British "X-files" Released to Public

Smivs writes "Britain's Ministry of Defence has just released files regarding investigations into UFO sightings between 1978 to 1987. Over the next three or four years, 160 files will be handed over to the National Archives. The first group of eight files, one of which is more than 450 pages long, is available today. The Guardian newspaper details many of the events in question, some interesting and many just bizarre. A similar release of UFO files by France's national space agency last year attracted more than 220,000 users on its first day, causing it to crash. To avoid such problems, the National Archives is using an external hosting company which can add extra capacity as needed to handle the web traffic."

Comments

UFO Expert

[SimonGhent]

This was reported on BBC Radio 4 this morning. They had an interview with a "UFO Expert" who suggested that they had only released the files that conained no real evidence and that they were holding back much more than they had released.

He, and his colleagues, knew all along that this is what would happen. Apparently.

The interviewer tried to get him to say "the truth is out there" but he wouldn't bite!

Re:UFO Expert

[hansraj]

Paranoid Guy (PG), Other dude (OD):

PG: The Government is out to get me man! They have traps everywhere for me.
OD: Wtf? Why would they spend millions or billions after you. You are just_another_dude!
PG: Exactly! They are all a bunch of crazies I tell ya. Why would they do that otherwise?
OD: ...

Re:UFO Expert

[Anonymous Coward]

Ad hominem attacks are no way to win an argument. It also makes you look petty and weak. (Not trying to win an argument. Just pointing out basic rules of argumentation along with an example).

Re:UFO Expert

[tristian_was_here]

Well I was once abducted by alien babes from planet hot and they had their way with me for science on their own planet.

The sad thing is I woke up lying in my own bed

Re:UFO Expert

[MBGMorden]

Heh. It's often thought that many alien abduction stories (which are very different from UFO's, but anyways . . .) stem from ASP, or Awareness during Sleep Paralysis. It's essentially a waking dream where you can't move but you can hallucinate things (you eyes see the real world but you mind, still in a dreamstate, can superimpose a dream over the real world).

Some people see aliens (a common modern thing), many see ghosts. When researching this (I suffer from this disorder myself) I found out that in earlier times many people would see a succubus or demon raping them.

These episodes can be lucid if you work at it (I can lucid dream but I've never been able to have a lucid ASP episode), so you could actually make your alien babe abduction fantasy come true ;).

Re:UFO Expert

[Digital Vomit]

Great. Yet another way I can fail to have sex.

Re:UFO Expert

[sentientbeing]

I dont buy it. Theyre just showing us pictures of aliens because they dont want to tell us what they REALLY found.

Re:UFO Expert

[TheWanderingHermit]

So that means we won't find out what really happened at the Battle of Canary Wharf after all?

Re:UFO Expert

[moderatorrater]

Did you at least have breakfast or coffee waiting for you?

Re:UFO Expert

[lm317t]

I have been able to have these Awareness during Sleep Paralysis (which then after a while often spawn Out of Body Dreams), since I can remember. As a test when I was a teenager I shuffled a deck of cards and put five random ones in an open box on top of a high cabinet. Every time I checked when I was in these OBD's I wasnt even close to observing what was actually there, but it sure felt like I was right up until I physiacally checked!

Since then I have been skeptical of so called OBE's and alien visitations/abductions.

Re:UFO Expert

[grahamd0]

Heh. It's often thought that many alien abduction stories (which are very different from UFO's, but anyways . . .) stem from ASP, or Awareness during Sleep Paralysis. It's essentially a waking dream where you can't move but you can hallucinate things (you eyes see the real world but you mind, still in a dreamstate, can superimpose a dream over the real world).

So this is totally off-topic, but I had no idea that was an actual documented condition. That used to happen to me almost every night. Not the hallucinations, but being aware while I was asleep. I'd sometimes have paranoid feelings while it was going on, but I never saw or heard things that weren't there.

Still happens occasionally, but it's pretty rare these days.

Re:UFO Expert

[Necrotica]

Well I was once abducted by alien babes from planet hot and they had their way with me for science on their own planet.

The sad thing is I woke up lying in my own bed Better than waking up in a tent.

Re:UFO Expert

[Anonymous Coward]

That's very true. I once had this myself, and you do get some creepy feeling of being watched and impending doom. Sometimes it also appears as if your mind isn't 'cleared between frames' (colors wash out, for example red LED lights from a radio get really weird, and a beeping sound sometimes becomes a continuous loud tone). I was truly terrified the first time it happened, but after you effectively regain the ability to move and wake up, it kind of fades away like a dream does. I wonder why some people don't accept it as 'dreamlike' after it's over.

Re:UFO Expert

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

That's not an ad hominem. It's essentially an ad absurdum or appeal to ridicule. The argument is essentially, "If the government is tracking you in an extreme manner, and you're just an average Joe, the government would be wasting a lot of resources to track everyone like that, wouldn't they?"

Decent argument if well presented, actually. An ad hominem would be something like, "You're nuts, but our viewers want to watch me make fun of you. So would you like a clown nose to make it easier on me?"

Re:UFO Expert

[Anonymous Coward]

Having been forced to code in ASP and ASP.NET many times, I've never been able to make it lucid, either. It has seemed like a bad, waking dream MANY times however.

Re:UFO Expert

[bakura121]

I used to experience ASP about once a year when I was a young child, although I didn't know what it was until you just now explained it.

I had this dream, but I was awake, and the furniture (chairs mostly) were closing in on my bed (I assumed getting ready to attack). They also blocked my bedroom door, so I couldn't get up and leave.

I was definitely awake during this dream state and was yelling for my parents to come save me. This happened once a year like clockwork, and happened about 3-4 times. It scared the hell out of me.

Re:UFO Expert

[Anonymous Coward]

Ask the expert if he has a black suit and a black car. One nutjob was going around to alleged UFO sightings and playing at being an MIB. He got a trafic ticket and someone found out who he was.

Re:UFO Expert

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, I've had it happen pretty consistently since I was around 14 or 15. it must have something to do with changes in brain chemistry during the teenage years, as I used to have them almost nightly or every second night. I still get them (usually I become fully lucid when it happens) when I seriously abuse my sleeping schedule, but they've become much much more infrequent.

Re:UFO Expert

[GrahamCox]

The sad thing is I woke up lying in my own bed

Phew! Bed. I thought you were going to say something else...

Re:UFO Expert

[Juiblex]

These disorders (ASP, ADD) may be connected with the medication that parents from USA give to their childern (i.e., Ritalin, etc.). These disorders are very uncommon in South America and the rest of the world.

Re:UFO Expert

[lm317t]

These disorders (ASP, ADD) may be connected with the medication that parents from USA give to their childern (i.e., Ritalin, etc.). These disorders are very uncommon in South America and the rest of the world. ASP (Awareness during Sleep Paralysis) has nothing to do with ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). And where do you get these stats? ASP is pretty uncommon period.

Also, ASP is not a disorder but an event. It is basically becoming conscious while simultaneously maintaining a sleep stage, and also having the ability to recall said event (the most important factor).

Lucid Dreaming and OBE's (I call them OBD's Out of body dreams) is closely related to this and has actually been practiced by Buddhist monks for centuries. Its all about knowing how to maintain awareness through different stages of sleep.

Awareness during these stages of consciousness are amazing experiences when you learn what you can do.

But don't let facts like these get in the way of bashing the USA. That usually brings good karma here on slashdot.

British 'X-Files'?

[muellerr1]

I thought the British X-Files was called 'Torchwood'?

Re:British 'X-Files'?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the British X-Files was called 'Torchwood'?

You're confused. That's the British gay porn show.

Re:British 'X-Files'?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the British X-Files was called 'Torchwood'?

You're confused. That's the British gay porn show. How come you know so much about it?

Re:British 'X-Files'?

[moderatorrater]

Yeah, these declassified documents are nothing like the "X-Files", they're full of strange characters who believe they alone know the truth, strange stories that make very little sense, and the occasional humorous anecdote that doesn't quite fit with the others.

I forgot how I was going to make that point.

Re:British 'X-Files'?

[scrib]

"The Man" tricked us into watching "Torchwood" by claiming it was a "Doctor Who" spin-off. I suspect the BBC is short of toaster ovens since the tragic loss of Talkie Toaster.

Re:British 'X-Files'?

[elrous0]

What a minute, you mean Mulder in the American version WASN'T gay?

Awesome

[loafula]

lets hope the US follows suit

Re:Awesome

[robably]

The suit is a decoy. You need to follow the pyjamas.

Re:Awesome

[Tenebrousedge]

But then what would we do with all of these suddenly-identified flying objects? It'd put a huge dent in our UFO economy!

Re:Awesome

[oodaloop]

The AF came out a few years ago and admitted to spreading rumors about aliens in Roswell and other places to cover up their experimental aircraft projects. As an intelligence analyst with a top secret and above clearance (some of the classifications have names which are themselves classified) working in "the system", I'm pretty sure there's not much more. We tend to overclassify things just to be on the safe side, classify things out of habit, overestimate the importance of what we're doing, underestimate how much is already known, etc, but to suggest there's a conspiracy to cover up UFO sightings is ridiculous. You need an act of Congress to get the CIA and FBI to talk each other. What makes anyone think the US government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy?

Re:Awesome

[maxume]

The History Channel spends an inordinate amount of time on this sort of crap. Before I changed the channel, I once heard a guy ranting about how the Air Force had an officer who reported to Johnson about ufos and what a big conspiracy it was. My first thought was that of course they were keeping track of sightings of unidentified aircraft, they had aircraft that they wanted to remain unidentified. It was disappointing that they show didn't bother with that obvious angle.

Re:Awesome

[unity100]

The AF came out a few years ago and admitted to spreading rumors about aliens in Roswell and other places to cover up their experimental aircraft projects. perfect way to do disinformation.

let me do something similar :

i was the one who persuaded napoleon bonaparte to proclaim himself emperor and depose republic.

Re:Awesome

[oodaloop]

perfect way to do disinformation. Which is a good reason as to why they're not doing it. The AF just isn't that good at what it does that I'll believe they instituted a "perfect" disinformation campaign. I work with them, and I'm rather unimpressed. I mean, have you seen their commercials? Come on!

Re:Awesome

[Syberz]

Actually, it's the British that are following suit. The US declassified most of its UFO documentation years ago. Project Blue Book, Project Majestic, most of it is online in PDF format on the FBI and CIA websites. Archives of the documents have already been created, such as http://www.bluebookarchive.org/

Re:Awesome

[imstanny]

As an intelligence analyst with a top secret and above clearance (some of the classifications have names which are themselves classified) working in "the system", I'm pretty sure there's not much more. With all due respect, having Top Secret clearance doesn't automatically give you access to all Top Secret documents. You still have to have a 'need to know' authority to get access to certain files. So I can't really see how you can use that as evidence to your conjecture of there not being much more beyond what they released.

Re:Awesome

[Frosty Piss]

As an intelligence analyst with a top secret and above clearance (some of the classifications have names which are themselves classified) working in "the system", I'm pretty sure there's not much more.

This unfortunate disclosure will be discussed at your next clearance review.

Re:Awesome

[fracai]

The AF came out a few years ago and admitted to spreading rumors about aliens in Roswell and other places to cover up their experimental aircraft projects. {{Citation Needed}}

As an intelligence analyst with a top secret and above clearance (some of the classifications have names which are themselves classified) working in "the system", I'm pretty sure there's not much more. Then you're also aware that clearance isn't equal to having the password to "ze secret filez". There's also that whole "Need to Know" thing and your name is on the "Posts to Slashdot / Won't Get to Know" list.

What makes anyone think the US government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy? The same thing that makes people think the US Gov was sneaky enough to pull off the 9/11 attacks, but not enough to hide the mountains of evidence.


Wow, I fit a 9/11 reference in, is this the new Godwin?

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAIK Top Secret is the highest classification in the U.S. I suppose there could be "classified" classifications but that's a completely unprovable statement. Also it doesn't make sense. Without a common classification system how would you know that "super-duper-secret" clearance really exists and is allowed to know about your project, especially if your clearance is "ultra secret". There's a reason it's called "Top" secret.

Re:Awesome

[oodaloop]

{{Citation Needed}} And then we have...

The same thing that makes people think the US Gov was sneaky enough to pull off the 9/11 attacks, but not enough to hide the mountains of evidence. Without a citation. Yeah, apparently they really were that sneaky, because I haven't come across a molehill of evidence, let alone a mountain, let alone multiple mountains.

Re:Awesome

[geekoid]

MOst of the Roswell stuff in the mainstream was either taken out of context, or completly fabricated by Berlitz

In fact he is the father of all are major conspiracy theory. Bermuda triangle, Roswell, Philadelphia story and others.
Usually taking a grain of truth, or piece of a quote and then expounding on it.

Even though these are fictional books, quoted from them often circle within the conspiracy community.
The books are presented in a way as to give the appearance of not being fictional.

When analyzed even the actual 'facts' are wrong.
For example, what is known as the Roswell crash didn't happen near Roswell, it happen on a ranch near a town names Aurora 75 or so miles away from Roswell.

Re:Awesome

[compro01]

But then New Mexico's tourist industry will collapse!

Re:Awesome

[MrHanky]

Oh, come on, an "intelligence analyst with a top secret and above clearance" with a >1000000 /. uid? Not very likely.

On the other hand, that's exactly what they'd think, and they'd know that we knew, so you may just as well be a government spy. Well, I'm not saying anything.

Re:Awesome

[KavyBoy]

No, the codewords are commonly classified as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_Compartmented_Information#Access_to_Compartmented_Information

Re:Awesome

[kellyb9]

What makes anyone think the US government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy? I wish I could mod you up to +10 Insightful.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Compartmented information is what imstanny was talking about with "need to know". It's not a higher classification than "Top Secret".

Re:Awesome

[geekoid]

Correct. Top Secret is the highest classification.
You still ahve 'need to know'.
So If I am working with nuclear materials, that doesn't mean I get to know the security system at the white house or get to look at the latest test plane.

Yes, I have had that clearance, and yes I worked with nuclear materials.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

"You need an act of Congress to get the CIA and FBI to talk each other. What makes anyone think the US government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy?"

The book, "The Day After Roswell" describes a situation in which so few people are actually in possession of the material, that, from the public government's standpoint, there really is 'no alien material evidence'...because 99.9% of the gov is unaware of it.

Like any UFO book, it has its critics. But having read it, I did see how a slow leak of technology into the private sector, held secret by what motivates most top R&D corporations (profit), could be a useful way to disseminate the technology, without the government or public at large realizing where this little trickle of 'evidence' is coming from.

And like many takes on Roswell before it, it describes the rapid and total silencing of the small community and small cleanup crew that was involved in the crash. Back then, a good old rancher would shut up if the government asked him to, and 50 years later, many of the folks involved are now gone.

I can see it happening, but I'm not really convinced if it did happen or not.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

You need extremely compartmentalized projects, like the Manhattan project. 100K people and most of them did not know the purpose.

Same with this topic, just hear the witnesses..

Disclosure Project:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1166743665260900218

Willing to testify before Congress under oath (15 jail time if lying..) are:

http://www.disclosureproject.org/aboutexecsumm.htm

Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command, Lt., Col. Charles Brown: US Air Force (Ret.), "Dr. B", Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt: US Marine Corps, Maj. George A. Filer, III: US Air Force (Ret.), Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official, Larry Warren: US Air Force, Security Officer, Sgt. Clifford Stone: US Army, Master Sgt. Dan Morris: US Air Force, NRO Operative, A.H.: Boeing Aerospace Employee, Officer Alan Godfrey: British Police, Sgt. Karl Wolf: US Air Force, Ms. Donna Hare: NASA Employee, Mr. John Maynard: DIA Official, Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer, Glen Dennis: NM UFO Crash Witness, Sgt. Leonard Pretko: US Air Force, Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert, Dr. Paul Czysz: McDonnell Douglas Career Engineer, Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, John Callahan: FAA Head of Accidents and Investigations, Michael Smith: US Air Force Radar Controller, Franklin Carter: US Navy Radar Technician, Neil Daniels: United Airlines Pilot, Lt. Frederick Fox: US Navy Pilot, Captain Robert Salas: US Air Force, SAC Launch Controller, Prof. Robert Jacobs: US Air Force, Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy, James Kopf: US Navy Crypto Communications

Witness Testimony

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell: May 1998
Monsignor Corrado Balducci: September 2000

Radar and Pilot Cases
FAA Division Chief John Callahan
Sgt. Chuck Sorrells: US Air Force (ret.)
Mr. Michael W. Smith: US Air Force
Commander Graham Bethune: US Navy (ret.)
Mr. Enrique Kolbeck: Senior Air Traffic Controller,
Dr. Richard Haines
Mr. Franklin Carter: US Navy
Neil Daniels: Airline Pilot
Sgt. Robert Blazina (ret.)
Lieutenant Frederick Marshall Fox: US Navy (ret.)
Captain Massimo Poggi
Lt. Bob Walker: US Army
Mr. Don Bockelman: US Army

SAC/Nuke
Introduction
Captain Robert Salas
Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. US Air Force
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force (ret.)
Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.)
Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy
Mr. James Kopf: US Navy/ National Security Agency
Lieutenant Colonel Joe Wojtecki, US Air Force
Staff Sergeant Stoney Campbell: US Air Force

Government Insiders/ NASA/ Deep Insiders
Astronaut Gordon Cooper
Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command
Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown: US Air Force (ret.), October
Dr. Carol Rosin
ÃoeDr. B.Ã
Lance Corporal John Weygandt: U.S. Marine Corps,
Major A. Filer III: U.S. Air Force
Mr. Nick Pope: British Ministry Of Defense
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

You need extremely compartmentalized projects, like the Manhattan project. 100K people and most of them did not know the purpose.

Same with this topic, just hear the witnesses..

Disclosure Project:

Willing to testify before Congress under oath (15 jail time if lying..) are:

Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command, Lt., Col. Charles Brown: US Air Force (Ret.), "Dr. B", Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt: US Marine Corps, Maj. George A. Filer, III: US Air Force (Ret.), Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official, Larry Warren: US Air Force, Security Officer, Sgt. Clifford Stone: US Army, Master Sgt. Dan Morris: US Air Force, NRO Operative, A.H.: Boeing Aerospace Employee, Officer Alan Godfrey: British Police, Sgt. Karl Wolf: US Air Force, Ms. Donna Hare: NASA Employee, Mr. John Maynard: DIA Official, Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer, Glen Dennis: NM UFO Crash Witness, Sgt. Leonard Pretko: US Air Force, Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert, Dr. Paul Czysz: McDonnell Douglas Career Engineer, Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, John Callahan: FAA Head of Accidents and Investigations, Michael Smith: US Air Force Radar Controller, Franklin Carter: US Navy Radar Technician, Neil Daniels: United Airlines Pilot, Lt. Frederick Fox: US Navy Pilot, Captain Robert Salas: US Air Force, SAC Launch Controller, Prof. Robert Jacobs: US Air Force, Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy, James Kopf: US Navy Crypto Communications

Witness Testimony

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell: May 1998
Monsignor Corrado Balducci: September 2000

Radar and Pilot Cases
FAA Division Chief John Callahan
Sgt. Chuck Sorrells: US Air Force (ret.)
Mr. Michael W. Smith: US Air Force
Commander Graham Bethune: US Navy (ret.)
Mr. Enrique Kolbeck: Senior Air Traffic Controller,
Dr. Richard Haines
Mr. Franklin Carter: US Navy
Neil Daniels: Airline Pilot
Sgt. Robert Blazina (ret.)
Lieutenant Frederick Marshall Fox: US Navy (ret.)
Captain Massimo Poggi
Lt. Bob Walker: US Army
Mr. Don Bockelman: US Army

SAC/Nuke
Introduction
Captain Robert Salas
Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. US Air Force
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force (ret.)
Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.)
Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy
Mr. James Kopf: US Navy/ National Security Agency
Lieutenant Colonel Joe Wojtecki, US Air Force
Staff Sergeant Stoney Campbell: US Air Force

Government Insiders/ NASA/ Deep Insiders
Astronaut Gordon Cooper
Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command
Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown: US Air Force (ret.), October
Dr. Carol Rosin
ÃoeDr. B.Ã
Lance Corporal John Weygandt: U.S. Marine Corps,
Major A. Filer III: U.S. Air Force
Mr. Nick Pope: British Ministry Of Defense
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense
Security Officer Larry Warren: United States Air Force,
Captain Lori Rehfeldt
Sergeant Clifford Stone: United States Army
Major-General Vasi

Re:Awesome

[hxftw]

You need an act of Congress to get the CIA and FBI to talk each other.

Or aliens.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Joshua, is that you bragging about your security clearance again? You know that's against the rules...

Re:Awesome

[PopeRatzo]

What makes anyone think the US government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy?

You don't need competence so much as sufficient incentives for the media to look the other way. You might be surprised at how easy it is to marginalize the story of an important conspiracy and obfuscate it to the point that nobody gets a clear idea of what happened. Eventually, people get tired of hearing a bunch of bloggers writing about something and the whole thing disappears under the rug.

The scandal with the Bush Department of Justice, for example. This is a story of a conspiracy much bigger than Watergate, but a complicit and/or lazy media has so thoroughly failed to tell the story, and partisan talking heads like Rush Limbaugh have so twisted the issue that most people are just too overwhelmed to absorb it.

And there are at least a half-dozen conspiracies at least that big from the last eight years. People are so tired and absorbed by their personal experiences of crises like the economy or health care issue that they just don't care.

Let me give you an example. Nobody disputes the fact that George Bush went AWOL from his sweetheart assignment to the Alabama Air National Guard. But by dropping a phony document in the hands of an eager news organization (one of the last ones left at the time), they were able to throw up enough chuff that anytime people bring up the fact that a guy is president who committed such a serious offense against his country, they think "Dan Rather fucked up". Bush becomes president, Dan Rather's career is ruined, and all's well in America. How easy is it to cover up a conspiracy? That easy.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct. Top Secret is the highest classification.

that you are allowed to know about.

Re:Awesome

[oodaloop]

Sidestepping the Bush landmine for a moment, let's look at another conspiracy. The CIA and other intelligence agencies were clearly involved in a coverup after the Kennedy assassination. What was revealed after all those documents were declassified in the 90s was that the CIA et al were covering up their own incompetence in the Oswald investigation pre-assassination which was bungled every step of the way. Oswald was tracked extensively in the years leading up to the assassination, as he should have been, since he attempted to turn over classified information to the Soviets and attempted to revoke his American citizenship. But he also made a few remarks about killing the President, and if it got out that the CIA knew this and didn't do anything, it would look bad. That and they were running an illegal mail-opening operation on him. America's favorite conspiracy theory is really mostly a story of incompetence and its attempted coverup.

Before I believe any government conspiracy theory, I will believe it is simply covering up its incompetence. It's the simplest, most plausible explanation until I see overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes anyone think the US government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy? This is the flaw in all conspiracy theories. People are stupid, even their leaders. Conspiracies do exist, but either they do it in plain sight (ex: lie about WMDs in Iraq) or they get caught (ex: Iran-Contras).

Re:Awesome

[fracai]

{{Citation Needed}} And then we have...

The same thing that makes people think the US Gov was sneaky enough to pull off the 9/11 attacks, but not enough to hide the mountains of evidence. Without a citation. Yeah, apparently they really were that sneaky, because I haven't come across a molehill of evidence, let alone a mountain, let alone multiple mountains. I was never saying they WERE sneaky enough, in fact I was saying there's no evidence for it. I'm saying there's no evidence for any conspiracy, but that hasn't stopped people from claiming there was a conspiracy. My favorite are the claims that the lack of evidence is all the evidence they need to prove a conspiracy.

I still would like a reference for the Air Force claiming that they did spread rumors regarding aliens as a means of covering experimental programs.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

The US government is apparently capable of keeping things classified though.

Proof at last

[archammer2]

from TFA:

Other reports are more credible. At quarter past midnight on Christmas Day 1985, three police officers in Woking were surprised by a white light descending on the Horsell area.

Finally! Undeniable proof in the existance of Santa Claus! I knew it!

Re:Proof at last

[bostonsoxfan]

You're the only one who is going to RTFA. reading the (choice of for letter f words) article

Re:Proof at last

[jrumney]

They're about 90 years out, but it sounds very familiar. These days its more likely to be the Surrey Police Helicopter, but I'm not sure it was buzzing about in the middle of the night so much in 1985.

Re:Proof at last

[zobier]

You're the only one who is going to RTFA. reading the (choice of for letter f words) article reading the (face |fact |fade |fado |fads |fags |fail |fain |fair |fake |fall |falx |fame |fane |fang |fano |fans |fard |fare |farl |farm |faro |fart |fash |fast |fate |fats |faun |faux |fava |fave |fawn |fays |faze |feal |fear |feat |feck |feds |feed |feel |fees |feet |fehs |fell |felt |feme |fems |fend |fens |feod |fere |fern |fess |feta |fete |fets |feud |feus |fiar |fiat |fibs |fice |fico |fido |fids |fief |fife |figs |fila |file |fill |film |filo |fils |find |fine |fink |fino |fins |fire |firm |firn |firs |fisc |fish |fist |fits |five |fixt |fizz |flab |flag |flak |flam |flan |flap |flat |flaw |flax |flay |flea |fled |flee |flew |flex |fley |flic |flip |flit |floc |floe |flog |flop |flow |flub |flue |flus |flux |foal |foam |fobs |foci |foes |fogs |fogy |fohn |foil |foin |fold |folk |fond |fons |font |food |fool |foot |fops |fora |forb |ford |fore |fork |form |fort |foss |foul |four |fowl |foxy |foys |fozy |frae |frag |frap |frat |fray |free |fret |frig |frit |friz |froe |frog |from |frow |frug |fubs |fuci |fuck |fuds |fuel |fugs |fugu |fuji |full |fume |fumy |fund |funk |funs |furl |furs |fury |fuse |fuss |futz |fuze |fuzz |fyce |fyke) article

You've got me, which one is it?

Don't forget

[ArchieBunker]

That UFO does not automatically make it alien.

Re:Don't forget

[the_rev_matt]

Jimmy Carter was on the Skeptics Guide podcast not long ago and they brought up the UFO incident, as he is often cited by the conspiracy theorists as 'proof' that aliens are among us and the government is covering it up. No, I can't explain their logic. Carter was unaware that he'd been coopted in this manner and quite forcefully noted that what he saw was indeed a UFO because he couldn't identify what it was, making it unidentified. He was at the same time quite sure that it was likely not an alien craft of any sort. It's one of the few times I've heard someone make the point that because you don't know what it is, then by definition it's an unidentified flying object. A conclusion that has no relation whatsoever to the *nature* of the object (e.g. alien, human).

Re:Don't forget

[Ecuador]

Even if it is an alien though, it could still be a legal alien. Now if we had illegal aliens flying around without Visas, I guess that would be bad and would warrant further analysis.

Re:Don't forget

[magical_mystery_meat]

That would be impossible, because Visa is everywhere you want to be

Re:Don't forget

[Jay L]

It's one of the few times I've heard someone make the point that because you don't know what it is, then by definition it's an unidentified flying object

Exactly; it's a semantic cop-out. "UFO" holds two, related meanings, which they love to conflate...

1. Unidentified Flying Object: Something that's flying that wasn't identified.
2. Unidentified Flying Object: An alien spacecraft kept secret through government conspiracies.

The UFO believers really, really want to talk about #2. But if you point out just how unlikely that is, they'll fall back on definition #1: Hey, it was flying, right? And it wasn't identified, right?

I believe I have come up with a solution to that. I am going to follow up on every single UFO report. I will ask to see the pictures, or to hear a description. And then, the conversation goes like this:

Roswellian: It was disc-shaped, hundreds of feet long, with one purple light. And nobody could identify it.
Me: Oh, that. That's "Bob".
Roswellian: Bob?
Me: Yes. I know just the craft you speak of, and it's called "Bob".
Roswellian:
Me: So it's not really unidentified anymore. It's just a flying object named Bob.
Roswellian: But.. but okay, what about this report from last week? Gray humanoids, with egg-shaped heads, descended from a tube-shaped--
Me: Now that one, we call "Bob".
Roswellian: I thought the saucer was called Bob?
Me: Yes, that too.
Roswellian: They're both... They're both "Bob"?
Me: It's a very common name.
Roswellian:
Me: Anything else?
Roswellian: Well.. there was this time that I was driving, and--
Me: Irving.
Roswellian: IRVING??
Me: Well, actually, we've nicknamed it "Bob". Irving's kind of a dorky name.
Roswellian: "Bob."
Me: Naturally.

Re:Don't forget

[slarrg]

Of course, having smacked a rabbit with a rowboat oar, Carter had to come to terms with the fact that something he thinks is attacking him might be perfectly normal to someone else.

If you believe in alien spaceships on Earth...

[A beautiful mind]

...you exhibit a serious lack of imagination. Human history is but a leaf in the wind compared to the ocean of time and space. All of the purported alien encounters are so similar to what we experience on Earth so that it's not even funny. It's like religion, overly antrophomorphic.

Re:If you believe in alien spaceships on Earth...

[Genady]

What are you saying? Religion is really behind all the probing of young boys? We already knew that.

Re:If you believe in alien spaceships on Earth...

[uniquename72]

That's exactly what they want us to think -- can't believe you fell for it.

Re:If you believe in alien spaceships on Earth...

[Trojan35]

There's plenty of non-similar ones. You probably just laughed at those though.

Crash contagion

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever made those UFOs crash are in the files and are making the archive servers crash. Scary shit.

Re:Crash contagion

[Anonymous Coward]

im in ur archi... Ah, nevermind.

Link

[felipekk]

This is the page with the files: http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

French "X-Files" also released, about a year ago

[bipbop]

This follows a similar release by the French in March 2007, which can be found here: http://www.cnes-geipan.fr/

Well fuck me silly....

[neokushan]

The truth really IS out there...and in an easy to read digital format, too!

Re:Well fuck me silly....

[Anonymous Coward]

Or.. The Truth Is Out There. Search on Piratebay.

But all the good stuff is blacked out so what is..

[Joe The Dragon]

But all the good stuff is blacked out so what is the point?

NASA and its 50 year search?

[chfriley]

The real question though is, what "object" NASA is announcing it has found after more than a 50 year search? I don't think it is related, to UFOs, but imagine if it was!

MEDIA ADVISORY : M08-089
  NASA to Announce Success of Long Galactic Hunt
WASHINGTON -- NASA has scheduled a media teleconference Wednesday, May 14, at 1 p.m. EDT, to announce the discovery of an object in our Galaxy astronomers have been hunting for more than 50 years. This finding was made by combining data from NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory with ground-based observations.

To participate in the teleconference, reporters must contact the Chandra Press Office at 617-496-7998 or e-mail mwatzke@cfa.harvard.edu. Live audio of the teleconference will be streamed online at:http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/may/HQ_M08089_Chandra_Advisory.html

Highlight

[Gat0r30y]

a number of people leaving a Tunbridge Wells pub one night reported seeing a strange craft "with red and green" lights, according to the released documents. Asked by police where the object seemed to be traveling, the pub crawlers said it appeared to be heading for London's Gatwick Airport. It didn't take a scientist to figure out it was a commercial plane making a routine approach.

English discipline?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, are those "X-Files" made of English SM porn at its finest, or is it homemade crap again?

Re:NASA and its 50 year search?

[maxume]

Probably a black hole.

parent poster is right

[unity100]

however he is right in that, the government is probably gonna release stuff bit by bit. ie, when public gets used to the idea of 'possibility' of extraterrestrials, more will be coming. so op is right in that they didnt release solid evidence yet.

Re:parent poster is right

[Jonny_eh]

UFO nuts: Release the secret document that prove aliens are here!
(UFO documents are released)
UFO nuts: Those documents don't offer the evidence we wanted! Therefore, there must be more documents somewhere that do! Release more documents!
(rinse, repeat)

This cycle has been going on for 50 years. If there was anything to this, some country somewhere would have released documents proving something by now.

And just because the government investigated UFO sightings, it doesn't mean aliens are visiting. The government investigated ESP too, and it's still hogwash.

Re:parent poster is right

[unity100]

aaaaah.

in 50s and 60s, people who claimed that they saw ufos with a solid argument would get visited by intelligence agencies and told to shut up, and if they didnt comply either suddenly disappeared from public life, or extremely discredited to the extent that they would need to move and hide. if there isnt anything important about ufo things like skeptics like you argue, no intelligence agency would need to go that far.

nowadays in the last 3 years, we are seeing an increasing level of 'allowance' for ufo talks. first it started with main outlets like cnn showing ufo clips, whereas they never did before, and then started the government agencies - first mexican air force, then japanese government official drops a hint. then some documents are released in france, then in uk now.

can you see a pattern ?

Re:parent poster is right

[vertinox]

when public gets used to the idea of 'possibility' of extraterrestrials, more will be coming. so op is right in that they didnt release solid evidence yet.

Thats a lame excuse... I think the general public wouldn't care unless it turns out that the aliens use humans for food or reality TV.

Re:parent poster is right

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh you have as much evidence against UFOs and ESP as the "nuts" have for it. Just because you don't have any personal experience doesn't mean you know something that they don't.

Re:parent poster is right

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. The pattern leads you to being one of the ufo nuts.

Re:parent poster is right

[Llywelyn]

I'm not sure I'd say that about ESP.

Jessica Utts, one of the statisticians involved in the government projects, has said that:

I believe that it would be wasteful of valuable resources to continue to look for proof. No one who has examined all of the data across laboratories, taken as a collective whole, has been able to suggest methodological or statistical problems to explain the ever-increasing and consistent results to date. Resources should be directed to the pertinent questions about how this ability works. I am confident that the questions are no more elusive than any other questions in science dealing with small to medium sized effects, and that if appropriate resources are targeted to appropriate questions, we can have answers within the next decade.

Re:parent poster is right

[peragrin]

a UFO is just that an Unidentified flying object.

Just because you can't identify it doesn't mean someone else can't. In the 50's and 60's UFO's were mostly experimental aircraft that the USA didn't want anyone to know about. Things like the prototype for the SR-71, various technology demostrators. Most of them have been declassified and the list of one-off planes built by the US government is long. To date No UFO evidence has been recorded with modern camera's Only old style black & white, or camera's with dubious quality of film. Even the Camera film that is supposed to be from the space shuttle is of a grainy quality that is considered sub standard by today's soccer parents.

Show me High res film or images and I will believe until then you really don't have anything.

it's like the film of lock ness, or bigfoot. Why hasn't a modern camera caught something yet?

Re:parent poster is right

[Anonymous Coward]

The government investigated ESP too, and it's still hogwash.

I knew yesterday that you were going to say that. I thought about pre-posting, but you wouldn't understand, and I might have missed the 3:15pm Interstellar Express to Rigel.

Re:parent poster is right

[peragrin]

then you are naive. Religions force people to believe that god created Man in his image and we are the center of the universe because of it.

that right there is 2 billion people who would rather attack and kill the aliens to prove they are still better than anyone else.

Re:parent poster is right

[geekoid]

Laughable.
If we found out there were extraterrestrials there isn't going to be a 'freak out' or panic.

Anymore then there was a freak out and public panic when Native Americans were discovered.

There is no solid evidence. Think about it. Going public would be a great way to get billions and billions of dollars into a space race and a great excuse to militarize space. The military would have a base on Mars by now.

Re:parent poster is right

[Paradise Pete]

told to shut up, and if they didnt comply either suddenly disappeared from public life

For example? I'm not saying that didn't happen, just that it would be helpful to include some supporting evidence, as it's a surprising claim (to me, at least.)

Re:parent poster is right

[vslashg]

it's like the film of lock ness, or bigfoot. Why hasn't a modern camera caught something yet?

Gosh, you're right! Global warming must have killed Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster!

Re:parent poster is right

[Paradise Pete]

Meh you have as much evidence against UFOs and ESP as the "nuts" have for it.

What sort of evidence would that be?

Re:parent poster is right

[Anonymous Coward]

"...and if they didnt comply either suddenly disappeared from public life"

Do we actually know this happened much? It happens in the movies sure, but is there really much evidence of people who won't genuinely insane "disappearing"?

Re:parent poster is right

[gartogg]

The problem with saying that people get their ideas about what the government does from movies is that the underlying assumption is that the government doesn't get them from the same place.

Re:parent poster is right

[suggsjc]

Why hasn't a modern camera caught something yet?

Because the aliens are actually smart enough to only appear:

• moments when only antiquated cameras are available
• redneck idiots are the only witnesses
• bunch of people are stoned...so they think they are tripping out
• I'm around so I can flash them with that stick thing from Men in Black
• the coast is clear, so they can talk to Archer Quinn about perpetual motion

Re:parent poster is right

[rkanodia]

I am suddenly embarrassed to be a Davis graduate. Well I mean, I've always been embarrassed to be a Davis graduate, but particularly so right now.

I might suggest to Ms. Utts that, if there really are 'ever-increasing and consistent results', she could easily get funding from James Randi, who has a cool million just waiting especially for her!

Re:parent poster is right

[Kelbear]

Article from May 13th regarding Catholicism and aliens:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080513/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_aliens

Re:parent poster is right

[Llywelyn]

What Randi does has absolutely zero bearing on actual scientific research. He is not a scientist, he is an entertainer, and what scientists look for is totally separate from what Randi is looking for.

Scientists are interested in questions such as probability of a Type I error across multiple experiments and meta-analysis, Randi is interested in something flashy.

Re:parent poster is right

[SanityInAnarchy]

then you are naive. Religions force people to believe that god created Man in his image and we are the center of the universe because of it. And science pretty much forces religion to back the fuck off, every time -- see Galileo. Sure, it takes time, but eventually, religion adapts so that it can still theoretically be right, even when things it used to hold as core beliefs are completely disproven.

Do you really think that there are enough religious nuts in control of enough of the world who, say, haven't seen Star Trek? For that matter, do you honestly think that it's easier to hide "the truth" from the world than to simply declare that we're made in the image of God, and these aliens aren't?

Re:parent poster is right

[geekoid]

He's a skeptic first.
He also has a team of very bright people that work with him and set of the scientific tests.

Considering the number of Dowsers tested, I would suspect that it is more then 'something flashy'.

Re:parent poster is right

[rinoid]

So... you're saying all the government and military leaders are in cahoots with the Cylon skin jobs, or that they're actually skin jobs themselves?

Re:parent poster is right

[SimonGhent]

If the British government had evidence of aliens right now, they would release it. Would have just saved them 2.7 bn GBP!

"Pay no attention to the 10p tax rate - look - shiny aliens"

Re:parent poster is right

[rinoid]

Methinks the poster has a serious misunderstanding of film quality versus video or "modern" cameras.

Re:parent poster is right

[Anonymous Coward]

I only have listings for some other fields, partially related:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Suppression#Statistics

http://home.comcast.net/~typezero/Links.htm

Re:parent poster is right

[KenSeymour]

I think the worst example of this is the Heaven's Gate Cult.

These people believed that a spaceship companion to the Hale-Bopp comet had arrived to take them to the "next level". They returned a telescope they had purchased when it failed to show the spaceship. Obviously the telescope was defective. ;)

They all killed themselves in order to get on board the spaceship. Apparently, it never occurred to them to question their own beliefs.

Re:parent poster is right

[NeutronCowboy]

Got a source for any of your claims? I've read UFO sources from as far back as the 50s, and none of them were "disappeared", or were visited by anyone other than a few curious reporters.

Re:parent poster is right

[smaddox]

or extremely discredited to the extent that they would need to move and hide ^Exactly.

But really - there have been multiple people who have admitted to voluntarily faking UFO sightings. Remember when people thought crop circles where signs from aliens?

If we have proof that a large number of UFO sightings are fake, isn't it more likely that the rest are also fake, rather than that we just haven't proved any of them real yet?

Re:parent poster is right

[Kintar1900]

it's like the film of lock ness, or bigfoot. Why hasn't a modern camera caught something yet?

Isn't it obvious? The camera manufacturers are in it with the government! They use the ultra-high-tech computer technology we've stolen from the alien crash sites to embed into the cameras these very small, highly adaptable AIs that modify the images when they're taken so that we don't ever get solid photographic evidence!

Re:parent poster is right

[PopeRatzo]

Randi is a sad little man who cannot get the world's attention, even with a million dollars (a million non-existent dollars, by the way).

The only way we're going to start seeing more evidence of UFO's is if the cooked-up "threat" of "terrorists" fails to scare a sufficient number of people to allow worldwide tyranny. If that happens, you can bet that the authoritarians who want to be in charge will suddenly find "evidence" of dangerous UFOs which require the complete surrender of our personal rights in order to keep us "safe".

I never thought I'd see a day when cocked-up little would-be dictators like our current President and Vice-President would so blatantly manipulate the fears of the American people just to get a sweeter deal for themselves and their powerful friends. If there was no other way, no doubt they'd use little green men from outer space to scare Americans into giving up their freedom. Hell, they don't even have to bother, probably. 8 years of executive orders, signing statements, fascistic Supreme Court justices and entrenched loyalists in every government bureaucracy will most likely do the trick by themselves, especially in the unlikely event of a dotty old tool like John McCain getting the benefit of another "November Surprise" like the one that put GWB in power in 2000. Four more years of "more of the same" will put us in a hole we may never climb out of.

Re:parent poster is right

[Chris Burke]

If we found out there were extraterrestrials there isn't going to be a 'freak out' or panic.

Of course there would be, that'd be nothing like finding out that there were natives on a distant land. But, as you note...

There is no solid evidence. Think about it. Going public would be a great way to get billions and billions of dollars into a space race and a great excuse to militarize space. The military would have a base on Mars by now.

Exactly, and how better than to get the funding to militarize space than by having everyone freaked out over aliens? The whole notion that a panic is what the government would try to avoid is what doesn't hold up as a valid conspiracy theory. Have we learned nothing from the government's reaction to 9/11 or the WMD in Iraq? They'd love to have a new "threat" like that, and they aren't even that picky about the evidence.

Well, wait, maybe they are trying to cover up the aliens because they've talked to the aliens and they're actually totally peacenik hippies that emit psychic waves of love and empathy, so the government has convinced the aliens to hide themselves because we couldn't handle them... In reality they're just waiting until they figure out a way to make the hippy-beings seem like a threat. Okay, now we're back in viable conspiracy theory land. ;)

Re:parent poster is right

[unity100]

excuse me, major outlets including cnn showed ufos videotaped by mexican airforce just 1-1.5 years ago. were you in a cave ?

Re:parent poster is right

[unity100]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=nq4&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=government+harassment+of+ufo+witnesses&spell=1 choose anything that you may see as reliable

Re:parent poster is right

[toriver]

There are more modern observations of UFOs, the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot/Yetis than of God (currently at 0 apart from ancient legends).

"You do the math", said the local atheist.

Re:parent poster is right

[unity100]

there are still crop circles that contain radiation that is unnatural. its definite that a lot of crop circles are fake. but not all.

Re:parent poster is right

[Cat Panic]

Thanks, posts like this are one of the reasons I read Slashdot in the first place.

Re:parent poster is right

[MojoStan]

Randi is a sad little man who cannot get the world's attention, even with a million dollars (a million non-existent dollars, by the way).

So is this (PDF file) and this fake? From the Million Dollar Challenge FAQ:

• 3.1 I heard the prize money doesn't really exist and that it's all just a scam.
  • The short answer: The money is real.

    The medium-length answer: The money is held in the form of immediately negotiable bonds held by Goldman Sachs, a highly respected investment firm. Anyone can verify that the money exists by requesting the information in writing from the JREF. They will in turn forward you the most recent account statement from Goldman Sachs.

    The long answer: The JREF is a 'tax exempt' organization, so they are required by law to have a level of financial transparency. That means that the public can request things like an annual report and copies of JREF's 990 (the tax return non-profits file). Go to http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/esearch.php (search for Randi, 2005 is here.) to look up JREF's 990. Contained within these types of documents is enough information to verify that the organization does indeed have special assets in a reserved account to cover the prize, should it ever be won. The contract between the claimant and JREF is binding enough that the JREF must pay the prize if someone wins it. This is a published, legal obligation, not just a casual offer. We have no choice in the matter. As a savvy applicant, all you need to do is verify that the organization has the funds to cover the prize. Also, if JREF were not able to hold up its end of the bargain, the IRS would investigate and pull the JREF's tax exempt status. It would mean severe penalties for the JREF, and Randi himself would also be personally liable and subject to potential incarceration. Rest assured: The money is there.

    Long answer, continued: The JREF prize fund is maintained in a way that is similar to an endowment fund. Non-profits often create reserves of assets called endowments to build up enough money to take care of the organization in the case of bad financial times, or to save up money for a project down the road, like building a new facility or starting a large new program that would require a lot of capital. Endowment funds are held in a separate Goldman Sachs account designated, "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account." This prevents the JREF from accidentally spending the prize money. It is never a good idea to just let large sums of money sit in a savings account for years and years, so most non-profits invest their endowment funds. The way they invest it is really not important. JREF invests in bonds, which is fine. If a claimant wins the prize, it must be awarded within ten days, as per the Challenge rules and the legally binding contract entered into when the application was signed.

    I know you are going to ask, "What if the bonds cannot be easily liquidated?" If the JREF did not pay a winning claimant in a reasonable amount of time, we would be open to a lawsuit for breach of contract. The claimant will be paid. The JREF states that the funds are held in immediately negotiable bonds so that a claimant can feel at ease about the ability of the JREF to pay. The fact that the JREF will do so is going above and beyond the requirements of the law and the generally accepted practices of good, responsible non-profits. It is an enormous act of good faith on JREF's part. The million dollars exist. Arguments to the contrary are utterly pointless, and they will not be entertained by the JRE

Re:parent poster is right

[Anonymous Coward]

All "Nuts" are like that..No Evidence..Nah we need to just look closer. Case and Point..Bush invading Iraq

Re:parent poster is right

[peragrin]

Show me some high quality images of UFO's.

researchers and others are flooding the northwest with motion activated camera's capable of lasting a month or so in the woods. To date not one new image of bigfoot has been found.

Bigfoot/yeti's are even one I can see happening too. small enough that the local area could support a small population. Loch Ness/Champ/etc are far too big to feed off of the area's food supply, let alone have a family of several hundred for a semi stable population.

Re:parent poster is right

[blugu64]

Whooa, thats deep man.

Re:parent poster is right

[azzuth]

If we found out there were extraterrestrials there isn't going to be a 'freak out' or panic.
Anymore then there was a freak out and public panic when Native Americans were discovered. For one, the Native American's weren't exactly walking talking Bananas, they were humans just like the explorers who found them.

Also the Native American's hardly caused the explorer's to question their most fundamental beliefs. I'm not sure what is hard about this to comprehend, but there is a much different scale of discovery to finding other humans, versus finding completely alternative intelligent life.

Re:parent poster is right

[rkanodia]

James Randi doesn't require that you explain the cause of the effect, just that you demonstrate its existence. If there really is a statistically significant effect, that's enough to get the money, which the claimant could then spend on investigating the causes of the effect.

Re:parent poster is right

[turgid]

I thought they saw Jesus in a slice of toast a few years back?

Re:But all the good stuff is blacked out so what i

[oodaloop]

The "good stuff" seems to be mostly names of British officials, which are typically redacted from released documents. Either that, or they mistakenly used the black highlighter again.

Obligatory mention

[Anonymous Coward]

Disclosure Project:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1166743665260900218

http://www.disclosureproject.org/aboutexecsumm.htm

Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command, Lt., Col. Charles Brown: US Air Force (Ret.), "Dr. B", Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt: US Marine Corps, Maj. George A. Filer, III: US Air Force (Ret.), Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official, Larry Warren: US Air Force, Security Officer, Sgt. Clifford Stone: US Army, Master Sgt. Dan Morris: US Air Force, NRO Operative, A.H.: Boeing Aerospace Employee, Officer Alan Godfrey: British Police, Sgt. Karl Wolf: US Air Force, Ms. Donna Hare: NASA Employee, Mr. John Maynard: DIA Official, Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer, Glen Dennis: NM UFO Crash Witness, Sgt. Leonard Pretko: US Air Force, Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert, Dr. Paul Czysz: McDonnell Douglas Career Engineer, Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, John Callahan: FAA Head of Accidents and Investigations, Michael Smith: US Air Force Radar Controller, Franklin Carter: US Navy Radar Technician, Neil Daniels: United Airlines Pilot, Lt. Frederick Fox: US Navy Pilot, Captain Robert Salas: US Air Force, SAC Launch Controller, Prof. Robert Jacobs: US Air Force, Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy, James Kopf: US Navy Crypto Communications

Witness Testimony

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell: May 1998
Monsignor Corrado Balducci: September 2000

Radar and Pilot Cases
FAA Division Chief John Callahan
Sgt. Chuck Sorrells: US Air Force (ret.)
Mr. Michael W. Smith: US Air Force
Commander Graham Bethune: US Navy (ret.)
Mr. Enrique Kolbeck: Senior Air Traffic Controller,
Dr. Richard Haines
Mr. Franklin Carter: US Navy
Neil Daniels: Airline Pilot
Sgt. Robert Blazina (ret.)
Lieutenant Frederick Marshall Fox: US Navy (ret.)
Captain Massimo Poggi
Lt. Bob Walker: US Army
Mr. Don Bockelman: US Army

SAC/Nuke
Introduction
Captain Robert Salas
Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. US Air Force
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force (ret.)
Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.)
Harry Allen Jordan: US Navy
Mr. James Kopf: US Navy/ National Security Agency
Lieutenant Colonel Joe Wojtecki, US Air Force
Staff Sergeant Stoney Campbell: US Air Force

Government Insiders/ NASA/ Deep Insiders
Astronaut Gordon Cooper
Merle Shane McDow: US Navy Atlantic Command
Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown: US Air Force (ret.), October
Dr. Carol Rosin
âoeDr. B.â
Lance Corporal John Weygandt: U.S. Marine Corps,
Major A. Filer III: U.S. Air Force
Mr. Nick Pope: British Ministry Of Defense
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense
Security Officer Larry Warren: United States Air Force,
Captain Lori Rehfeldt
Sergeant Clifford Stone: United States Army
Major-General Vasily Alexeyev: Russian Air Force,
Master Sergeant Dan Morris: US Air Force/NRO Operative (ret.)
Mr. Don Phillips: Lockheed Skunkworks, USAF, and CIA Contractor
Captain Bill Uhouse: US Marine Corps (ret.)
Lieutenant Colonel John Williams: US Air Force (ret.)
Mr. Don Johnson
A.H.: Boeing Aerospace, December 2000
British Police Officer Alan Godfrey
Mr. Gordon

Scully

[Anonymous Coward]

They tried to find a British alternative to Dana Scully, but sadly the best they came up with was Carol Vorderman.

Re:NASA and its 50 year search?

[chfriley]

Remanent of most recent super-nova in our galaxy :-) From what they've said so far.

Re:Overly Anthropomorphic

[FurtiveGlancer]

There is a good reason that these odd experiences seem to you to be overly anthropomorphic. We are anthropomorphic creatures. We relate or describe things that are completely outside our experience with terms we can understand. We, reasonably, compare the strange and unusual with things that are within our experience, philisophy or religion. Hence, "little green men" vice .8 to .9 meter tall, semi-translucent green exterior membrane, bilaterally symmetric organisms.

Read the Revelation of John and count the times you read "like" or "as" in the descriptions. Think of what terms someone of that era might employ to describe a helicopter or a tank.

Evidence of non-existence

[mangu]

They had an interview with a "UFO Expert" who suggested that they had only released the files that contained no real evidence and that they were holding back much more than they had released.

Everything regarding UFOs, paranormal effects, and such, is like that. They always claim that something is being hidden, and how can you possibly prove that some file is not being hidden somewhere?

I once tried to counteract that, asking for an UFO expert to give me the very best case they had for UFOs. He answered with a case that is cited in the Encyclopaedia Britannica as being one of the most reliable cases for the existence of UFOs: in August 13, 1956 RAF jets were sent after some objects that were detected by radar, coming from above the Soviet Union at very high speed. Those objects disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean. My answer: that sighting coincides exactly with the Perseid meteor shower. Those UFOs had the same behavior that would be expected from a meteoroid. And that's one of the "best established and most puzzling" UFO sightings, according to the Britannica.

To sum up, we cannot prove that "real evidence" isn't being hidden somewhere. But if one of the most respected publications in the world cannot give us one single example of an UFO sighting that cannot be trivially explained with five minutes of research, then I really cannot believe that any stronger evidence exists.
 

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[vertinox]

They always claim that something is being hidden, and how can you possibly prove that some file is not being hidden somewhere?

Regardless, the biggest reason there are all these conspiracy theories that the Governments aren't forthcoming with their secrets. Personally, I believe this is the worst thing possible in a democratic society in a peace time environment.

Why is there a need to have secrets such as the Nevada bases? Why can't the military be forthcoming about projects 40 years ago? Maybe its not aliens... Maybe they are torturing people or building weapons of mass destruction without us knowing... That and a big fat blank check from congress with no liability.

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[Belial6]

So there we have it. The UFO folks are just unrealistically optimistic about our government. Seems like as good an explanation as anything else I have heard.

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[AloC83]

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." ~ DELOS B. McKOWN

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[Translation Error]

Regardless, the biggest reason there are all these conspiracy theories that the Governments aren't forthcoming with their secrets. Personally, I believe this is the worst thing possible in a democratic society in a peace time environment.

It seems to me that the biggest reason is, rather, human nature. Something in people's brains, some moreso than others, makes them wonder just who's behind things, what people in power are keeping from us, and what isn't really random chance. Even if a government is completely open, we all know there would be some things that would still be kept secret.

Of course, when a government really is acting shady and not being accountable, that makes it easier for the general public to believe their are secret projects and suppression of information, but certain people will always come up with consipiracy theories, because that's just the way their minds work.

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[NotBornYesterday]

Regardless, the biggest reason there are all these conspiracy theories that the Governments aren't forthcoming with their secrets. In security, some things need to be kept a secret. The government is no different. Heck, my computer is no different. If a bunch of UFOlogists insisted that my /etc/shadow file somehow contained top secret proof of UFO existence, I would decline to share it with them.

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I'm sure there are plenty of ufo's maybe no little green men but unidentified flying object why wouldn't there be?

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[4D6963]

But if one of the most respected publications in the world cannot give us one single example of an UFO sighting that cannot be trivially explained with five minutes of research, then I really cannot believe that any stronger evidence exists.

So what, that was just a poorly chosen example? Try debunking that one. I love it when people go around acting like no UFO report cannot be easily explained. There's a LOT of reports from various air forces and pilots that are very reliable and unexplainable. And I used to believe for a while that these could be ultra-secret American or Russian projects but none of what we might suspect could be held accountable for reports dating for 50 years ago. So what else can we turn to when we deem reports sufficiently reliable and that we can't think of any reasonable explanation for them?

Re:Evidence of non-existence

[jalefkowit]

Regardless, the biggest reason there are all these conspiracy theories that the Governments aren't forthcoming with their secrets. Personally, I believe this is the worst thing possible in a democratic society in a peace time environment.

But they fixed that already! Now we're constantly at "war" with somebody, so there's no danger of a "peace time environment" ever breaking out again. Problem solved!

seen them

[joe 155]

I've actually seen a fair few of the files in the archieves about the ufos. Whilst there is always the chance that they just dont release the good stuff (elistism and your conspiracy theories, I'm looking at you...). But I honestly believe that our government genuinely doesn't know anything about them and\or doesn't think they exist. There is some pretty classified things in the archieves (like wheb civil servants were admitting that they may have broken international law) so I dont really buy the argument that they censor stuff that goes in there

Fucktard

[Anonymous Coward]

"The very fact that these documents are being released shows that there isn't a cover-up. It's a good move on the part of the Ministry of Defence to demonstrate what they know, which doesn't amount to much, on this subject,"

Are they trying to make people believe in conspiracies? When a government official makes such patently false statements to prove their point, it's like they want to look like they're hiding something.

For anyone who doesn't get it, all they could supposedly be doing is releasing the non-important stuff.

UFOs in Ancient Times: The Book of Ezekiel?

[Lumenary7204]

(This is *not* meant as flame bait; this is just a comparison between "events" reported in an ancient document and "events" reported today.)

If the events depicted in the opening lines of the Book of Ezekiel in the Bible happened "today," it would very likely be described as a "UFO encounter"; people have been reporting events like this since the beginning of Antiquity:

Ezikel 1:13-27 [** Especially verses 15-19 **]

13) In the middle of* the living creatures there was something that looked like burning coals of fire, like torches moving to and fro among the living creatures; the fire was bright, and lightning issued from the fire. 14) The living creatures darted to and fro, like a flash of lightning.

15) As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the earth beside the living creatures, one for each of the four of them.* 16) As for the appearance of the wheels and their construction: their appearance was like the gleaming of beryl; and the four had the same form, their construction being something like a wheel within a wheel. 17) When they moved, they moved in any of the four directions without veering as they moved. 18) Their rims were tall and awesome, for the rims of all four were full of eyes all round. 19) When the living creatures moved, the wheels moved beside them; and when the living creatures rose from the earth, the wheels rose. 20) Wherever the spirit would go, they went, and the wheels rose along with them; for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 21) When they moved, the others moved; when they stopped, the others stopped; and when they rose from the earth, the wheels rose along with them; for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

22) Over the heads of the living creatures there was something like a dome, shining like crystal,* spread out above their heads. 23) Under the dome their wings were stretched out straight, one towards another; and each of the creatures had two wings covering its body. 24) When they moved, I heard the sound of their wings like the sound of mighty waters, like the thunder of the Almighty,* a sound of tumult like the sound of an army; when they stopped, they let down their wings. 25) And there came a voice from above the dome over their heads; when they stopped, they let down their wings.

26) And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire;* and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form. 27) Upwards from what appeared like the loins I saw something like gleaming amber, something that looked like fire enclosed all round; and downwards from what looked like the loins I saw something that looked like fire, and there was a splendour all round.

Quoted from [http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Ezekiel]

Re:UFOs in Ancient Times: The Book of Ezekiel?

[zobier]

27) Upwards from what appeared like the loins I saw something like gleaming amber, something that looked like fire enclosed all round; and downwards from what looked like the loins I saw something that looked like fire, and there was a splendour all round. I really don't want to know about some splendiferous gleaming amber 'something' rising from some dudes loins, and he should see a doctor about the fire.

On another note:

16) As for the appearance of the wheels and their construction: their appearance was like the gleaming of beryl; and the four had the same form, their construction being something like a wheel within a wheel. 17) When they moved, they moved in any of the four directions without veering as they moved. 18) Their rims were tall and awesome, for the rims of all four were full of eyes all round. I concur with the sibling poster; that seems like something straight out of a car accessory ad.

Interesting.

[trillex]

It would be interesting to see if there are any similar sightings between the French and the British files.

Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[TheNarrator]

If there are Aliens visiting us nothing is actually going to change. They are like naturalists going out into some remote jungle (our little corner of the solar system) to take pictures of monkeys (us). The monkeys see a pickup truck the naturalist is driving, something they could never possibly be able to explain. The naturalist comes up to them befriends them and then leaves. The other monkeys come back and say that the large white ape does not exist. Even if they all see the large white ape and the interesting craft she drives. So what?
Maybe some of the religious monkey elders would get upset but that's about it. It's not like the monkeys are going to suddenly figure out how to turn sticks and branches into a car and drive out of the forest and start wearing suits and ties and drinking $4 lattes at Starbucks.

Re:Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[fetushead]

Exactly...wait...What?

Re:Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[geekoid]

Except we are not monkeys, and once we see it can be done, we will figure it out.

however we are not going to go screaming in the night panicking.

A few might, but then they will realize there isn't anyplace to run to! ;)

I would wager there will be some tragic cult deaths.

Re:Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[Flunitrazepam]

We are hominoids, as are chimps and gorilla.

Just because we have evolved to the point of having larger brains than other animals doesn't mean we've crossed some kind of line beyond which all is conceivable.

We are still evolving, and it seems plausible that there are things that we just don't yet have the cognitive hardware to grasp, doesn't it? Aren't we smart enough to know that we aren't that smart?

Re:Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[geekoid]

OOK.

If we don't have the cognitive ability to grasp it, then we can't even see it.

If we see a saucer hovering, then we will know it is possible. It might be beyond are grasp to immediatly figure it out, but we will.

This does assume it's a verifiable object.
I am just saying we have the ability and knowledge to move on with out needing much more then observation.

Re:Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well maybe, but that's the wuss way to look at it.

Re:Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[dbcad7]

What if our physical properties prevent it ?.. What if the absolute limit of our intelligence, and the artificial intelligence we create, cannot figure it out because there are laws and properties we are unexposed to in our universe ?.. What if we can only exist in this universe but the others can exist in multiple universes simultaneously ? What if the ability to exist like that is beyond our capability even if we understand it ?

Re:Aliens visting us would change nothing...

[GrahamCox]

's not like the monkeys are going to suddenly figure out how to turn sticks and branches into a car and drive out of the forest and start wearing suits and ties and drinking $4 lattes at Starbucks.

Ah, you say that, but they did, didn't they?

Re:But all the good stuff is blacked out so what i

[Joe The Dragon]

Yes the very names of the people who know the truth.

I still think it's just baby jebus...

[fetushead]

...warning us to stay away from pork and logic.

UFOs are real

[GeorgeMonroy]

UFO: Unindentified Flying Object - This could be anything that is flying that you cannot identify. I see what I believe to be airplanes all of the time and I cannot identify them so they are in fact UFOs to me

Aliens: have not yet been proven

They are not the same thing.

Take off the tinfoil hat

[elrous0]

Hey Mulder, here's a scoop. They weren't trying to cover up aliens, they were covering up their secret spy aircraft. Why do you think most of these "UFO cover-ups" involved strange craft spotted near air force bases at the height of the Cold War? Project Blue Book wasn't about little green men, it was about making sure no one had gotten a good look at their latest prototype stealth planes and also checking to see if any hillbillies might have actually spotted any Soviet spy planes in the area.

No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[sentientbeing]

Look im no boaster,

But you aint SEEN my ass, honey.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[olclops]

Actually, read the book by the head of Project Blue Book, Edward J. Ruppelt, "The Report on Flying Saucers", available free online, here. You'll come away with a very different picture.

This book is a shockingly candid and measured look at the UFO evidence through the 1950's, doesn't engage in speculation and is very much worth a read.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[olclops]

Oops. It's called "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects." Link is good, though.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[Chris Burke]

No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it.

One of the greatest moments in the history of TV occurred on a show I can't even remember now, though it was probably an old episode of the Daily Show.

The show featured three different and independent UFO crazies who all claimed to have had close contact with aliens, and it brought them together to tell their tales.

One of the guys claimed that he had been abducted and raped on a repeated basis. Not probed, raped, because the aliens intent was to impregnate him with their alien eggs, and I guess the human rectum was a viable implantation spot.

One of the other crazies, who if I recall claimed that she had seen aliens wandering around the woods by her house, chimed in to say something along the lines of "That's just silly; nobody is gonna travel half way across the galaxy just to have anal sex with you."

How do you know you're a true UFO crazy? When another UFO crazy tells you off for being too damn crazy! Oh man I about died that day; and it would have been okay because my life was complete.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[unity100]

its a perfect pretense for covering up anything. see how plausible it is, you jumped on it so hard that it hurt.

No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it. this sentence is exact same sentence which was told to columbus and other seafaring pioneers by hordes of people in genoa and neighboring italian cities.

just 1000 years ago, this civilization didnt have the resources to go to the moon. or anything comparable.

just 100 years ago, the transportation vehicles we use were so crude and ineffective that today's travel would be unimaginable.

its about technology, not about resources.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[zobier]

pics or it didn't happen

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[scooter.higher]

No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it.

Maybe these aliens are cheating on their spouses and due to the technology available to their wives, they have to go farther than into another area code.

Men will do amazing things for sex. Maybe alien men will too.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[elrous0]

I didn't "jump" at anything. No one ever told me that those UFO sightings were secret spy aircraft. It's just the blatantly obvious conclusion.

Here is what we know:

• Strange unidentified craft (UFO's) seen near U.S. airbases, mostly at night
• Secret testing of spyplanes, spy ballons, and prototype stealth aircraft by the air force in the late 40's, 50's, and 60's
• The height of Cold War secrecy and paranoia
• Air force and other government officials telling UFO witnesses to keep their damn mouths shut about what they saw

Now, the reasonable person looks at that evidence and says "Oh well, these UFO's were obviously test aircraft and spy-planes that the government was trying to keep secret." The nutball (i.e., you), conversely, looks at it and says "Obviously these are the craft of alien species who have traveled across the vast distances of interstellar space, just to do the extraterrestrial equivalent of a drive-by, coincidentally near U.S. airbases at the height of the Cold War."

In other words, you're not privy to special insight. You haven't pierced some veil of government secrecy. You're just a paranoid nutball who can't see the blatantly obvious conclusion. Like Fox Mulder, you WANT to believe--and so you do, irrespective of the obvious conclusion staring you right in the face.

as for the comparison to Columbus, you are just showing your profound ignorance on that one. You obviously have absolutely no clue on how vast the distances are between even nearby solar systems. What Columbus did was propose sailing 2 or 3 times farther than anyone had ever sailed before. That is several orders of magnitude beneath what it would take an intelligent species to journey between solar systems.

Let me put it this way, the fastest craft humans have ever launched was Voyager 1 (now traveling at 38,600 mph). Voyager would have taken over 9 years to reach Pluto at max speed. Pluto is about 8.3 light minutes away from earth. That was the fastest human craft ever created, and it took a huge expenditure of energy and resources for even that tiny craft to be launched and accelerated to that speed. And at Voyager's rate of speed, if it were traveling to the NEAREST solar system to earth (Proxima Centauri, a mere 4.2 light years away), it would take it about 2.4 *MILLION* years to reach it.

Starting to get an idea of the scale we're talking about here? This isn't just crossing an ocean. And any species that could figure out how to send large craft across those kind of distances in any reasonable time wouldn't give a rat's ass about our pathetic, primitive little species. We'd be no more than ants to them.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[unity100]

* Strange unidentified craft (UFO's) seen near U.S. airbases, mostly at night * Secret testing of spyplanes, spy ballons, and prototype stealth aircraft by the air force in the late 40's, 50's, and 60's * The height of Cold War secrecy and paranoia * Air force and other government officials telling UFO witnesses to keep their damn mouths shut about what they saw no. it is what you know.

there are a lot of unidentified craft action cases over white house in years 1945-47. do a search for it around the net, youll find satisfying documents. 1945-1947 were the days they were trying to break sound barrier, leave aside producing insta-turn capability in high speed vehicles that could run away easily when aircraft moved to intercept them over white house.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[elrous0]

I'm not aurging anymore with you, nutball. Arguing with a true believer is pointless.

Re:Take off the tinfoil hat

[azzuth]

No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it.

To assume that they would have to expend mammoth amounts of resources to travel here is a bit speculative. We have a very limited understanding of physics. To make assumptions on the technological limitations of an advanced race supposedly capable of reaching Earth is just naive. It is indeed very possible that a sufficiently advanced race could travel any distance without relativistic effects. Itâ(TM)s also possible that they could easily avoid detection by our technologically infantile civilization.

It is really easy to call all UFO believers nuts and crazies, and to be fair to you, there are many who are indeed crazy or just desperately seeking attention. They and you prevent any intelligent discussion on the topic, them by making their claims completely insane, and you by dismissing any and all claims because some claims are insane.

There is obviously enough merit to some of the claims that the governments of the world would classify them and hide them away, so is it not worth an intelligent discussion by the public? I for one would love for there to be other intelligent life visiting our planet, but unless we are willing to discuss it, even without much decent evidence, our civilization may never be privy to any (if there is any) actual tangible proof.

It is worth examining the reasoning any government would have to hide any and all solid evidence on ETs. For one, barring the recent catholic acceptance (coincidence?) most world wide religions would be unwilling to accept the existence of aliens. It would cause religions to collapse. If solid evidence were provided people would have to come to terms with the possibility that there may be nothing to look forward to after this life. I for one donâ(TM)t believe that the two are mutually exclusive, but in the religious context many would be displaced spiritually. We donâ(TM)t trust other humans of a different skin color, let alone a creature who may share very few physical similarities with our species. If I were an alien I would not show myself until the public had been appropriately prepared. So for no other reason than self preservation the aliens themselves may not ALLOW our governments to release large chunks of information.

Flying Saucers as a Jungian archetype ..

[rs232]

"If the round shining objects that appear in the sky be regarded as visions, we can hardly avoid interpreting them as archetypal images"

Re:But all the good stuff is blacked out so what i

[geekoid]

Yes they know the truth..and then put it in a document. Now that document has been put online to read.

Really, the truth has no obligation to be what you want it to be.

You forgot 28

[geekoid]

28) And the wheel within the wheel would spin counter to the wheel, and it's bling was awesome.

I believed when I was young

[Joe the Lesser]

When I was young I thought I had seen a UFO in our backyard. I was utterly convinced. I started to do research on it and couldn't understand why so many things (lochness monster, bigfoot) were not better explained and explored when man seemed to understand so many other things (elements of nature, physics, genetics). I though I was on to something big.

As I matured it began to dawn on me. My experience, had it been real, would have been reported by somebody else. The memory was from my childhood, it could have been a dream before I understood the difference.

The more I tried to relive the memory, the more an unnerving recognition hit me. Shit, I had seen the spaceship from ET in my backyard! It had been a dream created by my overactive imagination.

I had wanted it to be true I swore that it was, because the memory backed me up, but my own memory betrayed me.

Looking back I see that misconceptions are common human fallicies, and that is why scientific data, which is checked and doubled checked by many people is so critical in the search for truth.

Re:I believed when I was young

[justadave]

If only you had Reese's Pieces!

Re:I believed when I was young

[snuf23]

What you fail to understand is the Spielberg is in cahoots with the aliens. At the time they wished to conduct anal probing experiments on young children of the human species. E.T. was created using authentic alien spacecraft images. When children saw these craft coming for them in the middle of the night their parents dismissed it as the result of overactive imaginations and viewing E.T.

Re:I believed when I was young

[Tranzistors]

It seems that man is a rational animal, and social one too.
If no one else has seen seen it and there is no rational explanation, then it did not happen. But then I guess it doesn't matter, because man is practical as well - why believe something (even your own eyes), if that doesn't change anything.
In lessons about cognition I heard that objective information is something, that is shareable with others (what others can experience), subjective can only be personal experience. Given your vision of UFO and lack of objectivity (only you saw it) and lack of reasoning (evidence), you discard it as false, even though it can be true.

Re:I believed when I was young

[Anonymous Coward]

That's nothing. When I was a kid, ET sent me a letter and a stick of gum. Strange, though. How did he know I would be at my grandparents that night and why was there only a name, no address, on the envelope?

Re:I believed when I was young

[schlumpf_louise]

I'm telling you... I have seen santa clause! Really! I have a perfect memory from when I was a child of looking out the window in the back upstairs bedroom in my Gran's house, pushing the net curtains back I saw Santa fly through the sky (including reindeer!).

Of course I'm now 24 and I know there isn't a Santa (sorry to any children who may have accidentally just read that) but that is a very clear memory of mine... It's amazing that your mind can tell you that something is real - because you have seen it - even though it's impossible and insane.

How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exist?

[elrous0]

I also don't have any evidence of the nonexistance of the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot, fire-breathing dragons, and magical unicorns. Does that make them plausible too?

I Used to Get UFO Calls From the Public

[aquatone282]

Way back in a previous life, when I was a USAF Recruiter working out of the Reno, Nevada office on Moana Lane, I would occasionally get a UFO report from an excited member of the public. The recruiting office was the only number listed under U.S. Air Force in the Reno phone book because the nearest Air Force base was located across the Sierra Nevada mountains in Sacramento, California.

At first, I tried to explain that the local Air Force recruiting office wasn't the right place to report a UFO sighting, but then I realized what a gift these calls were.

From then on, whenever a UFO report came in, I got as excited as the caller, asking them for details, etc. Then I explained I wasn't the correct office to report UFOs to and then gave them the number to the Nevada Air National Guard's base operations office.

And I always told the caller to not take "no" as answer from whoever answered the phone.

Re:I Used to Get UFO Calls From the Public

[Xaroth]

That was you?! YOU BASTARD!

Kidding, kidding...

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[Llywelyn]

Yes, just remotely in some cases.

The first stage starts...

[stoofa]

1. Slowly release 'evidence' of 'alien threat.'
2. Public accept more security from government.
3. ?????
4. Profit

Of course, you can always put these lists the other way round, but then you have to begin with 'Prophet.'

Yeah, but what about...

[AphexT]

the fact that the humans are the 5th cylon and alien in their nature ?

A Few Examples...

[tobiah]

Gulf of Tonkin
Augusto Pinochet coup of Chile
Iran-Contra
Tuskegee Experiments

These are all well documented Successful conspiracies/deceptions conducted by US government agencies. Many more could be listed, and it's safe to assume there are undiscovered ones.

On the other hand, the possibility that alien anal research scientists consider our species worth so much time is both far-fetched and upsetting.

Re:A Few Examples...

[oodaloop]

Those would be the unsuccessful ones, since you know about them. Successful conspiracies, by definition, are unknowable.

Re:A Few Examples...

[tobiah]

I mean successful in the sense that they succeeded in their objectives, knowledge of the deception didn't come out until well after the act, and the players largely got away with it. When I conspire successfully those are my intended results. Being able to gloat openly years later is just icing on the cake.

Re:A Few Examples...

[oodaloop]

Not going to jail would rank pretty high in my list if I were to engage in a conspiracy, and anyone finding out about said conspiracy would compromise that. I doubt anyone sitting in a Congressional hearing would consider their conspiracy a success.

Re:A Few Examples...

[grahamd0]

Successful conspiracies, by definition, are unknowable.

That's totally untrue. Unless secrecy is your success condition, once a conspiracy has succeeded, there's often no need to maintain secrecy any longer.

An obvious example that's happened many times in history would be a conspiracy to overthrow a ruler and replace him with one of the conspirators. It would be a pretty silly thing to do if no one knew you did it. And once your new ruler is place, why be secretive? You're no longer a shadowy conspirator, you're a hero.

I had one

[aepervius]

I am quite a skeptic and level headed (or at least I fool myself into thinking that), but going through one helped me see the "light" : namely that going through such an experience unprepared/unhelped by my skepticism, I would probably be raving on ghost in woo-land by now. I mean from the moment it started and the end, my blood was probably awash with adrenaline, and I had a terrible fear. Of what I can't tell. Now when people relate their abduction experience, I can at least understand why they fight so hard they "lived" it, why they really think something terrible happened to them. Still as far as evidence goes, there are no alien craft coming visiting us, no alien probing your anus, no crop circle created by anything but human.

Re:I had one

[azav]

You had one what?

More info please.

Re:I had one

[Jerry Beasters]

When I was younger I had a couple of these, and I could absolutely see how people could interpret it as aliens/ghosts. It's such a feeling of overwhelming terror and/or dread with sometimes dreamlike "hallucinations," if that's the right word.

Re:I had one

[geekoid]

Are you talking about ASP?

I experience that when I sleep under an electric blanket.
You don't get used to it, and it is really freaky.

I did get to the point where I could breath load and sometimes that wakes my wife, who shakes me so my body come awake.

Once I realized my episodes were all linked to have the electric blanket on, it mostly went away..mostly.

Re:I had one

[MBGMorden]

I experience that when I sleep under an electric blanket.
You don't get used to it, and it is really freaky. Actually I've gotten pretty used to it. I don't have visual hallucinations anymore (last one was about 5 years ago in college). Just wake up and can't move. I think to myself "Don't let your mind wander." (since if you think crazy things, you're dreaming, and you can see them). I then just attempt to rock back and forth until I break out of it and can move (which is usually 20-30 seconds later).

I get them pretty often though. Normally once every 2-3 weeks, for as long as I can remember. What really helped me was learning the medical explanation. Once I knew that no ghosts or zombies were actually coming into my room to terrorize me, I was able to handle it much better.

Re:I had one

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, it was scary as hell to me too before I knew what is was.
And although I have been able to dream what I want, it seems that the dreams are more real if you have some real life expience.

I once wanted to dream that I could fly and it seemed to work although afterwards when reflecting about it, it seemed to be the feeling of jumping in a trampoline as takeoff and then being able to sustain the point just before going down again. I think if I have tried jumping from a plane with a parachute I might have had a better flying dream.

But I can see if I can get myself to dream that, then you can really get into some scary shit.

Re:I had one

[Ryuu Kasai]

The current theory is that sleep paralysis occurs to keep people from actually acting out what occurs during dreams in REM sleep. That way when you dream of being a mighty hunter in primitive times, you don't end up being injured menacing the local wildlife.

Re:I had one

[arse maker]

Its a case where you know their aren't lying but they simply don't remember the truth. I think one thing that puts it in perspective with abductions is that everyone has almost the same experience and it only happened since stories of aliens spread. If it had been happening exactly the same since 1200 AD then you could perhaps look at it more, but its clearly some human phenomena that is shaped by a modern social context

Wrong stance

[aepervius]

That they would be more advanced technically than us on some stuff (space travel) has no bearing on whether they are more or less advanced than us socially, on other part of science, or even have any moral beyond "eat or be eaten". Your comparison with monkey also don't really hold, I doubt monkey have the awarness and analyze power of a human seeing its culture invaded or observed. Think of culture shock, like aborigene being visited by western civilization. or something.

You have a point.

[jd]

Now, I don't expect any government to open up every door, that's just not going to happen. On the other hand, they're perfectly well aware that security through obscurity doesn't work, that any country likely to pose a serious threat has probably infiltrated every department of note, and that the only people they can reliably withhold information from are their own citizens. Let's take these files now released to the British public, for example. I can't quite see how any of these could remotely be classified as vital to national security, although I could see a plausible argument that if the government were seen to take UFOs seriously, it might unsettle the natives.

What about rogue nations? Well, I don't seriously expect to find too many rogue nations building UFOs based on some suggestions submitted to the government on how to build a spacecraft. On the other hand, there have been cases where forged documents have been found in the British National Archives - most recently dealing with Churchill. There is at least evidence of an exploitable attack vector in that case, even though it would not appear that such an exploit could be made to do anything useful.

But, yes, ultimately if the populace contains a great many paranoid, suspicious, conspiracy-theorizing individuals, it is because the governments of the world have done everything in their power to foster suspicion as to their activities. I like the House of Lords response to the theorists, which thanks them rather nicely for giving the government credit for being capable of agreement on any scale, although it then denies that this could be true. Nonetheless, there have been efforts to suppress information that would otherwise have been released - in the US, this would include content from President Reagan's diaries - and in the absence of any other information, people will naturally assume the worst.

ASP

[Myrddin Wyllt]

"ASP, or Awareness during Sleep Paralysis" - It all makes sense now; that mind-numbing fear, the horrifying images, a total inability to do anything about it other than surrender to the sheer horror of it all.

I always thought it stood for "Active Server Pages", silly me.

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[Jerry Beasters]

No, because in the study of logic you learn that you CAN in fact prove a negative, despite what internet cliches lead you to believe.

Alright I'll bite ...

[Anonymous Coward]

How's this for real evidence ...

During the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles the military instituted a mandatory black out of the entire city & fired 1400+ Anti-Aircraft rounds at a single, quoting the military, "unidentified aircraft." This lasted for more than an hour. Despite numerous confirmed hits the craft remained airborne and eventually flew off without ever being identified. (read the LA times article).

In 1948 green fireballs were seen over the south-western skies of the US near nuclear weapons research sites. Famous meteoriticist Dr. Lincoln La Paz declared they weren't normal meteors. In 1949 the USAF started Project Twinkle under the direction of Dr. Anythony Mirachi.

The study concluded in a now unclassified report that cinetheodolites had tracked 4 objects traveling at an "altitude of ~150K ft" (~28.5 miles!), were "30 ft. in diameter", & traveling at an "undeterminable, yet high speed." Mirachi went on to later criticize a Time magazine article that claimed there was no proof to support the existence of UFOs.

Mirachi wrote, "There was too much evidence in favor of saucers to say they could have all been balloons. 'I was conducting the main investigation. The government had to depend on me or my branch for information.' He said he didn't see how the Navy could say there had been no concrete evidence of the phenomena."

Also in the year 1948 Dr. J. Allen Hynek, a self-proclaimed skeptic, joined Project Blue Book as a scientific advisor. By 1969 when Blue Book was shutdown Hynek did an about face. He wrote several books, particularly, "The Hynek UFO Report" which repeatedly stated that the attitude of Blue Book was, "it can't be therefore it isn't."

He also gave an interview, available on youtube watch?v=pyDVR2B14dw, where he said, "I was there at Blue Book and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, don't rock the boat, & I saw it [with] my own eyes. ... The cases that were very difficult to explain they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from that." He later went on to found the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS).

On July 13-29th, 1952, over the skies of Washington DC, numerous UFOs were seen on the ground, in the air, & tracked on radar. The situation escalated & General Samford, Director of Intelligence of the USAF, held an emergency press conference. When asked by a reporters what people were seeing he suggested the lights on the ground may have looked like they were in the air because inversions act like an "air lens" & bend light rays. He added that something similar could have "tricked" radar in to thinking it was tracking aerial targets.

In 1969 an Air Force scientific report titled "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages" (Menkello, F.G. Report No. 6112, USAF, Environmental Technical Applications Center) made it clear inversion strong enough to create the visual effect described during the 1952 press-conference could not exist in earth's atmosphere.

1956 at Bentwater/Lakenheath an object was sighted by several military officers on the ground while simultaneously tracked on radar at 2 different stations. The object moved at ~4000 mph and was monitored for several hours during which two planes were scrambled.

When the 1st DeHavilland Venom locked on to the object it shot to the rear of the plane. The pilot tried evasive maneuvers, couldn't break free & eventually had to return to base to refuel.

The 2nd plane encountered mechanical difficulties as it flew within range of the object. The US sponsored Condon Report had this to say, "In conclusion, although conventional or natural explanations certainly cannot be ruled out, the probability of such seems low in this case and the probability that at least one genuine UFO was involved appears fairly high."

Astronaut Gordon Cooper claimed he saw his 1st UFO while flying over W. Germany in 1952. During 1957 while filming at Edwards AFB base he stated he saw a UFO land in the CA flats and that t

Re:Alright I'll bite ...

[threc]

This is pretty interesting stuff ... mod parent up!

Re:Alright I'll bite ...

[smaddox]

in recent years we're seeing numerous instances of people who have worked in high-ranking positions in the government who are whistle-blowing (FAA Chief Callahan, Astronaut Cooper, Blue Book Dir. Ruppelt, Astronaut Aldrin, Blue Book Scientific adviser Hynek, Lt. Col. Daniel Mcgovern, Gov. Fife Symington, etc) & they're being ignored even though many of them have publicly stated they're willing to testify under oath before congress. Did any of these people NOT believe in UFOs before the incedent?

If they believed in them before, they are much more likely to misinterpret an easily explainable phenomenon as a UFO sighting.

Re:Alright I'll bite ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fife Symington was the governor of Arizona during the 1997 Phoenix Lights incident. Here's what he had to say to his constituents after it was done and over ...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2650302786264125110&q=Fife+Symington&ei=gVYrSMDCGIumqgOyxryoCQ&hl=en#1m39s

Go to 1m 39s to watch his 1997 speech ridiculing / laughing off the incident.

Blue Book scientific adviser J. Allen Hynek was the epitome of hardened skeptic. He's the man who came up with the idea of using "swamp gas" to explain away UFO sightings.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8561085526614222645&q=hynek&ei=eVkrSJ6LHaTAqwPA16mkCQ

As for FAA Chief John Callahan ... I don't think it's possible to misinterpret being sworn to secrecy by the CIA.

Re:Alright I'll bite ...

[Anonymous Coward]

[citation needed]

Re:Alright I'll bite ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have over several thousand citations. I doubt you want them all. Which part do you want cited?

'Shrooms dude

[Anonymous Coward]

So he ate a bunch of magic mushrooms. Big deal. This happens every day down on campus.

Original Documentary

[Mr. No Skills]

And the original video footage, from 1970. http://ufoseries.com/

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[smaddox]

Are you trying to say unicorns don't exist?!?!

Have you never heard of a narwhal? What did you think happened when a narwhal and a horse mate?!?!

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[Al Al Cool J]

You generally can't prove that something doesn't exist. However, if plausible scientific theory predicts that something may well exist, then scientists can conduct experiments to try and detect it. If they fail to detect it, then they can establish upper bounds on its probability or frequency of occurence.

Two examples are proton decay and magnetic monopoles which are predicted by various Grand Unified Theories. Scientists have spent decades conducting carefully run (and often expensive) experiments trying to find evidence of these things, and have found none. That doesn't prove they don't exists, but does demonstrate that if they do exist then they are very rare or difficult to detect.

Given the age of the universe, the frequency of planets, etc, plausible scientific theory predicts that the probability of alien visitation to Earth could be very high (see Fermi Paradox). Despite this though, I am aware of no legitimate scientific attempts to find evidence of visitation. That has been left to non-scientists. So it is hardly surprising that there is no credible scientific evidence of alien visitation when there have been no credible scientific efforts to find any. Consequently, the upper bounds on the possibilty of alien visitation is in the neighborhood of 100%.

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[auld_wyrm]

Are you trying to say unicorns don't exist?!?! Have you never heard of a narwhal? What did you think happened when a narwhal and a horse mate?!?! Umm, at lease one perforated colon?

rather a nut

[unity100]

than a modern bigot who are not open to possibilities, just like the churchmen of inquisition.

Re:rather a nut

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not him, but:

Besides the US gov't's obvious desire to keep their military secrets quiet, they were also trying to keep a national panic under control. You have to understand the basics of group psychology:

1) People are stupid. They will believe ANYTHING and are, for the most part, incapable of critical and rational thought.

2) People are bored. They are willing to suspend what little disbelief they do have for entertainment. Any change in their depressing day to day lives is welcome.

By the mid-50s, the entire country was freaking out about alien abductions. There were even some violent protests demanding that the gov't fess up and come clean. Other examples of this kind of behavior are McCarthyism a bit before and the Salem witch trials.

The reason some people were urged to shut the hell up is exactly because of people like you. Your behavior is NO different than that of the witch hunts of the 17th century and it was really getting out of control.

Anyway, the reason mainstream news media is now airing "UFO" footage and wasting time with "experts" is because mainstream media, even CNN, is more about entertainment than actual news. Have you SEEN the news lately? It is quite simply revolting.

But the fact that national governments are releasing UFO-related files is NOTHING new. It's been going on since before Roswell. And none have described anything of extraterrestrial origin, so I don't see what pattern you're talking about.

And I mean honestly, how can you take this shit seriously? There are tens of thousands of reported abductions, let alone sightings. And yet not one shred of evidence? Really? Not ONE picture or video that can't easily be shown to be fabricated? Come on.

Even if you admit that all but a handful of incidents are just stupid people unable to differentiate reality from hypnosis (I hope you know what I'm talking about, here) or attention whores looking to turn a quick buck, where's your evidence for the real ones? Do you think crop circles are real too?

To wrap up what has become an aimless rant:
I'm open to possibilities. Very open. I would LOVE for there to be extraterrestrial life visiting Earth, I've been intrigued by the possibility since I was a kid. However, there's a difference between being open to possibilities and jumping to conclusions. Right now there is NO reason to believe in aliens, but there ARE plenty of reasons to think that the whole issue is just overzealous wishful thinking and group paranoia gone out of control. Just because I don't believe you when you say you were abducted by little green men, doesn't make me a bigot. Especially if you've got no proof of the incident and only remembered it even happened after a few sessions with a crackpot hypnotist and I actually remember I was with you that night and you were passed out on the couch until morning after taking some little green pills.

Re:rather a nut

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on now people, throw the man a mod point. Even if it is just so others can see this.

Re:rather a nut

[unity100]

im amazed that you have been able to somehow accuse me of being a medieval witch hunter mccarthyist.

In the case of Britain

[Anonymous Coward]

there's a tantalizing possibility: What if the UFOs' exhaust rots teeth? Would that be proof enough?

Wait, hang on... Horsell?

[meringuoid]

At quarter past midnight on Christmas Day 1985, three police officers in Woking were surprised by a white light descending on the Horsell area.

An alien encounter in Horsell near Woking? The chances of anything like that happening must be a million to one...

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, people believe in god.
*ducks*

Nick Pope worked for them and wrote a book

[Duracelll]

Bit late to the topic.

Nick Pope previously worked for the British Ministry of Defence and it was his specific role to document and investiate UFOs for the government for 3 years. He wrote a book on the things he investigated, which I read when it first came out. I suspect a some of the documents that are being released will have been from his investigations and topics from the book.

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[elrous0]

Then prove to me that magical unicorns don't exist. Show me your proof, sir!

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[elrous0]

The Fermi Paradox is a joke. Any attempt to predict the existence of life in the universe is absolutely meaningless without knowledge of how life even BEGINS, or how common the processes are which lead to it. There could be quadrillions of planets out there with life, or there could just as easily be 0. Until we get some idea of how life even began HERE, we will likely have no clue how common it could be out THERE. Short of finding native life on other bodies within this solar system or coming to a thorough understanding of how it began on earth, there is simply no way to really know how common life (as we know it) is in the universe.

Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis

[Al Al Cool J]

If we knew the answers ahead of time, we wouldnt need to do science. The idea of science is that you come up with plausible theories of how things might be, and test the predictions made by those theories. The Fermi Paradox says that given plausible assumptions about the frequency of life and other factors (theory), galaxy-spanning civilisations should be out there (prediction). What is missing is the testing. And SETI isnt it, because SETI is only looking for "Hello World" beacons from non-galaxy-spanning ETIs. If you span the galaxy, you don't need no stinking beacons.

Possibilities

[azzuth]

The way that i see it, there are two viable options for why all of these governments are releasing their UFO documents (very very selective small parts no doubt). France, the UK, Mexico... now we just need the US and Canada to do the same. And i bet they will soon.

Two possible scenarios assuming that UFOs are real and possibly ET related:
Scenario 1. They (the gov) are laying a trail of misinformation to make the public happy and keep us completely in the dark as to how much involvement they have had with UFOs (development of the tech ourselves or contact with ETs.) I personally think this is most likely. Give us something to let us believe they don't really know what's going on all the while they have secret deal or super high tech hidden from us in the background. Just one more step in the wrong direction so it will be that much more unbelievable or dismissed.

Scenario 2. They are preparing to eventually reveal the whole thing to us for one of several possible reasons.

Reason 1: Similar to how the asguard made Stargate Command reveal the Stargate program to the major countries on our planet, the government is being forced to at least start the process of informing the public so as to continue contact (or prevent hostilities) with the alien race(s) that we are in contact with. If we are in contact with ETs (and I'd be will to bet we are) at some point we will want more than they are willing to give us. If it is technology it is likely that they will believe that we need to improve as a species before they can give us any more advanced tech that could lead to new weapons etc.

If they are friendly we are probably being forced to reveal the information in exchange for something. They would most likely want to see us be able to responsibly use whatever they give us, and we can only truly mature on a large scale, otherwise anyone coming into the program from future generations would still have been raised with the mentality of the outside world. This best matches the slow rate we are getting the information. I would imagine they would have had to show that they are making an attempt to eventually reveal the truth to us when we are prepared for it. And I am sure the ETs would know that we would have to gradually be introduced to the info to prevent shock and panic. This, I think, is the most likely of Scenario 2 reasons.

If they are hostile then we are are most likely giving out the information in an attempt to prepare ourselves for some sort of hostile action and to defend it and not be completely "caught in the headlights" we would need to have more global acceptance of the possibility of alien invasion etc. this less likely than them being friendly in my opinion. If they were hostile we would have less time to prepare, as the rate at which we are getting the info is too slow. Not to mention we would probably have known it by now, i.e. have been attacked already.

Reason 2: They are being limited in their ability to expand technology by withholding knowledge from the public sector. There are just not enough scientists employed by the government that could be "in the know" to reverse engineer/ actually understand sufficiently advanced technology. This reason could be motivated by a need to increase our defensive capacity versus one or more of the races. Or just because they are overwhelmed with new info and can't get through it all at a rate in which the powers that be would like.

Reason 3: This one is a little more out there.. The Mayans believed that Dec 21 2012 would be the return of Quetzacotal, perhaps this Quetzacotal is not a person, but a race of aliens.. and maybe it WILL happen in 2012 and there is no choice but to start giving us information so that when it happens we will either be ready or at least not in world wide disarray. I'm not sure that this is that viable of an option, as there are only 4 years till then.. They rate at which we are being giving this information will need to speed up significantly for this theory to be true.

Haloperidol

[Anonymous Coward]

You can then get some sleep.

thank you

[unity100]

spanish inquisitioner. i would rather not argue with a churchman with a scientific skepticism flavor.

You were conditioned.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mass media mind programming has conditioned most of you to laugh at the things you don't understand, to totally dismiss even the idea. There are millions of reported UFO sightings. Many respectable ex-government and military personnel have come forward on radio shows and in the disclosure project. Too many to just laugh it all off and call them all crazy.