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Dilbert Goes Flash, Readers Revolt

spagiola writes "The Dilbert.com website just got an extreme makeover. Gone is the old, rather clunky but perfectly functional, website, replaced by a Flash-heavy website that only Mordac the Preventer of Information Services could love. Users have been pretty unanimous in condemning the changes. Among the politer comments: 'Congrats. Vista is no more lonely at the top in the Competition For The Worst Upgrade In Computing Industry, this web site upgrade being a serious contender.' You have to register to leave comments, but many seem to have registered for the express purpose of panning the new design."

61 of 486 comments (clear)

  1. Heh by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Funny

    "You have to register to leave comments, but many seem to have registered for the express purpose of panning the new design." I know some PHBs that would consider the boom in registrations as a positive thing.
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Heh by me+at+werk · · Score: 5, Funny

      "some" meaning "all"

      --
      For context, click Parent.
    2. Re:Heh by Devv · · Score: 3, Funny

      "I know some PHBs that would consider the boom in registrations as a positive thing."

      Since we changed the interface our website has become 1051% more popular. It's sticking.

      --
      +1 Agree -1 Disagree
    3. Re:Heh by Chapter80 · · Score: 5, Funny
      Pure genius!

      Only Scott Adams could come up with such a great parody. That's one way to get your cartoon talked about - screw it up in a way that only a PHB would love. Get on the front page of Slashdot. Energize your audience!

  2. Actually, much of it is accessable. by Pinckney · · Score: 5, Informative

    Clearly, there is some flash on the site, but I can still view all the comics without it.

    1. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by Yetihehe · · Score: 3, Informative

      I thought the page is just broken. Didn't see any comics, just some background images. Clearly, it IS most hated "upgrade" if it made it to slashdot front page.

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    2. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by e5150 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, yesterday and earlier today you couldn't see the comic w/o flash.
      Thanks for pointing this out, I had just removed my cronjob to fetch-dilbert-and-set-as-wallpaper-script, probably need to rewrite it tough.

    3. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by Stevecrox · · Score: 5, Informative

      Where I work flash is blocked from installing, my morning routine used to be to open Dilbert and have a read while some of the other apps I use slowly load. With no flash on your browser all you get is two coloured bars and two requests to install flash. I'm betting alot of corporate places follow similar practices.
      I thought the old site was dated but after just glancing at the new one, I definitly want the old back.
      No I'm not time wasting, it takes Outlook and Eclipse about a minute+ to load, more than enough time to pop open an IE tab and glance at Dilbert.

    4. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by _KiTA_ · · Score: 5, Informative

      Where I work flash is blocked from installing, my morning routine used to be to open Dilbert and have a read while some of the other apps I use slowly load. With no flash on your browser all you get is two coloured bars and two requests to install flash. I'm betting alot of corporate places follow similar practices.
      I thought the old site was dated but after just glancing at the new one, I definitly want the old back.

      No I'm not time wasting, it takes Outlook and Eclipse about a minute+ to load, more than enough time to pop open an IE tab and glance at Dilbert. http://news.yahoo.com/comics/dilbert

      Here ya go. It's SYNDICATED, people. That means, dilbert.com isn't the only place to get it. Woo~.
    5. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by GuidoW · · Score: 3, Funny

      And frankly, what with all the annoying blinking animated ads on the new page, viewing this without flash is definitely the better way.

      --
      If it's so secret, then how come I've never heard of it?
    6. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by Stellian · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ok, you non web-2.0-adopting retrograds... here's the html version:
      http://www.comics.com/comics/dilbert/archive/index.html

      Excuse me while I emerge myself in the synergistic experience of the new flash interface, and step into the 21st (maybe even 22nd) century, while leaving you the prisoners of the old web 1.0

    7. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by ntufar · · Score: 5, Informative

      I get it using RSS: http://feeds.feedburner.com/dilbertdailystrip/ Works like magic.

    8. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by Christophotron · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where I work flash is blocked from installing Solution: Buy a USB flash drive, install Firefox Portable from portableapps.com, and install flash into that browser. Works wonders for libraries, work, etc. and it technically doesn't break any rules (depending on how draconian your IT dept. wants to be). It's also great for privacy by keeping your browser cache/history sandboxed to the USB stick. I never leave home without mine.

      Granted, flash SUCKS when it is used for anything where it is unnecessary such as freaking DILBERT. But it's still nice to have around when you want it.

    9. Re:Actually, much of it is accessable. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 3, Funny

      I stopped thinking Dilbert was funny a 100 years ago.
      This is normal. It happens when you get promoted to phb.
  3. Deleted by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have flashblock and noscript up. I tried temporarily allowing just a few things to let me view the site, but when that didn't work, I gave up and deleted Dilbert from my bookmarks.

    It's funny, but it's not worth it. He also has an irrational love of Microsoft at times, such as when he thought that Bill Gates would make a good president.

    Because, you know, it's not like the rest of the world minds having the USA push them around. And it's not like Bill is known for being good at that kind of business, or anything like that...

    Suffice it to say, I didn't feel like it was worth the bother to continue reading it.

    1. Re:Deleted by frdmfghtr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did it get reverted back or something?

      I don't understand the outrage. For comparison, this is what it looks like for me.
      Same here...I have Firefox on a mac with Adblock Plus and Noscript active, and I can read the site just fine.
      --
      Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
  4. Can't leave well enough alone by timeOday · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This seems to be universal among web designers. They just aren't happy unless they're redesigning something to make it more complicated and less likely to work.

    My award for "sticking with what works" goes to craigslist.org.

    1. Re:Can't leave well enough alone by CajunArson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      s/web designers/designers/g

      Wisdom is knowing when to rip out the kludge, and knowing when it isn't really a kludge and to leave it the #$@# alone.

      --
      AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    2. Re:Can't leave well enough alone by MindStalker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a web programmer I'd say its that managers can't stop demanding new features. I spent half my time trying to talk people out of features my job would be so much easier if I just relented....

    3. Re:Can't leave well enough alone by linzeal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look at this site, the reply to this buttons replaced a perfectly useful reply text link. Now the pages are 10% longer than they used to be and take forever to scroll on small screens. Since the change I have been coming to Slashdot maybe 10% of the time I used to. Does anyone know how to get the old slashdot back?

    4. Re:Can't leave well enough alone by GotenXiao · · Score: 5, Informative

      Disable Javascript. All the old behaviour comes back. Alternatively, go into Help & Preferences, Posting and select Slashdot Classic Discussion System.

      --
      Goten Xiao
    5. Re:Can't leave well enough alone by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They just aren't happy unless they're redesigning something to make it more complicated and less likely to work.

      New PHB managers always want to "make their mark" by making changes. I'll bet that's what is going on. The act of changing stuff is more important to them than the merit of it. It's like a wolf pissing on a log to mark its territory. We're seeing e-piss here.

    6. Re:Can't leave well enough alone by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most people are quite aware that being able to tell a piece of music is snappy doesn't mean they can write a hit song. But somehow the distinction between experiencing excellence and producing it is lost on people when it comes to design.

      Designing something is deceptively simple. Maybe it is simple, and that's what makes it hard. It's easy to do something bad, and hard to recognize something bad when it comes out of your self.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    7. Re:Can't leave well enough alone by Z34107 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Great Grandparent: How can I get the old Slashdot back?

      Grandparent: Disable Javascript. All the old behaviour comes back.

      Parent AC: Somehow your attempt to be helpful is "blatently obvious" and irrelevant.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
  5. Dilbert stopped being funny a decade ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Am I the only one who thinks Dilbert stopped being funny back in the 1990s? The last collection I enjoyed was Bring Me the Head of Willy the Mailboy . Since then, Adams has just been going over and over the same handful of gags. And even though corporate culture in America may have changed to some extent, the Dilbert office seems the same early '90s environment that inspired him to turn the strip towards a parody of office life.

  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. No Linux? by mce · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here's what I sent them earlier on when discovering that part of the site even does not support Linux:

    I really can't believe you show such a big lack of understanding of your target audience. Dilbert & Co. are engineers. Engineers read Dilbert because of how much it reflects the silly issues they face every day when dealing with clueless managers, marketeers, etc. It helps them to have a smile on their face in the face of office misery.

    And then what do we get? A Dilbert site update that does not support Linux. In 2008. Guess what? Engineers use Linux. I've fought my PHBs for the right to do so back in 1999 and I won. About the whole department has been Linux-on-the-desktop ever since...

    My MBA (yes, I have one of those as well and yet I still use Linux) tells me that you're making a classical mistake of many companies that once were successful. Note the tense of that!

    April 17, 2008: A day that will live in infamy.

    And that's just one of my gripes. The new UI is clunky; the site is slow; ...

    1. Re:No Linux? by lorenlal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And try going to the next strip....
      No previous or next button on any of the pages...

      BRILLIANT!

    2. Re:No Linux? by mce · · Score: 3, Informative

      For the non-working bit, try the animated strips section. I'd post a link, but for some reason I'm now seeing the old site again...

    3. Re:No Linux? by justthinkit · · Score: 5, Funny

      BrianRegan.com got flashed a year or so back and I sent a complaint email (parts of it didn't work in Opera). Next thing I know, Brian used my first name for one of the dumber characters in a comic routine. So I'd suggest complaining anonymously...

      --
      I come here for the love
  8. Well, a good, unintended slashdotting ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ought to make them think a little more carefully about extensive use of resource-heavy options such as Flash. :-)

  9. Damn I'm good by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I must be a flippin mind reader or able to see into the future. I just wrote about this kind of nonsense.


    It's a freaking static cartoon! What possible asinine reason could there be to screw up such a simple concept? I saw this the other day and so, like Doonesbury, won't be visiting it any more due to their use of Flash.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Damn I'm good by _KiTA_ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I must be a flippin mind reader or able to see into the future. I just wrote about this kind of nonsense.



      It's a freaking static cartoon! What possible asinine reason could there be to screw up such a simple concept? I saw this the other day and so, like Doonesbury, won't be visiting it any more due to their use of Flash.

      Well, they do have this cool user-submitted "Mashup" system, where you can click on a Dilbert strip and re-write the punchline -- it's then put on a voting site where people can vote and comment on it. I thought that was brilliant, myself...

  10. Probably a Consultant by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It was probably some outside consultant that convinced them of the perceived need to produce a "competitive" web-site in today's market, and only this garbage will do.

    Don't these PHB clowns realize that it's content that draws people to a site, and excessive bandwidth, insecure plug-ins required, inane registration requirements, and slow downloads that drive them away again.

    Scott Adam's personal e-mail address is well-known (remember to put 'Dilbert' in the subject line to slip past his spam filter). One can still complain to him directly.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  11. non flash dilbert by Cromac · · Score: 5, Informative

    Good thing you can still get your dilbert fix at http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/

  12. At Least it's not Silverlight by BlueBoxSW.com · · Score: 5, Funny

    At Least it's not Silverlight...

  13. repeat old stuff for a new generation by petes_PoV · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Since then, Adams has just been going over and over the same handful of gags

    That's OK, it's just a genreational change.

    Each generation is arrogant enough to ignore the collected wisdom of what's gone before, so it makes the same old mistakes. Hence Dilbert is just as popular with the new "breed" of readers as it was with the last lot. The reason is they get just as frustrated with the same bosses making the same mistakes as their forebears. No doubt in 100 years time, people will still be grousing about the incompetence of their superiors and Scott Adams, or his grandchildren, will still be making money out of it.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  14. Come over to the dark side by fermion · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Most person becomes that which they most rail against. More often than not, these people realize that those they railed against, for instance the PHB, were just doing things that they could not at that point understand. It has been interesting to see Scott Adams descend into the PHB. The PHB that is continuously coming up with new ways to make a profit, and has little concern with quality or application. Be it outsourcing to unqualified labour or redesigning a web site, the PHB is interested in earning, not customers or quality. This is why engineers have such trouble dealing with them. Engineers are taught that their job is to make the world better, and it is unethical to cut corners primarily to increase profits.

    SO, this website redesign proves that Dilbert has become the PHB. A design not help the customers or users, but to help the bottom line. How does it hep. Well, for one, it put Dilbert on the front page of /. after I don't know how long. It is an marketing gimmick, nothing more. Dilbert is irrelevant, and when one is irrelevent, there is little else to do but employ gimmicks. OTOH, I am sure it will work. Admas will sell some of his collected blog entries, people will reminisce about the good old days, and many will complain simply because they cannot understand that a business must generate a good profit.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  15. Re:...intellectual property on the web by JensR · · Score: 3, Informative

    You've got to be signed in to use the save button, and to email it you have to give them the email address.
    It would've been easier to just leave it a gif as before.

  16. In future news... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Dilbert site managers, responding to the overwhelmingly negative reaction by users to the recent Flash makeover, just announced that the Flash enhancements will be removed and replaced with Silverlight.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  17. Double standard... by Kenja · · Score: 4, Funny

    I flash MY dilbert and I get four months.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  18. Re:Ouch by rossz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is fairly common for people who have no clue about how to design with standards complient html/css to use flash to make a wiz-bang menu that doesn't work with many browsers, takes longer to load, and is completely hostile to the sight impaired.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
  19. Don't use JavaScript, problem solved by Graftweed · · Score: 4, Informative

    The site is still perfectly functional and showing the strips using plain old .GIFs... *if* you use NoScript.

    Allow JavaScript to run and the whole thing blows up in your face and splatters flash everywhere.

  20. Official RSS Feed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Quite amazingly, it seems no one has pointed out that there is now an official RSS feed (in colour) for Dilbert at http://feeds.feedburner.com/DilbertDailyStrip

  21. Re:What a bunch of grumpy old cave trolls by Javarrito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its not that we hate new technology. Its more that we hate when simple technology that is accepted as a standard is replaced by complex buggy technology that isn't as widely available yet performs the exact same function. With the exception of the animated strips, there is absolutely no need for Flash to be used on this site--all Flash does in this case is make the page load slower and increase the chances that the page will not render correctly (ie, if the client doesn't have Flash).

    Now, that being said, the Dilbert Archive is, of yet, unchanged.

  22. In a lot of places, it didn't change by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, in a lot of places the office life is much the same. And, trust me, not only in the USA.

    As a consultant, I can tell you that some of the projects I'm dragged into, the things I see, and the things I piece together, often make Dilbert look tame. At any rate, I see everything from Dilbert:

    - Wally clones? Check. Armies of them.

    One managed to work for 3 years to make a trivial module, that later someone else rewrote in 6 hours from scratch. The rewrite was also 40 times faster, when benchmarked on a large-ish data set. And that's just one of them. He also heavily obfuscated his code, with over half the techniques from "How To Write Unmaintainable Code." (If you can believe that variable names like Pete, Eve and Steve are anything else, I have a bridge in Sahara to sell. And that's just one of the dozens of sins of that code.)

    I've also seen people whose day consists at least half, of doing the grand tour of all floors where they know someone, to find people to talk to. Probably the saddest case was one whose morning, from 9 to 12 consisted of making a list of what pizza each team member wants to order for noon. Now you're probably going, "wtf, that doesn't take 3 hours even for 100 people." Well, let me explain: not just going around and quickly noting what they want. He went and started a whole debate on the pros and contras of ordering a Calzone, or maybe a Quatro Stagioni this time. And, hey, did you see that today they have a special price for Pizza Margarita? With each and every person individually.

    - Evil secretaries? Check. E.g., in one project they lost their best programmer, a contractor, when the secretary at the company that supplied him, cancelled his medical insurance just before his wife went into labour. Apparently, for no reason whatsoever, she just called the insurance company and said that he's getting a private insurance somewhere else. The guy understandably went "fuck you very much" and quit.

    From what I hear, it was also quite the uphill battle to get her to do anything, including actually get the overtime paid that the client had already paid for.

    Last I've heard, she got a promotion.

    - Mordac The Preventer Of IT Services? Check. At times it feels like one in 3 guys in IT make it their goal in life to prevent everyone else from getting their job done.

    A particular one, well, wasn't even consistent about what he wanted, except that it's the opposite of what you want. To one team and project it was "you're not getting queues unless they're all on the same queue manager", to another one in the same time interval it was "you're not getting queues unless they're on different queue managers". To one it was "you're not getting anything if you work with message timeouts, because it defeats the whole idea behind reliable messaging!", while to another one it was "you're not getting queues from me unless you set timeouts on the messages! I don't want you to fill the whole partition with old messages!" Etc.

    One DBA argued that it's not his job to tune the production database.

    And it doesn't seem to be entirely unheard of, that some company's internal IT department sets such outrageous prices for any service, that it would be cheaper to burn a large file on a CD and send it by _taxi_ to the other end of the country, than to use their network and their servers. In one place management was actually proud that their IT department is the most productive department in the company and makes the biggest profits. As if that's something positive, and not an undue burden on the other departments.

    - Incompetent managers and incompetent management decisions? Oooer. I could fill a tome with those alone. But let's just say: some managers were keeping the above parasites employed. It's not even the biggest management sin I've seen, but it's enough to make me wonder, you know?

    Etc, etc, etc.

    Basically I'm talking a guess that all that changed there is that you got a new job sometime in the 90's, where that doesn't happen any more.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  23. Re:uhhh hello... by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The environment is changing, in much the same way it has for the past few million years. We're not doing it. The environment is. Wow. So you're saying, in defiance to a wider margin than "a nuclear bomb is feasible" had, that throwing massive amounts of carbon and other pollutants into the sky is having NO effect?

    I'm truly shocked by your scientific acumen.

    The Climate Crisis is not that the environment is changing. It's that it's changing far, far too fast.
  24. Shoulda Used Quicksilver by STrinity · · Score: 4, Funny

    Everybody prefers Quicksilver over stodgy ol' Flash.

    --
    Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    1. Re:Shoulda Used Quicksilver by freeweed · · Score: 3, Informative

      Flamebait?

      Yeesh. And here I thought Slashdot had at least SOME comic book fans.

      Flash

      Quicksilver

      It's a play on words around the whole "flash vs silverlight" thing, but apparently the mods here just figured someone was making a Microsoft joke or something.

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
  25. Site works in Linux by chk89 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    FYI, the whole site works on Linux, just use the User Agent Switcher plugin for Firefox and spoof yourself as IE7 on Windows. The animations portion works fine.

    On a side note, this is what is extremely frustrating about this really, the fact that they didn't limit it to Windows and Mac because of technical reasons, they ARTIFICIALLY limited it. This is actually worse in my opinion.

  26. Re:uhhh hello... by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is humor in everything in life.

    One of the funniest things in life is watching believers get all bent out of shape when you laugh at them. Creationists, Scientologits, Vegan proselytizers, the Global Warming crowd, the 9/11 troofers, many kinds of new-age woo-woos, radical feminists, anti-feminists, and the list goes on and on.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  27. Less Sucktastic Page by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Informative

    Try here. Not flash and he apparently has every Dilbert ever since the beginning of time.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  28. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  29. One of those things is not like the others by Nursie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Global warming has a sound scientific basis.

    1. Re:One of those things is not like the others by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Global warming has a sound scientific basis.

      So does global cooling. They both happen, again and again.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:One of those things is not like the others by smashin234 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sounds scientific basis is not what global warming has...what it has is computer modeling that supports a theory that its possible that man-kind will increase the temperature of the earth by CO2 emissions. When you perform data mining on large amounts of data, you use something called statistics which can be scewed depending on the model you are using, and how long into the future you attempt to predict. Not to mention which modeling technique you use, or what data you guess on, or what data you simply throw out.

      To explain further, the models are based on data starting in different years, with different levels of scientific precision, and in many cases the data is not necassarilly reliable. If you start in 1810, a lot of the data from other parts of the Earth are missing. If you start later, your model does not have that much data to really predict the climate. The models that really get me are the ones that predict the weather 100 years from now based on 100 years worth of data. Thats like predicting whats going to happen in the NFL next year based on what happened this year and taking it as scientific fact.

      No one really knows the future, and although models may support something, you are still using statistics which we all know that 60% of all statistics are made up. 61% maybe?

      Sure, there are models out there that support global warming, but there are also models that don't. Sound scientific basis doesn't use statistics. Scientific basis in this case would be if you could prove that increased CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere increases the Earth's temperature all by itself. There are too many factors in the science of climate that makes this causation unprovable, and in addition there is no direct evidence or science that even shows a correlation. There is more evidence that smoking increases your chances of lung cancer then the claim of global warming.

      This is because the climatology is in its infancy and until all the factors of the Earth's climate are figured out, you can't call it sound scientific basis. Do I reject global warming personally? Absolutly not. I do believe that we should go greener and that we should by all means do everything in our power to preserve this planet for future generations, but I also believe that in this case that the statistics used can NEVER be construed as SOUND scientific basis.

    3. Re:One of those things is not like the others by SomeKDEUser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. Global warming is an attested fact. That humans contribute to it also.

      There is debate on the exact amount attributable to humans, and that is all.

      Sound science it is. Statistics are the basis of sound science, and if you think no fact can be construed from statistics, than pretty much all science is bunk.

      Why is it experiments are repeated, do you think? for the fun of it? Why are papers littered with p-values and "statistically significant" and error bars and so on and so forth?

      Hint: statistics are not a magical way of fudging data. On the contrary.

    4. Re:One of those things is not like the others by Ambitwistor · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://www.mruzik.com/CO2.html

      There is a study for you that contridicts the CO2 theory.

      Yeah, right. It's a pile of misleading statements to fool people who don't know any of the science. I think it's quite telling that you choose to cite a self-published web page which spends half its time deriding "left wing wackos", instead of citing any scientific studies. It's quite plain that your agenda is political in nature, not honest scientific skepticism.

      Water vapor amplifies existing warming trends, but it cannot cause them; it is a feedback, not a forcing. You can't increase the average water vapor content of the atmosphere without first raising its temperature — otherwise, any excess water vapor would quickly precipitate back out. That's why you need forcings like long-lived greenhouse gases, solar irradiance, etc.

      It's true that adding more CO2 to the atmosphere has less of an effect the more you add, because the adsorption bands start to saturate. This gives rise to the well known logarithmic relationship (Beer-Lambert law) between CO2 concentration and its radiative forcing. But it is nowhere near full saturation, which is why the curve is logarithmic rather than asymptotically constant. This is verified in laboratory experiments, in line-by-line radiative transfer codes, and IIRC in satellite observations of the atmosphere.

      It is simply ridiculous to claim that CO2 causes cooling; it is at odds with both theory and observation. CO2 and warming exist in a feedback system: external influences (such as the orbital variations which set the timing for the ice age cycle) cause warming (or cooling), and CO2 amplifies that warming or cooling: warming brings more CO2 out of the oceans which leads to more warming; cooling has the opposite effect.

      It is indeed quite possible that clouds contribute a negative feedback (cooling effect) in response to global warming, but that has nothing to do with the warming which is due to CO2. It just means that clouds may slow the warming beyond CO2's effect alone. There are a number of such feedbacks, both positive and negative. (Water vapor has already been mentioned as a positive feedback.) The instrumental temperature record indicates that the net feedback is significantly positive.

      Let me know if you want any citations to journal articles regarding these topics. You can start with the latest IPCC report, Working Group 1.

      A fact is that there is no sound scientific data that climate change and CO2 correlate.

      The very web page you cite notes the strong correlation between climate change and CO2 in the ice core record. (It goes on to claim, incorrectly, that the causation is backwards, but it admits the correlation.)

      Indeed, all the studies are either inconclusive or say the opposite.

      Oh really? What "studies" are those? Certainly none of the ones documented here.

      Studies of icecaps indicate that before every iceage the earth's CO2 levels were much higher then at any time...

      As I said, this doesn't mean that CO2 causes ice age. CO2 helps to warm out of ice ages, finishing what orbital variations and other climate forcings started. You can't get the large amount of warming observed in the ice age cycle if you ignore the greenhouse effect of the excess CO2. Eventually, the orbital cycle shifts into a phase of declining solar irradiance (well, it's more complicated than that; where the sunlight is concentrated and the extremes of variations contribute at least as much as the raw insolation itself), which causes temperatures to drop. A few centuries to a millennium after that, the CO2 starts dropping too, which hastens the cooling.

      How many examples must I give you about statistics and how they can be misused before you will see the light?

      Whee, statistics can be misused. So can mathematics, experiments, observations, and t

  30. Re:Eve and Goatse by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Funny
    Actually, Eve for this guy was the event received from another component. Seriously, I understand what you're trying to say, there may be situations like what you describe, etc. But trust me, in this case it had nothing to do with cryptography or with any protocol described like that.

    Plus, heck, the guy was at _this_ competence level:

    He wrote a method

    public static void nuller(String x) {
        x = null;
    }
    And called it like this:

    someDataObject.name = "test";
    nuller(someDataObject.name);
    System.out.println(someDataObject.name);
    And was genuinely surprised that it still prints "test". He debugged that for a couple of days and tried a few... innovative variations, before coming over and asking.

    Another incident involving him, was his going, "Arrgh! Java's Hashtable is broken! I added a new value with a different key and it replaced the old one!" I go over and look, he's looking at the bucket array of the Hashtable with the debugger. "Look," he goes, "my old value was here, and now it's the other value."

    "Ah, we had that bug too in a program at the previous company I worked for!" chimes in Wally #2 from the next desk. "We had to manually set the capacity to avoid it!"

    I try hard not to scream.

    "Ok," I say, "expand that 'next' element please. I want to see what's in it."

    "Oh... there it is..." goes Wally.

    "Well, set the capacity anyway," Wally #2 doesn't give up, "at the old company it really replaced the old value."

    What had happened? Ok, you know already, but for the benefit of other Wallies reading this: it's a linked list. The new element with a different key didn't replace the old one, it was simply added to the front of the list for that bucket.

    (And if you think that's bad, another team actually went and implemented a new key class with a surrealistically-inefficient custom hashCode(), to avoid the same "bug in Java." They went and changed the whole program, from one end to another, with that stupidity. Kinda funny because it was provable that it didn't really "solve" anything. There's mathematically no way to hash a long string into a 32 bit number, and then pack it into only 31 buckets or whatever, without the possibility of collisions.)

    Anyway, I'm just saying, don't think that that guy was some crypto-guru who had memorized all the little sketches with Alice and Bob. He didn't know how calling by value works, nor what a linked list is, so advanced stuff like crypto was sadly way out of his grasp anyway.
    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  31. Fallacy alert by microbox · · Score: 3, Informative

    So does global cooling. They both happen, again and again.

    Just because the earth warms and cools naturally doesn't mean that human beings can't frig with the same mechanisms, and make it warm unnaturally.

    The global cooling scare of the 70s was based on a few concerned scientific papers, and a lot of imaginative reporting. The press knows a good story when they see one. There was no scientific agreement on the issue - just a few papers.

    The evidence for anthropogenic warming is there for anybody to look up. I spent some time trying to find the basis for the claims on "skeptic" websites. I have not found a single sound skeptic website, which actually backs its claims up, and is not full of sh1t.

    Furthermore, key websites on the skeptic side of things, are run by industry lobbyists and shills who were involved in the tobacco industry mis-information campaign.

    --

    Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
  32. Re:uhhh hello... by TERdON · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Now consider that it takes at least ten times as much energy to make a car than the car will use during its entire lifetime."

    Uhm, wrong way around. It uses about ten times as much energy during its life-time than by manufacturing...

    --
    I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...