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Researchers Infiltrate and 'Pollute' Storm Botnet

ancientribe writes "Dark Reading reports that a group of European researchers has found a way to disrupt the massive Storm botnet by infiltrating it and injecting "polluted" content into it to disrupt communication among the bots and their controlling hosts. Other researchers have historically shied way from this controversial method because they don't "want to mess with other peoples' PCs by injecting commands," said one botnet expert quoted in the article.

77 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. It's not Really... by cromar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not really messing with other people so much as preventing them from messing with tons of other infected hosts. Seriously, this is no moral question. "Poisoning" Storm is nothing but a good idea.

    1. Re:It's not Really... by Charred+Shaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, It's the botnet equivalent of counter-espionage. Really one for the good guys here.

    2. Re:It's not Really... by moderatorrater · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, this is no moral question. "Poisoning" Storm is nothing but a good idea. Unless there's a problem with the command you send out and it completely wipes the end users hard drive and all their personal data or does something else destructive to the infected user. Just because their computer's being ordered around without their permission doesn't mean that it's right for you to start ordering it around without their permission too. Then there's the issue of liability if something goes wrong, etc.

      It would be far better to monitor the botnet, find the computers involved and then help them clean their computer and prevent another infection. It's not as simple or efficient in the short term, but it's more moral and more effective in the long run.
    3. Re:It's not Really... by wizardforce · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unless there's a problem with the command you send out and it completely wipes the end users hard drive and all their personal data or does something else destructive to the infected user.
      an OS shouldn't allow that, then again it shouldn't allow you to get pwned by visiting malicious web pages or opening emails either. The problem is that you're talking about a hypothetical problem that may or may not exist. Storm is real and doing real damage to the world. sitting back and watching the fireworks just because you're afraid to break something is in my opinion irresponsible.
      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    4. Re:It's not Really... by ChoppedBroccoli · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are right, it isn't necessarily a moral question. Obviously, the researchers are trying to do a good thing, and their good intentions are good and correct.

      It is more of a legal/tehcnical question. Are you legally allowed to do this? And the major problem for researchers is that they have no cloak of anonymity like the bad guys do: they are easily linked/traced to all their actions by the mere fact that they publish their work and share their results. If anything goes wrong, or even if an overzealous user just wants to sue/go to court for the sake of suing, then the researchers are SOL.

      It IS a gray area, even if you are morally correct.

    5. Re:It's not Really... by peachstealingmonkeys · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even though I agree with you on the second half of the comment I still think you are spreading FUD with the first part.. 1) "Researchers" don't "just" send the polluted hashes to the bots in hopes of it to disrupt communications. 2) They aren't "fuzzing" the bots looking for a vulnerability, that will disrupt a command channel and possibly crash a bot completely. That would be extremely irresponsible. 3) "Researchers" analyze the bot software localy in order to determine the correct hash strings to figure out the way to disrupt communication 4) obviously the 'attackers' can introduce a back process in to their bot software that would destroy the bot image and OS completely if such control channel disruption is detected, however it's pointless since the bot is out of the commission anyway.

    6. Re:It's not Really... by cromar · · Score: 5, Informative
      Sure, in general that is a valid concern. However,

      The pollution attack... "overwrites" the P2P botnet's key, an identifier that's used to get command information to the bots. Storm generates keys to find other bots, the researchers noted. So there really isn't a risk, in this case, of executing maleficent code or overwriting large portions of anything. The Storm operators might modify the peers to self-destruct the host or something, though I doubt they will given that Storm needs the host to be at all useful.
    7. Re:It's not Really... by kaiser423 · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you RTFA, they are not sending any commands to the end computer. They are just disrupting communications between the nodes.

      Effectively, fracturing the net into multiple pieces; not taking control o the computers and doing something.

      This is not a counter-attack to the infection or anything like that. They're just jamming the comm system that the bots use. They're not actively doing anything to the bot or computer.

    8. Re:It's not Really... by el_flynn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unless there's a problem with the command you send out and it completely wipes the end users hard drive and all their personal data or does something else destructive to the infected user. True, but who's to say the resident malware isn't already doing that? Although I'm sure the bot manufacturer will take quite strong measures to stop this from happening, as it would really result in a non-productive bot. So the anti-bot programmer would just have to take similar steps I suppose.

      It would be far better to monitor the botnet, find the computers involved and then help them clean their computer and prevent another infection. TFA says the researchers "saw between 5,000 and 40,000 machines online at a time."
      Who, other than a NATO-type international task force, would have the resources to reach out to those 40k users and help them clean their machines? All you IT admins and helpdesk staff are already cringing at the thought of handling tens or hundreds of users -- can you even begin to imagine trying to explain to thousands of clueless users what's happened to their PC, and what steps to take to clean it?
      --
      The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
    9. Re:It's not Really... by msimm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Running an infected bot is inherently risky, just like the virus or worm that caused it. Moral concerns should be moderated appropriately.

      --
      Quack, quack.
    10. Re:It's not Really... by hilather · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know, wiping out a bot infected computer of any personal information or even all information might actually be doing that person a favour. It is better then having that information falling into the wrong hands. I could go either way on this, its the computer equivalent of vigilantes. But what happens when bot net controllers star to realize identity theft is a pretty lucrative business too?

    11. Re:It's not Really... by EncryptedSoldier · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LAWL! Yeah, that's a great idea. Lets go ringing doorbells! "Hi! Are you Mrs. Smith?" "Yes, I am. And who might you be?" "I'm John, and your computer is infected with a bot-net called Storm. You and millions of other users are infected and are constantly infecting other computers without your knowledge. I can fix your computer for $200, what do you say?" And even if that worked, it won't work for everyone. Too much time needed to fix it, too much money for it to be possible. Poisoning the botnet is the way to go.

    12. Re:It's not Really... by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, this is no moral question. "Poisoning" Storm is nothing but a good idea.
      Unless there's a problem with the command you send out and it completely wipes the end users hard drive and all their personal data or does something else destructive to the infected user. Just because their computer's being ordered around without their permission doesn't mean that it's right for you to start ordering it around without their permission too. Then there's the issue of liability if something goes wrong, etc.
      You're comparing a concentrated loss to a distributed loss. The correct assessment in that case is to sum up the losses on both sides. Say "poisoning" Storm results in 1000 users with wiped hard drives losing $10,000 worth of data and productivity (being very generous here). OTOH say letting Storm continue to operate results in 100 million users losing $1 each worth of productivity (spam) and data (compromised systems). That's a $10 million to $100 million balance in favor of poisoning Storm. Obviously the numbers here are made up and I honestly don't know if poisoning Storm is a good idea. But the point is that you just can't look at the losses on one side and say a course of action is unacceptable due to those losses. You have to compare the losses that might happen if you take action, to what losses will happen if you don't take action.

      It would be far better to monitor the botnet, find the computers involved and then help them clean their computer and prevent another infection. It's not as simple or efficient in the short term, but it's more moral and more effective in the long run.
      Do you maintain any computers for friends or family? No it won't be more effective in the long run. You help them clean their system, and they'll go right back to using it as always. In 6-12 months they'll call you back to help them clean it again. It's just an individual equivalent of a cost of doing business for them. Why should they bother to change their habits when they can pay you a hundred bucks or so every year to clean their system?

      In that light, losing all their data might be just what's needed to get them to take computer security seriously. However, I'd consider it a last resort since it's a punitive action rather than a preventative action. The long-term solution is to accept that casual users are going to run their computers like this, and to come up with mechanisms which blunt or dilute the impact of compromised systems. We're already doing this with anti-virus and anti-spyware software, as well as flaming Microsoft so they fix all the security holes in Windows. But it may or may not also involve poisoning botnets.

      Off the top of my head, I don't think you need to remove the botnet software. It's probably already secured the box against further infection. So all you need to do is scramble its communication and/or encryption so it doesn't/can't contact the bot master again. It could be as simple as changing one bit in an otherwise unused registry key. So "poisoning" a botnet may be much more benign than your worst case scenario.

    13. Re:It's not Really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unless there's a problem with the command you send out and it completely wipes the end users hard drive and all their personal data or does something else destructive to the infected user. And if I were a botnet author, I'd make absolutely sure that signs of such tampering would result in this (the DISABLE_ZOMBIE command in version 1.00 effects the WIPE_WHOLE_DRIVE command in update 1.01). Watch as the self-appointed saviour destroys the data (bla bla backups) on half a million computers world wide.

      The road to Hell...
    14. Re:It's not Really... by guruevi · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, it would be better to wipe their hard drive clean since then they would be directly impacted and see the loss caused by their stupidity. I already heard from users: yeah, I know I have a virus/trojan but it doesn't really do anything bad to my computer and that virus scanner makes my computer slower so I'll leave it there.

      Also, it would give us geeks some extra income and we would have the opportunity to load Ubuntu on their machines.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    15. Re:It's not Really... by MagdJTK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would argue that it is a computer owner's moral responsibility to make sure it's not doing any harm to others.

      If someone leaves their bag unattended at a train station, they should expect it to be destroyed in order to protect the public. If someone doesn't secure their PC and it becomes a hazard to others, shouldn't it be taken out too, by any means?

    16. Re:It's not Really... by Toandeaf · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mod points are not supposed to be used as "I agree".

    17. Re:It's not Really... by ohtani · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since when would saying something along the lines of "del infectedprogram.exe" be the same as "format c:"?

      --
      Pancakes. Oh I blew it.
    18. Re:It's not Really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is it wrong to do something to an out of control car rolling down a hill on fire towards a school full of people? This is a lot like a computer being part of a botnet. It is possible you could cause some damage to the car which is not yours by directing it out of the way, but if you don't something bad will certainly happen.

    19. Re:It's not Really... by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Your version of Microsoft XP has expired. Please buy a version of Microsoft Vista at your nearest authorized Microsoft dealer. If your computer does not support Vista you will be required to upgrade your computer.

      Thank you for supporting Microsoft".

      How's that?

    20. Re:It's not Really... by graphicsguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Who, other than a NATO-type international task force, would have the resources to reach out to those 40k users and help them clean their machines? If it's easy to detect the traffic to/from a botnet computer, they should be cut off by their ISP. The ISP can then offer them both instructions and to sell them PC cleaning as a service before allowing them to re-activate their connection.
    21. Re:It's not Really... by rocketPack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Should I not be held (somewhat) responsible if my unprotected gun is used in a crime? A computer with an internet connection has inherent risks, it's the users responsibility to secure and protect their own goods against damage, as well as malicious uses.

      If your computer is damaged in an effort to mitigate a large-scale botnet causing massive infrastructure problems and costing people money, then perhaps you could at least learn something from the process.

      I don't feel sympathy for their (speculated, potential) loss/damage, I feel pity for their ignorance. My dad always told me not to use tools without understanding how to use them properly and safely, there's no reason this logic can't apply to computers.

    22. Re:It's not Really... by idontgno · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, It's the botnet equivalent of counter-espionage. Really one for the good guys here.

      Well, possibly, but I think the moral conundrum isn't about attacking the botnet itself, but about the owners of the computers the botnet is unwittingly hosted on. All this "poisoning" activity affects the zombied PCs, after all.

      To use a (non-car) analogy: Germany invaded Belgium in WWII. That was morally bad. Later, the allies counter-invaded Belgium. That was morally good. But the battles involved in both invasions weren't particularly great for Belgians.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    23. Re:It's not Really... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 3, Funny

      And, can you picture the reaction of a Christian grandmother when her computer flashes the BSD devil at her?

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    24. Re:It's not Really... by Esc7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the wording here should be that poisoning the botnet would be the MORAL thing to do (Stopping the botnet is a good thing for all!) But it would not be the ETHICAL thing to do (Respecting people's privacy is the rule that we hold to).

      And in all dilemmas between morals and ethics the "right" thing to do must be weighed very carefully, there are no hard and fast rules that can be applied carte-blanche.

    25. Re:It's not Really... by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It's not particularly illegitimate to use them in that fashion, though. It's a matter of allocating limited resources, really. While I'll mod up posts I disagree with, but are insightful, if there are no posts I agree with available... I'd rather spend those mod points giving karma to people I agree with. Is it fair? Not entirely, but with only 5 or 10 points, there's only so much good you can do.


      The real moderation bias which is a cause for concern is modding with negative mods as a substitute for "disagree". That's bullshit, and there's no excuse for it.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    26. Re:It's not Really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Due to technical realities actively commanding a person's PC without permission may be the only way to counter these bot nets. If you fail to secure your system properly and ISPs are unwilling to block these comprimised systems then the law should allow it. If you suffer data loss then that was no different then damage caused by fire fighters trying to stop a fire from spreading.

    27. Re:It's not Really... by Hadlock · · Score: 2, Informative

      In many states you can be sued for improperly providing CPR. In fact, it happens quite a lot.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    28. Re:It's not Really... by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "It would be far better to monitor the botnet, find the computers involved and then help them clean their computer and prevent another infection. It's not as simple or efficient in the short term, but it's more moral and more effective in the long run."

      It would also be prohibitively complex and expensive. The idea that morality obligates us to do things that are wildly unlikely to work is questionable.

      Consider "help them clean their computer and prevent another infection" for what it REALLY means. That can be anything from a complete reinstall of the OS and all apps to replacing the computer with a more secure (and securED) OS because the original machine isn't suitable. There is no reasonable guarantee afterwards that the machine won't get 0wn3 again by the same or a new threat.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    29. Re:It's not Really... by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "So there really isn't a risk, in this case, of executing maleficent code or overwriting large portions of anything."

      That was also the line of thinking by Robbert Morris when he released "the great worm" back in 1988. We know how that turned out. There is ALWAYS some risk.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    30. Re:It's not Really... by PRMan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the paper presented at the conference

      http://www.usenix.org/event/leet08/tech/full_papers/holz/holz_html/

      mentions that the fracturing attack does not work. The Storm botnet currently only 2 things.

      1. It sends spam e-mails if it receives a file in a spam template format with another file containing a list of addresses.

      2. It commits a denial-of-service attack against a host if it receives a different templated file.

      What the researchers are proposing is to become a sender and to send out floods of blank files faster than the actual operators can send out their real files. As a result, the hosts are too busy downloading the 2200 phony files to get around to the 1 real one.

      The time it takes for all the network nodes to get around to the real file eliminates the power of the botnet, reducing its effectiveness to that of a few machines even if it contains tens of thousands.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    31. Re:It's not Really... by ruin20 · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they're changing the key. Essentially you're decoupling the node. Everything is there, it's just the password for that particular node of the botnet is reset. That doesn't change the fact that the ability to execute malicious code is still there and if anyone tracked the keys that were used to overwrite that of the botnets, they could set up their own network.

      --
      Oh honey look... How cute... an angry slashdotter!
    32. Re:It's not Really... by ruin20 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We typically consider distributed loss less harmful than concentrated loss. We call means for turning concentrated loss into distributed loss insurance. You run the same calculation on that and I'm pretty sure you'll find that if favors scrapping insurance rather than keeping it. Oh and you could say the same with crime and taxes for law enforcement. Or social security. There's a price paid in human or emotional capital associated with concentrated loss. People usually are willing to pay to prevent that.

      --
      Oh honey look... How cute... an angry slashdotter!
    33. Re:It's not Really... by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Funny

      Since your /. ID is under the millions, and you aren't new here, then you should know that nobody on /. Reads The Fucking Articles.

    34. Re:It's not Really... by geekboy642 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can be sued for anything. Being sued for something doesn't mean that act is: illegal, immoral, unethical, or mean.

      That said, many many jurisdictions in the United States have a so-called "Good Samaritan" law. This is a law that protects you from criminal charges and--depending on the state--lawsuits. For instance, the law in Texas is quite broad and protects anyone who acts in good faith from any civil damages. On the other hand, California's law is much more strict, and protects only licensed EMTs, Doctors, Nurses, etc. at the actual scene of an emergency.

      Know the law in your state! http://www.cprinstructor.com/legal.htm

      --
      Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
    35. Re:It's not Really... by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Note that you said unprotected gun. I'll assume that you meant to imply that if you give your gun to some schmo and he uses it for evil then you should be responsible.

      What the bad guys are doing(to use your gun analogy) is breaking into your house, finding your firearm and picking its trigger lock, then loading it with their own magazine and ammo and then using it for evil. Would that be your fault? No. Now envision the same scenario except that you left your door open and the perp walked right through it. It still wouldn't be your fault, and you wouldn't be criminally charged as long as you had no idea that the perp was going to use your gun. You may, however, be sued for negligence.

    36. Re:It's not Really... by moxley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I understand what you're saying, but I am not sure I agree in full.

      There is no question that biased moderations occur - this is a large part of why meta-moderation is important - it is a way to "moderate the moderations."

      Certainly I am sure that even when people are being responsible that personal opinions can come into play. I am sure we all may have made blunders in this way before.

      "INSIGHTFUL" is supposed to mean exactly that, that the comment is insightful, interesting is supposed to mean interesting, etc.

      If people are truly abusive as a pattern, the meta moderation system should catch them. Labelling comments as "Agree" or "Disagree" has no relative value because such comments are so subjective and (other than turning an issue into a popularity contest) doesn't serve the community but providing useful feedback that can be used to determine who is elligable to moderate, etc.

    37. Re:It's not Really... by Sancho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think that it's feasible to identify people who are infected and help them clean their computers--at least, not for these researchers. Also, there's no patch for human gullibility--so what's to say that the person won't get infected all over again?

      While I think that poisoning Storm is a gray area, I don't think that these researchers are going to be able to lead the charge to clean up end-users PCs.

    38. Re:It's not Really... by khallow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're comparing a concentrated loss to a distributed loss.

      One ugly thing malicious software can do is a "retaliation" strategy (a cooler name is welcome). If you try to destroy or render it ineffective, then it attempts to do the same to the computer that it's on. If I can't have your computer, then you can't have it either. Maybe tit for tat. So if the user stops trying to fix things, then the bot stops retaliating. This would be interesting on a collective level since the bot network might start destroying data, if it detects poisoning attempts.

    39. Re:It's not Really... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2, Informative

      How do you propose to stop stupid users from manually opening malware, just by giving them a new OS?

      By making data clearly different from executables? I mean, how about "The attachment you are trying to open is NOT a movie/picture/sound/etc. It is a program that has unlimited access to your machine."

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    40. Re:It's not Really... by Bryansix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry but while this idea looks good on paper it is bullshit in real life. Most people with home Internet service have more then one computer on their network. Then you have business customers who have 5-100 computers on their network. They can't just walk up to the infected computer and take it offline because they don't know which one it is. Most Anti-Virus programs can't fully detect things like the storm worm and some even get eaten alive by it. A much better thing would be an automated service that just emails the customer to notify them of the problem so they can take action.

      I say all this because I'm tracking a botnet right now and it's a pain in the ass. The last thing I need to for my Internet to go off. This would take down our phones as well since we have hosted VOIP and would banckrupt our company. I don't think an ISP wants that lawsuit on it's hands. I already have Trend Micro's Client/Server security agent installed on all of the computers here. Still the problem persists.

    41. Re:It's not Really... by Sancho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you think about the terms used:
      Informative means providing information. In the context of Slashdot, it should be information pertaining to the topic. This is not highly subjective, until you start talking about tangents.

      Interesting is highly subjective. What's interesting to one person may be flat out boring to another. It's probably a bad moderation, but it's always going to be biased.

      Insightful is somewhere between the two. Realistically, it ought to be reserved for times when a poster comes up with new and unique information--an insight, if you will--into the current thread.

      I don't think there's really a place for "I agree" or "I disagree" moderation. If you disagree, rebut the post. If you agree, post an agreement that adds to the discussion or just keep on reading. Leave agreement and disagreement to the slums of Digg.

    42. Re:It's not Really... by Sancho · · Score: 2, Funny

      And years of training will cause the users to just click "Yes" so that they can see their naked picture of Natalie Portman petrified in hot grits.

      The damage has already been done.

    43. Re:It's not Really... by overkill1024 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think 2^20 or 1,048,576 is a much better cutoff. One million is just an arbitrary number gained from the use of base 10.

    44. Re:It's not Really... by Eighty7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can be sued for anything. Being sued for something doesn't mean that act is: illegal, immoral, unethical, or mean.

      I think his point was that they can sue you and they can win. Are there any good samaritan laws for hacking into someone's computer? Rather the opposite, i think.
    45. Re:It's not Really... by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I like dogs, and would never hurt one for no reason. But I'd still kill a rabid one, especially if I thought it was about to hurt someone else. Finding its owner, and thoughtfully explaining the history and mitigation strategies related to rabies - as the dog is chewing some kid's arm off, or killing someone else's pet - might feel more politically correct, but it's absurd, too. Poisoning the botnet is a good thing.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    46. Re:It's not Really... by logicpaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you think the Confederate states would have been better liberated, on under control of the U.S.? That's the point.

  2. Fair Play by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I submit that it's inherently fair and perfectly ethical to disrupt those who invade and steal from others. Even if the theft is one of compute cycles. Usually, we call those who disrupt invaders and thieves "heroes."

    --
    Invenio via vel creo
  3. Add free article. by AltGrendel · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

  4. Who is liable in the event of retaliation? by Tanman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ok, so here's a fun question: Lets say the botnet creators get pissed off and send out a code change that makes one of the standard commands change to be something like, oh, "wipe hard drive." The botnet creators then use different commands, but the researchers come along and issue the old command, thus wiping the users' hard drives.

    Are the researchers liable since they technically issued the offending command while logged in as a remote user without the owner's permission?

    1. Re:Who is liable in the event of retaliation? by drrck · · Score: 5, Informative

      TFA states that they are changing the hash values that the bots use to talk to one another. They aren't issuing commands, they're interrupting the communication of the bots.

    2. Re:Who is liable in the event of retaliation? by WK2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought of that too. It might be a good way for the botnet operators to keep security researchers of their backs. Fortunately, the botnet operators don't want to damage the computers any more than the security researchers do. Less, in fact, because the botnet operators think they "own" said computer.

      --
      Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
  5. Actually Reading the Article by Kiralan · · Score: 4, Informative

    To the ones worried about the ethics, at least in this case: What the researchers did, in a sense, is change the 'name' and/or 'password' the bot uses to call the bot master and authenticate itself. In short, they removed the ability of the 'bot to get more commands.

    --
    V for Vendetta: People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
  6. Armageddon by spleen_blender · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The war. IT BEGINS.


    Seriously I'm personally excited by the fact that this essentially seems to offer a great draw to people with security skills to try being offensive where most of their efforts would be used defensively before.

  7. Public Key Cryptography and Message Signing. by CodeBuster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I predict that the botnet authors will respond with the following counter-measures:

    1) Command messages sent to the botnet by the operator will employ public key cryptography and message signing so that bots can determine real commands from headquarters (i.e. the bot net operator) from fake ones.

    2) The bots themselves will use encryption to communicate amongst themselves and employ secret handshakes once the encrypted channel has been established to detect imposters. It would not be difficult to arrange for the botnet to automatically coordinate and begin punative attacks against hosts which attempt to inject false commands into the botnet.

    1. Re:Public Key Cryptography and Message Signing. by Uncle+Focker · · Score: 3, Informative

      2) The bots themselves will use encryption to communicate amongst themselves They already do that now. That's one of the major issues with tracking down the whole extent of the botnet.
    2. Re:Public Key Cryptography and Message Signing. by el_flynn · · Score: 2, Funny

      And I would like to add my prediction: the botnet will implement captchas or kittens to detect the fake bots.

      --
      The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
    3. Re:Public Key Cryptography and Message Signing. by Captain+Spam · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, if I'm not mistaken, TFA claims that the researchers are using those exact vectors to do their counterattacks. As in, they mess with the encryption key so that any data that comes in from the controllers or other bots will be reported as bogus due to the controller/bot keys not matching. This, in a large way, renders the bot harmless, as it will now ignore all orders, expecting something signed by a key that will never arrive.

      It's honestly a clever way to pull it off, though it does open the door to a malicious someone planting a legitimate key to someone else's commands, assuming it's as easy as the researchers seem to indicate to plant a bogus one. Or re-attacking the machine to put a Storm key back in.

      --
      Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
    4. Re:Public Key Cryptography and Message Signing. by querist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For your first point (1), there are some issues:

      The encryption itself will only be partly effective, since the bot needs to have the decryption key available, it would simply be a matter of analysis to locate the key. This would allow researchers to intercept messages headed to the bots.

      Messages to the Command and Control will still be protected if public-key crypto is used.

      The signatures will not be able to be faked, so your approach is correct in that it would prevent the researchers from injecting commands.

      And for point (2):

      The bots can use PKI to talk among themselves, but because each bot will have its own keys (and how will they negotiate keys to encrypt?) the process should be at least observable at a much deeper level unless the programmers are very careful to have considered a man-in-the-middle attack and, for example, used signed keys. This would prevent forgery of signatures, but would still allow the researchers to intercept any communications for a bot which the researchers can control. A small percentage, but in a lab this could allow the researchers to decode at least some of the "Secret Handshakes" used, those being the ones for bot to bot communication.

      Communication TO the Command and Control, however, would remain inaccessible.

      However, public key encryption is notoriously hard on the CPU, requiring many more cycles when compared to a similar (equal protection from brute force attack) symmetric algorithm.

      I guess your approach will work partially, but enough to make life difficult for "the good guys".

    5. Re:Public Key Cryptography and Message Signing. by CodeBuster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      it would simply be a matter of analysis to locate the key. Allow me to be more clear: the key stored in the bot code would be the public key of the botnet operator so even if the researches found it it would not help them to sign false messages. For that they would need the private key which, of course, would be retained by the botnet operator and never distributed. If the correct signature cannot be forged without the private key then the command messages would be safe, even if analysis recovered the public key from the bot binary.

      Messages to the Command and Control will still be protected if public-key crypto is used...The signatures will not be able to be faked, so your approach is correct in that it would prevent the researchers from injecting commands. Right and right again. I should have been more clear about the public key issue in the message signing part of the original post.

      The bots can use PKI to talk among themselves, but because each bot will have its own keys (and how will they negotiate keys to encrypt?)

      The diffie-hellman key exchange algorithm does not require PKI to work, although the addition of PKI can make it more secure. If PKI is not employed as part of the key exchange then it is vulnerable to man-in-the-middle (MITM is usually difficult to do in practice over TCP/IP due to timing and network latency issues among other difficulties).

      the process should be at least observable at a much deeper level unless the programmers are very careful to have considered a man-in-the-middle attack and, for example, used signed keys PKI between bot instances is impractical. There are too many instances (on the order of hundreds of thousands at least) and how would they securely store their individual private keys and distribute and forward all of their public keys? They could use naive Diffie-Hellman, but not PKI for inter bot communications. I agree that this would be vulnerable to analysis in a controlled environment.

      This would prevent forgery of signatures, but would still allow the researchers to intercept any communications for a bot which the researchers can control. A small percentage, but in a lab this could allow the researchers to decode at least some of the "Secret Handshakes" used, those being the ones for bot to bot communication. Right, I agree. Although it might be somewhat cumbersome to set up the controlled environment. You would need at least two (2) bots in the sandbox network that can be induced to communicate with each other with a third host performing the MITM and analyzing the secret handshakes (which occur after the secure connection is established via Diffie-Hellman).

      Communication TO the Command and Control, however, would remain inaccessible. Right, and this probably how the really important operations are executed anyway, under the command and control of the botnet operator.

      However, public key encryption is notoriously hard on the CPU, requiring many more cycles when compared to a similar (equal protection from brute force attack) symmetric algorithm. Right and the PKI for the command and control protocol would have to use big keys because if they are cracked then the entire command and control network is cracked (probably 2048 bit RSA would be used). The private key for message signing on the command and control protocol would be an attractive target to say the least. As for slowing down the machine that probably wouldn't tip of f the naive user/owner since they will probably chalk it up to "their computer is old" or "well, that is Windows for you".

      I guess your approach will work partially, but enough to make life difficult for "the good guys". That is all that the botnet author really needs to do, make it hard enough so that people don't want to bother with attempting to disrupt the bot network.
    6. Re:Public Key Cryptography and Message Signing. by ymgve · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a good thing the storm "encryption" is just plain XOR with a 40-bit string that hasn't changed in half a year, then.

  8. Re:I blame the ISP's by drrck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ISPs aren't going to turn people off as Joe Sixpack has no idea what a bot is or where spam comes from. They would probably switch providers, as it's a lot easier than cleaning your computer.

  9. when you are fighting people by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    who have no regard for morals or ethics, scrupulously conforming to morals and ethics hampers your ability to fight

    the danger of course, is not to become what you fight by doing that

    so you slightly bend the rules, all the time, without making the sort of flat out trangression of major moral issues that constitutes what criminals do

    but you will still get flak from people who expect moral certitude from those who fight criminals, and criticize you like no tomorrow, all the while completely ignoring and not criticizing the criminals themselves

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  10. Reaction to this paper? by el_flynn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since the researchers have already published their work on the infiltration process, I'm sure by the time you read this piece of news the botnet owners and/or authors have already put an action plan in place to mitigate, or at least lessen, the effect.

    Plus, if you read their published work, they readily admit that they are always one step behind the worm, and have to react whenever the attacker changes his tactics. The work mentions that "the attacker can easily change [a function of the Stormnet communication technique]... and then we need to analyze [our] binary again."

    Criminals usually work faster than the good guys because they have more to lose.

    --
    The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
  11. The terminology is confused by Yurka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Computers in a botnet are not "peoples' PCs" anymore. They are not under control of the owner. This needs to be clarified again and again. When you see a Borg drone, you (try to) kill it. And Picard was right - you'll be doing it a favor.

    --
    I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
    1. Re:The terminology is confused by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course they are, don't be stupid.
      There is a program running on their computer.
        You also assume they don't want it there.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  12. How active is storm currently? by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've seen previous allegations that Leo Kuvayev has ties to the storm botnet. It of course is known that Mr. Kuvayev is a prolific spammer.

    However, there hasn't been as much spam from Mr. Kuvayev - either in my own boxes, or mentioned recently on line. This leaves me to wonder if perhaps he isn't utilizing it as much as he used to?

    While certainly the botnet has been used for more than just spam propagation, and Kuvayev has sent spam to a lot more people that just me, I still can't help but wonder if it either isn't as large or as active as it once was.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:How active is storm currently? by ahabswhale · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a shadow of its former self. Microsoft actually took them out, believe it or not. The Msft malicious software removal tool has taken care of it and the maintainers of the storm botnet got tired of dealing with it and let it go. See here for more info: http://blogs.technet.com/antimalware/archive/2007/09/20/storm-drain.aspx

      So it's great that they came up with this but too bad it's pointless, at least for Storm. However, I'm sure they'll continue patting themselves on the back for fixing something that was already fixed.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
  13. Fools! by Kingrames · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nuke the sites from orbit, it's the only way to be sure!

    --
    If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
  14. Re:SPY v. (nothing) by witherstaff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    bad bad idea

    I'd love to be required to have antivirus software on my linux/FreeBSD/Solaris machines. If you don't have a locked down box those systems can be just as bad as a botnet windows machine.

    Or requiring comcast to have a rootkit on every machine you have to ensure that it's not infected. Sony computers would love that!

  15. Re:SPY v. (nothing) by HikingStick · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just because they put locks on car doors doesn't mean everyone uses them. Then there's the issue of thos little magentic key holders in the driver's side wheel well...

    --
    I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
  16. Wow, Godwin in 2 posts... by PRMan · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's got to be some sort of record...

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    1. Re:Wow, Godwin in 2 posts... by Daimanta · · Score: 2, Funny

      Scrap an I in WWII and youa re all set for a non Godwin post ;)

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
  17. It was morally "good" -- from our perspective... by CFD339 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ..because we won. History is written by the victors of course. Don't misunderstand me -- nothing could make me defend the German army's actions (or those of many of its citizens at the time). I'm only saying that had we lost that war, a different history might look upon the "re-invasion" of Belgium as a war crime.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  18. legal angle by habusnake · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://www.yjolt.org/7/ A little old, but this is an article I wrote on related legal issues-- legality of striking back including at zombies.

  19. tit for tat by AgentPhunk · · Score: 2, Funny

    What is this 'tat' that you refer to, and where can I exchange it for this first thing?

    1. Re:tit for tat by khallow · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you don't know, then you're too young to find out. ;-)