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
. . . this morning - I think he's gonna die real soon.
What?
In Soviet Russia, Diesease detects you!
Halitosis
downwind of SATAN.
Regards,
Kilgore Trout, PatRIOT
I can see how this could affect premiums, let alone offerings.
"None for you, deathbreath!"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Officer: I'm sorry sir, the deathalyzer says you're too far over the legal 'dead' limit to be driving. What do you have to say for yourself?
Passenger: But officer, he can't say anything he's dead.
Officer: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Passenger: What's that?
Officer: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.
I recall that it was fairly accurate too.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
I wonder how well this technology could be adapted for other applications, such as detecting contraband in travelers' luggage, or detecting explosives. Perhaps for detecting survivors or casualties during disasters?
Could we be seeing the demise of the drug/bomb sniffing dog with this new tech?
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Will this deathalizer tell me if someone is only mostly dead?
More
...of a second long? I parsed that as 'a few million' x 1/1,000,000,000.... isn't that just an overblown way of saying a few milliseconds? Disclaimer: not a mathematician, didn't RTFA, don't really care to. --DG
Is that a few thousandths or a few quadrillionths?
Was he helping out on this one? I heard he knows a thing or two about combs.
They better be careful before someone sues for patent violation for detecting "old stench".
The human nose can detect the particles accurately as you walk through a nursing home or hospital.
Like marijuana or cocaine? Wasn't one of the primary complaints against legalizing marijuana from a law enforcement perspective the lack of ability to monitor the level of intoxication of a user? Well there you go. Hippies rejoice. It's a step toward your green [smoke] goal. Tree hugging anyone?
Speak for yourself.
namely that my über-speed metal band has already trademarked "Deathalyzer(TM). (and in England, Deathalyser(TM)) We are willing, however, to post a disambiguation notice concerning the article on our website as a favor, however. You can see it at www.ideathalize.com
"You reek of death, human" - Illidan
Science fiction becomes science fact again?
Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
So we'll be able to wave a flickering sensor over someone to get medical info? Seems familiar...
/. is slipping....a story about lasers and no sharks tag?!? Shocked I tell, shocked.
....and find out your disease du jour.
Is there a prize for guessing correctly, first? Like a reduction on your future insurance premiums?
I had a mate who wasn't drinking test positive on a couple of breathalizers, but a blood test came up negative. He was arrested and it shook him quite badly. This is a whole new way of ruining lives. I wonder how many heart attacks you can induce telling a person they're about to die?
"The magic 8 ball says....." "you will live. Have a nice day!"
"The magic 8 ball says....." "you will die. Sorry better luck next time. Please be sure to pay your bill immediately"
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
--
End of Zombie Menace in Sight? NIST Working On "Deathalyzer"
Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wednesday February 20, @01:36PM
from the payback-time department
coondoggie writes to mention that a new optical technique for sensing small amounts of death molecules in a persons breath has been developed by a researcher for the National Institute of Standards and Technology. This technology might one day be used as a fast, low-cost method for detecting whether someone is a zombie. Could this mean the end of the zombie menace?
Deathclock?
The article is vague on how it works, but as a once upon a time chemical analyst (way way back), this sounds like it is doing the equivalent of an infra red scan, using rapid chopping the frequency the vibrations. Dunno. I just used the machines, I'm not a physicist. It may be a better way of doing it.
But the concept of detecting for a whole bunch of compounds at once has been around for many decades, as is the idea that you can detect health and sickness states with it. The ideas all seemed to bog down in reality. Pattern detection relies an a massive reliable database. In the article, they focussed on asthma. As a (once) chemist, I noted that hydrogen peroxide was now hydro-peroxide, and the nitrite and nitrate ions were somehow volatile. Not show stoppers, but cause for questioning what they actually were detecting. And rather hi-tech compared to a cardboard peak flow meter.
The social impact if it works is rather similar to gene scanning. If an employer tests applicants for jobs, then not only being a smoker can be detected. Maybe a whole bunch of disease risks. The individual risk increases may not be enough to diagnose a specific disease (so no use to a clinician), but a doubled risk of asthma, heart conditions etc would all ad up to a statistical bad risk. Life insurers also might like the idea.
So you may find it threatening. On the other had, if you are healthy, why have high insurance premiums. Oh well. Definitive tests for disease have been invented before. And people very sharply fall into the Want-to know or Don't-tell-me camps. Having the info acquired under a form of blackmail makes for problems.
Is this going to be as accurate as a breathalyzer?
Don't hold your breath.
Michael Jordon: Ask Mr. Puckett if I should bring it nose first or tail first?
Kate Hellman: Michael he's dead.
Michael Jordon: He is not dead.
Kate Hellman: Yes he is.
Michael Jordon: No he's not just ask him, ask him.
Kate Hellman: Mr. Puckett, should he bring it in nose first or tail first?
[pause]
Michael Jordon: What did he say?
Kate Hellman: [pounding Michael] Michael he's DEAD!!!
Michael Jordon: He is not dead, he has gas! Haven't you heard of that? He's having a gas attack!
Kate Hellman: Oh! [sighs]
Michael Jordon: Where are the wheels?
Kate Hellman: I don't know, where are the wheels?
Michael Jordon, Kate Hellman: Where are the wheels?
Michael Jordon: Where are the wheels?
Kate Hellman: [sarcastically] Oh why don't you ask Mr. Puckett where the wheels are?
Michael Jordon: Ha ha! Why can't I ask Mr. Puckett where the wheels are? Huh, Miss Smartass? Go on say it, go ahead!
Kate Hellman: Oh, because he's dead.
Michael Jordon: He is not dead, would you stop saying he's dead? He's got gas!
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Could we be seeing the demise of the drug/bomb sniffing dog with this new tech?
Maybe. But maybe we'll just see the rise of the electronic sniffing machines that can easily be surreptitiously programmed to report falsified findings, kinda like electronic voting machines.
I'm sure we're many of us familiar with the story of a few months back about the nursing home dog (perhaps cat?) that appeared to be able to smell impending fatality amongst the residents. And I personally will not forget the smell of cancer on my father's breath before he died early.
It's not beyond reason that the chemical composition of the breath might be detectably altered by disease. Nor that sensitive enough equipment might be able to detect this early and cheaply enough to be usable as a screening method.
In the hands of medics, sworn to confidentiality, this could help avoid considerable suffering and early, pointless death.
I don't see it as a threat to civil liberties. It's like the hypodermic. It's been used for many years as a tool in the psychiatric opression of political dissidents, been used to murder, been used to torture and so on and so forth.
But would you honestly rather the hypodermic had never existed? Of course not.
A hammer can be used to hurt you. Would you have them banned?
Personally, I'm hopeful about this one.
Why are you looking at me like that?
About the average Slashdot poster?
"I'm sorry sir, but we've determined that you've been dead for 3 years."
-- I really need to bleed off some of this
Wrong, one million billionths would not be equivalent to milli(billionth of a second)
:p
what it would be equivalent to is exactly what the gp said:
10^6 * 10^-9 = 10^-3 = 1 millisecond.
My Babylon
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_dog_cancer.html
Two additional anecdotal stories of early cancer detection by dogs:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-09-24-cancer-sniffing_x.htm
Does this bring a new meaning to the phrase "hold your breath"?
Today death breath, tomorrow DEATH EATERS! Where's Harry Potter when you need him?
Hmmm...looks like the writers strike is benefitting slashdot.
I think that's just a mistake in the article. Frequency combs usually use femptosecond pulses, so that would be a few million-billionths (millionths of a billionth) rather than a few million billionths.
Many of the possibilities have already been mentioned. In particular, the nursing home cat that knew which patients were about to die. I've also heard stories of dogs that can smell cancer. I've observed dogs that recognize pregnancy even before the test. The problem with using animals, though, is that the training is expensive and difficult. You can't have a reliable cancer smelling dog at every doctor's office for annual screenings. But you can have a device.
Of course, there are always the privacy issues. With medical data, we're on track to handle them. Medical records are confidential, and employers shouldn't be able to get at them (though it gets tricky with self-insured employers). The issue with screening impacting insurance coverage is the same as with any other potential test--laws address (or should address) which tests (if any) are allowed for coverage screening.
There are the privacy issues of how this technology could be used without the knowledge of the user. What if the police had something like this for their breathalyser, but not only would it record the BAC level, but also detect any use of other drugs (illegal or prescription). Or just leave it running in a hallway and determine who has various issues without them ever knowing that a check was made. We can't stop the technology, but we can (and should) legislate how it can be used.
Not likely since it's over now.
I had a mate who wasn't drinking test positive on a couple of breathalizers, but a blood test came up negative. He was arrested and it shook him quite badly. This is a whole new way of ruining lives.
Since you used the term 'mate' to describe your friend, I'll assume that you're perhaps in Australia???
People who have diabetes (even mild forms that otherwise do not need insulin treatments) often exhale small amounts of acetone, as that is a byproduct of improper metabolism of sugars in diabetics. Acetone causes the ethanol sensing mechanism in handheld breathalyzers to go ape-shit crazy and falsely over-report the presence of ethyl alcohol. Police officers in the USA are supposed to be trained specifically to be on the lookout for this situation in order to get certified to use the breathalyzer and be able to use its test results as evidence in a court of law.
Also people on low-carb diets will have elevated levels of acetone in their bloodstream.
All you need is one of these, and it also helps to keep the vermin at bay.
Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead! [Hits gong]
Large Man: Here's one.
Dead Collector: Ninepence.
Old Man: I'm not dead!
Dead Collector: What?
Large Man: Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
Old Man: I'm not dead!
Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
Large Man: Yes he is.
Large Man: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
Old Man: I'm getting better!
Large Man: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
Old Man: I don't want to go on the cart!
Large Man: Oh, don't be such a baby.
Dead Collector: I can't take him.
Old Man: I feel fine!
***
Large Man: Can't you check 'im with the Deathalyzer?
Old Man: Get that thing away from me!
Dead Collector: Aye, he'll be dead before Thursday. I'll be 'round again on Thursday.
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
.. work on parrots?
... I'll have a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster with a side of Plutonium Nyborg
FIST Working on "Deathanal..."
god that's so immature!
This may just be the closest we'll ever get to detecting Doom Particles!
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
The term "deathalyzer"'s similarity to the breathalyzer reminded me of a very funny situation I came across in my career as a police officer.
While running a driver's license on a normal traffic stop, the computer came back with the message "Deceased." The photo on the license was obviously the driver, and our computers return the license photo with the records request, so I knew it wasn't a fake ID. So I went back and told him "Sir, I really don't know how to tell you this, but according to your license, you're dead."
He looked at me, then looked at the license in my hand, then he checked his pulse! Then he laughed and told me he knew all about the problem and had been fighting with the DMV for months over the error. We shared a good laugh and he got a "please drive a little slower" instead of a speeding ticket.
I suppose with the deathalyzer I would say "your license says you're dead, please blow into this so we can make sure."
The article is vague on how it works, but as a once upon a time chemical analyst (way way back), this sounds like it is doing the equivalent of an infra red scan, using rapid chopping the frequency the vibrations.
The fourier transform of a train of identical pulses is a "comb" - a series of sharp, equally-spaced frequencies where the spacing (difference in frequency between consecutive component "colors") is the same as the repetition rate of the pulse train.
A laser consists of a resonant cavity and an amplifier (maybe plus some optional extras).
The cavity, like a guitar string, has a SET of equally-spaced resonances ("resonance modes"), all those frequencies where a round trip of a wave is an exact integer number of wavelengths of the frequency (of light in this case). So it will resonate for light colors where a billion wavelengths fit, or a billion-and-one, or a billion-and-two, and so on. This resonant response is also a "comb" of equally spaced frequencies. And this comb has a LOT of teeth.
The amplifier is electrons in atoms, pumped up to high energy states stimulated by passing photons to make a transition from a particular high state to another particular lower state and emit this energy as another photon of the same frequency and phase. It amplifies a particular frequency. This response WOULD be very sharp - at absolute zero. But it is broadened by such things as doppler shifts from thermal vibration.
Combine the frequency response curves of the amplifier and the resonant cavity and you'll find a significant number of "teeth" in the resonant cavity's "comb" where the gain on a photon's round trip is greater than one, i.e. a photon is more likely to release a partner than to get lost on any given round trip. These are the modes where the laser will oscillate.
But pumping energy into a mode removes energy from the amplifier, momentarily lowering its gain. So (as with an organ pipe or a brass horn) the mode (or modes) which get "pumped up" steal energy that would otherwise be available to other modes. As a result (if nothing else is done), only a small number of modes near the peak of the amplifier's response actually end up having significant energy. Further, while the total output is controlled by the available power from the amplifier, the distribution of this power among the active modes varies with time, as the noisy nature of the amplifier's individual mode-pumping transitions happens to pump-up one or another of them more while they're all being attenuated by the loss of power through the output and other mechanisms. Finally, each mode oscillates separately, so there's no particular phase relationship between them (and the phases of each mode also drift independently with time). The amplitude variations correspond to a slight broadening of the spectrum of the individual modes, while the phase variations correspond to a slight wandering in frequency.
A small number of frequencies, each varying considerably in strength, is not too good for measuring light absorption. You could measure them to construct a moment-to-moment calibration. But there's a better approach.
This approach is "mode locking". One of those extras. a variable-refractive-index crystal, is inserted in the cavity and excited with a radio signal. The frequency of the signal is the DIFFERENCE between any two consecutive modes (i.e. the radio frequency for which the cavity length is a half-wavelength). This phase-modulator "detunes" the cavity's resonances except for waves with a particular phase relationship to the exciting frequency. So all the modes are phase-locked to the excitation frequency - and thus to each other. This is the "mode-locked" laser. It's usually done to produce narrow and tightly-controlled pulses. But for this device it's about producing a large number of stable colors, with the pulsing as a side-effect of how it's done.
Now (the dual of what I said above) a "comb" of equally-spaced frequencies, all in phase, is the fo
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
For those who are wondering what the parent is talking about when he mentions the nursing home cat: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959718/
Thanks for the various explanations. I really like technology. I last touched a flask at the end of the last millennium, and it looks like the science has really progressed. I was more into GC mass-spectrometry, and I do not care what they say about it being the gold standard (then). At the part per billion level, it was prone to false positives. We just loved finding co-metabolites to confirm the diagnosis and reduce our paranoia. (It was a regulatory lab.)
So very sensitive pattern matching was a dream, seldom achieved. This is cool stuff.
As for the specific application. Not to worry. It is simply sufficient that there be an excellent potential. When I was an undergrad (late 60s), lasers were talked about as a billion dollar solution to a problem no-one had found yet. 5 years later, they were making optical cables to shine them down. This is just another use for them. Way to go.
Thanks again for the info. Cheers from latitude 45 south.
They ought (as the GP indicated) to say femtosecond then.. what so hard about that? This, I guess, is why the SI system is so handy.
My Babylon